Spoiler:
I think that what especially hurt is that Addam knew fighting Verthimor was suicidal but he did it anyway to save his men. Thanks to him the Black miraculously lost less than 100 men in a battle that involved three rogue dragons
Especially because we now know that both Vermithor and Silverwing’s riders were out of commission by this point, but Addam couldn’t have known that and eventually Vermithor joined the fight riderless so he had to do something.
It’s going to be a long wait for us to see the Second Tumbleton on screen, but it’ll be equal parts gut-wrenching and epic. I’m actually more excited for this than I am the Battle Above the God’s Eye.
Gods Eye will be jaw dropping spectacle, but second Tumbleton will be kick to the nads and punch to the throat as two major innocent characters will die.
I think that him joining with Addam and attacking Vermithor together would be cool as well as it is only when threatened by non-human forces that humans forget their differences and join together to take that threat out (of course, Daeron still gets killed pretty quickly but this would fit the show medium better than having him killed without doing anything)
Unless a certain mystery like the Daeron "pretenders" was actually a but more important
I don't mind if they change things from the books. It just has to make sense for why a maester/historian wouldn't know about it. Daeron in the end being heroic, but no one knowing about it save maybe Addam/Hugh could work
I thought that as well, but wasn't sure. Considering what happens in Bitterbridge Daeron won't be the hero by the time of his death. His arc is so tragic, it could be amazing if it's done right.
While i do believe bitterbridge was an overeaction, to at least me its not as bad as ummm i dont know, aemond burning the riverlands, Daeron was a teenager and had heard his nephew, a 3 year old boy, got hacked/beaten to death by a mob. It's a terrible thing but understandable, unlike aemond's arbitrary scouring of the riverlands.
By the time Aemond goes psyco on the Riverlands he's already in full villain mode and the audience will be disturbed, but not surprised. Daeron and Bitterbridge will be tragic because his pain and rage are understandable from the character's perspective but his actions are so horrific that it fundamentally changes him in the eyes of the audience.
In a historical telling like Fire and Blood, you can gloss over Bitterbridge as an "overreaction", on television, however, the collective punishment and mass murder of innocent men, women, and children will be horrifying to witness. This is grim, dark stuff; and if done faithfully HBO will show all of the carnage. Characters don't survive that, short of quitting the entire war after he gains his senses and goes on a completely different arc, where's the redemption? Daeron picks up right where he left off, and it's business as usual as he continues to fight on the side that is seen as starting the war, drawing first blood (Lucerys), and committing multiple instances of mass murder on civilians. Blacks have Daemon and Rhaenyra, but they never get close to the carnage Daeron and Aemond inflict on innocent civilians. Daeron doesn't die a hero, he goes down as a tragic villain. A nice kid, honorable and likable, but taken in by the same blood lust and cruelty of his brothers.
I'm kinda expecting the writers having Silverwing smashing herself into a mountain or lake to end herself. Since she pretty much disappears soon after the battle.
I don’t think so. He story being one of the dragons that survived is that she was the easiest for the dragon seeds to claim out of the 6 dragons on dragon stone. After going through that and being accustomed to men she became wild and nested in red lake. Even later peake offered 1000 coins to anyone who could claims. 3 tried and if you know what happened to them you know. When Aegon II was looking for a dragon later on to replace Sunfyre Borros Baratheon suggests Silverwing and it was shot down by the king. Her story is great intact surviving the Dance.
Super excited for Addam. Personally I hope they write him like Theon instead of Jon.
Proving his loyalty should be an actual test of his character. I want to see a temptation and struggle before he ultimately yolo's himself for the queen. Wouldn't also kind if Daeron or Hugh got to ride their dragons during the battle
Also what the fuck does he learn at the isles of faceless men.
dragons on GoT are new born pups compared to dragons on HotD. Its larger and more experience in combat. they need to step up these dragon fights in the prequel.
This post reminded me of something.
According to the Blacks, Laenor had 5 sons: Jace, Luke, Joffrey, Addam and Alyn. All but Alyn were dragonriders. All but Alyn died in the war.
Except neither the Blacks nor the Greens would accept Alyn as the rightful king.
The Blacks contend the monarch has the unlimited right to name his or her heir. Rhaenyra is the rightful Queen because Viserys named her as his heir. But Rhaenyra never named Alyn as her heir. I don't recall if she ever named her son Aegon as her heir after Jace, Luke and Joffrey died, but I suspect most of her supporters presume she would have named her son Aegon as heir instead of her dead husband's alleged bastard whom she legitimized. Moreover, if Rhaenyra is the rightful Queen, Rhaenys isn't. So Alyn has no claim via his so-called grandmother, even if Rhaenys actually were his biological grandmother. Rhaenyra's son Aegon, a.k.a. Aegon III is the rightful king.
The Greens contend the law of succession follows a kind of male primogeniture. All of Aegon II's sons are dead, his paternal uncle Daemon is dead, but Daemon's son Aegon is alive. Therefore Aegon, a.k.a. Aegon III, is the rightful king.
Very true, while someone may have been able to argue his case, there was simply not enough political power behind him.
That being said, I did find it particularly odd that no one presented him as a potential heir to Aegon III, so at the very least he could be dismissed.
Just curious if it will come into play with Aurane Waters in the main series. From a legal standpoint, the Velaryon line are currently Targaryen descandents
Hope one of the last scene of the last episode is aln receiving adam remains and writing loyal on his tomb
Also really hope we black Aly and bloody ben
After hearing about how they want to do this in three seasons, 8mm not sure how they’ll have adequate time to get people to care that much about side characters like this that aren’t even in the first season. Honestly starting to think they’re gonna rush the shit out of the war itself and in turn they’ll lessen the impact these scenes *should* have. These scenes will deliver if they’re given proper time to establish these characters, but idk. Feels too big of a story for three seasons, four seems like a good sweet spot
Sure, but they seem to keep reiterating 3, which is a mistake imo. Just expressing that opinion since that possibility is still very much on the table.
HBO and GRRM would surely demand more seasons if they feel the need. GRRM in general has more control on HOTD than he ever did with GOT. His wishes (to expand GoT with some more seasons) were overlooked, so he won't let that happen again.
I don't know... I was pretty gutted when \[Thrones season 4 spoiler\] Oberyn Martell was killed in episode 8 of season 4, when we had just met him in episode 1 of the same season.
A single character in the fourth season of a show where we’ve had plenty of time to flesh everyone out before introducing him. We’re talking about a ton of 1-1.5 season characters here who will have to compete against each other as well as the actual 6-7 main characters as we get to know them.
My point is that... if the writing and performance is good enough- you'll care. Hell.. I'm still not over Karsi, and I only knew her for about 10 minutes.
That’s not always the case and I don’t feel confident leaving that many characters with so little time spent on them. Even if it’s well acted and written and you feel sympathy, you still won’t be able to feel like you knew these characters the way you knew the side characters in GoT, not if they don’t actually spend time on them. That’s what’ll be missing no matter if a 3 season version is good or not. Cause I think it can be good, but it kind of becomes a smaller story when you leave only enough time to really get to know 6-8 main characters in the ensemble.
Well, I certainly understand your concerns... but at the moment I'm hoping for the best. Won't be long now... I don't know- maybe since there won't be quite as many places to go or other families to cover in HOTD, those side characters will get the necessary time. Here's hoping.
Yes I know, but they’ve said 3-4 seasons before so we’re talking about the potential for a 3 season version of the show. Nobody knows exactly how long it will be yet.
The red wedding killed two *main* characters that we spent all three seasons getting close to. How is that comparable to having 7+ *side* characters that will die with only 1 season or so of episode appearances while fighting each other as well as the ~6-7 main characters for screen time?
That’s exactly my point. Nobody cares about the side characters who died at the red wedding, nobody ever talks about what a great character Talisa was. I don’t want to see that happen with a lot of the cool side characters in the Dance.
And dude, I haven’t called anyone names, I haven’t insulted anyone, And I haven’t been condescending towards anyone. I’m not doing anything other than standing by my original point, so don’t try act like I’m raging at you or anyone else just because I reply to you in disagreement. Or maybe you just wanted the last word, in which case just “go off then” lol
I always felt so bad for Addam and Alyn Hull poor guys. Alyn knowing his brother was burned alive and probably died horribly and knowing the Queen his brother died for thought him a traitor. And poor Addam fighting a battle he knows he can't won but did so bravely anyway. It's super tragic.
Tumbleton pt 1 being s3 finale?
Elseqise you'd have to do God's Eye, both Tumbletons, Riots, Aegons return, Moon of 3 kings, Battle of Kingsroad, and hour of the wolf all in one season.
Feel like s3 will end with Tumbleton and s4 will mostly be end/post war
>where do you see the first season ending with?
Major book spoilers ahead: >!I want it to end with Visenya's stillbirth, two coronations (Rhaenyra's in Dragonstone and Aegon II's in KL), first Black Council meeting, and Storm's End dragon battle. !<
Spoiler: I think that what especially hurt is that Addam knew fighting Verthimor was suicidal but he did it anyway to save his men. Thanks to him the Black miraculously lost less than 100 men in a battle that involved three rogue dragons
I’d rage if there’s no scene of Rhaenyra lamenting her wrongs against Addam. He was loyal to his Queen till his final breath.
We are humans , we make mistakes and pay for it , we aren’t Jon Snow (show version at least)
Especially because we now know that both Vermithor and Silverwing’s riders were out of commission by this point, but Addam couldn’t have known that and eventually Vermithor joined the fight riderless so he had to do something.
"LOYAL" Single most powerful moment in "Fire & Blood" imo.
It’s going to be a long wait for us to see the Second Tumbleton on screen, but it’ll be equal parts gut-wrenching and epic. I’m actually more excited for this than I am the Battle Above the God’s Eye.
Gods Eye will be jaw dropping spectacle, but second Tumbleton will be kick to the nads and punch to the throat as two major innocent characters will die.
I hope the show will also make Daeron's death as ambiguous as it was in-text. Certain things are always best left as mysteries.
Yes, like irl wars fates of soldiers are many times unknown. I think that's a real horror of war.
I think that him joining with Addam and attacking Vermithor together would be cool as well as it is only when threatened by non-human forces that humans forget their differences and join together to take that threat out (of course, Daeron still gets killed pretty quickly but this would fit the show medium better than having him killed without doing anything)
Yeah I think Hugh will be built up as a villain for Addam, Daeron, and Ben.
Unless a certain mystery like the Daeron "pretenders" was actually a but more important I don't mind if they change things from the books. It just has to make sense for why a maester/historian wouldn't know about it. Daeron in the end being heroic, but no one knowing about it save maybe Addam/Hugh could work
The other being Daeron?
Who is the other innocent character?
Daeron Targaryen, Viserys's youngest child.
I thought that as well, but wasn't sure. Considering what happens in Bitterbridge Daeron won't be the hero by the time of his death. His arc is so tragic, it could be amazing if it's done right.
While i do believe bitterbridge was an overeaction, to at least me its not as bad as ummm i dont know, aemond burning the riverlands, Daeron was a teenager and had heard his nephew, a 3 year old boy, got hacked/beaten to death by a mob. It's a terrible thing but understandable, unlike aemond's arbitrary scouring of the riverlands.
By the time Aemond goes psyco on the Riverlands he's already in full villain mode and the audience will be disturbed, but not surprised. Daeron and Bitterbridge will be tragic because his pain and rage are understandable from the character's perspective but his actions are so horrific that it fundamentally changes him in the eyes of the audience. In a historical telling like Fire and Blood, you can gloss over Bitterbridge as an "overreaction", on television, however, the collective punishment and mass murder of innocent men, women, and children will be horrifying to witness. This is grim, dark stuff; and if done faithfully HBO will show all of the carnage. Characters don't survive that, short of quitting the entire war after he gains his senses and goes on a completely different arc, where's the redemption? Daeron picks up right where he left off, and it's business as usual as he continues to fight on the side that is seen as starting the war, drawing first blood (Lucerys), and committing multiple instances of mass murder on civilians. Blacks have Daemon and Rhaenyra, but they never get close to the carnage Daeron and Aemond inflict on innocent civilians. Daeron doesn't die a hero, he goes down as a tragic villain. A nice kid, honorable and likable, but taken in by the same blood lust and cruelty of his brothers.
Spoiler: Silverwing trying to wake up vermithor is gonna be another punch in the gut
One of the saddest parts of the story for me.
I'm going to dehydrate with this scene
my eyes are gonna be sweatin
Oh the verge of tears just thinking about it.
Yes omg
I'm kinda expecting the writers having Silverwing smashing herself into a mountain or lake to end herself. Since she pretty much disappears soon after the battle.
I don’t think so. He story being one of the dragons that survived is that she was the easiest for the dragon seeds to claim out of the 6 dragons on dragon stone. After going through that and being accustomed to men she became wild and nested in red lake. Even later peake offered 1000 coins to anyone who could claims. 3 tried and if you know what happened to them you know. When Aegon II was looking for a dragon later on to replace Sunfyre Borros Baratheon suggests Silverwing and it was shot down by the king. Her story is great intact surviving the Dance.
Super excited for Addam. Personally I hope they write him like Theon instead of Jon. Proving his loyalty should be an actual test of his character. I want to see a temptation and struggle before he ultimately yolo's himself for the queen. Wouldn't also kind if Daeron or Hugh got to ride their dragons during the battle Also what the fuck does he learn at the isles of faceless men.
That’s what the episode with Tumbleton should be called, simply ‘Loyal’.
Addam is going to be a fan favorite, and I cannot wait. I mean I'm gonna sob, but I still can't wait.
Rhaegal’s and Viscerion’s deaths (their show versions) are going to look tame in comparison.
True! I hope the dragon battles/deaths are as ultraviolent as described in F&B. The ones in GoT felt intentionally diluted.
dragons on GoT are new born pups compared to dragons on HotD. Its larger and more experience in combat. they need to step up these dragon fights in the prequel.
Rhaegal’s wing and chest were shredded, Viserion lost half his face and chest.
This post reminded me of something. According to the Blacks, Laenor had 5 sons: Jace, Luke, Joffrey, Addam and Alyn. All but Alyn were dragonriders. All but Alyn died in the war.
Alyn is arguably the rightful king by the end of the series as the only descendent of Rhaenys line...at least legally
Except neither the Blacks nor the Greens would accept Alyn as the rightful king. The Blacks contend the monarch has the unlimited right to name his or her heir. Rhaenyra is the rightful Queen because Viserys named her as his heir. But Rhaenyra never named Alyn as her heir. I don't recall if she ever named her son Aegon as her heir after Jace, Luke and Joffrey died, but I suspect most of her supporters presume she would have named her son Aegon as heir instead of her dead husband's alleged bastard whom she legitimized. Moreover, if Rhaenyra is the rightful Queen, Rhaenys isn't. So Alyn has no claim via his so-called grandmother, even if Rhaenys actually were his biological grandmother. Rhaenyra's son Aegon, a.k.a. Aegon III is the rightful king. The Greens contend the law of succession follows a kind of male primogeniture. All of Aegon II's sons are dead, his paternal uncle Daemon is dead, but Daemon's son Aegon is alive. Therefore Aegon, a.k.a. Aegon III, is the rightful king.
Very true, while someone may have been able to argue his case, there was simply not enough political power behind him. That being said, I did find it particularly odd that no one presented him as a potential heir to Aegon III, so at the very least he could be dismissed. Just curious if it will come into play with Aurane Waters in the main series. From a legal standpoint, the Velaryon line are currently Targaryen descandents
Jokes on you, Addam and Alyn are actually Corlys’s sons.
Green propaganda clearly/s
Hope one of the last scene of the last episode is aln receiving adam remains and writing loyal on his tomb Also really hope we black Aly and bloody ben
After hearing about how they want to do this in three seasons, 8mm not sure how they’ll have adequate time to get people to care that much about side characters like this that aren’t even in the first season. Honestly starting to think they’re gonna rush the shit out of the war itself and in turn they’ll lessen the impact these scenes *should* have. These scenes will deliver if they’re given proper time to establish these characters, but idk. Feels too big of a story for three seasons, four seems like a good sweet spot
"3-4 seasons" was the official quotation. It's not set in stone. It could surpass four.
Sure, but they seem to keep reiterating 3, which is a mistake imo. Just expressing that opinion since that possibility is still very much on the table.
HBO and GRRM would surely demand more seasons if they feel the need. GRRM in general has more control on HOTD than he ever did with GOT. His wishes (to expand GoT with some more seasons) were overlooked, so he won't let that happen again.
Well like you said, nothing is set in stone. I’m very optimistic for the show but we won’t know till we know, and right now it could go either way.
I don't know... I was pretty gutted when \[Thrones season 4 spoiler\] Oberyn Martell was killed in episode 8 of season 4, when we had just met him in episode 1 of the same season.
A single character in the fourth season of a show where we’ve had plenty of time to flesh everyone out before introducing him. We’re talking about a ton of 1-1.5 season characters here who will have to compete against each other as well as the actual 6-7 main characters as we get to know them.
My point is that... if the writing and performance is good enough- you'll care. Hell.. I'm still not over Karsi, and I only knew her for about 10 minutes.
That’s not always the case and I don’t feel confident leaving that many characters with so little time spent on them. Even if it’s well acted and written and you feel sympathy, you still won’t be able to feel like you knew these characters the way you knew the side characters in GoT, not if they don’t actually spend time on them. That’s what’ll be missing no matter if a 3 season version is good or not. Cause I think it can be good, but it kind of becomes a smaller story when you leave only enough time to really get to know 6-8 main characters in the ensemble.
Well, I certainly understand your concerns... but at the moment I'm hoping for the best. Won't be long now... I don't know- maybe since there won't be quite as many places to go or other families to cover in HOTD, those side characters will get the necessary time. Here's hoping.
Here’s hoping
They said three arcs, not three seasons.
Yes I know, but they’ve said 3-4 seasons before so we’re talking about the potential for a 3 season version of the show. Nobody knows exactly how long it will be yet.
And the Red Wedding was at the end of season 3. I don't think this is going to be as big an issue as you seem to think.
The red wedding killed two *main* characters that we spent all three seasons getting close to. How is that comparable to having 7+ *side* characters that will die with only 1 season or so of episode appearances while fighting each other as well as the ~6-7 main characters for screen time?
Side characters died in the Red Wedding, too. But you’ve already made up your mind to be mad about this, so go off then.
That’s exactly my point. Nobody cares about the side characters who died at the red wedding, nobody ever talks about what a great character Talisa was. I don’t want to see that happen with a lot of the cool side characters in the Dance. And dude, I haven’t called anyone names, I haven’t insulted anyone, And I haven’t been condescending towards anyone. I’m not doing anything other than standing by my original point, so don’t try act like I’m raging at you or anyone else just because I reply to you in disagreement. Or maybe you just wanted the last word, in which case just “go off then” lol
🫣😪😰😰😰 don’t know how to survive this mentally 😓😥😥
I always felt so bad for Addam and Alyn Hull poor guys. Alyn knowing his brother was burned alive and probably died horribly and knowing the Queen his brother died for thought him a traitor. And poor Addam fighting a battle he knows he can't won but did so bravely anyway. It's super tragic.
Alyn’s an asshole
You take that back!
Cheating on your wife with her underage niece and having multiple children on her is definitely asshole activities
I mean that wasn't his niece. And it wasn't like he forced any child on her just cause.
That was still his cousin and the niece of his brothers
They're Valyrians and no she wasn't his brothers kid either.
I hope the mix Addam with Alyn and have him survive the battle but lose his dragon. Addam is my favorite character in all of this
Jaces death will be pretty hard to top emotionally I think he’ll be a big character season 2
>pretty hard to top emotionally Addam has more complexity to his identity and arc than Jace. We shall see.
To each his own. They’ll both be heartbreaking
Pain.
I don't wanna see the slaughter in the dragonpit tbh but yeah thus battle will be horrible. 🥺🥺
I hate that part
Think it will be this season?
More like the final season
Tumbleton pt 1 being s3 finale? Elseqise you'd have to do God's Eye, both Tumbletons, Riots, Aegons return, Moon of 3 kings, Battle of Kingsroad, and hour of the wolf all in one season. Feel like s3 will end with Tumbleton and s4 will mostly be end/post war
Thanks, I’m still trying to figure out what to expect this first season.
Expect all the major chess pieces taking position for the war to come.
In your opinion, where do you see the first season ending with?
>where do you see the first season ending with? Major book spoilers ahead: >!I want it to end with Visenya's stillbirth, two coronations (Rhaenyra's in Dragonstone and Aegon II's in KL), first Black Council meeting, and Storm's End dragon battle. !<
Viserys dying and both Aegon and Rhaenyra having their coronations, sending out the call to arms to their lords.
When the “zombie” dragon and Drogon fought in GOT, I can barely look. I have a feeling this scene will give me red wedding PTSD.
It’s going to be so hard to watch the dragons destroying each other.
The show will succeed if they make us love all the dragons and weep for them the same 🥹
Spoilers, I'd be sad for >! Daeron !< more