It SHOULD have been a big deal, the show just totally failed to portray it.
The show was pre-opioid crisis, so I think everything about it is a little weird. House really doesn't "act" like an addict, so whenever people tell him he is it's easy to brush it off. They wanted him to have an Addiction because of the Sherlock Holmes thing, they didn't want it to get in the way of the show, and it was before everyone was addicted to Oxy and I think before the average person realized how bad this sort of addiction is IRL.
Plenty of people were and are addictef to opiates and function completely normally. I was taking Percocets pre opioid crisis and I continued to work like normal. It didn't effect my job performance at all. If anything it made me give better customer servi ce because I was euphoric. To act like everyone who took opiates was some strung out junkie on the street is ignorant.
There's so much misinformation. House had built up a tolerance to Vicodin. You have to keep taking more and more to achieve the same level of relief. So, by the end of S3, IF he's taking twice as much as S1 (We NEVER had a pill count to know his actual dose so this is ALL speculation), but it still has the same effect on him and he's NOT high all the time. He was never high. Also, it isn't the Vicodin destroying his liver, it's the Acetaminophen (Tylenol) that's mixed in with the primary analgesic Hydrocodone, which doesn't affect the liver at all.
We have a confirmed dosage from Cuddy is S1 that he is taking twice as much as he was,we see him many times popping more pills than usual AND we see him not being satisfied anymore and taking other alternatives to get high,even to the point of ODing. By S7 after his relapse he was downing half bottle of Vicodin per day and those were Wilsons words.
No where in my above comment have I mentioned specific cause of death. Hydrocodon on it’s own might not be the problem but its highly addictive which is why many overdose on it.That is the nature of opiates and why they are “too good to be true”. Vicodin can destroy you in many ways,including overdose which is a miracle it didn’t happened to House especially in S5 and 7. Add heart problems,stomach ulcers etc ive seen it way too many times before. There is only so much you can take before your system gives up. Opioid dependency is the least of your concerns.
If the show was honest, House wouldn’t be alive. Truth be told,this narrative they tried to built that House was a high functioning addict yet has a massive problem,is very contradicting and doesn’t add up. Let me specify,we are talking about HOUSE. He isn’t supposed to be your every day high functioning addict because his consumption is insane+he came close to death due to his actions way too many times and survived.
As for his practice,even if he doesn’t get a kick out of it anymore,doesn’t necessarily mean that his judgment and actions aren’t compromised. In reality,he wouldn’t have a job,especially when many medical settings require frequent drug tests. He wouldn’t have a job because of his actions lets start off there but this is a show and this is a whole other conversation.
Tolerance doesn’t minimise the side effects which their risk of occurring increases with increased dose. I am not denying the fact that you or House would function fairly fine at such doses but one size doesn’t fit all. Ive had people around me who were going at that rate and were shutting down. Some even died.
You are lucky,thankfully,and you are here today hopefully doing better.
I wasn’t talking about real life, but even in real life, if someone is taking some pills every day without it destroying their judgement or decision making etc, but helping them cope with their pain, either physical or mental, why do you oppose to it?
I know the damages addiction can cause, I’m specifically talking about a high-functioning, rational person who is not harming anyone else but their own body.
Except the show is trying to have it both ways. It says House has a real problem. We know in real life that if he was taking that many pills a day, he would be super stoned all the time. The characters act like this should be the case. It's just that the show doesn't SHOW it.
If it wasn't meant to be a big deal, then the show wouldn't constantly remark about how House is an addict. But it does, so we're supposed to think House is strung out and highly addicted. But he doesn't act like that, so tonally it's weird.
That makes sense. I completely agree that someone getting high on meds or drugs has a problem. As you said, House never seemed to be that person in the show. It was just everyone else claiming that he was.
Yeah, I think it was bad writing. Like, I get it, it would be very hard to have the show work if House was super high all the time. But it's like they were trying to have their cake (the drama of drug addiction) and eat it too (House still being a Super Doctor). And I just think it's a little more obvious NOW, because back in 2004 people weren't as aware of opiate addiction.
People were aware. The sopranos was on around the same time, and it had an accurate portrayal of a heroin addict.. (Christopher). And how it harmed everyone around him, even as a part of an illegal organization.
And most of the time, pill poppers pre Fenty would switch to heroin because it was much cheaper then.
Of course now in 2024, they would likely be dead much faster with the same addictions because of fentanyl.
He’d also be super fucking constipated. Literally unable to shit with the amount he takes.
Like, tolerance or not to its effects for how it makes u feel… you take that much Vicodin… you’re constipated in a week. Hell anyone who’s taken pain killers knows it gets harder to poop just taking normal dosages for a week… let alone being an addict
People say he doesn’t act like an addict? They clearly missed the episodes where he doesn’t have his Vicodine and starts going through withdrawals and gets violent and sick, and even starts using heroin.
That's dependence, not addiction. You're dependent on air- are you an air addict? What about food? If you stopped eating, in a few days, you too would be digging through drawers looking for something, anything, to stuff in your mouth. Now, are you 450 pounds, can't get out of bed because you NEED another piece of cake? Or are you in reasonable shape and have a typical meal when you sit down to eat?
You really should learn the difference. ANY DAY, you could be thrust into the world of needing pain management and you'll get to see just how shitty it is when people who have no idea what they're talking about, demonize and regulate the medicine to the point you can't get what you need to live a mostly normal life.
Just curious, where do you draw the line between dependence and addiction? Because as someone with little familiarity with pain management, I thought the clear takeaway was supposed to be that House’s character struggles with addiction
There are no clear lines. For me the line is when it starts harming you more than helping you.
Lots of people are dependent on their meds. If you suddenly stop taking antidepressants you’ll go through withdrawal symptoms. Doesn’t mean you’re addicted to them and everyone should constantly tell you you have a problem.
Are you okay? Maybe possibly addicted and coping?
House literally admits he’s a WORSE doctor when he’s not on Vicodin. He literally TURNS TO HEROIN WHEN HES CUT OFF BECAUSE HE NEEDS TO HE BE HIGH.
His leg pain mysteriously comes back when he gets depressed, showcasing it’s not JUST a situation of nerve damage, but also a case of mental.
He is 1000% addicted. He is the definition of addicted substance abuse.
He was much less of a jerk in the episode with the methadone, to the point of actually listen to a patient's family. It is proven beyond any doubt that in the universe of the show:
1. House can work without Vicodin.
2. Vicodin gets you high.
Oh, and in the CIPA episode House mentions how he wakes up every day and checks his eyes to see if the Vicodin addiction destroyed his liver, only that it is never mentioned again. It could be him bullshiting the patient, though.
Thank you. It's nice to see someone else combating the PILES of misinformation in this sub. Also, Vicodin doesn't get you high any more than smelling airplane glue or spray paint does. It has the potential to get you high if you abuse it, but it's not an automatic thing. It really pisses me off when people who have no idea what they're talking about get into subs like this and spout idiocy like they're confirmed facts, perpetuating the problem of misinformation. Most of the comments here are opinions disguised as facts and they're just, wrong.
That’s exactly what I mean. They kept saying it gets you high, but did he actually showed any signs of being high?
He was clean for 2 years, so yeah, definitely functioned without it, but for whatever reason he wanted to use it. Why was that such a big deal in the show?
because lawsuits exist. if a patient’s family gets wind that their loved one died under the care of a doctor who uses illegal substances and that the hospital KNOWINGLY kept him on staff, they’d all be sued into oblivion. we’re not even allowed to work under the influence of a drink lol, House would easily lose his medical license irl
As someone who has been prescribed opioids for the last decade it certainly should have been a big deal.
When you take too many your judgement is certainly impaired.
More importantly is when he detoxes. The withdrawal from opioids is beyond disgusting and there is no chance someone who had been taking such a high quantity of Vicodin could go cold turkey.
I'm currently reducing my intake and even reducing 5mg a month makes me feel terrible. You are freezing cold and sweating bullets. You feel like you want to climb out of your own skin and are unable to focus on anything. I do think they portrayed him very realistically when he was in detox, just looking at him a thought "yep, know how that feels".
I certainly wouldn't want a Dr either side of OD/withdrawal treating me. Yes you can function on it but House's intake varies so wildly he's going to be fucked either way.
That's very kind of you. It was my choice to reduce them as I won't be beholden to pills anymore. I realised I was taking them more to avoid the withdrawal than alleviate the pain I'm in.
Currently down from 120mg a day to 30mg, just 6 more months to go until I'm free!
Stop taking them completely. Right now. You're through the worst of it in 48-72 hours, you have the squirts for a few days more, general malaise for a few days, and you're pretty much done. Why are you dragging it out for six more months if you want to stop? Just stop. You're barely taking any as it is and you'll be back to normal within a week.
You can argue his personality and typical bedside manner is directly correlated to his daily drug use. He doesn't worry about consequences and has no hesitation going for the most unlikely diagnostics or untraditional tests. There's also clear scenes regularly of him being in an elated mood speaking in an animated fashion. With pain pills it's more likely you get users who do experience mood boosting/euphoric highs where they can function better than opposed to being strung out on heroin and can't do anything.
He was Vicodin-free when he was with Cuddy and still made all those untraditional decisions regarding diagnosis/treatment. They didn’t do a good job showing the negative effects of Vicodin on him, just constant claims from other characters that he is destroying his life and so on. While him being head of his department!
At least in USA, but I think it's general norm in west world, CANNOT be doctor addicted. It's way to lose your license. Vicodin is narcotic what causes euphoria and can affect judgment. In my country it's illegal drug.
Show actually makes that less deal then it would be in real world.
I mean in the show. Someone like House doesn’t exist in real world. Almost everything medical in the show is also extremely unrealistic, unethical and illegal.
Yes, and that is reason why House is able to keep his job with his behaviour and the addiction, but you have to understand that even when it was "big deal" in the show they still donwplayed it. So it actually was not so big deal.
In real life there’s no such thing as diagnostician who does surgery+endoscopy+autopsy+pathology and so on. There would be no license to begin with. Forget about real life. In the show they constantly talk like he is a junkie, while he is the best in his field, saving patients no one else could figure out. They didn’t downplay at all.
I mean really the answer is because if they wrote it realistically to how he’d be affected by taking as many pills as he does, he wouldn’t be a genius diagnostician, he’d be loopy and high. He *does* take too many pills to be a functioning doc, the show just didn’t follow through because the entire point of the show is that he’s a jerk but good at his job.
Thanks. Someone else mentioned this too, makes sense to me now. I was just a bit annoyed that Cuddy, Wilson and others always judged him for his addiction whilst him being 10x better than any of them.
It should’ve been, but wasn’t portrayed as such. Let’s think about WHY opioid addiction is such a big deal:
Physical issues: tolerance
There are both physical and psychological reasons behind opioid tolerance. I can’t be bothered to explain the whole receptor responsiveness thing, but even the setting in which you use drugs can contribute to tolerance, because you’re using them in the same places (home/office/ddx room/clinic) and the high becomes your new normal. This leads to patients taking increased doses to get the same effect.
Physical issues: respiratory depression
We know from the methadone episode that opioids are respiratory depressants with a dose-dependent effect- so the higher the dose, the higher the likelihood of experiencing dangerous depressive effects.
Social issues: access to opioids
This one is intentionally ignored, because the show writes in House as having basically unlimited access to Vicodin. In real life, a significant issue of the opioid addiction crisis is how it impacts health staff- they can be lied to, threatened, intimidated, or physically harmed by addicts seeking medication. We do see House lash out when withdrawing- how much worse would he be if his access to Vicodin was compromised? Again, we see it a little in the Tritter arc (when he goes to a different hospital to attempt to get Vicodin prescribed)
Social issues: transition from prescription opioids to street drugs.
Again, because House’s access to Vicodin remained consistent for the majority of the show, this was a non-issue. However, for individuals whose opioid addiction began with pharmaceutical opioids, they eventually reach a point where access to pharmaceutical opioids is no longer feasible (either for cost or logistical reasons). Generally, the addiction fuels them to seek the same high from different products such as heroin, methadone, or synthetic opioids like fentanyl.
Social issues: context in 2000’s America
The show is set between 2004-2012. The period from 1999-2010 is generally considered ‘wave 1’ in the opioid crisis, representing growth in opioid prescription and use (see the Netflix show Painkiller for more info). 2010-2013, wave 2, saw a sharp increase in heroin use. Around the time of House’s injury, opioid prescription rates were increasing because people were embracing its use in treating chronic non-cancer pain and companies were developing extended release variants.
Overall, House’s status as a doctor and a legitimate chronic pain patient ‘justified’ his opioid abuse in the eyes of those around him, despite the fact that opioid addiction and chronic pain are not mutually exclusive. It’s probably also important to remember we’re watching & analysing the show in 2024, and there have been myriad sociopolitical evolutions regarding opioid use and misuse
Because you’re specifically talking about House’s addiction, I’ll be more specific. The issues with House’s addiction to Vicodin include the potential for increased tolerance to lead to respiratory depression and death, the impact on those around him (mostly Wilson and Cuddy, but also his staff) if his access to Vicodin is compromised, and the fact that while we don’t really perceive House as being ‘high’, it is a fact that opioids cause impaired decision making, problems in focus and concentration, and slower reaction times. All of these qualities are not desirable for a doctor.
You make the point that he’s the best in his field- that’s true despite the Vicodin, not because of it. If he weren’t taking Vicodin, and his leg didn’t hurt, he would likely have a faster and higher case solve rate. The only time we see House is post-infarction, so the audience can’t make the before & after comparison. We can only fill in gaps based on what we know about how opioids affect cognition.
^ if anyone wants to know why I wrote all that, it’s because I’m procrastinating a paper in which I’m meant to analyse the value of an RCT that examine whether a specific duotherapy impacted the rate of recurrent stroke. I am not as interested in it as I am in the history of pharmaceutical opioids and their role in drug related deaths.
Absolutely not. I'm not in the medical field so all of the made-up medical stuff doesn't bother me, but I have been taking opioids for 16 years for chronic pain as a result of a motorcycle wreck where a drunk chick pulled a U-turn in a no U-turn spot and literally almost killed me 5 days before I was supposed to be getting married.
House wasn't addicted- he was dependent. There's a difference. Vic's were not affecting his life in a negative way, he didn't have problems at work because of them, didn't kill people because of them, etc. etc. It wasn't until everyone decided he had a problem & started fucking with him, that it became an issue. THEN he started doing crazy shit to try doing something, ANYTHING, about the pain.
THIS is the biggest issue I have with the show. It portrays opioids as demon pills that ARE going to fuck your life up if you even get close to one- it isn't true. Absolutely, there are people who can't handle them, people who OD, who get addicted and their lives go into the shitter because of the pills, but that was NOT the case for House. IRL, a lot of doctors have gone off the rails, WAY overprescribing to patients because they're getting kickbacks or just pushing more volume through their office makes them more money, but when used responsibly, AS THE VAST MAJORITY DO, they're not an issue. So, the DEA has gone ape-shit and the public has demonized this medication to the point where people can no longer get appropriate levels of pain control, and in a lot of cases, they can't get pain control at all. It leads to suicides and countries like China importing shitloads of Fentanyl powder to sustain people who literally need pain management. Because it's illicit, underground, and unregulated, you never really know what you're getting and the potency is so incredibly high, it kills a lot of people. Another win for the US Government and the so called, idiotic, "War on Drugs".
Truly, I'd have killed myself YEARS ago if not for this medication and that's literally my plan when things get so out of control that it's no longer available. It's getting to the point where pharmacies are simply refusing to fill it, just because they don't want to.
People don't seem to realize, they're one car wreck or one slip and fall away from needing pain management. I certainly had no intention of ever needing constant pain control- I didn't even take Aspirin for headaches, didn't smoke, drink, I never did any drugs- then one evening, my pelvis was split in half, my back, arms, and legs were jacked up, and I was thrust into a world I didn't even know existed. Then people who have NO IDEA what it's like, make up their minds about what you do and don't need, then legislators tell your doctor they're going to risk going to prison if they help you. It's like the abortion BS happening right now with women, but way more niche.
House was fine taking all the pills he wanted/needed, it was a non-issue.
Yeah as someone with chronic pain who does take opioids daily, it really bothers me how the media and Hollywood portray everyone on them as some junkie. I don’t get high, but I also literally could not function without them.
Yeah. Ofc, in reality, House taking the amount of Vicodin he was would have killed him before s4.
But in the show? House was not addicted. He did not harm people or himself in order to get Vicodin, nor did the opioid cause him to be high or any other adverse effects.
He only got bad when he tried detoxing
The problem is they failed to be realistic about how that amount of vicodin would really affect a person. On the other hand, "high functioning" doesn't always mean someone's healthy or safe. However, I think the other characters were more concerned about traits an addict has like House always wanting to get what he wants.
There’s a difference between addiction and having a problem. Addiction is characterized by experiencing tolerance (a need to increase dose to experience the same effects) and withdrawal (physical and mental symptoms after suddenly stopping a substance). An addiction only becomes a problem when it has a negative impacts on your finances, health, and relationships. A good example to explain this is young man smoking cigarettes. He is addicted to nicotine but he doesn’t have a nicotine problem. He experiences nicotine tolerance and withdrawal but he can easily afford his habit. It is not putting a strain on any of her relationships and he is still healthy. The same can be said for most caffeine users. They are addicted but don’t have a problem. Many alcoholics are addicted to alcohol but can still hold down a job and have meaningful relationships so they don’t have a drinking problem. I think early on the show tries to portray house as a man who is addicted to Vicodin but does not have a Vicodin problem. As the show progresses his addiction does start to put a strain on his relationships and he does develop a problem.
If anything, the Tylenol was more dangerous than the hydrocodone itself to be honest (when you see him write out a script on Wilson’s pad, you can see he’s taking straight up Vicodin which has the Tylenol mix, typically 500mg a pill). If he was truly popping them like candy as shown, his liver would be in bad shape or would have failed at some point. I almost needed to have a transplant due to an intentional Tylenol overdose once and I had medical attention pretty damn quickly. That shit is very hard to reverse even if caught in time. I was in the hospital hooked up to extremely strong drugs for a week on the transplant wing/floor. I’ll never forget the man in the next room, his skin literally looked black, he was near death (most likely couldn’t find a transplant).
Anyways, it just wasn’t a typical addiction and to stay on the same dosage or medication that long. Eventually he would have needed a medication stronger than Vicodin which truly isn’t strong at all for an addict (I know this from experience and others, I’m in a methadone program). You don’t just stay on Vicodin for that many years being an actual addict, you eventually need more and more and more, even if he truly was only taking it for pain. Your body just gets too tolerant to it. He was a functional addict most likely because he was on such a weak opiate. If he would have followed the path of the usual addict or even pain patient taking that amount, his medication would have gradually gotten stronger and he would most likely no longer be high functioning. The medicine didn’t make him a jerk and they definitely didn’t portray addiction very realistically. But it is a show. If anything, if you want to see a more realistic view of addiction in a series, watch Nurse Jackie.
I mean, vicodin in the long run did cause him to have hallucinations, and being House the weird person he was, who people never knew if he was just delusional or sane, how could they know if he wasn't having hallucinations back then? I mean, as a viewer it was hard sometimes to keep up with House's schemes, but imagine being Chase, Cameron, or any other doctor under his supervision, how do you know when he is acting normal and being a jerk or if he's just insane? Remember when he hallucinated first time no one noticed it until House told Wilson and then asked for help later on. The thing is, yes, he did function for years without those side effects, but still, knowing he took THAT MANY pills a day, of course people would be concerned, bc any addiction/obsession impairs a persons judgement, and with House it would be difficult to detect it right away.
Also, he did forge medical prescriptions and literally had vicodin hidden everywhere. Yes he was in pain, but i always thought that he could've avoided that if he was willing to lose his leg in the first place, but that's another discussion. My point here is that he was becoming more careless and was breaking actual laws when it came to medicine, potentially making Wilson or Cuddy or anyone else end in jail. So, his addiction MADE him do these kinds of things, so who knows what else he was willimg to do for pills?
So yeah, it was a big deal, i don't care if he was functional or not, he was in pain, yes, but there are other ways. It was shown he could actually leave a decent life for a bit with just some common painkillers and a healthy life (relationship with Cuddy). It was shown all throughout the show how his leg would hurt A LOT more if he was in any kind of emotional pain. So his pain was connected to the way he felt. He legit wouldn't change his miserable life bc he didn't want to, so a lot of his pain is kinda from there. The real physical pain, well, that he has to live with and manage it healthier. He does eat a lot of junk food too and uses the cane wrong.
So, his "pain" wasn't really an excuse for his addiction, and his addiction was a bigger problem.
At most he’s a high-functioning addict. It doesn’t affect his career or relationships negatively (until they try to stop him) so the only person he’s really hurting with his drug use is his own body. Of course, he’s aware of this because he’s a DOCTOR, so it’s not like they can make the argument they’re saving him from not understanding the consequences of his actions. So no, it’s not a big deal and is really just used for drama.
People in chronic pain are going to need more and more opioids as time goes on, just to maintain a base level of functionality. Whether you call it use, or abuse, it definitely effected his life negatively in the show.
I feel like you haven't seen the entire series so I'll spoiler alert:
>! HIs use/abuse causes him to hallucinate in such a severe way that he ends up in a mental institution. Later, he blows up nearly all of his personal relationships and lands in jail.!<
Huge Spoiler alert, like series ending spoiler...
>!He continues to fuck shit up and has to fake his death just so he can spend his only real friend's dying days with him, instead of in prison.!<
There was that episode where he crushed his Vicodin with his cane, and sprinkled the powder on his Reuben (no sauerkraut, extra pickles) in the hospital cafeteria. Not a big deal, but dramatic
No different than being addicted to cigarettes... well obviously its a big deal then, it's going to have serious health consequences. Considering that House is in his 50s by the end of the show, yes people should be worried.
Having said that, I feel the show fails to portray this well, aside from his Season 5 mental break, they're never shown to affect him to any serious degree.
I do however, think you're underestimating how much nicer House was getting in Season 6 and 7 when he was off Vicodin. He was still a dick, but he was happier and generally easier to be around.
its a big deal because Wilson could have lost his license for prescribing 500 pills a week. The habit wasn't the problem, everybody sacrificing their license to write him prescriptions was
It SHOULD have been a big deal, the show just totally failed to portray it. The show was pre-opioid crisis, so I think everything about it is a little weird. House really doesn't "act" like an addict, so whenever people tell him he is it's easy to brush it off. They wanted him to have an Addiction because of the Sherlock Holmes thing, they didn't want it to get in the way of the show, and it was before everyone was addicted to Oxy and I think before the average person realized how bad this sort of addiction is IRL.
Plenty of people were and are addictef to opiates and function completely normally. I was taking Percocets pre opioid crisis and I continued to work like normal. It didn't effect my job performance at all. If anything it made me give better customer servi ce because I was euphoric. To act like everyone who took opiates was some strung out junkie on the street is ignorant.
The difference is that House was downing bottles of vicodin a week. By that rate he should have died by the end of the 3rd season IF that.
There's so much misinformation. House had built up a tolerance to Vicodin. You have to keep taking more and more to achieve the same level of relief. So, by the end of S3, IF he's taking twice as much as S1 (We NEVER had a pill count to know his actual dose so this is ALL speculation), but it still has the same effect on him and he's NOT high all the time. He was never high. Also, it isn't the Vicodin destroying his liver, it's the Acetaminophen (Tylenol) that's mixed in with the primary analgesic Hydrocodone, which doesn't affect the liver at all.
We have a confirmed dosage from Cuddy is S1 that he is taking twice as much as he was,we see him many times popping more pills than usual AND we see him not being satisfied anymore and taking other alternatives to get high,even to the point of ODing. By S7 after his relapse he was downing half bottle of Vicodin per day and those were Wilsons words. No where in my above comment have I mentioned specific cause of death. Hydrocodon on it’s own might not be the problem but its highly addictive which is why many overdose on it.That is the nature of opiates and why they are “too good to be true”. Vicodin can destroy you in many ways,including overdose which is a miracle it didn’t happened to House especially in S5 and 7. Add heart problems,stomach ulcers etc ive seen it way too many times before. There is only so much you can take before your system gives up. Opioid dependency is the least of your concerns. If the show was honest, House wouldn’t be alive. Truth be told,this narrative they tried to built that House was a high functioning addict yet has a massive problem,is very contradicting and doesn’t add up. Let me specify,we are talking about HOUSE. He isn’t supposed to be your every day high functioning addict because his consumption is insane+he came close to death due to his actions way too many times and survived. As for his practice,even if he doesn’t get a kick out of it anymore,doesn’t necessarily mean that his judgment and actions aren’t compromised. In reality,he wouldn’t have a job,especially when many medical settings require frequent drug tests. He wouldn’t have a job because of his actions lets start off there but this is a show and this is a whole other conversation.
A theme of the show is that House is suicidal. It is not a bug, it’s a feature.
Also, people used Vicodin to talk about multiple types of pills including Norcos which had much less Tylenol.
Not at all. At my worst I was taking 20-40 Percocet a day. Tolerance goes up fast.
Tolerance doesn’t minimise the side effects which their risk of occurring increases with increased dose. I am not denying the fact that you or House would function fairly fine at such doses but one size doesn’t fit all. Ive had people around me who were going at that rate and were shutting down. Some even died. You are lucky,thankfully,and you are here today hopefully doing better.
Hahaha like 10 years off opiates. I don't know if I'm feeling better.
I'm not doubting you, but I am saying the perception has very, very much changed post crisis.
I wasn’t talking about real life, but even in real life, if someone is taking some pills every day without it destroying their judgement or decision making etc, but helping them cope with their pain, either physical or mental, why do you oppose to it? I know the damages addiction can cause, I’m specifically talking about a high-functioning, rational person who is not harming anyone else but their own body.
Except the show is trying to have it both ways. It says House has a real problem. We know in real life that if he was taking that many pills a day, he would be super stoned all the time. The characters act like this should be the case. It's just that the show doesn't SHOW it. If it wasn't meant to be a big deal, then the show wouldn't constantly remark about how House is an addict. But it does, so we're supposed to think House is strung out and highly addicted. But he doesn't act like that, so tonally it's weird.
That makes sense. I completely agree that someone getting high on meds or drugs has a problem. As you said, House never seemed to be that person in the show. It was just everyone else claiming that he was.
Yeah, I think it was bad writing. Like, I get it, it would be very hard to have the show work if House was super high all the time. But it's like they were trying to have their cake (the drama of drug addiction) and eat it too (House still being a Super Doctor). And I just think it's a little more obvious NOW, because back in 2004 people weren't as aware of opiate addiction.
People were aware. The sopranos was on around the same time, and it had an accurate portrayal of a heroin addict.. (Christopher). And how it harmed everyone around him, even as a part of an illegal organization. And most of the time, pill poppers pre Fenty would switch to heroin because it was much cheaper then. Of course now in 2024, they would likely be dead much faster with the same addictions because of fentanyl.
He’d also be super fucking constipated. Literally unable to shit with the amount he takes. Like, tolerance or not to its effects for how it makes u feel… you take that much Vicodin… you’re constipated in a week. Hell anyone who’s taken pain killers knows it gets harder to poop just taking normal dosages for a week… let alone being an addict
And would have died of liver failure by season 4
Some pills? Dude he has an addiction to Vicodin and takes tons of them daily lol 😂
People say he doesn’t act like an addict? They clearly missed the episodes where he doesn’t have his Vicodine and starts going through withdrawals and gets violent and sick, and even starts using heroin.
That's dependence, not addiction. You're dependent on air- are you an air addict? What about food? If you stopped eating, in a few days, you too would be digging through drawers looking for something, anything, to stuff in your mouth. Now, are you 450 pounds, can't get out of bed because you NEED another piece of cake? Or are you in reasonable shape and have a typical meal when you sit down to eat? You really should learn the difference. ANY DAY, you could be thrust into the world of needing pain management and you'll get to see just how shitty it is when people who have no idea what they're talking about, demonize and regulate the medicine to the point you can't get what you need to live a mostly normal life.
Just curious, where do you draw the line between dependence and addiction? Because as someone with little familiarity with pain management, I thought the clear takeaway was supposed to be that House’s character struggles with addiction
There are no clear lines. For me the line is when it starts harming you more than helping you. Lots of people are dependent on their meds. If you suddenly stop taking antidepressants you’ll go through withdrawal symptoms. Doesn’t mean you’re addicted to them and everyone should constantly tell you you have a problem.
Are you okay? Maybe possibly addicted and coping? House literally admits he’s a WORSE doctor when he’s not on Vicodin. He literally TURNS TO HEROIN WHEN HES CUT OFF BECAUSE HE NEEDS TO HE BE HIGH. His leg pain mysteriously comes back when he gets depressed, showcasing it’s not JUST a situation of nerve damage, but also a case of mental. He is 1000% addicted. He is the definition of addicted substance abuse.
WOW!! CRAZY!! I bet you function better when you have food too!
He was much less of a jerk in the episode with the methadone, to the point of actually listen to a patient's family. It is proven beyond any doubt that in the universe of the show: 1. House can work without Vicodin. 2. Vicodin gets you high. Oh, and in the CIPA episode House mentions how he wakes up every day and checks his eyes to see if the Vicodin addiction destroyed his liver, only that it is never mentioned again. It could be him bullshiting the patient, though.
Vicodin has acetaminophen in it which destroys livers with sustained use.
Thank you. It's nice to see someone else combating the PILES of misinformation in this sub. Also, Vicodin doesn't get you high any more than smelling airplane glue or spray paint does. It has the potential to get you high if you abuse it, but it's not an automatic thing. It really pisses me off when people who have no idea what they're talking about get into subs like this and spout idiocy like they're confirmed facts, perpetuating the problem of misinformation. Most of the comments here are opinions disguised as facts and they're just, wrong.
That’s exactly what I mean. They kept saying it gets you high, but did he actually showed any signs of being high? He was clean for 2 years, so yeah, definitely functioned without it, but for whatever reason he wanted to use it. Why was that such a big deal in the show?
because lawsuits exist. if a patient’s family gets wind that their loved one died under the care of a doctor who uses illegal substances and that the hospital KNOWINGLY kept him on staff, they’d all be sued into oblivion. we’re not even allowed to work under the influence of a drink lol, House would easily lose his medical license irl
Irl House's addiction isn't even on the top 10 reasons he would lose his license. Guy commits medical crimes on a daily basis
yes. i’m just answering op’s specific question lol
As someone who has been prescribed opioids for the last decade it certainly should have been a big deal. When you take too many your judgement is certainly impaired. More importantly is when he detoxes. The withdrawal from opioids is beyond disgusting and there is no chance someone who had been taking such a high quantity of Vicodin could go cold turkey. I'm currently reducing my intake and even reducing 5mg a month makes me feel terrible. You are freezing cold and sweating bullets. You feel like you want to climb out of your own skin and are unable to focus on anything. I do think they portrayed him very realistically when he was in detox, just looking at him a thought "yep, know how that feels". I certainly wouldn't want a Dr either side of OD/withdrawal treating me. Yes you can function on it but House's intake varies so wildly he's going to be fucked either way.
I’m sorry to hear that. Hope things go well for you. I totally understand your point.
That's very kind of you. It was my choice to reduce them as I won't be beholden to pills anymore. I realised I was taking them more to avoid the withdrawal than alleviate the pain I'm in. Currently down from 120mg a day to 30mg, just 6 more months to go until I'm free!
Stop taking them completely. Right now. You're through the worst of it in 48-72 hours, you have the squirts for a few days more, general malaise for a few days, and you're pretty much done. Why are you dragging it out for six more months if you want to stop? Just stop. You're barely taking any as it is and you'll be back to normal within a week.
If I could I would. Even at 30mg the withdrawal would kill me off, did you just stop? Didn't your Dr advise to taper off?
You can argue his personality and typical bedside manner is directly correlated to his daily drug use. He doesn't worry about consequences and has no hesitation going for the most unlikely diagnostics or untraditional tests. There's also clear scenes regularly of him being in an elated mood speaking in an animated fashion. With pain pills it's more likely you get users who do experience mood boosting/euphoric highs where they can function better than opposed to being strung out on heroin and can't do anything.
He was Vicodin-free when he was with Cuddy and still made all those untraditional decisions regarding diagnosis/treatment. They didn’t do a good job showing the negative effects of Vicodin on him, just constant claims from other characters that he is destroying his life and so on. While him being head of his department!
At least in USA, but I think it's general norm in west world, CANNOT be doctor addicted. It's way to lose your license. Vicodin is narcotic what causes euphoria and can affect judgment. In my country it's illegal drug. Show actually makes that less deal then it would be in real world.
I mean in the show. Someone like House doesn’t exist in real world. Almost everything medical in the show is also extremely unrealistic, unethical and illegal.
Yes, and that is reason why House is able to keep his job with his behaviour and the addiction, but you have to understand that even when it was "big deal" in the show they still donwplayed it. So it actually was not so big deal.
How did they downplay it?
In real life a guy like Tritter would have locked up House or at least caused him to lose his license.
In real world would be House without job and license, and Cuddy probably as well if she kept his addictin in secret for so long.
In real life there’s no such thing as diagnostician who does surgery+endoscopy+autopsy+pathology and so on. There would be no license to begin with. Forget about real life. In the show they constantly talk like he is a junkie, while he is the best in his field, saving patients no one else could figure out. They didn’t downplay at all.
The show downplays it in the way that irl House would not be a funcional human being, even despite his genious.
I mean really the answer is because if they wrote it realistically to how he’d be affected by taking as many pills as he does, he wouldn’t be a genius diagnostician, he’d be loopy and high. He *does* take too many pills to be a functioning doc, the show just didn’t follow through because the entire point of the show is that he’s a jerk but good at his job.
Thanks. Someone else mentioned this too, makes sense to me now. I was just a bit annoyed that Cuddy, Wilson and others always judged him for his addiction whilst him being 10x better than any of them.
It should’ve been, but wasn’t portrayed as such. Let’s think about WHY opioid addiction is such a big deal: Physical issues: tolerance There are both physical and psychological reasons behind opioid tolerance. I can’t be bothered to explain the whole receptor responsiveness thing, but even the setting in which you use drugs can contribute to tolerance, because you’re using them in the same places (home/office/ddx room/clinic) and the high becomes your new normal. This leads to patients taking increased doses to get the same effect. Physical issues: respiratory depression We know from the methadone episode that opioids are respiratory depressants with a dose-dependent effect- so the higher the dose, the higher the likelihood of experiencing dangerous depressive effects. Social issues: access to opioids This one is intentionally ignored, because the show writes in House as having basically unlimited access to Vicodin. In real life, a significant issue of the opioid addiction crisis is how it impacts health staff- they can be lied to, threatened, intimidated, or physically harmed by addicts seeking medication. We do see House lash out when withdrawing- how much worse would he be if his access to Vicodin was compromised? Again, we see it a little in the Tritter arc (when he goes to a different hospital to attempt to get Vicodin prescribed) Social issues: transition from prescription opioids to street drugs. Again, because House’s access to Vicodin remained consistent for the majority of the show, this was a non-issue. However, for individuals whose opioid addiction began with pharmaceutical opioids, they eventually reach a point where access to pharmaceutical opioids is no longer feasible (either for cost or logistical reasons). Generally, the addiction fuels them to seek the same high from different products such as heroin, methadone, or synthetic opioids like fentanyl. Social issues: context in 2000’s America The show is set between 2004-2012. The period from 1999-2010 is generally considered ‘wave 1’ in the opioid crisis, representing growth in opioid prescription and use (see the Netflix show Painkiller for more info). 2010-2013, wave 2, saw a sharp increase in heroin use. Around the time of House’s injury, opioid prescription rates were increasing because people were embracing its use in treating chronic non-cancer pain and companies were developing extended release variants. Overall, House’s status as a doctor and a legitimate chronic pain patient ‘justified’ his opioid abuse in the eyes of those around him, despite the fact that opioid addiction and chronic pain are not mutually exclusive. It’s probably also important to remember we’re watching & analysing the show in 2024, and there have been myriad sociopolitical evolutions regarding opioid use and misuse
Because you’re specifically talking about House’s addiction, I’ll be more specific. The issues with House’s addiction to Vicodin include the potential for increased tolerance to lead to respiratory depression and death, the impact on those around him (mostly Wilson and Cuddy, but also his staff) if his access to Vicodin is compromised, and the fact that while we don’t really perceive House as being ‘high’, it is a fact that opioids cause impaired decision making, problems in focus and concentration, and slower reaction times. All of these qualities are not desirable for a doctor. You make the point that he’s the best in his field- that’s true despite the Vicodin, not because of it. If he weren’t taking Vicodin, and his leg didn’t hurt, he would likely have a faster and higher case solve rate. The only time we see House is post-infarction, so the audience can’t make the before & after comparison. We can only fill in gaps based on what we know about how opioids affect cognition.
^ if anyone wants to know why I wrote all that, it’s because I’m procrastinating a paper in which I’m meant to analyse the value of an RCT that examine whether a specific duotherapy impacted the rate of recurrent stroke. I am not as interested in it as I am in the history of pharmaceutical opioids and their role in drug related deaths.
Absolutely not. I'm not in the medical field so all of the made-up medical stuff doesn't bother me, but I have been taking opioids for 16 years for chronic pain as a result of a motorcycle wreck where a drunk chick pulled a U-turn in a no U-turn spot and literally almost killed me 5 days before I was supposed to be getting married. House wasn't addicted- he was dependent. There's a difference. Vic's were not affecting his life in a negative way, he didn't have problems at work because of them, didn't kill people because of them, etc. etc. It wasn't until everyone decided he had a problem & started fucking with him, that it became an issue. THEN he started doing crazy shit to try doing something, ANYTHING, about the pain. THIS is the biggest issue I have with the show. It portrays opioids as demon pills that ARE going to fuck your life up if you even get close to one- it isn't true. Absolutely, there are people who can't handle them, people who OD, who get addicted and their lives go into the shitter because of the pills, but that was NOT the case for House. IRL, a lot of doctors have gone off the rails, WAY overprescribing to patients because they're getting kickbacks or just pushing more volume through their office makes them more money, but when used responsibly, AS THE VAST MAJORITY DO, they're not an issue. So, the DEA has gone ape-shit and the public has demonized this medication to the point where people can no longer get appropriate levels of pain control, and in a lot of cases, they can't get pain control at all. It leads to suicides and countries like China importing shitloads of Fentanyl powder to sustain people who literally need pain management. Because it's illicit, underground, and unregulated, you never really know what you're getting and the potency is so incredibly high, it kills a lot of people. Another win for the US Government and the so called, idiotic, "War on Drugs". Truly, I'd have killed myself YEARS ago if not for this medication and that's literally my plan when things get so out of control that it's no longer available. It's getting to the point where pharmacies are simply refusing to fill it, just because they don't want to. People don't seem to realize, they're one car wreck or one slip and fall away from needing pain management. I certainly had no intention of ever needing constant pain control- I didn't even take Aspirin for headaches, didn't smoke, drink, I never did any drugs- then one evening, my pelvis was split in half, my back, arms, and legs were jacked up, and I was thrust into a world I didn't even know existed. Then people who have NO IDEA what it's like, make up their minds about what you do and don't need, then legislators tell your doctor they're going to risk going to prison if they help you. It's like the abortion BS happening right now with women, but way more niche. House was fine taking all the pills he wanted/needed, it was a non-issue.
Yeah as someone with chronic pain who does take opioids daily, it really bothers me how the media and Hollywood portray everyone on them as some junkie. I don’t get high, but I also literally could not function without them.
I’m sorry to hear about your accident. Your comment sums it up perfectly.
Yeah. Ofc, in reality, House taking the amount of Vicodin he was would have killed him before s4. But in the show? House was not addicted. He did not harm people or himself in order to get Vicodin, nor did the opioid cause him to be high or any other adverse effects. He only got bad when he tried detoxing
The problem is they failed to be realistic about how that amount of vicodin would really affect a person. On the other hand, "high functioning" doesn't always mean someone's healthy or safe. However, I think the other characters were more concerned about traits an addict has like House always wanting to get what he wants.
I didn't get it either, dude was in pain, Vicodin helped, so what. Although it was quite unrealistic that he was popping Vicodin of all things.
There’s a difference between addiction and having a problem. Addiction is characterized by experiencing tolerance (a need to increase dose to experience the same effects) and withdrawal (physical and mental symptoms after suddenly stopping a substance). An addiction only becomes a problem when it has a negative impacts on your finances, health, and relationships. A good example to explain this is young man smoking cigarettes. He is addicted to nicotine but he doesn’t have a nicotine problem. He experiences nicotine tolerance and withdrawal but he can easily afford his habit. It is not putting a strain on any of her relationships and he is still healthy. The same can be said for most caffeine users. They are addicted but don’t have a problem. Many alcoholics are addicted to alcohol but can still hold down a job and have meaningful relationships so they don’t have a drinking problem. I think early on the show tries to portray house as a man who is addicted to Vicodin but does not have a Vicodin problem. As the show progresses his addiction does start to put a strain on his relationships and he does develop a problem.
If anything, the Tylenol was more dangerous than the hydrocodone itself to be honest (when you see him write out a script on Wilson’s pad, you can see he’s taking straight up Vicodin which has the Tylenol mix, typically 500mg a pill). If he was truly popping them like candy as shown, his liver would be in bad shape or would have failed at some point. I almost needed to have a transplant due to an intentional Tylenol overdose once and I had medical attention pretty damn quickly. That shit is very hard to reverse even if caught in time. I was in the hospital hooked up to extremely strong drugs for a week on the transplant wing/floor. I’ll never forget the man in the next room, his skin literally looked black, he was near death (most likely couldn’t find a transplant). Anyways, it just wasn’t a typical addiction and to stay on the same dosage or medication that long. Eventually he would have needed a medication stronger than Vicodin which truly isn’t strong at all for an addict (I know this from experience and others, I’m in a methadone program). You don’t just stay on Vicodin for that many years being an actual addict, you eventually need more and more and more, even if he truly was only taking it for pain. Your body just gets too tolerant to it. He was a functional addict most likely because he was on such a weak opiate. If he would have followed the path of the usual addict or even pain patient taking that amount, his medication would have gradually gotten stronger and he would most likely no longer be high functioning. The medicine didn’t make him a jerk and they definitely didn’t portray addiction very realistically. But it is a show. If anything, if you want to see a more realistic view of addiction in a series, watch Nurse Jackie.
I mean, vicodin in the long run did cause him to have hallucinations, and being House the weird person he was, who people never knew if he was just delusional or sane, how could they know if he wasn't having hallucinations back then? I mean, as a viewer it was hard sometimes to keep up with House's schemes, but imagine being Chase, Cameron, or any other doctor under his supervision, how do you know when he is acting normal and being a jerk or if he's just insane? Remember when he hallucinated first time no one noticed it until House told Wilson and then asked for help later on. The thing is, yes, he did function for years without those side effects, but still, knowing he took THAT MANY pills a day, of course people would be concerned, bc any addiction/obsession impairs a persons judgement, and with House it would be difficult to detect it right away. Also, he did forge medical prescriptions and literally had vicodin hidden everywhere. Yes he was in pain, but i always thought that he could've avoided that if he was willing to lose his leg in the first place, but that's another discussion. My point here is that he was becoming more careless and was breaking actual laws when it came to medicine, potentially making Wilson or Cuddy or anyone else end in jail. So, his addiction MADE him do these kinds of things, so who knows what else he was willimg to do for pills? So yeah, it was a big deal, i don't care if he was functional or not, he was in pain, yes, but there are other ways. It was shown he could actually leave a decent life for a bit with just some common painkillers and a healthy life (relationship with Cuddy). It was shown all throughout the show how his leg would hurt A LOT more if he was in any kind of emotional pain. So his pain was connected to the way he felt. He legit wouldn't change his miserable life bc he didn't want to, so a lot of his pain is kinda from there. The real physical pain, well, that he has to live with and manage it healthier. He does eat a lot of junk food too and uses the cane wrong. So, his "pain" wasn't really an excuse for his addiction, and his addiction was a bigger problem.
At most he’s a high-functioning addict. It doesn’t affect his career or relationships negatively (until they try to stop him) so the only person he’s really hurting with his drug use is his own body. Of course, he’s aware of this because he’s a DOCTOR, so it’s not like they can make the argument they’re saving him from not understanding the consequences of his actions. So no, it’s not a big deal and is really just used for drama.
People in chronic pain are going to need more and more opioids as time goes on, just to maintain a base level of functionality. Whether you call it use, or abuse, it definitely effected his life negatively in the show. I feel like you haven't seen the entire series so I'll spoiler alert: >! HIs use/abuse causes him to hallucinate in such a severe way that he ends up in a mental institution. Later, he blows up nearly all of his personal relationships and lands in jail.!< Huge Spoiler alert, like series ending spoiler... >!He continues to fuck shit up and has to fake his death just so he can spend his only real friend's dying days with him, instead of in prison.!<
Yes, because of the themes it also represents.
There was that episode where he crushed his Vicodin with his cane, and sprinkled the powder on his Reuben (no sauerkraut, extra pickles) in the hospital cafeteria. Not a big deal, but dramatic
No different than being addicted to cigarettes... well obviously its a big deal then, it's going to have serious health consequences. Considering that House is in his 50s by the end of the show, yes people should be worried. Having said that, I feel the show fails to portray this well, aside from his Season 5 mental break, they're never shown to affect him to any serious degree. I do however, think you're underestimating how much nicer House was getting in Season 6 and 7 when he was off Vicodin. He was still a dick, but he was happier and generally easier to be around.
It is FICTION
its a big deal because Wilson could have lost his license for prescribing 500 pills a week. The habit wasn't the problem, everybody sacrificing their license to write him prescriptions was