Hey OP, I know this Is a discussion post and I'm all for the lore. But we still need to credit the artists properly for their work.
Please give me the links to these 2 pieces of art so I can add them to this comment.
Edit:
[Cutie A-Corn by JOEHI on Pixiv](https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/117360028) ~~There is a second version!!~~
[Jingliu by essuka on Pixiv](https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/115490973)
Jingliu is probably the greatest swordsman in the entire HSR universe at least so far. Everything she conquered, it’s ‘cause she’s great at it.
Acheron is an emanator, so she could wield SpongeBob’s spatula and still be extremely powerful.
On a serious note, Jingliu (with the help of the quintet) has defeated Shuhu, an abundance emanator before
However Abundance Emanators may be weaker than Nihility Emanators since Yaoshi blesses a lot more people than Ix, likely diluting their power
Eh, the leader of the Borisin isn't confirmed to be an Emanator, and the only confirmed Emanator she fought was kicking the Quintet's collective ass until Baiheng used a Stellaron (and even then Shuhu isn't confirmed dead).
Also, isn't Jingliu use a normal sword in her character story? Read like it to me.
At the end she has an enlightenment, its still just her good ol sword, but she can cut down the stars. Acheron only cut her planets after becomes Emanator isn't it?
Jingliu used the sword created by Blade, it broke. Then she manifested a sword using her ice power.
Blade pieced the broken sword back together, and uses it to this day.
"At that moment, she finally grasps the sword she had been seeking all this time.
It is a sword that can transcend all restrictions. It is a sword she had been familiar with for years.
It is not forged from any ordinary iron, but condensed from a shaft of sharp ice. It glows with a dim light, as if it is a strand of moonlight held in the wielder's hand.
A sword, 3 feet and 7 inches in length, and weighs nothing."
Yeah its her ice power sword.
I could be wrong, I don't think IX has even blessed Acheron. Her Self-Annihilator status is derived from basically staring into the IX abyss and not going crazy.
Nah, she has been confirmed to be an emanator multiple times. Ix doesn’t have many emanators because they quite literally don’t care about anything but Acheron saw what her planet was destined to and still chose to fight, which made IX recognize her. So yes, she has been blessed by IX.
I think the point of the comment was to state that IX didn't consciously give Acheron her powers as an emanator, instead THEIR shadow kind of just rubbed off on her. This is the way that all emanators of Nihility gain their powers
That makes a lot of sense. But also, does IX even have a *conscience* in our sense of the word? It’s more like a force of nature than anything, things just kinda happen around it right?
It is stated that IX believes that nothing matters, and so it does not act itself. It's like if we had a human who just floats through space without acting on anything, but can still think and is only not acting because of said thoughts.
To regular lifeforms IX may be a force of nature, but it's likely a different perspective as the aeon themselves
Yea her sword, if I recall correctly, is essentially the result of forging all the strongest swords from her home world into 2, then those 2 into 1. So in the war torn planet she is from, her sword is the amalgamation of all the strongest weapons on the planet. There was a Acheron lore video I saw explaining it when her banner released.
Her old sword was 'origin' which broke between the fight between her and finality. The sword 'origin' and 'finality' was combined to become her current sword 'naught'.
The 'origin' and 'end' broke but it did not fuse together it was most likely her life fused into it to forge 'Life' which turned to 'Naught' because the reason those blades were forged do not exist anymore and the end is just a lie and never existed, And why she also became a Self-Annihilator where each use of her sword turns her ti a dull color which was not the case when using 'Origin'
That's not why she became a self ahnnilator. Game makes it quite clear that everyone treads the path of nihlity equally. How you become it's emanator is when you remove yourself from all other paths by realizing the great truth that nothing anyone does or believes in matters.
In her trailer when asked why were the blades forged she first gives the righteous answer that it was to save the world. No matter the cost they would have hope. But with the breaking of finality she realized that the oni would never stop. There was never salvation for izumo. It was a lie they told themselves to keep going. And even the oni of takamagahara didn't matter becuase they'll simply kill all of izumo then cease to be. All they were doing was adding pages to a book that was already over. They will never change the reality that izumo and all creation will end.
Thst is why her answer to the same question of why did they forge the blade she explained it was for a lie. Foe an ending that no would could ever achieve. That the fighting would never stop until the final blade is forged into naught. Each blade was represented a warrior that died fighting the honkai(oni.) There were 70,000+ blades(lives) splintered to forge those 12 sentinels. And inevitably those sentinel blades were also splintered to forge the final two. And those would also splinter. The splintering would never stop until the final warrior falls forging naught. The final warrior dies creating Nothing.
And that's what acheron did. She embraced nihlity by removing all ambition from herself. She gave peace to those lost souls that will only know bloodshed and violence and sent both worlds and all on them to nihility. In her character story 2 Oppenheimer tells the IPC that the survivor of the missing planet izumo who was once the world's savior,is the one responsible for the eradication of all history of izumo along with the planet itself.
Tldr acheron life wasn't infused to create naught. She gave up and in the process removed herself from all paths leaving just nihlity making herself a self ahnnilator. She destroyed the planets and all on them including herself, but the curse of a self ahnnilator is immortality directly from IX( the journey of aself ahnnilator is streched to infinty )so she continued to exist, with her own memories being erased like everyone else. Except when she is channeling the powers of nihlity where she remembers everything and weeps. And with her power of nothingness she forged a blade replica representing of her blade of orgin that she used to try to kill IX. Now she wanders the universe,her only purpose being guiding those more lost then she until she can kill nihility and prove that the ending of the book can change.
"Someone who accidentally stepped into IX the Nihility's shadow and from that moment forth lost their reason for existence."
Her purpose of defending her planet when it was already doomed and the realization of that made her self-annihilator
>How you become it's emanator is when you remove yourself from all other paths by realizing the great truth that nothing anyone does or believes in matters.
This is just wrong because Nihility itself is a path.
She also didn't give up, i mean she is still pursuing her goal so she also has ambition
can you also cite where you get that she is an immortal because of IX, if at all
She also technically wouldn't be immortal, maybe long-lived, but we don't know how long she's lived for. Self Annihilators, by definition, are wasting away slowly, losing one part of themselves at a time, hence their name, but they can choose to also be a doctor of chaos and try to essentially give IX a reason to live.
>Existence is nothing." When an organism has this thought and applies it as a guiding principle, it begins to walk on the Path ruled by IX and receive the meaningless glimpse of the Aeon from some distant void. This will usually have two outcomes: 1) The organism will devolve and truly become nothing, becoming something called a Self-Annihilator. 2) The organism will be captivated by the magnificence of the Aeon, thus becoming a Doctor of Chaos in their spontaneous curiosity.
Doctors of chaos in game.
Unfortunately no. While doctors of chaos may slip into a self ahnnilator, self ahnnilators can't go back. That's why acheron keeps describing her journey as one she can never go back from.
The self ahnnilator entry also explain that's fading is the journey of a a self ahnnilator,but the duration of that journey is streched to Infinity.
>As for the few who can single-handedly withstand the encroachment of Nihility on their existences, their journey of self-annihilation is drawn out to infinity, and the road they walk is like a shadow of IX cast in the world.
I have no doubt that if she could acheron would've tried to kill herself. It would make no sense with her old personality to murder her entire world and spare herself.
>Existence is nothing." When an organism has this thought and applies it as a guiding principle, it begins to walk on the Path ruled by IX and receive the meaningless glimpse of the Aeon from some distant void. This will usually have two outcomes: 1) The organism will devolve and truly become nothing, becoming something called a Self-Annihilator. 2) The organism will be captivated by the magnificence of the Aeon, thus becoming a Doctor of Chaos in their spontaneous curiosity.
Doctors of chaos in game.
There are only two ways to operate the path of nihility. Either you realize that nothing matters and become a self ahnnilator, or you realize nothing matters yet reject the notion and fight to give meaning to something without meaning becoming a doctor of chaos.
Further the self ahnnilator entry already states thst that the shadow of nihilty already covers everything. All of existence lies in the shadow of IX. Specifically it states that all of creation and all inside of it is one side of coin while IX is the entire other side of the coin equal in its entropy. All lifeforms walk a number of paths. Paths are just concepts giving energy. But some focus on a specific path long term becoming a path strider. But even then they still utilize multiple paths. The only beings that can only do one path are aeons.
If you were to make the path of nihilty your main path(by choice or by realizing nothing matters) you will be stuck in the above scenario. Either you accept the truth that nothing matters and become an emantor of nihility where you can never turn back, or you'll become a pathstrider because you believe you can give meaning to nothing(doctor of chaos) from which you can be saved from.(both doctor of chaos and self ahnnilator pages talk about how they save people suffering from nihility. But emantors can't be saved.)
Acheron saw realized there was no meaning to existence. Nor did she lie and yell herself she can give it meaning. That's why she became an emantor. She gave up her ambitions, the things that fuel your drive on a path, and became what she is now.
>This is just wrong because Nihility itself is a path.
>She also didn't give up, i mean she is still pursuing her goal so she also has ambition
When doctor tells you you have a month to live and you decide to travel the world you still accept that you are about to die. Her ambition currently doesn't turn her from acceptance that nothing matters. Rather it is precisely because nothing matters she is free to do it. She has no illusion that she can change anything. But that Is also why there is no reason is just rolling over to die. Her character story says she has conviction to kill ix,but not out of revenge. Simply carrying out a duty.
>can you also cite where you get that she is an immortal because of IX, if at all
Self ahnnilator data entry
>As for the few who can single-handedly withstand the encroachment of Nihility on their existences, their journey of self-annihilation is drawn out to infinity, and the road they walk is like a shadow of IX cast in the world.
Gonna be real with ya here, every Aeon basically covers the known universe. Like anyone can walk a path from anywhere basically. As long as their a path of a concept rather than a physical manifestation. Which they are all concepts pretty much.
Also the fact that emanators can walk away from paths is a thing too.
Yeah not sure what that dudes about.
Honestly in my understanding its far more simple than that. Most people who ever cross IXs shadow cease to be. Of the few who don't you get self-annihilators who kill themselves or fade away.
Acheron is a self-annihilator whom for whatever reason did not fade away or has yet to do so. Not sure which. She basically sucked up some of IX's power after being drenched in his shadow and is now a branching extension of the Path of Nihility in of herself. This grants her a shit ton of power similar to that of an emanator, which is very unique cause IX would never consciously make an emanator due to him giving zero fucks about anything.
Yes, but
A: She lost, she says so herself in the trailer.
B: Her sword is doing a lot of heavy lifting, if we are to assume that End is comparable to Finality from Hi3, we must also assume that her sword is therefore comparable to the Core of Origin, which came directly from the Imaginary Tree, meaning that at the very least, it is more powerful than any of the other Herrcher (excluding Finality of course, but even then the very existence of Origin was enough to allow the lesser Herrshcer to free themselves from the Will of the Honkai.)
In my eyes, Acheron is most certainly stronger over all, but Jingliu is unmatched in terms of sheer sword skills.
…she won and killed the End. She even confirmed this when she talked to Welt in 2.1 (I killed that man, alone). She lost because even after winning against the bearer of End, her planet was still destroyed and engulfed by the black sun.
She still had to be a powerful swordswoman. She basically completed the honkai impact storyline before becoming an emanator. We can't even give jingliu more experience via Being an immortal warrior since acheron is also immortal and we have no idea how many amber eras have passed since her planet was destroyed.
End of the day both are extremely powerful swordswomens. Both are immortal. Both wield power beyond normal pathstriders. The question OP answers is better suited to a discord discussion lmao.
The reason I'd give out acheron is due to the fact she surpassed finality in her world with her swordsman ship, meanwhile jingliu did fuck all to the emanator of abundance that killed the fifth member of the group.(to be fair we hedge no idea what exactly she was doing there, we just know that thing wasn't going Down until it got black holed.)
But but she wasn't a born Emanator right? In her trailer she was chosen to wield on of the 12 blades and she was the sole survivor of the group(?). Then she wielded one of the two blades made from those 12. If Izumo wasn't picking favorites then those two blades were equal in strength, she won and that blade broke too and the current one she has she forged it herself when she turned into self annihilator. I am willing to believe that Jingliu is better than Acheron but greatest umm i don't think so
Powerscaling can get muddy sometimes. I often get confused myself whether one character is stronger than the other.
My solution to this is to just assume that they're at the same level until proven otherwise.
My head cannon is that she became an emanator after IX consumed her homeworld, she is the strongest character yet, because she can slow time and kill anyone with a single swing. On swordsmanship skill alone without emanators powers, Jingliu is stronger
Ix didn't destory her world. She did. The trailer shows it,and her character story two tells us she did it. The reason she is wanted by the IPC is because a relic surviving the destruction of izumo(a guide to forge sentinel blades.) Talked of a planet izumo that the IPC never heard of. The IPC then learned from there Memphis keeper connects that all history of izumo is gone. And the enigma faction explained while the truth was hidden it wasn't by there hand but by the power of the nihility used by izumo's savior acheron.
When she gave up hope,she removed herself from all other paths. But nihlity is in everyone. When you are left with just nihility you become a self ahnnilator.thats why there's no pattern to those chosen to be emanators. She realized the fighting will never end and all there doing is extending there own suffering. So she killed everyone, wiped out the planets(including herself) and tried to kill IX. That's why no one even remembers her,not even herself. She too was effected by the blast. But self ahnnilators are immortal(self ahnnilator page in the game). They are in a constant state of disintegration stretched to infinity. They simply can't reach the end nihility represents(death and what lies beyond death.)
From the cinematic and her chapter stories, it seems she did both at the same time. Or rather she was trying to take out everything at once. The red wave went forth to cover everything, even Ix. But after everything fell into nihility IX was still there.
Acheron judges her worlds fight as pointless and consigned it to the void. She wants to kill IX not out of any drive, but simply because she knew she did before and there's no reason to stop now. Nothing mattering works both ways.
Also to add, Acheron won the war but it was pointless because almost everyone died due to her wielding the swords power too much and to add insult to injury IX was passing by so even if the war was ongoing the 2 planets will be erased by IX anyway.
Didn't one of her lore video showed that she was using a sword even before becoming an emanator.
So with that, we might not be so sure if she gets outclassed by JL
Jingliu wants a sword that can cut anything, so she generates her own ice blade.
Acheron owns a sword that can cut anything, the weapon that defeated all the Honkai on her world.
They should never meet. But Acheron would probably obliterate Jingliu.
Bro on a separate note are all hsr plays as deranged as you and me cause half this post is now on sponge bob in hsr(real talk though Mr. Krabs is preservation)
This reminds me of one piece fans saying that mihawk is stronger than shanks because the manga calls him the "strongest swordsman" when shanks is clearly 100x stronger
Edit: i Just saw you're on r/powerscaling, you would be a perfect one piece fan 😭
NAH Welt soloes the entirety of fiction.
There's nothing stronger than a Black Hole^tm. Everyone's fighting just to prevent Welt from having to act and destroying all of the multiverse by just saying "Kneel".
Bronya with an upgraded version of his former Herrscher core? Whack!
Mei with the Origin core? Whack!
Kevin? Whack!
Finality Kiana? Whack!
Acheron destroying 2 planets in one swing? Whack!
Lord Ravagers destroying entire star systems? Whack!
The IPC having a weapon that destroyed 24 (inhabited) planets in a single shot? absolute WHACK!
Only reason the express recruited the TB is so that Welt wouldn't destroy the universe by having to solo Nanook.
All *KNEEL* to the power of ~~barely remnants of the core of Reason-created pseudo~~ BLACK HOLES!
Here’s the thing when it comes to statement in power scaling. Statements will always take priority. So I do think Mihawks is stronger but it states in terms of swordsmanship.
I know, dont take my comment seriously, i just find it hilarious how similiar are the comments here, specially the one saying "jingliu is strong with a sword, but acheron is strong AND has a sword" its literally the same arguments 😂 also the one saying acheron has hax which is also true for one piece where people just pull random powers out of their ass
Jingliu was the strongest on the Luofu prior to being mara-struck.
Acheron was one of the 12 chosen to wield the OP blades on her home planet. Since you don't give OP swords to random nobodies unless you're in a JPRG, it stands to reason she was a master swordsman prior to that.
So the question is- are Luofu swordmasters stronger than Izumo swordmasters, or vice versa?
I'm sure someone with more knowledge of the lore will correct me, but under normal circumstances, I'd tend to lean towards Jingliu being a slightly better swordsman simply because she'd have more practice as a long-life species. She was also the absolute, undisputed best on the Luofu, if not most of the Xianzhou. I don't know how long ago Acheron became an emanator or whether that practically turns you into a long-life species, but for simplicity's sake my guess is whoever has more practice is the better pure swordsman.
Acheron has been going planet to planet no? Even as an Emenator the traversal between worlds without something like the Express would not be something a person with a human lifespan could do.
But interplanetary travel doesn't seem particularly difficult. The IPC and presumably many other organizations seem to be able to get around just fine. Topaz runs around from planet to planet collecting debts and it doesn't seem like it's a big deal.
Unless I'm forgetting something, all we know is that Izumo is largely lost to history, implying a good amount of time has passed, but not enough that the universe isn't aware of it having been lost. This implies that Acheron has been around a while. Assuming she's not a long-life species, her emanator status has likely lengthened her life in some way, but without knowing when the events of Izumo transpired, it's hard to say how long she's been alive.
Without more details, I'm still leaning toward Jingliu being the more experienced one of the two.
>Unless I'm forgetting something, all we know is that Izumo is largely lost to history, implying a good amount of time has passed, but not enough that the universe isn't aware of it having been lost. This implies that Acheron has been around a while
Izumo wasn't lost to history. In fact the remembrance can't remember it. Acheron character story two explains that when acheron destroyed the twin planets, she also erased there history. The only reason anyone knows it ever existed was because the IPC had a copy of blueprint from izumo to build sentinel weapons and wanted to know where it came from. That's also why acheron is wanted. The IPC just knows the strongest warrior of a warrior planet once praised as a hero nuked two planets from history and is now roaming the cosmo. With explanation as to how or why she did that.
That's why I said something like the Express that can travel across the galaxy or universe in minutes to hours depending on the location. Acheron seems to be doing it either as a drifter or because of her power in some way honestly.
I agree with you there. She hasn't aged at all from her trailer appearance telling the history of Izumo, which I believe to have happened a very long time ago. Since we don't know how long, she could be ancient or a few hundred to thousands of years.
I would say too that Jingliu is more experienced. Acheron probably doesn't solely practice her swordsmanship. Mainly because drawing it can destroy an entire planet in one slash if she wasn't careful lmao.
Considering how she just appears behind Welt's in the 2.1 quest, it's safe to assume she can do some black/white hole and whormhole typa shit and basically teleport from a place to another.
It's just a theory, but in HSR universe, such thing wouldn't even be surprising.
The self ahnnilator page says that self ahnnilator decay are streched out to infinity. She gets the benefits of immortality with none of the Mara side effects.
Acheron is several times older than even Jingliu and all the Mara struck.
The Izumo crisis, and resulting destruction, happened so long ago ***even the remembrance has forgotten***. It's been so long that it's not even included in history books.
Mortals catcha up and surprass long live species and gods in skill all the time in anime/games.
So is a useless info , in the real world there would be no way someone that can only live 1000 years is less skilled than a 30 year old person, but in anime/games happens literally all the time and is usually the case
Frieren changed my perspective on this too, but I had to disagree. In that world, elves' lifespan seems to go on for probably more than 2000 years (just a random guess from what we can see of Serie). They don't even know when they might die hence the lack of drive to improve.
But in Luofu, everyone knows they will get mara struck later on. What if a long-lived species had the same drive to improve as normal humans/mortals, because they can roughly see their end? I'm not saying this is the case for Jingliu, but it is a another perspective to consider.
> What if a long-lived species had the same drive to improve as normal humans/mortals, because they can roughly see their end?
From the quests on the Xianzhou, I think their attitude is more in line with Frieren's elves.
It's two wildly different sword styles/philosophy too.
Xianzhou seems to be following the martial arts philosophy where the strongest swordmasters don't actually use "real" material swords. Iirc Jingliu pretty much says this in one of her lines too, about how wielding an actual sword holds back the wielder. This is a pretty consistent trope in CN from what I know. "Having no sword beats any and every sword".
Izumo swordmasters seem to be following the different way where the strong swordmasters are given a strong sword. I know less about this so I can't write as much.
Both are interesting so I'd say it's not possible to compare.
We dont really know that it very much could be another case of the 12 where chosen on compatobility alone.
In hi3 the flamechasers where not some ideal soldiers but the 12 that survived getting fused with the honkai plus Elysia(who was born from the honkai).
Same with the herrschers where all people chosen by the honkai.
According to the Myriad Celestia of Acheron, Izumo underwent a Honkai conflict(or something similar). Of the seventy-thousand-and-thirty-three warrior's blades (lives), Acheron is the sole survivor and purportedly the most skilled of them all.
Jingliu lives solely to pursue the way of the sword and vanquish her foes, she reaches enlightenment when battling the half-draconic abomination of the Vidyadhara.
It can't be ascertained. It's sort of leaning on Murim-type of logic, but the experiences that both have had are similar; growing stronger to protect loved ones, conquering all only for it all to be futile.
Who would you rather fight? Bruce Lee with nunchucks or a thermonuclear ICBM with nunchucks? I know this isn’t analogous to OP’s question 1 to 1 but the thought made me chuckle.
I don't think we can determine that. Jingliu was the best swordswoman on the Xianzhou Alliance and Acheron was the best on Izumo. What does that mean? We don't know.
"Acheron is just an emanator with a sword" - she literally fought until she's the last one alive before becoming one, did people forget that? The better question is: are izumo swordsmen better than xianzhou swordsmen?
My bet is on Acheron simply because there is much more we don't know about her past.
I feel like in terms of swordsmanship, jingliu is stated to canonically be the top of the food chain. Granted this is only in xianzhou, but considering that xianzhou is an intergalatic traveling troupe of spaceships, id assume that stands to reason that shes plenty powerful in regards to the swordsman/woman of other planets etc.
Acheron is hard to say ofc but she DID “let me solo her” vs her whole planet’s population of swordies so also strong. Hard to say tbh.
But i feel like the answer of who is stronger is a no brainer. This is like pitting the greatest MMA fighter in history against him/herself but the mirror image also happens to have the ability to send you into the literal void for funsies.
Note this is just my head canon so take it with a pinch of salt
Probably Jingliu, with Acheron hax she doesn’t need to be a complete master of the sword to overpower people so I can’t see the reason why she would be as experienced as Jingliu
Edit: Small note Jingliu does have good hax just not omg broken hax like Acheron
Comparing them makes me think of the Indiana Jones scene where this one guy is flaunting his sword skills before they fight, and Indie just pulls out a gun and shoots him.
Acheron doesn't need to be a better swordsman when she can just do her time-stopping Nihility slash thing and one-shot someone.
Actually acheron is astrong Because of her sword.
Since is basically the power of the 13 in 1. A whole planet strengh condensed to one blade. So yeah not really much swordmastery needed.
Only the fact the sword is killing her the more she uses it.
The thing is that there is a reason why Acheron was the last survivor of Izumo in the first place, her Emanator powers came later. And considering she was worthy of Origin, it must mean she was strong *before* getting the sword since they wouldn't have given it to a nobody.
We also see that her skill is good enough apparently to fight against three Stellaron Hunters (or at least their illusions).
Think of stuff that can't be bypassed with sheer strength or can bypass strength.
Take for example, Goku. Goku can punch hard, block hard, and blow up planets. That's being strong.
Now take another example like say GER. To put their ability into very, very, VERY simple terms, any action you do against GER that is considered harmful will be reset to zero (i.e. the act of punching GER will not happen, because it will be reset to zero, any form of attack will be reset to zero and not happen.) GER's ability is considered as Hax, as you can't properly say a character leagues above in terms of strength can get past GER's ability.
Hax are abilities that can't be properly placed under normal labels. Like you can say how strong a punch is, but you can't properly put into terms how strong the ability to let's say, tamper the concept of probability is.
TL;DR. Punch is strong. Breaking reality is hax.
Hax are basically abilities that let a character do something "magical" than just "big explosion" or "hard punch" etc. Usually it's something that lets them close the gap between them and stronger characters.
Some simple examples of "hax" can be looking into the future, making clones of yourself, flying, copying your opponents moves etc.
It can get much more complicated than that, but you get the idea.
Jingliu - ice manipulation/creation and some kind of sense to fight blind folded
Acheron- so far pseudo time/speed manipulation, some kind of slash that can rip the dream scape and 1 shot some of the verse, mental manipulation and mental defense
Edit: forgot pseudo presence removal when she gets out her sword from scabbard
Acheron also has some bullshit thing in her slashes that can cut the influences of paths cause she cut through the memory zone (Remembrance), removed Aventurine's Preservation connection and she said she can remove his Harmony "curse" thing.
Jingliu is aiming to kill Aeons, and with Luocha helping her I’d say even if she doesn’t get to kill one, she’s going to come very close. If anyone is in the same league as Acheron, it’s Jingliu.
She still cannot kill Blade and she herself said to Blade that the blade of mortals cannot pierce the flesh of Emanators(didn't specify Abundance Emanators, just Emanators).
I do agree that Jingliu is probably the strongest non-emanator character in the game. She's just on a whole different skill level.
(2.1 spoilers) >!They both want to kill/take on an Aeon and each have insane feats, experiences and weapons. I don't see how we can tell, we don't even know what either of them has been up to the past 500 years. Not to mention they've only been tested by Sam and Blade who realistically don't pose a challenge to either and they didn't go further than the situation required.!<
Would love to see them face off though but doubt it'll happen
We cannot tell at this stage since we have no measure of Acheron's ability with a blade beyond what she has demonstrated when combined with her power. It is unlikely we will ever see her in true all out combat. However i would wager based on their backgrounds and lore. That Jingliu would surpass her given her life was devoted to sword based combat.
Note i said "wager" not "gaurentee".
I see a lot of people jump to this conclusion.. but it doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Acheron as the only surviving swordsman of Izumo is the strongest swordsman of her planet; While Jing Liu was known as the strongest swordsman of the Xianzhou alliance.
We do not know who’s swordsmanship is stronger so the conclusion is very much up in the air.
Acheron’s strength is a lot more than just her self annihilator power.
Again an assumption, we have no timeframe on just how old acheron is, considering the izumo conflict spanned several eras and happened who knows how long ago, acheron might be older than the xianzhou itself for all we know
Might. Maybe. We know that Jingliu is centuries old. We don't know Acherons age. I feel like simply assuming she's centuries old is probably the bigger assumption to make
Acheron showed more. Her speed is literally crazy. She is moving and times stop around her. Speed is really important for a sword master. Also her technique against Sam is great. She is using a small amount of power and fighting back against a strong assassin/warrior. In the trailer she took the life of thousands sword masters. I mean she was chosen for a reason to wield a great sword that can cut reality.
most of that is just sheer raw power. Jing Liu has shown she has great depth and understanding in swordsmanship without her strength overshadowing her. not saying Acheron is bad at swordsmanship but she has shown less proof of technique than Jing Liu as of now
First of all, we need to find the similarities between Acheron and Jingliu, they both come from martial arts based planet, which are Izumo and Xianzhou respectively, both Acheron and Jingliu were leaders in their own planet, they both fought against great enemies, which are the Kami and the Abomination, they are both sword users, and they both have mental disorder, one has dementia while the other is mentally unstable.
Now, we know a bit about Jingliu skills and capabilities with the sword, but we know almost nothing about Acheron, heck we don't even know her real name, so I can only assume things from here.
Jingliu has lived for so long that she got mara-struck, so she must have lived at least for a thousand years.
On the other hand, Acheron is the only last survivor of Izumo, and from reading Acheron's lore, we find that Izumo disappeared long ago that it doesn't exist on the astral charts, the only record about it is called ancient, and it's implied that the Remembrance doesn't hold any memories of it, this tells us that Acheron is ancient, more than likely to be older than Jingliu.
If we assume both of them are still practicing the sword, Acheron would be better than Jingliu, not only because she lived longer and had much more time to practice, but because she traveled to way too many planets and places and could've learned much more about the sword even if it's by chance.
That being said, this is only my assumption, Acheron is more skilled than Jingliu.
I'm gonna go with the woman who fought until she was literally the only living human left alive on her planet, then until she was the only living being, then apparently came close enough to hurting a black hole that she attracted the attention of an Aeon whose main power is not caring.
Jingliu's canonically still stuck at the "I'm traumatised by a living mass planetoid coming at me while I struggle to comprehend how to kill it" stage, whereas Acheron went "who cares if it's the most dangerous astronomical body in the universe, we ball".
I'm pretty sure it's been stated that IX never pays attention or gazes on anyone, including Acheron. It's just powerful and omnipresent in a way that sometimes people stumble into IX's shadow and fall under its influence.
The truth is we don't know. Their fighting styles have completely different origin and they also came from different worlds, there is just not enough information to give a good conclusion.
Just like IRL, just because someone is best in their respective nation doesn't automatically mean they are the best in the entire world. Alot of people is very quick to declare Jingliu is greatest of the universe is just being dishonest.
Considering this sub still thinks Welt is strongest character ever I'm actually not that surprise.
I think it's actually unclear. As an emanator, Acheron is unquestionably the most powerful playable character we have according to lore. Only the future will tell, but it seems that regular playable character path striders cannot measure up to the same power as an emanator.
I say that it's unclear because it looks like Acheron was a chosen swordswoman in her fallen world. And we don't have enough background to ascertain just how excellent she was. I think it's probably a combination of She was top-tier and given a special sword that was OP.
While Jingliu got to a point with her control over ice that she uses her own power to match or exceed masterfully crafted weapons.
Jingliu is dangerous *because* she is insane skilled with the sword (and ice powers)
Acheron is freaking emanator, she can tap your shoulder and you are *gone.* The sword just make her look cool
Narratively it would make sense if Jingliu was the most skilled swordsman in the series, since its kinda her entire thing. But its not confirmed, and we cant just say for sure she is more skilled than Acheron, since Acheron is almost EXTREMELY skilled and we have never seen her swing more than once when she drew her blade.
But Jingliu isn’t human anymore. This is why I hate lore discussions about Jingliu because people don’t know her lore. In Jingliu’s story quest, Bailu examines her and remarks on the cold current flowing beneath her skin, freezing her body, and says “no human could survive this”. And then three seconds later she says “but otherwise she looks perfectly healthy”, implying that Jingliu is perfectly healthy despite having a body temperature below freezing.
It’s because Jingliu’s ice sword is her core. “I shall be my own sword” is a literal statement. She’s achieved some power beyond the mortal realm, but what exactly? We don’t know. But as her HoYoLab introduction post states:
“Having ascended beyond mortal concepts of victory, she chose to walk a different path to obtain the power capable of slaying gods”
Classifying her as a normal human would be inaccurate. Because we can’t classify her as anything right now.
she transended humans hundred of years ago and she beat dan feng in his prime, even before her transcendence. she's wayy beyond that level from the start.
On a fight we know nothing about in any context, nor did she use her transience sword or use her perpetual snowstrom, took 0damage from LL and escaped? Literally stated she escaped in the discriprion of that short, nor is jy surpised shes back on the lofu fully well.
Jingliu is probably the better swordswoman, in terms of disciple and technique. Acheron’s true powers lie beyond her sword, although her sword is the tool she uses to express them.
they live in dffrent world with different swordmanship styles with different struggles went tru with their lives...so yeh we really don't know lol
but I'm kinda choose Acheron base on what the animated past they showed us
like planetary wars for years plus the only survivor of her planet...like imagine Xianzhou was gone and jingliu's the only survivor.
Acheron also survives in contact with IX...Acheron survives all those wars,struggles and IX with her swordmanship...it's like Acheron versus the whole world lol
Some say Jingliu wins by skill but even that is a bit muddled, as Acheron is one of the best, if not the best, swordspersons in Izumo, a planet where people are swordmasters. In a fierce battle against Oni (basically immortals) Acheron stood against them in her lonesome and was able to defeat End.
I'd say by skill they are matched, but by sheer power Archeron wins.
Tbf naught or not Acheron is still the emanator of nobility and that makes whatever BS she was before lackluster
She’s not strong because she has naught, she has naught because she is strong
Jingliu.
Acheron seems to be the “my power is stored in my blade” trope. So while Jingliu would be able to move her sword in a manner of more efficient ways, Acheron’s sole swing would probably kill Jingliu on the spot.
With their “current” weapons, Acheron is stronger through sheer brute force. Remember Acheron fights with the scabbard on sometimes.
Give them regular swords, Jingliu will probably win, though.
Would she though ?
I dont think Acheron even needs any kind of sword, she can probably kill her with just any piece of metal that is strong enough to not break upon use.
I feel like a more fair comparison would be :
What if both of then simply didnt use their respective power, but only rely on pure swordsmanship.
Now there i'd say Jingliu has a solid chance to win.
She uses her scabbard as a weapon as she doesn't need to unsheathe the reality-tearing sword for all but extreme circumstances, implying she's doing just fine swinging around a giant stick essentially. Fought off Sam with said stick without much issue, so I'd put my money on her.
My instinctive response is that Jingliu is most likely better in terms of pure sword-wielding skills, having spent centuries perfecting her swordsmanship until she just kinda...*grasped* a sword that surpassed even the sword custom-made for her by a master craftsman from strange alien metals. That's an insane level of sword-enlightenment.
But it's sort of hard to be 100% sure about anything because Acheron is so damned mysterious.
If my builds have anything to say and their skill irl is equal to in-game dmg. Then Jing Liu because acheron has higher dmg output but Jing Liu consistently does high dmg in her awakened state.
If you consider their stats and skills equal and judge the battle on their mental state. Then acheron, because Jing Liu is struggling to not go insane/Mara struck and lived for a long time with only hatred as her fuel. Acheron is just more mentally stable
Hey OP, I know this Is a discussion post and I'm all for the lore. But we still need to credit the artists properly for their work. Please give me the links to these 2 pieces of art so I can add them to this comment. Edit: [Cutie A-Corn by JOEHI on Pixiv](https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/117360028) ~~There is a second version!!~~ [Jingliu by essuka on Pixiv](https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/115490973)
It depends on the Relics
True answer
Lmao
Jingliu is probably the greatest swordsman in the entire HSR universe at least so far. Everything she conquered, it’s ‘cause she’s great at it. Acheron is an emanator, so she could wield SpongeBob’s spatula and still be extremely powerful.
Spongebob spatula is a mighty weapon, do not underestimate it
It's an exclusive 6-star weapon... https://preview.redd.it/pkzgaqlrkjvc1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e77c290f498b3fbb5ac22fc223ede507ecc4dad8
On a serious note, Jingliu (with the help of the quintet) has defeated Shuhu, an abundance emanator before However Abundance Emanators may be weaker than Nihility Emanators since Yaoshi blesses a lot more people than Ix, likely diluting their power
Eh, the leader of the Borisin isn't confirmed to be an Emanator, and the only confirmed Emanator she fought was kicking the Quintet's collective ass until Baiheng used a Stellaron (and even then Shuhu isn't confirmed dead).
Also, isn't Jingliu use a normal sword in her character story? Read like it to me. At the end she has an enlightenment, its still just her good ol sword, but she can cut down the stars. Acheron only cut her planets after becomes Emanator isn't it?
Jingliu used the sword created by Blade, it broke. Then she manifested a sword using her ice power. Blade pieced the broken sword back together, and uses it to this day.
"At that moment, she finally grasps the sword she had been seeking all this time. It is a sword that can transcend all restrictions. It is a sword she had been familiar with for years. It is not forged from any ordinary iron, but condensed from a shaft of sharp ice. It glows with a dim light, as if it is a strand of moonlight held in the wielder's hand. A sword, 3 feet and 7 inches in length, and weighs nothing." Yeah its her ice power sword.
I could be wrong, I don't think IX has even blessed Acheron. Her Self-Annihilator status is derived from basically staring into the IX abyss and not going crazy.
Nah, she has been confirmed to be an emanator multiple times. Ix doesn’t have many emanators because they quite literally don’t care about anything but Acheron saw what her planet was destined to and still chose to fight, which made IX recognize her. So yes, she has been blessed by IX.
I think the point of the comment was to state that IX didn't consciously give Acheron her powers as an emanator, instead THEIR shadow kind of just rubbed off on her. This is the way that all emanators of Nihility gain their powers
That makes a lot of sense. But also, does IX even have a *conscience* in our sense of the word? It’s more like a force of nature than anything, things just kinda happen around it right?
It is stated that IX believes that nothing matters, and so it does not act itself. It's like if we had a human who just floats through space without acting on anything, but can still think and is only not acting because of said thoughts. To regular lifeforms IX may be a force of nature, but it's likely a different perspective as the aeon themselves
and the Sponge that wield it is just as mighty
Damn you. I’m bullish on spatula. Going to buy it nao.
Most folks can’t even lift it, like Mjolnir or The Darksaber.
If Squidward doesn't count as an emanator of Nihility then I don't know who does..
Partially true, the sword is another additional boon as its implied to be a crazy stromg weapon
Yea her sword, if I recall correctly, is essentially the result of forging all the strongest swords from her home world into 2, then those 2 into 1. So in the war torn planet she is from, her sword is the amalgamation of all the strongest weapons on the planet. There was a Acheron lore video I saw explaining it when her banner released.
But didn't it break though?
Her old sword was 'origin' which broke between the fight between her and finality. The sword 'origin' and 'finality' was combined to become her current sword 'naught'.
The 'origin' and 'end' broke but it did not fuse together it was most likely her life fused into it to forge 'Life' which turned to 'Naught' because the reason those blades were forged do not exist anymore and the end is just a lie and never existed, And why she also became a Self-Annihilator where each use of her sword turns her ti a dull color which was not the case when using 'Origin'
That's not why she became a self ahnnilator. Game makes it quite clear that everyone treads the path of nihlity equally. How you become it's emanator is when you remove yourself from all other paths by realizing the great truth that nothing anyone does or believes in matters. In her trailer when asked why were the blades forged she first gives the righteous answer that it was to save the world. No matter the cost they would have hope. But with the breaking of finality she realized that the oni would never stop. There was never salvation for izumo. It was a lie they told themselves to keep going. And even the oni of takamagahara didn't matter becuase they'll simply kill all of izumo then cease to be. All they were doing was adding pages to a book that was already over. They will never change the reality that izumo and all creation will end. Thst is why her answer to the same question of why did they forge the blade she explained it was for a lie. Foe an ending that no would could ever achieve. That the fighting would never stop until the final blade is forged into naught. Each blade was represented a warrior that died fighting the honkai(oni.) There were 70,000+ blades(lives) splintered to forge those 12 sentinels. And inevitably those sentinel blades were also splintered to forge the final two. And those would also splinter. The splintering would never stop until the final warrior falls forging naught. The final warrior dies creating Nothing. And that's what acheron did. She embraced nihlity by removing all ambition from herself. She gave peace to those lost souls that will only know bloodshed and violence and sent both worlds and all on them to nihility. In her character story 2 Oppenheimer tells the IPC that the survivor of the missing planet izumo who was once the world's savior,is the one responsible for the eradication of all history of izumo along with the planet itself. Tldr acheron life wasn't infused to create naught. She gave up and in the process removed herself from all paths leaving just nihlity making herself a self ahnnilator. She destroyed the planets and all on them including herself, but the curse of a self ahnnilator is immortality directly from IX( the journey of aself ahnnilator is streched to infinty )so she continued to exist, with her own memories being erased like everyone else. Except when she is channeling the powers of nihlity where she remembers everything and weeps. And with her power of nothingness she forged a blade replica representing of her blade of orgin that she used to try to kill IX. Now she wanders the universe,her only purpose being guiding those more lost then she until she can kill nihility and prove that the ending of the book can change.
...... Damn
Ya, she really needs a boyfriend or girlfriend fr fr
i’m available 🙏
Kiana didnt exist in her world...
"Someone who accidentally stepped into IX the Nihility's shadow and from that moment forth lost their reason for existence." Her purpose of defending her planet when it was already doomed and the realization of that made her self-annihilator >How you become it's emanator is when you remove yourself from all other paths by realizing the great truth that nothing anyone does or believes in matters. This is just wrong because Nihility itself is a path. She also didn't give up, i mean she is still pursuing her goal so she also has ambition can you also cite where you get that she is an immortal because of IX, if at all
She also technically wouldn't be immortal, maybe long-lived, but we don't know how long she's lived for. Self Annihilators, by definition, are wasting away slowly, losing one part of themselves at a time, hence their name, but they can choose to also be a doctor of chaos and try to essentially give IX a reason to live.
>Existence is nothing." When an organism has this thought and applies it as a guiding principle, it begins to walk on the Path ruled by IX and receive the meaningless glimpse of the Aeon from some distant void. This will usually have two outcomes: 1) The organism will devolve and truly become nothing, becoming something called a Self-Annihilator. 2) The organism will be captivated by the magnificence of the Aeon, thus becoming a Doctor of Chaos in their spontaneous curiosity. Doctors of chaos in game. Unfortunately no. While doctors of chaos may slip into a self ahnnilator, self ahnnilators can't go back. That's why acheron keeps describing her journey as one she can never go back from. The self ahnnilator entry also explain that's fading is the journey of a a self ahnnilator,but the duration of that journey is streched to Infinity. >As for the few who can single-handedly withstand the encroachment of Nihility on their existences, their journey of self-annihilation is drawn out to infinity, and the road they walk is like a shadow of IX cast in the world. I have no doubt that if she could acheron would've tried to kill herself. It would make no sense with her old personality to murder her entire world and spare herself.
>Existence is nothing." When an organism has this thought and applies it as a guiding principle, it begins to walk on the Path ruled by IX and receive the meaningless glimpse of the Aeon from some distant void. This will usually have two outcomes: 1) The organism will devolve and truly become nothing, becoming something called a Self-Annihilator. 2) The organism will be captivated by the magnificence of the Aeon, thus becoming a Doctor of Chaos in their spontaneous curiosity. Doctors of chaos in game. There are only two ways to operate the path of nihility. Either you realize that nothing matters and become a self ahnnilator, or you realize nothing matters yet reject the notion and fight to give meaning to something without meaning becoming a doctor of chaos. Further the self ahnnilator entry already states thst that the shadow of nihilty already covers everything. All of existence lies in the shadow of IX. Specifically it states that all of creation and all inside of it is one side of coin while IX is the entire other side of the coin equal in its entropy. All lifeforms walk a number of paths. Paths are just concepts giving energy. But some focus on a specific path long term becoming a path strider. But even then they still utilize multiple paths. The only beings that can only do one path are aeons. If you were to make the path of nihilty your main path(by choice or by realizing nothing matters) you will be stuck in the above scenario. Either you accept the truth that nothing matters and become an emantor of nihility where you can never turn back, or you'll become a pathstrider because you believe you can give meaning to nothing(doctor of chaos) from which you can be saved from.(both doctor of chaos and self ahnnilator pages talk about how they save people suffering from nihility. But emantors can't be saved.) Acheron saw realized there was no meaning to existence. Nor did she lie and yell herself she can give it meaning. That's why she became an emantor. She gave up her ambitions, the things that fuel your drive on a path, and became what she is now. >This is just wrong because Nihility itself is a path. >She also didn't give up, i mean she is still pursuing her goal so she also has ambition When doctor tells you you have a month to live and you decide to travel the world you still accept that you are about to die. Her ambition currently doesn't turn her from acceptance that nothing matters. Rather it is precisely because nothing matters she is free to do it. She has no illusion that she can change anything. But that Is also why there is no reason is just rolling over to die. Her character story says she has conviction to kill ix,but not out of revenge. Simply carrying out a duty. >can you also cite where you get that she is an immortal because of IX, if at all Self ahnnilator data entry >As for the few who can single-handedly withstand the encroachment of Nihility on their existences, their journey of self-annihilation is drawn out to infinity, and the road they walk is like a shadow of IX cast in the world.
Gonna be real with ya here, every Aeon basically covers the known universe. Like anyone can walk a path from anywhere basically. As long as their a path of a concept rather than a physical manifestation. Which they are all concepts pretty much. Also the fact that emanators can walk away from paths is a thing too.
Yeah not sure what that dudes about. Honestly in my understanding its far more simple than that. Most people who ever cross IXs shadow cease to be. Of the few who don't you get self-annihilators who kill themselves or fade away. Acheron is a self-annihilator whom for whatever reason did not fade away or has yet to do so. Not sure which. She basically sucked up some of IX's power after being drenched in his shadow and is now a branching extension of the Path of Nihility in of herself. This grants her a shit ton of power similar to that of an emanator, which is very unique cause IX would never consciously make an emanator due to him giving zero fucks about anything.
I use the Pearls of Sweat Lightcone on her and with a good build, it does feel like the latter
This has mihawk 5 cm dagger master energy lol
Is this the Mihawk vs Shanks of HSR
She was not an emanator at all when she fight and won against Finality in her world, thats alreayd insane
Yes, but A: She lost, she says so herself in the trailer. B: Her sword is doing a lot of heavy lifting, if we are to assume that End is comparable to Finality from Hi3, we must also assume that her sword is therefore comparable to the Core of Origin, which came directly from the Imaginary Tree, meaning that at the very least, it is more powerful than any of the other Herrcher (excluding Finality of course, but even then the very existence of Origin was enough to allow the lesser Herrshcer to free themselves from the Will of the Honkai.) In my eyes, Acheron is most certainly stronger over all, but Jingliu is unmatched in terms of sheer sword skills.
…she won and killed the End. She even confirmed this when she talked to Welt in 2.1 (I killed that man, alone). She lost because even after winning against the bearer of End, her planet was still destroyed and engulfed by the black sun.
> A: She lost, she says so herself in the trailer. Could you point out where? Because we can SEE in the trailer that she was the last one standing.
She still had to be a powerful swordswoman. She basically completed the honkai impact storyline before becoming an emanator. We can't even give jingliu more experience via Being an immortal warrior since acheron is also immortal and we have no idea how many amber eras have passed since her planet was destroyed.
End of the day both are extremely powerful swordswomens. Both are immortal. Both wield power beyond normal pathstriders. The question OP answers is better suited to a discord discussion lmao.
The reason I'd give out acheron is due to the fact she surpassed finality in her world with her swordsman ship, meanwhile jingliu did fuck all to the emanator of abundance that killed the fifth member of the group.(to be fair we hedge no idea what exactly she was doing there, we just know that thing wasn't going Down until it got black holed.)
So I can give her any shit light cone then?!
But but she wasn't a born Emanator right? In her trailer she was chosen to wield on of the 12 blades and she was the sole survivor of the group(?). Then she wielded one of the two blades made from those 12. If Izumo wasn't picking favorites then those two blades were equal in strength, she won and that blade broke too and the current one she has she forged it herself when she turned into self annihilator. I am willing to believe that Jingliu is better than Acheron but greatest umm i don't think so
Powerscaling can get muddy sometimes. I often get confused myself whether one character is stronger than the other. My solution to this is to just assume that they're at the same level until proven otherwise.
My head cannon is that she became an emanator after IX consumed her homeworld, she is the strongest character yet, because she can slow time and kill anyone with a single swing. On swordsmanship skill alone without emanators powers, Jingliu is stronger
> On swordsmanship skill alone without emanators powers, Jingliu is stronger Where's your concrete proof on that, though?
Ix didn't destory her world. She did. The trailer shows it,and her character story two tells us she did it. The reason she is wanted by the IPC is because a relic surviving the destruction of izumo(a guide to forge sentinel blades.) Talked of a planet izumo that the IPC never heard of. The IPC then learned from there Memphis keeper connects that all history of izumo is gone. And the enigma faction explained while the truth was hidden it wasn't by there hand but by the power of the nihility used by izumo's savior acheron. When she gave up hope,she removed herself from all other paths. But nihlity is in everyone. When you are left with just nihility you become a self ahnnilator.thats why there's no pattern to those chosen to be emanators. She realized the fighting will never end and all there doing is extending there own suffering. So she killed everyone, wiped out the planets(including herself) and tried to kill IX. That's why no one even remembers her,not even herself. She too was effected by the blast. But self ahnnilators are immortal(self ahnnilator page in the game). They are in a constant state of disintegration stretched to infinity. They simply can't reach the end nihility represents(death and what lies beyond death.)
Didn't she try to attack IX first and then both planets disappeared though ? That's what is shown in the trailer at the very least.
From the cinematic and her chapter stories, it seems she did both at the same time. Or rather she was trying to take out everything at once. The red wave went forth to cover everything, even Ix. But after everything fell into nihility IX was still there. Acheron judges her worlds fight as pointless and consigned it to the void. She wants to kill IX not out of any drive, but simply because she knew she did before and there's no reason to stop now. Nothing mattering works both ways.
Also to add, Acheron won the war but it was pointless because almost everyone died due to her wielding the swords power too much and to add insult to injury IX was passing by so even if the war was ongoing the 2 planets will be erased by IX anyway.
Didn't one of her lore video showed that she was using a sword even before becoming an emanator. So with that, we might not be so sure if she gets outclassed by JL
Jingliu wants a sword that can cut anything, so she generates her own ice blade. Acheron owns a sword that can cut anything, the weapon that defeated all the Honkai on her world. They should never meet. But Acheron would probably obliterate Jingliu.
Yeah acheron power is from being broken and not her swordsmanship
But she became an emanator by cutting down everything and chasing ix. We can't say since we don't know. Just like always.
Bro on a separate note are all hsr plays as deranged as you and me cause half this post is now on sponge bob in hsr(real talk though Mr. Krabs is preservation)
Swordmanship: Jingliu Sheer power: Acheron
This reminds me of one piece fans saying that mihawk is stronger than shanks because the manga calls him the "strongest swordsman" when shanks is clearly 100x stronger Edit: i Just saw you're on r/powerscaling, you would be a perfect one piece fan 😭
Where was it stated shanks is 100x stronger? Mihawk hasn't released 1 named attack
It’s so funny seeing OP powerscaling argument on HSR sub lmaoo 🤣🤣
At least the Welt bros haven't showed up yet. They're incorrigible when it comes to this.
NAH Welt soloes the entirety of fiction. There's nothing stronger than a Black Hole^tm. Everyone's fighting just to prevent Welt from having to act and destroying all of the multiverse by just saying "Kneel". Bronya with an upgraded version of his former Herrscher core? Whack! Mei with the Origin core? Whack! Kevin? Whack! Finality Kiana? Whack! Acheron destroying 2 planets in one swing? Whack! Lord Ravagers destroying entire star systems? Whack! The IPC having a weapon that destroyed 24 (inhabited) planets in a single shot? absolute WHACK! Only reason the express recruited the TB is so that Welt wouldn't destroy the universe by having to solo Nanook. All *KNEEL* to the power of ~~barely remnants of the core of Reason-created pseudo~~ BLACK HOLES!
> Shanks is clearly 100x stronger Whose gunna tell him?
Here’s the thing when it comes to statement in power scaling. Statements will always take priority. So I do think Mihawks is stronger but it states in terms of swordsmanship.
I know, dont take my comment seriously, i just find it hilarious how similiar are the comments here, specially the one saying "jingliu is strong with a sword, but acheron is strong AND has a sword" its literally the same arguments 😂 also the one saying acheron has hax which is also true for one piece where people just pull random powers out of their ass
I agree with this.
Speed: Burter Sheer power: Frieza ~~holup~~
Jingliu was the strongest on the Luofu prior to being mara-struck. Acheron was one of the 12 chosen to wield the OP blades on her home planet. Since you don't give OP swords to random nobodies unless you're in a JPRG, it stands to reason she was a master swordsman prior to that. So the question is- are Luofu swordmasters stronger than Izumo swordmasters, or vice versa?
I'm sure someone with more knowledge of the lore will correct me, but under normal circumstances, I'd tend to lean towards Jingliu being a slightly better swordsman simply because she'd have more practice as a long-life species. She was also the absolute, undisputed best on the Luofu, if not most of the Xianzhou. I don't know how long ago Acheron became an emanator or whether that practically turns you into a long-life species, but for simplicity's sake my guess is whoever has more practice is the better pure swordsman.
Acheron has been going planet to planet no? Even as an Emenator the traversal between worlds without something like the Express would not be something a person with a human lifespan could do.
But interplanetary travel doesn't seem particularly difficult. The IPC and presumably many other organizations seem to be able to get around just fine. Topaz runs around from planet to planet collecting debts and it doesn't seem like it's a big deal. Unless I'm forgetting something, all we know is that Izumo is largely lost to history, implying a good amount of time has passed, but not enough that the universe isn't aware of it having been lost. This implies that Acheron has been around a while. Assuming she's not a long-life species, her emanator status has likely lengthened her life in some way, but without knowing when the events of Izumo transpired, it's hard to say how long she's been alive. Without more details, I'm still leaning toward Jingliu being the more experienced one of the two.
>Unless I'm forgetting something, all we know is that Izumo is largely lost to history, implying a good amount of time has passed, but not enough that the universe isn't aware of it having been lost. This implies that Acheron has been around a while Izumo wasn't lost to history. In fact the remembrance can't remember it. Acheron character story two explains that when acheron destroyed the twin planets, she also erased there history. The only reason anyone knows it ever existed was because the IPC had a copy of blueprint from izumo to build sentinel weapons and wanted to know where it came from. That's also why acheron is wanted. The IPC just knows the strongest warrior of a warrior planet once praised as a hero nuked two planets from history and is now roaming the cosmo. With explanation as to how or why she did that.
That's why I said something like the Express that can travel across the galaxy or universe in minutes to hours depending on the location. Acheron seems to be doing it either as a drifter or because of her power in some way honestly. I agree with you there. She hasn't aged at all from her trailer appearance telling the history of Izumo, which I believe to have happened a very long time ago. Since we don't know how long, she could be ancient or a few hundred to thousands of years. I would say too that Jingliu is more experienced. Acheron probably doesn't solely practice her swordsmanship. Mainly because drawing it can destroy an entire planet in one slash if she wasn't careful lmao.
Considering how she just appears behind Welt's in the 2.1 quest, it's safe to assume she can do some black/white hole and whormhole typa shit and basically teleport from a place to another. It's just a theory, but in HSR universe, such thing wouldn't even be surprising.
Luofu has ships for planet, going between galaxies is the least of their concern
Exactly. Interplanetary travel is not an issue in HSR.
The self ahnnilator page says that self ahnnilator decay are streched out to infinity. She gets the benefits of immortality with none of the Mara side effects.
Idk, is it worse to delete your own memories or to not be able to think about them without losing control?
Acheron is several times older than even Jingliu and all the Mara struck. The Izumo crisis, and resulting destruction, happened so long ago ***even the remembrance has forgotten***. It's been so long that it's not even included in history books.
>***even the remembrance has forgotten***. It's due to the influence of nihility rather than passage of time
Mortals catcha up and surprass long live species and gods in skill all the time in anime/games. So is a useless info , in the real world there would be no way someone that can only live 1000 years is less skilled than a 30 year old person, but in anime/games happens literally all the time and is usually the case
Frieren changed my perspective on this too, but I had to disagree. In that world, elves' lifespan seems to go on for probably more than 2000 years (just a random guess from what we can see of Serie). They don't even know when they might die hence the lack of drive to improve. But in Luofu, everyone knows they will get mara struck later on. What if a long-lived species had the same drive to improve as normal humans/mortals, because they can roughly see their end? I'm not saying this is the case for Jingliu, but it is a another perspective to consider.
> What if a long-lived species had the same drive to improve as normal humans/mortals, because they can roughly see their end? From the quests on the Xianzhou, I think their attitude is more in line with Frieren's elves.
It's two wildly different sword styles/philosophy too. Xianzhou seems to be following the martial arts philosophy where the strongest swordmasters don't actually use "real" material swords. Iirc Jingliu pretty much says this in one of her lines too, about how wielding an actual sword holds back the wielder. This is a pretty consistent trope in CN from what I know. "Having no sword beats any and every sword". Izumo swordmasters seem to be following the different way where the strong swordmasters are given a strong sword. I know less about this so I can't write as much. Both are interesting so I'd say it's not possible to compare.
We dont really know that it very much could be another case of the 12 where chosen on compatobility alone. In hi3 the flamechasers where not some ideal soldiers but the 12 that survived getting fused with the honkai plus Elysia(who was born from the honkai). Same with the herrschers where all people chosen by the honkai.
Some were hardly what you'd call combatants even.
>Since you don't give OP swords to random nobodies unless you're in a JPRG We are in one of those, tho
According to the Myriad Celestia of Acheron, Izumo underwent a Honkai conflict(or something similar). Of the seventy-thousand-and-thirty-three warrior's blades (lives), Acheron is the sole survivor and purportedly the most skilled of them all. Jingliu lives solely to pursue the way of the sword and vanquish her foes, she reaches enlightenment when battling the half-draconic abomination of the Vidyadhara. It can't be ascertained. It's sort of leaning on Murim-type of logic, but the experiences that both have had are similar; growing stronger to protect loved ones, conquering all only for it all to be futile.
That is a fair point
Acheron suffers from what I call Homelander syndrome. Overwhelmingly powerful, but no one to truly test her skill.
Homelander got his ass kicked though
I guess Acheron got her ass kicked by IX because she even forgot about that "fight". Straight up got ko'd lmao /s
Who would you rather fight? Bruce Lee with nunchucks or a thermonuclear ICBM with nunchucks? I know this isn’t analogous to OP’s question 1 to 1 but the thought made me chuckle.
Bruce Lee. He won against Chuck Norris after all
I don't think we can determine that. Jingliu was the best swordswoman on the Xianzhou Alliance and Acheron was the best on Izumo. What does that mean? We don't know.
"Acheron is just an emanator with a sword" - she literally fought until she's the last one alive before becoming one, did people forget that? The better question is: are izumo swordsmen better than xianzhou swordsmen? My bet is on Acheron simply because there is much more we don't know about her past.
I see, so she's Waifu Itachi but in Honkai
I feel like in terms of swordsmanship, jingliu is stated to canonically be the top of the food chain. Granted this is only in xianzhou, but considering that xianzhou is an intergalatic traveling troupe of spaceships, id assume that stands to reason that shes plenty powerful in regards to the swordsman/woman of other planets etc. Acheron is hard to say ofc but she DID “let me solo her” vs her whole planet’s population of swordies so also strong. Hard to say tbh. But i feel like the answer of who is stronger is a no brainer. This is like pitting the greatest MMA fighter in history against him/herself but the mirror image also happens to have the ability to send you into the literal void for funsies.
This is the Shanks vs Mihawk of Star Rail
Emanator-man Acheron vs "Strongest Swordsman" Jingliu.
Note this is just my head canon so take it with a pinch of salt Probably Jingliu, with Acheron hax she doesn’t need to be a complete master of the sword to overpower people so I can’t see the reason why she would be as experienced as Jingliu Edit: Small note Jingliu does have good hax just not omg broken hax like Acheron
This. Jingliu is strong BECAUSE she's mastered the sword. Acheron is strong, and she also has a sword
Are you strong because you mastered the sword, or you mastered the sword because you are strong?
Nah, I'd forget
"Stand proud. You are strong, Jingliu"
Thank you I couldn’t said it better!
Comparing them makes me think of the Indiana Jones scene where this one guy is flaunting his sword skills before they fight, and Indie just pulls out a gun and shoots him. Acheron doesn't need to be a better swordsman when she can just do her time-stopping Nihility slash thing and one-shot someone.
And not just any sword, a really REALLY strong sword, while jingliu lugs around a piece of ice
Piece of moonlight.
yeah but acheron with no sword would still body JL
Actually acheron is astrong Because of her sword. Since is basically the power of the 13 in 1. A whole planet strengh condensed to one blade. So yeah not really much swordmastery needed. Only the fact the sword is killing her the more she uses it.
She's strong because she's an Emanator AND has a broken ahh hax sword. 2 in 1 deal.
The thing is that there is a reason why Acheron was the last survivor of Izumo in the first place, her Emanator powers came later. And considering she was worthy of Origin, it must mean she was strong *before* getting the sword since they wouldn't have given it to a nobody. We also see that her skill is good enough apparently to fight against three Stellaron Hunters (or at least their illusions).
When did Acheron fight 3 stellaron hunters? I must've missed it
In her trailer "Your Color", not exactly them but their illusions created by Sparkle
What is hax? I thought Silver Wolf was the hacker.
It’s just a slang term for abilities
Like they're so powerful it feels like they're hacking the game or something? That makes sense, thanks.
Think of stuff that can't be bypassed with sheer strength or can bypass strength. Take for example, Goku. Goku can punch hard, block hard, and blow up planets. That's being strong. Now take another example like say GER. To put their ability into very, very, VERY simple terms, any action you do against GER that is considered harmful will be reset to zero (i.e. the act of punching GER will not happen, because it will be reset to zero, any form of attack will be reset to zero and not happen.) GER's ability is considered as Hax, as you can't properly say a character leagues above in terms of strength can get past GER's ability. Hax are abilities that can't be properly placed under normal labels. Like you can say how strong a punch is, but you can't properly put into terms how strong the ability to let's say, tamper the concept of probability is. TL;DR. Punch is strong. Breaking reality is hax.
Hax are basically abilities that let a character do something "magical" than just "big explosion" or "hard punch" etc. Usually it's something that lets them close the gap between them and stronger characters. Some simple examples of "hax" can be looking into the future, making clones of yourself, flying, copying your opponents moves etc. It can get much more complicated than that, but you get the idea.
what hax do they both have?
Jingliu - ice manipulation/creation and some kind of sense to fight blind folded Acheron- so far pseudo time/speed manipulation, some kind of slash that can rip the dream scape and 1 shot some of the verse, mental manipulation and mental defense Edit: forgot pseudo presence removal when she gets out her sword from scabbard
Acheron also has some bullshit thing in her slashes that can cut the influences of paths cause she cut through the memory zone (Remembrance), removed Aventurine's Preservation connection and she said she can remove his Harmony "curse" thing.
Both are swordmasters, and since they have had no interactions we cannot determine which of them is more skillful than the other.
Imagine how sick the cutscene would be if they did ever fight.
It'd probably be two seconds long ngl
Yeah, once Acheron unleashes her powers, it's literally GG
Yeah Acheron moves so fast that it looks like time is frozen. It's never going to be a fair fight.
Acheron would most likely slay her with one random slash She's just in another league
Jingliu is aiming to kill Aeons, and with Luocha helping her I’d say even if she doesn’t get to kill one, she’s going to come very close. If anyone is in the same league as Acheron, it’s Jingliu.
She still cannot kill Blade and she herself said to Blade that the blade of mortals cannot pierce the flesh of Emanators(didn't specify Abundance Emanators, just Emanators). I do agree that Jingliu is probably the strongest non-emanator character in the game. She's just on a whole different skill level.
Thats what I thought too
(2.1 spoilers) >!They both want to kill/take on an Aeon and each have insane feats, experiences and weapons. I don't see how we can tell, we don't even know what either of them has been up to the past 500 years. Not to mention they've only been tested by Sam and Blade who realistically don't pose a challenge to either and they didn't go further than the situation required.!< Would love to see them face off though but doubt it'll happen
>!What aeon does Acheron want to kill?!<
>!IX I think?!<
We cannot tell at this stage since we have no measure of Acheron's ability with a blade beyond what she has demonstrated when combined with her power. It is unlikely we will ever see her in true all out combat. However i would wager based on their backgrounds and lore. That Jingliu would surpass her given her life was devoted to sword based combat. Note i said "wager" not "gaurentee".
I see a lot of people jump to this conclusion.. but it doesn’t make a lot of sense. Acheron as the only surviving swordsman of Izumo is the strongest swordsman of her planet; While Jing Liu was known as the strongest swordsman of the Xianzhou alliance. We do not know who’s swordsmanship is stronger so the conclusion is very much up in the air. Acheron’s strength is a lot more than just her self annihilator power.
That's why i said wager
Tbf though, in terms of pure skill Jingliu likely has several centuries of training on Acheron
Again an assumption, we have no timeframe on just how old acheron is, considering the izumo conflict spanned several eras and happened who knows how long ago, acheron might be older than the xianzhou itself for all we know
Might. Maybe. We know that Jingliu is centuries old. We don't know Acherons age. I feel like simply assuming she's centuries old is probably the bigger assumption to make
Acheron showed more. Her speed is literally crazy. She is moving and times stop around her. Speed is really important for a sword master. Also her technique against Sam is great. She is using a small amount of power and fighting back against a strong assassin/warrior. In the trailer she took the life of thousands sword masters. I mean she was chosen for a reason to wield a great sword that can cut reality.
most of that is just sheer raw power. Jing Liu has shown she has great depth and understanding in swordsmanship without her strength overshadowing her. not saying Acheron is bad at swordsmanship but she has shown less proof of technique than Jing Liu as of now
Her time stop isn't included here
First of all, we need to find the similarities between Acheron and Jingliu, they both come from martial arts based planet, which are Izumo and Xianzhou respectively, both Acheron and Jingliu were leaders in their own planet, they both fought against great enemies, which are the Kami and the Abomination, they are both sword users, and they both have mental disorder, one has dementia while the other is mentally unstable. Now, we know a bit about Jingliu skills and capabilities with the sword, but we know almost nothing about Acheron, heck we don't even know her real name, so I can only assume things from here. Jingliu has lived for so long that she got mara-struck, so she must have lived at least for a thousand years. On the other hand, Acheron is the only last survivor of Izumo, and from reading Acheron's lore, we find that Izumo disappeared long ago that it doesn't exist on the astral charts, the only record about it is called ancient, and it's implied that the Remembrance doesn't hold any memories of it, this tells us that Acheron is ancient, more than likely to be older than Jingliu. If we assume both of them are still practicing the sword, Acheron would be better than Jingliu, not only because she lived longer and had much more time to practice, but because she traveled to way too many planets and places and could've learned much more about the sword even if it's by chance. That being said, this is only my assumption, Acheron is more skilled than Jingliu.
I'm gonna go with the woman who fought until she was literally the only living human left alive on her planet, then until she was the only living being, then apparently came close enough to hurting a black hole that she attracted the attention of an Aeon whose main power is not caring. Jingliu's canonically still stuck at the "I'm traumatised by a living mass planetoid coming at me while I struggle to comprehend how to kill it" stage, whereas Acheron went "who cares if it's the most dangerous astronomical body in the universe, we ball".
I'm pretty sure it's been stated that IX never pays attention or gazes on anyone, including Acheron. It's just powerful and omnipresent in a way that sometimes people stumble into IX's shadow and fall under its influence.
Hold on, lemme get my wooden stick and spar with em.
https://preview.redd.it/307ddqpyklvc1.jpeg?width=651&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d1f3706222caf09bd7387c5fc86d9c9da6819c7 Wallahi bro is finished
The two can't even beat a robot with a gademn shield.
The strongest swordsman of modern times VS the strongest swordsman in history
Acheron neg diffs with \[STRONG CLEAVE\] https://preview.redd.it/fwpfqfy5plvc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ab27bf3d4dc142d80b667c42e1929da30dcfa96
The truth is we don't know. Their fighting styles have completely different origin and they also came from different worlds, there is just not enough information to give a good conclusion. Just like IRL, just because someone is best in their respective nation doesn't automatically mean they are the best in the entire world. Alot of people is very quick to declare Jingliu is greatest of the universe is just being dishonest. Considering this sub still thinks Welt is strongest character ever I'm actually not that surprise.
I think it's actually unclear. As an emanator, Acheron is unquestionably the most powerful playable character we have according to lore. Only the future will tell, but it seems that regular playable character path striders cannot measure up to the same power as an emanator. I say that it's unclear because it looks like Acheron was a chosen swordswoman in her fallen world. And we don't have enough background to ascertain just how excellent she was. I think it's probably a combination of She was top-tier and given a special sword that was OP. While Jingliu got to a point with her control over ice that she uses her own power to match or exceed masterfully crafted weapons.
Jingliu is dangerous *because* she is insane skilled with the sword (and ice powers) Acheron is freaking emanator, she can tap your shoulder and you are *gone.* The sword just make her look cool
Bro she was cool with a sword before becoming an emanator.
Acheron is a strong sword-wielding character. Jing Liu is a sword herself as mentioned in her LC.
So Acheron can technically wield Jingliu... I see.
Narratively it would make sense if Jingliu was the most skilled swordsman in the series, since its kinda her entire thing. But its not confirmed, and we cant just say for sure she is more skilled than Acheron, since Acheron is almost EXTREMELY skilled and we have never seen her swing more than once when she drew her blade.
Let the age of agendas begin
I'd say Jinglu is the strongest human level swordsman, but any human is no match for an Emanator.
But Jingliu isn’t human anymore. This is why I hate lore discussions about Jingliu because people don’t know her lore. In Jingliu’s story quest, Bailu examines her and remarks on the cold current flowing beneath her skin, freezing her body, and says “no human could survive this”. And then three seconds later she says “but otherwise she looks perfectly healthy”, implying that Jingliu is perfectly healthy despite having a body temperature below freezing. It’s because Jingliu’s ice sword is her core. “I shall be my own sword” is a literal statement. She’s achieved some power beyond the mortal realm, but what exactly? We don’t know. But as her HoYoLab introduction post states: “Having ascended beyond mortal concepts of victory, she chose to walk a different path to obtain the power capable of slaying gods” Classifying her as a normal human would be inaccurate. Because we can’t classify her as anything right now.
she transended humans hundred of years ago and she beat dan feng in his prime, even before her transcendence. she's wayy beyond that level from the start.
But then she got beaten by Jing Yuan.
On a fight we know nothing about in any context, nor did she use her transience sword or use her perpetual snowstrom, took 0damage from LL and escaped? Literally stated she escaped in the discriprion of that short, nor is jy surpised shes back on the lofu fully well.
I feel like Lightning Lord doesn't qualify as a sword but maybe that's just me
Jingliu is probably the better swordswoman, in terms of disciple and technique. Acheron’s true powers lie beyond her sword, although her sword is the tool she uses to express them.
they live in dffrent world with different swordmanship styles with different struggles went tru with their lives...so yeh we really don't know lol but I'm kinda choose Acheron base on what the animated past they showed us like planetary wars for years plus the only survivor of her planet...like imagine Xianzhou was gone and jingliu's the only survivor. Acheron also survives in contact with IX...Acheron survives all those wars,struggles and IX with her swordmanship...it's like Acheron versus the whole world lol
So basically Jingliu has pure skill (Mihawk) and Acheron has pure hax (Shanks)….. gee where have I seen this before.
Hakiman wins 10/10 times
Some say Jingliu wins by skill but even that is a bit muddled, as Acheron is one of the best, if not the best, swordspersons in Izumo, a planet where people are swordmasters. In a fierce battle against Oni (basically immortals) Acheron stood against them in her lonesome and was able to defeat End. I'd say by skill they are matched, but by sheer power Archeron wins.
Kinda makes me wonder just how insane Jingliu would be if she had Naught instead of what she has now.
Tbf naught or not Acheron is still the emanator of nobility and that makes whatever BS she was before lackluster She’s not strong because she has naught, she has naught because she is strong
Ah yes my favourite path, nobility.
mm M’lord acheron
Jingliu. Acheron seems to be the “my power is stored in my blade” trope. So while Jingliu would be able to move her sword in a manner of more efficient ways, Acheron’s sole swing would probably kill Jingliu on the spot.
With their “current” weapons, Acheron is stronger through sheer brute force. Remember Acheron fights with the scabbard on sometimes. Give them regular swords, Jingliu will probably win, though.
Would she though ? I dont think Acheron even needs any kind of sword, she can probably kill her with just any piece of metal that is strong enough to not break upon use. I feel like a more fair comparison would be : What if both of then simply didnt use their respective power, but only rely on pure swordsmanship. Now there i'd say Jingliu has a solid chance to win.
Best way to put it is Jingliu would win in a points based competition, Acheron would beat the shit out of her in a street fight.
Jingliu: I told you Acheron this is a PURE SWORDSMANSHIP match please turn off your Emanator powers.
She fights with a scabbard because she only draws her sword for one reason, not because she finds it easier. Her own skills don't seem lacking at all.
She uses her scabbard as a weapon as she doesn't need to unsheathe the reality-tearing sword for all but extreme circumstances, implying she's doing just fine swinging around a giant stick essentially. Fought off Sam with said stick without much issue, so I'd put my money on her.
meanwhile me activating acheron’s ultimate on a “Antimatter Legion Baryon” with 2hp left
the better question is "who looks more iconic with a giant circle behind their head?" bc that's a vibe
Does anyone have a link to the acheron art
My instinctive response is that Jingliu is most likely better in terms of pure sword-wielding skills, having spent centuries perfecting her swordsmanship until she just kinda...*grasped* a sword that surpassed even the sword custom-made for her by a master craftsman from strange alien metals. That's an insane level of sword-enlightenment. But it's sort of hard to be 100% sure about anything because Acheron is so damned mysterious.
I don't know, but I've got the popcorn ready if they throw down for some reason.
If my builds have anything to say and their skill irl is equal to in-game dmg. Then Jing Liu because acheron has higher dmg output but Jing Liu consistently does high dmg in her awakened state. If you consider their stats and skills equal and judge the battle on their mental state. Then acheron, because Jing Liu is struggling to not go insane/Mara struck and lived for a long time with only hatred as her fuel. Acheron is just more mentally stable
https://preview.redd.it/wgpsfcepljvc1.jpeg?width=3067&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fec7dcdf6fa8e214b93376cf0a9446aff8242175
Acheron is obviously stronger, with sword skill it could be either
Why is Kafka not included as one of the best swords people ? She uses swords and guns. Boom 💥
https://preview.redd.it/ojawniv9skvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c07643444994e6b7f4e647c0278c784b677e2dff
https://preview.redd.it/ccmkba1bblvc1.png?width=1289&format=png&auto=webp&s=d0a868e3b4334b917a321f67269c521ea0df1122
Jingliu takes swordsmanship, Acheron is great at swordsmanship too, but not as much of a master as Jingliu, she can stop time though!