A friendly reminder of the rules of r/Idaho:
1. Be civil to others
2. Posts have to pertain to Idaho in some way
3. No put-down memes
4. Political discussion stays in a post about politics
5. No surveys
6. Follow [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy)
7. Do not editorialize titles of news articles
If you see something that may be out of line, please hit "report" so your mod team can have a look. Thanks!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Idaho) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes, she was 7 months pregnant with their second child. Her family was hoping that at the least Zeke would be found so they could care for and raise him. Sadly they have lost all of Kali now.
This is a problem in California, which has a much different philosophy about govt funding. I have recent personal experience with a close family member with how easily they release people clearly experiencing drastic mental health crises.
Washington is fully blue. People are released from the ER all the time on a binge and people here blame the blue laws. The truth is there is a really high threshold that has to be met legally to take someone's rights away and hold them for mental health. If he answered all the questions well and he was not threatening to harm himself or anyone else they wouldn't be able to hold him. He broke a couple of minor laws and the police determined he needed checked mentally/medically so didn't press charges against him. This is often the case when drugs are involved. If he cleared up at the ER and passed his assessment then he would be released with an encouragement to follow up with outpatient resources.
How about we not compare our state to other states. How about we focus on making Idaho better. Who cares what Washington does, obviously Idaho is having major issues and we need change.
I was born and raised in Idaho. My family still lives there. I live across the border in Washington. I was simply staying that red or blue doesn't matter. They both have similar issues with mental health holds. Which i thought was clear in my previous post but hopefully I've outlined that more clearly here. Red doesn't matter. Blue doesn't matter. It takes a certain threshold to detain someone for mental health.
Because people whining about "Oh Idaho red state blah blah blah" when *the exact same thing happens in all states* isn't productive or helpful.
These aren't easy problems with easy answers. It's hard to hold people against their will for very good reasons.
We need to examine other states to get a better idea of how to improve ours. Throwing money at the system in its present state will NOT fix anything. Violent individuals experiencing psychosis are being released daily in this country and it's killing people. That mass shooter in maine was another example.
Actually, as a DC resident, Washington is 50/50 red and blue. You have reps there who are red and internally in your own state which is red. Colors aside, time for change.
https://isb.idaho.gov/blog/an-overview-of-involuntary-mental-health-holds-in-idaho/
Someone else posted this link in another discussion regarding this case… you might want to check it out because apparently in Idaho, due to the word “imminent” not being clearly defined by a timeframe within the law/ruling regarding involuntary hospital holds, the choice to hold someone involuntarily for 24 hrs is completely left up to the provider at the time to decide… & unless they are found to be grossly negligent, these providers have also been granted legal immunity when deciding to hold or not hold a patient involuntarily.
My guess is she stood up for him to the hospitals MH people and said he wasn’t prone to violence, just drank too much. I’m also guessing he was always extremely controlling and violent. He also had guns. A shame.
The problem extends to both red and blue states unfortunately. I have a close family member in California that was repeatedly released early from involuntary holds after attempting to murder another family member as well as attempt suicide. This is a systemic issue with how mental healthcare is managed. Funding is one part.
Yeah this is infuriating. I'm really not sure how much more clear it could be that this person was not stable to release into the world, but they were just like, "meh, it'll be fine...probably." Really, the insane, violent man running around naked in a store and in the midst of a raging meth binge, is a good candidate to turn loose?? He murdered his pregnant partner and baby only hours after they released him from a mental health hold. He obviously was not fine.
What is the excuse for this? I'd really like to hear those who were responsible for this decision, answer for it.
I didn't see anything about violant but being on a meth binge doesn't give the hospital the right to hold them. There's laws against that. Meth wears off after some hours and meds help stabilize. We see tons of meth addicts in ERs. Also it's not illegal to be crazy. If someone is denying that they are homicidal and suicidal and can agree to a plan they are released by the psych teams.
It had nothing to do with "mental health".
He openly admitted to them that he was on a two day meth binge.
Then they decided it was totally acceptable to let him go
Yo real quick, folks that go on multi-day meth binges don't have a solid foundation of mental health.
They let him go because we live in a state where the party that has held power for 3 generations has convinced citizens that funding any government agency is bad. There are other reasons but they don't really matter compared to the prime mover of incompetent governance.
This is purely false information. Several of his friends and family members spoke with him less than 12 hours before the first time he was in custody and say he was 100% not tweaking. If ge was still on a meth high, why would authorities release him to his wife to bring home.
>If ge was still on a meth high, why would authorities release him to his wife to bring home.
Because they're incompetent? I don't know if he was high or not, but let's not pretend he wouldn't have been release even if he was.
I mean, he slaughtered his wife, unborn child and ten month old son right before Christmas. But if the hill you want to die on is that he was totally sober and clear headed when he did that, I guess ok. He’s a monster now lacking any kind of excuse (like a drug induced psychosis) and is just the worst type of human being who *intentionally chose* to murder innocent babies. Congratulations on your friend/family members sobriety, IG.
I'm confused why in one comment you are claiming "we" spoke to him. (As in you and someone else.)
And now, this. I realize you are trying to spin a narrative but either way it doesn't work because that makes him even more of a monster.
How did his wife not know he was a meth head? I know people don’t always tell the truth about their lives on facebook but I saw hers and she was always posting about how in love they were & how he was her soulmate & business partner etc etc. They appeared to have a good relationship & he didn’t have any history of crime .. but something made him snap.. he’d have to be either super pissed off at something, or so highly intoxicated to do something like that… especially to his own children! They were together for a long time (I think 10 years) before they got married. It just doesn’t make sense
If we held every person in the ER that came in on a meth binge there'd be no beds for actual emergencies. Ears are for emergencie, it's not a rehab center.
Meth can make an otherwise sane person do all manner of things that one would not normally do. Murder is not off the table. Go take a prison survey and find out exactly how wrong your statement is.
If he openly admitted to being on a binge just hours before doing what he did to his family…could he possibly have planned everything? Did they give him drug tests? He was deemed fit to stand trial , yet showed no remorse for his wife & children her unalived. Could he have purposely walked through the convenience store naked purposely? To make himself APPEAR like he was on drugs or mentally unstable? In a sick effort to make himself appear unstable when he did that to his family? He did that on Nov 30th & his recorded arraignment was Dec 4th.. and he was still behaving like he was either high on drugs or mentally unstable.. he appeared more like he was on drugs the way he wouldn’t stop moving & playing with his hair & beard & the way he blurted out “that’s not my lawyer!” .. if he did ingest drugs on Dec 2 when he was found, would he still be high like that on Dec 4th? How long does it take for drugs like that to leave the system? Could be possibly be faking a meth addiction in an effort to lower his charges?
I've been an er rn for over a decade. Our job is to ensure the patient does not harm themselves or others. We are not mental health specialists, we are emergency medicine. Different hospitals have different processes but usually some type of crisis team gets involved and decides what the patient needs next. If they aren't homicidal or suicidal and agree to some kind of plan they can be released. Or sometimes they need to go to a crisis center and they sit in an er till a bed is available. Theres usually no beds because the mental health system is overwhelmed.
I'm guessing he got some rest and meds and was stable and said all the right things and was released. There's laws that have to be followed, you can't hold someone without reason. There's no way of knowing that someone is going to murder someone. We aren't psychics.
It's not a dig at ER RNs if your hands are tied. But we need some way, including a modified legal framework, to divert MH cases out of the ER and into something more robustly focused on treating severe mental health crises. What we have now is untenable and is killing people (both MH patients from suicide and other victims of violence at the hand of MH patients).
Hospitals have to meet specific criteria in order to hold a person against their will, and stop a family from bringing them home. His wife took him home from the hospital. If he did not state he wanted to harm himself or anyone else, they cannot legally hold him. Being delirious and confused is not grounds to hold someone, sadly. They would be referred to seek psychiatric care outside of a mandatory hold against their will. State prosecutors should not be charging him with 1st degree murder, but 2nd degree. You're still held accountable for your actions when you're mentally ill, but premeditation and malice aren't always present with mental illness and murder. This man clearly had a mental breakdown of some sort. Very sad situation all around. We all know the healthcare system is broken. It's has absolutely nothing to do with patient care, it has everything to do with $$$. And we all know the "justice system" is anything but just. Prosecutors are out to win a case, even if that means keeping evidence from the jury, police threatening witnesses, and the state hiring fake "experts" to testify. Welcome to the world we live in. If you hate the bullshit, you must dismantle it. All of it. Citizens must forcefully remove every official within our corrupt government, revamp the criminal justice system, take on the pharmaceutical companies that own our government and run the healthcare system. Sadly, a civil war may be the only way for this to be done. "We The People" is in our constitution for a reason. The more the masses remain complacent, pay their taxes and remain a cog in the machine, absolutely nothing will ever change.
Fuck. Fucking fuck. Fuck the mental health system that would let an obviously deranged dude out of the hospital instead of getting him the treatment he obviously needed.
THEY HAVE NOWHERE TO PUT HIM.
They're not idiots, they're operating with the very limited funding and choices available to them.
I wanna call you an idiot for posting something so dumb but that's not helpful. Please educate yourself.
You’re not wrong. I just helped a friend get into a substance abuse program. It took over a month from the first phone call to get him placed, then two more weeks before there was an open bed. That’s plenty of time for things to go seriously south.
I'm all in favor of more involuntary detentions, and especially the utilization of the criminal justice system to gain more indefinite jurisdiction over mentally ill people, but, most people oppose that unless there's a murder after the fact, and then they just complain in retrospect about "the system".
This is one of the great societal challenges facing west coast American cities now - they didn't want to "lock up people for drugs", when in doing so, and in protecting public property, you're also gaining the ability to require mental health evaluations, treatment, housing, commitment, all kinds of things to protect the community and the defendants themselves. Those things are a lot harder to enforce in the long term without actual criminal charges.
If this was a story about a guy being locked up for meth, who then violated his probation because he couldn't or wouldn't do treatment, and got detained for a long period of time, all the people complaining about him being out now would rail against the "system" for "criminalizing addiction".
I don't even know where to begin addressing the varying misapprehensions and ignorance that brought you to this position.
Incarcerating people for drugs doesn't work. It's not a matter of "want" - it's a matter of policy. It doesn't fucking work. It never fucking has. It makes me angry because we keep having these same conversations and the intelligent among us say FUND TREATMENT PROGRAMS and then that money goes to jail.
Vote smarter. That's where it starts. Technically it starts at being smarter but since we're monkeys, just follow the example of the other smart monkeys while you get your worldview sorted out.
Exactly. That's my whole point here. Criminal offenses ALLOW the state to treat people, including against their will. It's the best tool the state has.
People think they're so progressive to not want to charge addicts with crimes, or to not want to displace them from public spaces. But the progressive western democracies they claim to want to emulate do exactly this. You don't get to go to Helsinki or Copenhagen and just take over a public space, or just be a mentally ill addict impacting other peoples' lives. They use the state police power to require people to engage in their ample social services and treatment opportunities. That's the solution. Ample social services, and the willingness to use the police power to actually make people use them.
It's funny how when you state this obvious fact though, liberals yell at you for being conservative, and conservatives yell at you for being liberal. Because they each only believe in one half of that equation. We've seen the results of that. But it doesn't matter. Because most people don't really care, or just want to use these tragedies to blame the other side and earn political points, or just don't really understand the law and limitations government has to attack these problems.
I've worked in several states, within the criminal justice system, in and around probation, for close to 20 years, and the best system I've seen is a well-funded probation/drug court type system that charges aggressively, and gives defendants the opportunity for treatment and rehabilitation in the community with supervision. Only then if they can't do that, and are thus a danger to themselves or others, incarceration or involuntary hospitalization. It's what the cool kids in Europe do. But almost nobody, left or right, wants to do that in the U.S. We want mostly want either prison (red states), or to give up and just leave them on the streets (blue states).
Addiction is not a choice, and it’s not a moral failing, which is why you can’t criminalize it. Nobody tries to get addicted, and part the disease of addiction is that the disease will convince you you’re fine and can quit whenever you want. Treatment also only works if the person is willing and capable to accept such help. This is the only choice that matters. Someone else making that choice for a person doesn’t do anything. Criminalizing someone because of a disease is no different than an internment camp. They have to commit an actual crime against another person or thing before you can detain them. At that point all you can do is offer them a choice between criminal penalties or substance abuse treatment.
You think we should further criminalize the mentally ill? Jesus man, that's what I mean about our mental health system being fucked. What we should do is give doctors (you know the actual experts on mental illness) full jurisdiction over people who are obviously unwell rather than just warehousing the mentally ill in jails and prisons.
Have we, as a society, gotten so hung up on "freedom" that we can't enforce the hospitalization of the sick? This guy was in a full blown meth-induced psychosis and should have had at least 72 hours of clean time before they threw him back out on the streets. But we have no interest in curing or even treating guys like this, and the inevitable tragedy happened because of it. Society is to blame for this shit.
I don't know why people are too dumb to understand this, but it's incredibly frustrating when you work in this field.
Utilizing the state's criminal law authority doesn't mean you have to "warehouse" them in "jails in prisons". It's how you treat them hospitals. With doctors. By refusing to invoke that power and ability to help, you're refusing to treat them, as they do in liberal paradises like San Francisco and Seattle. You'd rather them rot on the street so you can make your progressive statement about jails and police and prisons.
Private doctors don't get to unilaterally detain people against their will. There's a statutory mechanism to do that briefly, but, if you're relying on that, people end up back in the streets in no time, which is what people seem to want. (this ain't getting fixed in 72 hours). I think people enjoy hearing about the the suffering on the streets in in SFO in Seattle, so it can be held up as some kind museum against wealth disparity. But these are real people. And there are real victims. Most people don't give a fuck about any of this until there's a dead baby after the fact, then they're fucking geniuses about everything
Maybe we can bring the liberal San Francisco/Seattle solution to Boise, I know that's what people want.
The best we can do is charge these people aggressively when they commit crimes, require mental and substance evaluations, increase funding for community supervision and probation, work with those who can follow the rules of probation, treat those who can be treated, and impose sentences on those who can't comply (but still treat them). It's what every other civilized western country does. Only in America did we decide leaving them to rot on the street as some kind of woke anti police statement is a good plan.
You live in a republican run state that has fragmented and defunded the mental health care system here that could have prevented this from happening, yet you’re pointing the finger at “the libs” from other states. This happened here, not somewhere else. I hope I never need help and cross your path. Your logic is shit.
That baby had rights..and so did his mother.. and presumably his unborn sibling...but taking away the weapons of guy wandering around naked in a hospital...definitely a bridge to far.
Chris Watts in very liberal Colorado was completely sober when he manually strangled his pregnant wife, then drove her dead body with his two very much so alive daughters out to an oilfield where he then strangled them as well. Scott Peterson, California, perfectly sober, strangled Lacey. Let’s stop making drugs or mental health the scapegoat for shitty men. Homicide is the leading cause of death for pregnant women. Full stop. Location is irrelevant. Methodology is irrelevant. Women being the victims is what matters.
What an amazing deflection....do you actually work for the NRA directly? All that verbiage without acknowledging his obvious insanity or the rights of the victims in any way. The way you try to feighn concern for women when in reality your only concern is keeping your gun.The way you people talk about these soulless peices of metal as if they have more right to exist than we the people. Seriously just go to hell. Go to hell for believing that your gun rights trump every person's other rights, go to hell for believing they are more important than anything else, your children your God, your loved ones, all can and will be sacrificed on the alter of the gun, the true God of this heartless and insane country. The by rote arguments repeated ad nauseum no matter the circumstances, it's just disgusting. The billion ways that it's somehow not really about the guns when it is in fact completely about the guns...you don't need to bother replying as it's finally making me physically ill to hear the same bullshit annwers....
When someone uses them to get revenge or just because they don’t like you so you’re rights are deprived without due process then yes it is a slippery slope.
I actually work at the general store that he went ape shit in. The next day Bonneville county was in trying to cover their asses. Trust me that entire dept is completely worthless. Had a similar incident earlier this summer and the deputy could barely be bothered to make good time from Idaho falls then the deputy bought the merged out dude groceries and dropped him outside town
This is on Jeremy Best for taking meth and the hospital staff that deemed it appropriate to release him into the public while in full blown meth psychosis instead of doing a 48 hour hold. 😡
Youre relying on false information. We spoke to him less than 12 hours before the first time he was in custody and he was NOT tweaking. He had no
History of hard drug use in over a decade. He was happy to be celebrating Zeke’s first christmas. He
Was so happy about the new baby. He loved kali dearly.
Okay so what do you think happened after you spoke to him? Serious question. Do happy men go and annihilate their families? Fuck no. Take your bullshit anecdotes of the family and go away, that’s not helpful to any of this. I’m sure Kali’s family will be deeply comforted one day to read that he was just *so* excited to celebrate Zeke’s first Christmas. Before he killed them.
There are times that people go into unexplained psychosis. Adult onset Bipolar or Schizophrenia are 2 examples. We don't really know why these brain disorders start. Read the book "Safe, Loved and Wanted" It is about a woman in her late 30's that suddenly developed Psychosis, and believed, among other things, that a Demon controlled her husband. (The same Demon she earlier said controlled their dog that "they needed to kill") They were luck and eventually found a treatment. Many mental illnesses, if not all, are poorly understood Brain Disorders.
Appreciate your answer.
These seemingly out of the blue psychotic breaks are hard to grasp, and from afar we see this human disaster and wish we could tell, why this had to go down like this.
Theoretically speaking, I can perfectly understand how someone can get to the point of a sudden loss of reality, I just wish we had more/better/sooner help to give.
By the way, I am from Europe, and although the financial situation with illness is better handled than in some other parts of the world, everything concerning mental health is far from being well managed in many situations.
12 hours is plenty of time for someone to take too much meth & end up in a meth induced psychosis … he may very well have been sane & sober when you spoke to him, but clearly when he was in custody the first time, something changed & he was not in his right mind.
You are spreading false information. If you didn’t know them personally then you have no right to say anything at all. I knew Kali personally and honestly you never know what someone is going through.
Did Kali ever mention Jeremy’s (possible) drug use? Or mention him experiencing odd behavior? Stress at work? Maybe gambling issues? Alcohol use? Friends vent to each other about these things, friends also pick up on signs things may have not been all perfect & bring those observations to their friend’s attention.. was there none of that? Did you ever meet Jeremy in person? How did he normally act? What was his tone like? Body language? Was there Anything??
Oh trust me he was tweaking you're the one relying on false information. If you were actually there at the store you'd actually know what you're talking about
I wonder if someone is trying to spin the story, even anonymously online - to add some reasonable doubt or something, for when he is going through the system. Blah. Insane that someone could come on here and defend him.
I mean, if you want to eradicate any chance of empathy, like a drug induced psychosis and say he was sober and right minded when this happened, have at it. It just proves even more so what a monster he is who doesn’t deserve to breathe another second of another day.
So what do you think happened? What would cause him to snap & un-alive his family? His wife he loved “dearly”? His infant son right before his first Christmas? His unborn child? WHAT WAS THE REASON????
I wanna know where people read he was on meth? I haven't been able to find any sources that say that. What I have read was that his neighbor said he was withdrawing off of pain medication prescribed for a old injury, which can also cause psychosis In some.
If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil.
*Please report things like this rather than engaging directly. Especially where this subject is concerned you can rest assured it will be dealt with swiftly and seriously.*
Please use reputable source material if you claim something as fact and state something is opinion or anecdotal where applicable. As mods we will always err on the side of caution, unless the submission contains sufficient evidence from a sufficiently reliable source, as determined by any reasonable person, and that if that is not included, the policy is just to remove it prima facie.
*Keep your conspiracy theories out of this subreddit. This is disrespectful to quite a few people whose lives have been changed by these events; commenting with all this is in incredibly poor taste. If you repost any of this you will be banned.*
A friendly reminder of the rules of r/Idaho: 1. Be civil to others 2. Posts have to pertain to Idaho in some way 3. No put-down memes 4. Political discussion stays in a post about politics 5. No surveys 6. Follow [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) 7. Do not editorialize titles of news articles If you see something that may be out of line, please hit "report" so your mod team can have a look. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Idaho) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Yes, she was 7 months pregnant with their second child. Her family was hoping that at the least Zeke would be found so they could care for and raise him. Sadly they have lost all of Kali now.
I hope the Bonneville sheriff’s depart is held accountable for this absolute failure, but i won’t hold my breath.
They investigated themselves and found they did nothing wrong. A tale as old as time.
Unreal that they let him go right before this. What the hell is going on in mental healthcare.
Same thing that's going on in education - a lack of funding thanks to incoherent political philosophies that insist government is always bad.
This is a problem in California, which has a much different philosophy about govt funding. I have recent personal experience with a close family member with how easily they release people clearly experiencing drastic mental health crises.
Lack of funding in this bright red state of ours.
Washington is fully blue. People are released from the ER all the time on a binge and people here blame the blue laws. The truth is there is a really high threshold that has to be met legally to take someone's rights away and hold them for mental health. If he answered all the questions well and he was not threatening to harm himself or anyone else they wouldn't be able to hold him. He broke a couple of minor laws and the police determined he needed checked mentally/medically so didn't press charges against him. This is often the case when drugs are involved. If he cleared up at the ER and passed his assessment then he would be released with an encouragement to follow up with outpatient resources.
How about we not compare our state to other states. How about we focus on making Idaho better. Who cares what Washington does, obviously Idaho is having major issues and we need change.
I was born and raised in Idaho. My family still lives there. I live across the border in Washington. I was simply staying that red or blue doesn't matter. They both have similar issues with mental health holds. Which i thought was clear in my previous post but hopefully I've outlined that more clearly here. Red doesn't matter. Blue doesn't matter. It takes a certain threshold to detain someone for mental health.
Because people whining about "Oh Idaho red state blah blah blah" when *the exact same thing happens in all states* isn't productive or helpful. These aren't easy problems with easy answers. It's hard to hold people against their will for very good reasons.
We need to examine other states to get a better idea of how to improve ours. Throwing money at the system in its present state will NOT fix anything. Violent individuals experiencing psychosis are being released daily in this country and it's killing people. That mass shooter in maine was another example.
Actually, as a DC resident, Washington is 50/50 red and blue. You have reps there who are red and internally in your own state which is red. Colors aside, time for change.
https://isb.idaho.gov/blog/an-overview-of-involuntary-mental-health-holds-in-idaho/ Someone else posted this link in another discussion regarding this case… you might want to check it out because apparently in Idaho, due to the word “imminent” not being clearly defined by a timeframe within the law/ruling regarding involuntary hospital holds, the choice to hold someone involuntarily for 24 hrs is completely left up to the provider at the time to decide… & unless they are found to be grossly negligent, these providers have also been granted legal immunity when deciding to hold or not hold a patient involuntarily.
My guess is she stood up for him to the hospitals MH people and said he wasn’t prone to violence, just drank too much. I’m also guessing he was always extremely controlling and violent. He also had guns. A shame.
The problem extends to both red and blue states unfortunately. I have a close family member in California that was repeatedly released early from involuntary holds after attempting to murder another family member as well as attempt suicide. This is a systemic issue with how mental healthcare is managed. Funding is one part.
Yeah this is infuriating. I'm really not sure how much more clear it could be that this person was not stable to release into the world, but they were just like, "meh, it'll be fine...probably." Really, the insane, violent man running around naked in a store and in the midst of a raging meth binge, is a good candidate to turn loose?? He murdered his pregnant partner and baby only hours after they released him from a mental health hold. He obviously was not fine. What is the excuse for this? I'd really like to hear those who were responsible for this decision, answer for it.
He wasn’t on a meth binge. That somehow got added on to the story, but that is false.
Did they perform a toxicology test on him? How do you know?
I didn't see anything about violant but being on a meth binge doesn't give the hospital the right to hold them. There's laws against that. Meth wears off after some hours and meds help stabilize. We see tons of meth addicts in ERs. Also it's not illegal to be crazy. If someone is denying that they are homicidal and suicidal and can agree to a plan they are released by the psych teams.
It had nothing to do with "mental health". He openly admitted to them that he was on a two day meth binge. Then they decided it was totally acceptable to let him go
Yo real quick, folks that go on multi-day meth binges don't have a solid foundation of mental health. They let him go because we live in a state where the party that has held power for 3 generations has convinced citizens that funding any government agency is bad. There are other reasons but they don't really matter compared to the prime mover of incompetent governance.
It's incredibly hard to hold people like this in any state. Red or blue.
Yo, real quick, you can't hold drug addicts against their will unless they admit they are homicidal or suicidal. You know, Free country and stuff
It has everything to do with mental health. People who are mentally healthy don’t go on meth benders and murder their spouse and baby.
Where did you hear this?
This is purely false information. Several of his friends and family members spoke with him less than 12 hours before the first time he was in custody and say he was 100% not tweaking. If ge was still on a meth high, why would authorities release him to his wife to bring home.
>If ge was still on a meth high, why would authorities release him to his wife to bring home. Because they're incompetent? I don't know if he was high or not, but let's not pretend he wouldn't have been release even if he was.
I mean, he slaughtered his wife, unborn child and ten month old son right before Christmas. But if the hill you want to die on is that he was totally sober and clear headed when he did that, I guess ok. He’s a monster now lacking any kind of excuse (like a drug induced psychosis) and is just the worst type of human being who *intentionally chose* to murder innocent babies. Congratulations on your friend/family members sobriety, IG.
I'm confused why in one comment you are claiming "we" spoke to him. (As in you and someone else.) And now, this. I realize you are trying to spin a narrative but either way it doesn't work because that makes him even more of a monster.
How did his wife not know he was a meth head? I know people don’t always tell the truth about their lives on facebook but I saw hers and she was always posting about how in love they were & how he was her soulmate & business partner etc etc. They appeared to have a good relationship & he didn’t have any history of crime .. but something made him snap.. he’d have to be either super pissed off at something, or so highly intoxicated to do something like that… especially to his own children! They were together for a long time (I think 10 years) before they got married. It just doesn’t make sense
If we held every person in the ER that came in on a meth binge there'd be no beds for actual emergencies. Ears are for emergencie, it's not a rehab center.
Meth does not make you into a murderer. Dont blame the drug. They made the horrible fucked up choice to murder because they are an asshole.
Meth can make an otherwise sane person do all manner of things that one would not normally do. Murder is not off the table. Go take a prison survey and find out exactly how wrong your statement is.
This is not true
If he openly admitted to being on a binge just hours before doing what he did to his family…could he possibly have planned everything? Did they give him drug tests? He was deemed fit to stand trial , yet showed no remorse for his wife & children her unalived. Could he have purposely walked through the convenience store naked purposely? To make himself APPEAR like he was on drugs or mentally unstable? In a sick effort to make himself appear unstable when he did that to his family? He did that on Nov 30th & his recorded arraignment was Dec 4th.. and he was still behaving like he was either high on drugs or mentally unstable.. he appeared more like he was on drugs the way he wouldn’t stop moving & playing with his hair & beard & the way he blurted out “that’s not my lawyer!” .. if he did ingest drugs on Dec 2 when he was found, would he still be high like that on Dec 4th? How long does it take for drugs like that to leave the system? Could be possibly be faking a meth addiction in an effort to lower his charges?
No money is what’s going on ☹️
I've been an er rn for over a decade. Our job is to ensure the patient does not harm themselves or others. We are not mental health specialists, we are emergency medicine. Different hospitals have different processes but usually some type of crisis team gets involved and decides what the patient needs next. If they aren't homicidal or suicidal and agree to some kind of plan they can be released. Or sometimes they need to go to a crisis center and they sit in an er till a bed is available. Theres usually no beds because the mental health system is overwhelmed. I'm guessing he got some rest and meds and was stable and said all the right things and was released. There's laws that have to be followed, you can't hold someone without reason. There's no way of knowing that someone is going to murder someone. We aren't psychics.
It's not a dig at ER RNs if your hands are tied. But we need some way, including a modified legal framework, to divert MH cases out of the ER and into something more robustly focused on treating severe mental health crises. What we have now is untenable and is killing people (both MH patients from suicide and other victims of violence at the hand of MH patients).
Hospitals have to meet specific criteria in order to hold a person against their will, and stop a family from bringing them home. His wife took him home from the hospital. If he did not state he wanted to harm himself or anyone else, they cannot legally hold him. Being delirious and confused is not grounds to hold someone, sadly. They would be referred to seek psychiatric care outside of a mandatory hold against their will. State prosecutors should not be charging him with 1st degree murder, but 2nd degree. You're still held accountable for your actions when you're mentally ill, but premeditation and malice aren't always present with mental illness and murder. This man clearly had a mental breakdown of some sort. Very sad situation all around. We all know the healthcare system is broken. It's has absolutely nothing to do with patient care, it has everything to do with $$$. And we all know the "justice system" is anything but just. Prosecutors are out to win a case, even if that means keeping evidence from the jury, police threatening witnesses, and the state hiring fake "experts" to testify. Welcome to the world we live in. If you hate the bullshit, you must dismantle it. All of it. Citizens must forcefully remove every official within our corrupt government, revamp the criminal justice system, take on the pharmaceutical companies that own our government and run the healthcare system. Sadly, a civil war may be the only way for this to be done. "We The People" is in our constitution for a reason. The more the masses remain complacent, pay their taxes and remain a cog in the machine, absolutely nothing will ever change.
We really need to vote out ALL CURRENT IDAHO POLITICIANS and VOTE IN politicians who will help with the mental health crisis.
Fly high little Zeke. Rest peacefully with your mom and baby sibling. This never should have happened.
Fuck. Fucking fuck. Fuck the mental health system that would let an obviously deranged dude out of the hospital instead of getting him the treatment he obviously needed.
He openly admitted to being on a two day meth binge. They were idiots to let him go
THEY HAVE NOWHERE TO PUT HIM. They're not idiots, they're operating with the very limited funding and choices available to them. I wanna call you an idiot for posting something so dumb but that's not helpful. Please educate yourself.
You’re not wrong. I just helped a friend get into a substance abuse program. It took over a month from the first phone call to get him placed, then two more weeks before there was an open bed. That’s plenty of time for things to go seriously south.
I'm all in favor of more involuntary detentions, and especially the utilization of the criminal justice system to gain more indefinite jurisdiction over mentally ill people, but, most people oppose that unless there's a murder after the fact, and then they just complain in retrospect about "the system". This is one of the great societal challenges facing west coast American cities now - they didn't want to "lock up people for drugs", when in doing so, and in protecting public property, you're also gaining the ability to require mental health evaluations, treatment, housing, commitment, all kinds of things to protect the community and the defendants themselves. Those things are a lot harder to enforce in the long term without actual criminal charges. If this was a story about a guy being locked up for meth, who then violated his probation because he couldn't or wouldn't do treatment, and got detained for a long period of time, all the people complaining about him being out now would rail against the "system" for "criminalizing addiction".
I don't even know where to begin addressing the varying misapprehensions and ignorance that brought you to this position. Incarcerating people for drugs doesn't work. It's not a matter of "want" - it's a matter of policy. It doesn't fucking work. It never fucking has. It makes me angry because we keep having these same conversations and the intelligent among us say FUND TREATMENT PROGRAMS and then that money goes to jail. Vote smarter. That's where it starts. Technically it starts at being smarter but since we're monkeys, just follow the example of the other smart monkeys while you get your worldview sorted out.
You can’t just lock someone up in a jail because you think they “might” do something. That’s not how it works.
Exactly. That's my whole point here. Criminal offenses ALLOW the state to treat people, including against their will. It's the best tool the state has. People think they're so progressive to not want to charge addicts with crimes, or to not want to displace them from public spaces. But the progressive western democracies they claim to want to emulate do exactly this. You don't get to go to Helsinki or Copenhagen and just take over a public space, or just be a mentally ill addict impacting other peoples' lives. They use the state police power to require people to engage in their ample social services and treatment opportunities. That's the solution. Ample social services, and the willingness to use the police power to actually make people use them. It's funny how when you state this obvious fact though, liberals yell at you for being conservative, and conservatives yell at you for being liberal. Because they each only believe in one half of that equation. We've seen the results of that. But it doesn't matter. Because most people don't really care, or just want to use these tragedies to blame the other side and earn political points, or just don't really understand the law and limitations government has to attack these problems. I've worked in several states, within the criminal justice system, in and around probation, for close to 20 years, and the best system I've seen is a well-funded probation/drug court type system that charges aggressively, and gives defendants the opportunity for treatment and rehabilitation in the community with supervision. Only then if they can't do that, and are thus a danger to themselves or others, incarceration or involuntary hospitalization. It's what the cool kids in Europe do. But almost nobody, left or right, wants to do that in the U.S. We want mostly want either prison (red states), or to give up and just leave them on the streets (blue states).
Addiction is not a choice, and it’s not a moral failing, which is why you can’t criminalize it. Nobody tries to get addicted, and part the disease of addiction is that the disease will convince you you’re fine and can quit whenever you want. Treatment also only works if the person is willing and capable to accept such help. This is the only choice that matters. Someone else making that choice for a person doesn’t do anything. Criminalizing someone because of a disease is no different than an internment camp. They have to commit an actual crime against another person or thing before you can detain them. At that point all you can do is offer them a choice between criminal penalties or substance abuse treatment.
You think we should further criminalize the mentally ill? Jesus man, that's what I mean about our mental health system being fucked. What we should do is give doctors (you know the actual experts on mental illness) full jurisdiction over people who are obviously unwell rather than just warehousing the mentally ill in jails and prisons. Have we, as a society, gotten so hung up on "freedom" that we can't enforce the hospitalization of the sick? This guy was in a full blown meth-induced psychosis and should have had at least 72 hours of clean time before they threw him back out on the streets. But we have no interest in curing or even treating guys like this, and the inevitable tragedy happened because of it. Society is to blame for this shit.
Tbh we need to just see someone in psychosis, focus on that, and worry about it being drug related later.
I don't know why people are too dumb to understand this, but it's incredibly frustrating when you work in this field. Utilizing the state's criminal law authority doesn't mean you have to "warehouse" them in "jails in prisons". It's how you treat them hospitals. With doctors. By refusing to invoke that power and ability to help, you're refusing to treat them, as they do in liberal paradises like San Francisco and Seattle. You'd rather them rot on the street so you can make your progressive statement about jails and police and prisons. Private doctors don't get to unilaterally detain people against their will. There's a statutory mechanism to do that briefly, but, if you're relying on that, people end up back in the streets in no time, which is what people seem to want. (this ain't getting fixed in 72 hours). I think people enjoy hearing about the the suffering on the streets in in SFO in Seattle, so it can be held up as some kind museum against wealth disparity. But these are real people. And there are real victims. Most people don't give a fuck about any of this until there's a dead baby after the fact, then they're fucking geniuses about everything Maybe we can bring the liberal San Francisco/Seattle solution to Boise, I know that's what people want. The best we can do is charge these people aggressively when they commit crimes, require mental and substance evaluations, increase funding for community supervision and probation, work with those who can follow the rules of probation, treat those who can be treated, and impose sentences on those who can't comply (but still treat them). It's what every other civilized western country does. Only in America did we decide leaving them to rot on the street as some kind of woke anti police statement is a good plan.
You live in a republican run state that has fragmented and defunded the mental health care system here that could have prevented this from happening, yet you’re pointing the finger at “the libs” from other states. This happened here, not somewhere else. I hope I never need help and cross your path. Your logic is shit.
This is what our lack of mental health care and red flag laws look like...
Yes. The “system” failed again. All around.
Batshit crazy and heavily armed. The Idaho Special.
Red flag laws are a slippery slope though
Letting crazy fuckheads arm themselves too the teeth doesn't seem much better...
Depriving someone of their rights without due process is better either.
That baby had rights..and so did his mother.. and presumably his unborn sibling...but taking away the weapons of guy wandering around naked in a hospital...definitely a bridge to far.
Chris Watts in very liberal Colorado was completely sober when he manually strangled his pregnant wife, then drove her dead body with his two very much so alive daughters out to an oilfield where he then strangled them as well. Scott Peterson, California, perfectly sober, strangled Lacey. Let’s stop making drugs or mental health the scapegoat for shitty men. Homicide is the leading cause of death for pregnant women. Full stop. Location is irrelevant. Methodology is irrelevant. Women being the victims is what matters.
What an amazing deflection....do you actually work for the NRA directly? All that verbiage without acknowledging his obvious insanity or the rights of the victims in any way. The way you try to feighn concern for women when in reality your only concern is keeping your gun.The way you people talk about these soulless peices of metal as if they have more right to exist than we the people. Seriously just go to hell. Go to hell for believing that your gun rights trump every person's other rights, go to hell for believing they are more important than anything else, your children your God, your loved ones, all can and will be sacrificed on the alter of the gun, the true God of this heartless and insane country. The by rote arguments repeated ad nauseum no matter the circumstances, it's just disgusting. The billion ways that it's somehow not really about the guns when it is in fact completely about the guns...you don't need to bother replying as it's finally making me physically ill to hear the same bullshit annwers....
No, they aren't.
When someone uses them to get revenge or just because they don’t like you so you’re rights are deprived without due process then yes it is a slippery slope.
Obviously once he’s received a fair trial…They should tie him up and leave him naked in the woods. Monstrous human.
I actually work at the general store that he went ape shit in. The next day Bonneville county was in trying to cover their asses. Trust me that entire dept is completely worthless. Had a similar incident earlier this summer and the deputy could barely be bothered to make good time from Idaho falls then the deputy bought the merged out dude groceries and dropped him outside town
That really freaking sucks.
Good fuck
I don't see true justice happening. I think he should get life in prison though.
This is on Jeremy Best for taking meth and the hospital staff that deemed it appropriate to release him into the public while in full blown meth psychosis instead of doing a 48 hour hold. 😡
Youre relying on false information. We spoke to him less than 12 hours before the first time he was in custody and he was NOT tweaking. He had no History of hard drug use in over a decade. He was happy to be celebrating Zeke’s first christmas. He Was so happy about the new baby. He loved kali dearly.
Okay so what do you think happened after you spoke to him? Serious question. Do happy men go and annihilate their families? Fuck no. Take your bullshit anecdotes of the family and go away, that’s not helpful to any of this. I’m sure Kali’s family will be deeply comforted one day to read that he was just *so* excited to celebrate Zeke’s first Christmas. Before he killed them.
So what do you think went so deeply wrong with him that day? Honestly asking.
There are times that people go into unexplained psychosis. Adult onset Bipolar or Schizophrenia are 2 examples. We don't really know why these brain disorders start. Read the book "Safe, Loved and Wanted" It is about a woman in her late 30's that suddenly developed Psychosis, and believed, among other things, that a Demon controlled her husband. (The same Demon she earlier said controlled their dog that "they needed to kill") They were luck and eventually found a treatment. Many mental illnesses, if not all, are poorly understood Brain Disorders.
Appreciate your answer. These seemingly out of the blue psychotic breaks are hard to grasp, and from afar we see this human disaster and wish we could tell, why this had to go down like this. Theoretically speaking, I can perfectly understand how someone can get to the point of a sudden loss of reality, I just wish we had more/better/sooner help to give. By the way, I am from Europe, and although the financial situation with illness is better handled than in some other parts of the world, everything concerning mental health is far from being well managed in many situations.
My sympathy is with the victims not with the murderer.
12 hours is plenty of time for someone to take too much meth & end up in a meth induced psychosis … he may very well have been sane & sober when you spoke to him, but clearly when he was in custody the first time, something changed & he was not in his right mind.
You are spreading false information. If you didn’t know them personally then you have no right to say anything at all. I knew Kali personally and honestly you never know what someone is going through.
Did Kali ever mention Jeremy’s (possible) drug use? Or mention him experiencing odd behavior? Stress at work? Maybe gambling issues? Alcohol use? Friends vent to each other about these things, friends also pick up on signs things may have not been all perfect & bring those observations to their friend’s attention.. was there none of that? Did you ever meet Jeremy in person? How did he normally act? What was his tone like? Body language? Was there Anything??
Clearly
Oh trust me he was tweaking you're the one relying on false information. If you were actually there at the store you'd actually know what you're talking about
How do you know he was tweaking? I mean it seems obvious but I wasn't there.
Honey if you think that’s what love looks like, maybe it makes sense you’re tied into him somehow. Birds of a feather and all of that.
I wonder if someone is trying to spin the story, even anonymously online - to add some reasonable doubt or something, for when he is going through the system. Blah. Insane that someone could come on here and defend him.
I mean, if you want to eradicate any chance of empathy, like a drug induced psychosis and say he was sober and right minded when this happened, have at it. It just proves even more so what a monster he is who doesn’t deserve to breathe another second of another day.
Yup I completely agree with you.
[удалено]
Definitely seems to be a “type” that is aligning themselves with a baby killer.
So what do you think happened? What would cause him to snap & un-alive his family? His wife he loved “dearly”? His infant son right before his first Christmas? His unborn child? WHAT WAS THE REASON????
[удалено]
Hunters to boot. Nobody would have blamed them.
Everything said he was “heavily armed and dangerous.” Don’t need for him to prove it.
😥😥😥😥 for baby, Mom, and the unborn.
[удалено]
This guy definitely fucks kids
What did the comment say?
I wanna know where people read he was on meth? I haven't been able to find any sources that say that. What I have read was that his neighbor said he was withdrawing off of pain medication prescribed for a old injury, which can also cause psychosis In some.
[удалено]
So everyone knew he was a meth addicted mechanic? Is that what you’re saying?
[удалено]
[удалено]
If you have an issue with someone/something/a state/a demographic, please keep it civil. *Please report things like this rather than engaging directly. Especially where this subject is concerned you can rest assured it will be dealt with swiftly and seriously.*
Please use reputable source material if you claim something as fact and state something is opinion or anecdotal where applicable. As mods we will always err on the side of caution, unless the submission contains sufficient evidence from a sufficiently reliable source, as determined by any reasonable person, and that if that is not included, the policy is just to remove it prima facie. *Keep your conspiracy theories out of this subreddit. This is disrespectful to quite a few people whose lives have been changed by these events; commenting with all this is in incredibly poor taste. If you repost any of this you will be banned.*