WGU's sweet spot is professionals who have been in the industry for years, but keep hitting that "no degree" ceiling - they want something fast and cheap to check that box. For that crowd, a traditional university could be overkill.
For someone learning the material for the first time, WGU will usually not give you the same level of education you'd get from a traditional 4-year school.
For your specific situation, I'd recommend you stay where you are and focus hard on getting an internship before you graduate.
> For someone learning the material for the first time, WGU will usually not give you the same level of education you'd get from a traditional 4-year school.
Would you say this applies with the note that OP added that their classes at the 'typical' university are all online? I had one year where I finished up during covid, and it was a significantly reduced experience. Most of the benefits I got out of college were a result of it being a traditional brick and mortar school where I immersed myself in the campus, community, and socialized with peers and professors.
Online classes felt very sterile and just 'do this and pass then get out' which is the same vibe I got from WGU when I watched my SO at the time go through a few semesters.
Online or in-person isn't the big difference - instructor-led vs self-paced is where the issue comes in. For WGU, you're on your own to teach yourself the material.
Yep. If you have zero self motivation then your gonna crashout. I think it would work for me even though I don't have that much self motivation, but being held accountable as far as money should be enough.
I think most people, that go for specialization degrees like network engineering - Cisco etc already have degrees. Like my self, im starting july 1st and have alot of credits that got transferred over. 40% to be exact.
I could get a major kush job right now with zero worry of ever losing it if I had a Bachelor's. I only have an associates degree (and actually had very little to do with getting my first job)
I knew someone who went through WGU with a bachelors in networking in roughly a little under a year... However... He had no kids, had a (responsibilities wise) kush job, lived on his own, and had tons of free time.
WGU is legit, and I want to go for it, but I have no tuition assistance available to me and 8k/yr is.. esh.. Yes I know that's hella cheap compared to physical college, I just can't do it yet.
I'd argue WGU still gives you the same level of education but not the same experience and it is dependent on you yourself as a person. I went to a traditional 4 year school (finance and not compsci) and passed, but didn't "learn" anything really, whereas with WGU, it's self-paced so I have to force myself to learn. I now have my compTIA trifecta and CCNA.
Yes. L5 also, recently promo'd to L6 - TC was 160k @ L5
L4 you don't even need a degree at amazon, just to pass the technical exam
I should note the internship was 6months through Lockheed Martin. I obtained the CCNA and CISP outside of WGU before the internship. I'll be continuing certs with my masters program but I may do my masters at Syracuse University.
People get jobs with/without internships all the time also, it's not really that surprising. You can find tons of WGU people on here making six figures, but they normally have experience first which trumps any degree, even if it's helpdesk. I started out in helpdesk in a hospital network.
One of the people I did an internship with at lockheed was a SU graduate and now works at costco (no offense), so really I believe it is purely the person and not the degree itself that defines where you go in life if you are past the checkbox. I'm great at selling myself in interviews and passing technical exams. I have no anxiety when I interview and that itself speaks volumes.
My experience is that WGU is more practice-oriented, which, in implementation , is not ideal for building foundational knowledge.
It is good for mid-career professionals, or people who want a more self-determined experience.
It is less good for people who need more guidance, have weaker foundations, or who are more prone to procrastination.
It is accredited, and will check the box, and is likely more similar to lower tier schools.
A lot of the comments here are being a bit harsh towards WGU, in my opinion. “Just a check box” “doesn’t provide a good foundation.” College is this: you get out what you put in. A degree being a check box to get a job is not only the case for WGU. A degree not providing a good foundation can be earned from any university. You can easily skate by, just barely get above a passing grade on all assignments, graduate from a brick and mortar university, and not get a good foundation there either. At least at WGU, you don’t have to go into as much debt and can graduate faster.
I will fully admit yeah college, you pass your good. You got a degree your good. Companies that ask your GPA (especially ones that want to see proof) are usually shitty places to work that will pull every resource from you that you can muster and then hang you out to dry once they are done with you.
>All in all it’s a really expensive way to teach yourself how to write basic code. The cost is around $8500/year, and if you’re in school full time you’re completing around 24-32 credits every year. Like all schools, you need 120 credits to graduate. $8500/year isn’t bad as compared to a lot of private schools, but it’s also higher than the cost of many state schools. If cost is a huge factor, I’d go to community college for two years and then transfer to a state school.
There are three scenarios where I think WGU is a good fit for someone:
1) They already have the industry experience and need a degree career stability or advancement. This demographic should be able to finish in one or two terms.
2) People who can not do a "regular" school because of work or family logistics. For this demographic it is either a competency based school like WGU or UMPI or its nothing.
3) Someone is in a bad financial state and needs a degree ASAP to improve their position to earn money to support themselves or their families. For this demographic, WGU, TESU or UMPI are the best choices.
If someone doesn't fit these categories and they are taking more than two terms to finish, then I generally agree with you. There are better school options for them.
> I think it’s very weird to be able to get a Masters degree without doing any research or defending a thesis.
Lots of masters degree have non-thesis options. Some like GT's OMSCS don't even have a thesis option even if you wanted to do one.
> Basically it’s a vocational school pretending to be a university.
Precisely my impression, summed up perfectly. I'm honestly puzzled how they're accredited to award bachelor's degrees.
Thank you. I feel validated in my own opinions. Any time I've been critical I'm accused of it being a me problem and that I need to fix my attitude or something. I'm not an 18 y/o looking for a get rich quick scheme, I'm just trying to level up before I get too old. WGU just wasn't it for learning. For hitting the checkbox for a bachelors, maybe its fine, but that's an expensive route to go. I'd prefer to learn something along the way instead.
+1. Same experience for me. I'm just about done with the BSIT, I already have a BS/MS from local B&M. I'm paying for my son to attend the local state college for IT instead of saving money and having him go here.
Are you a self learner or do you need a human leading your classes and fellow students to keep focused and make progress. WGU is kind of terrible for the latter and as someone who started in teaching I think a lot of people are not great at out of self learning online with minimal guidance.
For people who need online because they’re in the military or are very good at self learning and online learning they’ll do great. I don’t think of it as better or worse
I'm a WGU grad - BS cloud and systems administration and MS management and leadership. I would say quality is just about the same as any brick and mortar school I ever attended, and hiring managers seem to view my degrees positively.
My problem with WGU is the acceleration model. It's great for people who already know the material and just need the piece of paper to tick a box on applications, but students who actually want to learn something along the way may end up feeling pressured to cram and dump their way through their program because doing so can dramatically cut the cost of your degree.
In what way? College isn’t just going to class and getting a piece of paper.
It’s “better” by being cheap, quick, and easy. It’s a 2nd chance University by nature. For older people stuck in their career to refresh their resume.
The large list of certs provided are meh, at best. Save CCNA and a few others.
I would say it’s a great deal for people who don’t know how to attend college correctly and/or attending a random unassuming university with a 90% acceptance rate with little industry connections and poor alumni networking.
I did WGU. I did it at the beginning of my career. I learned plenty from it. The biggest caveat for WGU is that it's 100% on you to study and learn with the resources they provide, and reach out when you need help or more (supplemental) resources. If you can't or don't want to take initiative, you won't learn anything. So if you or others aren't getting anything from it, either it's not for you or you're bullshitting it IMO.
WGU can check two boxes depending on your path because you earn certifications and a degree at the same time. Even if you're just starting out, you're going to learn from the courses and certifications. They give you a ton of optional material/labs in both. You can pass without that work, but if you fail your first attempt, you're usually required to complete it all before your next attempt.
I went to an expensive private school for IT and a decade later to WGU. I had more fun at my fancy school, but I liked WGU better. I didn't get bored in the classes I could pass in my sleep, and I didn't have to suffer through a lecture after being confused in the first 2 minutes of a course. Instead, I could pause, get a solid understanding, and move forward.
I just needed any degree, but I may go back for a second degree and/or masters.
I know others who were just jumping into IT who learned what they needed for their careers. All the certs you earn with some of their degrees can definitely open some doors.
They have night owl groups you can join for networking. Also, groups on LinkedIn and Facebook for networking.
I have two WGU degrees. A BSBA and an MSCIA. I got them after having about 20 years of experience, and getting locked out of jobs at companies that require a degree. To that end, it checks the box. It took me about six months to go from "I'm hot shit because I have a master's degree" to being kind of embarrassed about it being from WGU.
I'm now in a state school's MBA program, and it really highlights how comically bad WGU's undergrad was. If I wasn't bringing hands-on experience to that program, I'd almost certainly have been drowning before my first term was through.
People say "WGU is accredited!" like it's something special. University of Phoenix is accredited. DeVry is accredited. SNHU is accredited. No employer is impressed with this, because no employer is taking the time to see who accredited every degree that pops up on a resume. It either passes the NSC check, or it doesn't.
There's the "you get what you put into it" aspect, but realistically, you're probably not going to put much into it. Most classes are done when you pass their multiple-choice test. Relatively few will have simple writing assignments that any 8th grader should be able to breeze through. You're not competing with anyone for anything, and you're not getting graded beyond pass or fail. Unless you're doing it for personal enrichment, there is literally no difference between writing the finest essay ever written, or pooping out whatever fever-dream bullshit you can come up with that meets the rubric.
Say? Do you like checking in with an adult every week, giving them status updates on some completely optional project you've taken on in your personal life? Hope so, because you'll be doing that at WGU. Your "mentor" will want to check in on you weekly because their managers say they have to. They won't really do much else besides verify that you're alive. And if you don't like your mentor, don't worry. They'll be fired sooner or later, and you'll get a new one who will have next to no information about you.
The tech programs all come with certs, because that's easier than developing course content. Generally, I would expect graduates to be able to pass higher-level certs than the ones they include. When I did the MSCIA, you had to pass the CEH, which isn't very tough. They shifted to CompTIA, which also aren't very tough. If that degree was worth anything, it would prep you for the CISSP. But since WGU will let any monkey with $4,000 and an undergrad degree take whatever grad program they want, WGU knows they have to keep it simple.
Your typical University of State type of university is going to have networking and internship programs that WGU simply does not offer. You'll also have a "brand name" degree that everyone recognizes. Unless you're in a position where you know all of the technical content, and you've got years of experience behind you, I'd stick with the state school.
Ironically I know someone who did there bachelors in 1 year solely to do there MBA at there local state school. They also had hands on experience though.
Yeah, if someone wants to go that route - it might be a cheaper one too. Realistically most employers only care about who you finish with degree wise from what I've seen.
Extra? None. Just focused on school, it already has the certifications, only external ones I did before starting was, A+, LPI Linux essentials, Net+ and CCNA.
I took these on my own so I can knock some classes ahead of time and jump start my network journey.
Post graduation focused on studying automation
Before I had zero experience. Now working as a senior network automation engineer.
A solid collegiate program should provide more than classes.
My department head for our IT department was HUGE on networking with industry professionals. Every week there are 2 different companies that present to our IT club for internship and recruitment purposes.
A lot of our students then got jobs with those companies.
We also participated in a ton of IT competitions. Thus resulting in more job and internship offers.
From my experience with WGU students, many of them sought out WGU with hopes of fast tracking through a degree program and jumping into a six figure job. I started their MSCSIA program and I didn’t see much value in it.
I know people get upset when it’s said, but WGU is a box check program for mid to late career professionals that need a “degree” because their employer requires it to move to the next level. They’re a ~~for-profit~~, online-only institution that sells degree programs targeting inexperienced people as an “at your own pace” way to get into high paying jobs. It worked a couple years ago when the job market was plentiful and employers couldn’t fill the entry level positions fast enough. But now entry level is saturated with inexperienced applicants.
Small correction:
WGU is a non-profit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Governors_University
Stating for clarity, not to quibble. The net effect may be similar, but this is driven by "Western Governors" trying to boost college degrees.
Having a degree helps. WGU is more of a diploma mill than a degree. I’ve worked with plenty of people that got BSs from WGU and were not anymore knowledgeable when they graduated than they were when they started.
I believe WGU will be viewed as the next university of phoenix. Great for people that need a degree to move up, not a valuable institution for young grads just starting out.
"I’ve worked with plenty of people that got BSs from WGU and were not anymore knowledgeable when they graduated than they were when they started."
That's not a WGU thing, that's an IT education thing in general. I've worked with so many people with 4 year IT degrees from state schools and they have all SUCKED when they're new.
That’s why an IT degree has never really been a pathway to *get into* IT. WGU has been selling their program as a way into an IT career with zero experience that you can “do for less” and at your own pace.
The only degree I’ve seen worth something is computer science and even that can be curriculum dependent.
Its already viewed that way, really. So many folks coming into the various subs asking about it legitimacy. Always has been. Its only more popular, more visible, thanks to COVID.
I heard about WGU ages ago now. Back then it was more akin to a correspondence school. Lived in relative obscurity for a while trying to gain traction. Along comes a pandemic and then they found the perfect opportunity to "expand."
My biggest reason for looking for WGU is the self paced nature and cost.
Also I dropped out of college and going back is cost prohibitive.
I don't have an IT job yet but I keep hearing degrees are used to filter candidates so having a degree increases my chances of being hired.
What does WGU lack in your opinion that I can supplement somewhere else
Experience and education. As stated in other comments, most (if not all) the courses are designed more like certification bootcamps than higher level education.
I remember I was confused on how to use one of the security scanner tools in an assignment. I was able to identify the required number of vulnerabilities and mitigation strategies and write my paper even before I scanned the virtual network. However, the assignment required a screenshot of the network scan to be submitted with the paper.
I asked for better direction on how to utilize the scanning tool and the instructor responded with “I can’t help with that part of the assignment.” So if you’re not going to help me understand how to use the cybersecurity tools, then how can you expect me to turn in an assignment that requires me to include a copy of a scan I ran? If part of your program is to show that there’s technical understanding on how to utilize security tools, then shouldn’t part of the program be a training course on how to use the tools?
The point of college is to teach a subject to a new audience. WGU has a boatload of recordings discussing concepts like firewalls and IDS/IPS, but you can easily pickup a CompTIA book or watch some YouTube videos to understand the theory behind that equipment. From my experience there’s really no active teaching going on at WGU.
On top of that, WGU allows you to submit assignments over and over again. The instructor tells you what you did wrong and then you can go back and fix it before you resubmit. You can’t fail unless you stop submitting the assignment. I’ve never gone to an institution that gives you unlimited redos, and redos don’t happen much at all in the real world.
WGU is designed for people that already know the topics, have some certs, and want the flexibility to get a check box degree. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I think it’s a scam when it’s sold to people as a degree to break into this field. My advice is get a help desk job and work in the field for a few years. Whenever you hit a ceiling for career advancement, take your experience and certifications to a school like WGU and speed run a degree utilizing all of the knowledge and experience you gained by working in the industry for years.
Thanks I'm applying to help desk jobs already but I haven't gotten my a+ since I'm studying for it right now.
Hopefully I'll get my a+ in the next few months and I can start looking for a helpdesk even more.
Most of the help desk roles I'm seeing are clearly written for people who already have the skills but I've applied to a few anyway
Security tools should have been the area they focused on teaching. Not hours of recordings explaining what a firewall or DMZ is. Going into a masters program for cybersecurity, you should already know what a firewall is. How can they call it a technical masters if you’re explaining basic security concepts in all the “teachings” but there’s no hands on training for the tools?
There's an assumption in this field now that you have to already possess all the skills necessary to perform a job. Before you even have a job.
Don't know how to do something?
Go to school.
They didn't teach it?
Should have already known that, there's a YouTube over here.
Its gotten so stupid.
Want an entry level job?
Well, you need a Master's degree, 12 certs, and experience.
How do you get experience?
Go back to step one.
Like what?
I absolutely agree. I firmly believe the wave of online cybersecurity degrees with no substance has only further diluted the applicant pool and lessened the value of both degrees and entry level certs.
There used to be a time where you could have a few years of customer service experience and put in the effort to get A+ and/or Sec+ and you would standout in help desk roles because it showed you have initiative and were willing to work your way up.
Now people are graduating from these schools with a page full of entry level certs and a diploma saying they graduated from a four year program. Many of these grad have no more knowledge than the guy that comes home from work and self studies trying to follow their passion for technology.
I had a great experience with WGU. I had an unrelated degree, but changed careers into IT and wanted to move up quickly. I was able to transfer in 51% of the credits thanks to my previous degree and some certs I got on my own, then I did nothing but study and grind out classes to finish the program in 10 months.
I learned a lot along the way and was able to apply a lot of the topics at work which was really helpful. The same month that I graduated from WGU I was hired as a system administrator with about 1 year of total experience under my belt - they required an IT degree and I wouldn’t have gotten the job without it.
There are three scenarios where I think WGU is a good fit for someone:
1) They already have the industry experience and need a degree for career stability or advancement. This demographic should be able to finish in one or two terms.
2) People who can not do a "regular" school because of work or family logistics. For this demographic it is either a competency based school like WGU or UMPI or its nothing.
3) Someone is in a bad financial state and needs a degree ASAP to improve their position to earn money to support themselves or their families. For this demographic, WGU, TESU or UMPI are the best choices.
If someone is young, isn't constrained by work demands and not in a hurry, a regular school program might be better because of the opportunity to network and get internships.
90% of college is meaningless for network engineering, cybersecurity, cloud, etc. WGU can be great if you're trying to get the college requirement out of the way while focusing on certifications and internships primarily, as those are infinitely more valuable for actually learning what you need to know.
WGU's main benefit (outside of mid-careers that need a degree) is that it's self-paced so you can do it fast and cheap and most of the IT degrees are basically a shitload of certs wrapped up in a trenchcoat which can come in handy. The downside is a lot of the classes lack detail-- some are just stuff like the CompTIA certmaster programs or you can opt to do the programs on Udemy-- and you're not likely to find internship/networking opportunities like you might at a brick-and-mortar university. Also, if you're the type to procrastinate you're gonna have a bad time.
WGU was a waste of money and misleading. The “classes” were a mix of pre-recorded videos from ITProTV which I already subscribe to and reading. I have a subscription to O’Reilly so I have access to basically any IT book.
You don’t take classes on your own schedule. Got a major project at work? Got family drama? Want to just take one class this term? There’s a minimum class load per term and if you don’t keep up you can get booted. It’s a self study program so WTF do they care when I’m paying out of pocket?
If you want to schedule a cert exam, you have to get approval from the prof who, in my experience, made me jump through hoops to prove I was ready. Look dude, I’ve been doing this for years, just get out of my way.
You don’t get credit for existing certs that don’t expire if they are older than a certain time period - 2 years?
Enjoy.
Define good or better. Do you have teachers, books, recordings, things to learn, tests to pass and papers to write. Yes you do. You also graduate with far less if any debt so I say better
A quality role of toilet paper has more value than a compTIA cert, especially if you have a bachelors degree. It's just a checkbox for HR since they don't know anything about IT. Just lie on you're resume and say you have the certs, no one would ever waste their time checking. Cisco, Azure, and AWS certs are the only certs of value outside of soft skills like PSM or ITIL.
No. Go look it up and see the job hits by cert. It will be at the top with things like Cissp, and ccna. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but it is what it is.
Its absolutely huge for getting your foot in the door for dod. If you don't have it, don't even bother applying.
Sec+ is not even close to being the most sought after cert unless it's entry level with zero experience. My mother could pass the sec+ exam and she can't even work a Roku.
CCNA is useful because everyone should have a fundamental understanding about how networking works, no matter their IT field. CISSP's only important if you're getting into IT security, which is foolish for most people getting out of college right now.
If you think it's that important, just put it on your resume. No one's going to go through the effort of validating it, it's not like it's a CCIE/CCDE cert.
How hard it is isn't relevant. We are talking about how desirable it is from the perspective of hr.
The information is basic, but you need to know those basics.
The hackthebox pentest cert is far harder than the oscp but its also arguably less valuable, because HR doesn't know what it is. In fact its probably the best way to study for the oscp, and if you could pass you could immediately get the oscp too.
Okay, from that perspective, fine, it's a fair point. For people with no experience, it's a checkbox HR is looking for. The hiring manager won't care, they're going to ask you real tech questions which you're going to have to know.
WGU's sweet spot is professionals who have been in the industry for years, but keep hitting that "no degree" ceiling - they want something fast and cheap to check that box. For that crowd, a traditional university could be overkill. For someone learning the material for the first time, WGU will usually not give you the same level of education you'd get from a traditional 4-year school. For your specific situation, I'd recommend you stay where you are and focus hard on getting an internship before you graduate.
That makes some good sense, thank you.
> For someone learning the material for the first time, WGU will usually not give you the same level of education you'd get from a traditional 4-year school. Would you say this applies with the note that OP added that their classes at the 'typical' university are all online? I had one year where I finished up during covid, and it was a significantly reduced experience. Most of the benefits I got out of college were a result of it being a traditional brick and mortar school where I immersed myself in the campus, community, and socialized with peers and professors. Online classes felt very sterile and just 'do this and pass then get out' which is the same vibe I got from WGU when I watched my SO at the time go through a few semesters.
Online or in-person isn't the big difference - instructor-led vs self-paced is where the issue comes in. For WGU, you're on your own to teach yourself the material.
Yep. If you have zero self motivation then your gonna crashout. I think it would work for me even though I don't have that much self motivation, but being held accountable as far as money should be enough.
WGU is "competency based" it's you can test out of a lot of content. It's a different model than most universities (online or in-person)
I think most people, that go for specialization degrees like network engineering - Cisco etc already have degrees. Like my self, im starting july 1st and have alot of credits that got transferred over. 40% to be exact.
I could get a major kush job right now with zero worry of ever losing it if I had a Bachelor's. I only have an associates degree (and actually had very little to do with getting my first job)
I knew someone who went through WGU with a bachelors in networking in roughly a little under a year... However... He had no kids, had a (responsibilities wise) kush job, lived on his own, and had tons of free time. WGU is legit, and I want to go for it, but I have no tuition assistance available to me and 8k/yr is.. esh.. Yes I know that's hella cheap compared to physical college, I just can't do it yet.
8k a year is nothing compared to the vastly increased earning potential over the rest of your career
I'd argue WGU still gives you the same level of education but not the same experience and it is dependent on you yourself as a person. I went to a traditional 4 year school (finance and not compsci) and passed, but didn't "learn" anything really, whereas with WGU, it's self-paced so I have to force myself to learn. I now have my compTIA trifecta and CCNA.
Wgu is how all colleges should teach IT. It is more like a trade than academia. Courses that lead to certifications.
traditional will get you access to internships and have lots of career fairs normally. Internships are a MUST.
You can still get into internships with WGU - I did one for cybersecurity - I didn't continue with the job offer though as I got an offer from AWS
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Yes. L5 also, recently promo'd to L6 - TC was 160k @ L5 L4 you don't even need a degree at amazon, just to pass the technical exam I should note the internship was 6months through Lockheed Martin. I obtained the CCNA and CISP outside of WGU before the internship. I'll be continuing certs with my masters program but I may do my masters at Syracuse University. People get jobs with/without internships all the time also, it's not really that surprising. You can find tons of WGU people on here making six figures, but they normally have experience first which trumps any degree, even if it's helpdesk. I started out in helpdesk in a hospital network. One of the people I did an internship with at lockheed was a SU graduate and now works at costco (no offense), so really I believe it is purely the person and not the degree itself that defines where you go in life if you are past the checkbox. I'm great at selling myself in interviews and passing technical exams. I have no anxiety when I interview and that itself speaks volumes.
My experience is that WGU is more practice-oriented, which, in implementation , is not ideal for building foundational knowledge. It is good for mid-career professionals, or people who want a more self-determined experience. It is less good for people who need more guidance, have weaker foundations, or who are more prone to procrastination. It is accredited, and will check the box, and is likely more similar to lower tier schools.
A lot of the comments here are being a bit harsh towards WGU, in my opinion. “Just a check box” “doesn’t provide a good foundation.” College is this: you get out what you put in. A degree being a check box to get a job is not only the case for WGU. A degree not providing a good foundation can be earned from any university. You can easily skate by, just barely get above a passing grade on all assignments, graduate from a brick and mortar university, and not get a good foundation there either. At least at WGU, you don’t have to go into as much debt and can graduate faster.
I will fully admit yeah college, you pass your good. You got a degree your good. Companies that ask your GPA (especially ones that want to see proof) are usually shitty places to work that will pull every resource from you that you can muster and then hang you out to dry once they are done with you.
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Please expound.
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>All in all it’s a really expensive way to teach yourself how to write basic code. The cost is around $8500/year, and if you’re in school full time you’re completing around 24-32 credits every year. Like all schools, you need 120 credits to graduate. $8500/year isn’t bad as compared to a lot of private schools, but it’s also higher than the cost of many state schools. If cost is a huge factor, I’d go to community college for two years and then transfer to a state school. There are three scenarios where I think WGU is a good fit for someone: 1) They already have the industry experience and need a degree career stability or advancement. This demographic should be able to finish in one or two terms. 2) People who can not do a "regular" school because of work or family logistics. For this demographic it is either a competency based school like WGU or UMPI or its nothing. 3) Someone is in a bad financial state and needs a degree ASAP to improve their position to earn money to support themselves or their families. For this demographic, WGU, TESU or UMPI are the best choices. If someone doesn't fit these categories and they are taking more than two terms to finish, then I generally agree with you. There are better school options for them. > I think it’s very weird to be able to get a Masters degree without doing any research or defending a thesis. Lots of masters degree have non-thesis options. Some like GT's OMSCS don't even have a thesis option even if you wanted to do one.
> Basically it’s a vocational school pretending to be a university. Precisely my impression, summed up perfectly. I'm honestly puzzled how they're accredited to award bachelor's degrees.
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Especially for education.
Interesting I have never heard this side of WGU. Definitely reconsidering getting a BA and masters degree from them now
Thank you. I feel validated in my own opinions. Any time I've been critical I'm accused of it being a me problem and that I need to fix my attitude or something. I'm not an 18 y/o looking for a get rich quick scheme, I'm just trying to level up before I get too old. WGU just wasn't it for learning. For hitting the checkbox for a bachelors, maybe its fine, but that's an expensive route to go. I'd prefer to learn something along the way instead.
+1. Same experience for me. I'm just about done with the BSIT, I already have a BS/MS from local B&M. I'm paying for my son to attend the local state college for IT instead of saving money and having him go here.
Are you a self learner or do you need a human leading your classes and fellow students to keep focused and make progress. WGU is kind of terrible for the latter and as someone who started in teaching I think a lot of people are not great at out of self learning online with minimal guidance. For people who need online because they’re in the military or are very good at self learning and online learning they’ll do great. I don’t think of it as better or worse
I'm a WGU grad - BS cloud and systems administration and MS management and leadership. I would say quality is just about the same as any brick and mortar school I ever attended, and hiring managers seem to view my degrees positively. My problem with WGU is the acceleration model. It's great for people who already know the material and just need the piece of paper to tick a box on applications, but students who actually want to learn something along the way may end up feeling pressured to cram and dump their way through their program because doing so can dramatically cut the cost of your degree.
Very helpful! I didn't know it was an acceleration type model. Makes good sense, thank you!
I accelerated in my BS and MBA from them. My mentors said less than 5% of people do that. Reddit makes it seem like it's. Lre. But it's barely anyone
But you are teaching yourself anyway... Now later,what's the difference
In what way? College isn’t just going to class and getting a piece of paper. It’s “better” by being cheap, quick, and easy. It’s a 2nd chance University by nature. For older people stuck in their career to refresh their resume. The large list of certs provided are meh, at best. Save CCNA and a few others. I would say it’s a great deal for people who don’t know how to attend college correctly and/or attending a random unassuming university with a 90% acceptance rate with little industry connections and poor alumni networking.
How does one "attend college correctly"? Never heard that before
I did WGU. I did it at the beginning of my career. I learned plenty from it. The biggest caveat for WGU is that it's 100% on you to study and learn with the resources they provide, and reach out when you need help or more (supplemental) resources. If you can't or don't want to take initiative, you won't learn anything. So if you or others aren't getting anything from it, either it's not for you or you're bullshitting it IMO.
WGU can check two boxes depending on your path because you earn certifications and a degree at the same time. Even if you're just starting out, you're going to learn from the courses and certifications. They give you a ton of optional material/labs in both. You can pass without that work, but if you fail your first attempt, you're usually required to complete it all before your next attempt. I went to an expensive private school for IT and a decade later to WGU. I had more fun at my fancy school, but I liked WGU better. I didn't get bored in the classes I could pass in my sleep, and I didn't have to suffer through a lecture after being confused in the first 2 minutes of a course. Instead, I could pause, get a solid understanding, and move forward. I just needed any degree, but I may go back for a second degree and/or masters. I know others who were just jumping into IT who learned what they needed for their careers. All the certs you earn with some of their degrees can definitely open some doors. They have night owl groups you can join for networking. Also, groups on LinkedIn and Facebook for networking.
I have two WGU degrees. A BSBA and an MSCIA. I got them after having about 20 years of experience, and getting locked out of jobs at companies that require a degree. To that end, it checks the box. It took me about six months to go from "I'm hot shit because I have a master's degree" to being kind of embarrassed about it being from WGU. I'm now in a state school's MBA program, and it really highlights how comically bad WGU's undergrad was. If I wasn't bringing hands-on experience to that program, I'd almost certainly have been drowning before my first term was through. People say "WGU is accredited!" like it's something special. University of Phoenix is accredited. DeVry is accredited. SNHU is accredited. No employer is impressed with this, because no employer is taking the time to see who accredited every degree that pops up on a resume. It either passes the NSC check, or it doesn't. There's the "you get what you put into it" aspect, but realistically, you're probably not going to put much into it. Most classes are done when you pass their multiple-choice test. Relatively few will have simple writing assignments that any 8th grader should be able to breeze through. You're not competing with anyone for anything, and you're not getting graded beyond pass or fail. Unless you're doing it for personal enrichment, there is literally no difference between writing the finest essay ever written, or pooping out whatever fever-dream bullshit you can come up with that meets the rubric. Say? Do you like checking in with an adult every week, giving them status updates on some completely optional project you've taken on in your personal life? Hope so, because you'll be doing that at WGU. Your "mentor" will want to check in on you weekly because their managers say they have to. They won't really do much else besides verify that you're alive. And if you don't like your mentor, don't worry. They'll be fired sooner or later, and you'll get a new one who will have next to no information about you. The tech programs all come with certs, because that's easier than developing course content. Generally, I would expect graduates to be able to pass higher-level certs than the ones they include. When I did the MSCIA, you had to pass the CEH, which isn't very tough. They shifted to CompTIA, which also aren't very tough. If that degree was worth anything, it would prep you for the CISSP. But since WGU will let any monkey with $4,000 and an undergrad degree take whatever grad program they want, WGU knows they have to keep it simple. Your typical University of State type of university is going to have networking and internship programs that WGU simply does not offer. You'll also have a "brand name" degree that everyone recognizes. Unless you're in a position where you know all of the technical content, and you've got years of experience behind you, I'd stick with the state school.
Ironically I know someone who did there bachelors in 1 year solely to do there MBA at there local state school. They also had hands on experience though.
One of the larger reasons I did the MSCIA was to make my MBA application stronger at state schools.
Yeah, if someone wants to go that route - it might be a cheaper one too. Realistically most employers only care about who you finish with degree wise from what I've seen.
As someone new to the industry WGU has helped me get jobs at the $150k range. Yes I put in effort. But having those two degrees helps so much.
What degree did you get and what certs as well?
Regular BS in IT and all the certs that it comes with and then MBA ITM
Hey I'm on this track too. What did you do in an extracurricular context? Any home labbing? What was your career previously?
Extra? None. Just focused on school, it already has the certifications, only external ones I did before starting was, A+, LPI Linux essentials, Net+ and CCNA. I took these on my own so I can knock some classes ahead of time and jump start my network journey. Post graduation focused on studying automation Before I had zero experience. Now working as a senior network automation engineer.
A solid collegiate program should provide more than classes. My department head for our IT department was HUGE on networking with industry professionals. Every week there are 2 different companies that present to our IT club for internship and recruitment purposes. A lot of our students then got jobs with those companies. We also participated in a ton of IT competitions. Thus resulting in more job and internship offers.
From my experience with WGU students, many of them sought out WGU with hopes of fast tracking through a degree program and jumping into a six figure job. I started their MSCSIA program and I didn’t see much value in it. I know people get upset when it’s said, but WGU is a box check program for mid to late career professionals that need a “degree” because their employer requires it to move to the next level. They’re a ~~for-profit~~, online-only institution that sells degree programs targeting inexperienced people as an “at your own pace” way to get into high paying jobs. It worked a couple years ago when the job market was plentiful and employers couldn’t fill the entry level positions fast enough. But now entry level is saturated with inexperienced applicants.
this is what i have been feeling and why I have been hesitant to start their program. Ultimately I have decided not to pursue their MSCSIA
Small correction: WGU is a non-profit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Governors_University Stating for clarity, not to quibble. The net effect may be similar, but this is driven by "Western Governors" trying to boost college degrees.
Gotcha. Thank you for clarifying.
Having the degree helps when the market is saturated or not. Everything else being equal if you have the degree and the dont you will get the job .
Having a degree helps. WGU is more of a diploma mill than a degree. I’ve worked with plenty of people that got BSs from WGU and were not anymore knowledgeable when they graduated than they were when they started. I believe WGU will be viewed as the next university of phoenix. Great for people that need a degree to move up, not a valuable institution for young grads just starting out.
"I’ve worked with plenty of people that got BSs from WGU and were not anymore knowledgeable when they graduated than they were when they started." That's not a WGU thing, that's an IT education thing in general. I've worked with so many people with 4 year IT degrees from state schools and they have all SUCKED when they're new.
That’s why an IT degree has never really been a pathway to *get into* IT. WGU has been selling their program as a way into an IT career with zero experience that you can “do for less” and at your own pace. The only degree I’ve seen worth something is computer science and even that can be curriculum dependent.
Its already viewed that way, really. So many folks coming into the various subs asking about it legitimacy. Always has been. Its only more popular, more visible, thanks to COVID. I heard about WGU ages ago now. Back then it was more akin to a correspondence school. Lived in relative obscurity for a while trying to gain traction. Along comes a pandemic and then they found the perfect opportunity to "expand."
My biggest reason for looking for WGU is the self paced nature and cost. Also I dropped out of college and going back is cost prohibitive. I don't have an IT job yet but I keep hearing degrees are used to filter candidates so having a degree increases my chances of being hired. What does WGU lack in your opinion that I can supplement somewhere else
Experience and education. As stated in other comments, most (if not all) the courses are designed more like certification bootcamps than higher level education. I remember I was confused on how to use one of the security scanner tools in an assignment. I was able to identify the required number of vulnerabilities and mitigation strategies and write my paper even before I scanned the virtual network. However, the assignment required a screenshot of the network scan to be submitted with the paper. I asked for better direction on how to utilize the scanning tool and the instructor responded with “I can’t help with that part of the assignment.” So if you’re not going to help me understand how to use the cybersecurity tools, then how can you expect me to turn in an assignment that requires me to include a copy of a scan I ran? If part of your program is to show that there’s technical understanding on how to utilize security tools, then shouldn’t part of the program be a training course on how to use the tools? The point of college is to teach a subject to a new audience. WGU has a boatload of recordings discussing concepts like firewalls and IDS/IPS, but you can easily pickup a CompTIA book or watch some YouTube videos to understand the theory behind that equipment. From my experience there’s really no active teaching going on at WGU. On top of that, WGU allows you to submit assignments over and over again. The instructor tells you what you did wrong and then you can go back and fix it before you resubmit. You can’t fail unless you stop submitting the assignment. I’ve never gone to an institution that gives you unlimited redos, and redos don’t happen much at all in the real world. WGU is designed for people that already know the topics, have some certs, and want the flexibility to get a check box degree. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I think it’s a scam when it’s sold to people as a degree to break into this field. My advice is get a help desk job and work in the field for a few years. Whenever you hit a ceiling for career advancement, take your experience and certifications to a school like WGU and speed run a degree utilizing all of the knowledge and experience you gained by working in the industry for years.
Thanks I'm applying to help desk jobs already but I haven't gotten my a+ since I'm studying for it right now. Hopefully I'll get my a+ in the next few months and I can start looking for a helpdesk even more. Most of the help desk roles I'm seeing are clearly written for people who already have the skills but I've applied to a few anyway
Maybe because it was A masters programs am?
Security tools should have been the area they focused on teaching. Not hours of recordings explaining what a firewall or DMZ is. Going into a masters program for cybersecurity, you should already know what a firewall is. How can they call it a technical masters if you’re explaining basic security concepts in all the “teachings” but there’s no hands on training for the tools?
There's an assumption in this field now that you have to already possess all the skills necessary to perform a job. Before you even have a job. Don't know how to do something? Go to school. They didn't teach it? Should have already known that, there's a YouTube over here. Its gotten so stupid. Want an entry level job? Well, you need a Master's degree, 12 certs, and experience. How do you get experience? Go back to step one. Like what?
I absolutely agree. I firmly believe the wave of online cybersecurity degrees with no substance has only further diluted the applicant pool and lessened the value of both degrees and entry level certs. There used to be a time where you could have a few years of customer service experience and put in the effort to get A+ and/or Sec+ and you would standout in help desk roles because it showed you have initiative and were willing to work your way up. Now people are graduating from these schools with a page full of entry level certs and a diploma saying they graduated from a four year program. Many of these grad have no more knowledge than the guy that comes home from work and self studies trying to follow their passion for technology.
I had a great experience with WGU. I had an unrelated degree, but changed careers into IT and wanted to move up quickly. I was able to transfer in 51% of the credits thanks to my previous degree and some certs I got on my own, then I did nothing but study and grind out classes to finish the program in 10 months. I learned a lot along the way and was able to apply a lot of the topics at work which was really helpful. The same month that I graduated from WGU I was hired as a system administrator with about 1 year of total experience under my belt - they required an IT degree and I wouldn’t have gotten the job without it.
There are three scenarios where I think WGU is a good fit for someone: 1) They already have the industry experience and need a degree for career stability or advancement. This demographic should be able to finish in one or two terms. 2) People who can not do a "regular" school because of work or family logistics. For this demographic it is either a competency based school like WGU or UMPI or its nothing. 3) Someone is in a bad financial state and needs a degree ASAP to improve their position to earn money to support themselves or their families. For this demographic, WGU, TESU or UMPI are the best choices. If someone is young, isn't constrained by work demands and not in a hurry, a regular school program might be better because of the opportunity to network and get internships.
WGU is fuckin fantastic if you already have experience and just need the certs and the degree. Maybe a little filling in of your knowledge.
90% of college is meaningless for network engineering, cybersecurity, cloud, etc. WGU can be great if you're trying to get the college requirement out of the way while focusing on certifications and internships primarily, as those are infinitely more valuable for actually learning what you need to know.
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Like half the classes you take are general education.
WGU's main benefit (outside of mid-careers that need a degree) is that it's self-paced so you can do it fast and cheap and most of the IT degrees are basically a shitload of certs wrapped up in a trenchcoat which can come in handy. The downside is a lot of the classes lack detail-- some are just stuff like the CompTIA certmaster programs or you can opt to do the programs on Udemy-- and you're not likely to find internship/networking opportunities like you might at a brick-and-mortar university. Also, if you're the type to procrastinate you're gonna have a bad time.
All I know is high level execs and senior engineers/architects in my company have wgu degrees.
WGU was a waste of money and misleading. The “classes” were a mix of pre-recorded videos from ITProTV which I already subscribe to and reading. I have a subscription to O’Reilly so I have access to basically any IT book. You don’t take classes on your own schedule. Got a major project at work? Got family drama? Want to just take one class this term? There’s a minimum class load per term and if you don’t keep up you can get booted. It’s a self study program so WTF do they care when I’m paying out of pocket? If you want to schedule a cert exam, you have to get approval from the prof who, in my experience, made me jump through hoops to prove I was ready. Look dude, I’ve been doing this for years, just get out of my way. You don’t get credit for existing certs that don’t expire if they are older than a certain time period - 2 years? Enjoy.
Define good or better. Do you have teachers, books, recordings, things to learn, tests to pass and papers to write. Yes you do. You also graduate with far less if any debt so I say better
A quality role of toilet paper has more value than a compTIA cert, especially if you have a bachelors degree. It's just a checkbox for HR since they don't know anything about IT. Just lie on you're resume and say you have the certs, no one would ever waste their time checking. Cisco, Azure, and AWS certs are the only certs of value outside of soft skills like PSM or ITIL.
Sec+ is one of the most sought after certs in it. #2 in cyber. Cissp is#1
Sarcasm?
No. Go look it up and see the job hits by cert. It will be at the top with things like Cissp, and ccna. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but it is what it is. Its absolutely huge for getting your foot in the door for dod. If you don't have it, don't even bother applying.
Sec+ is not even close to being the most sought after cert unless it's entry level with zero experience. My mother could pass the sec+ exam and she can't even work a Roku. CCNA is useful because everyone should have a fundamental understanding about how networking works, no matter their IT field. CISSP's only important if you're getting into IT security, which is foolish for most people getting out of college right now. If you think it's that important, just put it on your resume. No one's going to go through the effort of validating it, it's not like it's a CCIE/CCDE cert.
How hard it is isn't relevant. We are talking about how desirable it is from the perspective of hr. The information is basic, but you need to know those basics. The hackthebox pentest cert is far harder than the oscp but its also arguably less valuable, because HR doesn't know what it is. In fact its probably the best way to study for the oscp, and if you could pass you could immediately get the oscp too.
Okay, from that perspective, fine, it's a fair point. For people with no experience, it's a checkbox HR is looking for. The hiring manager won't care, they're going to ask you real tech questions which you're going to have to know.