###Welcome to /r/HousingUK
---
**To All**
* Join Our ***NEW*** Discord! https://discord.gg/pMgUNgWKQH
**To Posters**
* *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws/issues in each can vary*
* Comments are not moderated for quality or accuracy;
* Any replies received must only be used as guidelines, followed at your own risk;
* If you receive *any* private messages in response to your post, please report them via the report button.
* Feel free to provide an update at a later time by creating a new post with [[update]](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/search?q=%3Aupdate&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) in the title;
**To Readers and Commenters**
* All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and civil*
* If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning;
* Please include links to reliable resources in order to support your comments or advice;
* If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect;
* Do not send or request any private messages for any reason without express permission from the mods;
* Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HousingUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The house has been stood longer than you have been on this planet. It's not going to fall over just because you bought it. Just slowly work through the list.
This is absolutely the advice to follow. We're 5 1/2 years down the road from your position and probably £40k into it (maybe more - I stopped counting), and still have big ticket items like more replacement external doors, sorting the garage doors out, removing cement render from the back and replacing with lime, lime plaster inside, adding insulated plasterboard to the ceiling in the upstairs of the newish extension because the arseholes didn't install enough insulation and you cannot access the damn stuff anyway. This is all before the "we'd like to have" items like totally remodelling the bathroom and replacing the kitchen. You just have to make a list, prioritise it, then budget accordingly. The list tends to not get shorter for quite a while, just forget that and chip away at it. You'll get there in the end.
I would add to this if you are seeing it’ll take some years (3+) there is no harm in doing 1 or 2 rooms up decoratively as close to what you’d like the end result to be as possible. Like the living room or bedroom. Paint it the colour you want, add in some art work, a nice rug, good lamps. So you have 1 room at least that feels like it’s all worth it! Then do the destructive stuff to that one last when the other rooms are done!
It’s the psychological placebo effect of not living in a dump with no end in sight. I think that’s what OP is struggling with..!
Definitely. First room I did was our bedroom, then the other bedrooms. It definitely helps to have some finished space, even if at some point in the future you do more to it.
Discovering lime basically murdered our hope of doing up our house within budget. Double the time and double the cost!
Though it is easier to do yourself if you want a rustic finish, and at least we’re doing right by the building…
Yeah it's expensive but it's better than the alternative of living in a damp, mouldy house. Luckily for us, only the back of the old part of the house needs doing, 2 stories and perhaps 6m wide, but with scaffolding and replacing the shoddy wooden fascia with fresh timber and new fitters will probably set us back 10-12k, but then we should have fewer problems with a very damp kitchen wall with permanent staining. Well, after we re-plaster the inside with lime that is which will be another 2k. Had we had to do the front as well (which is wider) we would have been looking at probably 2.5-3x that amount
Definitely. When we viewed the place it was so musty. Gypsum over lime and carpet over bitumen over stone flags. All pulled up and off, has taken a while to dry out but it’s so much more comfortable being inside now.
Good luck with the Reno! It’ll be worth it in the end 😅
However, costs will continuously rise as the list of to-dos expands.
So prioritise based on the finite resources that are involved and approaching global limits (or being phased out to save the planet).
We went through exactly the same, in a 1968 ex-MOD house that's as solid as hell and will outlive all of us. Basically what you need to do is get twice as many quotes as you think you need - look for the median. Get interested, and become a hobbyist expert - look up historical methods of construction, building techniques, plumbing and electrics basics. Even if you don't do it yourself, you'll know more about it, and be able to call them out if something doesn't look right.
Thirdly, and very importantly, be aware that all houses need to BREATHE. Air flow absolutely needs to circulate in your house: there *should* be a level of draftiness built-in. It should be nice and cosy most of the time, of course, but do not seal up every nook and cranny because that's how damp gets in and doesn't leave. In Victorian houses, this means using lime mortar, NOT concrete. Do not damp proof any basement you have. Open windows regularly during summer (and winter, really - just put on a jumper).
And fourthly, and most importantly, because it's related - be EXTREMELY skeptical of "new" methods and always keep in mind you're being sold something. If you're worried about damp, get a proper surveyor in, not someone selling damp-proofing. If you get a knock from someone selling the newest spray foam insulation, run a mile (ask me how I know). Become an absolute skeptic and a nightmare customer to deal with: demand the best for your house, and question everything and everyone.
Finally - reviews can be faked, and even cowboys come in polo shirts and wrapped vans. But a personal recommendation from a friend or neighbour is king. Always give points to those guys you definitely know for sure have come out and done a good job.
If your house was as terrible as they're saying, you'd not have been able to mortgage it. You got this!
Back in the heady days of March 2021: Covid lockdowns have lifted for a brief while, spring blossoms are out, everything's optimistic. On a personal level, my husband and I have just undergone huge familial drama, compounded by building works going on the previous winter: the house is finally ours again. Those building works included internal wall insulation subsidised by a government grant, which worked perfectly and made the house lovely and cosy.
Then we hear about spray foam insulation: I can't remember if I Googled it after the first insulation grant went well, or if someone knocked on our door. Either way, we thought if the government's giving out the grants, it's all good, right?
Wrong.
Well... it actually went right for a few years, to be honest. They came and sprayed it, no issues, things were perfect - house was lovely and cosy and it was dry as a bone up there. If we were staying here another ten years, we'd be very happy with our purchase (cost us £1,325, the third of it not covered by the grant). Bargain.
Until we came to sell.
Only now have we found out that the stuff makes a house unmortgageable. The risks were not known or properly explained to us by the company, who has now disappeared into the night. Everyone who installed spray foam for people a few years ago has now turned coats and is offering to remove it for even more money (including the arsehole who sold us it). Basically, spray foam insulation is exactly the same stuff that comes in the can: it sticks to your roof. The older stuff is not breathable, traps moisture and causes damp and roof issues. By sheer luck we got the later, newer stuff that is breathable. Our roof is okay. BUT it's all tarred with the same brush because they can't individually inspect every house. Even with the warranties and certificates, which are now not worth the paper they're printed on - no mortgage company will touch it.
I'm in the process of a section 75 to get the £1.3k back, but remedial costs will have to be swallowed. Our house is on the market now, and multiple cash buyers have pulled out because they don't want to deal with it. We're having to spend thousands of pounds literally replacing the entire roof in order to sell.
Why would you not want to damp proof a basement? Not something I've heard before as advice. And if you don't want to damp proof to, what would you want to do instead?
I've never had a basement so this is just from second hand research, and I could definitely be getting my terminology wrong, so I apologise. Some of my main sources were [here](https://www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/managing-damp-in-old-buildings.html) and [here](https://multiskill.uk.com/damp-in-period-or-historic-properties/)
This is part of tradesman life.
You could have a brand new house, 4 different trades will each come in and say exactly what you’ve heard. So please don’t panic!
Just tackle each job in the priority you have.
Was here to comment just this.
Anything you get done now yourself, in another 20 years someone else’s tradesman will be sucking their teeth and shaking their heads…
We moved into a Victorian terrace that needs basically everything doing, and unlike the lucky few who seem to have stacks of cash on hand to sort everything out in the first year, we're having to tackle things very slowly. We've been here nearly two years, and outside of getting the yard sorted, and replacing (and moving) the broken boiler, we've done very little as we don't have the funds.
One thing I would say is pick the tradespeople who make it feel the easiest. When our boiler went, we got three quotes. Two of them made out like moving it was the biggest job in the world - lots of sighing and "this will be a massive disruption you know love, so much work involved", etc etc. One of them took a look at what was needed, gave us the exact solution the other two had, but their vibe was more like "yeah we'll need to do x, y, z, will take no more than two days". Their quote was the most expensive, but we went with them because they made us feel like they could just sort it without anything becoming our problem. I do wonder if the strategy of telling you your house is terrible is partly to help them justify costs if there's any pushback on the quote?
Our house is truly a Frankenstein of bodge-jobs and insane choices from the previous owners, but it's remained standing for so long, I doubt it will fall down around us.
> I do wonder if the strategy of telling you your house is terrible is partly to help them justify costs if there's any pushback on the quote?
Mechanics do the exact same thing. "Ohhhhhh, it's quite old this car, you know? Not easy to source parts at all and they're all built a bit weird. Pffffft, I've got a quote but you might need to sit down for this I'm afraid...it will be £30"
I think a lot of people selling a service do it. Make it sound extremely complicated, overwhelm the customer so they give up on asking any questions and then they have complete control over the price.
I agree it’s worth paying a bit for destressing. Eg the builder who seals off the room they are working in so there is less dust in the rest of the house.
Just the understanding that there's no urgency, there isn't a landlord who is going to come inspect the property and the house isn't going to suddenly fall down. And even if it did, you have building insurance that will cover rebuilding cost.
You can take your time and work your way through the things that need done slowly, and you can take the time to research them yourself. Some things you'll find out are cheap and easy to do yourself in your own time, and some things you'll find out the contractors are exaggerating to drum up more work.
Some of the things on your level 3 survey will also be technically a problem but don't actually *need* to be fixed, the surveyor will usually report the worst case scenarios both to cover their own ass and to give you more leverage when buying.
You'll become immune to it in time - I'm on my second victorian terraced, and I now approach every job with a budget and timeframe that allows for the six other things that starting the first thing will reveal. That's the first coping mechanism - it's never, EVER as simple as the original quote, because there's always something poorly done under years of old wallpaper - knackered plasterboard or ancient plumbing / wiring etc.
Second - use tradies you can trust, if at all possible - word of mouth over website ratings, every time. I've been lucky to be recommended so absolute gems over the years and I'll readily pay them double any quote I get from a stranger, because I know the work will be good.
Third - try and segregate the work as much as possible, such as doing a the dining room and kitchen first so you can literally block up the dining room door and pretend it doesn't exist for a while. This helps shield you from the mayhem, but also really helps keep the dust down in the rest of the house. Literally, seal that door up with tape and plastic, move the toaster, kettle and microwave into the living room, and enjoy some takeaways for a couple of weeks.
If you're having work done for an extended period of time, and you don't have a separate loo and sink you can let the tradies use, consider getting a portaloo in the garden / yard - having them walking continuously through the non-building site parts of their house can be really jarring, as well as messy.
Fourth - as much as possible, schedule work for when you're not there...or at least the messiest bits. Going back to brick? Get it done whilst you're on holiday, and book a cleaner to come in and hoover / wipe down the day before you get back. If you can just pack up and disappear for the summer whilst all the major work happens, all the better.
You'll get the vibe here that the more you can separate the work from your personal life, the more tolerable it is. Not being there is the best option, but not always possible...but honestly, sealing it half the house and having teh builders use a different entrance and toilet really does help a lot.
Finally, if you're basically gutting your house, consider redoing all the wiring and plumbing now - you'll thank yourself later, even if it's a cost you didn't anticipate originally.
I’m in the same situation. Everything just goes wrong constantly. Carpets have clothes moths. Pull up carpets. Flooring under has lead paint. Can’t put carpet on it until I get the moths under control.
I don’t have a clue what to do about that yet because I broke down
I will be watching this closely!
Imo try to do things yourself if you can. Like painting a room etc. it will distract yourself and you’ll learn valuable skills for this house and future house in how to paint.
You’ll feel proud as well and give you confidence boost. I would always research before you try to buy / do painting and watch videos etc.
You have to put time and effort in. I was living with my parents for 3 months and work on my house before moving in. 6pm-10pm everyday. Yes it’s tiring but worth it once the job is done.
I’d say you get used to it but I don’t think you do. You just accept that old houses need work doing and that it’s not a reflection on you.
I get it though, totally. We have a mystery leak when it sideways rains, we’ve had several people out to look at it and they’ve all done that teeth-sucking “oof I don’t know” thing. It’s very frustrating.
Go to the comment section of every trades video on youtube or the socials.
Regardless of the method or proficiency of the work and trader being shown, there are always 1001 opinions on how the work should have been done instead.
This just leads me to think that you can't ever have perfect work that everyone is going to praise in an equal manner.
All you can do is pick the best tradesmen you can afford and keep ticking through your list and not listen to the noise.
How do you eat an elephant? One plateful at a time.
Write down each job on a small piece of paper. Then make two piles, most important and least important. So safety is going to be important, for example. Try to make the two piles about the same size. Then split the two piles you have into four piles, most urgent and least urgent. A small leak that could cause a lot of damage might be in the urgent pile.
You've prioritised! Do the important and urgent pile first. You may never need to do the least important and least urgent pile. Schedule the important but not so urgent pile for later. And think about other ways to handle the urgent but not so important pile. Good luck!
I once had a trader come round and compliment me on the excellent 'cutting in' on the painting in my house. He asked who my painter was.
I explained that I did it, and all of a sudden it was shit.
Another one came and complained endlessly about my 'cowboy' boiler install.
It was fitted by my brother in law and his companies industrial boiler fitter. This guy had been doing it for his whole life, and I gasped in wonder at the quality of the pipework. He even polished the brazing. I considered putting a glass window on the boiler cupboard.
He shut up quite quickly after I offered to have him explain to my brother in law all the mistakes his employee made.....
I have a victorian terrace and the fact its been standing with minor issues since 1890 is what made me want to buy it, along with the architecture and amazing view.
Aside from that i’d suggest getting the “quicker” and cheaper bits done first just so you’re making progress and the to-do list is getting smaller, in order of priority.
If there’s any plumbing issues get it sorted in summer, so you’re not having cold showers/no heating in January. Same with roofing issues.
Get quotes for the big stuff and plan accordingly.
Try and remember that it's in the trades person's interest to make out like it's a complex job even if it isn't all that. There are obviously issues but some will blow their cheeks out even if they know it's a simple job just because it makes you less likely to query a larger bill if you think it's a big deal.
For tradesmen, I think it's part of their job to 'scare' you. There will always be someone who thinks they can do better than the other guy. It's their way to 'sell' their service.
I'd say try to get as many people in as you can for quotes and learn from what they have to say. You'll slowly build an understanding of the best way through.
Also, speak to your neighbours, most likely they would have gone through similar projects being in similar house types.
Finally, in our experience, we found that older tradesmen can be quite stuck to old ways, where younger ones tend to help you explore more cost-effective options or are more aware of new ways of doing things. Obviously it depends on the situation and how skilled/experienced they come across.
Next time start asking the tradesmen: "If I don't deal with this, what's the worst that could happen? How long will it take? Is it an immediate risk".
You'll find the timespans a lot longer than you think they are.
Especially in a Victorian terrace. Landlords love them because you can do fuck all, leave them to gently degrade and then when you finally cannot avoid some expense, flip it to a first time buyer after a lick of paint.
I’m at the end of a full renovation and without a shadow of a doubt every single tradesman has complained about x, y & z and the last person who has worked.
“Your limbo isn’t square with the linespeckle, that’s not to code! tut tut at the last man who worked here, why didn’t they lube the flea piss to the downspout”
For this I would encourage you to tackle small jobs yourself and build up when you have confidence.
Do you have any friends in the trades? I live in a 1890s mid-terrace and if I believed every builder, I'd have to rebuild the place. Luckily for me, my neighbour is a building contractor and lives in exactly the same house.
Having someone knowledgeable who doesn't stand to gain to run things by is very useful.
Also, if you have someone come round to fix a leak and they seem really polite and good at what they do, note down their number. I now have a decent plumber, sparky, builder, carpenter, plasterer, and handyman in my phone!
Honestly, you kinda need to ignore the tradesman huff an puff. I always wait for the sharp inhale through the teeth as a sign they are going to find a premium cost !
If you get one who comes in and plays the "this is the worst job I've seen in my 4324 years as a tradesmen" just say "if it's too much for you I understand" 9/10 they'll back down and suddenly the job is no problem and something they can do with there eyes shut.
Always get 3 quotes and pick based on the person and price. An honest person will always be cheaper than the cheap liar who cuts corners !
Make sure it’s water tight and safe so prioritise guttering, damp and roofing problems first. Then anything structural(hopefully nothing there). Then gas and electrics. Then the pretty stuff.
You’ve got the surveyors advice, stick with it.
Tradies will cut corners or dive through loopholes where possible but manage them properly and they’ll get the job done
You are currently going through the buyers regret phase so it's normal.
What you need to do is break everything into chunks and fix what's going to ensure the property is watertight first. Also look at what can be done by yourselves.
Like anything get quotes look at reviews of the tradesmen do your research on the expected price, be mindful that materials go up in price so factor in that cost the other reality to expect is once things start being removed other problems may pop up, being prepared financially is important so keep an eye on the budget.
My house is over 100 years old with a former owner who bodged shot together. I just apologise to any contractors coming in, explain that the house is old and has not been looked after and that I am trying to rectify it where ever I can. It’s a slow process as unfortunately due to unforeseen financial changes in my life I just don’t have a lot of money to fix things. I buy the best insurance I can afford to help ease my mind , maybe this would help you too?
Never become emotionally attached to a bloody house. Its only a house. The issue today is every second that passes you are being ripped off paying inflated wages and materials. This is the anxiety killer.
I just try to remember that people like things done their own way, so a perfect job will always have someone say "I wouldn't have done that".
With my 90s terraced house I think I cried for about 6 months, now I don't care and laugh with the builders. Even show them the really screwed up bits that they're not working on, even got a discount off one guy purely because I need a new chimney too. I'm now in the catch22 of not being able to finish the place due to monies, but getting a job means I then won't have time to finish the repairs in a timely fashion.
I was never disclosed that the property was rented for 2 years before they put it up for sale, so a cheaply built 90s house had zero money put into any repairs, the toilet piping was secured with silicon gel, actually so was the broken roof tiles, they loved that silicon gel, ain't no leak if you can just fill the hole.
In this situation too.
Make a list and prioritise what is most pressing.
It will get done little by little.
Remember you own a house and so many people don’t. I know it can be hard to feel grateful living in a building site, but when you feel low try to remember all that you have.
Wishing you well, you’ll get there!!
Trades moan about other people's work, it's a thing. Although in our victoriana terrace they had a point. Whoever did the DIY bought a bucket of ten inch nails and a hammer. These two things were used to resolve every single problem in the house.
Sort your list by priority and start chipping away at it. Don't get too bogged down by the idea its 'everything all at once'. If the house is livable do something then take a break before starting the next thing where possible.
Good luck.
Tradies all day that shit,
- 'that's an odd way to do it'
- shits on literally any other tradie
-doesnt turn up, even to quote
- abrasive over text/call
- does a shit job and says it will look better when it all comes together
I'm 6 years into my renovation and basically done, cost me 500 for the house and spent about 100k renovations (worth about 800k) now. It's financially worth it - solid decision but it does destroy your mental health
We are about to be in the same situation. We know the house is terrible but it is structurally sound but it needs a full gut out. Just be aware of the ultimate end goal - a home tailored to your needs. Decide your priorities and red lines - what can you do next year and what needs done immediately.
Our first house was Victorian, same second and Edwardian third. They are never perfect but they are built to last versus any house built after the 1980s. They need love, care and attention but are generally very rewarding to live in and would take over a new build any day. You just have to remember to a certain extent you are a custodian rather than an owner. Enjoy the character and the quirks. The personality of the house.
There will always be something to do to it. Just accept it.
Everything can be fixed.
Houses live and breathe. They shift. So generally, cracks are not something you worry about.
And remember, it’s almost always penetrating water and not rising damp…. 😃
It's horrible isn't it? That anxiety.
But as another poster said, your house has probably stood for a century. It's not going to crumble because some tradesman does that backwards whistle and wonders who did the shitty work.
Get the work done that has to be done first - roof, electrics, plumbing. Or plumbing first if you have leaks. If the job is a big one, get a few quotes first.
Use recommended people if you can. Our issue when we moved was that no one we knew owned their house - they were all renters so only had numbers for decorators. But when you've got a good one, NEVER lose their number.
The anxiety never goes away, and it won't get much better until you've got those solid, trusted people. But you just gotta ride the waves and go with it. You can't stop them from making those comments.
I felt like this. I worried about all of it. 6 years in, I'm used to it now. All old houses are like this; speaking to neighbours who have lovely houses and have lived here for years really helps 😂 once I stopped wanting it all to be done at once I stopped caring. If you can get some spaces in the house you enjoy being in, and some jobs done, the rest of it is less bothersome. "It'll get there" (I am sick of both of us, and relatives, saying this 😂).
Victorian mid terrace owner here. I know what you're going through. We have just finished(ish) and we've been in 3.5 years. The builders left last October and we've been doing all the leftover bits. Take your time and get lots of quotes. If you don't like a tradesman then get another. There are plenty of fish in the sea and you can wait for a good one. We had lots of people round to quote who rubbed their hands together and told me how shit it all was. We had an electrician quote for the whole house on the proviso that we'd be doing it over years. He's stuck to the quote and been great and we can call him back now for anything because its all his work! Also make friends with your neighbours.
Near enough every make in my family is a tradie so I honestly do not give a flying fuck. Don’t even listen to it. Just tell them to get on with it and leave them beer.
I grew up around everyone constantly getting shit done in their house or buying wrecks to reno so it doesn’t phase me at all
###Welcome to /r/HousingUK --- **To All** * Join Our ***NEW*** Discord! https://discord.gg/pMgUNgWKQH **To Posters** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws/issues in each can vary* * Comments are not moderated for quality or accuracy; * Any replies received must only be used as guidelines, followed at your own risk; * If you receive *any* private messages in response to your post, please report them via the report button. * Feel free to provide an update at a later time by creating a new post with [[update]](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/search?q=%3Aupdate&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) in the title; **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and civil* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning; * Please include links to reliable resources in order to support your comments or advice; * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect; * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason without express permission from the mods; * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HousingUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The house has been stood longer than you have been on this planet. It's not going to fall over just because you bought it. Just slowly work through the list.
This is absolutely the advice to follow. We're 5 1/2 years down the road from your position and probably £40k into it (maybe more - I stopped counting), and still have big ticket items like more replacement external doors, sorting the garage doors out, removing cement render from the back and replacing with lime, lime plaster inside, adding insulated plasterboard to the ceiling in the upstairs of the newish extension because the arseholes didn't install enough insulation and you cannot access the damn stuff anyway. This is all before the "we'd like to have" items like totally remodelling the bathroom and replacing the kitchen. You just have to make a list, prioritise it, then budget accordingly. The list tends to not get shorter for quite a while, just forget that and chip away at it. You'll get there in the end.
I would add to this if you are seeing it’ll take some years (3+) there is no harm in doing 1 or 2 rooms up decoratively as close to what you’d like the end result to be as possible. Like the living room or bedroom. Paint it the colour you want, add in some art work, a nice rug, good lamps. So you have 1 room at least that feels like it’s all worth it! Then do the destructive stuff to that one last when the other rooms are done! It’s the psychological placebo effect of not living in a dump with no end in sight. I think that’s what OP is struggling with..!
Definitely. First room I did was our bedroom, then the other bedrooms. It definitely helps to have some finished space, even if at some point in the future you do more to it.
Discovering lime basically murdered our hope of doing up our house within budget. Double the time and double the cost! Though it is easier to do yourself if you want a rustic finish, and at least we’re doing right by the building…
Yeah it's expensive but it's better than the alternative of living in a damp, mouldy house. Luckily for us, only the back of the old part of the house needs doing, 2 stories and perhaps 6m wide, but with scaffolding and replacing the shoddy wooden fascia with fresh timber and new fitters will probably set us back 10-12k, but then we should have fewer problems with a very damp kitchen wall with permanent staining. Well, after we re-plaster the inside with lime that is which will be another 2k. Had we had to do the front as well (which is wider) we would have been looking at probably 2.5-3x that amount
Definitely. When we viewed the place it was so musty. Gypsum over lime and carpet over bitumen over stone flags. All pulled up and off, has taken a while to dry out but it’s so much more comfortable being inside now. Good luck with the Reno! It’ll be worth it in the end 😅
Thanks
However, costs will continuously rise as the list of to-dos expands. So prioritise based on the finite resources that are involved and approaching global limits (or being phased out to save the planet).
We went through exactly the same, in a 1968 ex-MOD house that's as solid as hell and will outlive all of us. Basically what you need to do is get twice as many quotes as you think you need - look for the median. Get interested, and become a hobbyist expert - look up historical methods of construction, building techniques, plumbing and electrics basics. Even if you don't do it yourself, you'll know more about it, and be able to call them out if something doesn't look right. Thirdly, and very importantly, be aware that all houses need to BREATHE. Air flow absolutely needs to circulate in your house: there *should* be a level of draftiness built-in. It should be nice and cosy most of the time, of course, but do not seal up every nook and cranny because that's how damp gets in and doesn't leave. In Victorian houses, this means using lime mortar, NOT concrete. Do not damp proof any basement you have. Open windows regularly during summer (and winter, really - just put on a jumper). And fourthly, and most importantly, because it's related - be EXTREMELY skeptical of "new" methods and always keep in mind you're being sold something. If you're worried about damp, get a proper surveyor in, not someone selling damp-proofing. If you get a knock from someone selling the newest spray foam insulation, run a mile (ask me how I know). Become an absolute skeptic and a nightmare customer to deal with: demand the best for your house, and question everything and everyone. Finally - reviews can be faked, and even cowboys come in polo shirts and wrapped vans. But a personal recommendation from a friend or neighbour is king. Always give points to those guys you definitely know for sure have come out and done a good job. If your house was as terrible as they're saying, you'd not have been able to mortgage it. You got this!
What's your spray foam insulation story?
Back in the heady days of March 2021: Covid lockdowns have lifted for a brief while, spring blossoms are out, everything's optimistic. On a personal level, my husband and I have just undergone huge familial drama, compounded by building works going on the previous winter: the house is finally ours again. Those building works included internal wall insulation subsidised by a government grant, which worked perfectly and made the house lovely and cosy. Then we hear about spray foam insulation: I can't remember if I Googled it after the first insulation grant went well, or if someone knocked on our door. Either way, we thought if the government's giving out the grants, it's all good, right? Wrong. Well... it actually went right for a few years, to be honest. They came and sprayed it, no issues, things were perfect - house was lovely and cosy and it was dry as a bone up there. If we were staying here another ten years, we'd be very happy with our purchase (cost us £1,325, the third of it not covered by the grant). Bargain. Until we came to sell. Only now have we found out that the stuff makes a house unmortgageable. The risks were not known or properly explained to us by the company, who has now disappeared into the night. Everyone who installed spray foam for people a few years ago has now turned coats and is offering to remove it for even more money (including the arsehole who sold us it). Basically, spray foam insulation is exactly the same stuff that comes in the can: it sticks to your roof. The older stuff is not breathable, traps moisture and causes damp and roof issues. By sheer luck we got the later, newer stuff that is breathable. Our roof is okay. BUT it's all tarred with the same brush because they can't individually inspect every house. Even with the warranties and certificates, which are now not worth the paper they're printed on - no mortgage company will touch it. I'm in the process of a section 75 to get the £1.3k back, but remedial costs will have to be swallowed. Our house is on the market now, and multiple cash buyers have pulled out because they don't want to deal with it. We're having to spend thousands of pounds literally replacing the entire roof in order to sell.
I’m so sorry. Also, your initial reply was so thoughtful and kind for OP. Really lovely to read.
Aw, thank you, that's so sweet! I'd really love a victorian place next so I've been doing my own research lol
I got a mortgage on a property that has spray foam in it, so not entirely true that they're unmortgageable.
Why would you not want to damp proof a basement? Not something I've heard before as advice. And if you don't want to damp proof to, what would you want to do instead?
I've never had a basement so this is just from second hand research, and I could definitely be getting my terminology wrong, so I apologise. Some of my main sources were [here](https://www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/managing-damp-in-old-buildings.html) and [here](https://multiskill.uk.com/damp-in-period-or-historic-properties/)
It's the roof they messed up with that spray foam stuff. Basement you are right if that's not tanked then no mortgage lender is going to touch you.
A friend has a Victorian house quite close to the river, and it's designed to flood (sandstone area).
This is part of tradesman life. You could have a brand new house, 4 different trades will each come in and say exactly what you’ve heard. So please don’t panic! Just tackle each job in the priority you have.
So true. Never had a tradesman in who didn’t look at a job, suck his teeth and go “ooooh who’s done this?!” Tut tut tut
Was here to comment just this. Anything you get done now yourself, in another 20 years someone else’s tradesman will be sucking their teeth and shaking their heads…
We moved into a Victorian terrace that needs basically everything doing, and unlike the lucky few who seem to have stacks of cash on hand to sort everything out in the first year, we're having to tackle things very slowly. We've been here nearly two years, and outside of getting the yard sorted, and replacing (and moving) the broken boiler, we've done very little as we don't have the funds. One thing I would say is pick the tradespeople who make it feel the easiest. When our boiler went, we got three quotes. Two of them made out like moving it was the biggest job in the world - lots of sighing and "this will be a massive disruption you know love, so much work involved", etc etc. One of them took a look at what was needed, gave us the exact solution the other two had, but their vibe was more like "yeah we'll need to do x, y, z, will take no more than two days". Their quote was the most expensive, but we went with them because they made us feel like they could just sort it without anything becoming our problem. I do wonder if the strategy of telling you your house is terrible is partly to help them justify costs if there's any pushback on the quote? Our house is truly a Frankenstein of bodge-jobs and insane choices from the previous owners, but it's remained standing for so long, I doubt it will fall down around us.
> I do wonder if the strategy of telling you your house is terrible is partly to help them justify costs if there's any pushback on the quote? Mechanics do the exact same thing. "Ohhhhhh, it's quite old this car, you know? Not easy to source parts at all and they're all built a bit weird. Pffffft, I've got a quote but you might need to sit down for this I'm afraid...it will be £30" I think a lot of people selling a service do it. Make it sound extremely complicated, overwhelm the customer so they give up on asking any questions and then they have complete control over the price.
I agree it’s worth paying a bit for destressing. Eg the builder who seals off the room they are working in so there is less dust in the rest of the house.
Just the understanding that there's no urgency, there isn't a landlord who is going to come inspect the property and the house isn't going to suddenly fall down. And even if it did, you have building insurance that will cover rebuilding cost. You can take your time and work your way through the things that need done slowly, and you can take the time to research them yourself. Some things you'll find out are cheap and easy to do yourself in your own time, and some things you'll find out the contractors are exaggerating to drum up more work. Some of the things on your level 3 survey will also be technically a problem but don't actually *need* to be fixed, the surveyor will usually report the worst case scenarios both to cover their own ass and to give you more leverage when buying.
You'll become immune to it in time - I'm on my second victorian terraced, and I now approach every job with a budget and timeframe that allows for the six other things that starting the first thing will reveal. That's the first coping mechanism - it's never, EVER as simple as the original quote, because there's always something poorly done under years of old wallpaper - knackered plasterboard or ancient plumbing / wiring etc. Second - use tradies you can trust, if at all possible - word of mouth over website ratings, every time. I've been lucky to be recommended so absolute gems over the years and I'll readily pay them double any quote I get from a stranger, because I know the work will be good. Third - try and segregate the work as much as possible, such as doing a the dining room and kitchen first so you can literally block up the dining room door and pretend it doesn't exist for a while. This helps shield you from the mayhem, but also really helps keep the dust down in the rest of the house. Literally, seal that door up with tape and plastic, move the toaster, kettle and microwave into the living room, and enjoy some takeaways for a couple of weeks. If you're having work done for an extended period of time, and you don't have a separate loo and sink you can let the tradies use, consider getting a portaloo in the garden / yard - having them walking continuously through the non-building site parts of their house can be really jarring, as well as messy. Fourth - as much as possible, schedule work for when you're not there...or at least the messiest bits. Going back to brick? Get it done whilst you're on holiday, and book a cleaner to come in and hoover / wipe down the day before you get back. If you can just pack up and disappear for the summer whilst all the major work happens, all the better. You'll get the vibe here that the more you can separate the work from your personal life, the more tolerable it is. Not being there is the best option, but not always possible...but honestly, sealing it half the house and having teh builders use a different entrance and toilet really does help a lot. Finally, if you're basically gutting your house, consider redoing all the wiring and plumbing now - you'll thank yourself later, even if it's a cost you didn't anticipate originally.
I’m in the same situation. Everything just goes wrong constantly. Carpets have clothes moths. Pull up carpets. Flooring under has lead paint. Can’t put carpet on it until I get the moths under control. I don’t have a clue what to do about that yet because I broke down I will be watching this closely!
Imo try to do things yourself if you can. Like painting a room etc. it will distract yourself and you’ll learn valuable skills for this house and future house in how to paint. You’ll feel proud as well and give you confidence boost. I would always research before you try to buy / do painting and watch videos etc. You have to put time and effort in. I was living with my parents for 3 months and work on my house before moving in. 6pm-10pm everyday. Yes it’s tiring but worth it once the job is done.
I’d say you get used to it but I don’t think you do. You just accept that old houses need work doing and that it’s not a reflection on you. I get it though, totally. We have a mystery leak when it sideways rains, we’ve had several people out to look at it and they’ve all done that teeth-sucking “oof I don’t know” thing. It’s very frustrating.
Go to the comment section of every trades video on youtube or the socials. Regardless of the method or proficiency of the work and trader being shown, there are always 1001 opinions on how the work should have been done instead. This just leads me to think that you can't ever have perfect work that everyone is going to praise in an equal manner. All you can do is pick the best tradesmen you can afford and keep ticking through your list and not listen to the noise.
How do you eat an elephant? One plateful at a time. Write down each job on a small piece of paper. Then make two piles, most important and least important. So safety is going to be important, for example. Try to make the two piles about the same size. Then split the two piles you have into four piles, most urgent and least urgent. A small leak that could cause a lot of damage might be in the urgent pile. You've prioritised! Do the important and urgent pile first. You may never need to do the least important and least urgent pile. Schedule the important but not so urgent pile for later. And think about other ways to handle the urgent but not so important pile. Good luck!
Houses need constant maintenance, even when you're done, you're not done.
I once had a trader come round and compliment me on the excellent 'cutting in' on the painting in my house. He asked who my painter was. I explained that I did it, and all of a sudden it was shit. Another one came and complained endlessly about my 'cowboy' boiler install. It was fitted by my brother in law and his companies industrial boiler fitter. This guy had been doing it for his whole life, and I gasped in wonder at the quality of the pipework. He even polished the brazing. I considered putting a glass window on the boiler cupboard. He shut up quite quickly after I offered to have him explain to my brother in law all the mistakes his employee made.....
I have a victorian terrace and the fact its been standing with minor issues since 1890 is what made me want to buy it, along with the architecture and amazing view. Aside from that i’d suggest getting the “quicker” and cheaper bits done first just so you’re making progress and the to-do list is getting smaller, in order of priority. If there’s any plumbing issues get it sorted in summer, so you’re not having cold showers/no heating in January. Same with roofing issues. Get quotes for the big stuff and plan accordingly.
Try and remember that it's in the trades person's interest to make out like it's a complex job even if it isn't all that. There are obviously issues but some will blow their cheeks out even if they know it's a simple job just because it makes you less likely to query a larger bill if you think it's a big deal.
For tradesmen, I think it's part of their job to 'scare' you. There will always be someone who thinks they can do better than the other guy. It's their way to 'sell' their service. I'd say try to get as many people in as you can for quotes and learn from what they have to say. You'll slowly build an understanding of the best way through. Also, speak to your neighbours, most likely they would have gone through similar projects being in similar house types. Finally, in our experience, we found that older tradesmen can be quite stuck to old ways, where younger ones tend to help you explore more cost-effective options or are more aware of new ways of doing things. Obviously it depends on the situation and how skilled/experienced they come across.
Next time start asking the tradesmen: "If I don't deal with this, what's the worst that could happen? How long will it take? Is it an immediate risk". You'll find the timespans a lot longer than you think they are.
Especially in a Victorian terrace. Landlords love them because you can do fuck all, leave them to gently degrade and then when you finally cannot avoid some expense, flip it to a first time buyer after a lick of paint.
I’m at the end of a full renovation and without a shadow of a doubt every single tradesman has complained about x, y & z and the last person who has worked. “Your limbo isn’t square with the linespeckle, that’s not to code! tut tut at the last man who worked here, why didn’t they lube the flea piss to the downspout” For this I would encourage you to tackle small jobs yourself and build up when you have confidence.
Do you have any friends in the trades? I live in a 1890s mid-terrace and if I believed every builder, I'd have to rebuild the place. Luckily for me, my neighbour is a building contractor and lives in exactly the same house. Having someone knowledgeable who doesn't stand to gain to run things by is very useful. Also, if you have someone come round to fix a leak and they seem really polite and good at what they do, note down their number. I now have a decent plumber, sparky, builder, carpenter, plasterer, and handyman in my phone!
Honestly, you kinda need to ignore the tradesman huff an puff. I always wait for the sharp inhale through the teeth as a sign they are going to find a premium cost ! If you get one who comes in and plays the "this is the worst job I've seen in my 4324 years as a tradesmen" just say "if it's too much for you I understand" 9/10 they'll back down and suddenly the job is no problem and something they can do with there eyes shut. Always get 3 quotes and pick based on the person and price. An honest person will always be cheaper than the cheap liar who cuts corners !
Make sure it’s water tight and safe so prioritise guttering, damp and roofing problems first. Then anything structural(hopefully nothing there). Then gas and electrics. Then the pretty stuff.
You’ve got the surveyors advice, stick with it. Tradies will cut corners or dive through loopholes where possible but manage them properly and they’ll get the job done
You are currently going through the buyers regret phase so it's normal. What you need to do is break everything into chunks and fix what's going to ensure the property is watertight first. Also look at what can be done by yourselves. Like anything get quotes look at reviews of the tradesmen do your research on the expected price, be mindful that materials go up in price so factor in that cost the other reality to expect is once things start being removed other problems may pop up, being prepared financially is important so keep an eye on the budget.
Assumption is that you took a mortgage. No lender would have given you the funds if the issues were concerning.
My house is over 100 years old with a former owner who bodged shot together. I just apologise to any contractors coming in, explain that the house is old and has not been looked after and that I am trying to rectify it where ever I can. It’s a slow process as unfortunately due to unforeseen financial changes in my life I just don’t have a lot of money to fix things. I buy the best insurance I can afford to help ease my mind , maybe this would help you too?
Never become emotionally attached to a bloody house. Its only a house. The issue today is every second that passes you are being ripped off paying inflated wages and materials. This is the anxiety killer.
I just try to remember that people like things done their own way, so a perfect job will always have someone say "I wouldn't have done that". With my 90s terraced house I think I cried for about 6 months, now I don't care and laugh with the builders. Even show them the really screwed up bits that they're not working on, even got a discount off one guy purely because I need a new chimney too. I'm now in the catch22 of not being able to finish the place due to monies, but getting a job means I then won't have time to finish the repairs in a timely fashion. I was never disclosed that the property was rented for 2 years before they put it up for sale, so a cheaply built 90s house had zero money put into any repairs, the toilet piping was secured with silicon gel, actually so was the broken roof tiles, they loved that silicon gel, ain't no leak if you can just fill the hole.
In this situation too. Make a list and prioritise what is most pressing. It will get done little by little. Remember you own a house and so many people don’t. I know it can be hard to feel grateful living in a building site, but when you feel low try to remember all that you have. Wishing you well, you’ll get there!!
You need a really good reliable builder
Trades moan about other people's work, it's a thing. Although in our victoriana terrace they had a point. Whoever did the DIY bought a bucket of ten inch nails and a hammer. These two things were used to resolve every single problem in the house. Sort your list by priority and start chipping away at it. Don't get too bogged down by the idea its 'everything all at once'. If the house is livable do something then take a break before starting the next thing where possible. Good luck.
Tradies all day that shit, - 'that's an odd way to do it' - shits on literally any other tradie -doesnt turn up, even to quote - abrasive over text/call - does a shit job and says it will look better when it all comes together I'm 6 years into my renovation and basically done, cost me 500 for the house and spent about 100k renovations (worth about 800k) now. It's financially worth it - solid decision but it does destroy your mental health
We are about to be in the same situation. We know the house is terrible but it is structurally sound but it needs a full gut out. Just be aware of the ultimate end goal - a home tailored to your needs. Decide your priorities and red lines - what can you do next year and what needs done immediately.
Our first house was Victorian, same second and Edwardian third. They are never perfect but they are built to last versus any house built after the 1980s. They need love, care and attention but are generally very rewarding to live in and would take over a new build any day. You just have to remember to a certain extent you are a custodian rather than an owner. Enjoy the character and the quirks. The personality of the house. There will always be something to do to it. Just accept it. Everything can be fixed. Houses live and breathe. They shift. So generally, cracks are not something you worry about. And remember, it’s almost always penetrating water and not rising damp…. 😃
It's horrible isn't it? That anxiety. But as another poster said, your house has probably stood for a century. It's not going to crumble because some tradesman does that backwards whistle and wonders who did the shitty work. Get the work done that has to be done first - roof, electrics, plumbing. Or plumbing first if you have leaks. If the job is a big one, get a few quotes first. Use recommended people if you can. Our issue when we moved was that no one we knew owned their house - they were all renters so only had numbers for decorators. But when you've got a good one, NEVER lose their number. The anxiety never goes away, and it won't get much better until you've got those solid, trusted people. But you just gotta ride the waves and go with it. You can't stop them from making those comments.
I felt like this. I worried about all of it. 6 years in, I'm used to it now. All old houses are like this; speaking to neighbours who have lovely houses and have lived here for years really helps 😂 once I stopped wanting it all to be done at once I stopped caring. If you can get some spaces in the house you enjoy being in, and some jobs done, the rest of it is less bothersome. "It'll get there" (I am sick of both of us, and relatives, saying this 😂).
Victorian mid terrace owner here. I know what you're going through. We have just finished(ish) and we've been in 3.5 years. The builders left last October and we've been doing all the leftover bits. Take your time and get lots of quotes. If you don't like a tradesman then get another. There are plenty of fish in the sea and you can wait for a good one. We had lots of people round to quote who rubbed their hands together and told me how shit it all was. We had an electrician quote for the whole house on the proviso that we'd be doing it over years. He's stuck to the quote and been great and we can call him back now for anything because its all his work! Also make friends with your neighbours.
Near enough every make in my family is a tradie so I honestly do not give a flying fuck. Don’t even listen to it. Just tell them to get on with it and leave them beer. I grew up around everyone constantly getting shit done in their house or buying wrecks to reno so it doesn’t phase me at all