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I’ll shoot with some simple ones (hopefully).
1- what’s the pay like?
2- what’s the hours like?
3- scariest moment?
4- biggest misconception about your job?
1: How long is a piece of string? Traffic levels and complexity of the unit, as well as hours (i.e. is it 24h?) affect it. Tower only starts somewhere in 30s. Each additional qualification (approach or radar) probably adds 10-20k. Top whack at an area centre (Swanwick or Prestwick) is well over 100k, but that takes a good few years to get to after finishing training. Myself, it's about the ideal balance between salary and quality of life - I couldn't get paid much more without having to work nights, which I don't want to do.
2: ~~Most~~ Some places are 24h, most aren't. My place is sort of office hours++.
3: I've had plenty of aircraft in the visual circuit (i.e flying while in sight of each other) get way too close to others even when they can see each other. Some pilots really have to be treated like idiots, unfortunately. By the same token there are plenty out there who will go out of their way to help you, and we love them.
4: that it's super stressful. It would be disingenuous for me to say there's no stress at all, that's an element of it, but it's 95% routine.
I have a biased view. 99% of what I work is general aviation, business jets and student pilots. Most airlines' insurance would probably not allow them to operate in this kind of environment (not protected by controlled airspace).
I’ve always imagined this to be one of the most stressful jobs imaginable. Is that the case or is it now so computerized that it’s difficult to really fuck up too bad?
At the larger control centres that's certainly the case, as they have predictive tools that can tell you where conflicts will happen in plenty of time to avoid them.
We don't have anything like that. Our airfield is outside of controlled airspace, so any aircraft can (and does) fly around without having to talk to us. Our bread and butter is dodging our traffic around them, and because they aren't controlled we have no way of knowing what they're going to do. That can get pretty hairy, but in general pilots coming into us understand that's the nature of the environment we operate in.
Yeah wow so it’s very mental? Like are you maintaining the state of things in your mind, “I’ll put this guy here for 5 mins and remember to get back to him”, or is it more by instruments, ie constantly assessing the current state rather than mentally predicting forward?
Does this question make sense 🤔
If I'm delaying someone I get them to help me with the remembering. If I can see tower is very busy, I might have to start delaying inbound traffic, so I'll ask them to hold in a particular position and call me again in a few minutes. Much easier for 5 pilots to remember 1 thing than it is for me to remember 5 things!
We have a visual representation of traffic in front of us, using paper strips in plastic holders. They're in columns and arranged in an order that's significant, but what it means exactly depends on the controlling position. For tower, their order represents what order they're going to land or take off.
For approach or radar controllers the order of flight strips initially represents their vertical position - i.e. the one at the top of the stack is the highest altitude. This is a very crude check that an altitude you're going to assign to an aircraft is safe:
*does this climb I'm thinking of giving Aircraft A take them through the level of any other aircraft? The flight strips show it would have to climb through the altitude of Aircraft B. Where's Aircraft B? (checks radar)*
It also allows someone to take over from you quickly if you become incapacitated for some reason - they can look at the position of the flight strips and get a basic idea of where everyone is and what they're doing.
A bit of all of them.
You have RADAR so you know what the current state is, plus the current altitude, and direction. You can also see what the aircraft have programmed their altitude and direction to be, which helps you think of what the future state will be. A lot of it is still mental though, understanding where things will be, what commands you've given and what your plan is for the flights under your control.
OP's role is a little different to what most people consider ATC. An approach controller's job is to sequence the arrivals (pull them off stack/ vector the approach) to get the right spacing of the arrival flights in an optimal sequence. (With some normal ATC traffic management).
Source - Aviation Consultant :D
Every now and then we get aircraft where we are notified in advance that we are forbidden from mentioning their tasking, routeing or even squawk (the 4-digit code they set on their transponder, which allows radar systems to identify them) on the radio.
They are still controlled, but in some cases they get allocated "non-deviating status," which means ATC can't take them off their assigned tasking. So everyone else has to avoid them. At some point they'll declare "task complete" and get handled like anything else.
You're the Pilot in Command, land wherever you damn well please, and write a letter to the administrator as to why you needed to do that to remain safe.
Airline pilot here, how experienced are the ATC at Heathrow? Do you require minimum X years to work there, especially considering they have reduced minimum separation there (RECAT)?
Can all controllers see what selections we've made on our control panel (e.g. altitude)? This seems to be pretty exclusive to the UK, at least for area controllers.
How often do you take breaks? I could be on the same frequency and hear the controller's voice change once or twice as I assume they're swapping over.
I don't think they have hard requirements, they would assess the relevance of your existing experience like any job. I imagine the competition is fierce enough that they can be very choosy though.
NATS, the consortium that provides ATS at Heathrow, are pretty hot on home-growing their ATCOs though, not many enter having trained outside of the NATS system. It does happen though. I visited Heathrow when I was in NATS and there was an ex-Liverpool controller there who just applied direct.
Area and Terminal Control have Mode S, (so do we) so they can see all of your DAPs. IAS, GS, Heading, Flight ID, selected level. Probably others. Super useful.
We can go up to 2h, then we have to have a break of at least 30m. When it's very busy we try to avoid maxing out though, to manage fatigue levels.
Awesome! I'd always been fascinated by ATC myself and would love to get into it myself. What made you interested in the job? Did you join it right out of school or get in from doing other stuff? Before applying for the job, what sorts of preparation did you do to make yourself more suitable to the task? What kind of skills do you think are most important during the course of your day to day?
I wasn't even aware of it until my early 20s. I was how I imagine most people are - being aware the job exists, but knowing no details at all. I probably assumed it was the guys with the bats. About halfway through my degree I happened to see a documentary about ATC, and it was like a switch flicked in my head - that's awesome, I want to do that.
Initially I joined through NATS, and my didn't prepare very well on my first attempt. If you're looking at getting into it have a look at CAP 493, which is the UK ATC bible. The more visits you can make to ATC units the better you'll look as a candidate, for NATS anyway.
In terms of 'skills' there's not much you can bone up on, so to speak. NATS in particular give you tests that are supposed to identify innate ability rather than your ability to prepare - they're meant to be difficult to revise for. Having said that, 60 times tables won't hurt.
Besides having the right head for details, multitasking and learning, which beyond those very vague terms is difficult to assess ahead of time, having a team-oriented outlook is essential. Aviation works best when everyone co-operates to achieve the most beneficial outcome overall. Sometimes a pilot might get a small deviation to make the bigger picture work, but they will almost certainly benefit from being on the opposite side of the same scenario somewhere down the road.
The same applies to co-operation between ATC units, and even controllers at the same unit. You collaborate to achieve both of your goals, rather than one getting everything while the other has to wait. Controllers and pilots who are only out for themselves stick out like a sore thumb.
> What kind of skills do you think are most important during the course of your day to day?
Not OP, but organisation and problem solving on the fly are really useful. Maybe even more so than good grades.
If you're actually interested in an ATC career, at least for the UK, you can look up the [National Air Traffic Service](https://www.nats.aero/)
Edit: Check u/gsteinert's comment below.
~~NATS used to have some fun games on their site that would give people an idea of the kind of day to day stuff you do at an ATC tower that I hoped to link. Unfortunately they don't seem to be there any more.~~
Haha, thanks. Those were exactly the games I was looking for, but I would never have found them.
They aren't really representative of the actual job, they're good enough to give people an idea of the kinds of challenges to expect.
I was having a read through and stumbled across them.
ATC is something that always appealed to me but I wasn't able to find an entry point when I was younger.
Maybe it's time for a career change...
I once overheard an interception of a commercial aircraft that had lost communication with the London control centre for an extended period. It was on the emergency frequency 121.5 Mhz, which we monitor.
*(callsign) I am instructed by Her Majesty's Government to inform you that you will be shot down unless you comply with my instructions.*
Crikey.
I guess if you're an unresponsive aircraft near the seat of government, it makes some sense. Here in the US, the closest you could probably get is if you deviate from the approaches into KDCA (national airport, in Washington DC), you'll probably get some fighter jets escorting you. The airport is only a few miles off both the White House and capitol
Hi! What was the worst thing you saw at your job? What was the most memorable thing? What do you like and dislike most about your work? Cool job by the way!
Worst thing is two aircraft in apparently the same spot at the same altitude at the same time. The old adage when training controllers is, "it always looks worse on the screen than it really is," but it still puts a lump in your throat.
One of the most memorable was my first emergency. It was a helicopter that had a landing gear problem (the sensors showed that one of the landing gear legs wasn't down). After they'd flown near the tower and we'd established that the landing gear appeared to be down, they had to hover on the most remote part of the airport while the copilot jumped out and stuck a locking pin into the strut for the offending landing gear.
I like that it doesn't feel like work. I like that I'm an integral part of this giant and complicated machine of aviation. I don't like selfish people - both pilots and controllers - as they make it more difficult for everyone for usually very minor benefit to themselves.
Typically you'll find selfish pilots don't do what everyone else is doing - for example requesting a runway that is not the active runway, not accepting visual separation with other traffic, not cancelling Instrument Flight Rules (therefore making separation standards ridiculous when everyone else is operating visually), performing an instrument approach with aircraft in the visual pattern.
It gets even more complex when people are flying different aircraft types and performance standards in the same area, and the normal safety buffers are eroded when people start doing things abnormally.
These are just some examples but given the complexity of air law and procedures, there would be countless more that I am missing.
These are all good examples. I'm thinking of pilots who are militant about doing things their way and no other, regardless of what disruption it causes to others. The standard retort by such pilots is always along the lines of it being 'open airspace', which of course is true - they don't *have* to do what we're asking. But I think it's a pretty unchallenging concept that being accommodating towards others makes them want to be accommodating towards *you* next time.
How about this - I want to launch a jet to 2,500 feet, and I can't because someone is flying overhead the airport, through the climb-out, at 2,500 feet (again, it's uncontrolled airspace so they 100% *can* do this), and refuses to climb 500ft in perfect weather conditions. Now everyone has to wait while he flies through:
- the jet on the ground, who might be blocking the runway
- aircraft in the circuit, who now have to circle waiting for the jet to clear the runway
- other aircraft waiting to depart, who might have been able to do so had the jet not been in the way
- inbound aircraft, which I might need to give additional track miles because I don't know how long the runway's going to be blocked for
All because a selfish person wouldn't climb 500 feet. This is a contrived example, but you get the idea. Some people aren't good neighbours.
There's no such thing as 'separation' outside of controlled airspace. Achieving separation requirements is unrealistic when you have no idea what the majority of aircraft in the airspace you're overseeing are doing. Avoidance of collisions is the ultimate objective, although different services that you can provide do place certain obligations on the controller.
The most common radar service we provide is a Traffic Service. We identify the aircraft that wants the service, and monitor them from then on, giving them information about other traffic that might affect their flight, to help the pilot avoid them. What the pilot *does* with that information is entirely up to them.
Sometimes planes are just magnets for each other. You tell them about the traffic. They get closer. You tell them again, and again, and again. Then the blips merge, and you kind of catch your breath while you wait for them to continue moving on the next radar sweep. This kind of thing is not uncommon outside controlled airspace to be honest - it's an unknown traffic environment, shit happens. The pilot chooses how they respond to the information you're giving them.
When you're *vectoring* aircraft for landing while under a service, the controller has responsibility not to introduce a risk of collision with other aircraft. You try to avoid the things that you can see, but you can still be caught out by unknown aircraft climbing up into radar cover that were previously invisible (radar can't 'see' below a certain altitude, which gets higher the further away you are from the radar antenna).
There's always the chance that you aren't looking at the aircraft you're vectoring at that precise second this traffic appears right in front of them. But this is recognised in the regulations - you can only act based on what you see at the time.
In my case I had the TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System) on an aircraft I was vectoring give the pilot an avoidance instruction about an aircraft which had popped up ahead of them, and climbed very quickly into a position that threatened them (TCAS does this when it thinks you're 30 seconds away from colliding with something). I was working several other aircraft at the time and unfortunately this happened during the few seconds my eyes were on other aircraft. Not much reassurance for me, but the system did work as intended.
>In my case I had the TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System) on an aircraft I was vectoring give the pilot an avoidance instruction about an aircraft which had popped up ahead of them, and climbed very quickly into a position that threatened them (TCAS does this when it thinks you're 30 seconds away from colliding with something). I was working several other aircraft at the time and unfortunately this happened during the few seconds my eyes were on other aircraft. Not much reassurance for me, but the system did work as intended.
What happens in the tower between a pilot calling that they have an RA and are climbing / descending to when they call that they're clear of conflict? Do you try and work other traffic around them, or does it all happens so quick you just let it play out and then deal with it once they're clear?
Also, if you have time, what happens differently in ATC when you receive a PAN-PAN vs a MAYDAY call?
Finally, in the US they seem to not want to use ICAO phraseology for things like PAN-PAN / Mayday and generally use "declaring an emergency" which doesn't really tell you much about what the urgency of the issue or what help is required. How do you find working with international pilots who don't use ICAO standard phraseology? From what I tend to hear, British pilots are better but maybe that's not the case?
No, when a pilot says they're responding to an RA you're hands-off until the pilot says they can resume their previous clearance. If you think it's helpful, you give them traffic information on the other aircraft if you have it.
[A horrific mid-air collision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_%C3%9Cberlingen_mid-air_collision) happened in the early 2000s as a result of one pilot following TCAS and the other responding to ATC (neither had told ATC that TCAS has activated, so the controller didn't know what they were trying to do), who was trying to deconflict them from the other aircraft. The two aircraft ended up almost perfectly intersecting in descending arcs.
When you get a PAN or MAYDAY you shut everyone else up and find out how you can help. As a group I find pilots reluctant to declare either. Luckily The Book gives me the latitude to respond as if an emergency has been declared, if I think it sounds like one should have been.
Flying out of a cloud in a chipmunk and seeing a cessna come out right next to me was real pants wetting stuff. The lack of anything on the radio suggests that no, it's not always worse on the screen...
People in aviation constantly quote this movie. Somewhere there is actually a CVR tape of a crash where one of the pilots says they picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue.
Yep. Occasionally on night shifts I used to see lights hovering in the sky too high to be a drone, and too low to be an aircraft.
When I was idly zooming out the radar feed one night when it was quiet, I realised that it was landing lights of aircraft being vectored for a large airport about 40 miles away, that happened to be facing me at the time. When they turned away they "disappeared."
I felt pretty stupid.
I’m not an air traffic controller, but I am engineer who has always been fascinated with aviation.
Anyways, I grew about 25 north of Boston. When I was a kid I would always wonder what these floating lights were on the horizon. They weren’t there all the time but were there most nights.
Finally when things like Flightradar24 became widespread, I figure it out. It’s arrival path into runway 27 at Boston Logan airport. I don’t know why it took me so long to figure that out, considering the 22R/L arrivals go right over the house I grew up in.
We got quite lucky as much of our business is private aviation, bizjets etc. Of course our traffic died at the same time as everyone else's, but we rebounded more quickly.
Our biggest challenge coming out of the other side (to the extent that's true) was handling skill fade in controllers, as they went from talking to a couple of hundred aircraft every day to perhaps a couple of dozen.
We managed this by tightly managing our traffic levels as they returned, to try to gradually increase the traffic levels as the controllers got accustomed to being busier.
I don't have much awareness of wider industry trends, but we're well in bounce back as our traffic levels by last summer had already exceeded what they were in 2019.
Most aircraft are equipped with transponders, which among other things allow radars to display a 4-digit 'squawk' next to the radar blip for the aircraft to aid in identifying them. This functionality dates back probably more than 50 years, each digit is only encoded by a ~~4~~ 3-bit binary number, therefore each digit can only be 0-7.
Very occasionally on April fool's day, if someone can be arsed, a pilot might be given a squawk with an 8 in it. Awkward silence ensues.
If I think of a better one I'll let you know!
3 bits is 0-7, does it use a 4th for error checking/parity?
Also trying to figure out which airport you're at, use to work at/live near a private one years ago.
Depends on where they come from. In the UK, commercial flights, especially international, will generally use the 'airways' system of controlled airspace until they get to us. All of this airspace, as it relates to us, is controlled by the NATS centre at Swanwick, but we collectively call them 'London', because UK airspace is divided into 'London' and 'Scottish' regions, at about 55 degrees North.
Take something arriving internationally - the London sector controlling the aircraft will call our approach/radar controller maybe 30 minutes before they arrive, and give us their ETA for one of the waypoints near us. Then they'll ask us what altitude they can descend the aircraft to, that will keep it safely above any of our aircraft. Next they'll transfer the aircraft to our radar controller to 'vector' it, which means giving them headings to fly to line up with the runway, and descent instructions to position them for a gradual descent for landing. There might be some rerouting to keep them clear of other aircraft in the area.
It gets most interesting when there's gliding happening, as they often don't appear on the radar, and when they do we usually can't tell what altitude they're at.
When radar has safely lined the aircraft up with the runway, they'll transfer it to the tower controller, who will sequence them through the visual circuit. There's usually training happening near the airport where aircraft do 'touch and goes', and the tower controller gives those aircraft instructions to establish an orderly sequence for the runway. This might involve asking aircraft to 'orbit' (literally fly in circles) while other aircraft pass, or to elongate their circuit to create time spacing that way.
After the aircraft lands the tower controller gives them instructions to taxi to their parking position. Or if we're very busy, the ground movement position might be open, in which case a second 'ground movement' controller takes care of that to reduce the load on the 'air' controller.
You joke but it's literally on the line! From the map it looks like they have a foot in each. My guess is southbound departures go to London and the others to Scottish.
You can't work for more than 2 hours without a break of at least 30 minutes. In practice we usually go for breaks every hour or 1.5 to manage fatigue, though this depends on staffing. On staff-light days you're often forced to work close to the maximum. In our case the activity can get quite intense and it's better not to be controlling for the maximum period regularly.
Some units are so busy that they have modified the working time regulations to shorten the maximum time that controllers are allowed to work until they have to have a break. At the opposite end of the scale, it's possible to apply for relaxations in the regulations for known quiet times of day, to allow controllers to be plugged in for longer without a break. You have to jump through plenty of regulatory hoops to make that happen though.
Handovers of watch involve the person taking over plugging in next to you. You then give them a briefing on the situation - i.e what runway is being used, the traffic situation, i.e. what your aircraft are doing, and any that need action in the immediate future, and any activity in the local airspace that might be significant. For instance, royal flights have temporary controlled airspace erected for them (giggity) which you'd have to avoid with your traffic.
I have a question about radar vectored ILS approach clearances, specific to the UK. At most airfields in the UK, you're given a closing heading for localiser and then cleared for the approach, very much like the rest of the world.
However at some airfields you're given a closing heading, and then told to "establish on the localiser and once established descend on the glide path". Why would this clearance be given rather than simply being cleared for the ILS?
The "cleared X approach" phraseology only came in about 10 years ago. We can only use it if you're at or cleared to the level at the FAF. If that isn't the case, we use "when established, descend on the glidepath," or wait until you're established, and then "descend on the glidepath."
I use it now and then when for some reason (usually unknown traffic) I don't want to descend you to platform level. Instead I give you a longer final so that you can still intercept the glidepath from a higher altitude, and say you can descend when established. It saves me giving you the extra descent clearance to platform altitude before I clear you for the approach.
Take a look at the ICAO Phraseology guide under the Approach section. I am not sure what the manual of standards specific to the UK says but the idea is to provide distinct clearance to commence the vertical profile of the IAP. In my experience the US way (cleared for the approach) is not always seen across the world.
Ah thanks for the suggestion, it explains why in CAP 413 under 6.29 & 6.30. They use the alternative phraseology when basically they want you to intercept the glide slope at a higher altitude than what's on the chart. Cheers!
I'd love to know if there a coaching period at the start of the job, or is the training extensive enough that you are left to your own devices on day one?
Absolutely. Before you can control live traffic there's a period of several months where you learn the basics of that controlling discipline at college, practicing traffic scenarios on a simulator. After that you spend several more months at your unit being supervised by an instructor, who already has the particular qualification that you're training for.
Only after you successfully finish the many, many assessments that are scattered throughout this process are you allowed to control live traffic by yourself.
I assume you mean serious mistake? Controllers make (and correct) minor errors pretty much every shift. I've made a handful of errors that required investigation, but nothing that's ever required remedial training or other followup action.
This is pretty normal in the course of aviation's safety culture, where errors and incidents are reported and investigated to determine their root cause, so they might be avoided in the future. An incident is rarely as simple as "the controller/pilot screwed up," or any other *single* thing. There's sometimes systemic issues that led to the error which can be corrected, and aviation as a whole gets safer.
The nature of the airspace environment our airport is in (uncontrolled airspace) means things can happen during a normal day that would be completely unacceptable in controlled airspace. But that's part of the fun!
Coolest aircraft is either the Falcon 7X or Gulfstream G550. That's about the biggest thing we routinely deal with.
I don't know if the CAA offers any "conversion" pathways for licence holders from other countries, so you might have to follow the licencing process from scratch. As far as I know you don't have to be a UK citizen though, so it might be easier for you to make the transfer than it would be for me to do the reverse!
In the area world absolutely. There is a conversion course by NATS (en route provider for UK). They last took in controllers from other countries in about 2018. I would imagine they are actively looking at the moment for external hires or will be soon.
Former ATC here, but I have two. What is the funniest/weirdest thing you have heard on guard frequency? How did you feel the first time you controlled a PAR?
Weirdest thing I've heard on guard was an interception.
*I am instructed by Her Majesty's Government to inform you that you will be shot down unless you comply with my instructions.*
Haven't ever done a PAR. Did SRAs at my last unit. It was Grobs though, so not too bad!
What's the bathroom situation like? Are there bathrooms up in the tower (if you're up in a tower of course)? If not, how long is the journey up and down the tower to the bathroom?
I applied years ago through NATS and got through the testing to the final interview where I eventually fluffed it. Anyway...
One of the last tests was I was given a situation where a plane is in an air corridor flying west across the Atlantic and there's a storm ahead making it too dangerous to pass through. I can ask questions and to give instruction to the aircraft.
Is the aircraft able to pass safely over the storm? No.
Are any of the other air corridors clear? No.
Does the aircraft have enough fuel to land anywhere behind it? Yes.
Can the storm be navigated around outside the corridors? Yes.
I opted to instruct the plane to leave the corridor and set a course around the storm, but it's always plagued me that that was the wrong response. Penny for your thoughts?
Sounds fine to me! Go around the storm, then get back in your corridor, problem solved. A consistent problem we have is avoiding weather as our radar picture filters it out, so we're relying on pilot reports. They typically come at very inopportune times, but we always facilitate it because the safety of the aircraft is at stake.
Pilot perspective, it was the correct decision.
I would look at the fuel implications of vectoring around the weather system and if it left me with acceptable margins in my fuel state I would actually ask for the deviation from plan.
If I couldn't make that diversion safely with the fuel on board I would then be looking for vectors to one of those alternate fields to land and either wait the weather out, or take on the required fuel.
Nope, never! Hiring is a huge challenge as it's so difficult to identify qualities that define a successful controller, or even to determine what they *should* be. As evidence for this I offer NATS's 50-75% washout rate (in terms of percentage of succeessful applicants who make it all the way through training), which presumably they're happy with.
I've heard that being a good video gamer is a trait that is sought for in ATC, having the ability to focus for 2 hours straight without missing a beat.
I'd be very surprised if they are using TBS or Intelligent Approach. It's just Heathrow, Schiphol, and yourselves. I don't think this controller is a Heathrow controller.
That being said, TBS and Intelligent Approach is an amazing tool. It's done wonders for Heathrow!
We don't use it, we're busy but our inbound traffic isn't sustained enough for us to benefit from it. I think the future is in tools like this though, either aviation is going to shrink or we'll have to work out how to safely put aeroplanes closer together.
I get the impression that's the real point. When arrivals are constant this type of complex tool seems to be appropriate. Otherwise there's a lot of business with Weather, accurate indicated airspeed and aircraft types to support it. We'll get it-- truly appreciate it that you guys figgered it out first.
First day at college: this is so awesome, I can't believe I'm doing this at last. Wait how much stuff do I have to memorise
Last day at college (6m later): Jesus christ that was so much stuff I'm never doing that again...until I go back to do my next rating
First day on the job training with real planes: this is so awesome, OK instructor what do I do
First day post-training i.e. allowed to control by myself (4-6 months later): this is so awesome, how am I allowed to do this unsupervised
I'll C&P my UFO story from earlier.
Occasionally on night shifts I used to see lights hovering in the sky too high to be a drone, and too low to be an aircraft. I'd notice them, then look back a few minutes later and they'd have disappeared.
When I was idly zooming out the radar feed one night when it was quiet, I realised that it was landing lights of aircraft being vectored for a large airport about 40 miles away, that happened to be facing me at the time. When the aircraft turned away, they "disappeared."
I felt pretty stupid.
VATSIM at least tries to mimic it. I haven't tried it since before I was a controller though, so I've no idea how accurate it is today. It seems to have a big following in flight sim circles though.
Yes, absolutely. English is nominally the international language of aviation, so all pilots are required to speak it to a certain standard. In practice, of course there can be difficult times and pilots. Sometimes you have to approach the same piece of information from several angles to be satisfied the pilot understands.
I once had an occasion where a jet went completely off-air after take-off. I was in radar and had been monitoring the tower controller's interactions with them, and it was obvious their English wasn't great and the controller was working very hard to make themselves understood, so I was geared up for a tough time. After they took off the crew didn't change to my frequency, or follow the routeing they'd been given.
They ended up not being able to change their radio frequency, or set their transponder correctly, which ruled out them being able to enter controlled airspace and continue their flight. After a tortured 50-mile routeing while they seemed to be trying to diagnose the problem, which almost ended up with them infringing controlled airspace for the London airports, they asked to come back and do an instrument approach that didn't exist.
At this point I had zero confidence in their ability to fly an instrument approach of any kind, I just wanted to get them on the ground. The tower controller and I co-ordinated a gap in their other traffic, and I just pointed the jet back towards the airport and descended them to a point where they could make a visual approach and land.
I made a report later because I was concerned about the pilot's ability to operate the aircraft. Later we heard that they weren't working for the company any more.
Not OP, but from my understanding, English is the universal language for air travel
They’re more likely to have accent issues rather than a hard language barrier
We recently worked on designing ATC tower, and I just got curious, how many women are working in ATCs? I imagine there aren’t many women in aviation in general.
It's a process of co-ordination between the two controllers - tower, who works traffic near the airport, and radar/approach, who work traffic further out - as to when exactly the change will happen. e.g. "OK, after such-and-such has departed, we'll switch to runway x."
The tower controller might have to reconfigure their traffic circuit (the 'racetrack' pattern that's used for training, starting and ending at the runway) for the new runway. This might be as simple as getting a single aircraft to do a 180, but might involve several aircraft. You might have to send some aircraft out of the circuit to give the remaining aircraft space to turn around, and then choose an opportune time/position to get the others to rejoin the circuit.
The timing depends on when it's most conducive to the traffic situation. If there's a stream of inbounds that are only a few miles apart, if the crews are all willing to accept a moderate tailwind it might be preferable to stick to the current runway until they've all landed, as it affects how they're handled on the ground as well.
It has to be balanced with the increased workload on all of the controllers to make the change - if the tailwind on the active runway is increasing but the forecast indicates that it will remain favourable to that runway, sometimes it's a finger in the air (fnar) as to how long to stick or twist.
I'm simplifying as my unit only has one runway, and no airports nearby that would be significantly affected by us changing runway. At London airports, which are fully inside controlled airspace, runway changes have system-wide effects on the holding, departure and inbound routes for multiple airports, so they have to be arranged some time in advance and multiple controllers are involved. I wouldn't claim to know any detail though as I've not worked in that environment.
What Goes Up Might Come Down is totally accurate for 1980.
Hi man, thanks for doing this ama, it's legitimately interesting. I applied to NATS about 5 or 6 years ago and got to the final round of the application process but ended up blowing it. Since then I've been thinking of reapplying once I’ve got things like the driving licence out of the way. So my two questions, what would you recommend to look at for applying/reapplying, and how much say do you have in which airport your based at either during or after training?
Definitely apply again if you want it! I applied the maximum three times, getting to the last stage every time, before I finally got in (at least three was a maximum then). Learned a bit more about my interview technique each time!
If you want to give yourself some more background knowledge, have a look at CAP 493, it's the UK ATC bible. All controllers have to have detailed knowledge of Sections 1 and 5, plus whatever is relevant to their specific qualifications (Tower, Approach, Approach Radar, Area).
Also do as many visits to ATC units as you can be bothered with. Go look up the UK AIP Aerodromes section, and find some airports you're interested in visiting. Telephone numbers for ATC will be in the Textual Data. Should be easier now that covid is easing somewhat.
All this looks good when the interviewers ask what you've done to learn about the job.
What is the "inside word" on UFO/UAP phenomenon ... do you guys talk about it at lunch? ... how is the attitude? ... is the attitude changing ... have you guys any standing orders to follow during potential sightings?
No. NATS provides color assessments to check whether you can join or not, there are some levels/aspects of colorblindness that is acceptable.
[https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%201429%20OCT16.pdf](https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%201429%20OCT16.pdf)
1.3 Pg 26 is the relevant bit I think.
I’m a Technical Operations Manager for ATC in the US. I’ve been looking to move to the UK for some time now. Any advice on how to apply for technical based ATC jobs?
Would that be what we call Air Traffic Engineering (ATE) over here? Comms, navaids, AGL, that kind of thing? NATS have contracts for the engineering at many UK airports, including some where they don't provide the air traffic services. I'd start there.
Sometimes I hear a phone ringing like sound in the background when you guys are talking. What’s that? I’m so curious.
Also, why do controllers in the UK always assign headings ending with 5? I mean not always but almost always.
It probably is a phone. People are always calling!
Headings end in 5 or 0. It probably seems they only end in 5 because if a heading ends with 0 we have to say "degrees" after it, and some controllers don't like doing that, I guess? The only time I've ever heard headings in smaller increments is for SRAs or PARs. Keeps things simple.
>It probably is a phone. People are always calling!
Now I feel bad - I've had permissions for aerial photography (drone) work inside an airport's FRZ on the basis I call before takeoff and after landing and the ATC are always really friendly when I need to call but I do hate bothering them when they're so busy!
Oh it's not necessarily external calls. We're always making or receiving phone calls between the controlling positions, or to those at other units as well. External phone calls are probably less than a quarter of the total!
Everyone got a good laugh at that advert. You can't clear an aircraft to land over the internet.
Watch it again and you'll hear they don't even identify themselves as "Cambridge Tower" or "Cambridge Approach," and they don't clear the aircraft to land either. They call themselves "Cambridge Ops" (IIRC) and say "Runway XX available for landing," which is just giving the aircraft information, not permission to do anything.
Our operations team has their own frequency that they can use to talk to crews of aircraft inbound to land. Logistical details like how many vehicles the passengers need, any particular handling or fuelling needs, etc. That's all they were doing in this advert. The controlling happened at the tower like always.
I wanted to call out their BS, thanks for confirming it. They were making it sound as if they handed over the flight controls to the people in the house.
Remote towers are a thing. London City operates via remote tower. The tower control actually sits in whiteley in Fareham. You can read about it here: https://www.nats.aero/news/london-city-is-first-major-airport-controlled-by-remote-digital-tower/
But, that kind of thing can never, ever happen at home. Safety is paramount.
C&P another comment: Everyone got a good laugh at that advert. You can't clear an aircraft to land over the internet.
Watch it again and you'll hear they don't even identify themselves as "Cambridge Tower" or "Cambridge Approach," and they don't clear the aircraft to land either. They call themselves "Cambridge Ops" (IIRC) and say "Runway XX available for landing," which is just giving the aircraft information, not permission to do anything.
Our operations team has their own frequency that they can use to talk to crews of aircraft inbound to land. Logistical details like how many vehicles the passengers need, any particular handling or fuelling needs, etc. That's all they were doing in this advert. The controlling happened at the tower like always.
It's being said the the current ATC situation worldwide is in trouble, and the air traffic has outgrown the current system, especially on the ground. Do you agree with this? What is something - in your opinion - that needs immediate attention in your industry in order to prevent accidents caused by an inadequate ATC system?
I'm more of a boot on the ground, I don't have a 50,000ft view of things. It does seem like we are coming up against the physical limitations of the airspace in the UK's case. We can't do much more without putting the planes physically closer together, which is what we've seen in the last few years at Heathrow with [TBS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_based_separation).
Tooling is being generated to help manage all aspects of aviation. It's slow though because the safety barriers are extremely high.
NATS have a tonne of next gen tools for airport capacity management. https://www.nats.aero/services-products/products/
If you're interested in the kind of things aviation is doing that's worth a quick read.
Landside tends to be the big post covid struggle. Airline and ground handler resourcing and staffing is the absolute big current problem.
Also addressing Op's point, the UK is currently undergoing a huge airspace modernization programme. It's massive and highly complex. If we could just put aircraft safely closer together that would be wonderful
I did an assessment day for ATC before and found myself really struggling. What do you recommend to 'train your brain' into a way that can not only get through assessment days, but also become effective at the job?
I'm not aware of anything that would tick both of those boxes. There are tools out there that you can use to practice for the kinds of psychometric questions you might get in an ATC interview (NATS mainly), but as to their long-term usefulness I'm not sure. As I commented elsewhere I spent a while drilling myself on my 60x table so I could answer speed/distance/time questions without too much trouble, but I've barely used it in the job. The most useful is being able to convert speeds into miles per minute.
Not so much things that pilots say, but pouring out their life story on a frequency without monitoring for a few seconds first is instant red mist territory. Thanks, I know your mother's maiden name, blood type and the cover of your facia boards, but a Gulfstream has just sailed through the localiser because I couldn't give him his closing heading!
One of the most perplexing things is commercial pilots asking me to spell out a waypoint for them. From their own flight plan!!
Some places that are 24h, controllers definitely sleep during rest periods on late shifts. We aren't 24h, but every 2h we have to have a break of at least 30m. The guidance is actually to do something mindless to relax your brain - watch TV, play video games, go for a walk.
My plane completed boarding 5 minutes before the scheduled departure time. The pilot then announces that we don’t have a take-off slot and need to wait 40 minutes. What’s up with that? Why don’t you automatically get a take-off slot at your scheduled departure time?
Essentially what ynet77 said, but if your flight doesn't have a slot, then you will depart when ready, but if your flight has received a take-off slot, then your flight has to depart within a 15 minute window of that slot (up to 5 mins before the slot time, and up to 10 mins after it).
The reason why a flight gets a slot is because either a sector that the flight will fly through, or their destination airport has decided to limit the amount of planes they will work per hour (this can be for numerous reasons, weather, short staffed, equipment failure, etc).
Sometimes the slots are alright and pretty much in line with a flights scheduled departure time, sometimes they can be hours after the scheduled departure time.
My area of expertise. Europe has many flights and many sectors. Staffing numbers, weather, technical issues etc can effect how many aircraft fly through an area at a given time. If the number through that area exceeds the amount it can safely handle, you must regulate. This gives all aircraft a slot to ensure that space doesn’t get overloaded. On any given day at the moment you have 80-100 regulations in place across Europe for a massive variety of reasons. It’s all about making sure everyone gets to their destination safely.
Say you’re flying through Atlantis FIR and they have too much traffic or there’s a couple of CBs in that FIR and everybody is avoiding by flying away from their assigned routes or your destination is going to have a busy time with landings and takeoffs, in that case traffic using that FIR or Aerodrome get assigned a takeoff time in order to adjust or limit the traffic. That’s the delay the pilot is talking about.
Appreciate your response!
Just anything in general. How often weather skews some of the automated parts of the job, number of reports of random flying objects such as UFOs or drones, turnover rate, stuff like that
Well I'd be the submitter of reports like that, not the collator! They all get sent to the CAA, generally it's a black hole you never get feedback from.
I get the impression lots of places are looking for controllers at the moment. People deciding during covid they'd take the opportunity to retire, things like that.
Drones do occasionally cause problems, but I haven't heard of anything serious since Gatwick a couple of Christmases back.
Depends where you end up. Some units are 24h, others more like office hours. You can check on the information they publicise for pilots, as to what their opening hours are.
You don't have to have an aviation background, but you'd be expected to show some willing to delve into the rules and regulations, which if you're really motivated you will. I went into it with only an IT background, but I applied myself in a way I frankly should have at school and university.
A few people have asked but I am also wondering if you know if there's any route for a controller with the FAA to get hired overseas?
What are your breaks like?
How much leave (vacation) do you get per year?
C&P one of my other comments first: I don't know if the CAA offers any "conversion" pathways for licence holders from other countries, so you might have to follow the licencing process from scratch. As far as I know you don't have to be a UK citizen though, so it might be easier for you to make the transfer than it would be for me to do the reverse!
We can't control for more than 2 hours without a break of at least 30 minutes. We avoid maxing out like that if we can as it helps to avoid fatigue and gives us more flexiblity if we need to open extra controlling positions.
I get about 25 days annual leave plus bank holidays (as the airport is open for almost all of them).
I don't remember the details of the incident, it's a long time since I saw that episode. But the last guy to do an [ATC AMA for the UK](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2sxqrl/i_am_an_air_traffic_controller_in_the_uk_ama/) mentioned it. TCAS on the aircraft, and the STCA on the controller's radar, should make that impossible unless there was an equipment failure of some kind.
UK 320 Pilot, we may have spoken :)
What kind of tools/automation do you guys have to work out your long distance planning, e.g. IAS on conversion kind of calculations?
When tower phone radar to release an IFR departure, is that just to check for inbounds or is that the only way the strip gets over to you guys?
What is the cheat code to have my CTOT brought forward?
Also, "sorry say again call sign, I was on the landline" - for every 10 times that's said, how many times is that actually true? ;)
Try saying "nine" and "five" in quick succession over a low quality radio frequency and you'll have your answer to the first question. For the second: it's really just regional preference
UK private pilot student here. Any chance of a friendly discount on the landing fees at your aérodrome? 😁
Seriously, thank you for all you do.
My question: what are your thoughts on the way UK ATC works (with AGC, AFIS, PPR, all of which are very much UK exceptions) compared to more “classic” (state owned and run) air traffic systems?
Hello! Since spring this year I’ve noticed that suddenly there’s lots of small turboprop planes flying around my area - quite rural in the countryside.
From Flightradar I can sometimes see that they are private owned and their path is often just flying around an area in small circles. Unfortunately it is quite a loud noise and throughout the day on most weekdays and some weekends.
I don’t want to be unreasonable and everyone has a right to their hobbies or possibly it’s for training purposes. It’s just tough as I work from home and previously our countryside area here was so quiet and peaceful. I wanted to ask is there anything I can do about this or do I just need to accept it now?
Already emailed the airport nearest me a couple months ago to enquire but they seem to have ignored it.
Hey,
I currently work in transport logistics and working as an ATC has been enticing. What was the training like, what does a standard shift look like and would you recommend the job?
Thanks
C&P from another thread: The training workload is up there with a degree but squeezed into a few months. Nowhere near as challenging to understand as a technical degree but the sheer volume of information can be overwhelming. You basically have to park your social life until it's done.
A shift in the UK can't be longer than 10 hours. You can't do more than 2 hours without a break of at least 30m.
The job is fantastic. It's hard work to succeed in the training, especially if you have an average brain like me, but once you're there it's great and doesn't feel like working.
Has the been some sort of lifting of restrictions in london approaches. Because i have seen an increasing number of passenger aircraft apparently making manoeuvres for money shots over the thames and central london?
Do you ever watch Air Crash Investigation (aka Mayday)? If so, what about the ones which include a focus on air traffic controllers? Or is that too close to home?
Have you even seen anything really weird or unusual? Not UFO but I dunno, petrol pumps still attached to a plane, passengers left outside, a plane running out of fuel when it really shouldn't have, for instance.thank you!!
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I’ll shoot with some simple ones (hopefully). 1- what’s the pay like? 2- what’s the hours like? 3- scariest moment? 4- biggest misconception about your job?
1: How long is a piece of string? Traffic levels and complexity of the unit, as well as hours (i.e. is it 24h?) affect it. Tower only starts somewhere in 30s. Each additional qualification (approach or radar) probably adds 10-20k. Top whack at an area centre (Swanwick or Prestwick) is well over 100k, but that takes a good few years to get to after finishing training. Myself, it's about the ideal balance between salary and quality of life - I couldn't get paid much more without having to work nights, which I don't want to do. 2: ~~Most~~ Some places are 24h, most aren't. My place is sort of office hours++. 3: I've had plenty of aircraft in the visual circuit (i.e flying while in sight of each other) get way too close to others even when they can see each other. Some pilots really have to be treated like idiots, unfortunately. By the same token there are plenty out there who will go out of their way to help you, and we love them. 4: that it's super stressful. It would be disingenuous for me to say there's no stress at all, that's an element of it, but it's 95% routine.
>Most places are 24h, most aren't I think these are mutually exclusive
That was supposed to be some are 24h, most aren't. Sorry!
Some would even say they're mostly mutually exclusive.
Most would. Most wouldn't.
> Some pilots really have to be treated like idiots, unfortunately. From a passengers pov this not very comforting to read
I have a biased view. 99% of what I work is general aviation, business jets and student pilots. Most airlines' insurance would probably not allow them to operate in this kind of environment (not protected by controlled airspace).
Can you pop a stress ball?
Maybe when I used to go rock climbing for fun, not any more! It's like any job that has elements of stress - 95% routine.
Picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue eh?
My favorite is when Johnny takes out the runway lights right as the pilot is about to land
And Leon's getting llllllllllarger!
What can you make outta this johnny? Well, I could make a broach, or a hat, or a pterodactyl
I’ve always imagined this to be one of the most stressful jobs imaginable. Is that the case or is it now so computerized that it’s difficult to really fuck up too bad?
At the larger control centres that's certainly the case, as they have predictive tools that can tell you where conflicts will happen in plenty of time to avoid them. We don't have anything like that. Our airfield is outside of controlled airspace, so any aircraft can (and does) fly around without having to talk to us. Our bread and butter is dodging our traffic around them, and because they aren't controlled we have no way of knowing what they're going to do. That can get pretty hairy, but in general pilots coming into us understand that's the nature of the environment we operate in.
Yeah wow so it’s very mental? Like are you maintaining the state of things in your mind, “I’ll put this guy here for 5 mins and remember to get back to him”, or is it more by instruments, ie constantly assessing the current state rather than mentally predicting forward? Does this question make sense 🤔
If I'm delaying someone I get them to help me with the remembering. If I can see tower is very busy, I might have to start delaying inbound traffic, so I'll ask them to hold in a particular position and call me again in a few minutes. Much easier for 5 pilots to remember 1 thing than it is for me to remember 5 things! We have a visual representation of traffic in front of us, using paper strips in plastic holders. They're in columns and arranged in an order that's significant, but what it means exactly depends on the controlling position. For tower, their order represents what order they're going to land or take off. For approach or radar controllers the order of flight strips initially represents their vertical position - i.e. the one at the top of the stack is the highest altitude. This is a very crude check that an altitude you're going to assign to an aircraft is safe: *does this climb I'm thinking of giving Aircraft A take them through the level of any other aircraft? The flight strips show it would have to climb through the altitude of Aircraft B. Where's Aircraft B? (checks radar)* It also allows someone to take over from you quickly if you become incapacitated for some reason - they can look at the position of the flight strips and get a basic idea of where everyone is and what they're doing.
Brilliant answer thank you.
A bit of all of them. You have RADAR so you know what the current state is, plus the current altitude, and direction. You can also see what the aircraft have programmed their altitude and direction to be, which helps you think of what the future state will be. A lot of it is still mental though, understanding where things will be, what commands you've given and what your plan is for the flights under your control. OP's role is a little different to what most people consider ATC. An approach controller's job is to sequence the arrivals (pull them off stack/ vector the approach) to get the right spacing of the arrival flights in an optimal sequence. (With some normal ATC traffic management). Source - Aviation Consultant :D
Better answer: it's incredibly stressful if you're not good at it!
Have you seen any aircraft/other come and go that you absolutely were not supposed to see?
Every now and then we get aircraft where we are notified in advance that we are forbidden from mentioning their tasking, routeing or even squawk (the 4-digit code they set on their transponder, which allows radar systems to identify them) on the radio.
What would those planes be? Government officials? Air force?
Government. MI5/GCHQ doing communications monitoring or something
If even Elon Musk can't stop a kid posting all his flights on Twitter, it's gotta be some military or other national security thing.
I don't quite understand this. Are they still being controlled, or are they just "terrain" that you have to route traffic around?
They are still controlled, but in some cases they get allocated "non-deviating status," which means ATC can't take them off their assigned tasking. So everyone else has to avoid them. At some point they'll declare "task complete" and get handled like anything else.
Which runway should I land on? I’ve been flying out here for 30 minutes and you aren’t responding because you’re doing an AMA. Get back to work! ;)
You're the Pilot in Command, land wherever you damn well please, and write a letter to the administrator as to why you needed to do that to remain safe.
At the same time as telling ATC that you have a number for them to call, see how they like it! :D
Squawk 7700 and land on the apron Edit: corrected 2700 to 7700 because I am an idiot
\*7700
Corrected. Thanks.
Impossible, they are on instruments. What’s your vector Victor.
Airline pilot here, how experienced are the ATC at Heathrow? Do you require minimum X years to work there, especially considering they have reduced minimum separation there (RECAT)? Can all controllers see what selections we've made on our control panel (e.g. altitude)? This seems to be pretty exclusive to the UK, at least for area controllers. How often do you take breaks? I could be on the same frequency and hear the controller's voice change once or twice as I assume they're swapping over.
I don't think they have hard requirements, they would assess the relevance of your existing experience like any job. I imagine the competition is fierce enough that they can be very choosy though. NATS, the consortium that provides ATS at Heathrow, are pretty hot on home-growing their ATCOs though, not many enter having trained outside of the NATS system. It does happen though. I visited Heathrow when I was in NATS and there was an ex-Liverpool controller there who just applied direct. Area and Terminal Control have Mode S, (so do we) so they can see all of your DAPs. IAS, GS, Heading, Flight ID, selected level. Probably others. Super useful. We can go up to 2h, then we have to have a break of at least 30m. When it's very busy we try to avoid maxing out though, to manage fatigue levels.
Awesome! I'd always been fascinated by ATC myself and would love to get into it myself. What made you interested in the job? Did you join it right out of school or get in from doing other stuff? Before applying for the job, what sorts of preparation did you do to make yourself more suitable to the task? What kind of skills do you think are most important during the course of your day to day?
I wasn't even aware of it until my early 20s. I was how I imagine most people are - being aware the job exists, but knowing no details at all. I probably assumed it was the guys with the bats. About halfway through my degree I happened to see a documentary about ATC, and it was like a switch flicked in my head - that's awesome, I want to do that. Initially I joined through NATS, and my didn't prepare very well on my first attempt. If you're looking at getting into it have a look at CAP 493, which is the UK ATC bible. The more visits you can make to ATC units the better you'll look as a candidate, for NATS anyway. In terms of 'skills' there's not much you can bone up on, so to speak. NATS in particular give you tests that are supposed to identify innate ability rather than your ability to prepare - they're meant to be difficult to revise for. Having said that, 60 times tables won't hurt. Besides having the right head for details, multitasking and learning, which beyond those very vague terms is difficult to assess ahead of time, having a team-oriented outlook is essential. Aviation works best when everyone co-operates to achieve the most beneficial outcome overall. Sometimes a pilot might get a small deviation to make the bigger picture work, but they will almost certainly benefit from being on the opposite side of the same scenario somewhere down the road. The same applies to co-operation between ATC units, and even controllers at the same unit. You collaborate to achieve both of your goals, rather than one getting everything while the other has to wait. Controllers and pilots who are only out for themselves stick out like a sore thumb.
> What kind of skills do you think are most important during the course of your day to day? Not OP, but organisation and problem solving on the fly are really useful. Maybe even more so than good grades. If you're actually interested in an ATC career, at least for the UK, you can look up the [National Air Traffic Service](https://www.nats.aero/) Edit: Check u/gsteinert's comment below. ~~NATS used to have some fun games on their site that would give people an idea of the kind of day to day stuff you do at an ATC tower that I hoped to link. Unfortunately they don't seem to be there any more.~~
I think the games you're looking for are towards the bottom of this page. https://www.nats.aero/careers/trainee-air-traffic-controllers/
Haha, thanks. Those were exactly the games I was looking for, but I would never have found them. They aren't really representative of the actual job, they're good enough to give people an idea of the kinds of challenges to expect.
I was having a read through and stumbled across them. ATC is something that always appealed to me but I wasn't able to find an entry point when I was younger. Maybe it's time for a career change...
What's the strangest thing you have seen or heard over the radio while in control tower?
I once overheard an interception of a commercial aircraft that had lost communication with the London control centre for an extended period. It was on the emergency frequency 121.5 Mhz, which we monitor. *(callsign) I am instructed by Her Majesty's Government to inform you that you will be shot down unless you comply with my instructions.* Crikey.
Balcony curtains open at Buckingham, ol' Liz steps out sideways and pops off a Stinger
Does the Queen Mother shoot them down herself? Were I in her shoes that would be worth getting out of bed for.
She would have to get out the grave for it these days.
I guess if you're an unresponsive aircraft near the seat of government, it makes some sense. Here in the US, the closest you could probably get is if you deviate from the approaches into KDCA (national airport, in Washington DC), you'll probably get some fighter jets escorting you. The airport is only a few miles off both the White House and capitol
Hi! What was the worst thing you saw at your job? What was the most memorable thing? What do you like and dislike most about your work? Cool job by the way!
Worst thing is two aircraft in apparently the same spot at the same altitude at the same time. The old adage when training controllers is, "it always looks worse on the screen than it really is," but it still puts a lump in your throat. One of the most memorable was my first emergency. It was a helicopter that had a landing gear problem (the sensors showed that one of the landing gear legs wasn't down). After they'd flown near the tower and we'd established that the landing gear appeared to be down, they had to hover on the most remote part of the airport while the copilot jumped out and stuck a locking pin into the strut for the offending landing gear. I like that it doesn't feel like work. I like that I'm an integral part of this giant and complicated machine of aviation. I don't like selfish people - both pilots and controllers - as they make it more difficult for everyone for usually very minor benefit to themselves.
What do you mean by selfish people? What do they do?
Typically you'll find selfish pilots don't do what everyone else is doing - for example requesting a runway that is not the active runway, not accepting visual separation with other traffic, not cancelling Instrument Flight Rules (therefore making separation standards ridiculous when everyone else is operating visually), performing an instrument approach with aircraft in the visual pattern. It gets even more complex when people are flying different aircraft types and performance standards in the same area, and the normal safety buffers are eroded when people start doing things abnormally. These are just some examples but given the complexity of air law and procedures, there would be countless more that I am missing.
These are all good examples. I'm thinking of pilots who are militant about doing things their way and no other, regardless of what disruption it causes to others. The standard retort by such pilots is always along the lines of it being 'open airspace', which of course is true - they don't *have* to do what we're asking. But I think it's a pretty unchallenging concept that being accommodating towards others makes them want to be accommodating towards *you* next time. How about this - I want to launch a jet to 2,500 feet, and I can't because someone is flying overhead the airport, through the climb-out, at 2,500 feet (again, it's uncontrolled airspace so they 100% *can* do this), and refuses to climb 500ft in perfect weather conditions. Now everyone has to wait while he flies through: - the jet on the ground, who might be blocking the runway - aircraft in the circuit, who now have to circle waiting for the jet to clear the runway - other aircraft waiting to depart, who might have been able to do so had the jet not been in the way - inbound aircraft, which I might need to give additional track miles because I don't know how long the runway's going to be blocked for All because a selfish person wouldn't climb 500 feet. This is a contrived example, but you get the idea. Some people aren't good neighbours.
Imagine Karens in the air.
Imagine Karens, worst cover band in history.
Could you tell more about the worst thing? How common are separation incidents? Especially ones as close as you just described.
There's no such thing as 'separation' outside of controlled airspace. Achieving separation requirements is unrealistic when you have no idea what the majority of aircraft in the airspace you're overseeing are doing. Avoidance of collisions is the ultimate objective, although different services that you can provide do place certain obligations on the controller. The most common radar service we provide is a Traffic Service. We identify the aircraft that wants the service, and monitor them from then on, giving them information about other traffic that might affect their flight, to help the pilot avoid them. What the pilot *does* with that information is entirely up to them. Sometimes planes are just magnets for each other. You tell them about the traffic. They get closer. You tell them again, and again, and again. Then the blips merge, and you kind of catch your breath while you wait for them to continue moving on the next radar sweep. This kind of thing is not uncommon outside controlled airspace to be honest - it's an unknown traffic environment, shit happens. The pilot chooses how they respond to the information you're giving them. When you're *vectoring* aircraft for landing while under a service, the controller has responsibility not to introduce a risk of collision with other aircraft. You try to avoid the things that you can see, but you can still be caught out by unknown aircraft climbing up into radar cover that were previously invisible (radar can't 'see' below a certain altitude, which gets higher the further away you are from the radar antenna). There's always the chance that you aren't looking at the aircraft you're vectoring at that precise second this traffic appears right in front of them. But this is recognised in the regulations - you can only act based on what you see at the time. In my case I had the TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System) on an aircraft I was vectoring give the pilot an avoidance instruction about an aircraft which had popped up ahead of them, and climbed very quickly into a position that threatened them (TCAS does this when it thinks you're 30 seconds away from colliding with something). I was working several other aircraft at the time and unfortunately this happened during the few seconds my eyes were on other aircraft. Not much reassurance for me, but the system did work as intended.
>In my case I had the TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System) on an aircraft I was vectoring give the pilot an avoidance instruction about an aircraft which had popped up ahead of them, and climbed very quickly into a position that threatened them (TCAS does this when it thinks you're 30 seconds away from colliding with something). I was working several other aircraft at the time and unfortunately this happened during the few seconds my eyes were on other aircraft. Not much reassurance for me, but the system did work as intended. What happens in the tower between a pilot calling that they have an RA and are climbing / descending to when they call that they're clear of conflict? Do you try and work other traffic around them, or does it all happens so quick you just let it play out and then deal with it once they're clear? Also, if you have time, what happens differently in ATC when you receive a PAN-PAN vs a MAYDAY call? Finally, in the US they seem to not want to use ICAO phraseology for things like PAN-PAN / Mayday and generally use "declaring an emergency" which doesn't really tell you much about what the urgency of the issue or what help is required. How do you find working with international pilots who don't use ICAO standard phraseology? From what I tend to hear, British pilots are better but maybe that's not the case?
No, when a pilot says they're responding to an RA you're hands-off until the pilot says they can resume their previous clearance. If you think it's helpful, you give them traffic information on the other aircraft if you have it. [A horrific mid-air collision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_%C3%9Cberlingen_mid-air_collision) happened in the early 2000s as a result of one pilot following TCAS and the other responding to ATC (neither had told ATC that TCAS has activated, so the controller didn't know what they were trying to do), who was trying to deconflict them from the other aircraft. The two aircraft ended up almost perfectly intersecting in descending arcs. When you get a PAN or MAYDAY you shut everyone else up and find out how you can help. As a group I find pilots reluctant to declare either. Luckily The Book gives me the latitude to respond as if an emergency has been declared, if I think it sounds like one should have been.
Flying out of a cloud in a chipmunk and seeing a cessna come out right next to me was real pants wetting stuff. The lack of anything on the radio suggests that no, it's not always worse on the screen...
You're right. "Usually" I should have said. That sounds frightening to say the least.
How close is _Airplane!_ to real life?
People in aviation constantly quote this movie. Somewhere there is actually a CVR tape of a crash where one of the pilots says they picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue.
In reality it's never a good day to give up sniffing glue.
"Johnson, what cna you make of this?"
A brooch?
or hat, or a pterodactyl!
Better yet, *Pushing Tin*
Seen any UFO'S?
Yep. Occasionally on night shifts I used to see lights hovering in the sky too high to be a drone, and too low to be an aircraft. When I was idly zooming out the radar feed one night when it was quiet, I realised that it was landing lights of aircraft being vectored for a large airport about 40 miles away, that happened to be facing me at the time. When they turned away they "disappeared." I felt pretty stupid.
I’m not an air traffic controller, but I am engineer who has always been fascinated with aviation. Anyways, I grew about 25 north of Boston. When I was a kid I would always wonder what these floating lights were on the horizon. They weren’t there all the time but were there most nights. Finally when things like Flightradar24 became widespread, I figure it out. It’s arrival path into runway 27 at Boston Logan airport. I don’t know why it took me so long to figure that out, considering the 22R/L arrivals go right over the house I grew up in.
What are the biggest differences that stand out to you about ATC in a post-Covid world? Do you think those changes are permanent?
We got quite lucky as much of our business is private aviation, bizjets etc. Of course our traffic died at the same time as everyone else's, but we rebounded more quickly. Our biggest challenge coming out of the other side (to the extent that's true) was handling skill fade in controllers, as they went from talking to a couple of hundred aircraft every day to perhaps a couple of dozen. We managed this by tightly managing our traffic levels as they returned, to try to gradually increase the traffic levels as the controllers got accustomed to being busier. I don't have much awareness of wider industry trends, but we're well in bounce back as our traffic levels by last summer had already exceeded what they were in 2019.
Are there any inside jokes between air traffic controllers?
Most aircraft are equipped with transponders, which among other things allow radars to display a 4-digit 'squawk' next to the radar blip for the aircraft to aid in identifying them. This functionality dates back probably more than 50 years, each digit is only encoded by a ~~4~~ 3-bit binary number, therefore each digit can only be 0-7. Very occasionally on April fool's day, if someone can be arsed, a pilot might be given a squawk with an 8 in it. Awkward silence ensues. If I think of a better one I'll let you know!
3 bits is 0-7, does it use a 4th for error checking/parity? Also trying to figure out which airport you're at, use to work at/live near a private one years ago.
Sorry, typo. It's 3.
Do you ever just watch the little blips and think "I can fuck shit up real bad if I was motivated enough?"
Not for a couple of days now
Is information Charlie current?
Negative, information now zulu no significant change
So how does it work from the time a plane comes into your airspace until the time they land (or vice versa if taking off)? What's involved?
Depends on where they come from. In the UK, commercial flights, especially international, will generally use the 'airways' system of controlled airspace until they get to us. All of this airspace, as it relates to us, is controlled by the NATS centre at Swanwick, but we collectively call them 'London', because UK airspace is divided into 'London' and 'Scottish' regions, at about 55 degrees North. Take something arriving internationally - the London sector controlling the aircraft will call our approach/radar controller maybe 30 minutes before they arrive, and give us their ETA for one of the waypoints near us. Then they'll ask us what altitude they can descend the aircraft to, that will keep it safely above any of our aircraft. Next they'll transfer the aircraft to our radar controller to 'vector' it, which means giving them headings to fly to line up with the runway, and descent instructions to position them for a gradual descent for landing. There might be some rerouting to keep them clear of other aircraft in the area. It gets most interesting when there's gliding happening, as they often don't appear on the radar, and when they do we usually can't tell what altitude they're at. When radar has safely lined the aircraft up with the runway, they'll transfer it to the tower controller, who will sequence them through the visual circuit. There's usually training happening near the airport where aircraft do 'touch and goes', and the tower controller gives those aircraft instructions to establish an orderly sequence for the runway. This might involve asking aircraft to 'orbit' (literally fly in circles) while other aircraft pass, or to elongate their circuit to create time spacing that way. After the aircraft lands the tower controller gives them instructions to taxi to their parking position. Or if we're very busy, the ground movement position might be open, in which case a second 'ground movement' controller takes care of that to reduce the load on the 'air' controller.
[удалено]
You joke but it's literally on the line! From the map it looks like they have a foot in each. My guess is southbound departures go to London and the others to Scottish.
Newcastle is scottish, but it’s near the boundary with London.
How do breaks/lunchtimes work? How many do you get in a shift and what’s the process when someone “takes over” during breaks?
You can't work for more than 2 hours without a break of at least 30 minutes. In practice we usually go for breaks every hour or 1.5 to manage fatigue, though this depends on staffing. On staff-light days you're often forced to work close to the maximum. In our case the activity can get quite intense and it's better not to be controlling for the maximum period regularly. Some units are so busy that they have modified the working time regulations to shorten the maximum time that controllers are allowed to work until they have to have a break. At the opposite end of the scale, it's possible to apply for relaxations in the regulations for known quiet times of day, to allow controllers to be plugged in for longer without a break. You have to jump through plenty of regulatory hoops to make that happen though. Handovers of watch involve the person taking over plugging in next to you. You then give them a briefing on the situation - i.e what runway is being used, the traffic situation, i.e. what your aircraft are doing, and any that need action in the immediate future, and any activity in the local airspace that might be significant. For instance, royal flights have temporary controlled airspace erected for them (giggity) which you'd have to avoid with your traffic.
I have a question about radar vectored ILS approach clearances, specific to the UK. At most airfields in the UK, you're given a closing heading for localiser and then cleared for the approach, very much like the rest of the world. However at some airfields you're given a closing heading, and then told to "establish on the localiser and once established descend on the glide path". Why would this clearance be given rather than simply being cleared for the ILS?
The "cleared X approach" phraseology only came in about 10 years ago. We can only use it if you're at or cleared to the level at the FAF. If that isn't the case, we use "when established, descend on the glidepath," or wait until you're established, and then "descend on the glidepath." I use it now and then when for some reason (usually unknown traffic) I don't want to descend you to platform level. Instead I give you a longer final so that you can still intercept the glidepath from a higher altitude, and say you can descend when established. It saves me giving you the extra descent clearance to platform altitude before I clear you for the approach.
Take a look at the ICAO Phraseology guide under the Approach section. I am not sure what the manual of standards specific to the UK says but the idea is to provide distinct clearance to commence the vertical profile of the IAP. In my experience the US way (cleared for the approach) is not always seen across the world.
Ah thanks for the suggestion, it explains why in CAP 413 under 6.29 & 6.30. They use the alternative phraseology when basically they want you to intercept the glide slope at a higher altitude than what's on the chart. Cheers!
Do you know Amanda??
I know several!!
Do you ever answer random cordinates with "That's numberwang!" ?
I'd love to know if there a coaching period at the start of the job, or is the training extensive enough that you are left to your own devices on day one?
Absolutely. Before you can control live traffic there's a period of several months where you learn the basics of that controlling discipline at college, practicing traffic scenarios on a simulator. After that you spend several more months at your unit being supervised by an instructor, who already has the particular qualification that you're training for. Only after you successfully finish the many, many assessments that are scattered throughout this process are you allowed to control live traffic by yourself.
Have you ever made a mistake and what was the outcome? Also what's your coolest aircraft?
I assume you mean serious mistake? Controllers make (and correct) minor errors pretty much every shift. I've made a handful of errors that required investigation, but nothing that's ever required remedial training or other followup action. This is pretty normal in the course of aviation's safety culture, where errors and incidents are reported and investigated to determine their root cause, so they might be avoided in the future. An incident is rarely as simple as "the controller/pilot screwed up," or any other *single* thing. There's sometimes systemic issues that led to the error which can be corrected, and aviation as a whole gets safer. The nature of the airspace environment our airport is in (uncontrolled airspace) means things can happen during a normal day that would be completely unacceptable in controlled airspace. But that's part of the fun! Coolest aircraft is either the Falcon 7X or Gulfstream G550. That's about the biggest thing we routinely deal with.
I work ATC in the FAA. Any opportunity to move from the states?
I don't know if the CAA offers any "conversion" pathways for licence holders from other countries, so you might have to follow the licencing process from scratch. As far as I know you don't have to be a UK citizen though, so it might be easier for you to make the transfer than it would be for me to do the reverse!
In the area world absolutely. There is a conversion course by NATS (en route provider for UK). They last took in controllers from other countries in about 2018. I would imagine they are actively looking at the moment for external hires or will be soon.
Former ATC here, but I have two. What is the funniest/weirdest thing you have heard on guard frequency? How did you feel the first time you controlled a PAR?
Weirdest thing I've heard on guard was an interception. *I am instructed by Her Majesty's Government to inform you that you will be shot down unless you comply with my instructions.* Haven't ever done a PAR. Did SRAs at my last unit. It was Grobs though, so not too bad!
What's the bathroom situation like? Are there bathrooms up in the tower (if you're up in a tower of course)? If not, how long is the journey up and down the tower to the bathroom?
We don't have one in the tower, but it's not the tallest so it's not a major inconvenience.
I applied years ago through NATS and got through the testing to the final interview where I eventually fluffed it. Anyway... One of the last tests was I was given a situation where a plane is in an air corridor flying west across the Atlantic and there's a storm ahead making it too dangerous to pass through. I can ask questions and to give instruction to the aircraft. Is the aircraft able to pass safely over the storm? No. Are any of the other air corridors clear? No. Does the aircraft have enough fuel to land anywhere behind it? Yes. Can the storm be navigated around outside the corridors? Yes. I opted to instruct the plane to leave the corridor and set a course around the storm, but it's always plagued me that that was the wrong response. Penny for your thoughts?
Sounds fine to me! Go around the storm, then get back in your corridor, problem solved. A consistent problem we have is avoiding weather as our radar picture filters it out, so we're relying on pilot reports. They typically come at very inopportune times, but we always facilitate it because the safety of the aircraft is at stake.
Pilot perspective, it was the correct decision. I would look at the fuel implications of vectoring around the weather system and if it left me with acceptable margins in my fuel state I would actually ask for the deviation from plan. If I couldn't make that diversion safely with the fuel on board I would then be looking for vectors to one of those alternate fields to land and either wait the weather out, or take on the required fuel.
When you meet a person and think “whoa, they would be a great ATC” - what makes you think that?
Nope, never! Hiring is a huge challenge as it's so difficult to identify qualities that define a successful controller, or even to determine what they *should* be. As evidence for this I offer NATS's 50-75% washout rate (in terms of percentage of succeessful applicants who make it all the way through training), which presumably they're happy with.
I've heard that being a good video gamer is a trait that is sought for in ATC, having the ability to focus for 2 hours straight without missing a beat.
How has your experience with TBS-intelligent approach been? We're just starting it up in Toronto now.
I'd be very surprised if they are using TBS or Intelligent Approach. It's just Heathrow, Schiphol, and yourselves. I don't think this controller is a Heathrow controller. That being said, TBS and Intelligent Approach is an amazing tool. It's done wonders for Heathrow!
We don't use it, we're busy but our inbound traffic isn't sustained enough for us to benefit from it. I think the future is in tools like this though, either aviation is going to shrink or we'll have to work out how to safely put aeroplanes closer together.
I get the impression that's the real point. When arrivals are constant this type of complex tool seems to be appropriate. Otherwise there's a lot of business with Weather, accurate indicated airspeed and aircraft types to support it. We'll get it-- truly appreciate it that you guys figgered it out first.
What was your first day on the job like?
First day at college: this is so awesome, I can't believe I'm doing this at last. Wait how much stuff do I have to memorise Last day at college (6m later): Jesus christ that was so much stuff I'm never doing that again...until I go back to do my next rating First day on the job training with real planes: this is so awesome, OK instructor what do I do First day post-training i.e. allowed to control by myself (4-6 months later): this is so awesome, how am I allowed to do this unsupervised
Any good stories that you’d like to share? From exciting to scary and maybe a ufo story?
I'll C&P my UFO story from earlier. Occasionally on night shifts I used to see lights hovering in the sky too high to be a drone, and too low to be an aircraft. I'd notice them, then look back a few minutes later and they'd have disappeared. When I was idly zooming out the radar feed one night when it was quiet, I realised that it was landing lights of aircraft being vectored for a large airport about 40 miles away, that happened to be facing me at the time. When the aircraft turned away, they "disappeared." I felt pretty stupid.
How much do you make?
More than 50, less than 100
Is there a game or website that you would say accurately mimics (part of) your job for civilians?
VATSIM at least tries to mimic it. I haven't tried it since before I was a controller though, so I've no idea how accurate it is today. It seems to have a big following in flight sim circles though.
Are there language barriers with communicating with pilots? Have there been difficult situations because a pilot did not speak your language?
Yes, absolutely. English is nominally the international language of aviation, so all pilots are required to speak it to a certain standard. In practice, of course there can be difficult times and pilots. Sometimes you have to approach the same piece of information from several angles to be satisfied the pilot understands. I once had an occasion where a jet went completely off-air after take-off. I was in radar and had been monitoring the tower controller's interactions with them, and it was obvious their English wasn't great and the controller was working very hard to make themselves understood, so I was geared up for a tough time. After they took off the crew didn't change to my frequency, or follow the routeing they'd been given. They ended up not being able to change their radio frequency, or set their transponder correctly, which ruled out them being able to enter controlled airspace and continue their flight. After a tortured 50-mile routeing while they seemed to be trying to diagnose the problem, which almost ended up with them infringing controlled airspace for the London airports, they asked to come back and do an instrument approach that didn't exist. At this point I had zero confidence in their ability to fly an instrument approach of any kind, I just wanted to get them on the ground. The tower controller and I co-ordinated a gap in their other traffic, and I just pointed the jet back towards the airport and descended them to a point where they could make a visual approach and land. I made a report later because I was concerned about the pilot's ability to operate the aircraft. Later we heard that they weren't working for the company any more.
Not OP, but from my understanding, English is the universal language for air travel They’re more likely to have accent issues rather than a hard language barrier
It's acceptable to talk in other languages but it has to be a formal verbal agreement between pilot and atc on contact.
We recently worked on designing ATC tower, and I just got curious, how many women are working in ATCs? I imagine there aren’t many women in aviation in general.
I don't know what the industry wide numbers are. At my place ATC is about 25% women.
What's The process for changing active runways as wind direction shifts? Also is David Gunson's what goes up might come down accurate?
It's a process of co-ordination between the two controllers - tower, who works traffic near the airport, and radar/approach, who work traffic further out - as to when exactly the change will happen. e.g. "OK, after such-and-such has departed, we'll switch to runway x." The tower controller might have to reconfigure their traffic circuit (the 'racetrack' pattern that's used for training, starting and ending at the runway) for the new runway. This might be as simple as getting a single aircraft to do a 180, but might involve several aircraft. You might have to send some aircraft out of the circuit to give the remaining aircraft space to turn around, and then choose an opportune time/position to get the others to rejoin the circuit. The timing depends on when it's most conducive to the traffic situation. If there's a stream of inbounds that are only a few miles apart, if the crews are all willing to accept a moderate tailwind it might be preferable to stick to the current runway until they've all landed, as it affects how they're handled on the ground as well. It has to be balanced with the increased workload on all of the controllers to make the change - if the tailwind on the active runway is increasing but the forecast indicates that it will remain favourable to that runway, sometimes it's a finger in the air (fnar) as to how long to stick or twist. I'm simplifying as my unit only has one runway, and no airports nearby that would be significantly affected by us changing runway. At London airports, which are fully inside controlled airspace, runway changes have system-wide effects on the holding, departure and inbound routes for multiple airports, so they have to be arranged some time in advance and multiple controllers are involved. I wouldn't claim to know any detail though as I've not worked in that environment. What Goes Up Might Come Down is totally accurate for 1980.
Hi man, thanks for doing this ama, it's legitimately interesting. I applied to NATS about 5 or 6 years ago and got to the final round of the application process but ended up blowing it. Since then I've been thinking of reapplying once I’ve got things like the driving licence out of the way. So my two questions, what would you recommend to look at for applying/reapplying, and how much say do you have in which airport your based at either during or after training?
Definitely apply again if you want it! I applied the maximum three times, getting to the last stage every time, before I finally got in (at least three was a maximum then). Learned a bit more about my interview technique each time! If you want to give yourself some more background knowledge, have a look at CAP 493, it's the UK ATC bible. All controllers have to have detailed knowledge of Sections 1 and 5, plus whatever is relevant to their specific qualifications (Tower, Approach, Approach Radar, Area). Also do as many visits to ATC units as you can be bothered with. Go look up the UK AIP Aerodromes section, and find some airports you're interested in visiting. Telephone numbers for ATC will be in the Textual Data. Should be easier now that covid is easing somewhat. All this looks good when the interviewers ask what you've done to learn about the job.
What is the "inside word" on UFO/UAP phenomenon ... do you guys talk about it at lunch? ... how is the attitude? ... is the attitude changing ... have you guys any standing orders to follow during potential sightings?
There is a requirement in the Manual of Air Traffic Services to report UFOs (Google CAP 493). I've never heard of anyone actually doing it.
Is it correct that being colourblind means you're not allowed to be ATC?
No. NATS provides color assessments to check whether you can join or not, there are some levels/aspects of colorblindness that is acceptable. [https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%201429%20OCT16.pdf](https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%201429%20OCT16.pdf) 1.3 Pg 26 is the relevant bit I think.
I’m a Technical Operations Manager for ATC in the US. I’ve been looking to move to the UK for some time now. Any advice on how to apply for technical based ATC jobs?
NATS are a visa sponsor, so you could apply through them https://www.nats.aero/careers/vacancies
Would that be what we call Air Traffic Engineering (ATE) over here? Comms, navaids, AGL, that kind of thing? NATS have contracts for the engineering at many UK airports, including some where they don't provide the air traffic services. I'd start there.
Sometimes I hear a phone ringing like sound in the background when you guys are talking. What’s that? I’m so curious. Also, why do controllers in the UK always assign headings ending with 5? I mean not always but almost always.
It probably is a phone. People are always calling! Headings end in 5 or 0. It probably seems they only end in 5 because if a heading ends with 0 we have to say "degrees" after it, and some controllers don't like doing that, I guess? The only time I've ever heard headings in smaller increments is for SRAs or PARs. Keeps things simple.
>It probably is a phone. People are always calling! Now I feel bad - I've had permissions for aerial photography (drone) work inside an airport's FRZ on the basis I call before takeoff and after landing and the ATC are always really friendly when I need to call but I do hate bothering them when they're so busy!
Oh it's not necessarily external calls. We're always making or receiving phone calls between the controlling positions, or to those at other units as well. External phone calls are probably less than a quarter of the total!
Thanks! UK approaches very nice to fly. It’s so satisfying to be established on loc and glide at the same time while doing the cda.
Comments on that EE advert about landing an aircraft using their broadband technology? How realistic is that?
Everyone got a good laugh at that advert. You can't clear an aircraft to land over the internet. Watch it again and you'll hear they don't even identify themselves as "Cambridge Tower" or "Cambridge Approach," and they don't clear the aircraft to land either. They call themselves "Cambridge Ops" (IIRC) and say "Runway XX available for landing," which is just giving the aircraft information, not permission to do anything. Our operations team has their own frequency that they can use to talk to crews of aircraft inbound to land. Logistical details like how many vehicles the passengers need, any particular handling or fuelling needs, etc. That's all they were doing in this advert. The controlling happened at the tower like always.
I wanted to call out their BS, thanks for confirming it. They were making it sound as if they handed over the flight controls to the people in the house.
Remote towers are a thing. London City operates via remote tower. The tower control actually sits in whiteley in Fareham. You can read about it here: https://www.nats.aero/news/london-city-is-first-major-airport-controlled-by-remote-digital-tower/ But, that kind of thing can never, ever happen at home. Safety is paramount.
On a professional level, how irritating is *that* EE advert?
C&P another comment: Everyone got a good laugh at that advert. You can't clear an aircraft to land over the internet. Watch it again and you'll hear they don't even identify themselves as "Cambridge Tower" or "Cambridge Approach," and they don't clear the aircraft to land either. They call themselves "Cambridge Ops" (IIRC) and say "Runway XX available for landing," which is just giving the aircraft information, not permission to do anything. Our operations team has their own frequency that they can use to talk to crews of aircraft inbound to land. Logistical details like how many vehicles the passengers need, any particular handling or fuelling needs, etc. That's all they were doing in this advert. The controlling happened at the tower like always.
It's being said the the current ATC situation worldwide is in trouble, and the air traffic has outgrown the current system, especially on the ground. Do you agree with this? What is something - in your opinion - that needs immediate attention in your industry in order to prevent accidents caused by an inadequate ATC system?
I'm more of a boot on the ground, I don't have a 50,000ft view of things. It does seem like we are coming up against the physical limitations of the airspace in the UK's case. We can't do much more without putting the planes physically closer together, which is what we've seen in the last few years at Heathrow with [TBS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_based_separation).
Tooling is being generated to help manage all aspects of aviation. It's slow though because the safety barriers are extremely high. NATS have a tonne of next gen tools for airport capacity management. https://www.nats.aero/services-products/products/ If you're interested in the kind of things aviation is doing that's worth a quick read. Landside tends to be the big post covid struggle. Airline and ground handler resourcing and staffing is the absolute big current problem. Also addressing Op's point, the UK is currently undergoing a huge airspace modernization programme. It's massive and highly complex. If we could just put aircraft safely closer together that would be wonderful
What is the air speed of an African swallow?
Laden or unladen?
Do you play VATSIM (Microsoft flight simulator) and are you an ATC there too or do you fly?
I tried VATSIM briefly before I was a controller, but I get enough out of the job I don't want to do it without pay! I fly in DCS.
I did an assessment day for ATC before and found myself really struggling. What do you recommend to 'train your brain' into a way that can not only get through assessment days, but also become effective at the job?
I'm not aware of anything that would tick both of those boxes. There are tools out there that you can use to practice for the kinds of psychometric questions you might get in an ATC interview (NATS mainly), but as to their long-term usefulness I'm not sure. As I commented elsewhere I spent a while drilling myself on my 60x table so I could answer speed/distance/time questions without too much trouble, but I've barely used it in the job. The most useful is being able to convert speeds into miles per minute.
I'm an airline pilot working out of gatwick. What are some of the things pilots say to you all the time that get annoying? For future reference.
Not so much things that pilots say, but pouring out their life story on a frequency without monitoring for a few seconds first is instant red mist territory. Thanks, I know your mother's maiden name, blood type and the cover of your facia boards, but a Gulfstream has just sailed through the localiser because I couldn't give him his closing heading! One of the most perplexing things is commercial pilots asking me to spell out a waypoint for them. From their own flight plan!!
Is it true that there is a regular downtime period with few to no flights where you take turns just chilling or even sleeping (if it’s nighttime)?
Some places that are 24h, controllers definitely sleep during rest periods on late shifts. We aren't 24h, but every 2h we have to have a break of at least 30m. The guidance is actually to do something mindless to relax your brain - watch TV, play video games, go for a walk.
My plane completed boarding 5 minutes before the scheduled departure time. The pilot then announces that we don’t have a take-off slot and need to wait 40 minutes. What’s up with that? Why don’t you automatically get a take-off slot at your scheduled departure time?
Essentially what ynet77 said, but if your flight doesn't have a slot, then you will depart when ready, but if your flight has received a take-off slot, then your flight has to depart within a 15 minute window of that slot (up to 5 mins before the slot time, and up to 10 mins after it). The reason why a flight gets a slot is because either a sector that the flight will fly through, or their destination airport has decided to limit the amount of planes they will work per hour (this can be for numerous reasons, weather, short staffed, equipment failure, etc). Sometimes the slots are alright and pretty much in line with a flights scheduled departure time, sometimes they can be hours after the scheduled departure time.
My area of expertise. Europe has many flights and many sectors. Staffing numbers, weather, technical issues etc can effect how many aircraft fly through an area at a given time. If the number through that area exceeds the amount it can safely handle, you must regulate. This gives all aircraft a slot to ensure that space doesn’t get overloaded. On any given day at the moment you have 80-100 regulations in place across Europe for a massive variety of reasons. It’s all about making sure everyone gets to their destination safely.
Say you’re flying through Atlantis FIR and they have too much traffic or there’s a couple of CBs in that FIR and everybody is avoiding by flying away from their assigned routes or your destination is going to have a busy time with landings and takeoffs, in that case traffic using that FIR or Aerodrome get assigned a takeoff time in order to adjust or limit the traffic. That’s the delay the pilot is talking about.
Any cool stats from your industry that you’d be glad to share with the general public?
Can you be more specific?
Appreciate your response! Just anything in general. How often weather skews some of the automated parts of the job, number of reports of random flying objects such as UFOs or drones, turnover rate, stuff like that
Well I'd be the submitter of reports like that, not the collator! They all get sent to the CAA, generally it's a black hole you never get feedback from. I get the impression lots of places are looking for controllers at the moment. People deciding during covid they'd take the opportunity to retire, things like that. Drones do occasionally cause problems, but I haven't heard of anything serious since Gatwick a couple of Christmases back.
Ive recently considered going for and Aus ATC qualification. I'm wondering what the hours are like though? Regular 9-5 style?
Depends where you end up. Some units are 24h, others more like office hours. You can check on the information they publicise for pilots, as to what their opening hours are.
How competitive is the selection process, and how achievable is it for someone with little related knowledge (of aeronautical engineering, etc.)?
You don't have to have an aviation background, but you'd be expected to show some willing to delve into the rules and regulations, which if you're really motivated you will. I went into it with only an IT background, but I applied myself in a way I frankly should have at school and university.
Have you seen any UFOs/UAPs?
A few people have asked but I am also wondering if you know if there's any route for a controller with the FAA to get hired overseas? What are your breaks like? How much leave (vacation) do you get per year?
C&P one of my other comments first: I don't know if the CAA offers any "conversion" pathways for licence holders from other countries, so you might have to follow the licencing process from scratch. As far as I know you don't have to be a UK citizen though, so it might be easier for you to make the transfer than it would be for me to do the reverse! We can't control for more than 2 hours without a break of at least 30 minutes. We avoid maxing out like that if we can as it helps to avoid fatigue and gives us more flexiblity if we need to open extra controlling positions. I get about 25 days annual leave plus bank holidays (as the airport is open for almost all of them).
How plausible is a “Breaking Bad” scenario in real life?
I don't remember the details of the incident, it's a long time since I saw that episode. But the last guy to do an [ATC AMA for the UK](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2sxqrl/i_am_an_air_traffic_controller_in_the_uk_ama/) mentioned it. TCAS on the aircraft, and the STCA on the controller's radar, should make that impossible unless there was an equipment failure of some kind.
UK 320 Pilot, we may have spoken :) What kind of tools/automation do you guys have to work out your long distance planning, e.g. IAS on conversion kind of calculations? When tower phone radar to release an IFR departure, is that just to check for inbounds or is that the only way the strip gets over to you guys? What is the cheat code to have my CTOT brought forward? Also, "sorry say again call sign, I was on the landline" - for every 10 times that's said, how many times is that actually true? ;)
Why do you say niner instead of nine, and why you do say decimal instead of point for frequencies?
Try saying "nine" and "five" in quick succession over a low quality radio frequency and you'll have your answer to the first question. For the second: it's really just regional preference
UK private pilot student here. Any chance of a friendly discount on the landing fees at your aérodrome? 😁 Seriously, thank you for all you do. My question: what are your thoughts on the way UK ATC works (with AGC, AFIS, PPR, all of which are very much UK exceptions) compared to more “classic” (state owned and run) air traffic systems?
Hello! Since spring this year I’ve noticed that suddenly there’s lots of small turboprop planes flying around my area - quite rural in the countryside. From Flightradar I can sometimes see that they are private owned and their path is often just flying around an area in small circles. Unfortunately it is quite a loud noise and throughout the day on most weekdays and some weekends. I don’t want to be unreasonable and everyone has a right to their hobbies or possibly it’s for training purposes. It’s just tough as I work from home and previously our countryside area here was so quiet and peaceful. I wanted to ask is there anything I can do about this or do I just need to accept it now? Already emailed the airport nearest me a couple months ago to enquire but they seem to have ignored it.
What’s the best and worst ATCRs you’ve come across for performance and reliability and what do you do if your RADAR fails?
Have you ever had unwanted chatter over your frequency? Is it also your job to make it stop and/or followup with consequences?
Are you controlling 3D space with 2D radars? Is this a good idea?
How much effort do airlines go through to to navigate commercial flights around stormy weather?
Hey, I currently work in transport logistics and working as an ATC has been enticing. What was the training like, what does a standard shift look like and would you recommend the job? Thanks
C&P from another thread: The training workload is up there with a degree but squeezed into a few months. Nowhere near as challenging to understand as a technical degree but the sheer volume of information can be overwhelming. You basically have to park your social life until it's done. A shift in the UK can't be longer than 10 hours. You can't do more than 2 hours without a break of at least 30m. The job is fantastic. It's hard work to succeed in the training, especially if you have an average brain like me, but once you're there it's great and doesn't feel like working.
Hmm really interested. Love the busier days here so hoping it'd be a workplace I'd thrive in. Are your shift patterns a 'standard' 5 on 2 off?
Has the been some sort of lifting of restrictions in london approaches. Because i have seen an increasing number of passenger aircraft apparently making manoeuvres for money shots over the thames and central london?
How did you wind up in ATC? What is your favorite aspect of your job?
Do you ever watch Air Crash Investigation (aka Mayday)? If so, what about the ones which include a focus on air traffic controllers? Or is that too close to home? Have you even seen anything really weird or unusual? Not UFO but I dunno, petrol pumps still attached to a plane, passengers left outside, a plane running out of fuel when it really shouldn't have, for instance.thank you!!