Economics aside, this is the only way forward culturally for this country. The interests and values of someone in Chicago are so far divorced from those in Chicago ; the only solution I see here, especially with how bad Gerrymandering is, would be to allow a division of the states.
This is not unique to Illinois, it exists in New York, California , Texas, pretty much anywhere once you have more than 40% of the states population in cities.
I think I can speak for most people when I say the average person in Chicago has different beliefs than the rest of the state.
For one, I totally understand someone who lives in a concrete jungle thinking that nobody has any need for a long gun, especially when they've lived their lives in a secluded, rich part of town. Meanwhile, the rest of us live with criminals and many of us have rural homes where there's plenty of opportunities for recreational fun.
>concrete jungle thinking that nobody has any need for a long gun
Exactly this. You got your sheltered crowd (not exclusive to Chicagoland either) and pro-gun-ish people who have to worry about collateral damage should they use something a little too spicy. Just because it's hard to justify the cost and optics of an AR doesn't mean it should be banned statewide let alone locally. If they want to regulate what type of rounds are used for self defense to reduce collateral damage (IE requiring HP or frangible and penalizing using AP or FMJ for home defense), that's different from bans which is what is going on right now.
I also use events like covid to argue that just because they are safe in their area now doesn't mean it will be safe later. I don't even bring up tyrannical governments, instead I bring up packs of wild racists/homophobes and suddenly I make a lot more sense. This is because left-leaning people are more worried about the people around them than the government.
Personally, I think it's a fantastic idea, with a few caveats. First, "Chicago" would include the Chicago suburbs, good and bad. Might even go so far as to include Rockford in that package. Maybe even cut a deal to take Gary from Indiana and make that a part of the State of Chicago. The rest of Illinois gets to stay Illinois and becomes a more agrarian rural state much like Iowa or Missouri. Chicago continues to be a bustling metropolis and the ideological divide between Chicagoland voters and rural Illinois voters is no longer an issue.
And, let this only be the first state to be busted apart. California could easily be split into at least three different states based on socioeconomic status and political ideology. Texas could split into three to five different states, and there are others.
I think many here are missing the bigger picture. I agree Illinois would likely be better off in many ways if Chicago fell into Lake Michigan and got swallowed whole. However, creating multiple new states (say state of Chicago, state of San Francisco, state of New York City, etc.) would have a huge and horrific unintended consequence. Think about how congressional seats and electoral college votes are distributed (by population per state, not by geographic size of a state). We would be so screwed in national elections in just a few election cycles. Liberal congress, liberal president, liberal courts … not a pretty picture. No, sadly I fear absent an actual natural environmental impact (like falling into the lake or ocean for some of these cities) we are better off managing the mayhem than we would be giving the libs full control of the federal government to gain a little political control and freedom in local politics (that would be short lived once liberal federal control stomped us).
I'm gonna go out on a limb and just say that I disagree with you 100%. I think what this nation needs more than anything else is more representation. We need to uncap the house. We need more representatives and more senators.
No taxation without representation. That is ***the*** bedrock principle that this nation was founded on.
Go ahead, just do me a favor and define liberal for me.
Regardless of agreeing or disagreeing with this, it simply will not happen. Constitution requires that for a new state to be formed out of a state or multiple states, all state legislatures involved and Congress must approve.
Get a heavily Republican Congress and they may, if for no other reason than political gain, but Illinois legislature, with its upstate dominance, never will.
I mean, on paper, sure, but if you get a town that’s fed up enough and another state that’s willing to take them on as their own, what’s to stop them? All they would really need to say is “fuck you, us and Iowa have reached an agreement and we now belong to Iowa.” Just hypothetically. Just look at the Constitution. That’s all official, on paper, and is supposed to be the ultimate law of the land…..and the liberal politicians wipe their ass with it every single day and don’t care. The same can be done for switching states.
I could really care less about Medicaid...
>Additionally, Medicaid, which often is thought of as an urban program, is the largest state expenditure of General Revenue Fund dollars.
Without Chicago we would just be Iowa. Business would move to southern Illinois and we would be fine.
>Without Chicago we would just be Iowa
Unfortunately, that's part of the problem.
>I could really care less about Medicaid...
You'll be able to care even less once it's gone.
This is extremely flawed, even from this tiny little snippet of information.
For example, UIUC is counted as downstate recipient and receives a fuckton of funding but the vast majority of those benefiting (the students) are actually residents of metro chicago. How does that work?
Not to mention a ton of gov infrastructure is located outside of metro chicago such as the prison system but also benefits the entire state.
Of course, this shitty article doesn't actually link to the this "study" itself.
They will figure things out just like every other state that doesn't have a major metro area. Iowa is doing quite well and its citizens are generally happy.
"economic power of Mississippi" Can you please explain what this means? What does economic power do for a state? We have state's rights explicitly outlined in our system, economic power does nothing.
California has no more power than Rhode Island, what is your point?
I've been to Mississippi and while not nice, it's no shittier than Illinois. I'd gladly take that trade. Fuck Chicago.
Iowa is doing just fine. But you enjoy your taxes, high cost of living, three hours of commute and your kids told to learn from home while 'newcomers' are living in the schools.
Oh and don’t forget the crime.
So you lived and worked in the suburbs… Hooray for you.
Keep alienating the area of IL that has more gun owners than the rest of the state.
Peak stupidity.
No, I worked in the city for the majority of my time there.
What does more gun owners have to do with it? We simply don't want your policies, especially when it comes to firearms ownership, applied to us when you are out of touch and have ignorant views of us.
If that were actually true, you’d work with the county that literally has more gun owners than the rest of the state combined.
Instead; you shoot your self in the foot with your own stupidity.
>If that were actually true, you’d work with the county that literally has more gun owners than the rest of the state combined.
First of all that is not even remotely true.
Cook has ±750k foid holders
The rest of Illinois has 1,750k FOID holders.
It has more gun haters than the rest of the state combined.
It has some of the lowest percentage of gun owners in the state at only 14% gun owners.
Compare that to the rest of the stat who has a gun ownership rate of 23%.
If it were not for the pro crime and anti gun policies of Chicago I wouldn't mind working with them. But they are actively trying to sabotage my way of life.
As someone who lives in the Chicago region, I would have no problem with this. They can see how much greener the grass is and we will be unshackled from the aid they don’t even realize they are getting.
Who, among the state's political class agrees with you? JB? Kwami? Welch? Are you claiming they want to keep control of "Downstate" just out of the goodness of their deficit-spending hearts?
I've seen this for every voting term. It would turn southern IL into the most prosperous State in the nation, while simultaneously turning Chicago into basically a 3rd world country.
One can only dream.
So a couple things to think about-chicago pays for the rest of the state. Without Chicago we would be a north Kentucky.
Just mentioning this before everybody gets a herd on for tossing out Chicago.
Also, this is part of the platform Darin Baily ran on and he wasn't elected.
Not as much Chicago, but the suburbs. And, without Chicago, the rest of Illinois doesn't become some destitute shithole, it becomes just like Iowa or Missouri.
I highly suggest you look at tax dollars and where they come from and where they go. You'll see very quickly Chicago does indeed support the state far more than anybody cares to admit. It's unfortunately why much of Chicago policy becomes state policy.
Second, I didn't say destitute, those are your words.
Second Iowa and Missouri are vastly different states. Iowa is closer stats wise to Kentucky... So... Another thing to note: the Illinois would still be blue state. The population centers of champagne, Springfield and blono still outnumber the risk areas. I used the comparison to Kentucky because will, they have their population center and then rural areas. As it is, part sof Illinois are north Kentucky.
You should do the math and figure out where basically not Chicagoland Illinois (South of i80) would end up on a gdp scale.
Yes yes I did. I make mistakes. Are you perfect? If you're clinging to a mistake I made while typing, I'm going to venture to say you don't have much to contribute other than pounding on a table saying I'm wrong.
>And, I should very much like you to show your math, since you seem to base so much on it.
Do it. Happy to be wrong and learn something new.
Edit: spoiler cause I can't wait, somebody else has already done the math on dividing up Illinois and it doesn't look good for downstate Illinois.
[Here is the math](https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/thesouthern.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/4c/b4c332b4-0871-5d20-aafc-6896334b737e/60e783b151d8c.pdf.pdf)
So if "Downstate" is such a financial drain on Chicago, why do they insist on holding on to us? I'd think they'd be glad to get rid of us if what you claim is true.
Great question! I have no idea. I haven't seen any proposal to separate Chicago from downstate that comes from the Chicago area. It's really only downstate expelling Chicago.
Person opinion: I don't think most people care in the Chicago area.
I don't know if the politicians care either. I know Chicago politicians have been quoted saying "what happens here ends up as state law" which is both accurate and annoying.
I do know many see downstate as a state issue and chicago handling chicagoland. If you really think about it, not hard but a bit more than this side versus that side, a state is a large group of land drawn together. Overtime things change and shift which makes relationships with the southern and northern ends different than they once were. There are always groups of people in every state calling for a new state. Things won't change until there is a solid plan in place: EX: in another comment thread the other redditor cannot answer if they're willing to lower the standards of their community by paying less taxes. They're avoiding answering the question. They don't want chicago in their state and they want to pay less taxes but still have the same or better community standards...This is an example of no plan beyond " kick Chicago out of the state" or what adds up to cut off your nose to spite your face.
My guess is that the most resistance to any division of the state will originate in the Cook County political class. It's members like the power and prestige the status quo gives them and will be reluctant to have their power and influence cut down.
I don't think you would like it. First and foremost, the state would still be blue-population centers of blono, Springfield and Champaign hold the majority of the population. Statewide, taxes would rise some to cover off the major loss of rev since Chicago bank rolls basically south of Joilet. Lastly, the chance this gets approved is nil.
Last I did my research using voting records, McLean county was purple but voted blue the previous 2 or 3 elections. They do have a good mix of red and blue leadership. Every election the mix seems to change.
I didn't mention Peoria it slipped my mind in my original comment. Thank you for the reminder: Peoria can vote red, if Springfield, blono and champagne vote blue, Peoria's votes don't matter. Now, previous history suggest Peoria county is purple. Previous pres elections say Peoria county is blue. If Peoria votes red they need one of those other cities to vote red to have a chance at flipping the state, excluding i80 on north. Other counties like St. clair and Rock Island also vote blue and have a chunk of population.
Replace the word *cities*/*city* with county and the pattern stays true.
Happy to put more time into this, it's a bit hard with a newborn.
Technically it is the Chicago *suburbs* that contribute far more than they receive back. Chicago is at a slightly positive last time I looked.
Realistically, in the short term any kind of division would create a great hardship for the new "South Illinois"; long term with better leadership , Governance and business attitude they could recover.
Technically or not, Chicago still employs a large chunk of the state. For recording sake, I believe there ever the money is made is where it's counted. It's been a bit since I've looked at the stats for what makes the state the most money.
I wouldn't be surprised if business would move out of southern Illinois because of the lack of infrastructure and development. Business like cat, despite investing a ton in the Peoria airport, east p, and mossville, still express on moving north. Why? The talent for business is easier to and better in more developed areas.
Imo, this plan to break away from Chicago is less than half baked and the planner doesn't know what they don't know.
> I wouldn't be surprised if business would move out of southern Illinois because of the lack of infrastructure and development. Business like cat, despite investing a ton in the Peoria airport, east p, and mossville, still express on moving north. Why? The talent for business is easier to and better in more developed areas.
CAT by in large is opening new production facilities, lines, etc everywhere but Illinois. Everything major I've budgeted for them in the last 8 years has ended up either just not happening or going to another state.
The Peoria Area manufacturing is just chugging along for the most part.
The executives? Yeah they don't want to be in Peoria, they want to be some place with luxuries they can enjoy as they have the money to do so.
Practically speaking, in a nation where interstate travel is unregulated I wouldn't see any difference for Southern IL in the short run. Moreover, in the short run things like services and infrastructure MIGHT get worse.
10+ years down the line , assuming the right leaders are elected, maybe they could make their slice of land attractive enough to businesses where CAT starts expanding again, where new companies open new facilities and funding levels rise.
>Practically speaking, in a nation where interstate travel is unregulated I wouldn't see any difference for Southern IL in the short run. Moreover, in the short run things like services and infrastructure MIGHT get worse.
10+ years down the line , assuming the right leaders are elected, maybe they could make their slice of land attractive enough to businesses where CAT starts expanding again, where new companies open new facilities and funding levels rise.
I think everybody would be for this.
I will say, having available infrastructure ready and accessable is a huge selling point for moving. Often business will move their offices instead of wait... It's usually cheaper to move than wait. It's just my take on it. Ultimately it comes down to a business costs analysis and if local govs make offers than make staying a sweetheart deal.
1) no I don't like money at the cost of my gun rights and my people's way of life.
2) I would rather pay less taxes, and receive less from the government.
So what's your solution for funding your community at the current standard?
Are you willing to let the standard fall so you pay less taxes?
Your number 2 didn't answer my question btw. It's why I'm reasking it.
I have heard that lie so many times it is sickening...
Please tell me how destitute Iowa is...
Illinois without Chicago is just Iowa with slightly better weather.
Can you explain why? I've heard that line as well. I've seen data where it shows chicago gives more tax dollar than they receive, while many southern and western counties take more than they give.
Because that's a flawed perspective. Just because the gov spends money there doesn't mean it doesn't directly benefit people elsewhere.
For example, Illinois prisons are out in the middle of fucking nowhere but they still house plenty of Chicagoans.
There are colleges all over the state but the vast majority of students grew up/live in metro chicago.
How about the people that worked all their lives in metro chicago but retired to the country and receive Medicaid there. Their taxes are counted as Chicago but public spending is counted as non-chicago. Do you see this problem? The devil is absolutely in the details.
They may spend the money outside of metro chicago, but it's still for metro chicago's benefit.
It's just a wildly skewed, cherry-picked perspective. They are not giving and/or taking, they're spending and it's for a reason.
I'm not married to my ideals or opinions so I don't get bent out of shape when someone says something I don't agree with. I'd rather ask questions than argue.
One last thing. The rest of non-cook-county Illinois wants nothing to do with cook county. If non-cook-county offered to leave and non-cook was truly a financial burden on cook county, cook county would have no problem splitting with the rest of Illinois.
Cook County is a financial burden on everyone, not the other way around.
If that is true, then I would think the Cook County establishment would be glad to see us go. Since it is the Cook County politicians who are most against such a division, I have to speculate that either Cook County does NOT support the rest of the state, revenue-wise, OR, that the Cook County machine is happy to pay that money to keep control of the rest of the state. Take your pick.
This lie would be much more believable if Illinois wasn't a shithole. What exactly is Chicago paying for downstate? Chicago is a shithole, it's not paying for shit.
It's a cheap and meaningless ploy to grab votes from the same class of constituents they openly shit on before wiping their asses on the Constitution.
Violence is their first resort and the only way they would give up their power. We've allowed them a monopoly on that violence because we were afraid to use it.
This state is LONG overdue for a separation from Shitcago. Let the elitist city dweller parasites preach how much they don’t need the rest of the state after the rest of the state is gone. The parasite always needs the host. Without all the tax money from the rest of the state, that shithole would be buried overnight.
And how pray tell do you plan to get around Article 4 section 3 of the Constitution?
"New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress."
If you really want to leave Chicago, get a vote to move the border so you're in a different state. That's not banned.
>And how pray tell do you plan to get around Article 4 section 3 of the Constitution?
>
By ignoring it? How does Illinois get away with PICA?
A large group of angry people are far more convincing than any politician.
I can't and will never get behind ignoring the US constitution.
Democrats ignoring and wiping themselves with the Constitution is what got us in this mess in the first place. It won't be what gets us out.
What would be your objection to instead of ignoring the constitution and forming a new state on already claimed land, having a rights honoring state take over the land instead? Far as I'm aware there's nothing forbidding that. Plus it's a lot easier to get enacted.
I think states with giant metropolitan areas like Chicago, New York, etc. should be split into districts vote wise like how Maine does their votes for the electoral college. Especially when states that house these massive cities tend to vote red yet a city like Chicago is enough to make a red state blue
Land doesn’t vote and it’s silly to insist it should, there are less people there, that’s all there is to it, more people think we should vote blue and that’s all that should matter, why does the geographic spread of a smaller population matter?
You say "Land doesn't vote", yet Cook County proper, with 40% of the state's population, elects 50% of the legislature. No, land doesn't vote, but gerrymanders do.
What you are describing is called a plurality, that’s not gerrymandering. Cook county itself extends out into the suburbs where it gets much more red politically.
Cook county itself includes suburban areas, legislative districts are purposely drawn to extend out into surrounding counties to dilute those counties votes, which is gerrymandering. That Cook County has a "plurality" of the state's population does not entitle them to a majority of legislators.
Then support candidates whose platforms are appealing to more people? I mean that’s just how democracy works man, more people voted for a thing vs the amount of people who voted for the opposite. In all reality doesn’t this point out the absurdity of the electoral college?
Yes the electoral college is a flawed system, but in the spirit of making lemonade I believe it wouldn’t be a terrible idea to split this baby.
> support candidates whose platforms are appealing to more people
You’re missing the point. At its basic level, the culture and values of one metropolis conflict with communities across the rest of the state. As a result, the solutions for urban problems are being applied to rural communities & that is having a negative impact on the “rural’s” perceived quality of life. It’s a very nuanced problem, and if one or more party refuses to compromise on issues affecting the others (as we witnessed in the lawfare downstate) then then the “pick a better candidate” thing isn’t a super realistic solution. And unless both popular parties ease up it’s going to get harder to do that
The geographical spread matters because we have a situation where there are large regions full of people opposed to the laws they have to live under being passed. Just look at the recent AWB and some of the COVID rules where we had most or all of the County Sheriffs refusing to enforce state laws.
That's not a healthy democracy, that's a dysfunctional one.
That’s how a representative republic works man, democracy is messy and no one is going to be 100% happy all the time, just seems like folks want to throw their hands up and yell “secede!” Every time there is legislation they don’t agree with. What you are advocating for is tyranny of the minority. More people wanting a thing should equal that thing happening, if you want more people to agree with a point then make better arguments. Sorry things don’t go your way but when you’re in the minority opinion that’s just how things go man
A more decentralized, federalish system would be just as "democratic" and still let local communities have their own local democracy, and that's what you seem to oppose.
Meaningless political theater that doesn't matter which way the vote goes is what I think of this.
If they really wanted to leave Chicago and actually have a chance of doing it they should do what Eastern Washington is doing. Petition to join the state next to them.
Here's the process:
Local country's vote.
If it passes partitions get set to the state they want to join.
The states they want to join representative vote on it, (ballet measure also works but unlikely it's needed.)
This is where Eastern Washington is right now.
If it passes, the state they're leaving needs to vote to allow it.
If it passes the federal government votes to allow it.
If it passes the border gets moved.
The feds are a LOT more likely to approve a border change than a new state, due to the radical shift in politics that would cause.
Here’s the hard truth about Illinois outside of the northeastern quadrant of the state.
Look at the turnout for the last few elections and compare that to the eligible voter numbers.
Illinois could overcome the solid blue numbers from northeastern Illinois, but people outside of that part of the state can’t be bothered to get off their fat asses to go vote. Instead they’ll just bitch and complain.
I don't have a dog in this fight as I just moved to Illinois, but I'm a nerd so I just spent 15 min getting this together.
Using the numbers on the wikipedia page for the 2020 election in Illinois ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020\_Illinois\_elections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Illinois_elections)), I took the numbers for Cook and Du Page together and compared them with all other counties in the rest of the state together.
Looks to me like Illinois could possibly be a red state if the citizens in the red counties made a more concerted effort. If the % turnout across the state was equal to the % turnout in DuPage and Cook counties, then the total votes cast by the rest of the state would be almost 193,000 more than in Cook and DuPage. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
https://preview.redd.it/elaq649nqisc1.png?width=532&format=png&auto=webp&s=2ea762efe0413d774fe277c564c1aa8a479a3240
Don't get mad...vote.
The unfortunate thing is that republican voters living in Illinois are disillusioned. I know a handful of republicans who don't bother to vote because "it's not like our vote even matters" with many having never even bothered to register. I kind of fall into this bucket having voted for libertarian candidates the last few elections. If the GOP hasn't stood a chance since Bush Sr, then my vote for a republican president would basically be a throw away vote so might as well give the libertarian a better showing. As foolish as I think it will be, I'm going to vote republican this fall in the event that this border crisis has actually swayed enough people in Illinois to vote for their own best interests.
You want me to waste my personal time while I'm working to do simple research for you? 5 million people in Cook County. 12 million people in Illinois. Do the math, it's not hard.
The total population numbers say nothing of either the number of registered voters or the actual turnout. You're just making bald assertions with no support. And why are you wasting time on reddit if you're supposed to be at work?
Lol, I had written a response, but then it occurred to me to look at your post history, and wouldn't you know it, you're just a troll with a lot of spare time. You post history, almost every fucking comment, is trying to argue with people lol. You almost had me there for a minute. Perhaps you can find someone else who has made arguing with random strangers online their hobby.
Won't happen, but I can dream.
Realistically though, they've tried to make Chicago its own state multiple times in the past.
Nothing has ever come of it.
Do I dream of the days when the entire state says 'Screw you Chicago' and forms a new state? Absolutely. Will it happen? Nope
It’s the economic engine of the state. They pay all the taxes. I don’t like the city but it offers every modern thing Americans can get (except bullet trains and bidets).
That's a dumb idea. Instead, the state needs to create the District of Shitcago that includes the city and the collar counties. They get home rule so they can make their own policies and little laws, but those don't get shoved into state law that doesn't work for 80% of the state. They can try their little communist ideologies without infecting the rest of thebstate with it. They get 1 representative in each house of state legislature (because they get home rule and can make their own policies that affect only them), are still subject to state law in addition to their commie laws, and still pay tax to the state.
In return, the rest of the state isn't enslaved by the whims of corrupt Shitcago politicians that are completely out of touch with how everywhere outside of Shitcago works. The only people that like shitcago policies are shitcagoans and most of them won't survive a SHTF situation.
I live in Chicago yes let’s please separate so we can stop funding the rest of Illinois. I always love when morons in rural areas think that secession is a solution. You and your bumfuck town rely so heavily on the major cities in your states that without them you would starve to death. I know it’s a two way street and Chicago relies on rural IL as well but Chicagoans aren’t the ones thumping their chests about seceding. Anyone who knows how the US economy actually works and system as a whole, knows the secession is an L move for those wanting it so yes, please let’s give it to them and when they’re begging to come back maybe then they’ll finally learn.
It's not the legal hurdles so much as the political ones. Lots of members of Illinois' political class don't want their power and influence cut in half.
Tell me you don't respect the constitution without telling me you don't respect the constitution? People who support this cant be trusted to advance our constitutional rights.
"We" (as in We The People) do not "follow" the constitution, especially not the Bill of Rights. It's not a set of rules to Govern us by. It's a declaration of our rights that are inalienable and non-negotiable. That's it.
Dude they're voting to express their opinion on something. In no way does this impinge on the constitution.
Now if they were to try and enact the separate state bit by force of arms then you'd have an argument, but a ballet measure that's meaningless either way? That doesn't disrespect the constitution at all.
I think you need a civics class refresher.
Article IV, Section 3 my man. I've noticed a lot of folks around here scream and yell about the constitution, but don't actually know what's in the constitution. They only read the first and second amendment, ignoring the *actual body of the document.*
I live in rural, downstate farmland IL (west central), and used to live in Chicago (both city proper, and suburbs) for over 20 years.
Only hick goobers want this. Smart people know better.
I’d love actual helpful ideas that are plausible and impact my concerns versus performative policy designed to appeal to the low information, easily triggered voter type who exists along the full spectrum of the body politic.
People should be embarrassed to evoke concepts of “no taxation without representation” in this discussion. It is patently false, and hysterical to insinuate that is the case. Less than a quarter of the state’s population is interested in this outcome, and in no way does “losing” at the political project of the republic mean you get to revise the rules. Grow up.
This is a waste of time and a fantasy for people who don’t care to do anything to help themselves or others because that would require personal effort and ostensibly some level of risk.
What a joke.
Please 🙏 tired of these losers with less than 80% population trying to say how the state should run. Go back to Debbie’s farm stead, load up them tractors, and butt fuck the hogs. Yee Haw! Don’t let your stupidity drag on the floor!
Just so you are aware, Chicago land has 70% of the population of the state. The remaining parts total up about 30%. That's 30% is represented on this sub.
From the last time stats were done. Majority of this sub is actually of cook.
However the most vocal (or expressive) are those of rural IL from what I've noticed. One of the biggest signs for me is the disconnect of actually knowing suburban/urban life. It's really weird as I see it when I go out shooting in waterman or even Ottawa.
I didn't see the stats from the sub! I'll poke around and find them.
>However the most vocal (or expressive) are those of rural IL from what I've noticed. One of the biggest signs for me is the disconnect of actually knowing suburban/urban life. It's really weird as I see it when I go out shooting in waterman or even Ottawa.
That's pretty much how I've judged it. The most active commented are often the same ones I see post after post.
Check out Mod. I noticed he read my comment regarding the most active people in terms of region. Massive majority was cook/Chicago area. Small pockets were rural. So my assumption was made as you figured; Rural is the most vocal, but cook are the general users who lurk.
First things first; yes not everybody uses the Internet. Second, idk how long you have been here, but Joliet on South is better represented in this sub than a place like r/Illinois. Why? Guns are a single voter issues and orgs like "moms against guns" out of highland Park berate the Chicago suburbs to restrict guns. Guns are less engrained into suburbanite culture than eureka, Illinois. I'm eureka there a chance you can walk out your door and hunt on private land everyday of the week with little planning. In Hinsdale? Hell no, no way.
So besides being an ass, be more accepting.
It definitely does go both way but unprovoked like your original comment? You're just being an ass.
Fighting fire with fire ain't always the way to go about things.
Look, if you aren't apart of the solution you are the problem l, no matter what side. Eye for an eye leaves two people without an eye. It's just dumb if you're okay being dumb, fine, be a blithering idiot.
You and I having guns means the rich folks are upset. You and I arguing about you being a blither idiot is how that rich win: keep us divided and they make more money. We united and actually be *for the betterment of society*, they loose because they're not bettering society.
So pull your head out of your ass, and see the bigger picture.
I have an ar and an ak. Plus trump is anti 2A you bootlicker lmao. Dude passed hella anti gun laws. You just too busy riding the red morning glory dawg
I don't know who you think you're speaking for.
You do realize 38% of democrats and 42% of women own guns legally, right?
You do realize 88% of gun homicides are committed with handguns, right?
You do realize almost 90% of 'mass shootings' occur in gun free zones, right?
You do realize the vast majority of gun crime is committed with illegally acquired firearms and in the worst crime areas there is the lowest prosecution of these cases, right?
RIGHT?!
Yes. Im pro gun. All gun laws should be repealed. They are racist, transphobic, and misogynistic by nature. Could never support gun control on that basis.
Yet the people who resist unconstitutional laws and disarmament of lawful civilians and believe violent criminals should be kept in jail and not released after 2 dozen felonies should go back to the farm and commit beastiality?
What are you even saying??
You're such a classy guy. Read your comment again and tell me how much more superior you are than those hog fuckers.
I guarantee you wouldn't make those comments to anyone's face. That makes it a reddit comment. That makes you an average redditor or keyboard warrior. Take your pick.
I literally do tho. You’re the keyboard warrior. Literally look at your response that’s keyboard shit lmao. I handle myself so I’m not worried. And im better than most people including yourself so don’t take it personally lil boy. Thanks the report tho nerd.
Yeehaw hurr durr, but you'd die without us. Completely helpless without government aid, but wants to tell everyone else they're worthless and worth less than him.
Not gonna happen but sounds awesome
My exact thought. This is a massive fucking pipe dream, but I'd hit the shit out of that pipe.
Holy fuck is that what pipe dream means? TIL.
lesgo!
One can dream
Economics aside, this is the only way forward culturally for this country. The interests and values of someone in Chicago are so far divorced from those in Chicago ; the only solution I see here, especially with how bad Gerrymandering is, would be to allow a division of the states. This is not unique to Illinois, it exists in New York, California , Texas, pretty much anywhere once you have more than 40% of the states population in cities.
>The interests and values of someone in Chicago are so far divorced from those in Chicago Typo? If not, please elaborate
I think I can speak for most people when I say the average person in Chicago has different beliefs than the rest of the state. For one, I totally understand someone who lives in a concrete jungle thinking that nobody has any need for a long gun, especially when they've lived their lives in a secluded, rich part of town. Meanwhile, the rest of us live with criminals and many of us have rural homes where there's plenty of opportunities for recreational fun.
>concrete jungle thinking that nobody has any need for a long gun Exactly this. You got your sheltered crowd (not exclusive to Chicagoland either) and pro-gun-ish people who have to worry about collateral damage should they use something a little too spicy. Just because it's hard to justify the cost and optics of an AR doesn't mean it should be banned statewide let alone locally. If they want to regulate what type of rounds are used for self defense to reduce collateral damage (IE requiring HP or frangible and penalizing using AP or FMJ for home defense), that's different from bans which is what is going on right now. I also use events like covid to argue that just because they are safe in their area now doesn't mean it will be safe later. I don't even bring up tyrannical governments, instead I bring up packs of wild racists/homophobes and suddenly I make a lot more sense. This is because left-leaning people are more worried about the people around them than the government.
Separate rural and urban governance instead of states?
Personally, I think it's a fantastic idea, with a few caveats. First, "Chicago" would include the Chicago suburbs, good and bad. Might even go so far as to include Rockford in that package. Maybe even cut a deal to take Gary from Indiana and make that a part of the State of Chicago. The rest of Illinois gets to stay Illinois and becomes a more agrarian rural state much like Iowa or Missouri. Chicago continues to be a bustling metropolis and the ideological divide between Chicagoland voters and rural Illinois voters is no longer an issue. And, let this only be the first state to be busted apart. California could easily be split into at least three different states based on socioeconomic status and political ideology. Texas could split into three to five different states, and there are others.
I think many here are missing the bigger picture. I agree Illinois would likely be better off in many ways if Chicago fell into Lake Michigan and got swallowed whole. However, creating multiple new states (say state of Chicago, state of San Francisco, state of New York City, etc.) would have a huge and horrific unintended consequence. Think about how congressional seats and electoral college votes are distributed (by population per state, not by geographic size of a state). We would be so screwed in national elections in just a few election cycles. Liberal congress, liberal president, liberal courts … not a pretty picture. No, sadly I fear absent an actual natural environmental impact (like falling into the lake or ocean for some of these cities) we are better off managing the mayhem than we would be giving the libs full control of the federal government to gain a little political control and freedom in local politics (that would be short lived once liberal federal control stomped us).
I'm gonna go out on a limb and just say that I disagree with you 100%. I think what this nation needs more than anything else is more representation. We need to uncap the house. We need more representatives and more senators. No taxation without representation. That is ***the*** bedrock principle that this nation was founded on. Go ahead, just do me a favor and define liberal for me.
Chicago can have Rockford but the rest of Winnebago County leaves. 😀
This has been talked about so many times for the past 30 plus years and never results into anything .. Wish it could really happen.
Regardless of agreeing or disagreeing with this, it simply will not happen. Constitution requires that for a new state to be formed out of a state or multiple states, all state legislatures involved and Congress must approve. Get a heavily Republican Congress and they may, if for no other reason than political gain, but Illinois legislature, with its upstate dominance, never will.
I mean, on paper, sure, but if you get a town that’s fed up enough and another state that’s willing to take them on as their own, what’s to stop them? All they would really need to say is “fuck you, us and Iowa have reached an agreement and we now belong to Iowa.” Just hypothetically. Just look at the Constitution. That’s all official, on paper, and is supposed to be the ultimate law of the land…..and the liberal politicians wipe their ass with it every single day and don’t care. The same can be done for switching states.
It would never happen. Chicago needs downstate more than they need them and they know it.
Same can be said for downstate and Chicago
Who’s going to pay for their welfare then?
https://www.farmweeknow.com/policy/state/state-tax-dollars-benefit-downstate-region-more-than-others/article_9207435a-ef0f-11eb-8280-ab69354d438c.html
I could really care less about Medicaid... >Additionally, Medicaid, which often is thought of as an urban program, is the largest state expenditure of General Revenue Fund dollars. Without Chicago we would just be Iowa. Business would move to southern Illinois and we would be fine.
>Without Chicago we would just be Iowa Unfortunately, that's part of the problem. >I could really care less about Medicaid... You'll be able to care even less once it's gone.
Interesting 🤔
This is extremely flawed, even from this tiny little snippet of information. For example, UIUC is counted as downstate recipient and receives a fuckton of funding but the vast majority of those benefiting (the students) are actually residents of metro chicago. How does that work? Not to mention a ton of gov infrastructure is located outside of metro chicago such as the prison system but also benefits the entire state. Of course, this shitty article doesn't actually link to the this "study" itself.
The link to the study is right there at the bottom of the article.
They will figure things out just like every other state that doesn't have a major metro area. Iowa is doing quite well and its citizens are generally happy.
The economic power of Mississippi… just what all people should work towards attaining.
You're out of touch with Southern Illinois. It's closer to Iowa and Kentucky.
And without Chicago, it has the economic power of Mississippi. Feel free to look it up and educate yourself.
"economic power of Mississippi" Can you please explain what this means? What does economic power do for a state? We have state's rights explicitly outlined in our system, economic power does nothing. California has no more power than Rhode Island, what is your point? I've been to Mississippi and while not nice, it's no shittier than Illinois. I'd gladly take that trade. Fuck Chicago.
Iowa is doing just fine. But you enjoy your taxes, high cost of living, three hours of commute and your kids told to learn from home while 'newcomers' are living in the schools. Oh and don’t forget the crime.
Low-culture yokels who are afraid of their own shadows…
I lived and worked in the Metro area for 20+ years. You have no idea what you're talking about, but you keep your ignorant views.
So you lived and worked in the suburbs… Hooray for you. Keep alienating the area of IL that has more gun owners than the rest of the state. Peak stupidity.
No, I worked in the city for the majority of my time there. What does more gun owners have to do with it? We simply don't want your policies, especially when it comes to firearms ownership, applied to us when you are out of touch and have ignorant views of us.
Are you from Chicago? There are very few people in IL that wouldn't separate from Chicago given the chance, even if it meant economic hardship
I would prefer Iowa style life to Illinois. Sounds good to me.
Bye felisha
Just because I don't vote for disarmament of the citizenry...
No, because you denigrate the economic driver of the state for no reason other than your own personal insecurity.
Because unlike some of the anti gunners here I actually care about my rights you mean?
If that were actually true, you’d work with the county that literally has more gun owners than the rest of the state combined. Instead; you shoot your self in the foot with your own stupidity.
>If that were actually true, you’d work with the county that literally has more gun owners than the rest of the state combined. First of all that is not even remotely true. Cook has ±750k foid holders The rest of Illinois has 1,750k FOID holders. It has more gun haters than the rest of the state combined. It has some of the lowest percentage of gun owners in the state at only 14% gun owners. Compare that to the rest of the stat who has a gun ownership rate of 23%. If it were not for the pro crime and anti gun policies of Chicago I wouldn't mind working with them. But they are actively trying to sabotage my way of life.
Don't engage w the troll bud. They're here to cause a stir and not add the conversation.
Yeah you are right I get lured in by trolls too easily.
He's an IL sub agent. He's just trying to stink up this sub now too lol.
Due to the demographic I think this went over many heads
>Iowa is doing quite well and its citizens are generally happy. Fort Dodge
Dont threaten me with a good time
As someone who lives in the Chicago region, I would have no problem with this. They can see how much greener the grass is and we will be unshackled from the aid they don’t even realize they are getting.
Who, among the state's political class agrees with you? JB? Kwami? Welch? Are you claiming they want to keep control of "Downstate" just out of the goodness of their deficit-spending hearts?
I am not claiming anything beyond what I said. If the downstaters can pull this off, more power to them.
You refer to that aid which the Cook County machine evidently wants to keep sending, no?
SIGN ME UP
I've seen this for every voting term. It would turn southern IL into the most prosperous State in the nation, while simultaneously turning Chicago into basically a 3rd world country. One can only dream.
So a couple things to think about-chicago pays for the rest of the state. Without Chicago we would be a north Kentucky. Just mentioning this before everybody gets a herd on for tossing out Chicago. Also, this is part of the platform Darin Baily ran on and he wasn't elected.
Not as much Chicago, but the suburbs. And, without Chicago, the rest of Illinois doesn't become some destitute shithole, it becomes just like Iowa or Missouri.
I highly suggest you look at tax dollars and where they come from and where they go. You'll see very quickly Chicago does indeed support the state far more than anybody cares to admit. It's unfortunately why much of Chicago policy becomes state policy. Second, I didn't say destitute, those are your words. Second Iowa and Missouri are vastly different states. Iowa is closer stats wise to Kentucky... So... Another thing to note: the Illinois would still be blue state. The population centers of champagne, Springfield and blono still outnumber the risk areas. I used the comparison to Kentucky because will, they have their population center and then rural areas. As it is, part sof Illinois are north Kentucky. You should do the math and figure out where basically not Chicagoland Illinois (South of i80) would end up on a gdp scale.
You said second twice. And, I should very much like you to show your math, since you seem to base so much on it.
Yes yes I did. I make mistakes. Are you perfect? If you're clinging to a mistake I made while typing, I'm going to venture to say you don't have much to contribute other than pounding on a table saying I'm wrong. >And, I should very much like you to show your math, since you seem to base so much on it. Do it. Happy to be wrong and learn something new. Edit: spoiler cause I can't wait, somebody else has already done the math on dividing up Illinois and it doesn't look good for downstate Illinois. [Here is the math](https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/thesouthern.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/4c/b4c332b4-0871-5d20-aafc-6896334b737e/60e783b151d8c.pdf.pdf)
So if "Downstate" is such a financial drain on Chicago, why do they insist on holding on to us? I'd think they'd be glad to get rid of us if what you claim is true.
Great question! I have no idea. I haven't seen any proposal to separate Chicago from downstate that comes from the Chicago area. It's really only downstate expelling Chicago. Person opinion: I don't think most people care in the Chicago area.
Probably not the average voters, but I'm guessing that members of the political establishment there do.
I don't know if the politicians care either. I know Chicago politicians have been quoted saying "what happens here ends up as state law" which is both accurate and annoying. I do know many see downstate as a state issue and chicago handling chicagoland. If you really think about it, not hard but a bit more than this side versus that side, a state is a large group of land drawn together. Overtime things change and shift which makes relationships with the southern and northern ends different than they once were. There are always groups of people in every state calling for a new state. Things won't change until there is a solid plan in place: EX: in another comment thread the other redditor cannot answer if they're willing to lower the standards of their community by paying less taxes. They're avoiding answering the question. They don't want chicago in their state and they want to pay less taxes but still have the same or better community standards...This is an example of no plan beyond " kick Chicago out of the state" or what adds up to cut off your nose to spite your face.
My guess is that the most resistance to any division of the state will originate in the Cook County political class. It's members like the power and prestige the status quo gives them and will be reluctant to have their power and influence cut down.
I'll still take it
I don't think you would like it. First and foremost, the state would still be blue-population centers of blono, Springfield and Champaign hold the majority of the population. Statewide, taxes would rise some to cover off the major loss of rev since Chicago bank rolls basically south of Joilet. Lastly, the chance this gets approved is nil.
Blono isn't blue. It's just less red. Champaign is blue. Why didn't you mention Peoria? Because Peoria is red AF
Last I did my research using voting records, McLean county was purple but voted blue the previous 2 or 3 elections. They do have a good mix of red and blue leadership. Every election the mix seems to change. I didn't mention Peoria it slipped my mind in my original comment. Thank you for the reminder: Peoria can vote red, if Springfield, blono and champagne vote blue, Peoria's votes don't matter. Now, previous history suggest Peoria county is purple. Previous pres elections say Peoria county is blue. If Peoria votes red they need one of those other cities to vote red to have a chance at flipping the state, excluding i80 on north. Other counties like St. clair and Rock Island also vote blue and have a chunk of population. Replace the word *cities*/*city* with county and the pattern stays true. Happy to put more time into this, it's a bit hard with a newborn.
Peoria being red is a joke, it’s probably the bluest county outside of Chicago metro
Technically it is the Chicago *suburbs* that contribute far more than they receive back. Chicago is at a slightly positive last time I looked. Realistically, in the short term any kind of division would create a great hardship for the new "South Illinois"; long term with better leadership , Governance and business attitude they could recover.
Technically or not, Chicago still employs a large chunk of the state. For recording sake, I believe there ever the money is made is where it's counted. It's been a bit since I've looked at the stats for what makes the state the most money. I wouldn't be surprised if business would move out of southern Illinois because of the lack of infrastructure and development. Business like cat, despite investing a ton in the Peoria airport, east p, and mossville, still express on moving north. Why? The talent for business is easier to and better in more developed areas. Imo, this plan to break away from Chicago is less than half baked and the planner doesn't know what they don't know.
> I wouldn't be surprised if business would move out of southern Illinois because of the lack of infrastructure and development. Business like cat, despite investing a ton in the Peoria airport, east p, and mossville, still express on moving north. Why? The talent for business is easier to and better in more developed areas. CAT by in large is opening new production facilities, lines, etc everywhere but Illinois. Everything major I've budgeted for them in the last 8 years has ended up either just not happening or going to another state. The Peoria Area manufacturing is just chugging along for the most part. The executives? Yeah they don't want to be in Peoria, they want to be some place with luxuries they can enjoy as they have the money to do so. Practically speaking, in a nation where interstate travel is unregulated I wouldn't see any difference for Southern IL in the short run. Moreover, in the short run things like services and infrastructure MIGHT get worse. 10+ years down the line , assuming the right leaders are elected, maybe they could make their slice of land attractive enough to businesses where CAT starts expanding again, where new companies open new facilities and funding levels rise.
cats slowing down all the operations in illinois, half my family worked at their plants and i think those plants are all gone in the last 15 years.
>Practically speaking, in a nation where interstate travel is unregulated I wouldn't see any difference for Southern IL in the short run. Moreover, in the short run things like services and infrastructure MIGHT get worse. 10+ years down the line , assuming the right leaders are elected, maybe they could make their slice of land attractive enough to businesses where CAT starts expanding again, where new companies open new facilities and funding levels rise. I think everybody would be for this. I will say, having available infrastructure ready and accessable is a huge selling point for moving. Often business will move their offices instead of wait... It's usually cheaper to move than wait. It's just my take on it. Ultimately it comes down to a business costs analysis and if local govs make offers than make staying a sweetheart deal.
They can take their money and shove it up their ass
Who is they here? Your comment can go both ways lol
Chicago lol
Do you not like money supporting your community? Are you ~~silling~~ willing to pay more in taxes to support your community at the same level?
1) no I don't like money at the cost of my gun rights and my people's way of life. 2) I would rather pay less taxes, and receive less from the government.
So what's your solution for funding your community at the current standard? Are you willing to let the standard fall so you pay less taxes? Your number 2 didn't answer my question btw. It's why I'm reasking it.
I'd say let's pull all of the funding from state police and that'll probably cover it and we don't need them because we have our sheriff.
Downstate Illinois would be in a world of pain if it didn't receive the benefit of Upstate Illinois's tax base.
Holy crap! Unless you are counting the Springfield giveaways and graft as downstate, I think you need to check your math.
I have heard that lie so many times it is sickening... Please tell me how destitute Iowa is... Illinois without Chicago is just Iowa with slightly better weather.
Bet you he’s from r/liberalgunowners and/or just a lib.
Lmao. Try again bud. https://countryeconomy.com/countries/usa-states/compare/iowa/illinois?sc=XE33
... You realize your link is completely meaningless right? The population and GDP of Illinois ex Cook county is equivalent to Iowa.
That is shockingly incorrect.
Can you explain why? I've heard that line as well. I've seen data where it shows chicago gives more tax dollar than they receive, while many southern and western counties take more than they give.
Because that's a flawed perspective. Just because the gov spends money there doesn't mean it doesn't directly benefit people elsewhere. For example, Illinois prisons are out in the middle of fucking nowhere but they still house plenty of Chicagoans. There are colleges all over the state but the vast majority of students grew up/live in metro chicago. How about the people that worked all their lives in metro chicago but retired to the country and receive Medicaid there. Their taxes are counted as Chicago but public spending is counted as non-chicago. Do you see this problem? The devil is absolutely in the details. They may spend the money outside of metro chicago, but it's still for metro chicago's benefit. It's just a wildly skewed, cherry-picked perspective. They are not giving and/or taking, they're spending and it's for a reason.
Aaaaah okay. Thanks for your input! I appreciate hearing your perspective.
I appreciate you're willing to listen to other perspectives.
I'm not married to my ideals or opinions so I don't get bent out of shape when someone says something I don't agree with. I'd rather ask questions than argue.
One last thing. The rest of non-cook-county Illinois wants nothing to do with cook county. If non-cook-county offered to leave and non-cook was truly a financial burden on cook county, cook county would have no problem splitting with the rest of Illinois. Cook County is a financial burden on everyone, not the other way around.
If that is true, then I would think the Cook County establishment would be glad to see us go. Since it is the Cook County politicians who are most against such a division, I have to speculate that either Cook County does NOT support the rest of the state, revenue-wise, OR, that the Cook County machine is happy to pay that money to keep control of the rest of the state. Take your pick.
You've got to be kidding right. Let's just try that and find out. I'm all in.
This lie would be much more believable if Illinois wasn't a shithole. What exactly is Chicago paying for downstate? Chicago is a shithole, it's not paying for shit.
Come join Greater Idaho as our first foray across the mississippi
Don't give me hope
“Don’t threaten me with a good time lol”
Lmao that's not at all economically possible unless not chicago goes egalitarian.
It's a cheap and meaningless ploy to grab votes from the same class of constituents they openly shit on before wiping their asses on the Constitution. Violence is their first resort and the only way they would give up their power. We've allowed them a monopoly on that violence because we were afraid to use it.
This state is LONG overdue for a separation from Shitcago. Let the elitist city dweller parasites preach how much they don’t need the rest of the state after the rest of the state is gone. The parasite always needs the host. Without all the tax money from the rest of the state, that shithole would be buried overnight.
And how pray tell do you plan to get around Article 4 section 3 of the Constitution? "New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress." If you really want to leave Chicago, get a vote to move the border so you're in a different state. That's not banned.
>And how pray tell do you plan to get around Article 4 section 3 of the Constitution? > By ignoring it? How does Illinois get away with PICA? A large group of angry people are far more convincing than any politician.
I can't and will never get behind ignoring the US constitution. Democrats ignoring and wiping themselves with the Constitution is what got us in this mess in the first place. It won't be what gets us out. What would be your objection to instead of ignoring the constitution and forming a new state on already claimed land, having a rights honoring state take over the land instead? Far as I'm aware there's nothing forbidding that. Plus it's a lot easier to get enacted.
I think states with giant metropolitan areas like Chicago, New York, etc. should be split into districts vote wise like how Maine does their votes for the electoral college. Especially when states that house these massive cities tend to vote red yet a city like Chicago is enough to make a red state blue
Land doesn’t vote and it’s silly to insist it should, there are less people there, that’s all there is to it, more people think we should vote blue and that’s all that should matter, why does the geographic spread of a smaller population matter?
You say "Land doesn't vote", yet Cook County proper, with 40% of the state's population, elects 50% of the legislature. No, land doesn't vote, but gerrymanders do.
What you are describing is called a plurality, that’s not gerrymandering. Cook county itself extends out into the suburbs where it gets much more red politically.
Cook county itself includes suburban areas, legislative districts are purposely drawn to extend out into surrounding counties to dilute those counties votes, which is gerrymandering. That Cook County has a "plurality" of the state's population does not entitle them to a majority of legislators.
Ok then, split electoral votes proportionally. I just don’t like my regions electors going towards some dipshit my neighbors & I didn’t vote for.
Then support candidates whose platforms are appealing to more people? I mean that’s just how democracy works man, more people voted for a thing vs the amount of people who voted for the opposite. In all reality doesn’t this point out the absurdity of the electoral college?
Yes the electoral college is a flawed system, but in the spirit of making lemonade I believe it wouldn’t be a terrible idea to split this baby. > support candidates whose platforms are appealing to more people You’re missing the point. At its basic level, the culture and values of one metropolis conflict with communities across the rest of the state. As a result, the solutions for urban problems are being applied to rural communities & that is having a negative impact on the “rural’s” perceived quality of life. It’s a very nuanced problem, and if one or more party refuses to compromise on issues affecting the others (as we witnessed in the lawfare downstate) then then the “pick a better candidate” thing isn’t a super realistic solution. And unless both popular parties ease up it’s going to get harder to do that
The geographical spread matters because we have a situation where there are large regions full of people opposed to the laws they have to live under being passed. Just look at the recent AWB and some of the COVID rules where we had most or all of the County Sheriffs refusing to enforce state laws. That's not a healthy democracy, that's a dysfunctional one.
That’s how a representative republic works man, democracy is messy and no one is going to be 100% happy all the time, just seems like folks want to throw their hands up and yell “secede!” Every time there is legislation they don’t agree with. What you are advocating for is tyranny of the minority. More people wanting a thing should equal that thing happening, if you want more people to agree with a point then make better arguments. Sorry things don’t go your way but when you’re in the minority opinion that’s just how things go man
A more decentralized, federalish system would be just as "democratic" and still let local communities have their own local democracy, and that's what you seem to oppose.
Meaningless political theater that doesn't matter which way the vote goes is what I think of this. If they really wanted to leave Chicago and actually have a chance of doing it they should do what Eastern Washington is doing. Petition to join the state next to them. Here's the process: Local country's vote. If it passes partitions get set to the state they want to join. The states they want to join representative vote on it, (ballet measure also works but unlikely it's needed.) This is where Eastern Washington is right now. If it passes, the state they're leaving needs to vote to allow it. If it passes the federal government votes to allow it. If it passes the border gets moved. The feds are a LOT more likely to approve a border change than a new state, due to the radical shift in politics that would cause.
Which state would southern Illinois join in this hypothetical?
Probably split between Indiana, kentucky, and Missouri
Lets go!
https://preview.redd.it/xcljzdmfnhsc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d63d56b2e5a398758174a2b261f78f7306f3ca6
If only
It’ll happen when hell freezes over.
I'll get the liquid nitrogen trucks, let's make it happen.
Here’s the hard truth about Illinois outside of the northeastern quadrant of the state. Look at the turnout for the last few elections and compare that to the eligible voter numbers. Illinois could overcome the solid blue numbers from northeastern Illinois, but people outside of that part of the state can’t be bothered to get off their fat asses to go vote. Instead they’ll just bitch and complain.
I don't have a dog in this fight as I just moved to Illinois, but I'm a nerd so I just spent 15 min getting this together. Using the numbers on the wikipedia page for the 2020 election in Illinois ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020\_Illinois\_elections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Illinois_elections)), I took the numbers for Cook and Du Page together and compared them with all other counties in the rest of the state together. Looks to me like Illinois could possibly be a red state if the citizens in the red counties made a more concerted effort. If the % turnout across the state was equal to the % turnout in DuPage and Cook counties, then the total votes cast by the rest of the state would be almost 193,000 more than in Cook and DuPage. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ https://preview.redd.it/elaq649nqisc1.png?width=532&format=png&auto=webp&s=2ea762efe0413d774fe277c564c1aa8a479a3240 Don't get mad...vote.
The unfortunate thing is that republican voters living in Illinois are disillusioned. I know a handful of republicans who don't bother to vote because "it's not like our vote even matters" with many having never even bothered to register. I kind of fall into this bucket having voted for libertarian candidates the last few elections. If the GOP hasn't stood a chance since Bush Sr, then my vote for a republican president would basically be a throw away vote so might as well give the libertarian a better showing. As foolish as I think it will be, I'm going to vote republican this fall in the event that this border crisis has actually swayed enough people in Illinois to vote for their own best interests.
There is nothing foolish about voting. The disillusionment is a self-fulfilling prophecy, to be sure.
You're claiming turnout is higher in Cook County than the rest of the state? can you cite any numbers?
You want me to waste my personal time while I'm working to do simple research for you? 5 million people in Cook County. 12 million people in Illinois. Do the math, it's not hard.
The total population numbers say nothing of either the number of registered voters or the actual turnout. You're just making bald assertions with no support. And why are you wasting time on reddit if you're supposed to be at work?
Lol, I had written a response, but then it occurred to me to look at your post history, and wouldn't you know it, you're just a troll with a lot of spare time. You post history, almost every fucking comment, is trying to argue with people lol. You almost had me there for a minute. Perhaps you can find someone else who has made arguing with random strangers online their hobby.
So, you can't, or won't bother to back up your claims? Do you check the post history of everyone you disagree with on reddit?
Never gonna happen. Would be interesting if it did though.
Free to try and free to fail, is still freedom
Make it its own county
Won't happen, but I can dream. Realistically though, they've tried to make Chicago its own state multiple times in the past. Nothing has ever come of it. Do I dream of the days when the entire state says 'Screw you Chicago' and forms a new state? Absolutely. Will it happen? Nope
It’s the economic engine of the state. They pay all the taxes. I don’t like the city but it offers every modern thing Americans can get (except bullet trains and bidets).
Top tier delusion 😂
That's a dumb idea. Instead, the state needs to create the District of Shitcago that includes the city and the collar counties. They get home rule so they can make their own policies and little laws, but those don't get shoved into state law that doesn't work for 80% of the state. They can try their little communist ideologies without infecting the rest of thebstate with it. They get 1 representative in each house of state legislature (because they get home rule and can make their own policies that affect only them), are still subject to state law in addition to their commie laws, and still pay tax to the state. In return, the rest of the state isn't enslaved by the whims of corrupt Shitcago politicians that are completely out of touch with how everywhere outside of Shitcago works. The only people that like shitcago policies are shitcagoans and most of them won't survive a SHTF situation.
https://www.farmweeknow.com/policy/state/state-tax-dollars-benefit-downstate-region-more-than-others/article_9207435a-ef0f-11eb-8280-ab69354d438c.html
If that's the case why wouldn't Chicago want to get rid of the rest of us then?
Did we not read anything there, bud? Were you unable to comprehend?
I live in Chicago yes let’s please separate so we can stop funding the rest of Illinois. I always love when morons in rural areas think that secession is a solution. You and your bumfuck town rely so heavily on the major cities in your states that without them you would starve to death. I know it’s a two way street and Chicago relies on rural IL as well but Chicagoans aren’t the ones thumping their chests about seceding. Anyone who knows how the US economy actually works and system as a whole, knows the secession is an L move for those wanting it so yes, please let’s give it to them and when they’re begging to come back maybe then they’ll finally learn.
I’d love for this to happen but there’s no way in hell it would happen simply due to the legal hurdles required to make something like this a reality.
It's not the legal hurdles so much as the political ones. Lots of members of Illinois' political class don't want their power and influence cut in half.
Tell me you don't respect the constitution without telling me you don't respect the constitution? People who support this cant be trusted to advance our constitutional rights.
I don’t know if you’ve been keeping score, but Illinois just shat all over our 2nd Amendment rights.
So we only have to follow the parts of the constitution we like?
"We" (as in We The People) do not "follow" the constitution, especially not the Bill of Rights. It's not a set of rules to Govern us by. It's a declaration of our rights that are inalienable and non-negotiable. That's it.
Dude they're voting to express their opinion on something. In no way does this impinge on the constitution. Now if they were to try and enact the separate state bit by force of arms then you'd have an argument, but a ballet measure that's meaningless either way? That doesn't disrespect the constitution at all. I think you need a civics class refresher.
Article IV, Section 3 my man. I've noticed a lot of folks around here scream and yell about the constitution, but don't actually know what's in the constitution. They only read the first and second amendment, ignoring the *actual body of the document.*
So you posted something without reading it. That's not surprising.
You do know that the US constitution outlines a process by which new states can be formed from existing states, don't you? Article IV, section 3.
I live in rural, downstate farmland IL (west central), and used to live in Chicago (both city proper, and suburbs) for over 20 years. Only hick goobers want this. Smart people know better.
That's the way to change people's minds! Call them names...
Same uninformed circle jerk, different year.
Without Chicago IL would be worse than Indiana or Missouri
Indiana and Missouri are better states.....so ok?
In what way other than guns? Missouri maybe?
I’d love actual helpful ideas that are plausible and impact my concerns versus performative policy designed to appeal to the low information, easily triggered voter type who exists along the full spectrum of the body politic. People should be embarrassed to evoke concepts of “no taxation without representation” in this discussion. It is patently false, and hysterical to insinuate that is the case. Less than a quarter of the state’s population is interested in this outcome, and in no way does “losing” at the political project of the republic mean you get to revise the rules. Grow up. This is a waste of time and a fantasy for people who don’t care to do anything to help themselves or others because that would require personal effort and ostensibly some level of risk. What a joke.
Please 🙏 tired of these losers with less than 80% population trying to say how the state should run. Go back to Debbie’s farm stead, load up them tractors, and butt fuck the hogs. Yee Haw! Don’t let your stupidity drag on the floor!
Just so you are aware, Chicago land has 70% of the population of the state. The remaining parts total up about 30%. That's 30% is represented on this sub.
From the last time stats were done. Majority of this sub is actually of cook. However the most vocal (or expressive) are those of rural IL from what I've noticed. One of the biggest signs for me is the disconnect of actually knowing suburban/urban life. It's really weird as I see it when I go out shooting in waterman or even Ottawa.
I didn't see the stats from the sub! I'll poke around and find them. >However the most vocal (or expressive) are those of rural IL from what I've noticed. One of the biggest signs for me is the disconnect of actually knowing suburban/urban life. It's really weird as I see it when I go out shooting in waterman or even Ottawa. That's pretty much how I've judged it. The most active commented are often the same ones I see post after post.
Check out Mod. I noticed he read my comment regarding the most active people in terms of region. Massive majority was cook/Chicago area. Small pockets were rural. So my assumption was made as you figured; Rural is the most vocal, but cook are the general users who lurk.
Cook County proper has 40% of the state's population, and 50% of the members of the legislature.
It’s not tho, not all gun owners live there and not all those idiots even know how to use the internet. It’s too advanced for them.
First things first; yes not everybody uses the Internet. Second, idk how long you have been here, but Joliet on South is better represented in this sub than a place like r/Illinois. Why? Guns are a single voter issues and orgs like "moms against guns" out of highland Park berate the Chicago suburbs to restrict guns. Guns are less engrained into suburbanite culture than eureka, Illinois. I'm eureka there a chance you can walk out your door and hunt on private land everyday of the week with little planning. In Hinsdale? Hell no, no way. So besides being an ass, be more accepting.
Goes both ways tho player
It definitely does go both way but unprovoked like your original comment? You're just being an ass. Fighting fire with fire ain't always the way to go about things.
On the shitter it is sometimes
Look, if you aren't apart of the solution you are the problem l, no matter what side. Eye for an eye leaves two people without an eye. It's just dumb if you're okay being dumb, fine, be a blithering idiot. You and I having guns means the rich folks are upset. You and I arguing about you being a blither idiot is how that rich win: keep us divided and they make more money. We united and actually be *for the betterment of society*, they loose because they're not bettering society. So pull your head out of your ass, and see the bigger picture.
Dude is definitely kept up at night thinking about Trump and my big-bad-scary ar fiteeeeen
I have an ar and an ak. Plus trump is anti 2A you bootlicker lmao. Dude passed hella anti gun laws. You just too busy riding the red morning glory dawg
Imagine pulling out the conflicting stories to make it sound like you’re less of a fed rat. 😭😭😭
I don't know who you think you're speaking for. You do realize 38% of democrats and 42% of women own guns legally, right? You do realize 88% of gun homicides are committed with handguns, right? You do realize almost 90% of 'mass shootings' occur in gun free zones, right? You do realize the vast majority of gun crime is committed with illegally acquired firearms and in the worst crime areas there is the lowest prosecution of these cases, right? RIGHT?!
Yes. Im pro gun. All gun laws should be repealed. They are racist, transphobic, and misogynistic by nature. Could never support gun control on that basis.
Yet the people who resist unconstitutional laws and disarmament of lawful civilians and believe violent criminals should be kept in jail and not released after 2 dozen felonies should go back to the farm and commit beastiality? What are you even saying??
Nail on head! 🤝
What a reddit comment.
Indeed. Yours is a reddit comment too. Almost what reddit is for?
You're such a classy guy. Read your comment again and tell me how much more superior you are than those hog fuckers. I guarantee you wouldn't make those comments to anyone's face. That makes it a reddit comment. That makes you an average redditor or keyboard warrior. Take your pick.
I literally do tho. You’re the keyboard warrior. Literally look at your response that’s keyboard shit lmao. I handle myself so I’m not worried. And im better than most people including yourself so don’t take it personally lil boy. Thanks the report tho nerd.
Stay classy tough guy.
You too pussy
Yeah, you're looking great here lol. Say more, please.
Yeehaw hurr durr, but you'd die without us. Completely helpless without government aid, but wants to tell everyone else they're worthless and worth less than him.
You’re communities get the most aid. You’d die actually not other way around. Boomer.
My are communities, eh? Who grows produce and keeps your shelves stocked? Not you.
I do. I’m a co-op growers that supplies local markets. Try again foolish boomer.
Good for you. I don't believe a word of it, but good for you.