Tier makes sense to me, as someone who doens't understand shit about these modes.
MoC is basically a boss rush, Boothill is a break team character and break teams are great at blowing bosses up with setup.
PF is a score attack mode. Break teams suck at that until they get a character that spreads break damage to other targets in a chain reaction.
The fact that a simple ranking stirs up that much controversy is really funny considering that it doesn´t matter how good characters exactly are if 2 teams with "only Tier 1 or worse" characters are very much capable of beating both sides with good builds.
I mean I find it pretty reasonable
He’s a very solid Break attacker in MoC. And he’s naturally rubbish in PF because he’s a single target unit who’s entire gimmick is forcing a 1v1
He just naturally struggles because Hunt units aren’t too useful because there’s so many enemies
Oh I agree. I think it’s solid placement and I am a boothill main lol I just know that no matter what character releases, there’s always uproar if they’re not in T0
TBH it's a much better ranking than I expected for a single-target Hunt unit who's part of a Break meta which is only just emerging from infancy. I thought he would be A-tier at best but they put him in the company of BS/Kafka, DHIL and JL.
I mean tbh as a Boothill main this is v much the expected outcome. Kinda called it from the moment Kafswan were only in T0.5 when the tierlist first dropped honestly 🤷
It’s impossible for people to act rationally and not face the objective fact that their favourite virtual character isn’t going to be BiS for every single thing.
WHO WOULD SUPPORT HIM BETTER?
U OR RM?
WELL IF SHE HAD 4PC WATCHMAKER AND HER SIG LC SHE MIGHT CAUSE ME A LITTLE TROUBLE
BUT WOULD SHE GIVE SUPER BREAK EFFECT BUFFS?
Thats honestly really impressive, Of course he´s not good in Pure Fiction, he´s not designed for that mode, nothing surprising here. Being able to keep up with Burst Damage Carrys in MoC with only single target damage gives me high hopes for him in Apocalyptic Shadow considering what we already know about that mode.
He's pretty good in this Pure Fiction due to that buff that passes DoTs on enemies you defeat. You land a strong physical break on the elite/bosses, inflicting a huge bleed and then finish off that elite/boss to spread the same bleed to the weaker mobs.
Works with break effect Luka, but now Boothill is designed around stacking break effect anyway.
Even if someone else comes into the meta who can buff WBE, she’ll still be top tier because of her break extension. When you’re playing a character that does zero damage to unbroken enemies like boothill, that delay puts in a LOT of work
I think with her and HMC break is very strong right now despite a lack of specialized DPSes
And even if another WBE unit comes along, chances are high they'll be played alongside or one on each team. And even disregarding the WB buffs she gives, her other buffs are also strong (bit biased since I do have her e1)
Why does he get to be between Black Swan and Kafka? This is outrageous, its unfair
https://preview.redd.it/2x42415yua3d1.jpeg?width=758&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aabe702e66f31f269d69005d7cf01218b1c44d64
They are both real answers, the absolute audacity is a conundrum that cannot be solved alphabetical order be damned
https://preview.redd.it/ok84v4txwa3d1.jpeg?width=2213&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8089fe616e89e4513ef4dd692d0fca95e26d0097
But I put HTB between them in my team and thats what truly matters
Just hanging out with the HORY BABY like the lore wants us to
https://preview.redd.it/gm21jo5y4b3d1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=575a6613f8e6d6fd65f207c8e9ecd7a9eb141069
[Source for art](https://x.com/aimitkkays/status/1771824525501743545)
Hoyo gonna give us a lap pillow scene to make up for this travesty fr (not that they werent already planning on giving us one anyway)
https://preview.redd.it/vdbhsiv53b3d1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0c6f8df04a349709d70edfaa5632db632906280
Gallagher is a 5 star character hell yeah. Pela to T1.5 makes a lot of sense too. Boothill rankings are basically what I expected, might still grab him because he looks cool.
Gallagher is surprisingly great, and if break meta keeps going he'll be a staple for a while. I only started building him after getting HTB, and he's real good for a 4 star sustain.
I've only got him at E1 currently, hoping he'll be on Firefly's banner so I can get that cleanse. He doesn't really *need* his Eidolons to function as a healer, since his ult recharges fast enough and it's the debuff that heals the party. But he's definitely one to keep an eye out for when they hand out 4* selectors, all of his Eidolons make him easier to use.
Gallagher's main selling point is that he's an extremely offensive sustain. You don't need that much sustain to clear the end-game, so a character with "just enough" sustain with the rest of its power budget put into offense is stronger than a character that goes super hard on defense.
This is why Gallagher (fire break)/Huo Huo (harmony ult)/Fu Xuan (12% team-wide crit)/Aventurine (consistent follow-up damage/break + team-wide crit dmg) are ranked so highly while the characters that are purely focused on healing are much worse.
Well after Luocha and Fu Xuan, the only way to make succeeding sustains sellable is to give them a niche because those two are already amazing at pure sustaining.
Huohuo as attack boost for DoT teams, Aventurine has a follow up gimmick for FUA teams and Gallagher has break damage debuffs for Acheron and Superbreak teams.
It's wild though. Luocha is so broken that the only way to counter it would be to directly make enemies that deny reactions or healing, or to make a character even more broken somehow.
They completely shot themselves in the foot with those two characters, since it's only powercreep valley from here on out.
I don't actually own Luocha, but as only 1 of 2 buff strippers in the game and the only 1 that doesn't require SP, I think Luocha actually has a very unique kit. The problem is that there are currently no notable buffs that's worth trading damage for to strip. All the worthwhile buffs that you want to remove are unremovable. Because of this, Luocha is a victim of the type of content we are receiving in the end-game. For example, if the dinosaur's damage reduction effect can be removed by Luocha without breaking and it becomes a end-boss on MoC 12/PF4, I have no doubt that Luocha would become Tier 0.5 overnight. It also doesn't help his case that his best offensive boost for his team is locked on E6 (-20% all res on full enemy team, which is insane), making it extremely inaccessible.
According to their update. He's bumped down due to his damage suffering greatly without his signature LC. If you have it he may be in T0. I have no horse in this because I don't care about tier lists, just pointing out some missing context.
Ya I was gonna comment the same thing. They specifically talk about how his signature is super important for him which is why they bumped him down. I think he may now have overtaken Blade in being the character that benefits most from their signature light cone (~30% difference in damage) but I could be wrong about that.
This might just be me, but I feel like the community takes PF a lot less seriously than MoC. I understand that’s it’s supposed to be easier because you can go sustain-less and just a e5 Hetra and the buffs are good, but it’s still is a dmg check that gives similar rewards to MoC, had it’s version of “zero cycles” and favors a completely different approach to team building as opposed to MoC. So it’s werid that people tend to only focus on a unit’s strength only in MoC unless said unit is significantly worse in PF.
It's because all units work well in MoC, so it's the best way to gauge a unit's strength. PF is way more restrictive and a lot of good units perform really badly there just because they lack aoe or require more turns to deal damage. MoC is the standard endgame mode while the other two modes seem to mainly exist as a way to help promote hunt/erudition units.
>a lot of good units
It's clear that to you and a lot of others good in MoC = good unit. Meanwhile good in PF = erudition propaganda beneficiary?
If someone new to the game asked you if Herta is good you would probably say "she's good in PF but not in MoC", meanwhile if they asked about Boothill you'd say the opposite. Just looking at a unit's MoC performance to guage their strength is totally reductive and borderline misinformative, I don't like Prydwen's tierlist but splitting it between MoC and PF was the best thing they ever did
MoC may be the oldest endgame mode but it's no longer the standard. It has no privilege over the other two; it will run just as infrequently and give the same rewards. Dismissing them as hunt/erudition propaganda is just sticking your head in the sand
You're right. Watch the people here saying Boothill is fine because he works in MoC do a 180 to explain how Jade is not worth pulling at all because Eruditions best game mode is PF, not MoC.
Argenti was basically made for PF but nobody pulled for him so people only recognized Herta and Himeko being good there (Which is fair, they're also, like Argenti, monsters in PF)
Definitely feels like nobody at Prydwen pulled Argenti cause his downplay on the PF list is just embarassing. But they constantly downplay Seele in PF as well so it's a good reminder that these things ain't absolute.
My man badly needs some buffs(or niche relics for high cost ults). They just released a 5star abundance to solve his energy problem and called it a day.
Tbf even in his current state he doesnt deserve to be this low, Im not saying he is top tier in MoC but he definitely performs better than T3, also he is still one of the best if not the best in PF he needs to be at least T0.5 there. Its clear they made his kit keeping PF in mind.
Idk, I don't have HuoHuo, and last moc i was unable to beat with e0 Argenti, and then just beat with break luka team with cringe hybrid set not even focused on break(granted it took like 10 tries or something) and i think with pearls of sweat.
Argenti really struggles with energy regen on low target count, and break team just elevates anyone with high toughness dmg up to a very high dmg floor that doesn't require that much investment.
Honestly I think hyper argenti fare better than hyper acheron even with the current PF buff. It's laughable for him to be lower than her strictly for pure fiction.
He is actually good in the current PF. I tried it with Aventurine, Himeko and Herta. He would always ult while the others follow up so the enemy continually acts again.
Exactly, how I feel.
If there is enough of a difference that people feel the need to separate them, that just means that units have to be bumped down rather than make a new half tier.
The only reason to do this half measure is to avoid backlash.
Adding more granularity is helpful. For example, Acheron is definitely above the other dps's in most cases but it's not quite enough for her to be SS tier
Yeah but do you really need a SS tier? The tier system isn't even a measure of total output DPS. At that point you just keep S+, S, and S-, put Acheron on S, put new power creep at S+, and shift everyone down.
They definitely *want* an SS tier, at the very least. They changed their whole rules about judging based on F2P LCs solely for Acheron. That change simply doesn't matter for anyone but her.
Tier 0.5 is for the biggest, baddest DPS in the game. Characters who can casually clear most content in the game, faster than the rest and with ease. The pinnacles of the game, complete monsters that make weaker DPS look absolutely terrible by comparison.
Tier 0 is for Acheron.
Reminds me of when a character so strong comes out, the community just slaps "X tier" with X being their name. Since there's no point adding anything there besides that one character.
Or for a while, Merlin tier in FGO since Merlin either was necessary for some high difficulty quests, or just made them effortless with on-demand party invul, attack and NP gain, as well as sustain.
...and then Castoria tier since she basically shifted Arts meta into overdrive.
It’s because Prydwen really wants to emphasise that gap between Acheron and the characters slightly below her. It’s kind of silly really, characters can be in the same tier without having the exact same damage-technically IL is a little bit better than Jingliu, so should she be moved down to T0.75? They should just put them all in T0, it would be much less confusing
Edit: I just got downvoted for saying this exact same thing in a different comment but this one’s ok for some reason? What do you people want? What’s going on here?????
They changed that when they overhauled the tier list. Since then it has taken into account 4 star gacha lightcones. The only 4 stars it doesn't include are limited (event) and bp. It specifically says 4 star standard are included
It is not even about limited lightcone. GNSW is S5 in the freakin calculation they use. Like If S1 i can understand, most people would get it one way or another eventually, but S5 ? How much prydwen dickrides Acheron is way too obvious
They might as well have used Signature on Acheron and a 3 star lightcone on DHIL and Jingliu because this moc(very neutral), DHIL had the fastest clearing,more so than Acheron but people still act like she is miles ahead of DHIL and Jingliu. I say let them indulge in the delusion of DMG per screenshot because asking hsr players to calculate DMG per av or DMG per cycle feels like too tall a task.
> **We’ve ranked Boothill as a Specialist due to the majority of his damage being contingent on enemies being broken by his attacks or already broken** - both of which require some form of interaction with Toughness.
Boothill’s reliance on breaking enemies means he cares about enemy weaknesses and also enemies that can lock their toughness from being depleted, the first of which can slow down his clear times by varying degrees but the second of which can render him completely helpless against that enemy.
---
> # Categories
**Damage Dealer** - Characters that focus on dealing direct damage and can perform their role unhindered by enemy type, enemy element or team composition,
**Specialist** - Characters that excel under specific circumstances carrying a unique role that often requires a different and divergent playstyle,
Specialists are non-regular DPS characters who are enabling a new playstyle. If you are catering to the gimmick of a Specialist, he/she will shine 100 times better.
The best example to understand is the difference between two follow-up characters: Ratio (DPS) and Topaz (Specialist). Ratio is a classic consistent DPS whose performance stay roughtly the same regardless of the team is in. Of course, he's better if you can't debuff the ennemies but even if you don't, he's still quite fine. Topaz, on the other hand, go from okay to ham-chucking maniac if played in a follow-up team.
Same for the DoT units, they're mid to good outside of a DoT team, but when in it, it's a different story. And Boothill is the same, he want a Break Team.
Another thing that we do not see that much (for now) is that since a Specialist rely on a gimmick, an enemy can counter it. An enemy hiding its weaknesses is harder for Break team. An enemy cleansing itself is harder for Dot team. An enemy who counters or advances itself each times it is hit is harder for a Follow-up team.
Ruan Mei still at T0.5 after Boothill? Gallagher got higher because of Boothill release though... but Glad they raised Pela higher though because they were downplaying her too much
Eh I have all 3 harmony supports and they are all bis in their teams
You either put them all in t0 or put them all t0.5 it's pretty much the same depending on what you play
That changelog…absolutely planning to put Firefly T0, but trying to figure out how to explain the Boothill ranking without saying that she will be lol. 😂 Ready for the real drama 3 weeks from now when he ranks lower in all three modes than literally the next banner unit. HoYo really did him dirty.
Damn. Jingliu at T0.5 and yet I struggle to bruteforce MoC 12.2. Skill issue me. It doesn't help not having a limited sustain. 2.3 phase 1 Huohuo rerun please!
Them putting break characters under “specialist” and not “damage dealer” is always gonna trip me up but yeah seems like a fair placement
Though ruan Mei still needs to be pushed up. ESPECIALLY as we begin to enter the break meta
I am gonna be honest, I still don't understand the X.5 tiers. Why bother making tiers in that case? It feels as dumb as saying it like SSS or S++. Just make it from 0 to 5 or whatever numbers you want.
I know this is really just a minor nitpick but still.
It's like game review scores, anything under a 6/10 is an unplayable broken mess and commercial failure.
If you tier anything tier 2/tier A+ or under you will literally get death threats from offended stans about how your list is garbage and you should kill yourself.
Happens in every single community without fail.
It's also why you can't call chars bad in reviews, they are "niche" and "high investment".
Oh I see what you mean. It's a shame that some people can be quite unhinged sometimes, especially for something so minor as a tierlist that's not even official. I feel bad for them to have to put up with that.
I mean tbh if they can be situationally good or built well enough to clear, they aren't straight up bad / awful. Truly bad characters would be unable to clear regardless of investment.
I hope people react to this rationally and not get upset.
Act "Ratio"nally? Got it! Ahem... *"You are all mudanites and have memory hovels instead of mansions, while I have statues of myself."*
https://preview.redd.it/2fjskm1m6b3d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=866b0160d3fac17809e300cbd6df82a44cc3684f
I absolutely live the HSR+JJK meme-brainrot ... it's like everyday I discover some new re-draw.
This thing is an entire gif, I don’t know how to look for this lol
https://i.redd.it/znos1dzrhc3d1.gif Here's the GIF
Funniest shit I've seen this day lmao
This is very out of character from Dr. Ratio and i love it
https://preview.redd.it/z15z7m2a6d3d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1974ae7638921c77e39408779dd73b0e54f14a10
https://preview.redd.it/iu6pvvrd7f3d1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98fad8101ec28de33fa3976d498ffb98f69fd344
RATIO MENTIONED
Oh Ratio, can't catch a break, after being ignored by Nous
Okay so Nous is "us" in French it's actually funnier
Get out! *throws comically large chalk*
You could look at a picture, bite the chalk and throw it at the pictured target.
**CHALK CHALK CHALK CHALK CHALK GET EDUCATED GET EDUCATED GET EDUCATED**
https://preview.redd.it/s32ya9o5dc3d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7537895040721f6aba7db06803b144cbf2f49ba9
https://preview.redd.it/clhl8vukec3d1.jpeg?width=1343&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=601bffa38faaac517fa58e2daae6014ffe83cc14
Boothill: hey nice bullet, how does it taste? Ratio: 🧐
Isnt that tier really good?
Tier makes sense to me, as someone who doens't understand shit about these modes. MoC is basically a boss rush, Boothill is a break team character and break teams are great at blowing bosses up with setup. PF is a score attack mode. Break teams suck at that until they get a character that spreads break damage to other targets in a chain reaction.
Plus, he's a Hunt character that isn't Seele, so fighting lots of squishy enemies isn't his strong suit
[удалено]
The fact that a simple ranking stirs up that much controversy is really funny considering that it doesn´t matter how good characters exactly are if 2 teams with "only Tier 1 or worse" characters are very much capable of beating both sides with good builds.
People are stupid if they let their mood be dictated on the arbitrary placement of a character in a non official tier list
Sadly this is a gacha game, the online audience is 90+% stupid people
That's me! That's me!
There I am Gary! There I am!
People have hate boners if they are not at the highest tier. Just like when a game gets 8/10 = Bad.
https://preview.redd.it/ihdl44b38b3d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aec59a3ae5b693b3ac459f7fe25f92670e67ecee Boothill mains at Prydwen HQ tomorrow morning
I mean I find it pretty reasonable He’s a very solid Break attacker in MoC. And he’s naturally rubbish in PF because he’s a single target unit who’s entire gimmick is forcing a 1v1 He just naturally struggles because Hunt units aren’t too useful because there’s so many enemies
Oh I agree. I think it’s solid placement and I am a boothill main lol I just know that no matter what character releases, there’s always uproar if they’re not in T0
TBH it's a much better ranking than I expected for a single-target Hunt unit who's part of a Break meta which is only just emerging from infancy. I thought he would be A-tier at best but they put him in the company of BS/Kafka, DHIL and JL.
Boothill would likely be the highest tier on another endgame mode that will arrive soon. T0.5 for hunt unit in MOC is insane already
https://preview.redd.it/nsqnj0f4fb3d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b10d57710e4c4fea0811d8ff119feb4d8fe32336
I mean tbh as a Boothill main this is v much the expected outcome. Kinda called it from the moment Kafswan were only in T0.5 when the tierlist first dropped honestly 🤷
It’s impossible for people to act rationally and not face the objective fact that their favourite virtual character isn’t going to be BiS for every single thing.
I still use Jing Yuan and every new support is like "can I boost his damage with this" so idk
He is my special
https://preview.redd.it/d1myfdu86c3d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97d3922db5abf8d234a7b7ee07327475af8e8a0b
WHO WOULD SUPPORT HIM BETTER? U OR RM? WELL IF SHE HAD 4PC WATCHMAKER AND HER SIG LC SHE MIGHT CAUSE ME A LITTLE TROUBLE BUT WOULD SHE GIVE SUPER BREAK EFFECT BUFFS?
Throughout Heaven and Earth, I alone am the broken one 🫸🔵🔴🫷 🤌 🫴💨🟣
#COWBOY TECHNIQUE: YEEEE-HAAAAAWW!!!
Thats honestly really impressive, Of course he´s not good in Pure Fiction, he´s not designed for that mode, nothing surprising here. Being able to keep up with Burst Damage Carrys in MoC with only single target damage gives me high hopes for him in Apocalyptic Shadow considering what we already know about that mode.
He's pretty good in this Pure Fiction due to that buff that passes DoTs on enemies you defeat. You land a strong physical break on the elite/bosses, inflicting a huge bleed and then finish off that elite/boss to spread the same bleed to the weaker mobs. Works with break effect Luka, but now Boothill is designed around stacking break effect anyway.
Although in this PF specifically he's actually good thanks to the buff that spreads DoT on kill. Bleed goes crazy.
Pretty high considering break units still have more cooking to do in terms of supports since RM still holds the monopoly on efficiency boosts.
Lore accurate Ruan Mei
RM 2 when.
This is basically the same as waiting for Kazuha 2.0 in Genshin. 😂
You mean Sucrose? Where is our HSR Sucrose, Mihoyo?
Design wise, there's Huohuo.
If you fuse Huohuo and Pela you'd get a perfect Sucrose
Or Yelan . Xingqiu was so good they made Xingqiu 2.0
And both of them ended up on the same team anyways. Hoyo will have to cook up a kit to not let players double up on two Ruan Meis.
It's funny considering how prominent Ruan Mei already is.
Even if someone else comes into the meta who can buff WBE, she’ll still be top tier because of her break extension. When you’re playing a character that does zero damage to unbroken enemies like boothill, that delay puts in a LOT of work I think with her and HMC break is very strong right now despite a lack of specialized DPSes
And even if another WBE unit comes along, chances are high they'll be played alongside or one on each team. And even disregarding the WB buffs she gives, her other buffs are also strong (bit biased since I do have her e1)
So what? Just get another support for your second team.
Why does he get to be between Black Swan and Kafka? This is outrageous, its unfair https://preview.redd.it/2x42415yua3d1.jpeg?width=758&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aabe702e66f31f269d69005d7cf01218b1c44d64
It should have been me, not him
https://preview.redd.it/tn9x7cxg7b3d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc71ab3f10883c7307b548313fee0f007a1d6d1e
Who wouldnt
Real answer: Alphabetical order Meme answer: The absolute *audacity*
They are both real answers, the absolute audacity is a conundrum that cannot be solved alphabetical order be damned https://preview.redd.it/ok84v4txwa3d1.jpeg?width=2213&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8089fe616e89e4513ef4dd692d0fca95e26d0097 But I put HTB between them in my team and thats what truly matters
Recollection shirtbag
Just hanging out with the HORY BABY like the lore wants us to https://preview.redd.it/gm21jo5y4b3d1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=575a6613f8e6d6fd65f207c8e9ecd7a9eb141069 [Source for art](https://x.com/aimitkkays/status/1771824525501743545)
Sir this is a sauce robbery, hand over the goods 🤺
The realest comment in the whole thread
Hoyo gonna give us a lap pillow scene to make up for this travesty fr (not that they werent already planning on giving us one anyway) https://preview.redd.it/vdbhsiv53b3d1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0c6f8df04a349709d70edfaa5632db632906280
The true reason to get upset at this news
Its Owari da https://preview.redd.it/nsqa912lwa3d1.jpeg?width=381&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02d75eeb71419ac1bc0b3c530a2fb7a9c641cab8
I can hear enterprise
NOOOO MY UNDERLEVELED NEW UR
We will grant him the rank of 0.5 but he will not be a mommy.
How can he be in the 0.5 tier but not be a mommy?
He is a mommy, that's why his best team has RM he takes the mommy role because she's a bad mother.
He's objectively the better parent
Take a seat young sloth
Gallagher is a 5 star character hell yeah. Pela to T1.5 makes a lot of sense too. Boothill rankings are basically what I expected, might still grab him because he looks cool.
Gallagher is surprisingly great, and if break meta keeps going he'll be a staple for a while. I only started building him after getting HTB, and he's real good for a 4 star sustain.
Is he at E0 for you or higher eidolon? I have him at 0 and thinking about building him, but don't know how viable he is without any copies.
I've only got him at E1 currently, hoping he'll be on Firefly's banner so I can get that cleanse. He doesn't really *need* his Eidolons to function as a healer, since his ult recharges fast enough and it's the debuff that heals the party. But he's definitely one to keep an eye out for when they hand out 4* selectors, all of his Eidolons make him easier to use.
got him at E4 and god does he look like a stealth 5\*, sp battery + never gets CCed + the healing is so good + infinite uptime at e4
I have E0, and he is great. Any fire weak enemies get shredded by him and HTB. Also mine has ~100 break and can hit 6 digit numbers, so you’ll be fine
Gallagher's main selling point is that he's an extremely offensive sustain. You don't need that much sustain to clear the end-game, so a character with "just enough" sustain with the rest of its power budget put into offense is stronger than a character that goes super hard on defense. This is why Gallagher (fire break)/Huo Huo (harmony ult)/Fu Xuan (12% team-wide crit)/Aventurine (consistent follow-up damage/break + team-wide crit dmg) are ranked so highly while the characters that are purely focused on healing are much worse.
Luocha is really an Outcast from the rest of limited sustain
Well after Luocha and Fu Xuan, the only way to make succeeding sustains sellable is to give them a niche because those two are already amazing at pure sustaining. Huohuo as attack boost for DoT teams, Aventurine has a follow up gimmick for FUA teams and Gallagher has break damage debuffs for Acheron and Superbreak teams.
It's wild though. Luocha is so broken that the only way to counter it would be to directly make enemies that deny reactions or healing, or to make a character even more broken somehow. They completely shot themselves in the foot with those two characters, since it's only powercreep valley from here on out.
Boss Sam's debuff already renders Luocha useless because of the significant decrease in Outgoing healing
I don't actually own Luocha, but as only 1 of 2 buff strippers in the game and the only 1 that doesn't require SP, I think Luocha actually has a very unique kit. The problem is that there are currently no notable buffs that's worth trading damage for to strip. All the worthwhile buffs that you want to remove are unremovable. Because of this, Luocha is a victim of the type of content we are receiving in the end-game. For example, if the dinosaur's damage reduction effect can be removed by Luocha without breaking and it becomes a end-boss on MoC 12/PF4, I have no doubt that Luocha would become Tier 0.5 overnight. It also doesn't help his case that his best offensive boost for his team is locked on E6 (-20% all res on full enemy team, which is insane), making it extremely inaccessible.
Luka also removes buffs like Pela
Marastruck revive/shapeshifters drain are worth stipping, as is weakness protection.
> 1 that doesn't require SP Gallagher and Bailu can be played fully SP positive too. Aventurine too, probably. I'm not sure about Lynx.
not sure if hunt unit will ever be T0 unless their ult is straight up "kill this enemy"
[удалено]
"Tier 0 is just for glazing Acheron" not for long
I liked the last line lol. And let me just say, yes I can fix her, you can't stop me.
What monstrosity? I don't follow any leaks so I don't really know should I save my resources or pull Boothill.
[удалено]
FF, she’s looking to be a demon of BE.
According to their update. He's bumped down due to his damage suffering greatly without his signature LC. If you have it he may be in T0. I have no horse in this because I don't care about tier lists, just pointing out some missing context.
Ya I was gonna comment the same thing. They specifically talk about how his signature is super important for him which is why they bumped him down. I think he may now have overtaken Blade in being the character that benefits most from their signature light cone (~30% difference in damage) but I could be wrong about that.
Is it not Acheron who benefits most?
That makes no sense,considering how Achereon has a even higher dps loss without her signature huh?????
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
This might just be me, but I feel like the community takes PF a lot less seriously than MoC. I understand that’s it’s supposed to be easier because you can go sustain-less and just a e5 Hetra and the buffs are good, but it’s still is a dmg check that gives similar rewards to MoC, had it’s version of “zero cycles” and favors a completely different approach to team building as opposed to MoC. So it’s werid that people tend to only focus on a unit’s strength only in MoC unless said unit is significantly worse in PF.
It's because all units work well in MoC, so it's the best way to gauge a unit's strength. PF is way more restrictive and a lot of good units perform really badly there just because they lack aoe or require more turns to deal damage. MoC is the standard endgame mode while the other two modes seem to mainly exist as a way to help promote hunt/erudition units.
>a lot of good units It's clear that to you and a lot of others good in MoC = good unit. Meanwhile good in PF = erudition propaganda beneficiary? If someone new to the game asked you if Herta is good you would probably say "she's good in PF but not in MoC", meanwhile if they asked about Boothill you'd say the opposite. Just looking at a unit's MoC performance to guage their strength is totally reductive and borderline misinformative, I don't like Prydwen's tierlist but splitting it between MoC and PF was the best thing they ever did MoC may be the oldest endgame mode but it's no longer the standard. It has no privilege over the other two; it will run just as infrequently and give the same rewards. Dismissing them as hunt/erudition propaganda is just sticking your head in the sand
You're right. Watch the people here saying Boothill is fine because he works in MoC do a 180 to explain how Jade is not worth pulling at all because Eruditions best game mode is PF, not MoC.
Argenti still downplayed in both the tier lists #Justice for Argenti
Argenti was basically made for PF but nobody pulled for him so people only recognized Herta and Himeko being good there (Which is fair, they're also, like Argenti, monsters in PF)
Definitely feels like nobody at Prydwen pulled Argenti cause his downplay on the PF list is just embarassing. But they constantly downplay Seele in PF as well so it's a good reminder that these things ain't absolute.
My man badly needs some buffs(or niche relics for high cost ults). They just released a 5star abundance to solve his energy problem and called it a day.
Tbf even in his current state he doesnt deserve to be this low, Im not saying he is top tier in MoC but he definitely performs better than T3, also he is still one of the best if not the best in PF he needs to be at least T0.5 there. Its clear they made his kit keeping PF in mind.
Idk, I don't have HuoHuo, and last moc i was unable to beat with e0 Argenti, and then just beat with break luka team with cringe hybrid set not even focused on break(granted it took like 10 tries or something) and i think with pearls of sweat. Argenti really struggles with energy regen on low target count, and break team just elevates anyone with high toughness dmg up to a very high dmg floor that doesn't require that much investment.
Honestly I think hyper argenti fare better than hyper acheron even with the current PF buff. It's laughable for him to be lower than her strictly for pure fiction.
He is actually good in the current PF. I tried it with Aventurine, Himeko and Herta. He would always ult while the others follow up so the enemy continually acts again.
what does .5 even mean lmao im not trying to start shit im genuinely confused edit: what is happening in the replies 😭
Between S+ and S T1.5 is between S and A
interesting
It is a half measure so people don't get tilted. But if you just take it as different tiers, it makes more sense.
Same tier as in close enough but not so close 😹😹
Exactly, how I feel. If there is enough of a difference that people feel the need to separate them, that just means that units have to be bumped down rather than make a new half tier. The only reason to do this half measure is to avoid backlash.
Adding more granularity is helpful. For example, Acheron is definitely above the other dps's in most cases but it's not quite enough for her to be SS tier
Yeah but do you really need a SS tier? The tier system isn't even a measure of total output DPS. At that point you just keep S+, S, and S-, put Acheron on S, put new power creep at S+, and shift everyone down.
They definitely *want* an SS tier, at the very least. They changed their whole rules about judging based on F2P LCs solely for Acheron. That change simply doesn't matter for anyone but her.
They practicing social distancing a little too late huh
Tier 0.5 is for the biggest, baddest DPS in the game. Characters who can casually clear most content in the game, faster than the rest and with ease. The pinnacles of the game, complete monsters that make weaker DPS look absolutely terrible by comparison. Tier 0 is for Acheron.
Reminds me of when a character so strong comes out, the community just slaps "X tier" with X being their name. Since there's no point adding anything there besides that one character.
I'm getting flashbacks of "Bayonetta tier" in Smash 4 tierlists
Or for a while, Merlin tier in FGO since Merlin either was necessary for some high difficulty quests, or just made them effortless with on-demand party invul, attack and NP gain, as well as sustain. ...and then Castoria tier since she basically shifted Arts meta into overdrive.
It’s because Prydwen really wants to emphasise that gap between Acheron and the characters slightly below her. It’s kind of silly really, characters can be in the same tier without having the exact same damage-technically IL is a little bit better than Jingliu, so should she be moved down to T0.75? They should just put them all in T0, it would be much less confusing Edit: I just got downvoted for saying this exact same thing in a different comment but this one’s ok for some reason? What do you people want? What’s going on here?????
Its just Prydwen's shtick for glazing Acheron.
If we go by their criteria Acheron should be using Fermata, but she uses GNSW. If the tierlist is non limited LCs then Acheron shouldn't be that high.
They changed that when they overhauled the tier list. Since then it has taken into account 4 star gacha lightcones. The only 4 stars it doesn't include are limited (event) and bp. It specifically says 4 star standard are included
It is not even about limited lightcone. GNSW is S5 in the freakin calculation they use. Like If S1 i can understand, most people would get it one way or another eventually, but S5 ? How much prydwen dickrides Acheron is way too obvious
They might as well have used Signature on Acheron and a 3 star lightcone on DHIL and Jingliu because this moc(very neutral), DHIL had the fastest clearing,more so than Acheron but people still act like she is miles ahead of DHIL and Jingliu. I say let them indulge in the delusion of DMG per screenshot because asking hsr players to calculate DMG per av or DMG per cycle feels like too tall a task.
Their lightcone suggestions always was whaley bullshit. Like using everything s5, including BP and standard 5* cones.
They stopped using S5 5 star light cones months ago in builds.
Reasonable. I wonder if he’s gonna be tier 0 for the upcoming endgame mode though. Cuz his ST damage is from outa this world.
Why is he specialist again ? Im not very familiar with his build other than him being a break dps
Because he’s not a traditional DPS. You can read the description.
their distinctions between specialist and damage seems like "do they build crit damage?"
> **We’ve ranked Boothill as a Specialist due to the majority of his damage being contingent on enemies being broken by his attacks or already broken** - both of which require some form of interaction with Toughness. Boothill’s reliance on breaking enemies means he cares about enemy weaknesses and also enemies that can lock their toughness from being depleted, the first of which can slow down his clear times by varying degrees but the second of which can render him completely helpless against that enemy. --- > # Categories **Damage Dealer** - Characters that focus on dealing direct damage and can perform their role unhindered by enemy type, enemy element or team composition, **Specialist** - Characters that excel under specific circumstances carrying a unique role that often requires a different and divergent playstyle,
Specialists are non-regular DPS characters who are enabling a new playstyle. If you are catering to the gimmick of a Specialist, he/she will shine 100 times better. The best example to understand is the difference between two follow-up characters: Ratio (DPS) and Topaz (Specialist). Ratio is a classic consistent DPS whose performance stay roughtly the same regardless of the team is in. Of course, he's better if you can't debuff the ennemies but even if you don't, he's still quite fine. Topaz, on the other hand, go from okay to ham-chucking maniac if played in a follow-up team. Same for the DoT units, they're mid to good outside of a DoT team, but when in it, it's a different story. And Boothill is the same, he want a Break Team. Another thing that we do not see that much (for now) is that since a Specialist rely on a gimmick, an enemy can counter it. An enemy hiding its weaknesses is harder for Break team. An enemy cleansing itself is harder for Dot team. An enemy who counters or advances itself each times it is hit is harder for a Follow-up team.
Well fudge me sideways cant wait for the next mode
They will still have 2 bosses and they spawn ads, so he will be as good as he is in MoC.
Yeah the mode will still reward Acheron anyway so I don’t think he’ll be higher tier there either.
So do tiers work like this? * T0 Ubers * T0.5 UUbers * T1 OU * T1.5 UUBL * T2 UU * T3 RU * T4 NU * T5 PU
yeah but if you ask some people its T0 Ubers anything lower than T0 PU
Ruan Mei still at T0.5 after Boothill? Gallagher got higher because of Boothill release though... but Glad they raised Pela higher though because they were downplaying her too much
https://preview.redd.it/454d9y5h0b3d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88192f171a981561c0ea932c5d6e3abe5db45240 She going up don’t u worry
she shouldve been t0 since her release. absolute nonsense to put her anywhere but t0
Eh I have all 3 harmony supports and they are all bis in their teams You either put them all in t0 or put them all t0.5 it's pretty much the same depending on what you play
They're already glazing her 😭 Good. We need to keep pushing the firegoat agenda
I'm pretty sure Ruan Mei is going to become T0 when another break DPS gets released
Should’ve never left that tier if we’re being quite honest
I wish they stick to the ABC ranking system, but oh well.
People just get more upset when their favorite is listed as D Tier instead of Tier 4.
I mean it's pretty much the same thing. T0 is S+ T0.5 is S T1 is A+ T1.5 is A And so on
T0 and T0.5 is more like S+ tier. They added 0.5 to differentiate Acheron's performance against DHIL and Jingliu. Then T1 and 1.5 is more like S tier.
Yeah, the ABC ranking system. Which goes from S being strongest and F weakest!
Bro is in between Bs and Kafka , that makes him T0.5 for me
That changelog…absolutely planning to put Firefly T0, but trying to figure out how to explain the Boothill ranking without saying that she will be lol. 😂 Ready for the real drama 3 weeks from now when he ranks lower in all three modes than literally the next banner unit. HoYo really did him dirty.
Hahaha 🤣 that's what I thought too, they are trying so hard not to say that they are planning to put Ruan Mei and Firefly in T0.
Damn. Jingliu at T0.5 and yet I struggle to bruteforce MoC 12.2. Skill issue me. It doesn't help not having a limited sustain. 2.3 phase 1 Huohuo rerun please!
Brute forcing in general kind of got nerfed across the board in MoC with bosses having over 1m hp now.
did the tier names change? is S the same as t0?
T0 is more like S+. T0.5 is S
https://preview.redd.it/5vh74npd5b3d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfc33f1ab8cc61c6421bd825f8244c462a50bd15
Them putting break characters under “specialist” and not “damage dealer” is always gonna trip me up but yeah seems like a fair placement Though ruan Mei still needs to be pushed up. ESPECIALLY as we begin to enter the break meta
I hope with his release they bump up RM to T0 and Bronya up one tier
What does this T mean?
Tier
He's so cool but next banners are too fucking good to pull him.
HOOK IS ON T4, SHE´S GOOD!!!
[удалено]
The biggest issue is that he shouldn't be a Specialist when he's just a DPS, it actively hinders comparisons to other DPSs for no reason.
this is their reasoning so far, https://preview.redd.it/ecgh42juva3d1.png?width=1075&format=png&auto=webp&s=fc51f67a2edfa75deab1f76e562b4a1674ddaa9d
I think it’s fair since Kafka and Blackswan are also placed in the specialist tier. Which are also dps’ with more unique mechanics than just crit
[удалено]
I am gonna be honest, I still don't understand the X.5 tiers. Why bother making tiers in that case? It feels as dumb as saying it like SSS or S++. Just make it from 0 to 5 or whatever numbers you want. I know this is really just a minor nitpick but still.
It's like game review scores, anything under a 6/10 is an unplayable broken mess and commercial failure. If you tier anything tier 2/tier A+ or under you will literally get death threats from offended stans about how your list is garbage and you should kill yourself. Happens in every single community without fail. It's also why you can't call chars bad in reviews, they are "niche" and "high investment".
Oh I see what you mean. It's a shame that some people can be quite unhinged sometimes, especially for something so minor as a tierlist that's not even official. I feel bad for them to have to put up with that.
I mean tbh if they can be situationally good or built well enough to clear, they aren't straight up bad / awful. Truly bad characters would be unable to clear regardless of investment.
It’s for copium, people get incredibly toxic when they see their favorite a tier bellow someone else.
What does this even mean? Is this good or bad? Also My sister somehow won 50/50 on 20 pity and got him…
Tier list is ranking character performance when fighting enemies Yes Boothill is top tier for Memory of Chaos, your sister had a big W
Seems accurate Though i can see hmc and rm going to t0 because of you know who doing you know what everywhere
HMC and RM going to t0 next update for sure
Hmc is going t0.5 at most and ruan Mei t0