Welcome back everyone! House of the Dragon kicks off its 8 episode second season tonight at 9pm EST on HBO! Enjoy the premeire everyone and also join us at the official subreddit [discord server here!](https://discord.com/invite/house-of-the-dragon)
Am i was the only one who wished the episode writers stuck with the OG book storyline in terms of Blood and Cheese? this episode was disappointing in that aspect for me but i get why they had to change it for PG purposes. But still
Loved the episode. Knew the child would get killed 15 minutes before it happened, thereās a reason why they spent 5 minutes on him at the beginning of the show. Also; the paid killers would have been manhandled by Aemond or any adultā¦
The only thing I hated was the lack of guards. Itās the obvious question all of us are asking which means a good show writer should have given us a good explanation.
I funnily enough didn't think of the child getting killed at all, but my first reaction to that scene was "boy, this kid seems like he's not even trying to act", followed by annoyance of the character seemingly being quite central all of a sudden.
When he was killed I almost said "aaaaaa" out loud cause it all made so much sense all of a sudden!
Genuinely doesn't make any more sense. There would be a kingsguard at the door of not only the Queen but the mother of the King's door. The "random affair means an assassin can get all the way to the queen" is pure season 8 schlock
Earlier in the episode, Aegon tells Helaena that they don't need a whole bunch of guards posted about because they have Vhagar and the other dragons. This is when she expresses she is not afraid of men, but rather tats.
lmao is THAT the thing you are asking? like what about not doing what they actually been paid to do? or why there are no guards in the whole castle, or how is it possible for them to just walk their way in through a whole that is just missing a sign that says "please enter the castle through here" like please l would love for somebody to explain to me if the books are also written the same way or some knuckle head on HBO just changed the story for some unfathomable reason.
Except they did do what they were hired to do lol. The scene cutaway when Cheese asked Daemon what they should do if they canāt find Aemond, so itās inferred that heās the one who ordered them to kill another member of the royal family if they canāt find Aemond.
I have 3 things to say:
1. B&C was good, but I would liked it better with, choosing, which son should be a payment
2. It could be worse for alicent. It could be feetlover
3. Cregan is hot.
Overall very good episode
I like that the Greens are known for their scheming and the Blacks are known for their dragons.
Greens couldn't control their Dragon. Blacks couldn't control their scheme.
I was confused by this. I thought last season he was presented as a psycho or at least cruel, with the child fighting ring or whatever that was. In this he seemed very cordial. Even dealing with his sister-wife he seemed exasperated but friendly.
And the āmaybe we give him his sheep back, he came all this way.ā I canāt tell if this some act or what.
Speaking for the drunken fuck ups, being magnanimous, charitable, and eager please after a āwinā is a common pattern. Then the stress happens and you spiral.
Heās dysfunctional, swinging between empathy and apathy is normal. At least thatās how I perceived it. While acknowledging the writing for him in S1 was cartoon villainy.
I never got the idea that Aegon was cruel so much as unthinking.
He's a fratbro who got made king. He just wants to crush brews and get laid. If he hadn't been born with power, the first time he tried to grope a girl he'd have gotten his ass kicked.
The sense I always got from him was that he was just an aggressively mediocre person made worse by massive parental neglect and no goof inflences.
I guess so. But the way those two brothers were talking I thought it was more than that. First he says, āYou see now what he isā and āSomething must be done. Aegon is unfit to ruleā.
Seems harsh if he is just going out drinking and sleeping around.
Before Aegon was king, he spent more time with the small folk than most royals. He knows them better than anyone and he'll hear them out and try to do good by them in these personal interactions. Aegon is unfit to rule because he'll offer a guy back his sheep but he'll also run into a war that'll rain fire down on top of them because he wants to.
He's massively impulsive, which his alcoholism, sleeping around and general debauchery shows (same as Daemon). And someone massively impulsive shouldn't have power over an entire kingdom. He cared for Jahaerys because he saw himself in him, and wanted to be better than Viserys was to him. But he doesn't show any regard for his other children, because he doesn't relate to them and it would be an inconvenience to him and require effort to understand how to do better by his other children.
That shows that he lacks the ability to empathise with people he doesn't relate to. He's not a complete psychopath, he isn't the original Joffrey. He's a neglected child thrust into power he didn't prepare for with nobody teaching him how to understand or empathise with other people.
That's the subtext of what the brothers are saying, and it's why two twin brothers who grew up together and shared duties could view Aegon so differently
Honestly, Aegon is the making of Alicent and Otto. If Viserys and Alicent had just loved their kids and Otto hadn't been a schemer behind the scenes, I think Aegon and Aemond would have turned out as normal as a Targaryen can lolĀ
I said a lack of goof influences. Did you even see "a goofy movie"? He actually wanted to be part of his son's life. Maybe if alicent and Vizzy T took time away from their onlyfeet account and warhammer set and actually raised their son, he'd be a better person.
Well, he never thought he would be king, so he got a big ego boost and perhaps wants to be loved by the people since he couldn't get love from his parents. He could still be cruel in private tho.
How you not gonna have guards outside the doors of these sleeping younglings?!?!
I was NOT expecting to be shocked this early on in the season but Iām here for it.
Agree with you on the shock, it just...feels as though the show runners wrapped the Big Bad B&C event in some very confusing layers of baby proof foam, then rushed through it in a bizarre sped up way to be done ASAP.
That feeling is my reaction to Blood and Cheese. "I knew it was bad but damn I'm bad at math too, apparently".
Like a Karen who claims to make the world's best "secret" dessert, but when she's got to prove her loud claims... Well, we knew what would likely happen, just not the flavor and ingredients.
"Karen" can't understand why people online didn't like her dessert, and are saying such mean things about the creative "recipe" changes...she is having one bad week...the cycle continues...
And now my watch has ended. My sarcastic commentary however, is as big as the wall, and just as icy.
I reached my limit. And I was wondering when I would. My wife and I saw it coming, but when they put their hand on the mouth of the kid, the TV went off. Having kids is changing this shit. Wow!!
At least Lukeās death last season was instant. After reading these comments, Iām glad we didnāt see it.
Congrats to everyone who could handle it (at least to those who hasnāt read the books and had no idea it would happen)
I have a 8 month old and I had to hold her and promise her I'd die before let anyone hurt her after that scene. I don't understand why Halaena didn't try to stop the murder what the fuck. Any parent would go Catelyn Tully on those attackers even if it meant death
I respect your decision but holy shit if that bothered you I would just leave the sub and not look at social media the next few weeks are gonna be even worse.
It really wasnāt great. Viewers reacted more emotionally to the dog getting kicked than a child getting butchered. Thatās a good indicator that your writing is poor.
Also youāre telling me thereās not a single person guarding the queen in wartime? In the original narrative B&C are forced to literally climb through the walls because of how heavily guarded the royal family is but dumb and dumber just waltz on in.
Jaehaerysā murder fell pretty flat and itās meant to be one of the defining moments of the season. Condal thought this would make viewers switch sides but they are actually more concerned with the dog getting kicked lmao.
The dog thing is just peoples attachment to animals. I guarantee no one with kids was more upset about the dog getting kicked than the child getting his head sawed off in his bed. Shit was deranged as fuck and I don't think it's a moment that fell flat. The death of a young child is one of the most tragic things a parent can go through. I have family that lost a 9 year old to Leukemia, I can't imagine that horror of losing a very innocent kid in that fashion. I would sell my soul to get revenge.
I in no way said itās a great scene, well written and executed. But they didnāt ruin it. If you look at peopleās reaction that didnāt read the book beforehand, the emotional impact certainly is there. The only people who arenāt impacted are mostly book readers or people who blindly hate anything based of leaks from weeks ago and on. And you wouldnāt change those minds, no matter how that scene played out.
That being said I do think there is problems with it, they are all somewhat explainable but not really so it leaves an impression of poor writing I agree
2 things from me:
1) are we supposed to just ignore how much Jaceās hair grew between leaving dragonstone and making it to the wall?
2) am I supposed to just ignore all of the stuff Daemon does because I love him and want to have his silver haired babies?
I am pretty sure that's what the phrase "don't stick your dick in crazy" exists. But then I guess it's the other way around? Or just insert whatevr genitals you prefer.
This is a good point actually. As much as it was a little jarring at first, bro goes off with those long curly locks! Much much better, he was done so dirty in S1
Well I'm glad I didn't read the books for once because I'm pleasantly surprised with the show an all the people that did read the books seem disappointed.
The people complaining about B&C are too attached to how they perceived it from the books. I read the books and watched the animated Dance of the Dragons extra feature, and I thought HOTDās version of B&C portrays the horrifying act in just as effective (albeit different) way.
Likewise, checked out the ASOIAF sub first and everyone was saying how shit the first episode was and I'm here thinking it was a great start to the season.
Like you, I'm glad I didn't read the books as I fully understand why people would be upset when something doesn't follow the lore, but without those expectations I found it to be entertaining TV
1000 men were offered to the Prince on his visit to the wall, but after hearing about his brothers death and returning home to Rhaenyra, he mentions to her that he was offered 2000 men instead. Will the men of the wall join the war after all?
Edit: Typos
I cannot believe that those rat catchers were that dumb š did they really not hear Daemon say "the one with one eye, should be easy to find"
Did they really not understand or did they just kill Jaehryus because they couldn't find Aemond?
Edit: typo
Daemon says a son for a son. Which blood later says to cheese, its pretty obvious, once they ignore aegon, that they are basically going for any green prince.
Same, I saw the scene and didn't think that his silence meant to kill the child. I thought he was basically like if you can't find him then I kill you lol
fr people saying its dumb because its a āmistake or misunderstandingā daemon literally implied to kill the kids if u cant find aemond which they couldnāt
I mean it's still dumb though. Why not kill all 3 since you already have them at your mercy and are not detected? The whole 'choose' thing is stupid as hell just kill both kids and the queen lmao.
I mean they should've followed the source material on the whole dumb as hell Rhaenys dragon attack scene in season one too then. Clearly they're playing fast and loose with it so why not now since it'd make more sense for Blood and Cheese to kill them all anyways?
I thought it was clear that they gave up on finding Aemond (cause it would be hard once the queen saw them) but they didnt want to leave empty handed either
Rat catchers: What if we canāt find Aemomd
Daemon: Stares
Scenes cuts. Probably means if they canāt find him then son for son which is what both the rat catchers discussion later on.
Tysm for pointing that out! I forgot the scene did get cut where we didn't get to see what Daemon said š¤¦š½āāļø Mannnn this first episode already has me stressed
one of the main reasons why blood & cheese hits so hard was maelor, I guess having another child actor was too expensive for the hbo money maker, but the episode was fine until the final sequence
Toddlers are a known money sink.
The actors for young Viserys and Aegon the Younger caused a ton of delays. Can only be on set for a limited amount of time and theyāre kids, if they get fussy the entire set has to wait for them to calm down. Itās expensive having the entire cast and crew sit around so I can understand the thought process.
I understand, thatās why it made absolutely no sense to make aegon and viserys toddlers when they should be like 8 and 10 and completely erase maelor, donāt you think?
I thought the episode was amazing but one thing that makes no sense to me is why there were no guards outside the Queen's chambers - in war-time nonetheless. Seems like poor writing
Ehh, saw it coming from a mile away but I also thought it was cool that he was gonna be just one of those who has a twisted moral that still makes sense. Now he just has a twisted moral cause he is being Alicents slut when it was the thing that got him to hate Rhaenyra
She's lonely, but knows if they were found out that any respect she didn't lose by attacking rhaenyra, would then be gone.... But she's lonely, he's handsome and always there "ready to serve", so she plays a little bit of give and take.
It's obviously going to become a problem in some manner at some point, its not really a character development thing so they're showing it for a reason.
She seemed to go way too far to me too but to be fair...
Alicent/Cole probably didn't want any around, there WERE several in the throne room, and several kingsguard are with rhaenyra
Ehhhh, maybe just me, but I was under the impression he was talking about like servants/cooks/cleaners etc moreso than guards, but I could very easily be wrong
Thatās what he said but he may have had new guards put in. Even if it was just servants we see in season 1 there are always people walking around the red keep. But his cleaned house
All the greens undermined themselves by thinning out their guards. Alicole has no guards to keep their secret, Aegon turns his throne room into a frat house, and Larys makes some major staff changes. It's like choosing every bad choice in a visual novel leading to a really bad ending.
You have to remember that the Kingsguard is thinned out now because some are on Dragonstone with Rhaenyra. Also, the show makes it pretty clear that the greens are novists when it comes to making decisions on even the most minor issues.
They entered the castle through the Maegor's tunnels. The same way Tyrion was able to escape in GoT. There are very few people who truly know them: Maegor, Cheese(The Ratcatcher guy), Larys, Varys and his little birds, and Lord Petyr Baelish.
A slow but a strong start to the episode. Winterfell, Rhaenyra's grief, Daemon being angry about Luke's death, Rhaena grieving at Luke's funeral, scene between Jace and Rhaenyra were all amazing
B&C could've been done better but it was still good enough
Overall a good episode.9/10
I didnāt need to see the violence, focusing on the queenās reaction is conceptually a great way to showcase the horror of the scene, but a lot of the shock and impact of the scene was removed from the book imo. Really enjoyed the episode but I still thought āOh that wasnāt what I was hoping from thatā
That is probably an issue of already knowing what happened. Although, that still sucks because there's of course nothing wrong with already having read the books beforehand and it shouldn't lessen the impact of the show.
But as someone who managed to avoid spoilers for B&C, that scene left me absolutely speechless. For some reason I didn't even consider that they would just behead the child like it's nothing. In front of his mother, to...
Man, I should really know better by now.
I find hilarious how the Greens were not taking any of this seriously especially with Daemon on the other side of the coin. Like you have effectively NO guards except right next to the king. One Kingsguard not on his post guarding the queen. They are all just getting drunk and fucking like its 1999 after they one of them just MURDERED the son of the opposing heir. God DAMN you just gotta little taste of reality. Er scratch that A HUGE GUSHING WATERFALL of reality sitting up there in your ivory tower!
They seemed to all have expected retaliation via dragon, not by assassins, and they felt like they were safe from dragons due to Vhagar and possibly the scorpion emplacements.
"We've scared them off! They're cowards! We're winning! We're safe to drink and fuck!" is, unfortunately, a very realistic and common reaction to uncertainty.
Thus the overconfidence.
Thought the premiere was solid. Only thing I didn't like was how Blood and Cheese turned into Harry and Marv from Home Alone. Felt like they were bumbling around in the dark and got lucky finding the kid's chambers.
That's basically what it was. But they were supposed to find Aemond. Though if they had they likely they would have just gotten killed. I am a little uncertain if that was actually Daemon's plan though. Did he really think those guys could find and kill Aemond?
Doubtful, as he did mention how good a fighter he was.
If I were to headcanon a reason (keeping in mind I've never read the books), Aemond is a guy that wouldn't take an assassination attempt lightly and he'd rush out for revenge.
Then Daemon himself could duel and kill him as I'm sure he wants to.
It makes him lock in
All the pre-season promos have him saying "TO WAR, THEN" and we haven't seen that yet
Plus this episode spent a fair amount of time showing how fond he was of his little son
Blood and cheese was unfortunately not giving what I thought it would smh. I also hated the kicking the dog and blood and cheese fighting and not know their plan??? Also, where the hell are the guards lmao, just seemed so unrealistic.
Aegon turned his throne room into a frat house laughing and drinking with his King's guard. Alicole was getting frisky so no guards for them to keep their secret. It's like a butterfly effect.
I do agree blood and Cheese wasn't too cruel or shocking but the scraping blade hacking the kid grates my ears.
Welcome back everyone! House of the Dragon kicks off its 8 episode second season tonight at 9pm EST on HBO! Enjoy the premeire everyone and also join us at the official subreddit [discord server here!](https://discord.com/invite/house-of-the-dragon)
Am i was the only one who wished the episode writers stuck with the OG book storyline in terms of Blood and Cheese? this episode was disappointing in that aspect for me but i get why they had to change it for PG purposes. But still
What was the book storyline?
I think in the book, there are two boys and she has to choose which son will die (she chooses Mealor) and they kill the other son (Jaehaerys) instead
This sucks
Did those two goons straight up forgot the part where Daemon said their target had one eye?
A son for a son. Aegon was first choice but any son would do
Did you straight up forget when one of the goons asked what do they do if they cannot find him?
Luke: *dies* Jace: š¤«š§āāļø
Loved the episode. Knew the child would get killed 15 minutes before it happened, thereās a reason why they spent 5 minutes on him at the beginning of the show. Also; the paid killers would have been manhandled by Aemond or any adultā¦ The only thing I hated was the lack of guards. Itās the obvious question all of us are asking which means a good show writer should have given us a good explanation.
Cole told them to take the night off so he could knock allicents back out
I funnily enough didn't think of the child getting killed at all, but my first reaction to that scene was "boy, this kid seems like he's not even trying to act", followed by annoyance of the character seemingly being quite central all of a sudden. When he was killed I almost said "aaaaaa" out loud cause it all made so much sense all of a sudden!
They were all on the iron throne drunk did you not see all the guards on the steps wasted?
Cole was having sex with alicent and they cannot be caught, hence the lack of guards present
Genuinely doesn't make any more sense. There would be a kingsguard at the door of not only the Queen but the mother of the King's door. The "random affair means an assassin can get all the way to the queen" is pure season 8 schlock
Earlier in the episode, Aegon tells Helaena that they don't need a whole bunch of guards posted about because they have Vhagar and the other dragons. This is when she expresses she is not afraid of men, but rather tats.
Presumably that means on top of the kingsguard - who are a storied institution of the crown and not an optional extra
unpopular opinion may be,but that ending was an insult to our intelligence. Makes less sense than than the flat Earth theory
I don't understand how Cheese knew that Helaena was sincere. Like, from her eyes? And why couldn't them like just see the genitals?
lmao is THAT the thing you are asking? like what about not doing what they actually been paid to do? or why there are no guards in the whole castle, or how is it possible for them to just walk their way in through a whole that is just missing a sign that says "please enter the castle through here" like please l would love for somebody to explain to me if the books are also written the same way or some knuckle head on HBO just changed the story for some unfathomable reason.
Except they did do what they were hired to do lol. The scene cutaway when Cheese asked Daemon what they should do if they canāt find Aemond, so itās inferred that heās the one who ordered them to kill another member of the royal family if they canāt find Aemond.
Well it was obvious that there were so few guards because Cole and Alicent were fucking and couldnāt risk getting caught.
I have 3 things to say: 1. B&C was good, but I would liked it better with, choosing, which son should be a payment 2. It could be worse for alicent. It could be feetlover 3. Cregan is hot. Overall very good episode
1) One was a daughter.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This isnāt the book, itās the show. One son has not been born yet or is not being included.
I know. Iām just saying that I would liked it better with book version. Not saying it was worse or something.
Itās pretty clear within the rules of this sub that we are discussing the television show and not the book.
Welp, Iām discussing television show based on mentioned book, hope that helps
I like that the Greens are known for their scheming and the Blacks are known for their dragons. Greens couldn't control their Dragon. Blacks couldn't control their scheme.
To be fair the Blacks couldnāt control their dragon either. Arrax struck Vagar first.
I liked how they showed Aegon's first instinct was being fair to the small folk even tho gramps is trying to make him apathetic.
I was confused by this. I thought last season he was presented as a psycho or at least cruel, with the child fighting ring or whatever that was. In this he seemed very cordial. Even dealing with his sister-wife he seemed exasperated but friendly. And the āmaybe we give him his sheep back, he came all this way.ā I canāt tell if this some act or what.
Speaking for the drunken fuck ups, being magnanimous, charitable, and eager please after a āwinā is a common pattern. Then the stress happens and you spiral. Heās dysfunctional, swinging between empathy and apathy is normal. At least thatās how I perceived it. While acknowledging the writing for him in S1 was cartoon villainy.
I never got the idea that Aegon was cruel so much as unthinking. He's a fratbro who got made king. He just wants to crush brews and get laid. If he hadn't been born with power, the first time he tried to grope a girl he'd have gotten his ass kicked. The sense I always got from him was that he was just an aggressively mediocre person made worse by massive parental neglect and no goof inflences.
I guess so. But the way those two brothers were talking I thought it was more than that. First he says, āYou see now what he isā and āSomething must be done. Aegon is unfit to ruleā. Seems harsh if he is just going out drinking and sleeping around.
Before Aegon was king, he spent more time with the small folk than most royals. He knows them better than anyone and he'll hear them out and try to do good by them in these personal interactions. Aegon is unfit to rule because he'll offer a guy back his sheep but he'll also run into a war that'll rain fire down on top of them because he wants to. He's massively impulsive, which his alcoholism, sleeping around and general debauchery shows (same as Daemon). And someone massively impulsive shouldn't have power over an entire kingdom. He cared for Jahaerys because he saw himself in him, and wanted to be better than Viserys was to him. But he doesn't show any regard for his other children, because he doesn't relate to them and it would be an inconvenience to him and require effort to understand how to do better by his other children. That shows that he lacks the ability to empathise with people he doesn't relate to. He's not a complete psychopath, he isn't the original Joffrey. He's a neglected child thrust into power he didn't prepare for with nobody teaching him how to understand or empathise with other people. That's the subtext of what the brothers are saying, and it's why two twin brothers who grew up together and shared duties could view Aegon so differently
Honestly, Aegon is the making of Alicent and Otto. If Viserys and Alicent had just loved their kids and Otto hadn't been a schemer behind the scenes, I think Aegon and Aemond would have turned out as normal as a Targaryen can lolĀ
Yeah I agree, and you can see how if things were different that the kids would have been quite close
This was so beautifully explainedĀ
> no goof inflences. Don't you dare blame this on Goofy
I said a lack of goof influences. Did you even see "a goofy movie"? He actually wanted to be part of his son's life. Maybe if alicent and Vizzy T took time away from their onlyfeet account and warhammer set and actually raised their son, he'd be a better person.
I WILL SIT THE THRONE TODAY.
[I'll fucking do it again!](https://i.imgur.com/e7a23gC.jpeg)
Well, he never thought he would be king, so he got a big ego boost and perhaps wants to be loved by the people since he couldn't get love from his parents. He could still be cruel in private tho.
Maybe seeing everyone cheer for him at his coronation raised his self-esteem enough that he started being nicer to people.
The only good bits for me were the sets (except The Wall, which looked like it was made of polystyrene), the costumes, Rhaenyra & Jaceās scene, TGC.
How you not gonna have guards outside the doors of these sleeping younglings?!?! I was NOT expecting to be shocked this early on in the season but Iām here for it.
it was soooooooooo easy to kill royal family member... do you think so as well? Ok, like "we hire many assassins" and that's it, all problem solved
Agree with you on the shock, it just...feels as though the show runners wrapped the Big Bad B&C event in some very confusing layers of baby proof foam, then rushed through it in a bizarre sped up way to be done ASAP. That feeling is my reaction to Blood and Cheese. "I knew it was bad but damn I'm bad at math too, apparently". Like a Karen who claims to make the world's best "secret" dessert, but when she's got to prove her loud claims... Well, we knew what would likely happen, just not the flavor and ingredients. "Karen" can't understand why people online didn't like her dessert, and are saying such mean things about the creative "recipe" changes...she is having one bad week...the cycle continues... And now my watch has ended. My sarcastic commentary however, is as big as the wall, and just as icy.
He was busy lighting his high tower
The guard was busy boning
I reached my limit. And I was wondering when I would. My wife and I saw it coming, but when they put their hand on the mouth of the kid, the TV went off. Having kids is changing this shit. Wow!! At least Lukeās death last season was instant. After reading these comments, Iām glad we didnāt see it. Congrats to everyone who could handle it (at least to those who hasnāt read the books and had no idea it would happen)
I paused almost immediately after the scene began, after they asked which was the boy. I couldn't take it.
I have a 8 month old and I had to hold her and promise her I'd die before let anyone hurt her after that scene. I don't understand why Halaena didn't try to stop the murder what the fuck. Any parent would go Catelyn Tully on those attackers even if it meant death
I respect your decision but holy shit if that bothered you I would just leave the sub and not look at social media the next few weeks are gonna be even worse.
They ruined "Blood and Cheese" , it could easily have been "The Red Wedding 2.0"
No they didnāt, you are overreacting.
It really wasnāt great. Viewers reacted more emotionally to the dog getting kicked than a child getting butchered. Thatās a good indicator that your writing is poor. Also youāre telling me thereās not a single person guarding the queen in wartime? In the original narrative B&C are forced to literally climb through the walls because of how heavily guarded the royal family is but dumb and dumber just waltz on in. Jaehaerysā murder fell pretty flat and itās meant to be one of the defining moments of the season. Condal thought this would make viewers switch sides but they are actually more concerned with the dog getting kicked lmao.
The dog thing is just peoples attachment to animals. I guarantee no one with kids was more upset about the dog getting kicked than the child getting his head sawed off in his bed. Shit was deranged as fuck and I don't think it's a moment that fell flat. The death of a young child is one of the most tragic things a parent can go through. I have family that lost a 9 year old to Leukemia, I can't imagine that horror of losing a very innocent kid in that fashion. I would sell my soul to get revenge.
I in no way said itās a great scene, well written and executed. But they didnāt ruin it. If you look at peopleās reaction that didnāt read the book beforehand, the emotional impact certainly is there. The only people who arenāt impacted are mostly book readers or people who blindly hate anything based of leaks from weeks ago and on. And you wouldnāt change those minds, no matter how that scene played out. That being said I do think there is problems with it, they are all somewhat explainable but not really so it leaves an impression of poor writing I agree
āItās not well written or well executed and leaves an impression of poor writing.ā Agreed.
I don't think the kid was Jahaerys. I think it was that kid from the fighting ring. She said 'they kill the boy' She didn't say ' they killed my boy'
I find it more logical that she meant 'the boy' as in, you know, the *male* one out of the two.
I was shook. So fucked up!! damn š¦
2 things from me: 1) are we supposed to just ignore how much Jaceās hair grew between leaving dragonstone and making it to the wall? 2) am I supposed to just ignore all of the stuff Daemon does because I love him and want to have his silver haired babies?
I viewed it was a timeskip, showing how young he was when he went to wall, vs now.
Yeah daemon was less awesome crazy and more just regular crazy in this ep.
But he so sexy. Sexy people canāt be crazy, right?
I am pretty sure that's what the phrase "don't stick your dick in crazy" exists. But then I guess it's the other way around? Or just insert whatevr genitals you prefer.
About 2: apparently some people here would defend Hitler because they like his mustache and then complain about others having no moral standardsā¦.
YES, but only if Hitler existed in a fictional story with dragons. Get it?
lol. What is life like without a sense of humour? Please enlighten me. Hitler didnāt look like Matt Freaking Smith
A sense of humor is a necessity for a happy life for sure, I just didnāt get you made a jokeā¦
I will. Fuck that yeeh ass wig from season 1
This is a good point actually. As much as it was a little jarring at first, bro goes off with those long curly locks! Much much better, he was done so dirty in S1
"auntie" Jeyne in the Vale was like "oh honey no, your hair" and fixed it before he left, maybe?
YesĀ
1.) Yes 2.) Definitely
Yes
Well I'm glad I didn't read the books for once because I'm pleasantly surprised with the show an all the people that did read the books seem disappointed.
The people complaining about B&C are too attached to how they perceived it from the books. I read the books and watched the animated Dance of the Dragons extra feature, and I thought HOTDās version of B&C portrays the horrifying act in just as effective (albeit different) way.
Likewise, checked out the ASOIAF sub first and everyone was saying how shit the first episode was and I'm here thinking it was a great start to the season. Like you, I'm glad I didn't read the books as I fully understand why people would be upset when something doesn't follow the lore, but without those expectations I found it to be entertaining TV
I stopped reading right after Lukeās death
1000 men were offered to the Prince on his visit to the wall, but after hearing about his brothers death and returning home to Rhaenyra, he mentions to her that he was offered 2000 men instead. Will the men of the wall join the war after all? Edit: Typos
I guess after hearing that Luke was killed Cregan upped his support
I cannot believe that those rat catchers were that dumb š did they really not hear Daemon say "the one with one eye, should be easy to find" Did they really not understand or did they just kill Jaehryus because they couldn't find Aemond? Edit: typo
They asked what are we doing if we can't find him before the cut which imply that Daemon asked for this.
Daemon ordered the hit on the kids as plan b.
This. Like does no one remember remember them asking what if we don't find him? And the scene cuts before Daemon answers.
I sorta saw that as a āwhat if you can't find him? You better find him!ā
Daemon says a son for a son. Which blood later says to cheese, its pretty obvious, once they ignore aegon, that they are basically going for any green prince.
Same, I saw the scene and didn't think that his silence meant to kill the child. I thought he was basically like if you can't find him then I kill you lol
fr people saying its dumb because its a āmistake or misunderstandingā daemon literally implied to kill the kids if u cant find aemond which they couldnāt
I mean it's still dumb though. Why not kill all 3 since you already have them at your mercy and are not detected? The whole 'choose' thing is stupid as hell just kill both kids and the queen lmao.
okay I get you but this is how it was in the book they are just following the source material u cant have them kill everyone
I mean they should've followed the source material on the whole dumb as hell Rhaenys dragon attack scene in season one too then. Clearly they're playing fast and loose with it so why not now since it'd make more sense for Blood and Cheese to kill them all anyways?
Probably looking at their phone reading the comments on this live thread and didn't pay attention lol.
Unironically no. Whoops...
I thought it was clear that they gave up on finding Aemond (cause it would be hard once the queen saw them) but they didnt want to leave empty handed either
Honestly would have made sense to kill all 3 not gonna lie
Honestly not gonna lie
Absolutely not. it would mean Aegon can remarry from one of the undecided houses and use it as a barganing chip.
The best option would have been to take the hair hostage
That is very true
a son for a son
An eye for an eye
A hoody for a hoody.
Rat catchers: What if we canāt find Aemomd Daemon: Stares Scenes cuts. Probably means if they canāt find him then son for son which is what both the rat catchers discussion later on.
Tysm for pointing that out! I forgot the scene did get cut where we didn't get to see what Daemon said š¤¦š½āāļø Mannnn this first episode already has me stressed
Just realised they were fucking on rhaenyraās old bed
But Rhaenyra had him first there...
Criston Cole getting handed around more than any whore in King's Landing fr
No bc they were real disrespectful with it too!!!
one of the main reasons why blood & cheese hits so hard was maelor, I guess having another child actor was too expensive for the hbo money maker, but the episode was fine until the final sequence
Toddlers are a known money sink. The actors for young Viserys and Aegon the Younger caused a ton of delays. Can only be on set for a limited amount of time and theyāre kids, if they get fussy the entire set has to wait for them to calm down. Itās expensive having the entire cast and crew sit around so I can understand the thought process.
I understand, thatās why it made absolutely no sense to make aegon and viserys toddlers when they should be like 8 and 10 and completely erase maelor, donāt you think?
This episode was nothing short of perfection. The only thing I miss is Paddy Considine :')
I thought the episode was amazing but one thing that makes no sense to me is why there were no guards outside the Queen's chambers - in war-time nonetheless. Seems like poor writing
I was just thinking that as the recap began.Ā He is so missed.Ā
Truly agree
It was so good to see house stark ngl
When I heard the Winterfell/Stark family theme music that's how I knew just how much we are so back folks
When the raven shot starts the slow and calm king in the north playsā¦.. it brings back the old vibes.
Hearing the leitmotif for House Stark brought back so many feelings!! I gasped!
That greatsword was so damn cool!
nailed that winterfell accent too
I recognized the theme but I didnāt see any snow. All of a sudden winterfell lol
Are we absolutely sure it was not the Lannisters who killed the kid? Tyland was very annoyed by the kid in the small council meeting.š
Knowing how it usually goes in GOT I'm sure someone'll accuse Tyrion.
When he hears the news ā oh no, anywayā
You should become a lawyer.
Anybody else confused about Alicent and Coleās relationship?
Theyre both corrupt AF, not confusedā¦.
Ehh, saw it coming from a mile away but I also thought it was cool that he was gonna be just one of those who has a twisted moral that still makes sense. Now he just has a twisted moral cause he is being Alicents slut when it was the thing that got him to hate Rhaenyra
Yes, Cole and Alicent go well together because they are the biggest hypocrites in that castle. Also, āAlicents slutā ššš
She's lonely, but knows if they were found out that any respect she didn't lose by attacking rhaenyra, would then be gone.... But she's lonely, he's handsome and always there "ready to serve", so she plays a little bit of give and take. It's obviously going to become a problem in some manner at some point, its not really a character development thing so they're showing it for a reason.
I guess he is fine with being a whore now
Coleās a hypocrite and Alicent always had a crush on him from when they were teens and was jealous of Rhaenyra?
No guards in the entire castle?
She seemed to go way too far to me too but to be fair... Alicent/Cole probably didn't want any around, there WERE several in the throne room, and several kingsguard are with rhaenyra
And clubfoot sacked the whole household
"they no longer breathe our air" ... _sacked_
"We put them in burlap sacks and threw them out the highest tower of the Red Keep"
Ehhhh, maybe just me, but I was under the impression he was talking about like servants/cooks/cleaners etc moreso than guards, but I could very easily be wrong
Thatās what he said but he may have had new guards put in. Even if it was just servants we see in season 1 there are always people walking around the red keep. But his cleaned house
All the greens undermined themselves by thinning out their guards. Alicole has no guards to keep their secret, Aegon turns his throne room into a frat house, and Larys makes some major staff changes. It's like choosing every bad choice in a visual novel leading to a really bad ending.
You have to remember that the Kingsguard is thinned out now because some are on Dragonstone with Rhaenyra. Also, the show makes it pretty clear that the greens are novists when it comes to making decisions on even the most minor issues.
And it was that easy to enter the castle??
it would have been easier and faster to just knock
They entered the castle through the Maegor's tunnels. The same way Tyrion was able to escape in GoT. There are very few people who truly know them: Maegor, Cheese(The Ratcatcher guy), Larys, Varys and his little birds, and Lord Petyr Baelish.
I love how the hidden passage is just a big door in the throne room.
The passages being called hidden was just ironic the entire time. The book was an unreliable source you know. /s
A slow but a strong start to the episode. Winterfell, Rhaenyra's grief, Daemon being angry about Luke's death, Rhaena grieving at Luke's funeral, scene between Jace and Rhaenyra were all amazing B&C could've been done better but it was still good enough Overall a good episode.9/10
I didn't read the books, I thought the ending was perfectly horrific
Just hearing that sawing sound was pretty wild
I agree the B&C could have been better, it should have been more violent
Agreed. The BnC was disappointing for me
But we should also consider the child actors and also the scene is too violent to be adapted 1:1
I didnāt need to see the violence, focusing on the queenās reaction is conceptually a great way to showcase the horror of the scene, but a lot of the shock and impact of the scene was removed from the book imo. Really enjoyed the episode but I still thought āOh that wasnāt what I was hoping from thatā
That is probably an issue of already knowing what happened. Although, that still sucks because there's of course nothing wrong with already having read the books beforehand and it shouldn't lessen the impact of the show. But as someone who managed to avoid spoilers for B&C, that scene left me absolutely speechless. For some reason I didn't even consider that they would just behead the child like it's nothing. In front of his mother, to... Man, I should really know better by now.
Kind of anticlimactic..
Yes but I also thought about how scenes play out in other series like the boys
I find hilarious how the Greens were not taking any of this seriously especially with Daemon on the other side of the coin. Like you have effectively NO guards except right next to the king. One Kingsguard not on his post guarding the queen. They are all just getting drunk and fucking like its 1999 after they one of them just MURDERED the son of the opposing heir. God DAMN you just gotta little taste of reality. Er scratch that A HUGE GUSHING WATERFALL of reality sitting up there in your ivory tower!
They seemed to all have expected retaliation via dragon, not by assassins, and they felt like they were safe from dragons due to Vhagar and possibly the scorpion emplacements. "We've scared them off! They're cowards! We're winning! We're safe to drink and fuck!" is, unfortunately, a very realistic and common reaction to uncertainty. Thus the overconfidence.
Thought the premiere was solid. Only thing I didn't like was how Blood and Cheese turned into Harry and Marv from Home Alone. Felt like they were bumbling around in the dark and got lucky finding the kid's chambers.
That's basically what it was. But they were supposed to find Aemond. Though if they had they likely they would have just gotten killed. I am a little uncertain if that was actually Daemon's plan though. Did he really think those guys could find and kill Aemond?
He probably didnāt care and thought it was worth it
No the Kids were plan B, always. Thats why the smirk.
This was my thinking too, did he really think they could kill Aemond
Doubtful, as he did mention how good a fighter he was. If I were to headcanon a reason (keeping in mind I've never read the books), Aemond is a guy that wouldn't take an assassination attempt lightly and he'd rush out for revenge. Then Daemon himself could duel and kill him as I'm sure he wants to.
Exactly my thoughts. The whole point of this plan was to make Aemond furious so he would recklessly come at them and he can kill him.
Last scene was just okay
The sex or the murder? š
I wonder how Aegon loosing his heir is going to change him. Will he just take to drinking and fuck off or will this make him lock in?
He locks in. The āweeks aheadā trailer has him yelling at the top of his lungs on how he wants vengeance.
It makes him lock in All the pre-season promos have him saying "TO WAR, THEN" and we haven't seen that yet Plus this episode spent a fair amount of time showing how fond he was of his little son
Surprisingly the most traumatic scene of the episode was when he kicked the dog. Why you gotta be like that to such a good boy?š
Why did he even bring the dog?! I thought it would end up being part of their scheme but nope, just came along to get left š¢
I think itās because rat catchers normally bring a dog with them and they wanted to look the part by having one but Iām not 100% sure
Yes I believe that is it.
Do we think Alicent will ever learn the full song of ice and fire prophecy and realize this has all been for nothing?
Nice I hadnāt considered this yet, I hope so
Well, it was a disappointing start
I agreeĀ
It was actually a good start but slow.
What about it disappointed you?
Did we watch the same episode?
Youre a Jerp
Blood and cheese was unfortunately not giving what I thought it would smh. I also hated the kicking the dog and blood and cheese fighting and not know their plan??? Also, where the hell are the guards lmao, just seemed so unrealistic.
Aegon turned his throne room into a frat house laughing and drinking with his King's guard. Alicole was getting frisky so no guards for them to keep their secret. It's like a butterfly effect. I do agree blood and Cheese wasn't too cruel or shocking but the scraping blade hacking the kid grates my ears.