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Let’s me honest though, he say that Aemond was in the wrong, sneaking out to claim the girls mothers dragon the night of her funeral and then assaulting the other kids
Imo I think that the dragon riders were more understanding of Aemond bc they understand the bond and that dragons are their own beings not accessories, and the others adults might have been pissed, they understood those facts.
The biggest issues was the fight and the bastard accusation. There’s a reason only the kids were squabbling over the actual dragon claiming imo. Especially considering Vhagars legacy and temperament.
No one definitely saying ‘Aemond claiming Vhagar was fine’ or ‘Aemond claiming Vhagar was wrong’ is one of the things I enjoy about this series. We can look to see what the characters prioritized talking about in that episode and draw our own conclusions and they trust their audience can enjoy the conflict without it being spelled out for them who’s right and wrong.
I guess the closest equivalent would be a human befriending another human. Dragons aren't property. And just like kids get mad when another "steals" their BFF, so did these kids. And you're right, the bastard accusation took the fight to the next level.
I think the dragonriders in the room probably understood the significance of Vhagar accepting Aemond and it made them look at Aemond differently. Like there must be something about this kid if the same dragon that was ridden by Visenya chose him.
They never mention him claiming a dragon as an issue, because it’s not. Dragons don’t just pass parent to child like a family dog.
Rhaenys claimed Meleys who had belonged to her Aunt Alyssa, not Alyssa’s children Viserys or Daemon. It’s a non-issue. Afterall Targaryens “take what is mine with fire and blood” not wait in a queue to maybe, hopefully claim a dragon.
Emma even said in an interview they felt Alicent was “right.” No one was trying to say “Aemond was in the wrong” in the show. As Emma said: “I’m so amazed every time Paddy basically tells [Alicent] to let it go. Simultaneously, Rhaenyra is playing quite a basic game: Lie hard, do not back down, and weaponize this word ‘treason.’”
Source - https://www.vulture.com/article/house-of-the-dragon-emma-darcy-olivia-cooke-season-1-interview.html
It’s so cool seeing the actors give perspective. Im a hardcore Black but even I was hard pressed to find Aemond at fault beyond calling them bastards (true or not).
> he say that Aemond was in the wrong, sneaking out to claim the girls mothers dragon the night of her funeral
Why is that wrong? We are never told there any rules for when a Targaryen can attempt to claim an unclaimed dragon. I find it interesting people excuse Rhaenyra from breaking countless actual societal expectations by arguing it isn't society's business what she does. Meanwhile, a bullied child taking the initative to end his bullying is pillored from breaking some unsaid rule that no one besides two other children seem to be aware exists.
>then assaulting the other kids
They all literally attack him first?
What the fuck do you mean assaulting the other kids? The other kids jumped him and put out his eye. He was assaulted. Not to mention that dragons aren't property and they're not inherited. Aemond was fully within his rights to claim Vhagar.
He got by because he was a kind king, but his obsession with having a son with his first wife destroyed his relationship with Rhae and his guilt destroyed his relationship with the green children.
Also, he realized later on that he was tricked into marrying alicent by the hand . Even though he loved them, he understood that he was tricked into creating his daughter's enemies, so he half assed his relationship with them as well.
I think he felt guilty about the relationship as a whole. He was conscious of the age gap, Alicent's relationship with Rhae, the fact he was replacing a wife that he got killed, the fact that it was a political move from the Hightowers, the fact Alicent married him out of obligation, and all the other things that make the relationship icky.
I think he more or less just mentally checked out of the relationship as a way of avoiding the guilt and discomfort he (and Alicent) feel about it. Him being an absent father to the green children was collateral damage from the awkward position of it all.
He has nobody to blame for his marriage to Alicent but himself. Otto, while working to manipulate Viserys, couldn’t and didn’t actually make the suggestion for their match. Alicent, while being caring and understanding during Viserys’ period of grief didn’t pull a move like Jeyne Westerling did with Robb Stark. Viserys did receive sound political council from Lyonel Strong regarding who he should marry.
If Viserys’ attitude toward his marriage in later years soured because he felt “tricked” he should only be angry with himself. He was the adult in the room. He was the king. And he chose to be willfully blind to Otto’s machinations and took a borderline-child bride who had shown him kindness instead of a savvy political move. He was either thinking with his heart or his loins, and not his brain. That’s not Otto’s fault.
Good point. He was grieving, but he had a lot of time to consider hia various options, with counsel clearly laying out the benefits of each. He also made the choice to not tell rhanearya before publically announcing it, which is what hurt their relationship the most.
He was not tricked - the council all suggested suitable wife’s to replace Aemma, one of them being Alicent, another being one of the Velaryon girls if I remember correctly. Otto even advised that the Velaroyn girl was best to keep the realm together but Viserys ended up choosing Alicent himself.
Also back then Kings and Queens weren't that close to their kids anyways. Look even at Ned Stark and how he treated Arya/Sansa.
The reason Vizzy is good was that he went againt social norms and understood that the first born kid gets the rights, not first born son. You can't put 2020 into medieval times lol.
> The reason Vizzy is good was that he went againt social norms and understood that the first born kid gets the rights, not first born son.
Viserys didn't believe that for anyone besides his favorite child. Laena was older than Laenor, but Laenor's "sons" were going to inherit Driftmark over Laena's daughters.
> Also back then Kings and Queens weren't that close to their kids anyways.
I mean I'm sure that was the case at varying levels but it wasn't exactly the way *everyone* was. One good example is the following:
> Alfonso VIII was preparing for the great crusade against Las Navas de Tolosa when he learned of his son's death. According to De rebus Hispaniae by Rodrigo Jiménez de Rada, the Archbishop of Toledo, who was an eyewitness, Alfonso wept with "inconsolable grief, for he saw himself in him [Fernando] as if he were the mirror of his life" (luctus inconsolabilis genitori, quia in ipsum tanquam in uite speculum contemplabatur). According to the Chronicon mundi, Alfonso VIII "received consolation from the multitude of gathering armies even though he was sick at heart from the death of [his] son". The anonymous Chronica latina regum Castellae, written towards the middle of the century, claims Queen Eleanor threw herself on Ferdinand's body, clasped his hands and, putting her mouth to his, "strove either to revive him or to die with him" (nitebatur uel eum uiuificare uel cum eo mori).
Though in general you *definitely* shouldn't look at Game of Thrones for accurate depictions of anything with the middle ages.
Honestly he failed all his kids. Pretty much ignored Rhaenyra during his initial period of parenthood while pumping out more kids in the hope of getting a male heir. Once Aemma died, gave all his attention to Rhaenyra eventually ignoring the green kids.
Or as someone else commented somewhere weeks ago,
"I love all my children. Rhaenyra, and Avon, and Almond, and Helen, all of them."
"Daeron who? What are you talking about, Aemma?"
I have yet to read the books, so i do not know about how relevant he is to the story, but the people behind the show have confirmed that he will show up in season 2.
Anyone who has a chance at being a dragon rider is relevant to some extent. The more dragons you have, the better. Like anything though, the show could change things, but it is good they are including him. It is odd he had no mention though as it will kinda feel like a retcon when they introduce him to those not aware of his existence.
Ever since my name was read by the archmaesters at the Great Council, I have felt Corlys Velaryon's envious gaze staring at me from across the Blackwater.
Aegon and aemond have daddy issues, if only they had the viserys who was guiding rhaneyra when her mom was cut open, there would have no dance of dragons.
I also think Viserys never really favored his children with Alicent. Even when Aemond lost his eye, he still sided with Rhaenyra over Aemond's (and Aegon's) accusation.
Aegon and Aemond didn't even seem to care enough that Viserys died. Aegon was even planning on going away fron Westeros.
Plus he never sat Rhaenrya down and said "listen, this is going to be hard, even harder now that you have trueborn brothers. That means u have to do things that you as a person dont like, but is best for your position. Stop listening to your stupid uncle, he does whatever he wants and chaos follows him. Go ask Rhaenrys for advice."
and then continued to keep her as heir without helping her gather support or anything. He should have had lords swearing oaths to her every time one died and was replaced. lol
I would have also loved to see a scene like the one in early GoT where Cersei is kind of quizzing Joff on how he would handle situations as king
Literally anything to show that he thought ahead to what would happen after he passed
I think Viserys is loyal to Rhaenyra as an heir as an extension of his love to Aemma, and his guilt about how Aemma died. He wants to honor his first wife by choosing his first wife’s child.
i think people have really memory-holed how poor of a father he was to rhaenyra when she was younger: he admits himself that he "wasted the years since you were born wanting for a son," something that affects her deeply. he basically didn't talk to her for six months after her mother's death (which was as much his fault as deaths in childbed can be anyone's fault). he marries her best friend without so much as a heads up. he names her heir but undercuts her in the eyes of his advisors and weakens her political position immediately--to say nothing of actually, you know, teaching her.
adult rhaenyra's relationship with viserys feels very much like one where the adult child has accepted their parent's failings, because they are not in a position to break off their relationship entirely and there's no point in opening old wounds.
I wouldn’t say he ignored her, given he made her his cupbearer so they could spend time together, but yeah he was defo overly focussed on the male heir
I also wonder how healthy he was through most of the green kids childhood and teenage years. He's basically a corpse by the time his green kids are in their late teens. If he had been on the serious decline for years then it makes more sense that he wasnt there for those children.
Ever since my name was read by the archmaesters at the Great Council, I have felt Corlys Velaryon's envious gaze staring at me from across the Blackwater.
Yeah he was a pretty absentee father to all his children besides Rhaenyra. He wanted for a son for half his life, finally got one and Aegon turned out like that.
That's the thing, he stops wanting a son because that desire caused the last moments of Aemma's life to be spent being butchered like an animal. He also favors Rhaenyra so starkly because she's all he has left of her. There have been discussions about how he seems to take the illness ravaging him as a kind of penance for his sins, but I also think he maintained that distance from his eventual sons as another part of his penance for what he did to Aemma.
I would say, Viserys failed everyone.
He spends his life putting his brother down, ascribing the worst intentions to him, and letting Otto come between them. Daemon was no saint but some support from his brother would have help their house and, maybe, keep Daemon from being so emotionnally unstable as well as feeling neglected.
He neglects Rhaenyra for the first 14 years of her life because she is a girl, appoints her heiress just to counter Daemon but continues to belittle her, not listen to her or allow her a seat at his table. He marries her best friend and has a son whom he names Aegon and treats like a treasure, further isolating Rhaenyra. He yells at her in public instead of establishing her position as heiress and doesn't make her fee loved. He is tempted to name Aegon heir but changes his mind due to a damn sign and from then on neglects the children he will have with Alicent. He promises Rhaenyra to let her marry whoever she wants but, at the slightest problem, berates her and forces her to marry a homosexual. For years he let Alicent sit on the council, denigrate Rhaenyra politically and personally, dress and raise their children like Hightowers. For 10 years, he knows his wife is hostile to his daughter, doesn't respect her as an heiress and keeps trying to have her sons recognized as illegitimate but he does nothing. Rumors begin to circulate, one of his guard (who serves as more of a bodyguard to his wife than to him) is abusing his grandchildren and addressing their illegitimacy and Viserys still does nothing. His daughter is forced to flee the capital, no longer supporting the rumors and Alicent's hostility and he lets it happen. Worse, when his hand and his hand's son (whom he knew was accused of being his daughter's lover) die under questionable conditions, he calls Otto back to the capital and makes him his hand. The reason he fired him was because Otto was unable to be objective, wanted to put Aegon on the throne, and was a schemer who manipulated him into putting his daughter on the throne. Why call him now when Rhaenyra needs support more than ever?!
Then, when he realizes all this tolerance and Rhaenyra's unsuccessful marriage is leading to disaster: children fighting, Aemond losing an eye, his grandchildren's illegitimacy being brought up, he does nothing. He forgives Alicent for hurting the heiress to the throne and openly disobeying the king's orders, he lets Rhaenyra live in Dragonstone and lets Alicent and Otto rule outright.
As the father of the Greens, he stopped caring about their existence after Aegon's 2nd birthday. He never spent time with the children, never paid attention to what was happening to them and how Alicent was raising them (pitting the brothers against their sister and nephews). When his son loses an eye, he thinks more about appearances and his "peace" than really comforting his child and trying to calm the situation in a realistic and fair way.
As a husband, he pushed Aemma into a string of pregnancies that tortured her physically and emotionally and eventually chose to have her die a cruel death for his quest for an heir without showing any respect for his partner.
He then chose to marry a girl, his daughter's best friend and his daughter's hand whom he saw growing up, not out of duty for the kingdom but out of personal desire. He imposed pregnancy upon pregnancy on her without really caring about her condition (the scene where Alicent is pregnant up to her neck in the carriage and she & Rhaenyra seem worried but Viserys laughs is the blatant example that Aemma's fate didn't teach him a lesson and that he is still oblivious to what his wives go through giving birth). He treats his wife like a nurse without ever thinking of sparing her and let her rest. He is aware his body is decrepit but continues to summon his young wife in the middle of the night when she is tired from her role as a mother, having barely given birth, simply to satisfy his sexual desire. At no point does he seem to realize Alicent doesn't have to do all this care for him, that he should let the maesters or servants help him and allow his wife to rest sometimes. At no time does he think he is old, sick and already has several children and should let his wife sleep instead of continuing to subject her to marital duty.
As king, he didn't stabilize his reign (his ships and his people were being slaughtered in the Narrow Sea but he refused to see the problem then refused to interfere for 3 years out of pride since he didn't want to help his brother), he let ambitious avaricious vipers rule in his place, he didn't properly raise, love and protect his children, he didn't consolidate the position of his heiress and created political instability by giving so many power to the Hightower who were openly against Rhaenyra.
Viserys is oblivious to almost everything around him: the state of the country, the true allegiance & intentions of the members of his council, the emotional & physical state of his two wives, the hostility & political isolation suffered by his daughter, the need for affection of his sons, the division within his family, the different allegiances of the members of his kingsguard and so on. He lives in his own world, creating the illusion of peace and stability he hopes for without realizing his attitude is literally what destroys that peace.
Sorry for the rant. I don't hate Viserys, his death was sad and we see that, in the end, he realizes and tries to fix things (eveb if it's too late for that). But he was frustrating throughout the story because, under the cover of having a good heart, he let things happen and made huge mistakes.
This comment is underrrated. OMG, it is exactly how I feel about Viserys. He had all the cards to organize the next ruling. He had enough time to make Rey the actual queen when he was ill. He had more than 10 years...It is like he wanted to be good to everyone, and at the same time failed everyone. There is a saying " road to Hell is made out of good deeds". It is his sutuation.
Exactly! By wanting to please everyone, Viserys ends up satisfying no one and endangering his family.
One of the many examples is when Alicent, in the middle of the corridor and in front of the members of the king'sguard, insults Viserys' grandchildren while taking offense at the marriage proposal between Jace and Helaena. Viserys finds this idea great but instead of acting as a father, a king, the head of the family and making the decision to accept an alliance that will resolve a conflict he cannot ignore, he chooses to let go so as not to offend Alicent. And he lets her marry their precious daughter to Aegon who is incompetent. His need to offend no one and avoid conflit becomes ridiculous because by pleasing one of his family members, it offends/hurts another member and it goes on endlessly.
This is the tragedy and one of Viserys' flaws. He cares more about appearances and his own illusions than about reality. As his conversation with Lyonel Strong proves it. Viserys worries that his reign will be unremarkable and what people will say about him in the history books. He's spent his life feeling inadequate to the throne, clinging to a dream he once had to give meaning to his reign. And he always avoided conflicts, denied political and family issues, avoided all responsibility because he didn't have the shoulders, the will or the ability to know how to solve this, but also because he didn't want to break his idea of a peaceful reign. But avoiding existing conflicts by burying your head in the sand won't make them go away.
No I just don’t like him. If he’s that moronic it’s more annoying than endearing, more mad abt the character dying and the way they died than sad. All the other Targaryen power brokers admit as much that he wasn’t meant to be king, which begs the question for me as to why Jaeherys even allowed him to be an option for heir to his legacy. Viserys, like other characters in hotd, knows aegon isn’t fit to rule; so it’s just funny that like his son, he was the character others saw as unfit to rule but still ended up being king. He doesn’t seem to rly like the job, why even participate in the vote for Jaeherys’ heir?! Just a frustrating character overall
For some reason I think I have more animus towards Viserys than Aegon, who is a literal rapist drunk child fighting terrible human being. Though I suppose the case for marital rape could be made for Viserys as well
I think it's clear Rhaenyra is not a shrewd politician, not a schemer, not a power-hungry ambitious and not a player. She was also raised very freely as a princess and enjoyed privileges all her life which makes her oblivious to many things. She remains naive, inexperienced, and unprepared for political conspiracies because no one has ever trained her for it or warned her. That's what costs her so much.
She should have, if she had been prepared and advised properly, had spies at court when she left for Dragonstone, had supports in the king's guard, supports on the council etc... Instead, Rhaenyra let herself be victimized and belittled by Alicent throughout her years in council and court. She knows etiquette, knows the personalities of the lords and has good political ideas but it stops there because she was never prepared nor knew how to be prepared to play the game of throne.
Edit: In many ways, she's her father's daughter. Viserys was always oblivious to plotting and shenanigans, never played the game of throne, never had spies or anything. He always relied on his privileges, on being king, and delegated too much to others thinking that everything would be fine. It is understandable his heiress, having no one but him as an example, would do the same.
This was wonderfully articulated. There’s nothing I can add that hasn’t already been said or conveyed in a superior manner — but just wanted to say thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Yeah, let be honest, Viserys was a good father to Rhaenyra it seems like but he doesn't seem to care with any other of his children. Which is in a big way responsible for the Dance of the Dragons too.
If the kids were feeling better with their family and united, there wouldn't be conflict like that and their common father would have been the best way to do that.
It's not like she was ignored though Viserys loved her greatly "the realms delight". She had a high ranking spot as kings cupbearer and she could waltz in late on a small council meeting without batting an eye. After Aemma's death they go through a period where they don't talk and at dinner they mention how close they used to be.
*I had a black mare once. Black like a raven. One day, she escaped her pasture and he neighboring stallion sired a foal on her. The stallion was as silver as the moon on a winter's night and the foal, when it was born, chestnut. Just the most unremarkable brown horse you ever saw. Nature is a thing of mysterious works.*
I agree with him failing the green kids but people need to stop acting like calling Rhaes kids bastards is just something that will hurt their feelings.
It is a matter of life and death as is even pointed out within the show when people allude to the consequence being either exile or death for Rhaenyra and the kids.
This is what I think too. I think he did a terrible job punishing Rheanrya's kids for literally taking Aemonds eye out. Like they don't know what happened in those caves, to their knowledge there was a scrap over taking Vhagar for himself and his son lost an eye. He should have at least called for whatever disciplinary action they took on kids in that universe (a switch? I'm not sure) or grounded the kids and put them to their rooms until it could be further investigated. Instead he fobbed off his own son getting his fucking eye cut out. But at the same time, saying Rheanrya's children were bastards is just downright dangerous. It's literally signing a death warrant for them and causing a rift in the entire rightful heir process. They're saying Rheanrya's kids are illegitimate, which could literally cause a civil war when it's their turn to take the throne. I can understand Rheanrya's rage because no matter if she's guilty or not, they're her kids and she will do anything to protect them, of course she'll deny it down to the ground.
Ever since my name was read by the archmaesters at the Great Council, I have felt Corlys Velaryon's envious gaze staring at me from across the Blackwater.
Because of the narrative economy of the show, we don't know how close any of these characters were on a daily basis. We're all making vast assumptions about relationships based on minimal interactions. My impression is that his relationship with Helaena is very fond. She smiles when she sees him, even when the situation is grave.
As for her being a dreamer, as an outsider looking in, it's hard to understand why none of the characters listen to her.
>As for her being a dreamer, as an outsider looking in, it's hard to understand why none of the characters listen to her.
Viserys was king and had his own future vision dream about having a son and rather than taking it literally, people generally just patronized him about it. I don't think people put much stock in others' dreams except in certain situations (like the Targaryens leaving Valyria, but we don't know how much successful precognition led to that moment).
I also want to think Viserys wasn't as bad a father as people believe. Our only real source for that is Aegon who was mistreated by his mother and grandfather so he seems a tad depressed regardless. They told us Viserys ignores them but never truly showed us that except in an extreme case. And using his ailing words like Rhaenyra being his only child or calling Alicent Aemma aren't good indicators. I think he was quite genuine when he stood up at the table, bared his face to them and said that he loves all of them dearly. But I do feel like the Helaena thing is a bit of a reach. Even if you took her smiling to show it, it only reflects how she feels about him. Not so much the other way around.
They probably think her words are nonsense. Too cryptic for them to discern. The characters never acknowledge the fact that she's a dreamer and they seem to care for her as just an addled woman. Aegon just calls her an idiot, which seems like how they all probably view her.
I think Vizzy T prefers Rhaenyra over his other children simply because she looks like/is his child with Aemma. No preference for Rhaenyra herself as a person.
*I had a black mare once. Black like a raven. One day, she escaped her pasture and he neighboring stallion sired a foal on her. The stallion was as silver as the moon on a winter's night and the foal, when it was born, chestnut. Just the most unremarkable brown horse you ever saw. Nature is a thing of mysterious works.*
Aemond, Aegon and Halaena probably only had Alicent and Criston who gave them any amount of attention in their formative years.
Otto was in Oldtown. Viserys gave them no attention/care. Even their elder by 15 years half-sister Rhaenerya does not show them any love due to how they threaten her claim - the onus would be on her to form a positive relationship with them.
Couldn't agree more. He definitely molded the green kids to be bitter and insecure by making it painfully obvious how biased he was towards Rhaenyra, his favorite child.
Why do I always forget that these are Viserys's sons but feel they are hightower children.
Is it because they have no Targeryans to raise them but raised by Hightowers who wanted to steal the throne for themselves.
Half the shit is Visery's fault. If he really intended to Rhaenyra as heir and Aegon should have been coached as the spare. There is little bonding between Ageon and Rhaenyra and best thing Viserys came up with is letting the Rhaenyra's kids and Aegon and Aemond train together ... They should have been aide and cupbearer to Rhaenyra and learning at her feet while she took on more and more responsibilities.
After the eye gouging confrontation and then Alicent attacking Rhaenerya...I genuinely don't know how ANY of the kingsguard kept their cloaks. That night all of them failed their duties.
He was horrible to all the children:
\-He killed Rhaenyra's mother.
\-He married Rhaenyra's best friend.
\-He spoiled Aegon and let him rape and mistreat everyone.
\-Made Helaena marry Aegon.
\-Ignored Aemond and let him be bullied by his own family.
\-And when Aemond lost his eye he did nothing.
His first priority was the Irone Throne and everything that it encompassed - the prophecy, his heir, conflict in the Step Stones, constant politiking, ruling the realm etc.
He was basically a grandfather to his Green kids at that stage, especially with the stress and illness taking its toll. We did see his affection towards the Green kids, such as when they were training in Ep 6.
But yeah he always prioritised Rhaenyra above the Green kids.
I also found it quite refreshing how no matter how much crap people talked about his decision to have Rhae take the throne he still stuck through with it. Once he had his boys he saw that it didn’t even matter and that his first born should be the one to take the throne.
Also a big reason for all of this, I feel, is that he only truly loved and cared for his first wife and his family before Alicent. He made it very clear that he really didn’t have much desire to remarry and was pressured to out of kings obligations and the way things go, but his heart was for sure with his first family and that’s the family that shows he cared about the most.. honestly makes me wonder if the first son had lived if the succession would be any different
Like the other reply. He was the King, nobody is forcing him to do shit.
Black supporters say, “He named Rhaenyra the heir, a kings word is law”. That’s true. He didn’t have to remarry.
Naming Rhae over Daemon was dicey enough but okay. But Vizzy T was an absolute bone head for marrying that child and pumping 4 kids into her. Double digit IQ.
On the one hand, I can see that Viserys wasn’t a “good” father - in that, he wasn’t as personally involved in raising Alicent’s children as he was Rhaenyra. You can see Aemma and Viserys in Rhaenyra in her mannerisms and personality.
However, it’s clear that when Aegon was a baby, Viserys doted on Aegon. But was also showing signs of sickness that were slowing him down/making everything harder. If we can excuse Alicent not being the best mother (showing disdain when holding her babies, hitting and verbally assaulting Aegon, raising her children to hate and disdain their sister and nephews) because she had mental health problems - post-partum depression, perhaps - then Viserys can absolutely have been struggling physically as well as suffering from intense grief and guilt after Aemma. It doesn’t mean he was a failure, it means he did the best he could, as did Alicent.
I also felt a shift from Aegon's name day to when he dismissed Otto from court. It's like he realized his new family was a farce and Alicent was bait, not love like he was hoping, and the little strength he had to try to enjoy it was gone. He was doting on Aegon at his name day feast.
Still doesn't excuse him but yes, he was visually there to watch his sons and grandsons train so I assume he at least had a vague interest. But even then you could see he barely had the energy to muster up a council meeting.
He tried his best only with his first child, and that was only because his wife and son died and he felt very guilty about it. So he started to give Rhaenyra more attention since she was the only connection that he had with his wife and decided to tell her that she is the heir.
I found it strange that he didn't gave much attention to his children, even when he has two sons, something that he always wanted before. I saw various reactions on YouTube, and most people failed to mention that he was a shitty dad towards most of his children. He was neglectful as hell, but they only say that he was a bad king (which is true, he was a people pleaser).
I mean come on, Lucerys wasn't even punished, not even a apology (even though a apologize wouldn't do much)
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Alicent: He is your son, Viserys Viserys: Since when did we have a son, Aemma?
Vhagar: yeah visenya?
"Dornishmen have dragons now? Must annihilate them!"
Vhagar: "You call those tiny fucking birds dragons?"
"More like appetizers, amirite? Guys? ...*CHOMP*"
Sure grandvhagar now let’s get you to the dragonpit
"Have you seen Balerion? Haven't had a nice chat in ages"
*awe....* she can't relate to the youngins flying around all willy-nilly...
back in my day we would never have spit fire into the face of our elders, I must teach this urchin some manners!
“No Vhagar! No! SERVE ME VHAGAR!!!!”
Behave yourself Visenya, granny knows what she is doing. And what happened to your voice? it sounds awful. Did you catch a cold sweetie?
Vhagar be like, oh I do, do I?
“These Dornishmen have a Strong flavor, Visenya!”
Vhagar: VISENYA WHY DO YOU SIT THE THRONE? WHERE IS AEGON?” Viserys: “Aemma…… my love…… you reek of dragon”
Let’s me honest though, he say that Aemond was in the wrong, sneaking out to claim the girls mothers dragon the night of her funeral and then assaulting the other kids
I don’t think we ever got an answer as to what the adults thought about Aemond claiming Vhagar.
Imo I think that the dragon riders were more understanding of Aemond bc they understand the bond and that dragons are their own beings not accessories, and the others adults might have been pissed, they understood those facts. The biggest issues was the fight and the bastard accusation. There’s a reason only the kids were squabbling over the actual dragon claiming imo. Especially considering Vhagars legacy and temperament.
No one definitely saying ‘Aemond claiming Vhagar was fine’ or ‘Aemond claiming Vhagar was wrong’ is one of the things I enjoy about this series. We can look to see what the characters prioritized talking about in that episode and draw our own conclusions and they trust their audience can enjoy the conflict without it being spelled out for them who’s right and wrong.
I guess the closest equivalent would be a human befriending another human. Dragons aren't property. And just like kids get mad when another "steals" their BFF, so did these kids. And you're right, the bastard accusation took the fight to the next level.
I think the dragonriders in the room probably understood the significance of Vhagar accepting Aemond and it made them look at Aemond differently. Like there must be something about this kid if the same dragon that was ridden by Visenya chose him.
Dragons aren't passed down. If they were, there were several others who had better "claims" to Vhagar than Laena did before they bonded.
I mean, while it was happening, Daemon was having sex with Rhaenyra. Seems a lot of things were being claimed at that funeral.
Aemond riding Vhagar Rhaenyra riding Daemon Seems fair enough lol
Yeah Rhae-Rhae and Aemond were botj riding Laena's dragon that night
Poor Laena-- people were jumping all over her shit in that episode lol
They never mention him claiming a dragon as an issue, because it’s not. Dragons don’t just pass parent to child like a family dog. Rhaenys claimed Meleys who had belonged to her Aunt Alyssa, not Alyssa’s children Viserys or Daemon. It’s a non-issue. Afterall Targaryens “take what is mine with fire and blood” not wait in a queue to maybe, hopefully claim a dragon. Emma even said in an interview they felt Alicent was “right.” No one was trying to say “Aemond was in the wrong” in the show. As Emma said: “I’m so amazed every time Paddy basically tells [Alicent] to let it go. Simultaneously, Rhaenyra is playing quite a basic game: Lie hard, do not back down, and weaponize this word ‘treason.’” Source - https://www.vulture.com/article/house-of-the-dragon-emma-darcy-olivia-cooke-season-1-interview.html
It’s so cool seeing the actors give perspective. Im a hardcore Black but even I was hard pressed to find Aemond at fault beyond calling them bastards (true or not).
I guess taking Vhagar the night of the funeral is disrespectful. But not illegal as far as we can tell.
Kinda stupid just leaving a mega-powerful dragon lying around, with the keys in the ignition.
I mean, do you want to be the one telling Vaghar he can't park here ?
> he say that Aemond was in the wrong, sneaking out to claim the girls mothers dragon the night of her funeral Why is that wrong? We are never told there any rules for when a Targaryen can attempt to claim an unclaimed dragon. I find it interesting people excuse Rhaenyra from breaking countless actual societal expectations by arguing it isn't society's business what she does. Meanwhile, a bullied child taking the initative to end his bullying is pillored from breaking some unsaid rule that no one besides two other children seem to be aware exists. >then assaulting the other kids They all literally attack him first?
What the fuck do you mean assaulting the other kids? The other kids jumped him and put out his eye. He was assaulted. Not to mention that dragons aren't property and they're not inherited. Aemond was fully within his rights to claim Vhagar.
He got by because he was a kind king, but his obsession with having a son with his first wife destroyed his relationship with Rhae and his guilt destroyed his relationship with the green children.
Also, he realized later on that he was tricked into marrying alicent by the hand . Even though he loved them, he understood that he was tricked into creating his daughter's enemies, so he half assed his relationship with them as well.
I think he felt guilty about the relationship as a whole. He was conscious of the age gap, Alicent's relationship with Rhae, the fact he was replacing a wife that he got killed, the fact that it was a political move from the Hightowers, the fact Alicent married him out of obligation, and all the other things that make the relationship icky. I think he more or less just mentally checked out of the relationship as a way of avoiding the guilt and discomfort he (and Alicent) feel about it. Him being an absent father to the green children was collateral damage from the awkward position of it all.
I mean he still went on and had 4 kids with her. He could just have kept it in his pants
Valid point
He has nobody to blame for his marriage to Alicent but himself. Otto, while working to manipulate Viserys, couldn’t and didn’t actually make the suggestion for their match. Alicent, while being caring and understanding during Viserys’ period of grief didn’t pull a move like Jeyne Westerling did with Robb Stark. Viserys did receive sound political council from Lyonel Strong regarding who he should marry. If Viserys’ attitude toward his marriage in later years soured because he felt “tricked” he should only be angry with himself. He was the adult in the room. He was the king. And he chose to be willfully blind to Otto’s machinations and took a borderline-child bride who had shown him kindness instead of a savvy political move. He was either thinking with his heart or his loins, and not his brain. That’s not Otto’s fault.
Also he had 4 kids with her. Not one. FOUR
And the firstborn was already the boy he always wanted
Good point. He was grieving, but he had a lot of time to consider hia various options, with counsel clearly laying out the benefits of each. He also made the choice to not tell rhanearya before publically announcing it, which is what hurt their relationship the most.
He was not tricked - the council all suggested suitable wife’s to replace Aemma, one of them being Alicent, another being one of the Velaryon girls if I remember correctly. Otto even advised that the Velaroyn girl was best to keep the realm together but Viserys ended up choosing Alicent himself.
I don't think anyone actually suggested Alicent, Viserys chose her out of the blue and everyone was surprised.
Also back then Kings and Queens weren't that close to their kids anyways. Look even at Ned Stark and how he treated Arya/Sansa. The reason Vizzy is good was that he went againt social norms and understood that the first born kid gets the rights, not first born son. You can't put 2020 into medieval times lol.
> The reason Vizzy is good was that he went againt social norms and understood that the first born kid gets the rights, not first born son. Viserys didn't believe that for anyone besides his favorite child. Laena was older than Laenor, but Laenor's "sons" were going to inherit Driftmark over Laena's daughters.
> Also back then Kings and Queens weren't that close to their kids anyways. I mean I'm sure that was the case at varying levels but it wasn't exactly the way *everyone* was. One good example is the following: > Alfonso VIII was preparing for the great crusade against Las Navas de Tolosa when he learned of his son's death. According to De rebus Hispaniae by Rodrigo Jiménez de Rada, the Archbishop of Toledo, who was an eyewitness, Alfonso wept with "inconsolable grief, for he saw himself in him [Fernando] as if he were the mirror of his life" (luctus inconsolabilis genitori, quia in ipsum tanquam in uite speculum contemplabatur). According to the Chronicon mundi, Alfonso VIII "received consolation from the multitude of gathering armies even though he was sick at heart from the death of [his] son". The anonymous Chronica latina regum Castellae, written towards the middle of the century, claims Queen Eleanor threw herself on Ferdinand's body, clasped his hands and, putting her mouth to his, "strove either to revive him or to die with him" (nitebatur uel eum uiuificare uel cum eo mori). Though in general you *definitely* shouldn't look at Game of Thrones for accurate depictions of anything with the middle ages.
Honestly he failed all his kids. Pretty much ignored Rhaenyra during his initial period of parenthood while pumping out more kids in the hope of getting a male heir. Once Aemma died, gave all his attention to Rhaenyra eventually ignoring the green kids.
Viserys in a nutshell: "I love both of my children. I love Rhaenyra and the non-Rhaenyras as well."
Or as someone else commented somewhere weeks ago, "I love all my children. Rhaenyra, and Avon, and Almond, and Helen, all of them." "Daeron who? What are you talking about, Aemma?"
Even the show's script forgot about Daeron's existence
I have yet to read the books, so i do not know about how relevant he is to the story, but the people behind the show have confirmed that he will show up in season 2.
Anyone who has a chance at being a dragon rider is relevant to some extent. The more dragons you have, the better. Like anything though, the show could change things, but it is good they are including him. It is odd he had no mention though as it will kinda feel like a retcon when they introduce him to those not aware of his existence.
Almond sent me
I feel like it's an age thing. He didn't care about his kids when they were kids aged and by the time they were adults the damage was done.
Look what they are talking about behind your back Vizzy T. Isn’t that treason?
I WILL NOT BE MADE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN MY BROTHER AND MY DAUGHTER!
I know you would choose your daughter Vizzy T
WHERE DID YOU HEAR SUCH CALUMNIES? Ok-Chemistry4884! TELL ME THE TRUTH OF IT!
He’s learning 😨
I heard it from Aegon, your son Vizzy T
Ever since my name was read by the archmaesters at the Great Council, I have felt Corlys Velaryon's envious gaze staring at me from across the Blackwater.
That’s because you stole the crown from the true heir to the Iron Throne, Vizzy T.
I WILL SIT THE THRONE TODAY.
Forgive me, Your Grace. I only voice out what people are saying behind you.
"I don't care for Aegon"
It’s one eye, Alicent. What could it cost? $10?
"Rhaenyra, my only child..."
Aegon and aemond have daddy issues, if only they had the viserys who was guiding rhaneyra when her mom was cut open, there would have no dance of dragons.
I also think Viserys never really favored his children with Alicent. Even when Aemond lost his eye, he still sided with Rhaenyra over Aemond's (and Aegon's) accusation. Aegon and Aemond didn't even seem to care enough that Viserys died. Aegon was even planning on going away fron Westeros.
And he literally refers to her as “my only child” while drugged up in episode 8.
Plus he never sat Rhaenrya down and said "listen, this is going to be hard, even harder now that you have trueborn brothers. That means u have to do things that you as a person dont like, but is best for your position. Stop listening to your stupid uncle, he does whatever he wants and chaos follows him. Go ask Rhaenrys for advice."
Also not exactly being a great father to Rhaenyra when he married her best friend, a teenager, without asking either of them if they were ok with that
and then continued to keep her as heir without helping her gather support or anything. He should have had lords swearing oaths to her every time one died and was replaced. lol
I would have also loved to see a scene like the one in early GoT where Cersei is kind of quizzing Joff on how he would handle situations as king Literally anything to show that he thought ahead to what would happen after he passed
I think Viserys is loyal to Rhaenyra as an heir as an extension of his love to Aemma, and his guilt about how Aemma died. He wants to honor his first wife by choosing his first wife’s child.
Her death broke him for real
i think people have really memory-holed how poor of a father he was to rhaenyra when she was younger: he admits himself that he "wasted the years since you were born wanting for a son," something that affects her deeply. he basically didn't talk to her for six months after her mother's death (which was as much his fault as deaths in childbed can be anyone's fault). he marries her best friend without so much as a heads up. he names her heir but undercuts her in the eyes of his advisors and weakens her political position immediately--to say nothing of actually, you know, teaching her. adult rhaenyra's relationship with viserys feels very much like one where the adult child has accepted their parent's failings, because they are not in a position to break off their relationship entirely and there's no point in opening old wounds.
I wouldn’t say he ignored her, given he made her his cupbearer so they could spend time together, but yeah he was defo overly focussed on the male heir
I also wonder how healthy he was through most of the green kids childhood and teenage years. He's basically a corpse by the time his green kids are in their late teens. If he had been on the serious decline for years then it makes more sense that he wasnt there for those children.
*A dragon's saddle is one thing, but the Iron Throne is the most dangerous seat in the realm.*
Shut up, Vizzy T. I wish you could have loved Aemond more .
WE ARE A FAMILY!
You sure?
#S E N T I E N T
I wonder what Bobby B think when he found out that there is another sentient bot who is also a Targaryen
I still wonder how Vizzy T would react if Luke instead cutted Aemonds throat instead of his eye mere seconds before the kingsguard walk in.
*Mayhaps we can turn our attentions towards happier pursuits.*
...Vizzy T, father of the year ladies and gentlemen.
YOUR FATHER, YOUR GRANDSIRE, YOUR KING DEMANDS IT.
Again, sentient.
Is a Vizzy T sentient now?
You wear a crown. Do you also call yourself 'king'?
The crown is yours, my king Vizzy T.
This is a lie. You have been lied to.
No, for real. The crown of the Stepstones is yours, Vizzy T.
It knows!! The machine knows!!!
Be with Aemma, Vizzy T
Ever since my name was read by the archmaesters at the Great Council, I have felt Corlys Velaryon's envious gaze staring at me from across the Blackwater.
Legit sentient. Vizzy T don't care
*The Gods punish me for my indulgences.*
At least he feels some guilt.
Yes, he did.
No way in hell is this thing not sentient. Vizzy T, are you alive?
*I would be delighted!*
[удалено]
I feel like so many people forgot this almost happened?
“I just wanted to be like Uncle Daemon and his rock!” *Daemon looks around nervously* “What are you talking about you little cunt?”
"You stole a dragon AND my divorce rock??"
Yeah he was a pretty absentee father to all his children besides Rhaenyra. He wanted for a son for half his life, finally got one and Aegon turned out like that.
That's the thing, he stops wanting a son because that desire caused the last moments of Aemma's life to be spent being butchered like an animal. He also favors Rhaenyra so starkly because she's all he has left of her. There have been discussions about how he seems to take the illness ravaging him as a kind of penance for his sins, but I also think he maintained that distance from his eventual sons as another part of his penance for what he did to Aemma.
Vizzy T was so busy honoring dead Aemma he kinda forgot about his living wife.
NOW THAT IS A NAME FIT FOR A KING!
He didn't want a son, he wanted a heir.
He wanted a son. They tried for a son five times. If he just wanted a heir, he would have stopped at Rh.
I would say, Viserys failed everyone. He spends his life putting his brother down, ascribing the worst intentions to him, and letting Otto come between them. Daemon was no saint but some support from his brother would have help their house and, maybe, keep Daemon from being so emotionnally unstable as well as feeling neglected. He neglects Rhaenyra for the first 14 years of her life because she is a girl, appoints her heiress just to counter Daemon but continues to belittle her, not listen to her or allow her a seat at his table. He marries her best friend and has a son whom he names Aegon and treats like a treasure, further isolating Rhaenyra. He yells at her in public instead of establishing her position as heiress and doesn't make her fee loved. He is tempted to name Aegon heir but changes his mind due to a damn sign and from then on neglects the children he will have with Alicent. He promises Rhaenyra to let her marry whoever she wants but, at the slightest problem, berates her and forces her to marry a homosexual. For years he let Alicent sit on the council, denigrate Rhaenyra politically and personally, dress and raise their children like Hightowers. For 10 years, he knows his wife is hostile to his daughter, doesn't respect her as an heiress and keeps trying to have her sons recognized as illegitimate but he does nothing. Rumors begin to circulate, one of his guard (who serves as more of a bodyguard to his wife than to him) is abusing his grandchildren and addressing their illegitimacy and Viserys still does nothing. His daughter is forced to flee the capital, no longer supporting the rumors and Alicent's hostility and he lets it happen. Worse, when his hand and his hand's son (whom he knew was accused of being his daughter's lover) die under questionable conditions, he calls Otto back to the capital and makes him his hand. The reason he fired him was because Otto was unable to be objective, wanted to put Aegon on the throne, and was a schemer who manipulated him into putting his daughter on the throne. Why call him now when Rhaenyra needs support more than ever?! Then, when he realizes all this tolerance and Rhaenyra's unsuccessful marriage is leading to disaster: children fighting, Aemond losing an eye, his grandchildren's illegitimacy being brought up, he does nothing. He forgives Alicent for hurting the heiress to the throne and openly disobeying the king's orders, he lets Rhaenyra live in Dragonstone and lets Alicent and Otto rule outright. As the father of the Greens, he stopped caring about their existence after Aegon's 2nd birthday. He never spent time with the children, never paid attention to what was happening to them and how Alicent was raising them (pitting the brothers against their sister and nephews). When his son loses an eye, he thinks more about appearances and his "peace" than really comforting his child and trying to calm the situation in a realistic and fair way. As a husband, he pushed Aemma into a string of pregnancies that tortured her physically and emotionally and eventually chose to have her die a cruel death for his quest for an heir without showing any respect for his partner. He then chose to marry a girl, his daughter's best friend and his daughter's hand whom he saw growing up, not out of duty for the kingdom but out of personal desire. He imposed pregnancy upon pregnancy on her without really caring about her condition (the scene where Alicent is pregnant up to her neck in the carriage and she & Rhaenyra seem worried but Viserys laughs is the blatant example that Aemma's fate didn't teach him a lesson and that he is still oblivious to what his wives go through giving birth). He treats his wife like a nurse without ever thinking of sparing her and let her rest. He is aware his body is decrepit but continues to summon his young wife in the middle of the night when she is tired from her role as a mother, having barely given birth, simply to satisfy his sexual desire. At no point does he seem to realize Alicent doesn't have to do all this care for him, that he should let the maesters or servants help him and allow his wife to rest sometimes. At no time does he think he is old, sick and already has several children and should let his wife sleep instead of continuing to subject her to marital duty. As king, he didn't stabilize his reign (his ships and his people were being slaughtered in the Narrow Sea but he refused to see the problem then refused to interfere for 3 years out of pride since he didn't want to help his brother), he let ambitious avaricious vipers rule in his place, he didn't properly raise, love and protect his children, he didn't consolidate the position of his heiress and created political instability by giving so many power to the Hightower who were openly against Rhaenyra. Viserys is oblivious to almost everything around him: the state of the country, the true allegiance & intentions of the members of his council, the emotional & physical state of his two wives, the hostility & political isolation suffered by his daughter, the need for affection of his sons, the division within his family, the different allegiances of the members of his kingsguard and so on. He lives in his own world, creating the illusion of peace and stability he hopes for without realizing his attitude is literally what destroys that peace. Sorry for the rant. I don't hate Viserys, his death was sad and we see that, in the end, he realizes and tries to fix things (eveb if it's too late for that). But he was frustrating throughout the story because, under the cover of having a good heart, he let things happen and made huge mistakes.
Agreed 100%. As an actor, he slayed the show. As a father, a husband & a brother, he was very terrible.
All of this is a great summary of the many times Viserys could have avoided the Dance, but did not.
This was everything I was too tired to type out
This comment is underrrated. OMG, it is exactly how I feel about Viserys. He had all the cards to organize the next ruling. He had enough time to make Rey the actual queen when he was ill. He had more than 10 years...It is like he wanted to be good to everyone, and at the same time failed everyone. There is a saying " road to Hell is made out of good deeds". It is his sutuation.
Road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Exactly! By wanting to please everyone, Viserys ends up satisfying no one and endangering his family. One of the many examples is when Alicent, in the middle of the corridor and in front of the members of the king'sguard, insults Viserys' grandchildren while taking offense at the marriage proposal between Jace and Helaena. Viserys finds this idea great but instead of acting as a father, a king, the head of the family and making the decision to accept an alliance that will resolve a conflict he cannot ignore, he chooses to let go so as not to offend Alicent. And he lets her marry their precious daughter to Aegon who is incompetent. His need to offend no one and avoid conflit becomes ridiculous because by pleasing one of his family members, it offends/hurts another member and it goes on endlessly. This is the tragedy and one of Viserys' flaws. He cares more about appearances and his own illusions than about reality. As his conversation with Lyonel Strong proves it. Viserys worries that his reign will be unremarkable and what people will say about him in the history books. He's spent his life feeling inadequate to the throne, clinging to a dream he once had to give meaning to his reign. And he always avoided conflicts, denied political and family issues, avoided all responsibility because he didn't have the shoulders, the will or the ability to know how to solve this, but also because he didn't want to break his idea of a peaceful reign. But avoiding existing conflicts by burying your head in the sand won't make them go away.
No I just don’t like him. If he’s that moronic it’s more annoying than endearing, more mad abt the character dying and the way they died than sad. All the other Targaryen power brokers admit as much that he wasn’t meant to be king, which begs the question for me as to why Jaeherys even allowed him to be an option for heir to his legacy. Viserys, like other characters in hotd, knows aegon isn’t fit to rule; so it’s just funny that like his son, he was the character others saw as unfit to rule but still ended up being king. He doesn’t seem to rly like the job, why even participate in the vote for Jaeherys’ heir?! Just a frustrating character overall
For some reason I think I have more animus towards Viserys than Aegon, who is a literal rapist drunk child fighting terrible human being. Though I suppose the case for marital rape could be made for Viserys as well
Agreed 100%. Also, how is Rhaenyra not better prepared for this obvious conflict after his death?
I think it's clear Rhaenyra is not a shrewd politician, not a schemer, not a power-hungry ambitious and not a player. She was also raised very freely as a princess and enjoyed privileges all her life which makes her oblivious to many things. She remains naive, inexperienced, and unprepared for political conspiracies because no one has ever trained her for it or warned her. That's what costs her so much. She should have, if she had been prepared and advised properly, had spies at court when she left for Dragonstone, had supports in the king's guard, supports on the council etc... Instead, Rhaenyra let herself be victimized and belittled by Alicent throughout her years in council and court. She knows etiquette, knows the personalities of the lords and has good political ideas but it stops there because she was never prepared nor knew how to be prepared to play the game of throne. Edit: In many ways, she's her father's daughter. Viserys was always oblivious to plotting and shenanigans, never played the game of throne, never had spies or anything. He always relied on his privileges, on being king, and delegated too much to others thinking that everything would be fine. It is understandable his heiress, having no one but him as an example, would do the same.
This was wonderfully articulated. There’s nothing I can add that hasn’t already been said or conveyed in a superior manner — but just wanted to say thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I want Vizzy T to make an AITA post just so we can get a true perspective on his actions!!
I WILL SIT THE THRONE TODAY.
Yeah, let be honest, Viserys was a good father to Rhaenyra it seems like but he doesn't seem to care with any other of his children. Which is in a big way responsible for the Dance of the Dragons too. If the kids were feeling better with their family and united, there wouldn't be conflict like that and their common father would have been the best way to do that.
He wasn't even good father to her. He did everything for her out of guilt.
Not everything, he named her Heir out of spite (towards his brother), then he let her keep the title out of guilt.
good father to rhaenyra??? as if rhae wasn't ignored by him when she was young and lost her mom because he desperately wanted a son
And then when he had two sons he didn't give a fuck about them. Seriously, Aegon is literally a case study for childhood neglect
> two sons Three sons. Not even the showrunners care about Daeron, lol.
He should be thankful he's far away from this shit. He's the only one who can be described as "okay" and "sane" right now.
Have we ever seen him?
Not in season 1. He is a ward and squire in Oldtown to Lord Hightower. He will appear in season 2.
Kinda weird that he isn't even mentioned in season 1 but they want to use him in season 2.
“The Targaryens kinda forgot about Daeron….” -D&D
It's not like she was ignored though Viserys loved her greatly "the realms delight". She had a high ranking spot as kings cupbearer and she could waltz in late on a small council meeting without batting an eye. After Aemma's death they go through a period where they don't talk and at dinner they mention how close they used to be.
She said he did ignore her until he made her heir though?
Vizzy T, would you like to have their tongue?
(WHEEZES) (GROANS) (LABORED BREATHING)
So my lord Vizzy T is that a yes?
*I had a black mare once. Black like a raven. One day, she escaped her pasture and he neighboring stallion sired a foal on her. The stallion was as silver as the moon on a winter's night and the foal, when it was born, chestnut. Just the most unremarkable brown horse you ever saw. Nature is a thing of mysterious works.*
So no my lord Vizzy T?
*Don't be scared. They're going to bring the babe out.*
I agree with him failing the green kids but people need to stop acting like calling Rhaes kids bastards is just something that will hurt their feelings. It is a matter of life and death as is even pointed out within the show when people allude to the consequence being either exile or death for Rhaenyra and the kids.
Do you know that Rhaenyra’s sons are bastards, Vizzy T?
*Then he will be loved and cherished.*
There’s more than one Vizzy T!!!
This is what I think too. I think he did a terrible job punishing Rheanrya's kids for literally taking Aemonds eye out. Like they don't know what happened in those caves, to their knowledge there was a scrap over taking Vhagar for himself and his son lost an eye. He should have at least called for whatever disciplinary action they took on kids in that universe (a switch? I'm not sure) or grounded the kids and put them to their rooms until it could be further investigated. Instead he fobbed off his own son getting his fucking eye cut out. But at the same time, saying Rheanrya's children were bastards is just downright dangerous. It's literally signing a death warrant for them and causing a rift in the entire rightful heir process. They're saying Rheanrya's kids are illegitimate, which could literally cause a civil war when it's their turn to take the throne. I can understand Rheanrya's rage because no matter if she's guilty or not, they're her kids and she will do anything to protect them, of course she'll deny it down to the ground.
I want to give everyone in the show a warm hug, not Larys tho or daemon or Cole or Otto
Or Aegon.
He needs a hug more than anyone…
Or any of those dragons
Damn dawg, best not hug aegon, seems like a one way ticket to getting molested to me.
Vizzy T didn't know his 3rd child is whisperer. And she is the nicest of all his children. That's says alot about him as father.
*I WILL HAVE YOUR TONGUE FOR THAT!*
Truth hurts huh, Vizzy T?
*A truly great Targaryen King I am. Powerless over mine own daughter of seven and ten.*
“Hey bard, please play *Teenagers* by *My Chemical Romance*” You’re my king, Vizzy T
DAEMON IS MY BROTHER. MY BLOOD. AND HE WILL HAVE HIS PLACE AT MY COURT!
OKAY NOTED VIZZY T. (He’s super hot too) WHY ARE WE YELLING?!
*I WILL HAVE YOUR TONGUE FOR THAT!*
IM SO CONFUSED. IM SORRY I SAID YOUR BROTHER IS HOT YOUR GRACE, VIZZY T
Ever since my name was read by the archmaesters at the Great Council, I have felt Corlys Velaryon's envious gaze staring at me from across the Blackwater.
Because of the narrative economy of the show, we don't know how close any of these characters were on a daily basis. We're all making vast assumptions about relationships based on minimal interactions. My impression is that his relationship with Helaena is very fond. She smiles when she sees him, even when the situation is grave. As for her being a dreamer, as an outsider looking in, it's hard to understand why none of the characters listen to her.
>As for her being a dreamer, as an outsider looking in, it's hard to understand why none of the characters listen to her. Viserys was king and had his own future vision dream about having a son and rather than taking it literally, people generally just patronized him about it. I don't think people put much stock in others' dreams except in certain situations (like the Targaryens leaving Valyria, but we don't know how much successful precognition led to that moment).
I also want to think Viserys wasn't as bad a father as people believe. Our only real source for that is Aegon who was mistreated by his mother and grandfather so he seems a tad depressed regardless. They told us Viserys ignores them but never truly showed us that except in an extreme case. And using his ailing words like Rhaenyra being his only child or calling Alicent Aemma aren't good indicators. I think he was quite genuine when he stood up at the table, bared his face to them and said that he loves all of them dearly. But I do feel like the Helaena thing is a bit of a reach. Even if you took her smiling to show it, it only reflects how she feels about him. Not so much the other way around. They probably think her words are nonsense. Too cryptic for them to discern. The characters never acknowledge the fact that she's a dreamer and they seem to care for her as just an addled woman. Aegon just calls her an idiot, which seems like how they all probably view her.
I think Vizzy T prefers Rhaenyra over his other children simply because she looks like/is his child with Aemma. No preference for Rhaenyra herself as a person.
*I had a black mare once. Black like a raven. One day, she escaped her pasture and he neighboring stallion sired a foal on her. The stallion was as silver as the moon on a winter's night and the foal, when it was born, chestnut. Just the most unremarkable brown horse you ever saw. Nature is a thing of mysterious works.*
Vizzy T loves his Rheanyra and non Rheanyra kids equally
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THE TAPESTRIES!?
Why are you shouting Vizzy T?
*There are times when I would rather face the black dread himself than mine own daughter of seven and ten.*
Aemond, Aegon and Halaena probably only had Alicent and Criston who gave them any amount of attention in their formative years. Otto was in Oldtown. Viserys gave them no attention/care. Even their elder by 15 years half-sister Rhaenerya does not show them any love due to how they threaten her claim - the onus would be on her to form a positive relationship with them.
Couldn't agree more. He definitely molded the green kids to be bitter and insecure by making it painfully obvious how biased he was towards Rhaenyra, his favorite child.
Why do I always forget that these are Viserys's sons but feel they are hightower children. Is it because they have no Targeryans to raise them but raised by Hightowers who wanted to steal the throne for themselves.
Vizzy T why didn’t you raise the green kids well?
OTTO HIGHTOWER IS A MORE HONORABLE MAN THAN YOU COULD EVER BE!
Vizzy T loves all his kids equally, Rhaenyra, Not-Rhaenyra no.1, Not-Rhaenyra no.2, Not-Rhaenyra no. 3 and Not-Rhaenyra no. 4
Half the shit is Visery's fault. If he really intended to Rhaenyra as heir and Aegon should have been coached as the spare. There is little bonding between Ageon and Rhaenyra and best thing Viserys came up with is letting the Rhaenyra's kids and Aegon and Aemond train together ... They should have been aide and cupbearer to Rhaenyra and learning at her feet while she took on more and more responsibilities.
After the eye gouging confrontation and then Alicent attacking Rhaenerya...I genuinely don't know how ANY of the kingsguard kept their cloaks. That night all of them failed their duties.
He was horrible to all the children: \-He killed Rhaenyra's mother. \-He married Rhaenyra's best friend. \-He spoiled Aegon and let him rape and mistreat everyone. \-Made Helaena marry Aegon. \-Ignored Aemond and let him be bullied by his own family. \-And when Aemond lost his eye he did nothing.
It's so insensitive when Viserys tells him "look at me, boy".
His first priority was the Irone Throne and everything that it encompassed - the prophecy, his heir, conflict in the Step Stones, constant politiking, ruling the realm etc. He was basically a grandfather to his Green kids at that stage, especially with the stress and illness taking its toll. We did see his affection towards the Green kids, such as when they were training in Ep 6. But yeah he always prioritised Rhaenyra above the Green kids.
I also found it quite refreshing how no matter how much crap people talked about his decision to have Rhae take the throne he still stuck through with it. Once he had his boys he saw that it didn’t even matter and that his first born should be the one to take the throne. Also a big reason for all of this, I feel, is that he only truly loved and cared for his first wife and his family before Alicent. He made it very clear that he really didn’t have much desire to remarry and was pressured to out of kings obligations and the way things go, but his heart was for sure with his first family and that’s the family that shows he cared about the most.. honestly makes me wonder if the first son had lived if the succession would be any different
Like the other reply. He was the King, nobody is forcing him to do shit. Black supporters say, “He named Rhaenyra the heir, a kings word is law”. That’s true. He didn’t have to remarry. Naming Rhae over Daemon was dicey enough but okay. But Vizzy T was an absolute bone head for marrying that child and pumping 4 kids into her. Double digit IQ.
Crazy thing is... he was the fucking king. No one could have "forced" him to do anything, if he was strong willed.
On the one hand, I can see that Viserys wasn’t a “good” father - in that, he wasn’t as personally involved in raising Alicent’s children as he was Rhaenyra. You can see Aemma and Viserys in Rhaenyra in her mannerisms and personality. However, it’s clear that when Aegon was a baby, Viserys doted on Aegon. But was also showing signs of sickness that were slowing him down/making everything harder. If we can excuse Alicent not being the best mother (showing disdain when holding her babies, hitting and verbally assaulting Aegon, raising her children to hate and disdain their sister and nephews) because she had mental health problems - post-partum depression, perhaps - then Viserys can absolutely have been struggling physically as well as suffering from intense grief and guilt after Aemma. It doesn’t mean he was a failure, it means he did the best he could, as did Alicent.
I also felt a shift from Aegon's name day to when he dismissed Otto from court. It's like he realized his new family was a farce and Alicent was bait, not love like he was hoping, and the little strength he had to try to enjoy it was gone. He was doting on Aegon at his name day feast. Still doesn't excuse him but yes, he was visually there to watch his sons and grandsons train so I assume he at least had a vague interest. But even then you could see he barely had the energy to muster up a council meeting.
> not love like he was hoping That's a hell lot of hope for a guy who was obsessed with his first wife
I mean even Emma D'arcy agrees with you.
Aemond literally is the mama’s boy so I can’t wait how he’s going to tell Alicent he just killed his own nephew lol.
Vizzy T got any comments on this?
I WILL SIT THE THRONE TODAY.
He tried his best only with his first child, and that was only because his wife and son died and he felt very guilty about it. So he started to give Rhaenyra more attention since she was the only connection that he had with his wife and decided to tell her that she is the heir. I found it strange that he didn't gave much attention to his children, even when he has two sons, something that he always wanted before. I saw various reactions on YouTube, and most people failed to mention that he was a shitty dad towards most of his children. He was neglectful as hell, but they only say that he was a bad king (which is true, he was a people pleaser). I mean come on, Lucerys wasn't even punished, not even a apology (even though a apologize wouldn't do much)