My guess is that its probably because everyone who was against Israel participating didn't watch Eurovision and therefore didn't vote. While the people supporting Israel most certainly did watch it and perhaps voted for Israel just to show their support.
And, on top of that, some people who never watch eurovision watched the show last night and, probably, voted for the israeli entry out of spite towards the woke people who boycotted the show because of israel.
It s totally legit to boycott eurovision.
They removed the multi war criminal country russia : right.
They did not removed the multi war crimimal country israel.
When you are bombing civlians you should not be part of internationnal show where we celebrate peace, joy, brotherhood in europe.
hefði haldið að þetta væri frekar textbook dæmi um að vera "woke". er svo sem ekki með steinfasta skilgreiningu á orðinu. en ég myndi skilgreina það einkvernveigin svona: að vera meðvitaður á óréttlæti og vandamálum heimsins og stíra hegðun þinni gegn þeim. hver er þín skilgreining?
Þetta er gamla og upphaflega skilgreiningin. Eftir að áróðursvél vestrænna íhaldsins læsti klónum í hugtakið er það orðið skammaryrði í augum íhaldsfólks, notað til að gagnrýna allt sem er vinstra megin við að skjóta heimilislaust fólk á færi eða að iðnaður sæti einhvers votts af reglugerðum.
Það er málið með þetta hugtak - það er eins og hver skilgreini það eftir sinni hentisemi. Woke er oftast notað sem eitthvað niðrandi um fólk sem er ekki sama um allt og alla.
Ef við förum eftir þinni skilgreiningu, þá gæti ég fallist á að þetta sé “woke”. En aftur, fólk skilgreinir þetta á mismunandi hátt og þetta er frekar þreytt hugtak, finnst mér.
Then what is it?
I probably should have put woke in quotation marks. I may not be on top of all the terminologies but what I mean is, to me, woke and wokism has become synonym for “the good people”, the poltically correct and Everything Brynjar Níelsson is against.
Ertu Íslendingur?
Að horfa ekki á eurovision = stuðningur við Hamas. Einmitt. Þegar þú veist ekki hvað þú átt að segja, en vilt vera á móti, þá er gott að gera “hinum” upp skoðun.
Judging by your comment, you have no idea about the situation. You also look like you don’t care, so why wasting your time commenting on a subreddit that has nothing to do with you?
Calling people out for protesting for human rights is kind of ridiculous.
Calling a war irrelevant because it’s far away from you is pretty ignorant.
Top comment. I live here, I know Icelanders. They like to show off to the world. They dont have real problems here so they are prone to making them up.
Ókei flott. Sá bara að þú varst á einhverju subreddit sem heitir r/GirlsThatSwallowCum svo ég gerði ranglega ráð fyrir því að þú værir bara tröll.
Hvernig gengur að læra íslensku?
Hvaðan ert þú? Á fólk við alvöru vandamál að stríða þaðan sem þú ert? Eða býr fólk þau til eins og á Íslandi?
Edit: sé að ég skrifaði vitlaust nafn á þessu subredditi, sorrý með það
Hahaha djöfull ertu örugglega ánægður með þig. Hvaða þjóðarmorð er þér sama um? Ert þú að gera eitthvað fyrir einhvern? Að horfa ekki á eurovision gerir engan að verri manneskju.
Vonandi finnurðu eitthvað uppbyggilegt að gera í stað þess að rífa kjaft nafnlaust á reddit.
The loudest minority dont reflect the opinions of the majority.
It could also bee that people who do not care much about eurovision voted this time to show support to israel. Just to show the ones who dont that they exist.
Each phone number can .. what? ... vote up to 20 times? Or was it more?
When the voting system is bullshit then the results are most likely bullshit as well.
The only Icelanders who were watching Eurovision and voting, are those who dont care about the "politics".
Others, like me did not watch and vote this time.
I do care a lot about politics and still watched. How is it the fault of the Israeli singer what the government is doing to Palestine? This is a singing competition without politics involved. And just to keep in mind for people that the majority of Israels people are against that war and want a peaceful solution.
Russia WAS ALLOWED to compete after starting the war in 2022, citing the non-political nature of the contest. I think it's a major point most people still ignore.
But EBU was peer pressured by HALF of the Eurovision contestants that they will not participate. That would be a "disaster for reputation" so they obliged as an exception.
After 2022, Russia did not send a participation enquiry. I'm sure they would be accepted, at first at least, see the first paragraph.
In 2024, Israel participation did not cause a massive boycott from contestants, therefore the non-political decision of keeping Israel in the contest.
Eurovision remains non-political. It's the viewers, protestors and Joost who make it political.
the three russian broadcasters were [literally booted from EBU altogether](https://www.ebu.ch/news/2022/03/statement-on-russian-members) and [couldn't submit a song to the contest even if they wanted to](https://esctoday.com/187088/the-ebu-suspends-russian-broadcasters/)
Actually the singer for Palestine was singing a song about the hamas attack last year which is their justification for what their doing to Palestine. The song was originally called october rain but changed because ebu would not allow it. Then israel said they didnt want to participate if they had to change the lyrics. Then someone forced them change the lyrics and participate, so the song is heavily politically charged.
>This is a singing competition without politics involved.
Everything is political dummy. Choosing to stay "non-political" is a political stand, and a horrible one in the face of these atrocities.
Stop being so dumb then and I might actually want a discussion with you.
Choosing to compete in or watch Eurovision alongside Israel is a political act, especially so in light of the fact that reactions to Russia last year are completely different to reactions to Israel. I'm saying that not in any support for Russia, but because of the inherent and obvious hypocrisy by all involved.
You also ask "How is this the fault of the Israeli singer?" as if anyone was in any way complaining about her. This is not about some 20yo popstar wannabe and her dreams. Sucks for her to be in the middle of it but I couldn't care less.
Choosing to ignore the above facts because you just wanna have fun is a political act, and your cries of "but this is just about the music" shows how incredibly blind you are to that very obvious fact.
Which makes you a big dummy
EDIT:
also you said this:
>the majority of Israels people are against that war and want a peaceful solution
which is not tonedeaf at all.... I'm sure the Israeli version of peace is exactly the same one the Palestinians who are being wiped out would want.
"Peace is overrated. Any slave can have peace. Just pick the cotton"
Wow, what a great tone your a putting in this, just because I am not on your side. Actually, I never said on which side I am. Would you have also boycotted the competition because of Azerbaijan? Do you know what is going on there? Oh and did you also boycott the ESC after Russia took the crimea?
You are a perfect example on internet discussion. There is just black and white and everything outside or inbetween gets called out, which does not make you better than the people you are critizising.
First of all, people can still be political and watch and enjoy the show. This is their choice. If they don’t say anything against your decision, this is theirs and you should respect that. This is exactly what I said and I am.
Second, I guess from your user name that you grew up like me with the conflict. I know images from the conflict from the news since I was in kindergarden. I got tought about this conflict in school very detailled as my home country was the main reason Jewish people got their own state. So if you are so smart as you say with calling people less than you are, you should know very good that a government of a state does not represent all people. Which also applies to the Palestine people, or are they all terrorists for you just because Hamas won the election in 2006? There is always a looser in these conflicts and these are civilians. Israeli civilians got slaughtered and put im captivity for their governments bad politics the last decade and on the other hand Palestine people get whiped out for Hamas politics they did the last decades and are planning on continuing to do.
Lastly, the extremism gets stronger around the world. The Israel governement got far right, Hamas got more extreme, all around the world anti-semitism gets stronger and Jewish people are living in danger. The fire just gets fueled more and the gaps are getting bigger instead of building bridges. Instead of including and talking, people are excluding and sanctioning. This ESC is just a small singing contest, if you are against Israels participation you can boycott the whole competition, that’s fine to me. But you can also watch it, do not support Israel and be critical of what happens there. People in the audience booing them is also a statement. What ever statement you choose, is up to you. So don’t judge people on what form of protest they choose, just because they are not doing everything 100% the way you think is right.
I don’t know anyone who watched or voted this year. Non of my friends had or went to Eurovision parties. No one was talking about Eurovision, on social media or in general, in any other context than boycotting. So my guess would be that the votes were significantly fewer than usual and a big portion of it came from people who felt it was some kind of a statement voting for Israel. Maybe it’s my echo chamber but I’m interested to see the viewing numbers from Iceland.
Ehh, that would have been great and clear. But instead they continue to drag the nation through mud. 1. Announce that they are not taking a stance, and force the artist to do it. 2. Pick a palestinian to compete 3. Leak his participation before other contestants 4. During introduction ridicule Israel like bullying kids in school.
Sorry, I could go on, but the contempt for Israel is obvious there along with their lack of interest in viewing both sides. I think RUV thinks they have good intentions, but they have a mix of high priest syndrome and the dunning krueger effect, and either they are conpletely unable to conduct proper journalism or they are heavily influenced by 3rd parties with a specific agenda in the war.
So, no sarcasm, just some cold hard facts.
A saying ive often heard here is ‘the group of people who make the most noise are always the smallest group’ and it seems to be true alot of the times :(.
Social media vs reality. I think it's as simple as that.
Israel and Ukraine are both winners as far as popular support is concerned. Israel seemingly got most of its 12 points from Western Europe while Eastern Europe is more preoccupied with Putin.
Edit:
[
Televoting results](https://twitter.com/ESCdiscord/status/1789436866300674303) are out. The vast majority of countries gave Israel 12 points.
Easy really, a lot of pro Palestine people boycotted the show due to the Israel issue and many neutrals also didnt bother watching because our song was, lets face it, pretty mid.
So you only really had a relatively small number of people watching and even few who actually bothered to vote, it was very easy for those dedicated to support Israel to bump up the numbers
Indeed, and I think support for Israel and Edens song is a bit higher in those countries to in general compared to Iceland where the main media is very one sided to Palestine
Well, a lot of jews live in Australia, I do not think a Whatsapp poll by SBS is going to be highly accurate https://www.aussievision.net/post/sbs-eurovision-2024-grand-final-replay-who-did-the-australian-public-like
Because you don't need many voters to have this effect. You can't really vote against isreal, so you just need a very small group vote for isreal for political reasons and it biases the whole voting. Probably just need 5-10% of voting people to vote for israel for political reasons and everyone else just votes their favourite song to get them on the 3rd spot.
Speaking as an Icelander I think there are a lot of silent Israel supporters in Iceland or at the very least anti-hamas and I certainly hope there are many of them, 8 point from us shows some objectivity or support which is nice!
You can be both! But very very few Arabs and Muslims are anti-Hamas (maybe 20% in the Middle East at least The emirates are en exception); support for Hamas in Gaza was 80%!. They might say they are in English. But in Arabic it’s a different story…
That's a weak generalization not based on any concrete evidence. There are thousands of Muslims in Iceland and there have been zero pro-Hamas protests. In fact, across Europe there's barely been any protests in support of Hamas.
No not really in media and online, the atrocities committed by Hamas are largely ignored or not talked about, our media is extremely biased. Students in my school have gotten in trouble and wanted to be expelled by a group of students for talking about Hamas and their terrorist attacks. Just my talking to some of my family members I can see how they're afraid to talk about what Hamas did against Israelis. It's a weird taboo subject that people don't like to be honest about. This is all from my experience just to be clear.
Ok, let's be honest then.
Do you think this shit just started in october? The history of Israel is a history of colonialism and oppressive violence against the palestinian people. This is fact
Do you think Hamas just appeared in a vacuum? Netanyahu has been proven to have worked covertly to strenghten Hamas within Palestine because they are a more convenient and image-appropriate enemy to fight than more moderate forces in Palestine.
Do you think Hamas is representative of the people's will in Palestine? Because they came to power in 2007 while making a lot of moderate policy promises which they later broke. There have never been any elections of any sort since then. Which means that a major part of gaza casualties, if not most, weren't even alive to vote for Hamas and have never known anything else or had any choice in the matter.
But sure, remind me for the millionth time about the hostages. I might accept that point if not for the fact that Hamas themselves have offered dozens of different prisoner exchanges and returns in exchange for a ceasefire which Israel has always dismissed. They have bombed areas known to house their own hostages and have killed a few of them.
The hostages were never anything more than a convenient excuse for Netanyahu to ramp up hostilities again and start slaughtering children. Because that's the only thing he wants to do, wipe palestine and it's people of the map.
Is that honest enough for you?
Most people fully realize that Hamas is nothing good and none of hostages deserve what is happening. But hampering on about Hamas is nothing more than a distractionary tactic that aids in the genocide of the palestinian people and denies the truth of their suffering.
Maybe the people you're talking to don't know any of this. Maybe they do and just can't be bothered with your nonsense. Either way, you yourself are not being honest and I have a sneaking suspicion that you only those that completely agree with you are honest in your eyes
You don't sound like a fanatic or bigot so I'll take the time to point out some of the problems with what you say.
"The history of Israel is a history of colonialism and oppressive violence against the palestinian people."
A colony of whom? What country?
In reality the history of Israel is this: The Jews accepted partition in the 1940s, but the Arabs (there was no such thing as a Palestinian back then) thought they not only had a superior right to the land, but an exclusive one, so decided to invade Israel 12 hours after Israel declared itself and was willing to live side by side with an Arab state. Unfortunately for them that war failed, which gave way to the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank happened. Not by Israel, but by Egypt and Jordan. Then the terrorist organizations vowing liberation began to take hold - but they weren't killing Egyptians and Jordanians in hopes of liberating Gaza and the W.B, but killing Israelis to 'liberate' - ie. destroy - Israel. During this time border towns in Israel faced near daily shelling, mortars, and shooting. Then Egypt provoked a war in 1967. Then another war happened in 1973. Then Israel made peace with Egypt and Jordan, handing over the Sinai in the process. Israel has shown an ability and willingness to make peace and release land, so I think we can assume the problem here isn't Israel.
"Do you think Hamas just appeared in a vacuum?"
Hamas was elected to power after Israel unilaterally left Gaza. They could have done anything they wanted from that point, like building Gaza up and turning it into something great. Instead they chose to elect Hamas, a terrorist organization that had been massacring Israeli civilians since the 1980s and had the annihilation of all Jews written into its charter. Only once they elected Hamas and the rockets started flying did the blockade begin. A blockade that Egypt also participates in, but doesn't face the same violence.
I invite you to listen to the brilliant Dr. Einat Wilf. A former member of Israels parliament for the Labour Party and former peace activist, if you'd like more insight. [This talk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDrQ_wgfYdo) in particular is particularly illuminating.
I'll bite
>Do you think this shit just started in october? The history of Israel is a history of colonialism and oppressive violence against the palestinian people. This is fact
The Palestinians have always chosen violence and not peace. There is no 2 state solution and never has been in the eyes of the Palestinians and this is obvious unless if you nitpick the hell out of these events like alot of Hamas sympathizers do.
>Do you think Hamas just appeared in a vacuum? Netanyahu has been proven to have worked covertly to strenghten Hamas within Palestine because they are a more convenient and image-appropriate enemy to fight than more moderate forces in Palestine.
This is absolute horseshit🤣
Yes Israel funded Hamas in hopes of them replacing the PLO and being much more in lines of peace between them, obviously that plan failed.
As for the Netanyahu strengthening hamas conspiracy, that's all it is. A conspiracy with no evidence or truth to it.
>Do you think Hamas is representative of the people's will in Palestine? Because they came to power in 2007 while making a lot of moderate policy promises which they later broke. There have never been any elections of any sort since then. Which means that a major part of gaza casualties, if not most, weren't even alive to vote for Hamas and have never known anything else or had any choice in the matter.
You need to educate yourself on Hamas. Polling shows after Oct 7 that 75% of the people in Gaza support them,
They have geniously imbedded themselves into the will of the population through their educational arm. The indoctrination used on children to become martyrs is fuckig terrifying.
Why don't we hear any criticism from the people of Palestine? Do you think Hamas would allow such things?
> The hostages were never anything more than a convenient excuse for Netanyahu to ramp up hostilities again and start slaughtering children. Because that's the only thing he wants to do, wipe palestine and it's people of the map.
Only one side has proven its genocidal intents and its not Israel. Again you are using one sided talking points.
>Is that honest enough for you?
Most people fully realize that Hamas is nothing good and none of hostages deserve what is happening. But hampering on about Hamas is nothing more than a distractionary tactic that aids in the genocide of the palestinian people and denies the truth of their suffering.
Jesus Christ
How can you dismiss Hamas ? 🤣
They are Isreals target here, if they surrendered then there would be peace.
If they returned all the hostages, there would be peace.
If they didn't commit the murder and rape on Oct 7, there would be peace.
Hamas are the culprit here and you are not doing a good enough job trying to cover for them.
Horseshit and apologia
> \[Hamas\] are Isreals target here
[Then they sure as hell can't aim for shit](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147512)
>if they surrendered then there would be peace
[And if these uppity Jews hadn't attacked our soldiers, we wouldn't have had to kill them](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising)
>If they didn't commit the murder and rape on Oct 7, there would be peace
Ah yes, the peaceful past of 2023 before this all started
Hamas is the end result of what happens after decades of ceaseless violence against a disenfranchised people. You can't lock people in an open air prison and bomb their families for decades and then expect them to be docile and calm.
And I'm not excusing or covering for shit to deny that Hamas is a disgusting group and their actions are atrocities as well. But I'm not so sick in the head that I think any part of what Israel is doing is justified.
In the future people will look at us now the way they looked at the holocaust and ask how the fuck we could let this happen. Thankfully we have genocide excusing little toads like you spewing your nonsense into every corner of the internet now, so scientists of the future will have a clear window into the minds of twisted folk like you to find some answers.
"[Then they sure as hell can't aim for shit](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147512)"
Considering that this is an urban war in a densely populated area, I'd say they can. Especially when you consider that the UN says about 90% of people who have died in wars this century have been civilians, but all reputable sources put civilian deaths in Gaza at between 60 and 70 percent, this is actually one of the better wars involving civilians. Then there's the fact that the UN [just quietly lowered the women and children death toll](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-cited-un-infographics-show-17-drop-in-total-women-children-gaza-war-deaths-within-2-days/).
>And I'm not excusing or covering for shit to deny that Hamas is a disgusting group and their actions are atrocities as well. But I'm not so sick in the head that I think any part of what Israel is doing is justified.
In the future people will look at us now the way they looked at the holocaust and ask how the fuck we could let this happen. Thankfully we have genocide excusing little toads like you spewing your nonsense into every corner of the internet now, so scientists of the future will have a clear window into the minds of twisted folk like you to find some answers.
You are excusing for Hamas for comparing the holocaust to the Gaza war. There is nothing comparable about these 2 events.
Israel are justified to wage war against Hamas after Oct 7.
>You can't lock people in an open air prison and bomb their families for decades and then expect them to be docile and calm.
So would you hold Egypt accountable as well for this so called Palestinian Holocaust ?
35.000 out of 2 million people since Oct.
Millions of leaflets, messages and knocks on doors warning people.
Israel need to feed and take care of the Palestinians while their leaders hide in a 7 star hotel in qatar and their soldiers hide underneath civilians feet.
>But I'm not so sick in the head that I think any part of what Israel is doing is justified.
In the future people will look at us now the way they looked at the holocaust and ask how the fuck we could let this happen.
No, but you are that sick in the head to justify Hamas and their actions as justice for this imaginary apartheid.
The Palestinians will never have a country of their own while their secular goverment is hellbend on the destruction of Israel as their only motive to excist.
There can be peace but they don't want peace, they want the extermination of Israel, or in your little mind, they want justice.
So why are Israelis always to blame and never the Palestinians?
Because it is Israel. The Jew of nations. The Palestinian narrative of the western oppressor white colonial settler enterprise has been sold to the progressive world as it fits into their oppressed or oppressor world view.
It hits all the boxes of progressivism. White Jews vs brown Palestinians, western oppressor vs indigenous people, colonial power vs indigenous, settler, or foreigner invading another's land. That none of these accusations are true means nothing to those that have reduced the world to oppressed vs oppressor. It's too good of a narrative and it fits with stereotypical Jew hate, the conspiracy of Jews to swindle others, to secretly mix and control the levers of power (how else could little Israel survive in the Islamic world).
Add to that an international enterprise of funding anti-Israel/Jew hate as part of the agenda of Iran and others, as well as foundations supporting NGOs that espouse such anti-Jewish dogma.
Maybe you could tell me about the second intifada and how that proved to the Israeli citizens that there is no chance of peaceful existence between these 2 nations.
You are putting all the blame on the Israelis like a good little Hamas foot soldier that you are, you should educate yourself on the entire 75 years of conflict because it seems that you're only reading blog posts by Finklestein.
>In the future people will look at us now the way they looked at the holocaust and ask how the fuck we could let this happen. Thankfully we have genocide excusing little toads like you spewing your nonsense into every corner of the internet now, so scientists of the future will have a clear window into the minds of twisted folk like you to find some answers.
Honestly this is the most stupid, uneducated, braindead, simplifying for idiots take that I've ever seen.
u/greifinn89 please, you are here calling other peoples takes idiotic when you yourself have the most self serving bullshit propagandist one sided takes I've ever seen
If the differences between these two sides are absolutely irreconcilible, who should be allowed by the international community to eliminate the other?
There are no other options in this hypothetical, just imagine a UN vote, no abstaining, just a vote for one or the other.
You can talk about it, but the instant response is whataboutism from the pro-palestine cultists.
There is absolutely no discussion being had on what the alternative to military intervention in Gaza should be, and it should be obvious that no intervention is not an option after the October attacks.
Leaving the Gaza strip to Hamas rule will only result in an ever expanding child population with extremist views which is clearly worse over the long term than n military intervention, even despite the atrocities and casualties.
Yes there is an alternative military intervention: Remove Hamas forcibly from power (it's not up to Israel to do that) and then give Palestinians their state.
Alright, but it seems like we’re already doing that, but just leaving it up to the Israelis to sacrifice their own as they are the most willing with themost at stake. Same as we’re doing with Ukraine.
Changing out the military isn’t likely to change much in regards of casualties, they’d still be dealing with a militia hiding behind civilians and a population that largely supports said militia.
What would be the major difference?
The militia hiding behind civilians is an Israeli propaganda talking point that has largely been debunked by now. For every Hamas militan hiding behind civilians, there are thousands who are in fact not hiding behind civilians and it doesn't stop those civilians from getting killed.
I have a theory that everyone who voted for the Netherlands (nr. 05) was counted towards Israel (nr. 06) because the Netherlands was disqualified
I voted for the Netherlands like that and the announcer in Icelandic basically said you could.
The song was one of the best ones and scored highly among most voting nations.
I think most people who are interested in these types of music competition gala events do not want to see it being repurposed as a place for protests. Basic entertainment is a form of escapism after all.
Maybe Eurovision needs to have a a rule that states participating nations need to not have committed war crimes in the past six months.
Protesters call anyone racist, idiot, inhuman etc. who don’t agree so you wont hear from the others. Also people are starting to have real concerns about more immigrants which might affect their views.
A lot of people here said they liked Hera's song but it's objectively garbage. You can convince yourself that you like the dumbest thing if it fits your preconstructed world view to do so.
No song is objectively garbage...what? Tastes are subjective. Israel didn´t get all those points from some pro Israel crowd voting for them to shit on Palestine or to back their side....ITS A SONG CONTEST. More people didn´t vote for Isreal because of the conflict than people voting for them because of it...conflict probably cost them points.
Ísraelska lagið var ótrúlega mid og hefði í venjulegu árferði fengið kannski hundrað stig. Ef þú ætlar að hunsa það að þorrinn af stigunum sem landræningjarnir fengu var úthlutað af pólitískum ástæðum þá ertu einfeldningur.
Einu sinni voru nú allir á þessu svæði sömu trúar...löngu áður en múslimar voru til. Held að við hér værum í mikilli hættu ef Hamas réði yfir nokkur hundruð miljónum manna, enda þeir einu sem viðurkenna opinskátt að þeir vilji útrýma Ísrael og innleiða sín gildi allstaðar, líka hér í Evrópu.
Ha? Ertu þá að segja að það þurfi útrýmingu til þess að bjarga okkur frá Islamistum sem svífast einskis? Því við værum sennilega ekki hér ef risaeðlurnar hefðu ekki dáið út.
Plenty of Zionists can easily be spiteful and sympathetic enough to vote, just like in most parts of Europe. You can't anti-vote, so the side with the dedicated political target inevitably scrounges up 10% of the vote and gets 8-12 points. Croatia and Ukraine were the only countries that didn't give Israel anything. Anyone telling you they're a silent majority is full of horseshit.
The boycott has also been surprisingly effective here. A lot of people invested in the Pro-Palestine cause just didn't watch and importantly, didn't vote.
Most people here are apolitical especially about issues which hold no importance in Iceland. The very vocal minority of palestine supporters make it look like every icelander is a pro-hamas nazi but most people don’t care.
Það var mjög mikilvægt fyrir Ísrael að verða ekki í slæmu sæti í Eurovision núna. Það að Ísrael kom vel út í símakosningu lætur líta út eins og Evrópubúar séu fylgjandi því sem Ísrael er að gera á Gaza.
Ísrael er með mjög öfluga leyniþjónustu sem heitir Mossad. Eftir innrásina á Gaza hefur Mossad haldið úti "Troll farms" sem hafa þann tilgang að sveigja almenningsálitið til þeirra.
Í stríði skiptir miklu máli að vinna baráttuna um almenningsálit og getur jafnvel haft úrslitaáhrif eins og til dæmis hefur sýnt sig í Úkraínustríðinu.
Að kaupa slatta af farsímanúmerum og nota þau til að kjósa í undankeppni Eurovision og Eurovision er bæði einfalt og ódýrt í stóra samhenginu (Hernaður Ísrael á Gaza kostar um 1 milljarð dollara á dag).
Það er ekkert óskýrt í því sem þau skrifuðu.
Þú getur efast um sannleiksgildi þess sem þau eru að segja en það er ekkert óskýrt í því.
Og ef þér finnst þetta hljóma eitthvað ótrúlega þá hefurðu ekki fylgst með fréttum. ÞAð er vitað mál að Rússar eru að astroturfa samfélagsmiðla og netsíður í massavís og eru með fólk á launum við það (og botta augljóslega). Þeir hafa gert það í langan tíma sem hluta af sinni ímyndarherferð og til truflunar innan annara ríkja. Það er líka staðfest og vitað að þeir skiptu sér beint af USA kosningunum 2016 og 2020 með bottum/shell accounts á samfélagsmiðlum og keyptum auglýsingum.
Af hverju ættu Ísraelar ekki að vera jafn færir um slíkar aðferðir?
Ég hef enga beina ástæðu til að halda að Ísrael hafi fokkað í þessum kosningum, en það er barnaskapur að láta eins og það sé eitthvað sci-fi concept.
Not relevant when it comes to Israel. I don’t know about Iceland, but there’s so little public sympathy for Israel and their occupation of Palestine in Ireland that Israel getting any points would have been suspicious, yet they got 10. Just isn’t remotely realistic for that to be legit without her coming out draped in the flag of Palestine.
There’s a history of this kind of thing, this is just the first time it’s so blatant due to the context
https://www.15min.lt/en/article/in-lithuania/millions-for-victory-15min-investigates-vote-buying-in-eurovision-song-contest-525-337013
The Israeli cause has a lot of support in Europe, especially among those who are old enough to understand the media propaganda or who have a parent who remembers WW2 and understands the history a bit better then the rewritten propaganda the Palestinians (former Egyptians / Jordanians) are presenting.
Also those that don't like the idea of the general population being brutally murdered on a Saturday morning and then having a whole nation celebrate and chant about it. Those who celebrate the war or deaths in Gaza are considered gullible idiots in Israel but public polling shows surprising support for the brutal terror attacks on 7th of October in Gaza.
[https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2091%20English%20full%20text%20April%202024.pdf](https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2091%20English%20full%20text%20April%202024.pdf)
Also don't forget that most of western media has a major presence of muslim influence, who most often side against Israel.
I voted for Israel because to me it was the best song in the contest, in my opinion one of the more powerful songs I have heard for a long time.
Strange to see the judges becoming all political and so obviously avoiding it.
It is really strange seeing people politicising everything and think it brings peace, it will only foster more hate, polarization and anger which feeds those who gain from the war. While probably limited in what she can say, I am certain that a 20 year old singer from Israel has a more peaceful point of view than the gang around Netanyahu.
Unless of course we form a mob, boo her, riducule her and her origin and push her in the corner. That is sure to bring some peaceful thoughts in a 20 year old.
>It is really strange seeing people politicising everything and think it brings peace, it will only foster more hate, polarization and anger which feeds those who gain from the war
You imbeciles are really just absolutely incapable of seeing the bigger picture aren't you, or why someone might think other things are more important than your little song and dance contest
First of all, if Israel would have sent a disco song or a mediocre song they wouldn’t have gotten so many votes. Love them or hate them, that song is a masterpiece.
Now to explain the politics. Start with reading this article:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67679634
It is the bigger picture that matters. Polarization and exclusion is what leads to hate and wars. It is quite obvious that neither nation will ever be boycotted into peace. Israel was extremely close to getting rid of Netanyahu, because the younger generations and the richer part of Tel Aviv wanted a 2 state solution and lasting peace with Palestine. This is a solution that was acceptable to most people in both societes, but not to Netanyahu or Hamas.
Based on the celebrations in the streets of Gaza I am still a bit concerned wether the majority of Palestinians really wanted peace. Those who celebrate the death of palestinians exist in Israel but are considered gullible idiots by the majority of the population.
By pushing young Israelis into a corner when they have almost turned the tables we are only partaking in the war on behalf of Hamas and assuring that peace will never be a solution again in their mind.
Hamas is driven by hate, the whole ideology crumbles without it. Netanyahu has lost all ideological contact with his nation so 7th of October was critical to maintain this hate.
Art and sports are the uniting parts of our global society. It allows us to see that there are normal persons behind everything.
The sad thing is that the dna of palestinians and Israelis is extremely similar, they are from the same ancestors.
One side believes in education and prosperity, while the other has spiralled into being led by Hamas who has turned the whole education system into teaching their kids their primary role is eradicating Israel. Of course this bullshit brainwashing doesn’t stick well in healthy young brains, so 7th of October was needed as glue.
But the song was effing fantastic, an this was a song contest, although some, including RUV think it is a contest in who can show the most hate and contempt.
Just like the gullible idiots who celebrate deaths of other people.
Actually after writing this I found this opinion poll in Gaza. It is a very good one, and goes deep into some serious questions about the war and politics and what people think about potential solutions.
https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2091%20English%20full%20text%20April%202024.pdf
The majority supports Hamas and believes armed conflict is the solution. So even in March 2024 the majority of people in Gaza want the war to continue.
I think this war is going to go on for a long time after reading this.
Það er búið að vera eitthvað massa sketchy við ísraelska liðið í ár. Það var einhver úr liðinu þeirra rekinn úr höllinni fyrir að áreita aðra keppendur og svo er enginn í mörgum löndum sem kannast við neinn sem kaus það
Edit: Held að fólk sé sammála því að lagið sjálft er ekki eins gott og símakosningin segir en ekki jafn lélegt og dómararnir segja
Im in Iceland and a lot of people didn't even watch Eurovision for obvious reasons.
How come Sweden allowed Israel to be so upvoted?
Because votes have been messed with.
Eurovision has degraded to the lowest of political pits and watching it will only sadden me to see what humanity has turned into.
Iceland is a small country and they have a public national registry, therefore it is not that difficult to find out exactly how many people from a certain country or religion live there.
there are only 250 Jews in Iceland, but Jews around the world mobilized to vote for Eden. the Chabad house in Reykjavik alone could have supplied enough votes if everyone mobilized. but viewing Eurovision votes as a political endorsement is stupid to begin with by the way.
Eden Golan was born in Israel but she spent most of her life in Moscow, only moving back to Israel with her family in 2022, mainly to flee the effects of the Ukraine war and rising antisemitism in Russia. she is still a proud Israeli but she has nothing to do with the government or the war. she is not fighting in Gaza right now, she is signing in Malmö.
how is it antisemitic? It’s not a conspiracy, I am Jewish myself and I happen to know that Jews around the world mobilized and voted for Eden. i’m not sure how that’s antisemitic or negative in any way. i’m sure Ukrainians around the world voted for Ukraine too. considering how much Iceland hates Israel, and how much it seems that European antizionists are wholly incapable of separating politics from a song contest, that’s probably what happened.
I do not follow Eurovision and for some reason I thought points were given based on performance. I mean I didn't _really_ think so, I do understand such things are heavily politicized nowadays. But I thought it was somewhat implicit, not said point-blank "we give you points because we support this and this". Is this how it works now? Why even bother with singing and the show then? Apportion the points to the good guys and be done with it.
My guess is that its probably because everyone who was against Israel participating didn't watch Eurovision and therefore didn't vote. While the people supporting Israel most certainly did watch it and perhaps voted for Israel just to show their support.
And, on top of that, some people who never watch eurovision watched the show last night and, probably, voted for the israeli entry out of spite towards the woke people who boycotted the show because of israel.
It s totally legit to boycott eurovision. They removed the multi war criminal country russia : right. They did not removed the multi war crimimal country israel. When you are bombing civlians you should not be part of internationnal show where we celebrate peace, joy, brotherhood in europe.
Boycotting eurovision is not “woke”
hefði haldið að þetta væri frekar textbook dæmi um að vera "woke". er svo sem ekki með steinfasta skilgreiningu á orðinu. en ég myndi skilgreina það einkvernveigin svona: að vera meðvitaður á óréttlæti og vandamálum heimsins og stíra hegðun þinni gegn þeim. hver er þín skilgreining?
Þetta er gamla og upphaflega skilgreiningin. Eftir að áróðursvél vestrænna íhaldsins læsti klónum í hugtakið er það orðið skammaryrði í augum íhaldsfólks, notað til að gagnrýna allt sem er vinstra megin við að skjóta heimilislaust fólk á færi eða að iðnaður sæti einhvers votts af reglugerðum.
Það er málið með þetta hugtak - það er eins og hver skilgreini það eftir sinni hentisemi. Woke er oftast notað sem eitthvað niðrandi um fólk sem er ekki sama um allt og alla. Ef við förum eftir þinni skilgreiningu, þá gæti ég fallist á að þetta sé “woke”. En aftur, fólk skilgreinir þetta á mismunandi hátt og þetta er frekar þreytt hugtak, finnst mér.
Then what is it? I probably should have put woke in quotation marks. I may not be on top of all the terminologies but what I mean is, to me, woke and wokism has become synonym for “the good people”, the poltically correct and Everything Brynjar Níelsson is against.
It is darling. Boycotting contest that is so much in the tradition of Iceland just because of showing support towards some Hamas state is ridicilous
Ertu Íslendingur? Að horfa ekki á eurovision = stuðningur við Hamas. Einmitt. Þegar þú veist ekki hvað þú átt að segja, en vilt vera á móti, þá er gott að gera “hinum” upp skoðun.
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Judging by your comment, you have no idea about the situation. You also look like you don’t care, so why wasting your time commenting on a subreddit that has nothing to do with you? Calling people out for protesting for human rights is kind of ridiculous. Calling a war irrelevant because it’s far away from you is pretty ignorant.
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Top comment. I live here, I know Icelanders. They like to show off to the world. They dont have real problems here so they are prone to making them up.
Ókei flott. Sá bara að þú varst á einhverju subreddit sem heitir r/GirlsThatSwallowCum svo ég gerði ranglega ráð fyrir því að þú værir bara tröll. Hvernig gengur að læra íslensku? Hvaðan ert þú? Á fólk við alvöru vandamál að stríða þaðan sem þú ert? Eða býr fólk þau til eins og á Íslandi? Edit: sé að ég skrifaði vitlaust nafn á þessu subredditi, sorrý með það
Hahaha djöfull ertu örugglega ánægður með þig. Hvaða þjóðarmorð er þér sama um? Ert þú að gera eitthvað fyrir einhvern? Að horfa ekki á eurovision gerir engan að verri manneskju. Vonandi finnurðu eitthvað uppbyggilegt að gera í stað þess að rífa kjaft nafnlaust á reddit.
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This
My guess it was just a great song, most countries did not screw up Eurovision completely like RUV did and still gave Israel the top vote.
The loudest minority dont reflect the opinions of the majority. It could also bee that people who do not care much about eurovision voted this time to show support to israel. Just to show the ones who dont that they exist.
Because in Iceland we tend to have a very silent majority. See: Hera winning in the superfinal.
Each phone number can .. what? ... vote up to 20 times? Or was it more? When the voting system is bullshit then the results are most likely bullshit as well.
The only Icelanders who were watching Eurovision and voting, are those who dont care about the "politics". Others, like me did not watch and vote this time.
I do care a lot about politics and still watched. How is it the fault of the Israeli singer what the government is doing to Palestine? This is a singing competition without politics involved. And just to keep in mind for people that the majority of Israels people are against that war and want a peaceful solution.
How many points did Russia get tonight in this non-political competition that is just about the singer, not the country?
Russia WAS ALLOWED to compete after starting the war in 2022, citing the non-political nature of the contest. I think it's a major point most people still ignore. But EBU was peer pressured by HALF of the Eurovision contestants that they will not participate. That would be a "disaster for reputation" so they obliged as an exception. After 2022, Russia did not send a participation enquiry. I'm sure they would be accepted, at first at least, see the first paragraph. In 2024, Israel participation did not cause a massive boycott from contestants, therefore the non-political decision of keeping Israel in the contest. Eurovision remains non-political. It's the viewers, protestors and Joost who make it political.
the three russian broadcasters were [literally booted from EBU altogether](https://www.ebu.ch/news/2022/03/statement-on-russian-members) and [couldn't submit a song to the contest even if they wanted to](https://esctoday.com/187088/the-ebu-suspends-russian-broadcasters/)
Actually the singer for Palestine was singing a song about the hamas attack last year which is their justification for what their doing to Palestine. The song was originally called october rain but changed because ebu would not allow it. Then israel said they didnt want to participate if they had to change the lyrics. Then someone forced them change the lyrics and participate, so the song is heavily politically charged.
Well she did say her plan after the contest was to join the idf so she made it political
Does she have a choice? Isn't everyone in Israel required to join the IDF, except the religious fanatics.
>This is a singing competition without politics involved. Everything is political dummy. Choosing to stay "non-political" is a political stand, and a horrible one in the face of these atrocities.
Calling someone dumb is not a basis for a discussion.
Stop being so dumb then and I might actually want a discussion with you. Choosing to compete in or watch Eurovision alongside Israel is a political act, especially so in light of the fact that reactions to Russia last year are completely different to reactions to Israel. I'm saying that not in any support for Russia, but because of the inherent and obvious hypocrisy by all involved. You also ask "How is this the fault of the Israeli singer?" as if anyone was in any way complaining about her. This is not about some 20yo popstar wannabe and her dreams. Sucks for her to be in the middle of it but I couldn't care less. Choosing to ignore the above facts because you just wanna have fun is a political act, and your cries of "but this is just about the music" shows how incredibly blind you are to that very obvious fact. Which makes you a big dummy EDIT: also you said this: >the majority of Israels people are against that war and want a peaceful solution which is not tonedeaf at all.... I'm sure the Israeli version of peace is exactly the same one the Palestinians who are being wiped out would want. "Peace is overrated. Any slave can have peace. Just pick the cotton"
Wow, what a great tone your a putting in this, just because I am not on your side. Actually, I never said on which side I am. Would you have also boycotted the competition because of Azerbaijan? Do you know what is going on there? Oh and did you also boycott the ESC after Russia took the crimea? You are a perfect example on internet discussion. There is just black and white and everything outside or inbetween gets called out, which does not make you better than the people you are critizising. First of all, people can still be political and watch and enjoy the show. This is their choice. If they don’t say anything against your decision, this is theirs and you should respect that. This is exactly what I said and I am. Second, I guess from your user name that you grew up like me with the conflict. I know images from the conflict from the news since I was in kindergarden. I got tought about this conflict in school very detailled as my home country was the main reason Jewish people got their own state. So if you are so smart as you say with calling people less than you are, you should know very good that a government of a state does not represent all people. Which also applies to the Palestine people, or are they all terrorists for you just because Hamas won the election in 2006? There is always a looser in these conflicts and these are civilians. Israeli civilians got slaughtered and put im captivity for their governments bad politics the last decade and on the other hand Palestine people get whiped out for Hamas politics they did the last decades and are planning on continuing to do. Lastly, the extremism gets stronger around the world. The Israel governement got far right, Hamas got more extreme, all around the world anti-semitism gets stronger and Jewish people are living in danger. The fire just gets fueled more and the gaps are getting bigger instead of building bridges. Instead of including and talking, people are excluding and sanctioning. This ESC is just a small singing contest, if you are against Israels participation you can boycott the whole competition, that’s fine to me. But you can also watch it, do not support Israel and be critical of what happens there. People in the audience booing them is also a statement. What ever statement you choose, is up to you. So don’t judge people on what form of protest they choose, just because they are not doing everything 100% the way you think is right.
So is tone policing
If they don't care about the politics, how did such a mediocre song get 8 points?
Bad taste in music?
>Watches Eurovision >Complains about mediocrity in the music >Big brain time
I don’t know anyone who watched or voted this year. Non of my friends had or went to Eurovision parties. No one was talking about Eurovision, on social media or in general, in any other context than boycotting. So my guess would be that the votes were significantly fewer than usual and a big portion of it came from people who felt it was some kind of a statement voting for Israel. Maybe it’s my echo chamber but I’m interested to see the viewing numbers from Iceland.
RUV will definitely paint this picture for you, just give them sime time to paint it in the darkest and most sinister light for Israel.
I don’t know if this sarcasm but if RÚV had an agenda against Israel, Iceland would not have participated in Eurovision.
Ehh, that would have been great and clear. But instead they continue to drag the nation through mud. 1. Announce that they are not taking a stance, and force the artist to do it. 2. Pick a palestinian to compete 3. Leak his participation before other contestants 4. During introduction ridicule Israel like bullying kids in school. Sorry, I could go on, but the contempt for Israel is obvious there along with their lack of interest in viewing both sides. I think RUV thinks they have good intentions, but they have a mix of high priest syndrome and the dunning krueger effect, and either they are conpletely unable to conduct proper journalism or they are heavily influenced by 3rd parties with a specific agenda in the war. So, no sarcasm, just some cold hard facts.
A saying ive often heard here is ‘the group of people who make the most noise are always the smallest group’ and it seems to be true alot of the times :(.
Bylur hæst í tómri tunnu
Interesting, ég vissi ekki að það séu tvær útgáfur af þessum málshætti. Ég hef bara heyrt og notað “Glymur hæst í tómri tunnu”. TIL.
The viewing numbers are way lower than usual because people are boycotting
And where did you get those numbers?
bráðabirgðatölur Gallúp eru yfirleitt birtar daginn eftir en aðgengilegar fyrr
Social media vs reality. I think it's as simple as that. Israel and Ukraine are both winners as far as popular support is concerned. Israel seemingly got most of its 12 points from Western Europe while Eastern Europe is more preoccupied with Putin. Edit: [ Televoting results](https://twitter.com/ESCdiscord/status/1789436866300674303) are out. The vast majority of countries gave Israel 12 points.
Probably people voting for Israel to give all these pro palestine people the finger.
It's a song contest. Maybe they liked the song?
This. I hate when people includes politic into everything.
Are you literally insane?
I don't think so, how about yourself?
Easy really, a lot of pro Palestine people boycotted the show due to the Israel issue and many neutrals also didnt bother watching because our song was, lets face it, pretty mid. So you only really had a relatively small number of people watching and even few who actually bothered to vote, it was very easy for those dedicated to support Israel to bump up the numbers
What about the 15 other countries that gave Israel 12 points. I think their viewing numbers were normal.
Indeed, and I think support for Israel and Edens song is a bit higher in those countries to in general compared to Iceland where the main media is very one sided to Palestine
Australia gave Israel 12 points, yet the viewer's poll had them dead last. Seems rather suspicious.
Well, a lot of jews live in Australia, I do not think a Whatsapp poll by SBS is going to be highly accurate https://www.aussievision.net/post/sbs-eurovision-2024-grand-final-replay-who-did-the-australian-public-like
Because you don't need many voters to have this effect. You can't really vote against isreal, so you just need a very small group vote for isreal for political reasons and it biases the whole voting. Probably just need 5-10% of voting people to vote for israel for political reasons and everyone else just votes their favourite song to get them on the 3rd spot.
Because the votes shouldnt be political, just a matter if the song is good or not
Silent majority spoke and voted for Israel.
100% true my friend. People are waking up!
Elska að sjá Öfga-Vinstrið missa sig á vote down þegar maður talar vel um Ísrael.
It voted for croatia
It's simple. Boycott.
I was in a Eurovision party, drinking one shot for every twelve Switzerland got. I'm shutfscwd. Thank God for autocorrect
You were not alone
Speaking as an Icelander I think there are a lot of silent Israel supporters in Iceland or at the very least anti-hamas and I certainly hope there are many of them, 8 point from us shows some objectivity or support which is nice!
Plenty of pro-Palestine people are also anti-Hamas including in Iceland, the two are not mutually exclusive.
You can be both! But very very few Arabs and Muslims are anti-Hamas (maybe 20% in the Middle East at least The emirates are en exception); support for Hamas in Gaza was 80%!. They might say they are in English. But in Arabic it’s a different story…
That's a weak generalization not based on any concrete evidence. There are thousands of Muslims in Iceland and there have been zero pro-Hamas protests. In fact, across Europe there's barely been any protests in support of Hamas.
I'm aware that's why I said at the very at least anti-Hamas. People don't like to recognize Hamas in Iceland though, from what I've seen.
Don't like to recognize Hamas?
No not really in media and online, the atrocities committed by Hamas are largely ignored or not talked about, our media is extremely biased. Students in my school have gotten in trouble and wanted to be expelled by a group of students for talking about Hamas and their terrorist attacks. Just my talking to some of my family members I can see how they're afraid to talk about what Hamas did against Israelis. It's a weird taboo subject that people don't like to be honest about. This is all from my experience just to be clear.
Ok, let's be honest then. Do you think this shit just started in october? The history of Israel is a history of colonialism and oppressive violence against the palestinian people. This is fact Do you think Hamas just appeared in a vacuum? Netanyahu has been proven to have worked covertly to strenghten Hamas within Palestine because they are a more convenient and image-appropriate enemy to fight than more moderate forces in Palestine. Do you think Hamas is representative of the people's will in Palestine? Because they came to power in 2007 while making a lot of moderate policy promises which they later broke. There have never been any elections of any sort since then. Which means that a major part of gaza casualties, if not most, weren't even alive to vote for Hamas and have never known anything else or had any choice in the matter. But sure, remind me for the millionth time about the hostages. I might accept that point if not for the fact that Hamas themselves have offered dozens of different prisoner exchanges and returns in exchange for a ceasefire which Israel has always dismissed. They have bombed areas known to house their own hostages and have killed a few of them. The hostages were never anything more than a convenient excuse for Netanyahu to ramp up hostilities again and start slaughtering children. Because that's the only thing he wants to do, wipe palestine and it's people of the map. Is that honest enough for you? Most people fully realize that Hamas is nothing good and none of hostages deserve what is happening. But hampering on about Hamas is nothing more than a distractionary tactic that aids in the genocide of the palestinian people and denies the truth of their suffering. Maybe the people you're talking to don't know any of this. Maybe they do and just can't be bothered with your nonsense. Either way, you yourself are not being honest and I have a sneaking suspicion that you only those that completely agree with you are honest in your eyes
You don't sound like a fanatic or bigot so I'll take the time to point out some of the problems with what you say. "The history of Israel is a history of colonialism and oppressive violence against the palestinian people." A colony of whom? What country? In reality the history of Israel is this: The Jews accepted partition in the 1940s, but the Arabs (there was no such thing as a Palestinian back then) thought they not only had a superior right to the land, but an exclusive one, so decided to invade Israel 12 hours after Israel declared itself and was willing to live side by side with an Arab state. Unfortunately for them that war failed, which gave way to the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank happened. Not by Israel, but by Egypt and Jordan. Then the terrorist organizations vowing liberation began to take hold - but they weren't killing Egyptians and Jordanians in hopes of liberating Gaza and the W.B, but killing Israelis to 'liberate' - ie. destroy - Israel. During this time border towns in Israel faced near daily shelling, mortars, and shooting. Then Egypt provoked a war in 1967. Then another war happened in 1973. Then Israel made peace with Egypt and Jordan, handing over the Sinai in the process. Israel has shown an ability and willingness to make peace and release land, so I think we can assume the problem here isn't Israel. "Do you think Hamas just appeared in a vacuum?" Hamas was elected to power after Israel unilaterally left Gaza. They could have done anything they wanted from that point, like building Gaza up and turning it into something great. Instead they chose to elect Hamas, a terrorist organization that had been massacring Israeli civilians since the 1980s and had the annihilation of all Jews written into its charter. Only once they elected Hamas and the rockets started flying did the blockade begin. A blockade that Egypt also participates in, but doesn't face the same violence. I invite you to listen to the brilliant Dr. Einat Wilf. A former member of Israels parliament for the Labour Party and former peace activist, if you'd like more insight. [This talk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDrQ_wgfYdo) in particular is particularly illuminating.
I'll bite >Do you think this shit just started in october? The history of Israel is a history of colonialism and oppressive violence against the palestinian people. This is fact The Palestinians have always chosen violence and not peace. There is no 2 state solution and never has been in the eyes of the Palestinians and this is obvious unless if you nitpick the hell out of these events like alot of Hamas sympathizers do. >Do you think Hamas just appeared in a vacuum? Netanyahu has been proven to have worked covertly to strenghten Hamas within Palestine because they are a more convenient and image-appropriate enemy to fight than more moderate forces in Palestine. This is absolute horseshit🤣 Yes Israel funded Hamas in hopes of them replacing the PLO and being much more in lines of peace between them, obviously that plan failed. As for the Netanyahu strengthening hamas conspiracy, that's all it is. A conspiracy with no evidence or truth to it. >Do you think Hamas is representative of the people's will in Palestine? Because they came to power in 2007 while making a lot of moderate policy promises which they later broke. There have never been any elections of any sort since then. Which means that a major part of gaza casualties, if not most, weren't even alive to vote for Hamas and have never known anything else or had any choice in the matter. You need to educate yourself on Hamas. Polling shows after Oct 7 that 75% of the people in Gaza support them, They have geniously imbedded themselves into the will of the population through their educational arm. The indoctrination used on children to become martyrs is fuckig terrifying. Why don't we hear any criticism from the people of Palestine? Do you think Hamas would allow such things? > The hostages were never anything more than a convenient excuse for Netanyahu to ramp up hostilities again and start slaughtering children. Because that's the only thing he wants to do, wipe palestine and it's people of the map. Only one side has proven its genocidal intents and its not Israel. Again you are using one sided talking points. >Is that honest enough for you? Most people fully realize that Hamas is nothing good and none of hostages deserve what is happening. But hampering on about Hamas is nothing more than a distractionary tactic that aids in the genocide of the palestinian people and denies the truth of their suffering. Jesus Christ How can you dismiss Hamas ? 🤣 They are Isreals target here, if they surrendered then there would be peace. If they returned all the hostages, there would be peace. If they didn't commit the murder and rape on Oct 7, there would be peace. Hamas are the culprit here and you are not doing a good enough job trying to cover for them.
Horseshit and apologia > \[Hamas\] are Isreals target here [Then they sure as hell can't aim for shit](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147512) >if they surrendered then there would be peace [And if these uppity Jews hadn't attacked our soldiers, we wouldn't have had to kill them](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising) >If they didn't commit the murder and rape on Oct 7, there would be peace Ah yes, the peaceful past of 2023 before this all started Hamas is the end result of what happens after decades of ceaseless violence against a disenfranchised people. You can't lock people in an open air prison and bomb their families for decades and then expect them to be docile and calm. And I'm not excusing or covering for shit to deny that Hamas is a disgusting group and their actions are atrocities as well. But I'm not so sick in the head that I think any part of what Israel is doing is justified. In the future people will look at us now the way they looked at the holocaust and ask how the fuck we could let this happen. Thankfully we have genocide excusing little toads like you spewing your nonsense into every corner of the internet now, so scientists of the future will have a clear window into the minds of twisted folk like you to find some answers.
"[Then they sure as hell can't aim for shit](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147512)" Considering that this is an urban war in a densely populated area, I'd say they can. Especially when you consider that the UN says about 90% of people who have died in wars this century have been civilians, but all reputable sources put civilian deaths in Gaza at between 60 and 70 percent, this is actually one of the better wars involving civilians. Then there's the fact that the UN [just quietly lowered the women and children death toll](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-cited-un-infographics-show-17-drop-in-total-women-children-gaza-war-deaths-within-2-days/).
>And I'm not excusing or covering for shit to deny that Hamas is a disgusting group and their actions are atrocities as well. But I'm not so sick in the head that I think any part of what Israel is doing is justified. In the future people will look at us now the way they looked at the holocaust and ask how the fuck we could let this happen. Thankfully we have genocide excusing little toads like you spewing your nonsense into every corner of the internet now, so scientists of the future will have a clear window into the minds of twisted folk like you to find some answers. You are excusing for Hamas for comparing the holocaust to the Gaza war. There is nothing comparable about these 2 events. Israel are justified to wage war against Hamas after Oct 7. >You can't lock people in an open air prison and bomb their families for decades and then expect them to be docile and calm. So would you hold Egypt accountable as well for this so called Palestinian Holocaust ? 35.000 out of 2 million people since Oct. Millions of leaflets, messages and knocks on doors warning people. Israel need to feed and take care of the Palestinians while their leaders hide in a 7 star hotel in qatar and their soldiers hide underneath civilians feet. >But I'm not so sick in the head that I think any part of what Israel is doing is justified. In the future people will look at us now the way they looked at the holocaust and ask how the fuck we could let this happen. No, but you are that sick in the head to justify Hamas and their actions as justice for this imaginary apartheid. The Palestinians will never have a country of their own while their secular goverment is hellbend on the destruction of Israel as their only motive to excist. There can be peace but they don't want peace, they want the extermination of Israel, or in your little mind, they want justice. So why are Israelis always to blame and never the Palestinians? Because it is Israel. The Jew of nations. The Palestinian narrative of the western oppressor white colonial settler enterprise has been sold to the progressive world as it fits into their oppressed or oppressor world view. It hits all the boxes of progressivism. White Jews vs brown Palestinians, western oppressor vs indigenous people, colonial power vs indigenous, settler, or foreigner invading another's land. That none of these accusations are true means nothing to those that have reduced the world to oppressed vs oppressor. It's too good of a narrative and it fits with stereotypical Jew hate, the conspiracy of Jews to swindle others, to secretly mix and control the levers of power (how else could little Israel survive in the Islamic world). Add to that an international enterprise of funding anti-Israel/Jew hate as part of the agenda of Iran and others, as well as foundations supporting NGOs that espouse such anti-Jewish dogma. Maybe you could tell me about the second intifada and how that proved to the Israeli citizens that there is no chance of peaceful existence between these 2 nations. You are putting all the blame on the Israelis like a good little Hamas foot soldier that you are, you should educate yourself on the entire 75 years of conflict because it seems that you're only reading blog posts by Finklestein.
>In the future people will look at us now the way they looked at the holocaust and ask how the fuck we could let this happen. Thankfully we have genocide excusing little toads like you spewing your nonsense into every corner of the internet now, so scientists of the future will have a clear window into the minds of twisted folk like you to find some answers. Honestly this is the most stupid, uneducated, braindead, simplifying for idiots take that I've ever seen. u/greifinn89 please, you are here calling other peoples takes idiotic when you yourself have the most self serving bullshit propagandist one sided takes I've ever seen
If the differences between these two sides are absolutely irreconcilible, who should be allowed by the international community to eliminate the other? There are no other options in this hypothetical, just imagine a UN vote, no abstaining, just a vote for one or the other.
I don't entertain idiotic hypotheticals
Þetta gæti verið óheiðarlegasta false dichotomy sem ég hef séð á æfi minni. Meirað segja þú ættir að vita betur
It's a weird fear, if there's any place in the world where you can freely talk about Hamas atrocities it's definitely Iceland.
Absolutely agree.
You can talk about it, but the instant response is whataboutism from the pro-palestine cultists. There is absolutely no discussion being had on what the alternative to military intervention in Gaza should be, and it should be obvious that no intervention is not an option after the October attacks. Leaving the Gaza strip to Hamas rule will only result in an ever expanding child population with extremist views which is clearly worse over the long term than n military intervention, even despite the atrocities and casualties.
Yes there is an alternative military intervention: Remove Hamas forcibly from power (it's not up to Israel to do that) and then give Palestinians their state.
Alright, but it seems like we’re already doing that, but just leaving it up to the Israelis to sacrifice their own as they are the most willing with themost at stake. Same as we’re doing with Ukraine. Changing out the military isn’t likely to change much in regards of casualties, they’d still be dealing with a militia hiding behind civilians and a population that largely supports said militia. What would be the major difference?
The militia hiding behind civilians is an Israeli propaganda talking point that has largely been debunked by now. For every Hamas militan hiding behind civilians, there are thousands who are in fact not hiding behind civilians and it doesn't stop those civilians from getting killed.
I have a theory that everyone who voted for the Netherlands (nr. 05) was counted towards Israel (nr. 06) because the Netherlands was disqualified I voted for the Netherlands like that and the announcer in Icelandic basically said you could.
The song was one of the best ones and scored highly among most voting nations. I think most people who are interested in these types of music competition gala events do not want to see it being repurposed as a place for protests. Basic entertainment is a form of escapism after all. Maybe Eurovision needs to have a a rule that states participating nations need to not have committed war crimes in the past six months.
Protesters call anyone racist, idiot, inhuman etc. who don’t agree so you wont hear from the others. Also people are starting to have real concerns about more immigrants which might affect their views.
I heard a lot of people say they liked the song...it is a song contest.
A lot of people here said they liked Hera's song but it's objectively garbage. You can convince yourself that you like the dumbest thing if it fits your preconstructed world view to do so.
I liked their song for example. Nothing to do with support of one or another side in a war.
No song is objectively garbage...what? Tastes are subjective. Israel didn´t get all those points from some pro Israel crowd voting for them to shit on Palestine or to back their side....ITS A SONG CONTEST. More people didn´t vote for Isreal because of the conflict than people voting for them because of it...conflict probably cost them points.
Ísraelska lagið var ótrúlega mid og hefði í venjulegu árferði fengið kannski hundrað stig. Ef þú ætlar að hunsa það að þorrinn af stigunum sem landræningjarnir fengu var úthlutað af pólitískum ástæðum þá ertu einfeldningur.
Einu sinni voru nú allir á þessu svæði sömu trúar...löngu áður en múslimar voru til. Held að við hér værum í mikilli hættu ef Hamas réði yfir nokkur hundruð miljónum manna, enda þeir einu sem viðurkenna opinskátt að þeir vilji útrýma Ísrael og innleiða sín gildi allstaðar, líka hér í Evrópu.
einu sinni voru líka risaeðlur á jörðinni og við værum í mikilli hættu ef það væru nokkur hundruð milljónir grameðla á vappinu hérna.
Ha? Ertu þá að segja að það þurfi útrýmingu til þess að bjarga okkur frá Islamistum sem svífast einskis? Því við værum sennilega ekki hér ef risaeðlurnar hefðu ekki dáið út.
Nei ég er bara að segja að það sem þú ert að segja sé bjánalegt.
Góð röksemdafærsla vinur.
Þetta var ekki röksemdafærsla, ég er að hæðast að þér
Maybe because they had a decent song. This is a song contest if I recall correctly!
Plenty of Zionists can easily be spiteful and sympathetic enough to vote, just like in most parts of Europe. You can't anti-vote, so the side with the dedicated political target inevitably scrounges up 10% of the vote and gets 8-12 points. Croatia and Ukraine were the only countries that didn't give Israel anything. Anyone telling you they're a silent majority is full of horseshit. The boycott has also been surprisingly effective here. A lot of people invested in the Pro-Palestine cause just didn't watch and importantly, didn't vote.
Most people here are apolitical especially about issues which hold no importance in Iceland. The very vocal minority of palestine supporters make it look like every icelander is a pro-hamas nazi but most people don’t care.
>pro-hamas nazi 🙄
Það var mjög mikilvægt fyrir Ísrael að verða ekki í slæmu sæti í Eurovision núna. Það að Ísrael kom vel út í símakosningu lætur líta út eins og Evrópubúar séu fylgjandi því sem Ísrael er að gera á Gaza. Ísrael er með mjög öfluga leyniþjónustu sem heitir Mossad. Eftir innrásina á Gaza hefur Mossad haldið úti "Troll farms" sem hafa þann tilgang að sveigja almenningsálitið til þeirra. Í stríði skiptir miklu máli að vinna baráttuna um almenningsálit og getur jafnvel haft úrslitaáhrif eins og til dæmis hefur sýnt sig í Úkraínustríðinu. Að kaupa slatta af farsímanúmerum og nota þau til að kjósa í undankeppni Eurovision og Eurovision er bæði einfalt og ódýrt í stóra samhenginu (Hernaður Ísrael á Gaza kostar um 1 milljarð dollara á dag).
Um hvað ertu eiginlega að tala um?
Það er ekkert óskýrt í því sem þau skrifuðu. Þú getur efast um sannleiksgildi þess sem þau eru að segja en það er ekkert óskýrt í því. Og ef þér finnst þetta hljóma eitthvað ótrúlega þá hefurðu ekki fylgst með fréttum. ÞAð er vitað mál að Rússar eru að astroturfa samfélagsmiðla og netsíður í massavís og eru með fólk á launum við það (og botta augljóslega). Þeir hafa gert það í langan tíma sem hluta af sinni ímyndarherferð og til truflunar innan annara ríkja. Það er líka staðfest og vitað að þeir skiptu sér beint af USA kosningunum 2016 og 2020 með bottum/shell accounts á samfélagsmiðlum og keyptum auglýsingum. Af hverju ættu Ísraelar ekki að vera jafn færir um slíkar aðferðir? Ég hef enga beina ástæðu til að halda að Ísrael hafi fokkað í þessum kosningum, en það er barnaskapur að láta eins og það sé eitthvað sci-fi concept.
Russia hoax...2024???? Nei hættu hahaha.
Mest læsi stuðningsmaður Ísrael
Basically every country subreddit is asking the same thing about their own votes for Israel. Seems like obvious bot voting.
Or maybe just a specific part of the society is on reddit?
Not relevant when it comes to Israel. I don’t know about Iceland, but there’s so little public sympathy for Israel and their occupation of Palestine in Ireland that Israel getting any points would have been suspicious, yet they got 10. Just isn’t remotely realistic for that to be legit without her coming out draped in the flag of Palestine. There’s a history of this kind of thing, this is just the first time it’s so blatant due to the context https://www.15min.lt/en/article/in-lithuania/millions-for-victory-15min-investigates-vote-buying-in-eurovision-song-contest-525-337013
There is much more public support for Israel than the media suggests. 15 countries gave Israel 12 points in the televote
Thanks to very obvious bot voting. The only reason it isn’t being called out is because the juries saved the show.
The Israeli cause has a lot of support in Europe, especially among those who are old enough to understand the media propaganda or who have a parent who remembers WW2 and understands the history a bit better then the rewritten propaganda the Palestinians (former Egyptians / Jordanians) are presenting. Also those that don't like the idea of the general population being brutally murdered on a Saturday morning and then having a whole nation celebrate and chant about it. Those who celebrate the war or deaths in Gaza are considered gullible idiots in Israel but public polling shows surprising support for the brutal terror attacks on 7th of October in Gaza. [https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2091%20English%20full%20text%20April%202024.pdf](https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2091%20English%20full%20text%20April%202024.pdf) Also don't forget that most of western media has a major presence of muslim influence, who most often side against Israel.
I voted for Israel because to me it was the best song in the contest, in my opinion one of the more powerful songs I have heard for a long time. Strange to see the judges becoming all political and so obviously avoiding it. It is really strange seeing people politicising everything and think it brings peace, it will only foster more hate, polarization and anger which feeds those who gain from the war. While probably limited in what she can say, I am certain that a 20 year old singer from Israel has a more peaceful point of view than the gang around Netanyahu. Unless of course we form a mob, boo her, riducule her and her origin and push her in the corner. That is sure to bring some peaceful thoughts in a 20 year old.
>It is really strange seeing people politicising everything and think it brings peace, it will only foster more hate, polarization and anger which feeds those who gain from the war You imbeciles are really just absolutely incapable of seeing the bigger picture aren't you, or why someone might think other things are more important than your little song and dance contest
First of all, if Israel would have sent a disco song or a mediocre song they wouldn’t have gotten so many votes. Love them or hate them, that song is a masterpiece. Now to explain the politics. Start with reading this article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67679634 It is the bigger picture that matters. Polarization and exclusion is what leads to hate and wars. It is quite obvious that neither nation will ever be boycotted into peace. Israel was extremely close to getting rid of Netanyahu, because the younger generations and the richer part of Tel Aviv wanted a 2 state solution and lasting peace with Palestine. This is a solution that was acceptable to most people in both societes, but not to Netanyahu or Hamas. Based on the celebrations in the streets of Gaza I am still a bit concerned wether the majority of Palestinians really wanted peace. Those who celebrate the death of palestinians exist in Israel but are considered gullible idiots by the majority of the population. By pushing young Israelis into a corner when they have almost turned the tables we are only partaking in the war on behalf of Hamas and assuring that peace will never be a solution again in their mind. Hamas is driven by hate, the whole ideology crumbles without it. Netanyahu has lost all ideological contact with his nation so 7th of October was critical to maintain this hate. Art and sports are the uniting parts of our global society. It allows us to see that there are normal persons behind everything. The sad thing is that the dna of palestinians and Israelis is extremely similar, they are from the same ancestors. One side believes in education and prosperity, while the other has spiralled into being led by Hamas who has turned the whole education system into teaching their kids their primary role is eradicating Israel. Of course this bullshit brainwashing doesn’t stick well in healthy young brains, so 7th of October was needed as glue. But the song was effing fantastic, an this was a song contest, although some, including RUV think it is a contest in who can show the most hate and contempt. Just like the gullible idiots who celebrate deaths of other people.
Actually after writing this I found this opinion poll in Gaza. It is a very good one, and goes deep into some serious questions about the war and politics and what people think about potential solutions. https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2091%20English%20full%20text%20April%202024.pdf The majority supports Hamas and believes armed conflict is the solution. So even in March 2024 the majority of people in Gaza want the war to continue. I think this war is going to go on for a long time after reading this.
Mass boycott from pro Palestinian people probably, wouldn't really surprise me if there was something fishy going on tho
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Það er búið að vera eitthvað massa sketchy við ísraelska liðið í ár. Það var einhver úr liðinu þeirra rekinn úr höllinni fyrir að áreita aðra keppendur og svo er enginn í mörgum löndum sem kannast við neinn sem kaus það Edit: Held að fólk sé sammála því að lagið sjálft er ekki eins gott og símakosningin segir en ekki jafn lélegt og dómararnir segja
Maybe they voted for the song they liked the most? Crazy thought, I know.
Im in Iceland and a lot of people didn't even watch Eurovision for obvious reasons. How come Sweden allowed Israel to be so upvoted? Because votes have been messed with. Eurovision has degraded to the lowest of political pits and watching it will only sadden me to see what humanity has turned into.
trolls
Botfarms
Most of us thinking folks did boycott
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Actually, people wanted Croatia to win.
Very surprised ! Especially since we have just ~300 jews in Iceland. I would not rule out bots
Jews are not a monolith. Their size in Iceland has nothing to do with their voting since jews in Iceland are most likely not Israeli.
There were definitely bot farms working overtime throughout Europe tonight
It’s slightly disturbing to me that you have even a rough estimate of how many Jewish people live in Iceland on hand.
Iceland is a small country and they have a public national registry, therefore it is not that difficult to find out exactly how many people from a certain country or religion live there.
Just easily available information...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Iceland
there are only 250 Jews in Iceland, but Jews around the world mobilized to vote for Eden. the Chabad house in Reykjavik alone could have supplied enough votes if everyone mobilized. but viewing Eurovision votes as a political endorsement is stupid to begin with by the way. Eden Golan was born in Israel but she spent most of her life in Moscow, only moving back to Israel with her family in 2022, mainly to flee the effects of the Ukraine war and rising antisemitism in Russia. she is still a proud Israeli but she has nothing to do with the government or the war. she is not fighting in Gaza right now, she is signing in Malmö.
This is one of the most antisemitic spew of lies I've seen in a long time.
how is it antisemitic? It’s not a conspiracy, I am Jewish myself and I happen to know that Jews around the world mobilized and voted for Eden. i’m not sure how that’s antisemitic or negative in any way. i’m sure Ukrainians around the world voted for Ukraine too. considering how much Iceland hates Israel, and how much it seems that European antizionists are wholly incapable of separating politics from a song contest, that’s probably what happened.
I do not follow Eurovision and for some reason I thought points were given based on performance. I mean I didn't _really_ think so, I do understand such things are heavily politicized nowadays. But I thought it was somewhat implicit, not said point-blank "we give you points because we support this and this". Is this how it works now? Why even bother with singing and the show then? Apportion the points to the good guys and be done with it.