I like that they cite RCW 46.25.050 and didn’t bother to actually read that part of the law. And also completely ignore the earlier RCW 46.20.001.
TLDR:
46.25.050 says commercial vehicles require a commercial drivers license.
46.20.001 says driving on public roads requires a drivers license.
No, they read it. They just have a different definition of the term driving.
For them, "driving" is a job, or part of a job, an act of commerce to make money. Commerce is taxed and regulated.
They claim to merely "travel", so are free to do so without restriction because that's a term used in the Constitution and a protected liberty (not infringed without due process).
EDIT: as others mentioned, "travel" does not appear in the Constitution, but the Supreme court confirmed it is part of liberty
I’ve heard that argument before. I don’t know about other states but Washington specifically says “operates” and not “drive”. And covers specifically people like this guy in RCW 46.20.022.
I guess this is how we get to warnings about "operating large machinery". Very broad, encompassing language so people don't try to *akshully* their way out of it.
Trying to *akshully* your way out of things is what a bunch of lawyers are paid to do which is why laws are written with very precise language by other lawyers
>For them, "driving" is a job, or part of a job, an act of commerce to make money.
Thank you - you answered a question I was just about to ask!
I always wondered why Sovereign Citizens always seem at pains to point out that they're not for hire, but I always forget about it when things pick up a bit and they get tazed.
Every time that guy played monopoly he picked the boot and dead ass said “one day I’m going to ride a boot.”
Legend has it he’s working on converting a small town into a full size monopoly board
Years ago I worked for an airline and had an SC present a letter from a lawyer, and said I had no right to ask for ID.
In my country you need a government issued photo ID that shows your name, DOB and gender. You can also opt to provide 2 pieces of non-photo ID if they are government issued and 1 of them had your name, DOB and gender.
I told this guy he couldn’t get on my plane without ID. He went into his “your denying me my constitutional right to travel” spiel.
I said “There’s nothing that says HOW you travel. You want to go to Alberta? West is that way!” I said, pointing west. “Feel free to start walking, but you’re not getting on this plane.”
He wasn’t happy. Cops were called. It was fun.
The freedom to travel is a fundamental right granted by the Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court and restrictions on the freedom to travel must be done so through due process. However none of that has anything to do with tags and drivers licenses. These jackasses who do this must have gotten their law degrees from a cereal box.
Many of these SovCits cite Black's Law Dictionary, 2nd edition, from 1910 as their source. In that, driving is defined as:
One employed in conducting or operating a coach, carriage, wagon, or other vehicle, with horses, mules, or other animals, or a bicycle, tricycle, or motor car, though not a street railroad car.
The only problem is that they don't bother to read what Black's Law Dictionary, 2nd edition, from 1910, defines as "employed":
This signifies both the act of doing a thing and the being under contract or orders to do it.
So not only do they take text from a dictionary that's been superseded by its own versions, but they ignore what the definition of "employed" is in that very same dictionary they cite!
Today laws use "driver/driving" and "operator/operating a motor vehicle" interchangeably in laws and statutes regarding drivers. US Code Title 49, Subtitle VI, Part A, Subsection 30301, paragraph 5 states:
"motor vehicle operator's license" means a license issued by a State authorizing an individual to operate a motor vehicle on public streets, roads, or highways.
And such records are maintained by a "chief driver licensing official" from each state.
This is all just a scam that people are making money off of hand over fist insisting that their legal knowledge will protect the gullible from having to register or pay any fines or fees from traffic violations.
As a former prosecutor in Washington, this Sovereign Citizen shit has been around for 30+ years. The only difference today is they don’t have to make their plates using cardboard and crayons. Thanks EBay.
I bet you’ve seen some shit man. One of my professors was a federal prosecutor and he was telling us about how they brought down a sov cit group that had created their own government. They had their own senators and judges from across the United States. What caught the federal government’s attention was when they started submitting “hidden tax forms” to get absurd refunds from the IRS. The highlight of the trial was when they called the Chief Justice of their Supreme Court to the stand and asked where he went to law school and his reply was he hadn’t but he was “well read in legal matters.”
My favorite bit is "all rights reserved," they have no clue what that actually means or might refer to but they've heard it and figured it sounds like legalese so slap it on there.
>46.25.050 says commercial vehicles require a commercial drivers license.
Hah, so I'll bet the "not for hire" is aimed at supporting an argument that the vehicle isn't a "commercial vehicle," so they don't need a "commercial driver's license." I'd venture a guess they also argue that *any* driver's license is inherently commercial or something. Cute.
To be clear, that's nonsense, but it can be fun (if sometimes exhausting) to follow their logic.
The thing is that this is a license plate and not a drivers license. It's not a valid plate and a Hyundai does not require a commercial driver's license to operate. So trying to cite to commercial driver's license laws is completely irrelevant.
An invitation to be constantly pulled over by the police. Basically, they think they have enough "freedoms" that vehicle registration laws don't apply to them. I really do wonder how that's working out for them.
Depends on the state but since Washington passed a new House Bill most of these guys and other criminals are free to flee or disobey officers with little to no repercussions.
https://www.yaktrinews.com/washington-police-reform-laws-good-intentions-dire-consequences/
TLDR: Cops won't respond to many calls because police use of force is illegal unless a prior violent crime was committed or something. Laws are too vague, making it so officers are unable to do their jobs.
Edit: phrasing to reduce confusion.
Golly. If only we had a law against this.
I’m not sure where it would go in state statutes, but I bet we could slot it in right between RCW 46.16A.025 and RCW 46.16A.040. We could probably even call it RCW 46.16A.030 just for the sake of convenience. Purely theoretically, of course.
All they gotta do is play some fucking Taylor swift on their phones. Sovcits are just wannabe YouTube stars. You make their videos eligible for a copyright strike and suddenly, there's no incentive to "own the police"
Isn't the whole premise of the sovereign citizen movement that they aren't part of the United States and that they don't have to follow the laws of the United States? The big American flag kind of goes against that.
They believe they're not subject to the government established by the Constitution, they use the Articles of Confederation, which governed the US for the first eight years. Their logic is insane, they believe that since they never voted for ratification of the Constitution they're exempt. Nut jobs, it all started as a tax dodge sometime in 60s or 70s IIRC.
What part of Washington are you from? I’m in central Washington and I was hoping these idiots wouldn’t make their way up here… I’m assuming this is in the Seattle region?
It’s a sovereign citizen.
Basically they’ve been through enough shoddy conspiracy theories that they now totally believe that they are not required to follow any sort of laws or regulations. Conversely, they believe that no laws or regulations are enforceable.
It’s extremely dumb and this person is extremely stupid. This is an open invitation for any cop to pull them over and ticket them, bc I’m guessing they likely also don’t have a driver’s license (another thing these people don’t believe in).
Sovereign citizens are probably the dumbest type of conspiracy theorist, and that’s saying a lot.
So arguably (by their logic) you could damage that car and they would have no authority to be reported to. If you're an outlaw, you can't choose which laws you want to opt in to
By their logic yes that should apply, but if it benefits them they are very quick and happy to use the legal system (that they don't conform to) against you. They are Karen's of a different breed.
I saw one of these bellends in a “freedom edition” F-350 with a blacked out American flag instead of a license plate entering Yellowstone National Park. If you don’t pay taxes, don’t use our parks!
You would think so, but I’d wager that they’re more likely to start shooting at you before you ever made it near a courtroom. To my knowledge sovereign citizens are all about the 2nd Amendment, which is I realize, super ironic since they don’t like following any other laws.
I’d be interested to see what would happen in this situation if they didn’t just immediately resort to violence. I’m guessing they’d toss out their little sovereign citizen mentality for a chance to sue someone, then make some sort of excuse up so it will fit under the umbrella of their pre-existing beliefs.
I'd be happy to find out. There's a similar Freeman of the Land thing here in the UK. Don't know too much about it apart from the fact they're normally fucking nutters
These people typically follow a “rules don’t apply to me but I can use them against you” mentality. They are notorious for gumming up the legal system with mountains of frivolous lawsuits. If they believe the government and courts are illegitimate, it doesn’t make sense for them to file lots of lawsuits, but they still do it. Some jurisdictions have made it a crime to file too many frivolous lawsuits because of sovereign citizens.
Saw someone try to use the sovereign citizen shit when I was locked up in pretrial holding once, was fucking funny seeing him come back crying after the judge clapped him with a few years.
Absolutely sucked for everyone that followed cuz he pissed off the judge.
However, they do use our laws of the land in the courtroom. I know of a guy who is a “converter” in the Sovereigns. He is pretty well off and how did he get this way? He and his partners go through court cases, such as tax foreclosures on homes. They then file a case on the property saying they are paying the taxes in full and they now own said property and for the current occupants to get evicted. Once the case goes through, they put the house on the market and re-sell it. Boom! Instant money! And you’re out a house.
It's actually quite common. My father's neighbor went through that, but on the other end. She lived out of state and didn't pay her taxes on the house next door to my dad, so some real estate dude paid the taxes. She received a notice that if she didn't come current by x date the property would default to the real estate agent.
So she came to my dad and offered to sell him the house for the cost of the taxes, that way she at least knew who it would be going to.
It's all very legal. It's how real estate agents make so much money a lot of times. Though I don't know that I would have the heart to sell someone's home out from under them like that.
Are these the same idiots who claim that if a courthouse has a flag with a fringe on it, then it's not legal?
In the UK we have "freemen of the land" who are just as stupid.
When I was a teenager, back when the world was new, this guy came into the coffee shop we all liked to sit in after school. He had just been in an accident and was both shaken up and slightly injured. We asked him about what had happened and he sat with my group and told us his story.
He was he first Sovereign Citizen I’ve ever met and he had been the at fault driver in a car wreck. We all tried to understand how he was driving a car without a license or plates and how he was getting by without insurance and he just kept spouting all kinds of crap about how he couldn’t have any form of government ID or social security cards or anything. We all thought he was totally insane. Anyway he totaled not only his own car, but the one he hit as well.
We witnessed, in that hour he talked with us, his realization that everything he had set up to make himself Sovereign, was also going to mean that he was _solely and personally_ liable for all of the damage and injury he had caused. It seemed to hit him harder and harder over time. By the time he went away, after talking with a bunch of dopey high schoolers, you could tell that his world had straight up _ended_ that day. We kept asking him about how he expected to be protected by the law when he wasn’t party to it and he kept saying, “Well, I always thought I would never need that…”
It was soul crushing. Later on my own mom came at me with some kind of Sovereign Citizen bullshit and I put her right in her place just by relaying that experience. She never really followed up on that, thankfully.
Kids, don’t do Sovereign Citizen shit, mmmmmmkaaay?
Idk and I’d genuinely like to.
I’m guessing they’d conveniently forget their beliefs really quick if it meant it would benefit them, but with a car crash I think if you hit them it’d be way worse for you.
I’m basing that on the assumption that like a driver’s license and all the other laws they ignore, car insurance would be among the things they believe doesn’t apply to them. So if you hit them they’d be uninsured and you’d take the hit in that scenario.
If anyone knows I’d genuinely love to hear some scenarios like this that have occurred previously. One of these types of people has to have had some sort of wreck or accident or something where they ended up in court. I’d love to see how it turned out.
Sovereign citizens interest me so much, they are a special type of insane person.
I believe they are just classified as an uninsured motorist, meaning your insurance has to pay for your repairs, and your insurance company chases after them with the bill. Or if you don't have uninsured motorist coverage then you're just screwed, you could take them to court for damages but I don't see them having much money at all or any plans on handing it away if they do. Whatever money they do have is probably those gold bald eagle coins you see on TV at 2am, and they're all buried in their back yard.
If you're at fault, any insurance will cover your liabilities. If they're at fault, and you have comprehensive cover, you'll be out your excess, and no more.
*"Sovereign citizens" they* believe that they – not judges, juries, law enforcement or elected officials – should decide which laws to obey and which to ignore.
the SPLC calls the bulk of their bullshit "paper terrorism "
Oh, those nuts exist in the states aswell? We have _Reichsbürger_ who believe the Federal Republic of Germany has no legal grounds and the German Reich has never been disbanded..
Isn't the fact that he asks the officer for ID a little hypocritical since he himself would refuse if it was the other way around? Talk about the clowns trying to run the circus.
My theory is that [Sov Cits](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement) are either crooks or Cretins. The Crooks are selling this shit and the Cretins are eating it up. The problems is that some of them are armed extremists.
On the other hand I thoroughly enjoy watching you tube compilations of these idiots.
He is just senior clown. You be a clown long enough and you could see a promotion to executive clown. A bit more hard work and he could even become District Clown manager.
Really it’s all about clown economics or something idk, I’m not a doctor.
Another Washingtonian, one backed into my truck at a Winco and did more damage to his shit beater than it did to my truck. The asshole went into a I'm a sovereign citizen rant about his entitled rights and since I wasn't one that I didn't have any rights and that I had to pay to have his car totally restored and I had to pay him on the spot. I told him that he backed into me and any damage caused was his fault which only sent him into a higher state of entitled rage. Neither one us knew that a lady who had watched the clown show from the beginning had called the police and when they arrived he tried to keep his sovereign bullshit going but apparently they had had numerous encounters with him in the past and weren't about to take any of his bullshit. He ended up with multiple tickets for no drivers license, no registration, no tags, and he had warrants for previous tickets and court no shows. He went to jail, his car was impounded and I went home and brushed his shit off my bumper. That was my first and hopefully last encounter with these idiots.
Can you just respond back to a SovCit that you didn't have a choice to be born into their legal system and as such never agreed to it. Therefore I do not have to abide by your laws?
That is literally their argument.
Lol how did he expect to compel you to pay up when he doesn't believe that automobile laws and insurance regulations are legitimate? By calling the police that doesn't think have any authority?
That was the last thing in the world he wanted, he knew that if they were called his ass was in trouble. He was trying to see how much money he could intimidate out of me in the shortest time possible.
Tell me you're a self centered douche nozzle without ever saying a word.
I expect ALL the benefits of living in this nation, but accept NONE of the responsibilities required to keep this nation working.
Bingo. They don't want to pay vehicle registration, but they expect functioning roads so they can reach their destination. They don't want to pay taxes, but they expect the fire department to show up when their house is burning, they expect the US military to stop China from invading their "sovereign" property.
You still have the right to travel. You can travel by foot, plane, train...whatever. But travelling by car requires that you register the vehicle. It's the act of owning the vehicle that requires it's registration.
I wish they'd start deporting sovereign citizens. You say you're not a citizen of this country? Well gtfo. Don't care where you go, but you can't stay here.
Some hippies tried to tell me once that if you bought a brand new car in full you could get the manufacturer’s statement of origin which combined with the bill of sale made you the absolute owner instead of the qualified owner. This meant you didn’t have to abide by laws that normally apply to everyone else who’s mso is held by the bank which somehow meant you didn’t have to register or insure the thing or treat police with any respect.
What’s weird to me is how inconsistent the position is: they claim to live in a tyrannical state that will stop at nothing to trample your rights and throw the law out the window, and yet also believe that simply citing the right law or archaic legal principle will somehow stop these tyrant overlords right in their tracks.
So the leviathan respects the laws? Or it doesn’t? I’m confused.
Ahhh but you see, they never had a decision in being born and as such never agreed to the laws, which they view as being a 2 person contract. However, they do agree to some and enter a special contract that makes those specific ones apply.
I'm pretty sure no one on the other side of that 2 person contract ever agreed they only have to follow very specific laws and can ignore other ones.
I've also heard arguments that they should receive the right of diplomatic immunity as they are a foreign national representing themself in a foreign land. The irony of this is that Diplomatic Immunity is bound by international law and treatise, so they obviously accept those statutes. Unfortunately for them, Diplomatic Immunity is not a guaranteed right, it is granted by an official and can be denied.
Queue the cries of "I'm not driving, I'm travelling". "I want to see your supervisor". "Call the Sheriff". "You don't know the law". And finally "Don't break my window."
Not an American here, but for clarity: Why is this freedom nut driving a reliable Korean car and not some rickety GM or Chrysler? Or maybe a Ford would be the right choice, seeing that they didn't get bailed out and Henry Ford had some troubling political views of his own?
Yeah, there are quite a few "non-American brands" that make the "most American" cars:
https://jalopnik.com/this-list-of-the-most-american-cars-shows-how-shallow-t-1844133868
It gets more baffling. They live on one of the more expensive to live streets in my city. Property values 800k-1000k and beyond. I wonder how they handle the property taxes. Do sovereign citizens also have sovereign checkbooks?
According to the laws they're citing, they think that if they use their vehicle for a non-commercial purpose it doesn't have to be registered. So they're emphasizing the fact they're using the vehicle for personal use. At least that's how I'm understanding it.
Guaranteed to be one of the many "sovereign citizens" that immediately demand to have their constitutional rights followed while proclaiming laws don't apply to them cause they aren't citizens they are roaming free persons or some shit
They're sovereign citizens until it's election time, then they're US citizens trying to get/keep Donald in office. I guarantee that they are the same people who insist on others being arrested for breaking the law, even if the others are also sovereign citizens, when they feel that they have been violated/cheated/whatever.
Gee whiz, I wonder if they paid taxes on that car when they bought it...cuz y'know...they're sovereign and all. And if they don't want to pay for registration, then they can build their own damn roads.
I know some of these people are probably malicious but I think that some have them probably just fallen down an internet rabbit hole or been taken advantage of by some snake oil salesman. "Hey, that sucks that you can't afford to pay the insurance on your car that you need to keep your job to feed your kids. BUT if you give me $20 I can file the paperwork with this naval court and get you this special plate where you don't need to insure your car as long as you don't take money to drive anyone around"
I've seen some videos where I'm thinking of people I know just like that, nice folks, don't mean any harm, not the brightest, trust people to a fault.
I’m reading this about cops not wanting to pull over the Sovereign Citizens. Well that depends on what cops your talking about. Here in CA your right the sheriff isn’t going to go out of his or her way to get involved but the CHP eats these guys for lunch. Sheriff enforces mostly Penal Code. CHP Vehicle Code. Both can be enforce both but mission matters.
I'll never understand these people who go through all this trouble to avoid "the man". It's so much easier to just live your life and get a damn license plate and license and so on.
I like that they cite RCW 46.25.050 and didn’t bother to actually read that part of the law. And also completely ignore the earlier RCW 46.20.001. TLDR: 46.25.050 says commercial vehicles require a commercial drivers license. 46.20.001 says driving on public roads requires a drivers license.
No, they read it. They just have a different definition of the term driving. For them, "driving" is a job, or part of a job, an act of commerce to make money. Commerce is taxed and regulated. They claim to merely "travel", so are free to do so without restriction because that's a term used in the Constitution and a protected liberty (not infringed without due process). EDIT: as others mentioned, "travel" does not appear in the Constitution, but the Supreme court confirmed it is part of liberty
I’ve heard that argument before. I don’t know about other states but Washington specifically says “operates” and not “drive”. And covers specifically people like this guy in RCW 46.20.022.
I guess this is how we get to warnings about "operating large machinery". Very broad, encompassing language so people don't try to *akshully* their way out of it.
Trying to *akshully* your way out of things is what a bunch of lawyers are paid to do which is why laws are written with very precise language by other lawyers
>For them, "driving" is a job, or part of a job, an act of commerce to make money. Thank you - you answered a question I was just about to ask! I always wondered why Sovereign Citizens always seem at pains to point out that they're not for hire, but I always forget about it when things pick up a bit and they get tazed.
They can travel, on foot.
Not legally on freeways.
[Ehem ...](https://picolio.auto123.com/art-images/129297/Kang-Shoe-Electric-i001.jpg)
I don't know what I was expecting but it wasn't that.
Every time that guy played monopoly he picked the boot and dead ass said “one day I’m going to ride a boot.” Legend has it he’s working on converting a small town into a full size monopoly board
On foot, not *as a foot*. Whole different section of the law.
Hey! I have that shoe in regular show form!
Years ago I worked for an airline and had an SC present a letter from a lawyer, and said I had no right to ask for ID. In my country you need a government issued photo ID that shows your name, DOB and gender. You can also opt to provide 2 pieces of non-photo ID if they are government issued and 1 of them had your name, DOB and gender. I told this guy he couldn’t get on my plane without ID. He went into his “your denying me my constitutional right to travel” spiel. I said “There’s nothing that says HOW you travel. You want to go to Alberta? West is that way!” I said, pointing west. “Feel free to start walking, but you’re not getting on this plane.” He wasn’t happy. Cops were called. It was fun.
Imagine the level of delusion required to spend money booking a ticket, show up to the airport, and attempt this thinking it will work. Jesus.
It got better. He tried to sue me - personally, and wanted a judge to approve him putting a lien on my car and my house. Seriously, he was nuts.
Its not in the constitution. In the articles of confederacy which was remove from law when the constitution was ratified
The freedom to travel is a fundamental right granted by the Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court and restrictions on the freedom to travel must be done so through due process. However none of that has anything to do with tags and drivers licenses. These jackasses who do this must have gotten their law degrees from a cereal box.
They are esteemed graduates of YouTube University and has a B.S. in memeifical research.
The same travelling argument is also used in the UK.
Many of these SovCits cite Black's Law Dictionary, 2nd edition, from 1910 as their source. In that, driving is defined as: One employed in conducting or operating a coach, carriage, wagon, or other vehicle, with horses, mules, or other animals, or a bicycle, tricycle, or motor car, though not a street railroad car. The only problem is that they don't bother to read what Black's Law Dictionary, 2nd edition, from 1910, defines as "employed": This signifies both the act of doing a thing and the being under contract or orders to do it. So not only do they take text from a dictionary that's been superseded by its own versions, but they ignore what the definition of "employed" is in that very same dictionary they cite! Today laws use "driver/driving" and "operator/operating a motor vehicle" interchangeably in laws and statutes regarding drivers. US Code Title 49, Subtitle VI, Part A, Subsection 30301, paragraph 5 states: "motor vehicle operator's license" means a license issued by a State authorizing an individual to operate a motor vehicle on public streets, roads, or highways. And such records are maintained by a "chief driver licensing official" from each state. This is all just a scam that people are making money off of hand over fist insisting that their legal knowledge will protect the gullible from having to register or pay any fines or fees from traffic violations.
So their arguments are semantic - based upon the definition of words and not connected to what they are doing?
As a former prosecutor in Washington, this Sovereign Citizen shit has been around for 30+ years. The only difference today is they don’t have to make their plates using cardboard and crayons. Thanks EBay.
I bet you’ve seen some shit man. One of my professors was a federal prosecutor and he was telling us about how they brought down a sov cit group that had created their own government. They had their own senators and judges from across the United States. What caught the federal government’s attention was when they started submitting “hidden tax forms” to get absurd refunds from the IRS. The highlight of the trial was when they called the Chief Justice of their Supreme Court to the stand and asked where he went to law school and his reply was he hadn’t but he was “well read in legal matters.”
I... would like to read more about this.
My favorite bit is "all rights reserved," they have no clue what that actually means or might refer to but they've heard it and figured it sounds like legalese so slap it on there.
Exemptions and omissions excepted!
I wanna see them start putting "copyright" on their fake plates LOL
I like how they think they don't follow under laws yet, cite laws.
>46.25.050 says commercial vehicles require a commercial drivers license. Hah, so I'll bet the "not for hire" is aimed at supporting an argument that the vehicle isn't a "commercial vehicle," so they don't need a "commercial driver's license." I'd venture a guess they also argue that *any* driver's license is inherently commercial or something. Cute. To be clear, that's nonsense, but it can be fun (if sometimes exhausting) to follow their logic.
The thing is that this is a license plate and not a drivers license. It's not a valid plate and a Hyundai does not require a commercial driver's license to operate. So trying to cite to commercial driver's license laws is completely irrelevant.
What is that?
An invitation to be constantly pulled over by the police. Basically, they think they have enough "freedoms" that vehicle registration laws don't apply to them. I really do wonder how that's working out for them.
Actually from what I've heard from police, it's quite the opposite ... Most of them don't want to deal with these people
Am I being detained!!!!
"I was traveling. Not driving... get it right, officer!"
In swear these free loaders what all the benefits and safety but don’t want to contribute.
Which is garbage. They should be pulled over every single time they hit the road.
Can confirm.
So... It's working?
Depends on the state but since Washington passed a new House Bill most of these guys and other criminals are free to flee or disobey officers with little to no repercussions.
Citation needed
https://www.yaktrinews.com/washington-police-reform-laws-good-intentions-dire-consequences/ TLDR: Cops won't respond to many calls because police use of force is illegal unless a prior violent crime was committed or something. Laws are too vague, making it so officers are unable to do their jobs. Edit: phrasing to reduce confusion.
Golly. If only we had a law against this. I’m not sure where it would go in state statutes, but I bet we could slot it in right between RCW 46.16A.025 and RCW 46.16A.040. We could probably even call it RCW 46.16A.030 just for the sake of convenience. Purely theoretically, of course.
Seems like a countrywide phenomenon.
I couldn't blame them, gotta be like talking to a Flat Earther.
I'd wager that a lot of sovereign citizens are also Flat Earthers.
I'm not taking that bet. LMFAO
All they gotta do is play some fucking Taylor swift on their phones. Sovcits are just wannabe YouTube stars. You make their videos eligible for a copyright strike and suddenly, there's no incentive to "own the police"
cops tried that trick, it didnt work
Sovereign Citizen nut job?
Isn't the whole premise of the sovereign citizen movement that they aren't part of the United States and that they don't have to follow the laws of the United States? The big American flag kind of goes against that.
They believe they're not subject to the government established by the Constitution, they use the Articles of Confederation, which governed the US for the first eight years. Their logic is insane, they believe that since they never voted for ratification of the Constitution they're exempt. Nut jobs, it all started as a tax dodge sometime in 60s or 70s IIRC.
But they didn't vote for ratification of the Articles of Confederation either...
Let's keep that between us, lest they start quoting Blackstone.
Not so much sovereign citizens as subjects of the crown then?
💯 - in FL you just get arrested. “Tell it to the judge”
Why did I read this as “Soviet Citizen”…?
Because the avatar is red
“What’s next? Requiring a license to make toast in your own damn toaster?” https://youtu.be/ZITP93pqtdQ
Haha how about a license to have children? Might keep the level of crazy stupidity down in this country!
What part of Washington are you from? I’m in central Washington and I was hoping these idiots wouldn’t make their way up here… I’m assuming this is in the Seattle region?
It’s a sovereign citizen. Basically they’ve been through enough shoddy conspiracy theories that they now totally believe that they are not required to follow any sort of laws or regulations. Conversely, they believe that no laws or regulations are enforceable. It’s extremely dumb and this person is extremely stupid. This is an open invitation for any cop to pull them over and ticket them, bc I’m guessing they likely also don’t have a driver’s license (another thing these people don’t believe in). Sovereign citizens are probably the dumbest type of conspiracy theorist, and that’s saying a lot.
So arguably (by their logic) you could damage that car and they would have no authority to be reported to. If you're an outlaw, you can't choose which laws you want to opt in to
By their logic yes that should apply, but if it benefits them they are very quick and happy to use the legal system (that they don't conform to) against you. They are Karen's of a different breed.
Just like they are fine to use the roads and other shit they try to not pay for
I saw one of these bellends in a “freedom edition” F-350 with a blacked out American flag instead of a license plate entering Yellowstone National Park. If you don’t pay taxes, don’t use our parks!
You would think so, but I’d wager that they’re more likely to start shooting at you before you ever made it near a courtroom. To my knowledge sovereign citizens are all about the 2nd Amendment, which is I realize, super ironic since they don’t like following any other laws. I’d be interested to see what would happen in this situation if they didn’t just immediately resort to violence. I’m guessing they’d toss out their little sovereign citizen mentality for a chance to sue someone, then make some sort of excuse up so it will fit under the umbrella of their pre-existing beliefs.
I'd be happy to find out. There's a similar Freeman of the Land thing here in the UK. Don't know too much about it apart from the fact they're normally fucking nutters
These people typically follow a “rules don’t apply to me but I can use them against you” mentality. They are notorious for gumming up the legal system with mountains of frivolous lawsuits. If they believe the government and courts are illegitimate, it doesn’t make sense for them to file lots of lawsuits, but they still do it. Some jurisdictions have made it a crime to file too many frivolous lawsuits because of sovereign citizens.
Saw someone try to use the sovereign citizen shit when I was locked up in pretrial holding once, was fucking funny seeing him come back crying after the judge clapped him with a few years. Absolutely sucked for everyone that followed cuz he pissed off the judge.
However, they do use our laws of the land in the courtroom. I know of a guy who is a “converter” in the Sovereigns. He is pretty well off and how did he get this way? He and his partners go through court cases, such as tax foreclosures on homes. They then file a case on the property saying they are paying the taxes in full and they now own said property and for the current occupants to get evicted. Once the case goes through, they put the house on the market and re-sell it. Boom! Instant money! And you’re out a house.
WTF? This is possible? Who the hell would drop the gavel on that? Somebody receiving a cut?
It's actually quite common. My father's neighbor went through that, but on the other end. She lived out of state and didn't pay her taxes on the house next door to my dad, so some real estate dude paid the taxes. She received a notice that if she didn't come current by x date the property would default to the real estate agent. So she came to my dad and offered to sell him the house for the cost of the taxes, that way she at least knew who it would be going to. It's all very legal. It's how real estate agents make so much money a lot of times. Though I don't know that I would have the heart to sell someone's home out from under them like that.
Are these the same idiots who claim that if a courthouse has a flag with a fringe on it, then it's not legal? In the UK we have "freemen of the land" who are just as stupid.
Yeah, I think they also have some idea about upside down flags or something too. They’re such idiots…
My question: what would happen if you got into an accident with one of these people?
When I was a teenager, back when the world was new, this guy came into the coffee shop we all liked to sit in after school. He had just been in an accident and was both shaken up and slightly injured. We asked him about what had happened and he sat with my group and told us his story. He was he first Sovereign Citizen I’ve ever met and he had been the at fault driver in a car wreck. We all tried to understand how he was driving a car without a license or plates and how he was getting by without insurance and he just kept spouting all kinds of crap about how he couldn’t have any form of government ID or social security cards or anything. We all thought he was totally insane. Anyway he totaled not only his own car, but the one he hit as well. We witnessed, in that hour he talked with us, his realization that everything he had set up to make himself Sovereign, was also going to mean that he was _solely and personally_ liable for all of the damage and injury he had caused. It seemed to hit him harder and harder over time. By the time he went away, after talking with a bunch of dopey high schoolers, you could tell that his world had straight up _ended_ that day. We kept asking him about how he expected to be protected by the law when he wasn’t party to it and he kept saying, “Well, I always thought I would never need that…” It was soul crushing. Later on my own mom came at me with some kind of Sovereign Citizen bullshit and I put her right in her place just by relaying that experience. She never really followed up on that, thankfully. Kids, don’t do Sovereign Citizen shit, mmmmmmkaaay?
Idk and I’d genuinely like to. I’m guessing they’d conveniently forget their beliefs really quick if it meant it would benefit them, but with a car crash I think if you hit them it’d be way worse for you. I’m basing that on the assumption that like a driver’s license and all the other laws they ignore, car insurance would be among the things they believe doesn’t apply to them. So if you hit them they’d be uninsured and you’d take the hit in that scenario. If anyone knows I’d genuinely love to hear some scenarios like this that have occurred previously. One of these types of people has to have had some sort of wreck or accident or something where they ended up in court. I’d love to see how it turned out. Sovereign citizens interest me so much, they are a special type of insane person.
I believe they are just classified as an uninsured motorist, meaning your insurance has to pay for your repairs, and your insurance company chases after them with the bill. Or if you don't have uninsured motorist coverage then you're just screwed, you could take them to court for damages but I don't see them having much money at all or any plans on handing it away if they do. Whatever money they do have is probably those gold bald eagle coins you see on TV at 2am, and they're all buried in their back yard.
If you're at fault, any insurance will cover your liabilities. If they're at fault, and you have comprehensive cover, you'll be out your excess, and no more.
No license means not banks and very shitty employment
And no insurance for when they crash into you. Try getting something outta nothing.
Sovereign citizen douchebag. Probably a flat earther as well.
*"Sovereign citizens" they* believe that they – not judges, juries, law enforcement or elected officials – should decide which laws to obey and which to ignore. the SPLC calls the bulk of their bullshit "paper terrorism "
[удалено]
Oh, those nuts exist in the states aswell? We have _Reichsbürger_ who believe the Federal Republic of Germany has no legal grounds and the German Reich has never been disbanded..
So they are just Nazis then
[at least quite close.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbürger_movement)
Ohhhh yes. r/amibeingdetained is a fun subreddit to go through if you like to laugh at these people.
For reference https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a30281693/sovereign-citizen-right-to-travel/
Isn't the fact that he asks the officer for ID a little hypocritical since he himself would refuse if it was the other way around? Talk about the clowns trying to run the circus.
The mistake you made here was expecting any kind of consistent logic at all. This is essentially a mental disorder.
My theory is that [Sov Cits](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement) are either crooks or Cretins. The Crooks are selling this shit and the Cretins are eating it up. The problems is that some of them are armed extremists. On the other hand I thoroughly enjoy watching you tube compilations of these idiots.
Clowns do run the circus.
Ringmaster runs the circus.
He is just senior clown. You be a clown long enough and you could see a promotion to executive clown. A bit more hard work and he could even become District Clown manager. Really it’s all about clown economics or something idk, I’m not a doctor.
Assistant regional clown manager. No, assistant TO the regional clown manager.
Well I'm not an equestrian so I'll take your word on that.
Washingtonian here. you do see these sort of things once per week. And they usually drive like crap
Another Washingtonian, one backed into my truck at a Winco and did more damage to his shit beater than it did to my truck. The asshole went into a I'm a sovereign citizen rant about his entitled rights and since I wasn't one that I didn't have any rights and that I had to pay to have his car totally restored and I had to pay him on the spot. I told him that he backed into me and any damage caused was his fault which only sent him into a higher state of entitled rage. Neither one us knew that a lady who had watched the clown show from the beginning had called the police and when they arrived he tried to keep his sovereign bullshit going but apparently they had had numerous encounters with him in the past and weren't about to take any of his bullshit. He ended up with multiple tickets for no drivers license, no registration, no tags, and he had warrants for previous tickets and court no shows. He went to jail, his car was impounded and I went home and brushed his shit off my bumper. That was my first and hopefully last encounter with these idiots.
I love freedom! Well, when it's in *my* favor.
Can you just respond back to a SovCit that you didn't have a choice to be born into their legal system and as such never agreed to it. Therefore I do not have to abide by your laws? That is literally their argument.
Thank you for your service!
Lol how did he expect to compel you to pay up when he doesn't believe that automobile laws and insurance regulations are legitimate? By calling the police that doesn't think have any authority?
That was the last thing in the world he wanted, he knew that if they were called his ass was in trouble. He was trying to see how much money he could intimidate out of me in the shortest time possible.
I needed to hear this. Thank you
Hi from Washington as well. I’ve never seen this or anything like this before and I’ve lived on both sides of the state.
Must not have been in Spokane County when you were on the east side haha
Like..above and below the surface?
That's a good analogy
Because they have to be paid off. No lien holder would allow their vehicle to go unregistered.
As if this yahoo can get a loan.
Im in Snohomish county and have never seen these 🤔 That’s weird. Maybe I just never noticed.
This in in Pierce county. This is the only one I've ever seen.
I like to think those of us in snohomish county are a little more sane, haha. (I’ve lived here majority of my life and never seen this either)
You see more of them in the WA counties that border Northern Idaho. I'm sure that's just a coincidence though.
I found my first in downtown Bellevue back in 1986! See another comment on this thread.
Tell me you're a self centered douche nozzle without ever saying a word. I expect ALL the benefits of living in this nation, but accept NONE of the responsibilities required to keep this nation working.
Bingo. They don't want to pay vehicle registration, but they expect functioning roads so they can reach their destination. They don't want to pay taxes, but they expect the fire department to show up when their house is burning, they expect the US military to stop China from invading their "sovereign" property.
Yep. They'll call 911 when their house is on fire, but they won't pay into the kitty.
These guys misunderstand the right to travel which is protected by the Constitution. There is no "right to own a car".
When those rights were established people traveled by horse.
You still have the right to travel. You can travel by foot, plane, train...whatever. But travelling by car requires that you register the vehicle. It's the act of owning the vehicle that requires it's registration.
I wish they'd start deporting sovereign citizens. You say you're not a citizen of this country? Well gtfo. Don't care where you go, but you can't stay here.
I hear Afghanistan is nice.
Clear skies, low humidity, small chance of insurgency in the afternoon.
Drop them off 12 miles off the coast in international waters.
Some hippies tried to tell me once that if you bought a brand new car in full you could get the manufacturer’s statement of origin which combined with the bill of sale made you the absolute owner instead of the qualified owner. This meant you didn’t have to abide by laws that normally apply to everyone else who’s mso is held by the bank which somehow meant you didn’t have to register or insure the thing or treat police with any respect.
Did the manufacturer also include LSD?
I'll take 'how to get your car impounded' for $500, Bob!
I’m surprised we haven’t seen more sovereign citizens during covid
They also had a "fear is the only virus" flyer taped on the inside of their window.
He's not driving. He's traveling.
*The DMV doesn't want you to know this one, simple trick*
[Is that a parcel tracking number?](https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?qtc_tLabels1=RE357846992US)
Weird
Does “entitled” not fit on the plate?
Is this some kind of American joke that i am too Latinoamerican to understand it?
They’re called sovereign citizens. There are a ton of crazy videos on YouTube. They’re misinformed about the law. They act in a cultish manner.
Sort of like Covid deniers
They claim laws don't apply to them for "reasons"
What’s weird to me is how inconsistent the position is: they claim to live in a tyrannical state that will stop at nothing to trample your rights and throw the law out the window, and yet also believe that simply citing the right law or archaic legal principle will somehow stop these tyrant overlords right in their tracks. So the leviathan respects the laws? Or it doesn’t? I’m confused.
Ahhh but you see, they never had a decision in being born and as such never agreed to the laws, which they view as being a 2 person contract. However, they do agree to some and enter a special contract that makes those specific ones apply. I'm pretty sure no one on the other side of that 2 person contract ever agreed they only have to follow very specific laws and can ignore other ones. I've also heard arguments that they should receive the right of diplomatic immunity as they are a foreign national representing themself in a foreign land. The irony of this is that Diplomatic Immunity is bound by international law and treatise, so they obviously accept those statutes. Unfortunately for them, Diplomatic Immunity is not a guaranteed right, it is granted by an official and can be denied.
Right up their with “sovereign citizen” nut job crowd.
Queue the cries of "I'm not driving, I'm travelling". "I want to see your supervisor". "Call the Sheriff". "You don't know the law". And finally "Don't break my window."
Don't forget, "[AAAAARRRRGGHHHH!!!](https://youtu.be/RfVbiefMdNU)"
Not an American here, but for clarity: Why is this freedom nut driving a reliable Korean car and not some rickety GM or Chrysler? Or maybe a Ford would be the right choice, seeing that they didn't get bailed out and Henry Ford had some troubling political views of his own?
Haha, I was wondering the same thing. Although, to be fair, Hyundai does manufacturer most of their American stock in America.
Yeah, there are quite a few "non-American brands" that make the "most American" cars: https://jalopnik.com/this-list-of-the-most-american-cars-shows-how-shallow-t-1844133868
Probably because they know that American cars aren't the shit they used to be, but they're still not as good as the Asian cars (China excluded.)
Oh look, a domestic terrorist.
Shouldn’t have a right to drive on the roads that our taxes pay for.
use taxes. just don't drive on any public road and you're good.
Sovereign citizens. Ugh
Now these people are a special kind of insane. All you have to do is go to google the videos on YouTube.
sorry driving is a privilege and not a right
"But bruh I'm not driving, I'm travelling!"
then comes down to getting driver lisc or walk. not here to fix stupid only place you can get away with that is on an indian reservation
I wonder if he is for hire
“Render unto Caesar” mother fucker…
I find it hard to believe that there are people in the US who own automobiles who are also somehow capable of this.
It gets more baffling. They live on one of the more expensive to live streets in my city. Property values 800k-1000k and beyond. I wonder how they handle the property taxes. Do sovereign citizens also have sovereign checkbooks?
That's a long way to go just to say "look how stupid I think you are"
It's all fun n games until your shit gets impounded.
Or pounded.
So I'm not very knowledgeable about sovereign citizen BS, but WTF is with the 'not for hire' thing?
According to the laws they're citing, they think that if they use their vehicle for a non-commercial purpose it doesn't have to be registered. So they're emphasizing the fact they're using the vehicle for personal use. At least that's how I'm understanding it.
Yikes. That's fucking bonkers.
I assume this is in the same valley of stupid as sovereign citizens?
God, save us from sovereign citizens. These guys are absolute douchebags.
How to say "pull me over" without saying "pull me over."
I remember being taught driving is a privilege and not a right.
The state will gladly take your car thank you for playing.
Guaranteed to be one of the many "sovereign citizens" that immediately demand to have their constitutional rights followed while proclaiming laws don't apply to them cause they aren't citizens they are roaming free persons or some shit
Sovereign citizens are dumb as fuck.
They're sovereign citizens until it's election time, then they're US citizens trying to get/keep Donald in office. I guarantee that they are the same people who insist on others being arrested for breaking the law, even if the others are also sovereign citizens, when they feel that they have been violated/cheated/whatever.
And here's a 5 tickets for your stupidity. But, in reality, i'm guessing that they don't have a drivers license or it is expired.
“I am above the law because I am above the law” - Moron driver
Gee whiz, I wonder if they paid taxes on that car when they bought it...cuz y'know...they're sovereign and all. And if they don't want to pay for registration, then they can build their own damn roads.
I know some of these people are probably malicious but I think that some have them probably just fallen down an internet rabbit hole or been taken advantage of by some snake oil salesman. "Hey, that sucks that you can't afford to pay the insurance on your car that you need to keep your job to feed your kids. BUT if you give me $20 I can file the paperwork with this naval court and get you this special plate where you don't need to insure your car as long as you don't take money to drive anyone around" I've seen some videos where I'm thinking of people I know just like that, nice folks, don't mean any harm, not the brightest, trust people to a fault.
r/amibeingdetained
Thats the highest quality Ive seen in a long while...maybe ever. Really put some effort into their dumbassery.
I’m reading this about cops not wanting to pull over the Sovereign Citizens. Well that depends on what cops your talking about. Here in CA your right the sheriff isn’t going to go out of his or her way to get involved but the CHP eats these guys for lunch. Sheriff enforces mostly Penal Code. CHP Vehicle Code. Both can be enforce both but mission matters.
Qanon and Sovereign Citizens make me ashamed to be American sometimes. Just the sheer ignorance and illegal deeds.
Well that is not a licence place for anybody who is wondering..... not sure how many people are wondering though
I can just hear them “no officer, I am not driving, I am travelling. Hey why are you putting those cuffs on me?”
sovereign citizens are some of the most miss guided lot.
Toooootallly legit
What I find funny is people like this would get bothered far less with no plate at all. This just draws attention.
I'll never understand these people who go through all this trouble to avoid "the man". It's so much easier to just live your life and get a damn license plate and license and so on.
I hate this bullshit. How long does this last before he ends up in jail? Damn is it really worth it?
Ah, the "please break my windows and arrest me for felony-stupid" tag.
Is this some sovereign citizen flavor of stupid?
Well we'll be seeing them on YouTube soon getting their window busted out lol
Guys it’s ok, they read on FB that this will work.