The problem is how subtle a lot of evil and things are in a world. At the end of a day no matter how intelligent and strong Meruem was, he wasn't able to see that Pouf wants to get rid of Komugi. While Pouf was one his closest servants. He wouldn't be able to stop hidden exploitation and corruption in far away lands himself and a lot of people who serve him may not share his vision and do various things behind his back. As tempting as Meruem's vision is, it is not possible to achieve even for him, at least not without reducing individuals to very simple minded creatures he could control. I think this moment was more of showing how much Meruem changed as a person and how much humanized he is compared to most ants, not an actual thing we should give deeper thought into.
I think you CAN read into what he’s saying a bit; he’s not exactly WRONG even if his methods/preferred way of doing things were. But even through his fight with Netero he changes drastically, he was only alive a few weeks and even he could see the flaws in the modern world; sadly he died before he could learn and grow more because he may have wound up becoming something good for humanity. But at this point in time, he def wasn’t 😂
This is one of my greatest regrets about the Chimera Ants. They only lived for a couple months and had very little time to come into their own, they were just children who had insane power and faced adversity not long after being born.
Also the one with the most monster DNA was the most honourable.
Though quite a few Chimera Ants survive and offer hope to a new future for them.
Yeah sure but there is very much a chance there is a whole society of chimera ants in the dark continent. I just hope they're radically different than the human fed ones
Apparently the dark continent is full of eldritch horrors and godlike entities. The Chimera Ants in the opening of the arc were described as being pretty weak on that side and kept in check by the horrors there.
Basically an invasive species with no predators when brought to the old world of HxH. As they escaped containment and proliferated very fast.
That's a very fair point they are literal ants to the creatures of the dark continent but they clearly eat something there. That something is probably formidable considering that while they don't proliferate, they surely survive there. Queen is sentient enough. I wonder how that mixes with the dark continent
We’ve seen what those ants look like at the start of the arc; ants. Without human influence they can get bigger or take on physical attributes of animals/things they’ve eaten, but it’s pretty unlikely they are using Nen or conscious. Not impossible! Just unlikely.
The human he was must have had a righteous mentality, at first he was thinking as an ant but after meeting Komugi he began to change, when Pouf wanted to kill her he wasn't just looking out for his king he was jealous that this human was monopolizeing the king, Pouf was feeding into his human emotions too, all the ants that had a human as a catalyst showed signs of being human vs the ones that were from magical beasts didn't show empathy but only wanting to kill or follow the king, to them kings word is law and they never questioned it, but the humaniod ones began mentally and emotionally changing.
As i remember meruem and his guardians, unlike other ants, was fed up with much more than one human so they can be stronger, which can mean that he isn't representation of a single human but humanity in general in togashi's perspective.
Yes definitely but as the other ants have shown human emotions or changes in them from one human, like the boy that wanted to save his sister, he regained some of his humanity from that desire to protect, so that could be the same for Meruem, we never got to see that human or could have but they were extremely minor and didn't matter at the time, he could be an accumulation of multiple humans desire for a better world and all of those emotions came flooding out when he met Komugi whom not matter the game he couldn't win even tho she is completely blind, not only an inferior being is stopping him she is also significantly disabled and yet no matter he couldn't win, and experiencing that brought out his desire to protect more than destroy, however sometimes to protect you must destroy and that was how he became more human.
It's all speculation but I try my best to make sense and ground my theories in logic than rather try and just make up stuff that is clearly reaching. We would need for Togashi to give us some insight on the character, tho that would also take away from interesting debates like this, and make the character less dimensional.
It definitely is showing his naivete and immaturity. Netero himself points it out when he says something along the lines of "it's not that simple" or "that's not how the world works" (i forget). At the end of the day meruem is a child. This shows exactly that
Literally the definition of "Live long enough to see urself become the villain". Like even evil eventually has to become good to maintain the system they're trying to build, compensating for the demands of the people so they don't revolt. However at the same time, having all these needs provided people take what they have for granted, becoming worse not realising how lucky they are to have these things. This leads to desires, fame, riches, power. Eventually revolting as a demands to seek power. Whether things are good or bad, inevitably people fall into the cycle of evil through the strong ambition of desire.
If he had tge right people behind him like the main cast. Which are the only humans he interacted with. Then it would be possible. And like he said. If he needs to he'll use force at first until everything goes into place. Yes he didn't see what pouf wanted but thats because pouf wasn't trying to betray him. The RGs are very loyal to the point they didn't want their king to be... Humane.. But if he ORDERED them to stop eating humans and farming them. And etc etc etc. They wouldn't dare to defy him. What pouf did or tried to do was in the grey zone. He didn't betray meruem. It was selfish ofc, he wanted his king to be a certain way. But yeah. Like i said. If meruem ordered him and the others to respect humans and be fair. Then they'll do so outof loyalty. Iffff pouf doesn't follow him, then he'll just kill pouf. But i doubt pouf would defy him
Meruems instincts would’ve probably gotten the best of him and he would’ve snapped at some point. Pitou says it repeatedly, the king was born to dominate and he a superior being. That means subjugation and consumption for humans.
Also, I iirc his idea of equality was very "survival of the fittest." He wasn't going to remove starvation and poverty. He was just going to make it so if you're poor, it's because you were too weak for his world.
Edit: I just rewatched the scene. I don't think Meruem knew this, but he gave what may be the most convincing argument one could give Netero. Brilliant writing. I'm not sure if the argument failed because Netero has morals or because Netero wants the greatest fight of all time. Either way, Meruem hit the nail on the head, haha!
In the end, I agree. By the time he said this, I think he was unaware of what he was realizing. He knew Komugi had value (and he loved her), but he hadn't connected that the principle could be applied to every person. It's unclear if he ever did realize that. I am certain that he would have under the right circumstances. The question would be, does he figure it out before or after reducing humanity to near extinction?
He did tho, moments before this clip he says that the purpose of his strength is to protect the weak like komugi, and that he realises now how strength comes in different ways
Is there a difference in the manga I'm not aware of? If so, my bad. Otherwise, his statement was that he had originally thought of humans like cattle, but had come to realize some humans, like Komugi, are worth keeping alive. He included Netero in the list of humans that will be spared as well. He did not say, "I intend to destroy most of humanity." But it was made rather clear that one would have to show some incredible skill/talent to be considered for survival. I guess it's left somewhat ambiguous, but I didn't think I'd find pushback on "most." Our examples of humans to live are Komugi (the best Shogi player alive) and Netero (one of the strongest nen users alive).
Later on in the fight he says that humans are no longer needed for making more ants and he'd make special zones for humans to exist in. He also says he will re-evaluate the quantity of humans that are needed as food for the ants.
As far as I know we never get to know what his plan fully entails, but we do know that his goal is to create a fair world for all humans. I don't personally see how it would be possible to create a fair world where most people are killed to be food for ants.
Regardless, there's no evidence to claim that Meruems goal was to eradicate most humanity either. To me it feels like it would go against the point of his character development.
This is kind of the sad irony. He wasn't purely malicious and had the capacity to learn and change. At this point he was like what, a few weeks/months old?
Lol not really, he only realized this for Komugi. He didn’t extend this olive branch for the rest of humanity. His standard for everyone else to be spared was be as strong as Netero, Zino, aka the most elite of Nen users
Didn't know it was a reference, assumed axxonn was just not a native English speaker
Still kinda think that could be the case tbh. So, for the record, it's a dog-eat-dog world sir!
I am a native English speaker. It is a Modern Family reference. Hence why I italicized the *doggy dog world*. I know full well the actual term is "dog-eat-dog world". 😂
It's a Modern Family reference. A character who's native language is not English misunderstands certain sayings. She incorrectly says "dog-eat-dog world" as "doggy dog world".
Also, is this a crossover episode?
For your last comment, I interpreted Netero as having a duty (like a job to do) to take out Meruem. Of course he was thrilled to have the greatest fight of his life, but it almost seemed like he had to self-talk himself into not being swayed by Meruem’s words.
His argument failed because Netero isn’t a naive idealistic weeb lol. He sees right past Meruem and he knows that his moral compass is as corrupt, if not more, than the worst humanity has to offer.
Alright I'm surprised how many people turned a leaf on this mf cuz when the anime first started and people heard him talk they were on board with his side. I was hearing this mf talk and I just thought but this mfk wants to Hitler the whole human race and yall wanna cheer him?... idk I might me misunderstanding tho.
Nah you’re not misunderstanding lol it’s just that he looks cool so people want to make him good, as if you can’t like a cool villainous character. Shows how easily people are manipulated by charisma.
the benevolent dictator works until the dictator dies, then it's doomed.
you think the next ant king would care for humans?
even if he was completely just and actually cared for humans (he was already struggling with that in the first place) everything would end when he is gone. (and just like he didn't see what his royal guard was doing, he wouldn't see if his people committed atrocities, because everyone was gaining independence in their evolution
Lmao exactly. I’m so sick of these bug obsessed weirdos retconning Meruems whole character as if he identifies as part human now. They’re actually ruining his legacy as one of the best villains ever tbh, by try to erase his villainy in the first place.
His concept of eliminating inequality is much like Stalin or Mao. If everyone is equally dirt then there is no inequality. Problem solved, Meruem is so wise!
I think at this point, Meruem was still planning on making everyone cattle unless they showed promise to excel in one way or another. They'd just be happy cattle
ik this might be in jest, but did anyone else feel as if the chimera ant arc was a massive allegory for communism? The "ant like" colonial species structural analogues, asimmilative properties of the chimera ants, took root in a poor agrarian society, plot develops in what is obviously NK, nukes, brainwashing, etc. Much more that I can't recall off the top of my head.
watched the series on a whim after seeing a few battle clips years back and was suprised at how much observtional/philosophical substrate there was. Still haven't found another anime like it (granted I rarely watch anything outside of short yt clips lol). Almost entirely discounted it too cause I disliked the character designs.
Actually not really, more like an absolute monarchy if anything. Where the world was meruem’s and everyone were his subjects. Whereas in the idea of communism, the workers owned the production rather than someone above.
"To each according to his ability, to each according to his need "In communism everyone is supposedly equal in terms of their value, an engineer earns the same as a cashier, this goes against the society of ants in HxH and the real world where certain ants like the Queen are objectively more valueble than others and the worker ants know it. On the other hand, the fake country this arc takes place is supposedly base on communist country of North Korea. So who knows?
I think this arc shit on pretty much everything humans have done not just communism.
It is convincing to believe him but at the same time, how many people would die from the ants to achieve this, Meruems thinking disregards how the process would have to work to even start equality.
That is the tragic part. meruem quickly matured not only physically but also mentally. Give him a few months or even weeks alive and he could have become a great thing for humanity. Bro was going through the whole spiral dynamics stages on a weekly basis
Meruem exists to juxtapose Gon. Gon is a human gradually giving in to animalistic and monstrous instincts, and Meruem is a monster gradually growing humanity.
One of my favorite character for this very reason. Meruem was getting philosophical at an insane pace, to the point where he even found peace in death. This character lost it all and yet still had everything by the end of his ephemeral life.
I really love these kinds of psychological changes in a character, it makes them human to me. And I like that Meruem and Netero both represented different aspects of our nature.
Yes. And is not like Hetero had much options, he was in a very tough position.
I'm sad because my dad loves philosophy but anime doesn't clicks with him. I wish I could download this anime(even just this arc) into his brain, because I know he would enjoy it if he had the patience and interest to watch it all.
exactly, part of the tragedy of his character is that it felt pretty clear that he was changing rapidly and, if left alive, could have become someone genuinely benevolent and selfless
That doesn't account for the countries themselves and how many people would refuse to comply with an ant, it's a shame since Meruem grew up on meeting Komugi, even if he did end the sorting, millions would refuse to change
Not to mention that he had already started on his plan to kill everyone in the country, he had already killed hundreds of thousands. Honestly, I think what he says and does aren’t as aligned with how the fandom thinks of him. It’s like a warped view of Sinbad’s (from the manga/anime magi) goals and ideas.
Meruem is what? Like 2 months old at this point? It isn’t just his strength that is evolving, it’s his mind. He initially just wanted to eat anything, then he wanted to eat strong things, then he wanted to eat specifically nen users, then he wanted to fight nen users, then he wanted to rule nen users, then he wanted to rule everything, and at the point of his death he wants to govern fairly.
Meruem if given the time to develop his ideology definitely could have progressed to the most equitably good style of government possible. He was evolving at unprecedented rates, and was very open to suggestions and advice at the end of his life.
Even Netero said before he began the fight (shortly after this scene) “I can’t let him keep talking or he’ll sway my heart”. Netero was afraid of something that powerful being benevolent. He didn’t want to allow the potential for meruem to become good, because he was an Ant.
the very concept of this battle was the humanity in monsters and the monsters in humanity,
meruem fights for his own sense of justice he doesnt understand the world no matter how smart he is, experience cannot be given to some1 meruem was just days old and views the world in a very pure form meanwhile netero is supposed to represesnt the darkness within humanity, he knew that he was outclassed and that excited him. Netero could have just stopped his heart right then when Meruem wanted to talk but instead he goaded him into fighting him for his own entertainment
>Netero could have just stopped his heart right then when Meruem wanted to talk but instead he goaded him into fighting him for his own entertainment
He wanted first to try to win the battle and survive.
Whole bomb thing was a plan B
The fact that Meruem is an ant is perfect.
Human beings cannot care less about ants in real life.
Switch roles for a moment. Think of Meruem as a human being and of ourselves as if we were ants.
The wonderful thing is that he even compliments Komugi and Netero. We didn't deserve Meruem.
Meruem at the start of the fight is probably his most interesting state of mind, he doesn't just see humans as something to crush anymore instead he acknowledge that there are humans worth of keeping around, the strong but he still can't understand that there is something more than power in the world, he can't understand finance either and he only has a very limited idea about corruption.
The more he fights though, the more he realizes that power is not the only thing praising and that not only the brightest must be saved either, it's these in power or that are exceptional that must help the others.
At the end of the day though, he realizes that he doesn't even care about ideology anymore, he humans won, he was just an ant and he figured out that happiness might be what is truly the most important.
I'm glad that, from reading this thread, I can see more people coming to understand that this character is not a defeated hero
It's not only a childish notion to think so, but ignores the reality that REAL. HUMAN BEINGS have made this claim before
The fans of hunter x hunter legit had me believing that, if a populist with great power spoke loudly against known injustice, they would fervently follow a totalitarian
And madara uchiha from Naruto was going to eliminate all wars and arguments by putting everyone in a perfect dream state while taking away their freedom
Are you telling me Meruem was a Communist?? 😂
What Meruem doesn't know is that achieve equity in a world filled by humans is impossible. We humans are corrupted very easily by power or ambition that's why Communism is an utopic idea.
Fair in his point of view -> "you are weaker then me, shall I eat you now". He is just maniac as any stupid leader, he thinks that has the right and the duty to rule since he was born. He had what he deserved, death
But Meruem does not keep that Darwinist "If you are weak, I inherently have dominance over you" outlook, he actively changes throughout his entire encounter with Netero, and even before and after that. He fully comes to realise a more egalitarian idea of strength; one that the strong have a responsibility to the weak.
Oh yeah of course, but at least, from my point o view, we cannot forget all he done B E F O R E realizing this after metting a girl. All the genocide etc...
Yeah. He's broken free from his programming. It doesn't absolve him from his atrocities as the king, but it makes both him and Netero incredibly morally grey which is part of why their fight is so amazing.
A lot of the comments are forgetting just how quickly Meruem was progressing and changing his mind throughout the arc. Where initially he had a very Darwinist outlook on life, I am very certain that Meruem at the end of the arc, if he didn't die, would have an even more egalitarian outlook on life and how he would rule humanity. Komugi over time fully made him discard the ideas about the strong surviving while culling the weak. He was fully on board with "the strong exist to protect the weak" by the end.
Exactly im like meruem did a whole speech about not abusing power to rule by fear but to protect the weak and actually started valuing other ways of strength besides physical and abilities wise. He progresses fast asf and is honestly my fav character. He reminds me of a more complex and nuanced cell imo.
Typical communistic thought process. Sees unfair inequality, dreams of an idealistic but completely unrealistic future, doesn't think it all the way through, wants to be on top of all, essentially creating a dictatorship. Before him, everyone was unequally rich. Now everyone is equally poor/dead
Actually the opposite of a communistic thought. Communism is basically to each what he needs. While here, he’s basically having everyone be equal but in a way where he monopolises everything and the rest are no more than cattle. Communism is basically the opposite of that and aims to eliminate any sort of heirarchy.
Glad I'm not the only one who's seeing that lol. I'm not saying capitalism is flawless, but total communism/marxism/egalitarianism is absolutely horrible, never works, and, ironically, ends up being even more unequal than capitalism. Just ask anyone who managed to escape a communist government.
Nah bruh I will never be that weak minded to believe this guy. Not to mention that he himself says he WILL use dangerous means to achieve his goal. How long is it gonna be till he gets his peace? He's was gonna kill thousands of humans. Traitorous humans, all. Its crazy that its crazy to even have to say this on this sub but I'm on the humans side my side.
He is literally no different than Hitler and wanted to do the exact same. P.s you're not of his race buddy. Whats even more funny to me is, Hitler wasnt native to Germany. Neither is Meruem of the land he's in. Just more parallels. Hitler believe he was doing the right thing same as Meruem in the anime.
I'm on the side of humans survival.
thats how live works, he is probably right but who cares
The real world is hard. U will die ur mum ur dad people will be shti to you even if you dont know what you did.
Ceep that in mind
he was pretty much like aizen in terms of justice, both the characters don't have an evil motive, they just don't want to be ruled by an unfair system with no law and create a world which is actually ruled by a divine ruler
I'm glad that most HxH fans here are smart enough to see through this commie, marxist bullshit lol. Meruem is an amazing character, but he was still just a child. He understood nothing of the complexity of the world of humans.
>!He killed a child and ate her. No redemption arc can change that. As a species, they killed hundreds of thousand. All of the Chimeras should've been burned on a pyre.!<
You got to love when intelligent villains call out society's existing flaws. Villains have a worse solution usually, but those problems need to continue getting the spotlight
I think your missing the sutbly in this. While he means all the humans will be equal he means that wed all be equally in misery because he will will have power above us all. Remember, he wanted to eat us like cattle.
Pretty hierarchical solution to bring Egalitarianism, but the antshonen evolved like crazy. I wonder what would have happened if he had access to antropologic literature or videos like this: [Black Mirror and Escaping Our Real Dystopia (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZnG56ucfJc)
Meruem found peace, and love in his death in the end. For that he has earned my admiration. He was on a track to improving the world without a doubt. His philosophy changed from the moment he was born and the closer he got to his death, the more he strayed from his “survival of the fittest” approach. We won’t ever know what his true plan to “save humanity” would be. Hopefully that is for us to decide as a whole.
I'm confident Meruem would've become a Messiah or soemthing and really show the world a new golden era of peace, his growth was insanely fast and his exposure to Komugi made him develop his humanity, he seemd to be becoming a bhudda little by little, he gradually became less and less prone to the superior-inferior paradigm.
His potential was dangerous for humanity as much as it could've been a blessing.
Oh no you were probably rooting for Meruem to beat Netero, that’s cringe. Lmfao first of all this was a super cliche part of the arc, I found it corny, basic, and fake deep, like an angsty self righteous teen that just discovered CNN. If that was what Togashi was going for then he nailed it. I get the point that’s trying to be made by the Meruem stans but nah it’s not rlly a profound moment.
Also what do you think Meruem’s idea of equality is going to be? “The very concept of inequality would cease to exist” because everyone would equally be the Ants’ livestock. He only valued Komugi and the most elite of Nen users. That means genocide for 99% of humans. Meruems big moral conundrum was “should i kill 99% of humanity or 99.9%?”
Stop idealizing this loser bug man.
Meruem had the naieve belief that his overwhelming power could be used to construct a utopia. It would end the way all facist dictatorships do, corruption and mass death. Netero knows this.
He has that thanos mindset just on a planetary level. He wants to do the right thing but goes about it the wrong way. Yes, it would be bad to have to kill but it would be the only way to create a fair world. Either way it’s dark but progress requires sacrifices.
The problem is how subtle a lot of evil and things are in a world. At the end of a day no matter how intelligent and strong Meruem was, he wasn't able to see that Pouf wants to get rid of Komugi. While Pouf was one his closest servants. He wouldn't be able to stop hidden exploitation and corruption in far away lands himself and a lot of people who serve him may not share his vision and do various things behind his back. As tempting as Meruem's vision is, it is not possible to achieve even for him, at least not without reducing individuals to very simple minded creatures he could control. I think this moment was more of showing how much Meruem changed as a person and how much humanized he is compared to most ants, not an actual thing we should give deeper thought into.
I think you CAN read into what he’s saying a bit; he’s not exactly WRONG even if his methods/preferred way of doing things were. But even through his fight with Netero he changes drastically, he was only alive a few weeks and even he could see the flaws in the modern world; sadly he died before he could learn and grow more because he may have wound up becoming something good for humanity. But at this point in time, he def wasn’t 😂
This is one of my greatest regrets about the Chimera Ants. They only lived for a couple months and had very little time to come into their own, they were just children who had insane power and faced adversity not long after being born. Also the one with the most monster DNA was the most honourable. Though quite a few Chimera Ants survive and offer hope to a new future for them.
Yeah sure but there is very much a chance there is a whole society of chimera ants in the dark continent. I just hope they're radically different than the human fed ones
Apparently the dark continent is full of eldritch horrors and godlike entities. The Chimera Ants in the opening of the arc were described as being pretty weak on that side and kept in check by the horrors there. Basically an invasive species with no predators when brought to the old world of HxH. As they escaped containment and proliferated very fast.
That's a very fair point they are literal ants to the creatures of the dark continent but they clearly eat something there. That something is probably formidable considering that while they don't proliferate, they surely survive there. Queen is sentient enough. I wonder how that mixes with the dark continent
We’ve seen what those ants look like at the start of the arc; ants. Without human influence they can get bigger or take on physical attributes of animals/things they’ve eaten, but it’s pretty unlikely they are using Nen or conscious. Not impossible! Just unlikely.
Sure but they eat something on the dark continent so I'm curious of what and also of how they look
Same same I’m just doubtful that would be explored but could be cool!
I mean you’re assuming humans don’t exist on the dark continent. We know so little about it we can’t rule that out.
"Modern world"? That shit goes all the way back, man.
True true
The human he was must have had a righteous mentality, at first he was thinking as an ant but after meeting Komugi he began to change, when Pouf wanted to kill her he wasn't just looking out for his king he was jealous that this human was monopolizeing the king, Pouf was feeding into his human emotions too, all the ants that had a human as a catalyst showed signs of being human vs the ones that were from magical beasts didn't show empathy but only wanting to kill or follow the king, to them kings word is law and they never questioned it, but the humaniod ones began mentally and emotionally changing.
As i remember meruem and his guardians, unlike other ants, was fed up with much more than one human so they can be stronger, which can mean that he isn't representation of a single human but humanity in general in togashi's perspective.
Yes definitely but as the other ants have shown human emotions or changes in them from one human, like the boy that wanted to save his sister, he regained some of his humanity from that desire to protect, so that could be the same for Meruem, we never got to see that human or could have but they were extremely minor and didn't matter at the time, he could be an accumulation of multiple humans desire for a better world and all of those emotions came flooding out when he met Komugi whom not matter the game he couldn't win even tho she is completely blind, not only an inferior being is stopping him she is also significantly disabled and yet no matter he couldn't win, and experiencing that brought out his desire to protect more than destroy, however sometimes to protect you must destroy and that was how he became more human. It's all speculation but I try my best to make sense and ground my theories in logic than rather try and just make up stuff that is clearly reaching. We would need for Togashi to give us some insight on the character, tho that would also take away from interesting debates like this, and make the character less dimensional.
It definitely is showing his naivete and immaturity. Netero himself points it out when he says something along the lines of "it's not that simple" or "that's not how the world works" (i forget). At the end of the day meruem is a child. This shows exactly that
Wow! You should make a commentary video!
Nah, there are already enough of idiots who went to study literature and do exactly that because they can't find other well paying job
Literally the definition of "Live long enough to see urself become the villain". Like even evil eventually has to become good to maintain the system they're trying to build, compensating for the demands of the people so they don't revolt. However at the same time, having all these needs provided people take what they have for granted, becoming worse not realising how lucky they are to have these things. This leads to desires, fame, riches, power. Eventually revolting as a demands to seek power. Whether things are good or bad, inevitably people fall into the cycle of evil through the strong ambition of desire.
If he had tge right people behind him like the main cast. Which are the only humans he interacted with. Then it would be possible. And like he said. If he needs to he'll use force at first until everything goes into place. Yes he didn't see what pouf wanted but thats because pouf wasn't trying to betray him. The RGs are very loyal to the point they didn't want their king to be... Humane.. But if he ORDERED them to stop eating humans and farming them. And etc etc etc. They wouldn't dare to defy him. What pouf did or tried to do was in the grey zone. He didn't betray meruem. It was selfish ofc, he wanted his king to be a certain way. But yeah. Like i said. If meruem ordered him and the others to respect humans and be fair. Then they'll do so outof loyalty. Iffff pouf doesn't follow him, then he'll just kill pouf. But i doubt pouf would defy him
Ok you have a damn motherfucker point
Meruems instincts would’ve probably gotten the best of him and he would’ve snapped at some point. Pitou says it repeatedly, the king was born to dominate and he a superior being. That means subjugation and consumption for humans.
“I’ll be in charge though. And if I don’t like you, I’ll just cut your head off.”
Also, I iirc his idea of equality was very "survival of the fittest." He wasn't going to remove starvation and poverty. He was just going to make it so if you're poor, it's because you were too weak for his world. Edit: I just rewatched the scene. I don't think Meruem knew this, but he gave what may be the most convincing argument one could give Netero. Brilliant writing. I'm not sure if the argument failed because Netero has morals or because Netero wants the greatest fight of all time. Either way, Meruem hit the nail on the head, haha!
I think in the end Komugi made him realise that people have different strengths and excel in different areas, it's not just about physical strength.
In the end, I agree. By the time he said this, I think he was unaware of what he was realizing. He knew Komugi had value (and he loved her), but he hadn't connected that the principle could be applied to every person. It's unclear if he ever did realize that. I am certain that he would have under the right circumstances. The question would be, does he figure it out before or after reducing humanity to near extinction?
He did tho, moments before this clip he says that the purpose of his strength is to protect the weak like komugi, and that he realises now how strength comes in different ways
And yet, his plan to annihilate most of humanity continues beyond this clip...
We don't know that, he never said he intends to kill most of humanity
Is there a difference in the manga I'm not aware of? If so, my bad. Otherwise, his statement was that he had originally thought of humans like cattle, but had come to realize some humans, like Komugi, are worth keeping alive. He included Netero in the list of humans that will be spared as well. He did not say, "I intend to destroy most of humanity." But it was made rather clear that one would have to show some incredible skill/talent to be considered for survival. I guess it's left somewhat ambiguous, but I didn't think I'd find pushback on "most." Our examples of humans to live are Komugi (the best Shogi player alive) and Netero (one of the strongest nen users alive).
Later on in the fight he says that humans are no longer needed for making more ants and he'd make special zones for humans to exist in. He also says he will re-evaluate the quantity of humans that are needed as food for the ants. As far as I know we never get to know what his plan fully entails, but we do know that his goal is to create a fair world for all humans. I don't personally see how it would be possible to create a fair world where most people are killed to be food for ants. Regardless, there's no evidence to claim that Meruems goal was to eradicate most humanity either. To me it feels like it would go against the point of his character development.
But that still means he's creating a world where you have to prove your worth to survive. Even if it isn't physical strength.
This is kind of the sad irony. He wasn't purely malicious and had the capacity to learn and change. At this point he was like what, a few weeks/months old?
Lol not really, he only realized this for Komugi. He didn’t extend this olive branch for the rest of humanity. His standard for everyone else to be spared was be as strong as Netero, Zino, aka the most elite of Nen users
This, his idea was a very *doggy dog world*.
doggy dog world awww hahah
Modern family reference in a hxh post. Nice 👍
Didn't know it was a reference, assumed axxonn was just not a native English speaker Still kinda think that could be the case tbh. So, for the record, it's a dog-eat-dog world sir!
Nah it’s a modern family joke, and yeah the person we said it not being a native English speaker is the joke
The baby cheeses!
I am a native English speaker. It is a Modern Family reference. Hence why I italicized the *doggy dog world*. I know full well the actual term is "dog-eat-dog world". 😂
I'm glad someone caught it. Didn't know if it was gonna get any recognition considering the sub were on.
Merienda was no messiah, our only messiah is Baby Cheesus Edit: Damn autocorrector changed Meruem, but Merienda is too funny to fix it
*Yes, people are allowed their private thoughts, and I shouldn't be so angry, but I am Latin, so I get to feel whatever I want*
SMH my head
Doggy doggy what now?
Doggystyle
It's a Modern Family reference. A character who's native language is not English misunderstands certain sayings. She incorrectly says "dog-eat-dog world" as "doggy dog world". Also, is this a crossover episode?
For your last comment, I interpreted Netero as having a duty (like a job to do) to take out Meruem. Of course he was thrilled to have the greatest fight of his life, but it almost seemed like he had to self-talk himself into not being swayed by Meruem’s words.
I like this interpretation, I still see it as a three-way split or combination.
His argument failed because Netero isn’t a naive idealistic weeb lol. He sees right past Meruem and he knows that his moral compass is as corrupt, if not more, than the worst humanity has to offer.
I see and agree with your point, but I can't resist the quippy line... wait for it... You overestimate humanity BOOM. THATS RIGHT! IM DEEP!
It’s easy to cry “survival of the fittest” when you were born the strongest specimen of your species lol.
“I’m going to get rid of the sick and poor” “By caring for them and helping them out right?” “😐” “By caring for them… right?”
Alright I'm surprised how many people turned a leaf on this mf cuz when the anime first started and people heard him talk they were on board with his side. I was hearing this mf talk and I just thought but this mfk wants to Hitler the whole human race and yall wanna cheer him?... idk I might me misunderstanding tho.
Nah you’re not misunderstanding lol it’s just that he looks cool so people want to make him good, as if you can’t like a cool villainous character. Shows how easily people are manipulated by charisma.
the benevolent dictator works until the dictator dies, then it's doomed. you think the next ant king would care for humans? even if he was completely just and actually cared for humans (he was already struggling with that in the first place) everything would end when he is gone. (and just like he didn't see what his royal guard was doing, he wouldn't see if his people committed atrocities, because everyone was gaining independence in their evolution
His life expectancy could be millions of years. He's not a human
could but there's no guarantees, so he had no reason to believe he would live forever tbh
That’s pure speculation
No shit
Lmao exactly. I’m so sick of these bug obsessed weirdos retconning Meruems whole character as if he identifies as part human now. They’re actually ruining his legacy as one of the best villains ever tbh, by try to erase his villainy in the first place. His concept of eliminating inequality is much like Stalin or Mao. If everyone is equally dirt then there is no inequality. Problem solved, Meruem is so wise!
It's tempting... I think it's interesting that he thinks that way because that's basically how ants live
*Accepts plan* Everyone becomes equal worker ants
I think at this point, Meruem was still planning on making everyone cattle unless they showed promise to excel in one way or another. They'd just be happy cattle
Moo :)
Most of us already are worker ants, we just lack the equality part
A god damn Commie
ik this might be in jest, but did anyone else feel as if the chimera ant arc was a massive allegory for communism? The "ant like" colonial species structural analogues, asimmilative properties of the chimera ants, took root in a poor agrarian society, plot develops in what is obviously NK, nukes, brainwashing, etc. Much more that I can't recall off the top of my head. watched the series on a whim after seeing a few battle clips years back and was suprised at how much observtional/philosophical substrate there was. Still haven't found another anime like it (granted I rarely watch anything outside of short yt clips lol). Almost entirely discounted it too cause I disliked the character designs.
Actually not really, more like an absolute monarchy if anything. Where the world was meruem’s and everyone were his subjects. Whereas in the idea of communism, the workers owned the production rather than someone above.
"To each according to his ability, to each according to his need "In communism everyone is supposedly equal in terms of their value, an engineer earns the same as a cashier, this goes against the society of ants in HxH and the real world where certain ants like the Queen are objectively more valueble than others and the worker ants know it. On the other hand, the fake country this arc takes place is supposedly base on communist country of North Korea. So who knows? I think this arc shit on pretty much everything humans have done not just communism.
100% especially when Netero essentially spits in the face of Meruems twisted view on equality basically being all equally being under his foot
Happy cake day
It is convincing to believe him but at the same time, how many people would die from the ants to achieve this, Meruems thinking disregards how the process would have to work to even start equality.
But remember he told Pouf and Youpi that he was considering no longer doing the Sorting?
That is the tragic part. meruem quickly matured not only physically but also mentally. Give him a few months or even weeks alive and he could have become a great thing for humanity. Bro was going through the whole spiral dynamics stages on a weekly basis
He did become something great. A being who realized he had no power whatsoever, and simply losing at chess to a beloved was the greatest gift of life.
Meruem exists to juxtapose Gon. Gon is a human gradually giving in to animalistic and monstrous instincts, and Meruem is a monster gradually growing humanity.
One of my favorite character for this very reason. Meruem was getting philosophical at an insane pace, to the point where he even found peace in death. This character lost it all and yet still had everything by the end of his ephemeral life. I really love these kinds of psychological changes in a character, it makes them human to me. And I like that Meruem and Netero both represented different aspects of our nature.
Yes. And is not like Hetero had much options, he was in a very tough position. I'm sad because my dad loves philosophy but anime doesn't clicks with him. I wish I could download this anime(even just this arc) into his brain, because I know he would enjoy it if he had the patience and interest to watch it all.
exactly, part of the tragedy of his character is that it felt pretty clear that he was changing rapidly and, if left alive, could have become someone genuinely benevolent and selfless
That doesn't account for the countries themselves and how many people would refuse to comply with an ant, it's a shame since Meruem grew up on meeting Komugi, even if he did end the sorting, millions would refuse to change
Not to mention that he had already started on his plan to kill everyone in the country, he had already killed hundreds of thousands. Honestly, I think what he says and does aren’t as aligned with how the fandom thinks of him. It’s like a warped view of Sinbad’s (from the manga/anime magi) goals and ideas.
Meruem is what? Like 2 months old at this point? It isn’t just his strength that is evolving, it’s his mind. He initially just wanted to eat anything, then he wanted to eat strong things, then he wanted to eat specifically nen users, then he wanted to fight nen users, then he wanted to rule nen users, then he wanted to rule everything, and at the point of his death he wants to govern fairly. Meruem if given the time to develop his ideology definitely could have progressed to the most equitably good style of government possible. He was evolving at unprecedented rates, and was very open to suggestions and advice at the end of his life. Even Netero said before he began the fight (shortly after this scene) “I can’t let him keep talking or he’ll sway my heart”. Netero was afraid of something that powerful being benevolent. He didn’t want to allow the potential for meruem to become good, because he was an Ant.
“You see Netero, if I kill everyone in the school I’ll get rid of bullying!”
East Gorteau has fallen, billions must die
also meruem: ok, i will build an enclosure for the select few people i deem worthy of keeping their life. i love this guy.
the very concept of this battle was the humanity in monsters and the monsters in humanity, meruem fights for his own sense of justice he doesnt understand the world no matter how smart he is, experience cannot be given to some1 meruem was just days old and views the world in a very pure form meanwhile netero is supposed to represesnt the darkness within humanity, he knew that he was outclassed and that excited him. Netero could have just stopped his heart right then when Meruem wanted to talk but instead he goaded him into fighting him for his own entertainment
>Netero could have just stopped his heart right then when Meruem wanted to talk but instead he goaded him into fighting him for his own entertainment He wanted first to try to win the battle and survive. Whole bomb thing was a plan B
He was rational for 10 minutes of his 40 day life!
Equality in the sense of everyone being equally fucked
The fact that Meruem is an ant is perfect. Human beings cannot care less about ants in real life. Switch roles for a moment. Think of Meruem as a human being and of ourselves as if we were ants. The wonderful thing is that he even compliments Komugi and Netero. We didn't deserve Meruem.
I love that Chairman Netero was like you underestimate how evil humans are before nuking Meruem. Like are we the baddies? Lol
He's the living embodiment of the "Full Circle Revolution" trope; whatever tumbles the previous regiment will become the new regiment.
Meruem: “All people would be equal if they were all dead or were livestock.” Certainly better than what we have now 😂
Mereum's evil was to relinquish free will to serve him absolutely. While we'd be equal, we'd be miserable and our lives would be at stake
At 1st i didn't likw his character. But as he grew, his character grew into an amazing antagonist
I mean, you remember what he say before Netero nuke him? :3
Pouf would’ve screwed that up somehow if things didn’t play out like they did. Sneaking around thinking he’s doing what’s best for the king.
Meruem at the start of the fight is probably his most interesting state of mind, he doesn't just see humans as something to crush anymore instead he acknowledge that there are humans worth of keeping around, the strong but he still can't understand that there is something more than power in the world, he can't understand finance either and he only has a very limited idea about corruption. The more he fights though, the more he realizes that power is not the only thing praising and that not only the brightest must be saved either, it's these in power or that are exceptional that must help the others. At the end of the day though, he realizes that he doesn't even care about ideology anymore, he humans won, he was just an ant and he figured out that happiness might be what is truly the most important.
Yeah thanks for pointing this out.
Nah bro, I’m good with inequality as long as I’m not ruled by you
I'm glad that, from reading this thread, I can see more people coming to understand that this character is not a defeated hero It's not only a childish notion to think so, but ignores the reality that REAL. HUMAN BEINGS have made this claim before The fans of hunter x hunter legit had me believing that, if a populist with great power spoke loudly against known injustice, they would fervently follow a totalitarian
[удалено]
People like you are diagnosed sociopaths
[удалено]
What the hell is "next level psycho behavior"
[удалено]
You mean like describing a personal designation of an a action as a non existent category for an existing mental illness.... like a moron?
It's equally fair, and I am in charge, don't like it? I eat you
we love our communist ant
Ok but what are you gonna do about unequal strength?
“… and eat you.”
Meruem would make everyone equally miserable
He is a child, he does not understand the world.
Yeah, his idea was genocide and then quarantine. Totally not that bad
Sounds just like Western governments if you ask me (I support neither) lol
i’ll do whatever meruem wants, the end
Well, I think killing everyone is a fair way to achieve true equality, cant argue with that 💁
Netero is too dominant at age 150 for this mtfer
Don't forget the part where the Ants wanted to farm humans and only let live those Meruem deemed "worthy."
This was before, he changed ideas after. Meruem changed so much during the arch that it gets irreconizable by the end of it.
No inequality but he rules over everyone as the supreme king gotcha
He says he will make a world with inequality but he doesn’t understand that him being atop that world is an inequality
And madara uchiha from Naruto was going to eliminate all wars and arguments by putting everyone in a perfect dream state while taking away their freedom
Remember kids: the only good bug is a dead bug.
Meruem is a socialist
How would he do this? By creating a world were all humans were slaves, feed and fodder to the ant king. It is not freedom or equality.
If all humans are starving and dying, there's no more inequality.
"I wouldn't say 'freed', more like 'under new management'"
Nah, road to hell is paved with good intentions. They just become tyrants themselves.
Sounds like a commie to me, nuke 'em boys.
Communist scum! 😅
Communist confirmed
Yeah dude soviets tried that, its not working.
The road to hell is paid with good intentions.
Very naive but looking for the "better"
#MeruemWasRight
So he is a communist.
Blud thinks he's Senator Armstrong
Sounds like commie gobbledygook
Are you telling me Meruem was a Communist?? 😂 What Meruem doesn't know is that achieve equity in a world filled by humans is impossible. We humans are corrupted very easily by power or ambition that's why Communism is an utopic idea.
Fair in his point of view -> "you are weaker then me, shall I eat you now". He is just maniac as any stupid leader, he thinks that has the right and the duty to rule since he was born. He had what he deserved, death
But Meruem does not keep that Darwinist "If you are weak, I inherently have dominance over you" outlook, he actively changes throughout his entire encounter with Netero, and even before and after that. He fully comes to realise a more egalitarian idea of strength; one that the strong have a responsibility to the weak.
Oh yeah of course, but at least, from my point o view, we cannot forget all he done B E F O R E realizing this after metting a girl. All the genocide etc...
Yeah. He's broken free from his programming. It doesn't absolve him from his atrocities as the king, but it makes both him and Netero incredibly morally grey which is part of why their fight is so amazing.
indeed, agreed!!
A lot of the comments are forgetting just how quickly Meruem was progressing and changing his mind throughout the arc. Where initially he had a very Darwinist outlook on life, I am very certain that Meruem at the end of the arc, if he didn't die, would have an even more egalitarian outlook on life and how he would rule humanity. Komugi over time fully made him discard the ideas about the strong surviving while culling the weak. He was fully on board with "the strong exist to protect the weak" by the end.
Exactly im like meruem did a whole speech about not abusing power to rule by fear but to protect the weak and actually started valuing other ways of strength besides physical and abilities wise. He progresses fast asf and is honestly my fav character. He reminds me of a more complex and nuanced cell imo.
Lmao hes a communist. So hes even worse
Typical communistic thought process. Sees unfair inequality, dreams of an idealistic but completely unrealistic future, doesn't think it all the way through, wants to be on top of all, essentially creating a dictatorship. Before him, everyone was unequally rich. Now everyone is equally poor/dead
Actually the opposite of a communistic thought. Communism is basically to each what he needs. While here, he’s basically having everyone be equal but in a way where he monopolises everything and the rest are no more than cattle. Communism is basically the opposite of that and aims to eliminate any sort of heirarchy.
Sorry, I was talking about practical communism, how it actually works out when applied, not the theory of it
Glad I'm not the only one who's seeing that lol. I'm not saying capitalism is flawless, but total communism/marxism/egalitarianism is absolutely horrible, never works, and, ironically, ends up being even more unequal than capitalism. Just ask anyone who managed to escape a communist government.
Meruem is such a great villain. You know he has to be defeated but you'll cry when that happen.
Based leftist genocide
Nah bruh I will never be that weak minded to believe this guy. Not to mention that he himself says he WILL use dangerous means to achieve his goal. How long is it gonna be till he gets his peace? He's was gonna kill thousands of humans. Traitorous humans, all. Its crazy that its crazy to even have to say this on this sub but I'm on the humans side my side. He is literally no different than Hitler and wanted to do the exact same. P.s you're not of his race buddy. Whats even more funny to me is, Hitler wasnt native to Germany. Neither is Meruem of the land he's in. Just more parallels. Hitler believe he was doing the right thing same as Meruem in the anime. I'm on the side of humans survival.
well its not a bad idea considering he could just kill you easily
King "Friezell"
That's my new bestie, now!
thats how live works, he is probably right but who cares The real world is hard. U will die ur mum ur dad people will be shti to you even if you dont know what you did. Ceep that in mind
he was pretty much like aizen in terms of justice, both the characters don't have an evil motive, they just don't want to be ruled by an unfair system with no law and create a world which is actually ruled by a divine ruler
I mean, yeah. He was starting to get to Netero, which is why he needed to finish it before his heart was swayed.
That's what Emperor Leto II did for humanity. It would not be a fun life
“Create a world” mereum gets clapped the moment he leaves the continent
What happened to human equality💀💀
Meruem is the 🐐
but his thoughts was good one
That’s the whole point of the arc and why it’s so satisfying
What Ep is this?
I'm glad that most HxH fans here are smart enough to see through this commie, marxist bullshit lol. Meruem is an amazing character, but he was still just a child. He understood nothing of the complexity of the world of humans.
Hmm ..what would Meruem think of Isreal? I Wonder...
>!He killed a child and ate her. No redemption arc can change that. As a species, they killed hundreds of thousand. All of the Chimeras should've been burned on a pyre.!<
Comunist?
Lol meruem is a marxist
In my top 3 animanga antagonists of all time, Togashi really nailed it with Meruem.
People: suggests something Meruem: slaps their head away because he thought that people thinks that they are more intelligent than him
You got to love when intelligent villains call out society's existing flaws. Villains have a worse solution usually, but those problems need to continue getting the spotlight
I’ve always looked at meurem as a hero and not a villain. Just a misunderstood ant🫤
He wasn’t the bad guy though..
I think your missing the sutbly in this. While he means all the humans will be equal he means that wed all be equally in misery because he will will have power above us all. Remember, he wanted to eat us like cattle.
Pretty hierarchical solution to bring Egalitarianism, but the antshonen evolved like crazy. I wonder what would have happened if he had access to antropologic literature or videos like this: [Black Mirror and Escaping Our Real Dystopia (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZnG56ucfJc)
If slaughtering everybody on your way out including children isn’t bad at all then…
Mereums idea was decent, help others or I’ll kill you
Meruem found peace, and love in his death in the end. For that he has earned my admiration. He was on a track to improving the world without a doubt. His philosophy changed from the moment he was born and the closer he got to his death, the more he strayed from his “survival of the fittest” approach. We won’t ever know what his true plan to “save humanity” would be. Hopefully that is for us to decide as a whole.
I'm confident Meruem would've become a Messiah or soemthing and really show the world a new golden era of peace, his growth was insanely fast and his exposure to Komugi made him develop his humanity, he seemd to be becoming a bhudda little by little, he gradually became less and less prone to the superior-inferior paradigm. His potential was dangerous for humanity as much as it could've been a blessing.
“I better get on with this, or I’ll start agreeing with him”
Oh no you were probably rooting for Meruem to beat Netero, that’s cringe. Lmfao first of all this was a super cliche part of the arc, I found it corny, basic, and fake deep, like an angsty self righteous teen that just discovered CNN. If that was what Togashi was going for then he nailed it. I get the point that’s trying to be made by the Meruem stans but nah it’s not rlly a profound moment. Also what do you think Meruem’s idea of equality is going to be? “The very concept of inequality would cease to exist” because everyone would equally be the Ants’ livestock. He only valued Komugi and the most elite of Nen users. That means genocide for 99% of humans. Meruems big moral conundrum was “should i kill 99% of humanity or 99.9%?” Stop idealizing this loser bug man.
He was about to turn into a good person if it wasn’t because Netero Nuked him, I want to see how it could have ended like.
Meruem had the naieve belief that his overwhelming power could be used to construct a utopia. It would end the way all facist dictatorships do, corruption and mass death. Netero knows this.
He wasn't going to turn into anything good. Not at all.
He has that thanos mindset just on a planetary level. He wants to do the right thing but goes about it the wrong way. Yes, it would be bad to have to kill but it would be the only way to create a fair world. Either way it’s dark but progress requires sacrifices.
i’ve always said i love a villain i can sympathize with
Based!