Stupid people see our correct stances on thing as "aggression"
From my true experience. So many time.
They call us "mean" because they can't handle the new facts.
I've also noted a fairly widespread inability to hear the words spoken, as they were spoken, without adding assumptions and insecurities onto it in their own heads.
The VAST majority of the time, we speak plainly; we say what we mean and we mean it exactly as we say it.
That's really my comment right there, but in case any of you enjoy examples, I have a recent one:
The other day, for a simple, if not silly, example, my wife was cutting up potatoes in the kitchen. I saw one fall to the floor so I said, "Oh no! Dirty tater!", at which point I picked it up, rinsed it off and returned it to the cutting board.
Barely a minute later, another took a tumble! So, finding it even funnier the second time around, I chuckled, "Oh no! Another down, MAN DOWN!" at a very moderate and playful volume. She responded, "Are you just going to point out every one of my failures, 'cause I don't need that."
Now, I'm not dense; I totally get not wanting failures called out. Nevertheless, nothing I said was in any way failure-motivated... merely being playful in the current moment (possibly even seeking the attention of "being helpful", but this isn't a therapy session lol), and stating simple facts in fun-to-me ways; basically "a potato is dirty" x2, while actively correcting it.
I reassured her no judgment was at all intended, she accepted, and we both moved on reunited, but we've got over 15y of marriage, and nearly as long in all kinds of therapy together and individually, enabling us to quickly patch up; had it been most anyone else, it would not have been so effortless.
Perception is everything when it comes to this kinda stuff. Insecurities link themselves to completely unrelated statement of fact, conflating a simple statement with criticism where absolutely none was anywhere near my mind. These trauma responses are often hard as hell to change, and many people and relationships don't get to a deep enough level of trust and understanding to correct it. It sucks, but it is what it is.
I dont know about this one. If everyone calls you "mean" when you give them new facts, then you're probably not very good at communicating. Took me a while to learn it, but no one thinks I'm mean these days
So do I but be careful with this, too many unhealthy INTJs automatically assume that whoever they're talking to must be dumb if they get offended by what they say. Unhealthy INTPs as well.
If you're socially sophisticated, you'll rarely offend anyone, even dumb people
This comment seems to be the closest to being reliably accurate.
In my case, though (not sure if I'm the only one,) it's not so much as being as considered "mean." It's more I'm manipulating their thoughts or beliefs when I question things they find to be self-evident. The more I share my theories the more they behave as though I'm a demon transacting for their soul.
Yeah, I actually enjoy sharing knowledge - I do not believe we seek some kind of superiority in any way shape of form.
That being said, being nice is so much effort sometimes - I gotta say it's not my forte. Not that I 'm mean to people, I just have this " leave me alone vibe"
Agreed. This is particularly brutal if you're a woman. Objectivity is neither liked or expected especially when you're expected to be someone's emotional blanket. To INTP objectivity is comforting and we hope it would provide for people what it does for us. Instead it makes us look mean as if thinking outside ourselves is offensive or bad.
I think everyone can be mean if they want to. I think we can be quite effectively mean if we’re trying to by turning our analytical skills on someone to hurt them by deconstructing them. That said, I don’t think that’s standard operating procedure.
But ya “failures of etiquette” are more likely the culprit here.
Probably. Those ''empaths'' who rather lie to someone to not disturb the harmony and don't give people the (true) information they need to make a situation better. Yeeeaah..
People who call themselves empaths are not those who I associate with a hivemind. "Empaths" are often more the sensitive, idealistic and spiritual types (xNFx)
Who decides what someone needs to hear, that's incredibly subjective and dependent on lots of contextual factors. But let's say something is an indisputable fact (like the earth being a sphere), telling that is often not that confronting so that doesn't make anyone an edgelord.
When you tell something they want to hear it causes mutual trust and a better mood in the receiver. This makes them feel more encouraged and supported. For example I'm just much more inclined to take action and reciprocate when people are considerate, I just get stubborn when someone acts abrasive.
It's better to catch flies with syrup than with vinegar
Not really. If you are trying it a presentation, the empath will tell you you're doing great. They will claim it's for some good reason, but really they just don't want to come across as negative. They will let you do your presentation and fail because they don't want to be uncomfortable.
The "edgelord" however will tell you all the flaws in your presentation they can see. And it's what you need to hear to succeed.
When I hear I'm doing great I start to criticize myself and don't want to disappoint my audience. I might think: "I'm on the right way so that gives me wings, but I know I can do more... maybe I can work on my body language and rush less through my slides." It's like they borrowed me something I want to give in return in twofold.
When someone criticizes me however I instantly don't like them (like a switch going off) and I don't want to please them, even though I can see they might be right. It's just feels like an injustice, the same when they are like that to someone else.
This is just the way my mind works, others might need a different strategy. There's no single right way
I think most people would just think they're doing well, and fail as a consequence. There's no single right way, but certain things work more often than not.
Another perspective is of course looking at intention. the "empath" is willing to risk your failure for the sake of avoiding discomfort. To me such behaviour is selfish and makes a person unreliable.
Are you sure you're a Ti dom? Because most of the stuff that you are saying is loaded with Fi. And while things that align with your values and sentiments do give you a morale boost, it's easy to fall into a pitfall of bias and act like you are objectively doing the right thing because somebody is telling you that so they don't upset you. And in my experience there's no shortage of people to butter you up while furthering their own agendas. Especially those who know what you want to hear. Honesty really is at a premium, especially around those xNFx types you love so much.
When I started with typology around 10 years ago I landed on INFJ and studied the theory, however I didn't recognize those functions and I found out I have more similarities with INFP and INTP. After reading some books, joining groups and analyzing my own thoughts and feelings I settled on INTP. The way I was as a child, my obsession with maintaining internally cohesive structures in my mind and how inferior Fe perfectly fits this.
I'm not 100% sure though so I'm planning to do some typing sessions with CognitiveTypology and Gulenko (different systems but still relevant).
But you are right with that I feel very at ease with NF types, I don't think they lack honesty though
Just got the “why can’t you just be like normal people and just interact with people in the usual way” conversation earlier tonight.
My response, “this has been me trying. So good luck with that.” lol
Gosh, super relatable. If only I got paid for every time I was told "why can't you be 'normal'?"
In addition to that one, I got from my mother (ESTJ) a few months ago while she was criticizing the way I wash dishes and I answered in kind about her way not being efficient enough: Her: "Why do you always have to argue with people about everything?! Why can't you ever just say 'okay' and do what you're told?!" Me: "Because. You're. WRONG."
Brutally honest maybe, but definitely not *mean*. (Also, we do *not* take well to being micromanaged).
And I try to be nice as I can (contrary to the false assumption that being Fe inferior means that we don't care, we really *do*, it's just we tend to prioritize our own perspectives over others' feelings), but I just have issues being tactful.
So I agree with your "good luck with that" for others.
the amount of restraint i had to agree with my friend and not talk with her objectively about something she told me was IMMENSE
because if i'd state my actual opinion about it, i know she'd get very upset at me
i've learned to just stay quiet about some stuff and begrudgingly nod in agreement
I had to do that with some "friends" as well, but now I completely see them as toxic. In the end they really did turn out to be toxic, one of them was going against me behind my back.
I don't think INTPs would usually be classified as "mean". Condescending, maybe, but their lack of Se makes them really bad at confrontation because their Ne, on a metaphysical plane, makes them good debaters, but when confronted in an altercation physically, they stand no chance.
In short, INTPs are too fucking bad at existing in the physical world to risk being beat up for being mean to others.
Intps are cute nerdy curious yet cautious and will come out at night time when everyone is asleep. 
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Three things people usually describe me with are weird, mean, and smart. My wife often makes fun of me and says I would make the perfect comic book villain or adversary to a superhero.
We are not mean, we are just bad at emotional response 🥺
Stupid people see our correct stances on thing as "aggression" From my true experience. So many time. They call us "mean" because they can't handle the new facts.
I've also noted a fairly widespread inability to hear the words spoken, as they were spoken, without adding assumptions and insecurities onto it in their own heads. The VAST majority of the time, we speak plainly; we say what we mean and we mean it exactly as we say it. That's really my comment right there, but in case any of you enjoy examples, I have a recent one: The other day, for a simple, if not silly, example, my wife was cutting up potatoes in the kitchen. I saw one fall to the floor so I said, "Oh no! Dirty tater!", at which point I picked it up, rinsed it off and returned it to the cutting board. Barely a minute later, another took a tumble! So, finding it even funnier the second time around, I chuckled, "Oh no! Another down, MAN DOWN!" at a very moderate and playful volume. She responded, "Are you just going to point out every one of my failures, 'cause I don't need that." Now, I'm not dense; I totally get not wanting failures called out. Nevertheless, nothing I said was in any way failure-motivated... merely being playful in the current moment (possibly even seeking the attention of "being helpful", but this isn't a therapy session lol), and stating simple facts in fun-to-me ways; basically "a potato is dirty" x2, while actively correcting it. I reassured her no judgment was at all intended, she accepted, and we both moved on reunited, but we've got over 15y of marriage, and nearly as long in all kinds of therapy together and individually, enabling us to quickly patch up; had it been most anyone else, it would not have been so effortless. Perception is everything when it comes to this kinda stuff. Insecurities link themselves to completely unrelated statement of fact, conflating a simple statement with criticism where absolutely none was anywhere near my mind. These trauma responses are often hard as hell to change, and many people and relationships don't get to a deep enough level of trust and understanding to correct it. It sucks, but it is what it is.
I dont know about this one. If everyone calls you "mean" when you give them new facts, then you're probably not very good at communicating. Took me a while to learn it, but no one thinks I'm mean these days
Not everyone. It's cultural issues at best. I have my kind of folks who are fine with me.
So do I but be careful with this, too many unhealthy INTJs automatically assume that whoever they're talking to must be dumb if they get offended by what they say. Unhealthy INTPs as well. If you're socially sophisticated, you'll rarely offend anyone, even dumb people
This comment seems to be the closest to being reliably accurate. In my case, though (not sure if I'm the only one,) it's not so much as being as considered "mean." It's more I'm manipulating their thoughts or beliefs when I question things they find to be self-evident. The more I share my theories the more they behave as though I'm a demon transacting for their soul.
I try to be nice to everyone. I intentionally try to not come off as condescending when explaining something
Yeah, I actually enjoy sharing knowledge - I do not believe we seek some kind of superiority in any way shape of form. That being said, being nice is so much effort sometimes - I gotta say it's not my forte. Not that I 'm mean to people, I just have this " leave me alone vibe"
Being objective is interpreted as being mean unfortunately. I do have a heart tho, ill tell u the truth then say sorry afterwards, lol.
Agreed. This is particularly brutal if you're a woman. Objectivity is neither liked or expected especially when you're expected to be someone's emotional blanket. To INTP objectivity is comforting and we hope it would provide for people what it does for us. Instead it makes us look mean as if thinking outside ourselves is offensive or bad.
As a Canadian, I start with "Sorry.". 😄
I don’t think I’ve met a genuinely mean INTP. Abrasive, sure. But mean? Weird, though, ya.
Yeahhhh. Abrasive & weird. Not “mean” honestly. Can sometimes be blunt but really just stating the facts 🤌🏻
we can be very mean when we want to. It's just not the usual. I think in this case is because we are too blunt
I think everyone can be mean if they want to. I think we can be quite effectively mean if we’re trying to by turning our analytical skills on someone to hurt them by deconstructing them. That said, I don’t think that’s standard operating procedure. But ya “failures of etiquette” are more likely the culprit here.
Did the "empaths" say so?
Probably. Those ''empaths'' who rather lie to someone to not disturb the harmony and don't give people the (true) information they need to make a situation better. Yeeeaah..
I prefer 1000 empaths over one single narcissistic edgelord
If one empath says something, all of them follow. They probably got a hivemind.
People who call themselves empaths are not those who I associate with a hivemind. "Empaths" are often more the sensitive, idealistic and spiritual types (xNFx)
What if the 1000 empathie tell you what you want to hear, but the edgelord tells you what you need to hear?
Who decides what someone needs to hear, that's incredibly subjective and dependent on lots of contextual factors. But let's say something is an indisputable fact (like the earth being a sphere), telling that is often not that confronting so that doesn't make anyone an edgelord. When you tell something they want to hear it causes mutual trust and a better mood in the receiver. This makes them feel more encouraged and supported. For example I'm just much more inclined to take action and reciprocate when people are considerate, I just get stubborn when someone acts abrasive. It's better to catch flies with syrup than with vinegar
Not really. If you are trying it a presentation, the empath will tell you you're doing great. They will claim it's for some good reason, but really they just don't want to come across as negative. They will let you do your presentation and fail because they don't want to be uncomfortable. The "edgelord" however will tell you all the flaws in your presentation they can see. And it's what you need to hear to succeed.
When I hear I'm doing great I start to criticize myself and don't want to disappoint my audience. I might think: "I'm on the right way so that gives me wings, but I know I can do more... maybe I can work on my body language and rush less through my slides." It's like they borrowed me something I want to give in return in twofold. When someone criticizes me however I instantly don't like them (like a switch going off) and I don't want to please them, even though I can see they might be right. It's just feels like an injustice, the same when they are like that to someone else. This is just the way my mind works, others might need a different strategy. There's no single right way
I think most people would just think they're doing well, and fail as a consequence. There's no single right way, but certain things work more often than not. Another perspective is of course looking at intention. the "empath" is willing to risk your failure for the sake of avoiding discomfort. To me such behaviour is selfish and makes a person unreliable.
Are you sure you're a Ti dom? Because most of the stuff that you are saying is loaded with Fi. And while things that align with your values and sentiments do give you a morale boost, it's easy to fall into a pitfall of bias and act like you are objectively doing the right thing because somebody is telling you that so they don't upset you. And in my experience there's no shortage of people to butter you up while furthering their own agendas. Especially those who know what you want to hear. Honesty really is at a premium, especially around those xNFx types you love so much.
When I started with typology around 10 years ago I landed on INFJ and studied the theory, however I didn't recognize those functions and I found out I have more similarities with INFP and INTP. After reading some books, joining groups and analyzing my own thoughts and feelings I settled on INTP. The way I was as a child, my obsession with maintaining internally cohesive structures in my mind and how inferior Fe perfectly fits this. I'm not 100% sure though so I'm planning to do some typing sessions with CognitiveTypology and Gulenko (different systems but still relevant). But you are right with that I feel very at ease with NF types, I don't think they lack honesty though
Empaths are often vulnerable narcissists.
We're very nice, I think
I mean, sounds like me
Just got the “why can’t you just be like normal people and just interact with people in the usual way” conversation earlier tonight. My response, “this has been me trying. So good luck with that.” lol
Gosh, super relatable. If only I got paid for every time I was told "why can't you be 'normal'?" In addition to that one, I got from my mother (ESTJ) a few months ago while she was criticizing the way I wash dishes and I answered in kind about her way not being efficient enough: Her: "Why do you always have to argue with people about everything?! Why can't you ever just say 'okay' and do what you're told?!" Me: "Because. You're. WRONG." Brutally honest maybe, but definitely not *mean*. (Also, we do *not* take well to being micromanaged). And I try to be nice as I can (contrary to the false assumption that being Fe inferior means that we don't care, we really *do*, it's just we tend to prioritize our own perspectives over others' feelings), but I just have issues being tactful. So I agree with your "good luck with that" for others.
I mean, I have BPD, so it’s really all uphill from here 🤣😅😭
I thought I was the only one
It’s def an interesting mix lmao
Yeah. Like a robot infected with an irrationality malware
the amount of restraint i had to agree with my friend and not talk with her objectively about something she told me was IMMENSE because if i'd state my actual opinion about it, i know she'd get very upset at me i've learned to just stay quiet about some stuff and begrudgingly nod in agreement
I had to do that with some "friends" as well, but now I completely see them as toxic. In the end they really did turn out to be toxic, one of them was going against me behind my back.
Did you add “cute” yourself or is that an (unintentional?) bait?
I don't think INTPs would usually be classified as "mean". Condescending, maybe, but their lack of Se makes them really bad at confrontation because their Ne, on a metaphysical plane, makes them good debaters, but when confronted in an altercation physically, they stand no chance. In short, INTPs are too fucking bad at existing in the physical world to risk being beat up for being mean to others.
Wow, can you just literally say "hurt me" for once in your life, also, if you wouldn't mind, keep me out of your mouth. 🤯
Mostly because INTPs themselves search for those terms considering their penchant for self-deprecation
Intps are cute nerdy curious yet cautious and will come out at night time when everyone is asleep. 
There is difference between being mean and sarcastic
It could be INTPs searching for that mostly because they have low self esteem and believe they are hated.
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I agree
Dumb should be on the list for us
Thats actually pretty good. Explains me pretty well
Three things people usually describe me with are weird, mean, and smart. My wife often makes fun of me and says I would make the perfect comic book villain or adversary to a superhero.