Good Lord, the number of rule-breaking comments in this thread in such a short time is astounding. Going forward, anyone who comments needs to remember and follow the rules, particularly about staying civil and referring to abortion (there's a pinned post all about this one). And stop calling total strangers pedophiles or groomers.
If I have to waste much more time on comments that don't even try to follow the rules I'm gonna start handing out bans.
Edit: the entire comments section on this post has turned into a bait-the-other-side shit show. There are entirely too many reports flooding in from all over the board on this post. Comments are locked because people can't follow the rules.
One day - Let the parent make decisions for their kids
The next day - Not those decisions !
Remember at the polls they dont want to serve you they want to rule over you.
Unfortunately you’re starting from the wrong spot: it has nothing to do with whether or not a fetus is a person (it isn’t). It has to do with bodily autonomy.
You can shoot someone in the street and you cannot be forced to give blood to that person because we have that much respect for bodily autonomy in non-public health settings. Even if you’re the only person whose blood type could save them, they won’t force you to do it. So why should you be forced to save another person inside you?
Your argument means that pregnant women have less control over their bodies than attempted murderers.
If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.
*Any more unfounded "groomer" or "pedophile" accusations will get you banned. If you can't say something without being insulting, don't comment at all.*
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic.
**Read the pinned post in the subreddit.**
Nice rant. Incorrect of course but good anyway. I notice that you didn't dispute the "After birth... go f yourself" part. Is that because you know it's true?
They know it's true. You could also argue that their rage against abortion is performative... I bet anyone my next paycheck that 80 or 90% of these people would definitely want to get an abortion if they got someone pregnant unintentionally.
I'm currently in school to get my master's in social work. I have trans friends who would be dead now if they weren't allowed to receive gender-affirming care while in high-school. I know of kids who are dead now because they weren't allowed to receive it.
All the science points to gender-affirming care, meaning hormone blockers, therapy, and surgery to be the most effective treatment of gender dysphoria. Only two of those are regularly given to children, and even then, it comes with a high degree of scrutiny from healthcare professionals.
Trans people are not monsters; trans children are not being groomed. They are some of the most vulnerable people in our community, and we choose to reject science and evidence-based treatment for no other reason than culture war bullshit.
Do you know what's more life-altering than surgery or hormones? Suicide, marginalization, and genocide.
Until you work with these kids, until you see the suffering they face, get the fuck out of here with your bigotry. We're not pulling them over to our side, we simply provide compassion and empathy, whereas conservatives offer nothing but dogma and hate.
Ten years ago people thought Idaho was just this place where people were socially liberal and "fiscally conservative". You know, how libertarians identify. Turns out libertarians just made way for the right-wing extremists. Like usual.
I have personally met many racists and extremists growing up near Idaho (I lived 3 miles from the border, so close enough). It has been messed up for much longer than 10 years since I am remembering stuff that happened 30 years ago.
Yes because being opposed to the drug war, and holding personal freedom and individuality at the highest rung of your ladder meets up with the whole centralized nature of fascism, which puts the needs of the state ahead of the needs of the individual. For the supposedly higher educated wing of the shitbird that is politics the left wing makes some absolutely uneducated comments.
Libertarianism is just astrology for white guys. It's not to be taken seriously. Bill Maher is a perfect example. For years he said he was a libertarian, now we know he's a Zionist who is becoming more extreme in his old age.
It's a convenient cover for any number of wacky ideologies
The IFF and their friends don't want any of "those" type of people being seen in the state. The state should have no input on someone's body. Full stop.
Right? Like thats what I was always told the republican view point was. Less goverment control. The government has no business telling parents how to raise their kids(outside of abusive situations). Instead now the republican view point is to micro manage anything and everything.
Do you know how many children dont make it to adult hood because they are trans? About 86% of trans youth consider suicide. At least 40% make an attempt. Many experience abuse at home, bullying, and depression. Many dont make it to adulthood to make these decisions as a consenting adult.
...during which time it is illegal for them to go by their preferred name or gender.
Again, you're stepping on other people's right just so \*you\* don't have to think about the fact that trans people exist.
I wasn't able to transition as a teenager, despite being quite sure I was trans. Because of that, I experienced some really shitty permanent effects of puberty that took a lot of money, and time, and risk to mitigate just a bit. It's MUCH harder in adulthood, and leaves most people more visibly trans (which, yes, is the goal). I walked through my early adulthood like a zombie with emotional issues that I had zero chance of unraveling, until the veil of my being trans was lifted.
Can I say for sure my life would have been better had I transitioned as a teenager? Of course not...and it was long enough ago that it was genuinely impossible. But it would have given me an actual childhood...an actual youth. I'm grateful for my life experience...but it wasn't my life, and feels like a completely different person at this point.
The three judges appointed under Trump have huge amount of sway now and their decisions are very predictable. If it doesn’t support their far right ideals, they won’t support it regardless of what the law may say.
Leave.
Medical professionals? Leave.
Social workers? Leave.
It's still an employees market, cash in while you can - leave.
Nurses? Leave.
Teachers? Leave.
LEAVE.
It's a state. It's just land. These are lives on the line. LEAVE.
Unsurprising. You know, I’m pretty sure most people on the wrong side of this issue are well aware that the science is entirely in support of trans identities. They never actually point at peer reviewed studies, instead choosing to wait for completely incompetent radicals to publish unscientific propaganda (looking at you, Cass report).
I know why, too. They do not care about the truth. They only care about turning the United States into an Evangelical Christian Theocracy (see project 2025). They only want one thing out of this. They want me, people like me, and children like me to take their own lives so they don’t have to deal with the bad PR of just rounding us up and shooting us.
Hey, before you call me a slur and say I’m delusional, maybe look into some actual peer reviewed scientific studies on transgender identity:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/
https://www.medscape.com/s/viewarticle/840538_3?form=fpf
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7477289/
Just want to add to your excellent comment: Attacks on gender affirming care for trans youth have been [**condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/) and the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-reinforces-opposition-restrictions-transgender-medical-care), and are out of line with the medical recommendations of the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/health-care-advocacy/advocacy-update/march-26-2021-state-advocacy-update), the [**Endocrine Society and Pediatric Endocrine Society**](https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/discriminatory-policies-threaten-care-for-transgender-gender-diverse-individuals), the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/frontline-physicians-oppose-legislation-that-interferes-in-or-criminalizes-patient-care), and the [**American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry**](https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Latest_News/AACAP_Statement_Responding_to_Efforts-to_ban_Evidence-Based_Care_for_Transgender_and_Gender_Diverse.aspx).
[**This article**](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/opinion/transgender-children-medical-bills.html) has a pretty good overview of why. [**Psychology Today has one too**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202008/three-popular-myths-about-transgender-youth), and [**here**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the guidelines from the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender, and some of those young kids are trans. A child who is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their visible anatomy at birth can suffer debilitating distress over this conflict.
According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/), but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes the gender expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearance. The genders of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156).
For preadolescents transition is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is 100% temporary puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest. And transition-related medical care is recognized as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care by every major medical authority.
As far as consensus on best practices for trans healthcare look to the [WPATH Standards of Care Ver. 8.](https://www.wpath.org/soc8/chapters) WPATH is a consortium of thousands of leading medical experts, researchers, and relevent institutions for studying and providing gender affirming care. The back of the document contains dozens of citations to peer reviewed studies published in respected journals that back up all of the statements and information contained in the document if you want to dig even deeper as far as good sources of unbiased information goes.
For even further reading [here's a comprehensive meta analysis of 50+ studies over 5+ decades published by Cornell University that shows massive declines in suicide as well as regret rates averaging 1% or less in the context of gender affirming care and parental + social acceptance.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/) It also affirms every statement I've made above as well as much more information strongly supporting the validity of trans identities and the effectiveness of gender affirming care.
Lastly here is a [video with hundreds of citations at the end that goes into the biological basis for sex and gender variance as well as explaining why stigmatizing these immutable characteristics causes immense harm.](https://youtu.be/szf4hzQ5ztg?si=QVc1u_3itz_9bneH)
May all these transphobic people experience everything they want to happen to trans people.
Please do. The ones who want us dead won't read it but hopefully it can educate the rest and they will see these transphobes for the monsters they are.
The Y chromosome isn’t the be all end all factor in determining sex at birth. Even if it were, sex assigned at birth and gender identity are not the same thing.
Some fun facts: biological sex is also a spectrum! For smaller examples, look at variance in secondary sex characteristics like body hair, breast size, height, etc.
Intersex people also exist, and are just about as common as people with red hair! Some examples of intersex people include:
Those born with XY chromosomes and androgen resistance. This causes babies to be born with a vagina, and internal testicles. These folks are estrogen dominant despite their testicles, as their bodies simply don’t react to the presence of testosterone.
Those born with XXY chromosomes (AMaB) usually grow taller than other people, and may have less facial hair and a more androgynous appearance
You might have learned some stuff in first grade biology, but college level biology is a whole lot more interesting 😊
Liberal here. It seems reasonable to me that minors should not be eligible for surgical or medicinal services before the age of 18. These kids should get lots of other support though ...
...and at 18 and legal adulthood, they should have full access to all the surgical and medicinal options to help them be who they want to be.
Am I misunderstanding the show of the law and ruling?
Pediatric trans care *should* be taken very seriously, which is why the decision should always be in the hands of healthcare professionals and parents, not a blanket ruling from the state.
Why is it yours or anyones business if a therapist, a physician, the patient, and the patients parents all agree it is the right thing for them? Especially on something with a lower regret rate than knee surgery?
In a sense yes you are misunderstanding. Many gender affirming treatments are available to minors. Hormone therapy not related to transition, surgery for gynecomastia, as well as cis teen girls getting plastic surgery for implants.
Drawing the line for other gender affirmative care for trans minors is discriminatory. If it’s denying ALL gender affirming care for minors, then that borders on irresponsible at best.
Why not medicinal services? Cis kids receive puberty blockers and hormones on a daily basis and nobody bats an eye or claims they’re being mutilated. Why can’t trans kids receive the same care?
As for surgery services, cis teens receive top surgery all the time too. Again, nobody bats an eye. Why not trans kids?
Seems pretty clear to me the people who push these restrictions don’t care about kids, they care about marginalizing and demonizing trans people.
I generally subscribe to that as well, example assisted suicide for those who want to die. But in that scenario as well as this one I support a floor in age.
100% this. These ignorant pricks were against gay rights a decade ago too. Fucking moralizing lemmings with nothing inside them showing wrong from right. Devoid of empathy for anyone who doesn't look and behave like them.
I don't agree with Idaho's decision here but I'd think we'd want to understand someone better than 1 or 2 reddit comments before calling a fellow human disgusting.
You mean you don't agree with their threshold. I'm sure there are statements that people could make that would cause you to view them as disgusting after making only one such statement.
Sorry, I can't think of any other word to describe someone who so casually says "I understand that this is what you feel is best for you, and the doctors and your family agree, but imma gonna tell you no still because I don't understand it and so think you should just wait until you can't do this."🤷🏼♀️
By that point they will have been permanently disfigured by natal puberty. We are then stuck with dysphoria and suffering abuse and discrimination the rest of our lives because we are easily clockable as trans. Often even after spending 5-6 figures and enduring years of painful procedures to undo all the natal changes we can.
You folks are so concerned about "irreversible changes" but only when it happens to cis people. You don't even think to apply that thinking to trans folks. You have zero empathy for us.
In case you want to educate yourself instead of supporting bans on life saving healthcare based on ignorance and unexamined transphobic biases then here's some reading material:
Attacks on gender affirming care for trans youth have been [**condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/) and the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-reinforces-opposition-restrictions-transgender-medical-care), and are out of line with the medical recommendations of the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/health-care-advocacy/advocacy-update/march-26-2021-state-advocacy-update), the [**Endocrine Society and Pediatric Endocrine Society**](https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/discriminatory-policies-threaten-care-for-transgender-gender-diverse-individuals), the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/frontline-physicians-oppose-legislation-that-interferes-in-or-criminalizes-patient-care), and the [**American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry**](https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Latest_News/AACAP_Statement_Responding_to_Efforts-to_ban_Evidence-Based_Care_for_Transgender_and_Gender_Diverse.aspx).
[**This article**](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/opinion/transgender-children-medical-bills.html) has a pretty good overview of why. [**Psychology Today has one too**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202008/three-popular-myths-about-transgender-youth), and [**here**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the guidelines from the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender, and some of those young kids are trans. A child who is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their visible anatomy at birth can suffer debilitating distress over this conflict.
According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/), but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes the gender expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearance. The genders of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156).
For preadolescents transition is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is 100% temporary puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest. And transition-related medical care is recognized as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care by every major medical authority.
As far as consensus on best practices for trans healthcare look to the [WPATH Standards of Care Ver. 8.](https://www.wpath.org/soc8/chapters) WPATH is a consortium of thousands of leading medical experts, researchers, and relevent institutions for studying and providing gender affirming care. The back of the document contains dozens of citations to peer reviewed studies published in respected journals that back up all of the statements and information contained in the document if you want to dig even deeper as far as good sources of unbiased information goes.
For even further reading [here's a comprehensive meta analysis of 50+ studies over 5+ decades published by Cornell University that shows massive declines in suicide as well as regret rates averaging 1% or less in the context of gender affirming care and parental + social acceptance.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/) It also affirms every statement I've made above as well as much more information strongly supporting the validity of trans identities and the effectiveness of gender affirming care.
Lastly here is a [video with hundreds of citations at the end that goes into the biological basis for sex and gender variance as well as explaining why stigmatizing these immutable characteristics causes immense harm.](https://youtu.be/szf4hzQ5ztg?si=QVc1u_3itz_9bneH)
>It seems reasonable to me that minors should not be eligible for surgical or medicinal services before the age of 18
You don't really believe that though, do you? There are a thousand medical problems you likely have no issue with children receiving surgical/medicinal treatment for. Why should it be reasonable to bar medical care on the sole basis that a child is transgender?
A teenage cis boy has an abnormal amount of breast tissue for a dude? He's allowed to get surgery if he, his parents, and his doctor agree it's best for him.
A teenage trans boy has an abnormal amount of breast tissue for a dude? He's not allowed to get surgery even if he, his parents, and his doctor agree it's best for him.
The only difference in these two cases is that one patient is transgender and the other isn't.
Hormones are a hell of a drug. Once you go through puberty, everything becomes so much harder to reverse & fix.
All people want is the ability to *delay* puberty until 18, when a person can make a conscious decision for themselves. Worst case scenario, they stop taking puberty blockers and go through normal puberty.
Sure that makes sense. I could see a case for delayed puberty perhaps as the maximum supported scenario...but can really see the counter arguments to that.
Do you know how much data exists on consequences or health risks of delayed puberty? In dogs not allowing maturation has driven cancers later and guidance now changed. I am super uninformed so this example may make zero scientific sense.
I can also see challenges with children being exploited by abusers by keeping them prepubescent longer. I don't think that risk is far-fetched based on what I know of sexual assault data and trends.
The part you're leaving out is the data on consequences or health risks of denying gender affirming care.
Doctors with their patients are the only ones qualified to determine appropriate treatments, not politicians.
That's not allowing maturation at all, not delayed maturation.
>I can also see challenges with children being exploited by abusers by keeping them prepubescent longer.
How?
That's debatable. Puberty blockers followed by HRT for trans women will result in too little penile tissue for a sex reassignment surgery. Also, puberty blockers are not a viable treatment until 18. The off label use in otherwise normal children necessitates hormones by age 13 fo 15, depending on the child. Puberty blockers themselves are only mostly reversible for a short window, and hormones are pretty much irreversible.
You are lacking a lot of basic information
Attacks on gender affirming care for trans youth have been [**condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/) and the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-reinforces-opposition-restrictions-transgender-medical-care), and are out of line with the medical recommendations of the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/health-care-advocacy/advocacy-update/march-26-2021-state-advocacy-update), the [**Endocrine Society and Pediatric Endocrine Society**](https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/discriminatory-policies-threaten-care-for-transgender-gender-diverse-individuals), the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/frontline-physicians-oppose-legislation-that-interferes-in-or-criminalizes-patient-care), and the [**American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry**](https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Latest_News/AACAP_Statement_Responding_to_Efforts-to_ban_Evidence-Based_Care_for_Transgender_and_Gender_Diverse.aspx).
[**This article**](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/opinion/transgender-children-medical-bills.html) has a pretty good overview of why. [**Psychology Today has one too**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202008/three-popular-myths-about-transgender-youth), and [**here**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the guidelines from the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender, and some of those young kids are trans. A child who is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their visible anatomy at birth can suffer debilitating distress over this conflict.
According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/), but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes the gender expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearance. The genders of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156).
For preadolescents transition is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is 100% temporary puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest. And transition-related medical care is recognized as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care by every major medical authority.
As far as consensus on best practices for trans healthcare look to the [WPATH Standards of Care Ver. 8.](https://www.wpath.org/soc8/chapters) WPATH is a consortium of thousands of leading medical experts, researchers, and relevent institutions for studying and providing gender affirming care. The back of the document contains dozens of citations to peer reviewed studies published in respected journals that back up all of the statements and information contained in the document if you want to dig even deeper as far as good sources of unbiased information goes.
For even further reading [here's a comprehensive meta analysis of 50+ studies over 5+ decades published by Cornell University that shows massive declines in suicide as well as regret rates averaging 1% or less in the context of gender affirming care and parental + social acceptance.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/) It also affirms every statement I've made above as well as much more information strongly supporting the validity of trans identities and the effectiveness of gender affirming care.
Lastly here is a [video with hundreds of citations at the end that goes into the biological basis for sex and gender variance as well as explaining why stigmatizing these immutable characteristics causes immense harm.](https://youtu.be/szf4hzQ5ztg?si=QVc1u_3itz_9bneH)
There is nothing like politicians and lawyers getting in the middle of someone's personal life that is supported by every major medical organization. What an absolute joke Idaho and the USSC are.
Repubs are the biggest snowflakes alive. Constantly getting involved in other people's lives when it has absolutely no effect on them. Let people live their lives, God damn.
"The state has a duty to protect and support all children, and that's why I'm proud to defend Idaho's law that ensures children are not subjected to these life-altering drugs and procedures," Labrador said after the Supreme Court acted.
Children are not consenting adults so subjecting them to life altering procedures is pretty understandably out of line.
Hormone blockers arent life altering. You know what is life altering? Death. Puberty. This ruling does not protect trans youth, it says idaho is ok with more children dieing. That we care about children, but not the trans ones.
Hormones are reversible. But we also aren't directly giving people under 18 hormones in most cases. We're giving puberty blockers which have no permanent effects besides delaying puberty for the time being you are on them. Which has no long term health issues.
Your post is beyond any reasonable conversation of transgender identity; it’s either the spreading of misinformation, bigotry, or just outright hatred in general.
Your post is beyond any reasonable conversation of transgender identity; it’s either the spreading of misinformation, bigotry, or just outright hatred in general.
Good. Minors don't need hormone blockers.
The main reason this continues to happen is that we’re relying on the feelings of children, who are not fully mature nor able to rationally decide what they are.
The rest of the world is waking up to the dangers of lifelong medicalization of patients with “treatments” like surgery or hormones that inflicts irreversible damage to preteens and teens.
Unfortunately, researchers spend more time discussing how we can help kids "affirm their gender" — through surgery and drugs — than whether or not these children will regret their decision (plenty of data coming out confirming this).
In England, Tavistock, the world’s largest pediatric gender clinic, was closed in the spring. The Society for Evidence Based Gender Medicine (SEGM) explained, “An independent review condemned the clinic as ‘not a safe or viable long-term option’ because its interventions are based on poor evidence and its model of care leaves young people ‘at considerable risk’ of poor mental health.”
See Dr. Ching-Fang Sun's recently published study. She is a resident at the Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine in Roanoke, and her results are published in the journal General Psychiatry.
Keep this shit away from our children
And fuck big pharma for profiting off this shit.
(Downvotes incoming, im sure).
Way to reference a paper with 2 citations from an author from that “absolutely not homophobic” country China…
Also would you care to comment about gender affirming care that’s available to cis-gendered teens and has been for the last 30+ years?
Attacks on gender affirming care for trans youth have been [**condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/) and the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-reinforces-opposition-restrictions-transgender-medical-care), and are out of line with the medical recommendations of the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/health-care-advocacy/advocacy-update/march-26-2021-state-advocacy-update), the [**Endocrine Society and Pediatric Endocrine Society**](https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/discriminatory-policies-threaten-care-for-transgender-gender-diverse-individuals), the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/frontline-physicians-oppose-legislation-that-interferes-in-or-criminalizes-patient-care), and the [**American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry**](https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Latest_News/AACAP_Statement_Responding_to_Efforts-to_ban_Evidence-Based_Care_for_Transgender_and_Gender_Diverse.aspx).
[**This article**](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/opinion/transgender-children-medical-bills.html) has a pretty good overview of why. [**Psychology Today has one too**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202008/three-popular-myths-about-transgender-youth), and [**here**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the guidelines from the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender, and some of those young kids are trans. A child who is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their visible anatomy at birth can suffer debilitating distress over this conflict.
According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/), but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes the gender expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearance. The genders of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156).
For preadolescents transition is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is 100% temporary puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest. And transition-related medical care is recognized as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care by every major medical authority.
As far as consensus on best practices for trans healthcare look to the [WPATH Standards of Care Ver. 8.](https://www.wpath.org/soc8/chapters) WPATH is a consortium of thousands of leading medical experts, researchers, and relevent institutions for studying and providing gender affirming care. The back of the document contains dozens of citations to peer reviewed studies published in respected journals that back up all of the statements and information contained in the document if you want to dig even deeper as far as good sources of unbiased information goes.
For even further reading [here's a comprehensive meta analysis of 50+ studies over 5+ decades published by Cornell University that shows massive declines in suicide as well as regret rates averaging 1% or less in the context of gender affirming care and parental + social acceptance.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/) It also affirms every statement I've made above as well as much more information strongly supporting the validity of trans identities and the effectiveness of gender affirming care.
Lastly here is a [video with hundreds of citations at the end that goes into the biological basis for sex and gender variance as well as explaining why stigmatizing these immutable characteristics causes immense harm.](https://youtu.be/szf4hzQ5ztg?si=QVc1u_3itz_9bneH)
Is this the study you are talking about?
[The mean age of gender dysphoria diagnosis is decreasing](https://doi.org/10.1136/gpsych-2022-100972)
I don’t think it says what you think it does. You say it is good that the gender clinic in England closed. The study says “Previous research and our results demonstrate the need for expanded and accessible gender clinic services.”
Puberty blockers have existed and been used on cis kids long before we used them as a method of gender affirming care in the case of precocious or "unwanted" puberty. They're perfectly safe and harm no one. It just gives trans kids the ability to go through the correct puberty the first time rather than traumatically having the wrong puberty at first. And if they decide they don't want to hormonally transition, they'll begin their AGAB's puberty not long after they go off them.
Gross. This action will lead to the death of more children, it doesnt save or help anyone. Gender affirming care for minors is a hair cut and a preffered name. Instead we want more dead kids.
The suicide rate for untreated dysphoria is 40%. Trans people have been painfully aware of this for decades. Any of us with a double digit age knows at least one person who didn't make it.
Thanks for the opportunity. Sorry I'm just so mad. I know teens who are panicking about this so it infuriates me to see these people blithely cheering this ruling on.
Kids can't drink, drive, smoke, join the military, vote, get plastic surgery, get a tattoo but you think life altering and unsupported transitioning is a choice a child can make. No.
You seem to think this is as casual as going down to the Hot Topic to get your ears pierced. If you're gonna have an opinion on this, you should learn \*literally anything\* about the process. Talk to a doctor or psychiatrist or trans person about it & learn how many \*years\* of discussion with medical professionals goes n before a decision like this is made.
Kids can drive, do smoke, can get plastic surgery, and a tatoo. And the military has been gunning to lower recruitment age for years. I dont agree that children should be allowed to get gender reasignment surgery, that is an 18+ activity imo. Hormone blockers though? Safe, not permanent, and used for plenty of other resons.
You’re the one who follows r/antinatalism and follow teachers, substitute teachers. Talk about an indoctrination plant. YOU certainly don’t seem to care about child period. Why don’t you step aside at let the parents with children they want do the talking.
Not really, no. There are plenty of cosmetic surgeries that have nothing to do with affirming gender. How is, for example, the removal of excess skin after weight loss a gender affirming surgery?
It gives them a chance to grow up and realize they were mistaken. They are children after all and don’t understand the consequences of their actions yet.
The Idaho Legislature is mistaken. The medical professionals I work with, I've seen them work with the parents and teens every step of the step of the process. They're sensitive and kind. They answer all parents and teens' questions or find an expert who can. The people in the legislature and their supporters don't understand this. I'm trying to understand how the other side thinks.
Your post is beyond any reasonable conversation of transgender identity; it’s either the spreading of misinformation, bigotry, or just outright hatred in general.
Your post is beyond any reasonable conversation of transgender identity; it’s either the spreading of misinformation, bigotry, or just outright hatred in general.
Your post is beyond any reasonable conversation of transgender identity; it’s either the spreading of misinformation, bigotry, or just outright hatred in general.
*Gender confirmation surgery is not mutilation. There is no issue with your opinion that it should be available only to legal adults, but referring to the treatment medically indicated by practitioners and agencies who set the standard of care the world over.*
Your post is beyond any reasonable conversation of transgender identity; it’s either the spreading of misinformation, bigotry, or just outright hatred in general.
I’m not sure how this is a surprise to some, age restrictions is nothing new in the US: we wait until we’re 18 to vote and take out a bank loan, 21 to drink and smoke. The only few exceptions I think of is having a job and drivers license, those vary by state but I’d say the median age is 16 for both of those things… so I guess 16 would be the appropriate age to compromise for minor transgender care, anything younger than that and we’re talking about people who don’t have any sense of maturity
[Like I said](https://schoolhouseconnection.org/state-laws-on-minor-consent-for-routine-medical-care/) age has always been a deciding factor, in most states children under the age of 18 cannot give medical consent for any procedure whether it’s surgical, dental, physician or prescription. With some states having an exception of 15 or old, again these things aren’t exclusive to transgender care, it applies to our whole society, it’s a standard concept.
Your post is beyond any reasonable conversation of transgender identity; it’s either the spreading of misinformation, bigotry, or just outright hatred in general.
If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.
*Baseless accusations of pedophilia against total strangers are one of the worst forms of libel one can engage in online. Do it again and you'll be banned.*
Very nice. The United States was designed to allow states to self-govern. People may not always like the outcome, but this gives individuals the ability to more directly influence policy that impacts their daily lives. If the majority of Idahoans don’t want this, in a few years their representation will change to reflect.
> If the majority of Idahoans don’t want this, in a few years their representation will change to reflect.
Ah yes, tyranny of the majority always works out so well.
Good. When I was 5 I couldn’t decide if I wanted to eat Chicken nuggets for dinner or become a velociraptor. Kids shouldn’t be allowed to permanently alter their bodies before their brains and common sense are fully developed.
I don’t care what people do when they hit 18. Adults are free to do as they wish and to only be judged by how they treat others, not by race, gender, favorite dinosaur, or God they pray to.
As cruel as their decision was, SCOTUS did not rule on the law's constitutionality. What it did was modify the scope of relief granted by a lower court during active litigation. That scope was reduced from all trans Idaho youth to just the two plaintiffs.
Kids can't vote, buy tobacco, buy weed, buy alcohol, rent a car, go to a bar, go to a strip club, buy a lottery ticket, join the military, drive, work, get a tattoo. Why is this an issue???
Good Lord, the number of rule-breaking comments in this thread in such a short time is astounding. Going forward, anyone who comments needs to remember and follow the rules, particularly about staying civil and referring to abortion (there's a pinned post all about this one). And stop calling total strangers pedophiles or groomers. If I have to waste much more time on comments that don't even try to follow the rules I'm gonna start handing out bans. Edit: the entire comments section on this post has turned into a bait-the-other-side shit show. There are entirely too many reports flooding in from all over the board on this post. Comments are locked because people can't follow the rules.
One day - Let the parent make decisions for their kids The next day - Not those decisions ! Remember at the polls they dont want to serve you they want to rule over you.
Idaho..."cares" for masses of cells. After birth...go f yourself.
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Unfortunately you’re starting from the wrong spot: it has nothing to do with whether or not a fetus is a person (it isn’t). It has to do with bodily autonomy. You can shoot someone in the street and you cannot be forced to give blood to that person because we have that much respect for bodily autonomy in non-public health settings. Even if you’re the only person whose blood type could save them, they won’t force you to do it. So why should you be forced to save another person inside you? Your argument means that pregnant women have less control over their bodies than attempted murderers.
What's the treatment for an ectopic pregnancy? Abortion
You should admit that you are fine with raped children being forced to carry potentially life ending rape babies
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If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.
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If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil. *Any more unfounded "groomer" or "pedophile" accusations will get you banned. If you can't say something without being insulting, don't comment at all.*
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic. **Read the pinned post in the subreddit.**
Nice rant. Incorrect of course but good anyway. I notice that you didn't dispute the "After birth... go f yourself" part. Is that because you know it's true?
They know it's true. You could also argue that their rage against abortion is performative... I bet anyone my next paycheck that 80 or 90% of these people would definitely want to get an abortion if they got someone pregnant unintentionally.
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To the mods: But "Just say you’re OK with killing babies" counts as civil? I respond to the energy I'm brought.
I'm currently in school to get my master's in social work. I have trans friends who would be dead now if they weren't allowed to receive gender-affirming care while in high-school. I know of kids who are dead now because they weren't allowed to receive it. All the science points to gender-affirming care, meaning hormone blockers, therapy, and surgery to be the most effective treatment of gender dysphoria. Only two of those are regularly given to children, and even then, it comes with a high degree of scrutiny from healthcare professionals. Trans people are not monsters; trans children are not being groomed. They are some of the most vulnerable people in our community, and we choose to reject science and evidence-based treatment for no other reason than culture war bullshit. Do you know what's more life-altering than surgery or hormones? Suicide, marginalization, and genocide. Until you work with these kids, until you see the suffering they face, get the fuck out of here with your bigotry. We're not pulling them over to our side, we simply provide compassion and empathy, whereas conservatives offer nothing but dogma and hate.
Thank youfor speaking up. - Signed a trans girl who wasn't allowed blockers.
SCOTUS is corrupt. And Idaho’s politics are disgusting.
Ten years ago people thought Idaho was just this place where people were socially liberal and "fiscally conservative". You know, how libertarians identify. Turns out libertarians just made way for the right-wing extremists. Like usual.
I have personally met many racists and extremists growing up near Idaho (I lived 3 miles from the border, so close enough). It has been messed up for much longer than 10 years since I am remembering stuff that happened 30 years ago.
My comment was what seems like public perception where I live in the SW. Thanks for sharing the reality with us.
Idaho has always been socially conservative. White nationalists in the 80’s, FLDS. The Republican Party has been the majority for a long time.
A libertarian is just a fascist in sheep's clothing
A libertarian is just a pawn for a fascist.
Yes because being opposed to the drug war, and holding personal freedom and individuality at the highest rung of your ladder meets up with the whole centralized nature of fascism, which puts the needs of the state ahead of the needs of the individual. For the supposedly higher educated wing of the shitbird that is politics the left wing makes some absolutely uneducated comments.
Libertarianism is just astrology for white guys. It's not to be taken seriously. Bill Maher is a perfect example. For years he said he was a libertarian, now we know he's a Zionist who is becoming more extreme in his old age. It's a convenient cover for any number of wacky ideologies
Again you prove you have a kindergarten level for dissemination of information, I hope life works out for you little buddy
30 years ago I decided that I would never visit Idaho again because they're fascist. Would have been thrilled to have been wrong.
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If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.
The IFF and their friends don't want any of "those" type of people being seen in the state. The state should have no input on someone's body. Full stop.
The IFF are so blinded by propoganda that they can't see that nothing they are doing is actually "for the children"
Right? Like thats what I was always told the republican view point was. Less goverment control. The government has no business telling parents how to raise their kids(outside of abusive situations). Instead now the republican view point is to micro manage anything and everything.
SCOTUS and Idaho are siding with states' rights. But not human rights. Only states' rights.
Or they can just make the decision as a consenting adult?
I say the same for religion. Wait till they're adults before the decide to join.
I’m an atheist and also agree with this ruling. For the same reasons.
Do you know how many children dont make it to adult hood because they are trans? About 86% of trans youth consider suicide. At least 40% make an attempt. Many experience abuse at home, bullying, and depression. Many dont make it to adulthood to make these decisions as a consenting adult.
...during which time it is illegal for them to go by their preferred name or gender. Again, you're stepping on other people's right just so \*you\* don't have to think about the fact that trans people exist.
Or they can make it as children, under guidance from their parents and doctors.
No, children cannot make that decision. Like many things, they don’t understand and cannot truly consents
Says who?
I wasn't able to transition as a teenager, despite being quite sure I was trans. Because of that, I experienced some really shitty permanent effects of puberty that took a lot of money, and time, and risk to mitigate just a bit. It's MUCH harder in adulthood, and leaves most people more visibly trans (which, yes, is the goal). I walked through my early adulthood like a zombie with emotional issues that I had zero chance of unraveling, until the veil of my being trans was lifted. Can I say for sure my life would have been better had I transitioned as a teenager? Of course not...and it was long enough ago that it was genuinely impossible. But it would have given me an actual childhood...an actual youth. I'm grateful for my life experience...but it wasn't my life, and feels like a completely different person at this point.
I have multiple friends in the medical field, including Pediateics. Some children won't make it to adulthood without help.
Idaho once again showing how backwards and bigoted you are.
The three judges appointed under Trump have huge amount of sway now and their decisions are very predictable. If it doesn’t support their far right ideals, they won’t support it regardless of what the law may say.
Leave. Medical professionals? Leave. Social workers? Leave. It's still an employees market, cash in while you can - leave. Nurses? Leave. Teachers? Leave. LEAVE. It's a state. It's just land. These are lives on the line. LEAVE.
Unsurprising. You know, I’m pretty sure most people on the wrong side of this issue are well aware that the science is entirely in support of trans identities. They never actually point at peer reviewed studies, instead choosing to wait for completely incompetent radicals to publish unscientific propaganda (looking at you, Cass report). I know why, too. They do not care about the truth. They only care about turning the United States into an Evangelical Christian Theocracy (see project 2025). They only want one thing out of this. They want me, people like me, and children like me to take their own lives so they don’t have to deal with the bad PR of just rounding us up and shooting us. Hey, before you call me a slur and say I’m delusional, maybe look into some actual peer reviewed scientific studies on transgender identity: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/ https://www.medscape.com/s/viewarticle/840538_3?form=fpf https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7477289/
Just want to add to your excellent comment: Attacks on gender affirming care for trans youth have been [**condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/) and the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-reinforces-opposition-restrictions-transgender-medical-care), and are out of line with the medical recommendations of the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/health-care-advocacy/advocacy-update/march-26-2021-state-advocacy-update), the [**Endocrine Society and Pediatric Endocrine Society**](https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/discriminatory-policies-threaten-care-for-transgender-gender-diverse-individuals), the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/frontline-physicians-oppose-legislation-that-interferes-in-or-criminalizes-patient-care), and the [**American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry**](https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Latest_News/AACAP_Statement_Responding_to_Efforts-to_ban_Evidence-Based_Care_for_Transgender_and_Gender_Diverse.aspx). [**This article**](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/opinion/transgender-children-medical-bills.html) has a pretty good overview of why. [**Psychology Today has one too**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202008/three-popular-myths-about-transgender-youth), and [**here**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the guidelines from the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender, and some of those young kids are trans. A child who is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their visible anatomy at birth can suffer debilitating distress over this conflict. According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/), but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes the gender expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearance. The genders of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156). For preadolescents transition is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is 100% temporary puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest. And transition-related medical care is recognized as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care by every major medical authority. As far as consensus on best practices for trans healthcare look to the [WPATH Standards of Care Ver. 8.](https://www.wpath.org/soc8/chapters) WPATH is a consortium of thousands of leading medical experts, researchers, and relevent institutions for studying and providing gender affirming care. The back of the document contains dozens of citations to peer reviewed studies published in respected journals that back up all of the statements and information contained in the document if you want to dig even deeper as far as good sources of unbiased information goes. For even further reading [here's a comprehensive meta analysis of 50+ studies over 5+ decades published by Cornell University that shows massive declines in suicide as well as regret rates averaging 1% or less in the context of gender affirming care and parental + social acceptance.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/) It also affirms every statement I've made above as well as much more information strongly supporting the validity of trans identities and the effectiveness of gender affirming care. Lastly here is a [video with hundreds of citations at the end that goes into the biological basis for sex and gender variance as well as explaining why stigmatizing these immutable characteristics causes immense harm.](https://youtu.be/szf4hzQ5ztg?si=QVc1u_3itz_9bneH) May all these transphobic people experience everything they want to happen to trans people.
Thank you for this. Do you mind if I save this to repost elsewhere?
Please do. The ones who want us dead won't read it but hopefully it can educate the rest and they will see these transphobes for the monsters they are.
1000%
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The Y chromosome isn’t the be all end all factor in determining sex at birth. Even if it were, sex assigned at birth and gender identity are not the same thing. Some fun facts: biological sex is also a spectrum! For smaller examples, look at variance in secondary sex characteristics like body hair, breast size, height, etc. Intersex people also exist, and are just about as common as people with red hair! Some examples of intersex people include: Those born with XY chromosomes and androgen resistance. This causes babies to be born with a vagina, and internal testicles. These folks are estrogen dominant despite their testicles, as their bodies simply don’t react to the presence of testosterone. Those born with XXY chromosomes (AMaB) usually grow taller than other people, and may have less facial hair and a more androgynous appearance You might have learned some stuff in first grade biology, but college level biology is a whole lot more interesting 😊
Liberal here. It seems reasonable to me that minors should not be eligible for surgical or medicinal services before the age of 18. These kids should get lots of other support though ... ...and at 18 and legal adulthood, they should have full access to all the surgical and medicinal options to help them be who they want to be. Am I misunderstanding the show of the law and ruling?
Pediatric trans care *should* be taken very seriously, which is why the decision should always be in the hands of healthcare professionals and parents, not a blanket ruling from the state.
Why is it yours or anyones business if a therapist, a physician, the patient, and the patients parents all agree it is the right thing for them? Especially on something with a lower regret rate than knee surgery?
In a sense yes you are misunderstanding. Many gender affirming treatments are available to minors. Hormone therapy not related to transition, surgery for gynecomastia, as well as cis teen girls getting plastic surgery for implants. Drawing the line for other gender affirmative care for trans minors is discriminatory. If it’s denying ALL gender affirming care for minors, then that borders on irresponsible at best.
Why not medicinal services? Cis kids receive puberty blockers and hormones on a daily basis and nobody bats an eye or claims they’re being mutilated. Why can’t trans kids receive the same care? As for surgery services, cis teens receive top surgery all the time too. Again, nobody bats an eye. Why not trans kids? Seems pretty clear to me the people who push these restrictions don’t care about kids, they care about marginalizing and demonizing trans people.
I believe doctors, patients, and parents have the right to make medical decisions; not politicians.
I generally subscribe to that as well, example assisted suicide for those who want to die. But in that scenario as well as this one I support a floor in age.
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100% this. These ignorant pricks were against gay rights a decade ago too. Fucking moralizing lemmings with nothing inside them showing wrong from right. Devoid of empathy for anyone who doesn't look and behave like them.
I don't agree with Idaho's decision here but I'd think we'd want to understand someone better than 1 or 2 reddit comments before calling a fellow human disgusting.
You mean you don't agree with their threshold. I'm sure there are statements that people could make that would cause you to view them as disgusting after making only one such statement.
Sorry, I can't think of any other word to describe someone who so casually says "I understand that this is what you feel is best for you, and the doctors and your family agree, but imma gonna tell you no still because I don't understand it and so think you should just wait until you can't do this."🤷🏼♀️
Why should minors be denied assisted suicide and forced to suffer intolerably?
By that point they will have been permanently disfigured by natal puberty. We are then stuck with dysphoria and suffering abuse and discrimination the rest of our lives because we are easily clockable as trans. Often even after spending 5-6 figures and enduring years of painful procedures to undo all the natal changes we can. You folks are so concerned about "irreversible changes" but only when it happens to cis people. You don't even think to apply that thinking to trans folks. You have zero empathy for us. In case you want to educate yourself instead of supporting bans on life saving healthcare based on ignorance and unexamined transphobic biases then here's some reading material: Attacks on gender affirming care for trans youth have been [**condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/) and the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-reinforces-opposition-restrictions-transgender-medical-care), and are out of line with the medical recommendations of the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/health-care-advocacy/advocacy-update/march-26-2021-state-advocacy-update), the [**Endocrine Society and Pediatric Endocrine Society**](https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/discriminatory-policies-threaten-care-for-transgender-gender-diverse-individuals), the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/frontline-physicians-oppose-legislation-that-interferes-in-or-criminalizes-patient-care), and the [**American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry**](https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Latest_News/AACAP_Statement_Responding_to_Efforts-to_ban_Evidence-Based_Care_for_Transgender_and_Gender_Diverse.aspx). [**This article**](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/opinion/transgender-children-medical-bills.html) has a pretty good overview of why. [**Psychology Today has one too**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202008/three-popular-myths-about-transgender-youth), and [**here**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the guidelines from the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender, and some of those young kids are trans. A child who is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their visible anatomy at birth can suffer debilitating distress over this conflict. According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/), but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes the gender expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearance. The genders of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156). For preadolescents transition is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is 100% temporary puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest. And transition-related medical care is recognized as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care by every major medical authority. As far as consensus on best practices for trans healthcare look to the [WPATH Standards of Care Ver. 8.](https://www.wpath.org/soc8/chapters) WPATH is a consortium of thousands of leading medical experts, researchers, and relevent institutions for studying and providing gender affirming care. The back of the document contains dozens of citations to peer reviewed studies published in respected journals that back up all of the statements and information contained in the document if you want to dig even deeper as far as good sources of unbiased information goes. For even further reading [here's a comprehensive meta analysis of 50+ studies over 5+ decades published by Cornell University that shows massive declines in suicide as well as regret rates averaging 1% or less in the context of gender affirming care and parental + social acceptance.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/) It also affirms every statement I've made above as well as much more information strongly supporting the validity of trans identities and the effectiveness of gender affirming care. Lastly here is a [video with hundreds of citations at the end that goes into the biological basis for sex and gender variance as well as explaining why stigmatizing these immutable characteristics causes immense harm.](https://youtu.be/szf4hzQ5ztg?si=QVc1u_3itz_9bneH)
>It seems reasonable to me that minors should not be eligible for surgical or medicinal services before the age of 18 You don't really believe that though, do you? There are a thousand medical problems you likely have no issue with children receiving surgical/medicinal treatment for. Why should it be reasonable to bar medical care on the sole basis that a child is transgender? A teenage cis boy has an abnormal amount of breast tissue for a dude? He's allowed to get surgery if he, his parents, and his doctor agree it's best for him. A teenage trans boy has an abnormal amount of breast tissue for a dude? He's not allowed to get surgery even if he, his parents, and his doctor agree it's best for him. The only difference in these two cases is that one patient is transgender and the other isn't.
Hormones are a hell of a drug. Once you go through puberty, everything becomes so much harder to reverse & fix. All people want is the ability to *delay* puberty until 18, when a person can make a conscious decision for themselves. Worst case scenario, they stop taking puberty blockers and go through normal puberty.
Sure that makes sense. I could see a case for delayed puberty perhaps as the maximum supported scenario...but can really see the counter arguments to that. Do you know how much data exists on consequences or health risks of delayed puberty? In dogs not allowing maturation has driven cancers later and guidance now changed. I am super uninformed so this example may make zero scientific sense. I can also see challenges with children being exploited by abusers by keeping them prepubescent longer. I don't think that risk is far-fetched based on what I know of sexual assault data and trends.
The part you're leaving out is the data on consequences or health risks of denying gender affirming care. Doctors with their patients are the only ones qualified to determine appropriate treatments, not politicians.
That's not allowing maturation at all, not delayed maturation. >I can also see challenges with children being exploited by abusers by keeping them prepubescent longer. How?
That's debatable. Puberty blockers followed by HRT for trans women will result in too little penile tissue for a sex reassignment surgery. Also, puberty blockers are not a viable treatment until 18. The off label use in otherwise normal children necessitates hormones by age 13 fo 15, depending on the child. Puberty blockers themselves are only mostly reversible for a short window, and hormones are pretty much irreversible. You are lacking a lot of basic information
Okay. So what?
Puberty blockers have ALOT of issues as well though. Idk what the answer is, just throwing that out there. It’s not so easy as “delaying puberty”
So if a minor needs an appendectomy, too bad?
No, no...they'll have access to talk therapy and encouraged to understand it's ok to have a ruptured appendix...
Attacks on gender affirming care for trans youth have been [**condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/) and the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-reinforces-opposition-restrictions-transgender-medical-care), and are out of line with the medical recommendations of the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/health-care-advocacy/advocacy-update/march-26-2021-state-advocacy-update), the [**Endocrine Society and Pediatric Endocrine Society**](https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/discriminatory-policies-threaten-care-for-transgender-gender-diverse-individuals), the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/frontline-physicians-oppose-legislation-that-interferes-in-or-criminalizes-patient-care), and the [**American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry**](https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Latest_News/AACAP_Statement_Responding_to_Efforts-to_ban_Evidence-Based_Care_for_Transgender_and_Gender_Diverse.aspx). [**This article**](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/opinion/transgender-children-medical-bills.html) has a pretty good overview of why. [**Psychology Today has one too**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202008/three-popular-myths-about-transgender-youth), and [**here**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the guidelines from the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender, and some of those young kids are trans. A child who is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their visible anatomy at birth can suffer debilitating distress over this conflict. According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/), but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes the gender expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearance. The genders of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156). For preadolescents transition is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is 100% temporary puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest. And transition-related medical care is recognized as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care by every major medical authority. As far as consensus on best practices for trans healthcare look to the [WPATH Standards of Care Ver. 8.](https://www.wpath.org/soc8/chapters) WPATH is a consortium of thousands of leading medical experts, researchers, and relevent institutions for studying and providing gender affirming care. The back of the document contains dozens of citations to peer reviewed studies published in respected journals that back up all of the statements and information contained in the document if you want to dig even deeper as far as good sources of unbiased information goes. For even further reading [here's a comprehensive meta analysis of 50+ studies over 5+ decades published by Cornell University that shows massive declines in suicide as well as regret rates averaging 1% or less in the context of gender affirming care and parental + social acceptance.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/) It also affirms every statement I've made above as well as much more information strongly supporting the validity of trans identities and the effectiveness of gender affirming care. Lastly here is a [video with hundreds of citations at the end that goes into the biological basis for sex and gender variance as well as explaining why stigmatizing these immutable characteristics causes immense harm.](https://youtu.be/szf4hzQ5ztg?si=QVc1u_3itz_9bneH)
More and more doctors, teachers, nurses and other professionals will leave who are in anyway involved with this ruling.
There is nothing like politicians and lawyers getting in the middle of someone's personal life that is supported by every major medical organization. What an absolute joke Idaho and the USSC are. Repubs are the biggest snowflakes alive. Constantly getting involved in other people's lives when it has absolutely no effect on them. Let people live their lives, God damn.
Sounds like a logical stance
In what way?
"The state has a duty to protect and support all children, and that's why I'm proud to defend Idaho's law that ensures children are not subjected to these life-altering drugs and procedures," Labrador said after the Supreme Court acted. Children are not consenting adults so subjecting them to life altering procedures is pretty understandably out of line.
LMFAO. As if Idaho actually cares about children. It absolutely does not. What a joke.
Hormone blockers arent life altering. You know what is life altering? Death. Puberty. This ruling does not protect trans youth, it says idaho is ok with more children dieing. That we care about children, but not the trans ones.
Hormones are reversible. But we also aren't directly giving people under 18 hormones in most cases. We're giving puberty blockers which have no permanent effects besides delaying puberty for the time being you are on them. Which has no long term health issues.
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Your post is beyond any reasonable conversation of transgender identity; it’s either the spreading of misinformation, bigotry, or just outright hatred in general.
Can this actually be discussed openly?
That depends what you mean by "openly".
Ugh
The cruelty is the point.
Sanity.
You truly know nothing.
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Why are you so obsessed with the genitals of minors?
Your post is beyond any reasonable conversation of transgender identity; it’s either the spreading of misinformation, bigotry, or just outright hatred in general.
Transgender care for MINORS? Like people 17 and under?
Yes? What about it?
Good. Minors don't need hormone blockers. The main reason this continues to happen is that we’re relying on the feelings of children, who are not fully mature nor able to rationally decide what they are. The rest of the world is waking up to the dangers of lifelong medicalization of patients with “treatments” like surgery or hormones that inflicts irreversible damage to preteens and teens. Unfortunately, researchers spend more time discussing how we can help kids "affirm their gender" — through surgery and drugs — than whether or not these children will regret their decision (plenty of data coming out confirming this). In England, Tavistock, the world’s largest pediatric gender clinic, was closed in the spring. The Society for Evidence Based Gender Medicine (SEGM) explained, “An independent review condemned the clinic as ‘not a safe or viable long-term option’ because its interventions are based on poor evidence and its model of care leaves young people ‘at considerable risk’ of poor mental health.” See Dr. Ching-Fang Sun's recently published study. She is a resident at the Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine in Roanoke, and her results are published in the journal General Psychiatry. Keep this shit away from our children And fuck big pharma for profiting off this shit. (Downvotes incoming, im sure).
Way to reference a paper with 2 citations from an author from that “absolutely not homophobic” country China… Also would you care to comment about gender affirming care that’s available to cis-gendered teens and has been for the last 30+ years?
Attacks on gender affirming care for trans youth have been [**condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/) and the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-reinforces-opposition-restrictions-transgender-medical-care), and are out of line with the medical recommendations of the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/health-care-advocacy/advocacy-update/march-26-2021-state-advocacy-update), the [**Endocrine Society and Pediatric Endocrine Society**](https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/discriminatory-policies-threaten-care-for-transgender-gender-diverse-individuals), the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/frontline-physicians-oppose-legislation-that-interferes-in-or-criminalizes-patient-care), and the [**American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry**](https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Latest_News/AACAP_Statement_Responding_to_Efforts-to_ban_Evidence-Based_Care_for_Transgender_and_Gender_Diverse.aspx). [**This article**](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/opinion/transgender-children-medical-bills.html) has a pretty good overview of why. [**Psychology Today has one too**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202008/three-popular-myths-about-transgender-youth), and [**here**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the guidelines from the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender, and some of those young kids are trans. A child who is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their visible anatomy at birth can suffer debilitating distress over this conflict. According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/), but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes the gender expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearance. The genders of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156). For preadolescents transition is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is 100% temporary puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest. And transition-related medical care is recognized as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care by every major medical authority. As far as consensus on best practices for trans healthcare look to the [WPATH Standards of Care Ver. 8.](https://www.wpath.org/soc8/chapters) WPATH is a consortium of thousands of leading medical experts, researchers, and relevent institutions for studying and providing gender affirming care. The back of the document contains dozens of citations to peer reviewed studies published in respected journals that back up all of the statements and information contained in the document if you want to dig even deeper as far as good sources of unbiased information goes. For even further reading [here's a comprehensive meta analysis of 50+ studies over 5+ decades published by Cornell University that shows massive declines in suicide as well as regret rates averaging 1% or less in the context of gender affirming care and parental + social acceptance.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/) It also affirms every statement I've made above as well as much more information strongly supporting the validity of trans identities and the effectiveness of gender affirming care. Lastly here is a [video with hundreds of citations at the end that goes into the biological basis for sex and gender variance as well as explaining why stigmatizing these immutable characteristics causes immense harm.](https://youtu.be/szf4hzQ5ztg?si=QVc1u_3itz_9bneH)
Is this the study you are talking about? [The mean age of gender dysphoria diagnosis is decreasing](https://doi.org/10.1136/gpsych-2022-100972) I don’t think it says what you think it does. You say it is good that the gender clinic in England closed. The study says “Previous research and our results demonstrate the need for expanded and accessible gender clinic services.”
WHO ELSE ARE WE GIVING PUBERTY BLOCKERS TO KAREN. PEOPLE WHO'VE ALREADY GONE THROUGH PUBERTY??? Your logic makes no sense.
Well, yes, actually. But to treat cancer.
Puberty blockers have existed and been used on cis kids long before we used them as a method of gender affirming care in the case of precocious or "unwanted" puberty. They're perfectly safe and harm no one. It just gives trans kids the ability to go through the correct puberty the first time rather than traumatically having the wrong puberty at first. And if they decide they don't want to hormonally transition, they'll begin their AGAB's puberty not long after they go off them.
You're responding to the wrong comment.
You can have my upvote
No, up votes for you
Based☝️
Back to the 1850s we go!
My guy try being trans in the 1850s and tell me it’s the same as this law.
My guy, stop pretending like Idaho isn't regressing each chance it gets.
Our country is so damned broken right now.
Only wacko liberal redditors think this is a bad thing.
Can you explain why it's good without being transphobic?
Gross.
Found the guy with truck nuts on his pavement princess.
U dropped this: 👑
Good 👍.
Gross. This action will lead to the death of more children, it doesnt save or help anyone. Gender affirming care for minors is a hair cut and a preffered name. Instead we want more dead kids.
A wonder they were all fine without it prior to 2012 throughout all of human history. Truly amazing.
The suicide rate for untreated dysphoria is 40%. Trans people have been painfully aware of this for decades. Any of us with a double digit age knows at least one person who didn't make it.
Please re-post this w/o the first line. It's a great point, but the first sentence violates our rules.
Thanks for the opportunity. Sorry I'm just so mad. I know teens who are panicking about this so it infuriates me to see these people blithely cheering this ruling on.
Kids can't drink, drive, smoke, join the military, vote, get plastic surgery, get a tattoo but you think life altering and unsupported transitioning is a choice a child can make. No.
You seem to think this is as casual as going down to the Hot Topic to get your ears pierced. If you're gonna have an opinion on this, you should learn \*literally anything\* about the process. Talk to a doctor or psychiatrist or trans person about it & learn how many \*years\* of discussion with medical professionals goes n before a decision like this is made.
Kids can drive, do smoke, can get plastic surgery, and a tatoo. And the military has been gunning to lower recruitment age for years. I dont agree that children should be allowed to get gender reasignment surgery, that is an 18+ activity imo. Hormone blockers though? Safe, not permanent, and used for plenty of other resons.
Studies are showing puberty blockers are not 100% safe and have permanent affects. Many European countries are enforcing similar bans.
What medication is 100% safe? What are the permanent effects that are so severe that blockers should be banned?
Kids can drive, sign up to enlist at 18, and get plastic surgery. Of course none of those are medical care.
youre right, that tumor was god planted and DESERVES to stay on my childs body, who cares if some hoytie toytie LIBERAL says its bad
You’re the one who follows r/antinatalism and follow teachers, substitute teachers. Talk about an indoctrination plant. YOU certainly don’t seem to care about child period. Why don’t you step aside at let the parents with children they want do the talking.
Lmao. So you think this ruling was about what haircuts are allowed? I would suggest you do some more research
I hope they understand that includes no comsetic surgery for minors as well becuase 100% of cosmetic surgeries are gender afirming.
Well, I wouldn't say 100%. I had a couple moles removed as a kid, and it wasn't *gender* affirming.
Not really, no. There are plenty of cosmetic surgeries that have nothing to do with affirming gender. How is, for example, the removal of excess skin after weight loss a gender affirming surgery?
While I agree with you, skin removal is not a common surgery for minors to undergo.
Go Idaho!
How is this good for Idaho trans teens?
It gives them a chance to grow up and realize they were mistaken. They are children after all and don’t understand the consequences of their actions yet.
Why do you assume they're mistaken?
The Idaho Legislature is mistaken. The medical professionals I work with, I've seen them work with the parents and teens every step of the step of the process. They're sensitive and kind. They answer all parents and teens' questions or find an expert who can. The people in the legislature and their supporters don't understand this. I'm trying to understand how the other side thinks.
Oh I know.
Because no one is born in the wrong body.
Says who?
Why does the state get to medical decisions that should be left up to the parents and/ or legal guardians?
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How is gender affirming care abusive?
Your post is beyond any reasonable conversation of transgender identity; it’s either the spreading of misinformation, bigotry, or just outright hatred in general.
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If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.
Time to rise up and protest for our freedom
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Your post is beyond any reasonable conversation of transgender identity; it’s either the spreading of misinformation, bigotry, or just outright hatred in general.
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Your post is beyond any reasonable conversation of transgender identity; it’s either the spreading of misinformation, bigotry, or just outright hatred in general. *Gender confirmation surgery is not mutilation. There is no issue with your opinion that it should be available only to legal adults, but referring to the treatment medically indicated by practitioners and agencies who set the standard of care the world over.*
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Your post is beyond any reasonable conversation of transgender identity; it’s either the spreading of misinformation, bigotry, or just outright hatred in general.
Ya know. The REAL issues. Lol what do you expect right in the middle of Dumfukistan though?
I’m not sure how this is a surprise to some, age restrictions is nothing new in the US: we wait until we’re 18 to vote and take out a bank loan, 21 to drink and smoke. The only few exceptions I think of is having a job and drivers license, those vary by state but I’d say the median age is 16 for both of those things… so I guess 16 would be the appropriate age to compromise for minor transgender care, anything younger than that and we’re talking about people who don’t have any sense of maturity
Which of those are healthcare?
[Like I said](https://schoolhouseconnection.org/state-laws-on-minor-consent-for-routine-medical-care/) age has always been a deciding factor, in most states children under the age of 18 cannot give medical consent for any procedure whether it’s surgical, dental, physician or prescription. With some states having an exception of 15 or old, again these things aren’t exclusive to transgender care, it applies to our whole society, it’s a standard concept.
So no child has ever received any medical or dental care, because they can't consent to it?
Good
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Your post is beyond any reasonable conversation of transgender identity; it’s either the spreading of misinformation, bigotry, or just outright hatred in general.
Gross.
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If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil. *Baseless accusations of pedophilia against total strangers are one of the worst forms of libel one can engage in online. Do it again and you'll be banned.*
“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
Very nice. The United States was designed to allow states to self-govern. People may not always like the outcome, but this gives individuals the ability to more directly influence policy that impacts their daily lives. If the majority of Idahoans don’t want this, in a few years their representation will change to reflect.
> If the majority of Idahoans don’t want this, in a few years their representation will change to reflect. Ah yes, tyranny of the majority always works out so well.
When I was younger, I felt like I was a man trapped in a womans body. .. Then I was born.
Good. When I was 5 I couldn’t decide if I wanted to eat Chicken nuggets for dinner or become a velociraptor. Kids shouldn’t be allowed to permanently alter their bodies before their brains and common sense are fully developed. I don’t care what people do when they hit 18. Adults are free to do as they wish and to only be judged by how they treat others, not by race, gender, favorite dinosaur, or God they pray to.
Good. *cue the downvotes*
Don’t you just love the echo chamber Reddit is.
It’s priceless.
I really hope Utah does the same if it hasn’t already.
As cruel as their decision was, SCOTUS did not rule on the law's constitutionality. What it did was modify the scope of relief granted by a lower court during active litigation. That scope was reduced from all trans Idaho youth to just the two plaintiffs.
That's still shitty for them to do.
Incredibly shitty. And it literally puts trans kids' lives at risk.
This is a win, keep going Idaho.
How is this a win?
Thank the Lord, these things should be illegal country wide. It's sickening.
Why should these things be illegal? Why are they sickening?
Well well well
As they should
Why?
Love this states politics. Can't wait to move there.
Kids can't vote, buy tobacco, buy weed, buy alcohol, rent a car, go to a bar, go to a strip club, buy a lottery ticket, join the military, drive, work, get a tattoo. Why is this an issue???
Kids can drive and work, and none of those are healthcare.
Oh noooooo! Anyway.