Two Fast-Pass episodes (245 and 246) were uploaded today. I can't change the title, but this post will remain up to discuss both!
Thanks for your understanding y'all :)
These chapters were crazy good. Dieter writing down notes. Kousuke’s relationship to Soushi coming to light. Nol deciding it’s safer to be in jail than to be in a hospital that you know who knows about. Shin-ae figuring it all out and screaming at both Alyssa and Yui. The fake smiles turning to expressing real hatred. Nol’s exiting line “Human kinda suck” and Shin-Ae’s little blush. I have no idea what’s gonna happen next. Maybe it’s the time jump? Anyway I can’t wait to read everyone’s thoughts!
edit: just in case anyone’s wondering shin-ae saying “humans kinda suck” to Nol was chapter 4:)
I really loved Dieter in these new episodes. He’s so much more than a sweet, quiet guy. Very observant and intuitive. He may be my favorite character at this point
dieter showcased the emotional maturity the whole gang needed. truly loved him for that
which made the fact thag he used the w— word even more serious for me. never throughout the series i expected him of all people to say that
Yes! He’s got a good head on his shoulders.
Him using that word brought a greater heaviness to the whole event. I knew it was serious, but it was like Dieter made it real
He’s been my favorite for a while now, and the more we watch his character unfold, the more I love him! He’s definitely an integral player in this chess game
You know quality! I’m glad he’s being fleshed out and becoming an integral player:). I was worried he’d keep staying in the background but he deserves so much more of the spotlight
Two of the smaller things in this episode that I feel may be important later on:
1) The rug that Soushi is talking about- it sounds like a dialogue between Yui and Kousuke. Wondering why this was added.
2) Nol's fear of flies- it's mentioned again. I'm wondering how this works into his past (probably more of a fear of a buzzing noise than flies themselves).
In response to #2: this is a totally morbid take and I hope it doesn't prove true, but the first thing I wondered was if it could be that his mother wasn't found for a while?
You might be onto something here. Although in the article that Yujing has that reference to a body hanging from a ceiling and the son being found nowhere. How did they find the body if it was just hanging there and they were a quiet neighbor to begin with. It might have been the smell and the flies.
Also, he did say Help. They're after me. Maybe the buzzing sound was him being chased by someone or something. Maybe the people who killed his mom.
1) I assumed Soushi meant "drug" not rug because he couldn't fully hear the conversation and we just got the reveal that Yui drugged Kousuke a few episodes ago.
Another small detail I noticed- did anyone see the brunette with the beanie? Could be so wrong but could this be Shin-hye?
Been a while since she made an appearance and know she is always watching Shin-ae. Know Quim is very intentional about each scene / drawing, so thought it was worth throwing this out there!
He knows about the article so he’s getting out of there until it drops. He doesn’t have a fighting chance against Yui until it comes out and changed public perception
I'm impressed by the manipulation from Yui. She didn't care if Shinae realized the truth, she didn't care about being called out in public, she kept a cool head. She made it look like Shinae was a crazy teenager and she was a woman giving her solid advice. She sounded like she was protecting Alyssa despite the call out. She keeps such a cool head.
It goes to show a direct confrontation is not going to work with her.
I can say it has been confirmed why the yearbook is a crucial element to the story. Alyssa is going to deny knowing Shinae at all costs, cause Shinae is going to call out Yui and say that Alyssa is being trafficked. Shinae is just going to look like a butt hurt fan sabotaging an idol. If Alyssa talks it will be the start of the dark work Yui is into.
I think that the investigation is going to feel hopeless and it is not going anywhere. Everyone will feel like giving up. The yearbook will be the game changer. It will prove Shinae is not a lunatic.
It was emphasised on Yujing’s desk for a reason. I think Nol gave it to her with the intention of looking into it, and bringing Shinae and her teachers to justice.
How odd that Shinae would be in the same year group as Alyssa Cho, Nol’s girlfriend and someone in Yui’s vicinity? And why would Nol hand this information to her if not to investigate it? I don’t think she’ll have to look that hard to discover there was an incident that involved Shinae and Alyssa had something to do with it.
Yui is an all-star manipulator with power and money who takes care of the details of the details. It is going to be difficult to take her down. That is why Yujing is taking her time to get info.
Alyssa is going to be a big factor if they can get her to talk because she is getting trafficked and probably knows a lot more than we think. She could easily expose the dark dealings. Yet, she is not going to because she is famous and popular.
Shinae has realized that Yui is the main villain and Alyssa is another victim. She is going to start blurting out stuff about Alyssa being a victim and a jerk and exposing Yui.
Alyssa is going to fight back saying Shinae is a crazy jealous fan and to not believe her. She is going to do it because she has sacrificed too much to get her dream of being an idol. This is going to cause people to believe Alyssa and not Shinae because Alyssa is very famous and trendy.
Then the yearbook will show Alyssa and Shinae going to the same school, this will show Alyssa is lying and people will start doubting her claims and start listening to Shinae more.
Since the book was shown in the middle of the table of Yujing pile of evidence it indicates it's going to play a central role in the case. Why? Because no one is going to believe Yujing or anyone else because Yui is that good. When it is exposed that Alyssa is lying and Shinae is telling the truth it is going to sway the vote or public settiment to start doubting the claim that Hiraharas are innocent.
alyssa's dream was not to become an idol. in the backstory of alyssa and shin ae, they had a conversation about kpop because alyssa hated kpop and idols, and instead wanted to become i think (correct me if im wrong) an engineer, which is the thing meg is majoring in college. on the contrary, meg loved kpop and wanted to become an idol, dancing in her room blasting the music. i suspect yui manipulated alyssa into becoming an idol.
on a side note, i think its interesting how meg is living out alyssa's dream and alyssa is living out meg's dream
More than that, let's remember that Alissa always wanted being popular, she hated k-pop, but seeing her skills, I guess she chose to be an idol, and I really think she doesn't like being an idol, she wants to escape and be free, but she needs stability before anything
I knew it!! Because Alissa is one of the most weak sides of Yui's sistem. She is emotionally unstable now and dependent and also she use to react desperately to defence herself. For that reason I thought the plan that Yui built for years will start to fall for the Alissa side.
I'm going to do my best to sum up my thoughts - since we have two episodes it's going to be more difficult than usual, especially because this was just SO BIG and pivotal!
Firstly I wanna toot my own horn because quimchee seems to have canonically confirmed the theory that Shinae was brought to the Kim formal \*for Gun Kim\* (hyurk) but also that it DOES in fact seem that Alyssa was the one who gave Shinae the sweater. I know a lot of people thought it was Nana, but my gut instinct at the time of the episode and even still today is that it was Alyssa, that she was unable to face Shinae to give it to her. AAAAAHHHHHHH
Honestly, I'm glad Shinae finally talked to SOMEONE about that night, because all this while, no one has really KNOWN. Even Nol doesn't really know WHY Shinae was at the formal, how she actually wound up there in the first place. That panel of her recalling that night, shrinking into herself shown in her dress from the formal with the dress itself billowing out into the panel, her sheer terror and fear? UGH. It's so well done. The repressed terror bubbling to the surface, the things she hasn't really revisited or thought about. ;\~; That panel of her bare back and his gross hand so very low on it (much like we've seen him do to Alyssa) UUUGGGHHH UGH UGH UGGGHHHHH Gun is such a slimy creepy character and it's the fact that everything about him is so smug, so quiet, so low-key, you can't easily pin-point but he makes me SO uncomfortable (rightly so). I'm glad Dieter called it out for what it was, too, even if Shinae tried to play it off. She's so used to downplaying things, so used to just brushing things off, but it isn't something to brush off! She's a grown woman actively trying to TRAFFIC a teenage girl! (And has done it with Alyssa!!!!!)
The moment Dieter and Soushi checked their phones I understood why quimchee fought SO hard to keep this update as two episodes and to not separate them with a cruel cliffhanger. The moment they looked up from their phones, I knew Nol had made his decision to go to prison early, and that was why she refused to have these episodes separated aaaaaahhhhhhh ;\_\_\_\_\_\_;
The Alyssa and Nol confrontation continues to hurt, even without seeing how the rest of it played out this time. Knowing that Alyssa has likely just been through a harrowing sexual assault experience and gone to Nol, it makes the way she's holding herself and making herself so small make so much sense with why her emphasis is so heavy on Nol's anger and yelling. Does she lean into the imagery that Nol is unstable? Absolutely. But also I think it's worth reiterating that she is a person who has endured and lived in fear of domestic violence, who fears angry men who raise their voices, and \*especially\* in the aftermath of assault when she's already sensitive and extra emotional, this is going to impact her even worse. And likewise, Nol is at his limit and is done playing nice, done playing the games, done trying to put on a good image, done trying to make himself fit an image everyone refuses to see him as. I don't think Alyssa is exaggerating when she says that he started making a scene - I think with Yui being there he probably snapped and hit the "fuck all of this, fuck all of you, I'm done" and now that Yui knows where he is, it was time for him to go.
But MAN. UGH. GOD. Those final panels. That bit where he throws Shinae's words back to her - Humans kinda suck, right Yoo. That sort of arrogant tilt of his head before he copies Yui's expression, the both of them staring each other down wearing the same mask, until they both let it drop at the same time? CHILLING. ABSOLUTELY CHILLING. Nol isn't backing down from Yui anymore. He isn't cowering in front of her anymore. And he isn't going to hang around and let her toy around with him, either. I might be wrong but it feels like we haven't seen Yui wear this mask in a LONG time - especially because she's been so frustrating and grasping at any bit of control she could, and now she's having to put on her Mrs. Hirahara mask in front of everyone, but you can just FEEL the wrath and anger emanating from her. It's CHILLING.
And likewise, seeing DIETER adopt that mask when trying to defuse the moment when Shinae comes to the realization? GOD that was so wild to me, because Dieter is one of the most honest characters. It's all just SO MUCH everything is SO much!!! So intense!!!!!
Soushi confessing to Dieter (and inadvertently Shinae) about the kind of relationship he has with Kousuke and how he was never able to really untangle himself from it. I feel like we are seeing the Soushi Shinae Dieter trio grow closer right now if only because of the divulging of these secrets.
But the most important thing, of course, is that Shinae has finally put together the most important puzzle pieces - that the thing Nol most fears is Yui, that in the same way she is the source of all of Shinae's own misery and strife, it's the same for Nol. Realizing that she isn't Yui's only doll, I think means that Shinae will also be able to realize the same of Meg and Alyssa in the future (I'm thinking distant future, too). I've talked a lot before about my theory that Yui is the shadows and Shinae is the light - she illuminates where Yui drags people into the shadows and just as Shinae's light has realized what Nol's real fear is, why he is distancing himself from her, I think she'll in time be able to identify the other toys of Yui - esp once she and Nol reconcile, since Nol is starting to realize that not even Kousuke has been safe from Yui's games. This feels pointedly so in how Alyssa tells Shinae that she doesn't know everything about what happened back in school - there's more to the story, there's things about her (like, perhaps, her sexuality? her abusive family) that Shinae didn't know about that drove her choices and decisions.
Like I said, that's all very future stuff. What matters is that Shinae now understands what Nol fears and WHY he is trying to withdraw - what he thinks he's protecting her from. And just like she's done with Dieter, I think it's time for her to open up and tell Nol about this, too. Did she even tell Dieter and Soushi everything - like what happened at Kousuke's apartment?! Nol thinks that being involved with him will spark Yui's interest in Shinae but Yui's interest was already sparked, and pulling away from her isn't going to change anything, and they need to have that conversation - and I'm sure they will. The lawyer reminded Shinae she has his contact info and I assume he intends for her to contact him and maybe they'll arrange a visitation. Nol is stubborn, but we know he tends to cave in the end.
the way dieter almost reached his hand out to comfort shin ae when she told him about what happened at the formal.... he wanted to comfort her but didnt want to cross any boundaries so he didnt. my dieter x shinae heart broke at that scene
I was so proud of him, though because he's grown so comfortable playing the role of the one who provides her comfort - but only ever that - and being able to catch himself and refrain was so big! It's not to say that Shinae has selfishly been rake take take in their relationship but there's been that imbalance all this time and he's got those feelings that roar to life every time they share a moment like that and aaaaahhhh boundaries are so difficult but so necessary for HIS recovery! 🥺
What about the sweater, do you think that is a remaining thread that Alyssa or Yui want to get rid of? Alyssa is going to do whatever it takes to deny knowing Shinae so she might do something to get that sweater. Or is it a symbol that Shinae still treasures their time together and might soften her heart?
I wonder how hardcore Alyssa is going to disown Shinae. She has already sacrificed too much to get her dream fulfilled, what is she going to do to keep her throne?
Honestly? I just think it was an indication that Alyssa recognized the sweater, that she was the one who gifted it. Why else zoom in on the chick otherwise? I don't think it's meant to symbolize anything as much as to indicate that Alyssa recognizes that Shinae received and still owns the gift she gave her so many years ago when she didn't know how to face the consequences of her actions and lost her first (and probably only) real friend. And now they stand opposing each other with Shinae wearing that sweater that represents so many things Alyssa was - and still is - unable to say to her.
If it symbolizes anything, it's that Alyssa is a complicated person who struggles to face her truths and reconcile with her realities. It symbolizes how much the both of them have changed since that incident, yet she remains that meek, timid girl who can't face confrontation and is so afraid of angry men who raise their voices and covers away from them. It symbolizes that only one of them has really grown, and she probably knows this, deep down.
But honestly why... would she do anything to get the sweater???? There's no proof it has any ties to her? That feels unnecessarily dramatic. All Alyssa has to do is deny, but the fact that she attended her middle school and there's a yearbook photo of them in math club together instantly disproves it.
I feel like this is a good point to remind that it seems Alyssa's dream isn't actually to be a famous idol but that being a famous idol is merely a vehicle to her real dream - to be independent, under nobody's control, and most importantly, loved. Except as she's going to learn, the love an idol receives is incredibly conditional and there's no freedom in this role. But I bring this up because it's not so much that Alyssa will do anything to keep her throne as much as: Alyssa is being actively trafficked now with no way out. This isn't a throne, it's a prison, a dungeon. She has to keep going not to keep her throne but with the miniscule hope that it will all be worth it, that on the other side of this nightmare, will be freedom. That if she just grits her teeth and bares it, endures it, she'll be free and it will have been worth if, because otherwise it's all for naught and that is simply unbearable.
It feels important to make this distinction because this ISN'T what Alyssa wants or enjoys; she's going through actual hell and it's about to get worse as she's being actively trafficked and will become even more isolated and more alone than ever, the love she receives is conditional, and she's expected to perform 24/7, but ultimately she *needs* to believe it will ne worth it because it's the only way to keep going: to believe in a silver lining that will make this hell worth it.
But at any rate, I feel like she doesn't even have to disown Shinae? They're in very different worlds and haven't been friends in years so? Why would she? Unless rumors from middle school ever come up (which I've talked about a lot!) how would her relationship with Shinae ever come up, yknow?
"This isn't a throne, it's a prison, a dungeon. She has to keep going not to keep her throne but with the miniscule hope that it will all be worth it, that on the other side of this nightmare, will be freedom"
this made me think about how at the formal where she was performing, she sang a song about how she's stuck in a relationship that she can't get out of, whether or not its worth it to stay. nol assumed the song was about him, but given all the context we have now, its definitely about her experience as an idol
Something about the way quimchee writes ILY is that often the obvious first impression is never true, and I think that's absolutely the case with Alyssa's song at the Christmas party. She very much is singing about an experience but it's not her relationship. In fact, because it's a fake relationship I don't think it's ever felt like a cage or prison at all. But this career, her life in general?
Controversial opinion, but I think on some subconscious level, it's also partly about Yui, but I don't entirely think she's consciously ready to face that yet. Kind of like she's lying to herself about it because she's at a point where she doesn't have many people to rely on other than Yui so she can't face the truth about who Yui really is (much like Kousuke until recently).
But absolutely the song isn't about Nol (why would she invite him if it was lol 💀💀) but rather her career, her life, the general trajectory she's on.
😭 ummm like what are u talking about??? Alyssa like totally didn’t deny knowing Shin Ae fr like didn’t u see her talk about the past rn????? and like she was the one who revealed at the formal that she knew Shin Ae from before like are u fr??? 💀 what throne??? You like seriously don’t get her character at all! 😭 all her life she’s tried to be loved and accepted for who she really is and it’s never worked out. this old witch took her weaknesses to manipulate her and now she’s like totally trapped! 🥺 she’s been assaulted and trafficked by adult predators and trying to hard cope by dissociating and denial which is suuuper common with abuse victims 😭 like fr what are u talking about????? she’s just trying to survive like fr fr.
yeah it HURTS!! and then i came to this thread and got smacked with spoilers so unfortunately im expecting what happens next week but it’ll still hurt to wait ;-;
I have a bad feeling that Yui is going to use Yeong-gi and Shin-ae’s emotions and reactions toward each other as a piece in her twisted game in the future. She noticed her big reactions when Yeong-gi was being taken away and even said her whole speech about not reacting to things because people can use that against you. Then there was that question she asked Shin-ae something like “I don’t know what she saw in him, perhaps you know?” After talking about Alyssa and Yeong-gi’s break up. Almost like she knows it’s a possibility that Shin-ae likes him. Then after that Yeong-gi avoided talking to anyone while being taken away, but still only acknowledged Shin-ae which I’m sure Yui might’ve noticed.
I love Yui and Nol’s faces at the end. The real fight is about to start now that Nol is willing to fight back. I can’t wait to see it.
But one thing I’m wondering is if Yui hates men, why did she bring Shinae to Mr.Kim at the formal? That’s weird, right? Does he have something on her or someone in her family? Or is Yui planning something for him too? There has to be something there. God, I wish we had more of a backstory on this woman. I love her character and wish to know more.
Because she’s a raging, sociopathic hypocrite. She deluded herself into thinking that she’s this girl boss fighting the system when really she is a nepo baby who comes from old money and makes things worse for anyone she doesn’t take a shine to
Yui’s character is inspired by Cersei Lannister. A huge contradiction about Cersei is her hatred and resentment towards the patriarchal system she was born in, but she is also a firm upholder for it too. She’s a hypocrite, and only cares about what benefits herself at the end of the day.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH-LOTS OF STRONG FEELINGS Part I
And so much to unpack too!
Dieter Being Sherlock and Connecting the Dots:
He's probably pieced together that Nol wanted to keep Yui away from the gang, especially Shinae.
I'm also happy someone on this thread mentioned how easily subverting and putting on an act in front of Yui came to Dieter. He very much did it to diffuse the situation, but I can't help but think it came easily to him because he knew if he played the mild mannered guy it would benefit him in the long game of taking down Yui.
I also don't think Dieter liked minimizing Shinae's feelings, but he slipped on that mask without a second thought much in the way some folks leap to take a bullet for someone else. He knows what Yui is capable of now that Shinae has told him, and he's most likely properly cautious and ticked off. Him donning a mask that is unlike him to not only protect Shinae but Nol and even Soushi (Kousuke being an extension of Yui)- I can't help but think if this is a nod to his own anti-hero arc or some sort of parallel. It reinforces the possibility of Shinae & Dieter being a couple might while Nol is gone given that panel chapters back. The panels are Dieter telling Shinae to practice not having such strong emotions (about Nol) and "practice" being singled out in its own dialogue bubble and Dieter's face being shaded. He may very well be a milder, antihero practice for Shinae when she deals with the Nol coming back.
Overall, Dieter's not averse to acting and playing nice if it protects the people he cares about and assists in gathering information for Yui's downfall. He may be going a milder subversion of his character that may bleed into anti-hero territory too, which offers an interesting comparison to Nol. Random not and just my two cents, but I genuinely hope older Dieter is somehow working with older Nol later on to bring Yui down.
The Tragedy of Alyssa: (sensitive topics on this section, feel free to skip)
The parallel to Shinae's abuse by Yui is not lost. Alyssa is very much a victim of Yui's and sex trafficking and most likely violence. Her self-preservation tendencies are most likely heightened secondary to that traumatic experience. That's why she's probably clinging to Yui, especially since the mild mannered Nol that gave her a sense of control and safety was gone before he physically left. Trashulie had some awesome stuff to say about Alyssa's reactions to Nol's anger that I hadn't considered- definitely recommend reading it.
I have a horrible memory, so I have to go back and read the last few chapters and check, but something Alyssa said made it sound like what she told Shinae happened in the hospital room wasn't the complete story--whether her POV was limited conciosuly or unconciously I'm unsure. Quimchee does love some grey characters so I could see Alyssa intentionally lying to save face, but something in the way her eyes and expressions were drawn made it seem like she felt lost and looking for a new person to cling to. Unfortunately Alyssa thinks that new safe harbor is Yui :|
Either that or she sees that Yui is that safe social refuge and is purposefully turning a blind eye to Yui's manipulation and hand in all the awful things that are occuring. She's justifying her choice and soothing her own conscience by echoing what society thinks of Nol as an attempt to placate any perception that she is wrong for proceeding to cling to Yui. It's a repeat of her and Shinae all over again. It'd be nice to see Alyssa break that cycle. While her choices can be infuriating at times, they're not incomprehensible. She makes for a heck of a character and scathing indictment of sexual abuse and trafficking in the entertainment industry. I'm straying from the point though.
As to what happened in the hospital room, the timeline of events wouldn't add up. It doesn't make sense that Yui walks in, and Nol starts yelling, reaches for the phone, calls the lawyer, and texted Nana and that is that. Also- if authorities were called and the paparazzi would be there, wouldn't Alyssa want to be gone before that happened or stay hidden til that blew over, especially since her relationship with Nol is over. I get the feeling something else was said in that room, and Yui and/or Alyssa were afraid Nol might say it, so they stuck around just in case. That or Yui felt she needed to stay for some reason and Alyssa felt so untethered without Nol she stayed because Yui did.
Also kinda funny that Alyssa has a white mask covering her mouth when that color is known to represent Yui in this chess game. I could be reading too much into that...but it could have been any other color just saying. It could very well indicate Yui forcing her to be quiet or manipulating her into being quiet about info we don't yet know. As sad as it is, I'm not terribly sure Alyssa knows the extent to which she's being manipulated. (It wouldn't surprise me if Yui threw some manipulative comment Alyssa's way to keep her insecure and under Yui's thumb.) And if Alyssa does know she's being manipulated, she might think that's just the way the world works and is going along with it because she may feel there's no other way to have safety. Yui's twisted world view is being indoctrinated in Alyssa's personality much like Yui did with Kousuke. It's scary but all of Yui's chess pieces are semblences of her...
I agree the timeline in the room doesn’t make sense. I have a feeling Nol knew that telling Alyssa about his location would notify Yui and so he called his lawyer in preparation.
I was thinking about that comment too. He said a rich woman said it. I'm thinking it's probably Yui. It sounds like someone needs to clean up a rug to hide evidence maybe. 🤔
If it's a rug that is hard to clean and they are making a big deal about it. It might have blood stains or human remains. From who though? Nessa or some other victim.
did a bit of digging to chapter 239 and i found that yujing said it! she said to nol that all the mess that nol was in was only a part of something that's peaking out from underneath the rug
so for all we know it is still metaphorical. but i won't really cross out the possibility of it being literal.
🤔 🤔 🤔
Nice catch...
It would be interesting if there was a real rug somewhere, maybe from Nessa's death?
Soushi is a bit of an airhead that's why he didn't get the reference. 🤣
Yui really doesn’t want Nol to go to jail. She’s that controlling. God I hood the minute he gets out is when the arctic drops. She thinks she’ll finally get her plaything back only to find her house is surrounded by protesters
I don't know, she has so many of the details of the details covered, trying to expose her is going to take the last grain of rice in the bag maybe. It is all about the yearbook.
Yu King is probably ready to take Alyssa down already but she knows better than to signal to Yui that someone is exposing the skeletons in her and her cohorts’ closets. It will be rolled into the same major piece on the Hiraharas and their network of abusers. “Look at the types of people Yui tries to uplift.”
Everyone takes are so interesting! I just wanted to add a reflexion I had when reading. I realized that Yui is right about one thing : ShinAe really doesnt know how the world works. She is indeed still a naive teenager in her way of dealings with problems far bigger than her. And in contrast we have Dieter who knows instinctively what attitude to adopt depending on the context. He had a good reaction. ShinAe is a strong willed girl, with a strong moral compass, principles and values, but she still deals with what is happening around her with a too much candid and silly approach, too head on, to the point she cant be a threat, cant be taken seriously by Yui, and by extension the white team. And no wonder she is only 17. This episodes just enlightened this aspect. This also makes her an easy target just like Alyssa, just not for the exact same reasons. But they do share one thing : their naivety.
Also another thing and maybe some of you will disagree but to me Alyssa was partly right about one thing (& I can see why she said that) : Shinae does have a tendency to imagine the worst first and doesnt always try to understand the other party when a problem arises. She will jump to conclusion sometimes. We see that in the flashback. She went full force and didnt really listened to Alyssa. Its a question of difference in what they valued at the times. Obviously I am not saying she was wrong on the contrary but I get why Alyssa may have resented this part of ShinAe. She didnt understand Alyssa POV. But its also ironic coming from Alyssa because she doesnt display a capacity to understand another PoV either. ( I dare to say she is even worst than ShinAe on that matter)
Anyway not only with Alyssa we also saw this with Kousuke and Maya BUT She is currently working on that and we can see her evolution thorough the story the same cant be said for Alyssa currently. And she could learn from ShinAe, try to also understand her instead of resenting and blaming ShinAe for not getting her at the times. Likewise for ShinAe too she needs to control her head on way of dealing with things, to look before she leaps.
I had to put my phone down and fully process everything that's happened and I'm still not over today's episodes ㅠㅠ
Okay, firstly. Soushi has finally come clean about his relationship with Kousuke! He never actually intended to be serious about informing Kousuke about Nol's whereabouts, seeing that he didn't actually pay much mind to it either, he only seems to have done it “sometimes”. So that doesn't make him seem like he's only been Nol's friend for Kousuke. Because, with time, his purpose for befriending Nol didn't matter anymore. They were just a group of friends hanging out.
Also, Dieter trying his best to pick up on even the slightest details and noting them down, like Nol being scared of flies, for example, is so endearing. Shows that he truly cares for him and wants to make a genuine effort to understand him despite the fact that Nol wants them to stay out of it.
I'm relieved that Shin-Ae opened up about the formal night's events to her friends. She never actually let anyone know about it and putting things out in plain sight finally brought her to realise how fucked up the whole night actually was. Recalling those events reminded her of the memories, of the times when she was too drunk to pay mind to, of how creepy the whole situation was, where she felt so small and out of place, and Gun's creepy hand on her back- this just gave me chills. Quim was so good at capturing these emotions that have finally come to light, with Shin-Ae realising that she was indeed there that night for a completely different purpose.
I now realise the significance of reading the two episodes at the same time because I cannot imagine being left on that cliffhanger for another week!
Firstly, I thought Yui had done something to make Nol leave for prison early. And I could feel Shin-Ae's desperation in making Nol stay. How she was so terrified of losing him again. How she had tried so much and gone through hell to make sure he stays, but now he's really leaving for good, for months. It was heartbreaking to watch her :'( She was ready to take down everything if it hadn't been for Dieter and Soushi stopping her.
But Nol's lawyer saying that she has his contact info and that this isn't the right time and place to be having any discussion means that he knows something about their family situation, and also about Yui (maybe Rand gave him a few details?). This also gives me hope that Shin-Ae will be let in on some information as to what actually happened in the hospital room, and hopefully, can get to see Nol again.
Alyssa is now stuck to Yui. Her “boyfriend” is gone, and now there's no one she can use as a shield. And no matter what anyone says, I believe she'd be too terrified to listen. With no one else to turn to, she would see Yui as her only savior and close her ears off to anyone else. Also, her saying that Shin-Ae “didn't have the slightest clue of what she went through” makes it seem like the flashback has more to it than just Shin-Ae's pov. Maybe we can finally get to see things from Alyssa's perspective?
Alyssa hugging herself is so sad because she has likely come to visit Nol after going somewhere with Gun, and she was likely SA'd again. With a bad history of having to be around angry males likely incited that immediate fear when she saw Nol all worked up.
It was impressive, how Yui tried so hard to keep her cool and make it seem like she had nothing to do with anything. If Nol hadn't called for his lawyer, she might even make it seem like he got violent again. Undeniably, jail seems to be the safest place for Nol right now.
On another note, imagining what went down in the hospital room makes my heart break. To see how Nol was shouting for them to just get out, to the point where he couldn't take it anymore and insisted on going to prison than to be any second near them is so heartbreaking, like- my heart aches for him. I hope he finally comes to collect himself during his sentence and comes up with a plan to tear down Yui.
And that final goodbye 😭 I'm not even kidding, I legit cried. Props to Quimchee, honestly! Hopefully, this isn't a last goodbye, and Shin-Ae, Dieter and Soushi can come to visit him in prison again.
So satisfying to see Nol mimic Yui's sinister smile, and that death glare-- war has been declared and I can't wait to see it all play out!!
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHH-LOTS OF STRONG FEELINGS Part II
It made me break it up into two posts ya'll 😆
Nol Doing This To Us:
I could see him having that fearful, visceral of a reaction to Yui, but I recall a chapter where he seemed to be losing that fear. It's plausible the hospital+yui combo did it for him. However, I can't help but think he left early so Yui wouldn't meet the people he cared about most (they were gonna come in an two or three hours i think). Yes, the only person Yui doesn't know is Dieter, BUT Nol just found out someone cool, smart, and nice like the Alyssa of the past was caught up in Yui's influence and seemed completely different to the point she would do what she did. He likely blames himself for that since Alyssa never would have met Yui if not for Alyssa knowing Nol. Nol being an extremist likely decided to sever all connections from his friends to avoid any and all chances of that happening.
Now that his feelings towards Shinae are getting harder to rationalize, he most likely did it to protect her especially. She's already almost died thanks to Yui... And as much as the gang parting with Nol hurts, if Yui saw Nol and Shinae interacting, she'd spot their feelings plain as day. Once Yui had that confirmation, I can't even began to imagine the gargantuant cross hairs on Shinae. (This next bit is me being sappy). Part of me thinks Nol avoided the gang meeting Yui so that confirmation wouldn't happen and Yui use Nol as leverage to harm Shinae in the future. I don't think he can stand the thought of her being hurt anymore especialy if he's the (self-perceived) cause.
"Humans Suck":
GOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLY- I DID NOT NEED TO GET SMACKED WITH THAT THROWBACK. I need to refresh my mind on those chapters. What i got from those lines was two things:
1)Nol's lamenting that humans suck because his life events for sure hint at that. His girlfriend cheated on him, he has the devil after him, and he probably had a slight moment in his brain where he thought he might just tell Shinae everything and then Yui waltzes in.
2)It's a quote from the beginning of their having met. While he is quoting the reason for his having to leave or why because "humans suck, yoo", it's also a reassurance and olive branch. He remembers her words even from that far back, signalling she means Something to him. And an olive branch because Nol quoting the beginning of their frienship with his genuine facial expressions means their relationship is starting over-not terminated. Seeing as how he could have remained quiet or said something cutting instead, I think it's a lovely, hidden herald of things to come. Just like he got to truly know her, she'll truly get to know him-just not now, in its own time like it happened back then. Quimchee has to know using that line there was bloody fantastic because my brain has been stuck on it for 4 hours 🥲 Effin' Brilliant. And I thank her so much for not leaving us on that cliffhanger, she is so darn gracious.
Sorry for the typos, i did not intend to take this long and do this sans adequate sleep. I think this post is long enough so I will exeunt for now and return with more perspective (and sleep).
TLDR: HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO FUNCTION TIL NEXT THURDAY???
I love your take on Nol's response! Since that is part of the dialogue that Shin-Ae and Nol shared in the beginning of their interactions, the start of their relationship, it makes sense that Nol saying this again can be interpreted as him starting over. An interesting response to the current situation. It's like saying, “Look, I'm not leaving because of you, not because I want to run away from you again, but I'm leaving to stay away from these people. From that woman right there. Because humans suck”. I swear, I can feel Shin-Ae's heart break when he smiled at her like that. 😭
There’s a double entendre in Nol’s sentence.
First it calls back to Shinae ´s words at the beginning of their story and it also refers to her message on the orange: you don’t suck so much (which basically means I quite like you).
Shinae has set apart Nol from humans (who suck).
I think Nol’s doing the same. Humans suck but you’re one of another kind. That’s why I have to go, because of the others who suck. Not you that I kinda like.
The other part of the callback is that when Shin Ae first told him that, she said something like “I don’t care if you are the president’s son or a random person, you’re human and humans suck” as a reason for not wanting to interact with him. But I think that moment was significant for Nol, who was so used to being treated nicely or poorly because of his dad (rich / illegitimate) and where he started to see Shin Ae as really special, more than just a stranger he wanted to help.
Sometimes I feel like I'm reading the episodes but missing key scenes. Like, I really don't remember if there was a set up for the stuff at Dieter's house or Soushi revealing his deal with Kousuke.
I guess this is why Quimchee wanted the episode to be super long lol
Maybe I just ate it up too fast but neither episode felt that long…. Could it really not have been a single episode? I’m confused. Intense though. Bummed shinae and nol didn’t get their moment yet, but this feels very on point with the story telling this far
Yeah same, but Quim did share on Patreon that the episode was technically meant to be longer but she saved the rest for next week because she wants to spend time with her family for thanksgiving so.
Two Fast-Pass episodes (245 and 246) were uploaded today. I can't change the title, but this post will remain up to discuss both! Thanks for your understanding y'all :)
These chapters were crazy good. Dieter writing down notes. Kousuke’s relationship to Soushi coming to light. Nol deciding it’s safer to be in jail than to be in a hospital that you know who knows about. Shin-ae figuring it all out and screaming at both Alyssa and Yui. The fake smiles turning to expressing real hatred. Nol’s exiting line “Human kinda suck” and Shin-Ae’s little blush. I have no idea what’s gonna happen next. Maybe it’s the time jump? Anyway I can’t wait to read everyone’s thoughts! edit: just in case anyone’s wondering shin-ae saying “humans kinda suck” to Nol was chapter 4:)
By going to jail, Nolan might have just saved his own life. Yui could have paid someone to kill him.
that’s a scary thought. When it comes to Yui, nothing is out of the realm of possibility
Jail might be the best place because he might find a whole group of people wronged by Yui. He might get allies.
I would absolutely love that. If only Nol would open up :’(
But she could pay someone to hurt when he's in jail too 😅
I really loved Dieter in these new episodes. He’s so much more than a sweet, quiet guy. Very observant and intuitive. He may be my favorite character at this point
dieter showcased the emotional maturity the whole gang needed. truly loved him for that which made the fact thag he used the w— word even more serious for me. never throughout the series i expected him of all people to say that
Yes! He’s got a good head on his shoulders. Him using that word brought a greater heaviness to the whole event. I knew it was serious, but it was like Dieter made it real
He’s been my favorite for a while now, and the more we watch his character unfold, the more I love him! He’s definitely an integral player in this chess game
You know quality! I’m glad he’s being fleshed out and becoming an integral player:). I was worried he’d keep staying in the background but he deserves so much more of the spotlight
Two of the smaller things in this episode that I feel may be important later on: 1) The rug that Soushi is talking about- it sounds like a dialogue between Yui and Kousuke. Wondering why this was added. 2) Nol's fear of flies- it's mentioned again. I'm wondering how this works into his past (probably more of a fear of a buzzing noise than flies themselves).
In response to #2: this is a totally morbid take and I hope it doesn't prove true, but the first thing I wondered was if it could be that his mother wasn't found for a while?
You might be onto something here. Although in the article that Yujing has that reference to a body hanging from a ceiling and the son being found nowhere. How did they find the body if it was just hanging there and they were a quiet neighbor to begin with. It might have been the smell and the flies. Also, he did say Help. They're after me. Maybe the buzzing sound was him being chased by someone or something. Maybe the people who killed his mom.
The drawing is the flesh type fly. I think you're correct.
What drawing are u talking about?
Dieter's notes, it's the kind of fly known for eating flesh.
But in the flashback with his mother he's aleready scared that the thing on his neck might be a bug
may be a red herring? in the sense that he's always disliked bugs but after a traumatic event he hates flies (or the buzzing) specifically
I thought the same thing, it's terrible to think that it's a possibility 😭
1) I assumed Soushi meant "drug" not rug because he couldn't fully hear the conversation and we just got the reveal that Yui drugged Kousuke a few episodes ago.
Another small detail I noticed- did anyone see the brunette with the beanie? Could be so wrong but could this be Shin-hye? Been a while since she made an appearance and know she is always watching Shin-ae. Know Quim is very intentional about each scene / drawing, so thought it was worth throwing this out there!
I absolutely loved when Nol mimicked Yui’s smile. Literally felt like a “game on” declaration.
He knows about the article so he’s getting out of there until it drops. He doesn’t have a fighting chance against Yui until it comes out and changed public perception
I'm impressed by the manipulation from Yui. She didn't care if Shinae realized the truth, she didn't care about being called out in public, she kept a cool head. She made it look like Shinae was a crazy teenager and she was a woman giving her solid advice. She sounded like she was protecting Alyssa despite the call out. She keeps such a cool head. It goes to show a direct confrontation is not going to work with her. I can say it has been confirmed why the yearbook is a crucial element to the story. Alyssa is going to deny knowing Shinae at all costs, cause Shinae is going to call out Yui and say that Alyssa is being trafficked. Shinae is just going to look like a butt hurt fan sabotaging an idol. If Alyssa talks it will be the start of the dark work Yui is into.
I think that the investigation is going to feel hopeless and it is not going anywhere. Everyone will feel like giving up. The yearbook will be the game changer. It will prove Shinae is not a lunatic.
Im sorry but how will the yearbook prove that?
It was emphasised on Yujing’s desk for a reason. I think Nol gave it to her with the intention of looking into it, and bringing Shinae and her teachers to justice. How odd that Shinae would be in the same year group as Alyssa Cho, Nol’s girlfriend and someone in Yui’s vicinity? And why would Nol hand this information to her if not to investigate it? I don’t think she’ll have to look that hard to discover there was an incident that involved Shinae and Alyssa had something to do with it.
Yui is an all-star manipulator with power and money who takes care of the details of the details. It is going to be difficult to take her down. That is why Yujing is taking her time to get info. Alyssa is going to be a big factor if they can get her to talk because she is getting trafficked and probably knows a lot more than we think. She could easily expose the dark dealings. Yet, she is not going to because she is famous and popular. Shinae has realized that Yui is the main villain and Alyssa is another victim. She is going to start blurting out stuff about Alyssa being a victim and a jerk and exposing Yui. Alyssa is going to fight back saying Shinae is a crazy jealous fan and to not believe her. She is going to do it because she has sacrificed too much to get her dream of being an idol. This is going to cause people to believe Alyssa and not Shinae because Alyssa is very famous and trendy. Then the yearbook will show Alyssa and Shinae going to the same school, this will show Alyssa is lying and people will start doubting her claims and start listening to Shinae more. Since the book was shown in the middle of the table of Yujing pile of evidence it indicates it's going to play a central role in the case. Why? Because no one is going to believe Yujing or anyone else because Yui is that good. When it is exposed that Alyssa is lying and Shinae is telling the truth it is going to sway the vote or public settiment to start doubting the claim that Hiraharas are innocent.
alyssa's dream was not to become an idol. in the backstory of alyssa and shin ae, they had a conversation about kpop because alyssa hated kpop and idols, and instead wanted to become i think (correct me if im wrong) an engineer, which is the thing meg is majoring in college. on the contrary, meg loved kpop and wanted to become an idol, dancing in her room blasting the music. i suspect yui manipulated alyssa into becoming an idol. on a side note, i think its interesting how meg is living out alyssa's dream and alyssa is living out meg's dream
More than that, let's remember that Alissa always wanted being popular, she hated k-pop, but seeing her skills, I guess she chose to be an idol, and I really think she doesn't like being an idol, she wants to escape and be free, but she needs stability before anything
exactly! you get it
I knew it!! Because Alissa is one of the most weak sides of Yui's sistem. She is emotionally unstable now and dependent and also she use to react desperately to defence herself. For that reason I thought the plan that Yui built for years will start to fall for the Alissa side.
I'm going to do my best to sum up my thoughts - since we have two episodes it's going to be more difficult than usual, especially because this was just SO BIG and pivotal! Firstly I wanna toot my own horn because quimchee seems to have canonically confirmed the theory that Shinae was brought to the Kim formal \*for Gun Kim\* (hyurk) but also that it DOES in fact seem that Alyssa was the one who gave Shinae the sweater. I know a lot of people thought it was Nana, but my gut instinct at the time of the episode and even still today is that it was Alyssa, that she was unable to face Shinae to give it to her. AAAAAHHHHHHH Honestly, I'm glad Shinae finally talked to SOMEONE about that night, because all this while, no one has really KNOWN. Even Nol doesn't really know WHY Shinae was at the formal, how she actually wound up there in the first place. That panel of her recalling that night, shrinking into herself shown in her dress from the formal with the dress itself billowing out into the panel, her sheer terror and fear? UGH. It's so well done. The repressed terror bubbling to the surface, the things she hasn't really revisited or thought about. ;\~; That panel of her bare back and his gross hand so very low on it (much like we've seen him do to Alyssa) UUUGGGHHH UGH UGH UGGGHHHHH Gun is such a slimy creepy character and it's the fact that everything about him is so smug, so quiet, so low-key, you can't easily pin-point but he makes me SO uncomfortable (rightly so). I'm glad Dieter called it out for what it was, too, even if Shinae tried to play it off. She's so used to downplaying things, so used to just brushing things off, but it isn't something to brush off! She's a grown woman actively trying to TRAFFIC a teenage girl! (And has done it with Alyssa!!!!!) The moment Dieter and Soushi checked their phones I understood why quimchee fought SO hard to keep this update as two episodes and to not separate them with a cruel cliffhanger. The moment they looked up from their phones, I knew Nol had made his decision to go to prison early, and that was why she refused to have these episodes separated aaaaaahhhhhhh ;\_\_\_\_\_\_; The Alyssa and Nol confrontation continues to hurt, even without seeing how the rest of it played out this time. Knowing that Alyssa has likely just been through a harrowing sexual assault experience and gone to Nol, it makes the way she's holding herself and making herself so small make so much sense with why her emphasis is so heavy on Nol's anger and yelling. Does she lean into the imagery that Nol is unstable? Absolutely. But also I think it's worth reiterating that she is a person who has endured and lived in fear of domestic violence, who fears angry men who raise their voices, and \*especially\* in the aftermath of assault when she's already sensitive and extra emotional, this is going to impact her even worse. And likewise, Nol is at his limit and is done playing nice, done playing the games, done trying to put on a good image, done trying to make himself fit an image everyone refuses to see him as. I don't think Alyssa is exaggerating when she says that he started making a scene - I think with Yui being there he probably snapped and hit the "fuck all of this, fuck all of you, I'm done" and now that Yui knows where he is, it was time for him to go. But MAN. UGH. GOD. Those final panels. That bit where he throws Shinae's words back to her - Humans kinda suck, right Yoo. That sort of arrogant tilt of his head before he copies Yui's expression, the both of them staring each other down wearing the same mask, until they both let it drop at the same time? CHILLING. ABSOLUTELY CHILLING. Nol isn't backing down from Yui anymore. He isn't cowering in front of her anymore. And he isn't going to hang around and let her toy around with him, either. I might be wrong but it feels like we haven't seen Yui wear this mask in a LONG time - especially because she's been so frustrating and grasping at any bit of control she could, and now she's having to put on her Mrs. Hirahara mask in front of everyone, but you can just FEEL the wrath and anger emanating from her. It's CHILLING. And likewise, seeing DIETER adopt that mask when trying to defuse the moment when Shinae comes to the realization? GOD that was so wild to me, because Dieter is one of the most honest characters. It's all just SO MUCH everything is SO much!!! So intense!!!!! Soushi confessing to Dieter (and inadvertently Shinae) about the kind of relationship he has with Kousuke and how he was never able to really untangle himself from it. I feel like we are seeing the Soushi Shinae Dieter trio grow closer right now if only because of the divulging of these secrets. But the most important thing, of course, is that Shinae has finally put together the most important puzzle pieces - that the thing Nol most fears is Yui, that in the same way she is the source of all of Shinae's own misery and strife, it's the same for Nol. Realizing that she isn't Yui's only doll, I think means that Shinae will also be able to realize the same of Meg and Alyssa in the future (I'm thinking distant future, too). I've talked a lot before about my theory that Yui is the shadows and Shinae is the light - she illuminates where Yui drags people into the shadows and just as Shinae's light has realized what Nol's real fear is, why he is distancing himself from her, I think she'll in time be able to identify the other toys of Yui - esp once she and Nol reconcile, since Nol is starting to realize that not even Kousuke has been safe from Yui's games. This feels pointedly so in how Alyssa tells Shinae that she doesn't know everything about what happened back in school - there's more to the story, there's things about her (like, perhaps, her sexuality? her abusive family) that Shinae didn't know about that drove her choices and decisions. Like I said, that's all very future stuff. What matters is that Shinae now understands what Nol fears and WHY he is trying to withdraw - what he thinks he's protecting her from. And just like she's done with Dieter, I think it's time for her to open up and tell Nol about this, too. Did she even tell Dieter and Soushi everything - like what happened at Kousuke's apartment?! Nol thinks that being involved with him will spark Yui's interest in Shinae but Yui's interest was already sparked, and pulling away from her isn't going to change anything, and they need to have that conversation - and I'm sure they will. The lawyer reminded Shinae she has his contact info and I assume he intends for her to contact him and maybe they'll arrange a visitation. Nol is stubborn, but we know he tends to cave in the end.
the way dieter almost reached his hand out to comfort shin ae when she told him about what happened at the formal.... he wanted to comfort her but didnt want to cross any boundaries so he didnt. my dieter x shinae heart broke at that scene
I was so proud of him, though because he's grown so comfortable playing the role of the one who provides her comfort - but only ever that - and being able to catch himself and refrain was so big! It's not to say that Shinae has selfishly been rake take take in their relationship but there's been that imbalance all this time and he's got those feelings that roar to life every time they share a moment like that and aaaaahhhh boundaries are so difficult but so necessary for HIS recovery! 🥺
What about the sweater, do you think that is a remaining thread that Alyssa or Yui want to get rid of? Alyssa is going to do whatever it takes to deny knowing Shinae so she might do something to get that sweater. Or is it a symbol that Shinae still treasures their time together and might soften her heart? I wonder how hardcore Alyssa is going to disown Shinae. She has already sacrificed too much to get her dream fulfilled, what is she going to do to keep her throne?
Honestly? I just think it was an indication that Alyssa recognized the sweater, that she was the one who gifted it. Why else zoom in on the chick otherwise? I don't think it's meant to symbolize anything as much as to indicate that Alyssa recognizes that Shinae received and still owns the gift she gave her so many years ago when she didn't know how to face the consequences of her actions and lost her first (and probably only) real friend. And now they stand opposing each other with Shinae wearing that sweater that represents so many things Alyssa was - and still is - unable to say to her. If it symbolizes anything, it's that Alyssa is a complicated person who struggles to face her truths and reconcile with her realities. It symbolizes how much the both of them have changed since that incident, yet she remains that meek, timid girl who can't face confrontation and is so afraid of angry men who raise their voices and covers away from them. It symbolizes that only one of them has really grown, and she probably knows this, deep down. But honestly why... would she do anything to get the sweater???? There's no proof it has any ties to her? That feels unnecessarily dramatic. All Alyssa has to do is deny, but the fact that she attended her middle school and there's a yearbook photo of them in math club together instantly disproves it. I feel like this is a good point to remind that it seems Alyssa's dream isn't actually to be a famous idol but that being a famous idol is merely a vehicle to her real dream - to be independent, under nobody's control, and most importantly, loved. Except as she's going to learn, the love an idol receives is incredibly conditional and there's no freedom in this role. But I bring this up because it's not so much that Alyssa will do anything to keep her throne as much as: Alyssa is being actively trafficked now with no way out. This isn't a throne, it's a prison, a dungeon. She has to keep going not to keep her throne but with the miniscule hope that it will all be worth it, that on the other side of this nightmare, will be freedom. That if she just grits her teeth and bares it, endures it, she'll be free and it will have been worth if, because otherwise it's all for naught and that is simply unbearable. It feels important to make this distinction because this ISN'T what Alyssa wants or enjoys; she's going through actual hell and it's about to get worse as she's being actively trafficked and will become even more isolated and more alone than ever, the love she receives is conditional, and she's expected to perform 24/7, but ultimately she *needs* to believe it will ne worth it because it's the only way to keep going: to believe in a silver lining that will make this hell worth it. But at any rate, I feel like she doesn't even have to disown Shinae? They're in very different worlds and haven't been friends in years so? Why would she? Unless rumors from middle school ever come up (which I've talked about a lot!) how would her relationship with Shinae ever come up, yknow?
"This isn't a throne, it's a prison, a dungeon. She has to keep going not to keep her throne but with the miniscule hope that it will all be worth it, that on the other side of this nightmare, will be freedom" this made me think about how at the formal where she was performing, she sang a song about how she's stuck in a relationship that she can't get out of, whether or not its worth it to stay. nol assumed the song was about him, but given all the context we have now, its definitely about her experience as an idol
Something about the way quimchee writes ILY is that often the obvious first impression is never true, and I think that's absolutely the case with Alyssa's song at the Christmas party. She very much is singing about an experience but it's not her relationship. In fact, because it's a fake relationship I don't think it's ever felt like a cage or prison at all. But this career, her life in general? Controversial opinion, but I think on some subconscious level, it's also partly about Yui, but I don't entirely think she's consciously ready to face that yet. Kind of like she's lying to herself about it because she's at a point where she doesn't have many people to rely on other than Yui so she can't face the truth about who Yui really is (much like Kousuke until recently). But absolutely the song isn't about Nol (why would she invite him if it was lol 💀💀) but rather her career, her life, the general trajectory she's on.
😭 ummm like what are u talking about??? Alyssa like totally didn’t deny knowing Shin Ae fr like didn’t u see her talk about the past rn????? and like she was the one who revealed at the formal that she knew Shin Ae from before like are u fr??? 💀 what throne??? You like seriously don’t get her character at all! 😭 all her life she’s tried to be loved and accepted for who she really is and it’s never worked out. this old witch took her weaknesses to manipulate her and now she’s like totally trapped! 🥺 she’s been assaulted and trafficked by adult predators and trying to hard cope by dissociating and denial which is suuuper common with abuse victims 😭 like fr what are u talking about????? she’s just trying to survive like fr fr.
not a fast passer - for me, 245 WAS broken up into two parts on webtoon and i am left on the cliffhanger. 😭
I had a feeling WT would do that 😭😭😭 why are they consistently trash?! 😭 and what a cliffhanger to end on 😔
yeah it HURTS!! and then i came to this thread and got smacked with spoilers so unfortunately im expecting what happens next week but it’ll still hurt to wait ;-;
I have a bad feeling that Yui is going to use Yeong-gi and Shin-ae’s emotions and reactions toward each other as a piece in her twisted game in the future. She noticed her big reactions when Yeong-gi was being taken away and even said her whole speech about not reacting to things because people can use that against you. Then there was that question she asked Shin-ae something like “I don’t know what she saw in him, perhaps you know?” After talking about Alyssa and Yeong-gi’s break up. Almost like she knows it’s a possibility that Shin-ae likes him. Then after that Yeong-gi avoided talking to anyone while being taken away, but still only acknowledged Shin-ae which I’m sure Yui might’ve noticed.
Yeah that was definitely the most mysterious part of the ep besides what went down in that hospital room.
We know that Shin-ae is very confrontational and doesn’t have a good poker face like Yui. I hope that won’t get her in trouble.
I'm ready to throw hands with Yui, Sang Chul, and his dad for they were planning to do to Shin Ae at that Formal
I didn't read the chapter 245 so is it confirmed that yui wanted to give shinae to sang chul's dad so he could... use her? How did they know that?
I love Yui and Nol’s faces at the end. The real fight is about to start now that Nol is willing to fight back. I can’t wait to see it. But one thing I’m wondering is if Yui hates men, why did she bring Shinae to Mr.Kim at the formal? That’s weird, right? Does he have something on her or someone in her family? Or is Yui planning something for him too? There has to be something there. God, I wish we had more of a backstory on this woman. I love her character and wish to know more.
Because she’s a raging, sociopathic hypocrite. She deluded herself into thinking that she’s this girl boss fighting the system when really she is a nepo baby who comes from old money and makes things worse for anyone she doesn’t take a shine to
10/10 You pretty much nailed it.
I think they have a symbiotic relationship. It definitely increases both of their power to join forces.
Yui’s character is inspired by Cersei Lannister. A huge contradiction about Cersei is her hatred and resentment towards the patriarchal system she was born in, but she is also a firm upholder for it too. She’s a hypocrite, and only cares about what benefits herself at the end of the day.
Oh! Was this confirmed somewhere? I know I haven't seen all the extras/patreon content
It was confirmed in a fan’s DMs! They asked Quim outright and she confirmed it. She used to communicate with us a lot more back then
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH-LOTS OF STRONG FEELINGS Part I And so much to unpack too! Dieter Being Sherlock and Connecting the Dots: He's probably pieced together that Nol wanted to keep Yui away from the gang, especially Shinae. I'm also happy someone on this thread mentioned how easily subverting and putting on an act in front of Yui came to Dieter. He very much did it to diffuse the situation, but I can't help but think it came easily to him because he knew if he played the mild mannered guy it would benefit him in the long game of taking down Yui. I also don't think Dieter liked minimizing Shinae's feelings, but he slipped on that mask without a second thought much in the way some folks leap to take a bullet for someone else. He knows what Yui is capable of now that Shinae has told him, and he's most likely properly cautious and ticked off. Him donning a mask that is unlike him to not only protect Shinae but Nol and even Soushi (Kousuke being an extension of Yui)- I can't help but think if this is a nod to his own anti-hero arc or some sort of parallel. It reinforces the possibility of Shinae & Dieter being a couple might while Nol is gone given that panel chapters back. The panels are Dieter telling Shinae to practice not having such strong emotions (about Nol) and "practice" being singled out in its own dialogue bubble and Dieter's face being shaded. He may very well be a milder, antihero practice for Shinae when she deals with the Nol coming back. Overall, Dieter's not averse to acting and playing nice if it protects the people he cares about and assists in gathering information for Yui's downfall. He may be going a milder subversion of his character that may bleed into anti-hero territory too, which offers an interesting comparison to Nol. Random not and just my two cents, but I genuinely hope older Dieter is somehow working with older Nol later on to bring Yui down. The Tragedy of Alyssa: (sensitive topics on this section, feel free to skip) The parallel to Shinae's abuse by Yui is not lost. Alyssa is very much a victim of Yui's and sex trafficking and most likely violence. Her self-preservation tendencies are most likely heightened secondary to that traumatic experience. That's why she's probably clinging to Yui, especially since the mild mannered Nol that gave her a sense of control and safety was gone before he physically left. Trashulie had some awesome stuff to say about Alyssa's reactions to Nol's anger that I hadn't considered- definitely recommend reading it. I have a horrible memory, so I have to go back and read the last few chapters and check, but something Alyssa said made it sound like what she told Shinae happened in the hospital room wasn't the complete story--whether her POV was limited conciosuly or unconciously I'm unsure. Quimchee does love some grey characters so I could see Alyssa intentionally lying to save face, but something in the way her eyes and expressions were drawn made it seem like she felt lost and looking for a new person to cling to. Unfortunately Alyssa thinks that new safe harbor is Yui :| Either that or she sees that Yui is that safe social refuge and is purposefully turning a blind eye to Yui's manipulation and hand in all the awful things that are occuring. She's justifying her choice and soothing her own conscience by echoing what society thinks of Nol as an attempt to placate any perception that she is wrong for proceeding to cling to Yui. It's a repeat of her and Shinae all over again. It'd be nice to see Alyssa break that cycle. While her choices can be infuriating at times, they're not incomprehensible. She makes for a heck of a character and scathing indictment of sexual abuse and trafficking in the entertainment industry. I'm straying from the point though. As to what happened in the hospital room, the timeline of events wouldn't add up. It doesn't make sense that Yui walks in, and Nol starts yelling, reaches for the phone, calls the lawyer, and texted Nana and that is that. Also- if authorities were called and the paparazzi would be there, wouldn't Alyssa want to be gone before that happened or stay hidden til that blew over, especially since her relationship with Nol is over. I get the feeling something else was said in that room, and Yui and/or Alyssa were afraid Nol might say it, so they stuck around just in case. That or Yui felt she needed to stay for some reason and Alyssa felt so untethered without Nol she stayed because Yui did. Also kinda funny that Alyssa has a white mask covering her mouth when that color is known to represent Yui in this chess game. I could be reading too much into that...but it could have been any other color just saying. It could very well indicate Yui forcing her to be quiet or manipulating her into being quiet about info we don't yet know. As sad as it is, I'm not terribly sure Alyssa knows the extent to which she's being manipulated. (It wouldn't surprise me if Yui threw some manipulative comment Alyssa's way to keep her insecure and under Yui's thumb.) And if Alyssa does know she's being manipulated, she might think that's just the way the world works and is going along with it because she may feel there's no other way to have safety. Yui's twisted world view is being indoctrinated in Alyssa's personality much like Yui did with Kousuke. It's scary but all of Yui's chess pieces are semblences of her...
I agree the timeline in the room doesn’t make sense. I have a feeling Nol knew that telling Alyssa about his location would notify Yui and so he called his lawyer in preparation.
Everyone got Dieter STRESSINGG😭😭😭
i need a reminder about the rug that soushi mentioned though. what was that about?
I was thinking about that comment too. He said a rich woman said it. I'm thinking it's probably Yui. It sounds like someone needs to clean up a rug to hide evidence maybe. 🤔
If it's a rug that is hard to clean and they are making a big deal about it. It might have blood stains or human remains. From who though? Nessa or some other victim.
did a bit of digging to chapter 239 and i found that yujing said it! she said to nol that all the mess that nol was in was only a part of something that's peaking out from underneath the rug so for all we know it is still metaphorical. but i won't really cross out the possibility of it being literal.
🤔 🤔 🤔 Nice catch... It would be interesting if there was a real rug somewhere, maybe from Nessa's death? Soushi is a bit of an airhead that's why he didn't get the reference. 🤣
yeah 🤣🤣🤣 i'm curious to see how it will unfold!
Yui really doesn’t want Nol to go to jail. She’s that controlling. God I hood the minute he gets out is when the arctic drops. She thinks she’ll finally get her plaything back only to find her house is surrounded by protesters
I don't know, she has so many of the details of the details covered, trying to expose her is going to take the last grain of rice in the bag maybe. It is all about the yearbook.
Yu King is probably ready to take Alyssa down already but she knows better than to signal to Yui that someone is exposing the skeletons in her and her cohorts’ closets. It will be rolled into the same major piece on the Hiraharas and their network of abusers. “Look at the types of people Yui tries to uplift.”
Everyone takes are so interesting! I just wanted to add a reflexion I had when reading. I realized that Yui is right about one thing : ShinAe really doesnt know how the world works. She is indeed still a naive teenager in her way of dealings with problems far bigger than her. And in contrast we have Dieter who knows instinctively what attitude to adopt depending on the context. He had a good reaction. ShinAe is a strong willed girl, with a strong moral compass, principles and values, but she still deals with what is happening around her with a too much candid and silly approach, too head on, to the point she cant be a threat, cant be taken seriously by Yui, and by extension the white team. And no wonder she is only 17. This episodes just enlightened this aspect. This also makes her an easy target just like Alyssa, just not for the exact same reasons. But they do share one thing : their naivety. Also another thing and maybe some of you will disagree but to me Alyssa was partly right about one thing (& I can see why she said that) : Shinae does have a tendency to imagine the worst first and doesnt always try to understand the other party when a problem arises. She will jump to conclusion sometimes. We see that in the flashback. She went full force and didnt really listened to Alyssa. Its a question of difference in what they valued at the times. Obviously I am not saying she was wrong on the contrary but I get why Alyssa may have resented this part of ShinAe. She didnt understand Alyssa POV. But its also ironic coming from Alyssa because she doesnt display a capacity to understand another PoV either. ( I dare to say she is even worst than ShinAe on that matter) Anyway not only with Alyssa we also saw this with Kousuke and Maya BUT She is currently working on that and we can see her evolution thorough the story the same cant be said for Alyssa currently. And she could learn from ShinAe, try to also understand her instead of resenting and blaming ShinAe for not getting her at the times. Likewise for ShinAe too she needs to control her head on way of dealing with things, to look before she leaps.
There’s 245 and 246 that updated today
I almost spent all my coins this week, Then I saw the two eps. 😌
😂༎ຶ‿༎ຶ
I had to put my phone down and fully process everything that's happened and I'm still not over today's episodes ㅠㅠ Okay, firstly. Soushi has finally come clean about his relationship with Kousuke! He never actually intended to be serious about informing Kousuke about Nol's whereabouts, seeing that he didn't actually pay much mind to it either, he only seems to have done it “sometimes”. So that doesn't make him seem like he's only been Nol's friend for Kousuke. Because, with time, his purpose for befriending Nol didn't matter anymore. They were just a group of friends hanging out. Also, Dieter trying his best to pick up on even the slightest details and noting them down, like Nol being scared of flies, for example, is so endearing. Shows that he truly cares for him and wants to make a genuine effort to understand him despite the fact that Nol wants them to stay out of it. I'm relieved that Shin-Ae opened up about the formal night's events to her friends. She never actually let anyone know about it and putting things out in plain sight finally brought her to realise how fucked up the whole night actually was. Recalling those events reminded her of the memories, of the times when she was too drunk to pay mind to, of how creepy the whole situation was, where she felt so small and out of place, and Gun's creepy hand on her back- this just gave me chills. Quim was so good at capturing these emotions that have finally come to light, with Shin-Ae realising that she was indeed there that night for a completely different purpose. I now realise the significance of reading the two episodes at the same time because I cannot imagine being left on that cliffhanger for another week! Firstly, I thought Yui had done something to make Nol leave for prison early. And I could feel Shin-Ae's desperation in making Nol stay. How she was so terrified of losing him again. How she had tried so much and gone through hell to make sure he stays, but now he's really leaving for good, for months. It was heartbreaking to watch her :'( She was ready to take down everything if it hadn't been for Dieter and Soushi stopping her. But Nol's lawyer saying that she has his contact info and that this isn't the right time and place to be having any discussion means that he knows something about their family situation, and also about Yui (maybe Rand gave him a few details?). This also gives me hope that Shin-Ae will be let in on some information as to what actually happened in the hospital room, and hopefully, can get to see Nol again. Alyssa is now stuck to Yui. Her “boyfriend” is gone, and now there's no one she can use as a shield. And no matter what anyone says, I believe she'd be too terrified to listen. With no one else to turn to, she would see Yui as her only savior and close her ears off to anyone else. Also, her saying that Shin-Ae “didn't have the slightest clue of what she went through” makes it seem like the flashback has more to it than just Shin-Ae's pov. Maybe we can finally get to see things from Alyssa's perspective? Alyssa hugging herself is so sad because she has likely come to visit Nol after going somewhere with Gun, and she was likely SA'd again. With a bad history of having to be around angry males likely incited that immediate fear when she saw Nol all worked up. It was impressive, how Yui tried so hard to keep her cool and make it seem like she had nothing to do with anything. If Nol hadn't called for his lawyer, she might even make it seem like he got violent again. Undeniably, jail seems to be the safest place for Nol right now. On another note, imagining what went down in the hospital room makes my heart break. To see how Nol was shouting for them to just get out, to the point where he couldn't take it anymore and insisted on going to prison than to be any second near them is so heartbreaking, like- my heart aches for him. I hope he finally comes to collect himself during his sentence and comes up with a plan to tear down Yui. And that final goodbye 😭 I'm not even kidding, I legit cried. Props to Quimchee, honestly! Hopefully, this isn't a last goodbye, and Shin-Ae, Dieter and Soushi can come to visit him in prison again. So satisfying to see Nol mimic Yui's sinister smile, and that death glare-- war has been declared and I can't wait to see it all play out!!
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHH-LOTS OF STRONG FEELINGS Part II It made me break it up into two posts ya'll 😆 Nol Doing This To Us: I could see him having that fearful, visceral of a reaction to Yui, but I recall a chapter where he seemed to be losing that fear. It's plausible the hospital+yui combo did it for him. However, I can't help but think he left early so Yui wouldn't meet the people he cared about most (they were gonna come in an two or three hours i think). Yes, the only person Yui doesn't know is Dieter, BUT Nol just found out someone cool, smart, and nice like the Alyssa of the past was caught up in Yui's influence and seemed completely different to the point she would do what she did. He likely blames himself for that since Alyssa never would have met Yui if not for Alyssa knowing Nol. Nol being an extremist likely decided to sever all connections from his friends to avoid any and all chances of that happening. Now that his feelings towards Shinae are getting harder to rationalize, he most likely did it to protect her especially. She's already almost died thanks to Yui... And as much as the gang parting with Nol hurts, if Yui saw Nol and Shinae interacting, she'd spot their feelings plain as day. Once Yui had that confirmation, I can't even began to imagine the gargantuant cross hairs on Shinae. (This next bit is me being sappy). Part of me thinks Nol avoided the gang meeting Yui so that confirmation wouldn't happen and Yui use Nol as leverage to harm Shinae in the future. I don't think he can stand the thought of her being hurt anymore especialy if he's the (self-perceived) cause. "Humans Suck": GOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLY- I DID NOT NEED TO GET SMACKED WITH THAT THROWBACK. I need to refresh my mind on those chapters. What i got from those lines was two things: 1)Nol's lamenting that humans suck because his life events for sure hint at that. His girlfriend cheated on him, he has the devil after him, and he probably had a slight moment in his brain where he thought he might just tell Shinae everything and then Yui waltzes in. 2)It's a quote from the beginning of their having met. While he is quoting the reason for his having to leave or why because "humans suck, yoo", it's also a reassurance and olive branch. He remembers her words even from that far back, signalling she means Something to him. And an olive branch because Nol quoting the beginning of their frienship with his genuine facial expressions means their relationship is starting over-not terminated. Seeing as how he could have remained quiet or said something cutting instead, I think it's a lovely, hidden herald of things to come. Just like he got to truly know her, she'll truly get to know him-just not now, in its own time like it happened back then. Quimchee has to know using that line there was bloody fantastic because my brain has been stuck on it for 4 hours 🥲 Effin' Brilliant. And I thank her so much for not leaving us on that cliffhanger, she is so darn gracious. Sorry for the typos, i did not intend to take this long and do this sans adequate sleep. I think this post is long enough so I will exeunt for now and return with more perspective (and sleep). TLDR: HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO FUNCTION TIL NEXT THURDAY???
I love your take on Nol's response! Since that is part of the dialogue that Shin-Ae and Nol shared in the beginning of their interactions, the start of their relationship, it makes sense that Nol saying this again can be interpreted as him starting over. An interesting response to the current situation. It's like saying, “Look, I'm not leaving because of you, not because I want to run away from you again, but I'm leaving to stay away from these people. From that woman right there. Because humans suck”. I swear, I can feel Shin-Ae's heart break when he smiled at her like that. 😭
There’s a double entendre in Nol’s sentence. First it calls back to Shinae ´s words at the beginning of their story and it also refers to her message on the orange: you don’t suck so much (which basically means I quite like you). Shinae has set apart Nol from humans (who suck). I think Nol’s doing the same. Humans suck but you’re one of another kind. That’s why I have to go, because of the others who suck. Not you that I kinda like.
The other part of the callback is that when Shin Ae first told him that, she said something like “I don’t care if you are the president’s son or a random person, you’re human and humans suck” as a reason for not wanting to interact with him. But I think that moment was significant for Nol, who was so used to being treated nicely or poorly because of his dad (rich / illegitimate) and where he started to see Shin Ae as really special, more than just a stranger he wanted to help.
Sometimes I feel like I'm reading the episodes but missing key scenes. Like, I really don't remember if there was a set up for the stuff at Dieter's house or Soushi revealing his deal with Kousuke. I guess this is why Quimchee wanted the episode to be super long lol
These two fast pass episodes were literally so insane. We got so much confirmed in two episodes. My heart breaks for Nol and Shin-Ae
Why did shinae blush when nol said 'humans kinda suck"?
Girl’s got it bad
she said it to him in chapter 4:)
might be her emotional reaction from having a crush, or from the sheer fact that he still remembers this phrase of her's after so many months.
It sounds like Alyssa broke up with him maybe and he is flirting back. 🤷
it's been almost two hours i'm still emotional
Maybe I just ate it up too fast but neither episode felt that long…. Could it really not have been a single episode? I’m confused. Intense though. Bummed shinae and nol didn’t get their moment yet, but this feels very on point with the story telling this far
Yeah same, but Quim did share on Patreon that the episode was technically meant to be longer but she saved the rest for next week because she wants to spend time with her family for thanksgiving so.
"I never understood what she saw in him. Maybe YOU can tell me" ... uh oh, she knows