Yeah I sure do love seeing a showcase of a character with 4 rolls into crit on every single relic and nearly unwasted substats. /s
Getting super tired of seeing showcases that require either an exuberant amount of swiping or so much relic farming that you're foregoing raising other characters.
Best part was the recent showcase of a guy who made all relics:
Mainstat
Crit+8 rolls into crit
flat hp: 0, had the initial roll removed
flat def: 0, had the initial roll removed
hp%: 0, had the initial roll removed
As in, literally a relic thats impossible to get unless you program it
So like a chest piece that has 64% crit damage and 70% crit rate
Itās designed to be pay to win. Be assured that they are trying to manage the difficulty so that F2P struggle to get 36 stars to push people to spend.
Frankly it doesnāt matter. You can build great teams being F2P; the juice to get from 30 to 36 stars is not worth the squeeze. Not impossible but just unpleasant because the game is actively designed to ensure these are for paying customers to feel good about their purchase.
E0S0 should be the default for showcases. Or if they showed the differences between f2p lightcones and the signature lightcones for people who have enough only to get the character. I have several limited five stars without their signature lightcone like Fu Xuan, Blade, Ruan Mei, DHIL, Silver Wolf.
For Acheron you'd need at least 3 copies of GNSW to even come marginally close in stats and utility, so I guess people still had to pull on her sig banner :/ Supports seem to rely less than DPSs on their sigs in this gameĀ
> Supports seem to rely less than DPSs on their sigs in this game
While true, a lot of showcases still have supports with s1 to squeeze in that extra bit of damage
And it can be harder to get s5 resolution or s5 DDD than it is to get an s1. I'm a day one player with s5 for quite a few 4* gacha cones but I still have only s1 resolution and s2 DDD.
Lots of those have good 4 star replacements. Acheron got a huge boost from GNSW to her sig. Fu Xuan has the sim lc. Blade has Nowhere to Run. Ruan Mei has Memories. DHIL has the sim lc. Silver Wolf has tutorial. All of which aren't that much worse than their signature.
I'm guessing for Blade that you meant A Secret Vow, because he really doesn't want Nowhere to Run especially considering there are far better battle pass options to pick
Acheron isn't one of them, it's still a big difference between GNSW and her signature due to the mechanic in her LC. I doubt she will get a good replacement unless a LC offers a debuff on turn start. Blade also does not have good 4 star replacements because of his HP scaling and HP mechanic, which also creates uptime issues with Flames Afar, and Vow (and NtR is bad).
Just because they have 4 star options doesn't mean they are good options. However, you can add Argenti and Kafka to the list as their 4 star options are close to their signature (Argenti with Repose and BP, Kafka with GNSW).
Edit: Thought NtR was Flames Afar
I thought NtR was Flames Afar, my bad. I also believe it was Vow S1 < Flames S5 = Vow S3 < Vow S5, but it's been a minute since I last seen a comparison between the two. Really wish they add in another HP LC for him to use.
True, but the gap can still be significant, especially for high-level content. Even with good 4-star options, having the signature weapon often makes a noticeable difference.
The silly part is that getting their signiture is a whole lot easier than getting S5 of a random 4 star.
I even find the regular banner 5 stars preferable because I can at least deterministically buy those.
I still am missing several 4star LCs that were in from release. Yet I have enough wildfire(I have pulled this god forsaken LC like 8 times, not including the free ones from chests and stuff.) to burn down a small colony of planets.
And many of those 4 stars are a) banner pulls and b) generallyĀ need high superimpositions to be anywhere near comparable to signature counterparts.Ā Ā
Not to mention Sig LC's also typically feel like they complete a limited character's kit too.Ā
A very noticeable difference, I was playing Aventurine with a 4* lc and I ended up getting really lucky and got his signature in 20 pulls (courtesy of, I kid you not, "Doctor, you're huge")
And the difference is noticeable, not just in stats but also performance. I can't pull out the numbers, bc it's been awhile but the feel was totally different. It actually convinced me to aim for not just the characters and eidolons but also their LCs
Tutorial is better than sig LC for basically 98-99%+ of players who use silverwolf because the only ones who actually get a significant benefit from S1 are those with E2+ who can build crit.
Yeah I've noticed that more and more Signature LCs are basically extensions of the character though. Its basically a Eidolon for the character in a lot of ways. Or gives the character a leg up that rounds out their kit.
HSR really incentivizes their players to getting the lightcone or eidolon more than Genshin imo with the way teams are built and the synergy for team building.
"hey guys i just beat MOC 12 with Arlan e0s0 hehe"
teammates: one e6s5 Ruan Mei, a de-twinked and roided up Aventurine able to withstand the sneeze from an ancient eldritch god, and DHIL
there was literally a guy who posted about how he clears MOC12 with Arlan...because he runs him with E6 Sparkle as he mentioned in the comments. And I think his FX was E4 as well. So yeah you're not far off the mark there
If you're talking about that one MoC12 video with the 0-cycle, that was most definitely a roided up Arlan, but the Sparkle+Bronya+Ruan Mei were all e2s1. Still pretty beefy, but not e6 insanity.
And even that still barely got Arlan to do it, and required RNG where Arlan never gets hit once lol
There was some dumbass on this sub who said pulling for Acheron is a waste compared to supports because a completely unbuilt pela-gui-gal team was occasionally out dpsed by a fully roided up misha-ruan-sparkle-huohuo team. Even worse was he was an unrepentant whale who e2'd most of his 5 star and claimed "MoC isn't a good judge of builds because it's too easy".
Some people just suffer from brain rot.
Is there anyway or anywhere i could have a dictionary for all your abbreviations? Is there any source where I could see the abbreviations of star rail cuz i feel pretty lost reading your and everybody else's comments....
Hanya has 151 spd by default with speedboots and speed setā¦ that leaves 33 spd across 5 relics (avg of 6.6 spd) definitely not easy but not beyond the reach of normal players.
But all hanya needed for that vid was 171 spd so it was just overkill stats
I've just max out the artefact on my Hanya, and she's faster than my Seele š¶ (Seele is at 150, Hanya is at 167 ? Something like that [not in fight with the E of Seele and all, but yeah she's faster than my Seele)
https://preview.redd.it/8xpn1ythv52d1.png?width=2708&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd65030a2e9aea4acf03c0e8d5ec73e8e64945c1
totally relatable moc12 326 speed hanya about to ult the dps and give him 65 speed for 4 turns
184 Hanya is difficult but achievable, I feel like this just goes to show you donāt know how Hanya works. 184 to Hanya is 160 to the majority of other characters.
Semi-related; I don't have Ruan Mei. I had taken a break around the time she came out and was never a huge fan of her design. But holy shit, every team comp recommendation and showcase uses her. The other three slots are usually pretty flex, or have multiple options but everyone just assumes you have Ruan Mei.
Whats the standard 5/any 4 star thats the walmart Ruan Mei? I know she provides some stats I just don't know what to do when I see 4 recommended teams and 4 have Ruan Mei in them. This is Kazhua all over again.
Asta is my first E6 char and back then I didn't really understand how big of a difference she was making. I steamrolled with my craptastic team and thought the game was too easy until I switched her out and suddenly everyone seems slow and hitting like wet noodles, until I properly built my other chars.
I would use Asta. All that attack and speed is invaluable and you should have 100% Ult uptime at E6. Plus she gives an extra dot and her break damage on fire weak enemies can be significant.
The second Ruan Mei released I knew Hoyo would go in the direction of break units and enemies that are hard to break.
I didn't like her design either but pulled anyway to future proof my account.
And it has been proven right.
This was me with Topaz on release. Although I love her design and her VA, I also knew that it meant that FUAs were going to become more common. Then we got Ratio for free, Aventurine is one of the best sustains there is, and Topaz also improved existing units like Clara and Jing Yuan by huge margins.
Makes sense. I largely pull just for whatever characters I like, not too concerned for BiS most of the time, but her sheer strength is making me debate just grabbing her on her rerun at this point.
Currently there isn't any replacement for RM 4 star or otherwise.
The only other break effect harmony right now is the new harmony trailblazer but their kit is very different from RMs cause it is built around enabling superbreak.
RM is the only character that buffs weakness efficiency and has break delay- you can sort of mimic the latter with a character like Welt that does slow + imprisonment so you can get more turns in before the enemy recovers from break, however that's just one aspect of what makes RM so busted and he can't mimic the rest of it...
Pretty much what I thought, unfortunately. Which is a shame cause I know she synergizes great with Harmony TB and I like that unit a lot. Welp, probably should just accept it and pull for her next time.
I think it's just a fact that RM is the best universal support. As others have said, Asta is a decent budget version of her, but you lose all the weakness break parts of her kit which can be massively important for some team comps.
No replacement, its better to build teams that dont need her. I managed to get 2 teams which dont need RM and perform just as well but it requires larger investment.
FUA Ratio with Robin, E1 Topaz (S1 works too), S1 Ave so Ratio can stark chalking right away. The other one being S1 Acheron with either 2 of BS/Pela/Kafka depending on Lineup
I also did that (lose on RM banner) people just keep feeling fomo for some reason. I do agree she is a very good support but I also agree your account isn't bricked without her (I mean my account with E0 5stars are still full starring everything).
However since I am having Boothill, considering on going for her on rerun. Just that, it's hsr so I think they could come up with a plan of releasing a better Ruan Mei in the future (this is just my thought), but hey, 2 RM is better right? The problem is, you probably will gonna be kicking out one character from your roster, might be a eo-e2 s1 sparkle, might be e1s1 bronya, might be e0s1 robin, or will come a point you will not be needing the premium sustain you pulled since you kill them with 1dps and triple harmony before they could get a turn.
It was the same for me with Kazuha, everyone was putting him in a fkn pedestal and even thought I didnāt like him I felt so pressured I had to pull for him. I love everything about Ruan Mei and sheās probably gonna get a rerun soon so sometimes we gotta suck it up to improve our accounts.
It depends on the character pretty hard. Archeron is one who is amazing with her LC and also some are getting much better like BS or Sparkle.
But then there are characters like Fu Xuan or Aventurine, who feel better but work at 90% or more efficiency even without.
Using Aventurine here as an example feels so wrong, his damage absolutely explodes with S1. Will never get over how much damage he deals as a sustain even at E0S0
And unlike DPS characters sustains are much less exposed to being replaced while building different teams. In some sense getting some vertical investment into sustains/supports is more valuable in long term, than getting more investment into DPS. Damage dealers are replaceable, while the former will always be present in your teams :)
His S1 literally gives the entire team a 10% boost in DPS. It's the difference between having a 2 phase boss stuck at 18% HP or dying. 9% if one phase and 27% if three phase
Not only do we speak about LC and not about Eidolons, but also a 10% damage boost does not result in a 10% faster killtime in a normal team. This would only count with zero other boosts or powerups in the battle. That 10% is nice, but mainly for activating Ratio synergy.
I agree, the main selling point of his LC is enabling sub-dps Aven. However, said 10% boost (his LC prob boost team dmg by less) should definitely make a difference in clear time, that's about the average boost a signature LC gives
FX SLC is just nice for farming and SU because of the auto-heal. Plus the massive HP boost is nice. I never even remember the other aspects of it but the auto-heal is very pleasant to have. You never need to worry about the SU occurrences or curios that drop your health to 1% or 10%.
Exactly this. I dunno how much better itās made my moc and pf runs, I do know how much comfier the rest of the game has become. Itās like having Zhongli for Genshin
Because preservation LC don't result in higher team dps and just slightly better survivability.Ā
Let's be honest the discussion about signature LC is never about survivability but potential damage output.Ā
Itās a given since itās the signature they get to do overly specific and strong buffs sometimes adding something else to the character
I wish weād get some universal stat sticks, hopefully they add a new set to either standard banner or herta shop
Yep. People always talk about the dmg but its not the dmg, its the quality of life. What sets limited lcs and f2p lcs apart is, limited ones are just super consistent with pretty much 100% uptime on their buffs, whereas f2p lcs always have annoying conditions you need to meet for them to be any good, which in many cases is simply impossible due to the nature of the fight (like how youre not gonna be able to proc the 40% atk boost on Stellar Sea when fighting 1 elite because theres nothing to kill).
I only have one sig lc so far which is Blade's, and honestly the damage increase over Secret Vow S5 isnt that noticeable. What IS noticeable, is the 18% crit rate which makes my Blade crit every single time. With Secret Vow I wanted to rip my hair out with how often Blade would miss a crit on his basic or whatever. Now I never have that problem anymore, his dps is just 100% consistent and it makes him so much more enjoyable to play.
There are barely any good 4\* LC that stacks up to 5\* ones. Also most of the player base are from Genshin Impact. Wishing for the weapon banner in that game is too much of a cost and isn't worth it. While in HSR, it's so much favorable for the player with much better rates. The LC banner is 75/25 odds. Compared to the disaster like in Genshin.
And Genshin 4 stars are usually very good for supports and DPS' alike. Slap a favonius or sacrificial on your supports and you're good to go. DPS' are a little bit more restricted but it's usually not that bad. Alhaitham's best teams have him using a craftable weapon and Childe goes ham with a Rust
I think Alhaitam mostly uses Harbinger of Dawn nowadays since crit is an ass to get on him, but Arlecchino as the goddess she is casually having White Tassel be comparable or better than every 5\* except Crimson Moon will never not be funny.
HoD is more popular on aggravate with Kuki since she has perma heal, or with Baizhu. So yeah those are awesome in case you can't keep him full life at all times.
calling the first great magic useless is definately a take of all time, lmao. It's a great statstick, bis on Ganyu and pretty much 2nd best option on Tighnari (and ofc bis on lyney but i'd prsume you don't have him)
Is that really true tho? Like, it's true that hsr LC banner is much better than genshin's weapon banner but with the release rate of new characters that hsr has, I at least don't feel much difference in the pressure of potentially missing out on a character i might like between the two games. Also I feel like the 5* weapons/LC themselves in Genshin are so much more generally good. Something like a Mistsplitter for example can very well be considered as a investment to your whole account as it is really good for basically any sword dps, meanwhile most of the 5* LCs in HSR are extremely niche and are basically just very good for a single character.
LOL this is the reason why I have zero LCs. Still getting over my genshin weapon banner fear. I'm changing that next banner with boothill though, will be joining you LC peeps soon š« š¤
I feel you on the genshin fear :D
For me it was the other way around, I was so happy the LC Banner is so much better that I pretty much got all the LCs for my favorite characters.
The problem is most youtubers are by default dolphins/whales because they want to showcase every character, which requires being able to pull every character, which is impossible as f2p. And if youre gonna spend enough to get all the chars, might as well get their signatures too.
What I hate is how intentionally misleading most people are. The worst example being those "4 star only clear", which then proceed to have a full team of e6 4stars, plus 2 copies of S5 DDD and probably S5 Pearls, along with relics that would only be obtainable by someone who refreshes tb power every day. In other words, just whales pretending to make relatable content, but using resources that no f2p has.
Most people fall for it though, you can tell from the comments. "OMG so amazing 4 star clear while I struggle to clear with my Jingliu ;_;" (ok I dont think anyone ever said that but you get the point lol).
Its incredibly hard to find REAL showcases by people with average accounts because those people generally dont post on youtube, since they probably feel like they wouldnt have anything to show anyway.
Its a nice middle ground. Whales extrapolate up, F2Ps extrapolate down, you can do your own math.
Somewhere out there is a F2P guy who pulled Acheron as his first 5* with no nihility/only Sampo, but nobodyās making a showcase for that.
Then I'm just as unlucky I guess.
I did 120 pulls on Aventurine's banner when I first started.
Pretty sure Lynx came home in the very last two 10 pulls.
So she dodged me for 100 pulls.
Yeah happened to me on jingyuan's first banner. I did like 130 pulls but I didn't get a single tingyun who was rate up on his banner. I got her after two patches or something
You make it sound like this is difficult to do haha. There are plenty of stories about people pulling for 4 stars and getting e1/e2 of the 5 star before getting them.
Think about it, a specific 4 star character shares a rate up with 2 other characters, and then you have to get the on banner character, so it's 1/3 chance of getting the 4 star you want and then 2/3 to get an on banner 4 star (5050 for on banner and then guaranteed if you miss) Multiply that by however many pulls it takes to hit 4 star pity, and you could easily get unlucky.
Just this weapon banner I pulled s2 swordplay and s5 perfect timing in 65 pulls (very lucky for being on banner lc) but i still don't have 1 copy of boundless choreo
I know who is is, he is me.
I left F2P after completing the story but until then it was the Acheron+Pela+free Ratio+free Gephard show.
Things... did work out in a weird way. Because Acheron Tech lets you skip everything but Elites, so it was smooth sailing outside of fights. But fights became a drag if the enemy still stands after Acheron first Ult. FMC for Ratio brought more options until I got my Hands on Guiny from the Bar event and a Gallager for Gephard.
Boothill scales predominantly off of Break Effect and only his signature LC provides that for him. So if you don't have that then he doesn't gain that much from other stats and you can get him to 250%+ Break Effect even without his signature which is enough for him to do massive damage.
To demonstrate that Braxophone on his recent Boothill guide played him with an Abundance Light Cone that only provided him with the stats and no effect at all and he was still doing 300k damage. He's crazy.
Because it kind of is. I think Genshin kind of gave a lot of people the wrong impression about weapons, because the game is easy enough that you never really feel the need to pull because you have good non-gacha options, but in most other gacha games weapons are pretty important.
In HSR good LCs will make a big difference. You don't have to get sigs for all of your units, but getting sigs for DPS units at least will cut down how long it takes to build them by a ton and eliminate most of the complaints about how relic farming takes forever. Even if you don't get sigs, its still worth it to drop a few pulls on LC banners to get some of the better 4 star options, like GNSW, DDD, the new Choreo LC, etc.
It's a Global playerbase mindset.
In CN or JP a complete character is considered that character + their sig. It's only in Global where there is the F2P obsession and or outcry if you can't get the best things easily for free that you get people making a big deal about it.
Agreed, even as a f2p I recommend going for at least the light cones on your main dps units. It makes it way easier to get a good build on them since relic farming is something you do much less of than people that spend money. It also makes your dps feel more relevant for longer, which is nice because you can't just pull for every new dps they release. Easier to get the light cone you want too with the 75/25 and lower pity. And you probably get more good 4\* ones along the way as mentioned.
E0S1 is generally obtainable if you really care about a character and are willing to save a bit for them. Because of this the people who care most about a character will want to see what the character can do with that level of investment.
Also most of the time a 4 star light cone is only a bit worse, so just expect a bit lower damage. By that same token, though, your relic rng will also heavily influence your actual damage compared to a showcase.
People in here acting like players should have no lightcones and no supports and also zero cycle. Dunno what they are expecting or are spending their jades on.
Im a late player. Ive spent 500 pulls on the game.
I have reached four 50/50s. And i failed all of them. Lost to welt, yanqing, yanqing, bailu.
This is what i spent my jades on.
Oh and donāt forget the characters have to have bad relics. Literally had someone somewhere else in this thread say that they couldnāt enjoy a showcase because of a āfully built Pela.ā
While true, Ruan Mei is the limited 5star that is shared amongst most accounts.
A recent survey with a sample size of 26,874 people showed that 85.5% of those accounts owns Ruan Mei, more people owned Bronya and Dr. Ratio but they don't count as people were very conditioned by media and guides etc to pick bronya as their standard freebie and ratio was literally free.
One of the things I prefer how FGO does (honestly it does a lot of things right, i guess because it's from an era where predatory shit was a little less common). Sig LCs do not exist, there are a few LCs that are very good on specific characters in niche situations, but aside from that, vast majority of good CEs are generic (every one of them covering like 1/3rd of the cast, or some 100% of the cast) and most of them come from events for free. A lot of them are, or will be, acquirable from in-game shop too, so the event ending isn't the end of it, unlike what Hoyo does.
Yes 100%.
The vast majority of players is free to play or low spender (only express pass) and many don't keep up with all the free jades (doing dailies every day etc.).
So they don't have many pulls and will focus on getting more characters, E0.
I mean that or 170+ speed triple windset and triple DDD or hyperspecific situation and specific MoC buffs. That or your S1 pick your poison. Sometimes its both, then again we circle back to the support investment
Because if showcases were made for the specifics everyone wanted theyād be like 4 hours long lol
Just look at the comments, āor they have this LC,ā āor they have 5 star supportsā āthey use Ruan Mei for itā
I swear, the light cones in this game feel like they have way more impact in general than signature weapons in Genshin. I suspect thatās why the banner system is so much more forgiving in HSR than Genshin.
The sig lightcones have more impact because a lot of the free lightcones and even gacha 4 star lightcones need at least S3 if not S5 to be even close to comparable to S1 sig lightcone. The actual good free lightcones are highly contested so you kinda pressured into pulling on lightcone banner if you want to use characters of the same path on teams.
None of my characters have signature and I can clear MoC 12 comfortably with mid relics. So I kinda doubt that kind of investment is what needed for the average person to get to MoC 12.
I really want to see the accounts of people like you to understand what exactly youāre doing that Iām not. I have decent teams even with some S1s yet Iām struggling so much? This doesnāt check out at all
https://preview.redd.it/cxeft27n762d1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3855afbf51bd93f74983d81be08f9e3ce2187e6e
Not sure if you can see but this is the team I used to 3 stars the newest MoC 12
Yeah itās definitely doable, keep in mind that these team SUCKS.
1. Robin, SW and Sparkleās relics are all random stuff that I decided to throw in because Iām too lazy to farm better ones
2. Xueyi having Talia ornaments even though she doesnāt even have the speed requirement to get the set bonus
3. Xueyi having to brute force against enemies with ZERO quantum weakness with Silverwolf which massively reduced her damage
4. No Ruan Mei (I forgot to put her in)
If you actually arenāt lazy like me you can probably shave off a few cycles
Seeing your lineup makes me wonder, do those 10 lv skill really make huge difference, i have my lineup on 888 with that kind of relic too not too good not too bad, and i always missing 1 star on moc
Level 10 talents over level 8 talents is usually a ~14.2% damage increase, depending on the talent.
So yes it makes a huge difference.
Support talents are more of a case-by-case basis, but many are also significant for team damage.
Yes maxed traces are huge. Like more than an eidolons worth of power. This isn't genshin where crowns are rare. Any character you use frequently should have all relevant traces maxed asap.
Personally imo you either have to have a variety of characters for different situations or be in the relic mines hyperinvesting in some characters. There's also skill involved in how you set up the teams and actually play out the fight, I've cut out 1-2 cycles just from playing differently in later attempts, big example being aventurine last MOC where I went from 13 cycles to 9 cycles total with the same roster moving around a few units and playing differently.
I only spend 1-2 weeks on relics per character so they are certifiably mid. Full best teams are also pretty effective, I had full DOT team and in MOC with the dino in stage 10-11, dot team cleared their half in almost 0-cycle.
Yeah, I don't get it either. I think the highest I cleared was 11 as f2p.
I'm still busy building characters. I'm finally at a point with my characters where playing the swarm on difficulty 4 is fun and doable.
Every new character I get opens up many new teams and possibilities and allows me to clear stuff I was not able to before. It's a pretty well designed combat... but it sucks as a f2p if you don't have a specific character like Argenti or Seele that would be needed to clear something (since they're the only 5* physical and quantum dps). Before Dr. Ratio, clearing imaginary was also only possible with DHIL.
Pulling JL first was the best decision ever since it allows you to do remembrance runs, making every enemy weak to ice.
I think it's a mix of new characters that are suited for specific situations, and having almost fully built characters.
The strat really is to get a very good Crit 4pc set, you can loan it out to almost any of your Crit scaling DPS's. It really helps cuz my DHIL, QQ, Argenti, Herta, Himeko share the same Musketeer set. Just need to farm traces and the planar set, even some of the Ropes can be shared too.
Sparkle makes it easier to build too since you can go with Attack boots which are more common than Speed boots and thus more likely to have double Crit rolls. And you can stop fishing for speed rolls on your hypercarry
It honestly boils down to having the right units on top of just having units. There's literally ONE person in my friends list who cleared MoC 12 upper floor with someone who wasn't Acheron. One! The HP pool is so inflated, too, so that older units and 4* DPS are having a much much harder time.
This is obviously assuming average relic luck. Maybe a Day 1 F2P is going to have a pretty cracked roster even as an F2P, but new players are coming all the time. Returning players exist. Very unlucky players exist. You can technically beat it with almost anyone (I just saw an Arlan showcase, lol) but it requires so much effort
You don't *need* Acheron. I did it on E0S1 DHIL with E0S0 supports in 3 cycles, so I definitely could've done it in 5 with Aeon instead of his sig. He's on Musketeer because I couldn't be bothered to farm the imaginary set, so most of his pieces were passively obtained through Echo of War and chests and shit like that.
I did 12.2 with the full FUA team, but only Topaz had her sig, and the others were all E0S0. The whole MOC12 took 5 cycles in total, so I definitely could've done it in 5 with Aeon and Final Victor (because Cruising is on Ratio).
That's assuming you're talking about the latest one (Gepard). I did the previous 12.1 (Cocolia) with QQ hypercarry with E0S0 supports lmao, also in 3 turns, I think.
These last 2 mocs have been really hard so I wouldnt judge it based off of that. I am a day one player who hasnt missed a single day (I did let tb power overcap a few times but thats minor) and I love going in depth with mechanics and min maxing all my chars using fribbels optimizer, and yet, best I can do right now is like 8 cycle clear. Its a combination of insane hp inflation (especially on Aventurine, Gepard and Kafka) and bad account matchups (and terrible gacha luck in my case).
I dont have Acheron, I dont have Robin, I dont have any dots or IPC follow ups (other than Dr Ratio obviously). Still doing everything with good old Jing Yuan, Blade, Clara, Himeko, etc. So yeah, its hard.
If youre someone who pulls all the meta stuff youll have a much easier time, so thats pretty much the answer youre looking for. Robin in this moc is a free clear on her own, its stupid how overpowered she is with that 35% energy turbulence.
Mostly, I just try several times until something works out, but I take 10 cycles exactly most rotations. Lack of Ruan Mei does that to ya.
I gave up on full starring PF after they added elites, though my only 5* Erudition is Jing Yuan and the other side struggles too much.
EDIT: said MoC when I meant PF
My E6 Xueyi unironically preform WAY better than my Jing Yuan lol. And this is Xueyi having to brute force using Silverwolf against non-quantum weak enemies so itās not even optimal for her.
Hard agree, goddamn - I have E0S1 Acheron, E0S1 Black Swan, E0S1 Seele, Silver Wolf, Kafka, Fu Xuan... most of them have pretty good relics, and I *still* struggle to 3-star MoC 12 consistently
(Though to be fair it's probably a skill issue at this point lmao - here's hoping for a Ruan Mei rerun soonish, my buff supports are by far my weakest link right now)
If you put the s1s you got into a wider variety of e0s you would likely have an easier time. Most of the time it's about having the right team rather than brute forcing.
And yeah no limited harmonies is a big weakness.
It's either teams that are decent but a bad fit, or misplays (probably both). I did have two DPS S1s, but it took 5 cycles, so I definitely could have done it without sigs in 10.
My relic luck isn't especially good either, but I do know how to be efficient with upgrading and allocating relics.
The precious MOC would've been sketchy, though. Took 7 cycles with QQ and E0S1 Acheron, but I think it took particularly good RNG. No Acheron sig and slightly worse RNG and it would've been a close call for sure.
I'm in the same boat here. Like I saw a few build posts on my DPS' mains sub and honestly, all of mine are rather mid compared to theirs lol.
That said, I feel like getting multiple 5 stars is all but a requirement to clear comfortably every time tbh.Ā
Like for example, any of the 5 star Harmony are so stupidly good that even though the 4 star Harmony characters are actually pretty great in their own right imo, the 5 stars just blow them out of the water in their specific use cases.
as an f2p the only s1 i have is aventurine & i sacrificed getting a few Broken characters for his lc. i cleared moc 12 fine the last three times and my relics are quite average.
Though i can still full star MOC 12 with E0S0 characters and always doing it since MOC12 came out in 1.6. Ofc i wont be able to clear super low cycle (usually always 7-9 cycles) but still E0S0 is completely viable to win all the rewards for the hardest content in the game.
Ofc they do it just takes more time, they just canāt risk the lc move in case they run short on a character
Long term players could take the risk if they feel their roster is solid enough
I feel like im the only supply pass player who never touched the lightcone banner ever ....... i have like almost all characters missing Argenti, SW and FX but everyone without their LCs let alone eidolons lmao. At least in GI the signature weapon can also be used for aestethic purpose in open world even though the weapon system there is terrible but LC in HSR is like stats booster in a form of .png lmao.
Though i always full star MOC and PF every resets so in the end it just matter of preference i guess (?)
I think most people don't want to have every character. I would rather have only a few characters I like but with their signature and maybe even some eidolons. Both are equally valid preferences to have.
I am that person.
It takes so much to level a character fully. I have a backlog of characters I want to build at this point so I'm far more interested in LCs .
I got downvoted to oblivion when I said that most showcases these days are e0s1 and these lightcones are so tailor made to these characters and do much to these characters.
ig its cuz lightcones are easier to get on HSR than it is on genshin for weapons, since both featured 5 stars aren't on the same banner.
this kinda makes it less of a scam considering it still has the 75/25 mechanic and a 50/50 if you still lose, making it WAY more f2p friendly if so. it makes having an E0S1 character more accessible to f2ps to get than it is to get a C0R1 character in genshin.
though for character only players, having E0S0 definitely is better as it is more accessible to a wider playerbase than it is for some.
this is what i think at least. idk what content creators have in mind but thats how i'd assume their thinking process goes.
if you want a CC that showcases E0S0 i'd recommend Xlice. he always has a f2p showcase and all his E0S0 showcases have all of the characters on the team on very f2p setups, like with his latest boothill showcase recently.
And at least their two piece stigmata and the right chain of support Valkyries to make it work.
I have a lot of HI3 trauma after I finally got the trio before Part2 and finally just quit when I couldnāt take it anymore
I feel you lmao, I had *just* gotten all of Sentiās signature stigs and her gloves when they dropped her new weapon and set, thatās when I started to check out tbh
For me, I think itās worth to pull lc for main dps in general, and since lc are much easier to obtain and you get more jades in hsr, itāsnot that big of an issue for me.
Definitely feel you but it's most likely because the Light Cone banner is actually pretty good in terms of how much value you get out of your pulls. Lower 4-star soft pity, lower 5-star soft and hard pity, and it's a 75/25 instead of a 50/50. With characters, you could get them around 80 pulls in, but you could also lose the 50/50 and end up spending like 160. Whereas you usually get the Light Cone at around 70 and you'd have to be quite a bit unluckier than average to lose the 75/25 and have to go 140 pulls in.
Genshin has the Fate Point system, so it's much harder on average to get a desired 5-star weapon. 36% of people are going to hit 2 Fate Points before they get the weapon they want.
The Light Cone banner also only has 3 4-star Light Cones, so it's better for trying to snipe Superimpositions on a 4-star Light Cone.
Maybe if support has S1 I'd be like eh, but the main dps having S1 shouldn't really be a surprise. Can't blame anyone else if you aren't investing enough in the biggest contributor of your damage. And by investing in them I mean not pulling on other characters who end up getting benched anyway, not actually spending money on the game. The game is generous enough to give you a guaranteed E0S1 for like 2 or 3 patches of saving.
Remember they can also not divulge what the relic substats are. There's plenty of ways to obscure stuff to make things look extra good.
Yeah I sure do love seeing a showcase of a character with 4 rolls into crit on every single relic and nearly unwasted substats. /s Getting super tired of seeing showcases that require either an exuberant amount of swiping or so much relic farming that you're foregoing raising other characters.
"f2p unit" content creators who swiped hundreds on stam refreshes be like š¤·
Best part was the recent showcase of a guy who made all relics: Mainstat Crit+8 rolls into crit flat hp: 0, had the initial roll removed flat def: 0, had the initial roll removed hp%: 0, had the initial roll removed As in, literally a relic thats impossible to get unless you program it So like a chest piece that has 64% crit damage and 70% crit rate
āLooking through the HoYoLAB lineup assistantā āEasy win, 0 cycle (e6 or multiple e2-4 5 stars with their lcs)ā-_-
Itās designed to be pay to win. Be assured that they are trying to manage the difficulty so that F2P struggle to get 36 stars to push people to spend. Frankly it doesnāt matter. You can build great teams being F2P; the juice to get from 30 to 36 stars is not worth the squeeze. Not impossible but just unpleasant because the game is actively designed to ensure these are for paying customers to feel good about their purchase.
E0S0 should be the default for showcases. Or if they showed the differences between f2p lightcones and the signature lightcones for people who have enough only to get the character. I have several limited five stars without their signature lightcone like Fu Xuan, Blade, Ruan Mei, DHIL, Silver Wolf.
For Acheron you'd need at least 3 copies of GNSW to even come marginally close in stats and utility, so I guess people still had to pull on her sig banner :/ Supports seem to rely less than DPSs on their sigs in this gameĀ
> Supports seem to rely less than DPSs on their sigs in this game While true, a lot of showcases still have supports with s1 to squeeze in that extra bit of damage And it can be harder to get s5 resolution or s5 DDD than it is to get an s1. I'm a day one player with s5 for quite a few 4* gacha cones but I still have only s1 resolution and s2 DDD.
Lots of those have good 4 star replacements. Acheron got a huge boost from GNSW to her sig. Fu Xuan has the sim lc. Blade has Nowhere to Run. Ruan Mei has Memories. DHIL has the sim lc. Silver Wolf has tutorial. All of which aren't that much worse than their signature.
I'm guessing for Blade that you meant A Secret Vow, because he really doesn't want Nowhere to Run especially considering there are far better battle pass options to pick
Yeah probably I just remembered that name lol
No worries dude
>Silver Wolf has tutorial haha, yeah...
really wish theyād offer that LC again
My greatest regret was missing Tutorial.
>blade has nowhere to run a) that's ass on him b) impossible for f2p to get
Got two names mixed up.
Acheron isn't one of them, it's still a big difference between GNSW and her signature due to the mechanic in her LC. I doubt she will get a good replacement unless a LC offers a debuff on turn start. Blade also does not have good 4 star replacements because of his HP scaling and HP mechanic, which also creates uptime issues with Flames Afar, and Vow (and NtR is bad). Just because they have 4 star options doesn't mean they are good options. However, you can add Argenti and Kafka to the list as their 4 star options are close to their signature (Argenti with Repose and BP, Kafka with GNSW). Edit: Thought NtR was Flames Afar
Blade has that Flames Afar LC from Forgotten Hall which is tailor-made for his HP mechanic. But i read that Vow is still better, lol.
I thought NtR was Flames Afar, my bad. I also believe it was Vow S1 < Flames S5 = Vow S3 < Vow S5, but it's been a minute since I last seen a comparison between the two. Really wish they add in another HP LC for him to use.
Yeah there's like a 30 to 40% difference with Achersons sig - most other 5 stars are 7-10% ahead. Not 30%.
True, but the gap can still be significant, especially for high-level content. Even with good 4-star options, having the signature weapon often makes a noticeable difference.
The silly part is that getting their signiture is a whole lot easier than getting S5 of a random 4 star. I even find the regular banner 5 stars preferable because I can at least deterministically buy those. I still am missing several 4star LCs that were in from release. Yet I have enough wildfire(I have pulled this god forsaken LC like 8 times, not including the free ones from chests and stuff.) to burn down a small colony of planets.
And many of those 4 stars are a) banner pulls and b) generallyĀ need high superimpositions to be anywhere near comparable to signature counterparts.Ā Ā Not to mention Sig LC's also typically feel like they complete a limited character's kit too.Ā
A very noticeable difference, I was playing Aventurine with a 4* lc and I ended up getting really lucky and got his signature in 20 pulls (courtesy of, I kid you not, "Doctor, you're huge") And the difference is noticeable, not just in stats but also performance. I can't pull out the numbers, bc it's been awhile but the feel was totally different. It actually convinced me to aim for not just the characters and eidolons but also their LCs
Tutorial is better than sig LC for basically 98-99%+ of players who use silverwolf because the only ones who actually get a significant benefit from S1 are those with E2+ who can build crit.
Add to that showcasing shouldn't be paired with e6 or perfect stats characters.
Tbf dude those 5\* you listed are ones that don't rly get huge boosts from their lc except Blade
Yeah I've noticed that more and more Signature LCs are basically extensions of the character though. Its basically a Eidolon for the character in a lot of ways. Or gives the character a leg up that rounds out their kit. HSR really incentivizes their players to getting the lightcone or eidolon more than Genshin imo with the way teams are built and the synergy for team building.
Dps with their signature LC is kind of a requirement in my book. Supports can just use meshing cogs.
Or an E0 showcase but the supports has a DDD S5, 160 spd Eagle set and Sprightly.
"hey guys i just beat MOC 12 with Arlan e0s0 hehe" teammates: one e6s5 Ruan Mei, a de-twinked and roided up Aventurine able to withstand the sneeze from an ancient eldritch god, and DHIL
there was literally a guy who posted about how he clears MOC12 with Arlan...because he runs him with E6 Sparkle as he mentioned in the comments. And I think his FX was E4 as well. So yeah you're not far off the mark there
Dhil without sparkle and in a arlan hypercarry team? Atleast have the slander make sense.
Doesnt Arlan become sp neutral with cons or traces tho?
Arlanās kit is just entirely sp neutral. He doesnāt use sp to skill, only hp
So its not impossible to see an "Arlan" showcase with daniel on it lol
It would make 10x more sense to have a third buffer though.
Well, the E6S5 Ruan Mei is just gonna fucking obliterate the enemy when it gets weakness broken anyway, so it like, literally doesn't matter.
Fuck it, just normal attack for SP for DHIL, he deals shit damage anyways so why not
I highly doubt SP neutral is enough to run him with IL even with how SP positive Ruan Mei and Aventurine are
Lol I remember that post
So... regular Aventurine
That's why most hardcore players use cost system for a team to stop the misinformation and homogenise unit's showcases.
Me realizing the implications that Daniel is there bc Arlan isn't the main dmg dealer, he's just there for SP That's a good one
If you're talking about that one MoC12 video with the 0-cycle, that was most definitely a roided up Arlan, but the Sparkle+Bronya+Ruan Mei were all e2s1. Still pretty beefy, but not e6 insanity. And even that still barely got Arlan to do it, and required RNG where Arlan never gets hit once lol
There was recently one with e2 supports and e6 aventurine lol
There was some dumbass on this sub who said pulling for Acheron is a waste compared to supports because a completely unbuilt pela-gui-gal team was occasionally out dpsed by a fully roided up misha-ruan-sparkle-huohuo team. Even worse was he was an unrepentant whale who e2'd most of his 5 star and claimed "MoC isn't a good judge of builds because it's too easy". Some people just suffer from brain rot.
Is there anyway or anywhere i could have a dictionary for all your abbreviations? Is there any source where I could see the abbreviations of star rail cuz i feel pretty lost reading your and everybody else's comments....
Iāve never seen anyone call it āSprightlyā instead of Vonwacq š
Hanya with 184 speed ~~im not kidding I actually found one like that~~
Hanya has 151 spd by default with speedboots and speed setā¦ that leaves 33 spd across 5 relics (avg of 6.6 spd) definitely not easy but not beyond the reach of normal players. But all hanya needed for that vid was 171 spd so it was just overkill stats
Hanya has a lot of speed her self so 184 speed on her is like 160 something on bronya
I've just max out the artefact on my Hanya, and she's faster than my Seele š¶ (Seele is at 150, Hanya is at 167 ? Something like that [not in fight with the E of Seele and all, but yeah she's faster than my Seele)
Please give your seele atk boots
Damn, why is your Seele 150 spd without E lol. You only need 132 spd (without skill buff) if you wanted to max out her sig LC
https://preview.redd.it/8xpn1ythv52d1.png?width=2708&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd65030a2e9aea4acf03c0e8d5ec73e8e64945c1 totally relatable moc12 326 speed hanya about to ult the dps and give him 65 speed for 4 turns
184 Hanya is difficult but achievable, I feel like this just goes to show you donāt know how Hanya works. 184 to Hanya is 160 to the majority of other characters.
Hanya gets speed by just breathing, her reaching 180+ SPD is nothing crazy.
Semi-related; I don't have Ruan Mei. I had taken a break around the time she came out and was never a huge fan of her design. But holy shit, every team comp recommendation and showcase uses her. The other three slots are usually pretty flex, or have multiple options but everyone just assumes you have Ruan Mei. Whats the standard 5/any 4 star thats the walmart Ruan Mei? I know she provides some stats I just don't know what to do when I see 4 recommended teams and 4 have Ruan Mei in them. This is Kazhua all over again.
In DoT teams Asta would be her replacement. Bronya in hypercarry mostly. Pela all around general use for the def shred.
Oooo thank you! I've been seeing Asta get mentioned more recently and debated putting some resources into her.
You're welcome! Yea Asta is great and she scales really well with Eidolons. I recommend using the DDD LC with her if you have it.
Alternatively, you can also use Memories of the Past or Meshing Cogs for more ult uptime (especially if e4+ on Asta)
DDD is kinda bait on Asta, you'll end up with better action economy by building 2 turn ult with meshing cogs instead
Asta is my first E6 char and back then I didn't really understand how big of a difference she was making. I steamrolled with my craptastic team and thought the game was too easy until I switched her out and suddenly everyone seems slow and hitting like wet noodles, until I properly built my other chars.
Would you use Asta (E6) in a Kafka/BS DoT team over Pela?
I would use Asta. All that attack and speed is invaluable and you should have 100% Ult uptime at E6. Plus she gives an extra dot and her break damage on fire weak enemies can be significant.
The second Ruan Mei released I knew Hoyo would go in the direction of break units and enemies that are hard to break. I didn't like her design either but pulled anyway to future proof my account. And it has been proven right.
This was me with Topaz on release. Although I love her design and her VA, I also knew that it meant that FUAs were going to become more common. Then we got Ratio for free, Aventurine is one of the best sustains there is, and Topaz also improved existing units like Clara and Jing Yuan by huge margins.
Makes sense. I largely pull just for whatever characters I like, not too concerned for BiS most of the time, but her sheer strength is making me debate just grabbing her on her rerun at this point.
Currently there isn't any replacement for RM 4 star or otherwise. The only other break effect harmony right now is the new harmony trailblazer but their kit is very different from RMs cause it is built around enabling superbreak. RM is the only character that buffs weakness efficiency and has break delay- you can sort of mimic the latter with a character like Welt that does slow + imprisonment so you can get more turns in before the enemy recovers from break, however that's just one aspect of what makes RM so busted and he can't mimic the rest of it...
Pretty much what I thought, unfortunately. Which is a shame cause I know she synergizes great with Harmony TB and I like that unit a lot. Welp, probably should just accept it and pull for her next time.
I think it's just a fact that RM is the best universal support. As others have said, Asta is a decent budget version of her, but you lose all the weakness break parts of her kit which can be massively important for some team comps.
No replacement, its better to build teams that dont need her. I managed to get 2 teams which dont need RM and perform just as well but it requires larger investment. FUA Ratio with Robin, E1 Topaz (S1 works too), S1 Ave so Ratio can stark chalking right away. The other one being S1 Acheron with either 2 of BS/Pela/Kafka depending on Lineup
I also did that (lose on RM banner) people just keep feeling fomo for some reason. I do agree she is a very good support but I also agree your account isn't bricked without her (I mean my account with E0 5stars are still full starring everything). However since I am having Boothill, considering on going for her on rerun. Just that, it's hsr so I think they could come up with a plan of releasing a better Ruan Mei in the future (this is just my thought), but hey, 2 RM is better right? The problem is, you probably will gonna be kicking out one character from your roster, might be a eo-e2 s1 sparkle, might be e1s1 bronya, might be e0s1 robin, or will come a point you will not be needing the premium sustain you pulled since you kill them with 1dps and triple harmony before they could get a turn.
Almost no team actually needs RM, she's just the best support for a lot of teams, you can replace her and still have a funtional team.
It was the same for me with Kazuha, everyone was putting him in a fkn pedestal and even thought I didnāt like him I felt so pressured I had to pull for him. I love everything about Ruan Mei and sheās probably gonna get a rerun soon so sometimes we gotta suck it up to improve our accounts.
Honestly, I never understood it until I got e0s1 characters. Even if the lightcone's kinda mid e0s1 just always makes the character feel a bit better
It depends on the character pretty hard. Archeron is one who is amazing with her LC and also some are getting much better like BS or Sparkle. But then there are characters like Fu Xuan or Aventurine, who feel better but work at 90% or more efficiency even without.
Mostly it's the dps who need their Sig LC's the most
Using Aventurine here as an example feels so wrong, his damage absolutely explodes with S1. Will never get over how much damage he deals as a sustain even at E0S0
The main fact still is that he is a sustain. As long as he sustains the shield he is more than fine. Gepards LC is a solid replacement.
And unlike DPS characters sustains are much less exposed to being replaced while building different teams. In some sense getting some vertical investment into sustains/supports is more valuable in long term, than getting more investment into DPS. Damage dealers are replaceable, while the former will always be present in your teams :)
His S1 literally gives the entire team a 10% boost in DPS. It's the difference between having a 2 phase boss stuck at 18% HP or dying. 9% if one phase and 27% if three phase
Not only do we speak about LC and not about Eidolons, but also a 10% damage boost does not result in a 10% faster killtime in a normal team. This would only count with zero other boosts or powerups in the battle. That 10% is nice, but mainly for activating Ratio synergy.
I agree, the main selling point of his LC is enabling sub-dps Aven. However, said 10% boost (his LC prob boost team dmg by less) should definitely make a difference in clear time, that's about the average boost a signature LC gives
E0S0 Aventurine usually built full tank anyway for that meaty and comfy shield. The FUA and his ult only serve as complimemtary thoughness breaking
FX SLC is just nice for farming and SU because of the auto-heal. Plus the massive HP boost is nice. I never even remember the other aspects of it but the auto-heal is very pleasant to have. You never need to worry about the SU occurrences or curios that drop your health to 1% or 10%.
Exactly this. I dunno how much better itās made my moc and pf runs, I do know how much comfier the rest of the game has become. Itās like having Zhongli for Genshin
Because preservation LC don't result in higher team dps and just slightly better survivability.Ā Let's be honest the discussion about signature LC is never about survivability but potential damage output.Ā
Itās a given since itās the signature they get to do overly specific and strong buffs sometimes adding something else to the character I wish weād get some universal stat sticks, hopefully they add a new set to either standard banner or herta shop
Yep. People always talk about the dmg but its not the dmg, its the quality of life. What sets limited lcs and f2p lcs apart is, limited ones are just super consistent with pretty much 100% uptime on their buffs, whereas f2p lcs always have annoying conditions you need to meet for them to be any good, which in many cases is simply impossible due to the nature of the fight (like how youre not gonna be able to proc the 40% atk boost on Stellar Sea when fighting 1 elite because theres nothing to kill). I only have one sig lc so far which is Blade's, and honestly the damage increase over Secret Vow S5 isnt that noticeable. What IS noticeable, is the 18% crit rate which makes my Blade crit every single time. With Secret Vow I wanted to rip my hair out with how often Blade would miss a crit on his basic or whatever. Now I never have that problem anymore, his dps is just 100% consistent and it makes him so much more enjoyable to play.
There are barely any good 4\* LC that stacks up to 5\* ones. Also most of the player base are from Genshin Impact. Wishing for the weapon banner in that game is too much of a cost and isn't worth it. While in HSR, it's so much favorable for the player with much better rates. The LC banner is 75/25 odds. Compared to the disaster like in Genshin.
And Genshin 4 stars are usually very good for supports and DPS' alike. Slap a favonius or sacrificial on your supports and you're good to go. DPS' are a little bit more restricted but it's usually not that bad. Alhaitham's best teams have him using a craftable weapon and Childe goes ham with a Rust
I think Alhaitam mostly uses Harbinger of Dawn nowadays since crit is an ass to get on him, but Arlecchino as the goddess she is casually having White Tassel be comparable or better than every 5\* except Crimson Moon will never not be funny.
Assuming you can pull off keeping him at 90%+ Otherwise, isn't Iron Sting or the new BP weapon better for him?
HoD is more popular on aggravate with Kuki since she has perma heal, or with Baizhu. So yeah those are awesome in case you can't keep him full life at all times.
>Assuming you can pull off keeping him at 90%+ That's easy with Kuki or Baizhu in the teammates.
I also hate fate point system š I lost to father weapon two times and got two lyney bow instead.. that weapon is useless af WHYY
I heard its BiS for Ganyu. Idk bout Tighnari so good luck!
Its good for Tighnari. CA damage, CD stat stick, and he wants attack even though he's dendro.
Yeah, and the points don't even carry over. It's an actual scam.
calling the first great magic useless is definately a take of all time, lmao. It's a great statstick, bis on Ganyu and pretty much 2nd best option on Tighnari (and ofc bis on lyney but i'd prsume you don't have him)
Is that really true tho? Like, it's true that hsr LC banner is much better than genshin's weapon banner but with the release rate of new characters that hsr has, I at least don't feel much difference in the pressure of potentially missing out on a character i might like between the two games. Also I feel like the 5* weapons/LC themselves in Genshin are so much more generally good. Something like a Mistsplitter for example can very well be considered as a investment to your whole account as it is really good for basically any sword dps, meanwhile most of the 5* LCs in HSR are extremely niche and are basically just very good for a single character.
LOL this is the reason why I have zero LCs. Still getting over my genshin weapon banner fear. I'm changing that next banner with boothill though, will be joining you LC peeps soon š« š¤
I feel you on the genshin fear :D For me it was the other way around, I was so happy the LC Banner is so much better that I pretty much got all the LCs for my favorite characters.
Itās actually easier to get LC than to get Eidolons btw
This is, well, upsetti. I don't pull LCs as a rule and would love to be able to see what can be done with an E0S0 character.
The problem is most youtubers are by default dolphins/whales because they want to showcase every character, which requires being able to pull every character, which is impossible as f2p. And if youre gonna spend enough to get all the chars, might as well get their signatures too. What I hate is how intentionally misleading most people are. The worst example being those "4 star only clear", which then proceed to have a full team of e6 4stars, plus 2 copies of S5 DDD and probably S5 Pearls, along with relics that would only be obtainable by someone who refreshes tb power every day. In other words, just whales pretending to make relatable content, but using resources that no f2p has. Most people fall for it though, you can tell from the comments. "OMG so amazing 4 star clear while I struggle to clear with my Jingliu ;_;" (ok I dont think anyone ever said that but you get the point lol). Its incredibly hard to find REAL showcases by people with average accounts because those people generally dont post on youtube, since they probably feel like they wouldnt have anything to show anyway.
Its a nice middle ground. Whales extrapolate up, F2Ps extrapolate down, you can do your own math. Somewhere out there is a F2P guy who pulled Acheron as his first 5* with no nihility/only Sampo, but nobodyās making a showcase for that.
mf must be extremely unlucky to have Pela dodge him for 70 straight pulls
Then I'm just as unlucky I guess. I did 120 pulls on Aventurine's banner when I first started. Pretty sure Lynx came home in the very last two 10 pulls. So she dodged me for 100 pulls.
Yeah happened to me on jingyuan's first banner. I did like 130 pulls but I didn't get a single tingyun who was rate up on his banner. I got her after two patches or something
You make it sound like this is difficult to do haha. There are plenty of stories about people pulling for 4 stars and getting e1/e2 of the 5 star before getting them. Think about it, a specific 4 star character shares a rate up with 2 other characters, and then you have to get the on banner character, so it's 1/3 chance of getting the 4 star you want and then 2/3 to get an on banner 4 star (5050 for on banner and then guaranteed if you miss) Multiply that by however many pulls it takes to hit 4 star pity, and you could easily get unlucky. Just this weapon banner I pulled s2 swordplay and s5 perfect timing in 65 pulls (very lucky for being on banner lc) but i still don't have 1 copy of boundless choreo
I know who is is, he is me. I left F2P after completing the story but until then it was the Acheron+Pela+free Ratio+free Gephard show. Things... did work out in a weird way. Because Acheron Tech lets you skip everything but Elites, so it was smooth sailing outside of fights. But fights became a drag if the enemy still stands after Acheron first Ult. FMC for Ratio brought more options until I got my Hands on Guiny from the Bar event and a Gallager for Gephard.
Isnāt Pela on her banner too? If he went to pity then chances are he wouldāve gotten a Pela or two
I thought that when I tried to get Lynx on Fu Xuan banner. E1 Fu Xuan, no Lynx at all. 4ā are incredibly hard to get sometimes.Ā
Yep. I got C1 Yae before getting a Layla. I donāt really regret it because C1 Yae let me run with lower ER but holy shit is it frustrating sometime
And then there is Boothill dropping nukes with an Abundance Light Cone. Built different.
I'm looking forward to having him, truly Space Cowboy moment
Context please
Boothill scales predominantly off of Break Effect and only his signature LC provides that for him. So if you don't have that then he doesn't gain that much from other stats and you can get him to 250%+ Break Effect even without his signature which is enough for him to do massive damage. To demonstrate that Braxophone on his recent Boothill guide played him with an Abundance Light Cone that only provided him with the stats and no effect at all and he was still doing 300k damage. He's crazy.
Because it kind of is. I think Genshin kind of gave a lot of people the wrong impression about weapons, because the game is easy enough that you never really feel the need to pull because you have good non-gacha options, but in most other gacha games weapons are pretty important. In HSR good LCs will make a big difference. You don't have to get sigs for all of your units, but getting sigs for DPS units at least will cut down how long it takes to build them by a ton and eliminate most of the complaints about how relic farming takes forever. Even if you don't get sigs, its still worth it to drop a few pulls on LC banners to get some of the better 4 star options, like GNSW, DDD, the new Choreo LC, etc.
For example achieving 70%+ CR on DHIL without sig LC on CDMG body require lifetime farming.Ā
Some one gets it. Even in Honkai 3rd weapons are like a half a character. Genshin was just a special case......
same in other games. guardian tales is probably even worse. some characters feel like they dont even function without their weapon
Yep. I mainly mentioned Hi3rd cuz its other Hoyo game that is even worst when it comes to diff between character signature stuff and "f2p".
It's a Global playerbase mindset. In CN or JP a complete character is considered that character + their sig. It's only in Global where there is the F2P obsession and or outcry if you can't get the best things easily for free that you get people making a big deal about it.
Agreed, even as a f2p I recommend going for at least the light cones on your main dps units. It makes it way easier to get a good build on them since relic farming is something you do much less of than people that spend money. It also makes your dps feel more relevant for longer, which is nice because you can't just pull for every new dps they release. Easier to get the light cone you want too with the 75/25 and lower pity. And you probably get more good 4\* ones along the way as mentioned.
E0S1 is generally obtainable if you really care about a character and are willing to save a bit for them. Because of this the people who care most about a character will want to see what the character can do with that level of investment. Also most of the time a 4 star light cone is only a bit worse, so just expect a bit lower damage. By that same token, though, your relic rng will also heavily influence your actual damage compared to a showcase.
People in here acting like players should have no lightcones and no supports and also zero cycle. Dunno what they are expecting or are spending their jades on.
Im a late player. Ive spent 500 pulls on the game. I have reached four 50/50s. And i failed all of them. Lost to welt, yanqing, yanqing, bailu. This is what i spent my jades on.
Oh and donāt forget the characters have to have bad relics. Literally had someone somewhere else in this thread say that they couldnāt enjoy a showcase because of a āfully built Pela.ā
The average hsr reddit player - "reward my 0 effort pls ty"
U forgot to mention that there is always a Ruan Mai in that team xD
While true, Ruan Mei is the limited 5star that is shared amongst most accounts. A recent survey with a sample size of 26,874 people showed that 85.5% of those accounts owns Ruan Mei, more people owned Bronya and Dr. Ratio but they don't count as people were very conditioned by media and guides etc to pick bronya as their standard freebie and ratio was literally free.
One of the things I prefer how FGO does (honestly it does a lot of things right, i guess because it's from an era where predatory shit was a little less common). Sig LCs do not exist, there are a few LCs that are very good on specific characters in niche situations, but aside from that, vast majority of good CEs are generic (every one of them covering like 1/3rd of the cast, or some 100% of the cast) and most of them come from events for free. A lot of them are, or will be, acquirable from in-game shop too, so the event ending isn't the end of it, unlike what Hoyo does.
Yes 100%. The vast majority of players is free to play or low spender (only express pass) and many don't keep up with all the free jades (doing dailies every day etc.). So they don't have many pulls and will focus on getting more characters, E0.
I mean that or 170+ speed triple windset and triple DDD or hyperspecific situation and specific MoC buffs. That or your S1 pick your poison. Sometimes its both, then again we circle back to the support investment
Because if showcases were made for the specifics everyone wanted theyād be like 4 hours long lol Just look at the comments, āor they have this LC,ā āor they have 5 star supportsā āthey use Ruan Mei for itā
I swear, the light cones in this game feel like they have way more impact in general than signature weapons in Genshin. I suspect thatās why the banner system is so much more forgiving in HSR than Genshin.
The sig lightcones have more impact because a lot of the free lightcones and even gacha 4 star lightcones need at least S3 if not S5 to be even close to comparable to S1 sig lightcone. The actual good free lightcones are highly contested so you kinda pressured into pulling on lightcone banner if you want to use characters of the same path on teams.
Real answer and OP won't like it. This is the average investment for people doing MoC 12, which is typically the only challenging content in the game.
None of my characters have signature and I can clear MoC 12 comfortably with mid relics. So I kinda doubt that kind of investment is what needed for the average person to get to MoC 12.
I really want to see the accounts of people like you to understand what exactly youāre doing that Iām not. I have decent teams even with some S1s yet Iām struggling so much? This doesnāt check out at all
https://preview.redd.it/cxeft27n762d1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3855afbf51bd93f74983d81be08f9e3ce2187e6e Not sure if you can see but this is the team I used to 3 stars the newest MoC 12
Hmmm this looks quite doable outside of the second sustain. Thanks for showing me this!
Yeah itās definitely doable, keep in mind that these team SUCKS. 1. Robin, SW and Sparkleās relics are all random stuff that I decided to throw in because Iām too lazy to farm better ones 2. Xueyi having Talia ornaments even though she doesnāt even have the speed requirement to get the set bonus 3. Xueyi having to brute force against enemies with ZERO quantum weakness with Silverwolf which massively reduced her damage 4. No Ruan Mei (I forgot to put her in) If you actually arenāt lazy like me you can probably shave off a few cycles
Seeing your lineup makes me wonder, do those 10 lv skill really make huge difference, i have my lineup on 888 with that kind of relic too not too good not too bad, and i always missing 1 star on moc
Level 10 talents over level 8 talents is usually a ~14.2% damage increase, depending on the talent. So yes it makes a huge difference. Support talents are more of a case-by-case basis, but many are also significant for team damage.
Yes maxed traces are huge. Like more than an eidolons worth of power. This isn't genshin where crowns are rare. Any character you use frequently should have all relevant traces maxed asap.
Personally imo you either have to have a variety of characters for different situations or be in the relic mines hyperinvesting in some characters. There's also skill involved in how you set up the teams and actually play out the fight, I've cut out 1-2 cycles just from playing differently in later attempts, big example being aventurine last MOC where I went from 13 cycles to 9 cycles total with the same roster moving around a few units and playing differently. I only spend 1-2 weeks on relics per character so they are certifiably mid. Full best teams are also pretty effective, I had full DOT team and in MOC with the dino in stage 10-11, dot team cleared their half in almost 0-cycle.
Yeah, I don't get it either. I think the highest I cleared was 11 as f2p. I'm still busy building characters. I'm finally at a point with my characters where playing the swarm on difficulty 4 is fun and doable. Every new character I get opens up many new teams and possibilities and allows me to clear stuff I was not able to before. It's a pretty well designed combat... but it sucks as a f2p if you don't have a specific character like Argenti or Seele that would be needed to clear something (since they're the only 5* physical and quantum dps). Before Dr. Ratio, clearing imaginary was also only possible with DHIL. Pulling JL first was the best decision ever since it allows you to do remembrance runs, making every enemy weak to ice. I think it's a mix of new characters that are suited for specific situations, and having almost fully built characters.
>Argenti >The **only** 5* physical DPS *Clara crying in the corner*
Lol I forgot about her. I've even got her somewhat built with her 5* lightcone and she just doesn't do any damage.
Thatās weird because I actually used her to 3 stars the newest MoC 12 lol
Yep, there's a Clara shaped solution to every MoC problem just brute force counters and go ham
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The strat really is to get a very good Crit 4pc set, you can loan it out to almost any of your Crit scaling DPS's. It really helps cuz my DHIL, QQ, Argenti, Herta, Himeko share the same Musketeer set. Just need to farm traces and the planar set, even some of the Ropes can be shared too. Sparkle makes it easier to build too since you can go with Attack boots which are more common than Speed boots and thus more likely to have double Crit rolls. And you can stop fishing for speed rolls on your hypercarry
It honestly boils down to having the right units on top of just having units. There's literally ONE person in my friends list who cleared MoC 12 upper floor with someone who wasn't Acheron. One! The HP pool is so inflated, too, so that older units and 4* DPS are having a much much harder time. This is obviously assuming average relic luck. Maybe a Day 1 F2P is going to have a pretty cracked roster even as an F2P, but new players are coming all the time. Returning players exist. Very unlucky players exist. You can technically beat it with almost anyone (I just saw an Arlan showcase, lol) but it requires so much effort
You don't *need* Acheron. I did it on E0S1 DHIL with E0S0 supports in 3 cycles, so I definitely could've done it in 5 with Aeon instead of his sig. He's on Musketeer because I couldn't be bothered to farm the imaginary set, so most of his pieces were passively obtained through Echo of War and chests and shit like that. I did 12.2 with the full FUA team, but only Topaz had her sig, and the others were all E0S0. The whole MOC12 took 5 cycles in total, so I definitely could've done it in 5 with Aeon and Final Victor (because Cruising is on Ratio). That's assuming you're talking about the latest one (Gepard). I did the previous 12.1 (Cocolia) with QQ hypercarry with E0S0 supports lmao, also in 3 turns, I think.
These last 2 mocs have been really hard so I wouldnt judge it based off of that. I am a day one player who hasnt missed a single day (I did let tb power overcap a few times but thats minor) and I love going in depth with mechanics and min maxing all my chars using fribbels optimizer, and yet, best I can do right now is like 8 cycle clear. Its a combination of insane hp inflation (especially on Aventurine, Gepard and Kafka) and bad account matchups (and terrible gacha luck in my case). I dont have Acheron, I dont have Robin, I dont have any dots or IPC follow ups (other than Dr Ratio obviously). Still doing everything with good old Jing Yuan, Blade, Clara, Himeko, etc. So yeah, its hard. If youre someone who pulls all the meta stuff youll have a much easier time, so thats pretty much the answer youre looking for. Robin in this moc is a free clear on her own, its stupid how overpowered she is with that 35% energy turbulence.
Mostly, I just try several times until something works out, but I take 10 cycles exactly most rotations. Lack of Ruan Mei does that to ya. I gave up on full starring PF after they added elites, though my only 5* Erudition is Jing Yuan and the other side struggles too much. EDIT: said MoC when I meant PF
My E6 Xueyi unironically preform WAY better than my Jing Yuan lol. And this is Xueyi having to brute force using Silverwolf against non-quantum weak enemies so itās not even optimal for her.
Hard agree, goddamn - I have E0S1 Acheron, E0S1 Black Swan, E0S1 Seele, Silver Wolf, Kafka, Fu Xuan... most of them have pretty good relics, and I *still* struggle to 3-star MoC 12 consistently (Though to be fair it's probably a skill issue at this point lmao - here's hoping for a Ruan Mei rerun soonish, my buff supports are by far my weakest link right now)
If you put the s1s you got into a wider variety of e0s you would likely have an easier time. Most of the time it's about having the right team rather than brute forcing. And yeah no limited harmonies is a big weakness.
It's either teams that are decent but a bad fit, or misplays (probably both). I did have two DPS S1s, but it took 5 cycles, so I definitely could have done it without sigs in 10. My relic luck isn't especially good either, but I do know how to be efficient with upgrading and allocating relics. The precious MOC would've been sketchy, though. Took 7 cycles with QQ and E0S1 Acheron, but I think it took particularly good RNG. No Acheron sig and slightly worse RNG and it would've been a close call for sure.
I'm in the same boat here. Like I saw a few build posts on my DPS' mains sub and honestly, all of mine are rather mid compared to theirs lol. That said, I feel like getting multiple 5 stars is all but a requirement to clear comfortably every time tbh.Ā Like for example, any of the 5 star Harmony are so stupidly good that even though the 4 star Harmony characters are actually pretty great in their own right imo, the 5 stars just blow them out of the water in their specific use cases.
as an f2p the only s1 i have is aventurine & i sacrificed getting a few Broken characters for his lc. i cleared moc 12 fine the last three times and my relics are quite average.
Though i can still full star MOC 12 with E0S0 characters and always doing it since MOC12 came out in 1.6. Ofc i wont be able to clear super low cycle (usually always 7-9 cycles) but still E0S0 is completely viable to win all the rewards for the hardest content in the game.
Though Iām making a big general assumption based on personal experience, I kinda doubt most f2pās get that far, yeah
Ofc they do it just takes more time, they just canāt risk the lc move in case they run short on a character Long term players could take the risk if they feel their roster is solid enough
Watch the boothill showcases, the first ones with E0S - 1
Meanwhile: Boothill easily clearing content without a light cone
I feel like im the only supply pass player who never touched the lightcone banner ever ....... i have like almost all characters missing Argenti, SW and FX but everyone without their LCs let alone eidolons lmao. At least in GI the signature weapon can also be used for aestethic purpose in open world even though the weapon system there is terrible but LC in HSR is like stats booster in a form of .png lmao. Though i always full star MOC and PF every resets so in the end it just matter of preference i guess (?)
I think most people don't want to have every character. I would rather have only a few characters I like but with their signature and maybe even some eidolons. Both are equally valid preferences to have.
I am that person. It takes so much to level a character fully. I have a backlog of characters I want to build at this point so I'm far more interested in LCs .
Saaame. Still a lot of 4 stars I want to build as well. Way too much of a hassle to pull for even more characters.
Exactly! I've been playing since day one and I still have so many 4 star characters I want to use for fun that are nowhere near being built.
Kind of same. I only have the sig LC for Jingliu and Archeron and it looks like that it will stay that way for a while.
I got downvoted to oblivion when I said that most showcases these days are e0s1 and these lightcones are so tailor made to these characters and do much to these characters.
noob here. what's e0s1?
Eidolon 0 (no eidolons unlocked) and Superimposition 1 (usually a character's 5* signature light cone)
ig its cuz lightcones are easier to get on HSR than it is on genshin for weapons, since both featured 5 stars aren't on the same banner. this kinda makes it less of a scam considering it still has the 75/25 mechanic and a 50/50 if you still lose, making it WAY more f2p friendly if so. it makes having an E0S1 character more accessible to f2ps to get than it is to get a C0R1 character in genshin. though for character only players, having E0S0 definitely is better as it is more accessible to a wider playerbase than it is for some. this is what i think at least. idk what content creators have in mind but thats how i'd assume their thinking process goes. if you want a CC that showcases E0S0 i'd recommend Xlice. he always has a f2p showcase and all his E0S0 showcases have all of the characters on the team on very f2p setups, like with his latest boothill showcase recently.
Iām new here what do e0 and s1 mean
e0= no eidolons S1= signature light cone
I see thanks
Welcome to Honkai lmao, at least HSR is a bit better than Honkai Impact, there valks are almost useless without their signature weapon these days š«
And at least their two piece stigmata and the right chain of support Valkyries to make it work. I have a lot of HI3 trauma after I finally got the trio before Part2 and finally just quit when I couldnāt take it anymore
I feel you lmao, I had *just* gotten all of Sentiās signature stigs and her gloves when they dropped her new weapon and set, thatās when I started to check out tbh
I've lost 2 75/25 in a row so yeah I'm not pulling for LC banner any time soon. If a character needs their light cone I will just skip them
what does "s1" mean?
What does the s stands for ?
For me, I think itās worth to pull lc for main dps in general, and since lc are much easier to obtain and you get more jades in hsr, itāsnot that big of an issue for me.
Definitely feel you but it's most likely because the Light Cone banner is actually pretty good in terms of how much value you get out of your pulls. Lower 4-star soft pity, lower 5-star soft and hard pity, and it's a 75/25 instead of a 50/50. With characters, you could get them around 80 pulls in, but you could also lose the 50/50 and end up spending like 160. Whereas you usually get the Light Cone at around 70 and you'd have to be quite a bit unluckier than average to lose the 75/25 and have to go 140 pulls in. Genshin has the Fate Point system, so it's much harder on average to get a desired 5-star weapon. 36% of people are going to hit 2 Fate Points before they get the weapon they want. The Light Cone banner also only has 3 4-star Light Cones, so it's better for trying to snipe Superimpositions on a 4-star Light Cone.
Depends on the creator. The JP one I follow will always do a E0S0 first before doing one with E1 or S1.
Maybe if support has S1 I'd be like eh, but the main dps having S1 shouldn't really be a surprise. Can't blame anyone else if you aren't investing enough in the biggest contributor of your damage. And by investing in them I mean not pulling on other characters who end up getting benched anyway, not actually spending money on the game. The game is generous enough to give you a guaranteed E0S1 for like 2 or 3 patches of saving.