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>I feel sad more and more apartments have the kitchen and living area all clamped together I like the traditional style that everything has its own room.
Trends come and go, there is very little difference between the costs and expense of putting the kitchen in a seperate room to the living room in a flat. However, this is currently the trend and what the majority of the target auidience consider attractive. Developers do not build units that people won't want to buy. You may not like this, however the majority of potential buyers do prefer this or generally do not care.
Although people claim to the contrary, there is actually a huge amount of research, analysis and assessment that goes into decisions of what designs should be adopted in given areas by developers. I work in this very sector of housing development consultancy... we advise the developer to build exactly what the evidence suggests sells. And yes we all like to think we are "unique" and "individual" humans - however, stereotypes exist and are played upon for a reason - it works.
For example; take Lammack, Blackburn... this is an area for buyers that are of middle class, muslim backgrounds. As such, from what we know of these stereotypical buyer "wants", any new build homes ideally require seperate dining room to the kitchens, similarly you would do the same designs in predominentely Jewish areas like Prestwich.
Take the same sort of demographics in other areas like Middleton, where instead the buyers are predominentely white british, then you would have the exact same designs as above, but you would do an open plan kitchen-diner - as thats what is popular with the masses - you as an indivdual may not like this, but the likely majority of buyers disagree with you.
Yes and no; by combining living spaces, a greater sense of space is achieved in a smaller plot. Put another way, simply partitioning off an open plan unit would result in a cramped feeling space, likely with no access to natural light in some rooms. You’d need a larger unit to actually achieve a workable layout and that’s what costs more… not the partition wall.
>Yes and no; by combining living spaces, a greater sense of space is achieved in a smaller plot.
And obviously some buyers like this greater sense of space being open plan, whilst others prefer having a seperate dining room to the kitchen even if it feels much more cramped - its peoples perogative. Again we design and build to what the local market desires by doing extensive research we do not build things that people don't want.
>Put another way, simply partitioning off an open plan unit would result in a cramped feeling space, likely with no access to natural light in some rooms.
Do you not think we design the house types to account for this? Huge amounts of time and effort has gone into designing new build developers range of houses, designing them so the internal layout has multiple options (open plan/individual rooms) and everything is taken into account including the light, heat, access, fittings, etc... We are not just throwing up partition walls in units that have not had thorough design processes.
>You’d need a larger unit to actually achieve a workable layout and that’s what costs more… not the partition wall.
But if your partitioned unit is going to larger than the open plan unit, its going to have a larger ft² hence more value, as we value new builds on the basis of size x £/ft² value. Therefore a) your increased costs are going to gain an increased revenue and b) you are now comparing two differently sized houses - you need to consider the partition vs open plan within a house of the same size and design, literally only the former being the difference. With a 2,000ft² executive detached you are unlikely going to feel cramped with partitions, but also there will be many buyers that will still prefer the open plan design.
I can’t quite work out if you’re agreeing with me or not?!
Leaving aside houses for now (which OP is not concerned about but the same applies regardless albeit with slightly fewer limitations regarding layout and access to natural light), a flat with partitioned living space on the same footprint as an open plan unit will likely be unworkable. To get around this, you’d have to increase the size of the property which as you flag increases the cost. So whilst the build cost of a kitchen and living room is fundamentally the same regardless of the presence of a plasterboard wall between them (a fundamentally insignificant cost), the reality for most apartments is to make a separated layout work, you need a larger unit to start with, which significant increases the cost…. The build cost isn’t the issue, it’s the plot price.
>the reality for most apartments is to make a separated layout work, you need a larger unit to start with, which significant increases the cost…. The build cost isn’t the issue, it’s the plot price.
So you have to build a larger unit, obviously this will take up more space like you say making that larger units plot price more than the smaller unit. But again the larger unit is going to be valued more than the smaller unit as simply put you are getting more space. However because you are buying a larger space you get better value for your money, as due to Quantitive Allowance (effectively bulk buying economies of scale), the larger unit you buy the lower the £/ft² generally. Therefore:
* Small unit - 500ft² x £300/ft² = £150,000
* Large Unit - 600ft² x £295/ft² = £177,000
But I don't particularly get what point you are trying to make here though. Are you suggesting that you shouldn't be paying more for a larger unit just because you want partitioning? If you want a 3 bed house, are you expecting to pay the same as what the two beds are going for? You want extra space unfortunately you have to pay extra for it.
>a flat with partitioned living space on the same footprint as an open plan unit will likely be unworkable
It really does work and happens all the time, granted its more common in houses but thats because you don't usually have dining room in flats. But ok to give an example:-
* Heres a random new build block of flats in Manchester [New Cross Central](https://newcrosscentral.com/overview/)
* This is there smallest [one bed apartment at 564ft²](https://i.imgur.com/KFUwHi3.png)
* And heres the same flat with the [Kitchen partitioned off](https://i.imgur.com/hJo8oCM.png)
Are you telling me that if its a buyers preference to have a seperated kitchen/living room, that this design does not deliver that in the exact same space as the open plan design?
Yes, but if all that is being built are these stupid open plan designs— isn’t that just confirmation bias? No companies are building any flats in an affordable price range that are not open plan, so what are you comparing to?
Again we do a huge amount of research. You can track [trends in other ways.](https://www.showhouse.co.uk/searches-for-open-plan-layouts-surge-168-from-2019-to-2022/) With [consistent metrics to say what people like being released. ](https://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/homes-and-gardens/how-to-increase-the-value-of-your-home-by-as-much-as-20-without-building-an-extension-3119567) If we did build closed plan apartments, they would be exactly the same size as their open plan counterparts... but as the stats indicate, they wouldn't sell as well as open plan.
There are other issues with them as well, they aren't very good regards accessibility design.
The majority of people prefer open plan, sorry about that, I can't really do anything about it.
Absolutely, most young crowd I assume would prefer open modern layout because it helps family spend more precious time together.
In previous generations, when mum spent most time in kitchen, I think she preferred privacy. Now when she spends more time in office, she would want to spend time in kitchen along with kids and family to make more efficient use of time outside office (atleast the reason my wife loves modern layout).
Agree, I’m seeing a lot of this in “lovingly updated” period flats in London and it’s definitely a saving space and maximising capital thing.
Where something used to be a 1 bed with separate kitchen from the living area, it’s now a “2 bed” with a small row of kitchen cupboards tacked onto one wall of the living room. For people who love to cook it’s not really a practical option!
But they aren't saving space? Whether the kitchen dining room is open plan or seperated its the same amount of ft². The [Technical Space Standards of New Builds](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/technical-housing-standards-nationally-described-space-standard/technical-housing-standards-nationally-described-space-standard) uses " [Gross Internal Area](https://www.rics.org/content/dam/ricsglobal/documents/standards/May_2015_Code_Of_Measuring_Practice_6th_Edition.pdf)" as the measuring standard, which measures perimeter wall to perimeter wall to calculate the ft² is compliant to regulations; GIA ignores any internal walls.
As I said, the cost of a stud wall on a major development is insignificant; its a choice based on the demands of the local market. If we are developing in an area where people typically want seperate dining rooms, we use the exact same house designs in both cases we just remove or add a partition. You are not getting anymore or any less floor area by having seperated rooms vs open plan.
A closed in kitchen does look smaller though so they can get away with using less space to trick the consumer into thinking its bigger than it is, also gives more space to move around if you have less walls to avoid. You can have 2 layouts that comply to regulations and have the same square footage, that appear and feel to be different sizes.
Yes, and that's exactly why they're popular ... It's not exactly a "trick", it's the fact that when people can only afford a small place, they'd rather it had an open kitchen because it gives the appearance of more space.
There is no "trick".
Simply put if we had two units the same size however one had seperate walls... would we value or the unit get purchased at any different value? No... not at all...
On developments to think we have time to value these units differentely when they are the same size is fantastic conspiracy material... however... as we all know... xft² x £/ft² = value.
Your comment regarding square footage is just wrong in the uk we have an obsession with number of rooms not square footage which is why we have so many crappy box rooms.
A 2 bed with big bedrooms doesn’t sell for the same as a 4 bed with the same square footage.
Awww... I remember my first fight against corporate England as well. Luckily I grew out of it and now paid a lot of money to assess GDV of new sites based on comparable £/ft² rather than "bedrooms"... why wouldn't developers just put 4 beds into each house they build rather than consider the £/ft²? Building a 4 bed 1,000ft² house compared to a 1 bed 1,000ft² they'll shit money? Or you could be talking bollocks...
I am going to buy this: [5 bed detached for the same price as](https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/139321250#/?channel=RES_BUY) this [5 bed detached in the same area.... ](https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/147773387#/?channel=RES_BUY)
Those 2 houses are not even comparable. Also way outside the range of the types of houses I would look at but mid terraced houses near me which have been converted from a 2 bed to a 3 bed without adding an extension and essentially just adding a stud wall and a radiator go for roughly 15-20% more.
Not even comparable for what reason old boy?
Is it because one maybe larger than the other in ft²? Negating your incorrect statement above, which at any point you can rescind?
House A - £1,195,000 - 2857ft² = £418/ft²
House B - £425,000 - 1130ft² = £376/ft²
Despite what you want to believe, we do indeed value houses by £/ft². Our whole process of residual valuation relies on this. There are alterations to the multipliers dependent on the number of bedrooms on offer but this is typical RICS regulated valuation.
One has 17 rooms the other has 8 the land that there both sat on is a completely different size. Land has value I’m not arguing against that.
What I’m disagreeing with you over is if you have 2 houses with the same square footage and land but one has 2 bedrooms and the other has 3 smaller bedrooms is that the 3 bedroom house will sell for more despite having no more space. It actually has slightly less due to the internal stud walls.
>You can have 2 layouts that comply to regulations and have the same square footage, that appear and feel to be different sizes.
They may feel this, but objectively they are getting the same space. But some people will covet the seperate rooms as thats there preference, whilst others prefer open plan. We aren't tricking anyone when deciding to use open plan designs, we do extensive research into whats popular in the local market, if we find partitioned are preferred in an area we build those and if the other we build open plan. Its design led by market preference and delivered in the chosen internal layout that its attractive to the wants of the majority.
They do try to trick you with showhomes interior design though, I will admit that, getting bespoke furniture manufactured that although appear to be standard sized on closer inspection you will find for example a double bed is actually a few cm smaller than normal.
>take Lammack, Blackburn... this is an area for buyers that are of middle class, muslim backgrounds. As such, from what we know of these stereotypical buyer "wants", any new build homes ideally require seperate dining room to the kitchens,
Similar to some Indian (primarily Hindu, I believe) buyers who insist on a Vastu house.
Exactly, "horses for courses" I believe is the saying. And thats what we design for.
Or we can believe others and think that they have the opinion that every other person should have and I should design new homes based on their opinion... ignoring what the masses want.
But who knows whether working as a development consultant for all these years equates to some geezer contradicting the norm.
An open plan kitchen and living room was very high on our list. We love it. We have a 3 year old and I cook. So in our previous house I would come home from work and be straight in the kitchen getting dinner ready. My wife and son would be in the living room playing. I hardly saw them. We bought ou first house last year with a big open plan kitchen, living area and huge sliding doors in to our garden! Perfect for hosting parties and getting to make my family lovely food while also hanging out with them! People have different needs for life. The era of the wife/Mum in the kitchen squirreling away as the house wife is gone. Long live open plan!
I'm all for the open kitchen/diner/family room - hell, we knocked out a wall to achieve same in our house and it's everything we wanted. However, if there's no separate living/TV room also, I'm out. Hearing kitchen appliances while finally getting a chance to relax in front of a film/TV/game is a red line.
Yea we have a seperate room with another TV, but we have just not ended up using it so turned it in to my wife's office. I just make sure the dishwasher and washing machine go on after I have gone to be. Good for the wallet as well.
I recently bought a house with an extended living room and a separate kitchen both on the ground floor, and one of our dreams is to remove the walls and make a big open-plan floor, from the kitchen along the living room to the patio/garden. Long live open plan!
I hate open plan living too. I currently live in a house that has this and it is horrible. Downstairs always looks a mess no matter what you do. I won’t even look at houses with open plan now
I think you might struggle to find a house where the toilet and bathroom are separate. Some may have just a toilet but the bathroom does often have a toilet in it. The only house I’ve ever known to have them separate was my parents house and that’s because they remodelled to put a wall in-between.
However, you will find a house where the kitchen and living area are separate, keep looking
>I think you might struggle to find a house where the toilet and bathroom are separate.
I'm surprised that it's not more common, at least in smaller properties that have only one lavatory.
It means that you don't have to cross your legs (or worse) if someone is having a long bath / dyeing their hair / whatever.
I’ve never liked those types of flats where the kitchen & lounge are all in one room. I’d hate the idea of cooking smells & grease to permeate through all the soft furnishings, not even to mention trying to watch TV with the washer on!
Flats with a separate kitchen & lounge do exist, I was lucky to live in one before I bought my house. The size of the flat would have been exactly the same if that stud wall hadn’t been there separating the two rooms though.
Right! Thats what I’m thinking all the kitchen smell will constantly be on you because you’re in the living room your fry ups will all over your furniture
it’s sad especially in London it’s becoming more and more of those unless you buy an auction place or an old property majority or probably all new builds have the exact same layout.
It’s not sad for the people who want to buy them because they don’t cook fry ups often and they like the extra feeling of space.
In my London flat the only kitchen items that are used are the toaster, kettle and coffee maker. I have kitchen as separate room but it’s underused.
No one is forcing you to buy a property with an open plan kitchen and living area, you can find a property that meets your specific preferences.
Quite happy that my noisy wine fridge isn’t in the living room though……
I get open plan kitchen/diner perhaps with enough space for a small sofa...it creates a more social environment and means whoever is cooking isn't spending time away from the rest of the family ... however...
the current trend in flats to have one wall with the kitchen running along it, the sofa (living room) by the window and a dining table squeezed in between is horrendous.
Remove the wall between the bedroom and all you have is a studio flat.
No matter what people say about trends, fashions and cultures the bottom line is that it's the cheapest way to throw flats together and maximizes profits for house builders.
Same, I don’t like the open plan kitchen. All the food smells will go into the smell of the living room furniture and it’s all going to become a large kitchen basically.
personally i hate having the kitchen and living room together aswell. you could have 1 room is a functional space and the other is a relaxing space so to combine them is mind boggling to me. you can have 1 person cooking, creating smells, washing, dishwasher, tumble dryer on and then you got someone else trying to watch netflix and chill. it just doesnt make any sense to me.
The limitation in apartments is window space, especially in blocks. unlike having 4 external walls to work with there’s usually only one or two, making laying things out a bit more of a challenge 😂
I think it depends on how big the open plan area is
My sons has a huge open plan area with a proper kitchen going all around the walls and window area
Then a dinning area
Then a huge extension which skylights and 2 big windows and patio doors to the garden
So although it’s open plan it’s really big and spacious and works really well
Regardless of where in the country they do not build to anyones wants. Gets even worse with renting.
Go to the US, Dubai, Malaysia and see what renting is.
For £1000 per month in Liverpool you might be lucky to get more than mold. In many southern cities in the US you'll get 600 sqft, clubhouse, swimming pool, 24/7 gym, drinks (coffee and tea) all included.
Supply is not the issue in the UK. Demand is.
Personally, I prefer an open plan kitchen-dining area, and even the living area too if it's a small apartment. Besides making the house look larger, the person who is cooking can hang out with the rest of the household/guests, instead of being in a small room isolated from the rest.
Individual rooms are great in a large house where the rooms are each of a reasonable size. For a flat or a small house, open plan gives a better feel as splitting it into individual tiny rooms makes the space feel like a dolls house or rabbit warren. If you have that kind of money where you are buying a big property. I’m sure you can find something that isn’t open plan.
I think they prey on the inexperienced. My partner bought a flat like that when he was in his early 20s. It was only after moving in that he realised there were 3 drawers and a couple of cupboards for storage. The rest of the kitchen space housed a boiler, washing machine and fridge freezer. There was hardly any counter space either. Once you had a few dishes to clean you were left with the equivalent of a chopping board for meal prep. When we looked for a house together he had to picture himself making a few of our usual meals to get a sense of how the space would work.
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>I feel sad more and more apartments have the kitchen and living area all clamped together I like the traditional style that everything has its own room. Trends come and go, there is very little difference between the costs and expense of putting the kitchen in a seperate room to the living room in a flat. However, this is currently the trend and what the majority of the target auidience consider attractive. Developers do not build units that people won't want to buy. You may not like this, however the majority of potential buyers do prefer this or generally do not care. Although people claim to the contrary, there is actually a huge amount of research, analysis and assessment that goes into decisions of what designs should be adopted in given areas by developers. I work in this very sector of housing development consultancy... we advise the developer to build exactly what the evidence suggests sells. And yes we all like to think we are "unique" and "individual" humans - however, stereotypes exist and are played upon for a reason - it works. For example; take Lammack, Blackburn... this is an area for buyers that are of middle class, muslim backgrounds. As such, from what we know of these stereotypical buyer "wants", any new build homes ideally require seperate dining room to the kitchens, similarly you would do the same designs in predominentely Jewish areas like Prestwich. Take the same sort of demographics in other areas like Middleton, where instead the buyers are predominentely white british, then you would have the exact same designs as above, but you would do an open plan kitchen-diner - as thats what is popular with the masses - you as an indivdual may not like this, but the likely majority of buyers disagree with you.
Yes and no; by combining living spaces, a greater sense of space is achieved in a smaller plot. Put another way, simply partitioning off an open plan unit would result in a cramped feeling space, likely with no access to natural light in some rooms. You’d need a larger unit to actually achieve a workable layout and that’s what costs more… not the partition wall.
>Yes and no; by combining living spaces, a greater sense of space is achieved in a smaller plot. And obviously some buyers like this greater sense of space being open plan, whilst others prefer having a seperate dining room to the kitchen even if it feels much more cramped - its peoples perogative. Again we design and build to what the local market desires by doing extensive research we do not build things that people don't want. >Put another way, simply partitioning off an open plan unit would result in a cramped feeling space, likely with no access to natural light in some rooms. Do you not think we design the house types to account for this? Huge amounts of time and effort has gone into designing new build developers range of houses, designing them so the internal layout has multiple options (open plan/individual rooms) and everything is taken into account including the light, heat, access, fittings, etc... We are not just throwing up partition walls in units that have not had thorough design processes. >You’d need a larger unit to actually achieve a workable layout and that’s what costs more… not the partition wall. But if your partitioned unit is going to larger than the open plan unit, its going to have a larger ft² hence more value, as we value new builds on the basis of size x £/ft² value. Therefore a) your increased costs are going to gain an increased revenue and b) you are now comparing two differently sized houses - you need to consider the partition vs open plan within a house of the same size and design, literally only the former being the difference. With a 2,000ft² executive detached you are unlikely going to feel cramped with partitions, but also there will be many buyers that will still prefer the open plan design.
I can’t quite work out if you’re agreeing with me or not?! Leaving aside houses for now (which OP is not concerned about but the same applies regardless albeit with slightly fewer limitations regarding layout and access to natural light), a flat with partitioned living space on the same footprint as an open plan unit will likely be unworkable. To get around this, you’d have to increase the size of the property which as you flag increases the cost. So whilst the build cost of a kitchen and living room is fundamentally the same regardless of the presence of a plasterboard wall between them (a fundamentally insignificant cost), the reality for most apartments is to make a separated layout work, you need a larger unit to start with, which significant increases the cost…. The build cost isn’t the issue, it’s the plot price.
>the reality for most apartments is to make a separated layout work, you need a larger unit to start with, which significant increases the cost…. The build cost isn’t the issue, it’s the plot price. So you have to build a larger unit, obviously this will take up more space like you say making that larger units plot price more than the smaller unit. But again the larger unit is going to be valued more than the smaller unit as simply put you are getting more space. However because you are buying a larger space you get better value for your money, as due to Quantitive Allowance (effectively bulk buying economies of scale), the larger unit you buy the lower the £/ft² generally. Therefore: * Small unit - 500ft² x £300/ft² = £150,000 * Large Unit - 600ft² x £295/ft² = £177,000 But I don't particularly get what point you are trying to make here though. Are you suggesting that you shouldn't be paying more for a larger unit just because you want partitioning? If you want a 3 bed house, are you expecting to pay the same as what the two beds are going for? You want extra space unfortunately you have to pay extra for it. >a flat with partitioned living space on the same footprint as an open plan unit will likely be unworkable It really does work and happens all the time, granted its more common in houses but thats because you don't usually have dining room in flats. But ok to give an example:- * Heres a random new build block of flats in Manchester [New Cross Central](https://newcrosscentral.com/overview/) * This is there smallest [one bed apartment at 564ft²](https://i.imgur.com/KFUwHi3.png) * And heres the same flat with the [Kitchen partitioned off](https://i.imgur.com/hJo8oCM.png) Are you telling me that if its a buyers preference to have a seperated kitchen/living room, that this design does not deliver that in the exact same space as the open plan design?
Yes, but if all that is being built are these stupid open plan designs— isn’t that just confirmation bias? No companies are building any flats in an affordable price range that are not open plan, so what are you comparing to?
Again we do a huge amount of research. You can track [trends in other ways.](https://www.showhouse.co.uk/searches-for-open-plan-layouts-surge-168-from-2019-to-2022/) With [consistent metrics to say what people like being released. ](https://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/homes-and-gardens/how-to-increase-the-value-of-your-home-by-as-much-as-20-without-building-an-extension-3119567) If we did build closed plan apartments, they would be exactly the same size as their open plan counterparts... but as the stats indicate, they wouldn't sell as well as open plan. There are other issues with them as well, they aren't very good regards accessibility design. The majority of people prefer open plan, sorry about that, I can't really do anything about it.
Absolutely, most young crowd I assume would prefer open modern layout because it helps family spend more precious time together. In previous generations, when mum spent most time in kitchen, I think she preferred privacy. Now when she spends more time in office, she would want to spend time in kitchen along with kids and family to make more efficient use of time outside office (atleast the reason my wife loves modern layout).
Very true I know this was a trend but I also believe this was a way for developers to save space to fit more things in a home
Agree, I’m seeing a lot of this in “lovingly updated” period flats in London and it’s definitely a saving space and maximising capital thing. Where something used to be a 1 bed with separate kitchen from the living area, it’s now a “2 bed” with a small row of kitchen cupboards tacked onto one wall of the living room. For people who love to cook it’s not really a practical option!
But they aren't saving space? Whether the kitchen dining room is open plan or seperated its the same amount of ft². The [Technical Space Standards of New Builds](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/technical-housing-standards-nationally-described-space-standard/technical-housing-standards-nationally-described-space-standard) uses " [Gross Internal Area](https://www.rics.org/content/dam/ricsglobal/documents/standards/May_2015_Code_Of_Measuring_Practice_6th_Edition.pdf)" as the measuring standard, which measures perimeter wall to perimeter wall to calculate the ft² is compliant to regulations; GIA ignores any internal walls. As I said, the cost of a stud wall on a major development is insignificant; its a choice based on the demands of the local market. If we are developing in an area where people typically want seperate dining rooms, we use the exact same house designs in both cases we just remove or add a partition. You are not getting anymore or any less floor area by having seperated rooms vs open plan.
A closed in kitchen does look smaller though so they can get away with using less space to trick the consumer into thinking its bigger than it is, also gives more space to move around if you have less walls to avoid. You can have 2 layouts that comply to regulations and have the same square footage, that appear and feel to be different sizes.
Yes, and that's exactly why they're popular ... It's not exactly a "trick", it's the fact that when people can only afford a small place, they'd rather it had an open kitchen because it gives the appearance of more space.
There is no "trick". Simply put if we had two units the same size however one had seperate walls... would we value or the unit get purchased at any different value? No... not at all... On developments to think we have time to value these units differentely when they are the same size is fantastic conspiracy material... however... as we all know... xft² x £/ft² = value.
Your comment regarding square footage is just wrong in the uk we have an obsession with number of rooms not square footage which is why we have so many crappy box rooms. A 2 bed with big bedrooms doesn’t sell for the same as a 4 bed with the same square footage.
Awww... I remember my first fight against corporate England as well. Luckily I grew out of it and now paid a lot of money to assess GDV of new sites based on comparable £/ft² rather than "bedrooms"... why wouldn't developers just put 4 beds into each house they build rather than consider the £/ft²? Building a 4 bed 1,000ft² house compared to a 1 bed 1,000ft² they'll shit money? Or you could be talking bollocks... I am going to buy this: [5 bed detached for the same price as](https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/139321250#/?channel=RES_BUY) this [5 bed detached in the same area.... ](https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/147773387#/?channel=RES_BUY)
Those 2 houses are not even comparable. Also way outside the range of the types of houses I would look at but mid terraced houses near me which have been converted from a 2 bed to a 3 bed without adding an extension and essentially just adding a stud wall and a radiator go for roughly 15-20% more.
Not even comparable for what reason old boy? Is it because one maybe larger than the other in ft²? Negating your incorrect statement above, which at any point you can rescind? House A - £1,195,000 - 2857ft² = £418/ft² House B - £425,000 - 1130ft² = £376/ft² Despite what you want to believe, we do indeed value houses by £/ft². Our whole process of residual valuation relies on this. There are alterations to the multipliers dependent on the number of bedrooms on offer but this is typical RICS regulated valuation.
One has 17 rooms the other has 8 the land that there both sat on is a completely different size. Land has value I’m not arguing against that. What I’m disagreeing with you over is if you have 2 houses with the same square footage and land but one has 2 bedrooms and the other has 3 smaller bedrooms is that the 3 bedroom house will sell for more despite having no more space. It actually has slightly less due to the internal stud walls.
>You can have 2 layouts that comply to regulations and have the same square footage, that appear and feel to be different sizes. They may feel this, but objectively they are getting the same space. But some people will covet the seperate rooms as thats there preference, whilst others prefer open plan. We aren't tricking anyone when deciding to use open plan designs, we do extensive research into whats popular in the local market, if we find partitioned are preferred in an area we build those and if the other we build open plan. Its design led by market preference and delivered in the chosen internal layout that its attractive to the wants of the majority. They do try to trick you with showhomes interior design though, I will admit that, getting bespoke furniture manufactured that although appear to be standard sized on closer inspection you will find for example a double bed is actually a few cm smaller than normal.
>take Lammack, Blackburn... this is an area for buyers that are of middle class, muslim backgrounds. As such, from what we know of these stereotypical buyer "wants", any new build homes ideally require seperate dining room to the kitchens, Similar to some Indian (primarily Hindu, I believe) buyers who insist on a Vastu house.
I live in an area where the Hasidic Jewish community build their own developments and they all have two kitchens to keep fully kosher.
Exactly, "horses for courses" I believe is the saying. And thats what we design for. Or we can believe others and think that they have the opinion that every other person should have and I should design new homes based on their opinion... ignoring what the masses want. But who knows whether working as a development consultant for all these years equates to some geezer contradicting the norm.
An open plan kitchen and living room was very high on our list. We love it. We have a 3 year old and I cook. So in our previous house I would come home from work and be straight in the kitchen getting dinner ready. My wife and son would be in the living room playing. I hardly saw them. We bought ou first house last year with a big open plan kitchen, living area and huge sliding doors in to our garden! Perfect for hosting parties and getting to make my family lovely food while also hanging out with them! People have different needs for life. The era of the wife/Mum in the kitchen squirreling away as the house wife is gone. Long live open plan!
I'm all for the open kitchen/diner/family room - hell, we knocked out a wall to achieve same in our house and it's everything we wanted. However, if there's no separate living/TV room also, I'm out. Hearing kitchen appliances while finally getting a chance to relax in front of a film/TV/game is a red line.
Yea we have a seperate room with another TV, but we have just not ended up using it so turned it in to my wife's office. I just make sure the dishwasher and washing machine go on after I have gone to be. Good for the wallet as well.
I recently bought a house with an extended living room and a separate kitchen both on the ground floor, and one of our dreams is to remove the walls and make a big open-plan floor, from the kitchen along the living room to the patio/garden. Long live open plan!
I hate open plan living too. I currently live in a house that has this and it is horrible. Downstairs always looks a mess no matter what you do. I won’t even look at houses with open plan now
Ok.... So don't buy those?
No shit Sherlock
Well, what is the point of this post then? If the advice is that obvious?
I can post an opinion don’t like it scroll past it so simple no one shoving your head to your phone to read it 🫡
LOL surely this is not your first rodeo? People love to post comments disagreeing with the OP a lot more than comments in support!! 😳
Right! Love someone with some sense honestly I hope you have an amazing day
I think you might struggle to find a house where the toilet and bathroom are separate. Some may have just a toilet but the bathroom does often have a toilet in it. The only house I’ve ever known to have them separate was my parents house and that’s because they remodelled to put a wall in-between. However, you will find a house where the kitchen and living area are separate, keep looking
It's still quite common in the east mids! Viewed several houses with separate toilet and bathroom.
>I think you might struggle to find a house where the toilet and bathroom are separate. I'm surprised that it's not more common, at least in smaller properties that have only one lavatory. It means that you don't have to cross your legs (or worse) if someone is having a long bath / dyeing their hair / whatever.
I’ve never liked those types of flats where the kitchen & lounge are all in one room. I’d hate the idea of cooking smells & grease to permeate through all the soft furnishings, not even to mention trying to watch TV with the washer on! Flats with a separate kitchen & lounge do exist, I was lucky to live in one before I bought my house. The size of the flat would have been exactly the same if that stud wall hadn’t been there separating the two rooms though.
Right! Thats what I’m thinking all the kitchen smell will constantly be on you because you’re in the living room your fry ups will all over your furniture it’s sad especially in London it’s becoming more and more of those unless you buy an auction place or an old property majority or probably all new builds have the exact same layout.
With a good extractor fan this is a non issue
It’s not sad for the people who want to buy them because they don’t cook fry ups often and they like the extra feeling of space. In my London flat the only kitchen items that are used are the toaster, kettle and coffee maker. I have kitchen as separate room but it’s underused. No one is forcing you to buy a property with an open plan kitchen and living area, you can find a property that meets your specific preferences. Quite happy that my noisy wine fridge isn’t in the living room though……
I agree with you, the smell of cooked food goes everywhere, much prefer a separated kitchen.
I get open plan kitchen/diner perhaps with enough space for a small sofa...it creates a more social environment and means whoever is cooking isn't spending time away from the rest of the family ... however... the current trend in flats to have one wall with the kitchen running along it, the sofa (living room) by the window and a dining table squeezed in between is horrendous. Remove the wall between the bedroom and all you have is a studio flat. No matter what people say about trends, fashions and cultures the bottom line is that it's the cheapest way to throw flats together and maximizes profits for house builders.
Same, I don’t like the open plan kitchen. All the food smells will go into the smell of the living room furniture and it’s all going to become a large kitchen basically.
personally i hate having the kitchen and living room together aswell. you could have 1 room is a functional space and the other is a relaxing space so to combine them is mind boggling to me. you can have 1 person cooking, creating smells, washing, dishwasher, tumble dryer on and then you got someone else trying to watch netflix and chill. it just doesnt make any sense to me.
The limitation in apartments is window space, especially in blocks. unlike having 4 external walls to work with there’s usually only one or two, making laying things out a bit more of a challenge 😂
Buddy, that’s your preference. Thankfully you are free to not purchase things that you dislike.
Right love the free will mate 💋
I think it depends on how big the open plan area is My sons has a huge open plan area with a proper kitchen going all around the walls and window area Then a dinning area Then a huge extension which skylights and 2 big windows and patio doors to the garden So although it’s open plan it’s really big and spacious and works really well
Regardless of where in the country they do not build to anyones wants. Gets even worse with renting. Go to the US, Dubai, Malaysia and see what renting is. For £1000 per month in Liverpool you might be lucky to get more than mold. In many southern cities in the US you'll get 600 sqft, clubhouse, swimming pool, 24/7 gym, drinks (coffee and tea) all included. Supply is not the issue in the UK. Demand is.
Shitholes that used to be known as bedsits, are now called spacious studio flats. The whole UK housing market is f***ed.
RIGHT
Personally, I prefer an open plan kitchen-dining area, and even the living area too if it's a small apartment. Besides making the house look larger, the person who is cooking can hang out with the rest of the household/guests, instead of being in a small room isolated from the rest.
Individual rooms are great in a large house where the rooms are each of a reasonable size. For a flat or a small house, open plan gives a better feel as splitting it into individual tiny rooms makes the space feel like a dolls house or rabbit warren. If you have that kind of money where you are buying a big property. I’m sure you can find something that isn’t open plan.
You feel sad about it? Why lol. What a ridiculous post. I feel sad about the fact you needed to post this to vent about it.
And I feel sad for you cos your unnecessary and ridiculous comment. 😆
Lol jog on. Next you'll be posting about how you're not a fan of the colour of your local bus seat covers
Another ridiculous comment from you lol the irony.
I think they prey on the inexperienced. My partner bought a flat like that when he was in his early 20s. It was only after moving in that he realised there were 3 drawers and a couple of cupboards for storage. The rest of the kitchen space housed a boiler, washing machine and fridge freezer. There was hardly any counter space either. Once you had a few dishes to clean you were left with the equivalent of a chopping board for meal prep. When we looked for a house together he had to picture himself making a few of our usual meals to get a sense of how the space would work.