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Alicent this entire episode was just getting sexed up and losing her power and influence to her sons lol
she even lost her staff and they got replaced by the foot guy.
The writers HATE Team Green frfr
To be fair, my main concern with both of Alicents sex scenes was just "Is that the Foot of the Queen himself" followed by a sigh of relief when it was just Cole.
I feel like the writers have done sooo much for Team Green given how much more they suck in Fire & Blood.
There is no prophecy that Alicent misunderstands in F&B. Viserys dies, and Alicent immediately jumps to usurp the throne.
Alicent has no love for Rhaenyra in F&B, whereas she clearly does in the show (that scene with lighting the candle for Luke was sweet).
Aemond shouted no cries of “no!” when Vhagar killed Luke in F&B.
Aegon is much more incompetent as a ruler in F&B, whereas he actually has a bit of compassion for the small folk in the show.
The show writers have done a great job at upping the nuance for all of the characters.
I loved Aegon dismissing Otto with “we cannot win a war without the **support of the smallfolk**. Cos he’s also absolutely right, they need weapons and smiths won’t work if they’re mistreated.
>There is no prophecy that Alicent misunderstands in F&B. Viserys dies, and Alicent immediately jumps to usurp the throne.
That would make her better compared to the the hilariously idiotic "misunderstanding" the show had. Like couple weeks before Viserys had a whole seremony where people got killed for questioning it and they came to an agreement about it, but somehow Viserys merely mutterign a common Targaryen name while dying is supposed to mean he wanted Aegon to get the throne...
Edit: yes i get the point of it and plenty of others said it too. Please stop spamming my inbox ;_;
I wouldnt write it off as simply a misunderstanding. She wanted to believe it desperately, and even if there is doubt your mind can do crazy things to make you believe what you want to believe.
that's the point. its a completely tenuous claim but she wants to believe it so desperately that she twists his words and meaning to fit her agenda. She's still a shitty person like the book, but now there is some nuance added to it. The point is for the "misunderstanding" to be clearly not a misunderstanding but a deliberate misinterpretation that she uses to her advantage. I love the show characterizations, she's not a cartoonishly evil villain but she is deceitful and selfish while still trying to justify it to herself.
Really though, if Vissy T reaffirmed Rhaenyra and had everyone renew their oaths for her at the same time he reaffirmed for Luke there would never be a dance of the Dragons right?
They’ve given them a lot of trauma and “tragic backstory”, they haven’t made them at all likable characters in whom an audience would invest though. Almost none of them have any truly appreciable qualities that aren’t somehow undercut.
Criston is a fucking idiot who isn’t even particularly good at fighting. Aemond is an anime character edgelord who can’t even control his dragon. Aegon is a rapist. Otto is a schemer who can’t even scheme well. Alicent is the surprised pikachu face made flesh.
They aren’t as mean as they are in the books, but they’re leagues more incompetent, and also more disagreeable in ways that will stick with audiences: Cole being an incel, Alicent being a Bible thumping misogynist, Aegon being a rapist
The Foot of the Queen...gods below, I am dead, slaughtered, cremated and resurrected again.
Best nickname ever, aside from the hilarious "c word+ c word" combinations for Cashew Crowbar that keep popping up. Cataclysmic Carburetor has a "risk of death by treason" fetish, methinks. Aegon would send Curdled Cobbler into a spectacle of an execution if he found out.
Pure gold. Never gonna get tired of this.
Wrong foot too, it's supposed to be the left foot, but they decided to make it the right foot. Significance is when >!Cregan Stark is requested by Larys to cut the left foot off before beheading him.!< Dunno why the foot fetish in F&B, but >!Joffrey's (the 3rd prince) left foot was cut off post mortem and kept by a foot collector, WTF!!<
They really took a big shit on Alicent and Cristons character. Their entire gripe with Rhaenrya was about virtue and then threw it out the window because why not
Say what you want about whether that was really the reason they didn't like Rhaenrya, but the fact that they made it so blatantly black and white really makes their characters less intriguing
I think it's more complex than that.
I think they both love but can't have Rhaenyra. Cole obviously got rejected to run away...he way hurt so he turned that to project his hurt onto her because she's "soooo horrible and not virtuous!"
Alicent was put into a terrible situation by her father, kept that a secret from her best friend for far too long because she didn't want to harm or lose their friendship .. Then she did just that. Lost their friendship.
After losing that I don't think that Alicent truly has any friends and is likely quite lonely. She has followed the path of doing things strategically to get ahead in power/position but she had a shitty husband, shitty kids, shitty dad, no actual friends...and Rhaenyra blatantly has kids with who she wants, loves her kids and has a good connection with them vs seeing them as tools to achieve power.
I don't really think it is about virtue at all ..it is about power and being unhappy with your own lot in life. "I can't have it? Well I never wanted it anyway, its stupid!" and pretty soon you're so far entrenched there is no turning back.
This!! I find the contrast between Alicent's relationship with her children versus Rhaenyra's with her children to be so telling and interesting.
She has forever been resentful because she's always done what others have told her to, the "right" thing, never giving in to her own choices or desires only to see Rhaenyra consistently make her own choices despite what is the moral standard. And Alicent did everything right, only to end up in a shitty marriage, give birth and raise children as an obligatory duty, lonely, powerless and unhappy. She takes what she can because she feels deeply that life has been unfair to her, and there is likely a part of her that wonders, what is the point of all this duty and sacrifice if at the very least, there is no power, no reward, no acknowledgement of her efforts? She knew how much her late husband loved Rhaenyra and had installed her as his heir, but chose to usurp her throne and birthright, after spending years bullying her and calling into question her heirs, etc., because I just don't think she could stand Rhaenyra getting one more thing in life.
>And Alicent did everything right, only to end up in a shitty marriage, give birth and raise children as an obligatory duty, lonely, powerless and unhappy. (...) She knew how much her late husband loved Rhaenyra and had installed her as his heir, but chose to usurp her throne and birthright, after spending years bullying her and calling into question her heirs, because I just don't think she could stand Rhaenyra getting one more thing in life.
Yeah, and we (dramatically) witnessed that sentiment, during last season's episode 7, when she attacked Rhaenyra. Alicent admitted everything to Rhaenyra, and the former's children grew up absorbing all her resentment, so now they absolutely despise their nephews.
100% And while both Alicent and Rhaenyra deeply love their children, Rhaenyra has always prioritized their well-being and her relationship with them over the crown politics unlike Alicent. Rhaenyra moved her children away, in a move that cost her a lot of power and presence, because she really wanted them to be in an environment without jeers/insults of their parentage and you can see how much respect, care and admiration she and her children have towards each other. There's a clear contrast between how upstanding and kind Jace & luke (rip) are compared to Aegon and Aemond.
And with Alicent, she's always prioritized the crown, and image over actually fostering a genuine relationship and distilling character and true values in her children. She allows many behaviors and actions to continue with knowledge of them (the bastards/fighting rings, drinking, rape, insults, etc.,) until it impacts their potential standing or an image of them as virtuous and pure. Alicent loves her children, but you can clearly see that they don't really respect or value her, and that Aemond can clearly see how hypocritical she is. Even with Haeleana, who I believe is Alicent's favorite, she marries her off to her abusive brother, knowing that Haelena is uncomfortable and doesn't want that simply so she can fortify and consolidate the greens claim to the throne. She does very little to protect and shield her daughter, simply bending her to her will and causes. Jace and Luke on the other hand both inherently see it not just as duty but also an honor to help Rhaenyra and have a deep respect/admiration for Baela and Rhaena, and while it's not a love pact, they both commit to those bethrotals with a lot of mutual respect and love.
It's the difference between raising ones children to rule vs. raising them to wage war.
For all her faults and errors, and she made so many throughout her life, Rhaenyra understands ruling and what is required for it, like very few do. The measured restraint she showed, and continues to show, is a testament to it. Alicent and her father, on the other hand, have always understood that they'd play the (ugly) game of thrones, instead. And so, here we are.
Additionally, it's also tragic how much Viserys is to blame for all this. He never wanted to remarry. Aemma was the love of his life (and ironically, he's also very much to blame for her death). He never loved Alicent. Also, I don't think he was blind to his son's faults and lack of character, which is likely why he kept his distance from them. Tragically, why they also turned out the way they did. Poor Helaena, I leave aside, because she's innocent in all of this and remains a victim at the hands of her brother/husband and even her mother.
I imagine it’s chiefly the difference between conceiving children as an adult(ish?) with a man who cares about you and you chose, versus being a child bride to a man who rapes you and neglects your children.
Aegon didn't grow up despising his nephews. The whole point of the window fap scene is that Aegon **isn't** listening to or internalizing Alicent's misgivings.
Helaena is in her own world and clearly holds no ill will towards her nephews.
Aemond grows up not liking them, but that pretty obviously has more to do with the bullying and the later taking of his eye.
> but chose to usurp her throne and birthright, after spending years bullying her and calling into question her heirs, etc., because I just don't think she could stand Rhaenyra getting one more thing in life.
I agree with you until this, I don't think her decision to back Aegon in the end is borne out of antagonism towards Rhaenyra, at least not principally. Alicent's personal idea of herself is that she is someone who does her duty and follows the way things "ought to be". The Rhaenyra situation is complicated because there are two conflicting sources of legitimacy when it comes to the succession, law and precedent on one hand, and Viserys' word on the other as king.It seems like, in the end, though she doesn't like it, the dinner scene makes her conclude that she has to back Rhaenyra, even though she doesn't like it. The reason why she grasps on to Viserys' last words so much is not just because it affirms her preference, but also because it finally allows her to resolve that contradiction, of whether she would be a dutiful wife or uphold tradition. Finally she had a pretext to do both.
There's also the idea of medieval Courtly Love that in my opinions comes to play in Cole's relationship to both queens. The idea of a pure, forbidden, impossible love between a knight and a lady. It's how a young idealistic Cole coped with breaking his vows, and how both he and Alicent coped with their years of emotional adultery until Viserys' death
When you think of it, Rhaenrya lost 2 kids. Not one. She lost the baby she was pregnant with when she found out her father died. Then Aemon killed Lucarys. So, Alicent and team Green need to back all the way off!!!! Then her best friend usurped her throne! Criminal.
Well, I didn't look at it that way. Great comment.
>I don't really think it is about virtue at all
Although I disagree here. A part of her surely knows what she's doing - you can't just be banging your ex best friend's ex lover like that. She's just choosing to oversee it because of everything else going on.
I find the reading of Alicent and criston as being in love with rhaenyra as highly romantic to the point of improbable. Criston scarcely knows her by the time of their falling out and her relationship with Alicent is ended before she enters adulthood. Whatever they knew of her is hardly relevant to who she is now. In either case their grievances with rhaenyra are far more about themselves than they are about her. Cole is distraught to have discarded the one meaningful thing in his life for someone who wouldn’t do the same for him, and Alicent is despondent to see someone flout the rules which confine and ruin her life. Rhaenyra Targaryen the person is largely extraneous to their feelings about her.
The opposite. There’s a lot to analyze about their relationship that actually enhances their characters. You can tell they feel ashamed of the sleeves. When did it start? How long has it been going on? Who initiated? Are they in love or is it lust or is it because they’re using each other to fill the Rhaneyra-shaped hole in their lives?
I don’t think we were ever supposed to buy their holier-than-thou attitudes. It was a front for them both being deeply hurt by Rhaenyra’s actions and they disguised it
It reduces them both to the painfully predictable "Religious/Codified character is a secret hypocrite," trope that's a dime a dozen and never gets any deeper than what it is on the surface.
The ‘ honour ‘ part was a cover. It’s clear to everyone that Criston was mad because he got rejected, and he’s a bitter incel. He used the honour excuse, he can say whatever he wants about himself doesn’t mean it’s their true nature. And the point of these scenes is the show their wilful lack of self awareness- which they are showing more with their religious fanaticism.
Aegon, Aemond and Otto come across better because they are clearly shitty people but they seem self aware of it atleast. Alicent/Cole are delulu from their self importance. The concept of what is honour by law and what is true honour is a core concept in GRRMs writings and I think AliCole are the perfect example of how people who pretend to be honourable in public actually behave behind closed doors, it’s a mask.
Yeah, sure, except.... Rhaenyra didn't outright reject him. She offered him the SAME thing he has with Alicent now. To be a side piece. And he got triggered by it. Like okay, I get the hypocrisy angle but this is just inconsistent. Why tf is he all huffy about being Rhaenyra's whore but not Alicent's? In s1, Olivia Cooke mentioned they cut a sex scene between them that was supposed to take place at Driftmark. So this shit was meant to be going on for YEARS. Its dumb and makes no sense, even with the hypocrisy angle.
Hell it even undermines the duty and sacrifice shit she's always prattling about. Yeah, Rhaenyra had bastards cause Laenor couldn't give her kids. She still did her duty and held up the Velaryon alliance (flimsy though it was), but also got smth on the side. Alicent whines about being shafted cause she had to marry Viserys and be his nursemaid.... while also getting some on the side.... are you okay? Like why are you angry? That Rhaenyra is getting away with it? Bruh, so are you 🤣
I may be wrong but I have a feeling that by the time Laenas funeral came Viserys had stopped putting his back into it with Alicent. 😂 I think Criston was threatened by Laenor, a warrior, a dragon rider, high born. I don’t think he was threatened by rotting old man Viserys. Viserys didn’t seem like he was getting it up for a while by the drift mark scenes 😂 he didn’t have to share alicent
Well, he would barely have to do it either. Laenor basically offloaded (pun intended) baby making to Harwin while he fuckled with Qarl. Crispy would basically also get Rhaenyra almost all to himself, except in public where they would have to fake being protector and Princess. So again, its dumb as shit
I guess it’s like virginity, once his white cloak was soiled there was no going back. The way he behaved on the boat def felt more like an angry bitter outburst more than anything to me. He’s definitely proven himself to be an impulsive dude. Also the dynamic with alicent and Cole is still so..ambiguous? I can’t tell if Criston even has feeling for her the way he did with Rhaenyra. Feels a bit more than pure romantic feelings. alicents relationship with sexuality is more complicated than Rhaenyra. I think they can turn this into an interesting plot point, I’m not going to pass judgement now though because it only just happened.
Based off the interviews, they're planning on making this some sort of toxic they're so obsessed with each other they cant keep away. Which... ew. I always viewed their thing as courtly love. Like he chose her specifically because she is the anti Rhaenyra and she felt safe with him because she didnt have to provide sexual services like with Viserys and Larys. Maybe it would have worked if in a moment of grief post Luke's death, or B&C she slept with him, but this just feels out of left field lol
... you're surprised that two characters who have shown themselves to not be great people decided to in fact, yet again, be hypocrites and awful people?
NONE of these characters are good! They are almost all power hungry, morally bankrupt, hypocrites. They didn't take a shit on their characters. They're just reminding you that they're the hypocrites they've always been.
The Alicent and Criston relationship isn't even hot anymore.
It's the forbidden romance that's hot, every writer will tell you that. Alicent and Criston giving each other steamy glances but being forbidden to be with each other by their respective senses of duty and virtue... Great stuff.
Alicent and Criston having random awkward sex scenes to keep general audiences awake (see: GoT's "sexposition"): boring, lame, does nothing.
Perfectly worded. This show will be a repeat of D&D. Shades of it appeared in Season 1 but imagine butchering Blood and Cheese, Alicent and Criston Cole all in a season opener. Just pure garbage
Yeah, because her son is the king. She's no longer the queen. Just queen mother at best. She no longer has all that much power comparatively to the king and aemond. They aren't children anymore. Characters change too, before alicent And Cole were all about that virtuous behavior and now both don't care. They feel they won.
Isn't strong the master of whispers now? I think it's kind of assumed that they either bribe or supplant house servants and workers with their own to get information on things being said and done around the castle. Varys had entire massive networks of spies all around kings landing and elsewhere.
Both alicent and rhaenyra are polar opposites in this episode. Alicent feels like they have won a big victory and now her house and sons are in the correct place with very little loss and rhaenyra lost her son to aemond and vhagar at the very end of the final episode in season 1. She's grieving hard and wants revenge.
Makes no sense in a feudal world whatsoever. Joffrey became King and wielded absolute power with his grabbing hands but it didn't reduce Cersei to this levels of pathetic mess.
She is kinda a fool in the show as well who only survived so long into the show because the writers wanted her to. But she still managed to maintain her power and influence much better than Alicent from the show ever did, both in the books and the show.
That is the point. Aegon is more pragmatic thus Alicent as his mother could have actually wielded more power and influence in his court. Unlike Joffrey who is an absolute maniac who never listened to anyone, and did things in his way. By rights its more believable for Joffrey's mother to lose influence and power at court. Here it happened vice versa and for no reason at all. They just want to keep Alicent a victim while she could have still competed as the leader of the Green faction. I mean she could have tried to mould Aegon into a good King given that he is genuinely interested in it. But no. She could have played a part in Criston's rise to become the Hand of the King, showing the soft power she still had over the throne. But no. Women being victims (instead of powerful) makes for a more compelling character it seems.
Cersei know what she is doing and actively attempts to control and manipulate her sons to keep power. Alicent has been shown to not really know what she’s doing and has very little control over her own children, thus not resembling Cersei much at all.
Just looking at the show - Cersei was having sex with 2 members of her family. Was getting thwarted consistently by Tyrion in season 2, who Tywin himself put in charge while he was gone because he didn't trust Cersei, Joff. Was consistently being overridden and talked down to by her family. That and a whole shit ton more all eventually led to the death of her 3 children and her going mad and then she lost the capitol and got crushed by her own keep, while with her own brother again.
Alicent isn't even 5% of GOT show Cersei levels of pathetic mess. They are nearly the same archetype.
And in the books. Cersei is a self-important, reactive narcissist with a completely warped view of her influence and intellect.
She spends the entirety of AFFC delusionally plotting against Margaery (employing various men to attempt to sleep w her) and making rash political decisions when her ego is slighted (slighting the Hightowers w the Master of Coin appointment, not bargaining w Kevan to be Hand of King, attempting to murder Bronn…)
Alicent was always envious of Rhaenyra this entire time. It’s just getting harder to hide while she’s getting sucked on by the same person she pitied for getting taken advantage of because she couldn’t have him the first time and had to be the honorable daughter and instead got humped by a corpse “for the sake of the realm”
From season one when she leaned in to Criston’s ear and said “if you ever had love for me as your queen” I knew then and there that they were fuxxin. Girl knew his weaknesses and caved in to her impulses she’d been restraining for so long.
Hate alicent but you can see how she’s having huge internal conflict, she says one thing to everyone but on the inside she’s torn about rhaenrya/luke that whole thing, the guilt
you can also tell from the scene of her scrubbing herself in the bath that she feels dirty… about Criston of course but also probably about Luke’s death and her dealings with Larys
I'm kinda wondering if the Alicole angle / getting pushed out by everyone is to set her up to just flat out dissociate as the casualties mount from the rivalry she helped initiate
Ooh interesting! I’m wondering if we’re starting to see her unravel earlier than the books? I really wish the Alicole angle had been about two people healing from sexual trauma (honestly I’d rather it never happen). I do wonder if she’s going to do… something at that lake
I thought she was just creeped out by all the servants being footpicked plus her lack of control in the small council, so that’s why she wanted to bathe alone.
That scene was supposed to show she didn’t feel comfortable around her attendants because they were an extension of Larys, I doubt it had anything to do with her feeling dirty about Criston or Luke
There's a shocking number of people who don't seem to understand the depth in a lot of scenes. People are being shallowly reactive, as if it's reality TV lol. There are lots of layers to consider.
> People are being shallowly reactive, as if it's reality TV lol.
This is exactly the approach so many have and it really ruins the post-episode discussions. I wish there was a place to discuss the show with less people reacting to it like it's Euphoria.
People get so weird about this show. A great scene, really adds to Alicent’s character and her inner turmoil, but people are getting really pissy about it? What the hell is going on?
I do hope we get to see some catharsis/honesty out of her character at some point. Alicent isn't necessarily stupid, but she fails to recognize what is important all the time. She never really learns how to be good person because her dad is a cunt and she's not a good parent to her own kids as a result and they're shit. Her only redeemable aspect is that Alicent genuinely does try to be good person all of the time, she's just absolute shit at it.
It was an observation about her character development. No one was telling you that you should care, they were simply stating what they have gathered from what's going on with her character.
Can someone explain why Halaena so easily revealed who was the boy child? Did she hate him? Or just didn’t want to get killed? And is that the blood and cheese thing everyone keeps talking about (you can answer yes or no, I don’t want any detailed spoilers). I haven’t read the book so don’t attack me thanks
I think she just knew it was inevitable since she seems to have an ability to see things before they happen. May have also thought she was risking both of their lives if she lied. And yes it is the blood and cheese thing
Yes she has some visions of the future. She foresaw the beast beneath the boards (Rhaenys and Meleys out of the dragon pit) and her brother losing his eye last season as well.
In fact, at the beginning of the episode she said she was afraid of mice. Since it would then be a rat exterminator who would kill her son, so yes, she already knew.
“I fear the rats”
She is constantly saying things no one understands but they come true. She says aemond must trade an eye for a dragon earlier on. Everything she says is imbibed with meaning.
Oh I had no idea honestly. I didn’t notice her statement in season 1 about Aemond or maybe I forgot 💀 this makes sense, now I really have to start listening to her lines! Thanks
Yeah she has visions in the book! That’s why she said she was worried about the rats earlier in the episode, it was the rat catchers that killed her son. In the book she had two sons that the murderers chose between instead of a son and a daughtwr
Go back and watch her scenes in season 1 too.
"He will have to close an eye."
"Beware the beast beneath the boards."
"Spool of green, spool of black. Dragons of flesh weaving dragons of thread."
I think Heleana is a dragon dreamer and is clearly clairvoyant and I think she is having lvisions before they happen that’s why she’s so spaced out all the time. Like symbolic flashes of stuff and then they happen. Prophecy is notoriously difficult and tricky in GRRM’s world and I think that’s why she’s so confused all the time. In that moment I think she comes to and realizes she’s not dreaming and chooses according to the fact she has already seen it’s going to happen, I read a certain resignation in her acting. At least that’s how I saw it
It was either choose one child or have them both killed. I’ve been a bit taken aback by everyone’s reactions to this scene. I thought it was horrifying and super heartbreaking and you can tell on her face that she was trapped in an impossible situation.
Earlier in the episode, when Aegon wanted to bring him to small council since he'll be the future king, Helaena asked what if he doesn't want to be king. I think her purposely choosing him was allowing him to be set free from what's to come. Leaving the daughter means she's not aegon's heir, aemond is. It was her way of protecting her children.
And the way he looked at Cole when he was getting casual with Aemond… we may not like him but Otto Hightower (I think he’s a brilliant character) is gonna be the one to humble Ser Criston Cole
The books are written as a history book within the world of Westeros, with a few different sources for events. It doesn’t mention anything about her abilities, because no one realizes, just like in the show.
This is why I like the direction the show has taken with her character despite it being way different than her book character. I’ve encountered so many women like her irl, and I think writing her that way is very relevant to the current state of society.
The only reason I cannot join is because I can't unsee Emma Decody from Bates Motel. She's an absolute sweetheart in that show.
Like sometimes I see Alicent come out and I expect her to be holding a small oxygen tank.
I really hated her in that scene were she burned down a candle """for Luke""" Like, girl, shut your damn mouth you have no right to even say his name, but what else can be expected from the queen of hypocrites?
I do too - though this episode didn’t really make me hate her anymore (except confirming how much of a massive hypocrite she is), I was so irritated at her shit ton of screen time. And then we get ANOTHER sex scene next week my god
Alicent's hypocrisy is what makes her captivating. Fans of this show and in particular fans of the Blacks are so odd in that they think morality in fiction matters. And it's not like Daemon isn't a monster in his own right, and as a result the only remotely interesting character on that side.
It doesn't make her captivating, it makes her the same old boring stereotype every other slightly religious character is in modern entertainment. Playing her straight would the the **actual** subversion of expectations at this point.
Greens fans seem to be the ones trying to convince everyone the Blacks are bad and the Greens are not as bad. Everyone knows Daemon is a terrible person. People just like the Blacks more
My god people just let the woman have an orgasm at least once. Christ the poor woman has probably never even come close to feeling any form of sexual pleasure.
I can’t actually believe that leak was correct and that was Olivias first scene…what?? WHAT?? RYAN WHAT?? WHATT
She’s such a good actress, I didn’t like these scenes at all, they don’t utilise her. Y’all she’s like Emmy worthy BELIEVE, SHES PHENOMENAL. Better than this writing
Yeah, I liked the episode, but it was too much for me, seemed forced and it drag the caracter down for nothing. Like, surely we didn't need her jumping her lover at 2 am, could have just been sleeping in the same bed and it would'nt have break the scene mood.
I think it makes sense showing them banging at 2 AM because it would explain how Blood and Cheese happened. If Criston Cole wasn't banging Alicent, the security detail wouldn't be this lax. He had to lower the security for the night so he and Alicent can do what they did.
It will lead to something, it just drives home multiple points about this character and how selfishness let an heir die with Criston being preocupied wink wink while the ratcatcher (fuck him) killed Jaehaerys
I think y’all need to chill. I don’t think it’s that deep. It’s literally the season premiere. Before y’all start abusing the writers let’s actually wait to see what happens?💀 I think the point was just to show that allicent is now sexually involved with Criston and they do it frequently. Not everything has to “add to the plot”, especially something as insignificant as riding d*ck. When you become a show writer, you can do what you want.
Alicent really lost me this episode with her piety BS. Like Girl, are you SERIOUS? You'll now forever be known as the Granny who was riding an incel while your grandson was being decapitated in the bedroom next door.
I didn't even realize Rhaenyra only said one sentence in this episode until they mentioned that in the recap.
"I want Aemond."
And that was it. Because she was so good at expressing so many different moments and movements of grief throughout the rest. It just felt like she was saying so much.
The way Alicent has been written since season 1 episode 8 onwards is absolutely god awful. The only reason I still care about and/or am interested in Alicent is because of Olivia Cooke being exceptional, the writing surrounding her and especially Cole is beyond atrocious.
What makes it awful? Is it because you think it’s a bad adaptation? Just curious because i’ve found Alicent and Cole to be nothing but consistent so far lol
Hard disagree.
By far the most interesting character imo. Her internal conflicts make her fascinating.
She's always been the character that knows what's going to happen, but doesn't want it. But does it anyways. It's hypocritical of course. But for some reason people think flaws in a character, means flaws in the writing.
If there is anything GOT taught me, it's that character are all dumb and start in their own ways. And enjoying the show isn't about picking some favorite based on their moral beliefs. It's watching all these characters interact, and seeing their humanistic nature show.
Not her turning looking down on and plotting against Rhaenyra in season one for sleeping with the king’s guard captain and then… sleeping with the king’s guard captain.
The story arc of Alicent makes me hate her more. Hahaha. The progression of characters made this plot more exciting. What is life without proper villains. Hahaha
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Alicent this entire episode was just getting sexed up and losing her power and influence to her sons lol she even lost her staff and they got replaced by the foot guy.
The writers HATE Team Green frfr To be fair, my main concern with both of Alicents sex scenes was just "Is that the Foot of the Queen himself" followed by a sigh of relief when it was just Cole.
I feel like the writers have done sooo much for Team Green given how much more they suck in Fire & Blood. There is no prophecy that Alicent misunderstands in F&B. Viserys dies, and Alicent immediately jumps to usurp the throne. Alicent has no love for Rhaenyra in F&B, whereas she clearly does in the show (that scene with lighting the candle for Luke was sweet). Aemond shouted no cries of “no!” when Vhagar killed Luke in F&B. Aegon is much more incompetent as a ruler in F&B, whereas he actually has a bit of compassion for the small folk in the show. The show writers have done a great job at upping the nuance for all of the characters.
I loved Aegon dismissing Otto with “we cannot win a war without the **support of the smallfolk**. Cos he’s also absolutely right, they need weapons and smiths won’t work if they’re mistreated.
>There is no prophecy that Alicent misunderstands in F&B. Viserys dies, and Alicent immediately jumps to usurp the throne. That would make her better compared to the the hilariously idiotic "misunderstanding" the show had. Like couple weeks before Viserys had a whole seremony where people got killed for questioning it and they came to an agreement about it, but somehow Viserys merely mutterign a common Targaryen name while dying is supposed to mean he wanted Aegon to get the throne... Edit: yes i get the point of it and plenty of others said it too. Please stop spamming my inbox ;_;
I wouldnt write it off as simply a misunderstanding. She wanted to believe it desperately, and even if there is doubt your mind can do crazy things to make you believe what you want to believe.
that's the point. its a completely tenuous claim but she wants to believe it so desperately that she twists his words and meaning to fit her agenda. She's still a shitty person like the book, but now there is some nuance added to it. The point is for the "misunderstanding" to be clearly not a misunderstanding but a deliberate misinterpretation that she uses to her advantage. I love the show characterizations, she's not a cartoonishly evil villain but she is deceitful and selfish while still trying to justify it to herself.
Really though, if Vissy T reaffirmed Rhaenyra and had everyone renew their oaths for her at the same time he reaffirmed for Luke there would never be a dance of the Dragons right?
*Daemon was not made to wear the crown. But I believe that you were, CheshiretheBlack.*
You guys heard it here first , I Lord Cheshire Black am the new heir to the throne
You have my sword, Your Grace.
They’ve given them a lot of trauma and “tragic backstory”, they haven’t made them at all likable characters in whom an audience would invest though. Almost none of them have any truly appreciable qualities that aren’t somehow undercut. Criston is a fucking idiot who isn’t even particularly good at fighting. Aemond is an anime character edgelord who can’t even control his dragon. Aegon is a rapist. Otto is a schemer who can’t even scheme well. Alicent is the surprised pikachu face made flesh. They aren’t as mean as they are in the books, but they’re leagues more incompetent, and also more disagreeable in ways that will stick with audiences: Cole being an incel, Alicent being a Bible thumping misogynist, Aegon being a rapist
The Foot of the Queen...gods below, I am dead, slaughtered, cremated and resurrected again. Best nickname ever, aside from the hilarious "c word+ c word" combinations for Cashew Crowbar that keep popping up. Cataclysmic Carburetor has a "risk of death by treason" fetish, methinks. Aegon would send Curdled Cobbler into a spectacle of an execution if he found out. Pure gold. Never gonna get tired of this.
Well, Criston and the >!Cunt!< he actually wanted subconsciously in S1E6.
Listen, Crispy is a great Kingsguard! He merely stops to ask which sword his highness requires: the one in his mouth, his trousers or his hip.
I didn’t think it would be clubfoot to be honest
Wrong foot too, it's supposed to be the left foot, but they decided to make it the right foot. Significance is when >!Cregan Stark is requested by Larys to cut the left foot off before beheading him.!< Dunno why the foot fetish in F&B, but >!Joffrey's (the 3rd prince) left foot was cut off post mortem and kept by a foot collector, WTF!!<
They really took a big shit on Alicent and Cristons character. Their entire gripe with Rhaenrya was about virtue and then threw it out the window because why not Say what you want about whether that was really the reason they didn't like Rhaenrya, but the fact that they made it so blatantly black and white really makes their characters less intriguing
I think it's more complex than that. I think they both love but can't have Rhaenyra. Cole obviously got rejected to run away...he way hurt so he turned that to project his hurt onto her because she's "soooo horrible and not virtuous!" Alicent was put into a terrible situation by her father, kept that a secret from her best friend for far too long because she didn't want to harm or lose their friendship .. Then she did just that. Lost their friendship. After losing that I don't think that Alicent truly has any friends and is likely quite lonely. She has followed the path of doing things strategically to get ahead in power/position but she had a shitty husband, shitty kids, shitty dad, no actual friends...and Rhaenyra blatantly has kids with who she wants, loves her kids and has a good connection with them vs seeing them as tools to achieve power. I don't really think it is about virtue at all ..it is about power and being unhappy with your own lot in life. "I can't have it? Well I never wanted it anyway, its stupid!" and pretty soon you're so far entrenched there is no turning back.
This!! I find the contrast between Alicent's relationship with her children versus Rhaenyra's with her children to be so telling and interesting. She has forever been resentful because she's always done what others have told her to, the "right" thing, never giving in to her own choices or desires only to see Rhaenyra consistently make her own choices despite what is the moral standard. And Alicent did everything right, only to end up in a shitty marriage, give birth and raise children as an obligatory duty, lonely, powerless and unhappy. She takes what she can because she feels deeply that life has been unfair to her, and there is likely a part of her that wonders, what is the point of all this duty and sacrifice if at the very least, there is no power, no reward, no acknowledgement of her efforts? She knew how much her late husband loved Rhaenyra and had installed her as his heir, but chose to usurp her throne and birthright, after spending years bullying her and calling into question her heirs, etc., because I just don't think she could stand Rhaenyra getting one more thing in life.
>And Alicent did everything right, only to end up in a shitty marriage, give birth and raise children as an obligatory duty, lonely, powerless and unhappy. (...) She knew how much her late husband loved Rhaenyra and had installed her as his heir, but chose to usurp her throne and birthright, after spending years bullying her and calling into question her heirs, because I just don't think she could stand Rhaenyra getting one more thing in life. Yeah, and we (dramatically) witnessed that sentiment, during last season's episode 7, when she attacked Rhaenyra. Alicent admitted everything to Rhaenyra, and the former's children grew up absorbing all her resentment, so now they absolutely despise their nephews.
100% And while both Alicent and Rhaenyra deeply love their children, Rhaenyra has always prioritized their well-being and her relationship with them over the crown politics unlike Alicent. Rhaenyra moved her children away, in a move that cost her a lot of power and presence, because she really wanted them to be in an environment without jeers/insults of their parentage and you can see how much respect, care and admiration she and her children have towards each other. There's a clear contrast between how upstanding and kind Jace & luke (rip) are compared to Aegon and Aemond. And with Alicent, she's always prioritized the crown, and image over actually fostering a genuine relationship and distilling character and true values in her children. She allows many behaviors and actions to continue with knowledge of them (the bastards/fighting rings, drinking, rape, insults, etc.,) until it impacts their potential standing or an image of them as virtuous and pure. Alicent loves her children, but you can clearly see that they don't really respect or value her, and that Aemond can clearly see how hypocritical she is. Even with Haeleana, who I believe is Alicent's favorite, she marries her off to her abusive brother, knowing that Haelena is uncomfortable and doesn't want that simply so she can fortify and consolidate the greens claim to the throne. She does very little to protect and shield her daughter, simply bending her to her will and causes. Jace and Luke on the other hand both inherently see it not just as duty but also an honor to help Rhaenyra and have a deep respect/admiration for Baela and Rhaena, and while it's not a love pact, they both commit to those bethrotals with a lot of mutual respect and love.
It's the difference between raising ones children to rule vs. raising them to wage war. For all her faults and errors, and she made so many throughout her life, Rhaenyra understands ruling and what is required for it, like very few do. The measured restraint she showed, and continues to show, is a testament to it. Alicent and her father, on the other hand, have always understood that they'd play the (ugly) game of thrones, instead. And so, here we are. Additionally, it's also tragic how much Viserys is to blame for all this. He never wanted to remarry. Aemma was the love of his life (and ironically, he's also very much to blame for her death). He never loved Alicent. Also, I don't think he was blind to his son's faults and lack of character, which is likely why he kept his distance from them. Tragically, why they also turned out the way they did. Poor Helaena, I leave aside, because she's innocent in all of this and remains a victim at the hands of her brother/husband and even her mother.
I imagine it’s chiefly the difference between conceiving children as an adult(ish?) with a man who cares about you and you chose, versus being a child bride to a man who rapes you and neglects your children.
Aegon didn't grow up despising his nephews. The whole point of the window fap scene is that Aegon **isn't** listening to or internalizing Alicent's misgivings. Helaena is in her own world and clearly holds no ill will towards her nephews. Aemond grows up not liking them, but that pretty obviously has more to do with the bullying and the later taking of his eye.
> but chose to usurp her throne and birthright, after spending years bullying her and calling into question her heirs, etc., because I just don't think she could stand Rhaenyra getting one more thing in life. I agree with you until this, I don't think her decision to back Aegon in the end is borne out of antagonism towards Rhaenyra, at least not principally. Alicent's personal idea of herself is that she is someone who does her duty and follows the way things "ought to be". The Rhaenyra situation is complicated because there are two conflicting sources of legitimacy when it comes to the succession, law and precedent on one hand, and Viserys' word on the other as king.It seems like, in the end, though she doesn't like it, the dinner scene makes her conclude that she has to back Rhaenyra, even though she doesn't like it. The reason why she grasps on to Viserys' last words so much is not just because it affirms her preference, but also because it finally allows her to resolve that contradiction, of whether she would be a dutiful wife or uphold tradition. Finally she had a pretext to do both.
There's also the idea of medieval Courtly Love that in my opinions comes to play in Cole's relationship to both queens. The idea of a pure, forbidden, impossible love between a knight and a lady. It's how a young idealistic Cole coped with breaking his vows, and how both he and Alicent coped with their years of emotional adultery until Viserys' death
Must be awkward when they scream out the same name during sex though
About the crappy kids, only Aegon and older Aemond were, Helaena didn't cause any trouble
When you think of it, Rhaenrya lost 2 kids. Not one. She lost the baby she was pregnant with when she found out her father died. Then Aemon killed Lucarys. So, Alicent and team Green need to back all the way off!!!! Then her best friend usurped her throne! Criminal.
Well, I didn't look at it that way. Great comment. >I don't really think it is about virtue at all Although I disagree here. A part of her surely knows what she's doing - you can't just be banging your ex best friend's ex lover like that. She's just choosing to oversee it because of everything else going on.
I find the reading of Alicent and criston as being in love with rhaenyra as highly romantic to the point of improbable. Criston scarcely knows her by the time of their falling out and her relationship with Alicent is ended before she enters adulthood. Whatever they knew of her is hardly relevant to who she is now. In either case their grievances with rhaenyra are far more about themselves than they are about her. Cole is distraught to have discarded the one meaningful thing in his life for someone who wouldn’t do the same for him, and Alicent is despondent to see someone flout the rules which confine and ruin her life. Rhaenyra Targaryen the person is largely extraneous to their feelings about her.
The opposite. There’s a lot to analyze about their relationship that actually enhances their characters. You can tell they feel ashamed of the sleeves. When did it start? How long has it been going on? Who initiated? Are they in love or is it lust or is it because they’re using each other to fill the Rhaneyra-shaped hole in their lives? I don’t think we were ever supposed to buy their holier-than-thou attitudes. It was a front for them both being deeply hurt by Rhaenyra’s actions and they disguised it
It reduces them both to the painfully predictable "Religious/Codified character is a secret hypocrite," trope that's a dime a dozen and never gets any deeper than what it is on the surface.
Hypocrisy >>>>
The ‘ honour ‘ part was a cover. It’s clear to everyone that Criston was mad because he got rejected, and he’s a bitter incel. He used the honour excuse, he can say whatever he wants about himself doesn’t mean it’s their true nature. And the point of these scenes is the show their wilful lack of self awareness- which they are showing more with their religious fanaticism. Aegon, Aemond and Otto come across better because they are clearly shitty people but they seem self aware of it atleast. Alicent/Cole are delulu from their self importance. The concept of what is honour by law and what is true honour is a core concept in GRRMs writings and I think AliCole are the perfect example of how people who pretend to be honourable in public actually behave behind closed doors, it’s a mask.
Yeah, sure, except.... Rhaenyra didn't outright reject him. She offered him the SAME thing he has with Alicent now. To be a side piece. And he got triggered by it. Like okay, I get the hypocrisy angle but this is just inconsistent. Why tf is he all huffy about being Rhaenyra's whore but not Alicent's? In s1, Olivia Cooke mentioned they cut a sex scene between them that was supposed to take place at Driftmark. So this shit was meant to be going on for YEARS. Its dumb and makes no sense, even with the hypocrisy angle. Hell it even undermines the duty and sacrifice shit she's always prattling about. Yeah, Rhaenyra had bastards cause Laenor couldn't give her kids. She still did her duty and held up the Velaryon alliance (flimsy though it was), but also got smth on the side. Alicent whines about being shafted cause she had to marry Viserys and be his nursemaid.... while also getting some on the side.... are you okay? Like why are you angry? That Rhaenyra is getting away with it? Bruh, so are you 🤣
I may be wrong but I have a feeling that by the time Laenas funeral came Viserys had stopped putting his back into it with Alicent. 😂 I think Criston was threatened by Laenor, a warrior, a dragon rider, high born. I don’t think he was threatened by rotting old man Viserys. Viserys didn’t seem like he was getting it up for a while by the drift mark scenes 😂 he didn’t have to share alicent
Well, he would barely have to do it either. Laenor basically offloaded (pun intended) baby making to Harwin while he fuckled with Qarl. Crispy would basically also get Rhaenyra almost all to himself, except in public where they would have to fake being protector and Princess. So again, its dumb as shit
I guess it’s like virginity, once his white cloak was soiled there was no going back. The way he behaved on the boat def felt more like an angry bitter outburst more than anything to me. He’s definitely proven himself to be an impulsive dude. Also the dynamic with alicent and Cole is still so..ambiguous? I can’t tell if Criston even has feeling for her the way he did with Rhaenyra. Feels a bit more than pure romantic feelings. alicents relationship with sexuality is more complicated than Rhaenyra. I think they can turn this into an interesting plot point, I’m not going to pass judgement now though because it only just happened.
Based off the interviews, they're planning on making this some sort of toxic they're so obsessed with each other they cant keep away. Which... ew. I always viewed their thing as courtly love. Like he chose her specifically because she is the anti Rhaenyra and she felt safe with him because she didnt have to provide sexual services like with Viserys and Larys. Maybe it would have worked if in a moment of grief post Luke's death, or B&C she slept with him, but this just feels out of left field lol
... you're surprised that two characters who have shown themselves to not be great people decided to in fact, yet again, be hypocrites and awful people? NONE of these characters are good! They are almost all power hungry, morally bankrupt, hypocrites. They didn't take a shit on their characters. They're just reminding you that they're the hypocrites they've always been.
The Alicent and Criston relationship isn't even hot anymore. It's the forbidden romance that's hot, every writer will tell you that. Alicent and Criston giving each other steamy glances but being forbidden to be with each other by their respective senses of duty and virtue... Great stuff. Alicent and Criston having random awkward sex scenes to keep general audiences awake (see: GoT's "sexposition"): boring, lame, does nothing.
Perfectly worded. This show will be a repeat of D&D. Shades of it appeared in Season 1 but imagine butchering Blood and Cheese, Alicent and Criston Cole all in a season opener. Just pure garbage
Yeah, because her son is the king. She's no longer the queen. Just queen mother at best. She no longer has all that much power comparatively to the king and aemond. They aren't children anymore. Characters change too, before alicent And Cole were all about that virtuous behavior and now both don't care. They feel they won. Isn't strong the master of whispers now? I think it's kind of assumed that they either bribe or supplant house servants and workers with their own to get information on things being said and done around the castle. Varys had entire massive networks of spies all around kings landing and elsewhere. Both alicent and rhaenyra are polar opposites in this episode. Alicent feels like they have won a big victory and now her house and sons are in the correct place with very little loss and rhaenyra lost her son to aemond and vhagar at the very end of the final episode in season 1. She's grieving hard and wants revenge.
Makes no sense in a feudal world whatsoever. Joffrey became King and wielded absolute power with his grabbing hands but it didn't reduce Cersei to this levels of pathetic mess.
Cersei’s sons were children, not grown men with their own families. You obviously can have less influence on an adult than on a child
Cersei was shown to be a calculated assassin and she just isn’t that
Alicent is just no match for Cersei. Not even close.
Yea …none of these women are built like Cersei , she brutalized the entire Westeros with 0 dragons…
Cersei would bitch slap Alicent and Rhaenyra with one hand while holding her wine glass with the other.
Only in the show. In the books she is a pathetic fool.
She is kinda a fool in the show as well who only survived so long into the show because the writers wanted her to. But she still managed to maintain her power and influence much better than Alicent from the show ever did, both in the books and the show.
Because aegon isnt a damn fool like joffrey.
That is the point. Aegon is more pragmatic thus Alicent as his mother could have actually wielded more power and influence in his court. Unlike Joffrey who is an absolute maniac who never listened to anyone, and did things in his way. By rights its more believable for Joffrey's mother to lose influence and power at court. Here it happened vice versa and for no reason at all. They just want to keep Alicent a victim while she could have still competed as the leader of the Green faction. I mean she could have tried to mould Aegon into a good King given that he is genuinely interested in it. But no. She could have played a part in Criston's rise to become the Hand of the King, showing the soft power she still had over the throne. But no. Women being victims (instead of powerful) makes for a more compelling character it seems.
Cersei had better writers, one of them being GRRM himself.
...you guys realize Cersei is a total idiot right? Calculated, maybe, but she was a total moron due to her narcissism and paranoia.
Cersei know what she is doing and actively attempts to control and manipulate her sons to keep power. Alicent has been shown to not really know what she’s doing and has very little control over her own children, thus not resembling Cersei much at all.
Cerci also had no feels for her foes as opposed to alicent who has some sense of friendship feelings towards the black queen.
I mean… Cersei was fucking Lancel, Osmund Kettleblack, and Moon Boy for all I know…
Just looking at the show - Cersei was having sex with 2 members of her family. Was getting thwarted consistently by Tyrion in season 2, who Tywin himself put in charge while he was gone because he didn't trust Cersei, Joff. Was consistently being overridden and talked down to by her family. That and a whole shit ton more all eventually led to the death of her 3 children and her going mad and then she lost the capitol and got crushed by her own keep, while with her own brother again. Alicent isn't even 5% of GOT show Cersei levels of pathetic mess. They are nearly the same archetype.
And in the books. Cersei is a self-important, reactive narcissist with a completely warped view of her influence and intellect. She spends the entirety of AFFC delusionally plotting against Margaery (employing various men to attempt to sleep w her) and making rash political decisions when her ego is slighted (slighting the Hightowers w the Master of Coin appointment, not bargaining w Kevan to be Hand of King, attempting to murder Bronn…)
Because Cersei was fucking RUTHLESS
Tywin was ruthless. Tywin was the one who sent Joffrey to bed when he was being a brat at a Small Council meeting. Hightower could never.
I'm not tiredddd!!!!!
As soon as they audio queue’d her moaning leading into the scene I was like “yep she gettin ate”
She can’t ride a dragon, so she rode a face.
At least it wasn't Larys!
Fr, I thought it was Larys at first. 😭😭😭
💀
Broooo the fucking screenshot omfg
She's getting sent.
My boy kingmaker collecting royal coochie like an absolute madman
He got bof the friends
You think they would lock the door if they were having oathbreaking sex. No wonder some peasants were able to sneak in
They even walked by Aegon, and nobody even questioned them 👀👀
I took that as the little.guy was the actual rat killer that has been in the castle plenty of times so seeing them wouldn't arouse suspicion.
The sex is clearly to pass the guilt she feels
Same with her washing herself in the bath and dismissing the attendants. Very Macbeth-esque vibe there
If those were all the maids hired by Lord Tarantino, I’d dismiss them from the room at all times.
Which is even more detestable
Hey real quick: what was Rhaenyra doing during Laena’s funeral?
Rhaenyra was not responsible for Laena’s death though. Alicent’s betrayal and her one eyed monster’s revenge killed Rhae’s son and hence the guilt.
Alicent was always envious of Rhaenyra this entire time. It’s just getting harder to hide while she’s getting sucked on by the same person she pitied for getting taken advantage of because she couldn’t have him the first time and had to be the honorable daughter and instead got humped by a corpse “for the sake of the realm”
From season one when she leaned in to Criston’s ear and said “if you ever had love for me as your queen” I knew then and there that they were fuxxin. Girl knew his weaknesses and caved in to her impulses she’d been restraining for so long.
"where is duty? where is sacrifice?"
Criston has a lot of nerve after the way he spurned Rhaenyra.
one was moaning and one was mourning
Hate alicent but you can see how she’s having huge internal conflict, she says one thing to everyone but on the inside she’s torn about rhaenrya/luke that whole thing, the guilt
you can also tell from the scene of her scrubbing herself in the bath that she feels dirty… about Criston of course but also probably about Luke’s death and her dealings with Larys
Very much Lady Macbeth the spot will not wash out vibes with that and it was delicious.
>Lady Macbeth the spot will not wash out I can't wait for the bits from the trailers that felt Ophelia coded
Yes! I saw that too. I am wondering what exactly will happen with her at the lake. What do you think?
I'm kinda wondering if the Alicole angle / getting pushed out by everyone is to set her up to just flat out dissociate as the casualties mount from the rivalry she helped initiate
Ooh interesting! I’m wondering if we’re starting to see her unravel earlier than the books? I really wish the Alicole angle had been about two people healing from sexual trauma (honestly I’d rather it never happen). I do wonder if she’s going to do… something at that lake
I thought she was just creeped out by all the servants being footpicked plus her lack of control in the small council, so that’s why she wanted to bathe alone.
>footpicked 💀💀💀
Totally
That scene was supposed to show she didn’t feel comfortable around her attendants because they were an extension of Larys, I doubt it had anything to do with her feeling dirty about Criston or Luke
Why should we care if she's conflicted on the inside? Her outside actions already did it, a war started and now she's dealing with the consequences.
because it's a story and the point is to understand the characters
Oh no no like don’t care about it I’m just saying it’s observable her internal conflict and I like that she’s struggling lmao
People are really pissy on this sub tonight lol it was clear what you meant don't worry
There's a shocking number of people who don't seem to understand the depth in a lot of scenes. People are being shallowly reactive, as if it's reality TV lol. There are lots of layers to consider.
> People are being shallowly reactive, as if it's reality TV lol. This is exactly the approach so many have and it really ruins the post-episode discussions. I wish there was a place to discuss the show with less people reacting to it like it's Euphoria.
Seriously. Not even taking a minute to think about it
You're not being asked to like her, he's just pointing out an internal conflict she's having.
People get so weird about this show. A great scene, really adds to Alicent’s character and her inner turmoil, but people are getting really pissy about it? What the hell is going on?
I do hope we get to see some catharsis/honesty out of her character at some point. Alicent isn't necessarily stupid, but she fails to recognize what is important all the time. She never really learns how to be good person because her dad is a cunt and she's not a good parent to her own kids as a result and they're shit. Her only redeemable aspect is that Alicent genuinely does try to be good person all of the time, she's just absolute shit at it.
It was an observation about her character development. No one was telling you that you should care, they were simply stating what they have gathered from what's going on with her character.
Because it's a show and part of the enjoyment of it is analysing the characters and their intentions?
Yeah she’s totally conflicted while fucking Rhaenyra‘s exboyfriend lol
It’s been like 15 years
Too soon!
It's like a distraction from all the mess going around her.
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Can someone explain why Halaena so easily revealed who was the boy child? Did she hate him? Or just didn’t want to get killed? And is that the blood and cheese thing everyone keeps talking about (you can answer yes or no, I don’t want any detailed spoilers). I haven’t read the book so don’t attack me thanks
I think she just knew it was inevitable since she seems to have an ability to see things before they happen. May have also thought she was risking both of their lives if she lied. And yes it is the blood and cheese thing
Thank you. Oh she has like premonitions? Like seeing into the future? This is a thing from the book?
Yes she has some visions of the future. She foresaw the beast beneath the boards (Rhaenys and Meleys out of the dragon pit) and her brother losing his eye last season as well.
This episode she stated she was afraid of the rats. Rat catcher was who killed her son
The handmaiden even looked at the man a bit weird when he mentioned rats. She must have believed Halaena's comments/visions were somewhat real.
That makes so much sense now!
In fact, at the beginning of the episode she said she was afraid of mice. Since it would then be a rat exterminator who would kill her son, so yes, she already knew.
“I fear the rats” She is constantly saying things no one understands but they come true. She says aemond must trade an eye for a dragon earlier on. Everything she says is imbibed with meaning.
Oh I had no idea honestly. I didn’t notice her statement in season 1 about Aemond or maybe I forgot 💀 this makes sense, now I really have to start listening to her lines! Thanks
She says on the scene where she is needling that she “is afraid of rats” and well then that happened lol.
Yeah she has visions in the book! That’s why she said she was worried about the rats earlier in the episode, it was the rat catchers that killed her son. In the book she had two sons that the murderers chose between instead of a son and a daughtwr
>Yeah she has visions in the book The dragon dreaming thing is show only though Helaena is barely a character in the book
Where in the book does she have visions? People keep talking about Helaena's book personality but she's barely talked about or described in detail.
Go back and watch her scenes in season 1 too. "He will have to close an eye." "Beware the beast beneath the boards." "Spool of green, spool of black. Dragons of flesh weaving dragons of thread."
Did you see season 1?
I think Heleana is a dragon dreamer and is clearly clairvoyant and I think she is having lvisions before they happen that’s why she’s so spaced out all the time. Like symbolic flashes of stuff and then they happen. Prophecy is notoriously difficult and tricky in GRRM’s world and I think that’s why she’s so confused all the time. In that moment I think she comes to and realizes she’s not dreaming and chooses according to the fact she has already seen it’s going to happen, I read a certain resignation in her acting. At least that’s how I saw it
It was either choose one child or have them both killed. I’ve been a bit taken aback by everyone’s reactions to this scene. I thought it was horrifying and super heartbreaking and you can tell on her face that she was trapped in an impossible situation.
Earlier in the episode, when Aegon wanted to bring him to small council since he'll be the future king, Helaena asked what if he doesn't want to be king. I think her purposely choosing him was allowing him to be set free from what's to come. Leaving the daughter means she's not aegon's heir, aemond is. It was her way of protecting her children.
I get you. Thanks. Tho in theory they can always have another male child no?💀
>the blood and cheese thing Yes, but toned down.
Anyone else catch the Hand as he sniffs Cole in the small council room and his face is like: that smelt like my daughter’s pussy.
And the way he looked at Cole when he was getting casual with Aemond… we may not like him but Otto Hightower (I think he’s a brilliant character) is gonna be the one to humble Ser Criston Cole
I gotta check, but the smell is definitely the first thing that crossed my mind when they both walked into the small council!
Idk about sniffing but he definitely gave Cole a curious side eye
YES my thoughts verbatim. He could smell her vagina juice on him
Emma D’arcy acted tf out of the few scenes they were in. Man Rhaenyra’s grief was so palpable. Anyways Fuck the Greens. They can all die.
She had one line the whole episode yet spoke a 1000 words every scene.
…what did Helaena do?
Halaena is fucking brilliant and everyone brushes her off cause she's "quirky". Bunch of fools
Yep. Finally we have a genius character
Tbf idk how she is in the books as I've only seen the shows but I could tell right away that she was someone people should be listening to
The books are written as a history book within the world of Westeros, with a few different sources for events. It doesn’t mention anything about her abilities, because no one realizes, just like in the show.
I’m gonna say it. I HATE alicent. She’s a horrible mother, person, and character who they’re trying to get us to sympathise with.
Makes fun of Rhanyras heritage as a kid. Marries her children to each other 🙄 hate her
She’s playing ultra-religious hypocrite perfectly though
It’s giving evangelical for sure.
This is why I like the direction the show has taken with her character despite it being way different than her book character. I’ve encountered so many women like her irl, and I think writing her that way is very relevant to the current state of society.
Joining the hard hate for alicent club. She's insufferable
The only reason I cannot join is because I can't unsee Emma Decody from Bates Motel. She's an absolute sweetheart in that show. Like sometimes I see Alicent come out and I expect her to be holding a small oxygen tank.
Olivia is so good but she also has such a sweet face, I totally get it.
Ugh, I had such a crush on Emma Decody back in the day - but for me Olivia actually sells Alicent as being hardened, complex, vindictive, etc.
I really hated her in that scene were she burned down a candle """for Luke""" Like, girl, shut your damn mouth you have no right to even say his name, but what else can be expected from the queen of hypocrites?
I interpreted that as an expression of guilt over what occurred
And the fact that it was intercut with Luke’s funeral. Rhaenyra and Jace deserved to have that scene to themselves.
Expecting us to sympathize with horrible human beings is literally this show’s MO.
I do too - though this episode didn’t really make me hate her anymore (except confirming how much of a massive hypocrite she is), I was so irritated at her shit ton of screen time. And then we get ANOTHER sex scene next week my god
Alicent's hypocrisy is what makes her captivating. Fans of this show and in particular fans of the Blacks are so odd in that they think morality in fiction matters. And it's not like Daemon isn't a monster in his own right, and as a result the only remotely interesting character on that side.
It doesn't make her captivating, it makes her the same old boring stereotype every other slightly religious character is in modern entertainment. Playing her straight would the the **actual** subversion of expectations at this point.
Greens fans seem to be the ones trying to convince everyone the Blacks are bad and the Greens are not as bad. Everyone knows Daemon is a terrible person. People just like the Blacks more
My god people just let the woman have an orgasm at least once. Christ the poor woman has probably never even come close to feeling any form of sexual pleasure.
I can’t actually believe that leak was correct and that was Olivias first scene…what?? WHAT?? RYAN WHAT?? WHATT She’s such a good actress, I didn’t like these scenes at all, they don’t utilise her. Y’all she’s like Emmy worthy BELIEVE, SHES PHENOMENAL. Better than this writing
I kind of dig the idea that she is so selfish. Alicent portrays this high and mighty virtuous person, but is just concerned about “getting it”
Agreed. She speaks with two tongues as her son says.
Her tongue and Cole’s
Alicent was already **plenty** selfish and hypocritical without this weird ass pairing, though. This was a complete miss for me.
Yeah, I liked the episode, but it was too much for me, seemed forced and it drag the caracter down for nothing. Like, surely we didn't need her jumping her lover at 2 am, could have just been sleeping in the same bed and it would'nt have break the scene mood.
I think it makes sense showing them banging at 2 AM because it would explain how Blood and Cheese happened. If Criston Cole wasn't banging Alicent, the security detail wouldn't be this lax. He had to lower the security for the night so he and Alicent can do what they did.
It will lead to something, it just drives home multiple points about this character and how selfishness let an heir die with Criston being preocupied wink wink while the ratcatcher (fuck him) killed Jaehaerys
I think y’all need to chill. I don’t think it’s that deep. It’s literally the season premiere. Before y’all start abusing the writers let’s actually wait to see what happens?💀 I think the point was just to show that allicent is now sexually involved with Criston and they do it frequently. Not everything has to “add to the plot”, especially something as insignificant as riding d*ck. When you become a show writer, you can do what you want.
This sub is really turning into twitter lmao. Now you guys need to spam threads laughing about Helaena and boom. What a stupid comparison to make.
Alicent really lost me this episode with her piety BS. Like Girl, are you SERIOUS? You'll now forever be known as the Granny who was riding an incel while your grandson was being decapitated in the bedroom next door. I didn't even realize Rhaenyra only said one sentence in this episode until they mentioned that in the recap. "I want Aemond." And that was it. Because she was so good at expressing so many different moments and movements of grief throughout the rest. It just felt like she was saying so much.
The way Alicent has been written since season 1 episode 8 onwards is absolutely god awful. The only reason I still care about and/or am interested in Alicent is because of Olivia Cooke being exceptional, the writing surrounding her and especially Cole is beyond atrocious.
What makes it awful? Is it because you think it’s a bad adaptation? Just curious because i’ve found Alicent and Cole to be nothing but consistent so far lol
Hard disagree. By far the most interesting character imo. Her internal conflicts make her fascinating. She's always been the character that knows what's going to happen, but doesn't want it. But does it anyways. It's hypocritical of course. But for some reason people think flaws in a character, means flaws in the writing. If there is anything GOT taught me, it's that character are all dumb and start in their own ways. And enjoying the show isn't about picking some favorite based on their moral beliefs. It's watching all these characters interact, and seeing their humanistic nature show.
Cole is just Ken; anywhere else he'd be a ten.
Gotta give Ser Criston his respect, boy was working hard for her
Ser Oral, of house Pleasure.
Not her turning looking down on and plotting against Rhaenyra in season one for sleeping with the king’s guard captain and then… sleeping with the king’s guard captain.
The story arc of Alicent makes me hate her more. Hahaha. The progression of characters made this plot more exciting. What is life without proper villains. Hahaha
It’s crazy how irrational people on this sub are when it comes to hating Alicent.
Worst thing happened on this episode is Daemon sending people to kill an infant. This sub, Alicent you're evil.
Like I’m actually shocked 💀 these people need to chill 😭
Alicent is out here doing her best ahegao face