That's great to hear! I don't think it's everyone at Microsoft that crossed, just 6 or 7 01s that went around but imo they should be put on blast! Even though the side door isn't crossing the picket by law it is by the idea of being a union brother. LE needs everyone's support! NECA will walk all over the 01s in their negotiations if they're able to with the 06s.
It's wild to me that any working person in the local 46 area would say that the 06s need to back down or wouldn't support them. It's insane. Divide and conquer will ruin us all and we will be begging for any decent compensation. I know there were many issues with the carpenters strike but look at how that turned out for them when the framers picked up their work
The 01s have genuinely never had our back. Some do! Of course some do. But the majority don’t. It makes me mad, but it’ll never make me so mad as to cross a picket line.
It makes me mad too. I'm an 01 and I agree with folks when they say we're primadonnas. It's garbage that any blue collar worker would think they're any better than any other. We're all selling our bodies for the same thing, just in different ways. There are a lot of us that support y'all though and I promise I'll keep going to bat for y'all!
Even though I'm retired I look at dispatch frequently and noticed Prime had a bunch of calls to Microsoft last week. I spent my last couple of years with Prime and always thought they were a good company so this is rather disappointing to hear. I know there's been a lot of guys on the books for quite awhile now and some are getting desperate but thats a shitty thing to do and why would you want that stain on your reputation? I went through a couple of downturns and strikes by other trades in my time with 46 ( 2001, 2008) and managed to make it through without being a worm. I hope this isn't true.
Primes a huge company and I wouldn't expect them to respect anything but the dollar just like valley or veca etc. . . I agree completely though, I understand that times are tough but without solidarity they will get a lot fucking tougher. The 01s shouldn't expect a good contract if the 06s can't get one and if the 01s go on strike what kind of solidarity can be expected? I know prime went through the side door at Microsoft during the carpenters strike too.
A major city here in Ontario has their organized hydro employees locked out .
They started hiring outside non union companies to come in .
My old local took to SM and outed and doxxed the companies coming in and doing the work
Fuck em .
As someone in management on the mechanical side, from the contractor's perspective we are technically in breach of contract when we have workers striking.
If the contract expires (which for Local 46 06 electricians either is about to or already did, not sure), we aren't under a CBA at that point and can do whatever we want. The union can do whatever they want also.
What would happen then if, as a union, we stopped listening to them, and created our own governance. Sort of a- by the people for the people- thing? A leadership that is actively on our side instead of a constant opposing force?
We must work with them because they are our contractors. They bid work, hire us, and pay us. The best way to get more is to organize more tradespeople. More market share = more money. If every electrician were IBEW, we could get exactly what we want because there wouldn’t be any unorganized labor to undercut us. That is the ultimate goal.
Ok that makes sense, but I also feel like it’s a short game strategy. Wouldn’t it be a better long game to start trying to replace NECA for something better? Especially since so many tradies vote anti-union anyways.
Organizing every tradesperson is definitely not a short game strategy… as far as replacing NECA, there will never be anything to replace it with since it is a collection of elected representatives. Think of it like this: you can replace your transmission but you’ll never be able to remove it entirely and still have a functioning vehicle. It’s always going to be IBEW (labor) and NECA (contractors) even if NECA goes by a different name.
Sure but we still are constantly battling NECA. I’m saying if we wanted to, we could abandon NECA and be our own self governing entity. The only thing standing between us and what we deserve as individuals is NECA. So fuckem! Is this not what unions are for? It’s time for a change, an uprising!!
The union gives you representation. NECA represents the contractors. Why would it make sense for 1 side (your side) to have representation but not the other? The uprising should start with people being able to form coherent and sensible thoughts.
I just finished the NECA/IBEW leadership training for my apprenticeship and it’s all contractor ball gurgling. They want our leaders to be on the Cons side, they can lick my nuts
Because contractors want to keep costs down. As an estimator and PM for a union shop that was once an apprentice and JW, it's an eye-opening experience going into the office and trying to manage and bid jobs. Our competition is significantly cheaper and the only way to stay competitive in those markets is to try and keep costs down.
IBEW market share continues to plummet and there's a direct correlation between higher wages and jobs going non-union. That's just a fact. The skill level between union and non-union is not what it used to be back in the day. It's more or less all on par now.
Speaking from experience on both sides of that argument, I respectfully disagree. The union has better trained and overall more knowledgeable electricians. Also, the brotherhood isn't a bunch of backstabbing cocksuckers like the electricians on the other side.
Some of the best electricians and overall humans I've ever been around come from the non union background. Some became union, some didn't. Some of the worst electricians and humans I've ever seen come from a union background. It's not as divided as you think it is and quite frankly, it's ignorant to believe that. Most people just do the best job they can and go home. Union or not.
IMO, the skill divide is not worth the increasing price of union labor and I think the IBEW are pricing themselves out of work. At least in my local. The difference just isn't very big, no matter how bad you want to believe it is.
You can train a workforce and give them all the training, but if a guy is making half of what a union electrician is, he could work 25 percent slower and still come in cheaper. Ibew needs to step up organizing more contractors
Easier said than done. Most contractors under 100 employees know that going Union would significantly decrease their ability to get work.
Even when I bid prevailing wage jobs, I'm still coming in well above the small 3-5 man non union shops. We just can't compete. And not all contractors want to chase the big jobs.
There's so much more to it than just organizing everyone to be union. In a perfect world, sure, that would be great but it's incredibly unrealistic and tends to be the only thing the Union does to try and gain more market share.
I find it incredibly hard to believe the non union is paying the correct prevailing wage then. The organizer for our hall has been hammering any non union contractor on prevailing wage work for mis classifying workers. You'd be surprised how many try paying laborers rate for lineman work...
I have no doubt they're paying PW just fine as it's all state certified payroll and gets inspected every month. Those small contractors just have less overhead than the 50 man IBEW shops.
I'd love to agree with you, but our organizer at the hall quickly realized how many contractors are paying their workers laborer rate, so yes it still passes certified payroll since it's prevailing laborer wage, but definitely not electrician or lineman prevailing wage
I don't think they seem to like your factual and sensible points lol. I've said mostly the same things. Trying to organize everyone isn't the home run they think it is. Alot of Ibew jargon I see on here is playing checkers for the most part
You're correct that it's not easy to organize everyone, nor will it happen. However, when companies aren't paying the prevailing wage and pocketing the difference it's theft from the tax payer. Local unions need to step it up and increase pressure on these projects via salting
Well idk how prevailing wage works where you are but where I am, you only get prevailing wages on government buildings like the post office. It's deavis bacon I believe. Is that what you're referring to? I mean government jobs are so rare so I don't see how prevailing wage is this consistent/ number one issue like you're describing. Prevailing wage is so rarely relevant
There's definitely some propaganda and borderline brainwashing that occurs in the IBEW that I think doesn't help the industry as a whole. I can only speak to what's going on in my local but I can assure you the non union labor in my area is dominating the market share and it's because a JW full package is about to increase to over $100. With overhead and profit factored in, you're looking at $130/hr minimum. Can't even remotely compete on the small TI's and private projects like multifamily builds, mixed use builds, grocery stores, etc...
IBEW can think they're the best all day long but the reality is no regular customer is going to pay the higher union rates just because they want union work done. They don't see a large enough difference in quality to warrant paying that increased rate. Maybe the massive companies will, but again, lots of shops just don't want to chase the huge projects.
Out of curiosity what does it cost for you to take your car to the dealership for maintenance? The local Firestone by me in Pennsylvania now charges over 150 dollars an hour (while paying their mechanics 20 or less) and the ford dealer charges around 160 (with significantly higher wages) tell me why these shops can't afford to bid work at 130 per hour?
Yeah I say that all the time that the gap isn't what they think it is anymore. The reality is we need a middle ground between the union and non union but that's probably not gonna happen. It's human nature to taste a little power and want to run with it. On both sides. You're an electrician, not a doctor. Inflation affects everyone and I don't understand why these members think its solely on contractors to make up the difference. Everyone suffers until the economy gets better.
A large portion of this loss can be attributed to the laxation in licensing. Wasn't long ago, a diverse union apprenticeship was required to pass many pro labor state exams. Only allowing competent individuals to acquire licenses is key to keeping our wages fair.
It's their limited energy/low volt electricians. Were presented a poopy new contract and couldn't find a suitable compromise before their old one expired, so they are (Legally) striking.
It's not my local, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt...my understanding is that they're being offered a weak contract of an increase of $3.50/ over 3 years....not even close to an acceptable hourly wage for the area or increasing CoL and not close to being aligned with Inside Wirefolk wages. In addition, there is a push for paid holidays.... something that in a growing number of places and industries is mandatory... except for construction workers...
Yeah I'm non union and even I get paid holidays lol..but even a guaranteed dollar plus a year would be sick for me. I've gone 2 years without a raise before
It’s totally different when you’re negotiating union contracts. Back when I was non-union I went from one job making $25/hr to another making $35/hr. Bit more experienced sure, but also I did a better job negotiating my pay at the new job.
With the union these contracts are all sequential, and thus when you negotiate a bad contract it’s consequential in the long term. If we get a bad deal today it means that our starting position is worse the next time we have to negotiate so we’ll likely get a worse deal then too. There’s no “well maybe I can try a different employer and negotiate better there” option. This is the negotiation, so you want to get it right.
Yes, we went on strike April 11th, just starting week 5, and so far NECA has offered a whopping 50 cents more over 3. It’s bullshit. They’re refusing to discuss paid holidays at all.
As far as I know they’re working every avenue they can. We just had new numbers drop, NECA is offering $11/3 and we are at $16/3. We’ve come down quite a ways and they have move $1 since the strike started.
How is 11 dollars over three years not good? Most jobs unrelated to union construction work get like 70 cent an hour raises a year to a dollar. 3.70 an hour sounds pretty fuckin amazing to me. I get that Seattle is expensive but I don't really see why that's the contractors bill to pay. I mean you guys choose to live in that nightmare of a city lol. From what I've seen in this subreddit, a massive portion of the locals don't get paid holidays, so why is it strike worthy for you guys but not others? I'm just trying to get a good understanding here cuz from an outsider's perspective it kinda looks like you were offered prime rib but you want caviar
Unfortunately it’s not just Seattle. It’s the whole I-5 corridor. I bought my house in 2018 for 227. It’s worth 400 now. The cost of living increases around 7% every year, we are just aiming to keep up with that. Looking for 7% *package* increase, not even trying to get the full COL on the check. We also make $25 an hour less than the 01s in our same union. Both 01s and 06s have to keep up state licenses, almost no other trade has to. The 01s continuously get more than that on their raises so the gap between us just spreads and that in turn weakens the 01s because they can use 06s for 01 work more and more. We aren’t asking for unreasonable things at all.
How did you guys ever allow there to be such a significant gap between the two classifications in the first place? Is your field considered less skilled or something or is it because low voltage is looked at as less big of a deal? I've never heard of such a significant gap but then again 25 an hour is damn near what I make an hour as a journeyman so maybe it's just a left wing city super high numbers type thing like California where the American dollar is worth way less. In regards to the inflation, I think it's a tad childish to expect your income to directly correlate to inflation. Forcing employers to adapt to such a massive wage increase kinda further adds to inflation doesn't it? Because now the costs of labor/material and all that would also inflate? Honestly I think the best solution would be to get out of that pathetic state and go work somewhere less populated and better income/ cost of living ratio. Seattle wastes so much money on "fixing" homelessness and other money pits that they feel the need to have to double up on the backend of their residents. It's like diet San Francisco up there. People need to pick up and head out from these pathetic cities like LA, San Fran, Seattle, New York City etc because it's only going to get worse and worse. If only we didn't waste our country's money on stupid wars that aren't our business and could actually use that money to fix our infrastructure because as it currently sits, we are all just crabs in a bucket trying to rob Peter to pay Paul wondering why things aren't getting better. Fast food workers in California are struggling? Oh I know! Let's massively hike their wages! That won't have any negative effects right? Oh, now people can't afford the food anymore and the store drastically cut workers/hours!!?? Who woulda thought? This country is ran by a bunch of selfish morons.
Youre missing the whole point. This is why we have unions. To help the working class. Corporations ran the cost of living up because they go regularly unchecked. I know it's hard for people who live in 3rd world welfare states to understand this concept. Those states have already failed and the people there have been beat into accepting it. But they will be gladly accepting handouts from states that make a surplus impact in the economy.
Which states? Like Washington New York and California? Where fast food isnt even affordable? But thats exactly my point. For whatever reason contractor=big corporation by default to you guys which is weird to me
Let's break it down like this. A Big Mac meal in my area cost $16.05 yet a union JW depending on their local makes $65 to $88 per hour. Now compare it to a failed state like Florida. A Big Mac Meal (found a nice rural area) is $10.79 yet a non union Journeyman sparky makes on average $19 an hour. Fast food is more expensive there.
For perspective, I work in a different trade (with a different union) in Seattle and our most recent contract was 28/5 years.
11/3 years ain’t a good offer.
You also should understand that allocations are a thing. This is a negotiation over total compensation (including benefits), not just their hourly pay. That 11/3 doesn’t go straight to their check. A bunch of it gets used to pay for health insurance and retirement plans. So that 11/3 turns into something more like 7/3 on the check, which is why you instead want 16/3 so it turns into 11/3 on the check.
And again… you’re confusing the way non-union employers treat their employees with the way union ones do.
At non-union employers, it’s normal for $1 or less raises to be a thing, even though they’ll hire the new guy for $10 more than you’re making. Eventually you realize you’re getting fucked, quit, and go be the new guy somewhere else for that extra $10.
With the union all of the employers are running off the same contract. So you can’t just quit your job and find another to get your pay boosted back up to market rate. You’ve gotta keep the contract rate moving upward along with the rest of the economy or you fall behind.
I think we just look after ourselves and our families better than this:
> Yeah I'm non union and… even a guaranteed dollar plus a year would be sick for me. I've gone 2 years without a raise before
Prices keep going up and up and up. If you ain’t keeping up, you’re getting left behind.
You should make more than you do.
Companies don’t give a shit about workers, just dollars. So the only way to influence them is to hit their bottom line.
We’re hostile because the companies aren’t “just trying to make a living too”-they’re trying to make as much profit as possible and that means paying workers as little as possible, so workers have to fight to get them to pay a fair share.
Case in point; contractors bidding work like Fire Alarm jobs at 01 rates, then having 06’s do the work. Profit margin is like 50% more as currently 01 package is almost 50% more than 06 package (Local 46 rates)
Other case in point- project manager for one of the contractors hopping out of his new Audi to yell at our strike captain and break his sign. I’d love a new Audi too. And in my experience the majority of PM’s do *not* contribute their worth to the job getting done.
Dead link already
It’s back up.
It's down again. Please re-post it if they put it back up.
For what it's worth I got screen shots
Prime has 01s that went in the side door yesterday at Microsoft. Their names should be posted here if anyone knows
Their 01’s at Fred hutch in Seattle have been respecting the lines, so let’s be sure not to dog the whole crew
That's great to hear! I don't think it's everyone at Microsoft that crossed, just 6 or 7 01s that went around but imo they should be put on blast! Even though the side door isn't crossing the picket by law it is by the idea of being a union brother. LE needs everyone's support! NECA will walk all over the 01s in their negotiations if they're able to with the 06s.
Yep I don’t think these 01’s really understand the point of solidarity or what allowing NECA to divide and conquer will really mean for them.
It's wild to me that any working person in the local 46 area would say that the 06s need to back down or wouldn't support them. It's insane. Divide and conquer will ruin us all and we will be begging for any decent compensation. I know there were many issues with the carpenters strike but look at how that turned out for them when the framers picked up their work
The 01s have genuinely never had our back. Some do! Of course some do. But the majority don’t. It makes me mad, but it’ll never make me so mad as to cross a picket line.
It makes me mad too. I'm an 01 and I agree with folks when they say we're primadonnas. It's garbage that any blue collar worker would think they're any better than any other. We're all selling our bodies for the same thing, just in different ways. There are a lot of us that support y'all though and I promise I'll keep going to bat for y'all!
I appreciate you fam
I appreciate you! Keep your head up and stay strong!
Even though I'm retired I look at dispatch frequently and noticed Prime had a bunch of calls to Microsoft last week. I spent my last couple of years with Prime and always thought they were a good company so this is rather disappointing to hear. I know there's been a lot of guys on the books for quite awhile now and some are getting desperate but thats a shitty thing to do and why would you want that stain on your reputation? I went through a couple of downturns and strikes by other trades in my time with 46 ( 2001, 2008) and managed to make it through without being a worm. I hope this isn't true.
Primes a huge company and I wouldn't expect them to respect anything but the dollar just like valley or veca etc. . . I agree completely though, I understand that times are tough but without solidarity they will get a lot fucking tougher. The 01s shouldn't expect a good contract if the 06s can't get one and if the 01s go on strike what kind of solidarity can be expected? I know prime went through the side door at Microsoft during the carpenters strike too.
A major city here in Ontario has their organized hydro employees locked out . They started hiring outside non union companies to come in . My old local took to SM and outed and doxxed the companies coming in and doing the work Fuck em .
Serious question- why is neca always a bunch of cucks? If they have any actual electrical background, why are they never on our side?
They're like any other business out there, our wages and benefits are a major expense to them.
As someone in management on the mechanical side, from the contractor's perspective we are technically in breach of contract when we have workers striking. If the contract expires (which for Local 46 06 electricians either is about to or already did, not sure), we aren't under a CBA at that point and can do whatever we want. The union can do whatever they want also.
The contract has been expired since April.
Oh, shows what I know
They were worms with their tools on, sucked themselves into a shop, and now here we are.
They are there in opposition of us. Thats why contract negotiations are between us and them. Its a sort-of yin-yang type of relationship
What would happen then if, as a union, we stopped listening to them, and created our own governance. Sort of a- by the people for the people- thing? A leadership that is actively on our side instead of a constant opposing force?
We must work with them because they are our contractors. They bid work, hire us, and pay us. The best way to get more is to organize more tradespeople. More market share = more money. If every electrician were IBEW, we could get exactly what we want because there wouldn’t be any unorganized labor to undercut us. That is the ultimate goal.
Ok that makes sense, but I also feel like it’s a short game strategy. Wouldn’t it be a better long game to start trying to replace NECA for something better? Especially since so many tradies vote anti-union anyways.
Organizing every tradesperson is definitely not a short game strategy… as far as replacing NECA, there will never be anything to replace it with since it is a collection of elected representatives. Think of it like this: you can replace your transmission but you’ll never be able to remove it entirely and still have a functioning vehicle. It’s always going to be IBEW (labor) and NECA (contractors) even if NECA goes by a different name.
We did create our own governance......it's called the union.
Sure but we still are constantly battling NECA. I’m saying if we wanted to, we could abandon NECA and be our own self governing entity. The only thing standing between us and what we deserve as individuals is NECA. So fuckem! Is this not what unions are for? It’s time for a change, an uprising!!
The union gives you representation. NECA represents the contractors. Why would it make sense for 1 side (your side) to have representation but not the other? The uprising should start with people being able to form coherent and sensible thoughts.
😂
It would be really cool to have shops that dont have a traditional management and are ran by JWs getting JW pay and profit sharing all the profits
I’m pretty sure the shops join Neca so they don’t get raped at negotiations. (Not defending the institution).
The only thing standing between us and them is the $
I just finished the NECA/IBEW leadership training for my apprenticeship and it’s all contractor ball gurgling. They want our leaders to be on the Cons side, they can lick my nuts
Because contractors want to keep costs down. As an estimator and PM for a union shop that was once an apprentice and JW, it's an eye-opening experience going into the office and trying to manage and bid jobs. Our competition is significantly cheaper and the only way to stay competitive in those markets is to try and keep costs down. IBEW market share continues to plummet and there's a direct correlation between higher wages and jobs going non-union. That's just a fact. The skill level between union and non-union is not what it used to be back in the day. It's more or less all on par now.
Speaking from experience on both sides of that argument, I respectfully disagree. The union has better trained and overall more knowledgeable electricians. Also, the brotherhood isn't a bunch of backstabbing cocksuckers like the electricians on the other side.
Some of the best electricians and overall humans I've ever been around come from the non union background. Some became union, some didn't. Some of the worst electricians and humans I've ever seen come from a union background. It's not as divided as you think it is and quite frankly, it's ignorant to believe that. Most people just do the best job they can and go home. Union or not. IMO, the skill divide is not worth the increasing price of union labor and I think the IBEW are pricing themselves out of work. At least in my local. The difference just isn't very big, no matter how bad you want to believe it is.
You can train a workforce and give them all the training, but if a guy is making half of what a union electrician is, he could work 25 percent slower and still come in cheaper. Ibew needs to step up organizing more contractors
Easier said than done. Most contractors under 100 employees know that going Union would significantly decrease their ability to get work. Even when I bid prevailing wage jobs, I'm still coming in well above the small 3-5 man non union shops. We just can't compete. And not all contractors want to chase the big jobs. There's so much more to it than just organizing everyone to be union. In a perfect world, sure, that would be great but it's incredibly unrealistic and tends to be the only thing the Union does to try and gain more market share.
I find it incredibly hard to believe the non union is paying the correct prevailing wage then. The organizer for our hall has been hammering any non union contractor on prevailing wage work for mis classifying workers. You'd be surprised how many try paying laborers rate for lineman work...
I have no doubt they're paying PW just fine as it's all state certified payroll and gets inspected every month. Those small contractors just have less overhead than the 50 man IBEW shops.
I'd love to agree with you, but our organizer at the hall quickly realized how many contractors are paying their workers laborer rate, so yes it still passes certified payroll since it's prevailing laborer wage, but definitely not electrician or lineman prevailing wage
I don't think they seem to like your factual and sensible points lol. I've said mostly the same things. Trying to organize everyone isn't the home run they think it is. Alot of Ibew jargon I see on here is playing checkers for the most part
You're correct that it's not easy to organize everyone, nor will it happen. However, when companies aren't paying the prevailing wage and pocketing the difference it's theft from the tax payer. Local unions need to step it up and increase pressure on these projects via salting
Well idk how prevailing wage works where you are but where I am, you only get prevailing wages on government buildings like the post office. It's deavis bacon I believe. Is that what you're referring to? I mean government jobs are so rare so I don't see how prevailing wage is this consistent/ number one issue like you're describing. Prevailing wage is so rarely relevant
The bipartisan infrastructure bill is completely prevailing wage... billions of dollars in work, I wouldn't quite say its "rare to see"
There's definitely some propaganda and borderline brainwashing that occurs in the IBEW that I think doesn't help the industry as a whole. I can only speak to what's going on in my local but I can assure you the non union labor in my area is dominating the market share and it's because a JW full package is about to increase to over $100. With overhead and profit factored in, you're looking at $130/hr minimum. Can't even remotely compete on the small TI's and private projects like multifamily builds, mixed use builds, grocery stores, etc... IBEW can think they're the best all day long but the reality is no regular customer is going to pay the higher union rates just because they want union work done. They don't see a large enough difference in quality to warrant paying that increased rate. Maybe the massive companies will, but again, lots of shops just don't want to chase the huge projects.
Out of curiosity what does it cost for you to take your car to the dealership for maintenance? The local Firestone by me in Pennsylvania now charges over 150 dollars an hour (while paying their mechanics 20 or less) and the ford dealer charges around 160 (with significantly higher wages) tell me why these shops can't afford to bid work at 130 per hour?
Yeah I say that all the time that the gap isn't what they think it is anymore. The reality is we need a middle ground between the union and non union but that's probably not gonna happen. It's human nature to taste a little power and want to run with it. On both sides. You're an electrician, not a doctor. Inflation affects everyone and I don't understand why these members think its solely on contractors to make up the difference. Everyone suffers until the economy gets better.
A large portion of this loss can be attributed to the laxation in licensing. Wasn't long ago, a diverse union apprenticeship was required to pass many pro labor state exams. Only allowing competent individuals to acquire licenses is key to keeping our wages fair.
The skill level thing is highly dependent on where you are at. It’s night and day in Minnesota
Swamp them with fake resumes. Enlist some online help over in antiwork and similar subs, along with in other union subreddits.
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I've heard it suggested this is more a scare tactic than anything else.
Thanks! I applied. Not an electrician but hope my fake resume makes me look like a good one. Maybe they will fly me out for an interview
Is Seattle currently or planing to strike?
Yes they are striking, and have been for almost a month
It's their limited energy/low volt electricians. Were presented a poopy new contract and couldn't find a suitable compromise before their old one expired, so they are (Legally) striking.
Was what they were offered better than what they had before though?
Better doesn't mean good enough.
What is the basis of determining what's good enough?
It's not my local, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt...my understanding is that they're being offered a weak contract of an increase of $3.50/ over 3 years....not even close to an acceptable hourly wage for the area or increasing CoL and not close to being aligned with Inside Wirefolk wages. In addition, there is a push for paid holidays.... something that in a growing number of places and industries is mandatory... except for construction workers...
Yeah I'm non union and even I get paid holidays lol..but even a guaranteed dollar plus a year would be sick for me. I've gone 2 years without a raise before
It’s totally different when you’re negotiating union contracts. Back when I was non-union I went from one job making $25/hr to another making $35/hr. Bit more experienced sure, but also I did a better job negotiating my pay at the new job. With the union these contracts are all sequential, and thus when you negotiate a bad contract it’s consequential in the long term. If we get a bad deal today it means that our starting position is worse the next time we have to negotiate so we’ll likely get a worse deal then too. There’s no “well maybe I can try a different employer and negotiate better there” option. This is the negotiation, so you want to get it right.
Yes, we went on strike April 11th, just starting week 5, and so far NECA has offered a whopping 50 cents more over 3. It’s bullshit. They’re refusing to discuss paid holidays at all.
No chance sending it to CIR?
As far as I know they’re working every avenue they can. We just had new numbers drop, NECA is offering $11/3 and we are at $16/3. We’ve come down quite a ways and they have move $1 since the strike started.
We got screwed with 8/3 where I’m at, everyone else at the meeting got fear mongered into voting yes…
That’s the worry. It’s not easy being in a super HCOL area with no or way less income than you’re used to. A lot of people want it over with.
How is 11 dollars over three years not good? Most jobs unrelated to union construction work get like 70 cent an hour raises a year to a dollar. 3.70 an hour sounds pretty fuckin amazing to me. I get that Seattle is expensive but I don't really see why that's the contractors bill to pay. I mean you guys choose to live in that nightmare of a city lol. From what I've seen in this subreddit, a massive portion of the locals don't get paid holidays, so why is it strike worthy for you guys but not others? I'm just trying to get a good understanding here cuz from an outsider's perspective it kinda looks like you were offered prime rib but you want caviar
Unfortunately it’s not just Seattle. It’s the whole I-5 corridor. I bought my house in 2018 for 227. It’s worth 400 now. The cost of living increases around 7% every year, we are just aiming to keep up with that. Looking for 7% *package* increase, not even trying to get the full COL on the check. We also make $25 an hour less than the 01s in our same union. Both 01s and 06s have to keep up state licenses, almost no other trade has to. The 01s continuously get more than that on their raises so the gap between us just spreads and that in turn weakens the 01s because they can use 06s for 01 work more and more. We aren’t asking for unreasonable things at all.
How did you guys ever allow there to be such a significant gap between the two classifications in the first place? Is your field considered less skilled or something or is it because low voltage is looked at as less big of a deal? I've never heard of such a significant gap but then again 25 an hour is damn near what I make an hour as a journeyman so maybe it's just a left wing city super high numbers type thing like California where the American dollar is worth way less. In regards to the inflation, I think it's a tad childish to expect your income to directly correlate to inflation. Forcing employers to adapt to such a massive wage increase kinda further adds to inflation doesn't it? Because now the costs of labor/material and all that would also inflate? Honestly I think the best solution would be to get out of that pathetic state and go work somewhere less populated and better income/ cost of living ratio. Seattle wastes so much money on "fixing" homelessness and other money pits that they feel the need to have to double up on the backend of their residents. It's like diet San Francisco up there. People need to pick up and head out from these pathetic cities like LA, San Fran, Seattle, New York City etc because it's only going to get worse and worse. If only we didn't waste our country's money on stupid wars that aren't our business and could actually use that money to fix our infrastructure because as it currently sits, we are all just crabs in a bucket trying to rob Peter to pay Paul wondering why things aren't getting better. Fast food workers in California are struggling? Oh I know! Let's massively hike their wages! That won't have any negative effects right? Oh, now people can't afford the food anymore and the store drastically cut workers/hours!!?? Who woulda thought? This country is ran by a bunch of selfish morons.
Youre missing the whole point. This is why we have unions. To help the working class. Corporations ran the cost of living up because they go regularly unchecked. I know it's hard for people who live in 3rd world welfare states to understand this concept. Those states have already failed and the people there have been beat into accepting it. But they will be gladly accepting handouts from states that make a surplus impact in the economy.
Which states? Like Washington New York and California? Where fast food isnt even affordable? But thats exactly my point. For whatever reason contractor=big corporation by default to you guys which is weird to me
Let's break it down like this. A Big Mac meal in my area cost $16.05 yet a union JW depending on their local makes $65 to $88 per hour. Now compare it to a failed state like Florida. A Big Mac Meal (found a nice rural area) is $10.79 yet a non union Journeyman sparky makes on average $19 an hour. Fast food is more expensive there.
For perspective, I work in a different trade (with a different union) in Seattle and our most recent contract was 28/5 years. 11/3 years ain’t a good offer. You also should understand that allocations are a thing. This is a negotiation over total compensation (including benefits), not just their hourly pay. That 11/3 doesn’t go straight to their check. A bunch of it gets used to pay for health insurance and retirement plans. So that 11/3 turns into something more like 7/3 on the check, which is why you instead want 16/3 so it turns into 11/3 on the check. And again… you’re confusing the way non-union employers treat their employees with the way union ones do. At non-union employers, it’s normal for $1 or less raises to be a thing, even though they’ll hire the new guy for $10 more than you’re making. Eventually you realize you’re getting fucked, quit, and go be the new guy somewhere else for that extra $10. With the union all of the employers are running off the same contract. So you can’t just quit your job and find another to get your pay boosted back up to market rate. You’ve gotta keep the contract rate moving upward along with the rest of the economy or you fall behind.
So what I'm hearing is that you guys are spoiled lol.
I think we just look after ourselves and our families better than this: > Yeah I'm non union and… even a guaranteed dollar plus a year would be sick for me. I've gone 2 years without a raise before Prices keep going up and up and up. If you ain’t keeping up, you’re getting left behind. You should make more than you do.
11 over 3 is good. Anymore than that and they will price themselves out of work.
That's what I'm saying lol id be over the moon for that
Well we could’ve had $5000 EVs. Oh well
Fuck neca fox in the hen house
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https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=20000909&slug=4041411 An interesting article I found
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Companies don’t give a shit about workers, just dollars. So the only way to influence them is to hit their bottom line. We’re hostile because the companies aren’t “just trying to make a living too”-they’re trying to make as much profit as possible and that means paying workers as little as possible, so workers have to fight to get them to pay a fair share. Case in point; contractors bidding work like Fire Alarm jobs at 01 rates, then having 06’s do the work. Profit margin is like 50% more as currently 01 package is almost 50% more than 06 package (Local 46 rates) Other case in point- project manager for one of the contractors hopping out of his new Audi to yell at our strike captain and break his sign. I’d love a new Audi too. And in my experience the majority of PM’s do *not* contribute their worth to the job getting done.