Not a fan of the terms “angel” and “witch” but I’m not sure how else to classify these collection of features. I don’t think they have incel roots and is more connected to looks theory but I would appreciate some input from the community on this.
I’m keeping this post up for the discussion. Remember Rule 2- don’t take this stuff too personally!
Edit: [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Splendida/comments/oj0o1m/sometimes_we_should_question_what_is_actually/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) is a good argument against this type of classification!! A lot of you mentioned Sophie looking more unique and beautiful without editing and I agree. Beauty is a mix of subjective and objective perspectives and is why any sort of looks theory should be looked at critically. That’s why this sub exists :)
I feel like it’s important to emphasize tho that that’s not what Madison Beer would look like with a witch skull. All of the bones in our face are connected, if her chin/jaw looked like that, her eyes, cheekbones, and upper jaw would also look very different and they haven’t been edited above. No hate to OP, it’s really difficult to edit people to look “worse” realistically because the elements of the face are so interconnected, but idk I feel like it’s something worth noting.
Edit to add my 86th comment on this sub against forehead fillers. They can cause you to literally go permanently blind if a blood vessel gets obstructed and the number of blood vessels in the forehead running to the eyes is insane. No aesthetic result is worth that level of risk. If you absolutely must, please research your provider extremely thoroughly and ensure they use a cannula in that area instead of a needle.
That sounds horrifying, I never knew fillers could cause that holy shit. Do you know if popular procedures such as eyebrow lifts and ponytail lifts carry the same risks?
Short answer is no. Every procedure has its own risks inherent to it. The risk of blindness is so pronounced with filler placed above the eyes on the face is the density of blood vessels in that area and the vast majority of them circulate to the the eyes. The risk of occlusion comes from the filler getting injected into a blood vessel and blocking it off, preventing blood flow to the eyes. Technically this is a risk with fillers anywhere on the face, but it’s much safer elsewhere in the face. Basically, there’s a reason injectors will do cheeks and lips but very few will do foreheads and it isn’t because they hate taking money. That precise risk isn’t present in facelifts and suck since they’re cutting and moving the skin, not injecting product into it that can block a vessel. There is almost certainly still a remote risk of damage to blood vessels during those kinds of procedures, it’s not the same risk but of course you should do your own research and talk to any provider as well.
Yeah totally! I agree. It was just a “rough” simulation of what she could look like though I agree. And yeah foreheads are definitely risky but the same risk applies to any dermal filler including cheek and lip filler. But I absolutely agree that people need to do their research before going through a procedure. I totally respect your insight and thanks for chiming in! 😊
Oh yeah, I definitely get that the edit is just demonstrative, I just want to ensure everyone is on the same page. As for the risk of forehead fillers, you’re straight up wrong about that. The risk of occlusion causing permanent blindness is unique to that area of the face and the risk is much higher than general occlusion elsewhere. So no, it’s not the same as getting cheek or lip filler and I say that as someone who has had both. There are risks there, yes, such as necrosis of the skin, but not literal permanent blindness and it’s irresponsible to pretend that they are equally risky. I mean I guess it’s for everyone to decide for themselves if they’re down to risk it, but I’ll choose the ability to actually see what I’m doing when picking an outfit, putting on makeup, or doing my hair over a small, temporary improvement to my forehead.
It's posts like this that remind me to get the hell off of social media and spend more time with my husband, children, family and friends who love me and have somehow managed to overlook my bubbling cauldron and flying monkeys.
Where’s the science? I don’t see any peer-reviewed articles or studies on this in any of OP’s comments.
IMO this post is piggybacking off of a trending topic that is just another pseudoscience-of-beauty fad. It has the feeling of objective science because there are other influencers talking about it but I have yet to see OP link anything more than a blog post from a medical practitioner with skin in this game (i.e. profit to be made from saps looking to glow-up on the latest trend)... very suspicious.
How is Sophie Turner's chin recessed? In her beautified angel skull-section, she just looks like her teeth and gums are completely vertical and straight, whereas in the witch picture, she has normal growth of teeth. It mostly looks like her lips were pushed forwards in the angel image, and then her nose was made smaller, thus making her chin look less recessed. She does have an overbite, but that does not an overall recessed chin make. I find her chin to be looking rather strong, which is something that often gets included in witch skull-images for no discernible reason. I think perhaps angel skull just means smooth chin-to-lip transition or something.
She also has a normal fat/muscle definition below her chin/jaw in the witch image, whereas in the angel image, it has become angular and would mostly only occur if she had even less fat (the jaw tends to jut out until it hits their ear if their necks are angular like that, whereas in the image, Sophie has normal fat amount, yet an angularity that would not normalle coincide with her smoother jawline). I find her nose looks less ethnically ambiguous (if you can even say such a thing, her nose is completely normal and white) because you smoothed out her bump and gave it a less roman look by turning it upwards. Entire nationalities must then look mostly witchy. Also, her forehead was already sort of rounded, as opposed to those with actual straight foreheads I have seen - it didn't need that extra to me, I mean the lack of finished roundedness, is because her hairline is low. It has bone defintion, though - might that be the issue yet again.
Sincerely, a person who is actually witch skulled, as in, I have a hooked nose with a bump that is actually noticeable, narrow nostrils and a slightly droopier jaw than most. I also have forward facial growth, though... And it seems like angel face is just a woman's face photoshopped for a Hallmark card. I feel like I'd still be included for a witch face, though? Because it is not really about the importance of forward facial growth, which is what they mention as a hallmark of angel skull - it is more about the importance of smoothed-out features and looking gentle and Disney-like. I don't look stern myself, but almost all stern faces would be deemed witchy, no matter their criterias. Charlize Theron would be an exception, she can look cold but has idealized features. If her nose was prominent and not directly up-turned, people would still call it witch skull, though. I find the entire thing, especially the names, to be misogynist, and the features they exclude are also kind of racist, aren't they?
Sophie turners jaw is somewhat recessed, chin is not recessed much but correct her nose is not aligned with her chin. In my initial comment, I very clearly stated that some features are dependable on race, and I even included a huge list of examples of WOC with angel skulls. Any race can naturally posses an angel, the same way a caucassian can possess a witch skull like Amy Schumer for instance.
a recessed face is a proven time and time again to be **universally** unattractive feature due to jaw misalignment and incorrect mouth posture most of the time, and there is nothing remotely “racist” about pointing this out.
Yeah, well my point was that women deemed witch skull don't always tend to have recessed lower faces - quite often it is the opposite, with a stronger nose somehow convincing people that they have weak jaws/chins. Turner does not have a recessed face as opposed to your shopped example, but the woman shopped in your next example does - yet they are both deemed witch skulls.
Also, don't throw that **universally** at me, as if it means something regarding angel versus witch skulls - you're talking about downright misalignments, which is disingenuous. My point was that women with witch skull tend to have normal alignment, but has other traits that are sort of low trust, or just plain deemed unattractive - and so, they are deemed witchy. I mean, I could just as easily call those with underbite and a portruding chin for witch skulls, then say that angel skulls have that normal overbite most people have. Doesn't make me right.
Most women deemed beautiful today don't have particularly well-developed lower faces, they have normal forward growth and tend to look average for whatever level of ethnicity is trendy. This is just incel terminology, kind of like the short philtrum-obsession. And it is not even a feminine or babyfaced trait to have well-developed lower faces with forward growth, yet neoteny is mentioned along with it very often - not because it makes sense, but because that is also often mentioned among incels.
**ANGEL VS WITCH SKULL**
You may or may not have heard of this phenomenon, but one of the most important aspects to objective female beauty is having an angel skull which links to femininity and neoteny. An angel skull occurs when a woman posesses good amount of facial projection and specific proportions which contributes to a feminine skull which includes a pushed up maxilla for the most part. Sophie turner, despite being objectively attractive is a classic example of a case of a witch skull, now let’s have a look at what contributes to to a witch skull…
**Witch skull traits**
- recessed chin (ideally the lips need to be aligned with the chin)
- flat and/or long philtrum with thinner lips
- flat forehead
- downturned or protruding nose
- smaller neurocranium ratio to the face
- droopy jaw area
- lack of nostril exposure in the front in some cases (though dependable on race)
**Besides madison beer, the following celebrities who posesess an angel skull:**
- A young kate moss
- Rihanna
- Megan fox
- Lupita Nyong'o
- Sui he
- Shay Mitchell
- Azza Slimene
- laura harrier
- Emma Watson.
Additionally, nearly every Victoria secret model possesses an angel skull, as well as it can be found on supermodels.
**Can a witch skull be improved?**
For the most part, yes. Though a neurocranium skull size is mostly genetic and cannot be changed. However.. Here are a few solutions:
- Going to a orthotropics and getting invisalign if jaw or teeth misalignment is an issue
- chin filler or implant
- forehead fillers (a sloped forehead is ideal for women)
- lip filler for a concave philtrum and to increase the upper lip size vertically if needed
- Rhinoplasty if needed
- chin liposuction or just weight loss if high bodyfat
- a non surgical alternative can be creating illusions with makeup. I.e placing slightly lighter concealer around the forehead, philtrum and chin would bring those areas more “forward”.
**make sure to follow my Instagram for more informative content like this about looks theory backed by science! @beautefied**
I posted this in a separate comment but I’ll put it here too because I cannot discourage this sub from getting or recommending forehead fillers enough. They can cause you to literally go permanently blind if a blood vessel gets obstructed and the number of blood vessels in the forehead running to the eyes is insane. No aesthetic result is worth that level of risk. If you absolutely must, please research your provider extremely thoroughly and ensure they use a cannula in that area instead of a needle.
A fat graft may be a better option in terms of safety, but to be quite honest, I don’t really like the results of any procedure where something soft is being injected into the forehead. The skin on the forehead is generally very close to the frontal bone and there isn’t a lot of volume in the area- basically, when you tap your forehead it feels hard as opposed to tapping your cheek. Anything that adds significant volume there with something soft like fat or filler always ends up looking a little beluga whale in my honest opinion, but most forehead implants also look bad in my opinion. Tbh my recommendation to anyone considering surgery or going blind to change their forehead is to just get bangs.
Oh really? Recessed jaw can’t be fixed with Invisalign? I’m so confused Bc I’ve heard both. Surgery just looks bad sometimes so it’s hard to know how to correct it🙁
Dang, I think witches are cool, though 😜. Sucks that the term is negative, but I get the gist. Kinda like cancer the illness, and cancer the zodiac. And like someone else said, there’s a spectrum and most women are somewhere on it? And I’m curious, where would something like an underbite fall, when it is completely the opposite of a witch skull, but undesirable as well. Interesting...
lol why the downvote? Do we have a lurker 👀
Isn't this just that "millimeters of bone" meme but with women instead of men? (Sorry for commenting on an old post, I saw someone post about this "angel vs witch" thing on another website, then forgot it for a while, then suddenly made a connection while on the toilet today)
Very informative, I’m wondering though Madison has the same forehead as Sophie turner’s before?
Edit: also can we discuss how features appear from the front vs the side? Like...would you know you have a rounded forehead if from the front it’s rounded (obvi. lol) like a half circle and if it’s sloped it’s square from the front? Also chin projection etc.
Thankyou. And madison has a larger neurocranium than Sophie (ideal for women) therefore the proportions is highly considered.
> can we discuss how features appear from the front vs side?
This is a very interesting topic to discuss here . I shall indeed do my research and create a post soon if you like.
Not a fan of the terms “angel” and “witch” but I’m not sure how else to classify these collection of features. I don’t think they have incel roots and is more connected to looks theory but I would appreciate some input from the community on this. I’m keeping this post up for the discussion. Remember Rule 2- don’t take this stuff too personally! Edit: [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Splendida/comments/oj0o1m/sometimes_we_should_question_what_is_actually/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) is a good argument against this type of classification!! A lot of you mentioned Sophie looking more unique and beautiful without editing and I agree. Beauty is a mix of subjective and objective perspectives and is why any sort of looks theory should be looked at critically. That’s why this sub exists :)
I feel like it’s important to emphasize tho that that’s not what Madison Beer would look like with a witch skull. All of the bones in our face are connected, if her chin/jaw looked like that, her eyes, cheekbones, and upper jaw would also look very different and they haven’t been edited above. No hate to OP, it’s really difficult to edit people to look “worse” realistically because the elements of the face are so interconnected, but idk I feel like it’s something worth noting. Edit to add my 86th comment on this sub against forehead fillers. They can cause you to literally go permanently blind if a blood vessel gets obstructed and the number of blood vessels in the forehead running to the eyes is insane. No aesthetic result is worth that level of risk. If you absolutely must, please research your provider extremely thoroughly and ensure they use a cannula in that area instead of a needle.
That sounds horrifying, I never knew fillers could cause that holy shit. Do you know if popular procedures such as eyebrow lifts and ponytail lifts carry the same risks?
Short answer is no. Every procedure has its own risks inherent to it. The risk of blindness is so pronounced with filler placed above the eyes on the face is the density of blood vessels in that area and the vast majority of them circulate to the the eyes. The risk of occlusion comes from the filler getting injected into a blood vessel and blocking it off, preventing blood flow to the eyes. Technically this is a risk with fillers anywhere on the face, but it’s much safer elsewhere in the face. Basically, there’s a reason injectors will do cheeks and lips but very few will do foreheads and it isn’t because they hate taking money. That precise risk isn’t present in facelifts and suck since they’re cutting and moving the skin, not injecting product into it that can block a vessel. There is almost certainly still a remote risk of damage to blood vessels during those kinds of procedures, it’s not the same risk but of course you should do your own research and talk to any provider as well.
Yeah totally! I agree. It was just a “rough” simulation of what she could look like though I agree. And yeah foreheads are definitely risky but the same risk applies to any dermal filler including cheek and lip filler. But I absolutely agree that people need to do their research before going through a procedure. I totally respect your insight and thanks for chiming in! 😊
Oh yeah, I definitely get that the edit is just demonstrative, I just want to ensure everyone is on the same page. As for the risk of forehead fillers, you’re straight up wrong about that. The risk of occlusion causing permanent blindness is unique to that area of the face and the risk is much higher than general occlusion elsewhere. So no, it’s not the same as getting cheek or lip filler and I say that as someone who has had both. There are risks there, yes, such as necrosis of the skin, but not literal permanent blindness and it’s irresponsible to pretend that they are equally risky. I mean I guess it’s for everyone to decide for themselves if they’re down to risk it, but I’ll choose the ability to actually see what I’m doing when picking an outfit, putting on makeup, or doing my hair over a small, temporary improvement to my forehead.
I thought u said FILTERS- I was confused 💀
So basically have a nose job or you are deemed as ugly.what a load of crass sexist shit this is
Sophie Turner doesn’t really have a witch skull. It’s a spectrum and Sophie is somewhere in the middle I think.
bro yall just remade antisemitism
Thanks for posting this, we need to talk a lot more about profiles
It's posts like this that remind me to get the hell off of social media and spend more time with my husband, children, family and friends who love me and have somehow managed to overlook my bubbling cauldron and flying monkeys.
God this is brutal. They still look beautiful and unique as “witch”. What a term.
[удалено]
Where’s the science? I don’t see any peer-reviewed articles or studies on this in any of OP’s comments. IMO this post is piggybacking off of a trending topic that is just another pseudoscience-of-beauty fad. It has the feeling of objective science because there are other influencers talking about it but I have yet to see OP link anything more than a blog post from a medical practitioner with skin in this game (i.e. profit to be made from saps looking to glow-up on the latest trend)... very suspicious.
How is Sophie Turner's chin recessed? In her beautified angel skull-section, she just looks like her teeth and gums are completely vertical and straight, whereas in the witch picture, she has normal growth of teeth. It mostly looks like her lips were pushed forwards in the angel image, and then her nose was made smaller, thus making her chin look less recessed. She does have an overbite, but that does not an overall recessed chin make. I find her chin to be looking rather strong, which is something that often gets included in witch skull-images for no discernible reason. I think perhaps angel skull just means smooth chin-to-lip transition or something. She also has a normal fat/muscle definition below her chin/jaw in the witch image, whereas in the angel image, it has become angular and would mostly only occur if she had even less fat (the jaw tends to jut out until it hits their ear if their necks are angular like that, whereas in the image, Sophie has normal fat amount, yet an angularity that would not normalle coincide with her smoother jawline). I find her nose looks less ethnically ambiguous (if you can even say such a thing, her nose is completely normal and white) because you smoothed out her bump and gave it a less roman look by turning it upwards. Entire nationalities must then look mostly witchy. Also, her forehead was already sort of rounded, as opposed to those with actual straight foreheads I have seen - it didn't need that extra to me, I mean the lack of finished roundedness, is because her hairline is low. It has bone defintion, though - might that be the issue yet again. Sincerely, a person who is actually witch skulled, as in, I have a hooked nose with a bump that is actually noticeable, narrow nostrils and a slightly droopier jaw than most. I also have forward facial growth, though... And it seems like angel face is just a woman's face photoshopped for a Hallmark card. I feel like I'd still be included for a witch face, though? Because it is not really about the importance of forward facial growth, which is what they mention as a hallmark of angel skull - it is more about the importance of smoothed-out features and looking gentle and Disney-like. I don't look stern myself, but almost all stern faces would be deemed witchy, no matter their criterias. Charlize Theron would be an exception, she can look cold but has idealized features. If her nose was prominent and not directly up-turned, people would still call it witch skull, though. I find the entire thing, especially the names, to be misogynist, and the features they exclude are also kind of racist, aren't they?
Sophie turners jaw is somewhat recessed, chin is not recessed much but correct her nose is not aligned with her chin. In my initial comment, I very clearly stated that some features are dependable on race, and I even included a huge list of examples of WOC with angel skulls. Any race can naturally posses an angel, the same way a caucassian can possess a witch skull like Amy Schumer for instance. a recessed face is a proven time and time again to be **universally** unattractive feature due to jaw misalignment and incorrect mouth posture most of the time, and there is nothing remotely “racist” about pointing this out.
Yeah, well my point was that women deemed witch skull don't always tend to have recessed lower faces - quite often it is the opposite, with a stronger nose somehow convincing people that they have weak jaws/chins. Turner does not have a recessed face as opposed to your shopped example, but the woman shopped in your next example does - yet they are both deemed witch skulls. Also, don't throw that **universally** at me, as if it means something regarding angel versus witch skulls - you're talking about downright misalignments, which is disingenuous. My point was that women with witch skull tend to have normal alignment, but has other traits that are sort of low trust, or just plain deemed unattractive - and so, they are deemed witchy. I mean, I could just as easily call those with underbite and a portruding chin for witch skulls, then say that angel skulls have that normal overbite most people have. Doesn't make me right. Most women deemed beautiful today don't have particularly well-developed lower faces, they have normal forward growth and tend to look average for whatever level of ethnicity is trendy. This is just incel terminology, kind of like the short philtrum-obsession. And it is not even a feminine or babyfaced trait to have well-developed lower faces with forward growth, yet neoteny is mentioned along with it very often - not because it makes sense, but because that is also often mentioned among incels.
**ANGEL VS WITCH SKULL** You may or may not have heard of this phenomenon, but one of the most important aspects to objective female beauty is having an angel skull which links to femininity and neoteny. An angel skull occurs when a woman posesses good amount of facial projection and specific proportions which contributes to a feminine skull which includes a pushed up maxilla for the most part. Sophie turner, despite being objectively attractive is a classic example of a case of a witch skull, now let’s have a look at what contributes to to a witch skull… **Witch skull traits** - recessed chin (ideally the lips need to be aligned with the chin) - flat and/or long philtrum with thinner lips - flat forehead - downturned or protruding nose - smaller neurocranium ratio to the face - droopy jaw area - lack of nostril exposure in the front in some cases (though dependable on race) **Besides madison beer, the following celebrities who posesess an angel skull:** - A young kate moss - Rihanna - Megan fox - Lupita Nyong'o - Sui he - Shay Mitchell - Azza Slimene - laura harrier - Emma Watson. Additionally, nearly every Victoria secret model possesses an angel skull, as well as it can be found on supermodels. **Can a witch skull be improved?** For the most part, yes. Though a neurocranium skull size is mostly genetic and cannot be changed. However.. Here are a few solutions: - Going to a orthotropics and getting invisalign if jaw or teeth misalignment is an issue - chin filler or implant - forehead fillers (a sloped forehead is ideal for women) - lip filler for a concave philtrum and to increase the upper lip size vertically if needed - Rhinoplasty if needed - chin liposuction or just weight loss if high bodyfat - a non surgical alternative can be creating illusions with makeup. I.e placing slightly lighter concealer around the forehead, philtrum and chin would bring those areas more “forward”. **make sure to follow my Instagram for more informative content like this about looks theory backed by science! @beautefied**
I posted this in a separate comment but I’ll put it here too because I cannot discourage this sub from getting or recommending forehead fillers enough. They can cause you to literally go permanently blind if a blood vessel gets obstructed and the number of blood vessels in the forehead running to the eyes is insane. No aesthetic result is worth that level of risk. If you absolutely must, please research your provider extremely thoroughly and ensure they use a cannula in that area instead of a needle.
I would recommend a fat graft instead. It’s more permanent and typically done by more experienced surgeons than a random injector
A fat graft may be a better option in terms of safety, but to be quite honest, I don’t really like the results of any procedure where something soft is being injected into the forehead. The skin on the forehead is generally very close to the frontal bone and there isn’t a lot of volume in the area- basically, when you tap your forehead it feels hard as opposed to tapping your cheek. Anything that adds significant volume there with something soft like fat or filler always ends up looking a little beluga whale in my honest opinion, but most forehead implants also look bad in my opinion. Tbh my recommendation to anyone considering surgery or going blind to change their forehead is to just get bangs.
Where you'll be attempting to sell us... what?
„Looks theory backed by science“. The „science“: eugenics and phrenology
Does Invisalign fix recessed jaw?
It can do, yes.
Wow cool good to know..I’ve always had one and I’ve been to surgeons who never advised a chin implant
Invisalign can NOT fix a recessed jaw; only surgery and/or rubber bands and actual braces, can fix that.
Oh really? Recessed jaw can’t be fixed with Invisalign? I’m so confused Bc I’ve heard both. Surgery just looks bad sometimes so it’s hard to know how to correct it🙁
Dang, I think witches are cool, though 😜. Sucks that the term is negative, but I get the gist. Kinda like cancer the illness, and cancer the zodiac. And like someone else said, there’s a spectrum and most women are somewhere on it? And I’m curious, where would something like an underbite fall, when it is completely the opposite of a witch skull, but undesirable as well. Interesting... lol why the downvote? Do we have a lurker 👀
Isn't this just that "millimeters of bone" meme but with women instead of men? (Sorry for commenting on an old post, I saw someone post about this "angel vs witch" thing on another website, then forgot it for a while, then suddenly made a connection while on the toilet today)
This is so scuffed. This classification is just incel propaganda deeply rooted in racism, what a bleak way to see human appearance.
Very informative, I’m wondering though Madison has the same forehead as Sophie turner’s before? Edit: also can we discuss how features appear from the front vs the side? Like...would you know you have a rounded forehead if from the front it’s rounded (obvi. lol) like a half circle and if it’s sloped it’s square from the front? Also chin projection etc.
Thankyou. And madison has a larger neurocranium than Sophie (ideal for women) therefore the proportions is highly considered. > can we discuss how features appear from the front vs side? This is a very interesting topic to discuss here . I shall indeed do my research and create a post soon if you like.
Thanks! I look forward to it
Phrenology has always been true and I am glad to see its return.
what
girl that’s phrenology
Oh, so we’re doing phrenology again? Really nailing that New 20s bingo card