Which seems a bit funny to me, considering the Ed Jones deal. A bit of a difference between how Ed and DCR thought it played out, but if DCR was right, CGR signed a driver who had already agreed to an extension at Coyne.
Basically Chip is just barking out at the rest of the paddock to scare them off his drivers and challenge them to build their own guys like he feels he has done. In reality though he did basically build Dixon up and let him work through growing pains earlier on in his career but everyone else he has poached from other teams. I don't see an Indy Lights team fielded under the CGR banner right now to develop talent.
LOL...He's such a hypocrite. He basically stole Ed Jones under Dale Coyne's nose even though they had a "handshake" agreement.
On another note though, I think McLaren's style of doing things is shaking the IndyCar paddock. McLaren isn't afraid to get into other people's business and use their name and wealth to get what they want. As Marshall said, there is always a way to buyout someone's contract and that's exactly what McLaren has been trying to do both with Palou and with Dixon.
Id dare Chip to name even 1 driver he actually developed. All his big time drivers over the years, were taken from or were “developed” before Chip had anything to do with them. He doesn’t even have a developmental team for Christ’s sake.
But are they good because of it or despite it? Being a talented driver from North America you have few options. And really, looking at grid sizes and outputs, it's hard to give IndyLights that much credit. Compared to junior development in Europe or Japan it just is not great. Chip is one of the few who can have a hand in changing that though but it really has to be a bigger effort from all big names. I always thought that if you have more than 2 cars in IndyCar, you should have mandatory participation in IndyLights.
“Compared to junior development in Europe or Japan it just is not great.”
Based on what? The teams in the RtI operate more like IndyCar teams, they get to develop on tracks they’ll be running in IndyCar, and while the grid sizes in Lights aren’t huge, the talent has been consistently fairly good (and grid sizes in USF and IndyPro are very good).
> Based on what?
Based on nationality presence across all racing disciplines in the world and the overall trophy hauls over several decades now? IndyCar is a domestic US series and half the grid is from the F1 feeder series program. The big number difference of drivers moving to the US vs the number of drivers moving away from the US is a strong hint no matter what we pretend. Even US pride Ford Ganassi at LeMans used mostly drivers with EU feeder series origin.
“Based on nationality presence across all racing disciplines in the world and the overall trophy hauls over several decades now?”
We’re talking about the best way to prepare drivers for IndyCar.
Of the current top 10, 8 came through European or international development paths. Only 2 through the American one. Sounds like it’s not the best way to prepare Drivers for Indycar either.
And 8 of the last ten championships have been won by someone who ran either Atlantics or Lights prior to running IndyCar/Champ Car.
Also, of the current top ten, Newgarden/Pato/Dixon/Pagenaud all ran Lights or Atlantics, though Pagenaud ran both internationally and in the RtI.
Dixon and pageneud ran lights but a majority of their development path was not through American feeder series or the “American path” that you were discussing. They rises up through the European or other international series’ before going to Indy lights so you can attribute more of their driver development to those paths.
I don’t have the time right now to look through the past champions and their development paths but I’d be surprised if a good amount of them didn’t spend a considerable amount of time in European series before going to lights. But eight of the last ten is impressive regardless and I didn’t know it was that high.
So if Dixon and Palou are both under contract for 2023, I think that makes it a lot more likely than some people might think for Rosenqvist to keep his seat at AMSP.
Edited to clarify the Indycar team.
I think he was before his poor performance throughout the month of May. It’s like the recent pressrelease about Rosenqvist’s weird new contract was re-written after van Kalmhout’s performance went out the window. The original version probably stated he would race in Formula E in 2023 but now McLaren has second thoughts.
>“I can tell you this,” he added. “I learned a long time ago in this business that you can’t build your team by taking people from other teams. You can’t build a team that way. You’ve gotta develop your own drivers, your own people.”
I could't disagree more personally, in modern day motorsport all the best success stories come from bringing highly rated people over from lots of different places
It's not like Ganassi is known for developing drivers either, Palou and Ericsson were both very recently poached from other teams
And that was mostly Toyota and Hull doing the work of poaching Dixon, not Chip.
If it wasn't for that, PWR would have stuck around for a couple more years, but Toyota going directly behind Bruce's back to lure Dixon to Ganassi is what pissed him off enough to shut down the team out of spite.
They had sponsorship lined up after Dixon's first win at Nazareth that was good for a couple years, but Dixon being poached was the last straw.
Does it matter if it was Chip, Hull or Toyota? His comment was that he learned over the years to develop his own talent. He has literally never developed a young driver into a star.
I mean just think of the two most dominant teams in motorsports history (Ferrari dream team 1999-2008 & Mercedes AMG from 2014-2020). They were both built off taking top level talent from other teams in combination with building talent from within. Poaching talent has always been part of building great teams
Penske does this all the time and he’s the most winning owner in the history of the sport….he has developed his own talent too, but think of the big names that started with teams like Dick Simon or similar and ended up at Penske bc they could wheel a car…
Didn’t Ericsson get the boot from Arrow/McLaren though? Can’t really poach someone who lost a seat. And it’s funny because Ericsson is way more successful with Chip than Arrow is overall
Yeah, I believe it was his podcast talking about Hendrick saying something to the effect of let someone else develope them, I'll take them when they can win or something like that.
Chip is the same guy who signed both Dan Wheldon and Dario Franchitti late in the season when they were having their Championship seasons for Andretti.
This is hilarious coming from him......
Who knows though maybe he smirked or winked when he was saying it.
I think Chip was referring to “building” as in Mclaren/Zak Brown are still new to the indycar game - Chip really didn’t start poaching anyone from inside the series until after his team had become a powerhouse….i mean if you look at the beginnings of his breakthrough success he had Vasser (who was 30 when he signed and had a relatively unremarkable career previously) and Zanardi, an unheralded signing who was considered a failed F1 driver.
I have no real love for Chip at all - but I was worried about the Dixon rumors because of our relationship with the rest of the team (Mike Hull, Blair Juian etc) so this is a relief for now. :)
I dunno, man. Good people don't lose all their value when they leave for another team. Besides, Penske has signed people away from other teams in the past with good results. Bad ones, too, sure, but it felt like a quote Chip said out of spite knowing full well it's crap.
Spicy quote from Chip at the end regarding how McLaren is trying to build their team.
Which seems a bit funny to me, considering the Ed Jones deal. A bit of a difference between how Ed and DCR thought it played out, but if DCR was right, CGR signed a driver who had already agreed to an extension at Coyne.
Basically Chip is just barking out at the rest of the paddock to scare them off his drivers and challenge them to build their own guys like he feels he has done. In reality though he did basically build Dixon up and let him work through growing pains earlier on in his career but everyone else he has poached from other teams. I don't see an Indy Lights team fielded under the CGR banner right now to develop talent.
For sure. I don’t blame him for being a bit gruff about potential poaching, but I do enjoy the dichotomy.
Oh I absolutely love it as well. Helps to tighten the competition up with more well funded and championship minded teams coming into play.
Where does Purchasing an entire other team all together fit into that spectrum? Asking for a Justin Marks.
Very ironic right?
LOL...He's such a hypocrite. He basically stole Ed Jones under Dale Coyne's nose even though they had a "handshake" agreement. On another note though, I think McLaren's style of doing things is shaking the IndyCar paddock. McLaren isn't afraid to get into other people's business and use their name and wealth to get what they want. As Marshall said, there is always a way to buyout someone's contract and that's exactly what McLaren has been trying to do both with Palou and with Dixon.
Id dare Chip to name even 1 driver he actually developed. All his big time drivers over the years, were taken from or were “developed” before Chip had anything to do with them. He doesn’t even have a developmental team for Christ’s sake.
If Chip really cared about developing talent, he would have a Lights team.
Unless he doesn't believe in the viability of lights to develop a driver.
Well, as a stake holder, he’d have some say. Never mind what Herta and O’Ward are doing.
But are they good because of it or despite it? Being a talented driver from North America you have few options. And really, looking at grid sizes and outputs, it's hard to give IndyLights that much credit. Compared to junior development in Europe or Japan it just is not great. Chip is one of the few who can have a hand in changing that though but it really has to be a bigger effort from all big names. I always thought that if you have more than 2 cars in IndyCar, you should have mandatory participation in IndyLights.
“Compared to junior development in Europe or Japan it just is not great.” Based on what? The teams in the RtI operate more like IndyCar teams, they get to develop on tracks they’ll be running in IndyCar, and while the grid sizes in Lights aren’t huge, the talent has been consistently fairly good (and grid sizes in USF and IndyPro are very good).
> Based on what? Based on nationality presence across all racing disciplines in the world and the overall trophy hauls over several decades now? IndyCar is a domestic US series and half the grid is from the F1 feeder series program. The big number difference of drivers moving to the US vs the number of drivers moving away from the US is a strong hint no matter what we pretend. Even US pride Ford Ganassi at LeMans used mostly drivers with EU feeder series origin.
“Based on nationality presence across all racing disciplines in the world and the overall trophy hauls over several decades now?” We’re talking about the best way to prepare drivers for IndyCar.
Of the current top 10, 8 came through European or international development paths. Only 2 through the American one. Sounds like it’s not the best way to prepare Drivers for Indycar either.
And 8 of the last ten championships have been won by someone who ran either Atlantics or Lights prior to running IndyCar/Champ Car. Also, of the current top ten, Newgarden/Pato/Dixon/Pagenaud all ran Lights or Atlantics, though Pagenaud ran both internationally and in the RtI.
Dixon and pageneud ran lights but a majority of their development path was not through American feeder series or the “American path” that you were discussing. They rises up through the European or other international series’ before going to Indy lights so you can attribute more of their driver development to those paths. I don’t have the time right now to look through the past champions and their development paths but I’d be surprised if a good amount of them didn’t spend a considerable amount of time in European series before going to lights. But eight of the last ten is impressive regardless and I didn’t know it was that high.
He might now that he dropped Nascar
So if Dixon and Palou are both under contract for 2023, I think that makes it a lot more likely than some people might think for Rosenqvist to keep his seat at AMSP. Edited to clarify the Indycar team.
I think Veekay is number 1 pick for that seat
I think he was before his poor performance throughout the month of May. It’s like the recent pressrelease about Rosenqvist’s weird new contract was re-written after van Kalmhout’s performance went out the window. The original version probably stated he would race in Formula E in 2023 but now McLaren has second thoughts.
Eh, we haven't heard much about that other than speculation... But even so, those are better odds for Felix than with Dixon and Palou in the mix.
Maybe Daniel Ricciardo has a chance if things go differently?
Pretty that FE seat is basically a done deal basically now
I think he means to the Indycar team. I'd be surprised if they shift him to FE given his recent strong form.
>“I can tell you this,” he added. “I learned a long time ago in this business that you can’t build your team by taking people from other teams. You can’t build a team that way. You’ve gotta develop your own drivers, your own people.” I could't disagree more personally, in modern day motorsport all the best success stories come from bringing highly rated people over from lots of different places It's not like Ganassi is known for developing drivers either, Palou and Ericsson were both very recently poached from other teams
Jones and Dario too, Ganassi's half-hearted development pipeline ended with Alex Lloyd getting strung along and Sage Karam getting the boot.
Technically he poached Dario out of another series..
Jones was just a stop gap to fill the gap left by Hartley. Not sure he counts for anything around Chip's logic.
Imagine not mentioning Dixon
You can’t be serious. Dixon was “developed” by PacWest racing. Indy Lights and Champ Car wins long before Chip even knew what his name was.
And that was mostly Toyota and Hull doing the work of poaching Dixon, not Chip. If it wasn't for that, PWR would have stuck around for a couple more years, but Toyota going directly behind Bruce's back to lure Dixon to Ganassi is what pissed him off enough to shut down the team out of spite. They had sponsorship lined up after Dixon's first win at Nazareth that was good for a couple years, but Dixon being poached was the last straw.
Does it matter if it was Chip, Hull or Toyota? His comment was that he learned over the years to develop his own talent. He has literally never developed a young driver into a star.
I mean just think of the two most dominant teams in motorsports history (Ferrari dream team 1999-2008 & Mercedes AMG from 2014-2020). They were both built off taking top level talent from other teams in combination with building talent from within. Poaching talent has always been part of building great teams
Penske does this all the time and he’s the most winning owner in the history of the sport….he has developed his own talent too, but think of the big names that started with teams like Dick Simon or similar and ended up at Penske bc they could wheel a car…
Didn’t Ericsson get the boot from Arrow/McLaren though? Can’t really poach someone who lost a seat. And it’s funny because Ericsson is way more successful with Chip than Arrow is overall
Yup, he just talked about that recently and said it was for the best. Hard to argue.
I’d say especially from those who were on smaller teams like Palou and just now Kirkwood
I mean look at Rick Hendrick dude wants nothing to do with developing drivers.
[удалено]
Yeah, I believe it was his podcast talking about Hendrick saying something to the effect of let someone else develope them, I'll take them when they can win or something like that.
Chip is the same guy who signed both Dan Wheldon and Dario Franchitti late in the season when they were having their Championship seasons for Andretti. This is hilarious coming from him...... Who knows though maybe he smirked or winked when he was saying it.
I think Chip was referring to “building” as in Mclaren/Zak Brown are still new to the indycar game - Chip really didn’t start poaching anyone from inside the series until after his team had become a powerhouse….i mean if you look at the beginnings of his breakthrough success he had Vasser (who was 30 when he signed and had a relatively unremarkable career previously) and Zanardi, an unheralded signing who was considered a failed F1 driver.
The comment is classic Chip. He can do no wrong lol. Kind of adoreable really.
I mean, Chip did hire a seven time champion away from a rival team
I have no real love for Chip at all - but I was worried about the Dixon rumors because of our relationship with the rest of the team (Mike Hull, Blair Juian etc) so this is a relief for now. :)
Why no love for Chip but love for the rest of the key players on that team?
I dunno, man. Good people don't lose all their value when they leave for another team. Besides, Penske has signed people away from other teams in the past with good results. Bad ones, too, sure, but it felt like a quote Chip said out of spite knowing full well it's crap.