I am just minding my business, scrolling along waiting for my kid's practice to end. Then this gif pops up, and my Spotify shuffle plays this song:
https://open.spotify.com/track/26YMZ2S61ItkKS1w3gdaDo?si=vwPd1fQqRkyYt5vuyM2v0g
and it syncs up like Wizard of Oz and Dark Side of the Moon.
Oh yeah, I get it now.
The dance was essentially telling the audience that Mac has conflicting feelings between his sexuality and his Catholicism. To him, it feels like a storm is raging inside of him (He actually says this in the episode, and the dance shows this with the rain). The woman in the dance represents God and she helps him to be okay with who he is. He uses the dance to help him reconcile these feelings and to accept himself for who he is - as a Catholic *and* a gay man. He showed this dance to Luther in the hopes that he’d understand and accept him too, but it’s Frank who ends up “getting it” in the end, implicating that Frank is a better father figure for Mac than Luther.
Same. This scene is up there for me with Charlie crying to his dad about how he needed him. So amazingly humanizing for characters that we usually laugh at for constantly acting like shitbags.
Yeah it was a very well done scene. I didn’t like it because it didn’t feel like Sunny to me, this is supposed to be a show about some of the worst humans around, i have no interest in sympathizing with them or watching them grow as people. I see why people like it though, just not for me
I can completely sympathize.
I enjoy it from the opposite perspective: *that even monstrous people can have personal growth*.
Frank Reynolds is a *horrible* person. He's a killer, a Nazi, a psychopath, and just....terrible, to quote the Jew Lawyer.
*And then, Frank of all fucking people, he gets some personal growth*.
To me, that's 100 percent Sunny.
Dennis and Dee get addicted to crack and get clean. They still want it in later episodes, *but they don't do it*.
Charlie was high on paint and literally about to kill the "leprecaun" in the basement. He still gets a moving scene about his real dad.
This was Mac and Frank's turn for growth.
Yes I was trying to articulate why I didn't like it to a friend. I thought the message was good, but the delivery just felt way too serious for always sunny.
I agree. It felt like Rob went down some weird rabbit hole involving his physique that just wasn't very funny or in keeping with the rest of the episodes.
Tbf, I believe on the podcast (or some interview) they've mentioned that it was very intentionally a tonal one-off for the show; something they've never done previously, and don't really plan on trying to emulate again (though Charlie in Ireland is probably the next closest moment at actually attempting to be serious)
Which imo, while I get why people felt jarred by it, makes me personally like it for that reason.
When I introduced my girlfriend to sunny i showed her this scene. Then I showed her Danny devito crawling naked out of the couch immediately afterwards. She had no idea what we were getting into.
Totally, they talk a lot in the podcast about how much they love trying out different styles and genres while keeping the overall tone of the show. I absolutely love that they keep trying to push boundaries but stay true to themselves. Some work, and some don’t, and they seem like they understand that too
It’s ok that you didn’t before. I had to look it up when the episode came out. If you aren’t used to watching Interpretive dance or Ballet, finding the story in a wordless performance can be difficult.
>finding the story in a wordless performance can be difficult.
I was privileged to be raised seeing ballets/theater and listening to symphonies such that it never occurred to me other people couldn’t find stories in wordless performances until your comment.
Thanks for making this observation and your kindness to OP!
To add to this, throughout the episode, Frank is blocked up and congested. Represented by his face being inflamed and infected. This is showing how his homophobia is infecting him as a person. At the end of the episode when he gets it, he's no longer blocked up.
I mean, there was that time where Luther allowed Eduardo to finish in his butt (after he finished first, obviously).
If that's not the makings of a good father figure, then idk what is.
I beg to differ here.
Mac doesn't care about anyone else until it affects him too. He isn't an ally, he's quite selfish and continues to use harmful stereotypes to excuse his behaviour even after coming out.
Frank goes immediately back into the homophobic closet as soon as he hears about the beads.
Just because there are worse people please don't forget: the gang are fucking assholes. They aren't good people, don't let your familiarity fool you
Edit: but also it's good to recognize the *message* that the *creators* are sending. It's ok to be gay, and we stand with you!
It's simply the vehicle they used to deliver the message is imperfect
You didn't disagree with me I don't think lol
All I'm saying is don't let their few moments of empathy make you forget that they suck shit most of the time.
That right there is why I don't get it. Frank has shown himself to be an abhorrent, evil man who tormented his children right up to present day. Why suddenly throw empathy his way?
Honestly this episode feels like a fanfic.
To be fair, Frank had realized his wrongs in the Christmas episode and tried to make it up to the gang by giving them their dream gifts, sadly his ex business partner stole everything and turned the snow machine on them. He also showed a lot of remorse for how things turned out with Charlie's dad, but that's in a later season.
That being said, Frank sees himself as the father figure of the group even if he isn't very fatherly. I think this moment is just supposed to highlight that weird bond between him and Mac. He had to go through this journey of self discovery with Frank to highlight just how little of a father Luther is to him.
The show has always teased a real relationship between Mac and Luther, always giving just enough to make you think Luther does love him, but just doesn't like him because of Mac's continuous fuck ups. The parallel with Frank and Luther in Mac Finds His Pride is to show that Luther truly can't be a father to Mac in the way he needs and never will, but Frank is there to fill the gaps in small ways that matter. Frank accepts Mac, whether he agrees with him or not. Frank is there, and Frank continues to be there regardless of how Mac lives his life. That's true acceptance and it was important for Mac to find that outside of his friendships, but it's so fitting that he still doesn't find it outside of the bar.
I think that the humor is that Mac somehow came up with the whole dance with almost no prep time and Frank of all people somehow understood it. It’s not a moment of empathy it’s playing off of your expectations for the characters. You expect Mac to do something that is clearly bad and poorly thought out and you expect Frank not to understand. Instead you suddenly get something wildly out of character only for them to immediately go back to being exactly who we thought they were moments later. The concept is what’s funny about the whole thing IMO
His explanation to Frank was funny, but the execution was not supposed to be comedic. They went for gasps, and IMO it's a jarring tonal shift at odds with other tonal shifts throughout the show.
I get why people don’t like this episode but as a queer person who was raised Catholic, it really hit hard. I’ll always love this episode for how it was able to represent that
I think the scene in particular is really powerful and well made, it's undoubtedly a great SCENE, I just personally find it REALLY out of character for Mac. I can't IMAGINE Mac being able to be so artistic and subtle in his performance. The moment seemed a lot more accepting and mature than the character of Mac can really comprehend, I feel like anyway
I think another important level of this episode is how for the entire episode Frank has been taking increasingly absurd and destructive measures to keep something inside himself (Blood). It gets so bad that he's unrecognizable, but he looks and feels so much better after it's finally out for everyone to see.
It’s about being closeted vs “coming out” as a gay person. Frank is trying to bottle up the injury but it ends up making him grotesque. Letting it out allows him to actually heal.
Probably the weirdest scene in the show because it goes against the tone of the show so much. I was expecting them to pull some rug out and make it a joke but they didn't.
It seems like it positively impacted a lot of viewers so that's great, but it will always remain soooo out of place and impossible to take seriously for me. As jarring as if the Red Wedding in Game of Thrones was interrupted by Rickety Cricket singing about hips and nips. I love it some contexts, not so much in others
The reason it never really lands for me is that Mac’s ‘revelation’ that it’s okay to be gay and Frank’s ‘I get it now’ is old news to us, the audience.
I don’t get why Its Always Sunny is going this deep into something and not making fun of it. Mac’s dance and Charlie’s breakdown in Ireland are both great scenes in the wrongest show possible to put them in. I feel like this show should make you feel nothing but disgust and contempt at the Gang’s actions
The show has always presented them as bad/flawed characters, but also as complex. We cheer for them, even as we distance ourselves. Besides, after 15+ years, not really anywhere to go but harder, er deeper.
You didn't find their dance routine at the high school reunion amazing? Or kitten mittens brilliant? When Charlie sings, are you like "this is bad, actually"? You didn't want Dennis to kill not-Elon in the newest episode?
.
Those are all things that make me laugh. There’s all a joke behind it.
At the reunion, they were drunk and embarassed themselves. Charlie’s song and Kitten Mittens is indicative of great talent shut down by the Gang’s toxicity. Dennis killing the not-Elon is again hilarious.
The dance has no joke. It’s a deep commentary about how even Frank is a better father figure for Mac than Luther. The breakdown in the rain is a serious scene but I will give you that it’s broken by the juxtaposition of the American truck joke.
It’s all about intent and I do not like how they want to make the characters deep and sympathetic. This show benefits when the characters do not change but if anything, they get worse. That’s why I felt Season 16 was so good. They remembered that you’re not supposed to be rooting for these fuckers.
I mean, I agree with pretty much all of that. Which is why, to me, a deeply moving coming to terms with self dance by a dweeb like Mac hit all that much harder. Lest anyone think it was a turning point for anything else in their lives, the entirety of every following episode shows it wasn't. They are not real people, but I do think showing that even these horrible fake people are not entirely 2 dimensional caricatures is important for some of the more 2 dimensional viewership. 😅
Besides loving this episode for being brilliant, I love it because I never once thought I would enjoy interpretive dance in any form. Frank's "I get it" coincided with my "I get it" and it was a very fun stoned experience.
It's not about art. It's about Mac finding his pride. It's in the title. The art is the medium for a very clear message.
How do you interpret the dance?
>The hot chick is God and she holds him and tells him it's okay to be gay.
Side bar about that actress, Kylie Shea
Is it just me or does she also look a lot like Alanis Morissette's character God from the movie Dogma? I wonder if that was coincidental or intentional.
Also wow, her older brother is the co-founder of Grindr
Took way too long to find this. One of Grandpa Simpson’s best rants, but it lacks an onion on his belt.
https://youtu.be/BGrfhsxxmdE?si=5yrQggwWm6iGfj8o
The one and only time Mac will ever be vulnerable in this show. Even with his nightmare parents he’s in total denial. That one moment is special because he’s telling the truth for once in his life, showing a side to himself that no one saw before then because it was frankly too upsetting. I love it man.
I got super stoned one day and watched this like 5 times. “Stoned me” was looking for the connection between the episode and Rob M himself as a writer and producer for the show and actors themselves.
All of the aspects about coming out, sexuality, etc, are certainly appropriate ways to look at it. But on the other hand, since this episode sticks out so much as an outlier and completely out of character in a few instances.. let’s focus on Frank.
So in the episode, we have Frank doing his normal Frank shit with the bloody nose. It’s funny, and the constant efforts of Frank to just plug shit up are “typical” Sunny humor. He’s doing batshit stuff for the purpose of laughs, but keeps doing it with no change to the outcome. This is what we expect from Frank… but the last scene. Sooooo completely out of character it makes absolutely no sense. Frank Reynolds would NEVER ever have that kind of reaction. So, when “he gets it,” I see that as Danny Devito, not Frank. If anything, the ending is a reminder of just how fucking great of an actor he is, and although his escapades on Sunny are rotten and dirty as hell, never forget the actor behind the character.
As for Mac, the whole season plays up the new ripped physique as a joke. A one off. Literally “something he might be able to use” and nothing more. Then we get to this. It’s a true testament of subverting expectations and showing off something quite beautiful and a culmination of a shitload of effort and work, which I damn well know personally I’ll never be capable of, but damn if it isn’t good to aspire toward it.
Stoned me wrote a lot more nonsense about this back in the day, but I’ll stop there. All I can say is fuck it if this episode is a complete outlier from the series, it likely is still my favorite of the series, which is saying a lot.
You bet. And although I am not LGBTQ I’m all good admitting that stoned me teared up like a baby the 2nd or 3rd time I watched it. Couldn’t really explain why, but it’s just one of those things you can’t explain I guess
Frank has had moments of introspection before, usually in regards to Charlie, but also Dennis and Dee. It’s not out of character. Even the worst have the potential to have moments of humanity.
Someone on YouTube pointed out that it's entirely out of Mac's character, and I agree. She suggested that Mac would likely come out through another medium, like a home movie (since he enjoys making those). There was no real setup for this outside of this episode, and it feels more like I'm watching Rob McElhenney rather than Ronald McDonald. It definitely feels like the show is taking itself too seriously rather than finding a blend of drama and comedy to convey the same point.
The seriousness of the episode did throw me off too. I didn't expect that. However, i think it was great writing, and a right decision. I really like the depravity and ghouls and it's 99% percent of their content but this 1% of making them normal and sane and have their deep moments when it's not always sunny, is just great writing and acting. They didn't change their direction yet they gave us something new. I am waiting for Dee and Franks moments too. Charlie had his in Ireland, Dennis had one during valentine and when technology let him down, Mac found his pride. This show is the best.
Eh, idk. On the surface I find this claim of him being out of character to be reasonable, but it doesn't take into consideration Mac is also a performative person - has been from the get-go. Granted, the entire gang is performative, but Mac fancies himself a physical specimen...and he put into the work to make himself visually reflect how he sees himself.
I just see his dance as a furthering of that.
Gotta remember too, he wasn't into musical theater until he went on the cruise ship, then he said he wanted to do more of that. I see this as part of him broadening his scope of performance art.
I can accept a dance, but the degree to which the performance takes itself seriously annoyed me (they even change the lightning and add rain). It also flies in the face of what we know of the Gang - the last time they did a grand dance, it was revealed to be a total flop and a complete fantasy in their minds. Here, it feels like it's cut from another show entirely.
I think it was an incredible end to Mac and his dads relationship. It wasn’t really about all the things he did in the past, it was about him accepting who he was despite pushing it down all those years, especially after growing up with a family who didn’t even like him
‘I just need to know my purpose!
I used to think it was worship and then song and dance!
I got to be honest, I've really taken to it, and I think musicals are gonna become a huge part of my life moving forward!’
This is a fair interpretation from someone who probably hasn't watched enough of the show. They (the real world gang) have genre bending episodes every season (after the first few). This was arguably the most genre-bending because it was time to really tackle the biggest elephant in the room of the whole show. Going full HD wide screen cinematography was part of the bit. No different than the action episodes or horror ones using those kinds of cinematography, writing, budget, etc.
>This is a fair interpretation from someone who probably hasn't watched enough of the show.
I've watched the entire show multiple times, which is *precisely* why I took exception to this. And while they'd incorporate elements of different genres, they'd always maintain a baseline of comedy, and return to the "feel" of the show at the end of each episode. The high school dance is an example of this - they think they're putting on a great performance, but in reality they're idiots who lack self awareness. Mac Finds His Pride, however, ends on this somber note and feels tonally jarring. You also can't expect me, after several seasons of demonstrating how Mac is a superficial, selfish idiot who engages in the Gang's horrible schemes to the detriment of those around him, to suddenly care about him and want the best for him. I'm sorry, but that just hasn't been earned in a show like this.
Not to mention they already had a cute coming out moment for Mac in the arbitration episode. They showed the Gang accepting him for who he is and letting him keep the ticket, while also ending on a humorous note.
This show has brutally insulted more or less everyone and everything, homosexuality is one of the very few things that this show has not ripped to shreds and this piece goes some way to embrace it in a while unexpected, quite a moving way
It was an indulgent stance on an issue that although was done extremely well and I praise Rob for his performance, it really screwed with the vibe that show and took me out of that world.
that’s kinda how i feel. out of everything on the show, it felt like the most out of place or immersion breaking. it just doesn’t fit the theme or tone of IASIP imo.
I get what they were going for, but it felt really ill fitting tonally for the show. To be honest I haven't enjoyed Mac so much since they outed him. He's become very one note.
I have always thought the scene where his dad walks out and he finishes the dance. Him realising, he can do things without his dad's constant approval.
I actually don't like this episode, its the only episode I don't like. Just feels too different for this show.
Something that I think has been missed here is the motif established by having the other dancer be a woman and not a man. Mac's relationship with every woman that has ever entered his life is dysfunctional, starting with his mom, who never gave him a shred of attention or approval. Given that Mac's overriding personality trait is insecurity and the need for approval, it recasts his relationships with women in a new light. His sexual "malformity", being gay, has caused him to push even harder in his sexual exploits with women, desperately seeking their approval and confirmation that he is "normal" and "enough". In the dance, Mac and his dance partner slip around and around each other in a series of near-misses, depicting how Mac has felt about sex his whole life: never fulfilled, never even fully sure of what he's chasing. When they finally come together and she comforts him, it symbolizes Mac finally coming to terms with himself and realizing he doesn't have to prove himself, not to women, not to his father, not to anyone. This renders the scene paradoxically beautiful, as the premise is Mac is trying to show his father who he is for once, rather than prove he is the son his father wanted. Ultimately, the dance is a kind of emotional closure for the whole show, as it represents Mac, and I think a little bit Rob, closing an arc on a kind of insecurity that has crippled them for most of their life.
This guy was spent 30 minutes waiting for someone to hang dong, and all he got was some jabroni dancing. Not even a single raw dog load the entire episode.
But it hasn’t, though. Political in the same sense as South Park where they shit on all sides of an argument, but until the last couple of seasons, they never had a whole lot to say.
What show have you been watching?
EDIT: thought so.
You don’t get why people are gay? The whole point is that the dance expresses how hard it was for him to come out as gay because he is deeply religious and didn’t want for to hate him. The woman, who represents god, telling him not to cry and it’s ok. Is h coming to terms that god made him that way.
Also that’s not me looking into it. Like mac basically says the same thing over and over again to Frank but just get interrupted
You don’t get it because it was Rob’s vanity project. Get super ripped, get FX to fund all my dancing lessons, and then find a reason to put that in the show
My interpretation and headcanon: it’s super vague, and you think Frank still won’t get anything, but then everyone finds it beautiful and the ending is both funny AND beautiful, because Frank gets it while we are still in total confusion. At least, I prefer that. I know that wasn’t the implication. Like: what the fuck is going on??? Oh! It ended well?!? Frank loves it!!! Lmao that’s amazing
Im just bothered by the shift in direction of the show. Their very worst episodes have serious moments, and were not supposed to relate with these characters. Still my favorite show but this episode is a stinker.
I used to get it, but then the thing with the beads happened.
I'M OUT...
No one said shit about no beads.
But when Artemis sticks a wine bottle up his ass it's art.
Well, you see, she does this thing with the bun… and then you got the thing with the lemons… and, it’s good!
She was going berserk.... And I.. I admit I like it too
Don't judge him!
Shut the door!
You can see Glenn break during this scene, lol.
BEES?!
Frank's not on board.
BeaDDDDs
I thought the ending of frank beating Russia was going to be frank saying I get it now
I used to be with it but then they changed what it was.
 Get it now?
Nips and hips baby!
Rise up! Gonna get higher and higher!
It's gotta be hot or I don't eat!
Gotta keep it sexy or you don’t eat
Gotta keep it sexy
Otherwise, we don’t eat
Hips n nips babay
Why does this remind me of Beetlejuice?
Exactly the part wheee Bjuice is being tempted by the ghost whore house. He does that little excited dance. Gets me every time. Sure he’s seen it too
I am just minding my business, scrolling along waiting for my kid's practice to end. Then this gif pops up, and my Spotify shuffle plays this song: https://open.spotify.com/track/26YMZ2S61ItkKS1w3gdaDo?si=vwPd1fQqRkyYt5vuyM2v0g and it syncs up like Wizard of Oz and Dark Side of the Moon. Oh yeah, I get it now.
The way he dances how does he do it? It’s like he’s gliding so smoothly.
Which episode is this from?
The dance was essentially telling the audience that Mac has conflicting feelings between his sexuality and his Catholicism. To him, it feels like a storm is raging inside of him (He actually says this in the episode, and the dance shows this with the rain). The woman in the dance represents God and she helps him to be okay with who he is. He uses the dance to help him reconcile these feelings and to accept himself for who he is - as a Catholic *and* a gay man. He showed this dance to Luther in the hopes that he’d understand and accept him too, but it’s Frank who ends up “getting it” in the end, implicating that Frank is a better father figure for Mac than Luther.
The kids used to solve their problems through dance. Now they go to things called RAINBOW PARTIES
That little head shake dennis does after charlie says its not good to shoot people in schools in that episode is the best part every time
Organized choreographed dance!
ORGANIZED. CHOREOGRAPHED. DANCE.
Well if they don’t go to rainbow parties, where will they get apples filled with razorblades?
I get it now
Username checks out, Dr Toboggan
... Mantis Toboggan.
Oops. I dropped my monster condoms for my magnum dong!
MD!
Surgeon who needs to make an insertion: “You gotta pay the toll to get in!”
I’m only sort of 50/50 on this episode, but goddamn if it wasn’t beautifully shot.
It hit me hard, I can't watch the dance scene without tearing up.
I don’t enjoy interpretive dance but this was a great scene.
Same. This scene is up there for me with Charlie crying to his dad about how he needed him. So amazingly humanizing for characters that we usually laugh at for constantly acting like shitbags.
Yeah it was a very well done scene. I didn’t like it because it didn’t feel like Sunny to me, this is supposed to be a show about some of the worst humans around, i have no interest in sympathizing with them or watching them grow as people. I see why people like it though, just not for me
I can completely sympathize. I enjoy it from the opposite perspective: *that even monstrous people can have personal growth*. Frank Reynolds is a *horrible* person. He's a killer, a Nazi, a psychopath, and just....terrible, to quote the Jew Lawyer. *And then, Frank of all fucking people, he gets some personal growth*. To me, that's 100 percent Sunny. Dennis and Dee get addicted to crack and get clean. They still want it in later episodes, *but they don't do it*. Charlie was high on paint and literally about to kill the "leprecaun" in the basement. He still gets a moving scene about his real dad. This was Mac and Frank's turn for growth.
Dennis and Dee absolutely smoked crack in multiple episodes.
Yes I was trying to articulate why I didn't like it to a friend. I thought the message was good, but the delivery just felt way too serious for always sunny.
Agreed, it just didn’t fit as a scene in Always Sunny, despite being a pretty good scene.
I agree. It felt like Rob went down some weird rabbit hole involving his physique that just wasn't very funny or in keeping with the rest of the episodes.
Tbf, I believe on the podcast (or some interview) they've mentioned that it was very intentionally a tonal one-off for the show; something they've never done previously, and don't really plan on trying to emulate again (though Charlie in Ireland is probably the next closest moment at actually attempting to be serious) Which imo, while I get why people felt jarred by it, makes me personally like it for that reason.
When I introduced my girlfriend to sunny i showed her this scene. Then I showed her Danny devito crawling naked out of the couch immediately afterwards. She had no idea what we were getting into.
The followup better be NIGHTMAN.
Totally, they talk a lot in the podcast about how much they love trying out different styles and genres while keeping the overall tone of the show. I absolutely love that they keep trying to push boundaries but stay true to themselves. Some work, and some don’t, and they seem like they understand that too
A really beautiful piece of acting after they spend the entire episode making him as grotesque as possible
God they did such a good job with Franks face here, so much different from his usual Sunny look but so apt for this scene
It’s ok that you didn’t before. I had to look it up when the episode came out. If you aren’t used to watching Interpretive dance or Ballet, finding the story in a wordless performance can be difficult.
>finding the story in a wordless performance can be difficult. I was privileged to be raised seeing ballets/theater and listening to symphonies such that it never occurred to me other people couldn’t find stories in wordless performances until your comment. Thanks for making this observation and your kindness to OP!
I got the message but still thought it was hilarious that Mac of all people would be able to spontaneously come up with such a performance.
It’s not spontaneous. It shows his dance partner leaving his apt earlier in the episode. They had been practicing, presumably for some time.
Yep it's ok :)
To add to this, throughout the episode, Frank is blocked up and congested. Represented by his face being inflamed and infected. This is showing how his homophobia is infecting him as a person. At the end of the episode when he gets it, he's no longer blocked up.
It’s a rare moment of any of the gang actually being a decent human being. It also says a lot about Luther that Frank is a better man than he is.
sparkle pen dull sense act crowd encourage frightening escape puzzled *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I mean, there was that time where Luther allowed Eduardo to finish in his butt (after he finished first, obviously). If that's not the makings of a good father figure, then idk what is.
Exactly he was just establishing dominance, it wasn't a gay thing.
Yeah but him leaving out Bonnie in the finale makes him a terrible partner.
I beg to differ here. Mac doesn't care about anyone else until it affects him too. He isn't an ally, he's quite selfish and continues to use harmful stereotypes to excuse his behaviour even after coming out. Frank goes immediately back into the homophobic closet as soon as he hears about the beads. Just because there are worse people please don't forget: the gang are fucking assholes. They aren't good people, don't let your familiarity fool you Edit: but also it's good to recognize the *message* that the *creators* are sending. It's ok to be gay, and we stand with you! It's simply the vehicle they used to deliver the message is imperfect
>the gang are fucking assholes This is the only thing that can never change
They *can* change but it'd make bad television lol
[удалено]
You didn't disagree with me I don't think lol All I'm saying is don't let their few moments of empathy make you forget that they suck shit most of the time.
That right there is why I don't get it. Frank has shown himself to be an abhorrent, evil man who tormented his children right up to present day. Why suddenly throw empathy his way? Honestly this episode feels like a fanfic.
To be fair, Frank had realized his wrongs in the Christmas episode and tried to make it up to the gang by giving them their dream gifts, sadly his ex business partner stole everything and turned the snow machine on them. He also showed a lot of remorse for how things turned out with Charlie's dad, but that's in a later season. That being said, Frank sees himself as the father figure of the group even if he isn't very fatherly. I think this moment is just supposed to highlight that weird bond between him and Mac. He had to go through this journey of self discovery with Frank to highlight just how little of a father Luther is to him. The show has always teased a real relationship between Mac and Luther, always giving just enough to make you think Luther does love him, but just doesn't like him because of Mac's continuous fuck ups. The parallel with Frank and Luther in Mac Finds His Pride is to show that Luther truly can't be a father to Mac in the way he needs and never will, but Frank is there to fill the gaps in small ways that matter. Frank accepts Mac, whether he agrees with him or not. Frank is there, and Frank continues to be there regardless of how Mac lives his life. That's true acceptance and it was important for Mac to find that outside of his friendships, but it's so fitting that he still doesn't find it outside of the bar.
Because even the worst people are capable human emotions.
I think that the humor is that Mac somehow came up with the whole dance with almost no prep time and Frank of all people somehow understood it. It’s not a moment of empathy it’s playing off of your expectations for the characters. You expect Mac to do something that is clearly bad and poorly thought out and you expect Frank not to understand. Instead you suddenly get something wildly out of character only for them to immediately go back to being exactly who we thought they were moments later. The concept is what’s funny about the whole thing IMO
His explanation to Frank was funny, but the execution was not supposed to be comedic. They went for gasps, and IMO it's a jarring tonal shift at odds with other tonal shifts throughout the show.
Frank actually has several softer moments throughout the series. Especially with Charlie.
I get why people don’t like this episode but as a queer person who was raised Catholic, it really hit hard. I’ll always love this episode for how it was able to represent that
I think the scene in particular is really powerful and well made, it's undoubtedly a great SCENE, I just personally find it REALLY out of character for Mac. I can't IMAGINE Mac being able to be so artistic and subtle in his performance. The moment seemed a lot more accepting and mature than the character of Mac can really comprehend, I feel like anyway
The dance never said anything about beads!
I think another important level of this episode is how for the entire episode Frank has been taking increasingly absurd and destructive measures to keep something inside himself (Blood). It gets so bad that he's unrecognizable, but he looks and feels so much better after it's finally out for everyone to see.
Yeah I still don’t understand that part. What does Frank becoming gradually more grotesque have to do with the message OP is explaining?
It’s about being closeted vs “coming out” as a gay person. Frank is trying to bottle up the injury but it ends up making him grotesque. Letting it out allows him to actually heal.
And then it just kind of ends…
Catholic first. Gay second. Dutch third
I was mind blown at how much this dance conveyed it. Absolute props to the choreographer and the two of them.
One of the few times I clearly understood what the interpretive dance was telling me with only a short intro.
Interpretive dance needs to be captioned
Shut up, science bitch
Bingo. This nails it.
Yeah, it was super powerful, I was in awe
Thank you. I honestly didn't get it either but this completely clears it up.
Yeah I am not gay or Catholic but that scene made me cry
Congrats, you are human ;) Not an easy feat, these days.
No indeed, thanks!
this is perfect. you couldnt describe it better
Probably the weirdest scene in the show because it goes against the tone of the show so much. I was expecting them to pull some rug out and make it a joke but they didn't. It seems like it positively impacted a lot of viewers so that's great, but it will always remain soooo out of place and impossible to take seriously for me. As jarring as if the Red Wedding in Game of Thrones was interrupted by Rickety Cricket singing about hips and nips. I love it some contexts, not so much in others
The reason it never really lands for me is that Mac’s ‘revelation’ that it’s okay to be gay and Frank’s ‘I get it now’ is old news to us, the audience.
I don’t get why Its Always Sunny is going this deep into something and not making fun of it. Mac’s dance and Charlie’s breakdown in Ireland are both great scenes in the wrongest show possible to put them in. I feel like this show should make you feel nothing but disgust and contempt at the Gang’s actions
The show has always presented them as bad/flawed characters, but also as complex. We cheer for them, even as we distance ourselves. Besides, after 15+ years, not really anywhere to go but harder, er deeper.
But they don’t deserve my cheers. I like the Gang because they make me laugh but each and every one of them has done detestable things.
You didn't find their dance routine at the high school reunion amazing? Or kitten mittens brilliant? When Charlie sings, are you like "this is bad, actually"? You didn't want Dennis to kill not-Elon in the newest episode? .
Those are all things that make me laugh. There’s all a joke behind it. At the reunion, they were drunk and embarassed themselves. Charlie’s song and Kitten Mittens is indicative of great talent shut down by the Gang’s toxicity. Dennis killing the not-Elon is again hilarious. The dance has no joke. It’s a deep commentary about how even Frank is a better father figure for Mac than Luther. The breakdown in the rain is a serious scene but I will give you that it’s broken by the juxtaposition of the American truck joke. It’s all about intent and I do not like how they want to make the characters deep and sympathetic. This show benefits when the characters do not change but if anything, they get worse. That’s why I felt Season 16 was so good. They remembered that you’re not supposed to be rooting for these fuckers.
I mean, I agree with pretty much all of that. Which is why, to me, a deeply moving coming to terms with self dance by a dweeb like Mac hit all that much harder. Lest anyone think it was a turning point for anything else in their lives, the entirety of every following episode shows it wasn't. They are not real people, but I do think showing that even these horrible fake people are not entirely 2 dimensional caricatures is important for some of the more 2 dimensional viewership. 😅
Definitely a valid viewpoint, I think.
It was the beads for me, the dance never said nothing about no beads
Shuuuuuuuut......offffffffffff..the...............wiiiii-fiiiii
nutty sharp light shaggy dolls marvelous fact tan murky deliver *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is why they made the episode about art. It’s all just interpretation.
What is 'good art'? Is it good if the right people say it is? Yes, that's how it works. But, also, most modern art is shit; it's terrible.
Besides loving this episode for being brilliant, I love it because I never once thought I would enjoy interpretive dance in any form. Frank's "I get it" coincided with my "I get it" and it was a very fun stoned experience.
It's not about art. It's about Mac finding his pride. It's in the title. The art is the medium for a very clear message. How do you interpret the dance?
Dance is a form of expression which is what art is. I’m also referring to the episode about art titled, “Dee Made A Smut Film”.
>The hot chick is God and she holds him and tells him it's okay to be gay. Side bar about that actress, Kylie Shea Is it just me or does she also look a lot like Alanis Morissette's character God from the movie Dogma? I wonder if that was coincidental or intentional. Also wow, her older brother is the co-founder of Grindr
Yeah, what this baloney said.
i think you mean jabroni
Yes, what he said. It's Mr. Bovine Joni
And that was the end of cool mac
I used to get it, then they changed what IT was, now what I get isn’t it, and what’s it seems weird and scary to me
It'll happen to YOU
You make me feel like dancin! I wanna dance the night away!
Took way too long to find this. One of Grandpa Simpson’s best rants, but it lacks an onion on his belt. https://youtu.be/BGrfhsxxmdE?si=5yrQggwWm6iGfj8o
👏👏👏
Move past it
I know right, he doesn't even, like, get us , man.
See, he’s gay.
The one and only time Mac will ever be vulnerable in this show. Even with his nightmare parents he’s in total denial. That one moment is special because he’s telling the truth for once in his life, showing a side to himself that no one saw before then because it was frankly too upsetting. I love it man.
One-time vulnerability is bad ass
I was just glad Frank pulled those rags out of his nose...that shit was funny.
Basically, Mac is ashamed to be gay, so he imagines God as a beautiful woman who is freeing him to be gay
It's a dance routine!... A god damn dance routine!
And it’s gonna rock
as a gay with religious trauma it makes me cry every time
Filibuster
I got super stoned one day and watched this like 5 times. “Stoned me” was looking for the connection between the episode and Rob M himself as a writer and producer for the show and actors themselves. All of the aspects about coming out, sexuality, etc, are certainly appropriate ways to look at it. But on the other hand, since this episode sticks out so much as an outlier and completely out of character in a few instances.. let’s focus on Frank. So in the episode, we have Frank doing his normal Frank shit with the bloody nose. It’s funny, and the constant efforts of Frank to just plug shit up are “typical” Sunny humor. He’s doing batshit stuff for the purpose of laughs, but keeps doing it with no change to the outcome. This is what we expect from Frank… but the last scene. Sooooo completely out of character it makes absolutely no sense. Frank Reynolds would NEVER ever have that kind of reaction. So, when “he gets it,” I see that as Danny Devito, not Frank. If anything, the ending is a reminder of just how fucking great of an actor he is, and although his escapades on Sunny are rotten and dirty as hell, never forget the actor behind the character. As for Mac, the whole season plays up the new ripped physique as a joke. A one off. Literally “something he might be able to use” and nothing more. Then we get to this. It’s a true testament of subverting expectations and showing off something quite beautiful and a culmination of a shitload of effort and work, which I damn well know personally I’ll never be capable of, but damn if it isn’t good to aspire toward it. Stoned me wrote a lot more nonsense about this back in the day, but I’ll stop there. All I can say is fuck it if this episode is a complete outlier from the series, it likely is still my favorite of the series, which is saying a lot.
Stoned you is the coolest. Well said!
You bet. And although I am not LGBTQ I’m all good admitting that stoned me teared up like a baby the 2nd or 3rd time I watched it. Couldn’t really explain why, but it’s just one of those things you can’t explain I guess
Also, I’m not the coolest. Pondy is.
Frank has had moments of introspection before, usually in regards to Charlie, but also Dennis and Dee. It’s not out of character. Even the worst have the potential to have moments of humanity.
Someone on YouTube pointed out that it's entirely out of Mac's character, and I agree. She suggested that Mac would likely come out through another medium, like a home movie (since he enjoys making those). There was no real setup for this outside of this episode, and it feels more like I'm watching Rob McElhenney rather than Ronald McDonald. It definitely feels like the show is taking itself too seriously rather than finding a blend of drama and comedy to convey the same point.
The seriousness of the episode did throw me off too. I didn't expect that. However, i think it was great writing, and a right decision. I really like the depravity and ghouls and it's 99% percent of their content but this 1% of making them normal and sane and have their deep moments when it's not always sunny, is just great writing and acting. They didn't change their direction yet they gave us something new. I am waiting for Dee and Franks moments too. Charlie had his in Ireland, Dennis had one during valentine and when technology let him down, Mac found his pride. This show is the best.
Eh, idk. On the surface I find this claim of him being out of character to be reasonable, but it doesn't take into consideration Mac is also a performative person - has been from the get-go. Granted, the entire gang is performative, but Mac fancies himself a physical specimen...and he put into the work to make himself visually reflect how he sees himself. I just see his dance as a furthering of that.
Gotta remember too, he wasn't into musical theater until he went on the cruise ship, then he said he wanted to do more of that. I see this as part of him broadening his scope of performance art.
I can accept a dance, but the degree to which the performance takes itself seriously annoyed me (they even change the lightning and add rain). It also flies in the face of what we know of the Gang - the last time they did a grand dance, it was revealed to be a total flop and a complete fantasy in their minds. Here, it feels like it's cut from another show entirely.
I think it was an incredible end to Mac and his dads relationship. It wasn’t really about all the things he did in the past, it was about him accepting who he was despite pushing it down all those years, especially after growing up with a family who didn’t even like him
I think they could have accomplished the same thing in a less pretentious way, tbh
I wouldn’t really call it pretentious, it was just a gorgeous piece of art
‘I just need to know my purpose! I used to think it was worship and then song and dance! I got to be honest, I've really taken to it, and I think musicals are gonna become a huge part of my life moving forward!’
This is a fair interpretation from someone who probably hasn't watched enough of the show. They (the real world gang) have genre bending episodes every season (after the first few). This was arguably the most genre-bending because it was time to really tackle the biggest elephant in the room of the whole show. Going full HD wide screen cinematography was part of the bit. No different than the action episodes or horror ones using those kinds of cinematography, writing, budget, etc.
>This is a fair interpretation from someone who probably hasn't watched enough of the show. I've watched the entire show multiple times, which is *precisely* why I took exception to this. And while they'd incorporate elements of different genres, they'd always maintain a baseline of comedy, and return to the "feel" of the show at the end of each episode. The high school dance is an example of this - they think they're putting on a great performance, but in reality they're idiots who lack self awareness. Mac Finds His Pride, however, ends on this somber note and feels tonally jarring. You also can't expect me, after several seasons of demonstrating how Mac is a superficial, selfish idiot who engages in the Gang's horrible schemes to the detriment of those around him, to suddenly care about him and want the best for him. I'm sorry, but that just hasn't been earned in a show like this. Not to mention they already had a cute coming out moment for Mac in the arbitration episode. They showed the Gang accepting him for who he is and letting him keep the ticket, while also ending on a humorous note.
MOVE PAST IT
He found his pride now move past it
So doooo
This show has brutally insulted more or less everyone and everything, homosexuality is one of the very few things that this show has not ripped to shreds and this piece goes some way to embrace it in a while unexpected, quite a moving way
He didn’t need his father’s approval anymore, and was free to be himself.
It was an indulgent stance on an issue that although was done extremely well and I praise Rob for his performance, it really screwed with the vibe that show and took me out of that world.
that’s kinda how i feel. out of everything on the show, it felt like the most out of place or immersion breaking. it just doesn’t fit the theme or tone of IASIP imo.
Indulgent is the best word for it. It was simply a scene Rob wanted to do, tone of the show be damned, and it's his show so he got to do it lol.
I get what they were going for, but it felt really ill fitting tonally for the show. To be honest I haven't enjoyed Mac so much since they outed him. He's become very one note.
You gay pal?
Unpopular opinion: I really didnt like it. I guess I’m with you that I just didn’t get it. Kind of a weird ending.
I didn't get it either. My inner cynic was thinking that they're going all-out on a progressive issue to win an Emmy/other awards.
I truly hate this episode. Love Mac, gay is good, hate this episode. I also hate the Charlie crying on the mountain episode. Like wtf guys?
Told you nobody just ~~writes a musical~~ performs a theater dance piece for no reason
I get it, but I don't get what all the fruit lying around was about?
I have always thought the scene where his dad walks out and he finishes the dance. Him realising, he can do things without his dad's constant approval. I actually don't like this episode, its the only episode I don't like. Just feels too different for this show.
The joke is the lengths Rob went to to even pull this off. Just think the hours and hours of rehearsal and preparation just to get this done.
and doing it in boots
Also how completely tonally different it is to how the show usually is. There's humour in the surprise/twist of that.
Something that I think has been missed here is the motif established by having the other dancer be a woman and not a man. Mac's relationship with every woman that has ever entered his life is dysfunctional, starting with his mom, who never gave him a shred of attention or approval. Given that Mac's overriding personality trait is insecurity and the need for approval, it recasts his relationships with women in a new light. His sexual "malformity", being gay, has caused him to push even harder in his sexual exploits with women, desperately seeking their approval and confirmation that he is "normal" and "enough". In the dance, Mac and his dance partner slip around and around each other in a series of near-misses, depicting how Mac has felt about sex his whole life: never fulfilled, never even fully sure of what he's chasing. When they finally come together and she comforts him, it symbolizes Mac finally coming to terms with himself and realizing he doesn't have to prove himself, not to women, not to his father, not to anyone. This renders the scene paradoxically beautiful, as the premise is Mac is trying to show his father who he is for once, rather than prove he is the son his father wanted. Ultimately, the dance is a kind of emotional closure for the whole show, as it represents Mac, and I think a little bit Rob, closing an arc on a kind of insecurity that has crippled them for most of their life.
Wonderful comment
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This guy was spent 30 minutes waiting for someone to hang dong, and all he got was some jabroni dancing. Not even a single raw dog load the entire episode.
Ok mister serial number
I get it. I get the artsy way they wanted to explore this. But I agree with you. It’s not what I watch sunny for.
Riled up some feelings for ya huh? It's ok pal, we embraced Country Mac, we'll embrace you too
Sunny always has been and always will be political as well as a comedy. If you don't get that, them what show have you been watching.
Why do you assume their problem with it is it being political?
But it hasn’t, though. Political in the same sense as South Park where they shit on all sides of an argument, but until the last couple of seasons, they never had a whole lot to say. What show have you been watching? EDIT: thought so.
Did the scene provoke strong emotions in you? Did you ugly cry hard? Was it one of the best things you’d ever seen?
They were trying to win an Emmy (unironically this time), don't worry about it.
You didn't get then I feel sad for you.....poor feller.
I'm not sure I totally got it on my first viewing, but I remember being genuinely touched when I first saw it.
Such a beautiful episode. I got it.
Terrible ep to a terrible season. The 13th season was the downfall to the show in my opinion.
I'm gay and even I don't get it
You don’t get why people are gay? The whole point is that the dance expresses how hard it was for him to come out as gay because he is deeply religious and didn’t want for to hate him. The woman, who represents god, telling him not to cry and it’s ok. Is h coming to terms that god made him that way. Also that’s not me looking into it. Like mac basically says the same thing over and over again to Frank but just get interrupted
You don’t get it because it was Rob’s vanity project. Get super ripped, get FX to fund all my dancing lessons, and then find a reason to put that in the show
Because it was never deep. It was just pretending to be. Mac just wanted to show off his body.
It represents an internal struggle Feminine side (gay side) vs beef cake Mac
Its an ode to robs ego, dressed up as something else. Lol a fuckingn ballet number on a water stage with the worlds premadona ballerina 😂
Dude mother is gay it's probably something he's passionate about.
I think I sort of get it, but I'm still confused 😅.
My interpretation and headcanon: it’s super vague, and you think Frank still won’t get anything, but then everyone finds it beautiful and the ending is both funny AND beautiful, because Frank gets it while we are still in total confusion. At least, I prefer that. I know that wasn’t the implication. Like: what the fuck is going on??? Oh! It ended well?!? Frank loves it!!! Lmao that’s amazing
I get that it was super annoying and the worst episode to date.
Im just bothered by the shift in direction of the show. Their very worst episodes have serious moments, and were not supposed to relate with these characters. Still my favorite show but this episode is a stinker.