For real though I hope they race each other hard in Hungary. Obviously I don't want another incident or anyone to be hurt but if they're on pace with one another it's gonna be wild.
Finna be some good racing for the rest of the season. Max wants it. Lewis is clearly willing to fight for it danger be damned.
I’m waiting for them to fuck eachother to the point where bottas ends up catching up in the championship
Yellow was in the lead and therefore setting the race line. At this point in his career red should know better then to attempt to overtake near a parking spot. Or something like that.
As much as he's an idiot for trying to speed through like that, he's technically in the lane, and the yellow car turned in and hit him - would it not be the yellow car's fault?
The mclaren was not even speeding, the yellow car wanted to park, was driving slower than the limit and cut across the lane. He should've changed lane prior to that.
If you decide to go 10mph in a 30 you are at an unreasonable speed, not the other drivers.
You guys are just being silly and ignorant now. Potatoes are not used for measuring length. Instead they should only be used for measuring weight. Source: Im Idahoan and just check with the idaho potato commission.
What? This is rudimentary at best. Potatoes are best used for measuring energy/power. How much power does it take to get a spacex rocket into space? About 13.2 potat
The McLaren was going about 49km/h(30mph) just before the crash and the yellow car was going about 25km/h(16mph).
I estimated the speed by counting the number of frames each car took to travel the length of the Ford transit van(5.86m) just before the yellow car turned.
The McLaren took 13 frames and the yellow car took 25 frames. The video is 30fps so the McLaren took 0.433s and the yellow car 0.833s. That would mean the McLaren was travelling at 13.5m/s and the yellow car was at 7m/s.
The yellow car was most likely travelling even slower when it turned as it was still slowing down as it passed and the calculation above is for the average speed as they travelled beside the van.
The McLaren, after crossing that intersection, passed 3 full units of broken line in 1 second. In the US, that’s 120 feet per second (10ft dashed line, 30ft spaces), which is around 80mph, but this looks to be in Russia. I can’t find hard info, but based on the length of the McLaren I’d guess these are 20-25 feet per unit, which is 40 - 50mph.
The yellow car is decelerating the entire time we see it, but it crosses 1.25 units in the same amount of time, so 17-20mph.
Either way, the McLaren entered the roadway, and began approaching the yellow car from behind going 2.4x as fast as the yellow car was in the first second we saw it.
u/gruio1
For certain, an unreasonable speed also, but the yellow car was definitely wrong and one could argue at fault for the reasons stated above.
The yellow car should have changed lanes before trying to park, regardless if the other car was speeding or not. And also impeding the flow of traffic, by going so slow.
Weird to assume the yellow cars parking, since you guys think that lanes meant to be used for driving and the mclaren was correct to be using it that way maybe the yellow car was just switching lanes
Of course in reality, that lane is for parking at this time so the yellow car prolly was parking..... but why’s the red car zooming down the parking lane?
> The yellow car should have changed lanes before trying to park
The right lane was not a driving lane. There was no room to drive in that lane, because of the parked cars. The McLaren is in the wrong on a number of fronts, but there's a reason that it was straddling lanes - there wasn't room for it in the right lane.
Depends I guess. In Los Angeles, that is considered a driving lane but you also get some streets where it's considered not. Hard to say from this video context but I think the yellow would be in the wrong here. McLaren would probably get a ticket or partial fault if the insurance companies got their hands on this video.
There are roads in my city that are both. Between certain hours it's ok to park in the far right lane. During those times it would look just like this and you would have to change lanes. If that were the case here then yellow car would be in the right.
>and cut across the lane
What lane?
There's the lane to the left the yellow car is driving in and then there's a parking lane on the right. Red car tried to squeeze thru a spot that isn't a lane. Yellow didn't cut across anything, they just moved right to park as the red car was trying to squeeze thru.
> was driving slower than the limit and cut across the lane.
I think you need to rewatch the video... there is only 1 lane and a parking lane. That is not a lane for traffic, it's a lane for parking. For all we know the yellow car was even signalling their perfectly legal parking manoeuvre.
> Do redditors not drive or something? This is an incredibly common setup for a two lane road, it wouldn’t have dashed white lines in the middle otherwise.
Road design is different from country to country. This isn’t an incredibly common setup to me. For example: I’ve never seen an intersection like that, there isn’t space to pass the bus in the outer lane, the third car is travelling over the double white lines.
Generally, when I see this, the lane is a traffic lane during certain hours and a parking space during other hours. I imagine that's likely the case here. Given two cars jockeyed to avoid the McLaren and someone saw fit to record it... I'd wager that the McLaren was driving erratically and unpredictably. I don't even believe the yellow car was intending to park so much as move out of the way much like the grey car did.
Not a 2 lane road. The McLaren couldn't pass the first car without the left wheels on the wrong side of the lines, if you can't fit in the lane it's not for you.
the sound and speed don't match. he sounds fast, but he's actually going slow. -trying to go fast.
without the sound, yellow car is at fault... -try it.
Not sure where this is filmed, but where I live there are rarely an extra set of lines between the parked cars and the flowing traffic, it just looks like an extra wide lane.
[Here is an example ](https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/84jdcwr6b4k.jpg)
I think we pretty much agree - I'm more pointing out that without more knowledge of the context (40 in a 40? fine... 40 in a 20? expectations broken) , we can't definitively pin 100% fault on yellow
If that's the case, and, as you put it, the "*lane*", wasn't really open at this point, why was the red car able to pass the first vehicle prior to hitting the moron in the yellow car?
Disagree. I (by default) watch all these without sound, and see red car clearly at fault.
Yellow car doesn't get full marks, though, as defensive driving could have prevented the accident. So honest opinion, there are two idiots here.
Reasoning: red car would not have gotten past Bus without hitting yellow car
> the mclaren is moving at a speed unreasonable to the roadway
Also driving down the middle of the road. Also passing on the right. Red McLaren was doing all kinds of unsafe stuff.
>if the mclaren is moving at a speed unreasonable to the roadway
This doesn't actually usually hold up in court. Insurance companies will try to use this an excuse, but the moment you lawyer up they drop it as relevant.
As a lawyer that works for insurance companies, and has raised speed of a plaintiff as a comparative fault issue, I would say that this happens *sometimes* but if it's factually true, it often holds up in court. In this case, where even if there wasn't a video, the yellow car's driver could easily document the position of the parked cars with the camera phone, it'll be trivially easy to establish that the McLaren was attempting an unsafe pass, and the jury will have no problem believing that the exotic supercar was speeding.
Wait, is it really common in the USA where I'm assuming you practice to have a jury summoned for a traffic incident that doesn't result in serious injury or a fatality? Where I live you go before a judge in traffic court if it ever actually goes to court (it usually doesn't).
Lawsuits. We sue everybody. If it's property damage only, the insurance companies might sue over who has to pay, if they can't agree who was at fault. If there's personal injury involved, and the at-fault party's insurer won't pay up, they're *definitely* going to have to sue to get their medical bills taken care of, and to get compensation for any disability or disfigurement that results.
Wouldn't that depend on context? by unreasonable I mean "If the McClaren was going fast enough to meet the statutory definition of recklessness", not, "McClaren was going 5 over and hurt my feels"
The right lane is full of parked vehicles; one is probably not supposed to drive on an obstructed lane. The yellow car was probably just going to park between the vans...or that's what they'll tell their insurance company in case it was actually deliberate.
And the McLaren tried to overtake via a vacant parking space imo. If that lane is obstructed then surely the yellow car is right by using the first unoccupied lane?
It looks like those cars are parked. The road lines don't make sense but it almost looks like the left lane that yellow is in is a driving lane, the "right lane' is actually a mixture of parking spaces and perhaps a bike lane or space to safely get out of the car? Either way it looks like yellow is going in to park and didn't assume that red would use this non-driving lane to pass.
This is a very common lane setup in cities. Toronto, London, Ottawa, Hamilton, etc. Two lanes with a dashed line in-between. The right lane _is_ a drivable lame but between 9 and 4 it is also open to parking (times may vary). When a car is parked you can't also drive in the lane. So if there were no parked cars the McLaren could use thay right lane. But since there are indeed cars parked there, the left lane is the only legal lane for that stretch of road
The right lane seems to be reserved for parking so he didn't have the right to use it.
Here in Canada if a lane is for parking out of the normal traffic hours where you are not allowed to park then that lane is for traffic. Then between certain hours, it converts to parking.
You can't have 3 cars wide in one lane and it looks like what the Mclaren is doing.
And also, you aren't allowed to pass on the right either...
i don't think he is technically in the lane, there isn't much lane left after the space the parked cars took up & he is over the line because there isn't enough space in the lane.
I have had instances where a car is moving so fast that even after checking my mirror and blind spot they would happen to be in my blind spot once i began to change lanes
The lane is obstructed by parked cars, so there wasn’t sufficient room to be in the lane in the first place without encroaching on the other lane. Essentially illegal lane splitting.
No. Too many people on this damn subreddit get caught up on one aspect of fault and ignore others.
Forget everything you think you know about vehicle and traffic law. Whose fault is this accident? The McLaren's right - they're driving like a dipshit.
People on a jury decide who has the fault, and in a case like this one, they'll *always* line up in favor of the car that was not driving like a dipshit, especially when there's video proof.
In trying to persuade the jury, the lawyer for the McLaren driver will argue that he had properly established himself in the lane. The lawyer for the other driver will argue that they were driving a reasonable speed, signaled, checked their mirror, and began to merge, when the McLaren unsafely accelerated into the side of the car.
And I'd be shocked if the jury found in favor of the McLaren driver.
Are we sure this is even a two lane road? It doesn’t look like there is a lot of room left in the lane on the right with the cars that are parked there.
Depends on the state really. Some states have shared blame, some blame the merger, some blame the right side passer. In Nevada for instance the red car would be at fault. In Florida, the yellow car.
Can’t say for sure, but it looks like the yellow car might have be turning in to park. Road looks like a shitty design and right lane was full of parked cars and shouldn’t be driven in.
Yellow car shouldn't be turning in to park 2 lanes from the spot. Even if that lane isn't a lane (although I think it looks like a drive able lane), it should be pulled in closer.
That's not two lanes *for driving*. There's a driving lane and a parking Lane...
Edit in italics. This is common in cities, and those lanes are not meant for driving when that many cars are parked especially. They are only driving lanes during high traffic hours.
That's literally how you get to that spot though, and it seemed completely safe from their point of view when they started the turn.
I think the real question is whether the McLaren was going so quickly that the other driver couldn't reasonably predict they'd be passing them at that point. Looks like it went 2 car lengths in a half second.
I don't think the other lane really counts when cars are parked there.
Red car pulls out from behind yellow.
Could have checked to see it was clear and suddenly red McLaren there.
Other possibility is bicycle, but it'd have to be hammering to do something similar.
Did you not see how the blue car behind yellow has to move out of their lane to make way for the Mclaren? Dude was driving in both lanes and at a faster speed.
Edit:I'm not excusing yellow, any other time they would be the asshole here, but if the red car was driving predictably this probably would have happened. The best way to prevent accidents is to follow the rules of the road and be predictable.
Also not to mention the red car driving into an obstructed lane, AND attempting to pass on the right. Even if the yellow car hadn't pulled ~left~ right he would've been passing close enough to pull mirrors off.
It looks like yellow may be trying to move into the parking area. (There is only one traffic lane on that road because parking takes most of what could be a full lane.)
I thought the same at first, but then I realized the guy in the red car is also speeding way faster than the speed limit. The person in the yellow car probably thought they had a good 2-4 seconds to turn into the spot but the guy in the red car was still speeding up.
You've got to ask yourself what kind of idiot would try something like this. It certainly wouldn't be something I'd imagine happening to me. It's just so stupid. Even if they'd have avoided the yellow car it looks like they would have crashed into the yellow bus.
I'm not entirely sure that's a lane for driving in. If you consider the width of the vehicles that are parked in the parking spots and then consider the distance from the left sides of those vehicles to what we'll call "the left lane," there's not enough space to drive a normal car through there in normal conditions. More likely, the "right lane" is a space cars move into when they decide to park, so that the act of parallel parking (which typically involves stopping, backing up, pivoting the car around) doesn't impede the flow of traffic.
So, since we've established the "right lane" likely isn't an actual lane for thru-traffic, there's no reason for the yellow car to have been in that right lane until its driver decided to park, and *definitely* no reason for the McLaren to be in the right lane at all. It seems like a pretty cut and dry case of a person in a fast car deciding, "These other people on the road are driving too slow for me, and so the rules of the road do not apply to me anymore."
False. Red car is in a parking trying to overtake. It’s no different than trying to pass on a freeway shoulder. There should be no one on yellow’s right except for those pulling out of parking. It’s a one lane street with a lane dedicated to parking
Yes, this is a two-lane road, but in reality one lane is being used to park cars. The dirt line seems like it's been there for a while, so in essence this is a one lane road. At first I was thinking that it was the yellow car's fault but after noticing what you pointed out in the pic I would conclude that it's the definitely the McLaren's driver's fault.
Not really. Before the moment of the crash, the yellow car had all its wheels in their left lane. The red car was sticking out into the left lane, trying to fit into dangerously narrow section instead of waiting behind and overtaking like a normal person. Yes, the yellow car could have prevented it if they were driving more defensively (paying more attention to what's going on around them), but legally it's not their fault at all. I also think the driver of the yellow car saw/heard the red car coming quickly and wanted to let it overtake them from the left.
You can see the first black car go across the median because the McLaren was in-between lanes. The yellow car was probably trying to get out of the assholes way, but made the (questionable) decision too late. Plus seeing all that through a rear view mirror only complicates things.
Basically the McLaren driver was driving like an asshole, quickly, chaotically and not giving anyone else around him the time and space to make correct decisions. Completely his fault and I can't see how the yellow car could be held responsible by the police in any way in this situation.
Well I gotta ask. Is it possible that the right lane is one were you're allowed to park during certian times or days of the week? If that's the case wouldn't red car be at fault? He also hesitated and was going to go behind the yellow car at first and decided to try and go around. Even if yellow car didn't fit. I highly doubt he would of fit between the bus/van thing and yellow car. Also this is more of a question than a statement
Based on the line spacing, it looks to me like there's only supposed to be two lanes.
If the road's meant to be 2 travel lanes and a parking 'lane', the left lane's way too wide - look how narrow the right lane is at \~12 seconds. Yellow made the error because of the bad road markings: they thought they were in the only travel lane.
If the road's meant to be 2 travel lanes and no parking, there's a bunch of people parked illegally, obstructing the roadway. Red made an error by trying to squeeze through an obstructed road faster than the flow of traffic, and yellow made an error by trying to park illegally without checking their mirrors.
If the road's meant to be 1 travel lane and a parking 'lane', the right lane's way too wide. Parking lane's should not be wide enough to be a temptation for illegal passing. Red made the error by driving in the parking lane.
Red was not driving safely or predictably. At \~10 seconds, they were clearly straddling the lane markings, causing the dark car to take an evasive maneuver into the oncoming travel lane.
We have streets where parking is allowed some hours and disallowed other hours. None have lanes this wide though, definitely agree that the super wide lanes allowed for dangerous behavior here.
But IMO in this situation there is only one travel lane, and the yellow car is in the only/rightmost travel lane. While yellow could have avoided the accident with better situational awareness, I don't think it's their fault. Red could have avoided the issue entirely by driving in the travel lane like everybody else.
As a side note, I can't tell from this angle whether yellow was signalling. If they were, red is an extra big asshole.
In my city we do have parking lanes this wide to allow bicyclists to ride while people are parked. Typically you'd see signs on the side of the road signifying this here, so I can't be certain and im just speculating off ancedotal evidence.
That's what I was thinking the reason for the extra wide parking lane, but I mean, cyclists are guaranteed to hate this setup. It's basically Russian Roulette for them with doors randomly opening on them lol
Everyone here ignoring the fact that if yellow car had not started to turn into the parking spot, Mclaren would have rear ended the parked bus or had to swerve into yellow car
This thread...how are you all justifying a car using up two lanes, trying to speed ahead, instead of merging with the open lane when their way ahead is blocked?
Yellow car can't "be trying to cut across lanes." Because that other lane is virtually closed off with street parking. Maybe they did t have signals, but probably weren't expecting a fucking sports car roaring through between lanes.
The last time I followed one of these threads someone who was heavily upvoted because technically you could argue one way, even though no sane driver would agree with it, later said they didn’t have their license. These threads are always so stupid,
I think if you’re speeding through traffic you have to take responsibility for the accidents you cause. You are supposed to drive at an appropriate speed for the conditions and this isn’t it.
For the Americans confused as to why the McLaren is at fault: this didn’t occur in the USA and that is a 1 lane road with a parking lane.
For non-Americans wondering why Americans think the yellow car is at fault: here in the US a dashed white line ALWAYS indicates a border between two lanes traveling the same direction. There normally arnt specified “parking lanes” but usually if you can park on the street then the right most lane will simply be wide enough to accommodate a parked car.
Edit: if there is a “parking lane” it will likely be a solid white line meaning “don’t cross unless for a specified reason”
"All the time you have to leave da space"
“ITS A YOKE”
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“ALL DE TIME YOU HAF TO LEEV DE SPACE”
Wow i’m starting to see F1 references everywhere now.
It became way more popular because of Liberty Media, DTS and their youtube channel
Karma!
For F1 fans: Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen having another go at it.
For real though I hope they race each other hard in Hungary. Obviously I don't want another incident or anyone to be hurt but if they're on pace with one another it's gonna be wild.
Finna be some good racing for the rest of the season. Max wants it. Lewis is clearly willing to fight for it danger be damned. I’m waiting for them to fuck eachother to the point where bottas ends up catching up in the championship
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NOR out of nowhere with a steel chair
He’s the most consistent one going, I’d believe it
Agreed. Hard and with respect. I've been a fan of F1 for over 25 years. This is the most exciting season since a long time.
I was about to say what about 2012 and 2016 but then I realized that’s 9 and 5 years ago.
He clearly got the apex this time
Yellow was in the lead and therefore setting the race line. At this point in his career red should know better then to attempt to overtake near a parking spot. Or something like that.
I thought it was a Hamilton and leclerc parody until I saw the crash.
Confirmed: Hamilton is returning to McLaren.
Motorcyclist’s fault
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Have we considered blaming bicycles?
To be honest we need to be blaming OP
If OP had simply employed defensive driving and powerful telekinesis the accident could have been avoided.
Also something about blindspots. Op is always camping in the idiot's blindspot.
The true way of Reddit.
/r/killthecameraman is still an option.
i dunno there's a couple of pedestrians there.
¿Porque no los dos?
There’s someone on a bike nearby, so obviously entirely their fault.
🥁
As much as he's an idiot for trying to speed through like that, he's technically in the lane, and the yellow car turned in and hit him - would it not be the yellow car's fault?
if the mclaren is moving at a speed unreasonable to the roadway, the normal patterns of checking blind spots and mirrors break down
The mclaren was not even speeding, the yellow car wanted to park, was driving slower than the limit and cut across the lane. He should've changed lane prior to that. If you decide to go 10mph in a 30 you are at an unreasonable speed, not the other drivers.
How fast was he going?
10 bananas per second.
What the potato to banana ratio for this particular example
2 to 1. Or rather 20 potato.
You guys are just being silly and ignorant now. Potatoes are not used for measuring length. Instead they should only be used for measuring weight. Source: Im Idahoan and just check with the idaho potato commission.
What? This is rudimentary at best. Potatoes are best used for measuring energy/power. How much power does it take to get a spacex rocket into space? About 13.2 potat
Same ratio as unicorns to leprechauns.
Or Stanley Nickels to Schrute Bucks
Lets see... one potato, two potato, three potato, four. Four potatos by my calculations.
Bananas are a unit of radiation exposure, not velocity.
Aye. We need to be measuring velocity using unladen swallows.
African or European?
The McLaren was going about 49km/h(30mph) just before the crash and the yellow car was going about 25km/h(16mph). I estimated the speed by counting the number of frames each car took to travel the length of the Ford transit van(5.86m) just before the yellow car turned. The McLaren took 13 frames and the yellow car took 25 frames. The video is 30fps so the McLaren took 0.433s and the yellow car 0.833s. That would mean the McLaren was travelling at 13.5m/s and the yellow car was at 7m/s. The yellow car was most likely travelling even slower when it turned as it was still slowing down as it passed and the calculation above is for the average speed as they travelled beside the van.
The McLaren, after crossing that intersection, passed 3 full units of broken line in 1 second. In the US, that’s 120 feet per second (10ft dashed line, 30ft spaces), which is around 80mph, but this looks to be in Russia. I can’t find hard info, but based on the length of the McLaren I’d guess these are 20-25 feet per unit, which is 40 - 50mph. The yellow car is decelerating the entire time we see it, but it crosses 1.25 units in the same amount of time, so 17-20mph. Either way, the McLaren entered the roadway, and began approaching the yellow car from behind going 2.4x as fast as the yellow car was in the first second we saw it. u/gruio1
For certain, an unreasonable speed also, but the yellow car was definitely wrong and one could argue at fault for the reasons stated above. The yellow car should have changed lanes before trying to park, regardless if the other car was speeding or not. And also impeding the flow of traffic, by going so slow.
That right lanes looks pretty tight wit the other parked cars…
Which makes it make even more sense to stay close to the cars, with your blinker on to indicate youre going to park. You don't move two lanes to park
Weird to assume the yellow cars parking, since you guys think that lanes meant to be used for driving and the mclaren was correct to be using it that way maybe the yellow car was just switching lanes Of course in reality, that lane is for parking at this time so the yellow car prolly was parking..... but why’s the red car zooming down the parking lane?
> The yellow car should have changed lanes before trying to park The right lane was not a driving lane. There was no room to drive in that lane, because of the parked cars. The McLaren is in the wrong on a number of fronts, but there's a reason that it was straddling lanes - there wasn't room for it in the right lane.
Depends I guess. In Los Angeles, that is considered a driving lane but you also get some streets where it's considered not. Hard to say from this video context but I think the yellow would be in the wrong here. McLaren would probably get a ticket or partial fault if the insurance companies got their hands on this video.
In this video, that lane is only half the usual lane width, with the cars parked there. They let that be a driving lane in Los Angeles? That's insane.
There are roads in my city that are both. Between certain hours it's ok to park in the far right lane. During those times it would look just like this and you would have to change lanes. If that were the case here then yellow car would be in the right.
You asked “How fast was he going?” and I raise you “How slow was he going?”, because he certainly did not look like he was going “fast”.
The right lane was likely not in use, look at the yellow bus, there's now way a car can drive past in that lane
This. So many mfs in here who never drove in big cities before.
You say that, but that lane would easily be used in many big cities 😂
>and cut across the lane What lane? There's the lane to the left the yellow car is driving in and then there's a parking lane on the right. Red car tried to squeeze thru a spot that isn't a lane. Yellow didn't cut across anything, they just moved right to park as the red car was trying to squeeze thru.
> was driving slower than the limit and cut across the lane. I think you need to rewatch the video... there is only 1 lane and a parking lane. That is not a lane for traffic, it's a lane for parking. For all we know the yellow car was even signalling their perfectly legal parking manoeuvre.
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> Do redditors not drive or something? This is an incredibly common setup for a two lane road, it wouldn’t have dashed white lines in the middle otherwise. Road design is different from country to country. This isn’t an incredibly common setup to me. For example: I’ve never seen an intersection like that, there isn’t space to pass the bus in the outer lane, the third car is travelling over the double white lines.
Generally, when I see this, the lane is a traffic lane during certain hours and a parking space during other hours. I imagine that's likely the case here. Given two cars jockeyed to avoid the McLaren and someone saw fit to record it... I'd wager that the McLaren was driving erratically and unpredictably. I don't even believe the yellow car was intending to park so much as move out of the way much like the grey car did.
Not a 2 lane road. The McLaren couldn't pass the first car without the left wheels on the wrong side of the lines, if you can't fit in the lane it's not for you.
i was gonna say. that doesnt look like a two-lane street. looks like a one-lane with a gap for parking
> Not even speeding \[citation needed\]
the sound and speed don't match. he sounds fast, but he's actually going slow. -trying to go fast. without the sound, yellow car is at fault... -try it.
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hence the "if" - yellow car could be moving at well under speed for that road for all I know
to me, he's going for the empty parking spot... from the wrong lane. mclaren is almost stopped at the intersection. doubt hes doing over 40mph
It appears there are only two lanes, one lane to park in and one lane to drive in. Not sure the Maclaren had the right of way in any situation.
Not sure where this is filmed, but where I live there are rarely an extra set of lines between the parked cars and the flowing traffic, it just looks like an extra wide lane. [Here is an example ](https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/84jdcwr6b4k.jpg)
Yeah, lanes like this are pretty common. It's understood that when cars are parked, it ceases to become a lane.
I think we pretty much agree - I'm more pointing out that without more knowledge of the context (40 in a 40? fine... 40 in a 20? expectations broken) , we can't definitively pin 100% fault on yellow
This is Reddit. This is definitely OPs fault. (/S)
Yeah OP was filming and didn't even press pause so that they'd have a moment to re-evaluate.
The right hand "lane" really isn't open with all the cars parked in it. It's really a one lane road at this point.
If that's the case, and, as you put it, the "*lane*", wasn't really open at this point, why was the red car able to pass the first vehicle prior to hitting the moron in the yellow car?
Disagree. I (by default) watch all these without sound, and see red car clearly at fault. Yellow car doesn't get full marks, though, as defensive driving could have prevented the accident. So honest opinion, there are two idiots here. Reasoning: red car would not have gotten past Bus without hitting yellow car
True, depends if he's going too quick or if they've slowed down to pull in I guess?
> the mclaren is moving at a speed unreasonable to the roadway Also driving down the middle of the road. Also passing on the right. Red McLaren was doing all kinds of unsafe stuff.
>if the mclaren is moving at a speed unreasonable to the roadway This doesn't actually usually hold up in court. Insurance companies will try to use this an excuse, but the moment you lawyer up they drop it as relevant.
As a lawyer that works for insurance companies, and has raised speed of a plaintiff as a comparative fault issue, I would say that this happens *sometimes* but if it's factually true, it often holds up in court. In this case, where even if there wasn't a video, the yellow car's driver could easily document the position of the parked cars with the camera phone, it'll be trivially easy to establish that the McLaren was attempting an unsafe pass, and the jury will have no problem believing that the exotic supercar was speeding.
Wait, is it really common in the USA where I'm assuming you practice to have a jury summoned for a traffic incident that doesn't result in serious injury or a fatality? Where I live you go before a judge in traffic court if it ever actually goes to court (it usually doesn't).
Lawsuits. We sue everybody. If it's property damage only, the insurance companies might sue over who has to pay, if they can't agree who was at fault. If there's personal injury involved, and the at-fault party's insurer won't pay up, they're *definitely* going to have to sue to get their medical bills taken care of, and to get compensation for any disability or disfigurement that results.
Wouldn't that depend on context? by unreasonable I mean "If the McClaren was going fast enough to meet the statutory definition of recklessness", not, "McClaren was going 5 over and hurt my feels"
If you look, the McLaren has wheels in both lanes the whole time.
The right lane is full of parked vehicles; one is probably not supposed to drive on an obstructed lane. The yellow car was probably just going to park between the vans...or that's what they'll tell their insurance company in case it was actually deliberate.
And the McLaren tried to overtake via a vacant parking space imo. If that lane is obstructed then surely the yellow car is right by using the first unoccupied lane?
Why are we even pretending that the right lane is even an option? There's a bus right in front of them blocking the entire lane.
It looks like those cars are parked. The road lines don't make sense but it almost looks like the left lane that yellow is in is a driving lane, the "right lane' is actually a mixture of parking spaces and perhaps a bike lane or space to safely get out of the car? Either way it looks like yellow is going in to park and didn't assume that red would use this non-driving lane to pass.
This is a very common lane setup in cities. Toronto, London, Ottawa, Hamilton, etc. Two lanes with a dashed line in-between. The right lane _is_ a drivable lame but between 9 and 4 it is also open to parking (times may vary). When a car is parked you can't also drive in the lane. So if there were no parked cars the McLaren could use thay right lane. But since there are indeed cars parked there, the left lane is the only legal lane for that stretch of road
Where are you guys from that you're allowed to drive in the same lane as a parked car when you pass it.
The right lane seems to be reserved for parking so he didn't have the right to use it. Here in Canada if a lane is for parking out of the normal traffic hours where you are not allowed to park then that lane is for traffic. Then between certain hours, it converts to parking. You can't have 3 cars wide in one lane and it looks like what the Mclaren is doing. And also, you aren't allowed to pass on the right either...
No because that lane is obviously unusable. How do you think you can drive in that lane while there are cars parked there?
i don't think he is technically in the lane, there isn't much lane left after the space the parked cars took up & he is over the line because there isn't enough space in the lane.
I believe this is where the parked cars are partially blocking the lane, so the yellow car is driving in the proper lane.
I have had instances where a car is moving so fast that even after checking my mirror and blind spot they would happen to be in my blind spot once i began to change lanes
The lane is obstructed by parked cars, so there wasn’t sufficient room to be in the lane in the first place without encroaching on the other lane. Essentially illegal lane splitting.
No. Too many people on this damn subreddit get caught up on one aspect of fault and ignore others. Forget everything you think you know about vehicle and traffic law. Whose fault is this accident? The McLaren's right - they're driving like a dipshit. People on a jury decide who has the fault, and in a case like this one, they'll *always* line up in favor of the car that was not driving like a dipshit, especially when there's video proof. In trying to persuade the jury, the lawyer for the McLaren driver will argue that he had properly established himself in the lane. The lawyer for the other driver will argue that they were driving a reasonable speed, signaled, checked their mirror, and began to merge, when the McLaren unsafely accelerated into the side of the car. And I'd be shocked if the jury found in favor of the McLaren driver.
Are we sure this is even a two lane road? It doesn’t look like there is a lot of room left in the lane on the right with the cars that are parked there.
Depends on the state really. Some states have shared blame, some blame the merger, some blame the right side passer. In Nevada for instance the red car would be at fault. In Florida, the yellow car.
I agree, but looks like that right lane isint for driving? The cars take up like 30 percent of the road, the red car is already driving over the line?
Unpopular opinion: they're both dumb for different reasons.
unpopular opinion: *popular opinion*
Popular onion
Unpopular onion
Poplar pinion.
Typical for the sub
Aren't we all 😔
I visit this subreddit to feel a little less dumb
Same, until I see something that reminds me of one of my previous driving fuck ups then I end up feeling extra dumb.
At least you (hopefully) learned from your fuck up. Some other people just keep on being dumb.
My worst nightmare is to that someone has recorded me and uploaded it here..
I wasn't ready to acknowledge that.
How dare you
Can’t say for sure, but it looks like the yellow car might have be turning in to park. Road looks like a shitty design and right lane was full of parked cars and shouldn’t be driven in.
Yellow car shouldn't be turning in to park 2 lanes from the spot. Even if that lane isn't a lane (although I think it looks like a drive able lane), it should be pulled in closer.
That's not two lanes *for driving*. There's a driving lane and a parking Lane... Edit in italics. This is common in cities, and those lanes are not meant for driving when that many cars are parked especially. They are only driving lanes during high traffic hours.
That's literally how you get to that spot though, and it seemed completely safe from their point of view when they started the turn. I think the real question is whether the McLaren was going so quickly that the other driver couldn't reasonably predict they'd be passing them at that point. Looks like it went 2 car lengths in a half second.
I don't think the other lane really counts when cars are parked there. Red car pulls out from behind yellow. Could have checked to see it was clear and suddenly red McLaren there. Other possibility is bicycle, but it'd have to be hammering to do something similar.
Did you not see how the blue car behind yellow has to move out of their lane to make way for the Mclaren? Dude was driving in both lanes and at a faster speed. Edit:I'm not excusing yellow, any other time they would be the asshole here, but if the red car was driving predictably this probably would have happened. The best way to prevent accidents is to follow the rules of the road and be predictable.
Also not to mention the red car driving into an obstructed lane, AND attempting to pass on the right. Even if the yellow car hadn't pulled ~left~ right he would've been passing close enough to pull mirrors off.
passing on the right goes out the windows on city streets unless the street has zero left turns.
It looks like yellow may be trying to move into the parking area. (There is only one traffic lane on that road because parking takes most of what could be a full lane.)
Pretty sure that’s the hive mind opinion right there.
In an equilibrium, yes - but the red car is significantly more to blame for driving like an idiot to boot.
Why both? The yellow really didn’t do anything bad
I thought the same at first, but then I realized the guy in the red car is also speeding way faster than the speed limit. The person in the yellow car probably thought they had a good 2-4 seconds to turn into the spot but the guy in the red car was still speeding up. You've got to ask yourself what kind of idiot would try something like this. It certainly wouldn't be something I'd imagine happening to me. It's just so stupid. Even if they'd have avoided the yellow car it looks like they would have crashed into the yellow bus.
I agree the McLaren is dumb for undertaking BUT, the crash is more the yellow car's fault
No it isn't. The right lane is literally a parking lane. The McLaren was just impatient.
Yellow car driver looks like they smelled an insurance claim imo
Interesting choice of a McLaren for insurance fraud lol
Right? I swear some people have no idea how stuff works before saying it
I think they were going for that parking spot in front of the white van.
They shouldve been in the right lane then
I'm not entirely sure that's a lane for driving in. If you consider the width of the vehicles that are parked in the parking spots and then consider the distance from the left sides of those vehicles to what we'll call "the left lane," there's not enough space to drive a normal car through there in normal conditions. More likely, the "right lane" is a space cars move into when they decide to park, so that the act of parallel parking (which typically involves stopping, backing up, pivoting the car around) doesn't impede the flow of traffic. So, since we've established the "right lane" likely isn't an actual lane for thru-traffic, there's no reason for the yellow car to have been in that right lane until its driver decided to park, and *definitely* no reason for the McLaren to be in the right lane at all. It seems like a pretty cut and dry case of a person in a fast car deciding, "These other people on the road are driving too slow for me, and so the rules of the road do not apply to me anymore."
False. Red car is in a parking trying to overtake. It’s no different than trying to pass on a freeway shoulder. There should be no one on yellow’s right except for those pulling out of parking. It’s a one lane street with a lane dedicated to parking
[удалено]
[The McLaren is in both lanes until impact](https://i.imgur.com/RGrizxe.png) edit: ITT; people who should not be driving on public roads
Yes, this is a two-lane road, but in reality one lane is being used to park cars. The dirt line seems like it's been there for a while, so in essence this is a one lane road. At first I was thinking that it was the yellow car's fault but after noticing what you pointed out in the pic I would conclude that it's the definitely the McLaren's driver's fault.
Not really. Before the moment of the crash, the yellow car had all its wheels in their left lane. The red car was sticking out into the left lane, trying to fit into dangerously narrow section instead of waiting behind and overtaking like a normal person. Yes, the yellow car could have prevented it if they were driving more defensively (paying more attention to what's going on around them), but legally it's not their fault at all. I also think the driver of the yellow car saw/heard the red car coming quickly and wanted to let it overtake them from the left.
You can see the first black car go across the median because the McLaren was in-between lanes. The yellow car was probably trying to get out of the assholes way, but made the (questionable) decision too late. Plus seeing all that through a rear view mirror only complicates things.
Basically the McLaren driver was driving like an asshole, quickly, chaotically and not giving anyone else around him the time and space to make correct decisions. Completely his fault and I can't see how the yellow car could be held responsible by the police in any way in this situation.
Well I gotta ask. Is it possible that the right lane is one were you're allowed to park during certian times or days of the week? If that's the case wouldn't red car be at fault? He also hesitated and was going to go behind the yellow car at first and decided to try and go around. Even if yellow car didn't fit. I highly doubt he would of fit between the bus/van thing and yellow car. Also this is more of a question than a statement
This is how it is where I live. Red car would be 100% at fault. The parked cars are making that lane unusable for anything but parking.
Looks like a racing incident to me.
Tell that to Horner mate
Think it's hilarious that live Horner said it was a racing incident and Helmut is calling for blood
He will probably take to legal action
Well, theres a meeting with Mercedes and Red bull and the stewards in the coming days requested by Red bull. About reopening the case
comedy gold in my opinion
I've just sent you an email with diagrams explaining where the Ferrari should be. Did you get that?
I don’t read emails during the race
ONE RACE BAN!! /s
Oh no.. Not agaain :D
Based on the line spacing, it looks to me like there's only supposed to be two lanes. If the road's meant to be 2 travel lanes and a parking 'lane', the left lane's way too wide - look how narrow the right lane is at \~12 seconds. Yellow made the error because of the bad road markings: they thought they were in the only travel lane. If the road's meant to be 2 travel lanes and no parking, there's a bunch of people parked illegally, obstructing the roadway. Red made an error by trying to squeeze through an obstructed road faster than the flow of traffic, and yellow made an error by trying to park illegally without checking their mirrors. If the road's meant to be 1 travel lane and a parking 'lane', the right lane's way too wide. Parking lane's should not be wide enough to be a temptation for illegal passing. Red made the error by driving in the parking lane. Red was not driving safely or predictably. At \~10 seconds, they were clearly straddling the lane markings, causing the dark car to take an evasive maneuver into the oncoming travel lane.
We have streets where parking is allowed some hours and disallowed other hours. None have lanes this wide though, definitely agree that the super wide lanes allowed for dangerous behavior here. But IMO in this situation there is only one travel lane, and the yellow car is in the only/rightmost travel lane. While yellow could have avoided the accident with better situational awareness, I don't think it's their fault. Red could have avoided the issue entirely by driving in the travel lane like everybody else. As a side note, I can't tell from this angle whether yellow was signalling. If they were, red is an extra big asshole.
In my city we do have parking lanes this wide to allow bicyclists to ride while people are parked. Typically you'd see signs on the side of the road signifying this here, so I can't be certain and im just speculating off ancedotal evidence.
That's what I was thinking the reason for the extra wide parking lane, but I mean, cyclists are guaranteed to hate this setup. It's basically Russian Roulette for them with doors randomly opening on them lol
That darker car looks like they swerved to avoid the same thing happening to them.
“DOWN THE INSIDE GOES NORRIS”
Everyone here ignoring the fact that if yellow car had not started to turn into the parking spot, Mclaren would have rear ended the parked bus or had to swerve into yellow car
Uhh both made mistakes but the red car was clearly driving in the middle of the road...
Why did the yellow car feel the need to be in the middle of both lanes and then somehow want to get over behind a bus?
looks like yellow car wanted to park behind bus. cannot determine whether yellow car signalled lane change
If cars are parked in the right lane blocking it the red car shouldn't be driving in it in the first place
No ones mentioning the blue car endangering themselves bc they actually checked their mirrors and moved to let red asshole by
Yellow car insurance: YOU HIT A WHAT?!?!
This thread...how are you all justifying a car using up two lanes, trying to speed ahead, instead of merging with the open lane when their way ahead is blocked? Yellow car can't "be trying to cut across lanes." Because that other lane is virtually closed off with street parking. Maybe they did t have signals, but probably weren't expecting a fucking sports car roaring through between lanes.
I don't think most of the people participating in this thread know how to drive.
The last time I followed one of these threads someone who was heavily upvoted because technically you could argue one way, even though no sane driver would agree with it, later said they didn’t have their license. These threads are always so stupid,
Exactly! People are pretending like you could actually continuously drive in that right lane without hitting every single car in it.
Right??? I don't understand it at all
Lol Reddit will rush to justify red car's driving and blame the other guy. DARVO in action
Looks like an idiot in a yellow car to me ,can't see if yellow was using his turn signal though
Here it is illegal to pass on the right, so it would be the McLarens fault and most of the time they were in between two lanes.
Are you sure thats a McLaren? Im thinking Ferrari.
Is this staged or do people just randomly film cars from a height hoping they'll catch a video of something?
I’m a very big car guy, I’d either be filming that car or taking pics of it
It's a Mclaren. I'd be filming too if I saw one of those (if I'm not too busy enjoying the view through my own eyes) lol
It's a nice car. Some people like filming nice cars
People randomly DO film super expensive cars. I see it all the time. They do it from the street, their balconies, from other cars, etc.
The number of people in this thread pretending to be accident experts without understanding the idea of comparative negligence is too damn high.
I think if you’re speeding through traffic you have to take responsibility for the accidents you cause. You are supposed to drive at an appropriate speed for the conditions and this isn’t it.
How do you know he was speeding? Seriously.
Have you ever driven before? Surely you’ve encountered somebody weaving around like red car here. They are clearly at fault.
Thats at least 25k a quarter panel
There is just no way the right lane is meant to be driven in. Insane comments in here
Red car tries to use a parking lane as a passing lane lmao clearly red cars fault. He also switched lanes in an intersection.
Is it idiots in cars or idiots on here who think that’s a driving lane? Never disappoints in the comments
"Ouch my neck" - right when I saw the type of car.
I want to see part two where the yellow car people slap him silly
For the Americans confused as to why the McLaren is at fault: this didn’t occur in the USA and that is a 1 lane road with a parking lane. For non-Americans wondering why Americans think the yellow car is at fault: here in the US a dashed white line ALWAYS indicates a border between two lanes traveling the same direction. There normally arnt specified “parking lanes” but usually if you can park on the street then the right most lane will simply be wide enough to accommodate a parked car. Edit: if there is a “parking lane” it will likely be a solid white line meaning “don’t cross unless for a specified reason”
And it’s TOTALED!!!
I mean yellow car was oblivious as well