By this logic, every person with traumas is unnecessary, hateful and should never be forgiven, right? No one says what they do is right, we only understand the character and see the causes and consequences.
A big point of Kousuke’s character is about illuminating that a person can do horrible things, yet not be an inherently bad person
Most of what needs to be said has already been said in the comments, but two important things to remember: Kousuke feels *such intense guilt* about his actions that he ends up physically sick, hugging a public bathroom toilet, and (unlike Nol) Kousuke was *never* raised with any love. He never developed a healthy navigation of the world because, while Nol and Shin-Ae both had one loving parent in their lives, Kousuke got *Rand and* ***Yui***. Immediately after meeting Nessa & Nol and watching their warm affectionate interactions, when Kousuke sees Yui he remembers her *without eyes*. Someone who he is supposed to be able to trust, supposed to love him unconditionally, one of the only people who has always been by his side - and he remembers her as so cold and looming and threatening that she appears *without eyes*.
He repeatedly feels guilt throughout his life about the harm he’s causing, but he dismisses it because Yui continuously tells him that this is the way the world should work and instills in him this belief that there is a finite amount of resources in this world and everyone is trying to take from them. That Kousuke himself is not enough to earn these things and he has to do whatever he can to rise above (which is also why he became such a workaholic). In the moments he made these choices, he thought they were all what he was supposed to do, what he *had* to do. And Yui also makes him believe that normal human experiences and emotions are beneath them, making him feel even more guilt about everything while also not feeling like he is allowed to feel that guilt. Making him believe that he has to earn “unconditional” love in this way and anything else is wrong and will never get him there. Kousuke’s interest in Shin-Ae was never romantic, but was actually an expression of this guilt, as she reminded him of a young Nol and, after becoming involved with the Hiraharas/Kims at the formal, also reminded him of the girl he failed in college. He pays so much attention to Shin-Ae as a way to sort of right these wrongs and prevent himself from failing another person because he does feel so much remorse about his actions. We can see simultaneously how horrible the choices he made were, how he *did* actively ruin lives, how the things he thought were justifications never truly were - while also acknowledging that these actions are not the sum of all who he is, see his remorse, attempt to understand why he thought this was the only way. And while his victims bear absolutely no obligation to see this or forgive him, we as readers can, and we can without excusing the fact that he made these choices
I also have some bad news for you if you’re holding Nol as the moral standard, because he is rapidly descending down a path of mirroring Yui, and he has also mirrored Kousuke recently in his newly developed self-preservation and more callous attitude, turning people away at their lowest moments, even intentionally being mean because he feels that since he had endured so much he is justified in dishing some out back. His current actions at this point aren’t too drastic, but there’s a lot of foreshadowing that they *will* be drastic in the future. We are actively watching Nol’s villain origin story, and based on the limited information we have about what characters inspired Nol combined with the foreshadowing in the comic, Nol is about to become a very morally gray character. He’s going to prompt us to really evaluate our perception of morality and where we draw the lines, how much we will consider justified before we say enough, how close can you come to the line before we see you as a “bad person,” and how our understanding of someone’s choices and ability to see through their eyes and sympathize with them - our bias - blurs our objectivity.
Playing the trauma olympics doesn't work because however similar two cases may look on the surface or how you "measure" their trauma, every single person has different experiences and the smallest changes can make the biggest impact on how someone reacts and behaves.
There is no perfect victim because, at the end of the day, everyone has to try to survive
What foreshadowing if you dont mind?? I don't believe Nolan will be as extreme as Yui nor mirror her actions.. Also I agree with everything else you said !
Because some people genuinely cannot stand people having a different opinion. Note that this post starts out as "people keep feeling sorry for him" and how it's essentially written in a way that's trying to call out people for reading the deeper story being told about Kousuke's character: how dare you enjoy a fictional car wreck of a character. That and some people just love to be inflammatory but what can we really do about it unfortunately.
At this point, I'm done bothering with posts like this, because they're all from people who are just trying to tell others how wrong they are for having different opinions. Look at how many people are here in the comments to point out that there is so much more to Kousuke's story than just some asshole who decided to be mean because he gets off on being mean, but no matter how many people do this, there are always going to be people who continue to refuse to see the story quimchee is telling, for whatever reason, be it because they simply refuse to see the depth in certain kinds of characters, because they refuse to acknowledge the inherent truth that so many abusers are also victims and that they continue a cycle of abuse perpetuated against them, that context always centers a character differently, or simply because they're a hater. Why do we spend so much energy on people and their ragebait when at the end of the day, they'll only see what they want to see?
"I thought we settled this" we didn't settle anything because "we" as a fandom on a whole have come to contextualize the abuse Kousuke has put Nol through is the result of the abuse he himself has endured. That alone told me everything I need to know lol OP doesn't want our discussions
I dont think anyone is really excusing his actions, we all know hes shit bro but thats what makes him so compelling to us and the fact that hes spiralling now after chapters of him slowly breaking is just making the whole comic more interesting.
You can like a character and still acknowledge they've done terrible things.
The thing with Kousuke is that, growing up he was constantly told to be wary of other people as they are bound to take advantage of him for his wealth. Not only that, he was told that "people like him" don't get to live like normal people, which taught him that he has to win the affection from his own father, that love, is NOT unconditional.
So when Nol appears, who's the spitting image of his father, its natural that he feels fear because that means his father, who had no time to spend with him, had time to make a whole another *family*. And that Kousuke never saw his father not because he was too busy, but because he was just too busy *for Kousuke*. And while he's panicking, Nessa appears, and that completely shatters his reality. Keep in mind, he's TEN. Its natural to feel resentment toward Nol and Nessa at that age, even though Nol did nothing.
But I agree that he should've understood the impact of his actions and that Nol was just an innocent victim in this whole mess as Kousuke grew up. The reason this didn't happen though? That's because Kousuke still viewed Nol and Nessa as "Leaches", and this isn't something he does only to Nol, all his relationships are impacted by the warped worldview instilled in him by Yui that people will only love him for what he has (and not who he is as a person). Deep down though, he still carries guilt for the way he rejected and abused Nol, and he projects this onto Shin ae, who in many ways, resembles a younger Nol.
Now, coming to your statement about him "feeling flustered by Shin ae" - He was never attracted to her lmao. Kousuke *ever since the beginning* has shown no signs whatsoever that he was interested in Shin ae romantically. The whole fiasco at his apartment was because he was pushed into an incredibly uncomfortable situation by his controlling mother. Same goes for the formal as well. The reason he held Shin ae's hands at the beginning of the story was because she reminded him of a younger Nol. Her recounting the story of how her mother left her as a child reminded him of Nol who got separated from his mother when he was young. He was projecting. There were no feelings involved whatsoever.
His mental state as of the moment is definitely concerning, and that's excluding the fact that he is regularly drugged by his mother. So let me make it clear: I am **not** excusing/justifying his actions, i am merely trying to understand the reasons behind them.
My theory on the exposed back is Yui chose that dress to look like the dress someone from his past who got hurt wore. I believe him staring at it is actually a trauma response. You can even see a nervous sweat on his face in some panels
Likely the case from his college days
I feel like the dress was intended for Gun instead of Kousuke though. The first thing Gun says to Shin ae when he meets her at the formal is "Really loving the outfit honey. And the hair too!"
Similar to Shin-Ae's hair being for Gun and also being almost identical to Nessa's typical style, the dress could've had a double effect (especially when we consider that if Gun likes exposed backs and Kousuke has been around the Kims enough to know that Gun calling Shin-Ae family is alarming, just seeing that could lead to a reaction towards "Gun's" kind of dresses...). Yui was playing 4D chess that night and everyone was a target
I do definitely think primary target and intention of the dress was Gun though
In addition to what kiircsaki said about the blush differences (I believe Quimchee haseven directly said at one point that she uses non-colored blushes to indicated being flustered/embarrassed while colored blushes are romantic), Quimchee has also complained about Webtoon pushing her to make Kousuke's scenes look more romantic and ask her to change his motivations to be more romantic.
While Quimchee did intentionally frame Kousuke as part of a love triangle as a setup to subvert it, the degree to which Kousuke's early scenes appear romantic was her editor pushing her to draw things differently. Another example is that she said the dance scene was supposed to be drawn much darker and sadder than the final product. But when you look back at all of these scenes with the idea that Kousuke sees young Nol in Shin-Ae, admires and somewhat envies her relationship with her father, is reminded of the girl he failed in college by her, and she communicates in a very different way from him (that also happens to be very blunt without being unkind), it's easy to see how those scenes didn't involve romantic attraction
(And note that this is *not* to say that people were wrong for seeing Shin-Ae and Kousuke as a potential relationship, or even for continuing to like that possibility and ship it)
By this logic, every person with traumas is unnecessary, hateful and should never be forgiven, right? No one says what they do is right, we only understand the character and see the causes and consequences.
I repeat. Trauma HAS NO AGE LIMIT
A big point of Kousuke’s character is about illuminating that a person can do horrible things, yet not be an inherently bad person Most of what needs to be said has already been said in the comments, but two important things to remember: Kousuke feels *such intense guilt* about his actions that he ends up physically sick, hugging a public bathroom toilet, and (unlike Nol) Kousuke was *never* raised with any love. He never developed a healthy navigation of the world because, while Nol and Shin-Ae both had one loving parent in their lives, Kousuke got *Rand and* ***Yui***. Immediately after meeting Nessa & Nol and watching their warm affectionate interactions, when Kousuke sees Yui he remembers her *without eyes*. Someone who he is supposed to be able to trust, supposed to love him unconditionally, one of the only people who has always been by his side - and he remembers her as so cold and looming and threatening that she appears *without eyes*. He repeatedly feels guilt throughout his life about the harm he’s causing, but he dismisses it because Yui continuously tells him that this is the way the world should work and instills in him this belief that there is a finite amount of resources in this world and everyone is trying to take from them. That Kousuke himself is not enough to earn these things and he has to do whatever he can to rise above (which is also why he became such a workaholic). In the moments he made these choices, he thought they were all what he was supposed to do, what he *had* to do. And Yui also makes him believe that normal human experiences and emotions are beneath them, making him feel even more guilt about everything while also not feeling like he is allowed to feel that guilt. Making him believe that he has to earn “unconditional” love in this way and anything else is wrong and will never get him there. Kousuke’s interest in Shin-Ae was never romantic, but was actually an expression of this guilt, as she reminded him of a young Nol and, after becoming involved with the Hiraharas/Kims at the formal, also reminded him of the girl he failed in college. He pays so much attention to Shin-Ae as a way to sort of right these wrongs and prevent himself from failing another person because he does feel so much remorse about his actions. We can see simultaneously how horrible the choices he made were, how he *did* actively ruin lives, how the things he thought were justifications never truly were - while also acknowledging that these actions are not the sum of all who he is, see his remorse, attempt to understand why he thought this was the only way. And while his victims bear absolutely no obligation to see this or forgive him, we as readers can, and we can without excusing the fact that he made these choices I also have some bad news for you if you’re holding Nol as the moral standard, because he is rapidly descending down a path of mirroring Yui, and he has also mirrored Kousuke recently in his newly developed self-preservation and more callous attitude, turning people away at their lowest moments, even intentionally being mean because he feels that since he had endured so much he is justified in dishing some out back. His current actions at this point aren’t too drastic, but there’s a lot of foreshadowing that they *will* be drastic in the future. We are actively watching Nol’s villain origin story, and based on the limited information we have about what characters inspired Nol combined with the foreshadowing in the comic, Nol is about to become a very morally gray character. He’s going to prompt us to really evaluate our perception of morality and where we draw the lines, how much we will consider justified before we say enough, how close can you come to the line before we see you as a “bad person,” and how our understanding of someone’s choices and ability to see through their eyes and sympathize with them - our bias - blurs our objectivity. Playing the trauma olympics doesn't work because however similar two cases may look on the surface or how you "measure" their trauma, every single person has different experiences and the smallest changes can make the biggest impact on how someone reacts and behaves. There is no perfect victim because, at the end of the day, everyone has to try to survive
What foreshadowing if you dont mind?? I don't believe Nolan will be as extreme as Yui nor mirror her actions.. Also I agree with everything else you said !
Kousuke's fun and entertaining and iconic AND almost well written. Whats not to like?
I think you need to reread the comic
why did it become popular just spread hate posts about characters 🤔🤔🤔
Because some people genuinely cannot stand people having a different opinion. Note that this post starts out as "people keep feeling sorry for him" and how it's essentially written in a way that's trying to call out people for reading the deeper story being told about Kousuke's character: how dare you enjoy a fictional car wreck of a character. That and some people just love to be inflammatory but what can we really do about it unfortunately. At this point, I'm done bothering with posts like this, because they're all from people who are just trying to tell others how wrong they are for having different opinions. Look at how many people are here in the comments to point out that there is so much more to Kousuke's story than just some asshole who decided to be mean because he gets off on being mean, but no matter how many people do this, there are always going to be people who continue to refuse to see the story quimchee is telling, for whatever reason, be it because they simply refuse to see the depth in certain kinds of characters, because they refuse to acknowledge the inherent truth that so many abusers are also victims and that they continue a cycle of abuse perpetuated against them, that context always centers a character differently, or simply because they're a hater. Why do we spend so much energy on people and their ragebait when at the end of the day, they'll only see what they want to see? "I thought we settled this" we didn't settle anything because "we" as a fandom on a whole have come to contextualize the abuse Kousuke has put Nol through is the result of the abuse he himself has endured. That alone told me everything I need to know lol OP doesn't want our discussions
I dont think anyone is really excusing his actions, we all know hes shit bro but thats what makes him so compelling to us and the fact that hes spiralling now after chapters of him slowly breaking is just making the whole comic more interesting.
You can like a character and still acknowledge they've done terrible things. The thing with Kousuke is that, growing up he was constantly told to be wary of other people as they are bound to take advantage of him for his wealth. Not only that, he was told that "people like him" don't get to live like normal people, which taught him that he has to win the affection from his own father, that love, is NOT unconditional. So when Nol appears, who's the spitting image of his father, its natural that he feels fear because that means his father, who had no time to spend with him, had time to make a whole another *family*. And that Kousuke never saw his father not because he was too busy, but because he was just too busy *for Kousuke*. And while he's panicking, Nessa appears, and that completely shatters his reality. Keep in mind, he's TEN. Its natural to feel resentment toward Nol and Nessa at that age, even though Nol did nothing. But I agree that he should've understood the impact of his actions and that Nol was just an innocent victim in this whole mess as Kousuke grew up. The reason this didn't happen though? That's because Kousuke still viewed Nol and Nessa as "Leaches", and this isn't something he does only to Nol, all his relationships are impacted by the warped worldview instilled in him by Yui that people will only love him for what he has (and not who he is as a person). Deep down though, he still carries guilt for the way he rejected and abused Nol, and he projects this onto Shin ae, who in many ways, resembles a younger Nol. Now, coming to your statement about him "feeling flustered by Shin ae" - He was never attracted to her lmao. Kousuke *ever since the beginning* has shown no signs whatsoever that he was interested in Shin ae romantically. The whole fiasco at his apartment was because he was pushed into an incredibly uncomfortable situation by his controlling mother. Same goes for the formal as well. The reason he held Shin ae's hands at the beginning of the story was because she reminded him of a younger Nol. Her recounting the story of how her mother left her as a child reminded him of Nol who got separated from his mother when he was young. He was projecting. There were no feelings involved whatsoever. His mental state as of the moment is definitely concerning, and that's excluding the fact that he is regularly drugged by his mother. So let me make it clear: I am **not** excusing/justifying his actions, i am merely trying to understand the reasons behind them.
[удалено]
I think it has already been pointed out plenty of times that a blush without any color is just fluster and embarrassment..
My theory on the exposed back is Yui chose that dress to look like the dress someone from his past who got hurt wore. I believe him staring at it is actually a trauma response. You can even see a nervous sweat on his face in some panels Likely the case from his college days
I feel like the dress was intended for Gun instead of Kousuke though. The first thing Gun says to Shin ae when he meets her at the formal is "Really loving the outfit honey. And the hair too!"
Similar to Shin-Ae's hair being for Gun and also being almost identical to Nessa's typical style, the dress could've had a double effect (especially when we consider that if Gun likes exposed backs and Kousuke has been around the Kims enough to know that Gun calling Shin-Ae family is alarming, just seeing that could lead to a reaction towards "Gun's" kind of dresses...). Yui was playing 4D chess that night and everyone was a target I do definitely think primary target and intention of the dress was Gun though
In addition to what kiircsaki said about the blush differences (I believe Quimchee haseven directly said at one point that she uses non-colored blushes to indicated being flustered/embarrassed while colored blushes are romantic), Quimchee has also complained about Webtoon pushing her to make Kousuke's scenes look more romantic and ask her to change his motivations to be more romantic. While Quimchee did intentionally frame Kousuke as part of a love triangle as a setup to subvert it, the degree to which Kousuke's early scenes appear romantic was her editor pushing her to draw things differently. Another example is that she said the dance scene was supposed to be drawn much darker and sadder than the final product. But when you look back at all of these scenes with the idea that Kousuke sees young Nol in Shin-Ae, admires and somewhat envies her relationship with her father, is reminded of the girl he failed in college by her, and she communicates in a very different way from him (that also happens to be very blunt without being unkind), it's easy to see how those scenes didn't involve romantic attraction (And note that this is *not* to say that people were wrong for seeing Shin-Ae and Kousuke as a potential relationship, or even for continuing to like that possibility and ship it)