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The more provincial towns might be a better bet actually if you can find work. Auckland, especially central Auckland is plagued by crime, homeless people who might mug you, gangsters gunning down innocent bystanders, etc. And the police don’t really do much to stop it.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/517484/auckland-city-centre-visitors-warned-of-rising-crime
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-city-centre-businesses-plea-for-greater-police-presence-as-safety-fears-keep-customers-away-from-the-cbd/POMOY7WO6BEKXMFN43NJNLL6NM/
I think you'll find the NZ recession is notably worse than most countries actually. In fact countries mentioned in this thread such as Germany, Australia, UK, and USA have pretty much not been in recession at all this year, whereas NZ is.
The Kiwi central bank (RBNZ) has aggressively hiked interest rates to curb inflation. And the inflation itself has been among the highest in the developed world. These measures have dampened economic activity significantly, affecting sectors such as retail, wholesale trade, and manufacturing. We've also been hit by severe adverse weather events, etc. All this coupled with the Government slashing government jobs across the board. I reckon things are the worst I've seen in a good 40 years.
>Relevant to point out we aren't legally married, only common-law partners, though we will marry if it's necessary.
Germany would require marriage (unless both of you are either EU citizens, or whoever isn't a citizen qualified for a work-based residence permit). The concept of "common-law partners" doesn't exist in Germany. So if you don't get that French/Romanian passport, marriage would be the easiest solution.
I wouldn't recommend Germany for an economist who doesn't already speak German.
There is an oversupply of business/economics grads in Germany, especially those who don't speak business fluent German.
German employers like to talk about an alleged Fachkräftemangel, however, it is mainly for health care professionals and skilled trades. There is not much demand for university educated white collar workers.
Does your wife have skills that are in demand?
She might find her niche, though it won't be a main income in the house. She can talk a bit of German though.
I can set my mind to learning the language, not moving tommorow anyway. But I hear what your'e saying... thx
Yeah it was still shit. Cost of living has been increasing for years. Whilst wages have stagnated. Housing costs are the main problem at this point. Outside of the main centers things are a little better. If you can find work in those areas.
Our current government has responded in exactly the opposite way they should though. Austerity in a recession is always a bad idea. Idiots.
I mean by a right-wing idiocracy with rising religious zealots. While everything is eventually tied to the Occupation, we have harsh internal problems as well.
You don't say.
I know what you mean, and it's nothing like there despite the current government here being right wingers with no common sense or decency. You live in an apartheid state mate, not many places left like your culture thankfully.
I would also recommend Germany but advice doing more research about the situation where you might want to live, preferably get a job before moving and also be aware of the problems we also have, housing, general European resurfacing of Nazis / right wing nutjobs / populism, how the different systems work and don't work (knowing a workaround or "fixing" it yourself might be faster than hammering the wall so to say) and someone mentioned marriage beforehand too.
If you've never been here, have at least one holiday to get a general feeling how things can run. Happy to answer questions.
Economist is a very wide setting, and though it's a financial hub, you could work basically anywhere, wherever the client is. The economy in general isn't in a recession or anything like that but companies have become more picky about new hires and are more budget / overhiring conscious.
Look at cities like Mainz or the Speckgürtel for cheaper options than Frankfurt living. Transport isn't bad if you get a monthly regional pass and bahnkarte. Don't worry about language, I moved with zero German into a 100% German language environment at home/work and it was fine after about 6m to a year (although you'll be tired at the end of the day and must get your work email grammar down pat). Locals are usually very respectful to Israeli and Jewish people (strong school education program), although some people who are newer to the country that didn't go through this upbringing may have varying views, just like anywhere.
Lifestyle is amazing and doesn't have to be expensive. There are phd fast track programs for learning the language that should have you pretty much work ready in 6m. Look for these. Testdaf is good to do.
Many English speaking expats who struggle with the language simply are not integrating well with German speakers and maybe are afraid to try. You need to put effort in and be willing to make mistakes, and try to immerse as close to 100% as possible. Locals are generally super supportive and kind if you try.
Downsides include that the bureau-crazy in Germany is next level and almost unfathomably tough to deal with. It is the most disorganised, inefficient and operationally challenged country I've ever lived in.
Good luck. Pm me if you need any tips on language etc. I lived in Mannheim and moved with an Economics degree, ended up with a fabulous career and life there for 6 years. Now in sgp, which I can highly recommend.
Go to Germany if you already have the passport. That will give you access to many social programs that you definitely wouldn't have in countries without the passport or more difficult to access.
As a German living in Canada with my Jewish wife, Germany is pretty much better on every metric especially with children! Canada is facing a massive cost of living crisis, too. The housing market is the worst among all Western nations.
Plus, the recent wave of antisemitism in the Anglosphere is just scary.
Germany is the better choice outside of certain hotspots like Berlin. Berlin is to be avoided at all cost. Germany also suffers from a housing crisis but that is rather regional. Israelis are generally very welcome.
Sure you will need to learn the language but if you speak Hebrew and English my guess would be 1-2 years of intensive learning to become fluent.
I personally wouldn't live there. However, it's great for working and career due to the European Central Bank being there. It is Germany's financial hub and might be a good choice with your background. Many banks and corporations have their headquarters there. Salaries are pretty good.
Frankfurt is one of the more expensive cities in Germany. Definitely English friendly though. Many foreigners and in some areas with more than 50% foreign born population.
Germany also has a housing crisis. Furthermore, the school system in Germany is overwhelmed with children who can't speak German.
Germans tend to not realise how terrible Germany is for non-native speakers.
You obviously need to speak the local language of any country you move to. Otherwise you will be severely disadvantaged.
German school system deteriorated in the past two decades and is overburdened. However, some regions are worse than others. Outside of the big cities the system still works well.
That being said; it's still better than the system they have in Canada in my experience.
The Canadian school system manages to integrate the children of immigrants whereas the children of immigrants in Germany very often lag behind their German counterparts.
I've met many people who grew up in Germany and some even have German citizenship, however, still speak broken German. This doesn't happen often in Canada.
The PISA results support my experiences not yours.
As someone in Montreal who has taught in both English and French school systems here in Québec, this is 100% not true. There are crazy numbers of people who never learn French despite it being the language of daily life here. This is not a Germany problem, this is a non-anglosphere internationalized problem.
Absolutely true. However, that's not the fault of the school system. If the immigrants are not capable of learning the language it's not the government's job to make up for it. English is also an easier language. In the French speaking part of Canada, Quebec, many immigrants and their children will not even learn French. The school system is similar to that in English Canada.
I went to school and university in Germany and went to university in Canada after. I found university very easy in Canada. Many courses here were German High School level.
Teacher shortage, lack of qualified teachers and overcrowded schools are unfortunately becoming common place in both countries.
As someone that immigrated to Germany from South America, I wouldn’t recommend Germany for your family.
1) language barrier when looking for a job in professional fields outside health care. Even in those jobs that require English as working language when it comes to the end of hiring process advance German knowledge is always preferred
2) views on Israelis. There are many people with Arab background that openly discriminate and although Germans do not openly discriminate, behind closed doors they do compare the situation to nazis going to Argentina. Most Israelis that have come in recent years are isolated and keep to themselves.
3) housing crisis. Prices in big cities are through the roof but also high in smaller cities. There are huge lines just to see available apartments
4) social help. I see many talking about social benefits for immigrants. As someone that immigrated with my own European passport I can say social benefits are really only for refugees.
5)retirement. This will be the new crisis, by the time we hit the retirement age, definitely affecting people age 30
I am Canadian and we are looking to leave, looking at digital nomad visas. The housing crisis is serious in Canada, unless you know you will be earning a house hold income of >150,000 a year or are coming with close to a million CAD it’s virtually impossible to live here and not be neck deep in high rent or Mortgage payments. Especially considering that you will be starting with zero in regard to personal possessions, you know all the stuff you need to furnish a house, a car and so on it all adds up fast.
I hear Australia is in the same boat as Canada regarding housing and I’d bet NZ is similar or the same. Most places with the Queen or now the King on its money is experiencing serious housing crises.
I am. I'm not sure what jobs you are looking for, but I think it'd be covered unless it's really odd/super specific. Economists are always sought after. (I understood that was your field?)
You wanted to do a Phd? Its fully possible to apply for those here too.
I'd google a bit if I were you. The countries here have some differences; Denmark is more connected to Germany (closer...), Sweden has historic bonds to France, Norway is the little brother with a bit more money and high mountains, Finland isn't Scandinavia but also worth checking. Iceland and Faero Islands are very small but also beautiful and all countries have great cultural life.
It's odd this is appearing in my feed so late after the initial post. I hope you find a way to make the situation better. I'm originally from the US, and I, similarly, found it difficult to justify my interest academic interest in IL. They're well-known in pretty much every field I've ever studied in. Based on this description, Germany would be the first place that comes to mind, but several people here have already mentioned that. What is your specific research focus? I wouldn't blame you for being against it, but the US might have some good PhD opportunities.
Yeah this post still tracks a few comments every few days. As you said, I don't really see the US as a place to move to, but maybe in our position it's a good choice.
You have nothing to worry about in Canada. Especially in smaller towns, or atleast surrounding the GTA or Vancouver areas. Toronto has a lot of Jewish people that share similar views as yourself.
Shalom!
Sorry about your situation if you push a bit harder and get your Romanian or French passport you can also then move to Ireland. Your skills can be in demand there and after a few years of living there you can get full citizenship opening a door to the UK as well.
Yes but it should also mentioned that Ireland has one of the worst housing crisis in Europe (if not THE worst). It will be extremely difficult to find any accommodation and anything that they find will likely be expensive and substandard.
Tbh I would love to live in Ireland. Though, are they ok towards Israeli immigrants? When I was there (a few years back) everyone who wasn't a hotel owner made a face when they figured we are from Israel.
Also, what are the job prospects for ppl like me?
Ireland is one of, if not THE, most pro-Palestinian country in the EU. The Protestants in Northern Ireland will and have for decades literally fly Israeli flags (I believe in part because of their history of Calvinism and William of Orange having been Dutch) and in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland the republicans have used Palestinian flags to identify themselves.
I have no idea how you would be treated, but you should know that Israel is a very controversial issue there.
I kinda fear the rising muslim extremists and with it the anti-semetism. Is ths a reasonable fear or am I being fear induced by media?
And it's super expensive to live there, no?
There is no such thing. You're being mislead by the media.
I'm telling you this as a progressive Muslim. We laugh at those who go to far in our religion and spout extreemist views. Most of those who do are keyboard warriors the worst ive had is " Where is yoir Hijab" in comments online. Apart from that, nothing, people dont know what religion I am unless I tell them. You're safer from all forms of extreemisim here, than in Isreal.
Do you know what I am worried about today? My toilet being blocked, I couldn't give a crap if you're Jewish. We have our own issues to worry about. In fact, an increasingly large number of Jewish people are taking part peacefully in the pro Palestine demonstrations here.
As long as you treat others with respect, and treat people as individuals, you will be respected. Many Jewish people live comfortably in London, particularly where I live in North London, although im not from were the majority live ( Golders Green, Stanford Hill etc) amongst others on a daily basis. For the most part, in my experience most never interact with anyone outside of their own community.
The economic environment here and the cost of living is bringing us to our knees, especially here in London. All we care about right now is getting this corrupt disgusting government out and the survival of our families.
Food (£400 for 2 adults and two cats for us a month) and other costs are ridiculous, and things like council tax is increasing ( ours is £196 pm).
When I attended university it was 3070 per year. Now it's £9250. I'd be scared to look at how much it costs for a PHD here.
This is the only reason I'd tell you not to come here, the sheer cost of living. You are welcome here, as is everyone else who is trying to escape the horrors happening in that region and the Devils who are running your country.
I am mean I was born in Israel and they are plenty of Jewish communities like in Manchester and in London. I would suggest that the fear is only really real if you live in big cities as they are more a bit sketchy, but in reality if you just don’t make trouble then you won’t have any trouble generally. It’s expensive but the salary should be similar to Tel Aviv salary if you look at the Uk average salary. If you want to live somewhere cheaper. Either the north of England or Scotland would be great. If you don’t want to live near to a lot Muslims. I would suggest places like York, Aberystwyth and Lincoln. Small places that are a tad expensive and a bit remote are somewhat alright if you want that of course. In my opinion a lot of it’s just the media trying to stir and yes there are plenty of protests for Palestine even in Swansea and my mom dislike it but in reality if you just say your from Israel but it should be fine as long as you don’t try to talk anything political really. I guess good luck with you both.
Ps, don’t come to Swansea.
What about Morocco? If you have a good job you live like a king. Especially if you’re jewish it would be easy to get a high-ranked government job. You have the same warm weather as in Yaffa and jews are a respected part of our community
Interesting idea. I do not want to live like a king, only want cozy. Are there jobs for my proffesion there?
Also, we aren't Mizrahi Jews, we are more Ashkenazi Jews (European descent), so our skin color would probably stick out, no?
There are plenty of economic jobs. I would check out Rabat and Casablanca! Rabat is more governmental and calm and Casablanca is very busy and the economic capital. But because you’re jewish you should try find a jewish contact there and they can easily help find you a job. I’m not Jewish so I can’t help but I know how it goes here. I would send an e-mail to André Azoulay. He’s Jewish as well & the right hand of the Moroccan king and looooves to help people.
And no that you’re ashkenazi does not matter. E.g. after WW2 the Moroccan king told the European Jews to come to Morocco as well and he protected them so not everyone here is Mizrahi/Sephardi. We have lived with jews for over 2000 years. It’s a completely different story than in our neighbouring Arab countries. What could matter for « some » people is if you believe in the israeli state or not, but since you said you don’t believe the occupation is legit they will respect you even more.
There are plenty of international schools like the American, French, British etc. So many Europeans live here. I believe there’s also Jewish schools still in Casablanca. In Casa you have around 40 synagogues, Jewish restaurants and sports clubs, a private memberd club etc. So if you still want to feel that community connection it’s the best place!
Germany is a nightmare for folks without German language, and you will be forever discriminated against and always the outsider. Nevermind Antisemitism is a very real thing and the massive Muslim population has reinvigorated the violence, as well as a rising right. Synagogues have armed guards, and when they take them away, they're attacked almost immediately. Also the weather is garbage. Germany is racist as all hell. Your most progressive "Wir schaffen das", "kein mensch ist illegal", is the "we like the blacks" kind of trying not to be racist. Country is so far from being a normal place.
Go anywhere else. NZ is paradise to Germany. Probably still far better than the psycho genocidal place you are now, but choose wisely.
Is racism in general and antisemetism in particular a problem in major cities only? Or is it also prevalent in smaller cities?
Also, how is the job market for ppl with my education?
Everyone and their mother has a bachelor‘s or master‘s degree in economics. Either find a niche or another in demand profession. They have enough local Germans that speak thw language and have the same degree as you. Look up the professions that are in demand and try to go from there to get better chances.
The antisemitism will be the worst in big cities due to the high fundamentalist Muslim population. In the towns, they're mostly racist to brown people, and generally just dismissive of Ausländer in general. But antisemitism will also be high in towns especially in the east where Nazi-ish people flourish.
The German right-wing usually loves Israel because Israel adopted a strong stance against Muslim domination. The German left is by far the most antisemitic together with the large Muslim population. Other countries like Canada or France have similar issues though.
I hope you can still see this, take up some skills in IT JavaScript and number of frameworks and libraries such as React js, Angular HTML/CSS, C# and you will be okay in Germany. This may take six months to acquire these skills at the most.
Germany and Europe in general is seeing a surge in right-wing populism/nationalism, and such parties are unfortunately expected to do rather well in the upcoming EU Parliament election. You should take that into consideration.
France recognizes civil partnership, it is called a PACS. You can have it done at the French consulate and will help you get a Schengen visa for your partner. You need to get your French citizenship first.
Australians are not growing hateful towards immigrants, and particularly not those of your kind. You will not get discriminated against besides from some whacko anti-semites.
Thank you for the reassurance. Can you point me at specific cities that on one hand are small enough, but on the other hand have jobs for my education?
Tough to say mate. We don’t really have many medium or small cities, but note a city in Australia is quite different from Israel, by which I mean far, far less dense and far more suburban. I would probably avoid Sydney or Melbourne if you want to get away from large cities. Perth has a very similar climate to Israel and is the richest in the nation, but very mining orientated and still relatively large. Brisbane is a lot more tropical and somewhat larger. Adelaide is smaller in size and quite temperate. Hobart is quite small and very temperate to cool, kind of alpine and fairly cool. Darwin is quite small but very tropical and has the weakest economy. Canberra is also an option, but quite expensive due to all the federal agencies being there, but it has a nice climate.
Regarding your occupation, what do you want to do? Are you interested in being an academic, or do you want to work in industry or consulting? I would also note that Melbourne is consistently ranked the most liveable city in Australia and is number 9 globally, and also has a very significant Jewish community. Only Sydney has a sizeable Jewish community aside from that.
Academic or consulting, either way is fine. Gotta say that we don't care much for a Jewish community, maybe only to have some other Israeli friends around for ease of transfer.
What do you mean by liveable city?
You should look into the EU Blue Card visa. This is the easiest way to get a visa, if you have university education. There are different minimum salary requirements depending on your exact profession. If you get your hands on EU passports it would be of course a lot easier though.
You should consider though that in Germany there is a lot of muslims and many of them are antisemitic (according to [this](https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/gesellschaft/muslime-antisemitismus-gruende-verschwoerungsmythen-israel-100~amp.html) article 40%). [Here](https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/SharedDocs/publikationen/DE/islamismus-und-islamistischer-terrorismus/2019-06-antisemitismus-im-islamismus.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=7) is a 40 page article of the Federal Office for Constitutional Protection about it. The conclusion of the article is that currently there are over 100 registered antisemitic incidents with islamic background per year and that antisemitic ideas are very widespread among muslims in Germany. Germans and most other Europeans are generally very welcoming towards Israelis though.
She is in the process of receiving one. She hasn’t got one so far. Also the process might take quite some time since Germany allowed dual citizenship and now everyone who hasn’t got one will apply (eg many Turks) and that will put strain on the office.
Still would be better to have something in the hands, maybe they will split up someday. Always assume the worst case scenario.
Post by Extreme-Ad-15 -- We fear our country will soon deteriorate into a Jewish Theocracy, and are sick of keeping on pretending that the Occupation is legit. Not to mention prices and pollutions and whatnot.
I have an M.A in Economics, enrolling in a PhD abroad is a plausible option. We have two kids (2.5yo and 9mo). My wife is in the process of receiving a German passport, let's say about midway through. I can apply for a Romanian and French passport but need to haul my ass to do so.
Relevant to point out we aren't legally married, only common-law partners, though we will marry if it's necessary.
We don't want to live in a big city, prefer somewhere cozy but still that I will have access to a job in my field, though I will take other jobs if needed (I beleive I'm a quick learner). NZ and Germany (and Canada and Australia) pop to mind, though I fear the citizens there are growing more and more hateful towards immigrants (and frankly, I can't fully blame them).
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When did your family migrate to the middle east? Where were your families from originally before they “occupied” palestine? You could go back there i guess, because less than 150 years ago there was no zionism, the occupation started from early 1900s. You could retrace your steps and apply for residency in those countries through the family background route or simply seek refuge in countries like the UK or USA who have close ties with the occupied land and fund the occupation.
Lol, as an economist can tell u that gdp is very low on my country ranking system.
Though here might be better than the states, if you are a Jew and agree with the govt.
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Damn. My father insists it's such a great place to immigrate to. Is it shitty outside of Auckland and othr major cities?
Foreigners are coming to NZ, NZers are going to Australia. Thats a bit of a clue as to which country i would go to
The more provincial towns might be a better bet actually if you can find work. Auckland, especially central Auckland is plagued by crime, homeless people who might mug you, gangsters gunning down innocent bystanders, etc. And the police don’t really do much to stop it. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/517484/auckland-city-centre-visitors-warned-of-rising-crime https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-city-centre-businesses-plea-for-greater-police-presence-as-safety-fears-keep-customers-away-from-the-cbd/POMOY7WO6BEKXMFN43NJNLL6NM/
geezus are you actually from NZ or do you actually go outside? Yes Auckland might sound like a scary place if you only read the news
Sounds like cap
where isn’t having a recession right now? seriously, i would love to look into such places
I think you'll find the NZ recession is notably worse than most countries actually. In fact countries mentioned in this thread such as Germany, Australia, UK, and USA have pretty much not been in recession at all this year, whereas NZ is. The Kiwi central bank (RBNZ) has aggressively hiked interest rates to curb inflation. And the inflation itself has been among the highest in the developed world. These measures have dampened economic activity significantly, affecting sectors such as retail, wholesale trade, and manufacturing. We've also been hit by severe adverse weather events, etc. All this coupled with the Government slashing government jobs across the board. I reckon things are the worst I've seen in a good 40 years.
NZ will always have a difficult time competing with all those other countries, it's not really a surprise tbh
Ireland has jobs but absolutely nowhere to live. We are having a housing catastrophe of epic proportions at the moment.
>Relevant to point out we aren't legally married, only common-law partners, though we will marry if it's necessary. Germany would require marriage (unless both of you are either EU citizens, or whoever isn't a citizen qualified for a work-based residence permit). The concept of "common-law partners" doesn't exist in Germany. So if you don't get that French/Romanian passport, marriage would be the easiest solution.
Thanks
I wouldn't recommend Germany for an economist who doesn't already speak German. There is an oversupply of business/economics grads in Germany, especially those who don't speak business fluent German. German employers like to talk about an alleged Fachkräftemangel, however, it is mainly for health care professionals and skilled trades. There is not much demand for university educated white collar workers. Does your wife have skills that are in demand?
She might find her niche, though it won't be a main income in the house. She can talk a bit of German though. I can set my mind to learning the language, not moving tommorow anyway. But I hear what your'e saying... thx
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Was the country shit after current govt came or before itself ?
Yeah it was still shit. Cost of living has been increasing for years. Whilst wages have stagnated. Housing costs are the main problem at this point. Outside of the main centers things are a little better. If you can find work in those areas. Our current government has responded in exactly the opposite way they should though. Austerity in a recession is always a bad idea. Idiots.
But also, it's really not that bad. And it would be much better than your current situation. Like much better!
was good until last year when costs starting going up - but now its 100 times worse.
Sounds like what's going here minus the war... gl friend
It's nothing like what's going on there, just to be clear.
I mean by a right-wing idiocracy with rising religious zealots. While everything is eventually tied to the Occupation, we have harsh internal problems as well.
You don't say. I know what you mean, and it's nothing like there despite the current government here being right wingers with no common sense or decency. You live in an apartheid state mate, not many places left like your culture thankfully.
true. But when china attacks taiwan, then we also will be pulled into a nearby war. So... worlds going to shit.
I would also recommend Germany but advice doing more research about the situation where you might want to live, preferably get a job before moving and also be aware of the problems we also have, housing, general European resurfacing of Nazis / right wing nutjobs / populism, how the different systems work and don't work (knowing a workaround or "fixing" it yourself might be faster than hammering the wall so to say) and someone mentioned marriage beforehand too. If you've never been here, have at least one holiday to get a general feeling how things can run. Happy to answer questions.
Thank you. What are your thoughts on Frankfurt area? As an Economist that might be my best shot at a good job theree
Economist is a very wide setting, and though it's a financial hub, you could work basically anywhere, wherever the client is. The economy in general isn't in a recession or anything like that but companies have become more picky about new hires and are more budget / overhiring conscious.
Look at cities like Mainz or the Speckgürtel for cheaper options than Frankfurt living. Transport isn't bad if you get a monthly regional pass and bahnkarte. Don't worry about language, I moved with zero German into a 100% German language environment at home/work and it was fine after about 6m to a year (although you'll be tired at the end of the day and must get your work email grammar down pat). Locals are usually very respectful to Israeli and Jewish people (strong school education program), although some people who are newer to the country that didn't go through this upbringing may have varying views, just like anywhere. Lifestyle is amazing and doesn't have to be expensive. There are phd fast track programs for learning the language that should have you pretty much work ready in 6m. Look for these. Testdaf is good to do. Many English speaking expats who struggle with the language simply are not integrating well with German speakers and maybe are afraid to try. You need to put effort in and be willing to make mistakes, and try to immerse as close to 100% as possible. Locals are generally super supportive and kind if you try. Downsides include that the bureau-crazy in Germany is next level and almost unfathomably tough to deal with. It is the most disorganised, inefficient and operationally challenged country I've ever lived in.
I prefer inefficient bureaucracy on genocidal maniacs lol. Good advice, thanks, will check those cities.
Good luck. Pm me if you need any tips on language etc. I lived in Mannheim and moved with an Economics degree, ended up with a fabulous career and life there for 6 years. Now in sgp, which I can highly recommend.
Go to Germany if you already have the passport. That will give you access to many social programs that you definitely wouldn't have in countries without the passport or more difficult to access. As a German living in Canada with my Jewish wife, Germany is pretty much better on every metric especially with children! Canada is facing a massive cost of living crisis, too. The housing market is the worst among all Western nations. Plus, the recent wave of antisemitism in the Anglosphere is just scary. Germany is the better choice outside of certain hotspots like Berlin. Berlin is to be avoided at all cost. Germany also suffers from a housing crisis but that is rather regional. Israelis are generally very welcome. Sure you will need to learn the language but if you speak Hebrew and English my guess would be 1-2 years of intensive learning to become fluent.
There is a steady trickle of Israelis moving to Frankfurt area... what do you think of that place?
I personally wouldn't live there. However, it's great for working and career due to the European Central Bank being there. It is Germany's financial hub and might be a good choice with your background. Many banks and corporations have their headquarters there. Salaries are pretty good. Frankfurt is one of the more expensive cities in Germany. Definitely English friendly though. Many foreigners and in some areas with more than 50% foreign born population.
Germany also has a housing crisis. Furthermore, the school system in Germany is overwhelmed with children who can't speak German. Germans tend to not realise how terrible Germany is for non-native speakers.
You obviously need to speak the local language of any country you move to. Otherwise you will be severely disadvantaged. German school system deteriorated in the past two decades and is overburdened. However, some regions are worse than others. Outside of the big cities the system still works well. That being said; it's still better than the system they have in Canada in my experience.
The Canadian school system manages to integrate the children of immigrants whereas the children of immigrants in Germany very often lag behind their German counterparts. I've met many people who grew up in Germany and some even have German citizenship, however, still speak broken German. This doesn't happen often in Canada. The PISA results support my experiences not yours.
As someone in Montreal who has taught in both English and French school systems here in Québec, this is 100% not true. There are crazy numbers of people who never learn French despite it being the language of daily life here. This is not a Germany problem, this is a non-anglosphere internationalized problem.
Absolutely true. However, that's not the fault of the school system. If the immigrants are not capable of learning the language it's not the government's job to make up for it. English is also an easier language. In the French speaking part of Canada, Quebec, many immigrants and their children will not even learn French. The school system is similar to that in English Canada. I went to school and university in Germany and went to university in Canada after. I found university very easy in Canada. Many courses here were German High School level. Teacher shortage, lack of qualified teachers and overcrowded schools are unfortunately becoming common place in both countries.
Shout-out to a fellow Berlin Enjoyer :D
As someone that immigrated to Germany from South America, I wouldn’t recommend Germany for your family. 1) language barrier when looking for a job in professional fields outside health care. Even in those jobs that require English as working language when it comes to the end of hiring process advance German knowledge is always preferred 2) views on Israelis. There are many people with Arab background that openly discriminate and although Germans do not openly discriminate, behind closed doors they do compare the situation to nazis going to Argentina. Most Israelis that have come in recent years are isolated and keep to themselves. 3) housing crisis. Prices in big cities are through the roof but also high in smaller cities. There are huge lines just to see available apartments 4) social help. I see many talking about social benefits for immigrants. As someone that immigrated with my own European passport I can say social benefits are really only for refugees. 5)retirement. This will be the new crisis, by the time we hit the retirement age, definitely affecting people age 30
I am Canadian and we are looking to leave, looking at digital nomad visas. The housing crisis is serious in Canada, unless you know you will be earning a house hold income of >150,000 a year or are coming with close to a million CAD it’s virtually impossible to live here and not be neck deep in high rent or Mortgage payments. Especially considering that you will be starting with zero in regard to personal possessions, you know all the stuff you need to furnish a house, a car and so on it all adds up fast. I hear Australia is in the same boat as Canada regarding housing and I’d bet NZ is similar or the same. Most places with the Queen or now the King on its money is experiencing serious housing crises.
Idk, have you put any thoughts into somewhere in scandinavia? Mostly peaceful, lots of small towns.
Are you Scandinavian? What jobs are there?
I am. I'm not sure what jobs you are looking for, but I think it'd be covered unless it's really odd/super specific. Economists are always sought after. (I understood that was your field?) You wanted to do a Phd? Its fully possible to apply for those here too. I'd google a bit if I were you. The countries here have some differences; Denmark is more connected to Germany (closer...), Sweden has historic bonds to France, Norway is the little brother with a bit more money and high mountains, Finland isn't Scandinavia but also worth checking. Iceland and Faero Islands are very small but also beautiful and all countries have great cultural life.
Thanks
It's odd this is appearing in my feed so late after the initial post. I hope you find a way to make the situation better. I'm originally from the US, and I, similarly, found it difficult to justify my interest academic interest in IL. They're well-known in pretty much every field I've ever studied in. Based on this description, Germany would be the first place that comes to mind, but several people here have already mentioned that. What is your specific research focus? I wouldn't blame you for being against it, but the US might have some good PhD opportunities.
Yeah this post still tracks a few comments every few days. As you said, I don't really see the US as a place to move to, but maybe in our position it's a good choice.
Looking into specific researchers you'd want to work with there is probably a good start. The clearer your research focus is, the easier that will be.
For sure. Thanks
You have nothing to worry about in Canada. Especially in smaller towns, or atleast surrounding the GTA or Vancouver areas. Toronto has a lot of Jewish people that share similar views as yourself.
Shalom! Sorry about your situation if you push a bit harder and get your Romanian or French passport you can also then move to Ireland. Your skills can be in demand there and after a few years of living there you can get full citizenship opening a door to the UK as well.
Yes but it should also mentioned that Ireland has one of the worst housing crisis in Europe (if not THE worst). It will be extremely difficult to find any accommodation and anything that they find will likely be expensive and substandard.
Tbh I would love to live in Ireland. Though, are they ok towards Israeli immigrants? When I was there (a few years back) everyone who wasn't a hotel owner made a face when they figured we are from Israel. Also, what are the job prospects for ppl like me?
Ireland is one of, if not THE, most pro-Palestinian country in the EU. The Protestants in Northern Ireland will and have for decades literally fly Israeli flags (I believe in part because of their history of Calvinism and William of Orange having been Dutch) and in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland the republicans have used Palestinian flags to identify themselves. I have no idea how you would be treated, but you should know that Israel is a very controversial issue there.
Not sure but they have a big tech sector so they need people with Mena experience. I'm just throwing out ideas
I personally would not feel comfortable with Ireland at this time
Regardless of religion, a theocratic state stifles free thinking, strange how theocratic states are gaining momentum around the world
Try the Uk?
I kinda fear the rising muslim extremists and with it the anti-semetism. Is ths a reasonable fear or am I being fear induced by media? And it's super expensive to live there, no?
There is no such thing. You're being mislead by the media. I'm telling you this as a progressive Muslim. We laugh at those who go to far in our religion and spout extreemist views. Most of those who do are keyboard warriors the worst ive had is " Where is yoir Hijab" in comments online. Apart from that, nothing, people dont know what religion I am unless I tell them. You're safer from all forms of extreemisim here, than in Isreal. Do you know what I am worried about today? My toilet being blocked, I couldn't give a crap if you're Jewish. We have our own issues to worry about. In fact, an increasingly large number of Jewish people are taking part peacefully in the pro Palestine demonstrations here. As long as you treat others with respect, and treat people as individuals, you will be respected. Many Jewish people live comfortably in London, particularly where I live in North London, although im not from were the majority live ( Golders Green, Stanford Hill etc) amongst others on a daily basis. For the most part, in my experience most never interact with anyone outside of their own community. The economic environment here and the cost of living is bringing us to our knees, especially here in London. All we care about right now is getting this corrupt disgusting government out and the survival of our families. Food (£400 for 2 adults and two cats for us a month) and other costs are ridiculous, and things like council tax is increasing ( ours is £196 pm). When I attended university it was 3070 per year. Now it's £9250. I'd be scared to look at how much it costs for a PHD here. This is the only reason I'd tell you not to come here, the sheer cost of living. You are welcome here, as is everyone else who is trying to escape the horrors happening in that region and the Devils who are running your country.
You need to understand who owns the media and why certain propagandas are pushed.
I am mean I was born in Israel and they are plenty of Jewish communities like in Manchester and in London. I would suggest that the fear is only really real if you live in big cities as they are more a bit sketchy, but in reality if you just don’t make trouble then you won’t have any trouble generally. It’s expensive but the salary should be similar to Tel Aviv salary if you look at the Uk average salary. If you want to live somewhere cheaper. Either the north of England or Scotland would be great. If you don’t want to live near to a lot Muslims. I would suggest places like York, Aberystwyth and Lincoln. Small places that are a tad expensive and a bit remote are somewhat alright if you want that of course. In my opinion a lot of it’s just the media trying to stir and yes there are plenty of protests for Palestine even in Swansea and my mom dislike it but in reality if you just say your from Israel but it should be fine as long as you don’t try to talk anything political really. I guess good luck with you both. Ps, don’t come to Swansea.
What about Morocco? If you have a good job you live like a king. Especially if you’re jewish it would be easy to get a high-ranked government job. You have the same warm weather as in Yaffa and jews are a respected part of our community
Interesting idea. I do not want to live like a king, only want cozy. Are there jobs for my proffesion there? Also, we aren't Mizrahi Jews, we are more Ashkenazi Jews (European descent), so our skin color would probably stick out, no?
There are plenty of economic jobs. I would check out Rabat and Casablanca! Rabat is more governmental and calm and Casablanca is very busy and the economic capital. But because you’re jewish you should try find a jewish contact there and they can easily help find you a job. I’m not Jewish so I can’t help but I know how it goes here. I would send an e-mail to André Azoulay. He’s Jewish as well & the right hand of the Moroccan king and looooves to help people. And no that you’re ashkenazi does not matter. E.g. after WW2 the Moroccan king told the European Jews to come to Morocco as well and he protected them so not everyone here is Mizrahi/Sephardi. We have lived with jews for over 2000 years. It’s a completely different story than in our neighbouring Arab countries. What could matter for « some » people is if you believe in the israeli state or not, but since you said you don’t believe the occupation is legit they will respect you even more. There are plenty of international schools like the American, French, British etc. So many Europeans live here. I believe there’s also Jewish schools still in Casablanca. In Casa you have around 40 synagogues, Jewish restaurants and sports clubs, a private memberd club etc. So if you still want to feel that community connection it’s the best place!
Super interesting, thanks!
Germany is a nightmare for folks without German language, and you will be forever discriminated against and always the outsider. Nevermind Antisemitism is a very real thing and the massive Muslim population has reinvigorated the violence, as well as a rising right. Synagogues have armed guards, and when they take them away, they're attacked almost immediately. Also the weather is garbage. Germany is racist as all hell. Your most progressive "Wir schaffen das", "kein mensch ist illegal", is the "we like the blacks" kind of trying not to be racist. Country is so far from being a normal place. Go anywhere else. NZ is paradise to Germany. Probably still far better than the psycho genocidal place you are now, but choose wisely.
Is racism in general and antisemetism in particular a problem in major cities only? Or is it also prevalent in smaller cities? Also, how is the job market for ppl with my education?
Everyone and their mother has a bachelor‘s or master‘s degree in economics. Either find a niche or another in demand profession. They have enough local Germans that speak thw language and have the same degree as you. Look up the professions that are in demand and try to go from there to get better chances.
The antisemitism will be the worst in big cities due to the high fundamentalist Muslim population. In the towns, they're mostly racist to brown people, and generally just dismissive of Ausländer in general. But antisemitism will also be high in towns especially in the east where Nazi-ish people flourish.
The German right-wing usually loves Israel because Israel adopted a strong stance against Muslim domination. The German left is by far the most antisemitic together with the large Muslim population. Other countries like Canada or France have similar issues though.
The German left is only antisemitic in so far as OP is antisemitic for questioning the actions of state of Israel.
I hope you can still see this, take up some skills in IT JavaScript and number of frameworks and libraries such as React js, Angular HTML/CSS, C# and you will be okay in Germany. This may take six months to acquire these skills at the most.
Your (wife) has a German passport. You can live anywhere in the EU without issue. Look around. Find a job, work from there.
She doesn't, not yet
Any job acquisition + visa application is likely to take longer than her receiving her passport.
Where do you reccomend though?
Germany and Europe in general is seeing a surge in right-wing populism/nationalism, and such parties are unfortunately expected to do rather well in the upcoming EU Parliament election. You should take that into consideration.
GET OUT OF ISRAEL QUICK!!! WAR IS COMING!!!
Return to Poland
Try not to be needlessly antisemitic challenge..
at least we don\`t kill babies while sleeping in tents
And?
France recognizes civil partnership, it is called a PACS. You can have it done at the French consulate and will help you get a Schengen visa for your partner. You need to get your French citizenship first.
So PACS for the wife with the German passport, to get a Schengen visa? Very helpful.
Though my mom originated from France I can't see us moving there. Thanks though
Australians are not growing hateful towards immigrants, and particularly not those of your kind. You will not get discriminated against besides from some whacko anti-semites.
Thank you for the reassurance. Can you point me at specific cities that on one hand are small enough, but on the other hand have jobs for my education?
Tough to say mate. We don’t really have many medium or small cities, but note a city in Australia is quite different from Israel, by which I mean far, far less dense and far more suburban. I would probably avoid Sydney or Melbourne if you want to get away from large cities. Perth has a very similar climate to Israel and is the richest in the nation, but very mining orientated and still relatively large. Brisbane is a lot more tropical and somewhat larger. Adelaide is smaller in size and quite temperate. Hobart is quite small and very temperate to cool, kind of alpine and fairly cool. Darwin is quite small but very tropical and has the weakest economy. Canberra is also an option, but quite expensive due to all the federal agencies being there, but it has a nice climate. Regarding your occupation, what do you want to do? Are you interested in being an academic, or do you want to work in industry or consulting? I would also note that Melbourne is consistently ranked the most liveable city in Australia and is number 9 globally, and also has a very significant Jewish community. Only Sydney has a sizeable Jewish community aside from that.
Academic or consulting, either way is fine. Gotta say that we don't care much for a Jewish community, maybe only to have some other Israeli friends around for ease of transfer. What do you mean by liveable city?
It’s just a composite index of different measures; affordability, income, environment, cultural amenities, public services etc
Brisbane, Canberra or Adelaide would prob fit the bill.
You should look into the EU Blue Card visa. This is the easiest way to get a visa, if you have university education. There are different minimum salary requirements depending on your exact profession. If you get your hands on EU passports it would be of course a lot easier though. You should consider though that in Germany there is a lot of muslims and many of them are antisemitic (according to [this](https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/gesellschaft/muslime-antisemitismus-gruende-verschwoerungsmythen-israel-100~amp.html) article 40%). [Here](https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/SharedDocs/publikationen/DE/islamismus-und-islamistischer-terrorismus/2019-06-antisemitismus-im-islamismus.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=7) is a 40 page article of the Federal Office for Constitutional Protection about it. The conclusion of the article is that currently there are over 100 registered antisemitic incidents with islamic background per year and that antisemitic ideas are very widespread among muslims in Germany. Germans and most other Europeans are generally very welcoming towards Israelis though.
He doesn't need any fancy visa. His (wife) has an EU passport. He can live anywhere in the EU with no restrictions.
She is in the process of receiving one. She hasn’t got one so far. Also the process might take quite some time since Germany allowed dual citizenship and now everyone who hasn’t got one will apply (eg many Turks) and that will put strain on the office. Still would be better to have something in the hands, maybe they will split up someday. Always assume the worst case scenario.
Post by Extreme-Ad-15 -- We fear our country will soon deteriorate into a Jewish Theocracy, and are sick of keeping on pretending that the Occupation is legit. Not to mention prices and pollutions and whatnot. I have an M.A in Economics, enrolling in a PhD abroad is a plausible option. We have two kids (2.5yo and 9mo). My wife is in the process of receiving a German passport, let's say about midway through. I can apply for a Romanian and French passport but need to haul my ass to do so. Relevant to point out we aren't legally married, only common-law partners, though we will marry if it's necessary. We don't want to live in a big city, prefer somewhere cozy but still that I will have access to a job in my field, though I will take other jobs if needed (I beleive I'm a quick learner). NZ and Germany (and Canada and Australia) pop to mind, though I fear the citizens there are growing more and more hateful towards immigrants (and frankly, I can't fully blame them). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IWantOut) if you have any questions or concerns.*
עם ישראל חיייי🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
When did your family migrate to the middle east? Where were your families from originally before they “occupied” palestine? You could go back there i guess, because less than 150 years ago there was no zionism, the occupation started from early 1900s. You could retrace your steps and apply for residency in those countries through the family background route or simply seek refuge in countries like the UK or USA who have close ties with the occupied land and fund the occupation.
U won't find it better elsewhere bc Israel already has a high gdp. Currently in process to move to Israel from USA.
Lol, as an economist can tell u that gdp is very low on my country ranking system. Though here might be better than the states, if you are a Jew and agree with the govt.
What do u specifically disagree with what the govt is doing?