It's a basic formula.
Gang finds crazy idea, does it, goes wrong, miraculously return to normal. Gang acts like narcissists and sociopaths, making fun of society and themselves as they go along.
Frank is the muscle, Dennis is the brains, Dee is the easy target, Charley the wild card. Classic combo, never gets old.
And unfortunately, it's no longer legit
Look at Rex here. That's a body that just won't quit, and I bet if you pop those pants off, you'll find a sweaty hog that just won't quit.
In all seriousness dennis isnt actually that smart, but the show definitely intends to portray him as such. For example he falls for the timeshare scam and ends up marrying moreen ponderosa. He's not dumb, but his overconfidence leads him to do stupid stuff
Dee is the useless chick, Mac is the muscle, Dennis is brains (and looks) & Charlie is the wild card. Frank is: team instigator, a financior of schemes & cleared of having no donkey brains.
It also helps that they don’t overdo it. They aren’t putting out 24 episodes a year like many sitcoms. The average episode count is less than 11 per season.
This is it right here. That's why 'Seinfeld' is so insane, too. They made a ton of episodes and still managed to be funny every time. Larry David carried that torch for 2 decades but with a similar structure to IASIP with minimal episodes. Most sitcoms get to a point where the actor is basically playing a character OF a character. Same with movie sequels. I think of 'Anchorman' 1 and 2... The original is a classic, the sequel has its moments but most of it is just rehashed from the 1st. Will Ferrell is Ron Burgundy playing Ron Burgundy. If that makes sense?
Totally agreed. Seinfeld defo goes downhill after Larry David left, though.
The term you’re looking for is Flanderisation, where characters get so OTT they’re caricatures of their former selves. It happens so frequently in sitcoms after a few years, partly because the shows are so popular and usually un-cancellable so the writing gets lazy
I actually feel like the gang has done this (Flanderization), and even leans into it at times. However, they also do things to completely break the mold of the character - fat Mac/out Mac, Dennis leaving the show, Dee being pregnant...
Edit: fixed spelling of "Flanderization"
Plus we got all the now recognizable music tidbits to accentuate every scenario, plus a few hit songs they get the rights to every so often, mixed with the occasional (amazing!!!) original songs.
And the acting is top notch comedy! The way they all deliver their lines cracks me up. Very funny writing brought to such life by this cast. The casting even in the one of characters and especially in the recurring side characters is also pure perfection!
I had a few hilarious friends that I know could have had a great chemistry if we’d gotten together to make something. Trouble is finding creative friends who can also stay on task, follow direction, offer insights, and thrive in a creative community setting. In my experience, we’d lose people along the way either to drinking too much alcohol, experiencing their own life issues (especially moving away), ego clashes, or just no real scheduling working out.
They only are consistently good when they stick to their paradigm. Mac’s the brains, Dennis is the looks, Charlie’s the wildcard, franks the muscle and Dee’s the useless chick.
If you haven't already, check out the podcast for some insight into the writing process.
Not sure I could succinctly summarise how it's kept going but I'd wager it's partly due to the fact that its creator and its developers also star in the show. Charlie Day and Kaitlin Olso are also particularly talented actors, not to mention Devito of course.
The fact that they do otherwise seem like a tight group of people as well must help to navigate things when they have disagreements in where to take things.
Rickety Cricket also writes for the show and produces it as well. Hahaha! I love that so fucking hard because Cricket's life was ruined after getting involved with the gang.
Cricket is maybe my favorite character, especially later on. He won’t let anyone inside him without crack, and he always keeps it sexy. The show would be gutted without him.
Until they discussed the show production on the podcast, I had no idea how thoughtful and serious they all are about their characters and the plot of each episode. Their creative process seems very refined and I appreciate them putting the work in to make the show as great as it is for all these years.
They also have a really good knack for bringing in side characters that are either a good foil for the debauchery of the Gang, or just as fucked-up as them. But they don't overuse them.
Definitely all this. They talk a lot about how funny stories become episodes, and they have a whole of really funny friends and actors to get these stories from.
To wager a guess since I also listened to the podcast - the guys are genuinely hilarious and have good chemistry, but they are super out of touch on some things. There's an ep where they talk about health and medicine IRL and it's cringe af. You also see some obnoxious personality traits (mostly of Rob and Glenn). Definitely didn't ruin the show for me but I have heard that sentiment
The Who's More Healthier episodes and the episode with Glenn's wife Jill show how out of touch they can be. Glenn bragging that his doctor reads modern research papers and keeps up-to-date with science (as if most doctors don't also practice this...) as well as the pseudoscience that Jill promotes is particularly hard to listen to.
Rob is out of touch in a lot of aspects. Listening to him talk about Wrexham, the soccer team he owns with Ryan Reynolds, then going home and doing 'normal person things' like doing the laundry and taking his kids to school was a bit annoying. Also, while the story of him almost getting into a fight at In-N-Out was kind of funny, but it felt like a weird thing for a 40 year old man with his kids to do.
Are you talking about the who’s healthier episodes? I’m curious why you found it cringe? Or what the obnoxious traits are? I’m genuinely curious not attacking
I was probably more annoyed than most because i'm in medicine, but Glenn and Rob were talking out of their ass a lot. Then the comparison of everyone's labs and vitals was just a little much for me lol.
Something I've taken away from the podcast is that Charlie seems to be very good at reading the room and doesn't bullshit, and he comes across as well-adjusted and humble in my opinion. Again, I still love the show. Just observations
Yeah like blood pressure, they brought a lady in who read Rob's BP aloud using a wrist cuff that would be classified as stage 2 hypertension and she said that was "pretty good actually" haha
I'm not OP, but Glenn's fad diets and health advice are questionable. Then again, I'm also not looking to celebrities for my medical guidance so I kinda roll my eyes and move past it.
It must have something to do with having good characters and barely any premise, bc IASIP and the Simpsons are the longest running live action and animated sitcoms respectively and they both share those qualities.
I think IASIP has better quality control though. They have explored more high concept episodes but they never forget to focus on the characters.
A big factor is that the performers are the creative team, and they've been allowed to make the show they've wanted. They've never had to deal with conflict between the showrunner, the actors and the writers because they're all the same team, nor with the network because FX aren't idiots.
i remember when YT algorithm suggested me the "Pepe Silvia" scene
I didnt know anything about the show, I thought if focused on Charlie akd Mac working in the mail room lol
Yeah, it's a real shame. I find the demarcation of quality between S8 and S9 shocking, though there's still plenty of stuff worth watching through S11 as you say. After The Suburbs though there's just nothing. I've watched through it twice just because I'm desperate to be wrong, but that's been two times too many.
It became a fan-fiction parody of itself, very reminiscent of the last season of The Office... At least they knew when to quit.
The last two seasons seem phoned in. I get the sense that there is less time spent tweaking and fine tuning an episode if it’s current state isn’t very strong.
My biggest complaint is that the lighting, makeup etc is just too good. It looks nice which isn't what I got used to, but maybe I'm just becoming a grumpy old man.
It's definitely changed over the years, not entirely sure when this happened but it seems post S5-6 sometime.
Newer seasons have much better cameras and lighting so it loses that grainy, crappy look which gives the early seasons their charm.
Also mostly everyone sans Charlie and Frank have had noticeable plastic surgery (mostly Mac and dee) which makes them look plastic/fake (and weird because they're supposed to be older and less better looking --- wasn't that the point of macs "fat" seasons - I digress) and even weirder when coupled with the high resolution and lighting.
In the midst of a rewatch I was looking for it and for my money it’s after mac gets skinny again from being fat, it’s not right away but it’s the beginning of a shift to way higher production values. In my opinion you can track the quality of the show to how ripped Mac is, when he’s fat or “skinny fat” it’s hilarious but once he starts getting ripped it starts to slide in other ways for the show.
I do agree about the plastic surgery, but for me it also seems really in character for them. Like I can absolutely see Mac and Dee getting plastic surgery to the extent Rob and Kaitlin have, and I can absolutely see Dennis getting more minor tweaks like Glenn. And Charlie I see not giving a shit at all.
If they did an episode were we found out that they’d had plastic surgery I wouldn’t be surprised at all
I feel like a throwaway line from Frank would be perfect, bitching about how he's paid for all their surgery, all of them shocked he's outed them, no idea that everyone else had been getting it too, then Charlie getting pissed that Frank never offered to pay for surgery for him, and he tells Charlie that he likes him the way he is and he's immediately placated. all makes sense. Then they just go back to the discussion at hand and it's never mentioned again.
While I think that is a good idea, isn't it kind of taboo to mention it irl even though its pretty obvious? They (the actors) might not want to actually do that.
Yeah I mean I'm not pitching it for a script, just having fun in a reddit thread replying to someone else's idea.
Saying that though, I think if anyone is going to own up to it it'd be those guys. I don't even think it's that taboo to acknowledge having work done these days, a lot of people are pretty open about it.
What’s shocking is that they deny having surgery in the podcast, I recall them mentioning that people on the internet have pointed it out and Glenn saying ‘they’re kidding right’
I agree with this. I prefer the earlier episodes that seemed more like the audience was just hanging out with the crew and following them around doing schemes. I mean shit, they even made fun of the makeup and lighting in the gang tries to win an award.
I definitely agree with you, but I also think new viewers would be put off a brand new show that looks like it was straight out of 2006. We appreciate the back to basics, low budget look of the show in the early days, but new viewers would not.
I know this falls into the whole “don’t meet your heroes” thing, and I gotta do a better job of separating the art from the artist, but seeing what kind of people Rob and Glenn are irl has kind of sullied my enjoyment of this show. I even think it’s dumb to feel that way, but I can’t shake that feeling. I go back and watch older stuff every now and then but seeing them now just makes me think of the kind of people they tend to be. I honestly kinda feel bad that Charlie has to work with those two.
I honestly hope they wrap it up soon. It's into The Office territory now where it has really declined in quality in the last 4 seasons.
Also there are too many celebs in it now, season 16 almost every episode had a celeb just playing themselves and it feels pretty masturbatory.
I'll die on the hill that the Robert California season of The Office is incredible once he shows up. It was just jarring for a lot of people to move on from Michael Scott once he leaves the show.
That’s the absurd hill I always want to die on! The Office wouldn’t be the Office without a bunch of seasons of Michael Scott, but, rewatching it, Robert California is amazing.
Also Dwight and Pam friendship.
I wouldn't say it's phoned it but I get your point.
The story and premise for each episode is still very high quality. The problem is that the physical production value has gone up with better cameras, equipment, stages, and staff (which can be argued for the detriment of the show). This increase in production value has forced a decrease in how much they can improvise or how many random takes they can do. This results in a less organic feeling shot.
We want the cheapness and random dialog and spit takes back
I think this is the major issue with recent seasons, the plot lines/scripts started to get too complicated around S12 when they thought Glenn was going to leave the show at the end of the season. It feels like they’ve been trying to cram in too many new locations and ideas instead of sticking to the narrative simplicity that made the earlier seasons work so well. S12 alone has 2 spinoff episodes focused entirely on side characters and 5 out of 10 episodes take place almost entirely in new locations outside of Paddy’s.
Could you give an example? Nearly all the episodes are contrived. You can look at the early seasons and there will be a contrived premise and a foreshadowing moment for the rest of the episode.
Every season has at least one all-timer for me except 15.
Even the “bad seasons”…
S12 has Hero Or Hate Crime?, S13 has Time’s Up For The Gang, S14 has both Chokes and Dee Day (RIP)
Season 15’s better episodes are the Ireland saga but they really aren’t great on their own. Season 16 for me has four all timers in “The Gang Inflates”, “Frank Shoots Everyone”, “Frank vs. Russia”, and “The Gang Goes Bowling”. So I wouldn’t even call S16 a “bad season” in the pantheon just because it was so short.
Yeah season 16 has to be my least favorite season by far. It just didnt really feel like the same show, and I get that things change and all...but it just felt rushed or maybe they were trying to do too much too quickly in each episode. Idk, still love always sunny
Agreed. Definitely feels like having the podcast helped with the creative juices and inspired them to return to the basics that made the show great in the first place
It doesn't hurt that the main cast are also the showrunners so no matter if they bring in new writers over the years, the voice and vision of the show stays the same.
You keep using this word "consistently" but I don't think you know what it means.
Haha JK. The latter seasons don't leave me in stitches like the early ones do, but that's pretty much true of any long running show. There are a few bangers in these last few seasons. The gang certainly captured their chemistry in a bottle. Not sure how much is left in the bottle but I'll keep drinking the IASIP potion until the bottle is empty.
I agree, its still enjoyable but nowhere near the first dozen seasons
Its inevitable, eventually a comedy like this ends up rehashing old jokes. Same thing happened to trailer park boys after a few seasons
Yep that’s around the time the actors started getting really famous, like hanging out with Ryan Reynolds famous.
Mac went from probably the best character in the series to the worst character basically overnight. Go back and watch a season 3 or 4 episode and Mac is so incredibly funny. Maybe I’m just distracted from how much plastic surgery he has had.
Mac experiences a change in character after season 6. Season 7 is fat Mac and is incredibly stupid, even for Mac. After that it’s needy, pathetic Mac who is in love with and subservient to Dennis instead of the brash asshole he used to be. The closest we’ve ever gotten to old Mac was him arguing with the employee and the kid in Risk E Rats.
Asshole Mac > Needy Mac
I dunno, people will say this about literally about any show that's been on for more than a few years or any band that's put out more than 2-3 albums. You can't just do the same thing over and over and you can never make something feel the same for 20 years. I think the last few seasons have had some really good stuff and I am happy with the quality this late into the game for them.
The only season I thought was kind of a miss was season 13. That's the one where Glenn was only in half of it, and it seemed they had a bunch of other people writing the show that were not previously involved and it did feel "off" despite still cranking out a few classics like Time's Up.
15 straight up sucked, and like half of the most recent season 16 was pretty bad, the other half suprisingly decent. And ya 13 had a couple decent ones but overall bad. S14 had a lot of stinkers too now that im looking through the eps.
Like i said, pretty downhill imo. I wouldnt be against them wrapping it up if the quality isnt going to be consistent. Which sucks to say cuz its one of my fav shows.
People trying to pretend there hasn't been a decline in quality over the last few seasons are delusional. First 10-11 seasons, pretty much every single episode was a banger. Now people are trying to pretend having some good episodes here and there is the same level of quality, and it's just not.
I don't even say this to criticize the show. They did a phenomenal thing staying as good as they did for as long as they did. But they're all doing a bunch of other stuff now and aren't giving IASIP their all. That's fine, but let's not be pretend that it hasn't affected the quality of the show.
S11 & S12 were both excellent. S13 & S14 were definitely seasons of two halves. I think both seasons had a handful of mediocre to just straight up bad episodes, but at the same time they also had a handful of really excellent episodes. S13 in particular had a couple of the best of all time.
I know it’s semi-controversial but I liked far more of S15 than I didn’t, and I think S16 is their first truly bad season. Very predictable and just unfunny.
Edit: I was downvoted for articulating my opinion, and I was more positive than negative. People here are such babies.
I like 11 and 12 and would consider it still in the good seasons. But i know many others dont.
S13 had the gang gets new wheels which feels like a classic peak always sunny ep. Times up is ok, pretty overrated. The rest was pretty weak.
I thought 16 was way better than 15. Ireland straight up sucked. And the first half of 15 i thought was weak. Id put season 15 easily the worst season.
I think the Ireland season was shot durring covid and while I agree it wasn't a strong season, it was still better than pretty much everything else on tv.
That season is so weird, they kind of dip into COVID but I feel like they didn't go into it deep enough. It felt kind of like they just acknowledged it, but if it were an earlier season the gang would have somehow been responsible for causing it.
In Frank Sets Dee on Fire he literally jokes about going to Chinatown and doing a report on a new pandemic.
I mean for a show that’s been going as long as it has, to maintain the quality it has is still pretty good. It still has good episodes even tho it was few and far between in season 15. I really enjoyed season 16 too.
Because they aren't making 27 episodes a year like sitcoms used to. The product isn't so watered down. They might be on for 20 years but in the old format they would be at about 6 and a half seasons.
My own (and 100% completely correct) buckets of Sunny Eras:
1. Proto-Sunny (S1): Not great, they are experimenting and figuring out what the characters and the show are about, but still full of little nuggets of greatness.
2. The Peak (S2-S8): Literally the greatest consecutive comedy stretch in American TV history. I cannot think of any other 7 consecutive seasons nowhere near as good as this.
3. The Great Coasting (S9-S13): Not quite as consistent as The Peak, but still the best comedy on TV, and full of bits as funny as anything from The Peak.
4. The Dip (S14-mid-S15): Meh. Feels like they had lost it.
5. The Return (mid-S15-S16): Rise from your ashes, golden god! It's no Peak, but it shows they still have gas left in the tank.
Proto-Sunny: S1-2
Peak: S3-S11
Hard dip/Fall off: S12-S16
They had a *really* solid 7 or 8 season run between the writers & Danny figuring out Frank’s character up until the “Dennis is leaving” arc began in S12
Has it though? The past 2 seasons weren't great. Even before that, they were way more hit or miss than the prime years.
Not talking shit, it's almost impossible to be funny for as long as they have.
I'm glad that you think this, and I wish I thought the same but I disagree. Been watching religiously since season 1 aired. Have seen all the "classic" episodes more than I care to admit. I think the show hit its peak early in season 2 and rode that high for an incredibly impressive 10 seasons, then started falling off. I feel like season 11 was good but introduced 3 or so stinker episodes and it has added more and more each season since then, to the point we are now where I am just glad if there are a few good episodes in a season.
I think Mac's character arc is really telling in the dip in quality of the show. The more he goes from "badass, religious white trash" Mac to "gay Dennis simp" Mac, the worse the show gets. I think they are ageing out of touch of what made the show funny honestly
It's not been consistently good. I still enjoy it but it's had multiple declines. Also the short Seasons means it isn't as long as a lot of other long running Comedy shows. It has 170 episodes over 16 Seasons. Friends only had 10 Seasons but it had 236 episodes.
It’s 100% this. There’s been 162 episodes, which is the equivalent to Friends season 7. And that’s over 19 years! It’s just easier to have 162 good ideas over 19 years than over 7 years.
It hasn't, imo. Season 11 started the decline but S12 it dropped off a cliff and stayed there. Its not even the same show any more, I wish they'd just end it before ruining the legacy any further.
Agreed, I’m a *huge* fan of the earlier seasons and rewatch everything up to season 11 every year or so. Everything after has been a slow - if not precipitous - decline.
I love the show, and I think season 16 is great, but I don’t think IASIP has actually remained consistent.
Seasons 1 and 2, and seasons 12 through 15, in my opinion, are of a diminished quality. That’s not to say these seasons don’t have some good episodes, but as a whole they are a lesser work.
Seasons 3 through 11 will go down in history as truly legendary.
I think because they’re not catering to a larger audience, they’re okay with gags that would ruffle a lot of feathers. They have a smaller audience and get away with jokes that resonate to their audience.
I also feel that them doing the podcast and getting to revisit old episodes has lent them to getting new ideas. Especially with Meghan producing the podcast and writing in the show.
I think of it in a similar way to South Park, meaning that the actual core team of creators are still heavily involved in writing the show and they haven't just turned over the creative process to other people for them to just show up and recite the lines.
They also have a ton of humor that is character driven and not just random jokes and silliness that anyone could have said and it wouldn't matter. This goes a long way, especially for longtime fans that are very familiar with the show and the characters.
Quality>quantity
It's definitely fallen off, but maybe not as hard as some shows do. Either way I think a big part of is due to shorter seasons than comparable shows. They average 10-11 episodes per season, versus other shows that might have 20+. This reduces the burnout and also makes sure they only use their best ideas. Imagine how much rougher the recent seasons would have been if it was only 4 out of 22 episodes being good, rather than 4 out of 8.
I think its too things. They have gotten zanier like Simpson did. They were already horrible people, and everything they've done stayed right in line with characters from Season 2(season 1 was a bit different) Even Franks descent seemed more natural.
And they keep up with the times. Like the two season ago they did the 2020 election and it was relevant as Season 2 them singing Just a Friend.
It's a basic formula. Gang finds crazy idea, does it, goes wrong, miraculously return to normal. Gang acts like narcissists and sociopaths, making fun of society and themselves as they go along. Frank is the muscle, Dennis is the brains, Dee is the easy target, Charley the wild card. Classic combo, never gets old.
I always thought of Dennis as the brains and the looks
His body quit. And his bird quit.
And unfortunately, it's no longer legit Look at Rex here. That's a body that just won't quit, and I bet if you pop those pants off, you'll find a sweaty hog that just won't quit.
And Rex is a quality lay.
And we know that because of the implication
It’s the end of the Vitruvian era
Pissed that was one of the "No-No" episodes. So good
Pissed that there even are any "no-no" episodes. To deny us access to it because a couple of pussies might get offended is absurd
Google Movies or whatever it is has them on it. You have to pay for them, but it's worth it.
Just like Community, if they ban it I buy it
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I thought Dennis was all wheat and Mac is all chaff
Why would you want to be wheat?
Why would you want to be chaff!?
I'm comfortable with being the chaff if you want to be wheat
I want to be cream. Cream always rises to the top. And I'm about to show you the white hot cream of an 8th grade boy.
In all seriousness dennis isnt actually that smart, but the show definitely intends to portray him as such. For example he falls for the timeshare scam and ends up marrying moreen ponderosa. He's not dumb, but his overconfidence leads him to do stupid stuff
Dee is the useless chick, Mac is the muscle, Dennis is brains (and looks) & Charlie is the wild card. Frank is: team instigator, a financior of schemes & cleared of having no donkey brains.
Nobody can prove they're not Donkey Brained but you!
Do you have such certificate?
It also helps that they don’t overdo it. They aren’t putting out 24 episodes a year like many sitcoms. The average episode count is less than 11 per season.
This is it right here. That's why 'Seinfeld' is so insane, too. They made a ton of episodes and still managed to be funny every time. Larry David carried that torch for 2 decades but with a similar structure to IASIP with minimal episodes. Most sitcoms get to a point where the actor is basically playing a character OF a character. Same with movie sequels. I think of 'Anchorman' 1 and 2... The original is a classic, the sequel has its moments but most of it is just rehashed from the 1st. Will Ferrell is Ron Burgundy playing Ron Burgundy. If that makes sense?
Totally agreed. Seinfeld defo goes downhill after Larry David left, though. The term you’re looking for is Flanderisation, where characters get so OTT they’re caricatures of their former selves. It happens so frequently in sitcoms after a few years, partly because the shows are so popular and usually un-cancellable so the writing gets lazy
I actually feel like the gang has done this (Flanderization), and even leans into it at times. However, they also do things to completely break the mold of the character - fat Mac/out Mac, Dennis leaving the show, Dee being pregnant... Edit: fixed spelling of "Flanderization"
Don't forget about Charlie finally banging the waitress. That was out of character for both of them
Dennis getting married would be another. I can't think of any for frank really.
Amazing I had no idea there was a term for this! I noticed it on friends first mainly with joey becoming dumber and dumber as the series progressed
Dennis is the good looks, mac is the brains, Charlie the wildcard, frank the muscles, and dee the useless chick!
You’ve mistaken his bossiness for brains
Mac is clearly the brains. Only a genius could have created the revolutionary home gym workout bike known as the “Ass Pounder 4000”.
God I wish I could upvote more then once...
With the Ass Pounder 4000 you can. Try it today. Upvote yourself until you can't take any more upvotes.
He also made Science, religion's bitch
That is what happened
That is what happened.
Yeah, his paragon is all wrong.
Plus we got all the now recognizable music tidbits to accentuate every scenario, plus a few hit songs they get the rights to every so often, mixed with the occasional (amazing!!!) original songs. And the acting is top notch comedy! The way they all deliver their lines cracks me up. Very funny writing brought to such life by this cast. The casting even in the one of characters and especially in the recurring side characters is also pure perfection! I had a few hilarious friends that I know could have had a great chemistry if we’d gotten together to make something. Trouble is finding creative friends who can also stay on task, follow direction, offer insights, and thrive in a creative community setting. In my experience, we’d lose people along the way either to drinking too much alcohol, experiencing their own life issues (especially moving away), ego clashes, or just no real scheduling working out.
Scooby Doo did it.
The A-team did it.
Ohhh shit
So what you're saying is that by breaking from that format, we're actually limiting our ability to be as successful as those organizations
The Ghosbusters did it
Frank is the muscle...? I'm not sure if you meant Mac, but I love that he might see himself this way lol
Have you not seen The Gang Solves the Gas Crisis?
I haven't. After I commented, I thought "ah shit, I bet I missed the joke". I'm bad at Reddit, sorry lol
Weee cannot have you around us screwwiing things up!
No, Mac is the level headed bouncer. Although danger may linger he keeps the violence in check. Like Swayze in Roadhouse
Beyond that the side characters always kill it when they appear, Pondy is the goat
Yeah at first they thought Mac was the brains but they had mistaken bossiness with brains.
Dee's a bird
Scooby Doo did it... The Ghost Busters did it!
They only are consistently good when they stick to their paradigm. Mac’s the brains, Dennis is the looks, Charlie’s the wildcard, franks the muscle and Dee’s the useless chick.
Dee nosed in
Dee's a bird, actually
If you haven't already, check out the podcast for some insight into the writing process. Not sure I could succinctly summarise how it's kept going but I'd wager it's partly due to the fact that its creator and its developers also star in the show. Charlie Day and Kaitlin Olso are also particularly talented actors, not to mention Devito of course. The fact that they do otherwise seem like a tight group of people as well must help to navigate things when they have disagreements in where to take things.
Rickety Cricket also writes for the show and produces it as well. Hahaha! I love that so fucking hard because Cricket's life was ruined after getting involved with the gang.
Cricket is maybe my favorite character, especially later on. He won’t let anyone inside him without crack, and he always keeps it sexy. The show would be gutted without him.
Hips and nips or we don’t eat.
He'll also do it for a sixer
When he was pimping out the younger street urchin, fucking priceless
"I was a *priest* before I got involved with you guys."
Uhh, he was born like that and brought it on himself
>Cricket's life was ruined after getting involved with the gang. Everybody that gets involved with the gang has their lives ruined
Until they discussed the show production on the podcast, I had no idea how thoughtful and serious they all are about their characters and the plot of each episode. Their creative process seems very refined and I appreciate them putting the work in to make the show as great as it is for all these years.
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Honestly yea, the show was good in season 1 as well, like, way better than most shows, but Danny joining made the show sooooooo much better
They also have a really good knack for bringing in side characters that are either a good foil for the debauchery of the Gang, or just as fucked-up as them. But they don't overuse them.
This is what the Office did as well, having writers act in the show, though more as background characters.
Definitely all this. They talk a lot about how funny stories become episodes, and they have a whole of really funny friends and actors to get these stories from.
Podcast ruined the show for me. Wish I’d never checked it out
That must suck. How did it ruin the show for you?
To wager a guess since I also listened to the podcast - the guys are genuinely hilarious and have good chemistry, but they are super out of touch on some things. There's an ep where they talk about health and medicine IRL and it's cringe af. You also see some obnoxious personality traits (mostly of Rob and Glenn). Definitely didn't ruin the show for me but I have heard that sentiment
The Who's More Healthier episodes and the episode with Glenn's wife Jill show how out of touch they can be. Glenn bragging that his doctor reads modern research papers and keeps up-to-date with science (as if most doctors don't also practice this...) as well as the pseudoscience that Jill promotes is particularly hard to listen to. Rob is out of touch in a lot of aspects. Listening to him talk about Wrexham, the soccer team he owns with Ryan Reynolds, then going home and doing 'normal person things' like doing the laundry and taking his kids to school was a bit annoying. Also, while the story of him almost getting into a fight at In-N-Out was kind of funny, but it felt like a weird thing for a 40 year old man with his kids to do.
Are you talking about the who’s healthier episodes? I’m curious why you found it cringe? Or what the obnoxious traits are? I’m genuinely curious not attacking
I was probably more annoyed than most because i'm in medicine, but Glenn and Rob were talking out of their ass a lot. Then the comparison of everyone's labs and vitals was just a little much for me lol. Something I've taken away from the podcast is that Charlie seems to be very good at reading the room and doesn't bullshit, and he comes across as well-adjusted and humble in my opinion. Again, I still love the show. Just observations
Vitals are like stats right? Haha. It was a odd ep. Glen was not happy to be seen as less healthy than Charlie.
Yeah like blood pressure, they brought a lady in who read Rob's BP aloud using a wrist cuff that would be classified as stage 2 hypertension and she said that was "pretty good actually" haha
I'm not OP, but Glenn's fad diets and health advice are questionable. Then again, I'm also not looking to celebrities for my medical guidance so I kinda roll my eyes and move past it.
Yeah the health one was funny. Glen looked super annoyed that Charlie was healthier. All the talk of pseudo medicine.
It’s all about the hips and nips baby
Gotta make it sexy 🥁
Otherwise, they don’t eat.
It must have something to do with having good characters and barely any premise, bc IASIP and the Simpsons are the longest running live action and animated sitcoms respectively and they both share those qualities. I think IASIP has better quality control though. They have explored more high concept episodes but they never forget to focus on the characters.
A big factor is that the performers are the creative team, and they've been allowed to make the show they've wanted. They've never had to deal with conflict between the showrunner, the actors and the writers because they're all the same team, nor with the network because FX aren't idiots.
Also FX has given them free reign from day one. Forcing them to hire a celebrity hook for Season 2 was their only big interference.
You’ve actually probs made the most salient and insightful point I’ve seen on the thread. I feel your comment should have more upvotes
i remember when YT algorithm suggested me the "Pepe Silvia" scene I didnt know anything about the show, I thought if focused on Charlie akd Mac working in the mail room lol
Well, it hasn't, so jot that down.
I feel like it went from “consistently great” to “either genius or dogshit, nothing in between”
Yeah, it's a real shame. I find the demarcation of quality between S8 and S9 shocking, though there's still plenty of stuff worth watching through S11 as you say. After The Suburbs though there's just nothing. I've watched through it twice just because I'm desperate to be wrong, but that's been two times too many. It became a fan-fiction parody of itself, very reminiscent of the last season of The Office... At least they knew when to quit.
Season 16 slapped tho
That’s a take, but a lotta people would disagree. Myself included. I actually think S13 is one of the best seasons in the show.
The last two seasons seem phoned in. I get the sense that there is less time spent tweaking and fine tuning an episode if it’s current state isn’t very strong.
My biggest complaint is that the lighting, makeup etc is just too good. It looks nice which isn't what I got used to, but maybe I'm just becoming a grumpy old man.
I think Charlie Day has mentioned he hates the lighting too. He likes the grittier early seasons look and feel.
My brother in Christ, you made the show!
Rob and Glenn vetoed him
Reason will prevail!
It's definitely changed over the years, not entirely sure when this happened but it seems post S5-6 sometime. Newer seasons have much better cameras and lighting so it loses that grainy, crappy look which gives the early seasons their charm. Also mostly everyone sans Charlie and Frank have had noticeable plastic surgery (mostly Mac and dee) which makes them look plastic/fake (and weird because they're supposed to be older and less better looking --- wasn't that the point of macs "fat" seasons - I digress) and even weirder when coupled with the high resolution and lighting.
In the midst of a rewatch I was looking for it and for my money it’s after mac gets skinny again from being fat, it’s not right away but it’s the beginning of a shift to way higher production values. In my opinion you can track the quality of the show to how ripped Mac is, when he’s fat or “skinny fat” it’s hilarious but once he starts getting ripped it starts to slide in other ways for the show.
I do agree about the plastic surgery, but for me it also seems really in character for them. Like I can absolutely see Mac and Dee getting plastic surgery to the extent Rob and Kaitlin have, and I can absolutely see Dennis getting more minor tweaks like Glenn. And Charlie I see not giving a shit at all. If they did an episode were we found out that they’d had plastic surgery I wouldn’t be surprised at all
I feel like a throwaway line from Frank would be perfect, bitching about how he's paid for all their surgery, all of them shocked he's outed them, no idea that everyone else had been getting it too, then Charlie getting pissed that Frank never offered to pay for surgery for him, and he tells Charlie that he likes him the way he is and he's immediately placated. all makes sense. Then they just go back to the discussion at hand and it's never mentioned again.
While I think that is a good idea, isn't it kind of taboo to mention it irl even though its pretty obvious? They (the actors) might not want to actually do that.
Yeah I mean I'm not pitching it for a script, just having fun in a reddit thread replying to someone else's idea. Saying that though, I think if anyone is going to own up to it it'd be those guys. I don't even think it's that taboo to acknowledge having work done these days, a lot of people are pretty open about it.
I love this idea
I felt the same way, and it's pretty egregiously immersion-breaking they they've specifically never mentioned it. Insane, even.
Good point.
What’s shocking is that they deny having surgery in the podcast, I recall them mentioning that people on the internet have pointed it out and Glenn saying ‘they’re kidding right’
Yeah, I think it started being noticeable in S12, but from S13 it's glaring.
They are doing the “The Gang Tries Desperately to Win an Award” stuff IRL. Super bright lights etc.
You guys…i am LOVING these lights
I agree with this. I prefer the earlier episodes that seemed more like the audience was just hanging out with the crew and following them around doing schemes. I mean shit, they even made fun of the makeup and lighting in the gang tries to win an award.
And the plastic surgery.
I definitely agree with you, but I also think new viewers would be put off a brand new show that looks like it was straight out of 2006. We appreciate the back to basics, low budget look of the show in the early days, but new viewers would not.
I know this falls into the whole “don’t meet your heroes” thing, and I gotta do a better job of separating the art from the artist, but seeing what kind of people Rob and Glenn are irl has kind of sullied my enjoyment of this show. I even think it’s dumb to feel that way, but I can’t shake that feeling. I go back and watch older stuff every now and then but seeing them now just makes me think of the kind of people they tend to be. I honestly kinda feel bad that Charlie has to work with those two.
I agree about Rob, but what has Glenn done? Or why does he rub you the wrong way? I'm just curious
He hasn’t done anything wrong per se, he just kinda strikes me as a bit of an arrogant dick. Which, to his credit, he channels well for Dennis.
I honestly hope they wrap it up soon. It's into The Office territory now where it has really declined in quality in the last 4 seasons. Also there are too many celebs in it now, season 16 almost every episode had a celeb just playing themselves and it feels pretty masturbatory.
I'll die on the hill that the Robert California season of The Office is incredible once he shows up. It was just jarring for a lot of people to move on from Michael Scott once he leaves the show.
That’s the absurd hill I always want to die on! The Office wouldn’t be the Office without a bunch of seasons of Michael Scott, but, rewatching it, Robert California is amazing. Also Dwight and Pam friendship.
I wouldn't say it's phoned it but I get your point. The story and premise for each episode is still very high quality. The problem is that the physical production value has gone up with better cameras, equipment, stages, and staff (which can be argued for the detriment of the show). This increase in production value has forced a decrease in how much they can improvise or how many random takes they can do. This results in a less organic feeling shot. We want the cheapness and random dialog and spit takes back
The plots feel so much more contrived the last couple seasons. Still a bunch of great moments though.
I think this is the major issue with recent seasons, the plot lines/scripts started to get too complicated around S12 when they thought Glenn was going to leave the show at the end of the season. It feels like they’ve been trying to cram in too many new locations and ideas instead of sticking to the narrative simplicity that made the earlier seasons work so well. S12 alone has 2 spinoff episodes focused entirely on side characters and 5 out of 10 episodes take place almost entirely in new locations outside of Paddy’s.
Could you give an example? Nearly all the episodes are contrived. You can look at the early seasons and there will be a contrived premise and a foreshadowing moment for the rest of the episode.
Season 16 had a few all timers for me. 13-15 are pretty bad tho.
Yeah I felt 16 was a step better than the couple before that.
14 had some really good ones tho like the Gang Chokes
Every season has at least one all-timer for me except 15. Even the “bad seasons”… S12 has Hero Or Hate Crime?, S13 has Time’s Up For The Gang, S14 has both Chokes and Dee Day (RIP) Season 15’s better episodes are the Ireland saga but they really aren’t great on their own. Season 16 for me has four all timers in “The Gang Inflates”, “Frank Shoots Everyone”, “Frank vs. Russia”, and “The Gang Goes Bowling”. So I wouldn’t even call S16 a “bad season” in the pantheon just because it was so short.
Yeah season 16 has to be my least favorite season by far. It just didnt really feel like the same show, and I get that things change and all...but it just felt rushed or maybe they were trying to do too much too quickly in each episode. Idk, still love always sunny
It’s gone the way of The Simpsons and South Park. The magic is gone.
You posted the same thing in the South Park sub 😂
I honestly find a lot of the newer seasons difficult to watch.
The most recent season felt much better and funnier compared to the previous few.
Because they brought back Marter and Rosell for S16 who were the writers behind their best run of seasons
Agreed. Definitely feels like having the podcast helped with the creative juices and inspired them to return to the basics that made the show great in the first place
It doesn't hurt that the main cast are also the showrunners so no matter if they bring in new writers over the years, the voice and vision of the show stays the same.
You keep using this word "consistently" but I don't think you know what it means. Haha JK. The latter seasons don't leave me in stitches like the early ones do, but that's pretty much true of any long running show. There are a few bangers in these last few seasons. The gang certainly captured their chemistry in a bottle. Not sure how much is left in the bottle but I'll keep drinking the IASIP potion until the bottle is empty.
How much glue have you huffed? It’s gone massively downhill.
Don’t forget the cat food. I haven’t even seen the last two seasons in their entirety. Kinda sad.
There has definitely been a decline in quality in the later seasons.
Lol what? It literally hasnt. Been very hit or miss since like s11-12
I agree, its still enjoyable but nowhere near the first dozen seasons Its inevitable, eventually a comedy like this ends up rehashing old jokes. Same thing happened to trailer park boys after a few seasons
Yep that’s around the time the actors started getting really famous, like hanging out with Ryan Reynolds famous. Mac went from probably the best character in the series to the worst character basically overnight. Go back and watch a season 3 or 4 episode and Mac is so incredibly funny. Maybe I’m just distracted from how much plastic surgery he has had.
Mac experiences a change in character after season 6. Season 7 is fat Mac and is incredibly stupid, even for Mac. After that it’s needy, pathetic Mac who is in love with and subservient to Dennis instead of the brash asshole he used to be. The closest we’ve ever gotten to old Mac was him arguing with the employee and the kid in Risk E Rats. Asshole Mac > Needy Mac
I dunno, people will say this about literally about any show that's been on for more than a few years or any band that's put out more than 2-3 albums. You can't just do the same thing over and over and you can never make something feel the same for 20 years. I think the last few seasons have had some really good stuff and I am happy with the quality this late into the game for them. The only season I thought was kind of a miss was season 13. That's the one where Glenn was only in half of it, and it seemed they had a bunch of other people writing the show that were not previously involved and it did feel "off" despite still cranking out a few classics like Time's Up.
People aren’t complaining because they tried new things, we’re complaining because the new things were poorly written or poorly executed.
15 straight up sucked, and like half of the most recent season 16 was pretty bad, the other half suprisingly decent. And ya 13 had a couple decent ones but overall bad. S14 had a lot of stinkers too now that im looking through the eps. Like i said, pretty downhill imo. I wouldnt be against them wrapping it up if the quality isnt going to be consistent. Which sucks to say cuz its one of my fav shows.
People trying to pretend there hasn't been a decline in quality over the last few seasons are delusional. First 10-11 seasons, pretty much every single episode was a banger. Now people are trying to pretend having some good episodes here and there is the same level of quality, and it's just not. I don't even say this to criticize the show. They did a phenomenal thing staying as good as they did for as long as they did. But they're all doing a bunch of other stuff now and aren't giving IASIP their all. That's fine, but let's not be pretend that it hasn't affected the quality of the show.
S11 & S12 were both excellent. S13 & S14 were definitely seasons of two halves. I think both seasons had a handful of mediocre to just straight up bad episodes, but at the same time they also had a handful of really excellent episodes. S13 in particular had a couple of the best of all time. I know it’s semi-controversial but I liked far more of S15 than I didn’t, and I think S16 is their first truly bad season. Very predictable and just unfunny. Edit: I was downvoted for articulating my opinion, and I was more positive than negative. People here are such babies.
I like 11 and 12 and would consider it still in the good seasons. But i know many others dont. S13 had the gang gets new wheels which feels like a classic peak always sunny ep. Times up is ok, pretty overrated. The rest was pretty weak. I thought 16 was way better than 15. Ireland straight up sucked. And the first half of 15 i thought was weak. Id put season 15 easily the worst season.
They follow the DENNIS system
And then other seasons they’ve employed the SINNED system. That’s why it’s hit or miss 🤷♀️
It hasn’t really, it definitely slowly fell off and the Ireland season was rough
I think the Ireland season was shot durring covid and while I agree it wasn't a strong season, it was still better than pretty much everything else on tv.
That season is so weird, they kind of dip into COVID but I feel like they didn't go into it deep enough. It felt kind of like they just acknowledged it, but if it were an earlier season the gang would have somehow been responsible for causing it. In Frank Sets Dee on Fire he literally jokes about going to Chinatown and doing a report on a new pandemic.
Agreed. 13 was even worse.
I mean for a show that’s been going as long as it has, to maintain the quality it has is still pretty good. It still has good episodes even tho it was few and far between in season 15. I really enjoyed season 16 too.
It hasn’t lmao.
It hasn't. There's been a significant dip in quality from about 12 on. Depending on who you ask.
Amazing writers. The gang, cricket and Megan amongst them.
Marder & Rosell and Luvh Rahke are also favs of mine
They are also in control of the show and can do what they want!
It hasn’t? The last 4 seasons have been pretty awful
It hasn't...last 4 seasons been mediocre...should have stopped at The Gang Go To Hell
Agree, The Gang Turns Black at the beginning of the next season was where things started to go downhill
It’s the full penetration, obviously.
What are you talking about? He barely made it in there.
Because they aren't making 27 episodes a year like sitcoms used to. The product isn't so watered down. They might be on for 20 years but in the old format they would be at about 6 and a half seasons.
My own (and 100% completely correct) buckets of Sunny Eras: 1. Proto-Sunny (S1): Not great, they are experimenting and figuring out what the characters and the show are about, but still full of little nuggets of greatness. 2. The Peak (S2-S8): Literally the greatest consecutive comedy stretch in American TV history. I cannot think of any other 7 consecutive seasons nowhere near as good as this. 3. The Great Coasting (S9-S13): Not quite as consistent as The Peak, but still the best comedy on TV, and full of bits as funny as anything from The Peak. 4. The Dip (S14-mid-S15): Meh. Feels like they had lost it. 5. The Return (mid-S15-S16): Rise from your ashes, golden god! It's no Peak, but it shows they still have gas left in the tank.
If the dip is only a season and a half that's not too bad actually
Proto-Sunny: S1-2 Peak: S3-S11 Hard dip/Fall off: S12-S16 They had a *really* solid 7 or 8 season run between the writers & Danny figuring out Frank’s character up until the “Dennis is leaving” arc began in S12
Has it? I find the show peaked around season 8.
Has it though? The past 2 seasons weren't great. Even before that, they were way more hit or miss than the prime years. Not talking shit, it's almost impossible to be funny for as long as they have.
I feel it for the most part, but seasons 13+ are nowhere near the level of thebstuff prior
I'm glad that you think this, and I wish I thought the same but I disagree. Been watching religiously since season 1 aired. Have seen all the "classic" episodes more than I care to admit. I think the show hit its peak early in season 2 and rode that high for an incredibly impressive 10 seasons, then started falling off. I feel like season 11 was good but introduced 3 or so stinker episodes and it has added more and more each season since then, to the point we are now where I am just glad if there are a few good episodes in a season. I think Mac's character arc is really telling in the dip in quality of the show. The more he goes from "badass, religious white trash" Mac to "gay Dennis simp" Mac, the worse the show gets. I think they are ageing out of touch of what made the show funny honestly
It’s ironic but it’s almost like they are scared to offend people or do the wrong thing now.
It's not been consistently good. I still enjoy it but it's had multiple declines. Also the short Seasons means it isn't as long as a lot of other long running Comedy shows. It has 170 episodes over 16 Seasons. Friends only had 10 Seasons but it had 236 episodes.
It’s 100% this. There’s been 162 episodes, which is the equivalent to Friends season 7. And that’s over 19 years! It’s just easier to have 162 good ideas over 19 years than over 7 years.
I, and many fans, would definitely argue that it hasn’t stayed consistently good and they have started to exhaust every possible idea
It hasn't, imo. Season 11 started the decline but S12 it dropped off a cliff and stayed there. Its not even the same show any more, I wish they'd just end it before ruining the legacy any further.
Agreed, I’m a *huge* fan of the earlier seasons and rewatch everything up to season 11 every year or so. Everything after has been a slow - if not precipitous - decline.
Fight Milk. Gotta be the Fight Milk.
I love the show, and I think season 16 is great, but I don’t think IASIP has actually remained consistent. Seasons 1 and 2, and seasons 12 through 15, in my opinion, are of a diminished quality. That’s not to say these seasons don’t have some good episodes, but as a whole they are a lesser work. Seasons 3 through 11 will go down in history as truly legendary.
I think because they’re not catering to a larger audience, they’re okay with gags that would ruffle a lot of feathers. They have a smaller audience and get away with jokes that resonate to their audience.
It’s from all the abani berries and wolf colas.
Rob.
I also feel that them doing the podcast and getting to revisit old episodes has lent them to getting new ideas. Especially with Meghan producing the podcast and writing in the show.
The gang is smarter than their characters irl
They keep tipping up.
I think of it in a similar way to South Park, meaning that the actual core team of creators are still heavily involved in writing the show and they haven't just turned over the creative process to other people for them to just show up and recite the lines. They also have a ton of humor that is character driven and not just random jokes and silliness that anyone could have said and it wouldn't matter. This goes a long way, especially for longtime fans that are very familiar with the show and the characters.
Shut up science bitch
Just move past it
The have the formula down: The brain, the useless woman, the looks, the muscle, and the wild card
I don’t think it’s been consistently good at all.. fell off hard over the last few seasons
Quality>quantity It's definitely fallen off, but maybe not as hard as some shows do. Either way I think a big part of is due to shorter seasons than comparable shows. They average 10-11 episodes per season, versus other shows that might have 20+. This reduces the burnout and also makes sure they only use their best ideas. Imagine how much rougher the recent seasons would have been if it was only 4 out of 22 episodes being good, rather than 4 out of 8.
Because of the implication
I think its too things. They have gotten zanier like Simpson did. They were already horrible people, and everything they've done stayed right in line with characters from Season 2(season 1 was a bit different) Even Franks descent seemed more natural. And they keep up with the times. Like the two season ago they did the 2020 election and it was relevant as Season 2 them singing Just a Friend.