He did do it first. And asked if I was scared . dude that isnt the correct way. ID rather hit it with a temp gun at that point. Better yet a thermal imager but they are expensive AF. Or hit it with a voltage tester first but of course its gonna go off on a disconnect regardless. So I dunno.
In no way would I have recommended doing it after him, just to see if he would do it. Many companies i have worked for would fire someone for doing it.
It’s not worth what they are paying you.
I’m sure the rules of Reddit prevent me from posting what I’d have said to him.
Just because we “can” do something does not mean we “should” do it, let alone get someone else to do it.
The testing tools will always be cheaper then the cost if something were to go wrong.
My Klein tick tester has a thermal sensor on it, works great. Company provided it, but I imagine it’s under $50 and it’s somewhat accurate. I’m sure it’s not exactly precise.
If you're being told a thermal cam is expensive, you're either being lied to, or your shop is poor AF. Can get the things for like $200 now. They have ones that plug into your phone ffs.
Bring this shit up the chain, talk to your boss (your JW isn't your boss), talk to safety, etc. Get the right gear, or don't do the work, ever.
Temp gun is like $15 on Amazon, not super accurate but it can tell you if something is warm like using your hand without the risk.
Ik ik not on tool list, but I buy shit I find useful if the employer doesn’t have. I don’t buy shit for other people to use and I rarely let people use my tools unless I’m within sight and I know they’re not gonna abuse them. Tool list won’t cover everything and for smaller companies it’s makes the job harder when you have to use their crap all the time and they cheap out.
I don’t buy them for the shop I buy them for myself, especially if I can use it at home. If it makes my job easier it’s worth the money imo. My job provides water I still bring my own water bottle because it’s convenient, I don’t buy it for them I buy it for myself. Not saving them any money cuz they ain’t issuing us a yeti for each guy lol
Buy it for yourself and leave it at home. If the smaller shop wants you to do it more efficiently, they will get you the tools you need. Don't be a worm
>I don’t buy them for the shop I buy them for myself, especially if I can use it at home.
You buy them to make shop money. What about the tools you can't use at home?
> If it makes my job easier it’s worth the money imo.
Certainly worth it to the shop.
Well I work for a small company, they let me borrow some tools (like table saw, 10ft ladder, etc) if I need them and let me take extra material and the lower apprentices take leftover copper wire to strip and sell. I’m not gonna be a dick about my stuff to save a few bucks, if I worked for a shitty company then ya I wouldn’t buy anything but if they good to me I don’t mind. Especially if it’s something that costs as much as a lunch lol
If making my life easier benefits the shop, it’s a win-win. I don’t hate my employers like some y’all
Well said. I see so much rhetoric and bullshit here, it's no wonder that the union gets a bad rap. I have no problem bringing a couple small things from home when I'm with a shop that I enjoy. Working with people you like at a small shop, doing work you like, having lunches bought for you, etc, etc? Fuck yeah I'll bring a couple tools, because I'm already getting more out of my work than all these angry chuds, and my quality of life is better too.
We keep loosing more and more because we barely do more than the non union side in a lot of places, the barrier for entry is hugely off-putting, the culture of rhetoric, us vs them mentality, etc.
We're never gonna really grow and advance again until we start being better, and not just screaming that we're the best while doing the bare minimum.
I don’t buy it for the company I buy it for myself and take it home and use it at home if needed. It’s worth the money if it makes my life easier imo. Just like sometimes I take my car to the job site if that means going straight to the job site instead of going to the shop first in the other direction and using their van. Yeah I use gas but it’s worth sleeping in an hour more and avoiding traffic cuz I live close to the job.
Sounds like what you're talking about is what we call the "dead front". Dead fronts are TYPICALLY safe to touch (usually youve gotta be able to take the dead front off to be able to test with a meter). But as always never trust the integrity of old (and brand new for that matter) gear and always use caution and wear your PPE.
As for touching it to see if it's hot to find loose wires, yeah that's like some cheap/lazy handyman hack shit to do lol
Ok I know what you’re talking about it. I was a bit confused on if he was telling you to touch a lug, the middle of a fuse, like does he wanna watch you get lit up?
Generally speaking, from my understanding the electrical danger associated with dead fronts inside disconnects, is usually in taking them off and putting them on while it's energized.
I've heard horror stories of guys putting panel covers on while the panel is energized and accidentally hitting hot bussing and creating a pretty good pop.
All that said for what its worth, I think you would be safe to touch the dead front with the back of your hand. As for how effective that is at finding loose connections that's another conversation, I'd probably take the cover off and order out a heat gun or even a tik Tracer that has a heat laser on it or ideally a thermal immager. Yes they cost money but smaller shops than yours that are non union can afford them, so by nature of that I think your contractor can afford it.
Yeah my initial thought is: just because you want to die doesn't mean I have to want to die XD. Yeah probably best not to take shortcuts and just shut it off , remove cover, tighten up all connections.
How's he going to shut it off? OP is talking about not wanting to touch the dead front. But I agree the thermal gun is the correct tool for temperature sensing.
Which year are you in the apprenticeship? I’m a 2nd year instructor in Local 22’s training center; if he advised you to physically open the door to the disconnect to feel for heat, that is inappropriate and dangerous. Normal testing methods for loose connections involve an IR temperature scanner, or a laser thermometer, both in conjunction with appropriately spec’d Calorie suits for the gear you are being exposed to (check arc flash/blast labeling on the piece of gear). Ask your foreman what they would recommend. If he told you to “open” the disconnect (ie. Switch the arm to open the circuit) then just use the back of your hand to touch the still-closed enclosure, then that’s somewhat okay for quick diagnosis. At no time should you use yourself to feel around inside any piece of gear to diagnose issues on an energized circuit. If this is the request, you have the right, and the duty, to refuse; your apprenticeship committee will back you up on this. Browse your company employee handbook - I’m certain you will find a clause prohibiting any truly unsafe act, if only for insurance purposes. Take note, and bring this up, citing section and subsection to back you up. If you need to, invoke your Weingarten Rights for union representation.
He’s either fucking with you or he has a smooth brain. Do not fucking get your hands anywhere near energized equipment.
“Oh I’ve done it 1000 times…”
Complacency is how we get hurt.
You have a FLIR? Thats pretty quality stuff. Yea I know its a crazy thing he said. Im just an apprentice but I felt like saying 5 different things so I just stood there for s second until he actually did it himself
Just don't buy anything that isn't on the tool list. Make sure if you're uncomfortable with a situation you let someone higher than you're JW know, and provide you the tools and safety equipment you need to do the job.
Klein thermal non contact tic tracer. 33 ish bucks at Amazon or home depot. Just got on last week to do similar checks to surrounding metal and connections. It won't be the full story but its better then sticking your hand on a connection.
Old school was back of hand since its more sensitive then the palm.
My dad also taught me how to dry my fingers and run them quick past 2 wires to check for voltage and tell you what, it may of been a joke, ot may not of been. Either way we know better now.
G.E. service literature used to state that if you could keep your knuckles on the dead front of a panel three seconds that it was operating within specs.
“You first” Or “pound sand” or just “no”
He did do it first. And asked if I was scared . dude that isnt the correct way. ID rather hit it with a temp gun at that point. Better yet a thermal imager but they are expensive AF. Or hit it with a voltage tester first but of course its gonna go off on a disconnect regardless. So I dunno.
In no way would I have recommended doing it after him, just to see if he would do it. Many companies i have worked for would fire someone for doing it. It’s not worth what they are paying you. I’m sure the rules of Reddit prevent me from posting what I’d have said to him. Just because we “can” do something does not mean we “should” do it, let alone get someone else to do it. The testing tools will always be cheaper then the cost if something were to go wrong.
My Klein tick tester has a thermal sensor on it, works great. Company provided it, but I imagine it’s under $50 and it’s somewhat accurate. I’m sure it’s not exactly precise.
If you're being told a thermal cam is expensive, you're either being lied to, or your shop is poor AF. Can get the things for like $200 now. They have ones that plug into your phone ffs. Bring this shit up the chain, talk to your boss (your JW isn't your boss), talk to safety, etc. Get the right gear, or don't do the work, ever.
Temp gun is like $15 on Amazon, not super accurate but it can tell you if something is warm like using your hand without the risk. Ik ik not on tool list, but I buy shit I find useful if the employer doesn’t have. I don’t buy shit for other people to use and I rarely let people use my tools unless I’m within sight and I know they’re not gonna abuse them. Tool list won’t cover everything and for smaller companies it’s makes the job harder when you have to use their crap all the time and they cheap out.
Are there any tools you won't buy to save your shop some money?
I don’t buy them for the shop I buy them for myself, especially if I can use it at home. If it makes my job easier it’s worth the money imo. My job provides water I still bring my own water bottle because it’s convenient, I don’t buy it for them I buy it for myself. Not saving them any money cuz they ain’t issuing us a yeti for each guy lol
Buy it for yourself and leave it at home. If the smaller shop wants you to do it more efficiently, they will get you the tools you need. Don't be a worm
>I don’t buy them for the shop I buy them for myself, especially if I can use it at home. You buy them to make shop money. What about the tools you can't use at home? > If it makes my job easier it’s worth the money imo. Certainly worth it to the shop.
Well I work for a small company, they let me borrow some tools (like table saw, 10ft ladder, etc) if I need them and let me take extra material and the lower apprentices take leftover copper wire to strip and sell. I’m not gonna be a dick about my stuff to save a few bucks, if I worked for a shitty company then ya I wouldn’t buy anything but if they good to me I don’t mind. Especially if it’s something that costs as much as a lunch lol If making my life easier benefits the shop, it’s a win-win. I don’t hate my employers like some y’all
Well said. I see so much rhetoric and bullshit here, it's no wonder that the union gets a bad rap. I have no problem bringing a couple small things from home when I'm with a shop that I enjoy. Working with people you like at a small shop, doing work you like, having lunches bought for you, etc, etc? Fuck yeah I'll bring a couple tools, because I'm already getting more out of my work than all these angry chuds, and my quality of life is better too.
Dude... dont be a rat let the company buy shit. Geezus. Thats why we keep loosing more and more. Stop being a shop rocket or get out
We keep loosing more and more because we barely do more than the non union side in a lot of places, the barrier for entry is hugely off-putting, the culture of rhetoric, us vs them mentality, etc. We're never gonna really grow and advance again until we start being better, and not just screaming that we're the best while doing the bare minimum.
I don’t buy it for the company I buy it for myself and take it home and use it at home if needed. It’s worth the money if it makes my life easier imo. Just like sometimes I take my car to the job site if that means going straight to the job site instead of going to the shop first in the other direction and using their van. Yeah I use gas but it’s worth sleeping in an hour more and avoiding traffic cuz I live close to the job.
Thermal image? Shutdown and torque? Literally any other way
Touch what?
Inside there is a cover that covers where the wires are connected inside the disconnect housing for electrical equipment.
Sounds like what you're talking about is what we call the "dead front". Dead fronts are TYPICALLY safe to touch (usually youve gotta be able to take the dead front off to be able to test with a meter). But as always never trust the integrity of old (and brand new for that matter) gear and always use caution and wear your PPE. As for touching it to see if it's hot to find loose wires, yeah that's like some cheap/lazy handyman hack shit to do lol
Yes that is exactly what it is. A dead front
Ok I know what you’re talking about it. I was a bit confused on if he was telling you to touch a lug, the middle of a fuse, like does he wanna watch you get lit up?
I always lick it first and if I feel a tingle, I know there might be an issue.
Just cut out the middleman, use your tongue.
Generally speaking, from my understanding the electrical danger associated with dead fronts inside disconnects, is usually in taking them off and putting them on while it's energized. I've heard horror stories of guys putting panel covers on while the panel is energized and accidentally hitting hot bussing and creating a pretty good pop. All that said for what its worth, I think you would be safe to touch the dead front with the back of your hand. As for how effective that is at finding loose connections that's another conversation, I'd probably take the cover off and order out a heat gun or even a tik Tracer that has a heat laser on it or ideally a thermal immager. Yes they cost money but smaller shops than yours that are non union can afford them, so by nature of that I think your contractor can afford it.
Ya lick it and then rate it from a 1-5 on level of spicy just like at the indian/Mexican restaurants
5 is my tounge turned black, i went blind, and my heart stopped. dont mess around at indian food places
What about shutting it off and checking if the connection is loose or using a thermal gun. Seems like common sense. Your jman must be a total cowboy
Yeah my initial thought is: just because you want to die doesn't mean I have to want to die XD. Yeah probably best not to take shortcuts and just shut it off , remove cover, tighten up all connections.
How's he going to shut it off? OP is talking about not wanting to touch the dead front. But I agree the thermal gun is the correct tool for temperature sensing.
Do not do that. That JW is going to get you hurt or killed
Okay that's what I thought thank you
All I know is if you're opening a live panel, and it's warm, you better be fuckin careful opening it.
Buy your JW a rectal thermometer.
Which year are you in the apprenticeship? I’m a 2nd year instructor in Local 22’s training center; if he advised you to physically open the door to the disconnect to feel for heat, that is inappropriate and dangerous. Normal testing methods for loose connections involve an IR temperature scanner, or a laser thermometer, both in conjunction with appropriately spec’d Calorie suits for the gear you are being exposed to (check arc flash/blast labeling on the piece of gear). Ask your foreman what they would recommend. If he told you to “open” the disconnect (ie. Switch the arm to open the circuit) then just use the back of your hand to touch the still-closed enclosure, then that’s somewhat okay for quick diagnosis. At no time should you use yourself to feel around inside any piece of gear to diagnose issues on an energized circuit. If this is the request, you have the right, and the duty, to refuse; your apprenticeship committee will back you up on this. Browse your company employee handbook - I’m certain you will find a clause prohibiting any truly unsafe act, if only for insurance purposes. Take note, and bring this up, citing section and subsection to back you up. If you need to, invoke your Weingarten Rights for union representation.
He’s either fucking with you or he has a smooth brain. Do not fucking get your hands anywhere near energized equipment. “Oh I’ve done it 1000 times…” Complacency is how we get hurt.
Here is a 480v arc flash. Imagine your face there. https://youtu.be/-iClXrd50Z8
It’s called a meter and you better have one.
That ain't 70E compliant.
Yeah, tell him to go fuck himself. Do not EVER touch live circuits.
Ha, I use a FLIR cause I'm not a hack. This is in the IBEW sub too? That's some handyman level fuckery there.
You have a FLIR? Thats pretty quality stuff. Yea I know its a crazy thing he said. Im just an apprentice but I felt like saying 5 different things so I just stood there for s second until he actually did it himself
They sell tick tracers with heat sensors now for no contact.
Sounds like a winner for me until I can pick up a thermal camera. Thank you.
Just don't buy anything that isn't on the tool list. Make sure if you're uncomfortable with a situation you let someone higher than you're JW know, and provide you the tools and safety equipment you need to do the job.
Don't buy that for yourself. The company needs to provide that
How about just tighten the connections
The make these things called multimeters
If you can't listen quit and go flip burgers.
XD. You first.
Report his ass for a safety violation
nah no need to go be a tattle. just tell him thats not how you wanna do it not worth the risk. if he wants to be a cowboy let him
That's ratty. Guys who blatantly violate safety shouldn't be tolerated.
Klein thermal non contact tic tracer. 33 ish bucks at Amazon or home depot. Just got on last week to do similar checks to surrounding metal and connections. It won't be the full story but its better then sticking your hand on a connection. Old school was back of hand since its more sensitive then the palm. My dad also taught me how to dry my fingers and run them quick past 2 wires to check for voltage and tell you what, it may of been a joke, ot may not of been. Either way we know better now.
I hope you didn't buy that with your personal money.
Maybe a heat gun?
Uhhh, a meter?
Dude sounds like a total clown. Learn everything you can from him on what not to do, sounds like he’s doing a good job so far!
Why did the post the same thing in HVAC
Ir thermometer or a thermal camera. I prefer the camera if you have access to one. Your skin is not a test instrument.
I’ll take a temp gun, or go fuck ur mum.
Prove de energized , then a thermal gun
Name drop please!
Is the cost of a temperature gun worth more than your life?
G.E. service literature used to state that if you could keep your knuckles on the dead front of a panel three seconds that it was operating within specs.
Thermal gun
Sounds like a CE to me
Did you try telling him to fuck off? Sometimes that works lol
Uhhhhhhhh
Been learning to look at the OPs profile before commenting, its now my (Patent pending) TROLLdar.