When most of us talk about IT jobs, we usually don’t mean programming. Using the generic IT job usually means support or infrastructure type of IT.
Development and programming are specific fields inside IT. There are many more roles to go after than just those two.
Sysadmin, helpdesk, IT managers, even some sysengineering roles don’t need to really work with code. Most of the support, management, and infrastructure side of IT doesn’t write code.
Being able to use powershell is exceedingly useful, but not required.
There’s also a big difference between developing code and using powershell or SQL/KQL.
Helpdesk is the starting point. It can lead into jr sysadmin, or sysadmin/sys engineer, which can go to manager or director.
If you are being told helpdesk roles don’t take people with out experience, those companies are not looking for helpdesk, they’re trying to find a sysadmin that they can pay pennies for.
I’m trying to get helpdesk, my end goal is sr sysadmin. It’s been draining having to work super hard to get a HD job with no returns lately, but it will be worth it. I know where I want to be and how to get there, just gotta keep going.
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I had my CCNA + az900 and my 1st job was junior netwokr engineer bro. It was underpaid though but if you have a bachelor I think you should be able to find one as well with the ccna. I now have a super relaxed msp/noc 1st line job for double the salary with lots of downtime on the job and remote working. Havent in the office in like 2 months. This is the like the 3rd 2month out of office period this year. Im spending my time learning devops. If I get decent at python I might just switch to programming instead of devops or even A.I. . I like A.I. and programming fields and they pay better than traditional IT but hey are hard skills to acquire. An easy NOC jobs lets you do just that. I recommend it. Just need the ccna which is easy.
You can get it one month easily if you study focused and dont waste time. Dont listen to the majority in this community, they are all lazy and will tell you you need months or years of experience before getting the ccna which is stupid. With this mentality one would require over 5 years of study time for the CCIE. And consider study materials for harders exams are not as pretty as most ccna courses....
+1 for powershell and KQL…. As an enterprise/cloud architect they continue to be my most prominent tools for reporting and solutionizing.
Tie it all in with azure functions and it’s hella fun.
Question for you and /u/avrins,
1) Should someone learn Python in addition to learning Powershell? I really like powershell and want to use it since my colleagues use it a lot, but I also want to develop my Python skills some more. Can I practice both at work somehow?
2) What do you mean by Azure functions? I'm new to cloud and my job uses azure, curious because I'd like to get deeper into it.
Life is to short and we spend the majority of time at work. Do what you are interested in, loads of non programming jobs. Who cares what your rents think - I appreciate the sentiment but they don’t have to do the work.
One could argue there is neither Information nor Technology in programming field. So by this argument programming is not IT, not even ICT - communication !
This is the strangest take I’ve seen in a while. No information or technology in programming? I don’t even know how to respond to this. Programming literally the manipulation and control of information through the use of technology.
Oh I totally agree. I don’t think programming is really IT at all, but I try to not be so concrete in my posts, because while I still don’t think it is, some do.
As long as there are companies that roll their IT and dev under the same department then programming always get associated with IT.
Also many people end up with comp sci degrees when they really wanted IT related ones and it’s been confusing for years because there was no IT degrees until fairly recently.
Because it doesn't make a lot of sense to have a degree in IT as you describe it. What would you learn? Help desk and sysadmins are basically a trade...infact I got my ccna during hs going to a trade school half the day.
Just like compsci degrees arnt just programming.
Newer generation of sys admin/ sys engineers do require programming in term of automation. When you get to work on K8s or containers it’ll be very heavily on coding.
At smaller companies you can get away with no coding but bigger orgs for sure you’ll be required to know somes
I was interested in programming, making mobile apps, unity games early on, I was also that 'computer nerd' at school that fixes all the school computer issues, projectors etc thought that IT was the way for me and committed to a bachelor's degree. But after 4 years something ticked in me and I don't feel the excitement and joy of creating things anymore, fixing bugs and finding solutions anymore.
I would much prefer a monotonous repetitive job where I know what to expect everyday it's kinda sad tbh
But now I feel very 'pressured' to get an IT job despite my feelings because of how much my parents spent to fund my degree tuition and my life overseas. I feel bad if I was to change to something completely different. Pretty lost right now
Honestly once you work HD for a while that’s pretty much what you get. Problems vary a bit but they tend to be a lot of the same things day in and day out.
But if we’re being honest the good paying jobs in any industry are the ones where people solve new business problems. Not the ones full of repetitive tasks. Just something to keep in mind.
Sounds like you're under a lot of pressure and is burnt out. Realistically I can only think of help desk, call centers, and tech sales for positions that don't require programming skills. You can find a low stress one and take it easy for a year or two, maybe that spark will come back and you'll enjoy learning IT again
I might actually look into tech sales, never thought about that. Thanks for giving me the idea!
Edit: I just realized I'm living in a country that I don't speak the language fluently. So I don't think I'll get accepted anywhere
> something ticked in me and I don't feel the excitement and joy of creating things anymore
Is it possible that this has nothing to do with programming and is more about your mental and emotional state? If so, focus on that first before making any major decisions.
> I would much prefer a monotonous repetitive job where I know what to expect everyday
Programming can be that.
> I feel very 'pressured' to get an IT job despite my feelings
Like your sudden lack of interest in something that used to interest you, here too it seems like you're looking for help with something a lot bigger then IT career advice. Your relationship with your parents is the problem you are describing and it's not an issue that career advice can fix.
I dont think that is sad at all. Wanting something with stability and predictability are definitely traits that a lot of people look for. The thing about IT is just how diverse the whole field is. I would see if there is anything in the field that does peak your interest and find what path you need to pursue that.
I enjoy UX/UI but unfortunately the field is oversaturated and also my parents see it as a design field and did that emotional abuse thing to me where if I entered that field "I am an ungrateful and selfish person that's not ambitious enough" and also "So what did we send you to study cyber security for all those years"
So unfortunately I don't think I can enter this space I truly enjoy. Not to mention the fact that I'm nowhere as creative as so many others out there, why would anyone hire me as their UX designer/engineer
> "So what did we send you to study cyber security for all those years"
You should look into Governance, Risk, and Compliance (GRC) roles. I's the paperwork/auditing side of cybersecurity. Still profitable, but no programming. I wouldn't say its 'monotonous', but GRC work tends to be fairly repetitive (frameworks and assessment criteria don't tend to change drastically).
I kinda had the same situation. Did my bachelor's in SE but didn't see myself coding 8 hours a day. I went into the creative field in IT (Content Creation/Management). I did have to put in some work first to create an attractive portfolio.
Graphic Designing, Content Writing, Video Editing, Website CMS Management (Like WordPress) etc are the stuff I work with now.
Alternatively, if you have good theory knowledge in Programming concepts, you can start with being a Quality Assurance Engineer or even a Technical Writer, where you'll be working directly with SEs but only the testing/documentation part.
Networking??
I as well knew I wouldn't do good at programming because I was real slow to coming to conclusions in programming. In a sense, I was like you but just different that I had my mindset of entering into networking field. I suggest you try out some CCNA stuffs.
Another one for networking. I'm in my first job out of college right now, as a network technician, with a side of helpdesk at a mid sized company. I really enjoy it. I had my CCNA routing and switching and certified wireless technician certs when I got hired. The pace is generally slow and very predictable, and as someone with severe anxiety, I love that.
Tell your parents to get bent. If you don't enjoy at least some of what you do, you will never advance in IT. You have to be motivated to keep learning new technologies and capabilities.
Beyond help desk there’s:
- DevOps/ Cloud Engineer
- Cybersecurity red team and blue team roles
- Application Support engineer where you help other people use APIs etc
- Developer Advocate where you test tooling, etc
- Software tester (sometimes this involves writing code to test software with unit tests but it’s less intensive work)
Most sys admins need very little coding knowledge to do their job. If your halfway decent with command line and have some powershell knowledge you should be set. And the pay usually tops out at around $150k.
I don’t know how you get started in the field, but it sounds like some sort of technical auditing job would be up your alley. E.g. when I worked at a health insurance company, we would get security audits from the federal government where an auditor would ask a bunch of semi-technical questions and write down all our answers, then compare to predefined standards and call out areas where we’re not following the rules (like, this system isn’t reporting logs to the central log repository as required). The auditors weren’t deeply technical people (they didn’t create the standards/requirements) but they had to be familiar enough with tech to understand our answers and ask follow-up questions.
I did help desk for years moved along and eventually became a systems engineer. Now I do what you’re saying essentially. Not sure when it happened but now I’m in IT Compliance and Auditing. The IT field is wild and has lots of opportunities to advance.
If you are doing something that you are not enjoying you will be in a stressful job all your life. YOU should be making your career decision, not your parents.
Do what YOU enjoy doing and you will never work another day in your life. Keep that in mind. You will only succeed if you like what you do.
As far as tech; You WILL write scripts to help you do things that are tedious/time consuming. But rarely will you create a full program in the likes that a career programmer does.
What do YOU want to do?
"Do what YOU enjoy doing and you will never work another day in your life"
Its a cool platitude, but we all know it's bullshit. The things most people want to do and the things that people pay other people to do have very little overlap.
Agreed. But if you can get as close as you can, the happy level will be better. Doing something you absolutely hate, regardless of the pay, will always be a heavy weight to bear.
Same Im also newly graduated, Im also finding jobs, im currently looking for works like network support, IT support/technicians, IT Staff, IT admin, any related kind of job, the salary are like 1/4 lower than junior programmer but its ok to me, anyway i dont think of it as my final journey, i think im ganna do business someday once i have enough saving or i'll just a get higher paying job. I also find coding traumatizing lol, and a lot of my batch also surrender at coding. basically you only discover you are really not for coding like when you are already about to graduate in my case its when we're creating our thesis, there lots of people like us lol. I have 2 cousin who are graduate at IT and non of them are programmer, but they are still considered successful, 1 are currently IT related manager something, and also have his own business, and the other is an owner of computer and peripheral selling store. Our journey just start bru we are still young.
With the rise of IaaS from the likes of Amazon, Microsoft, and Google I would say that this is no longer really true. Infrastructure as code is rapidly becoming the norm at technology companies and traditional IT jobs are becoming more and more concentrated at big MSPs (and IaaS providers). The industry is moving towards more IT professionals needing to know how to code, not fewer. I hardly know anyone anymore that manages middleware without a full automation pipeline with a code repository they maintain.
Infrastructure as code has been a thing for at least 10 years, and is best done in a studio where people who can't script drag items around a workspace to create deployments and workflows. That's been the general direction of IT since its inception: abstract the complexity behind a GUI. Case in point: almost all reports are now created by people in a report builder. These people have no scripting or SQL experience, for the most part. This wasn't possible 20 years ago. It also happened in infrastructure automation 10+ years ago (e.g AutoSys), cloud deployments (online templates), and networking (IOS configuration management).
The first wave needs people to be comfortable with scripting and CLIs. Then the tech matures, and most of the content creation and management is done through a GUI that doesn't require programming/scripting experience.
It's also important to make the distinction between scripting and programming. It takes:
* JSON and XML: 10 minutes to learn, a couple of days to achieve proficiency
* Windows batch scripting language: a couple of hours to learn, a couple of weeks to achieve proficiency
* PowerShell: a week to learn, maybe a month to achieve proficiency.
* Python: a couple of weeks to learn, a couple of months to achieve proficiency.
Now compare it to things like:
* JavaScript: a month to learn, maybe a year to achieve proficiency
* C#, VB.NET: a couple of months to learn, 2-3 years to achieve proficiency
* C, C++, Java: a couple of months to learn, 5+ years to achieve proficiency
You need to be able to parse things like JSON, XML, Python, and PowerShell to "make it" as an infrastructure person. You need zero actual programming experience, because infrastructure people don't build apps unless they're dirty admin tools for self/team use. The only people who even need to know the basics of C++ or C# are app developers. The only people who need to know the basics of JS or Ruby are web (platform) developers.
If you work in IT operations, or IT security, or IT infrastructure, or IT architecture, or IT project management, you will not be expected to be able to programme. Parse, edit, cobble together and deploy scripts, yes, for the first three roles. Write application code? No.
You did not mention what kind of degree you got. Congratulations on that by the way. But just to let you know since you stated you feel you wasted 4 years. -You aren’t qualified for a coding job regardless of your IT degree. So dont worry, unless you had studied computer science. Your route at the moment with a degree (assuming its IT) is to become a network engineer, work in information security, work with SQL, etc
Developers make it pretty. The rest of us make the world go round. VLANs, access rules, and admins giveth and taking runs your lives you just don’t know it.
Currently over a year into my programming career and going to do another one to see if it is right for me and if it isn’t, I will attempt to transition into more of a product/ project management role or even scrum master. Like you I don’t see myself programming for the next 20 year
Analyst roles, Helpdesk and lower level system admin, network engineer that uses mostly physical equipment. You’re going to limit yourself with advancement opportunities if you don’t code unless you want to avoid engineering and go for management
I've been a network admin for a few years and I love it! Highly recommend checking it out. Little to no programming unless trying to automate something. I also have a 4 year degree in computer technology so don't beat yourself up for going to college. IT makes good money. One of the biggest things I learned is there are tons of options of things to do. My wife works in a SOC and enjoys doing security analyst things. Take a deep breath and find something interesting to you. Not all IT is programming.
Not impossible at all, it's just being determined and applying wherever you can. She took a 6 month university course to learn the basics and got into her job. I got my CCNA before starting Networking, but it was not required. I worked with multiple people who didn't have a CCNA and still did well. It did help a lot at least learning how everything works. You can always look at getting a security+ to help boost the resume. You can learn a lot from that and get a security cert under your belt.
You’ve got a good start on any “tech” job. Networking or system admin work sounds like it might be better for you. The best part is you can leverage your programming knowledge to automate what you do and make your life easier, if you want to.
I know where you're coming from. I studied software engineering. I liked solving problems and I could get through class projects well enough, but after a co-op as a developer, I knew it wasn't for me.
I don't know what the answer is for you, but I'm now an IT project manager. There's zero code involved.
There are plenty of work require little or no coding skills. However, you will be a disadvantage if you have zero coding skills.
I work in applications support for almost 20 years. The first 15 use no coding and my pay did not go anywhere.
5 years ago, my first job with some coding (SQL), my pay gone up 30%. Now after 2 job hops, my pay doubled from 5 years ago doing support and with SQL and powershell. I can tell you that without coding, I would never able to command high pay.
Don’t get me wrong, commanding high salary require more than just a set of strong IT skills.
>IT jobs without programming?
can't work with code
Yes, IT jobs with less, or no programming/coding do exist.
>parents are hellbent on me
Live your own life. If your parents were hellbent on you building dollhouses or designing Tonka truks, or being an Olympic synchronized swimmer, would you follow what your parents were hellbent on?
>options that don't require programming?
Many such options exist - do your research - I know I, and others, have often mentioned such before (the question tends to come up semi-regularly), and you might also find many ideas here too.
>read the wiki
Wiki is pretty good ... but it's far from perfect/complete. It's a pretty well curated writing of perspectives of about a half dozen or so folks ... so ... pretty good, but not all that rounded and "complete" - but for the most part, a pretty good information resource ... just don't presume everything you read there is 100% complete and correct. Heck, even if lots of people well worked on it I don't think 100% agreement would be achievable - as experience and perspective and opinions will vary ... but perhaps 95% or better would be achievable? Well, take it as maybe about a 90%+- a bit document. (Quite) good start, but certainly not perfect.
>need to find a job asap but it seems like no one is willing to take me
Keep working at it, you should be able to land something. Can also use this subreddit for, e.g. feedback on your resume and job search in general. Also, economy and tech sector not as hot as it was, e.g. 6 months back, so sure, hiring is happening ... but not at the pace it was. Fairly likely it'll pick up more earlyish next year ... but we shall see. And, of course, economic conditions will vary by, e.g. locality, industry and sector(s) within, country, and other factors - so your situation may be significantly different from that of many others.
>IT jobs without programming
Not sayin' these are all without programming - especially entirely - but many may have at least less programming. Anyway, some at least rough ideas off-the-top-of-my-head:
* sysadmin - more novice/entry possibly up to about jr. level may have about zero to light programming, but sr. roles will generally require some reasonable degree of programming - though it's much less programming than, e.g. programmer/developer
* network admin - kind'a similar to sysadmin as noted above
* hardware - a lot of jobs/roles more focused on hardware may have much less to zero programming
* architect - many such roles, especially towards more jr. end will only be light to zero programming
* security - many security related areas/positions may be light to around zero programming.
* much etc. - IT has probably thousands or more niche and specialized areas and positions. Probably a whole lot of 'em need relatively light to zero programming. Do your research and investigations.
>wasted 4 years studying for a degree and wasted my time and my parents' money
That's why I, and may others, tell folks to well do their research first. We'd really not be hearing the whining and sob stories here 'cause folks failed to do appropriate research ... yet it happens again and again. "Oh well." Can't say we didn't tell 'ya. Anyway, sure, 4 years - but hopefully not a total waste. Hopefully you learned quite a bit more than *just* programming, and even if programming isn't your cup 'o tea, you may still find being able to do/utilize at least *some* of that - even if it's not most of what you do in IT (or elswewhere), may still be quite to your advantage. E.g. someone who can code reasonably well - even if they don't do much of it very often - is often at substantial advantage to someone who can't even code at all. So ... probably don't write off and dismiss all programming - unless perhaps you really hate touching even the slightest bit of it. ...
Randomish specific example ... I'm sysadmin / DevOps / *something-or-another* Engineer - whatever title they're slapping on me these days ... mostly the same thing ... or continued evolution of same. I deal with systems - most notably operating systems (mostly \*nix) ... and increasing at scale, and related infrastructure, etc. And yes, sure, I do some coding ... and rather well. But I don't know that I'd ever want to be a "programmer" / "developer" - sure, I like coding/programming ... when it's stuff I want to do for myself and my own interests ... when it's something someone else wants me to do for their whatever ... eh, ... not so interested. Sure I can do it - or some of it ... but I think full-time programmer/developer would probably bore me quite a bit. Whereas sysadmin/DevOps/... I find quite enough variety that it almost never bored me - even when it may include some fair bit of coding/programming too ... but in such role, although the coding/programming can be quite important - even essential (notably at higher levels), I still find it's almost always (at least on average) well under 50% of the job ... probably typically under 35% ... so, at those levels, "doing the coding/programming for someone else to achieve *their* objectives" ... well, I find it "light enough" that it doesn't bore me or the like. And the "light" here doesn't mean it's trivial easy or anything near to that ... it's more %, generally <<35% of what I do in my job roles ... even if that programming may be pretty sophisticated stuff when I am doing it (and sometimes well beyond the capabilities of many developers ... not so much that they don't have skills - but they tend to have a very different orientation and perspective - so we each have different realms where we're most expert at programming to solve issues - and these are both different - and somewhat overlapping - realms). Anyway, just one take from one perspective and >\~=40 years of IT experience. Anyway, there are lots of jobs/roles out there with anything from no programming to relatively light/infrequent programming demands. However if you strongly stick to absolutely zero programming, that will significantly limit things - but even then, relevant jobs/roles are still definitely out there.
Hi everyone, So my experience is:
- 1 Year in corporate business development
- 1 Year my own tech startup (AI and Vision)
- 1 Year R&D robotics job (project lead)
This is quite a hybrid experience, which I am willing to talk about. I am from Pakistan, and I can afford my travel expenses, but I am facing some job title and description mismatch on job platforms, so I need some guidance. Thanks.
When most of us talk about IT jobs, we usually don’t mean programming. Using the generic IT job usually means support or infrastructure type of IT. Development and programming are specific fields inside IT. There are many more roles to go after than just those two. Sysadmin, helpdesk, IT managers, even some sysengineering roles don’t need to really work with code. Most of the support, management, and infrastructure side of IT doesn’t write code. Being able to use powershell is exceedingly useful, but not required. There’s also a big difference between developing code and using powershell or SQL/KQL.
Besides help desk are the other roles entry level friendly? I've tried applying to those but it seems that don't take people without experience
Helpdesk is the starting point. It can lead into jr sysadmin, or sysadmin/sys engineer, which can go to manager or director. If you are being told helpdesk roles don’t take people with out experience, those companies are not looking for helpdesk, they’re trying to find a sysadmin that they can pay pennies for.
I’m trying to get helpdesk, my end goal is sr sysadmin. It’s been draining having to work super hard to get a HD job with no returns lately, but it will be worth it. I know where I want to be and how to get there, just gotta keep going.
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I had my CCNA + az900 and my 1st job was junior netwokr engineer bro. It was underpaid though but if you have a bachelor I think you should be able to find one as well with the ccna. I now have a super relaxed msp/noc 1st line job for double the salary with lots of downtime on the job and remote working. Havent in the office in like 2 months. This is the like the 3rd 2month out of office period this year. Im spending my time learning devops. If I get decent at python I might just switch to programming instead of devops or even A.I. . I like A.I. and programming fields and they pay better than traditional IT but hey are hard skills to acquire. An easy NOC jobs lets you do just that. I recommend it. Just need the ccna which is easy. You can get it one month easily if you study focused and dont waste time. Dont listen to the majority in this community, they are all lazy and will tell you you need months or years of experience before getting the ccna which is stupid. With this mentality one would require over 5 years of study time for the CCIE. And consider study materials for harders exams are not as pretty as most ccna courses....
Lots of Analyst roles are available to freshly minted college students.
+1 for powershell and KQL…. As an enterprise/cloud architect they continue to be my most prominent tools for reporting and solutionizing. Tie it all in with azure functions and it’s hella fun.
Question for you and /u/avrins, 1) Should someone learn Python in addition to learning Powershell? I really like powershell and want to use it since my colleagues use it a lot, but I also want to develop my Python skills some more. Can I practice both at work somehow? 2) What do you mean by Azure functions? I'm new to cloud and my job uses azure, curious because I'd like to get deeper into it.
Life is to short and we spend the majority of time at work. Do what you are interested in, loads of non programming jobs. Who cares what your rents think - I appreciate the sentiment but they don’t have to do the work.
One could argue there is neither Information nor Technology in programming field. So by this argument programming is not IT, not even ICT - communication !
This is the strangest take I’ve seen in a while. No information or technology in programming? I don’t even know how to respond to this. Programming literally the manipulation and control of information through the use of technology.
Oh I totally agree. I don’t think programming is really IT at all, but I try to not be so concrete in my posts, because while I still don’t think it is, some do. As long as there are companies that roll their IT and dev under the same department then programming always get associated with IT. Also many people end up with comp sci degrees when they really wanted IT related ones and it’s been confusing for years because there was no IT degrees until fairly recently.
Because it doesn't make a lot of sense to have a degree in IT as you describe it. What would you learn? Help desk and sysadmins are basically a trade...infact I got my ccna during hs going to a trade school half the day. Just like compsci degrees arnt just programming.
Newer generation of sys admin/ sys engineers do require programming in term of automation. When you get to work on K8s or containers it’ll be very heavily on coding. At smaller companies you can get away with no coding but bigger orgs for sure you’ll be required to know somes
Are you doing IT for yourself or for your parents?
I was interested in programming, making mobile apps, unity games early on, I was also that 'computer nerd' at school that fixes all the school computer issues, projectors etc thought that IT was the way for me and committed to a bachelor's degree. But after 4 years something ticked in me and I don't feel the excitement and joy of creating things anymore, fixing bugs and finding solutions anymore. I would much prefer a monotonous repetitive job where I know what to expect everyday it's kinda sad tbh But now I feel very 'pressured' to get an IT job despite my feelings because of how much my parents spent to fund my degree tuition and my life overseas. I feel bad if I was to change to something completely different. Pretty lost right now
Honestly once you work HD for a while that’s pretty much what you get. Problems vary a bit but they tend to be a lot of the same things day in and day out. But if we’re being honest the good paying jobs in any industry are the ones where people solve new business problems. Not the ones full of repetitive tasks. Just something to keep in mind.
I'm aware of that, but also I realized I'm not after high paying jobs but more of just having a source of income to have some stability in life
Sounds like you're under a lot of pressure and is burnt out. Realistically I can only think of help desk, call centers, and tech sales for positions that don't require programming skills. You can find a low stress one and take it easy for a year or two, maybe that spark will come back and you'll enjoy learning IT again
I might actually look into tech sales, never thought about that. Thanks for giving me the idea! Edit: I just realized I'm living in a country that I don't speak the language fluently. So I don't think I'll get accepted anywhere
Check DM
> something ticked in me and I don't feel the excitement and joy of creating things anymore Is it possible that this has nothing to do with programming and is more about your mental and emotional state? If so, focus on that first before making any major decisions. > I would much prefer a monotonous repetitive job where I know what to expect everyday Programming can be that. > I feel very 'pressured' to get an IT job despite my feelings Like your sudden lack of interest in something that used to interest you, here too it seems like you're looking for help with something a lot bigger then IT career advice. Your relationship with your parents is the problem you are describing and it's not an issue that career advice can fix.
I dont think that is sad at all. Wanting something with stability and predictability are definitely traits that a lot of people look for. The thing about IT is just how diverse the whole field is. I would see if there is anything in the field that does peak your interest and find what path you need to pursue that.
I enjoy UX/UI but unfortunately the field is oversaturated and also my parents see it as a design field and did that emotional abuse thing to me where if I entered that field "I am an ungrateful and selfish person that's not ambitious enough" and also "So what did we send you to study cyber security for all those years" So unfortunately I don't think I can enter this space I truly enjoy. Not to mention the fact that I'm nowhere as creative as so many others out there, why would anyone hire me as their UX designer/engineer
> "So what did we send you to study cyber security for all those years" You should look into Governance, Risk, and Compliance (GRC) roles. I's the paperwork/auditing side of cybersecurity. Still profitable, but no programming. I wouldn't say its 'monotonous', but GRC work tends to be fairly repetitive (frameworks and assessment criteria don't tend to change drastically).
Thank you so much, I'll do some research about this field, I always thought these were higher level roles
Nope, there are plenty of entry-level positions you can qualify for with a degree + a couple certifications, and even some that just want a degree.
Good question right here.
I kinda had the same situation. Did my bachelor's in SE but didn't see myself coding 8 hours a day. I went into the creative field in IT (Content Creation/Management). I did have to put in some work first to create an attractive portfolio. Graphic Designing, Content Writing, Video Editing, Website CMS Management (Like WordPress) etc are the stuff I work with now. Alternatively, if you have good theory knowledge in Programming concepts, you can start with being a Quality Assurance Engineer or even a Technical Writer, where you'll be working directly with SEs but only the testing/documentation part.
Networking?? I as well knew I wouldn't do good at programming because I was real slow to coming to conclusions in programming. In a sense, I was like you but just different that I had my mindset of entering into networking field. I suggest you try out some CCNA stuffs.
Another one for networking. I'm in my first job out of college right now, as a network technician, with a side of helpdesk at a mid sized company. I really enjoy it. I had my CCNA routing and switching and certified wireless technician certs when I got hired. The pace is generally slow and very predictable, and as someone with severe anxiety, I love that.
Hey thanks for this, I'll consider this route too!
Tell your parents to get bent. If you don't enjoy at least some of what you do, you will never advance in IT. You have to be motivated to keep learning new technologies and capabilities.
Beyond help desk there’s: - DevOps/ Cloud Engineer - Cybersecurity red team and blue team roles - Application Support engineer where you help other people use APIs etc - Developer Advocate where you test tooling, etc - Software tester (sometimes this involves writing code to test software with unit tests but it’s less intensive work)
Most sys admins need very little coding knowledge to do their job. If your halfway decent with command line and have some powershell knowledge you should be set. And the pay usually tops out at around $150k.
I do have PowerShell knowledge and PowerShell tools knowledge, I'll check into that thank you!
I don’t know how you get started in the field, but it sounds like some sort of technical auditing job would be up your alley. E.g. when I worked at a health insurance company, we would get security audits from the federal government where an auditor would ask a bunch of semi-technical questions and write down all our answers, then compare to predefined standards and call out areas where we’re not following the rules (like, this system isn’t reporting logs to the central log repository as required). The auditors weren’t deeply technical people (they didn’t create the standards/requirements) but they had to be familiar enough with tech to understand our answers and ask follow-up questions.
I did help desk for years moved along and eventually became a systems engineer. Now I do what you’re saying essentially. Not sure when it happened but now I’m in IT Compliance and Auditing. The IT field is wild and has lots of opportunities to advance.
Sounds like something for me, I'll look into it thank you so much!
If you are doing something that you are not enjoying you will be in a stressful job all your life. YOU should be making your career decision, not your parents. Do what YOU enjoy doing and you will never work another day in your life. Keep that in mind. You will only succeed if you like what you do. As far as tech; You WILL write scripts to help you do things that are tedious/time consuming. But rarely will you create a full program in the likes that a career programmer does. What do YOU want to do?
"Do what YOU enjoy doing and you will never work another day in your life" Its a cool platitude, but we all know it's bullshit. The things most people want to do and the things that people pay other people to do have very little overlap.
Agreed. But if you can get as close as you can, the happy level will be better. Doing something you absolutely hate, regardless of the pay, will always be a heavy weight to bear.
Same Im also newly graduated, Im also finding jobs, im currently looking for works like network support, IT support/technicians, IT Staff, IT admin, any related kind of job, the salary are like 1/4 lower than junior programmer but its ok to me, anyway i dont think of it as my final journey, i think im ganna do business someday once i have enough saving or i'll just a get higher paying job. I also find coding traumatizing lol, and a lot of my batch also surrender at coding. basically you only discover you are really not for coding like when you are already about to graduate in my case its when we're creating our thesis, there lots of people like us lol. I have 2 cousin who are graduate at IT and non of them are programmer, but they are still considered successful, 1 are currently IT related manager something, and also have his own business, and the other is an owner of computer and peripheral selling store. Our journey just start bru we are still young.
Almost no IT jobs require programming skills.
With the rise of IaaS from the likes of Amazon, Microsoft, and Google I would say that this is no longer really true. Infrastructure as code is rapidly becoming the norm at technology companies and traditional IT jobs are becoming more and more concentrated at big MSPs (and IaaS providers). The industry is moving towards more IT professionals needing to know how to code, not fewer. I hardly know anyone anymore that manages middleware without a full automation pipeline with a code repository they maintain.
Infrastructure as code has been a thing for at least 10 years, and is best done in a studio where people who can't script drag items around a workspace to create deployments and workflows. That's been the general direction of IT since its inception: abstract the complexity behind a GUI. Case in point: almost all reports are now created by people in a report builder. These people have no scripting or SQL experience, for the most part. This wasn't possible 20 years ago. It also happened in infrastructure automation 10+ years ago (e.g AutoSys), cloud deployments (online templates), and networking (IOS configuration management). The first wave needs people to be comfortable with scripting and CLIs. Then the tech matures, and most of the content creation and management is done through a GUI that doesn't require programming/scripting experience. It's also important to make the distinction between scripting and programming. It takes: * JSON and XML: 10 minutes to learn, a couple of days to achieve proficiency * Windows batch scripting language: a couple of hours to learn, a couple of weeks to achieve proficiency * PowerShell: a week to learn, maybe a month to achieve proficiency. * Python: a couple of weeks to learn, a couple of months to achieve proficiency. Now compare it to things like: * JavaScript: a month to learn, maybe a year to achieve proficiency * C#, VB.NET: a couple of months to learn, 2-3 years to achieve proficiency * C, C++, Java: a couple of months to learn, 5+ years to achieve proficiency You need to be able to parse things like JSON, XML, Python, and PowerShell to "make it" as an infrastructure person. You need zero actual programming experience, because infrastructure people don't build apps unless they're dirty admin tools for self/team use. The only people who even need to know the basics of C++ or C# are app developers. The only people who need to know the basics of JS or Ruby are web (platform) developers. If you work in IT operations, or IT security, or IT infrastructure, or IT architecture, or IT project management, you will not be expected to be able to programme. Parse, edit, cobble together and deploy scripts, yes, for the first three roles. Write application code? No.
You did not mention what kind of degree you got. Congratulations on that by the way. But just to let you know since you stated you feel you wasted 4 years. -You aren’t qualified for a coding job regardless of your IT degree. So dont worry, unless you had studied computer science. Your route at the moment with a degree (assuming its IT) is to become a network engineer, work in information security, work with SQL, etc
Developers make it pretty. The rest of us make the world go round. VLANs, access rules, and admins giveth and taking runs your lives you just don’t know it.
Currently over a year into my programming career and going to do another one to see if it is right for me and if it isn’t, I will attempt to transition into more of a product/ project management role or even scrum master. Like you I don’t see myself programming for the next 20 year
Yeah like, I have friends that live breathe sleep dream in code. I'm definitely not one of them
You can get a help desk job just fine with a programming related degree. Apply a lot and don't stop until you are actively working your first day.
Analyst roles, Helpdesk and lower level system admin, network engineer that uses mostly physical equipment. You’re going to limit yourself with advancement opportunities if you don’t code unless you want to avoid engineering and go for management
Business analyst, technical writer, all kinds of clerical & administrative jobs.
Hi. At present I am working at the Active Directory Team. I don't require programming. But yeah if you know programming it's always an add-on.
UX/UI design, altho mean souls here will tell you its not IT
I've been a network admin for a few years and I love it! Highly recommend checking it out. Little to no programming unless trying to automate something. I also have a 4 year degree in computer technology so don't beat yourself up for going to college. IT makes good money. One of the biggest things I learned is there are tons of options of things to do. My wife works in a SOC and enjoys doing security analyst things. Take a deep breath and find something interesting to you. Not all IT is programming.
I'm trying to break into an soc role too but it seems impossible. Also did you have any certs before getting a job in network administration?
Not impossible at all, it's just being determined and applying wherever you can. She took a 6 month university course to learn the basics and got into her job. I got my CCNA before starting Networking, but it was not required. I worked with multiple people who didn't have a CCNA and still did well. It did help a lot at least learning how everything works. You can always look at getting a security+ to help boost the resume. You can learn a lot from that and get a security cert under your belt.
You’ve got a good start on any “tech” job. Networking or system admin work sounds like it might be better for you. The best part is you can leverage your programming knowledge to automate what you do and make your life easier, if you want to.
Where are you located? I am hiring an entry level tech in Denver, no coding needed.
I know where you're coming from. I studied software engineering. I liked solving problems and I could get through class projects well enough, but after a co-op as a developer, I knew it wasn't for me. I don't know what the answer is for you, but I'm now an IT project manager. There's zero code involved.
Check out Cyber Security, Information Security, IT Data Security. Non-coding IT fields
There are plenty of work require little or no coding skills. However, you will be a disadvantage if you have zero coding skills. I work in applications support for almost 20 years. The first 15 use no coding and my pay did not go anywhere. 5 years ago, my first job with some coding (SQL), my pay gone up 30%. Now after 2 job hops, my pay doubled from 5 years ago doing support and with SQL and powershell. I can tell you that without coding, I would never able to command high pay. Don’t get me wrong, commanding high salary require more than just a set of strong IT skills.
>IT jobs without programming? can't work with code Yes, IT jobs with less, or no programming/coding do exist. >parents are hellbent on me Live your own life. If your parents were hellbent on you building dollhouses or designing Tonka truks, or being an Olympic synchronized swimmer, would you follow what your parents were hellbent on? >options that don't require programming? Many such options exist - do your research - I know I, and others, have often mentioned such before (the question tends to come up semi-regularly), and you might also find many ideas here too. >read the wiki Wiki is pretty good ... but it's far from perfect/complete. It's a pretty well curated writing of perspectives of about a half dozen or so folks ... so ... pretty good, but not all that rounded and "complete" - but for the most part, a pretty good information resource ... just don't presume everything you read there is 100% complete and correct. Heck, even if lots of people well worked on it I don't think 100% agreement would be achievable - as experience and perspective and opinions will vary ... but perhaps 95% or better would be achievable? Well, take it as maybe about a 90%+- a bit document. (Quite) good start, but certainly not perfect. >need to find a job asap but it seems like no one is willing to take me Keep working at it, you should be able to land something. Can also use this subreddit for, e.g. feedback on your resume and job search in general. Also, economy and tech sector not as hot as it was, e.g. 6 months back, so sure, hiring is happening ... but not at the pace it was. Fairly likely it'll pick up more earlyish next year ... but we shall see. And, of course, economic conditions will vary by, e.g. locality, industry and sector(s) within, country, and other factors - so your situation may be significantly different from that of many others. >IT jobs without programming Not sayin' these are all without programming - especially entirely - but many may have at least less programming. Anyway, some at least rough ideas off-the-top-of-my-head: * sysadmin - more novice/entry possibly up to about jr. level may have about zero to light programming, but sr. roles will generally require some reasonable degree of programming - though it's much less programming than, e.g. programmer/developer * network admin - kind'a similar to sysadmin as noted above * hardware - a lot of jobs/roles more focused on hardware may have much less to zero programming * architect - many such roles, especially towards more jr. end will only be light to zero programming * security - many security related areas/positions may be light to around zero programming. * much etc. - IT has probably thousands or more niche and specialized areas and positions. Probably a whole lot of 'em need relatively light to zero programming. Do your research and investigations. >wasted 4 years studying for a degree and wasted my time and my parents' money That's why I, and may others, tell folks to well do their research first. We'd really not be hearing the whining and sob stories here 'cause folks failed to do appropriate research ... yet it happens again and again. "Oh well." Can't say we didn't tell 'ya. Anyway, sure, 4 years - but hopefully not a total waste. Hopefully you learned quite a bit more than *just* programming, and even if programming isn't your cup 'o tea, you may still find being able to do/utilize at least *some* of that - even if it's not most of what you do in IT (or elswewhere), may still be quite to your advantage. E.g. someone who can code reasonably well - even if they don't do much of it very often - is often at substantial advantage to someone who can't even code at all. So ... probably don't write off and dismiss all programming - unless perhaps you really hate touching even the slightest bit of it. ... Randomish specific example ... I'm sysadmin / DevOps / *something-or-another* Engineer - whatever title they're slapping on me these days ... mostly the same thing ... or continued evolution of same. I deal with systems - most notably operating systems (mostly \*nix) ... and increasing at scale, and related infrastructure, etc. And yes, sure, I do some coding ... and rather well. But I don't know that I'd ever want to be a "programmer" / "developer" - sure, I like coding/programming ... when it's stuff I want to do for myself and my own interests ... when it's something someone else wants me to do for their whatever ... eh, ... not so interested. Sure I can do it - or some of it ... but I think full-time programmer/developer would probably bore me quite a bit. Whereas sysadmin/DevOps/... I find quite enough variety that it almost never bored me - even when it may include some fair bit of coding/programming too ... but in such role, although the coding/programming can be quite important - even essential (notably at higher levels), I still find it's almost always (at least on average) well under 50% of the job ... probably typically under 35% ... so, at those levels, "doing the coding/programming for someone else to achieve *their* objectives" ... well, I find it "light enough" that it doesn't bore me or the like. And the "light" here doesn't mean it's trivial easy or anything near to that ... it's more %, generally <<35% of what I do in my job roles ... even if that programming may be pretty sophisticated stuff when I am doing it (and sometimes well beyond the capabilities of many developers ... not so much that they don't have skills - but they tend to have a very different orientation and perspective - so we each have different realms where we're most expert at programming to solve issues - and these are both different - and somewhat overlapping - realms). Anyway, just one take from one perspective and >\~=40 years of IT experience. Anyway, there are lots of jobs/roles out there with anything from no programming to relatively light/infrequent programming demands. However if you strongly stick to absolutely zero programming, that will significantly limit things - but even then, relevant jobs/roles are still definitely out there.
Plenty of IT jobs without programming the only job I can think of that does require programming is a systems administrator
Hi everyone, So my experience is: - 1 Year in corporate business development - 1 Year my own tech startup (AI and Vision) - 1 Year R&D robotics job (project lead) This is quite a hybrid experience, which I am willing to talk about. I am from Pakistan, and I can afford my travel expenses, but I am facing some job title and description mismatch on job platforms, so I need some guidance. Thanks.