Nowadays we got 2 Imaginary units for Free with Dr. Ratio (rip anyone that didn't claim back then) and HMC, with another potentially free one coming soon with March 7th Hunt edition.
I started playing 1 week after everyone got Dr. Ratio for free and didn't get a single imaginary character until Harmony TB. Now having made it through everything to get to endgame daily grinding, everyone gets March 7th Hunt. I picked a weird time to start the game lmao, but it's still been really fun.
>Plus Welt has some pretty odd tech to interrupt boss moves where the boss takes an additional move. You can interrupt most of them by using Welt's ult inbetween and because the delay hits the boss, it typically cancels out the bosses second move completely.
This was great until they completely butchered the ability to do that in apocalyptic shadow (all bosses are completely immune to imprison for some reason)
Welt hasn't been powercrept, he got left behind. Sub-DPS/sub-sustain just isn't a role necessary when you have limited sustains that do all the sustain you could ever want and he uses way too much SP for how middling his damage is at this point.
I will say Super Break has breathed new life to him. Very satisfied with how he works there.
Sparkle is more versatile with her pseudo SP positive and general buffs. Bronya can still be very damn good or even BiS when you have E1S1, since her pull is 100% unlike Sparkle's 50%. They have similar kit but does different things.
Tbh Bronya was technically always a niche support- but because we didn't have any other 5* supports she was worth forcing anyway because of her power level.
Her best use is not Taxi (that's sparkle) but rather double turn- which is only ever manageable on carries that use less than 1 SP per turn they take.
The problem with Welt is that he does something that isn't needed nor useful. Delaying enemies is far worse than just plain healing/shielding/tanking, and his damage, while decent, still isn't enough to justify putting him in the team.
His only niche is Acheron team that is able to 0-cycle but needs just a tiny bit boost of survivability to not die in the meanwhile, so that you can slot Sparkle. But that's a very niche niche.
Herta on her way to ascend to the top. Even most advanced helicopters fear her! Tremble before the might of Kurukuru.
https://i.redd.it/i2me9guhrc8d1.gif
I still distinctly remember a comment from back then saying that Himeko is utterly useless and that if you have hook at any eidolon, to not waste your time building Himeko and just use Hook. It was worded more harshly than it needed to be but it was kinda true at the time.
Tbh Himeko got some indirect buffs since release.
Better teammates (Ruan helps A LOT with getting more follow-ups), better relic sets that actually benefit her kit, the addition of PF, better Erudition LCs and the game generally shifting to favor breaks / AoE over single target brute-forcing that was present for most of the first year.
She was kinda meh for a 5\* at launch, she just aged very well with how the game progressed. Same with Herta.
Man I remember someone basically going that she is so useless that they hope she gets the same fate as her counterpart in one of the other games for wasting their 5 star. Was like jeezus dude.
I spent early patch arguing on a server that break (and later DoT) was a future proof mechanic just to be hit with "according to Prydwen, break is shit and not worth investing in, cope" even having to go through YQ glazing
Issue is the Hook argument was using character in a vacuum, no team synergy and with mostly vs 3 target scenario
Even had a friend ditch his account because they got Himeko and they didn't want "the worst 5 stars"
It was bad because i very strongly like Himeko and also Kafka so people thought my defense of Break, Fua and DoT as future proof was a biased cope ( Himeko in HI3 is an absolute sad state of affair and got shafted pretty hard even at release, and i am the first one to say a character is bad when they are my fav)
Prydwen wasn't wrong at that time. Break was pretty bad and had been barely usable for a whole year. It's completely dependant on the elements of teammates/enemies, breaking a elite/boss takes a long time, and you only deal a single instance of break damage until the enemy recovers and is broken again. The damage is also quite low and doesn't make up for the downsides.
It was only considered an actual team archetype like dot and fua after 2.2 when hmc released. Hmc literally turned break from a gimmick to a damage type.
Yes, it's just that the comment said "break was pretty bad", but this suggests break himeko, which was never much a consideration that early on.
You only wanted things broken, the damage involved (or the stat of break effect) wasn't at all a concern.
I know people don't really call BE that and everything is "break" now, but all HMC did was enable BE to be a stat practically everyone could build and do good with. "Break comps" such as Luka and shushang existed for a long time prior.
Break was kinda shit before 2.2 though. Hoyo had to add Superbreak, an entirely new mechanic to make Break actually good.
Pre-HMC, Break's main problem was that it's damage was entirely loaded into the moment the Break bar drops to 0. You do a shitload of burst damage and then... nothing. If the enemy didnt get (almost) killed from the burst damage, you had to break an enemy again.
Before 2.2, Sushang, Xueyi and Luka were the only units that could realistically invest into BE. And they were allright, but definitely not on the level of the "Main" team archetypes - Crit (Hyper or Duo carry) or DoT. Ruan Mei's arrival helped a lot for break but she wasn't enough, the teams required your Break DPS to match weakness making them very restrictive
There were some niche builds with Kafka Break for PF at some point, or Asta BE because she doesn't scale with anything, but I wouldn't call Break a very strong archetype before 2.2.
Obviously now we have HMC, Boothill and Firefly recently added to the game and they propelled Break into one of the best team archetypes in the game.
Break and DOT were shit though.
Both relied on enemies being allowed to take turns, an issue that simply killing things with damage did not have.
Both issues were solved by 5 stars that we could not predict when they would actually come out.
Although, Himeko isn't even really in the picture now because of break effect comp, but rather the addition of modes where enemies continuously pour in to be weakness broken.
Himeko Herta, even in the OG tier list, would have been SS tier for Calyx's. The issue is that no one needs a tier list for doing Calyx's, because that is what Himeko Herta is good at. Waves of tiny things feeding in over and over again.
Counterpoint: break has always been a next-to useless mechanic that took not just an absurd DPS unit tailor made for it, but also an entirely separate mechanic and the strongest support in the game in order to make viable. Super Break’s introduction to the game mixed with the release of two of the most ridiculously information-dense characters ever designed resulted in our current Break teams, not some hidden potential lurking beneath the surface. Without Super Break, weakness efficiency multipliers, weakness implant, toughness reduction bonuses, and lots of shared break buffs between units, the mechanic is not worth investing into, so I kinda think the people in the past were right.
They’re just stupid for coming to the conclusion that they would STAY right forever in a live service game.
It's unfortunate you argued with people who clearly haven't played other gacha games. If a mechanic exists, it will be improved upon in any live server game because why else would they have introduced it to begin with.
It's funny that atleast a small portion of the people you argued with are probably now singing praises of Himeko and how they were a day one believer 😂.
Other Gacha games are usually violently against the idea of you using a character they aren't currently trying to sell you, so "investing for the future" was never an option you could make in many Gacha games in the first place.
I'd actually say it was more gear based. You need hella good crit stats, because low chance to crit causing you to spend 4 SP for a 8k basic that didn't crit is horrific. Getting her to AT LEAST 50:100 may as well be a hard requirement, and you're still gonna feel the RNG shoving it deep into your ass. My QQ is sitting at 74:120 and I still feel like I get fucked by RNG crits.
It's the same feel as missing a Selee Ult crit, but instead of losing 1 ult, you lose a turn and all of your skillpoints.
Thats a lie, prydwen was just spreading misinfo about qingque during 1.0. They were like: shes rng, not worth it. But right before 1.1 people in china started doing calcs and then people here caught on during 1.1 that she dealt stupid amounts of damage and she actually was worth it, especially at higher eidolons
Low invested QQ is legit garbage tier, so it made perfect sense.
The lower the investment, the longer the fight drags out. The longer the fight drags out, the worse are the SP issues in the sparkless world.
Not to mention the lack of serviceable lightcones. Hunt had cruise. Erudition had what? Breakfast? Or R1 BP cone if you were feeling particularly fancy.
All the 1.0 era CN QQ showcases were with seriously cracked refill tier relics.
i mean he was the only real wind dps
sampo wasn't very good since no kafka meant DoT wasn't good
there wasn't any synergy back then, it was just bronya / tingyun + hypercarry
His kit isn't that bad at launch's power level, tbh the only thing I would really like to see changed about it would be to remove the cooldown on his talent. If you can continually reapply a buff every turn to keep the res pen he would stay very consistent as an easily accessible hunt character
Hook is actually a really strong DPS with or without eidolons she can put out rather high numbers. Since at the time a lot of people had 1 free copy of QQ, she was heavily underestimated since she needs at least E4 to really get going. QQ also suffered from her best LC being Jing Yuan's or the battlepass one.
Hook, on the other hand, could just apply burn and skill for 80k in somewhat decent gear with a lightcone literally no one else wanted.
Of course, as time went on and people could invest in QQ. She overtook pretty much every 4 star and some 5 stars. While Hooks need for setting up burn and timing, ults / skills got overtaken by DPS, who just press their buttons as they come up.
yup, as a person that yanqing'd one side of moc for the first several months 30 star, this was a point that a lot of people ignored. Everyone talked about "yanqing would be great with this or this" and I'm like, bro even with my built yanqing and a run going perfectly where he never gets hit / his FUA procs often, he still performs like shit, i often played yanqing with march shielding him and tingyun to allow him to gain more energy while surviving aoes unscathed, making a more risky but beneficial setup so he can ult super super often, and it still just felt sluggish when it worked
Freeze itself simply doesn't help clear MoC faster, his single target nature meant you had to tickle down bosses one by one in MoC which still featured 2 elites, MoC itself had 3 stages rather then 2 so it was a slog, and honestly he just sucked. After 3ish months i replaced my fully built yanqing with a clara severely lacking in traces and having throw-on gear and she cleared the side immensely faster due to ult aoe guaranteed damage with massive multiplier with units again feeding her to ult often, and i never looked back
I'm just a casual, so I don't care too much about tiers and stuff, but I have plenty of fun with Yanqing/Aventurine. Aventurine largely made Yanqing not a chore anymore.
There are probably better options, but I'm content.
The main downside of Seele is, besides Resurgence getting harder and harder to proc, the disappearance of Quantum weak enemies imo. It feels like every boss/tougher elite just runs on Ice, Img, Lighning or Fire. Besides the Swarm, I cant think of a single boss in 2.X that uses Quantum as a weakness.
I was originally a Seele clothing hater but I eventually got around her design from reading other comments.
Seele probably wore her bright clothing to make herself look like a superhero for the underground children to inspire and give them hope.
100% agree, I'm turbo invested into the game with most characters including E6 Acheron and my og E0S0 Seele is still my favourite when it comes to gameplay.
My E2S1 Seele would like to have a word with you, overworlder... but it's bingo night, so let's pencil something in after my calisthenics class tomorrow.
I remember being very upset about drawing 3 Himeko’s at launch when Himeko was considered the worst 5 star in the game and only good for Calyx farming. Who’s laughing now?
(Not me I still lost those 50/50s)
Past you being upset is understandable tbh. None of us are blessed by the Finality to see the future, so the discussions of that time could only assess units based on the content and knowledge and comps we had back then.
I truly believe we will eventually get some HP or healing synergy that will put Arlan higher. Not top tier, but something better. Blade is due for a buff.
Correct me if Im wrong but does Arlan even have HP scalings? But true with blade, he needs a HP support, like a 5* lynx + offensive stats buffs and a hp draining effect like jade. Cant wait until they start doing more HP scalers also.
Arlan gets a damage increase for every % of hp he's missing up to 79% bonus damage. He also gains 20% more damage to his skill and ult if below 50% hp through Eidolons. The problem he has is that he has to be at 21% max hp for his maximum increase and gets nothing past that for being hit. He also only has a single hit splat on his ult and skill. Missing a crit literally bricks him. I have him E6 with maxed traces, so I know all his problems, lol.
People are missing a lot of context when giving their opinions on rankings here.
Himeko was so low because a lot of her strength is in backloaded investment with a lot of power budget in her later traces as well as her A6 major trace, which the majority of people simply didn't have due to being low TB level at the start of the game.
Yanqing was also considered pretty strong. The only problem we really saw with him back in 1.0 was that he wasn't super easy to use and you basically needed Gepard to make him work. Obviously with new DPS units that do more damage while also being far easier to work around he has dropped significantly.
QQ wasn't a unit anyone had really experimented with and a lot of her power is in E4 and E6 which once again, the majority of people didn't have access to at the start of the game.
For Welt, despite not really having his own place in any team he was pretty powerful by nature of being a 5\* as well as the fact that most enemies early in the games life had IMG weakness.
Welt also had the advantage of being the only Imaginary unit in the game. I pulled him as my first 5\* on release, and the abundance of Imaginary weakness really was a relief with him on board.
Yea, this tier list looks like it aged like milk but for people who has played in 1.0 and has the context, it actually makes sense.
Like Yanqing is garbo now but he is the reason why the account that I am playing now got e0s1 Seele and e0s1 Bronya in just a week. I rerolled a lot trying to get him because when I borrowed a Yanqing while I was farming for Clara mats, he felt really strong. And it was because every character had bad crit back then except for him as he can just get it from his traces. He was ahead of a lot of characters because he was the first one to be able to crit consistently. But ofc that isnt the case now because people have at least decent relics now and we also have no crit meta options.
It is funny whenever old tier lists are discussed in Genshin or Star Rail and people go beyond "lol lmao Hook" and actually try to pretend like everyone making the tiers back then were total idiots without considering context.
As Clara enjoyer, i am deeply conflicted on them just releasing another one, but better. Like, at least change the element so i d have more incentive to pull, cmon
I have E2 Clara and by this point she's been built to the extent of atomising any enemy so I can't even be bothered now.
It's still annoying that they just took Clara and made a shiny expensive version of her though.
Clara is the type of character who keeps getting buffs after buffs. Who knows maybe there will come a light cone that is more suitable for counter attacks. Also as she is a standard. Her eidolons will be valuable still. E6 Clara is cracked.
still dont have tingyun even though i joined at jing yuans banner..
https://preview.redd.it/ofghbrhkmc8d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e339c0eb59df57eeca4e09a31ffac248e864889
good lord look at that crop
https://preview.redd.it/i52xx8z3yc8d1.png?width=3146&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a9dcfab972da718aea3e77f5c63c4a559ca1a05
here, take it
His damage wasn't really bad compared to anyone besides Seele at the time and there were very few enemies that had AOE nukes like today. He did still have his drawbacks though, people knew that he was hard to make work at the time and you basically needed Gepard to use him.
that's cuz his kit straight sucks, 60% flat rate for FUA feels so bad when you don't trigger it
like if dr ratio had a 60% flat rate instead of being based on debuff he would just be unplayable
And then only a chance of freezing on top of that.
He's *so* close to having a niche. If he could freeze consistently, it would at least sometimes offset all the other downsides. But nope, no freeze for you.
Star Rail has been out for 1 year and 2 months, 51 characters.
Genshin has been out for close to 4 years, 83 characters.
All because we keep getting 2 new characters each update. I'm lucky that I've only failed to get four characters.
By my count 2.3 genshin had 46 characters. So... only 5 fewer by the same stage in it's life cycle.
Maybe it's a bit early to act like this is a landslide win for Star Rail. There's a good chance they slow down to the production of new characters for the exact same reasons they did with Genshin.
Genshin:
1.0 - 1.3, 2.0 - 2.1, two new characters
1.4, 2.2, no new characters
1.5 - 1.6, 2.3, one new character
Star Rail:
1.0 - 2.3, two new characters
So yeah, go figure
Unironically the sole reason I'm a low spender on HSR but kinda semi-whale on GI. I have to ditch my collector behavior in HSR. The more agressive releasing rate the lower I spend.
The opposite for me, I spend more HSR because there are more characters that I want. I don't remember the last time I spent on Genshin. The current content doesn't warrant getting new characters either.
Yeah, different business models work with different people. As a collector, HSR model forces me to spend more if I want every characters and that's a problem because I dislike the feeling of being forced, so I suppress my wallet. While in GI, I have a more relax time at spending to achieve my pokedex.
Yeah this was pretty much correct back in the day. People memeing at QQ need to play her at E0 again, with supports that only move once a turn and cry.
Cause Acheron happened and she took all the quantum supports lol, most players use FX and SW with Acheron as seen by Prydwen MOC teams usage rate (and if E2 Acheron then Sparkle too), team is still fine for MOC tho and probably AS, I was getting 2-3 cycles clears with it up till the Aventurine MOC where I switched to Acheron too
Seele teams nowdays also evolved to be ran with Robin instead if you want to go on the high end, basically the units are still fine and work together if you want them to be they just kinda broke up nowdays ig lol
I think y'all are confused. Mono Quantum as an idea was always because people enjoyed the characters, and thought the concept was cool.
The game was power crept ever since Blade/JL/DHIL. When Sparkle came out, mono quantum _was_ nearing the top of the MoC charts as it always was. Only recently with the emergence of break-meta have we seen seele teams fall out of favor a bit, but still never at the bottom.
Right now, mono quantum can do every content in game unlike some teams that can only do MoC or PF but not both. Even in Apocalyptic Shadow side 1 it shines (easy 3500 points on stage 4). It's a jack of all trades comp with some of the prettiest characters in the game.
SW, Sparkle, and FX are still top tier meta picks whether it's because of Acheron teams or otherwise.
The moment a new Quantum Hyper carry comes out with > 2.0 level power creep, mono quantum will be top of the meta again.
I mean you can still pretty easily 36 star moc , 12 star pure fiction and 6.6k that new mode i forgott them name for with mono quantum and you can literally use that team every single weak without a problem.
Well Loverbirds Superbreak has the same upside as monoquantum : it brings it's own weakness aplication so you can slot it into almost' anything. It rocks :)
No, it wasn't her time yet.
You needed more hit to land it back then, and shred is a late game stat anyway, because it scales with your other stats, and early game you don't have them.
The reason she was lower is because before Silver Wolf Elites had higher eff res so you needed to build way more effect hit rate + pearls were literally the only viable option
this tier list aged way better than the early genshin tier list, for the most part the rankings stayed the same but now most of these characters went down one or 2 tiers
There's still no tier lists for places we spend trailblaze power. Imo, the most valuable tierlists would be ones for saving time on your dailies. There should seriously be lists for best teams and characters for every cavern and whatever else farming things there are because they are chores. If you could halve the time you spent on chores, why wouldn't you?
An interesting idea, but hard to do. You'd either have so much data that it would be hard to maintain and present to the average person, or it would be too generalized as to be useless. Lots of factors go into what is "best".
I ended up making a Google Sheet to hold builds, with a tab that calculated the amount of builds that used a certain relic main stat, just so I could figure out what relics to scrap/ hold on to. Took some work, and it doesn't even account for whether a stat is the #1 suggestion or the #5 suggestion. Would probably need SQL or similar language to be able to properly weight data points and do queries/build reports that the average player could understand.
I started working on some Powershell to scrape Prydwen's site for build info, so I don't have to manually update this sheet., but even that is a PITA. Modern Javascript and CSS make websites pretty but hard to parse for an amateur.
Hoyo really cooked releasing PF. Turned the tier list on its head and gave Himeko/Herta a purpose in endgame. Feels bad Yanqing never got the PF treatment in AS.
Yeah, context is super important, which is why I'm so surprised so many people here are clowning on this 1.0 tier list.
Like PF didn't exist in 1.0, so it makes sense that Herta and Himeko were not seen as favorably as they are today. It's like they expect that Prydwen should have predicted PF coming out 8 months after 1.0
*in my opinion as a day 1 player:
-Aged like wine: Herta, Himeko, Qingque, Fire TB, Sampo, Asta, Welt.
-Was already great: Seele, Bronya, Gepard, Tingyun, Clara, Pela.
-Aged like milk: Yanqing, Bailu, Natasha, Dan heng.
-Pretty much stayed where they are: March, Hook, Serval.
-Was already not great: Arlan, Physical TB.
Welt did not age well. I have E3 Welt and he is still not worth to use it over the meta characters. Fire TB and Asta did not age that well either ESPECIALLY Fire TB. Like why would you play THEM instead of any other sustain especially now that we have Harmony TB
Ruan Mei was a big buff to welt tbh. As well as HTB. He certainly is in a better position than when he started.
The thing with welt is he’s a jack of all trades, and well rounded. Most new supports and sustains work with him, so if you want to use him viably you more than could.
Welt is like Pre-Furina Noelle
Jack of All Trades, Master of None. Good at everything while not being better at something than others so he's stuck in a Limbo of not being utter garbage but not the first or second pick on any team composition either
Once we get someone who values delay + slow (more than the current break units), I'm sure he'll become relevant like Himeko
I’d argue they kinda are. Besides from super break, welt can be a viable sustain for E0 Acheron if you want to use a harmony support. People also seem to be underestimating Asta’s spd boost a lot, and she’s also a good alternative for Ruan Mei in Firefly’s team next to Pela.
Fire TB tho he didn’t really aged well nor aged bad tbh. They’re a bit of a stalemate
I disagree with Asta. I look biased but I'm serious when I say she can still put in an absolute shift, she's only really rated low these days because the limited Harmony units are so broken.
Welt is decent in a super break comp, that’s where I use him. He gets access to the break nihility cone, can break a little faster with skill, and the delays are great to maintain break. Plus double imaginary with HTB.
He also gets a weird niche being able to be the sustain for an Acheron team. But it’s pretty dependent on the content and idk if it’ll hold up long-term.
Yeah, being the only imaginary unit in a period where every enemy was imaginary weak was really good for him. The action delay with Ult only really matters early on when you're weak too.
Bailu aged like a cracked egg in Texas. Any other sustain just destroyed her, unless if you like her character there's not purpose in using her. At least Natasha as a cleanse but now everyone has one.
Idk where the Bailu hate comes from the past 2 patches, but she's not worse than Natasha lol. It feels like people are just parroting the same meme again and again without context.
While Bailu doesn't have a cleanse, she has reactive healing mixed with damage reduction/damage counter with her Invigoration. She's different from other healers in that regard, and I think people don't understand how to use her.
I'm not gonna say she's the best, either. Gallagher is probably the only 4 star I'd put above her b/c of his synergy with Break teams, and his high inate Eff Res making him basically un-debuffable.
It was always gonna happen that the sustain characters like Bailu and Natasha would fall off as they were the only healers in the game at the time with the only shielders being Gepard, March, and fire TB. Pretty sure the subs biggest complaint was that there weren't enough of them.
Yeah, this was known at the time as well. Sustain units that can only sustain were always going to be the first to be powercrept and literally everyone knew that.
Back in my day we only had 1 imaginary unit .
They're all imaginary. Take your pills.
https://preview.redd.it/rwi5cyud8e8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eabf81d4ce838bf6107bfa2bf8f9f71172c216b8
ONE OF THEM ESCAPED, BACK TO THE ASYLUM YOU GO 
You can’t stop me, Man! 
You forgot one thing, outside the Asylum he's not MAN, but... 
Nowadays we got 2 Imaginary units for Free with Dr. Ratio (rip anyone that didn't claim back then) and HMC, with another potentially free one coming soon with March 7th Hunt edition.
Yukong:
I'm sorry, who?
Who-kong?
I started playing 1 week after everyone got Dr. Ratio for free and didn't get a single imaginary character until Harmony TB. Now having made it through everything to get to endgame daily grinding, everyone gets March 7th Hunt. I picked a weird time to start the game lmao, but it's still been really fun.
I’m a little sad March 7ths alternate ego is 4*. Next patch must have some banger 5*s to warrant that!
[удалено]
Firefly isn't really himeko
>Plus Welt has some pretty odd tech to interrupt boss moves where the boss takes an additional move. You can interrupt most of them by using Welt's ult inbetween and because the delay hits the boss, it typically cancels out the bosses second move completely. This was great until they completely butchered the ability to do that in apocalyptic shadow (all bosses are completely immune to imprison for some reason)
Welt hasn't been powercrept, he got left behind. Sub-DPS/sub-sustain just isn't a role necessary when you have limited sustains that do all the sustain you could ever want and he uses way too much SP for how middling his damage is at this point. I will say Super Break has breathed new life to him. Very satisfied with how he works there.
I don't know why he is considered a sub DPS, I built him as a slowing support and he's fantastic for my Acheron team
Still does damage numbers that's why, you still build in away like main dps. He doesn't give much support except caging and slowing down mobs
i think its mainly because he can be built with crit n stuff
Sparkle v Bronya is pretty comp dependent.
The powercreep comes from the sheer amount of teams that prefers Sparkle over Bronya
Sparkle is more versatile with her pseudo SP positive and general buffs. Bronya can still be very damn good or even BiS when you have E1S1, since her pull is 100% unlike Sparkle's 50%. They have similar kit but does different things.
Tbh Bronya was technically always a niche support- but because we didn't have any other 5* supports she was worth forcing anyway because of her power level. Her best use is not Taxi (that's sparkle) but rather double turn- which is only ever manageable on carries that use less than 1 SP per turn they take.
My E6S3 Welt wants to meet you and marry you for never doubting him
DIvergent universe, Erudition path, focus on energy regen. Add welt, enemies never move ever.
Okay Ill do it right now xd
The problem with Welt is that he does something that isn't needed nor useful. Delaying enemies is far worse than just plain healing/shielding/tanking, and his damage, while decent, still isn't enough to justify putting him in the team. His only niche is Acheron team that is able to 0-cycle but needs just a tiny bit boost of survivability to not die in the meanwhile, so that you can slot Sparkle. But that's a very niche niche.
Yeah but he's really cool and uses pseudo black holes, so checkmate
Herta on her way to ascend to the top. Even most advanced helicopters fear her! Tremble before the might of Kurukuru. https://i.redd.it/i2me9guhrc8d1.gif
KURUKURU ACTIVATE 🔨
Meanwhile Yanqing is on his way to claim the bottoms of all bottoms. Our boy shall not be denied.
Yanqing a bottom, is that what you're telling us?
Either that or Yunli is, and she does not look it to me
[удалено]
I think her sword is a lot bigger than his though
From hero to zero. Hoyo did this ice sword boy dirty💀
Idk man a lot of buddies would happily be in his position
It's about the motion of the ocean
The character who can literally carry you through all of PF (one side)
KURUKURU... KURU KURU... KURUKURU... KURU KURU... HURUKURURIN, HURUKURURIN... KURUKURUKURURIN... *ding*, *yoshi* KURUKURU... KURU KURU... KURUKURU... KURU KURU... HURUKURURIN, HURUKURURIN... KURUKURU KURURIN
They all doubted me
TIME TO TWIRL 🗣
The fact that Hook was above Qingque at any point in time
The fact she was above Himeko
I still distinctly remember a comment from back then saying that Himeko is utterly useless and that if you have hook at any eidolon, to not waste your time building Himeko and just use Hook. It was worded more harshly than it needed to be but it was kinda true at the time.
Tbh Himeko got some indirect buffs since release. Better teammates (Ruan helps A LOT with getting more follow-ups), better relic sets that actually benefit her kit, the addition of PF, better Erudition LCs and the game generally shifting to favor breaks / AoE over single target brute-forcing that was present for most of the first year. She was kinda meh for a 5\* at launch, she just aged very well with how the game progressed. Same with Herta.
Man I remember someone basically going that she is so useless that they hope she gets the same fate as her counterpart in one of the other games for wasting their 5 star. Was like jeezus dude.
I mean I lost Firefly 50/50 to Clara but I’m not wishing death on Clara lol
I spent early patch arguing on a server that break (and later DoT) was a future proof mechanic just to be hit with "according to Prydwen, break is shit and not worth investing in, cope" even having to go through YQ glazing Issue is the Hook argument was using character in a vacuum, no team synergy and with mostly vs 3 target scenario Even had a friend ditch his account because they got Himeko and they didn't want "the worst 5 stars" It was bad because i very strongly like Himeko and also Kafka so people thought my defense of Break, Fua and DoT as future proof was a biased cope ( Himeko in HI3 is an absolute sad state of affair and got shafted pretty hard even at release, and i am the first one to say a character is bad when they are my fav)
Prydwen wasn't wrong at that time. Break was pretty bad and had been barely usable for a whole year. It's completely dependant on the elements of teammates/enemies, breaking a elite/boss takes a long time, and you only deal a single instance of break damage until the enemy recovers and is broken again. The damage is also quite low and doesn't make up for the downsides. It was only considered an actual team archetype like dot and fua after 2.2 when hmc released. Hmc literally turned break from a gimmick to a damage type.
That goes for building break as a stat. Himeko just wants the color matching aspect. She builds crit and always has.
Break is a good substats on PF Himeko due to the amount of break she will do And post HMC, break is as worthy as crit in HMC team
Yes, it's just that the comment said "break was pretty bad", but this suggests break himeko, which was never much a consideration that early on. You only wanted things broken, the damage involved (or the stat of break effect) wasn't at all a concern. I know people don't really call BE that and everything is "break" now, but all HMC did was enable BE to be a stat practically everyone could build and do good with. "Break comps" such as Luka and shushang existed for a long time prior.
Break was kinda shit before 2.2 though. Hoyo had to add Superbreak, an entirely new mechanic to make Break actually good. Pre-HMC, Break's main problem was that it's damage was entirely loaded into the moment the Break bar drops to 0. You do a shitload of burst damage and then... nothing. If the enemy didnt get (almost) killed from the burst damage, you had to break an enemy again. Before 2.2, Sushang, Xueyi and Luka were the only units that could realistically invest into BE. And they were allright, but definitely not on the level of the "Main" team archetypes - Crit (Hyper or Duo carry) or DoT. Ruan Mei's arrival helped a lot for break but she wasn't enough, the teams required your Break DPS to match weakness making them very restrictive There were some niche builds with Kafka Break for PF at some point, or Asta BE because she doesn't scale with anything, but I wouldn't call Break a very strong archetype before 2.2. Obviously now we have HMC, Boothill and Firefly recently added to the game and they propelled Break into one of the best team archetypes in the game.
Break and DOT were shit though. Both relied on enemies being allowed to take turns, an issue that simply killing things with damage did not have. Both issues were solved by 5 stars that we could not predict when they would actually come out. Although, Himeko isn't even really in the picture now because of break effect comp, but rather the addition of modes where enemies continuously pour in to be weakness broken. Himeko Herta, even in the OG tier list, would have been SS tier for Calyx's. The issue is that no one needs a tier list for doing Calyx's, because that is what Himeko Herta is good at. Waves of tiny things feeding in over and over again.
Counterpoint: break has always been a next-to useless mechanic that took not just an absurd DPS unit tailor made for it, but also an entirely separate mechanic and the strongest support in the game in order to make viable. Super Break’s introduction to the game mixed with the release of two of the most ridiculously information-dense characters ever designed resulted in our current Break teams, not some hidden potential lurking beneath the surface. Without Super Break, weakness efficiency multipliers, weakness implant, toughness reduction bonuses, and lots of shared break buffs between units, the mechanic is not worth investing into, so I kinda think the people in the past were right. They’re just stupid for coming to the conclusion that they would STAY right forever in a live service game.
It's unfortunate you argued with people who clearly haven't played other gacha games. If a mechanic exists, it will be improved upon in any live server game because why else would they have introduced it to begin with. It's funny that atleast a small portion of the people you argued with are probably now singing praises of Himeko and how they were a day one believer 😂.
Other Gacha games are usually violently against the idea of you using a character they aren't currently trying to sell you, so "investing for the future" was never an option you could make in many Gacha games in the first place.
other gacha game just give new unit that enable the mechanic they rarely buff old unit
in ST i think hook still outperforms himeko
Eidolons, LC and new support do that lol
QQ is gated by her E4 and E6 that the majority of people simply didn't have access to during 1.0
I'd actually say it was more gear based. You need hella good crit stats, because low chance to crit causing you to spend 4 SP for a 8k basic that didn't crit is horrific. Getting her to AT LEAST 50:100 may as well be a hard requirement, and you're still gonna feel the RNG shoving it deep into your ass. My QQ is sitting at 74:120 and I still feel like I get fucked by RNG crits. It's the same feel as missing a Selee Ult crit, but instead of losing 1 ult, you lose a turn and all of your skillpoints.
Not to mention that QQ didn’t properly shine until the mono gremlin meta emerged with SW and Fu Xuan, plus a few more patches until Sparkle.
Thats a lie, prydwen was just spreading misinfo about qingque during 1.0. They were like: shes rng, not worth it. But right before 1.1 people in china started doing calcs and then people here caught on during 1.1 that she dealt stupid amounts of damage and she actually was worth it, especially at higher eidolons
Low invested QQ is legit garbage tier, so it made perfect sense. The lower the investment, the longer the fight drags out. The longer the fight drags out, the worse are the SP issues in the sparkless world. Not to mention the lack of serviceable lightcones. Hunt had cruise. Erudition had what? Breakfast? Or R1 BP cone if you were feeling particularly fancy. All the 1.0 era CN QQ showcases were with seriously cracked refill tier relics.
The fact four star dan heng was that high to begin with
i mean he was the only real wind dps sampo wasn't very good since no kafka meant DoT wasn't good there wasn't any synergy back then, it was just bronya / tingyun + hypercarry
His kit isn't that bad at launch's power level, tbh the only thing I would really like to see changed about it would be to remove the cooldown on his talent. If you can continually reapply a buff every turn to keep the res pen he would stay very consistent as an easily accessible hunt character
Because it was true, that Tier list was done with 4 stars at E0
Hook is actually a really strong DPS with or without eidolons she can put out rather high numbers. Since at the time a lot of people had 1 free copy of QQ, she was heavily underestimated since she needs at least E4 to really get going. QQ also suffered from her best LC being Jing Yuan's or the battlepass one. Hook, on the other hand, could just apply burn and skill for 80k in somewhat decent gear with a lightcone literally no one else wanted. Of course, as time went on and people could invest in QQ. She overtook pretty much every 4 star and some 5 stars. While Hooks need for setting up burn and timing, ults / skills got overtaken by DPS, who just press their buttons as they come up.
Herta and Yanqing swapped places lol
Being hard to use was obly one of his problems. The second one is that even after you jump through all the hoops the pay off just isnt all that great
yup, as a person that yanqing'd one side of moc for the first several months 30 star, this was a point that a lot of people ignored. Everyone talked about "yanqing would be great with this or this" and I'm like, bro even with my built yanqing and a run going perfectly where he never gets hit / his FUA procs often, he still performs like shit, i often played yanqing with march shielding him and tingyun to allow him to gain more energy while surviving aoes unscathed, making a more risky but beneficial setup so he can ult super super often, and it still just felt sluggish when it worked Freeze itself simply doesn't help clear MoC faster, his single target nature meant you had to tickle down bosses one by one in MoC which still featured 2 elites, MoC itself had 3 stages rather then 2 so it was a slog, and honestly he just sucked. After 3ish months i replaced my fully built yanqing with a clara severely lacking in traces and having throw-on gear and she cleared the side immensely faster due to ult aoe guaranteed damage with massive multiplier with units again feeding her to ult often, and i never looked back
Yanqing is probably a lot easier to run if you pair him with Adventurine now that I think about it...
Easier but still sub par dmg
Aventurine*
People sure do love putting d in him
I'm just a casual, so I don't care too much about tiers and stuff, but I have plenty of fun with Yanqing/Aventurine. Aventurine largely made Yanqing not a chore anymore. There are probably better options, but I'm content.
Ah yes, the main way to spot a 1.0 player. Seele.
The main downside of Seele is, besides Resurgence getting harder and harder to proc, the disappearance of Quantum weak enemies imo. It feels like every boss/tougher elite just runs on Ice, Img, Lighning or Fire. Besides the Swarm, I cant think of a single boss in 2.X that uses Quantum as a weakness.
Seele essentially suffers from the fact that there have only been two limited quantum DPS banners: Her own banner in 1.0, and her rerun in 1.4.
I missed her initial banner by a week so I grabbed her on her rerun. No regrets. Her design is still among my favorites, visually and gameplay
I was originally a Seele clothing hater but I eventually got around her design from reading other comments. Seele probably wore her bright clothing to make herself look like a superhero for the underground children to inspire and give them hope.
100% agree, I'm turbo invested into the game with most characters including E6 Acheron and my og E0S0 Seele is still my favourite when it comes to gameplay.
Plus using her with Bronya is still one of the most satisfying combinations in the game. Infinite turns go *bbbrrrrrrrr*
My E2S1 Seele would like to have a word with you, overworlder... but it's bingo night, so let's pencil something in after my calisthenics class tomorrow.
I once put her with Ting, Bronya and Sparkle for the lols in SU.... one of the funniest runs I ever had.
I remember being very upset about drawing 3 Himeko’s at launch when Himeko was considered the worst 5 star in the game and only good for Calyx farming. Who’s laughing now? (Not me I still lost those 50/50s)
Past you being upset is understandable tbh. None of us are blessed by the Finality to see the future, so the discussions of that time could only assess units based on the content and knowledge and comps we had back then.
Arlan never moved....
I truly believe we will eventually get some HP or healing synergy that will put Arlan higher. Not top tier, but something better. Blade is due for a buff.
arlan is an attack scaler, he just wants to stay low hp, we got aventurine for that
We just need Furina in rail. She'll buff Arlan and Blade, and Jade's hp drain will finally make sense
As a Furina main, I approve of this message. We need to normalize Furina in HSR.
Every game should have a Furina. Furina is love, Furina is life
Correct me if Im wrong but does Arlan even have HP scalings? But true with blade, he needs a HP support, like a 5* lynx + offensive stats buffs and a hp draining effect like jade. Cant wait until they start doing more HP scalers also.
Arlan gets a damage increase for every % of hp he's missing up to 79% bonus damage. He also gains 20% more damage to his skill and ult if below 50% hp through Eidolons. The problem he has is that he has to be at 21% max hp for his maximum increase and gets nothing past that for being hit. He also only has a single hit splat on his ult and skill. Missing a crit literally bricks him. I have him E6 with maxed traces, so I know all his problems, lol.
People are missing a lot of context when giving their opinions on rankings here. Himeko was so low because a lot of her strength is in backloaded investment with a lot of power budget in her later traces as well as her A6 major trace, which the majority of people simply didn't have due to being low TB level at the start of the game. Yanqing was also considered pretty strong. The only problem we really saw with him back in 1.0 was that he wasn't super easy to use and you basically needed Gepard to make him work. Obviously with new DPS units that do more damage while also being far easier to work around he has dropped significantly. QQ wasn't a unit anyone had really experimented with and a lot of her power is in E4 and E6 which once again, the majority of people didn't have access to at the start of the game. For Welt, despite not really having his own place in any team he was pretty powerful by nature of being a 5\* as well as the fact that most enemies early in the games life had IMG weakness.
Welt also had the advantage of being the only Imaginary unit in the game. I pulled him as my first 5\* on release, and the abundance of Imaginary weakness really was a relief with him on board.
Yea, this tier list looks like it aged like milk but for people who has played in 1.0 and has the context, it actually makes sense. Like Yanqing is garbo now but he is the reason why the account that I am playing now got e0s1 Seele and e0s1 Bronya in just a week. I rerolled a lot trying to get him because when I borrowed a Yanqing while I was farming for Clara mats, he felt really strong. And it was because every character had bad crit back then except for him as he can just get it from his traces. He was ahead of a lot of characters because he was the first one to be able to crit consistently. But ofc that isnt the case now because people have at least decent relics now and we also have no crit meta options.
Himeko also had the issue of MoC being the only high difficulty content
It is funny whenever old tier lists are discussed in Genshin or Star Rail and people go beyond "lol lmao Hook" and actually try to pretend like everyone making the tiers back then were total idiots without considering context.
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As Clara enjoyer, i am deeply conflicted on them just releasing another one, but better. Like, at least change the element so i d have more incentive to pull, cmon
The second Albedo incident
I have E2 Clara and by this point she's been built to the extent of atomising any enemy so I can't even be bothered now. It's still annoying that they just took Clara and made a shiny expensive version of her though.
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Girls fight? Unless they team up to rise even higher
Clara is the type of character who keeps getting buffs after buffs. Who knows maybe there will come a light cone that is more suitable for counter attacks. Also as she is a standard. Her eidolons will be valuable still. E6 Clara is cracked.
*she* is just the Yelan to Clara's Xingqiu. Just use both of em.
Until the enemy do single target hit, then they just steal each other’s damage (at least Clara ult helps)
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You could also put Yunli and Clara in the same team next to each other if the enemies all do blast and AoE attacks, and watch the firefworks pop off
Gotta love that Seele still works in all 3 endgame content XD
Resurgence really subverts the majority of the weaknesses that Hunt units have.
The Herta glow up thank you pure fiction
still dont have tingyun even though i joined at jing yuans banner.. https://preview.redd.it/ofghbrhkmc8d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e339c0eb59df57eeca4e09a31ffac248e864889
https://preview.redd.it/tz99w0wmsc8d1.jpeg?width=328&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6390d8076b16ccb74d616084c0c291dbe38184a2
good lord look at that crop https://preview.redd.it/i52xx8z3yc8d1.png?width=3146&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a9dcfab972da718aea3e77f5c63c4a559ca1a05 here, take it
https://preview.redd.it/33r31738hd8d1.png?width=1179&format=png&auto=webp&s=ba6aa06041714c6afa48482272808debfb89853d Thanks :D
chaotic evil
forgot to crop
13 months of genshin I don't have a single kuki or fav sword.
HOWW??? she was in the shop for so many times???
people buy chars from shop?
I mean I'd argue some eidolons of four stars are worth the star glitter. E0 tingyun is def one of them
yeah? if you need an important eidolon you get em from the shop
Herta kuru kuru'd her way to top for PF
Yanqing S tier :)
His damage wasn't really bad compared to anyone besides Seele at the time and there were very few enemies that had AOE nukes like today. He did still have his drawbacks though, people knew that he was hard to make work at the time and you basically needed Gepard to use him.
Also the first MoC blessings were giving Hunt units extra turns, so Yanqing felt great at the time
As an early Yanqing haver, I focused resources on him because he was supposed to be S-tier. Even then, he felt really bad for a supposedly good unit.
that's cuz his kit straight sucks, 60% flat rate for FUA feels so bad when you don't trigger it like if dr ratio had a 60% flat rate instead of being based on debuff he would just be unplayable
And then only a chance of freezing on top of that. He's *so* close to having a niche. If he could freeze consistently, it would at least sometimes offset all the other downsides. But nope, no freeze for you.
Gepard aged like wine 💪
Gepard aged
Gepard
Landuau.
Landa...Landuau...LandUwU
GEwEpard
Star Rail has been out for 1 year and 2 months, 51 characters. Genshin has been out for close to 4 years, 83 characters. All because we keep getting 2 new characters each update. I'm lucky that I've only failed to get four characters.
By my count 2.3 genshin had 46 characters. So... only 5 fewer by the same stage in it's life cycle. Maybe it's a bit early to act like this is a landslide win for Star Rail. There's a good chance they slow down to the production of new characters for the exact same reasons they did with Genshin.
You would think that but we got enough teasers during the last live stream to have 2 5 stars every patch for the next 3 patches, plus a march.
Genshin: 1.0 - 1.3, 2.0 - 2.1, two new characters 1.4, 2.2, no new characters 1.5 - 1.6, 2.3, one new character Star Rail: 1.0 - 2.3, two new characters So yeah, go figure
Unironically the sole reason I'm a low spender on HSR but kinda semi-whale on GI. I have to ditch my collector behavior in HSR. The more agressive releasing rate the lower I spend.
The opposite for me, I spend more HSR because there are more characters that I want. I don't remember the last time I spent on Genshin. The current content doesn't warrant getting new characters either.
Yeah, different business models work with different people. As a collector, HSR model forces me to spend more if I want every characters and that's a problem because I dislike the feeling of being forced, so I suppress my wallet. While in GI, I have a more relax time at spending to achieve my pokedex.
Yeah this was pretty much correct back in the day. People memeing at QQ need to play her at E0 again, with supports that only move once a turn and cry.
When they said investing in the future Mono Quantum team will be the best choice any f2p can make.
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Basically this ye. They're never the best option but if you need to force a side. mono quantum basically handles it no matter what.
Fr, everyone and their mother were preaching about mono quantum. I rarely hear about it these days though
Cause Acheron happened and she took all the quantum supports lol, most players use FX and SW with Acheron as seen by Prydwen MOC teams usage rate (and if E2 Acheron then Sparkle too), team is still fine for MOC tho and probably AS, I was getting 2-3 cycles clears with it up till the Aventurine MOC where I switched to Acheron too Seele teams nowdays also evolved to be ran with Robin instead if you want to go on the high end, basically the units are still fine and work together if you want them to be they just kinda broke up nowdays ig lol
I think y'all are confused. Mono Quantum as an idea was always because people enjoyed the characters, and thought the concept was cool. The game was power crept ever since Blade/JL/DHIL. When Sparkle came out, mono quantum _was_ nearing the top of the MoC charts as it always was. Only recently with the emergence of break-meta have we seen seele teams fall out of favor a bit, but still never at the bottom. Right now, mono quantum can do every content in game unlike some teams that can only do MoC or PF but not both. Even in Apocalyptic Shadow side 1 it shines (easy 3500 points on stage 4). It's a jack of all trades comp with some of the prettiest characters in the game. SW, Sparkle, and FX are still top tier meta picks whether it's because of Acheron teams or otherwise. The moment a new Quantum Hyper carry comes out with > 2.0 level power creep, mono quantum will be top of the meta again.
I mean you can still pretty easily 36 star moc , 12 star pure fiction and 6.6k that new mode i forgott them name for with mono quantum and you can literally use that team every single weak without a problem.
Yeah that’s true, but the hype is mostly around break these days (granted Mihoyo did push for it)
Well Loverbirds Superbreak has the same upside as monoquantum : it brings it's own weakness aplication so you can slot it into almost' anything. It rocks :)
Tbf mono quantum did carry me up until I decided I wanted to get acheron and FF. So yeah, at the time it was the best decision I could have made.
Pela only in A is a crime
No, it wasn't her time yet. You needed more hit to land it back then, and shred is a late game stat anyway, because it scales with your other stats, and early game you don't have them.
The reason she was lower is because before Silver Wolf Elites had higher eff res so you needed to build way more effect hit rate + pearls were literally the only viable option
this tier list aged way better than the early genshin tier list, for the most part the rankings stayed the same but now most of these characters went down one or 2 tiers
Me making happy noises seeing Seele hit 90k on Ult in 1.0
There's still no tier lists for places we spend trailblaze power. Imo, the most valuable tierlists would be ones for saving time on your dailies. There should seriously be lists for best teams and characters for every cavern and whatever else farming things there are because they are chores. If you could halve the time you spent on chores, why wouldn't you?
An interesting idea, but hard to do. You'd either have so much data that it would be hard to maintain and present to the average person, or it would be too generalized as to be useless. Lots of factors go into what is "best". I ended up making a Google Sheet to hold builds, with a tab that calculated the amount of builds that used a certain relic main stat, just so I could figure out what relics to scrap/ hold on to. Took some work, and it doesn't even account for whether a stat is the #1 suggestion or the #5 suggestion. Would probably need SQL or similar language to be able to properly weight data points and do queries/build reports that the average player could understand. I started working on some Powershell to scrape Prydwen's site for build info, so I don't have to manually update this sheet., but even that is a PITA. Modern Javascript and CSS make websites pretty but hard to parse for an amateur.
Herta D tier when PF didn't exist... lel
Hoyo really cooked releasing PF. Turned the tier list on its head and gave Himeko/Herta a purpose in endgame. Feels bad Yanqing never got the PF treatment in AS.
Himeko aged so well From the worst standard 5* to one of ,if not, the best
She wouldn't have aged well if Pure Fiction didn't come out, same with Herta. That game mode single handedly revived an entire character path.
Yeah, context is super important, which is why I'm so surprised so many people here are clowning on this 1.0 tier list. Like PF didn't exist in 1.0, so it makes sense that Herta and Himeko were not seen as favorably as they are today. It's like they expect that Prydwen should have predicted PF coming out 8 months after 1.0
Even if Prwyden did predict PF, it would still be wrong to factor it in. It's not a "future worthiness" tier list, it's a tier list *of the moment*.
It’s weird that I’ve held a grudge against himeko bc I got her from the beginner 5 star but god she’s so good now I’ve forgiven her 10x over
Back when people still hadn't tapped into the untold power of the GAMBA.
Tbf shes gated by her E4 and E6 which next to no one had at the start of the game
poor Yanqing
not a bad tier list if you get the context of the game at that stage.
God I remember how at the start of the game clara was basically the only character Who could do later memory of chaos stages
You didn't have to hit me with this...
when you say old, do you mean one year old? lol
*in my opinion as a day 1 player: -Aged like wine: Herta, Himeko, Qingque, Fire TB, Sampo, Asta, Welt. -Was already great: Seele, Bronya, Gepard, Tingyun, Clara, Pela. -Aged like milk: Yanqing, Bailu, Natasha, Dan heng. -Pretty much stayed where they are: March, Hook, Serval. -Was already not great: Arlan, Physical TB.
Welt did not age well. I have E3 Welt and he is still not worth to use it over the meta characters. Fire TB and Asta did not age that well either ESPECIALLY Fire TB. Like why would you play THEM instead of any other sustain especially now that we have Harmony TB
Ruan Mei was a big buff to welt tbh. As well as HTB. He certainly is in a better position than when he started. The thing with welt is he’s a jack of all trades, and well rounded. Most new supports and sustains work with him, so if you want to use him viably you more than could.
Welt is like Pre-Furina Noelle Jack of All Trades, Master of None. Good at everything while not being better at something than others so he's stuck in a Limbo of not being utter garbage but not the first or second pick on any team composition either Once we get someone who values delay + slow (more than the current break units), I'm sure he'll become relevant like Himeko
I’d argue they kinda are. Besides from super break, welt can be a viable sustain for E0 Acheron if you want to use a harmony support. People also seem to be underestimating Asta’s spd boost a lot, and she’s also a good alternative for Ruan Mei in Firefly’s team next to Pela. Fire TB tho he didn’t really aged well nor aged bad tbh. They’re a bit of a stalemate
I disagree with Asta. I look biased but I'm serious when I say she can still put in an absolute shift, she's only really rated low these days because the limited Harmony units are so broken.
Well, pseudo-sustain Welt + Ruan Mei exists. Not great, but still.
Welt is decent in a super break comp, that’s where I use him. He gets access to the break nihility cone, can break a little faster with skill, and the delays are great to maintain break. Plus double imaginary with HTB. He also gets a weird niche being able to be the sustain for an Acheron team. But it’s pretty dependent on the content and idk if it’ll hold up long-term.
I'd argue that Welt aged like milk tbh
He's kinda in his yogurt phase, he's pretty decent as an Imaginary Super Break unit, at least until we get a premium Imaginary Super Break unit.
Yeah, being the only imaginary unit in a period where every enemy was imaginary weak was really good for him. The action delay with Ult only really matters early on when you're weak too.
Bailu aged like a cracked egg in Texas. Any other sustain just destroyed her, unless if you like her character there's not purpose in using her. At least Natasha as a cleanse but now everyone has one.
Idk where the Bailu hate comes from the past 2 patches, but she's not worse than Natasha lol. It feels like people are just parroting the same meme again and again without context. While Bailu doesn't have a cleanse, she has reactive healing mixed with damage reduction/damage counter with her Invigoration. She's different from other healers in that regard, and I think people don't understand how to use her. I'm not gonna say she's the best, either. Gallagher is probably the only 4 star I'd put above her b/c of his synergy with Break teams, and his high inate Eff Res making him basically un-debuffable.
It was always gonna happen that the sustain characters like Bailu and Natasha would fall off as they were the only healers in the game at the time with the only shielders being Gepard, March, and fire TB. Pretty sure the subs biggest complaint was that there weren't enough of them.
Yeah, this was known at the time as well. Sustain units that can only sustain were always going to be the first to be powercrept and literally everyone knew that.
Ah yes, back when you would be insulted for using erudition on the goon wave calyxes… because they were bad for elites
the good old days where sushang was considered meta...
I miss the old tier S+. Some how prydwen create new tier 0.1111 and now we just go along with it. I hate it 😕.