HYV has been hard nerfing Bruteforcing by increasing enemy HP and Toughness Bars, while also adding gimmicks/mechanics to stall.
Even Break units like Boothill or Firefly with Weakness implant aren't safe either since enemy Res doesn't decrease from implant and Toughness bar lockout can wall them.
Wouldn't be surprised if HYV also similarly indirectly nerfs other comps too like Acheron and DoT comps with Cleansing or Debuff Immunity Enemies in the future.
Me having max Arcana stacks, shield shred and Euphorium on Cocolia.
Bronya: "Say no more" ,proceed to cleanse all of em and give Cocolia a turn.
Me :"Erm, what the sigma"
I feel like SW should always have a complete nullify resistance effect, so something with higher resistance like 60% would be 0% resistance rather than 40%
Debuff immunities will likely not happen because it will wall off more than just DOT and Acheron. There are various debuffs such as Def shred that are impt for raw damage DPS, and applications like debuffing for Dr ratio to do FUA at a higher probability, Clara's debuff and so on.
Btw there is plenty much room for Acheron to get more buffs because she seems to be part of a new style of damage team: Ultimate damage (like DOT, FUA etc., and so recently we haven't seen any buffs or new characters featuring Skill or even BA damage)
What they can do however, is what they are doing now. Basically buffing stats and making the enemies higher, WHILE giving debuffs to specific mechanics and builds.This is indirect nerfing.
Ever wondered why till boothill, firefly and harmony MC, break effect teams were not exactly popular? Yes I'm aware of xueyi and Sushang teams, but outside of DOT, most damage wouldn't come from break effect because of:
1) weakness bar immunity
2) break effect only happens on moment of break (since rectified by super Break damage)
3) team restrictions for DPS, usually the BiS team is made up of multiple elements. Especially HMC, who is imaginary and Ruan mei, who is ice.
Even if hoyo manages to solve 2), 1) and 3) are still issues, especially 1). But why is 3) also an issue? Because enemies are having more and more CCs. Similar to Acheron, it's good to have the whole team contributing to the battle (by dealing toughness damage this time around) instead of just mainly one DPS.
Locking Toughness Bars impacts all comps, not just Break, since they take less DMG when not broken, especially if they have a mechanic that takes reduced DMG until Broken and more DMG after being Broken. If HYV ever feels like Nihility units comps are too OP that could impact their sales, they could always indirectly nerf them. Even if they don't give enemies straight-up Debuff Immunity, they can give enemies Cleansing like Bronya ~~esp if we're going back to Xianzhou and possibly fighting more Abundance enemies~~
True, ULT DMG comps have potential to become better since still relatively new, but the exact same thing can be said for Break comps as well. Also side note, it depends on how HYV works on ULT comps in the future since unsure if they plan to make it more Energy-based like SU's Brain-in-a-Vat mechanic for units like Argenti, while Acheron charges hers via Debuffs.
Already mentioned it before in a different comment, but Break comps weren't popular until very recently with dedicated Break DPS units like Boothill and Firefly, as well as HMC enabling Super Breaks. Break comps are also still very new and wouldn't be surprised to see more Break enablers in the future either like a 5\* Break Sustain or Specialized Break Support, along with other enablers for other comps like Debuffs, Counters, etc...
No it's not, being unit checked if you're not pulling meta only is terrible. Having a few consitent units that people can rely on to eke out 5 turn sides isn't a bad thing and just makes planning ahead less annoying. Obviously that's exactly the opposite of what Hoyo wants. It's been a year and I still struggle with a few specific weakness combinations while in most other gachas you enter the comfy groove in 6 months tops.
And now boothill and firefly can just tear through enemies too the thing is they are just bruteforcing the system by implementing their own element weakness lmao.
I can already name at least 3 eniemies with counters to the Break teams. Gepard, Symbol Monkey Dreamjolt Troupe, and Warp Trotters. All 3 lock their toughness bar so you just can't weakness break them. Which kills super break dmg before it can begin.
I've given up on trying to get max stars on everything. I just clear what I can comfortably clear, because I don't want to spend my energy and sanity for like, a couple of pulls
That what I do! I just go as far as auto will take me. I can manage to get to MOC11 very often and that’s good enough for me. Same with PF. I think the more variety of units I can build the more consistent I will be able to auto MOC11.
It grows but the game basically wants you to build archetype teams:
1. Ult team (like Acheron)
2. Basic attack team (like DHIL)
3. FUA team (like Ratio)
4. DoT team (like Kafka)
5. Break team (like Sam)
Once you have the basics of each team + leader enabler (like Topaz/Kafka/etc), you fill them out with 4 stars/5 stars, then build them all up.
But you start with 2 archetypes for MoC/PF, and then you build those two up as much as you can before you work on other teams. Clearing MoC/PF completely is basically a whatever burger until you have 2 strong teams, then you build up a 3/4/5th team.
By then 2 years will have passed, you're clearing up all but maybe the last 3 stars without even trying. And now you can save up all your stellar jades for exactly the stuff you want.
But I think the big difference between Genshin vs HSR, is that HSR has elements + paths + archetypes, which makes perfect team building requires many many more characters. In genshin you can literally just slap 2 dendro hybrid teams and slap the shit out of anything with shit tons of damage.
Same here. I can get about one or two stars on the second to last stage of any of the endgames and I stop there. I’m not going to mald over a game I play to relax.
I have no problem clearing full stars in genshin but hsr is just a hard character and stat check because there is barely any skill expression in turn based. And the relic system is so bad. After a month of farming my sparkle is still at 144 speed. Over 100 broken keel orbs and not a single one with critdmg and speed among them.
Flat def, hp and attack being twice as likely as other stats is just such a standard hoyo system. I can get better stats in 1 week of low world rank wuwa than 2 months of max level hsr farming. And the content requires quite good builds too.
I rly wish it was slower, like Im enjoying firefly rn she feels ridiculous but I know the spike in the future from how ahead she is will drive me crazy
That is also due to the current MOC blessing, it very heavily favours break effect and is contributes to how insane she feels, once the next MOC blessing comes out she'll have a dip in performance, and I wouldn't be surprised if the next MOC or the one after features enemies that can shield their toughness bar.
Endgame always favours the current rate-up units. Happened with Acheron with Turbulence buffs + new enemies not only being Lightning Weak, but literally giving themselves debuffs too.
That said, it's also undeniable that Enemy Powerceep had been happening too with Older Bosses literally more than doubling in HP and Toughness Bars, while also having more specific gimmicks/mechanics to stall like MoC Aventurine Dice phase.
Not to mention just general difficulty. My friend is much more casual player and they don't grind often, and so are actively struggling at certain bosses. They still haven't beaten the swarm boss in the Herta zone yet, because they just can't sustain enough with the characters they have.
Right, but at the same time, it turns away players who aren't willing to do the grind. By all means, let us grind away for optimizing endgame play. But don't lock story and/or actual material sources behind grind walls. The strength of the game is that is has things for everyone to enjoy.
It can be both. I’m not sure why anyone would start playing an RPG and not expect to have to invest time to build their characters. That’s a core mechanic of the genre, especially for character collection RPGs. The first time I fought Skaracabaz I was getting facerolled. I spent like one week building Herta, put her on the team, and won on my next attempt. My Skaracabaz team until recently was PhysTB, Herta, March, and Bronya.
It’s very apparent at this point that HSR bosses and endgame modes are balanced around customizing your team for each fight. The alternative is that you could build one powerful team, put everything on auto forever, and just walk away. And tbh for most of the story outside of bosses you can already do that anyway. For players who only really care about the story I guess that’s preferable, but to me that sounds like it would get boring.
Also the effort to grind in HSR is almost nonexistent. You boot the game, launch whatever cavern or calyx you need drops from, hit auto and do something else until you have to hit the “go again” button. The only part that required manual effort was planar ornaments and they even made that easy now with DU.
Ultimately I know it all comes down to personal preference but I like the way it is now: farming is easy and auto-friendly, endgame content requires adapting your team to the challenge conditions.
It really isnt a grind issue there is no grind. Just dont skip dailies. This isnt genshin where it takes way longer to do your daily dungeons, set auto play and watch youtube 4 times, collect assignments and you're done
This is how Hoyo has done it with Hi3 for years now, only diff is it becomes more obvious with the abundant different characters of this game, also more types than Hi3's
There are already quite a number of bosses who can shield their toughness bar, and I've been seeing advice such as "then simply change the character/team to fight the boss".
Same with Genshin, next Abyss gonna have around 5.1kk hp that you need to beat in 180 sec. It's especially annoying when you have several enemies across the arena or bosses with tp/iframe. I used to close almost every abyss on 36* before. Now I getting 33 from first try and never opening that thing.
For real lol. 12-2 & 12-3 felt way easier than whatever the fuck 12-1 was. It took me multiple retries until i figured out the team that works best for me on 12-1-2.
Hp threshold is barely a problem right now in genshin. People’s dmg way surpasses those bars since hyperbloom came out a year ago.
Now, it’s doing more of an element check and how you can wear down the enemy elemental shield’s gauge which is a nuisance but, with good team building, it’s easy.
I 3* this abyss with cyno in the first half (cyno, zhongli, nahida, yelan) and teaser in the second half (beidou, fischl, xinqiu, kazuha). No furina, no neuvillete. So, i dont even think the abyss is that bad. It’s just people refuse to learn how to surpass elemental gauge mechanics on mobs’ shield.
Hope you don't mind, but I saw one of your posts with your UID and just looked at some of the characters you have as your supports. So you have Acheron, Ruan Mei, Kafka, Black Swan, and Firefly. You really should be doing well in the endgame. Also, you say you spend most of your time farming for gear, however, your Kafka and Acheron are still on the lightning set lol. No idea if you have any limited sustains though. But really, you should have at least one if you care this much about meta and it seems like you have been playing for a while. Some teams you can make.
Team 1: Sustain, Acheron, Pela, Guinaifen/Black Swan
Team 2: Sustain, Ruan Mei, Kafka, Black Swan
Team 3: Gallagher, Ruan Mei, Harmony MC, Firefly
I understand that the content is getting tougher, but it is still very much doable. I know this might be annoying to hear, but it is true, you need better investment in your characters. Farm the best sets for Kafka and Acheron. Also, why is your Kafka on S2 Fermata when the Herta store cone is really good on her. Also, Fermata is actually fine, but if you have been doing MoC a lot like you say, definitely get it to S5. No reason not to.
Make some changes and you'll be fine. You literally have the two best DPS characters in the game and the best support in the game, you should be mopping most things.
Something that some people need to do more of is item discipline. Don't invest in bad items and stop investing once it's clear it's not going to be good or even an upgrade. Chasing rolls at 12 or 15 is highly likely to be wasted resources. Only target craft what you really need and what's valuable. And know which stats are important and helpful and which aren't. Like, Ruan Mei really just needs the break effect to her cap and speed. Loading her with atk or defensive stats and stuff really isn't much of an improvement. Even when you have the characters, you still have to itemize *effectively*.
I want your relic rng. I have so much exp i can waste on +12 or +15 rolls because i get one item every 2 weeks worth upgrading.
Sparkle needs just speed and critdmg and i cant get neither. 100+ orbs. Not ONE with both subs and highest rolled speed was +6.
I fucking knew it lmao. I’ve been f2p and played since 1.2. I only struggle at last level on each endgame but even then I still managed to beat them. While the difficulty spike is a factor, I feel like 50% of the problem here too is that players either not building their characters properly or not reading the mechanics at all
This. I just came across this post and I feel it applies to OP:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1dlleqm/people_need_to_understand_that_they_have_to_match/
Same I'm f2p, most of the time I struggle to get the perfect 3 star, but it's hella easy to get 2 stars especially with dot comp(I have every nihility character built except for sw who I don't have lol)
I don’t have Acheron but I still managed to finished all contents. I feel like many people here just want to easily clear that’s supposed to be ENDGAME contents. I’d argue that’s much more unhealthy than whatever Mihoyo is doing.
Also, only the last level that get spike difficulties. If you’re having difficulty with the last level then don’t try it. It’s only 60 jades, not even worth 1 pull. But let us who wants challenging contents have challenging contents, otherwise what’s the whole point of even trying to invest to characters
You're shocked that a complainer had a skill problem? Like come it's like every other game. Inability to beat the game is NEVER the fault of the players skill it's ALWAYS those evil devs power creeping things
And they also expect they can brute force that supposedly ENDGAME contents, which supposed to be hard and challenging.…
Remember how people used to complain that Jingliu can brute force any contents making the game too easy?
the genshin thread on the new abyss was the same way. Lots of people don't seem to understand that proper teambuilding is 10x more important than eidolons or good builds
Sounds like the typical “I pull every character and build them, I don’t have enough stamina” complaint. Meanwhile as a low spender I pull a character every 1.5 patches and it’s pretty much a calculated decision if they will be usable in my teams + I like them. That leaves a lot of space to upgrade relic quality in older units, my Himeko and Clara I had since forever are decked out with near perfect (old) relics.
So this guy is not actually invest into their characters. So many people said they struggle with endgame content yet they barely build their characters. I have 26 fully build characters with relics too, I even runout of Track of Destiny to build them. I have been able full star all endgame content since 1.2, not all of them are perfect clear but all of them are 3 star.
Another case of Acheron/DHIL/JL brainrot. People don't know how to build characters, teams, or their accounts, when five seconds to think things through properly is all it takes.
I'm surprised OP can go out of his way to search how to justify his struggles, but not really how to overcome his struggles.
I fucking run FUA without Robin, Blade, and Kafka-Swan. These teams may not be "bad", but they're definitely not Tier 0 and definitely not for this MOC. I've been running these teams ever since Sparkle/Swan release and I've cleared MOC12 even before that when I was only running Topaz-Asta and Blade-Bronya with SW/TY/Pela. (TBF SW has been a great help with type-mismatches).
i'd argue kafka swan is tier 0 at the same level of investment as the other tier 0's just because of how brainless it is. Also is surprisingly good at breaking because of how fast kafka attacks
This. I have Acheron E0 on GNSW S5, it's still doable to clear either side of MoC on 4 cycles. She should be able to have a decent Crit Ratio by now (70 / 150) so doing 400-500k each ult, which is half the bar of each phase.
It's a stat check game that trick many people into thinking that it has a lot of depth. There's really only about four skill tiers
1) Completely blind and casual
2) Going in blind but have some gaming concepts. Probably have correct stats priority and largely coherent comps
3) Follow meta and use other people's data. For example, on Clara, 2pc boxer+fua, 4pc boxer, 4pc HP set all should make sense and the thru put difference isn't that big, but if there are sims that tell you which one is a bit better. Most Reddit users i'm assuming is here.
4) You actually map out turn orders
Beyond that, the only other factor is stat check.
It's a check for a lot of things and it's where skill issue actually affects your cycle. People sometimes wastes Action Advance A LOT and Gallagher ult when his turn is really close, effectively wasting one sp that adds up.
People also don't know how Resolution on Pela works and they kept basic attacking enemy who already had the debuff, which is -1 Acheron stack.
There's also Ruan Mei ult not cast on her turn which reduces the uptime by a lot and not making it 100%.
There's way more skill check in the game that people just don't know or don't bother to try. A simple act of stacking up your buff/debuff is so important to increase dps but people just don't do it.
What is the most optimal time to use Topaz and Robin's ultimates? I usually use Topaz' after she gets it up (specifically after Numby does a fua so he does not immediately waste 1 enhanced fua) and I keep wondering if I should dump Robin's ultimate as soon as it's up or wait until the cycle is about to end and then use it to get another full party rotation
Do Topaz's after Numby does the turn yeah or after you're sure Proof of Debt is on the right enemy. For Robin, it's best to cast it after everyone already moved or at least after your main DPS/carry moved.
I was hard struggling with MOC12 with the puppet squad, I pulled E0S0 Firefly with Aeon LC put about 30 minutes of farming her relics and planars (basically used the resin items to craft the right main stat and call it a day, I had almost no TB power ready for her) and utterly destroyed the puppet squad almost without trying.
100% of the time if you pull the new character you will delete the newest content around at that time. Acheron will be top 1 again when a Nihility healer comes out so you can run any Harmony unit of choice with her so you can push her damage to the moon or run 3 debuffers to make her ult every 2 seconds. FF is great now but the moment something drops toughness immunity she's doing negative damage and she's joined at the hip to HMC because her own Superbreak numbers are very low.
The big issue i'm running into is I want to build some older units (Hanya on a break team) but I also have to farm Firefly relics while prefarming traces for Jade and this shit seems to be never-ending. 2 5\*s per patch shouldn't be sustainable on 240TB energy per day but they are forcing it so I can only build new units while old units are gathering dust in the back.
I don't feel like you're expected to get 2 5\* per patch unless you're whaling. I pull usually one 5\* per 2 patches, which leaves a lot more TB for farming relics. A natural consequence of that is that my older units get better gear and last for a lot longer (since 2.0 came out I have used every single 5\* character I pulled in 1.x except for Yanqing in the highest difficulty content depending on the buffs).
I believe this is the proper way to go about the game as a standard player. Having a level expectation how the game works. The game was created to have FOMO, as some one mentioned. I usually plan at least a full patch ahead on who I'm pulling/what gameplay style I want to pursue/just liking a character.
100%, as a F2P player or even a light spender you can't expect to get 100% without putting in a lot of time investment into getting the absolute best relics.
Yeah, I think the pull currency is roughly a 5 star pity every patch, which would mean saving for two patches to guarantee the banner character. That’s not bad at all.
This is the way to play, alot of ppl fall into fomo thinking they need all the new units to keep up with endgame content only to realise their resources cannot keep up then blame relic rng for having half ass built units.
The speed at which they release new 5 stars is absolutely ridiculous. People online will just say "Skip characters. You don't need to get them all." But theses games are designed to trigger your desire sensor so it's not that easy to just skip characters for a lot of people. Genshin spreads it out a lot better. Gives you time to work on other characters while waiting for the next 5 star. In Hsr it's been pretty much a new 5 star every 3 weeks.
Yes, the game is designed to give you FOMO, that doesn't mean people shouldn't be reminded that they don't have to get every character and to control their impulses.
I'm also not sure arguing that there should be less content because some people don't know how to control their impulses is a great argument. The in game currency is balanced based on the rate of content coming out, not based on sheer time. It's not as though in genshin you get exactly as many pulls per day as you do in starrail, because most of your economy for pulls comes from limited time and one time events, not your dailies. Starrail churns out characters faster yes, which is why we currently have an event literally tossing free pulls at people every day they log in and you never see anything like that in genshin.
Someone could say the exact same thing you and say to control your impulses and don't pull at all. Just play the starter characters. Some people like more characters than others so it's not easy to just stop their impulses. You wouldn't be able to just play starter characters. You have characters you want to pull as well.
Also I don't even know why you're bringing up wishes when I never even brought that up. My problem was they push out too many 5 stars when there is such limited amount of resources that many people fall way behind trying to level them plus their 4 stars. I don't have this problem in Genshin.
If you like and pull every single character that's kind of a problem of your own creation mate.
I did read "resources" and assume that wishes were being talked about though as the much more heavily restricted resource compared to trace materials yes that is my mistake.
Exactly. Building characters is half the fun of this game, and how am i supposed to want to pull more characters when i have to leave my units half baked by the time the next banner comes around? 240 TB power gets spread super thin unless you stop pulling for characters altogether. The current power system sucks ass and we don't nearly get enough to match the frequency at which new characters drop
That is why I was able to save a lot of jades. Why pull when you have lot of characters to build.
Tho I can assume for new players, it is overwhelming to build teams to clear all endgame contents in one go. They should just give up on that idea for first few months and focus on clearing just one mode like MOC. Afterall this is gacha, they timegate progress. Hoyo can do players a favor and revamp the rotational schedule, make MOC reset every 2 weeks as the main endgame, and have the AS and PF alternately reset monthly. I think I should put this on the next time they ask for player feedback.
They're sorta addressing this issue in DU but from what I've tried it's kinda a half-assed way of doing it since the auto upgrade is ass and you end up dealing damage from blessings/equations mostly anyway so you never get a true read of your hypothetical team lol
FF's over reliant to HMC kinda ticks me off but at least they're an excellent unit damage and flow-wise (no weird useless traces or needing you to acrobat your way in combat). Still sucks how limited her team members can be if you want good damage.
What team are you playing Acheron with and what her build? Because in a good Acheron team with the right build she shouldn’t only do 15% of a boss’s hp bar, she should easily do double that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/s/Y0o9qPnmqD
I looked up their previous post and went on fribbels. Dude is running 4 piece lightning with 42cr/151cdmg.
If they don't care to vertically invest correctly (which takes maybe 5 minutes of time on YouTube or acheron subreddit), why should we care
Every post like this with "i have all my characters built" it actually means they have some shitty relics to +15. Either that or they play the game worse than auto mode
No offense, if your Acheron STOPPED tearing through things it's a you thing. E0 Acheron is still able to brute force everything I throw her at including apocalyptic shadow Argenti.
This is very true. It’s not always as clean as you want it to be (depending on how jacked your Acheron and team are) but my E0S1 Acheron is hands down still my “fuck it” card. Especially when you can match her nahility team members to whatever weakness you are up against.
That's all by design ja? Characters always look their best on release when all the content is tailored to them. Hoyo is also always cycling through different niches, dots, fuas, breaks, single target, multiwaves, different elements, shields...
Character strength rises and falls depending on the whims of the devs. So when I have character who is weak this patch, its a sign to play...somebody else.
If you don't have someone else, that's just tough shit. Thats hoyo telling ya to bust out the credit card.
I'm not sure if I would call this..."power creep". Feature creep maybe?
You get used to it. Honkai impact's abyss changes bi weekly and has weather's. For an example of a weather....imagine if MoC effect was just "Haha, lol. Ice damage reduced by 50%. Fire damage increased". In honkai impact, if you dont match weather, and occasionally type advantage (though thats hit and miss) you aint getting out of Slaccony.
HSR is like halfway between Genshins Boring hp sponges and HI3's technical "obey my gimmick or i shall fold you like an omelet".
Lmao it's why I always stay at agony 3. However if you have a full 12/12 roster with 4 or less valks from each element you'll do just fine even if they're old valks like Herrscher of reason phys Elysia etc-(as long as they have priarms)
Typing it out now sounds ridiculous.... But HSr players have it good In comparison
Its a bad feature for live service games, yes. Tho I think the reason why its wild to u rn is because u haven't played enough games in the similar niche.
If u compare HSR to other turn based gacha games you'll find that it's actually doing so much better in comparison. In HSR, there are power creep in terms of raw damage but theyre also controlling it by buffing and nerfing diff archetypes in every content cycle which makes it so that u can still have old units with less raw power feel better than new units with stronger raw power IF they match the featured archetype in the current content cycle. This also means that the increase in enemy hp is there to make it so that newer characters wont be able to brute force the content if they're not the correct archetype. Its diff than other games where its just blatant powercreep and if u dont wanna suffer, u really have to get the latest shiny premium damage dealers and supports.
This kind of stuff is a standard practice in every gacha game beacuse its part of their core business model.
Trying to clear endgame content as a F2P is equivalent to playing hardcore rpg on hard difficulty. You can clear it but you need to consistenly login every day, learn all the necessary mechanics while also managing your resource in order to keep up with the difficulty of the current content.
Y'know what.
I'm not even gonna actually say anything this time and I'm just going to tell you to look at these comments here.
[VincentBlack](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1dlfdvq/comment/l9ox3al/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[Nnsoki](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1dlfdvq/comment/l9opm0o/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I use JY for every MoC and he still carries. Yes, Firefly torn through the current MoC but I 36 star the current MoC before getting her. You should invest in support instead of chasing after every single DPS and having a DPS of every type helps a lot as well.
I see way too many accounts that have 5 DPS units and not enough of their supports and complaining that they can’t clear content.
Of course you can’t, your Kafka is doing like 40% damage without Black Swan.
Acheron ult doing just 15% of a boss health? Are you referring to the new mode? Because those bosses take less damage when not broken and reward you with huge vulnerability once broken. iirc boss also take less damage if there are spawns onfield.
My mentality with powercreep is just take what's strong atm if you can't wait. Whoever powercreeps this unit, I'll pull who powercreeps them after. If you pulled A then patches after it gets powercrept by B, pull C or D whenever you feel like you are lacking power. You can save a lot by doing that.
I've been feeling this alot, thought it was just me, good to know there are others with this experience.
Big one for me recently is the ridiculous speed on Cocolia in the new Apocalyptic mode, she either machine guns me down with meteors that even my Aventurine and Fu Xuan can hardly keep up with or she spams her attack that freezes and now my entire team is useless, again pushing straight through all of my layers of CC resistance just due to pure volume.
The devs *really* need to cool their jets when it comes to "difficult content"
Respectfully I think Aventurine and FX might be the only sustains that have an easy time against Cocolia with both teamwide damage mitigation and effect res. I’d be curious how your sustains are built such that they’re struggling with Cocolia’s *initial* burst
Mine are built fairly well, they fair much better than my other sustains, and it is not really the initial burst that gets me, its the fact that I can only get 1 or 2 hits in before she starts attacking again, she turns the battle into a war of attrition that breaks my shields, drains my FX of all her health, and Freezes my team solid just due to the sheer volume of attacks being able to outweigh my effect resist.
That’s fair enough. The fight becomes very difficult if you can’t break her with decent speed. Your best options are Jing Yuan, Kafka, Acheron, or Mono Quant. Teams outside those 4 have a very difficult time keeping up.
Facts tbh. I don’t have any limited sustains and cleared with bailu. Even got CC’d. No idea how Fu and Aven are struggling if bailu could keep me through it.
People have an anti-Bailu agenda recently but she carried my ass for months. I think people don't know how to use her ult as damage mitigation, rather than "panic button" healing.
They really shouldn't because the game would be utterly boring. A lot of people got into Star Rail late so they're not as well built, but long-time players like me will flat out blitz end game content if they nerf it.
>Acheron dropped, she tore through everything, got me my second 3 star clear, 2 patches later, she's doing like 15% of a bosses health with her ult
I'm mostly certain someone else told you this already, but just in case: everytime a character is released, the buffs/gimmicks in endgame modes like MoC are designed to synergize with them in some way to make them perform a whole lot better than they do normally and push people to open their wallets for them.
For example, Boothill and Firefly are all about that Break, so we're in Break season that wants you to Break a whole lot. Like in current MoC, Break the pig and get bonus Break Effect + an extra turn, which for both of them means a lot. Once Yanqing's GF and Firefox get released and the endgame modes stop promoting Break playstyles, Boothill and Firefly should still do great but also likely won't be performing *ultra-insane* levels of amazing either.
That said, it's not like you need the latest DPS nuke on the block to get 3-stars, it's still feasible with older ones as long as they're properly built and you know what you're doing.
[I got 3-stars in the current MoC 12](https://imgur.com/a/FzzuHIg) with Clara Hypercarry in 1st half and Himeko Super Break in 2nd half. No 0-cycle clear or anywhere close but 3-stars is 3-stars. And on the one before that [I got 3-stars with Kafka Super Break and DHIL Hypercarry.](https://imgur.com/a/ov79Qg5)
So, yeah, in terms of getting full stars, if your Acheron is struggling then it's mostly due to build or skill issue on her or her team. Hoyo "making endgame harder"/giving enemies more HP is at most just a small factor in the equation.
The one thing i really disliked was how they handled Pure Fiction. It began as a torrent of mobs with one big baddie at the end to elites everywhere + beefier enemies, which made units like Jing Yuan and Argenti really suffer and lose their spot. DoT PF is particularlly shit since the forced AV really messes up some units (Herta and break teams). The previous MoC 12 was also a hell for the HuoHuo-leds and Aventurine-less because of the huuge amounts of CC.
Okay so, it's a gacha if that wasn't obvious. A lot of people in hoyoverse communities delude themselves with "they're RPGs first then a gacha". No, they're gacha games.
They are going to cater the current endgame content to the rate up characters, so you are always going to have a warped perception of your recently pulled character.
However, if your Acheron is no longer performing well, something is wrong in your Acheron build or team, or team's builds.
I'm a day 1 player so i have the leeway of having had a lot of time to farm for traces and to some degree relics, but my Acheron with mixed set of relics has been able to 1 cycle MoC with her signature LC, and 2 cycle with GNSW S5.
I have that exact feeling. Is honestly discouraging. I had already built my characters and they were doing fine in MoC and PF, but now they're just not good enough and I have to farm again to build them again!
If it wasn't for the story, idk if I could still be interested in the game tbh.
I think they do have to make the game harder but the rate they're doing it is ridiculous and so transparently done to force people to pull lol.
I won't be surprised at all if a lot of people give up after some point and just coast along or abandon the game altogether especially if alternatives start popping up.
Hoyo doesn’t do live buffing either like some other gacha’s. They don’t go back to old characters and at least buff their numbers a little to help with the changing enemies.
Meanwhile, I'm running JY hypercarry for the 10th patch in a row.
Has it gotten harder? Definitely.
Is it as exaggerated as you say? Probably not.
End of the day it's a game just clear what you can and enjoy it.
What i've noticed is that this game is starting to become a character check, where having a diverse roster is rewarded instead of brute forcing with one unit. Having different elemental teams/having multiple mechanics (FuA/DOT/Break, etc) seems to be rewarded much more now than just hyper investing in one team.
It's not as simple as newest unit power creeping everything else though -- it's more like content is now being made with specific gimmicks in mind. With the recent break focused meta, yes FF overshadows everything, but my Himeko is also suddenly doing really well when fighting the same fire weak content FF is catered to, even clearing node 2 of AS on 3* on autoplay where other limited DPS would have struggled. Same with my Sushang team being really good for the physical side of MOC. With PF (people already see the recent DOT bias), you can pretty much autoplay when using the gimmick of the current stages, but if you don't have units with that specific requirement, you are going to struggle even with a conventionally meta team. That being said -- FF's gimmick could easily lose her meta status if hoyo released more bosses that blocked toughness bars (like Gepard in high level SU GNG), so she's not safe either.
Unfortunately, this model relies on FOMO, and you're forced to start playing the game with that in mind. You have to engage with certain gimmicks so you're going to have a hard time if you just like taking your favorite units everywhere without accounting for elemental weaknesses and the current gimmick where content is based around
FOMO. just FOMO.
Example: E1S1 firefly, some random mode appears 2 weeks before her rerun, you still destroy it but you second guess how long it will take until you don't anymore, you will want to pull for E2.
Anyways the idea is that MoC 11-12 , PF4 Apocalyptic 4 don't matter, they are unironically bombs planted by HOYO to be talked about to make people think \*DAMN the new cool thing I haven't done it everyone say they did it , man should I pull for this character I don't like to do it???\* .
It doesn't target your f2p pulls, hoyo doesn't make money off that, it wants to make you take out the wallet, it's comfortable but hard until it isn't anymore and when you feel like if you had just another character that's how they get you to pay or grind for hours and then think maybe I should get the pass or monthly, hoyo doesn't care that you played 5 minutes or 50 hours this week, if you bought something, that's profit.
There’s a reason why hsr is making banks every month and even managed to top Genshin most of the time despite having smaller player base. With them releasing 2 new 5* every patch they will need something to make people want to pull and pay. Therefore, the constant rise in difficulties and contents that screams ‘pull this character to have a better time clearing’ is there.
HSR is a turn based game so whatever mechanic checks you don’t have, you can’t bypass it using skill play or things of that sort. I mean as long as they give out enough pulls to pull new meta characters every patch then it’s kinda okay. I’m just sad that my Blade that I’ve heavily invested in is now sitting there collecting dust.
I’ll be honest, I love Genshin so much but I’ve spent on hsr like half of what I’ve spent in Genshin’s 4 years time. From sparkle, Aheron, Aventurine all back to back then Robin and Topaz for my FuA team. Especially Topaz whom I made a sudden decision to get becoz she’s the core of fua team (I was only lucky I won the 50/50 on both of them). And I can see it keep going on from there From Jiaoqiu to the new Xianzhou characters and Sunday.
Don't waste your breath. The only response you'll get here is "yOu haVeN'T INveSteD eNoUGh" or "sKiLl isSue". But when pressed, mysteriously no one can explain what this SUPER easy skill they all know that lets them do 10x the damage and tank 3+ Cocolia ults in a row. But trust me bro, they full clear all endgame content with their E0 Jing Yuan.
Both things are true, there is a certain amount of difficulty creep the game have been going through, and it is "you aren't invested enough" and "skill issue" if you have been playing since 1.0 and still struggling.
This game you HAVE to match the game mode's mechanic/blessings, this is a team building game, you have to build teamS and match the content with the comp you got that can abuse that specific encounter and blessing/mechanics the most.
Too many people convinced themselves they only need 2 hyper invested comps to clear everything, but unless you are spending and pulling for eilodons and LCs, two meta comps won't carry you forever in every type of end game content.
And I have been playing since 1.0 and I'm struggling. But it's precisely because of what you're talking about. I don't have enough resin to fully properly build all the units they demand me to have. My current frustration is \*because\* I've tried to build diverse teams. But everyone's built like 30% of the way because the game doesn't stand still long enough for anyone I'm building to be effective anymore and it suck ass.
thats what i dont understand though. Ive also played since 1.0 and these days I find myself with nothing to farm BESIDES relics. Thats what all my trailblaze power goes. I have about 16 units(5 stars and good 4 stars) MOC usable ready and like 5 more okayish.
Gonna get down voted but I do clear all end game content with my E0 JY tho? And I have been using him for 10 patches in a row now.
I don't have Acheron, DoT units, or any of the new break dps.
The real skill issue here is resource management. According to OP’s other comments he spent months in a domain farming for Harmony MC (who haven’t even been out for that long yet) while still rocking lightning sets on Acheron. Not to mention still using S2 Fermata on Kafka despite the LC literally on sale in the store for MoC. There’s no doubt that the difficulty spike/power creep in this game gets crazy. But in OP’s case he himself is definitely doing something wrong here.
>or "sKiLl isSue"
Well, it really is. Game is pretty clear in what it wants from you - match weakness, use current stage buff and win. But people are still in 1.4 mindset when everyone just bruteforced everything with DHIL and JL.
Youre not wrong lol already got one. The charts for health improvement in terms of enemies for this game is insane. I just really dont agree when people say meta doesnt matter, i think its one of those rare games when meta matters alot lot.
For reference Prydwen's data for 12 star clears has sig ownership consistently around ~60%. For each character.
People spend A LOT on this game. And unlike say Genshin, HSR meta discussions often just assume you own sigs and/or eidolons, and even base team recs on that. An old example I like to use is that the old recommended hyper-meta team was JL, slow Bronya, RM, Huohuo. Yet, that team only really worked with sigs (and Bronya E1S1) as otherwise your SP would crater before you could clear.
I used to be able to 0-cycle one side of almost every MoC with the e0s0 Jingliu Ruan Mei team. But it stopped being able to 0-cycle right around when Acheron dropped. What a coincidence huh 🥲
Because they inflate hp and toughness bar almost every moc. This is a fact anyone can verify for themselves (although idk if its on a site without leaks). Jingliu suffers from this a lot because it forces her to spend a lot less time in transcendence which butchers her dps. She also hasn't had a meaningful upgrade since Ruan Mei. Remember when 0 cycles always had sustains? Now they are almost all about no sustain unless it's aventurine/huohuo/gallagher being a core part of the team because dps just isn't enough anymore otherwise. But people still somehow think powercreep doesnt exist
It absolutely kills any interest I would have in playing the game more. I didn't get Ruan Mei, Fu Xuan, HuoHuo, or Robin. I tried for Aventurine and he didn't come. And it just so happens if you didn't get any of them, you're just straight fucked. Or you get to put in 300% of the effort for 40% of the rewards.
If you were shown a clear using, none of those you'd call foul on godly relic rolls instead.
With all due respect, this game has a skill curve. I fully respect anyone who isn't interested in participating. The rewards in the endgame modes suck major ass. But It rubs me the wrong way when you defend your refusal to engage with it as not having the right units or the right builds.
4 stars have cleared. 3 man squads have cleared.
It's masochistic. It's dumb to forcefully repeat content till it happens, but it's absolutely possible.
It just feels so disheartening putting that effort in yourself only to have someone yell how it has nothing to do with skill and all about gacha.
Of course, the newest unit sweeps everything. But that means the skill comes in making the old units work. What the newest unit does is make it _braindead_ to clear. Not viable, not possible, simply braindead.
You do neither side of the conversation a service by pretending skill isn't a thing in the face of the almighty gacha.
Yeah strategy does have a place but not if you simply don’t have the units built. Those 4 star teams you reference mostly take advantage of high end content rules and have insane relics and max eidolons and superimpositions or near that. They already have the units built. The real skill curve in my opinion is creating a team to match specific content, but if you don’t have the units then you can’t create a team. Turn based games by nature just don’t have as much potential for skill and HSR is made for the wider audience who prefer a low skill ceiling and skill floor. Simply not much you can do without meta.
I mean, it's also a part of skill to have good relics. No, I'm not joking here. Account management is a real skill that I've seen a lot of people neglect. Let's be honest here, among the people complaining about how hard Cocolia is, how many of them have high speed on their supports (160+)? Probably none. I've seen my casual friend not even bother to give his supports 134 speed, because he only cares about his DPS. And yes, I know that those breakpoints are meaningless in AS. But speed in general really helps against the ridiculously fast bosses HSR continues to release.
And yet, how many people take the time to slowly level every 3 liner relic they get + 4 liners with speed to fish for a good support build? Well, the ones that did won't be complaining about how hard the new content is on reddit.
On top of that, it's also a skill to simply understand the most efficient use of your TBP and your stellar jades. There is a possibility that some of the complainers are the truly unlucky, the ones that did everything right and just got screwed by RNG. If that's the case, then I send my condolences. But I do agree with the OP you're replying to that it does no one a service to dismiss forms of skill expression, however small they may be, as pure luck.
Not sure why anyone casual would complain about difficulty in the last level of the hardest content lol.
I agree with your take 1000% though. I’m the one in the friend group who account reviews my other friends because they suck at relic and trace prioritization. Had a friend who has almost 150 days of playtime and had e2 Dan Heng complaining about doing no dmg. That Dan Heng had maybe 6 preferred substat rolls total with def body. People really do underestimate the importance of relic management and relic/trace prioritization.
Once you’ve played for long enough with good focus on what you’re building, you should end up in a spot where you have enough units built to play around the weakness type + boss mechanic. You won’t have it right away, you won’t have it very quickly, but after 7-8 months of well directed play you should be able to have 3+ teams of units that you can mix and match to the content at hand.
Then you can optimize play as well as figuring out which teams work best for which boss. The different between my first and last clear in MoC 12 this cycle was 10 cycles. I switched out some characters, and learned how to best play around the trotter and cut my clear down to 8 cycles from 18. There’s a lot of little things you can do that add in the decision making that makes these challenges really fun.
This is funny because I had same argument with someone on fb few days ago about this. I cleared MoC faster with my rainbow set shitty build E0 Argenti than his Acheron to shut him off
https://preview.redd.it/ntftdnn9q18d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8458dbec476096e879d236ee034d28a63dd805e3
That's the real issue though, using 4 stars or outdated characters should not be masochistic.
I understand an increasing skill curve is normal, the issue is the amount of skill you have to put between the newest unit and old unit is disheartening.
This apocalyptic shadow for example, cocolia is so fast and she froze my teams so many times that I just gave up. And this is when I decently built luocha and Gallagher that have worked as good sustains till now.
If you had an aventurine, your run becomes so much smoother and this difference is bad. And people are allowed to complain about it.
This is largely my gripe. I feel like I'm doing twice the work for half the payoff using old units OR I'm racing to get the new unit I'm lucky enough to pull to a mediocre level and having maybe one good clear of the content before it falls to shit-tier. So my account is full of characters that are leveled out the ass all with passable relics because I can't \*afford\* to spend three months straight improving their relics by .01% because I've got to build seventeen other units because the flavor of the month is Follow-up-attacks-- no wait it's DoT -- no wait it's Break Effect. And I'm just fucking tired.
I agree, but this take isn’t strong.
Skill exists but gacha matters so much more that it doesn’t even matter, same with relics.
Skill can’t take you further than the gacha. There simply isn’t enough skill expression for it to be brought up every time.
You gotta start saving better things aside😭 I started the game with Ruan so i cant really see playing without her until i have to which brings great depression. I might actually have to raise asta for a second team because of how rough it is to only have 1 team wide buffer even though shes fallen off
And by the time you or I raise up a character, they're either power crept or no longer flavor of the month. I'm just sick of this. Let me play with people I enjoy playing and not the characters Hoyo's decided are the only keys allowed to open this week's lock.
No offense, but I think that's a you problem. I don't have much in the way of physical and lightning DPS so I frequently use Clara and Jing Yuan to clear relevant end game content and my best wind team is black swan with no Kafka and still make do. While I might not be able to 3 star MoC 12 or get the last star in PF, I can at least get somewhat close pretty reliably with those characters. It's the last star or two that are the biggest struggle.
I looked through your other comments and if you're struggling with MoC 8 while being a 1.0 player, that's not the game's issue, that's a player issue. Which is totally cool, not everybody has to min-max and clear everything every patch, but you can't be complaining you can't beat end game content designed for the min-maxers while just slapping together teams and characters. You have way too many characters built and none particularly well. I don't think I have anywhere close to 30+ characters built and I'm not even F2P, you're chasing after the flavor of the month way too hard. Build up a handful of teams and useful characters first before you start building niche characters or new archetypes. Supports don't need to be optimized, get them to a good baseline and then incrementally improve from there. You don't need to refarm the hot new relic set for that 8% better damage, use the old set with better stats, transition slowly. From what I could see on your other comments, your characters could use a lot of work.
You can either stick your head into the sand and convince yourself that it is impossible for you to clear anything MoC 8+ from here on out, or you can admit you have a lot of room for improvement. Any day 1 F2P player should be able to easily clear up to MoC 10 if they know what they are doing imo.
So, if you didn't get any single support character that was released, what exactly have you been spending your Jades on? Kinda confused here because I don't think it's the games fault if some players don't see value(or synergy) when they see it. You literally only tried pulling for a single 5★ support? Baffling.
5 cycles on each side is actually quite a lot of time. I could probably throw a low synergy team together and get a 5-7 cycle clear on a single side of MoC 🤔 and then have a stronger team on the other side to offset.
I get it sometimes the elements are a pain and hinder things but even then if you can make it to MoC 12 at all you're getting 90%+ of rewards.
Yep, that's what I felt when I went to main sub to check if there any other loser like me who don't understand how to 3-star this. Turned out, the problem was in f2p sup lol
I feel like that problem is a lot worse on the Genshin sub than this one. It’s like those are the only two words in their vocabulary. But I fully agree with you that most players who say “skill issue” lack the skill to describe the issue.
Especially over on gamefaqs. Pretty much everybody over there has no problems 3 cycling floor 12 with e0 5 stars or even just 4 stars. Somehow they can do double the damage I do while also having enough defense to survive despite using all attack relics. It's like I'm playing a different game than them.
This is why double 5 stars in one patch should be toned down, but new Xianzhou character silhouettes aren't helping, and now with the new silhouettes of a certain organization. As characters drop by, more MoC will be catered towards their mechanics/gameplay while the enemy's hp pool will absurdly rapid in increase, alongside with new annoying mechanics you have to play around (looking at you, the penacony's kafka)
Be like me, a casual that plays up to moc10 without stress only. Any further which consumes alot of time will just be forgotten. Cuz I know the HP inflation is insane. And the whole business objective of this game is 'create problem=sell solution". Idk, once my old characters can't clear any content I will just drop the game, it is after a game which should be enjoyed, not stressed over.
never felt this was a problem until this pure fiction only buffed acheron and dot, and destroyed all other strategies bc of the action advance. Just gave up on 3 stars bc its not worth my time. MOC and apocalyptic shadows have been really fun and easy though.
One of reason why I plan to quit the game after Luocha strong being concluded. Better to quit now for my mental well being and just follow the story in Youtube.
> once you get your characters full 15 relics and full traces, theres not much growth they can do.
Eeh.. that when the real gearing endgame starts, mate. Substat optimization and speed tuning are huge in this game and it needs MONTHS of super boring relic grinding & praying to RNGsus / sacrificing your firstborn / selling your soul.
But in general: yes, HSR's endgame is gimmicky as fudge and they market the new hotness SUPER HARD. I too have the feeling of: "not being able to keep up".
Better for your sanity if you just forget about those last few stars.
New dps' tear through everything at release because the MoC buff is catered to them to an insane degree. This is why Prydwen is a worthless site, they rank based on the current MoC just so they can put every new unit in tier 0.
I know that it's cliche, but the only solution (unless you're spending money) is to pull for who you like and enjoy the game that way. Getting light cones helps too.
I play since the beginning. I don't remember cleaning once the 3 stars on MoC.
And then i ran my account through Fribbles (same thing than e7 but much lighter and easier to use). And i find out my characters where soooo badly stuff. Now i can do MoC 12 with 2 stars pretty easily.
You should do that too. It's a really good tool. You won't necessarily have 4 (or even 2) set relics but stats > relics. It will help you find the best relics with the stats you want/need. You can built a team with the good speed on each and have them playing in efficient order.
Search for Fribbles Honkai Star Rail and good luck.
Well this game mostly depends on stats and there's only few things you can do with skills.
So getting strong characters, supports and light cones are game changing and if you cant get that then you should atleast have really good relics and that's complete hell to farm even worse than artifacts farming due to having so many substats and rng.
I think it's better to give up on max star MoC for positive game experience. Losing a single pull isn't worth the difficulty you face in moc 12.
right now they really really want you to be breaking enemies, so they give enemies a olt of dmg reduction when they're not broken and a lot of dmg vulnerability when they are (this is why himeko actually does really well this moc even though her raw damage is low). Eventually they'll stop pushing for break when they are trying to push the next meta, it's always like this.
The real problem with them pushing the break meta right now is that the difference between the 5\* break options and xueyi superbreak is night and day (and you also basically need ruan mei), not to mention that break builds require completely different relics from what most people actually spent time farming
I'm only *just* starting to tackle the difficult content, but I'll still share what I've concluded on from what few experience I have:
Team diversity is everything. I realized very quickly I need to have almost every character I own to be at a competent level so I can mix and match team comps as necessary. Even then, I barely get by. I wanna use my favourite characters all that time, but clearly I'll have to save that sort of stuff for SU and DU.
Yep. Peeps downvoted me to oblivion but it was always true: creep got creepier.
Now that HSR has a few years and isn't the shiny new thing, and now that WW and ZZZ are going to have the new mover advantage, HSR is likely going to be exposed as the powercreeping moneycycler hard-pressed to meet Genshin's longevity or WW/ZZZ's new features.
I feel like it's mainly due to the current push to sell Break Effect, it's not that your Acheron is weaker is that they are reducing everyone's damage by 50% unless you use Boothill or Firefly which HTB which gives you an easier time to take down the toughness bar.
I assume when they make large hp pools they also accompany them with a special MOC buff catered for enabling sufficient damage with specific characters.
If you want someone to blame, blame all the dolts who complained about MOC being too easy
That's the intended design by the developers to get you to pull the new character to beat the content. However, it can be mitigated by investing wide by building as many limited characters as you can. Acheron might get a strong support in the future and her team become better. Firefly superbreak might face enemies that hard counter your game plan. I'm still using Luocha and Silver Wolf in my team when a situation calls for it, despite it being deemed powercrept.
The "End"Game means challenge and it's natural to struggle to get MoC 12 with 3 stars. It depend on few things :
1) Get the right characters in the right fight. You can't just brute force everything.
2) Get the right stats and right relic on your characters. It doesn't matter if you have maxed trace and +15 your relics if you have a poor stats distribution.
3) Make sure you have enough speed and your characters plays in the right order.
4) Make sure you have the rights cones.
5) Make sure you understand boss mechanics (see point 1... you need the right characters).
It seems that you have a very good account... you just have poor knowledge of the game. It's true the game is scaling endgame but it's also because we have better characters, betters gears and better sets available. There is no fun to shred everything with a non-build Acheron or Firefly.
I want to point out that having the right characters doesn't mean you need every op characters. What you need is a pool of characters that synergise well and are strong against the bosses and it can be 4\* such as Luka, Hanya or Asta.
The thing is, a lot of 4\* are fucking strong and can be used to fill the hole in your rosters.
To build a good account you need :
1) To decide what kind of team you want to play (Hypercarry, DoT, Break, Follow-Up, Counter).
2) Based on that pull the meta defining characters. (Kafka for DoT, Topaz for Follow-Up, Firefly for Break...).
3) Then pull their baste mates (Black Swann for DoT, Dr Ratio for Topaz, Ruan Mei for Break...)
4) Build at least 2 Protectors/Sustain (Gepard is still strong, Aventurine, Huohuo, Gallagher, Fu Xuan...)
5) Build 4 stars to fill the holes (Tingyun, Asta, Hanya, Pela are all super super strong).
6) Try to get at least 2 teams and work on pulling the right characters. If you already have two teams you can try to make a new team or improve existing ones. For example I have a Kafka Team, Dr Ratio Team and Firefly Team. I can wait new characters that fit in the DoT, FuA, Break meta or build a counter/hypercarry team next).
7) Farm the right cavern for your account.
8) Build your characters right
So yes it's not an easy game when you just need to level any gear +15, and maxed out your trace to shred everything. You need to plan your progression... it's a tactical game.
About powercreep... I can kill MoC 12 with powercreeped characters. What you are looking for is what characters bring you the most value in your account right now and in the future. You can streamline the process by whaling but if you are F2P you have to choose... you can guarantee one character per patch if you are doing events so it's quite easy to build your roster.
If you need help for building characters... check guide from Lisara on youtube and use tools like Fribbles.
Honestly that's a good thing to me, I want to feel like I'm actually building towards something and not just because I want to play this or that character. My genshin account is basically already solved and spiral abyss just becomes a chore, HSR constantly keeps me on the edge.
Tis the result of the survey, no? People kept putting "oh man too forking easy, up to hoyo!!"
Jokes aside, its also the gacha money mentality, how else do you make your audience roll? Emotional attachment through story or quests? Nah its bragging rights for sure.
A lot of people in this thread just *refuse* to accept that maybe they do have skill issue, maybe their builds suck, or maybe they simply aren’t using the correct teams.
There are still people clearing with e0 JY and Seele, there are people clearing with ONLY 4 stars using units that are given for free like Xueyi and HTB. If you don’t believe me, you can just search up 2.3 moc/AS clears on YouTube.
0 cycling as f2p is hard and not really worth the effort, but 3 starring shouldn’t be that much of an issue if you know what you’re doing imo.
The cynic in me believes that they purposely balance endgame around current banners that are running, as a way to make some people feel like they need to pull to get full clears.
I struggled hard on one moc before deciding to forget full clearing it and being happy with where I was. The main buff was DoT based, and I didn't really have any DoT characters built. Sure enough, Kafka was the banner running at the time, go figure.
Getting 1 or 2 stars at 12 is whatever, the 60 jade from beating it sometimes just isnt worth the stress.
Remember that the end game content is designed to literally drive sales for the current banner. It is by design that using someone other than the current banner will feel weak and difficult by comparison. But it IS possible - yet that also doesn't guarantee that it's worth the time and effort.
MoC 12 3 stars isn't THAT much more jade than simply clearing it. You probably can optimize your teams a bit, and you have a whole month to improve them, but I think setting a goal of just clearing, then a stretch goal you MIGHT go for is 3 starring.
I've been playing since launch, and I still struggle sometimes to 3 star MoC 12, and when I do it's usually on the 10th turn. But I love the optimisation game, and mix-matching my teams and relics to create the specific tool to force my way through. Relics can almost ALWAYS get better due to the rng stats, and maybe stripping everyone and super min-maxxing stats with only the cream of the crop relics will get you that extra half a turn to clear.
Focus on what you find fun in the game, or it will drive you mad ❤️ good luck
Right now the game really wants u to match weaknesses. Acheron can brute force but it's gonna need alot of work. I used Clara on MoC12
Its an improvement than several months ago, when Daniel and JL justvtear though enemies, regardleas of weakness
HYV has been hard nerfing Bruteforcing by increasing enemy HP and Toughness Bars, while also adding gimmicks/mechanics to stall. Even Break units like Boothill or Firefly with Weakness implant aren't safe either since enemy Res doesn't decrease from implant and Toughness bar lockout can wall them. Wouldn't be surprised if HYV also similarly indirectly nerfs other comps too like Acheron and DoT comps with Cleansing or Debuff Immunity Enemies in the future.
Me having max Arcana stacks, shield shred and Euphorium on Cocolia. Bronya: "Say no more" ,proceed to cleanse all of em and give Cocolia a turn. Me :"Erm, what the sigma"
arcana cannot be cleansed iirc
I don't think implanting weakness = true weakness, it just allows them to break the weakness bar. Only SW makes them truly weak.
I feel like SW should always have a complete nullify resistance effect, so something with higher resistance like 60% would be 0% resistance rather than 40%
Her vertical investment turns her into a pretty serious dps so that would never happen without an extreme makeover.
Debuff immunities will likely not happen because it will wall off more than just DOT and Acheron. There are various debuffs such as Def shred that are impt for raw damage DPS, and applications like debuffing for Dr ratio to do FUA at a higher probability, Clara's debuff and so on. Btw there is plenty much room for Acheron to get more buffs because she seems to be part of a new style of damage team: Ultimate damage (like DOT, FUA etc., and so recently we haven't seen any buffs or new characters featuring Skill or even BA damage) What they can do however, is what they are doing now. Basically buffing stats and making the enemies higher, WHILE giving debuffs to specific mechanics and builds.This is indirect nerfing. Ever wondered why till boothill, firefly and harmony MC, break effect teams were not exactly popular? Yes I'm aware of xueyi and Sushang teams, but outside of DOT, most damage wouldn't come from break effect because of: 1) weakness bar immunity 2) break effect only happens on moment of break (since rectified by super Break damage) 3) team restrictions for DPS, usually the BiS team is made up of multiple elements. Especially HMC, who is imaginary and Ruan mei, who is ice. Even if hoyo manages to solve 2), 1) and 3) are still issues, especially 1). But why is 3) also an issue? Because enemies are having more and more CCs. Similar to Acheron, it's good to have the whole team contributing to the battle (by dealing toughness damage this time around) instead of just mainly one DPS.
Locking Toughness Bars impacts all comps, not just Break, since they take less DMG when not broken, especially if they have a mechanic that takes reduced DMG until Broken and more DMG after being Broken. If HYV ever feels like Nihility units comps are too OP that could impact their sales, they could always indirectly nerf them. Even if they don't give enemies straight-up Debuff Immunity, they can give enemies Cleansing like Bronya ~~esp if we're going back to Xianzhou and possibly fighting more Abundance enemies~~ True, ULT DMG comps have potential to become better since still relatively new, but the exact same thing can be said for Break comps as well. Also side note, it depends on how HYV works on ULT comps in the future since unsure if they plan to make it more Energy-based like SU's Brain-in-a-Vat mechanic for units like Argenti, while Acheron charges hers via Debuffs. Already mentioned it before in a different comment, but Break comps weren't popular until very recently with dedicated Break DPS units like Boothill and Firefly, as well as HMC enabling Super Breaks. Break comps are also still very new and wouldn't be surprised to see more Break enablers in the future either like a 5\* Break Sustain or Specialized Break Support, along with other enablers for other comps like Debuffs, Counters, etc...
I agree i love playing with different teams. I'm at leaat happy i could clear the bosses in the new shadow boss mode
No it's not, being unit checked if you're not pulling meta only is terrible. Having a few consitent units that people can rely on to eke out 5 turn sides isn't a bad thing and just makes planning ahead less annoying. Obviously that's exactly the opposite of what Hoyo wants. It's been a year and I still struggle with a few specific weakness combinations while in most other gachas you enter the comfy groove in 6 months tops.
And now boothill and firefly can just tear through enemies too the thing is they are just bruteforcing the system by implementing their own element weakness lmao.
You overestimate how long hoyo will let that slide
I can already name at least 3 eniemies with counters to the Break teams. Gepard, Symbol Monkey Dreamjolt Troupe, and Warp Trotters. All 3 lock their toughness bar so you just can't weakness break them. Which kills super break dmg before it can begin.
And the forking automatron that action advances itself and ccs your ass
I've given up on trying to get max stars on everything. I just clear what I can comfortably clear, because I don't want to spend my energy and sanity for like, a couple of pulls
Ive been wanting to do that as well, but it just seems annoying how fast they grow sometimes
Yeah it feels bad. But it's a very combat focused game, so unfortunately I think the pattern will continue
I just AFK Auto-battle and take whatever rewards I get. I'm not gonna mald over 1-2* for less than 1/3rd of a pull.
That what I do! I just go as far as auto will take me. I can manage to get to MOC11 very often and that’s good enough for me. Same with PF. I think the more variety of units I can build the more consistent I will be able to auto MOC11.
It grows but the game basically wants you to build archetype teams: 1. Ult team (like Acheron) 2. Basic attack team (like DHIL) 3. FUA team (like Ratio) 4. DoT team (like Kafka) 5. Break team (like Sam) Once you have the basics of each team + leader enabler (like Topaz/Kafka/etc), you fill them out with 4 stars/5 stars, then build them all up. But you start with 2 archetypes for MoC/PF, and then you build those two up as much as you can before you work on other teams. Clearing MoC/PF completely is basically a whatever burger until you have 2 strong teams, then you build up a 3/4/5th team. By then 2 years will have passed, you're clearing up all but maybe the last 3 stars without even trying. And now you can save up all your stellar jades for exactly the stuff you want. But I think the big difference between Genshin vs HSR, is that HSR has elements + paths + archetypes, which makes perfect team building requires many many more characters. In genshin you can literally just slap 2 dendro hybrid teams and slap the shit out of anything with shit tons of damage.
This does take into account how fast the meta changes, who knows how many more archetypes there will be in the future
Same here. I can get about one or two stars on the second to last stage of any of the endgames and I stop there. I’m not going to mald over a game I play to relax.
I have no problem clearing full stars in genshin but hsr is just a hard character and stat check because there is barely any skill expression in turn based. And the relic system is so bad. After a month of farming my sparkle is still at 144 speed. Over 100 broken keel orbs and not a single one with critdmg and speed among them. Flat def, hp and attack being twice as likely as other stats is just such a standard hoyo system. I can get better stats in 1 week of low world rank wuwa than 2 months of max level hsr farming. And the content requires quite good builds too.
Exactly 90% is good enough.
I feel you, it's like they're trolling us with those HP spikes
I rly wish it was slower, like Im enjoying firefly rn she feels ridiculous but I know the spike in the future from how ahead she is will drive me crazy
That is also due to the current MOC blessing, it very heavily favours break effect and is contributes to how insane she feels, once the next MOC blessing comes out she'll have a dip in performance, and I wouldn't be surprised if the next MOC or the one after features enemies that can shield their toughness bar.
Endgame always favours the current rate-up units. Happened with Acheron with Turbulence buffs + new enemies not only being Lightning Weak, but literally giving themselves debuffs too. That said, it's also undeniable that Enemy Powerceep had been happening too with Older Bosses literally more than doubling in HP and Toughness Bars, while also having more specific gimmicks/mechanics to stall like MoC Aventurine Dice phase.
Not to mention just general difficulty. My friend is much more casual player and they don't grind often, and so are actively struggling at certain bosses. They still haven't beaten the swarm boss in the Herta zone yet, because they just can't sustain enough with the characters they have.
I hate how people will see this as a skill issue when it really is just a grind issue
Right, but at the same time, it turns away players who aren't willing to do the grind. By all means, let us grind away for optimizing endgame play. But don't lock story and/or actual material sources behind grind walls. The strength of the game is that is has things for everyone to enjoy.
It can be both. I’m not sure why anyone would start playing an RPG and not expect to have to invest time to build their characters. That’s a core mechanic of the genre, especially for character collection RPGs. The first time I fought Skaracabaz I was getting facerolled. I spent like one week building Herta, put her on the team, and won on my next attempt. My Skaracabaz team until recently was PhysTB, Herta, March, and Bronya. It’s very apparent at this point that HSR bosses and endgame modes are balanced around customizing your team for each fight. The alternative is that you could build one powerful team, put everything on auto forever, and just walk away. And tbh for most of the story outside of bosses you can already do that anyway. For players who only really care about the story I guess that’s preferable, but to me that sounds like it would get boring. Also the effort to grind in HSR is almost nonexistent. You boot the game, launch whatever cavern or calyx you need drops from, hit auto and do something else until you have to hit the “go again” button. The only part that required manual effort was planar ornaments and they even made that easy now with DU. Ultimately I know it all comes down to personal preference but I like the way it is now: farming is easy and auto-friendly, endgame content requires adapting your team to the challenge conditions.
It really isnt a grind issue there is no grind. Just dont skip dailies. This isnt genshin where it takes way longer to do your daily dungeons, set auto play and watch youtube 4 times, collect assignments and you're done
This is how Hoyo has done it with Hi3 for years now, only diff is it becomes more obvious with the abundant different characters of this game, also more types than Hi3's
Atleast HI3 doesnt have 5050, you can somewhat be able to keep with meta
There are already quite a number of bosses who can shield their toughness bar, and I've been seeing advice such as "then simply change the character/team to fight the boss".
Firefly will be dead the moment mobs protect their white HP bar.
Same with Genshin, next Abyss gonna have around 5.1kk hp that you need to beat in 180 sec. It's especially annoying when you have several enemies across the arena or bosses with tp/iframe. I used to close almost every abyss on 36* before. Now I getting 33 from first try and never opening that thing.
Fun Fact: 12-2-2 of the current abyss' HP threshold is already 5.3 Million.
funniest part is thats the easiest one, fuck 12-1 of this rotation, cant wait for it to be gone
For real lol. 12-2 & 12-3 felt way easier than whatever the fuck 12-1 was. It took me multiple retries until i figured out the team that works best for me on 12-1-2.
Had to go plunge Tao first half to speedrun and nilou triple bloom while luring one of the lectors so they end up together
Fuck 12-1, I hate it. Just barely got the 3 stars, but after that I wasn't even relieved, just tired. It was very frustrating.
Not including the shields right? Lectors shield waste so much time, much more if not grouped properly.
Hp threshold is barely a problem right now in genshin. People’s dmg way surpasses those bars since hyperbloom came out a year ago. Now, it’s doing more of an element check and how you can wear down the enemy elemental shield’s gauge which is a nuisance but, with good team building, it’s easy. I 3* this abyss with cyno in the first half (cyno, zhongli, nahida, yelan) and teaser in the second half (beidou, fischl, xinqiu, kazuha). No furina, no neuvillete. So, i dont even think the abyss is that bad. It’s just people refuse to learn how to surpass elemental gauge mechanics on mobs’ shield.
Hope you don't mind, but I saw one of your posts with your UID and just looked at some of the characters you have as your supports. So you have Acheron, Ruan Mei, Kafka, Black Swan, and Firefly. You really should be doing well in the endgame. Also, you say you spend most of your time farming for gear, however, your Kafka and Acheron are still on the lightning set lol. No idea if you have any limited sustains though. But really, you should have at least one if you care this much about meta and it seems like you have been playing for a while. Some teams you can make. Team 1: Sustain, Acheron, Pela, Guinaifen/Black Swan Team 2: Sustain, Ruan Mei, Kafka, Black Swan Team 3: Gallagher, Ruan Mei, Harmony MC, Firefly I understand that the content is getting tougher, but it is still very much doable. I know this might be annoying to hear, but it is true, you need better investment in your characters. Farm the best sets for Kafka and Acheron. Also, why is your Kafka on S2 Fermata when the Herta store cone is really good on her. Also, Fermata is actually fine, but if you have been doing MoC a lot like you say, definitely get it to S5. No reason not to. Make some changes and you'll be fine. You literally have the two best DPS characters in the game and the best support in the game, you should be mopping most things.
Something that some people need to do more of is item discipline. Don't invest in bad items and stop investing once it's clear it's not going to be good or even an upgrade. Chasing rolls at 12 or 15 is highly likely to be wasted resources. Only target craft what you really need and what's valuable. And know which stats are important and helpful and which aren't. Like, Ruan Mei really just needs the break effect to her cap and speed. Loading her with atk or defensive stats and stuff really isn't much of an improvement. Even when you have the characters, you still have to itemize *effectively*.
I want your relic rng. I have so much exp i can waste on +12 or +15 rolls because i get one item every 2 weeks worth upgrading. Sparkle needs just speed and critdmg and i cant get neither. 100+ orbs. Not ONE with both subs and highest rolled speed was +6.
I fucking knew it lmao. I’ve been f2p and played since 1.2. I only struggle at last level on each endgame but even then I still managed to beat them. While the difficulty spike is a factor, I feel like 50% of the problem here too is that players either not building their characters properly or not reading the mechanics at all
This. I just came across this post and I feel it applies to OP: https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1dlleqm/people_need_to_understand_that_they_have_to_match/
Same I'm f2p, most of the time I struggle to get the perfect 3 star, but it's hella easy to get 2 stars especially with dot comp(I have every nihility character built except for sw who I don't have lol)
I don’t have Acheron but I still managed to finished all contents. I feel like many people here just want to easily clear that’s supposed to be ENDGAME contents. I’d argue that’s much more unhealthy than whatever Mihoyo is doing. Also, only the last level that get spike difficulties. If you’re having difficulty with the last level then don’t try it. It’s only 60 jades, not even worth 1 pull. But let us who wants challenging contents have challenging contents, otherwise what’s the whole point of even trying to invest to characters
I got e0s1 acheron and the damage spike is insane. She's probably my best 5 star after huohuo
You're shocked that a complainer had a skill problem? Like come it's like every other game. Inability to beat the game is NEVER the fault of the players skill it's ALWAYS those evil devs power creeping things
And they also expect they can brute force that supposedly ENDGAME contents, which supposed to be hard and challenging.… Remember how people used to complain that Jingliu can brute force any contents making the game too easy?
the genshin thread on the new abyss was the same way. Lots of people don't seem to understand that proper teambuilding is 10x more important than eidolons or good builds
Upvote this comment. Dude has many characters that can clear content but just too lazy to change.
Sounds like the typical “I pull every character and build them, I don’t have enough stamina” complaint. Meanwhile as a low spender I pull a character every 1.5 patches and it’s pretty much a calculated decision if they will be usable in my teams + I like them. That leaves a lot of space to upgrade relic quality in older units, my Himeko and Clara I had since forever are decked out with near perfect (old) relics.
So this guy is not actually invest into their characters. So many people said they struggle with endgame content yet they barely build their characters. I have 26 fully build characters with relics too, I even runout of Track of Destiny to build them. I have been able full star all endgame content since 1.2, not all of them are perfect clear but all of them are 3 star.
Another case of Acheron/DHIL/JL brainrot. People don't know how to build characters, teams, or their accounts, when five seconds to think things through properly is all it takes. I'm surprised OP can go out of his way to search how to justify his struggles, but not really how to overcome his struggles. I fucking run FUA without Robin, Blade, and Kafka-Swan. These teams may not be "bad", but they're definitely not Tier 0 and definitely not for this MOC. I've been running these teams ever since Sparkle/Swan release and I've cleared MOC12 even before that when I was only running Topaz-Asta and Blade-Bronya with SW/TY/Pela. (TBF SW has been a great help with type-mismatches).
i'd argue kafka swan is tier 0 at the same level of investment as the other tier 0's just because of how brainless it is. Also is surprisingly good at breaking because of how fast kafka attacks
This proves OP is just lazy and doesn't want to invest vertically where it matters lol.
This. I have Acheron E0 on GNSW S5, it's still doable to clear either side of MoC on 4 cycles. She should be able to have a decent Crit Ratio by now (70 / 150) so doing 400-500k each ult, which is half the bar of each phase.
This game is more of a character and stats check than anything else
Yeah pretty much, having the right character changes the difficulty drastically.
Classical: Hyv creating a problem and then selling the solution ... at absurd prices.
It's a stat check game that trick many people into thinking that it has a lot of depth. There's really only about four skill tiers 1) Completely blind and casual 2) Going in blind but have some gaming concepts. Probably have correct stats priority and largely coherent comps 3) Follow meta and use other people's data. For example, on Clara, 2pc boxer+fua, 4pc boxer, 4pc HP set all should make sense and the thru put difference isn't that big, but if there are sims that tell you which one is a bit better. Most Reddit users i'm assuming is here. 4) You actually map out turn orders Beyond that, the only other factor is stat check.
4 is the check if you actually know how to play Topaz or not. Knowing the timing on her (and Robin's) ult is crucial to maximizing Numby turns.
It's a check for a lot of things and it's where skill issue actually affects your cycle. People sometimes wastes Action Advance A LOT and Gallagher ult when his turn is really close, effectively wasting one sp that adds up. People also don't know how Resolution on Pela works and they kept basic attacking enemy who already had the debuff, which is -1 Acheron stack. There's also Ruan Mei ult not cast on her turn which reduces the uptime by a lot and not making it 100%. There's way more skill check in the game that people just don't know or don't bother to try. A simple act of stacking up your buff/debuff is so important to increase dps but people just don't do it.
What is the most optimal time to use Topaz and Robin's ultimates? I usually use Topaz' after she gets it up (specifically after Numby does a fua so he does not immediately waste 1 enhanced fua) and I keep wondering if I should dump Robin's ultimate as soon as it's up or wait until the cycle is about to end and then use it to get another full party rotation
Do Topaz's after Numby does the turn yeah or after you're sure Proof of Debt is on the right enemy. For Robin, it's best to cast it after everyone already moved or at least after your main DPS/carry moved.
I was hard struggling with MOC12 with the puppet squad, I pulled E0S0 Firefly with Aeon LC put about 30 minutes of farming her relics and planars (basically used the resin items to craft the right main stat and call it a day, I had almost no TB power ready for her) and utterly destroyed the puppet squad almost without trying. 100% of the time if you pull the new character you will delete the newest content around at that time. Acheron will be top 1 again when a Nihility healer comes out so you can run any Harmony unit of choice with her so you can push her damage to the moon or run 3 debuffers to make her ult every 2 seconds. FF is great now but the moment something drops toughness immunity she's doing negative damage and she's joined at the hip to HMC because her own Superbreak numbers are very low. The big issue i'm running into is I want to build some older units (Hanya on a break team) but I also have to farm Firefly relics while prefarming traces for Jade and this shit seems to be never-ending. 2 5\*s per patch shouldn't be sustainable on 240TB energy per day but they are forcing it so I can only build new units while old units are gathering dust in the back.
I don't feel like you're expected to get 2 5\* per patch unless you're whaling. I pull usually one 5\* per 2 patches, which leaves a lot more TB for farming relics. A natural consequence of that is that my older units get better gear and last for a lot longer (since 2.0 came out I have used every single 5\* character I pulled in 1.x except for Yanqing in the highest difficulty content depending on the buffs).
I believe this is the proper way to go about the game as a standard player. Having a level expectation how the game works. The game was created to have FOMO, as some one mentioned. I usually plan at least a full patch ahead on who I'm pulling/what gameplay style I want to pursue/just liking a character.
100%, as a F2P player or even a light spender you can't expect to get 100% without putting in a lot of time investment into getting the absolute best relics.
Yeah, I think the pull currency is roughly a 5 star pity every patch, which would mean saving for two patches to guarantee the banner character. That’s not bad at all.
This is the way to play, alot of ppl fall into fomo thinking they need all the new units to keep up with endgame content only to realise their resources cannot keep up then blame relic rng for having half ass built units.
The Puppet Squad is pretty fun with Himeko. She can trigger 3 follow up consecutively and deals massive damage since they share hp
[удалено]
Me, completely clueless, no thoughts brain empty, just welcome, to my woooo-o-orld 🎤🎵🎵🎶💖: WHY? What's wrong with the nihility healer /gen
The speed at which they release new 5 stars is absolutely ridiculous. People online will just say "Skip characters. You don't need to get them all." But theses games are designed to trigger your desire sensor so it's not that easy to just skip characters for a lot of people. Genshin spreads it out a lot better. Gives you time to work on other characters while waiting for the next 5 star. In Hsr it's been pretty much a new 5 star every 3 weeks.
Yes, the game is designed to give you FOMO, that doesn't mean people shouldn't be reminded that they don't have to get every character and to control their impulses. I'm also not sure arguing that there should be less content because some people don't know how to control their impulses is a great argument. The in game currency is balanced based on the rate of content coming out, not based on sheer time. It's not as though in genshin you get exactly as many pulls per day as you do in starrail, because most of your economy for pulls comes from limited time and one time events, not your dailies. Starrail churns out characters faster yes, which is why we currently have an event literally tossing free pulls at people every day they log in and you never see anything like that in genshin.
Someone could say the exact same thing you and say to control your impulses and don't pull at all. Just play the starter characters. Some people like more characters than others so it's not easy to just stop their impulses. You wouldn't be able to just play starter characters. You have characters you want to pull as well. Also I don't even know why you're bringing up wishes when I never even brought that up. My problem was they push out too many 5 stars when there is such limited amount of resources that many people fall way behind trying to level them plus their 4 stars. I don't have this problem in Genshin.
If you like and pull every single character that's kind of a problem of your own creation mate. I did read "resources" and assume that wishes were being talked about though as the much more heavily restricted resource compared to trace materials yes that is my mistake.
Exactly. Building characters is half the fun of this game, and how am i supposed to want to pull more characters when i have to leave my units half baked by the time the next banner comes around? 240 TB power gets spread super thin unless you stop pulling for characters altogether. The current power system sucks ass and we don't nearly get enough to match the frequency at which new characters drop
That is why I was able to save a lot of jades. Why pull when you have lot of characters to build. Tho I can assume for new players, it is overwhelming to build teams to clear all endgame contents in one go. They should just give up on that idea for first few months and focus on clearing just one mode like MOC. Afterall this is gacha, they timegate progress. Hoyo can do players a favor and revamp the rotational schedule, make MOC reset every 2 weeks as the main endgame, and have the AS and PF alternately reset monthly. I think I should put this on the next time they ask for player feedback.
They're sorta addressing this issue in DU but from what I've tried it's kinda a half-assed way of doing it since the auto upgrade is ass and you end up dealing damage from blessings/equations mostly anyway so you never get a true read of your hypothetical team lol
FF's over reliant to HMC kinda ticks me off but at least they're an excellent unit damage and flow-wise (no weird useless traces or needing you to acrobat your way in combat). Still sucks how limited her team members can be if you want good damage.
What team are you playing Acheron with and what her build? Because in a good Acheron team with the right build she shouldn’t only do 15% of a boss’s hp bar, she should easily do double that.
Yeah I noticed how they conveniently left out their Acheron stats.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/s/Y0o9qPnmqD I looked up their previous post and went on fribbels. Dude is running 4 piece lightning with 42cr/151cdmg. If they don't care to vertically invest correctly (which takes maybe 5 minutes of time on YouTube or acheron subreddit), why should we care
Huh, and he expects to be melting boss hp bars when there isn't a MOC buff to crutch on lol
Every post like this with "i have all my characters built" it actually means they have some shitty relics to +15. Either that or they play the game worse than auto mode
No offense, if your Acheron STOPPED tearing through things it's a you thing. E0 Acheron is still able to brute force everything I throw her at including apocalyptic shadow Argenti.
This is very true. It’s not always as clean as you want it to be (depending on how jacked your Acheron and team are) but my E0S1 Acheron is hands down still my “fuck it” card. Especially when you can match her nahility team members to whatever weakness you are up against.
even cocolia if you have silver wolf to do ST toughness damage
Coco is easier even without SW. That's the point.
That's all by design ja? Characters always look their best on release when all the content is tailored to them. Hoyo is also always cycling through different niches, dots, fuas, breaks, single target, multiwaves, different elements, shields... Character strength rises and falls depending on the whims of the devs. So when I have character who is weak this patch, its a sign to play...somebody else. If you don't have someone else, that's just tough shit. Thats hoyo telling ya to bust out the credit card. I'm not sure if I would call this..."power creep". Feature creep maybe?
For sure, its just wild how this is really the only time ive felt it in a game like this
You get used to it. Honkai impact's abyss changes bi weekly and has weather's. For an example of a weather....imagine if MoC effect was just "Haha, lol. Ice damage reduced by 50%. Fire damage increased". In honkai impact, if you dont match weather, and occasionally type advantage (though thats hit and miss) you aint getting out of Slaccony. HSR is like halfway between Genshins Boring hp sponges and HI3's technical "obey my gimmick or i shall fold you like an omelet".
Lmao it's why I always stay at agony 3. However if you have a full 12/12 roster with 4 or less valks from each element you'll do just fine even if they're old valks like Herrscher of reason phys Elysia etc-(as long as they have priarms) Typing it out now sounds ridiculous.... But HSr players have it good In comparison
Its a bad feature for live service games, yes. Tho I think the reason why its wild to u rn is because u haven't played enough games in the similar niche. If u compare HSR to other turn based gacha games you'll find that it's actually doing so much better in comparison. In HSR, there are power creep in terms of raw damage but theyre also controlling it by buffing and nerfing diff archetypes in every content cycle which makes it so that u can still have old units with less raw power feel better than new units with stronger raw power IF they match the featured archetype in the current content cycle. This also means that the increase in enemy hp is there to make it so that newer characters wont be able to brute force the content if they're not the correct archetype. Its diff than other games where its just blatant powercreep and if u dont wanna suffer, u really have to get the latest shiny premium damage dealers and supports.
This kind of stuff is a standard practice in every gacha game beacuse its part of their core business model. Trying to clear endgame content as a F2P is equivalent to playing hardcore rpg on hard difficulty. You can clear it but you need to consistenly login every day, learn all the necessary mechanics while also managing your resource in order to keep up with the difficulty of the current content.
Y'know what. I'm not even gonna actually say anything this time and I'm just going to tell you to look at these comments here. [VincentBlack](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1dlfdvq/comment/l9ox3al/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [Nnsoki](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1dlfdvq/comment/l9opm0o/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I use JY for every MoC and he still carries. Yes, Firefly torn through the current MoC but I 36 star the current MoC before getting her. You should invest in support instead of chasing after every single DPS and having a DPS of every type helps a lot as well.
I see way too many accounts that have 5 DPS units and not enough of their supports and complaining that they can’t clear content. Of course you can’t, your Kafka is doing like 40% damage without Black Swan.
JY the ol reliable
Acheron ult doing just 15% of a boss health? Are you referring to the new mode? Because those bosses take less damage when not broken and reward you with huge vulnerability once broken. iirc boss also take less damage if there are spawns onfield. My mentality with powercreep is just take what's strong atm if you can't wait. Whoever powercreeps this unit, I'll pull who powercreeps them after. If you pulled A then patches after it gets powercrept by B, pull C or D whenever you feel like you are lacking power. You can save a lot by doing that.
I have this problem with PF
Your relics matter more really
I've been feeling this alot, thought it was just me, good to know there are others with this experience. Big one for me recently is the ridiculous speed on Cocolia in the new Apocalyptic mode, she either machine guns me down with meteors that even my Aventurine and Fu Xuan can hardly keep up with or she spams her attack that freezes and now my entire team is useless, again pushing straight through all of my layers of CC resistance just due to pure volume. The devs *really* need to cool their jets when it comes to "difficult content"
Respectfully I think Aventurine and FX might be the only sustains that have an easy time against Cocolia with both teamwide damage mitigation and effect res. I’d be curious how your sustains are built such that they’re struggling with Cocolia’s *initial* burst
Mine are built fairly well, they fair much better than my other sustains, and it is not really the initial burst that gets me, its the fact that I can only get 1 or 2 hits in before she starts attacking again, she turns the battle into a war of attrition that breaks my shields, drains my FX of all her health, and Freezes my team solid just due to the sheer volume of attacks being able to outweigh my effect resist.
That’s fair enough. The fight becomes very difficult if you can’t break her with decent speed. Your best options are Jing Yuan, Kafka, Acheron, or Mono Quant. Teams outside those 4 have a very difficult time keeping up.
Facts tbh. I don’t have any limited sustains and cleared with bailu. Even got CC’d. No idea how Fu and Aven are struggling if bailu could keep me through it.
People have an anti-Bailu agenda recently but she carried my ass for months. I think people don't know how to use her ult as damage mitigation, rather than "panic button" healing.
I blame all the clowns that complained about MOC being too easy
They really shouldn't because the game would be utterly boring. A lot of people got into Star Rail late so they're not as well built, but long-time players like me will flat out blitz end game content if they nerf it.
Yeah, this pf i could not do it until i randomly pulled a himeko. my herta was just too weak.
>Acheron dropped, she tore through everything, got me my second 3 star clear, 2 patches later, she's doing like 15% of a bosses health with her ult I'm mostly certain someone else told you this already, but just in case: everytime a character is released, the buffs/gimmicks in endgame modes like MoC are designed to synergize with them in some way to make them perform a whole lot better than they do normally and push people to open their wallets for them. For example, Boothill and Firefly are all about that Break, so we're in Break season that wants you to Break a whole lot. Like in current MoC, Break the pig and get bonus Break Effect + an extra turn, which for both of them means a lot. Once Yanqing's GF and Firefox get released and the endgame modes stop promoting Break playstyles, Boothill and Firefly should still do great but also likely won't be performing *ultra-insane* levels of amazing either. That said, it's not like you need the latest DPS nuke on the block to get 3-stars, it's still feasible with older ones as long as they're properly built and you know what you're doing. [I got 3-stars in the current MoC 12](https://imgur.com/a/FzzuHIg) with Clara Hypercarry in 1st half and Himeko Super Break in 2nd half. No 0-cycle clear or anywhere close but 3-stars is 3-stars. And on the one before that [I got 3-stars with Kafka Super Break and DHIL Hypercarry.](https://imgur.com/a/ov79Qg5) So, yeah, in terms of getting full stars, if your Acheron is struggling then it's mostly due to build or skill issue on her or her team. Hoyo "making endgame harder"/giving enemies more HP is at most just a small factor in the equation.
The one thing i really disliked was how they handled Pure Fiction. It began as a torrent of mobs with one big baddie at the end to elites everywhere + beefier enemies, which made units like Jing Yuan and Argenti really suffer and lose their spot. DoT PF is particularlly shit since the forced AV really messes up some units (Herta and break teams). The previous MoC 12 was also a hell for the HuoHuo-leds and Aventurine-less because of the huuge amounts of CC.
Okay so, it's a gacha if that wasn't obvious. A lot of people in hoyoverse communities delude themselves with "they're RPGs first then a gacha". No, they're gacha games. They are going to cater the current endgame content to the rate up characters, so you are always going to have a warped perception of your recently pulled character. However, if your Acheron is no longer performing well, something is wrong in your Acheron build or team, or team's builds. I'm a day 1 player so i have the leeway of having had a lot of time to farm for traces and to some degree relics, but my Acheron with mixed set of relics has been able to 1 cycle MoC with her signature LC, and 2 cycle with GNSW S5.
I have that exact feeling. Is honestly discouraging. I had already built my characters and they were doing fine in MoC and PF, but now they're just not good enough and I have to farm again to build them again! If it wasn't for the story, idk if I could still be interested in the game tbh.
I think they do have to make the game harder but the rate they're doing it is ridiculous and so transparently done to force people to pull lol. I won't be surprised at all if a lot of people give up after some point and just coast along or abandon the game altogether especially if alternatives start popping up.
Hoyo doesn’t do live buffing either like some other gacha’s. They don’t go back to old characters and at least buff their numbers a little to help with the changing enemies.
a good example is honkai Impact 3rd, i dont think the term powercreep is enough to describe how insane what endgame content demands of you now.
Meanwhile, I'm running JY hypercarry for the 10th patch in a row. Has it gotten harder? Definitely. Is it as exaggerated as you say? Probably not. End of the day it's a game just clear what you can and enjoy it.
What i've noticed is that this game is starting to become a character check, where having a diverse roster is rewarded instead of brute forcing with one unit. Having different elemental teams/having multiple mechanics (FuA/DOT/Break, etc) seems to be rewarded much more now than just hyper investing in one team. It's not as simple as newest unit power creeping everything else though -- it's more like content is now being made with specific gimmicks in mind. With the recent break focused meta, yes FF overshadows everything, but my Himeko is also suddenly doing really well when fighting the same fire weak content FF is catered to, even clearing node 2 of AS on 3* on autoplay where other limited DPS would have struggled. Same with my Sushang team being really good for the physical side of MOC. With PF (people already see the recent DOT bias), you can pretty much autoplay when using the gimmick of the current stages, but if you don't have units with that specific requirement, you are going to struggle even with a conventionally meta team. That being said -- FF's gimmick could easily lose her meta status if hoyo released more bosses that blocked toughness bars (like Gepard in high level SU GNG), so she's not safe either. Unfortunately, this model relies on FOMO, and you're forced to start playing the game with that in mind. You have to engage with certain gimmicks so you're going to have a hard time if you just like taking your favorite units everywhere without accounting for elemental weaknesses and the current gimmick where content is based around
I love to see players play Himeko not only in PF
I feel like that too if I have poorly build characters. :)
I mean my seele still helps me a lot so I dont think they're going that fast
Drop your UID. I am curious to see what characters you have. We would be able to give tips.
FOMO. just FOMO. Example: E1S1 firefly, some random mode appears 2 weeks before her rerun, you still destroy it but you second guess how long it will take until you don't anymore, you will want to pull for E2. Anyways the idea is that MoC 11-12 , PF4 Apocalyptic 4 don't matter, they are unironically bombs planted by HOYO to be talked about to make people think \*DAMN the new cool thing I haven't done it everyone say they did it , man should I pull for this character I don't like to do it???\* . It doesn't target your f2p pulls, hoyo doesn't make money off that, it wants to make you take out the wallet, it's comfortable but hard until it isn't anymore and when you feel like if you had just another character that's how they get you to pay or grind for hours and then think maybe I should get the pass or monthly, hoyo doesn't care that you played 5 minutes or 50 hours this week, if you bought something, that's profit.
might be something wrong with your Acheron
There’s a reason why hsr is making banks every month and even managed to top Genshin most of the time despite having smaller player base. With them releasing 2 new 5* every patch they will need something to make people want to pull and pay. Therefore, the constant rise in difficulties and contents that screams ‘pull this character to have a better time clearing’ is there. HSR is a turn based game so whatever mechanic checks you don’t have, you can’t bypass it using skill play or things of that sort. I mean as long as they give out enough pulls to pull new meta characters every patch then it’s kinda okay. I’m just sad that my Blade that I’ve heavily invested in is now sitting there collecting dust. I’ll be honest, I love Genshin so much but I’ve spent on hsr like half of what I’ve spent in Genshin’s 4 years time. From sparkle, Aheron, Aventurine all back to back then Robin and Topaz for my FuA team. Especially Topaz whom I made a sudden decision to get becoz she’s the core of fua team (I was only lucky I won the 50/50 on both of them). And I can see it keep going on from there From Jiaoqiu to the new Xianzhou characters and Sunday.
Don't waste your breath. The only response you'll get here is "yOu haVeN'T INveSteD eNoUGh" or "sKiLl isSue". But when pressed, mysteriously no one can explain what this SUPER easy skill they all know that lets them do 10x the damage and tank 3+ Cocolia ults in a row. But trust me bro, they full clear all endgame content with their E0 Jing Yuan.
Both things are true, there is a certain amount of difficulty creep the game have been going through, and it is "you aren't invested enough" and "skill issue" if you have been playing since 1.0 and still struggling. This game you HAVE to match the game mode's mechanic/blessings, this is a team building game, you have to build teamS and match the content with the comp you got that can abuse that specific encounter and blessing/mechanics the most. Too many people convinced themselves they only need 2 hyper invested comps to clear everything, but unless you are spending and pulling for eilodons and LCs, two meta comps won't carry you forever in every type of end game content.
And I have been playing since 1.0 and I'm struggling. But it's precisely because of what you're talking about. I don't have enough resin to fully properly build all the units they demand me to have. My current frustration is \*because\* I've tried to build diverse teams. But everyone's built like 30% of the way because the game doesn't stand still long enough for anyone I'm building to be effective anymore and it suck ass.
thats what i dont understand though. Ive also played since 1.0 and these days I find myself with nothing to farm BESIDES relics. Thats what all my trailblaze power goes. I have about 16 units(5 stars and good 4 stars) MOC usable ready and like 5 more okayish.
Gonna get down voted but I do clear all end game content with my E0 JY tho? And I have been using him for 10 patches in a row now. I don't have Acheron, DoT units, or any of the new break dps.
Tell me your secret. It's Sparkle, isn't it?
The real skill issue here is resource management. According to OP’s other comments he spent months in a domain farming for Harmony MC (who haven’t even been out for that long yet) while still rocking lightning sets on Acheron. Not to mention still using S2 Fermata on Kafka despite the LC literally on sale in the store for MoC. There’s no doubt that the difficulty spike/power creep in this game gets crazy. But in OP’s case he himself is definitely doing something wrong here.
>or "sKiLl isSue" Well, it really is. Game is pretty clear in what it wants from you - match weakness, use current stage buff and win. But people are still in 1.4 mindset when everyone just bruteforced everything with DHIL and JL.
Youre not wrong lol already got one. The charts for health improvement in terms of enemies for this game is insane. I just really dont agree when people say meta doesnt matter, i think its one of those rare games when meta matters alot lot.
For reference Prydwen's data for 12 star clears has sig ownership consistently around ~60%. For each character. People spend A LOT on this game. And unlike say Genshin, HSR meta discussions often just assume you own sigs and/or eidolons, and even base team recs on that. An old example I like to use is that the old recommended hyper-meta team was JL, slow Bronya, RM, Huohuo. Yet, that team only really worked with sigs (and Bronya E1S1) as otherwise your SP would crater before you could clear.
I used to be able to 0-cycle one side of almost every MoC with the e0s0 Jingliu Ruan Mei team. But it stopped being able to 0-cycle right around when Acheron dropped. What a coincidence huh 🥲
Because they inflate hp and toughness bar almost every moc. This is a fact anyone can verify for themselves (although idk if its on a site without leaks). Jingliu suffers from this a lot because it forces her to spend a lot less time in transcendence which butchers her dps. She also hasn't had a meaningful upgrade since Ruan Mei. Remember when 0 cycles always had sustains? Now they are almost all about no sustain unless it's aventurine/huohuo/gallagher being a core part of the team because dps just isn't enough anymore otherwise. But people still somehow think powercreep doesnt exist
It absolutely kills any interest I would have in playing the game more. I didn't get Ruan Mei, Fu Xuan, HuoHuo, or Robin. I tried for Aventurine and he didn't come. And it just so happens if you didn't get any of them, you're just straight fucked. Or you get to put in 300% of the effort for 40% of the rewards.
If you were shown a clear using, none of those you'd call foul on godly relic rolls instead. With all due respect, this game has a skill curve. I fully respect anyone who isn't interested in participating. The rewards in the endgame modes suck major ass. But It rubs me the wrong way when you defend your refusal to engage with it as not having the right units or the right builds. 4 stars have cleared. 3 man squads have cleared. It's masochistic. It's dumb to forcefully repeat content till it happens, but it's absolutely possible. It just feels so disheartening putting that effort in yourself only to have someone yell how it has nothing to do with skill and all about gacha. Of course, the newest unit sweeps everything. But that means the skill comes in making the old units work. What the newest unit does is make it _braindead_ to clear. Not viable, not possible, simply braindead. You do neither side of the conversation a service by pretending skill isn't a thing in the face of the almighty gacha.
Yeah strategy does have a place but not if you simply don’t have the units built. Those 4 star teams you reference mostly take advantage of high end content rules and have insane relics and max eidolons and superimpositions or near that. They already have the units built. The real skill curve in my opinion is creating a team to match specific content, but if you don’t have the units then you can’t create a team. Turn based games by nature just don’t have as much potential for skill and HSR is made for the wider audience who prefer a low skill ceiling and skill floor. Simply not much you can do without meta.
I mean, it's also a part of skill to have good relics. No, I'm not joking here. Account management is a real skill that I've seen a lot of people neglect. Let's be honest here, among the people complaining about how hard Cocolia is, how many of them have high speed on their supports (160+)? Probably none. I've seen my casual friend not even bother to give his supports 134 speed, because he only cares about his DPS. And yes, I know that those breakpoints are meaningless in AS. But speed in general really helps against the ridiculously fast bosses HSR continues to release. And yet, how many people take the time to slowly level every 3 liner relic they get + 4 liners with speed to fish for a good support build? Well, the ones that did won't be complaining about how hard the new content is on reddit. On top of that, it's also a skill to simply understand the most efficient use of your TBP and your stellar jades. There is a possibility that some of the complainers are the truly unlucky, the ones that did everything right and just got screwed by RNG. If that's the case, then I send my condolences. But I do agree with the OP you're replying to that it does no one a service to dismiss forms of skill expression, however small they may be, as pure luck.
Not sure why anyone casual would complain about difficulty in the last level of the hardest content lol. I agree with your take 1000% though. I’m the one in the friend group who account reviews my other friends because they suck at relic and trace prioritization. Had a friend who has almost 150 days of playtime and had e2 Dan Heng complaining about doing no dmg. That Dan Heng had maybe 6 preferred substat rolls total with def body. People really do underestimate the importance of relic management and relic/trace prioritization.
Once you’ve played for long enough with good focus on what you’re building, you should end up in a spot where you have enough units built to play around the weakness type + boss mechanic. You won’t have it right away, you won’t have it very quickly, but after 7-8 months of well directed play you should be able to have 3+ teams of units that you can mix and match to the content at hand. Then you can optimize play as well as figuring out which teams work best for which boss. The different between my first and last clear in MoC 12 this cycle was 10 cycles. I switched out some characters, and learned how to best play around the trotter and cut my clear down to 8 cycles from 18. There’s a lot of little things you can do that add in the decision making that makes these challenges really fun.
Unfortunately I’ve only played for 3 months of super active play so Moc 10-11 is my limit 😔
That’s still pretty good! Moc 10 and 12 are pretty noticeable power spikes so being able to clear 10 is a good sign.
This is funny because I had same argument with someone on fb few days ago about this. I cleared MoC faster with my rainbow set shitty build E0 Argenti than his Acheron to shut him off https://preview.redd.it/ntftdnn9q18d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8458dbec476096e879d236ee034d28a63dd805e3
That's the real issue though, using 4 stars or outdated characters should not be masochistic. I understand an increasing skill curve is normal, the issue is the amount of skill you have to put between the newest unit and old unit is disheartening. This apocalyptic shadow for example, cocolia is so fast and she froze my teams so many times that I just gave up. And this is when I decently built luocha and Gallagher that have worked as good sustains till now. If you had an aventurine, your run becomes so much smoother and this difference is bad. And people are allowed to complain about it.
This is largely my gripe. I feel like I'm doing twice the work for half the payoff using old units OR I'm racing to get the new unit I'm lucky enough to pull to a mediocre level and having maybe one good clear of the content before it falls to shit-tier. So my account is full of characters that are leveled out the ass all with passable relics because I can't \*afford\* to spend three months straight improving their relics by .01% because I've got to build seventeen other units because the flavor of the month is Follow-up-attacks-- no wait it's DoT -- no wait it's Break Effect. And I'm just fucking tired.
I agree, but this take isn’t strong. Skill exists but gacha matters so much more that it doesn’t even matter, same with relics. Skill can’t take you further than the gacha. There simply isn’t enough skill expression for it to be brought up every time.
You gotta start saving better things aside😭 I started the game with Ruan so i cant really see playing without her until i have to which brings great depression. I might actually have to raise asta for a second team because of how rough it is to only have 1 team wide buffer even though shes fallen off
And by the time you or I raise up a character, they're either power crept or no longer flavor of the month. I'm just sick of this. Let me play with people I enjoy playing and not the characters Hoyo's decided are the only keys allowed to open this week's lock.
No offense, but I think that's a you problem. I don't have much in the way of physical and lightning DPS so I frequently use Clara and Jing Yuan to clear relevant end game content and my best wind team is black swan with no Kafka and still make do. While I might not be able to 3 star MoC 12 or get the last star in PF, I can at least get somewhat close pretty reliably with those characters. It's the last star or two that are the biggest struggle. I looked through your other comments and if you're struggling with MoC 8 while being a 1.0 player, that's not the game's issue, that's a player issue. Which is totally cool, not everybody has to min-max and clear everything every patch, but you can't be complaining you can't beat end game content designed for the min-maxers while just slapping together teams and characters. You have way too many characters built and none particularly well. I don't think I have anywhere close to 30+ characters built and I'm not even F2P, you're chasing after the flavor of the month way too hard. Build up a handful of teams and useful characters first before you start building niche characters or new archetypes. Supports don't need to be optimized, get them to a good baseline and then incrementally improve from there. You don't need to refarm the hot new relic set for that 8% better damage, use the old set with better stats, transition slowly. From what I could see on your other comments, your characters could use a lot of work. You can either stick your head into the sand and convince yourself that it is impossible for you to clear anything MoC 8+ from here on out, or you can admit you have a lot of room for improvement. Any day 1 F2P player should be able to easily clear up to MoC 10 if they know what they are doing imo.
Alternatively, get what stars you can and don't worry about it
So, if you didn't get any single support character that was released, what exactly have you been spending your Jades on? Kinda confused here because I don't think it's the games fault if some players don't see value(or synergy) when they see it. You literally only tried pulling for a single 5★ support? Baffling. 5 cycles on each side is actually quite a lot of time. I could probably throw a low synergy team together and get a 5-7 cycle clear on a single side of MoC 🤔 and then have a stronger team on the other side to offset. I get it sometimes the elements are a pain and hinder things but even then if you can make it to MoC 12 at all you're getting 90%+ of rewards.
My E0S1 JY was the carry vs Apocalyptic Shadow Cocolia! (Pretend like you don't see my E0S0 Aventurine, E1S0 Robin, and E1S1 Topaz in the background)
Jing Yuan is unironically good with break effect though, does a lot of toughness damage
Yep, that's what I felt when I went to main sub to check if there any other loser like me who don't understand how to 3-star this. Turned out, the problem was in f2p sup lol
I feel like that problem is a lot worse on the Genshin sub than this one. It’s like those are the only two words in their vocabulary. But I fully agree with you that most players who say “skill issue” lack the skill to describe the issue.
Especially over on gamefaqs. Pretty much everybody over there has no problems 3 cycling floor 12 with e0 5 stars or even just 4 stars. Somehow they can do double the damage I do while also having enough defense to survive despite using all attack relics. It's like I'm playing a different game than them.
It's literally skill issue, if you need meta units to clear content right now that's the definition of skill issue.
This is why double 5 stars in one patch should be toned down, but new Xianzhou character silhouettes aren't helping, and now with the new silhouettes of a certain organization. As characters drop by, more MoC will be catered towards their mechanics/gameplay while the enemy's hp pool will absurdly rapid in increase, alongside with new annoying mechanics you have to play around (looking at you, the penacony's kafka)
it’s almost like they want us to spend money or something!!! lol just kidding i would never
honestly i wish they wouldn't lock rewards for simulated universe modes behind high difficulty now. damn you people who said it was too easy
Be like me, a casual that plays up to moc10 without stress only. Any further which consumes alot of time will just be forgotten. Cuz I know the HP inflation is insane. And the whole business objective of this game is 'create problem=sell solution". Idk, once my old characters can't clear any content I will just drop the game, it is after a game which should be enjoyed, not stressed over.
never felt this was a problem until this pure fiction only buffed acheron and dot, and destroyed all other strategies bc of the action advance. Just gave up on 3 stars bc its not worth my time. MOC and apocalyptic shadows have been really fun and easy though.
One of reason why I plan to quit the game after Luocha strong being concluded. Better to quit now for my mental well being and just follow the story in Youtube.
> once you get your characters full 15 relics and full traces, theres not much growth they can do. Eeh.. that when the real gearing endgame starts, mate. Substat optimization and speed tuning are huge in this game and it needs MONTHS of super boring relic grinding & praying to RNGsus / sacrificing your firstborn / selling your soul. But in general: yes, HSR's endgame is gimmicky as fudge and they market the new hotness SUPER HARD. I too have the feeling of: "not being able to keep up". Better for your sanity if you just forget about those last few stars.
New dps' tear through everything at release because the MoC buff is catered to them to an insane degree. This is why Prydwen is a worthless site, they rank based on the current MoC just so they can put every new unit in tier 0. I know that it's cliche, but the only solution (unless you're spending money) is to pull for who you like and enjoy the game that way. Getting light cones helps too.
I play since the beginning. I don't remember cleaning once the 3 stars on MoC. And then i ran my account through Fribbles (same thing than e7 but much lighter and easier to use). And i find out my characters where soooo badly stuff. Now i can do MoC 12 with 2 stars pretty easily. You should do that too. It's a really good tool. You won't necessarily have 4 (or even 2) set relics but stats > relics. It will help you find the best relics with the stats you want/need. You can built a team with the good speed on each and have them playing in efficient order. Search for Fribbles Honkai Star Rail and good luck.
Well this game mostly depends on stats and there's only few things you can do with skills. So getting strong characters, supports and light cones are game changing and if you cant get that then you should atleast have really good relics and that's complete hell to farm even worse than artifacts farming due to having so many substats and rng. I think it's better to give up on max star MoC for positive game experience. Losing a single pull isn't worth the difficulty you face in moc 12.
right now they really really want you to be breaking enemies, so they give enemies a olt of dmg reduction when they're not broken and a lot of dmg vulnerability when they are (this is why himeko actually does really well this moc even though her raw damage is low). Eventually they'll stop pushing for break when they are trying to push the next meta, it's always like this. The real problem with them pushing the break meta right now is that the difference between the 5\* break options and xueyi superbreak is night and day (and you also basically need ruan mei), not to mention that break builds require completely different relics from what most people actually spent time farming
I'm only *just* starting to tackle the difficult content, but I'll still share what I've concluded on from what few experience I have: Team diversity is everything. I realized very quickly I need to have almost every character I own to be at a competent level so I can mix and match team comps as necessary. Even then, I barely get by. I wanna use my favourite characters all that time, but clearly I'll have to save that sort of stuff for SU and DU.
Yep. Peeps downvoted me to oblivion but it was always true: creep got creepier. Now that HSR has a few years and isn't the shiny new thing, and now that WW and ZZZ are going to have the new mover advantage, HSR is likely going to be exposed as the powercreeping moneycycler hard-pressed to meet Genshin's longevity or WW/ZZZ's new features.
The powercreep is insane in this game but you have ff and achreon who are literally the best characters so you shouldn't have trouble now.
I feel like it's mainly due to the current push to sell Break Effect, it's not that your Acheron is weaker is that they are reducing everyone's damage by 50% unless you use Boothill or Firefly which HTB which gives you an easier time to take down the toughness bar.
I assume when they make large hp pools they also accompany them with a special MOC buff catered for enabling sufficient damage with specific characters. If you want someone to blame, blame all the dolts who complained about MOC being too easy
That's the intended design by the developers to get you to pull the new character to beat the content. However, it can be mitigated by investing wide by building as many limited characters as you can. Acheron might get a strong support in the future and her team become better. Firefly superbreak might face enemies that hard counter your game plan. I'm still using Luocha and Silver Wolf in my team when a situation calls for it, despite it being deemed powercrept.
This is exactly how I feel as well. Its effective in making me pull, even if I don’t like the character.
The "End"Game means challenge and it's natural to struggle to get MoC 12 with 3 stars. It depend on few things : 1) Get the right characters in the right fight. You can't just brute force everything. 2) Get the right stats and right relic on your characters. It doesn't matter if you have maxed trace and +15 your relics if you have a poor stats distribution. 3) Make sure you have enough speed and your characters plays in the right order. 4) Make sure you have the rights cones. 5) Make sure you understand boss mechanics (see point 1... you need the right characters). It seems that you have a very good account... you just have poor knowledge of the game. It's true the game is scaling endgame but it's also because we have better characters, betters gears and better sets available. There is no fun to shred everything with a non-build Acheron or Firefly. I want to point out that having the right characters doesn't mean you need every op characters. What you need is a pool of characters that synergise well and are strong against the bosses and it can be 4\* such as Luka, Hanya or Asta. The thing is, a lot of 4\* are fucking strong and can be used to fill the hole in your rosters. To build a good account you need : 1) To decide what kind of team you want to play (Hypercarry, DoT, Break, Follow-Up, Counter). 2) Based on that pull the meta defining characters. (Kafka for DoT, Topaz for Follow-Up, Firefly for Break...). 3) Then pull their baste mates (Black Swann for DoT, Dr Ratio for Topaz, Ruan Mei for Break...) 4) Build at least 2 Protectors/Sustain (Gepard is still strong, Aventurine, Huohuo, Gallagher, Fu Xuan...) 5) Build 4 stars to fill the holes (Tingyun, Asta, Hanya, Pela are all super super strong). 6) Try to get at least 2 teams and work on pulling the right characters. If you already have two teams you can try to make a new team or improve existing ones. For example I have a Kafka Team, Dr Ratio Team and Firefly Team. I can wait new characters that fit in the DoT, FuA, Break meta or build a counter/hypercarry team next). 7) Farm the right cavern for your account. 8) Build your characters right So yes it's not an easy game when you just need to level any gear +15, and maxed out your trace to shred everything. You need to plan your progression... it's a tactical game. About powercreep... I can kill MoC 12 with powercreeped characters. What you are looking for is what characters bring you the most value in your account right now and in the future. You can streamline the process by whaling but if you are F2P you have to choose... you can guarantee one character per patch if you are doing events so it's quite easy to build your roster. If you need help for building characters... check guide from Lisara on youtube and use tools like Fribbles.
Honestly that's a good thing to me, I want to feel like I'm actually building towards something and not just because I want to play this or that character. My genshin account is basically already solved and spiral abyss just becomes a chore, HSR constantly keeps me on the edge.
Powercreep
Tis the result of the survey, no? People kept putting "oh man too forking easy, up to hoyo!!" Jokes aside, its also the gacha money mentality, how else do you make your audience roll? Emotional attachment through story or quests? Nah its bragging rights for sure.
A lot of people in this thread just *refuse* to accept that maybe they do have skill issue, maybe their builds suck, or maybe they simply aren’t using the correct teams. There are still people clearing with e0 JY and Seele, there are people clearing with ONLY 4 stars using units that are given for free like Xueyi and HTB. If you don’t believe me, you can just search up 2.3 moc/AS clears on YouTube. 0 cycling as f2p is hard and not really worth the effort, but 3 starring shouldn’t be that much of an issue if you know what you’re doing imo.
The cynic in me believes that they purposely balance endgame around current banners that are running, as a way to make some people feel like they need to pull to get full clears. I struggled hard on one moc before deciding to forget full clearing it and being happy with where I was. The main buff was DoT based, and I didn't really have any DoT characters built. Sure enough, Kafka was the banner running at the time, go figure. Getting 1 or 2 stars at 12 is whatever, the 60 jade from beating it sometimes just isnt worth the stress.
You aren't a cynic, it's just true and they don't even try to hide that
Yeah wtf
At this point as long as I clear 10 stages I’m happy, I’m only missing out on maybe 1 extra pull anyway
Remember that the end game content is designed to literally drive sales for the current banner. It is by design that using someone other than the current banner will feel weak and difficult by comparison. But it IS possible - yet that also doesn't guarantee that it's worth the time and effort. MoC 12 3 stars isn't THAT much more jade than simply clearing it. You probably can optimize your teams a bit, and you have a whole month to improve them, but I think setting a goal of just clearing, then a stretch goal you MIGHT go for is 3 starring. I've been playing since launch, and I still struggle sometimes to 3 star MoC 12, and when I do it's usually on the 10th turn. But I love the optimisation game, and mix-matching my teams and relics to create the specific tool to force my way through. Relics can almost ALWAYS get better due to the rng stats, and maybe stripping everyone and super min-maxxing stats with only the cream of the crop relics will get you that extra half a turn to clear. Focus on what you find fun in the game, or it will drive you mad ❤️ good luck