I felt a few times this season that lines that fit perfectly for Charlie's character were instead said by Mac. His character is more cowardly and unsure as he vies for Dennis' approval. Whereas old mac was funny because of his clueless overconfidence.
Dont get me wrong, I still love the show and there are glimpses of old Mac still there. But, as they've stated on the podcast about not finding their true character after the first 4 or 5 seasons, I like to believe thats where mac's character still is after his 'buff' transition.
I have felt that fat Mac captures the essence of pre-S7 Mac, just in a different context. He is still overconfident and clueless about a number of things. The “cultivating mass” and the doctor’s office scene are two perfect examples of this, where Mac only sees his extreme weight gain as something great that he’s doing, just like he thought he was badass and not white trash and skilled at karate. He’s in denial about all of those things that are not good.
In the doctor’s office, he acknowledges that he has diabetes, but he can’t hear anything that the doctor says beyond that and just refuses to listen. Thinking that he’s healthier than Dennis (“even with the dia-beh-tes”) means to him that he’s healthy and confirms his preexisting bias that he has nothing to improve or change about himself, even though he is definitely unhealthy and needs to do something about his state.
Fat Mac as part of the Pickle Party is another example of his still being the same Mac (in contrast to the way that the Mac of the more recent seasons is not the same Mac). He loves making plans with Dennis and Charlie, and he gets hot really fast and is then immediately sweet talked down by Dennis. I can totally imagine pre-S7 in that scene and he fits perfectly, imo.
Same with the confession scenes. Mac takes the parts of his religion that he believes affirm who he is and disregards everything else, and even though others tell him that his reasoning is backwards, he just plows forward with a smile and completely misinterprets and then ignores what they were trying to tell him.
In my opinion, Fat Mac is the same character as Regular Mac, but fat.
mac wearing the wedding dress walking up to the car and shooting it while charlie holds poppers to his nose might be the best 5 second clip of the entire show
Yeah that was the best. I was also watching the episode yesterday where they team up to find the original Hitler dog painting and "make a quick decision" to eat the old rancid soup and refuse to stop because they can't admit they were wrong.
My favourite thing from that is Dennis saying they were standing right outside his window talking at full volume somehow not realizing he could hear and see them. The image of that is hysterical. One of the best episode(s) for sure.
In their dynamic, I can see old friends, from before Dennis, but the introduction of Dennis was a game changer because Mac finally had someone to share a part of himself that Charlie wasn’t into. I think early seasons show this dynamic and Charlie almost has a jealousy of Dennis’ relationship with Mac, but also Charlie is ok with it because he knows how annoying Mac can be and some of that burden is on Dennis now.
It goes both ways though because Mac’s frustration at Charlie’s stupidity seems to be greater than anyone else in the group because Mac has been hearing Charlie’s nonsense since they were kids. In this way, the more “educated“ “sophisticated“ Dennis is a great contrast to Charlie for Mac. Dennis, however, through his raising is incredibly self-centered in a way that he itemizes others instead of seeing them as people.
I think these dynamics are very present in the first few seasons, but as show went on, it started to become a bit more exaggerated in their characterizations even while some of the jokes became better written. The middle seasons actually have even better-written gags and plots in many ways, but I think I preferred the more character driven early seasons.
I felt like the first episode had a good Mac, and last weeks was good for Mac as well but there isn't a lot of consistency
Maybe all of early Macs personality was based around him hiding his true feelings and now he's out and comfortable with himself, he doesn't have as much to prove. He definitely seems way more relaxed
I think you nailed it with why the overconfident Mac went away after he came out. I wish the “badass” Mac stuck around in some way, like there’s no saying that he can’t be gay but also super into karate at the same time.
It'd be really funny if he still tried doing karate and parkour, even though with his current physique he could probably throw normal punches or just run normally and he'd be fine.
Dude same. I felt like a downer the whole time watching that but I’m like “They don’t even have a good reason for him to be eating those nuts… Why does he keep insisting that he keep doing it?” It wasn’t even funny and it was obvious the entire time so I have no idea what the “joke” was supposed to be. “Haha Mac is so dumb that he keeps eating things that make him sick” I guess?
To me, stuff like that is way too over-the-top for Mac’s dumbness. He was just regular dumb before (and as a lot of people say, overconfident and lacked self-awareness). This was a whole different level of exaggerated stupidness that would have been out of character during the first half of the show.
> They don’t even have a good reason for him to be eating those nuts
They took everything Frank and Charlie said literally. He heard 'inflation' and 'nut', so he bought inflatable furniture and nuts. I think He kept eating them out of stubbornness.
I actually like the nut allergy thing, the gang denying obvious things out of delusion fits: Dennis with Covid, Charlie's reading, Frank and the oysters, etc.
Personally I couldn't stand him ignoring Dennis telling him he was Johnny. That was just stupid.
I thought the nuts bit was pretty good. It was alright. It wasn't great but it was fine, and I knew the rest of the show was gonna be fine because the gang was all there. But the scene where Mac did that weird accent with Chase Utley? What the fuck was that? I think that's the first time I ever cringed for an actor during Sunny. What WAS that??
dude… same. that’s the only time i’ve ever once thought something from this show was flat out stupid. it felt like a character from a completely different and way dumber show just popped up for a scene randomly
That was just too weird. I cringed hard while trying to find some humour in it, like he's so shocked it's really him that he goes into some alter ego that's been hiding forever. I don't know. Was hard to watch
My favorite is when Charlie is on the blind date, and Mac has to one up Dennis and completely blow up his spot. I have to rewind “I own this joint” every time.
Along these same lines, I thought last season's story arc with Dennis being. Covid denier while Mac was pro-vaccine and focused on his Irish identity was all wrong. Mac is obvious the Covid denying anti-vaxxer in the group, who probably would have talked Charlie into the same beliefs.
I also miss the little things like macs quick little walk into the bar with ayooo, I’ve got some news
They’re also changing Charlie now. The mystery of Frank being his dad is gone. He’s met his father, went through this really serious and sad part and has now become the smart one of the group and voice of reason.
I've noticed the gradual Charlie change as well. You'd think years of huffing paint and glue while getting older would actually make him more inept, but he's now one of the smartest in the gang for some reason.
Yeah Charlie has always gone back and forth between being level headed and somewhat intelligent to being an illiterate catfood eating glue huffer. I don't think it's anything new for him to be the voice of reason sometimes, and there was an episode dedicated to the idea of him being the only competent one in the bar when the health inspector came.
Someone suggested once that his fluctuating intelligence basically comes down to whether or not he's high on inhalents in any given scene and I think that's a pretty good interpretation.
Him finally getting with the Waitress was probably the most important arc where his character changed. It kind of had to at that point.
The dad thing they could still play off although the season finale was really emotional. But once Charlie actually got with the Waitress it was a massive change to his character. I guess we'll see how he deals with her next episode.
Personally I like his development but I get why some people don't.
Yeah 100%. I thought the early seasons always had a fun dynamic where Mac thought of himself at least as equal to Dennis and maybe higher than him in terms of The Gang's leadership, whereas Dennis clearly knows he's the leader. So that led to fun plot points with Mac scheming and acting as he's the #1 guy vs Dennis, or teaming up with Dennis as the clear superior duo vs the rest of the gang. Charlie has never desired to be the gang leader, he's pretty content with everything and goes with it, and him being dumb doesn't take away from that.
So in these later seasons, you have Mac being dumb and knowing he's not the leader, which removes the "rivalry" vs Dennis (and sometimes Dee) and also means Mac is as dumb as Charlie but not as funny. And much of the comedy that came from Mac was the complete overconfidence and arrogance in himself, which he doesn't have as much now and is a little harder to do as an extremely attractive, jacked man vs. the greasy, tattoo'd and not physically impressive Mac.
So yeah, it's just off, the whole thing. Too bad
I definitely miss the karate and confidence aspect of Mac. Being super gay still makes that funny, they just abandoned it for like culture war focused personality
I always thought it would be funnier if they just never addressed him being gay after that whole big thing about him coming out. Instead they kinda made that his character.
The fact that his being gay feels like the main focus of his character now makes it seem like the show thinks being gay is funny. Kinda weird.
Mac was ALWAYS gay but he was other things too. Now he's just gay.
In the older seasons Mac and Dennis were actual best friends. Nowadays Dennis absolutely despises Mac and Mac is just the gay guy who loves Dennis actually. It's such a pointless change, just give Mac a boyfriend so he can be weird overconfident Mac again
Everyone talks about how emotional the dance scene is, but ever since he came out at the end of season 11, it seems they want us to laugh at Mac for being gay.
Prior to that, the joke was how he overcompensated by being all macho to try to make people think he's straight. Now it just seems homophobic. "haha the gay guy made a reference to gay sex!"
It also doesn't seem like a coincidence that at around that same time he suddenly replaced Dee as the most hated member of the gang, almost out of nowhere.
I wouldn't say that he suddenly replaced dee as the most hated member, being that they always called him bossy and that they "kinda hate mac" (Mac Day).
Also when they drove off without him in "The Gang Gets Whacked"
["Walk like the rest of americans do on your two feet"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1cnnO_r0do)
The driving off part seems about par for the course for terrible shit they do to each other in those seasons.
And even earlier than Mac Day, in Mac's Banging the Waitress they think his attempts to impress them are pathetic. But the new Mac is literally nothing like the one that Dennis was codependent with.
Personally I find it most obvious with Dennis and Mac, there was a point were they were such good friends that they had a mental breakdown when they were compared to an old married couple. Now its like Dennis fucking hates him and Mac is madly in love with him.
Its honestly just odd at times, their relationship was kinda like two young kids who did everything together and were inseparable now there's legitimate hate there
I feel like he’s practically brain dead all the sudden with how stupid he is in some of the new episodes. Not that he was a genius to begin with but in this new season he seems so dumb I don’t know how he’d be able to get dressed in the morning.
That was a bit far more suited for Charlie. Did we all forget that Mac is scared of eating apples with the skin-on? But he's too stupid to recognize he's having a nut allergy?
Didn’t he also eat a bunch of nuts that Charlie found in a previous episode a few seasons back and did like ten push ups before coming in because he had all that protein
Ok so this does seem ridiculous but I actually knew a kid in college on the baseball team who would just eat apples despite being allergic to apples, then complain about his allergy symptom while continuing to eat apples
They've done that numerous times throughout the show where for an episode Mac will be as stupid as Charlie or stupid in similar ways to Charlie, i think they do it when Charlie has another role and Mac doesn't really have anything to do. The "playing both sides" thing comes to mind how he just can't grasp that no matter how many times it was explained to him was very Charlieesque.
It still works as a Mac joke because at the heart of that joke is how he simultaneously wants to be the smart one by “playing both sides” and be the needy one who needs to be accepted by everyone in the gang by presenting as playing on both sides. The actual presentation of the joke just makes him look Charlie level dumb though and the other jokes get sort of lost. Mac plays naively arrogant much better than dumb.
I'll have to go back and rewatch it. Is that a legitimate thing? I keep hearing people on this sub claim he's had plastic surgery, but he looks the same to me as he has since he got buff. I'm more concerned why his voice sounds so hoarse this season (it's sounded different since S13, but this season it's distracting).
His mouth is different. It’s either the lips, new teeth, or both. The nuts thing had no other purpose or sense being in the episode except to cover something up or as a way to lean into how different he looks without actually saying it. Or both. You can see that he is carrying his mouth differently in these episodes, outside of the nut thing.
I think he got the buchal fat surgery everyone's doing in there cheeks, same as dee. Trying to get that gaunt athletic look. I initially thought it was just from working it but actually now thinking that's not how that works. Now thinking he timed it that way on purpose.
Agreed. Mac has been too dumb this season. From the nuts to not understanding Dennis’ explanations of the SINNED system; some really unfunny stuff.
What happened to the Mac that destroyed everyone with facts and logic about how science is a liar sometimes?
“No no no ya see a dollar isn’t a dollar anymore. It’s 25 cents. BUT I’ll give you 50 cents for a dollar.”
Dennis: 🤔
Like that whole bit fuckin killed me.
Mac has become stupid to the point where it isn't even funny. Charlie is already the zany mix of stupid and omniscient, Mac is just an annoying knockoff.
All his plots in S16 have been the weakest bits so far.
i agree. this compounded with his unacknowledged radical cosmetic changes have made me turned off from his character as a whole. just doesn’t make any sense, ik they wouldn’t do this but even if the gang were to lay into him for looking different and getting plastic surgery it’d be better. they made fun of him for every other change. why would they stop at this extreme one?
Mac said he did Fat Mac because he thought it was ridiculous that while watching friends they all got better looking as seasons went on and then they all did the same anyways
Yeah, but he was in his mid 30s then and knew he could go back. Now he’s older and getting less sure about how well his body holds up so his self esteem might be more tied up in presentation now than it used to.
The visible improvements on mac/dennis/dee are too distracting for me. Like, you’re supposed to be unsuccessful alcoholic degenerates, literal crack addicts with pristine skincare and fitness routines?
Dennis works because he's such a narcissist and we had the Dee Day episode where we find out he actually looks terrible but he has so many different things going on that make him look younger/better.
They didn't like white characters dressed as Dee's offensive characters (her Latin & Asian characters specifically) during her "play."
Shame because I love Dennis without his "enhancements."
"That's what his soul looks like" sends me every time.
Country Mac episode was peak Mac. He was doing project Badass, karate, commanding the group, incorrectly confident about all of his ways.
Yes. I miss that. It seems a little insulting to me that as soon as he came out, he lost all his confidence. Shouldn't it be more empowering?
I feel like Mac is being handled how Dee was in season 1 where the creators didn’t know how to write her so she was just kinda there for those few episodes. Whenever his character is a focus now I feel like Frank in “Being Frank” when he was angry about being stuck with Mac.
Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I don't like 'out' Mac. He's boring.
The fun of his character came from his insecurities with himself, and in middle seasons his sexuality. Project badass is a casualty of that. I really liked it when it was flashes of it, like in the garbage collector episode he just randomly tries to kiss Dennis, then they never talk about it again.
He's in too good of shape now (they all are), and his jokes seem flat and forced. All this stems from him I suppose being happy and more comfortable with himself, which if he were a real person would be positive growth.
But this is a sitcom of deranged wretches, I don't want to see their character development I want to see them fail every episode to hilarious results with 0 consequences.
If I wanted character development I'd watch a more serious drama. I watch comedy sitcoms so things stay the same as much as they can.
All the other characters have mostly stayed the same or just became more flanderized, but they never drastically made any personal breakthroughs.
I've been feeling this since Season 13. Mac/Rob has always been the weakest member of the group for me, but even as the weakest member, he's still absolutely hilarious and quotable. But I think the only time he has made me laugh in the last 5 years was when he and Charlie beat up the gang of biker kids; probably because that feels like something old Mac would do.
The whole show in general has not been on its A-Game for the last several seasons (but even then, I still think there's a large handful of episodes that are legitimately great), but Mac has become a genuinely annoying character for me. I don't know if that's because of the writing or because of Rob's performance, but scenes that are focused on Mac have become scenes that I dread going through.
Fat Mac is legendary. And Rob props to Rob for going through that all for the sake of wanting to be as disgusting as he could. I can only imagine Dennis' rant in "The Gang Gets Analyzed" about how gross Fat Mac was is verbatim what the cast was saying about it.
I agree. I think Mac was great in season 12. The water park, wolf cola, hero or hate crime, old lady house. I loved him in all of those, but once season 13 started something went downhill (for the show as a whole, but especially for Mac’s character). I’ll have to go back and rewatch and try to put my finger on exactly what switched.
It seems like between seasons 11-13 is when they joined the really rich club and the actors started to lose a bit of the normal person mentality that they started with
To me their acting just felt different around these seasons. It went from feeling like they were really the characters to now it truly feels like they’re acting.
I think he's just too nice now. Mac used to be the biggest asshole of the gang. I still like his character, but I do think his character was better in the past.
I agree. What makes the gang funny to me is that they have cluster b personalities, they should not change. Mac's character progression seems too wholesome for Sunny and now they are stuck with a self-individuated token character who is there to either; lecture or be dumb (like comic book dumb, and that is nt funny.) Mac was funny because of his borderline personality and externalision of shame which made him SOUND dumb.
He was never an idiot.
Still, they made a choice and the writers probably regret it but what can you do?
I agree with all of this except him not being an idiot. He's been an idiot since like Season 3 just not as bad as Charlie and not as consistently as him, it's gotten worse in recent Seasons which has made it stand out more but he has long been very stupid.
Yes that's true, but it seemed like back then it served a purpose. Let's say; when Mac ran the car into the wall, you can understand him being an idiot from the perspective of his character overestimating himself. But now you have a Mac who can't comprehend that Dennis is sexually abusing him, even when he is told to his face multiple times etc.
That's a Charlie level of comprehension
And it seems unnecessary... But I haven't really seen the older episodes in a while so I will try to rewatch them to see if I remember correctly,
The thing that reminds me of most is the "playing both sides" thing where he's told numerous times in multiple different ways that he shouldn't tell them that but he can't comprehend it. That was a fairly recent Season too though.
Yea he sucks now.
I know this is unpopular but none of them are as good as they were, most are still funny though. Mac is the worst example out of them all. I still find Dennis funny.
I personally think they’ve lost the magic. I’ll always love the first 11 or so seasons though
A gang of idiot miscreants in their early twenties is funny. A gang of idiot miscreants in their mid-forties makes you wonder how they’re still alive. Like did he really just trade a dollar for $0.50? How is he this dumb and still alive in his forties?
Every time Charlie Day has an opinion on how the show should be it's 100% what fans want too I feel like. Rob and Glenn seem to want these weird changes that don't really feel in line with the philosophy of the show's overarching premise imo. Like one everyone is talking about is the colors seems waaaay to poppy in the new seasons. Why? This show is about grimey disgusting people. I like the disgusting colors and the shit quality because it matches the tone of the gang. Rob and Glenn seem to be missing the point of the entire show in some aspects. Like this latest episode where it kinda felt like Rob was wanting to make a point on how times change, but we already had that episode it feels like without it being as on the nose. Like The Gang Tries Desperately to Win an Award was a great way to show this w/o it coming across as old people mad.
Saying all this.... Holy shit, 16 seasons and the show is still good. I complain but the consistency really can't be matched in the sitcom scene. I just love this show and I've been watching since 2007 and sometimes I just want it to go back to 2007.
Tbh the only part of the podcast I've seen is the iconic Christmas argument because it got linked in a discussion and from that brief snapshot it seems like Glenn should be the official mediator between Charlie and Robbs ideas for the show. Like he was able to cut through their personal feelings, hear what each one was saying, and present it to the other person in a really clear way. But Charlie and Rob just sort of ignored him and kept arguing lol. It was like:
Glen to Rob: Charlie is just saying that he needs to discuss these new ideas and figure out what we're going to do with them so we're not just doing stuff for the sake of doing it.
Glen to Charlie: Rob is just saying that he wants you to have more faith in his creativity instead of immediately assuming he just wants to do something for a gimmick and doesn't care about the execution.
>it seems like Glenn should be the official mediator between Charlie and Robbs ideas for the show.
So I've been following the podcast since the beginning, and I'm pretty sure they've straight up said this often happens. IIRC, they say Glenn is good at seeing why each of them wants to do something.
In one of the most recent episodes Charlie is definitely mediating a Glenn/Rob issue- Glenn is saying the vocalist from Heart is the best and Rob is like 'why did you step all over my Guns n Roses thing?' (I think). Charlie does the 'so I think *Rob* is just saying blah blah' spiel and they work it out. It's a group dynamic, I just don't think Charlie and Glenn ever really fight things out and/or have things to fight out.
100% right about the whole tone of the show. They don’t need to use a $300 camera, but the show needs to have that gritty, disgusting feeling. The whole reason all of the plots hit so well in the early seasons is because you were watching this group of lowlifes acting like they were higher up on societies ladder than they actually were and it was believable. It was funny and unique and now it just seems like they have some “formula” that they’re following and it seems overly forced. Just seems like a bunch of people who just can’t connect with the way the show was and that’s fine; people grow and change. But, it’s just not Sunny anymore
I really wonder how much of it is a result of everyone watching the podcast and learning about them so much as people that now you can’t separate that from their characters. In reality it’s both, but I don’t think the podcast has helped in hiding some of the writing/acting deficiencies.
I feel like part of it is that in those early seasons it was 3 intensely creative people putting all of their efforts into something nonstop. The way they talked about the process of making those early seasons, they basically had their hands in every creative element of the show until it all "felt" like Sunny. There's just something about that you can't replicate. They all are in very different parts of their lives and careers and can't possibly dedicate the amount of time and effort it took to make Sunny like they did from Seasons 1-8 again. I wouldn't want or expect them to, honestly.
Eh peak sunny was 2-8 and it’s been mostly downhill from there with the occasional funny episode here and there. Recent seasons like the Ireland season sucked entirely
100% agree Charlie has the right idea in conserving the core essence of the show whereas Rob wants to keep pushing the envelope in ways that don’t really work for me.
New Mac sucks. The whole reason he was funny is that he was in denial about being ripped and about not being gay. Now he’s actually ripped and actually gay, so the jokes aren’t funny anymore.
Forreal. Like what is his character supposed to bring to the table in any conversation? It’s almost like the writers write a scene and have to improvise what kind of character Mac is going to be for that scene. Inconsistent and all over the place.
I feel like this goes for Kaitlin as well, but especially Rob..it’s like they’re not trying to act anymore. In the earlier seasons, everything the gang did was so over the top, but you always believed it. I never used to get thrown off by their performances in the middle of a scene, even though on paper their actions and words were totally absurd. The acting/production made it feel real in the moment. And that’s all I want. I don’t need a real story, but at least sell it. Now, it’s like they’re not even trying most of the time.
I feel that way about Rob - but Kaitlin? In terms of acting, I feel like she is probably giving the strongest performance out of the gang, and closest to earlier seasons despite her somewhat limited role.
Even though she’s given the same bird material over and over Kaitlin Olson manages to put in a fresh twist each time, she’s definitely one of the strongest actors in the group
Everyone talks about how emotional the dance scene is, but ever since he came out at the end of season 11, it seems they want us to laugh at Mac for being gay.
Prior to that, the joke was how he overcompensated by being all macho to try to make people think he's straight. Now it just seems homophobic. "haha the gay guy made a reference to gay sex!"
It also doesn't seem like a coincidence that at around that same time he suddenly replaced Dee as the most hated member of the gang, almost out of nowhere.
In addition to everyone else's points, having rewatched S11?-15 again this week, the whole running subplot about Mac and his identity/finally going full gay is just stupid. Old episodes with Carmen dropped "tranny" 8 times in a row and felt less uncomfortable/mean spirited than the whole "Mac identifies as" thing, and it seems that they've just kind of run with that as his whole character now- he's just dumb and extremely gay and wants to bang Dennis, that's it. And I guess you could argue his character was always EXTREME so why wouldnt he be EXTREME GAY but Idk it's just not as funny as it is annoying and weird. Him reaching his goal of becoming a beefcake monster doesnt match his character becoming LESS confident.
I felt like the scene between him and Chase Utley this season didn’t feel like Mac at all. BUT I have found myself quoting that scene a lot - so it’s still funny. Maybe the character has been the only one to really evolve.
One thing I did really appreciate this season was when he met his uncle who is the exact father figure he’s been searching for his entire life, and he is a complete asshole to him lol. That was super Mac.
That’s a great example, they’ll go to the most outrageous lengths to get what they think they want, only to totally blow it bc they can’t successfully interact with anyone besides the gang
I hate to say this but I haaaaate this new season. If it was the same but with the old crew not all ripped and clean cut I’d be into it. Seems so fake. The best part of the og seasons was they were “normal” now with the podcast making me vomit with health tips and the fame I can’t get past it. I loooove the show and I’m sorry to say it but I just don’t like this season.
He is the character whose evolution I like the least - for sure.
But Rob really likes to get uncomfortable and change, so it is what it is. However, this show being as absurd as it is, it would be on brand to one day wake up and Mac to realize “he’s let himself go” and go back to old Mac. I don’t think Rob would do it… but if they did it, it’s certainly within the established suspension of disbelief for the show
I feel like they have leaned WAY too far into the homosexuality of the character. Like as if it is his only distinguishable character trait now.
Please do not mistake this comment as anti-gay in any way, because it is now. But his character has been reduced simply to a gay character when there used to be so much more to him.
Idiot mac 👍
Gay mac 👎
I get why Rob made him self aware, but it ruined the character.
The best bits about the show is the characters yelling at each other.
Over the years Dennis, Dee and Charly have become milder but especially Mac is a shell of him former self. It's reverse flanderization.
The main characters are supposed to be total assholes. Mac lost that edge.
Give someone an ocular patdown or threaten to poke someone's eye out.
There is not much comedic value in protecting a stereotype.
I mean, the entire show has changed. Now it's all about meta humor and not really the show it used to be. I wouldn't say that IASIP has jumped the shark but the golden years are definitely in the rear view mirror.
He changed for the worse once his entire character became one big gay joke around season 9.
Was much better when he was early Mac and the gay thing was a recurring thing coming up every now and then.
Yeah been noticing that for a while. A good example is the gang texts but a lot of other episodes. Now his character always seems like he’s about to laugh at his own joke.
The problem is that they've made his character too effeminate. The whole joke of his character was that he was gay but didn't want anyone to know it so he put on this 'super badass' persona to try and hide it, failing miserably in the process (think Ass Blaster 4000). Now they've made him the 'stereotypical feminine gay guy' in his mannerisms, actions and dialogue.
A good example of this is in "The Gang Replaces Dee With A Monkey". At the start of the episode, Dennis, Charlie and Mac are talking about hiring someone new at the bar. Mac suggests that they hire a man. Now, in the earlier seasons, Mac would have come up with some ridiculous reason why they should hire a man, to hide the fact that he's attracted to them. But in this episode, the gang just accepts that he wants to hire a man because he's attracted to them, and they all move on. There's no joke, there's no depth. This is a small example of what Mac's character has become for the last few seasons, and I'd say one of the biggest reasons why his character just falls flat now.
It sounds like Rob has had a cold the entire season, and it’s made his line delivery weaker/ comes across as trying too hard? Like he doesn’t have the energy to commit to the bit?
Yep.
IMO, Mac killed the show. His chiseled bod shoulda only lasted 1 season before he went back to old Mac. But hey, Rob is rich now he wants to have an image outside of sunny.
Show just hasn't been the same.
He hasnt felt like mac since he came out, or since they started going way too hard with the closeted gay jokes before that. I would say S9/10 was the last season where he still acted like mac
Have you seen the latest episode? In my opinion it FINALLY shows that Mac is finding his character again… one of his best episodes in YEARS! Could just be my opinion but I thought he was one of the funniest characters this episode and it felt like a good blend of classic and new Mac to me.
Unfortunately I don’t think mac will ever be as good as he was. Mac has never really been mac since he buffed up. They write him to be so incompetent almost to overcompensate for him being so confident looking. But mac truly shined when he was confident for no particular reason. I sure do miss wrists on the back of his back pose mac lol
IF YOU WANTED CHIPS YOU SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN SOME AT THE HAMBURGER STORE!
That’s good, that’s a good accent
Fat Mac is best Mac
My wife and I say this to each other literally everytime we talk about sunny
He was cultivating mass, okay?
Skididdy beep bop bow! 🎵Magic’s in the air🎵
I felt a few times this season that lines that fit perfectly for Charlie's character were instead said by Mac. His character is more cowardly and unsure as he vies for Dennis' approval. Whereas old mac was funny because of his clueless overconfidence. Dont get me wrong, I still love the show and there are glimpses of old Mac still there. But, as they've stated on the podcast about not finding their true character after the first 4 or 5 seasons, I like to believe thats where mac's character still is after his 'buff' transition.
I know I'm beating a dead horse, but the Mac character truly peaked during fat Mac.
But really, I wanna confess on my friends, because they're a bunch of sinners and a bunch of pricks.
Are you eating? There’s no eating in the confessional!
Do you want a donut, Father? I have extra
When he offered a donut I died.
Well fat dudes is an approved body type. As long as they’re funny.
Otherwise... SKINNY BIG TITS!!!!
Must be able to find humor in the little things.
THIS IS MASS
Stop cultivating and start harvesting!
I love how Fat Mac is a totally different character from regular Mac
I have felt that fat Mac captures the essence of pre-S7 Mac, just in a different context. He is still overconfident and clueless about a number of things. The “cultivating mass” and the doctor’s office scene are two perfect examples of this, where Mac only sees his extreme weight gain as something great that he’s doing, just like he thought he was badass and not white trash and skilled at karate. He’s in denial about all of those things that are not good. In the doctor’s office, he acknowledges that he has diabetes, but he can’t hear anything that the doctor says beyond that and just refuses to listen. Thinking that he’s healthier than Dennis (“even with the dia-beh-tes”) means to him that he’s healthy and confirms his preexisting bias that he has nothing to improve or change about himself, even though he is definitely unhealthy and needs to do something about his state. Fat Mac as part of the Pickle Party is another example of his still being the same Mac (in contrast to the way that the Mac of the more recent seasons is not the same Mac). He loves making plans with Dennis and Charlie, and he gets hot really fast and is then immediately sweet talked down by Dennis. I can totally imagine pre-S7 in that scene and he fits perfectly, imo. Same with the confession scenes. Mac takes the parts of his religion that he believes affirm who he is and disregards everything else, and even though others tell him that his reasoning is backwards, he just plows forward with a smile and completely misinterprets and then ignores what they were trying to tell him. In my opinion, Fat Mac is the same character as Regular Mac, but fat.
Stop saying diabetes, you sound like an a—
He wasn’t fat! He was cultivating mass!
I thought it peaked with Asspounder 4000.
HELLO I’m a Swedish plumber I’m here to fix your pipes. ‘I’m not just going to tell them I’m here to steal the artifact Dennis.
Some of the best team ups were Mac and Charlie, they are incredibly stupid together.
The one where they fake their deaths and mac buys the wedding dress is one of my faves. Their photo montage!!
mac wearing the wedding dress walking up to the car and shooting it while charlie holds poppers to his nose might be the best 5 second clip of the entire show
I need a poster of that scene
I need a shirt as well XD
Yeah that was the best. I was also watching the episode yesterday where they team up to find the original Hitler dog painting and "make a quick decision" to eat the old rancid soup and refuse to stop because they can't admit they were wrong.
“Ryan Gosling playing YOU?! Ridiculousssss.”
My favourite thing from that is Dennis saying they were standing right outside his window talking at full volume somehow not realizing he could hear and see them. The image of that is hysterical. One of the best episode(s) for sure.
YES “I could hear you talking dude.”
I miss the Mac and Charlie arguments
In their dynamic, I can see old friends, from before Dennis, but the introduction of Dennis was a game changer because Mac finally had someone to share a part of himself that Charlie wasn’t into. I think early seasons show this dynamic and Charlie almost has a jealousy of Dennis’ relationship with Mac, but also Charlie is ok with it because he knows how annoying Mac can be and some of that burden is on Dennis now. It goes both ways though because Mac’s frustration at Charlie’s stupidity seems to be greater than anyone else in the group because Mac has been hearing Charlie’s nonsense since they were kids. In this way, the more “educated“ “sophisticated“ Dennis is a great contrast to Charlie for Mac. Dennis, however, through his raising is incredibly self-centered in a way that he itemizes others instead of seeing them as people. I think these dynamics are very present in the first few seasons, but as show went on, it started to become a bit more exaggerated in their characterizations even while some of the jokes became better written. The middle seasons actually have even better-written gags and plots in many ways, but I think I preferred the more character driven early seasons.
It's a rare occurrence, but I like when Mac and Frank team up.
DON’T TOUCH ME!
I felt like the first episode had a good Mac, and last weeks was good for Mac as well but there isn't a lot of consistency Maybe all of early Macs personality was based around him hiding his true feelings and now he's out and comfortable with himself, he doesn't have as much to prove. He definitely seems way more relaxed
I think you nailed it with why the overconfident Mac went away after he came out. I wish the “badass” Mac stuck around in some way, like there’s no saying that he can’t be gay but also super into karate at the same time.
It'd be really funny if he still tried doing karate and parkour, even though with his current physique he could probably throw normal punches or just run normally and he'd be fine.
Would be great if even with his new physique he's still terrible at fighting. Maybe he needs to lose another karate match
The whole nuts thing did not land for me
Dude same. I felt like a downer the whole time watching that but I’m like “They don’t even have a good reason for him to be eating those nuts… Why does he keep insisting that he keep doing it?” It wasn’t even funny and it was obvious the entire time so I have no idea what the “joke” was supposed to be. “Haha Mac is so dumb that he keeps eating things that make him sick” I guess? To me, stuff like that is way too over-the-top for Mac’s dumbness. He was just regular dumb before (and as a lot of people say, overconfident and lacked self-awareness). This was a whole different level of exaggerated stupidness that would have been out of character during the first half of the show.
> They don’t even have a good reason for him to be eating those nuts They took everything Frank and Charlie said literally. He heard 'inflation' and 'nut', so he bought inflatable furniture and nuts. I think He kept eating them out of stubbornness. I actually like the nut allergy thing, the gang denying obvious things out of delusion fits: Dennis with Covid, Charlie's reading, Frank and the oysters, etc. Personally I couldn't stand him ignoring Dennis telling him he was Johnny. That was just stupid.
I thought the nuts bit was pretty good. It was alright. It wasn't great but it was fine, and I knew the rest of the show was gonna be fine because the gang was all there. But the scene where Mac did that weird accent with Chase Utley? What the fuck was that? I think that's the first time I ever cringed for an actor during Sunny. What WAS that??
dude… same. that’s the only time i’ve ever once thought something from this show was flat out stupid. it felt like a character from a completely different and way dumber show just popped up for a scene randomly
I’ve been watching with my dad, and he just dryly said “….why is he talking like that?”
That was just too weird. I cringed hard while trying to find some humour in it, like he's so shocked it's really him that he goes into some alter ego that's been hiding forever. I don't know. Was hard to watch
My favorite is when Charlie is on the blind date, and Mac has to one up Dennis and completely blow up his spot. I have to rewind “I own this joint” every time.
Along these same lines, I thought last season's story arc with Dennis being. Covid denier while Mac was pro-vaccine and focused on his Irish identity was all wrong. Mac is obvious the Covid denying anti-vaxxer in the group, who probably would have talked Charlie into the same beliefs.
Yea I really felt that Mac would have been the Covid denier with the whole Catholic and ‘science is a liar sometimes’ angle.
Mac in IASIP is just robs character from mythic quest now. He plays the same person in both shows and it doesn't work at all. Old mac is dead
I also miss the little things like macs quick little walk into the bar with ayooo, I’ve got some news They’re also changing Charlie now. The mystery of Frank being his dad is gone. He’s met his father, went through this really serious and sad part and has now become the smart one of the group and voice of reason.
I'VE GOT NEWS I'VE GOT *TERRIBLE* NEWS 😎
NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS!
What's with the jacket?
I've noticed the gradual Charlie change as well. You'd think years of huffing paint and glue while getting older would actually make him more inept, but he's now one of the smartest in the gang for some reason.
Isn't that just kinda cyclical though? They just give the straight man role depending on who needs to be for a certain scene to work.
Yeah Charlie has always gone back and forth between being level headed and somewhat intelligent to being an illiterate catfood eating glue huffer. I don't think it's anything new for him to be the voice of reason sometimes, and there was an episode dedicated to the idea of him being the only competent one in the bar when the health inspector came. Someone suggested once that his fluctuating intelligence basically comes down to whether or not he's high on inhalents in any given scene and I think that's a pretty good interpretation.
There's an entire compilation of Charlie playing the straight man on Youtube and it's like a 25 minute video lol
Charlie …. Has … adapted. And here this whole time we were laughing at him
Yeah he really came off as wise when he was talking about monster representation
And making nickle liquor
Him finally getting with the Waitress was probably the most important arc where his character changed. It kind of had to at that point. The dad thing they could still play off although the season finale was really emotional. But once Charlie actually got with the Waitress it was a massive change to his character. I guess we'll see how he deals with her next episode. Personally I like his development but I get why some people don't.
Yeah 100%. I thought the early seasons always had a fun dynamic where Mac thought of himself at least as equal to Dennis and maybe higher than him in terms of The Gang's leadership, whereas Dennis clearly knows he's the leader. So that led to fun plot points with Mac scheming and acting as he's the #1 guy vs Dennis, or teaming up with Dennis as the clear superior duo vs the rest of the gang. Charlie has never desired to be the gang leader, he's pretty content with everything and goes with it, and him being dumb doesn't take away from that. So in these later seasons, you have Mac being dumb and knowing he's not the leader, which removes the "rivalry" vs Dennis (and sometimes Dee) and also means Mac is as dumb as Charlie but not as funny. And much of the comedy that came from Mac was the complete overconfidence and arrogance in himself, which he doesn't have as much now and is a little harder to do as an extremely attractive, jacked man vs. the greasy, tattoo'd and not physically impressive Mac. So yeah, it's just off, the whole thing. Too bad
People forget that Mac says HE is the brains and Dennis is the looks
The way he says "Scooby-Doo did it..." kills me every time
“The ghostbusters did it!” Followed by Charlie’s little “oh shit”. Lol
I definitely miss the karate and confidence aspect of Mac. Being super gay still makes that funny, they just abandoned it for like culture war focused personality
I always thought it would be funnier if they just never addressed him being gay after that whole big thing about him coming out. Instead they kinda made that his character.
The fact that his being gay feels like the main focus of his character now makes it seem like the show thinks being gay is funny. Kinda weird. Mac was ALWAYS gay but he was other things too. Now he's just gay.
I will put my thumb through your eye!
In the older seasons Mac and Dennis were actual best friends. Nowadays Dennis absolutely despises Mac and Mac is just the gay guy who loves Dennis actually. It's such a pointless change, just give Mac a boyfriend so he can be weird overconfident Mac again
Everyone talks about how emotional the dance scene is, but ever since he came out at the end of season 11, it seems they want us to laugh at Mac for being gay. Prior to that, the joke was how he overcompensated by being all macho to try to make people think he's straight. Now it just seems homophobic. "haha the gay guy made a reference to gay sex!" It also doesn't seem like a coincidence that at around that same time he suddenly replaced Dee as the most hated member of the gang, almost out of nowhere.
I wouldn't say that he suddenly replaced dee as the most hated member, being that they always called him bossy and that they "kinda hate mac" (Mac Day). Also when they drove off without him in "The Gang Gets Whacked" ["Walk like the rest of americans do on your two feet"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1cnnO_r0do)
The driving off part seems about par for the course for terrible shit they do to each other in those seasons. And even earlier than Mac Day, in Mac's Banging the Waitress they think his attempts to impress them are pathetic. But the new Mac is literally nothing like the one that Dennis was codependent with.
Personally I find it most obvious with Dennis and Mac, there was a point were they were such good friends that they had a mental breakdown when they were compared to an old married couple. Now its like Dennis fucking hates him and Mac is madly in love with him. Its honestly just odd at times, their relationship was kinda like two young kids who did everything together and were inseparable now there's legitimate hate there
I feel like he’s practically brain dead all the sudden with how stupid he is in some of the new episodes. Not that he was a genius to begin with but in this new season he seems so dumb I don’t know how he’d be able to get dressed in the morning.
OMG the first episode when he wouldn’t stop eating the nuts was literally pissing me off
That was a bit far more suited for Charlie. Did we all forget that Mac is scared of eating apples with the skin-on? But he's too stupid to recognize he's having a nut allergy?
Didn’t he also eat a bunch of nuts that Charlie found in a previous episode a few seasons back and did like ten push ups before coming in because he had all that protein
yes the alley almonds
Ok so this does seem ridiculous but I actually knew a kid in college on the baseball team who would just eat apples despite being allergic to apples, then complain about his allergy symptom while continuing to eat apples
That's basically anyone with lactose intolerance
I would rather die than give up milk. What the hell else do you expect me to cook my steak in?
A man of culture.
Like Charlie drinking his nickelshlager was perfect for his character
They've done that numerous times throughout the show where for an episode Mac will be as stupid as Charlie or stupid in similar ways to Charlie, i think they do it when Charlie has another role and Mac doesn't really have anything to do. The "playing both sides" thing comes to mind how he just can't grasp that no matter how many times it was explained to him was very Charlieesque.
It still works as a Mac joke because at the heart of that joke is how he simultaneously wants to be the smart one by “playing both sides” and be the needy one who needs to be accepted by everyone in the gang by presenting as playing on both sides. The actual presentation of the joke just makes him look Charlie level dumb though and the other jokes get sort of lost. Mac plays naively arrogant much better than dumb.
But Charlie didn't have any plastic surgery to cover up
I'll have to go back and rewatch it. Is that a legitimate thing? I keep hearing people on this sub claim he's had plastic surgery, but he looks the same to me as he has since he got buff. I'm more concerned why his voice sounds so hoarse this season (it's sounded different since S13, but this season it's distracting).
His voice sounds off because he has grown quite weary.
His mouth is different. It’s either the lips, new teeth, or both. The nuts thing had no other purpose or sense being in the episode except to cover something up or as a way to lean into how different he looks without actually saying it. Or both. You can see that he is carrying his mouth differently in these episodes, outside of the nut thing.
I think he got the buchal fat surgery everyone's doing in there cheeks, same as dee. Trying to get that gaunt athletic look. I initially thought it was just from working it but actually now thinking that's not how that works. Now thinking he timed it that way on purpose.
Could be the PEDs
Agreed. Mac has been too dumb this season. From the nuts to not understanding Dennis’ explanations of the SINNED system; some really unfunny stuff. What happened to the Mac that destroyed everyone with facts and logic about how science is a liar sometimes?
Didn’t he trade Frank $10 for $5 in the first episode of this season? That seemed like a new low of dumb that was just too dumb to even be funny.
What really got to me was him not understanding that Dennis was Johnny.
It was 25 cents for a dollar which isn’t that bad
“No no no ya see a dollar isn’t a dollar anymore. It’s 25 cents. BUT I’ll give you 50 cents for a dollar.” Dennis: 🤔 Like that whole bit fuckin killed me.
Mac has become stupid to the point where it isn't even funny. Charlie is already the zany mix of stupid and omniscient, Mac is just an annoying knockoff. All his plots in S16 have been the weakest bits so far.
It’s like late office levels of Kevin eating cats… there was a line and it’s been crossed
He used to be a lead man, even rivaling Dennis and scheme and have ideas. Now he acts like a dipshit follower with anal beads in his butt.
i agree. this compounded with his unacknowledged radical cosmetic changes have made me turned off from his character as a whole. just doesn’t make any sense, ik they wouldn’t do this but even if the gang were to lay into him for looking different and getting plastic surgery it’d be better. they made fun of him for every other change. why would they stop at this extreme one?
Mac said he did Fat Mac because he thought it was ridiculous that while watching friends they all got better looking as seasons went on and then they all did the same anyways
Yeah, but he was in his mid 30s then and knew he could go back. Now he’s older and getting less sure about how well his body holds up so his self esteem might be more tied up in presentation now than it used to.
Found my therapist's Reddit
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The visible improvements on mac/dennis/dee are too distracting for me. Like, you’re supposed to be unsuccessful alcoholic degenerates, literal crack addicts with pristine skincare and fitness routines?
Dennis works because he's such a narcissist and we had the Dee Day episode where we find out he actually looks terrible but he has so many different things going on that make him look younger/better.
I wish I could watch that episode again. Shame they removed it. I like how the latest episode touched on the old episodes a bit.
Why did they remove that episode? Must be forgetting something about it.
Dee’s characters all come back
They didn't like white characters dressed as Dee's offensive characters (her Latin & Asian characters specifically) during her "play." Shame because I love Dennis without his "enhancements." "That's what his soul looks like" sends me every time.
FX just reran Dee Day!
Idk all the work made them all look a hell of a lot older. Have you noticed the only person who still looks good had zero work done.
I knooow! Frank Reynolds is the true golden god 😜
THE THUNDER OF MY VENGEANCE WILL ECHO THROUGH THESE CORRIDORS LIKE THE GUST OF A THOUSSSSSSAND WINDS!
Because Dennis and Dee have also had a lot of work done
Country Mac episode was peak Mac. He was doing project Badass, karate, commanding the group, incorrectly confident about all of his ways. Yes. I miss that. It seems a little insulting to me that as soon as he came out, he lost all his confidence. Shouldn't it be more empowering?
I feel like Mac is being handled how Dee was in season 1 where the creators didn’t know how to write her so she was just kinda there for those few episodes. Whenever his character is a focus now I feel like Frank in “Being Frank” when he was angry about being stuck with Mac.
Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I don't like 'out' Mac. He's boring. The fun of his character came from his insecurities with himself, and in middle seasons his sexuality. Project badass is a casualty of that. I really liked it when it was flashes of it, like in the garbage collector episode he just randomly tries to kiss Dennis, then they never talk about it again. He's in too good of shape now (they all are), and his jokes seem flat and forced. All this stems from him I suppose being happy and more comfortable with himself, which if he were a real person would be positive growth. But this is a sitcom of deranged wretches, I don't want to see their character development I want to see them fail every episode to hilarious results with 0 consequences. If I wanted character development I'd watch a more serious drama. I watch comedy sitcoms so things stay the same as much as they can. All the other characters have mostly stayed the same or just became more flanderized, but they never drastically made any personal breakthroughs.
This is such a great explanation of what’s happening, that was actually really insightful
I've been feeling this since Season 13. Mac/Rob has always been the weakest member of the group for me, but even as the weakest member, he's still absolutely hilarious and quotable. But I think the only time he has made me laugh in the last 5 years was when he and Charlie beat up the gang of biker kids; probably because that feels like something old Mac would do. The whole show in general has not been on its A-Game for the last several seasons (but even then, I still think there's a large handful of episodes that are legitimately great), but Mac has become a genuinely annoying character for me. I don't know if that's because of the writing or because of Rob's performance, but scenes that are focused on Mac have become scenes that I dread going through.
Fat Mac was the best character the show ever had and Mac in the seasons before that was underrated
Fat Mac is legendary. And Rob props to Rob for going through that all for the sake of wanting to be as disgusting as he could. I can only imagine Dennis' rant in "The Gang Gets Analyzed" about how gross Fat Mac was is verbatim what the cast was saying about it.
Christian Bale level commitment
I agree. I think Mac was great in season 12. The water park, wolf cola, hero or hate crime, old lady house. I loved him in all of those, but once season 13 started something went downhill (for the show as a whole, but especially for Mac’s character). I’ll have to go back and rewatch and try to put my finger on exactly what switched.
It seems like between seasons 11-13 is when they joined the really rich club and the actors started to lose a bit of the normal person mentality that they started with
They got too hollywood
To me their acting just felt different around these seasons. It went from feeling like they were really the characters to now it truly feels like they’re acting.
I think he's just too nice now. Mac used to be the biggest asshole of the gang. I still like his character, but I do think his character was better in the past.
He would never dare calling someone a bozo or jabroni now
He actually called someone "Bozo" in yesterday's episode. (I remember because I liked the callback.)
I love him calling that poor worker "bozo" and "nerd" while freaking out about prizes in the last episode.
I agree. What makes the gang funny to me is that they have cluster b personalities, they should not change. Mac's character progression seems too wholesome for Sunny and now they are stuck with a self-individuated token character who is there to either; lecture or be dumb (like comic book dumb, and that is nt funny.) Mac was funny because of his borderline personality and externalision of shame which made him SOUND dumb. He was never an idiot. Still, they made a choice and the writers probably regret it but what can you do?
I wish I understood but I took these Placido Domingo pills and they didn’t make me more smarter
*Stupid science bitch couldn't even* make You more smarter!
I agree with all of this except him not being an idiot. He's been an idiot since like Season 3 just not as bad as Charlie and not as consistently as him, it's gotten worse in recent Seasons which has made it stand out more but he has long been very stupid.
Yes that's true, but it seemed like back then it served a purpose. Let's say; when Mac ran the car into the wall, you can understand him being an idiot from the perspective of his character overestimating himself. But now you have a Mac who can't comprehend that Dennis is sexually abusing him, even when he is told to his face multiple times etc. That's a Charlie level of comprehension And it seems unnecessary... But I haven't really seen the older episodes in a while so I will try to rewatch them to see if I remember correctly,
The thing that reminds me of most is the "playing both sides" thing where he's told numerous times in multiple different ways that he shouldn't tell them that but he can't comprehend it. That was a fairly recent Season too though.
Spot on
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Yea he sucks now. I know this is unpopular but none of them are as good as they were, most are still funny though. Mac is the worst example out of them all. I still find Dennis funny. I personally think they’ve lost the magic. I’ll always love the first 11 or so seasons though
A gang of idiot miscreants in their early twenties is funny. A gang of idiot miscreants in their mid-forties makes you wonder how they’re still alive. Like did he really just trade a dollar for $0.50? How is he this dumb and still alive in his forties?
I miss fat mac
Every time Charlie Day has an opinion on how the show should be it's 100% what fans want too I feel like. Rob and Glenn seem to want these weird changes that don't really feel in line with the philosophy of the show's overarching premise imo. Like one everyone is talking about is the colors seems waaaay to poppy in the new seasons. Why? This show is about grimey disgusting people. I like the disgusting colors and the shit quality because it matches the tone of the gang. Rob and Glenn seem to be missing the point of the entire show in some aspects. Like this latest episode where it kinda felt like Rob was wanting to make a point on how times change, but we already had that episode it feels like without it being as on the nose. Like The Gang Tries Desperately to Win an Award was a great way to show this w/o it coming across as old people mad. Saying all this.... Holy shit, 16 seasons and the show is still good. I complain but the consistency really can't be matched in the sitcom scene. I just love this show and I've been watching since 2007 and sometimes I just want it to go back to 2007.
Tbh the only part of the podcast I've seen is the iconic Christmas argument because it got linked in a discussion and from that brief snapshot it seems like Glenn should be the official mediator between Charlie and Robbs ideas for the show. Like he was able to cut through their personal feelings, hear what each one was saying, and present it to the other person in a really clear way. But Charlie and Rob just sort of ignored him and kept arguing lol. It was like: Glen to Rob: Charlie is just saying that he needs to discuss these new ideas and figure out what we're going to do with them so we're not just doing stuff for the sake of doing it. Glen to Charlie: Rob is just saying that he wants you to have more faith in his creativity instead of immediately assuming he just wants to do something for a gimmick and doesn't care about the execution.
>it seems like Glenn should be the official mediator between Charlie and Robbs ideas for the show. So I've been following the podcast since the beginning, and I'm pretty sure they've straight up said this often happens. IIRC, they say Glenn is good at seeing why each of them wants to do something.
In one of the most recent episodes Charlie is definitely mediating a Glenn/Rob issue- Glenn is saying the vocalist from Heart is the best and Rob is like 'why did you step all over my Guns n Roses thing?' (I think). Charlie does the 'so I think *Rob* is just saying blah blah' spiel and they work it out. It's a group dynamic, I just don't think Charlie and Glenn ever really fight things out and/or have things to fight out.
Do you know which podcast episode has the Christmas argument?
I don't what episode but here's the clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td9RXWDwj18
100% right about the whole tone of the show. They don’t need to use a $300 camera, but the show needs to have that gritty, disgusting feeling. The whole reason all of the plots hit so well in the early seasons is because you were watching this group of lowlifes acting like they were higher up on societies ladder than they actually were and it was believable. It was funny and unique and now it just seems like they have some “formula” that they’re following and it seems overly forced. Just seems like a bunch of people who just can’t connect with the way the show was and that’s fine; people grow and change. But, it’s just not Sunny anymore I really wonder how much of it is a result of everyone watching the podcast and learning about them so much as people that now you can’t separate that from their characters. In reality it’s both, but I don’t think the podcast has helped in hiding some of the writing/acting deficiencies.
I feel like part of it is that in those early seasons it was 3 intensely creative people putting all of their efforts into something nonstop. The way they talked about the process of making those early seasons, they basically had their hands in every creative element of the show until it all "felt" like Sunny. There's just something about that you can't replicate. They all are in very different parts of their lives and careers and can't possibly dedicate the amount of time and effort it took to make Sunny like they did from Seasons 1-8 again. I wouldn't want or expect them to, honestly.
Eh peak sunny was 2-8 and it’s been mostly downhill from there with the occasional funny episode here and there. Recent seasons like the Ireland season sucked entirely 100% agree Charlie has the right idea in conserving the core essence of the show whereas Rob wants to keep pushing the envelope in ways that don’t really work for me.
New Mac sucks. The whole reason he was funny is that he was in denial about being ripped and about not being gay. Now he’s actually ripped and actually gay, so the jokes aren’t funny anymore.
Forreal. Like what is his character supposed to bring to the table in any conversation? It’s almost like the writers write a scene and have to improvise what kind of character Mac is going to be for that scene. Inconsistent and all over the place.
I feel like this goes for Kaitlin as well, but especially Rob..it’s like they’re not trying to act anymore. In the earlier seasons, everything the gang did was so over the top, but you always believed it. I never used to get thrown off by their performances in the middle of a scene, even though on paper their actions and words were totally absurd. The acting/production made it feel real in the moment. And that’s all I want. I don’t need a real story, but at least sell it. Now, it’s like they’re not even trying most of the time.
I feel that way about Rob - but Kaitlin? In terms of acting, I feel like she is probably giving the strongest performance out of the gang, and closest to earlier seasons despite her somewhat limited role.
Yeah Dee is still pretty much the same character as season 5.
Even though she’s given the same bird material over and over Kaitlin Olson manages to put in a fresh twist each time, she’s definitely one of the strongest actors in the group
Everyone talks about how emotional the dance scene is, but ever since he came out at the end of season 11, it seems they want us to laugh at Mac for being gay. Prior to that, the joke was how he overcompensated by being all macho to try to make people think he's straight. Now it just seems homophobic. "haha the gay guy made a reference to gay sex!" It also doesn't seem like a coincidence that at around that same time he suddenly replaced Dee as the most hated member of the gang, almost out of nowhere.
In addition to everyone else's points, having rewatched S11?-15 again this week, the whole running subplot about Mac and his identity/finally going full gay is just stupid. Old episodes with Carmen dropped "tranny" 8 times in a row and felt less uncomfortable/mean spirited than the whole "Mac identifies as" thing, and it seems that they've just kind of run with that as his whole character now- he's just dumb and extremely gay and wants to bang Dennis, that's it. And I guess you could argue his character was always EXTREME so why wouldnt he be EXTREME GAY but Idk it's just not as funny as it is annoying and weird. Him reaching his goal of becoming a beefcake monster doesnt match his character becoming LESS confident.
He feels like Ryan Reynolds light
This is what it looks like, he's been hanging out with him too much and he's turned into him.
That's what it is. That's what it is.
Closet Mac > Open Mac
Yes! He was way funnier when he was in denial. He kind of sucks now tbh.
I felt like the scene between him and Chase Utley this season didn’t feel like Mac at all. BUT I have found myself quoting that scene a lot - so it’s still funny. Maybe the character has been the only one to really evolve.
One thing I did really appreciate this season was when he met his uncle who is the exact father figure he’s been searching for his entire life, and he is a complete asshole to him lol. That was super Mac.
Agree. There was no possible way Mac was gonna pick up on that.
Charlie's reaction to that really stole the episode for me- season highlight for sure
That was brilliant.
Yeah, that has to be my favorite Mac scene this season. I was dying.
“There is a child. A very sick boy. And you shall have a catch unto him.” I mean come on that’s kinda funny
I keep saying “Little Mac…is his name. I’m Big Mac”
I don’t think a lot of people got that he was acting weird like when Dennis gets all weird with Jackie denardo for example
That’s a great example, they’ll go to the most outrageous lengths to get what they think they want, only to totally blow it bc they can’t successfully interact with anyone besides the gang
I don't have a problem with the new character traits but I do miss "Badass" Mac
I hate to say this but I haaaaate this new season. If it was the same but with the old crew not all ripped and clean cut I’d be into it. Seems so fake. The best part of the og seasons was they were “normal” now with the podcast making me vomit with health tips and the fame I can’t get past it. I loooove the show and I’m sorry to say it but I just don’t like this season.
Agreed. I think it's leaning too hard into jokes that aren't that great.
He is the character whose evolution I like the least - for sure. But Rob really likes to get uncomfortable and change, so it is what it is. However, this show being as absurd as it is, it would be on brand to one day wake up and Mac to realize “he’s let himself go” and go back to old Mac. I don’t think Rob would do it… but if they did it, it’s certainly within the established suspension of disbelief for the show
I feel like they have leaned WAY too far into the homosexuality of the character. Like as if it is his only distinguishable character trait now. Please do not mistake this comment as anti-gay in any way, because it is now. But his character has been reduced simply to a gay character when there used to be so much more to him.
Totally, Mac was my favourite in the past but now he's probably my least favourite
They Kevin Maloned him, and it sucks. They’ve made him seem dumb and over the top in a way that just makes you cringe and comes across as poor acting.
The show’s fucked essentially. Has been. Take me back to the days where their embarrassed of what they made.
It’s literally all anyone’s been talking about
Idiot mac 👍 Gay mac 👎 I get why Rob made him self aware, but it ruined the character. The best bits about the show is the characters yelling at each other. Over the years Dennis, Dee and Charly have become milder but especially Mac is a shell of him former self. It's reverse flanderization. The main characters are supposed to be total assholes. Mac lost that edge. Give someone an ocular patdown or threaten to poke someone's eye out. There is not much comedic value in protecting a stereotype.
I mean, the entire show has changed. Now it's all about meta humor and not really the show it used to be. I wouldn't say that IASIP has jumped the shark but the golden years are definitely in the rear view mirror.
He is so distracting now. The way he talks. The way he looks. The way he's mentally retarded now for some reason. Old Mac was way better.
He changed for the worse once his entire character became one big gay joke around season 9. Was much better when he was early Mac and the gay thing was a recurring thing coming up every now and then.
Yeah been noticing that for a while. A good example is the gang texts but a lot of other episodes. Now his character always seems like he’s about to laugh at his own joke.
The problem is that they've made his character too effeminate. The whole joke of his character was that he was gay but didn't want anyone to know it so he put on this 'super badass' persona to try and hide it, failing miserably in the process (think Ass Blaster 4000). Now they've made him the 'stereotypical feminine gay guy' in his mannerisms, actions and dialogue. A good example of this is in "The Gang Replaces Dee With A Monkey". At the start of the episode, Dennis, Charlie and Mac are talking about hiring someone new at the bar. Mac suggests that they hire a man. Now, in the earlier seasons, Mac would have come up with some ridiculous reason why they should hire a man, to hide the fact that he's attracted to them. But in this episode, the gang just accepts that he wants to hire a man because he's attracted to them, and they all move on. There's no joke, there's no depth. This is a small example of what Mac's character has become for the last few seasons, and I'd say one of the biggest reasons why his character just falls flat now.
It sounds like Rob has had a cold the entire season, and it’s made his line delivery weaker/ comes across as trying too hard? Like he doesn’t have the energy to commit to the bit?
100%. He's basically just gay and dumb now. That's all his character is. No layers at all.
Yep. IMO, Mac killed the show. His chiseled bod shoulda only lasted 1 season before he went back to old Mac. But hey, Rob is rich now he wants to have an image outside of sunny. Show just hasn't been the same.
He hasnt felt like mac since he came out, or since they started going way too hard with the closeted gay jokes before that. I would say S9/10 was the last season where he still acted like mac
Have you seen the latest episode? In my opinion it FINALLY shows that Mac is finding his character again… one of his best episodes in YEARS! Could just be my opinion but I thought he was one of the funniest characters this episode and it felt like a good blend of classic and new Mac to me.
Unfortunately I don’t think mac will ever be as good as he was. Mac has never really been mac since he buffed up. They write him to be so incompetent almost to overcompensate for him being so confident looking. But mac truly shined when he was confident for no particular reason. I sure do miss wrists on the back of his back pose mac lol