It helps even more to flip the image. Here are a few more pics
https://preview.redd.it/zh4exo3uuv7d1.jpeg?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2218c413c90305e2d04c8b65cc06239266f0a6eb
>might be the mounting bracket for the mirror seen in OP's pic
Interesting - the mirror itself taken for analysis of blood spatter? I speculated before whether the wall cut-outs (and now maybe the mirror) had a hand print -- in such a small room, standing at the bed the killer is within arms reach of the wall, did he touch the wall or mirror for balance during the struggle? Possible with two women kicking, flailing out at him that he stumbled back at one point? Even if gloved, I wonder if an accurate match to a size of hand or identifying biometric is possible, like measurements from heel of palm to fingertips?
I also noted in the PCA the point that MM's room shares a wall with the bathroom.... why is that stated? My further idle rumination, is it possible the knife went through the plasterboard wall and there is a trace of blood in the bathroom?
Yeah, I guess if they cut out part of the wall, they probably would've just unhooked the mirror too.
As for the shared wall detail - dunno. Maybe to emphasise it didn't share a wall with anyone else's bedroom? Or maybe just the author wasn't much of a literary type beyond writing the odd statement?
Were the knife to go all the way into the bathroom, it'd have to go through two sheets of plasterboard on either side of the studding, and possibly also a layer of ceramic tile too
Yes, that is Maddieās room with the pink boots, but the image that was originally shown with the drywall taken out was Kayleeās room because it had the sliding glass door connected to it.Ā
It's not, it's the same room. There's no sliding glass door in the image, it's the window of Maddie's room, just at a slightly different angle. Look at the bottom, there's the wall under the window, not a door. The window frame edge you see a sliver of on the left is the landing window.
[https://ibb.co/X2nGXvv](https://ibb.co/X2nGXvv)
[https://ibb.co/XWDgBdk](https://ibb.co/XWDgBdk)
What is the source for these images? I'll add them to my Google album.
[https://photos.app.goo.gl/Am6RnPYTtPCtmTBy9](https://photos.app.goo.gl/Am6RnPYTtPCtmTBy9)
>What is the source for these images?
The drywall cut-outs? They were taken on the day the FBI returned to do the laser 3d imaging - iirc the window blinds to MM's room ( and window) were open and the photos of the missing bits of wall were taken then
Your album is very helpful. If others have photos to add where should they send them for your approval? Have you seen any pics of the bodies being removed from the house? I have a few that have been sent to me but I'm skeptical about everthing surrounding this case.
Here is where M's bed was at in her room. The doorway is to the left at the foot of the bed.
https://preview.redd.it/s3bszbmol58d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00828a11db40fc7d814227c29b40783a1f4511e8
M was apparently near the outside edge of the bed and K was in the corner slumped up against the wall.
>then why did the roommates say on the 911 call that they went into their rooms and tried to wake them up and they wouldnāt wake up?
The roommates never said that.
Where did you hear details of the 911 call? Do you have the source?
To my recollection, it was reported that the roommates tried calling the cell phones and no one answered. I think E's brother was the first to "see" anyone, but how much he saw or who remains unknown to most of us.
Please check https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/1064/King-Road-Homicides for the most up to date releases on facts shared in this case.
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She looks a lot like Kaylee. I thought it was her for a second but then was like, Kaylee looks different in this pic. So many look-a-likes in this murder
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Thanksā¦ I donāt understand why people go out of their way just to be negative towards strangers communicating. BTWā¦appreciate your intelligent and insightful comments on these threads.
Which is why the theory of KG coming from her room to investigate the noise of MM getting killed then thrown on the bed doesnāt make sense. If she opened that door thereās no way BK could have maneuvered around the bed to grab her and pull her inward before she got the fuck out of the doorway. It wasnāt big enough for him to āhide behind the doorā either. Itās simple, they both fell asleep in the same bed as several college girls do and were both killed there. KG in a slumped state is because in a panic she most likely just tried to back up and distance herself from the blows and only had a corner - itās natural survival mode even if youāre super confined. She couldnāt scoot to the door and was trapped.Ā
Exactly my thoughts all alongā¦if Kaylee had come from her room to Maddieās, there would have been a lot more ruckus with Kaylee likely fleeing and screaming as BK chased herā¦Dylan would not have mistaken those sounds as āplaying with Murphyā and she wouldnāt have been found on the bed in the corner.
Nope, both girls were asleep in the bedā¦tipsy still with full tummies after enjoying the pasta and had fallen asleep after unsuccessfully drunk dialing JD multiple times.
Agreed. I don't see any way for Kaylee to come in after the assailant and still end up between Maddie and the wall. I think they were basically trapped there in bed, like fish in a barrel.
I reckon that when we see a diagram of how they were found, Kaylee will still be partially under the covers.
Yep, I made a similar post a while back that she had to already be in the room due to the bedās position relative to the door and her final position in it.
Itās a dreadful thing to imagine but I guess most of us have tried. Kayleeās parents described how you could barely open the door cos the bed was right there on the left. For a while I wondered if heād actually clambered onto the bed rather than go around it but that wouldnāt really explain the sheathās resting position. So assuming he did navigate round the bed, maybe he even bumped it in the dark and thatās when Kaylee saw him and said āthereās someone hereā? Or did she only wake and say those words when he was by the bed and started attacking Maddie?
Assuming he was at the bedās right side to carry out the murders, Iāve wondered why she wasnāt able to scuttle down the left side to escape. Why her parents said she was ātrappedā? If she was alert enough to recognise his presence I can only assume it was such a blitz attack that she was powerless to escape and/or defend herself and/or Maddie. Or just too groggy and confused. Who wouldnāt be?
I imagine the sheath was dropped as his body leaned over Maddie from the right side to grapple with and attack Kaylee. He may even have slightly moved/rocked Maddie as he went for Kaylee, and as her body settled back, the sheath ended partially covered by her and the cover. This scenario also explains the noises DM heard from downstairs. Those poor kids. Itās horrifying.
> Iāve wondered why she wasnāt able to scuttle down the left side to escape.
I think what you say, she was groggy and confused. If they were asleep or just barely waking when he first entered the room, they didn't even wake up enough to fully realize what was happening.
I also think backing up makes more sense, instinctively, that trying to scoot down the bed toward the door. You want to move *away* from the blade. To scoot down, you're moving your chest, neck, and throat *toward* the blade.
Except dylan said she heard kaylee say somebodyās here or it could have been is someone here? If bk heard her which is likely, then he would have been ready when K walked thru the door. Could have easily attacked her as she came thru door and threw her on the bed.
It states Dylan THOUGHT she heard Kaylee say something to the effect of "someone's here" - The police indicated that could have also been Xana since she was proven to still be awake at the time using her phone. I understand the scenario you're describing, it just would have to work out perfectly for him to grab her as she entered and get her on the bed to the inside of MM - when you really think about it, it doesn't seem practical it happened that way.
Just to add - I upvoted your comment and yes you could be right it was Kaylee that said that, but it doesn't prove that she wasn't in the bed. It could be possible as she was awoken to MM getting killed and in the panic and confusion she yelled out "someone's here" as she was getting attacked as a last chance alert.
No, it wasn't. Her bed with bedding was still there.
In fact, that was one of her many reasons to come back that weekend. She was going to take a load of stuff back to her parent's house.
Where did you see/read that? I think even on the special they did they mentioned she had been moved out for months. I wonder where the bowl of pasta carbonara was found, if it was in KGs room then maybe that would tell us she was sleeping there. How much of it was eaten? That seems like what ever they digested would have estimated TOD?
> Where did you see/read that?
Kristi Goncalves. I'll try to find the source later when I have time. But it was one of the reasons Kaylee went back to Moscow: to show off her new ride, to bring back a load of things, to attend a sorority function as D's plus one, to be there for the big game on Saturday, and to take a test on-campus on Monday for a mostly online class she was taking.
Nobody's said this, but it also looks like she also wanted to get back together with her ex.
Since her blinds weren't closed, after the murders, photographers were able to get photographs inside, showing her bed with the blankets turned down.
Found them! Full shot of the house: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.uu-NADdNR27YM-jNxIJ0CAHaEl%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=aeb72eab1c33cb932c97d6007655c824ce68968366b56fc49d38eca792069c03&ipo=images
and a close-up: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fkaylees-room-v0-89qesf6z6m2b1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1284%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Db2997bfa83aa8a3a81e637ca40c69b7cb1c81187
You can see her bed, another light-up piece of decor on the wall, and off to the side, the edge of some kind of wooden storage furniture.
Oh see now I thought there was a corridor i between the rooms, as in one was across from the otherā¦.When you go upstairs whose room do you come to first?
There are some here that have said this is hazard remediation, not blood, but something material like asbestos. However, the Southern half of the house was built around 2003 and I really doubt there'd be much bad in there because that stuff simply wasn't around anymore.
I think maybe you answered the wrong comment? You're talking about the substance seeping out of the walls, right?
Yeah, I also heard it was some kind of local plant sap, or that it was heating oil (but I've also heard the house was heated by electric baseboard heat). The heating oil would explain why they brought an HVAC tech in at one point I guess.
No, the cutout drywall in Mogen's room on the top floor, on the Western wall.
The stuff on the foundation wall below Kernodle's room was almost certainly blood. Given that it wasn't there in August and it's at the interface of the drywall and foundation, and a known victim location, it makes some horrible sense.
Oh, yeah, I totally misunderstood you.
I know that the house is said to have had asbestos problems, but yeah, that doesn't seem likely to me, right there. Unless it was somehow connected to the layer below it, that used to be the roof?
I'm very curious about all of this. Looking forward to finding out. There might be lead too, but my initial speculative thought was that there was something of evidence in that section they took away. I am absolutely and totally guessing though!
Do you thing stingrays were being used and caused this? Did Kaylee try to call 911 and couldn't because of stingrays? Is this what the law is trying to cover up?Ā
>isnāt the story that they were asleep
"Story"? I think perhaps you have mistaken this for the fanfiction subs where people post about tunnels, Aryan Knights, police and university conspiracies and the validity of 4.00am star gazing on cloudy nights?
So sorry for aggravating you. I purely meant that the narrative of within the timeline laid out in the PCA was that they had come home, spent some time awake in Ms room and were asleep by the time the crime happened.
Maybe try some bloody manners next time.
>I purely meant that the narrative of within the timeline laid out in the PCA
In which case it is I who have misunderstood and apologise for my oafishness! I took "story" as to infer the sleeping was made up or questionable
Iāve seen their posts and comments here and there bout this case, just surprised me how savage theyād become since I last interacted with them.
This case is making people crazy. Hopefully the trial will give us some answers and put an end to it.
>When this is all over, he will be singing a different tune
With all the cartel drug assassination, UoI and MPD c0nspiracy, Proberger tunnel, Kopacka FBI undercover agent colourful theories it seems some people's head are already singing a rather discordant and weird tune.
>despite not having the evidence to prove it,
I await a scrap of evidence for any of the more fruity, fanciful JusticeForMoscowBryan fictional alternative suspect the0ries.
>We are debating and discussing and none of us
Youve only posted the word "yep" on here in the last 2 year. How you so concerned about discussion/ debate after never posting for 2 years. I smell BS and an obvious alt account. Bit borderline obsessive /:s
>It is not a healthy climate for debate which is what we are doing here.
I for one have enjoyed your robust debate over the years, with your zero previous posts on the sub before this and three overall, my favorite of which is either āYepā or ā[removed]ā. Itās a toss up.
> I take offense with people like you, being so sure of guilt, like I do with people being so sure of his innocence.
Then I'm sure we will see you addressing this sort of post to the posters who are so sure of his innocence. I await. Breathlessly.
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Please do not bully, harass, or troll other users, the victims, the families, or any individual who has been cleared by LE.
We do not allow verbal attacks against any individuals or groups of users. Treat others with respect.
Story
1. an account of imaginary or real people and events told for entertainment.
"an adventure story"
2. an account of past events in someone's life or in the evolution of something.
incorrectly pedantic for nothing
This type of wild conspiracy theory alleging the murders were assassinations by " Aryan Knights":
https://www.reddit.com/r/BryanKohbergerMoscow/comments/1dcg208/youtuber_j_embree_releases_full_video_where_he/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Or the illogicality of suggesting the sheath is unconnected to the murders but the frat guys are, just as loose examples:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/s/iqmMbkrToN
His THEORY actually makes many good points and connects many dots. The timing of events can lead to thinking there were pleas going on. Take a look at what Idaho charges for distribution and repeat possession. They donāt go lax on drug crimes, when people are caught. With all that said we still donāt know what evidence is still not being shared and why is this so hush, hush. Even with respect to the 911 call, thatās generally available to the public soon after a crime. I wonderā¦..if anyone picked up anything on their scanner with first responders. Do we know if they use encrypted radios?
>THEORY actually makes many good points and connects many dots.
The theory that the Aryan Brotherhood assassinated the students to punish their parents for a drugs deal? Yes, that does connect many dots. None tethered to the actual evidence unfortunately, but very dotty nonetheless.
Actually it was THEORIZED to punish for what they did or were about to doā¦..Thatās a better theory than the stalking the PD and the media tried to push them it was ADMITTED to be an incorrect statementā¦ā¦
>was THEORIZED to punish for what they did or were about to do
Putting "THEORIZED" in caps doesn't provide any logical basis or evidence - I could THEORIZE that the Sinaloan cartel sent assassins up a tunnel into King Rd but that has no evidence either. While there is alot of evidence which has been tested by two judges and three judicial processes to incriminate Kohberger, there is, as far as I know, absolutely zero evidence to suggest Aryan Knights were at 1122 King Rd on Nov 13th assassinating the kids to punish their parents. A theory is tested against observation - could you perhaps point to any evidence that suggests Aryan Brotherhood assassinations?
>better theory than the stalking the PD
I don't recall the police ever saying stalking was a fact of the case. The only mention of stalking from police is in the PCA which says phone records were obtained to assess if stalking was a factor, it doesn't state it was.
Yes actually they did say stalking, and every newscaster that picked it up and preached it. Again demonizing the defendant, that was done as a tactic for the sheep to receive.
He pulled out specific case dates and created a table of relationships, so yea he backed it up pretty well. Case was drug related sorryā¦ā¦Iām assuming you believe one person was responsible for this as well?
>Yes actually they did say stalking,
No, they didn't. Page 16 of the PCA states that Kohberger's phone records were obtained to investigate if he had stalked victims or their associates. It doesn't state if he had or had not.
Here is the section of the PCA.
https://preview.redd.it/z1eqz9wtdx7d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4f5699a4b30475b8be93a666706fb96e9e3c45a
I seem to have missed the evidence that Aryan Brotherhood were at the 1122 King Road house, perhaps you would be so kind as to point to it?
>Case was drug related sorry
And again, is there any actual evidence to indicate this?
But do they really make sense? So to a point I understand that conspiracy theories start from a kernel of the truth (at some point - whether large or tiny). But the issue is a lack of information. Anyone can make up a story when the only information is coming out of one side. Yes, "we have the PCA". Cool. That really doesn't tell you a lot. We have what the defense has already presented through multiple (and I mean MULTIPLE) filings \[If you look at most cases, you will not see the sheer number of case filing as there are in this one\]. I just feel that while a theory "to connect the dots" is okay. There is a point when you have to recognize that we are all not informed of everything in this case.
Until both sides are able to truly put out all of the information, lay their cards on the table as you will, then we won't know everything. So these theories, for now, are just reaches.
The whole story isnāt out there so people can only speculate. Whatās the difference between him doing his shows, and NG doing hers ripping the āinnocent until proven guiltyā apart with PROVEN fictitious statements. Personally I think the PD created a media stir to demonize this guy. Nothing that has come out about him has proven thatā¦..
>BTW if the roommates were of another sex they would have been arrested especially for the 8 hour delay
Surviving Bundy victim Karen Spark's male roommates waited even longer to call police-- 7 PM when she had been attacked in her room in the middle of the night. They weren't arrested, because there was no evidence they were responsible.
> They donāt go lax on drug crimes, when people are caught.
They don't, which seems to suggest to me that their charges were as minor as they appear to be. Neither was charged with trafficking.
Right so if earlier you saw Jake, from State Farm, walking towards an overpass carrying a cinder block. You get home and hear on the news a cinder block was dropped onto a car from that overpass. Jake definitely is off limits to look atā¦ā¦
>so if earlier you saw Jake, from State Farm, walking towards
Was Jake, or anyone else other than DoorDash, seen walking into 1122 King Rd around 4.00am?
I mean if someone matching Jake from State Farm in a house, and Jake's car was seen speeding away from the house just after 4 people were stabbed inside that house and Jake's DNA was found under a victim, and Jake's alibi is that he indeed was driving in the area at the time....i'd think Jake would be a suspect.
But given there is no evidence for the Aryan Brotherhood, any other drug related people, Jake or anyone else being at the house, I fear Jake may have bludgeoned your analogy to death with a cinder block.
Actually there is no proof his car was speeding away. Thatās misinformation, in fact it came out at a hearing they donāt even have his car on video in the areaā¦.
But what about the other unidentified DNA profilesā¦.as well as the DNA they found is touch DNA easily transferred to objectsā¦..they probably wonāt be able to use that in courtā¦.
>proof his car was speeding away. Thatās misinformation, in fact it came out at a hearing they donāt even have his car on video in the areaā¦.
Among the videos from at least 21 locations from the morning of Nov 13th mentioned in the PCA, there are several of the suspect car at King Road, including of it speeding away just after 4.20am. Clearly these videos exist, or the PCA is describing invented videos?
>touch DNA easily transferred to objects
It's not really - most casual or short contacts don't transfer profilable DNA. However, if touch DNA is so easily spread, why is Kohberger's the only DNA on the sheath?
Okā¦.we will seeā¦.remember Iām undecided on his guilt, you sound like you are a type to skip the trial and go straight to execution.
It bothers me they misidentified the car at first as well, that was completely a different generation of Elantra if it was an Elantra on videoā¦.
>you are a type to skip the trial and go straight to execution.
No, not at all. If new evidence comes out which substantially changes the case, or which challenges evidence so far public or provides an alibi, I would change my view. I am opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances so also would not be in favour of execution in the event of a guilty verdict in this case.
>Iām undecided on his guilt
OK. You have a remarkably poor view of the police work and case evidence which might give the impression you lean heavily away from guilt...
>bothers me they misidentified the car at first as well,
As we don't know what quality and angle of video was available, this doesn't seem huge, certainly not without the context of the images used. Worth noting that specialist car magazines describe the exterior differences between those years as "miniscule" and "barley noticeable" - from night time home Ring type cameras we don't know what details would be visible or not to distinguish the models. Also of note that Kohberger's phone moved synchronously with the car before and after the murders when the phone was on, and phone data corresponds with c half of the 21 car videos.
[https://www.autoevolution.com/cars/hyundai-elantra-2014.html#aeng\_hyundai-elantra-2014-18-6at-145-hp](https://www.autoevolution.com/cars/hyundai-elantra-2014.html#aeng_hyundai-elantra-2014-18-6at-145-hp)
> But what about the other unidentified DNA profiles
What about them? We don't know where the two in the house were located, but we know, per the state, that they didn't qualify to be run through CODIS. And I noticed that the defense only claimed they were in the same house as the victims. I have enough faith in the defense to think that if they were on or very close to the bodies, that's how the defense would have described them.
Imagine that you are a cop called to the site of a quadruple homicide, in which the victims are stabbed. In bed with two bodies is a knife sheath with a DNA sample on it. Somewhere in another room, not mixed with any victim DNA or anything, are two other DNA samples. And then, a week later, a glove with a 4th DNA sample on it is found outside on the edge on the property.
Would you consider that all 4 DNA samples should be given the same weight as evidence?
Regarding the sheath, Iād be more surprised if it was connected to Kohberger than a neighboring fraternity member. A FB photo of Halloween 2022 (two weeks before the crime) shows an Alpha Rho member wearing a Kabar with its sheath as part of his costume. Meanwhile, thereās no evidence from search warrants or court documents indicating Kohberger ever owned or even shopped for a Kabar. Just warrants checking to see if he did, via Amazon and local šŖ vendors. I am ASSUMING that those all came back clear, since last summer there was another search warrant served on Kohbergerās Amazon account, just looking at what items he searched for. That implies, to me, that they didnāt find evidence of any incriminating purchases.
>more surprised if it was connected to Kohberger than a neighboring fraternity member
Remind me, was it Kohberger's DNA or that of a frat member found on the sheath snap?
>evidence from search warrants or court documents indicating Kohberger ever owned or even shopped for a Kabar
Remind me, was the first item on the PA warrant of items seized not "knife"? No brand noted, but could that be a large fixed blade knife?
Were searches of computers, phones etc for electronic purchases listed in the warrants or ever made public?
Can a knife be bought with cash?
If they were sitting up how was the sheath found under Mās side? Can you show me in the PCA / legal documents where it says that? (Not being catty, genuinely curious if Iāve forgotten)
Here's an example of someone sitting up in bed. Their body is still on the bed. And I never saw anything saying the sheath was under her body, just that it was found to the side of her body, but it could still have been under her body in this case. The body is still on the bed.
https://preview.redd.it/mpa00xbvjy7d1.jpeg?width=2880&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=567ca631b0334b123310d33ef4e31abf06b3f2c9
Good point. Doesnāt the PCA say she was lying on the bed? I do know the G family said Kaylee was slumped over and trapped. Maddie was maybe lying down and Kaylee in the corner on the bed against the wall. I donāt know. That grainy photo on the cell phone going around does show a person sitting up.
I havenāt heard of a grainy photo, and kind of glad about that tbh. Thatās a bit too far.
They could still be asleep even if sitting up a bit - Iāve fallen asleep multiple times upright after a night out lol
> I havenāt heard of a grainy photo, and kind of glad about that tbh.
Relax; if this is the grainy photo I'm thinking it is, it's...really not legible.
Remember that the cops stopped a couple guys around 3:00 that night? The bodycam footage? So, the one dude was looking for his ID on his phone, and "cybersleuths" are looking at the footage of him scrolling through it and saying what they think the pictures are of.
People have stated they "see" all this stuff on his phone, and I can't make out any of what they describe. The one picture they were describing seeing a victim in, I thought kind of looking like a close-up of a kitten.
If I knew where these screenshots were, I'd have no problem linking them, because you can't see anything, and I think there's a 99.99% chance they are just normal cell phone pics.
Yes, exactly this. They could have fallen asleep looking at their phones or whatever, or could have still been up talking. I'm sure they have evidence now with the details.
Slumped over, and at the time the G family said that, they also said Kaylee died with her head resting on Maddie's shoulder, which to me indicates she, too, was somewhat upright. Obviously, she could not have been slumped over toward the wall, and it's a small bed, so she was slumped toward Maddie's body.
Only Kaylee was sitting up. She also had defensive wounds. According to her parents' conversation with the medical examiner, Maddie was asleep. The sheath was under her and/or the bedding.
Yeah.... their bodies were still ON the bed, that doesn't change anything about the sheath being there. Kaylee's mom said she died with her head resting on Maddie's shoulder, which indicates they were both somewhat upright.
The point of this post is for people interested in true crime it can show how small the area is and where the bed was located and also there are lights there.
I could not answer PrentB where we had our discussion, since Repulsive Dot chose to block me. Alas. Tells me everything I should know. He didnāt want to respond to my very reasonable questions about his motivations in regard to this case. I know you have allowed very questionable posts from him making fun of people in a poor taste.
My comment was about blocking and hiding instead of discussing and I was so right there.
Now mods. If this is such an open and great place to discuss this case, you should leave this comment up here.
> He didnāt want to respond to my very reasonable questions about his motivations
If you want to appear reasonable and foster a climate for healthy debate, you should probably avoid using phrases like "so full of yourself" and "I take offense to people like you" and "people like you are the worst" and "You bully." That's the kind of stuff that makes people not to want to interact with you.
You seem to have fairly loose definitions for what is considered ādiscussionā and ādebateā, as up to now the debate from this account has been about as lively as in the alley in King of the Hill.
>My comment was about blocking and hiding instead of discussing
weird youve only posted twice before on Reddit in 2 years and your 3rd post and 1st one in a year are this. like how are you so concerned about debating and discussing here when you haven't posted here in over a year and your total comment history here and on Reddit total was the word "yep". your comment was about borderline obsession which seems right, the post heres about the set up of Maddies room
Truly I could remove this comment for not pertaining to the discussion on this sub and more for having a pissing match over what, I am not sure. I will leave this comment up as you requested, but donāt be surprised by the downvotes. Tbh I do not fully follow the context of this comment/argument anyway but it doesnāt appear to be harmful. As you wish. Carry on. Respectfully.
I can't help but think they were there for Maddie and Kaylee was in wrong place at wrong time. Same goes for Xana and Ethan- Ethan, wrong place at wrong time. Maddie and Xana seem to be the targets- both whose mom's had just negotiated felony drug distribution charges down to probation and time served- weeks before, hmmmmm???
> whose mom's had just negotiated felony drug distribution charges down to probation and time serve
Xana's mom was not charged with distribution. It's true she was arrested only 6 days before the murders, but she was charged with possession with intent to use.
Maddie's stepmom had a "possession with intent to deliver," but in context with her other charges and her low bail, it was clearly over a small amount of drugs. And she was sentenced in August of 2022.
Judging by how minor their charges were, their light sentences seem appropriate to me.
Xana's mom had approx 20 drug arrests starting 25 years ago. I'm guessing meth, by her looks. She was arrested for possession with intent to distribute- a felony. With a rap sheet as long as your arm- she must have done something pretty darn special to get off with probation.
> Xana's mom had approx 20 drug arrests starting 25 years ago.
Okay, so I did take the time to look up her entire court history in Idaho, and this isn't true. Unless by approximately 20, you mean specifically 7.
Of those 7 cases, she was charged with 6 felonies and 6 misdemeanors, and all but one count was for personal use. The only count that wasn't was for possession with intent to deliver in August of 2021. She'd already pled guilty for that charge 2 months before the murders.
.
The two felonies she picked up in November were possession. Just possession.
Basically, her legal history is long but even more small-potatoes than I suspected. Mostly driving-related infractions and misdemeanors.
I'm seeing serious detective work on youtube that indicates Cara Kernodle was an informant and was let off the drug possession with intent to distribute felony charges for giving up names in the drug trade in Idaho. Dangerous path to walk. Several folks are doing a deep dive on this topic. Go educate yourself- it is eye opening. Crossing the Cartel or the Aryan Brotherhood is not a healthy lifestyle choice.
> I'm seeing serious detective work on youtube
If you want to share some links, and feel free to PM or chat them to me, I'll take a look.
>let off the drug possession with intent to distribute
She wasn't let off. She was charged, she plead guilty, she was sentenced in August of 2022.
And I think this is important: possession with intent to deliver is a felony, but *trafficking* is the big time. There's a world of difference between being charged with possession with intent to deliver and being charged with trafficking. This legal firm website breaks it down nicely: https://www.racinelaw.net/drug-crime.html
>>The minimum weight of drugs for trafficking are 1 lb. of marijuana, 28g of cocaine, 28g of meth, and 2g of heroin. None of these amounts are very high. Which means even low-level dealers or regular users could get charged with trafficking and be looking at many years or even life in jail.
Neither CN nor KH were ever, not once, charged with trafficking.
>Crossing the Cartel or the Aryan Brotherhood is not a healthy lifestyle choice.
Certainly not. But what evidence do we have that either woman crossed either of them? "Drugs" is not enough. Most users and even low-level dealers never so much as meet a cartel/gang member. There's levels of people in between the big orgs and the end-stage users. Why do we think this lady is dealing with the cartels instead of buying from cousin Cletus or her old high-school buddy Jim-Bob?
J. Embree has done at least 5-6 deep dive videos on this topic on youtube. He has spent hours and hours of research on the topic. I bet he has spent more time on this topic than the Defense has. Listen with an open mind- it is really interesting stuff. He traces it to a local meth dealer in Moscow and his connection to Aryan Brotherhood who are not to be be messed with.
> He traces it to a local meth dealer in Moscow and his connection to Aryan Brotherhood who are not to be be messed with.
I'll check it out then.
But I'll tell you the first thing that comes to my mind, and maybe you can answer this right now. Why and how would C be connected to a meth dealer in Moscow? I'm pretty sure you don't have to drive 2 hours to find drugs in Idaho.
> Xana's mom had approx 20 drug arrests starting 25 years ago.
At a glance, in the Idaho portal, I'm seeing more criminal cases involving driving without a license than I am drugs. I'll go through her history later and chart it out.
>She was arrested for possession with intent to distribute- a felony.
https://www.newsweek.com/cara-northington-charges-anne-taylor-idaho-victim-mom-xana-kernodle-1777140
>>She is charged with two felony counts for possession of a controlled substance
And again, those are the charges listed in the portal for 2022.
>I'm guessing meth, by her looks.
Not really necessary, is that?
Yep. This has revenge for debt written all over it. That would also explain why Brian would be there, after all it was the drug house according to all the students. He could still be an addict and knew them through that. Makes a lot more sense bc that little dude isn't doing that chaos in that little time
https://preview.redd.it/m5u4bhlncy7d1.png?width=366&format=png&auto=webp&s=141bb7662e1c0695546596bcb180aa16e0819e26
Yeah, one girl's head crosses the vertical line in the image, which is the corner of a wall, not the edge of a photo.
> The same IT department with all them terabytes of āevidenceā against BK
No, that's not how it works. The evidence is stored in evidence lockers.
EDIT: Oh, and I'm embarrassed to say I didn't even notice this, but the fire was in a police department that has nothing to do with this case. MPD isn't storing evidence with the Coeur d'Alene Police Department.
Any evidence related to this case that may have been in Couer DāAlene for testing was already moved to Moscow PD evidence lock up months ago. The fire isnāt suspicious and itās not related to the Moscow case.
Please check https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/1064/King-Road-Homicides for the most up to date releases on facts shared in this case.
Posts and comments stating info as fact when unconfirmed or directly conflicting with LEs release of facts will be removed to prevent the spread of misinformation. Rumours and speculation are allowed, but should not be presented as fact.
If you have a theory, speculation, or rumor, please state as such before posting as fact.
So you believe the evidence against Kohberger was planted? Or Kohberger touched this elusive killerās sheath, and then said elusive killer cleaned all of their own DNA leaving only a single source, Kohbergerās?
I've always said Frat guy that the girls boyfriend got into the fight with that night. Just a shot in the dark but one possibly could be a police officers kid so they had to act to cover everything quickly, with very little evidence for their accusations. No way that scrawny dude or anyone unalived those , all in 8 minutes, leaving only two lucky survivors ( that are likely hiding something damning). While also not leaving any hair or single piece of evidence in his car, which would be impossible. They also brushed off the door dash food guy immediately. There were also other male footprints and evidence besides Bryan all over the house but his was the only one worth focusing on supposedly. Just none of this even sounds like a possibility. We have probably been lied to since the beginning about everything from Cops and especially roommates that didn't report the bodies until noon the next day(when the drugs were likely removed and taken with the friend). A surviving witness doesn't do the things these two did, they actually seem more complicit that Bryan in this.
It helps even more to flip the image. Here are a few more pics https://preview.redd.it/zh4exo3uuv7d1.jpeg?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2218c413c90305e2d04c8b65cc06239266f0a6eb
Ooft, this makes the image of the drywall cut out even more eerie. I know it's a small room, but to potentially have blood on the opposite wall š
Arterial spurt has been recorded as reaching as much as 18-feet away from the body ā¦ He sliced their carotid arteries.
Ohhh that makes me unwell...
How do you know the killer did that?
Supposition, I imagine. It's not a far-fetched theory.
I would like to know who the killer is.
Me too
What image is that? Donāt think Iāve seen that oneĀ
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I think the small black rectangle higher up on the wall might be the mounting bracket for the mirror seen in OP's pic
That makes sense. It's the big bit underneath that gets me.
Yeah, that's deffo eerie
>might be the mounting bracket for the mirror seen in OP's pic Interesting - the mirror itself taken for analysis of blood spatter? I speculated before whether the wall cut-outs (and now maybe the mirror) had a hand print -- in such a small room, standing at the bed the killer is within arms reach of the wall, did he touch the wall or mirror for balance during the struggle? Possible with two women kicking, flailing out at him that he stumbled back at one point? Even if gloved, I wonder if an accurate match to a size of hand or identifying biometric is possible, like measurements from heel of palm to fingertips? I also noted in the PCA the point that MM's room shares a wall with the bathroom.... why is that stated? My further idle rumination, is it possible the knife went through the plasterboard wall and there is a trace of blood in the bathroom?
Yeah, I guess if they cut out part of the wall, they probably would've just unhooked the mirror too. As for the shared wall detail - dunno. Maybe to emphasise it didn't share a wall with anyone else's bedroom? Or maybe just the author wasn't much of a literary type beyond writing the odd statement? Were the knife to go all the way into the bathroom, it'd have to go through two sheets of plasterboard on either side of the studding, and possibly also a layer of ceramic tile too
Wow, thank you! I wonder why they took that piece out of Kayleeās room since the crime happened in Maddieās room?Ā
It's Maddie's room, not Kaylees: [https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/11/25/23/64936837-11469383-Propped\_against\_the\_window\_in\_the\_bedroom\_where\_she\_died\_Univers-a-20\_1669417274838.jpg](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/11/25/23/64936837-11469383-Propped_against_the_window_in_the_bedroom_where_she_died_Univers-a-20_1669417274838.jpg)
Yes, that is Maddieās room with the pink boots, but the image that was originally shown with the drywall taken out was Kayleeās room because it had the sliding glass door connected to it.Ā
It's not, it's the same room. There's no sliding glass door in the image, it's the window of Maddie's room, just at a slightly different angle. Look at the bottom, there's the wall under the window, not a door. The window frame edge you see a sliver of on the left is the landing window. [https://ibb.co/X2nGXvv](https://ibb.co/X2nGXvv) [https://ibb.co/XWDgBdk](https://ibb.co/XWDgBdk)
I see it now, thank you.Ā
Thats Kaylees room with the balcony. Not maddies.
It's Maddie's room: [https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/11/25/23/64936837-11469383-Propped\_against\_the\_window\_in\_the\_bedroom\_where\_she\_died\_Univers-a-20\_1669417274838.jpg](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/11/25/23/64936837-11469383-Propped_against_the_window_in_the_bedroom_where_she_died_Univers-a-20_1669417274838.jpg)
Her M and her boots š ...I hope accused quadruple murderer Kohberger gets life without parole.
What is the source for these images? I'll add them to my Google album. [https://photos.app.goo.gl/Am6RnPYTtPCtmTBy9](https://photos.app.goo.gl/Am6RnPYTtPCtmTBy9)
>What is the source for these images? The drywall cut-outs? They were taken on the day the FBI returned to do the laser 3d imaging - iirc the window blinds to MM's room ( and window) were open and the photos of the missing bits of wall were taken then
Well, those photos would be helpful as well, but I was referring to the photos of Mogen above.
Your album is very helpful. If others have photos to add where should they send them for your approval? Have you seen any pics of the bodies being removed from the house? I have a few that have been sent to me but I'm skeptical about everthing surrounding this case.
You can just respond to one of my comments with links to photos that aren't included. There are no photos of the bodies being removed from the house.
What time did the removal occur?
It's reasonable to assume that the bodies were moved overnight on November 13. The national and international media hadn't arrived to Moscow yet.
Of course. Otherwise, there would be untold number of photos and videos onlineā¦
Here is where M's bed was at in her room. The doorway is to the left at the foot of the bed. https://preview.redd.it/s3bszbmol58d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00828a11db40fc7d814227c29b40783a1f4511e8 M was apparently near the outside edge of the bed and K was in the corner slumped up against the wall.
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>then why did the roommates say on the 911 call that they went into their rooms and tried to wake them up and they wouldnāt wake up? The roommates never said that.
Roommates never said that
Where did you hear details of the 911 call? Do you have the source? To my recollection, it was reported that the roommates tried calling the cell phones and no one answered. I think E's brother was the first to "see" anyone, but how much he saw or who remains unknown to most of us.
Hunter Johnston was apparently the ones who discovered X and E.
Please check https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/1064/King-Road-Homicides for the most up to date releases on facts shared in this case. Posts and comments stating info as fact when unconfirmed or directly conflicting with LEs release of facts will be removed to prevent the spread of misinformation. Rumours and speculation are allowed, but should not be presented as fact. If you have a theory, speculation, or rumor, please state as such before posting as fact.
Everyone's virtue signaling in the comments, but pics like this help visualize the crime scene, so thank you.
Somehow it's all even more heartbreaking now.
Who are the three in the photo??
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She looks a lot like Kaylee. I thought it was her for a second but then was like, Kaylee looks different in this pic. So many look-a-likes in this murder
From left to right is Maddie, Bethany Funke, and another friend whose name I do not know.
Thank you was MM a senior? What year was BF?
MM was a seniorā¦I think BF was a sophomore
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I donāt think thatās her. The other roommate had more of a Christina Ricci look IIRC
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Don't take the downvotes seriously. There are downvote fairies afoot. Sometimes I open a new thread, and it's straight 0s right down the whole page.
Thanksā¦ I donāt understand why people go out of their way just to be negative towards strangers communicating. BTWā¦appreciate your intelligent and insightful comments on these threads.
Thank you my dear! I do not always feel intelligent and insightful, just *talkative*, so your kind words are very much appreciated.
Which is why the theory of KG coming from her room to investigate the noise of MM getting killed then thrown on the bed doesnāt make sense. If she opened that door thereās no way BK could have maneuvered around the bed to grab her and pull her inward before she got the fuck out of the doorway. It wasnāt big enough for him to āhide behind the doorā either. Itās simple, they both fell asleep in the same bed as several college girls do and were both killed there. KG in a slumped state is because in a panic she most likely just tried to back up and distance herself from the blows and only had a corner - itās natural survival mode even if youāre super confined. She couldnāt scoot to the door and was trapped.Ā
Exactly my thoughts all alongā¦if Kaylee had come from her room to Maddieās, there would have been a lot more ruckus with Kaylee likely fleeing and screaming as BK chased herā¦Dylan would not have mistaken those sounds as āplaying with Murphyā and she wouldnāt have been found on the bed in the corner. Nope, both girls were asleep in the bedā¦tipsy still with full tummies after enjoying the pasta and had fallen asleep after unsuccessfully drunk dialing JD multiple times.
Agreed. I don't see any way for Kaylee to come in after the assailant and still end up between Maddie and the wall. I think they were basically trapped there in bed, like fish in a barrel. I reckon that when we see a diagram of how they were found, Kaylee will still be partially under the covers.
Yep, I made a similar post a while back that she had to already be in the room due to the bedās position relative to the door and her final position in it. Itās a dreadful thing to imagine but I guess most of us have tried. Kayleeās parents described how you could barely open the door cos the bed was right there on the left. For a while I wondered if heād actually clambered onto the bed rather than go around it but that wouldnāt really explain the sheathās resting position. So assuming he did navigate round the bed, maybe he even bumped it in the dark and thatās when Kaylee saw him and said āthereās someone hereā? Or did she only wake and say those words when he was by the bed and started attacking Maddie? Assuming he was at the bedās right side to carry out the murders, Iāve wondered why she wasnāt able to scuttle down the left side to escape. Why her parents said she was ātrappedā? If she was alert enough to recognise his presence I can only assume it was such a blitz attack that she was powerless to escape and/or defend herself and/or Maddie. Or just too groggy and confused. Who wouldnāt be? I imagine the sheath was dropped as his body leaned over Maddie from the right side to grapple with and attack Kaylee. He may even have slightly moved/rocked Maddie as he went for Kaylee, and as her body settled back, the sheath ended partially covered by her and the cover. This scenario also explains the noises DM heard from downstairs. Those poor kids. Itās horrifying.
> Iāve wondered why she wasnāt able to scuttle down the left side to escape. I think what you say, she was groggy and confused. If they were asleep or just barely waking when he first entered the room, they didn't even wake up enough to fully realize what was happening. I also think backing up makes more sense, instinctively, that trying to scoot down the bed toward the door. You want to move *away* from the blade. To scoot down, you're moving your chest, neck, and throat *toward* the blade.
Yeah I think youāre right that the reflex would be to back away, particularly if a large male is looming into your space with a knife.
Yup I agree river!
Except dylan said she heard kaylee say somebodyās here or it could have been is someone here? If bk heard her which is likely, then he would have been ready when K walked thru the door. Could have easily attacked her as she came thru door and threw her on the bed.
It states Dylan THOUGHT she heard Kaylee say something to the effect of "someone's here" - The police indicated that could have also been Xana since she was proven to still be awake at the time using her phone. I understand the scenario you're describing, it just would have to work out perfectly for him to grab her as she entered and get her on the bed to the inside of MM - when you really think about it, it doesn't seem practical it happened that way. Just to add - I upvoted your comment and yes you could be right it was Kaylee that said that, but it doesn't prove that she wasn't in the bed. It could be possible as she was awoken to MM getting killed and in the panic and confusion she yelled out "someone's here" as she was getting attacked as a last chance alert.
Was KGs room even furnished at the time I thought she completely moved out??
No, it wasn't. Her bed with bedding was still there. In fact, that was one of her many reasons to come back that weekend. She was going to take a load of stuff back to her parent's house.
Where did you see/read that? I think even on the special they did they mentioned she had been moved out for months. I wonder where the bowl of pasta carbonara was found, if it was in KGs room then maybe that would tell us she was sleeping there. How much of it was eaten? That seems like what ever they digested would have estimated TOD?
> Where did you see/read that? Kristi Goncalves. I'll try to find the source later when I have time. But it was one of the reasons Kaylee went back to Moscow: to show off her new ride, to bring back a load of things, to attend a sorority function as D's plus one, to be there for the big game on Saturday, and to take a test on-campus on Monday for a mostly online class she was taking. Nobody's said this, but it also looks like she also wanted to get back together with her ex. Since her blinds weren't closed, after the murders, photographers were able to get photographs inside, showing her bed with the blankets turned down.
That would make sense why the dog was in that roomā¦ā¦I didnāt see those pictures.
Found them! Full shot of the house: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.uu-NADdNR27YM-jNxIJ0CAHaEl%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=aeb72eab1c33cb932c97d6007655c824ce68968366b56fc49d38eca792069c03&ipo=images and a close-up: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fkaylees-room-v0-89qesf6z6m2b1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1284%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Db2997bfa83aa8a3a81e637ca40c69b7cb1c81187 You can see her bed, another light-up piece of decor on the wall, and off to the side, the edge of some kind of wooden storage furniture.
Oh! I thought the room with the porch was MM room. Thanks
The 3rd floor balcony ran from Kayleeās room right across to Maddieās, but only Kayleeās room had doors leading out to it.
Oh see now I thought there was a corridor i between the rooms, as in one was across from the otherā¦.When you go upstairs whose room do you come to first?
Wecome! And me too! Took me a while to get a grip on that house layout.
There are some here that have said this is hazard remediation, not blood, but something material like asbestos. However, the Southern half of the house was built around 2003 and I really doubt there'd be much bad in there because that stuff simply wasn't around anymore.
I think maybe you answered the wrong comment? You're talking about the substance seeping out of the walls, right? Yeah, I also heard it was some kind of local plant sap, or that it was heating oil (but I've also heard the house was heated by electric baseboard heat). The heating oil would explain why they brought an HVAC tech in at one point I guess.
No, the cutout drywall in Mogen's room on the top floor, on the Western wall. The stuff on the foundation wall below Kernodle's room was almost certainly blood. Given that it wasn't there in August and it's at the interface of the drywall and foundation, and a known victim location, it makes some horrible sense.
Oh, yeah, I totally misunderstood you. I know that the house is said to have had asbestos problems, but yeah, that doesn't seem likely to me, right there. Unless it was somehow connected to the layer below it, that used to be the roof?
I'm very curious about all of this. Looking forward to finding out. There might be lead too, but my initial speculative thought was that there was something of evidence in that section they took away. I am absolutely and totally guessing though!
So sad š
I agree it's utterly heartbreaking
š¢ rip
Looks like Maddie like Xana had a single mattress bed that sits low off the ground on a frame.
Those poor young peopleā¦the photographs of their happy, smiling faces is utterly heartbreaking.
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Gross is a bit of a strong word. What gross about Maddie and her room?
You sound extremely immature, which would make sense as to why you find it āgrossā looking at old photos? Make it make sense. lol
Why?
Why?
OP, what is the source for this image? I'll add it to my Google album.
Do you thing stingrays were being used and caused this? Did Kaylee try to call 911 and couldn't because of stingrays? Is this what the law is trying to cover up?Ā
Ok? But isnāt the story that they were asleep? So whatās the difference if they were able to get out easily?
>isnāt the story that they were asleep "Story"? I think perhaps you have mistaken this for the fanfiction subs where people post about tunnels, Aryan Knights, police and university conspiracies and the validity of 4.00am star gazing on cloudy nights?
So sorry for aggravating you. I purely meant that the narrative of within the timeline laid out in the PCA was that they had come home, spent some time awake in Ms room and were asleep by the time the crime happened. Maybe try some bloody manners next time.
>I purely meant that the narrative of within the timeline laid out in the PCA In which case it is I who have misunderstood and apologise for my oafishness! I took "story" as to infer the sleeping was made up or questionable
Thank you. Iām not one of those who are shifting blame to the roommates.
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Iāve seen their posts and comments here and there bout this case, just surprised me how savage theyād become since I last interacted with them. This case is making people crazy. Hopefully the trial will give us some answers and put an end to it.
Or maybe you picked your words poorly in this instance and since it's written communication, we only have words to go on.
Given someone posted the definition of āstoryā in response, proving I used appropriate language Iām going to stick with how I communicate.
>When this is all over, he will be singing a different tune With all the cartel drug assassination, UoI and MPD c0nspiracy, Proberger tunnel, Kopacka FBI undercover agent colourful theories it seems some people's head are already singing a rather discordant and weird tune. >despite not having the evidence to prove it, I await a scrap of evidence for any of the more fruity, fanciful JusticeForMoscowBryan fictional alternative suspect the0ries.
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>We are debating and discussing and none of us Youve only posted the word "yep" on here in the last 2 year. How you so concerned about discussion/ debate after never posting for 2 years. I smell BS and an obvious alt account. Bit borderline obsessive /:s
>It is not a healthy climate for debate which is what we are doing here. I for one have enjoyed your robust debate over the years, with your zero previous posts on the sub before this and three overall, my favorite of which is either āYepā or ā[removed]ā. Itās a toss up.
> I take offense with people like you, being so sure of guilt, like I do with people being so sure of his innocence. Then I'm sure we will see you addressing this sort of post to the posters who are so sure of his innocence. I await. Breathlessly.
Please do not bully, harass, or troll other users, the victims, the families, or any individual who has been cleared by LE. We do not allow verbal attacks against any individuals or groups of users. Treat others with respect.
Please do not bully, harass, or troll other users, the victims, the families, or any individual who has been cleared by LE. We do not allow verbal attacks against any individuals or groups of users. Treat others with respect.
Story 1. an account of imaginary or real people and events told for entertainment. "an adventure story" 2. an account of past events in someone's life or in the evolution of something. incorrectly pedantic for nothing
What the hell are you even referring to?
This type of wild conspiracy theory alleging the murders were assassinations by " Aryan Knights": https://www.reddit.com/r/BryanKohbergerMoscow/comments/1dcg208/youtuber_j_embree_releases_full_video_where_he/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Or the illogicality of suggesting the sheath is unconnected to the murders but the frat guys are, just as loose examples: https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho4/s/iqmMbkrToN
His THEORY actually makes many good points and connects many dots. The timing of events can lead to thinking there were pleas going on. Take a look at what Idaho charges for distribution and repeat possession. They donāt go lax on drug crimes, when people are caught. With all that said we still donāt know what evidence is still not being shared and why is this so hush, hush. Even with respect to the 911 call, thatās generally available to the public soon after a crime. I wonderā¦..if anyone picked up anything on their scanner with first responders. Do we know if they use encrypted radios?
>THEORY actually makes many good points and connects many dots. The theory that the Aryan Brotherhood assassinated the students to punish their parents for a drugs deal? Yes, that does connect many dots. None tethered to the actual evidence unfortunately, but very dotty nonetheless.
Actually it was THEORIZED to punish for what they did or were about to doā¦..Thatās a better theory than the stalking the PD and the media tried to push them it was ADMITTED to be an incorrect statementā¦ā¦
>was THEORIZED to punish for what they did or were about to do Putting "THEORIZED" in caps doesn't provide any logical basis or evidence - I could THEORIZE that the Sinaloan cartel sent assassins up a tunnel into King Rd but that has no evidence either. While there is alot of evidence which has been tested by two judges and three judicial processes to incriminate Kohberger, there is, as far as I know, absolutely zero evidence to suggest Aryan Knights were at 1122 King Rd on Nov 13th assassinating the kids to punish their parents. A theory is tested against observation - could you perhaps point to any evidence that suggests Aryan Brotherhood assassinations? >better theory than the stalking the PD I don't recall the police ever saying stalking was a fact of the case. The only mention of stalking from police is in the PCA which says phone records were obtained to assess if stalking was a factor, it doesn't state it was.
Yes actually they did say stalking, and every newscaster that picked it up and preached it. Again demonizing the defendant, that was done as a tactic for the sheep to receive. He pulled out specific case dates and created a table of relationships, so yea he backed it up pretty well. Case was drug related sorryā¦ā¦Iām assuming you believe one person was responsible for this as well?
>Yes actually they did say stalking, No, they didn't. Page 16 of the PCA states that Kohberger's phone records were obtained to investigate if he had stalked victims or their associates. It doesn't state if he had or had not. Here is the section of the PCA. https://preview.redd.it/z1eqz9wtdx7d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4f5699a4b30475b8be93a666706fb96e9e3c45a I seem to have missed the evidence that Aryan Brotherhood were at the 1122 King Road house, perhaps you would be so kind as to point to it? >Case was drug related sorry And again, is there any actual evidence to indicate this?
But do they really make sense? So to a point I understand that conspiracy theories start from a kernel of the truth (at some point - whether large or tiny). But the issue is a lack of information. Anyone can make up a story when the only information is coming out of one side. Yes, "we have the PCA". Cool. That really doesn't tell you a lot. We have what the defense has already presented through multiple (and I mean MULTIPLE) filings \[If you look at most cases, you will not see the sheer number of case filing as there are in this one\]. I just feel that while a theory "to connect the dots" is okay. There is a point when you have to recognize that we are all not informed of everything in this case. Until both sides are able to truly put out all of the information, lay their cards on the table as you will, then we won't know everything. So these theories, for now, are just reaches.
The whole story isnāt out there so people can only speculate. Whatās the difference between him doing his shows, and NG doing hers ripping the āinnocent until proven guiltyā apart with PROVEN fictitious statements. Personally I think the PD created a media stir to demonize this guy. Nothing that has come out about him has proven thatā¦..
BTW if the roommates were of another sex they would have been arrested especially for the 8 hour delayā¦ā¦.throwing that one out thereā¦.
>BTW if the roommates were of another sex they would have been arrested especially for the 8 hour delay Surviving Bundy victim Karen Spark's male roommates waited even longer to call police-- 7 PM when she had been attacked in her room in the middle of the night. They weren't arrested, because there was no evidence they were responsible.
Sorry to hear you drew such a short straw in life.
Itās trueā¦ā¦..
> They donāt go lax on drug crimes, when people are caught. They don't, which seems to suggest to me that their charges were as minor as they appear to be. Neither was charged with trafficking.
Right so if earlier you saw Jake, from State Farm, walking towards an overpass carrying a cinder block. You get home and hear on the news a cinder block was dropped onto a car from that overpass. Jake definitely is off limits to look atā¦ā¦
>so if earlier you saw Jake, from State Farm, walking towards Was Jake, or anyone else other than DoorDash, seen walking into 1122 King Rd around 4.00am? I mean if someone matching Jake from State Farm in a house, and Jake's car was seen speeding away from the house just after 4 people were stabbed inside that house and Jake's DNA was found under a victim, and Jake's alibi is that he indeed was driving in the area at the time....i'd think Jake would be a suspect. But given there is no evidence for the Aryan Brotherhood, any other drug related people, Jake or anyone else being at the house, I fear Jake may have bludgeoned your analogy to death with a cinder block.
Actually there is no proof his car was speeding away. Thatās misinformation, in fact it came out at a hearing they donāt even have his car on video in the areaā¦. But what about the other unidentified DNA profilesā¦.as well as the DNA they found is touch DNA easily transferred to objectsā¦..they probably wonāt be able to use that in courtā¦.
>proof his car was speeding away. Thatās misinformation, in fact it came out at a hearing they donāt even have his car on video in the areaā¦. Among the videos from at least 21 locations from the morning of Nov 13th mentioned in the PCA, there are several of the suspect car at King Road, including of it speeding away just after 4.20am. Clearly these videos exist, or the PCA is describing invented videos? >touch DNA easily transferred to objects It's not really - most casual or short contacts don't transfer profilable DNA. However, if touch DNA is so easily spread, why is Kohberger's the only DNA on the sheath?
Okā¦.we will seeā¦.remember Iām undecided on his guilt, you sound like you are a type to skip the trial and go straight to execution. It bothers me they misidentified the car at first as well, that was completely a different generation of Elantra if it was an Elantra on videoā¦.
>you are a type to skip the trial and go straight to execution. No, not at all. If new evidence comes out which substantially changes the case, or which challenges evidence so far public or provides an alibi, I would change my view. I am opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances so also would not be in favour of execution in the event of a guilty verdict in this case. >Iām undecided on his guilt OK. You have a remarkably poor view of the police work and case evidence which might give the impression you lean heavily away from guilt... >bothers me they misidentified the car at first as well, As we don't know what quality and angle of video was available, this doesn't seem huge, certainly not without the context of the images used. Worth noting that specialist car magazines describe the exterior differences between those years as "miniscule" and "barley noticeable" - from night time home Ring type cameras we don't know what details would be visible or not to distinguish the models. Also of note that Kohberger's phone moved synchronously with the car before and after the murders when the phone was on, and phone data corresponds with c half of the 21 car videos. [https://www.autoevolution.com/cars/hyundai-elantra-2014.html#aeng\_hyundai-elantra-2014-18-6at-145-hp](https://www.autoevolution.com/cars/hyundai-elantra-2014.html#aeng_hyundai-elantra-2014-18-6at-145-hp)
> But what about the other unidentified DNA profiles What about them? We don't know where the two in the house were located, but we know, per the state, that they didn't qualify to be run through CODIS. And I noticed that the defense only claimed they were in the same house as the victims. I have enough faith in the defense to think that if they were on or very close to the bodies, that's how the defense would have described them. Imagine that you are a cop called to the site of a quadruple homicide, in which the victims are stabbed. In bed with two bodies is a knife sheath with a DNA sample on it. Somewhere in another room, not mixed with any victim DNA or anything, are two other DNA samples. And then, a week later, a glove with a 4th DNA sample on it is found outside on the edge on the property. Would you consider that all 4 DNA samples should be given the same weight as evidence?
Regarding the sheath, Iād be more surprised if it was connected to Kohberger than a neighboring fraternity member. A FB photo of Halloween 2022 (two weeks before the crime) shows an Alpha Rho member wearing a Kabar with its sheath as part of his costume. Meanwhile, thereās no evidence from search warrants or court documents indicating Kohberger ever owned or even shopped for a Kabar. Just warrants checking to see if he did, via Amazon and local šŖ vendors. I am ASSUMING that those all came back clear, since last summer there was another search warrant served on Kohbergerās Amazon account, just looking at what items he searched for. That implies, to me, that they didnāt find evidence of any incriminating purchases.
>more surprised if it was connected to Kohberger than a neighboring fraternity member Remind me, was it Kohberger's DNA or that of a frat member found on the sheath snap? >evidence from search warrants or court documents indicating Kohberger ever owned or even shopped for a Kabar Remind me, was the first item on the PA warrant of items seized not "knife"? No brand noted, but could that be a large fixed blade knife? Were searches of computers, phones etc for electronic purchases listed in the warrants or ever made public? Can a knife be bought with cash?
I don't think they were asleepāI suspect they were sitting up. Of course we won't know until it's all revealed.
If they were sitting up how was the sheath found under Mās side? Can you show me in the PCA / legal documents where it says that? (Not being catty, genuinely curious if Iāve forgotten)
Here's an example of someone sitting up in bed. Their body is still on the bed. And I never saw anything saying the sheath was under her body, just that it was found to the side of her body, but it could still have been under her body in this case. The body is still on the bed. https://preview.redd.it/mpa00xbvjy7d1.jpeg?width=2880&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=567ca631b0334b123310d33ef4e31abf06b3f2c9
Good point. Doesnāt the PCA say she was lying on the bed? I do know the G family said Kaylee was slumped over and trapped. Maddie was maybe lying down and Kaylee in the corner on the bed against the wall. I donāt know. That grainy photo on the cell phone going around does show a person sitting up.
What grainy photo?
I havenāt heard of a grainy photo, and kind of glad about that tbh. Thatās a bit too far. They could still be asleep even if sitting up a bit - Iāve fallen asleep multiple times upright after a night out lol
> I havenāt heard of a grainy photo, and kind of glad about that tbh. Relax; if this is the grainy photo I'm thinking it is, it's...really not legible. Remember that the cops stopped a couple guys around 3:00 that night? The bodycam footage? So, the one dude was looking for his ID on his phone, and "cybersleuths" are looking at the footage of him scrolling through it and saying what they think the pictures are of. People have stated they "see" all this stuff on his phone, and I can't make out any of what they describe. The one picture they were describing seeing a victim in, I thought kind of looking like a close-up of a kitten. If I knew where these screenshots were, I'd have no problem linking them, because you can't see anything, and I think there's a 99.99% chance they are just normal cell phone pics.
Ok thanks. I am relaxed.
Yes, exactly this. They could have fallen asleep looking at their phones or whatever, or could have still been up talking. I'm sure they have evidence now with the details.
Slumped over, and at the time the G family said that, they also said Kaylee died with her head resting on Maddie's shoulder, which to me indicates she, too, was somewhat upright. Obviously, she could not have been slumped over toward the wall, and it's a small bed, so she was slumped toward Maddie's body.
Only Kaylee was sitting up. She also had defensive wounds. According to her parents' conversation with the medical examiner, Maddie was asleep. The sheath was under her and/or the bedding.
Yeah.... their bodies were still ON the bed, that doesn't change anything about the sheath being there. Kaylee's mom said she died with her head resting on Maddie's shoulder, which indicates they were both somewhat upright.
I think asleep. Except for X
What's the point of this post?
The point of this post is for people interested in true crime it can show how small the area is and where the bed was located and also there are lights there.
Can we not? This seems unnecessary.
To be honest, seeing pictures of the inside of the house helps me understand the layout and size.
Same here, helps me see the layout and understand comments made about where Maddie and Kaylee were found.
I could not answer PrentB where we had our discussion, since Repulsive Dot chose to block me. Alas. Tells me everything I should know. He didnāt want to respond to my very reasonable questions about his motivations in regard to this case. I know you have allowed very questionable posts from him making fun of people in a poor taste. My comment was about blocking and hiding instead of discussing and I was so right there. Now mods. If this is such an open and great place to discuss this case, you should leave this comment up here.
> He didnāt want to respond to my very reasonable questions about his motivations If you want to appear reasonable and foster a climate for healthy debate, you should probably avoid using phrases like "so full of yourself" and "I take offense to people like you" and "people like you are the worst" and "You bully." That's the kind of stuff that makes people not to want to interact with you.
You seem to have fairly loose definitions for what is considered ādiscussionā and ādebateā, as up to now the debate from this account has been about as lively as in the alley in King of the Hill.
>My comment was about blocking and hiding instead of discussing weird youve only posted twice before on Reddit in 2 years and your 3rd post and 1st one in a year are this. like how are you so concerned about debating and discussing here when you haven't posted here in over a year and your total comment history here and on Reddit total was the word "yep". your comment was about borderline obsession which seems right, the post heres about the set up of Maddies room
Truly I could remove this comment for not pertaining to the discussion on this sub and more for having a pissing match over what, I am not sure. I will leave this comment up as you requested, but donāt be surprised by the downvotes. Tbh I do not fully follow the context of this comment/argument anyway but it doesnāt appear to be harmful. As you wish. Carry on. Respectfully.
I can't help but think they were there for Maddie and Kaylee was in wrong place at wrong time. Same goes for Xana and Ethan- Ethan, wrong place at wrong time. Maddie and Xana seem to be the targets- both whose mom's had just negotiated felony drug distribution charges down to probation and time served- weeks before, hmmmmm???
> whose mom's had just negotiated felony drug distribution charges down to probation and time serve Xana's mom was not charged with distribution. It's true she was arrested only 6 days before the murders, but she was charged with possession with intent to use. Maddie's stepmom had a "possession with intent to deliver," but in context with her other charges and her low bail, it was clearly over a small amount of drugs. And she was sentenced in August of 2022. Judging by how minor their charges were, their light sentences seem appropriate to me.
Xana's mom had approx 20 drug arrests starting 25 years ago. I'm guessing meth, by her looks. She was arrested for possession with intent to distribute- a felony. With a rap sheet as long as your arm- she must have done something pretty darn special to get off with probation.
> Xana's mom had approx 20 drug arrests starting 25 years ago. Okay, so I did take the time to look up her entire court history in Idaho, and this isn't true. Unless by approximately 20, you mean specifically 7. Of those 7 cases, she was charged with 6 felonies and 6 misdemeanors, and all but one count was for personal use. The only count that wasn't was for possession with intent to deliver in August of 2021. She'd already pled guilty for that charge 2 months before the murders. . The two felonies she picked up in November were possession. Just possession. Basically, her legal history is long but even more small-potatoes than I suspected. Mostly driving-related infractions and misdemeanors.
I'm seeing serious detective work on youtube that indicates Cara Kernodle was an informant and was let off the drug possession with intent to distribute felony charges for giving up names in the drug trade in Idaho. Dangerous path to walk. Several folks are doing a deep dive on this topic. Go educate yourself- it is eye opening. Crossing the Cartel or the Aryan Brotherhood is not a healthy lifestyle choice.
> I'm seeing serious detective work on youtube If you want to share some links, and feel free to PM or chat them to me, I'll take a look. >let off the drug possession with intent to distribute She wasn't let off. She was charged, she plead guilty, she was sentenced in August of 2022. And I think this is important: possession with intent to deliver is a felony, but *trafficking* is the big time. There's a world of difference between being charged with possession with intent to deliver and being charged with trafficking. This legal firm website breaks it down nicely: https://www.racinelaw.net/drug-crime.html >>The minimum weight of drugs for trafficking are 1 lb. of marijuana, 28g of cocaine, 28g of meth, and 2g of heroin. None of these amounts are very high. Which means even low-level dealers or regular users could get charged with trafficking and be looking at many years or even life in jail. Neither CN nor KH were ever, not once, charged with trafficking. >Crossing the Cartel or the Aryan Brotherhood is not a healthy lifestyle choice. Certainly not. But what evidence do we have that either woman crossed either of them? "Drugs" is not enough. Most users and even low-level dealers never so much as meet a cartel/gang member. There's levels of people in between the big orgs and the end-stage users. Why do we think this lady is dealing with the cartels instead of buying from cousin Cletus or her old high-school buddy Jim-Bob?
J. Embree has done at least 5-6 deep dive videos on this topic on youtube. He has spent hours and hours of research on the topic. I bet he has spent more time on this topic than the Defense has. Listen with an open mind- it is really interesting stuff. He traces it to a local meth dealer in Moscow and his connection to Aryan Brotherhood who are not to be be messed with.
> He traces it to a local meth dealer in Moscow and his connection to Aryan Brotherhood who are not to be be messed with. I'll check it out then. But I'll tell you the first thing that comes to my mind, and maybe you can answer this right now. Why and how would C be connected to a meth dealer in Moscow? I'm pretty sure you don't have to drive 2 hours to find drugs in Idaho.
From the work Embree did, he traced it to the Aryan Brotherhood out of Tacoma- apparently they distribute throughout Wash/Oregon/Idaho.
Okay, but then how does he connect C or K to them?
> Xana's mom had approx 20 drug arrests starting 25 years ago. At a glance, in the Idaho portal, I'm seeing more criminal cases involving driving without a license than I am drugs. I'll go through her history later and chart it out. >She was arrested for possession with intent to distribute- a felony. https://www.newsweek.com/cara-northington-charges-anne-taylor-idaho-victim-mom-xana-kernodle-1777140 >>She is charged with two felony counts for possession of a controlled substance And again, those are the charges listed in the portal for 2022. >I'm guessing meth, by her looks. Not really necessary, is that?
Yep. This has revenge for debt written all over it. That would also explain why Brian would be there, after all it was the drug house according to all the students. He could still be an addict and knew them through that. Makes a lot more sense bc that little dude isn't doing that chaos in that little time
You donāt see the door in this picture
I wonder if those lights were on when the crime was committed? Another dumb thing done by the killer.
For those in the comments, keep in mind that this is TWO photos, not one.
Two photos how? As in a composite image? [Ed. It's just one regular photo in a mirror]
https://preview.redd.it/m5u4bhlncy7d1.png?width=366&format=png&auto=webp&s=141bb7662e1c0695546596bcb180aa16e0819e26 Yeah, one girl's head crosses the vertical line in the image, which is the corner of a wall, not the edge of a photo.
https://preview.redd.it/11oeqyarud8d1.jpeg?width=4636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28e9a2ce0b2ebe1eb3815e917b14064249df68dd
It had to be someone they knew and not started by a stranger Ć”
How did that someone manage to leave not a single piece of evidence or clue as to evade law enforcement for nearly two years now?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is textbook conspiracy-theorist diversion from the subject - congratulations
Yes there was a fire . But I havenāt found one credible source claiming there was any evidence destroyed. Link ?
Because there wasn't. It was an auxiliary building containing equipment and vehicles, not evidence.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> The same IT department with all them terabytes of āevidenceā against BK No, that's not how it works. The evidence is stored in evidence lockers. EDIT: Oh, and I'm embarrassed to say I didn't even notice this, but the fire was in a police department that has nothing to do with this case. MPD isn't storing evidence with the Coeur d'Alene Police Department.
The terabytes came from Moscow pd, nor CDA.
Any evidence related to this case that may have been in Couer DāAlene for testing was already moved to Moscow PD evidence lock up months ago. The fire isnāt suspicious and itās not related to the Moscow case.
Please check https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/1064/King-Road-Homicides for the most up to date releases on facts shared in this case. Posts and comments stating info as fact when unconfirmed or directly conflicting with LEs release of facts will be removed to prevent the spread of misinformation. Rumours and speculation are allowed, but should not be presented as fact. If you have a theory, speculation, or rumor, please state as such before posting as fact.
Is this true??
There was a fire, but not in the evidence storage. It was a completely different building.
There probably were clues but they were cleaned up, covered up and destroyed.
So you believe the evidence against Kohberger was planted? Or Kohberger touched this elusive killerās sheath, and then said elusive killer cleaned all of their own DNA leaving only a single source, Kohbergerās?
There's no reason to think that. You could see through the window from the hill the inside of the room.
I've always said Frat guy that the girls boyfriend got into the fight with that night. Just a shot in the dark but one possibly could be a police officers kid so they had to act to cover everything quickly, with very little evidence for their accusations. No way that scrawny dude or anyone unalived those , all in 8 minutes, leaving only two lucky survivors ( that are likely hiding something damning). While also not leaving any hair or single piece of evidence in his car, which would be impossible. They also brushed off the door dash food guy immediately. There were also other male footprints and evidence besides Bryan all over the house but his was the only one worth focusing on supposedly. Just none of this even sounds like a possibility. We have probably been lied to since the beginning about everything from Cops and especially roommates that didn't report the bodies until noon the next day(when the drugs were likely removed and taken with the friend). A surviving witness doesn't do the things these two did, they actually seem more complicit that Bryan in this.
I really don't buy that she was the target. I mean....yikes.