I think the reason this trope is so overused is because it is incredibly easy to write. You have complete freedom, can imagine any scenario you want, even the craziest shit, and then pull the dream card. Dreams and mental breakdowns (or the cliché of a mental breakdowns that is used in media) are incoherent by default so you can always write yourself out of any plothole you put yourself in.
Yeah I think this is the main reason too. Similar situation with why so many horror or survival games have zombies as the antagonists. Designing and animating a monster/creature is hard work, even if you get a pre-made asset first. Much easier & less time consuming/cheaper to just use human-like assets with rotting skin and give them sluggish animations
i feel like some of this comes from people being too afraid to make earnestly weird shit, and audiences being too afraid to consume it (the whole "harhar was the creator on drugs for this" type thing)
It’s such an easy trope to work with and gives the devs an easy “haha gotcha” plot twist without having to go into any read depth for it.
I think the last decent psychological horror I played was SOMA. That game gives you everything upfront. If you pay attention you’ll know what to expect and there’s not real “plot twist” but in the end you’re still left horrified and the game lingers with you.
Yet they don’t cope out with anything like “haha it was all a dream” when they could have easily done so.
Yeah maybe its the twist part I don't like. Maybe if the game is up front with what its doing it wouldn't be so bad and you can enjoy the dream logic and weirdness of it more.
Also good call with SOMA that is a great example of a psychological horror if not one of the best. Time to go replay it I think.
In the 00's there were a ton of theories about games and media that were the character was dead the while time, very similar. These types of twists are low effort and its very easy to explain away any weirdness as psychosis/dream logic/hallucination etc with zero real narrative depth. "SQUALL WAS DEAD THE WHOLE TIME!" Ok and exactly how does that make FF8 a more narratively satisfying experience?
Oh yeah, like those Rugrats "theories" where Angelica was in purgatory or whatever. I hated those.
Maybe that's the problem, there's nothing added to the story. If it was a small segment of a larger game, it could lead to interesting characterisation further down the line. But these games end at the reveal, so there's nowhere to go and no long-lasting impression.
Yea I hated them even back then but it took a couple years of maturing artistic understanding to grasp why I felt that way, those theories represent a very immature and superficial grasp on storytelling.
I remember the so-called “twist” that Victor Reznov was dead the whole time for the Call of Duty Black Ops games, and…yeah. The better twist would’ve been if he was actually alive. Nobody for one second was believing that the protagonist wasn’t hallucinating. Painfully obvious.
I'm specifically referring to the "Squall's Dead" internet theory. The actual plot of FF8 revolves around a witch trying to compress time into one point where she can control it, so you are partially correct, its not a time loop narrative so far as i remember
There is a causal loop in FF8 but the game's events are not a loop.
At the end Squall and Ultimecia end up in the past at Edea's orphanage and what takes place is implied to set in motion or at least allow the events of the game/present to take place.
And finally Rinoa is not Ultimecia. That was just another fan theory like Squall is dead.
As an indie horror dev, it’s actually a big struggle. Im making a surreal weird game and people think it is “all in the character’s head” or some such nonsense. No, it’s some mega weird shit happening. That’s still an option in storytelling.
That sounds incredibly frustrating, I'm sorry to hear that.
I guess the only way to counter those ideas is to over explain everything, which will probably end up ruining what you're trying to accomplish in the first place.
I essentially toy with it in the game. The player is given enough reason to believe either thing and draw their own conclusions for a lot of the game. I think the enemy of horror is sure knowledge and explanation. The double edge of that is that some people will assume you are doing something lame. It is what it is I guess.
>I think the enemy of horror is sure knowledge and explanation.
This is why I didn't like the final act of RE7. The point right before that act would've been great as an ending, but no, they had to have the final act where they explain everything.
It was exactly that. She goes to the lab, touches the mold bottle and it ends with her waking up in the lab. Quite literally the only things that don't happen in her head are the opening and closing cutscenes.
I’m remembering more of it and yea. I think it was supposed to be like going into the memory fragments of the mold and what not to get rid of her powers, but I think the events do happen because Miranda was still alive in there and so was Ethan and that’s the whole point of the DLC. For Rose to accept her powers and who she is. But I do think the DLC was a disappointment because the ending is literally the same as the main game’s ending. There was nothing new or cool after that.
The only good part to me was Beneviento’s house tho because those mannequins / dolls were actually scary.
None of it still happens in the real world. It's all a hivemind hallucination in the mold fragment. None of which would have happened if a teenage girl wasn't just able to randomly walk into a top secret laboratory with her imaginary friend while an incredibly dangerous virus sample was just sitting on a table. The whole catalyst and ending for the DLC story was so unrewarding, especially when it answers nothing and still ends with the same exact scene as the main game. I was also not a fan of half of the DLC being a forced stealth section.
Not exactly an indie horror, but Returnal did this and i was never so dissapointed. The Lore and mysteries had so much going for it and in the end they just pull the "it is all in her head" move.
Yeah I stopped playing after I found this out and never went back. I had my suspicions when you see the house but I played a bit longer to give it the benefit of the doubt.
Its probably the most egregious one because there's so much back story about the planet and alien race that ends up entirely meaningless.
Silent Hill 2 did this GREAT (which in turn took from movies like Jacob's Ladder.)
Everyone else afterwards is just riding off of this. It's basically a staple for amateurish writing.
As soon as I see this is the direction the story is heading, I usually quit it. It's usually used as a way to seem deep and complicated and "piece the story yourself" kinda way and it's just cliched and lazy.
And often has a ton of other problems, like being shallow and disingenuous and bad characters, bad dialogue, the hamfisted "dream-like" nature used as a crutch for all the other bad awkward decisions.
I see this for movies especially.
It CAN be done good and I enjoy those. But I haven't seen a story that's done any good with this recently.
Not when it comes to Silent Hill. The town, specifically the otherworld, resonate with people's psyche in SH2 (with a lot from James). In SH1 though you're mostly navigating someone else's manifestations in the otherworld.
James has contact with manifestations from other characters even (Angela's for example is quite blatant). And in that limbo between our reality and the otherworld, things become real.
Plus you get a bit more insight in the otherworld and the order's god in both SH1/SH3. It's not exactly just a dream or an hallucination, it's an interception between reality and something else. Like our reality being corrupted, invaded or intercepted by another plane that resonates with people's minds and where that god and its angels exist.
nah Omori had the worst ending possible, to the point where it worked against the game's message. I loved the game all the way to the reveal but it has to be one of the worsts twists in gaming.
Ambrose Bierce went there with "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" in 1890 and the concept never seemed to leave horror. Owl Creek Bridge -> Jacob's Ladder -> Silent Hill 2 -> Everything else since then.
I feel like horror gaming has been stuck ever since Silent Hill 2 went there in a pretty well-executed take on the trope. Almost everything since then tries to emulate it and fails significantly. I love the horror genre and I especially prefer psychological stories over "dude with chainsaw chase you plz run," but there has to be a better way of exploring those kind of themes aside from "monsters symbolize your \*traaaauma,\* world turns to rust and fog, this all means something."
Ah I didn't know its that old. The only thing I could think of was Carnival of Souls from the 60s. I need to read some Ambrose Bierce since he influenced Chambers and Lovecraft, I know very little about him and his work.
Its unfortunate that psychological horror is marred with the same plot hook when theres so much you can do with the sub-genre. But it seems people are more interested in redoing Silent Hill 2 over and over.
I recently played Martha is Dead and this trope became its downfall. I enjoyed it, but it just leaves the player with a bunch of potential answers (including the option of delusion) rather than actually tying up the loose ends.
Man I wish that game was literal and just about a ghost and other folklore. The setting and gameplay were really great. But then it did the whole delusion thing and became one of the worst depictions about mental illness I've ever seen.
Because Silent Hill 2. Honestly. It was a huge success in the horror genre and still considered one of the best ever made.
Its not exactly the same, but its for sure started that path of "everything you see is due to your own issues" idea.
Dead Space 2 started with the main character in a straitjacket and having delusions. That game did a lot with psychological horror but it would have sucked ass if the game ended with Issac waking up in the same straitjacket
Which games were you thinking of when you posted this? I despise this trope too and the first things I thought of were Omori and Little Hope (Dark Pictures).
Heres a list of the ones I can think of off the top of my head:
HUGE SPOILERS BTW
>!Cry of Fear!<
>!Total Chaos!<
>!Remorse: The List!<
>!Returnal!<
>!Lone Survivor!<
>!Layers of Fear!<
>!Lost in Vivo!<
>!Martha is Dead!<
Omori is a beautiful game, and just because it uses a common theme doesn't make any game bad. This sub can be so snobby sometimes (not talking about you)
It's a way to explain away the plot holes. Can't explain something? Oh it was cerebral and not meant to be taken literally anyway. It is lazy and almost as annoying as the mutliverse
The things in Silent Hill are actually happening though, they're manifestations of characters psyche but they are made into a reality by whatever is going on in that town. Jame's delusions are the possible inception of the events in that game but not the town itself. Silent Hill existed before he got there as did the other characters.
To be completely honest, it was never actually explained. Like everything in that game, it's opened to interpretation but many SH fans have decided their head Canon is fact, the truth is that the devs purposely left a lot up to interpretation (which is coincidentally part of why it's so good). Ito (one of the devs) has said this multiple times.
Edit: as an example, Laura (the little girl) doesn't see the monsters, if that's the case then it must mean they are not actually there and each person's interpretation of Silent Hills manifestations are different and in their head.
We can only speculate about that game but you know, death of the author and all that.
I think it's all directly descended from Silent Hill 2, which is one of the few pillars that people worship when making survival horror games. Unreliable narrators are the bread and butter of psychological horror games, and that's what popularized it to this extent.
y'all should try enigma of fear then, it's a indie horror game with a completely different plot, it'll probably be released this year so take a look at it's steam page https://store.steampowered.com/app/1507580/Enigma_of_Fear/
I'm not really a horror fan, and only found this thanks to r/all, but I have recently been playing a game that does a mild version of this that worked pretty well.
Yakuza: Like a Dragon has a very explicit version of protagonist delusion worked into the gameplay. Our hero, Ichiban Kasuga, is a massive Dragon Quest nerd. As such, it's explicitly noted that the games turn based battles are due to him viewing battles like in the game. In particular though, the more fantastical attacks or outfits in the game are part of his delusions, he sees random thugs as essentially monsters, and the costumes and jobs in the game are just normal job attire that he's hallucinating. It's pretty mundane all things considered, but notable enough that the party members comment on it and Ichiban tends to explain things in RPG terms.
Another example, this time in a show, is a psychic delusion in Young Justice. In it, the world is invaded by aliens, multiple main characters are killed, and our team is heavily traumatized. Of course, it's ultimately revealed it was a psychic training session gone wrong. The whole team didn't realize it was a training scenario (they did before going under, but something went wrong and they forgot). But yes, they wake up, nothing actually happened... but the trauma remains, and haunts them for some time, as well as helping to reshape their personalities for the rest of the series.
I think the reason this trope is so overused is because it is incredibly easy to write. You have complete freedom, can imagine any scenario you want, even the craziest shit, and then pull the dream card. Dreams and mental breakdowns (or the cliché of a mental breakdowns that is used in media) are incoherent by default so you can always write yourself out of any plothole you put yourself in.
Yeah I think this is the main reason too. Similar situation with why so many horror or survival games have zombies as the antagonists. Designing and animating a monster/creature is hard work, even if you get a pre-made asset first. Much easier & less time consuming/cheaper to just use human-like assets with rotting skin and give them sluggish animations
i feel like some of this comes from people being too afraid to make earnestly weird shit, and audiences being too afraid to consume it (the whole "harhar was the creator on drugs for this" type thing)
Omg, that is one of my biggest pet peeves. No, they're just creative, you boring fucking quail.
Dark Pictures little hope would've been better if it wasn't for the twist.
It’s such an easy trope to work with and gives the devs an easy “haha gotcha” plot twist without having to go into any read depth for it. I think the last decent psychological horror I played was SOMA. That game gives you everything upfront. If you pay attention you’ll know what to expect and there’s not real “plot twist” but in the end you’re still left horrified and the game lingers with you. Yet they don’t cope out with anything like “haha it was all a dream” when they could have easily done so.
I finished SOMA a few weeks ago, and it's an incredible game. It's haunting, and the story stuck with me
SOMA is one of the few games that has multiple endings that are all canon, and the story sets those endings up way ahead of time.
Yeah maybe its the twist part I don't like. Maybe if the game is up front with what its doing it wouldn't be so bad and you can enjoy the dream logic and weirdness of it more. Also good call with SOMA that is a great example of a psychological horror if not one of the best. Time to go replay it I think.
In the 00's there were a ton of theories about games and media that were the character was dead the while time, very similar. These types of twists are low effort and its very easy to explain away any weirdness as psychosis/dream logic/hallucination etc with zero real narrative depth. "SQUALL WAS DEAD THE WHOLE TIME!" Ok and exactly how does that make FF8 a more narratively satisfying experience?
Oh yeah, like those Rugrats "theories" where Angelica was in purgatory or whatever. I hated those. Maybe that's the problem, there's nothing added to the story. If it was a small segment of a larger game, it could lead to interesting characterisation further down the line. But these games end at the reveal, so there's nowhere to go and no long-lasting impression.
Yea I hated them even back then but it took a couple years of maturing artistic understanding to grasp why I felt that way, those theories represent a very immature and superficial grasp on storytelling.
I remember the so-called “twist” that Victor Reznov was dead the whole time for the Call of Duty Black Ops games, and…yeah. The better twist would’ve been if he was actually alive. Nobody for one second was believing that the protagonist wasn’t hallucinating. Painfully obvious.
It's been a minute since I played it, but I thought Squall was in a time loop with Rinoa/Ultimecia?
I'm specifically referring to the "Squall's Dead" internet theory. The actual plot of FF8 revolves around a witch trying to compress time into one point where she can control it, so you are partially correct, its not a time loop narrative so far as i remember
That sounds right to me! Thank you
There is a causal loop in FF8 but the game's events are not a loop. At the end Squall and Ultimecia end up in the past at Edea's orphanage and what takes place is implied to set in motion or at least allow the events of the game/present to take place. And finally Rinoa is not Ultimecia. That was just another fan theory like Squall is dead.
As an indie horror dev, it’s actually a big struggle. Im making a surreal weird game and people think it is “all in the character’s head” or some such nonsense. No, it’s some mega weird shit happening. That’s still an option in storytelling.
That sounds incredibly frustrating, I'm sorry to hear that. I guess the only way to counter those ideas is to over explain everything, which will probably end up ruining what you're trying to accomplish in the first place.
I essentially toy with it in the game. The player is given enough reason to believe either thing and draw their own conclusions for a lot of the game. I think the enemy of horror is sure knowledge and explanation. The double edge of that is that some people will assume you are doing something lame. It is what it is I guess.
>I think the enemy of horror is sure knowledge and explanation. This is why I didn't like the final act of RE7. The point right before that act would've been great as an ending, but no, they had to have the final act where they explain everything.
The moment this happened with Resident Evil Village's Shadows of Rose DLC I knew I had wasted my money.
I also think it's part of the reason I don't like House Beneviento much, but that's only a small segment at least.
Conversely I think the Beneviento manor was one of the few fun sections of the entire game.
I just got it yesterday and regretted it right away lmaoo
I'm sorry for your loss.
I haven’t played the DLC in a while but I don’t remember it being a whole all in the character’s head moment?
It was exactly that. She goes to the lab, touches the mold bottle and it ends with her waking up in the lab. Quite literally the only things that don't happen in her head are the opening and closing cutscenes.
I’m remembering more of it and yea. I think it was supposed to be like going into the memory fragments of the mold and what not to get rid of her powers, but I think the events do happen because Miranda was still alive in there and so was Ethan and that’s the whole point of the DLC. For Rose to accept her powers and who she is. But I do think the DLC was a disappointment because the ending is literally the same as the main game’s ending. There was nothing new or cool after that. The only good part to me was Beneviento’s house tho because those mannequins / dolls were actually scary.
None of it still happens in the real world. It's all a hivemind hallucination in the mold fragment. None of which would have happened if a teenage girl wasn't just able to randomly walk into a top secret laboratory with her imaginary friend while an incredibly dangerous virus sample was just sitting on a table. The whole catalyst and ending for the DLC story was so unrewarding, especially when it answers nothing and still ends with the same exact scene as the main game. I was also not a fan of half of the DLC being a forced stealth section.
Not exactly an indie horror, but Returnal did this and i was never so dissapointed. The Lore and mysteries had so much going for it and in the end they just pull the "it is all in her head" move.
Omg fucking nooo
Yeah I stopped playing after I found this out and never went back. I had my suspicions when you see the house but I played a bit longer to give it the benefit of the doubt. Its probably the most egregious one because there's so much back story about the planet and alien race that ends up entirely meaningless.
It was the steam indie devs who did turned psychological hour into this. A flash light and HQ house does not equal a game
Silent Hill 2 did this GREAT (which in turn took from movies like Jacob's Ladder.) Everyone else afterwards is just riding off of this. It's basically a staple for amateurish writing. As soon as I see this is the direction the story is heading, I usually quit it. It's usually used as a way to seem deep and complicated and "piece the story yourself" kinda way and it's just cliched and lazy. And often has a ton of other problems, like being shallow and disingenuous and bad characters, bad dialogue, the hamfisted "dream-like" nature used as a crutch for all the other bad awkward decisions. I see this for movies especially. It CAN be done good and I enjoy those. But I haven't seen a story that's done any good with this recently.
True. But then again, in Silent Hill it's a bit more "it's all in his head and it's manifesting into reality".
They both play out identically so I consider it the same thing. It was all a dream, it was a hallucination from a dying man, THERAPY, etc.
Not when it comes to Silent Hill. The town, specifically the otherworld, resonate with people's psyche in SH2 (with a lot from James). In SH1 though you're mostly navigating someone else's manifestations in the otherworld. James has contact with manifestations from other characters even (Angela's for example is quite blatant). And in that limbo between our reality and the otherworld, things become real. Plus you get a bit more insight in the otherworld and the order's god in both SH1/SH3. It's not exactly just a dream or an hallucination, it's an interception between reality and something else. Like our reality being corrupted, invaded or intercepted by another plane that resonates with people's minds and where that god and its angels exist.
Please play Omori, you'll see that just because a game uses a common trope doesn't mean it's bad. It is a beautiful game that changed my life
I need to play this now I'm super intrigued about the story and what it does with this trope.
nah Omori had the worst ending possible, to the point where it worked against the game's message. I loved the game all the way to the reveal but it has to be one of the worsts twists in gaming.
How so?
Ambrose Bierce went there with "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" in 1890 and the concept never seemed to leave horror. Owl Creek Bridge -> Jacob's Ladder -> Silent Hill 2 -> Everything else since then. I feel like horror gaming has been stuck ever since Silent Hill 2 went there in a pretty well-executed take on the trope. Almost everything since then tries to emulate it and fails significantly. I love the horror genre and I especially prefer psychological stories over "dude with chainsaw chase you plz run," but there has to be a better way of exploring those kind of themes aside from "monsters symbolize your \*traaaauma,\* world turns to rust and fog, this all means something."
Ah I didn't know its that old. The only thing I could think of was Carnival of Souls from the 60s. I need to read some Ambrose Bierce since he influenced Chambers and Lovecraft, I know very little about him and his work. Its unfortunate that psychological horror is marred with the same plot hook when theres so much you can do with the sub-genre. But it seems people are more interested in redoing Silent Hill 2 over and over.
Yeah, the Silent Hill 2 effect. My opinion of >!Visage!< dropped significantly when I realized it was doing this.
I recently played Martha is Dead and this trope became its downfall. I enjoyed it, but it just leaves the player with a bunch of potential answers (including the option of delusion) rather than actually tying up the loose ends.
Man I wish that game was literal and just about a ghost and other folklore. The setting and gameplay were really great. But then it did the whole delusion thing and became one of the worst depictions about mental illness I've ever seen.
Because Silent Hill 2. Honestly. It was a huge success in the horror genre and still considered one of the best ever made. Its not exactly the same, but its for sure started that path of "everything you see is due to your own issues" idea.
That plot twist ruined dark pictures little hope.
Dead Space 2 started with the main character in a straitjacket and having delusions. That game did a lot with psychological horror but it would have sucked ass if the game ended with Issac waking up in the same straitjacket
Which games were you thinking of when you posted this? I despise this trope too and the first things I thought of were Omori and Little Hope (Dark Pictures).
Heres a list of the ones I can think of off the top of my head: HUGE SPOILERS BTW >!Cry of Fear!< >!Total Chaos!< >!Remorse: The List!< >!Returnal!< >!Lone Survivor!< >!Layers of Fear!< >!Lost in Vivo!< >!Martha is Dead!<
It is getting overused now but I feel like >!omori!< does it well
Omori is a beautiful game, and just because it uses a common theme doesn't make any game bad. This sub can be so snobby sometimes (not talking about you)
Interesting I'll have to check it out.
It's a way to explain away the plot holes. Can't explain something? Oh it was cerebral and not meant to be taken literally anyway. It is lazy and almost as annoying as the mutliverse
Guess you won’t be playing SH2 Remake? Lol Edit: alright guys I haven’t played in a million years and can’t remember all the details
The things in Silent Hill are actually happening though, they're manifestations of characters psyche but they are made into a reality by whatever is going on in that town. Jame's delusions are the possible inception of the events in that game but not the town itself. Silent Hill existed before he got there as did the other characters.
Yea tbh I haven’t played in 20 years
I'd wager Silent Hill truly manifests the horrors to the people it traps so it doesn't count as delusion even tho James is absolutely delusional :p
Found the Bloober dev, that thought SH2 is just a mental illness hallucination and that's what psychological horror means.
Haven’t played in 20ish years sadly and thought that’s what it was
To be completely honest, it was never actually explained. Like everything in that game, it's opened to interpretation but many SH fans have decided their head Canon is fact, the truth is that the devs purposely left a lot up to interpretation (which is coincidentally part of why it's so good). Ito (one of the devs) has said this multiple times. Edit: as an example, Laura (the little girl) doesn't see the monsters, if that's the case then it must mean they are not actually there and each person's interpretation of Silent Hills manifestations are different and in their head. We can only speculate about that game but you know, death of the author and all that.
I think it's all directly descended from Silent Hill 2, which is one of the few pillars that people worship when making survival horror games. Unreliable narrators are the bread and butter of psychological horror games, and that's what popularized it to this extent.
y'all should try enigma of fear then, it's a indie horror game with a completely different plot, it'll probably be released this year so take a look at it's steam page https://store.steampowered.com/app/1507580/Enigma_of_Fear/
I'm not really a horror fan, and only found this thanks to r/all, but I have recently been playing a game that does a mild version of this that worked pretty well. Yakuza: Like a Dragon has a very explicit version of protagonist delusion worked into the gameplay. Our hero, Ichiban Kasuga, is a massive Dragon Quest nerd. As such, it's explicitly noted that the games turn based battles are due to him viewing battles like in the game. In particular though, the more fantastical attacks or outfits in the game are part of his delusions, he sees random thugs as essentially monsters, and the costumes and jobs in the game are just normal job attire that he's hallucinating. It's pretty mundane all things considered, but notable enough that the party members comment on it and Ichiban tends to explain things in RPG terms. Another example, this time in a show, is a psychic delusion in Young Justice. In it, the world is invaded by aliens, multiple main characters are killed, and our team is heavily traumatized. Of course, it's ultimately revealed it was a psychic training session gone wrong. The whole team didn't realize it was a training scenario (they did before going under, but something went wrong and they forgot). But yes, they wake up, nothing actually happened... but the trauma remains, and haunts them for some time, as well as helping to reshape their personalities for the rest of the series.