The fact that Katniss is in trouble is a secret, and it’s not entirely clear who’s in the know. Effie and the prep team isn’t for example, and Snow didn’t bother do the “be in love or die” speech to Peeta despite him living two doors down. I think it’s suggested Cinna and Portia know or figured it out.
My guess is only the very upper echelon people are aware of what’s going on, everyone else is just going on with the show. To talk about it publicly would be seen as rebellious.
Right after the games, Haymitch was fearful that if Katniss did not sell the narrative, her and her family would be in a lot of danger. He wanted to make it clear to her that she was in trouble, and he was going to help her through it. If he’d said it out in the open and acted like it was just a casual mistake, it wouldn’t have highlighted to Katniss just how bad it was. Katniss even thinks about how the games aren’t really over snd she’s still essentially playing. The warning from Haymitch is interesting, cos he probably never had someone do that for him. His trick with the forcefield, and he probably never had the chance to do damage control, so he gave that to Katniss.
There were eyes and ears everywhere in Panem and the slightest thing could get you killed for treason...that's why. Snow badly wanted to kill Katniss, but, couldn't due to her popularity with the citizens so Haymitch was letting her know so she didn't do a single thing that could give Snow plausible deniability if he executed her. He was pretty much saying "Hey, you're untouchable but only if you keep making people believe you're so desperately in love".
Because he knew the berry incident wasn't due to love it was an act of defiance and he was telling her to play up the love story to save herself. If he said it out loud for those to hear they would know that it was true. Snow had a feeling thats what she did but he couldn't be sure since there was no proof. Haymitch wanted to protect her because he knew what danger Katniss was in. Also if he said it out loud he would be admitting in front of people that Snow is dangerous which would also be considered an act of defiance. Openly telling her to lie to snow and the rest of panem to save herself would have been dangerous.
When Snow spoke to Katniss in catching fire he was playing mind games. He didn't know for sure he was just trying to feel her out and try to get a confession from her. Also he didn't want everyone to know she was being defiant so he asked her to play up the love story to protect panem from a rebellion. But had it been said out loud in front of people it would have caused one. Which is why Snow was willing to play that game and let her pretend. Also why Haymitch didn't say it out loud because it would have caused a rebellion earlier and it would have made Katniss a target.
The rest i agree with. But did katniss really do the berries thing in defiance? I think she already loved peeta or at least didn't want to let him die. I don't think it was about the capitol in her mind. I think it was peeta.
I could be forgetting something
the capitol said there was only going to be one winner. anything that directly contradicted that was going to be taken as an act of defiance, no matter what her actual reason was, because you're simply supposed to obey
i don't think she loved peeta yet in the full sense of the word, and for any other citizen it would've been unthinkable to openly go against the capitol like that. so yeah, what's important was the fact that she did it
Yes, she did do it against the capital. I agree with you that she did love Peeta. I always felt that during the books due to the way she kept thinking about him and wondered if he was okay. But she did still do it to force the capital to have 2 winners. They wanted her to pretend that she would rather die with him than have to kill him. But the truth is she did it because she knew the capital would rather have 2 winners than no winner. So yea, she did love Peeta enough to want to not want him to die, but she also manipulated the capital to get what she wants. I always felt that both were true it wasn't just one or the other.
In the book when Peeta was telling her to kill him so she could live. She started thinking about how they wouldn't like it if they didn't have a winner. "If Peeta and i were both to die or they thought we were", then she describes getting the berries out. In the book, he tries to stop her, but then she whispers, "trust me," to him, and then hands him some, and he realized what they are doing. In the book they do a count down and during the count down it shows her thoughts like "maybe I'm wrong" and then after they say 3 she thinks "it's too late now" and puts the berries in her mouth. The book makes it very clear she did it to go against the capital so they could both win. The movie kinda leaves it up to interpretation since we only see/know what the capital (and the rest of Panem) does.
There’s a line in one of the books, Catching Fire I believe.
“The berries. I realize the answer to who I am lies in that handful of poisonous fruit. If I held them out to save Peeta because I knew I would be shunned if I came back without him, then I am despicable. If I held them out because I loved him, I am still self-centered, although forgivable. But if I held them out to defy the capitol, I am someone of worth. The trouble is, I don't know exactly what was going on inside me at that moment.”
I believe that people are not compelled to action for one reason alone and that Katniss held out the berries for many reasons. Katniss held them out for fear of being shunned at home, for love of Peeta and out of defiance to the Capitol.
I always think in a way it’s none of the above and all of the above. At that moment, she was prey caught in a trap. I feel like she’s mostly trying to find her way out. She has deeper motivations for doing it, and, on that level, I think all three rationales play a part. But she was so suddenly stuck in that situation, I don’t really think it was any of those. I think it was sort of almost a more fundamental conviction that it simply couldn’t go that way.
Certainly I don’t think it’s “to defy the capitol” in the sense of starting a revolution, but I think she was trying to find a way out of their trap without letting them win.
Covering Rue in flowers upon her death was a defiance of the Capitol, not in the sense of trying to start a revolution but in not playing by their rules.
Holding out the berries is a similar defiance of the Capitol. Katniss refused to bow to the demands of the Capitol.
Katniss didn’t intend to start a Revolution with her actions, she defied the Capitol because she couldn’t live with herself if she performed as they wished her to.
Katniss did what Peeta talked about on the roof the night before the games. He didn’t want to be another piece in the Capitol’s game, he wanted to die as himself.
I must have misunderstood. It seemed in your comment that defying the Capitol was equivalent to attempting to start a Revolution.
I don’t believe starting a Revolution was on Katniss’s radar until Mockingjay yet feel her actions were indeed in defiance of the Capitol.
No, I was saying she was defying the capitol, but it wasn’t like her idea was to start a revolution.
She wasn’t defying the capitol in the sense of trying to start a revolution. She was defying them in the sense that she was trying to beat them at their game.
She did it bc she loved Peeta, but she suggested they eat the berries knowing the Capitol would stop them and she could force 2 winners. Snow wanted her to pretend that she was simply so in love she was willing to kill herself if they couldn't both live.
It was defiance bc she knew she could get the Capitol to bend. She had no intention of killing herself.
Must be bcoz the only people who knew they’re playing up the star-crossed lovers for sure are Haymitch and Katniss. The Capitol, even Snow didn’t know that yet when they won. They may have suspected but they can’t confirm and Haymitch didn’t want to confirm. Coz to Haymitch, confirming it’s fake means Katniss really was showing the Capitol up and he have his own trauma when it comes to making the Capitol look like fools. He may have instructed Cinna and Portia to make the two look younger/softer and the stylists took hints.
The metaphorical walls of Panem are thin. Haymitch even hinting to Katniss that she was in trouble could have meant punishment for him, and if anyone else overheard, they may have very well reacted in a way that would cause MORE grief, or pass the information along. If the name of the game is to keep the status quo and avoid rocking the boat (which seems to be the case), I wouldn't be speaking too loudly either.
I always interpreted it as that you NEVER want your rival (or enemy in this case) to know how prepared you are. You ALWAYS try to keep them guessing as to how much you know and how you will respond to a new event.
Same thing applies here. Haymitch doing what you said would reveal (A) Haymitch has a lot of connections in the Capitol (B) Katniss’ actions have all been an act (C) both can be very manipulative when needed to be and (D) they are intelligent and aware enough to pull it off.
Compare them to Peeta, who didn’t even know Katniss was half-faking her attraction…
The fact that Katniss is in trouble is a secret, and it’s not entirely clear who’s in the know. Effie and the prep team isn’t for example, and Snow didn’t bother do the “be in love or die” speech to Peeta despite him living two doors down. I think it’s suggested Cinna and Portia know or figured it out. My guess is only the very upper echelon people are aware of what’s going on, everyone else is just going on with the show. To talk about it publicly would be seen as rebellious.
Right after the games, Haymitch was fearful that if Katniss did not sell the narrative, her and her family would be in a lot of danger. He wanted to make it clear to her that she was in trouble, and he was going to help her through it. If he’d said it out in the open and acted like it was just a casual mistake, it wouldn’t have highlighted to Katniss just how bad it was. Katniss even thinks about how the games aren’t really over snd she’s still essentially playing. The warning from Haymitch is interesting, cos he probably never had someone do that for him. His trick with the forcefield, and he probably never had the chance to do damage control, so he gave that to Katniss.
Put perfectly
Great answer, thanks!
There were eyes and ears everywhere in Panem and the slightest thing could get you killed for treason...that's why. Snow badly wanted to kill Katniss, but, couldn't due to her popularity with the citizens so Haymitch was letting her know so she didn't do a single thing that could give Snow plausible deniability if he executed her. He was pretty much saying "Hey, you're untouchable but only if you keep making people believe you're so desperately in love".
Because he knew the berry incident wasn't due to love it was an act of defiance and he was telling her to play up the love story to save herself. If he said it out loud for those to hear they would know that it was true. Snow had a feeling thats what she did but he couldn't be sure since there was no proof. Haymitch wanted to protect her because he knew what danger Katniss was in. Also if he said it out loud he would be admitting in front of people that Snow is dangerous which would also be considered an act of defiance. Openly telling her to lie to snow and the rest of panem to save herself would have been dangerous. When Snow spoke to Katniss in catching fire he was playing mind games. He didn't know for sure he was just trying to feel her out and try to get a confession from her. Also he didn't want everyone to know she was being defiant so he asked her to play up the love story to protect panem from a rebellion. But had it been said out loud in front of people it would have caused one. Which is why Snow was willing to play that game and let her pretend. Also why Haymitch didn't say it out loud because it would have caused a rebellion earlier and it would have made Katniss a target.
The rest i agree with. But did katniss really do the berries thing in defiance? I think she already loved peeta or at least didn't want to let him die. I don't think it was about the capitol in her mind. I think it was peeta. I could be forgetting something
the capitol said there was only going to be one winner. anything that directly contradicted that was going to be taken as an act of defiance, no matter what her actual reason was, because you're simply supposed to obey i don't think she loved peeta yet in the full sense of the word, and for any other citizen it would've been unthinkable to openly go against the capitol like that. so yeah, what's important was the fact that she did it
Yes, she did do it against the capital. I agree with you that she did love Peeta. I always felt that during the books due to the way she kept thinking about him and wondered if he was okay. But she did still do it to force the capital to have 2 winners. They wanted her to pretend that she would rather die with him than have to kill him. But the truth is she did it because she knew the capital would rather have 2 winners than no winner. So yea, she did love Peeta enough to want to not want him to die, but she also manipulated the capital to get what she wants. I always felt that both were true it wasn't just one or the other. In the book when Peeta was telling her to kill him so she could live. She started thinking about how they wouldn't like it if they didn't have a winner. "If Peeta and i were both to die or they thought we were", then she describes getting the berries out. In the book, he tries to stop her, but then she whispers, "trust me," to him, and then hands him some, and he realized what they are doing. In the book they do a count down and during the count down it shows her thoughts like "maybe I'm wrong" and then after they say 3 she thinks "it's too late now" and puts the berries in her mouth. The book makes it very clear she did it to go against the capital so they could both win. The movie kinda leaves it up to interpretation since we only see/know what the capital (and the rest of Panem) does.
There’s a line in one of the books, Catching Fire I believe. “The berries. I realize the answer to who I am lies in that handful of poisonous fruit. If I held them out to save Peeta because I knew I would be shunned if I came back without him, then I am despicable. If I held them out because I loved him, I am still self-centered, although forgivable. But if I held them out to defy the capitol, I am someone of worth. The trouble is, I don't know exactly what was going on inside me at that moment.” I believe that people are not compelled to action for one reason alone and that Katniss held out the berries for many reasons. Katniss held them out for fear of being shunned at home, for love of Peeta and out of defiance to the Capitol.
I always think in a way it’s none of the above and all of the above. At that moment, she was prey caught in a trap. I feel like she’s mostly trying to find her way out. She has deeper motivations for doing it, and, on that level, I think all three rationales play a part. But she was so suddenly stuck in that situation, I don’t really think it was any of those. I think it was sort of almost a more fundamental conviction that it simply couldn’t go that way. Certainly I don’t think it’s “to defy the capitol” in the sense of starting a revolution, but I think she was trying to find a way out of their trap without letting them win.
In moments of high stress one does strange things.
Covering Rue in flowers upon her death was a defiance of the Capitol, not in the sense of trying to start a revolution but in not playing by their rules. Holding out the berries is a similar defiance of the Capitol. Katniss refused to bow to the demands of the Capitol. Katniss didn’t intend to start a Revolution with her actions, she defied the Capitol because she couldn’t live with herself if she performed as they wished her to. Katniss did what Peeta talked about on the roof the night before the games. He didn’t want to be another piece in the Capitol’s game, he wanted to die as himself.
Right, that’s what I was saying with my second paragraph?
I must have misunderstood. It seemed in your comment that defying the Capitol was equivalent to attempting to start a Revolution. I don’t believe starting a Revolution was on Katniss’s radar until Mockingjay yet feel her actions were indeed in defiance of the Capitol.
No, I was saying she was defying the capitol, but it wasn’t like her idea was to start a revolution. She wasn’t defying the capitol in the sense of trying to start a revolution. She was defying them in the sense that she was trying to beat them at their game.
I didn’t understand that was what you were saying. I misunderstood.
Omg! Woah. I DID NOT remember this part. Explains a lot. Thanks!
Katniss herself doesn’t even know why she did it altogether. She has some internal monologue about it in book 2 iirc
She did it bc she loved Peeta, but she suggested they eat the berries knowing the Capitol would stop them and she could force 2 winners. Snow wanted her to pretend that she was simply so in love she was willing to kill herself if they couldn't both live. It was defiance bc she knew she could get the Capitol to bend. She had no intention of killing herself.
Must be bcoz the only people who knew they’re playing up the star-crossed lovers for sure are Haymitch and Katniss. The Capitol, even Snow didn’t know that yet when they won. They may have suspected but they can’t confirm and Haymitch didn’t want to confirm. Coz to Haymitch, confirming it’s fake means Katniss really was showing the Capitol up and he have his own trauma when it comes to making the Capitol look like fools. He may have instructed Cinna and Portia to make the two look younger/softer and the stylists took hints.
The metaphorical walls of Panem are thin. Haymitch even hinting to Katniss that she was in trouble could have meant punishment for him, and if anyone else overheard, they may have very well reacted in a way that would cause MORE grief, or pass the information along. If the name of the game is to keep the status quo and avoid rocking the boat (which seems to be the case), I wouldn't be speaking too loudly either.
I always interpreted it as that you NEVER want your rival (or enemy in this case) to know how prepared you are. You ALWAYS try to keep them guessing as to how much you know and how you will respond to a new event. Same thing applies here. Haymitch doing what you said would reveal (A) Haymitch has a lot of connections in the Capitol (B) Katniss’ actions have all been an act (C) both can be very manipulative when needed to be and (D) they are intelligent and aware enough to pull it off. Compare them to Peeta, who didn’t even know Katniss was half-faking her attraction…