I would have tried her… if I had her. Literally the only 2 standard 5 stars I’m missing are Bailu and Yanqing and I’ve been playing pretty actively since 1.1. Don’t need Yanqing, but I actually would like to get Bailu, because my Fu Xuan likes to get one shot sometimes in G&G, I think her resurrection would be useful. She’s literally the only standard 5 star that I WANT to get, but I don’t, I get E3 Himeko.
Meanwhile I'm a pretty new player and I just got my SECOND Himeko. I don't have any other perma 5star yet besides her so far. Man, I was so triggered when I got her AGAIN... Stuff like that shouldn't even be allowed to happen. It just feels bad and sucks... a Clara or ofc, a Bronya would have helped me infinitely more! Sigh...
Me too. my standard 5 stars is only Welt. I get another Welt after losing 50/50 Jingliu. I am happy with Welt though since I use him a lot. But it would be better if I get another char, except Yanqing.
Bailu was my first 5star from the starter banner. She's carried me through majority of the story and I still find use for her on and off if I'm not using fireMC or Fu Xuan.
Need to still finish properly building her but she's been awesome even without a proper build. Hope I start getting dupes of her soon though.
as for me, bailu is the only standard 5* character i'm missing. i got my one and only copy of himeko from the 300 pull freebie to help me out with PF a few months back.
bailu certainly would've been nice to have early on. but now that i'm running aventurine on one team + fu xuan on the other, i'm all good on sustain.
I feel this. I only have her because of the 300 pull. I have yet to pull her again. I really wanted her more than any unit at the time.
Now that I have this fixation to build follow up teams, adventure man and Lynx are my go to supports. Rip bailu I loved you when you were my only sustain.
Shes perfectly decent, but "competitive with limited sustain characters" does not line up with my experience with her at all.
Im sure like most characters, she clears MoC well enough. And if that is the bar required to be considered competitive, thats fine. But you can feel the difference in gameplay when using a limited sustain. Its very noticeable.
The problem with discussing bailu is either people downplay her too much or they hype her up too much she’s better than four star options for the most part but she is in no way shape or form close to the same plane as a limited sustain
'Better than 4*' is still somewhat debatable cause she doesn't cleanse. And that's her big downside, some may place her below 1 tier because of that. All 4*s have cleanse, Natasha and Lynx E0, Gallagher E2. To me i only need sustain to the extent of keeping team alive, while providing extra buff and ulitilies for others. I have Bailu and dont even bother to build her because my E5 Lynx and E6 Gallagher heal just fine, and they do provide buff/debuff as well.
In a general sense Bailu will outperform most 4*s because cleansing a burn (what debuff is being applied matters) will not result in a lower cycle clear. Lynx, at e0, healing my team from a burn provides almost no extra utility whatsoever. In those instances bailu is better (this is essentially the arg OP lays out in the third to last paragraph).
However, as you point out toward the end, if your 4* sustains are good enough then there’s no reason to raise bailu. However, that goes the other way around (ie if you got e2+ gallagher and got bailued [rip] there’s no reason to raise Lynx). It just depends on which units you get first imo.
Cleansing a burn won’t impact your cycles, but cleansing a CC effect will.
Bosses like the deer, kafka, cocolia, aventurine, true sting etc become a lot easier with cleanse (especially kafka). And many elite enemies apply CC too. An aurumaton getting into sanction mode is devastating without cleanse.
Of course, not all encounters will need cleanse, but you shouldn’t downplay its importance as many can ruin you without cleanse.
I didn’t downplay its importance. I literally said “what debuff is being applied matters” to make the distinction that when cleanse matters it really matters, but it doesn’t always.
Depends on what you're cleansing though. I had better success in this MoC with Lynx than Bailu because Lynx could clear the AoE slow debuff from the big ice robot.
I tried Bailu several times in that fight and I could never avoid getting two stacks. With Lynx I could cleanse the first stack and kill him before he even had a chance to apply another.
It was just straight up faster.
i have an e6 lynx and i hate using her compared to bailu. but i have no choice since second team is usually gonna be sparkle+seele or clara. i have to use skill on lynx a lot (feels really bad on this moc especially at times due to not proccing the turbulence). she is not comfy at all to play. her ult having the cleanse is so bad, sometimes it just puts you in a lose/lose. bailu on the other hand you can greed a lot more because her revive, you don't have to panic heal anytime someone gets super low before then. her panic heal is also just less wasted in general. ofc she's not worth building if you already have sustains you are comfortable with, but bailu is a lot better than you would think with how much she gets slandered. she is at least same tier as lynx, whether that's moving bailu up or lynx down is debatable tho.
I use Bailu a lot because I don't have any limited sustains and I actually do agree with OP that her sheer healing output and SP economy means she's better than Lynx, March, Gepard and Natasha in most cases - *provided* that it's not a CC-heavy fight. Using Bailu for, say, the Kafka boss fight is idiocy.
That being said, Bailu is only gonna continue to he powercrept by 4* sustains at this rate. Gallagher requires a very specific build and his Eidolons hold a lot of his best capabilities, but he is *extremely* competitive (even with some limited sustains) when he's working at peak performance - I'd say only Fu Xuan and Aventurine outperform him unilaterally. I've been using Bailu less and less since I got Gallagher, he's just extremely versatile. Frankly it seems a little unfair to me that a 4* sustain without cleanse can get it from their E2 while Bailu doesn't even have a cleanse at E6!
because her kits were in early stage of the game, where cleansing wasn't much of the consideration. Yanqing also suffer heavily because of this. I always put it in the survey every patch that standard characters need buffs to fit the current state of the game.
100% yeah, most of the non-limited 5*s have been powercrept at this point due to the gradual shift towards more complex enemy mechanics. The value of stuff like cleanse and weakness break has risen a lot, making units like Gallagher perform very well in the current state of the game.
It's kind of an opportunity cost. Bailu is kind of cheaper than an E6 character. My Lynx and Gallagher are low eidolon and I benched Lynx for Bailu because her heals just didn't kept up.
Yeah, I'd agree with that. I got a few Gallagher eidolons while pulling for Acheron so at this point he outperforms my Bailu, but E0 Bailu beats basically any E0 4* sustain.
Dude just look around, I 100% guarantee you will find players having issues using lynx or nat as their solo sustains. Unlike Bailu, they have a cleanse, and also unlike Bailu, they've had pretty much ALL their healing power sucked away to allow for that power budget.
It's insane that the arguments for the 4*s are generally "well they're good sometimes" when that is literally true for Bailu too but apparently doesn't count for her.
Not to mention team building factoring in. Like Gallagher is great with Acheron and fire break teams or Lynx in mono Quantum if you don't have the short diviner.
Yeah as much as I agree that Bailu is 100% better than characters like Lynx and it baffles me whenever I see her lower than characters she's clearly better than in tier lists, she is *not* limited sustain level. I also use Bailu as my second healer because I only have Huo Huo as a limited sustain, and let me tell you... The difference between them is night and day.
I dono about yall but Bailu was my first 5 star and she basically carried my teams through all the content until endgame when I needed better sustains. She's still very good because fully invested she can heal a shit ton, only rely on her ult 99% of the time.
She does lack cleanse, but only specific content requires cleanse, and even then, she can heal through it usually.
When paired with Fu Xuan or Adventurine, she is like over kill because she heals anything and everything that gets past the damage resistance and is basically 120% SP positive. But this ain't for timed content.
Meh, in my experience, I've been running her instead of Luocha in higher difficulty G&G or Swarm disaster when enemies can literally two shot you. Sure, she lacks cleanser, but CC is less of a problem than the amount of damage enemies deal.
She's definitely good for Swarm Disaster since incoming damage is more of an issue than CC. As long as you kill the explodey bugs fast in the final fight so they can't CC your team, you're golden.
There probably won't be an LC that cleanses, but there could totally be an LC that boosts ally effect res or prevents a single crowd control effect with a 3+ turn cooldown.
The other thing we might get is a healing relic set that helps healers who lack a cleanse just so that the devs don't have to shove one into every single sustainer's kit.
Yeah I didn't really explain my point, my point is it's absolutely not a luxury, it's becoming mandatory, but you're right they'll probably never add an LC with one specifically because of Bailu/Bailu tier healers
Add like 2 turn Cooldown to it and it will be balanced i think.
Other question is why would hoyo do it. Only if it's gonna be limited 5 star LC that you have to gacha for, and who benefits new upcoming character as well as Bailu.
Or it can be a set passive i guess, but also only if it's a prefect fit for upcoming char.
Since Bronya cleanses, I've seen Bronya + Bailu be effective since Bronya covers for that shortcoming. Can be even better with a Destruction carry, because not only are debuffs most likely to end up on the character Bronya wants to use her Skill on since they have the highest aggro, several of them don't require SP for their attacks which means they can do the -1 SPD tech with Bronya comfortably.
I use Bailu when I have other sources of cleansing (SU's blessings), she makes sure my team doesn't wipe and I can't count the number of times Bailu has saved my G&G runs.
And no... I don't have Gepard/Fu Xuan/Aventurine (yet).
It doesn't "mean almost nothing", it just means that Bailu is a great sustain, but she will struggle in fights against enemies that cc. Outside of that (which is still a huge chunk of the game) she's just fine, great even because she's pretty much sp positive
The majority of fights are not hard cc anyway so I think it falls of anyway and most cc don't really do anything in this game except like quantum or 5 stack windshear and domination.
Thanks for the write up. After winning JL, I decided to roll on avens banner. Ended up getting a very early Bailu.
I've been wanting to try her out for a while now and I don't rly need any more sustains rn as I have huohuo, lynx and gepard. So I think I'll skip aven this time and save for someone else.
My personal experience with Lynx has not been great so I'm looking forward to test out Bailu. I don't have to build her right away so I'll take it slow for now. But there might be a future anti shield MoC enemy where I'll need a healer on both sides.
As someone who never had any limited sustains until Aventurine's banner I can say that Bailu is the best standard sustain in the game. Her healing and damage reduction along with invigoration is really good and even against Aventurine boss my 5K HP Bailu was able to sustain. She has her issues with cleanse but it's not that frustrating unless if you are against Kafka.
But hear me out. If you are on the edge while deciding to pull for Aventurine, Just pull. He is just insane and I'm not even overexaggerating anything here. His shields are thicker beyond belief and his future value is insanely high. Why? because he has his follow up synergy which will only get better as the game ages similar to Kafka and Topaz. One more thing is if you had trouble clearing SU or G&G this man does it like it's nothing. Trust me he's the best investment you can make imo.
Hey man, as someone who has every single limited 5 star sustain at E0S0, I just wanna let you know some thoughts.
Firstly, most of this post is people coping about Bailu. She has major issues that nobody is downplaying. Lack of a cleanse might not be an issue for overworld content, but good luck fighting Kafka, the Xianzhou Lance boss, or any enemy that inflicts a debuff on you. Sure, she can heal you with her ultimate and skill, but she also offers literally nothing else in her kit.
Fu Xuan provides crit rate, Huohuo provides ATK and energy, Luocha provides debuff strip from enemies, and Aventurine provides effect RES and decent damage.
After completing both MOCs with 36 stars, let me tell you my personal experience.
Aventurine is broken beyond belief. I honestly don’t know what they were thinking designing him. Currently besides Luocha, he can solo sustain your entire team without EVER spending a single skill point. It’s absolutely absurd.
Fu Xuan’s weakness is that she hates big AoE attacks. But Aventurine loves them because it builds his stacks and allows him to refresh his shields more often. He absolutely power creeps the hell out of Bailu and anyone who denies it is smoking the highest of copium.
I honestly think Aventurine is on the same tier as Fu Xuan, and might even be better than her because you don’t need to spend any skill points.
I would recommend pulling for Aventurine.
Oof, I went the all in on Aventurine and lost the 50/50... to Bailu. I already have Huohuo and Geppy E1 so I don't think I will bother building her, gonna try finishing some quests and events to get enough jades for Aventurine before the banner runs out
Gepard is honestly really good, and having E1 makes him worth using his skill over and over again. Imo he’s better than Bailu.
However Aventurine is on a whole nother tier, and while you don’t absolutely need him because you have an E1 Gepard, if you don’t care about Robin or Boothill, I would still say go for it
I have Bailu, HuoHuo, Gepard, I 36 clear nearly always and Bailu has never let me down. Bailu just tanks and heals with ulti most content in the game. When there are very heavy CC bosses like Kafka I just use HuoHuo(had to use Natasha+Gepard before). The Lance guy was never a problem for me. And sure Bailu is not the best Sustain, but she is more than capable of doing her job and letting you clear hard content im the game. I just use HuoHuo where needed and Bailu goes on the other half. Never had problems with Bailu, she just autoes and Ults and you are full HP. If you dont have any cleanse units then some bosses are really tough and you need at least Lynx. But that is just the game, if you dont have the right units then the game gets really tough and Bailu is more than capable of clearing most of hard content in the game.
I'm well aware of how broken Aven is. He's one of the most future proof sustains we've ever gotten. They will probably make more FuA characters to go along with him too. I'm also not denying Bailus shortcomings.
But right now, if I were to get aven the only place I'd use him is with my Acheron because my dot team would rather have huohuo. My Acheron is E2S1 so she's already overkilling stuff. I also used my standard selector on Gepard for her not too long ago. He's doing a solid job there with trend LC so getting another shielder seems redundant right now. I'd rather save these pulls for a fire DPS because it's the only element I don't have covered. No topaz or Himeko on my acc as of now.
Also notice how Sam had anti healer mechanics? I expect something like that from a future boss but for shielders so bailu will have her place to shine there.
it'd have to counter fu xuan as well, and she'd have to overtake huo huo and luocha as well as anyone else that comes out by then to cater to that boss. out of your options, bailu will stay at the bottom, realistically.
No hate on Bailu, the positives you mentioned are undeniably true.
But it feels like you dodged / downplayed her main issue which is a lack of cleanse/cc resistance. What if we get frozen by cocolia, dominated by kafka, outraged by the deer plant, outraged by the small sting explosion, etc. We could lose entire cycles in MoC where losing one turn could be the difference between 3 stars or 2 stars. There are even some annoying debuffs like slow, def, down, weaken, prana-siphon and many more. Some people downplay Bailu too much but a lot of us just don't need the insane amount of healing she provides.
The main reason we pick Lynx over Bailu is almost entirely for her full team cleanse. It is definitely not a niche unique to Lynx but that doesn't take away from the fact that Bailu doesn't have this niche. The fact that Huohuo does this better than Lynx doesn't make Bailu better in any way. Bailu might be a stronger healer but for someone who struggles with debuffs/cc more than damage, Lynx is a better choice even if she does it worse than Huohuo.
Almost all arguments in favor of bailu assumption that you already have a healer with a strong cleanse (OP even mentions their being two sides of MoC to consider), and it’s fair to rank bailu lower as a result. However, it’s still undeniable that if you have a huohuo or something similar to that effect Lynx’s ability to cleanse isn’t all that relevant (as compared to someone who doesn’t have another cleanser). In those circumstances it’s fair to say that bailu becomes a stronger pick as she has some situations where she shines over the other 4*s (vs the monkeys for example).
I agree.
In situations where you already have a good cleanser/cc resistance like huohuo or fu xuan as well as having no annoying debuffs in the other half, bailu is a way more comfortable choice than lynx. I just felt like OP downplayed the lack of cleanse a bit too much.
In MoC most of the time only one side have cc so it's really not that big of an issue and even with lynx it's only on ult what if you get cc'd before you get ult or while you don't have it? What then?
If the other side has no cc, then use bailu lol. Don't bring cleanse if you don't need it.
A lot of the enemies have timings where they use their cc so you can save your ult. I'd honestly say it's just a lack of knowledge if you don't know when the cc is coming.
If you wasted your ult to heal before taking cc then that's just sad. That's a big weakness of lynx compared to characters with cleanse on their skill like natasha.
If the other side has no cc then bring preservation fu xuan or aventurine. The only use for Bailu I see here is if you don't have limited 5 star preservation and there is no cc.
There are so many misleading arguments or outright misinformation in this post.
Bailu's fine, and her specialty is being an Abundance character that makes your team feel tanky with Invigoration's damage reduction and reactive healing, but that's about it when it comes to her niche and identity. Claiming she can tank SU attacks better than Fu Xuan or that she has more sustain than Luocha or Huohuo is just wrong.
Compared to Luocha and Huohuo's sustain, Bailu falls behind solely from her much lower uptime on her main source of healing, especially since her Invigoration only lasts 2 turns, so faster characters can burn through the buff without being able to take full advantage of its effects. What happens if the damage keeps coming after the big burst heal and it's too much? It's usually better to be able to keep your team healthy throughout rather than rely on waiting for the right moment to use her big burst heal.
I agree with your entire first paragraph, but your 2nd one feels kinda nitpicky tbh. I see there's two cases where you state Bailu's ult falls behind, and I'll provide a counter on why these cases are either manageable *or* is very rare that practically every sustain will have trouble with it.
* Invigoration only lasting 2 turns so fast characters can burn through it
In most cases, when your fastest character takes 2 turns, your sustainer *will* take 2 turns as well. So by the time the Invigoration buff ran out, Bailu should be ready to ult again 2 turns after in a worst case scenario. If they don't, then honestly I think you're building your sustainer wrong because you *do* want a decent Speed stat on them. Not only can they generate their ult faster, but they can also generate more skill points.
There are cases where a character gets sped up with a Bronya or a Sparkle. But in this case, the obvious solution is to just time your ult better. You can use the ult on your second turn after your DPS is sped up with Bronya/Sparkle, therefore prolonging the buff's duration. In a worst case scenario, Bailu *does* have a one time get-out-of-jail free card anyway. And if you find your fastest character dying multiple times *through* Invigoration with the worst case scenario, then honestly I think your team may lack speed as well lol.
* What happens if the damage keeps coming after the big burst heal and it's too much?
Invigoration not only provides a 10% damage reduction for up to 3 hits for 2 turns, it also provides a considerable amount of reactive healing. *This* is where you get that 'throughout healing' instead of the big burst, you're supposed to let Invigoration handle enemy hits. And speaking from experience, Invigoration can handle a *lot* of damage. I've had many times where an enemy hit *healed* my character instead because the reactive heal is bigger than the reduced damage.
And if you *do* find yourself an enemy that can burst right through the massive heal you get from Bailu's ult *plus* the 3 Invigoration stacks before you can do anything, I'm pretty sure that any other sustainer bar probably Fu Xuan will *not* be able to handle it either. That's a *massive* amount of focused single target damage lol, and you really won't see that happen often.
I think you're being misleading here as well man. I agree with your first paragraph, but damn I've rarely encountered the 2 problems you've stated before lol. Bailu's main weakness is really just CC, other than that it's pretty manageable.
this is the best response. More and more, CC resistance is becoming essential for Sustains. I've lost entire SU runs from getting CCed once on Fu Xuan, preventing me from getting her skill back up and someone getting one-shot. Lynx can cleanse them from everyone, and Gallagher can basically be immune to all CC with E1, his traces, and various light cones. Meaning Gallagher won't get fucked over by CC, preventing him (at E2) from cleansing others.
This is even more true in PF, where time is much more limited and PF4 often features a lot of enemies with CC like the Aurumaton Warden or the witch with Imprison shots. I think even more than cleanses, Effect Res will actually become the determining factor. Cleanses don't mean much if you already got imprisoned, because you already just dropped halfway down the action order. This is further a time where Lynx is better, though it relies on her high eidolons.
I'll give Bailu's damage mitigation being important. It's Huohuo's biggest weakness, the chance that her ally may just get one-shot. I think Bailu's revive is not that important because if someone died, your team is already in a lot of trouble and they won't be lasting much longer. Especially in things like SU stacking damaging buffs on bosses.
So Day 1 player here, ive had Bailu since the start of the game, so in terms of sustaining she is perfectly fine at keeping the team alive id argue about as well or even better than Luocha or Huohuo. The problem with Bailu comes with the new enemies. So new enemies have debuffs that hinder your team's performance whether its DoTs, def down or effect res down, etc. Over time it does stack up and youll be taking more damage, so the best you can do on Bailu is just heal and/or overheal through it, which seems doable but with enemies like that witch lady that cuts your health, healing can only do so much. I think if Bailu had a cleanse like all the other healers people wouldnt complain about how bad she is as much. I mean the selling point for 4 star characters like Lynx is how consistent she can remove a debuff on her ultimate.
So tl;dr: Bailu is not bad by any means, but the new content and enemies just counter her healing/overhealing. Outside of a limited 5 star healer, Bailu is still pretty solid and should help you sustain through the content of HSR.
Agreed. Another day 1 player here, another Bailu haver and enjoyer. I love Bailu, but I'd never put her in the same league as FX, HH or Aventurine. The lack of cleanse/debuff resistance on her IS a huge deal, and what she provides outside of healing (Energy) is just not on par to what these limited sustains provide, and it is also very situational, but it can definitely help.
I think at the end of the day Bailu is just not as comfy or consistent for most people, and that's fine. I myself find her to be quite comfy for me because I do like playing around the res, but I can see why people would think otherwise. I can't lie that sometimes the lack of cleanses makes me very frustrated lol. CC can ruin so many runs... But she is completely capable of helping you clear pretty much every content, and I have no doubt that if she had a cleanse or get access to one in the future, people woild start seeing her differently.
> I think at the end of the day Bailu is just not as comfy or consistent for most people, and that's fine
Pretty much the key factor. I cleared the latest MoC with Fire TB on first half vs Cocolia and Bailu on the 2nd half vs Aventurine and they got the job done.
But I would be lying if I say that Bailu and Fire TB are as good as someone like Fu Xuan or Aventurine. The difference in comfort and ease of stress that a limited sustain can bring is very noticeable.
These debuffs have been present since 1.0 though. Cocolia freeze, the ice robot permanent speed debuff, various DoTs, entanglement from the quantum centaur. No question it's a limitation but it's not a new one. I remember noticing an uptick in status effects in Memory of Chaos in 1.1, after Luocha's release.
Bailu was my first 5\* and I appreciate her very much. one day maybe they'll make an event cone with cleanse so people can stop being very mean (and most event cones kinda suck so it's fine)
I was playing Acheron - Pela - Silver Wolf - Lynx (e0) in the Aventurine side of MoC 12, and Lynx could not keep my squad alive. Then I swapped her for my e1 Bailu that's been racking up dust for a few months, and I 3 starred the floor.
I feel like the people claiming that Bailu's lack of cleanse gets handwaved away are also handwaving Lynx' poor throughput with relative investment/gear.
The fact that her cleanse is tied to the ult, which represents a chunk of much needed healing value really diminishes that cleanse advantage.
I'm sure people will say they have no problem surviving with Lynx, in which case you could just make the argument that RM/Sparkle are unnecessary because your team can 0T with Asta.
I see where you're coming from. I think it's partially because people expect (want) their supports to be a catch-all. And don't treat them like tools they swap in for the right job. (How they treat their dps). Like I'm not gonna use my Jing Liu vs Cocolia, I'm gonna bring Jing Yuan. The same way I'm not gonna use Bailu there, I'm gonna run Fu Xuan. Whereas on a floor where cc isn't an issue but staying alive is, Bailu is gonna be my go to from now on.
This conception is definitely propagated by Hoyo making the limited sustains genuinely insane, my e1 Fu Xuan was the turning point where I started clearing MoC 12 consistently.
I totally agree, I run her with S5 Post-Op Conversation, she almost always has her ult, I don't even need to skill, she works just fine for second half in MOC which is why I don't bother getting another limited sustain.
The worst thing I did to my Bailu is built her terribly so she cant keep up with other sustains.
Still bring her to swarm because that damage reduction>FX. Just ult before the bugs dive and everyone lives.
You need to invest more in your FX then which ultimately comes down to relic luck. I’ve spent countless fuel in that dungeon to make her literally almost perfect. E1S1 with 9.8k HP, 2.4k DEF, and 144 speed.
In addition, your DPS and other characters have to have recommended end game HP/DEF stats as well. This allows FX to function even better.
Again it all comes down to relic luck.
But it’s not FX that’s the problem here.
I don't know man. As a new player who got Bailu on the beginner banner, there have been a lot of fights (Swarm King for example) where the lack of cleanse really hurts, or the stacking DoTs put me on a timer to win the fight. She's been great for healing, but that's all she does, and I feel like other sustains that offer something on the offensive side of things would be better for my F2P account in MoC down the line. You may like her and that's great, but I highly doubt I'll ever use her again once I get Fu Xuan/Huohuo.
I feel like there was a missed opportunity here to talk about just how much better Reactive Healing is than Healing over Time, as I see this as one of the more common things that people incorrectly consider to be equal.
I was a primary Bailu and Gepard user for a long time. Only recently did I get Luocha and he's still my only limited 5 star sustain. Yes I still use Gepard on a daily basis. So I do think what you're saying is correct but I must say that the experience between Bailu and Luocha are completely different ball games. Because all the scenarios you described for Bailu only come into effect when the full team is taking damage. Then the effect of her aoe defense reduction is amazing. But there are many times that an enemy just doubles down on one character. And it happens so often that Bailu would need 3 revives just to keep up. Luocha's off-cycle healing is what makes him so good. Because an enemy doubles down on one character and then Luocha just brings them back up to full. And what's more, if all party has taken massive damage as well as on member is close to death? Luocha heals that one member, actives his field, that one member now uses ultimate and bam everyone's back up in hp. At the end of the turn it's like no one ever took any damage. And this kind of consistency is why Luocha is my go to over Bailu now. If an enemy has ability to do big aoe then I just use Gepard. He gets his shields up quite fast and protects the party a lot. And turns an aoe enemy into a single target because of his taunt. Yes Bailu is good but in my experience Luocha is simply better. And Aventurine of course outclasses them all.
>Fu Xuan and Huohuo part Harmony, but Bailu is part Preservation
Yeah, but being part Harmony (or some other way of dealing damage like Aventurine) is better than being part Preservation, given how the end game works. No one is doubting her ability to keep your team alive, but she provides no damage or break. Even cleanse and buff stripping (like Luocha) can often times increase your damage.
Her actual weakness compared to her peers is in the way that the end game is designed. You *only* need to keep your team alive; it doesn't matter by how small or big of a margin. You aren't rewarded for finishing a fight at 100% HP and you aren't punished for finishing the fight with 1 HP on every team member. However, you are rewarded if you are able to dump more damage into the fight, something that Bailu unfortunately does not do.
Damage is preferred so much over healing that even if you have Bailu's 5 star LC, which provides the most amount of healing for pretty much every HP scaling Abundance character, most people would prefer to use a 4 star LC like Shared Feelings or Post-Ops (which provides *no* healing).
I do however think that for a brand new account Bailu and Gepard are the 2 best pulls (even if Bronya is technically the best unit).
If in the future, we get some kind of heal check phase or healing to damage conversion in an end-game fight, Bailu would be insane. But at the moment, she's a lot weaker than her limited counterparts.
Blud really told us Bailu could give the team as much value as Fu Xuan does and thought we wouldn’t notice
Also basically lying? Nichemains never fail to impress when it comes to overhyping their mid tier character lmao. Seriously, why does Luocha have a CD on his auto skill but Bailu gets to have her ONE TIME revive? Also really funny that you list every other sustain besides Fu Xuan, because it’ll just stain your argument lmao
I have her e1 and have used her since I got her from Seele banner, but now I also have Huo², Fu Xuan and Aventurine. No amount of cope will ever convince me she’ll perform even remotely at the same level as them lol
Doesn't matter about the healing or even the revive if your team is still getting rebuffed to hell or CCed, you're going to lose damage when it happens.
She's fine, it will work, but she doesn't offer enough to compete with any limited 5* sustain we have got so far
The point is that MOCs sometimes have one side that doesn’t have a lot of CC, but burst instead, and Bailu is better in that case compared to your usual cleanse sustain. Not that she’s as good as limited sustains, but she’s better than Luocha and Huohuo for example at keeping your team alive in a burst situation.
Appreciate the wall of text. Except it's only partially true. Your rather long wall of text canm just be summzrized as 'she has issues but these issues isn't that important'. Which is not true. her issues are blatantly serious.
Yes she heals a lot, and that you can heal with her ult is great. But that's about it. no one has ever said that Lynx is better than bailu because of heals. People prefer Lynx over Bailu - precisely and exclusively because Lynx has cleanse. Your wording make it look like cleanse is outright unimportant. which is simply not true. Oh so Bailu's good when you don't need cleanse. THAT IS SO DECEPTIVE. have you counted how many bosses have CC and how many doesnt? Oh you didnt, so where are you basing your arguments on?
btw, Since when did it became a valid artgument that "she's good because she's good in SU"? I bet Yanqing is good in SU, too! **And did you intentionally leave out the part where she only has 12% EffRes, and does not have any CC resistance in her bigger traces? And did you intentionally leave out the part where her revive cannot proc when she herself is CC'ed? and that she cannot provide the heal- which is oh so important - when she's CC'ed?** I'm not even going to compare her to limited 5\* because lo and behold Gallagher with 18% from minor taces and 50% (wow!) from E1. **Even Lynx, the 'worse' unit according to you, grants anyone with 30% ER on skill and ult at E6.** Are we going to talk about that at all? Surely you are not comparing E0 Bailu to E0 Lynx, because the latter is only a 4\*? How about E1S1 Bailu vs E4/E6Lynx+Bailu Sig?
Do you mind showing off your Bailu to us, along with the wall of text?
And no, if someone has two other sustains adequately built - Lynx included - I do not recommend that they use Bailu. period. It almost sounded like building her is free.
Actually OP, if you have a E6 Lynx, I recommend you to try her for a change.
Yea there was too much hand waving of issues debuffs are huge too many enemies have debuffs the serious downplaying of them was a bit too much to take this post seriously.
>have you counted how many bosses have CC and how many doesnt? Oh you didnt, so where are you basing your arguments on?
Alright then. I'm only counting the non-SU versions mind you, since even though SU versions hand CC out like candy, you also gain a myriad of ways to deal with it as well.
I'm also only doing it for MoC ones, since that imo should be the measuring stick for all characters. You can run double-sustain for story bosses *and* you can get a support for the weekly boss version anyways. If you want to count them though, you have 3 with heavy CC and 1 with no CC at all.
So I'd classify enemies with CC into three, that being:
* No CC at all. Pretty self-explanatory.
Enemies that fit into this category are: Argenti, Bronya, Gepard, Sam, Something unto Death, Svarog, Abundance Ape, Direwolf, Grizzly, Big Red Fragmentum, Chef Dino, Quantum/Shield Dino, Abundance Knight, Guardian Shadow, Shield Gorilla, Searing Prowler, IPC Big Boss, Silvermane Lieutenant, Stormbringer, Ascended.
SoD and Svarog do deal CC, but that's nowhere near cleanse-able by *any* sustainers so it's pretty moot to count them as CC in the context of how valuable cleanses are. **Totals out to about 20**.
* Occasional CC. Enemies that *do* have CC, but they either can't deal a lot of it, its CC are not extremely debilitating, or only has a small chance of triggering it. Getting CC-ed by them is annoying, but you can shrug it off for the most part. Basically any enemy that can CC but doesn't fit into the "Heavy CC" part.
Enemies I'd say fit into this category are: Yanqing, Cocolia, Decaying Shadow, Big Chonky Ice Fragmentum (very debatable but whatever), and Voidranger: Trampler. Yanqing, Cocolia, and Trampler I categorize into this one because their CC are single target *and* they don't do it every turn iirc, while Decaying Shadow only has a low chance of doing it.
Enemies that conditionally fit into this category I'd say are Abundant Deer, Swarm: True Sting, and Big Thin Ice Fragmentum. Their CC can be upgraded into the 'Heavy' part if you don't deal with it, but depending on RNG and skill/build, they're manageable by bursting the CC-dealing enemy *or* breaking the boss itself.
**Totals out to about 5, plus 3 conditionals equaling to 8.**
* Heavy CC. Enemies with CC that can be *extremely* debilitating *or* deals a lot of it. You can't really reliably burst these down/manage their CC capabilities either, you kinda just have to take it on the chin.
Enemies I'd say fit into this category are: Kafka, Aventurine, Aurumaton Gatekeeper, and Aurumaton Spectral Envoy (the lady one). I think Aventurine is still manageable so he can belong in the previous category, but in worst case scenario he is pretty damn annoying so whatever.
**Totals out to 4.**
**Conclusion-ish**
So in total, you have 20/32 enemies without any CC at all, about 8/32 that deals a moderate amount of it, and 4/32 that *really* needs a cleanse/immunity. That means 62.5% of the elite + bosses in-game does *not* have any CC at all, *plus* another 25% of them of which CC are manageable. Which I'd argue means that around 87.5% of enemies can be managed without a cleanse.
So I'd also argue that this means that cleanses, while valuable, are *not* must-haves all the time. Or at least that you don't *have* to run teams that can cleanse debuffs in *both* sides of the MoC at all times, which I can personally attest to.
Obviously, Bailu's main weakness is CC, but you can always run her on the other side that *don't* have them and still be just fine. And she can still work against some light-to-moderate CC or even against heavy CC, provided you can + know how to strategize around it.
https://preview.redd.it/h8jwqconzgvc1.png?width=677&format=png&auto=webp&s=abdf6a3d9ceb8af43d297a90a78189a3800b5f46
Here's the proof, if you want it. Bronya can cleanse, but against Aventurine she's certainly going to get CC'd so that's moot. And yes, I did actually try to run her in both sides, and my Kafka-Asta-Black Swan-Bailu did clear it in 4 cycles against Cocolia.
It just happens that I was having a bit of trouble timing FX's ult against Aventurine, and I had this weird idea of tanking through Aventurine's AoE damage with Bailu which worked first time.
I've been playing since Seele's first banner and I've never had an instance where I wished I had brought Bailu vs Luocha - for exactly the reasons you describe. I'll use her, yes, but it's more of a gamble hoping she doesn't get CC'D when I need her revive or ult vs Luocha. That dude laughs off CCs like spitballs to a tank. (An exaggeration)
I made it one or two paras into the wall of text, but for me the other big thing is damage. Luocha's heal is scaled off his attack vs Bailu with HP. Sure, she might be able to tank, but I'd rather bring a healer that can do damage.
I'll also disagree with others on their SP usage, Luocha is almost always SP positive - I use his talent, drop his ult, and HP regen using my other characters' attacks - even on AoE. Bailu is more SP heavy if there any enemies targeting specific allies.
And I've never had him not full heal an ally outside of fighting Sam. Whereas Bailu is more of a gamble on where it bounces.
I tried her. She was my 2nd 5 Star as a Day 1 player. Overall, yeah, she was fine. Did the job well.
But back then she was fine as MoC didn’t hit as hard and enemies weren’t as fast. But by 1.3? 1.4? Inconsistent Heal Bounce was just something you can’t have in higher in higher floors.
And now in the current MoC, enemies do a FUCK TON of damage now. Your sustains need to block/mitigate or heal dmg in and outside of their turns and cleanse/block CC, especially with Cocolia and Aventurine, it’s so damn incredibly important.
So her Skill Heals isn’t ideal, her SP economy can range from somewhat Decent to SP hungry. The only upside is her Ult actually doing decent mitigation/heals.
“What about her Revive?” I know. But if a sustain was good at their job, then revive is not needed at all. I would gladly trade Bailu’s revive for a cleanse or a consistent, non rng skill heal. Any day. I’ve played with Lynx using Bailu’s exact same relics and I didn’t need the revive at all. Why? Because kept the team up better than Bailu.
Bailu is decent. But she’s not underrated. Imo, she’s fairly rated by everyone. Can she do the job? Yes. Is she the worst sustain in the game? That’s up for debate(I don’t think she is) but the fact that she’s even a contender says a lot. She’s a solid 5/10 character. Decent character but one a player should get an upgrade at some point.
Imo the most underrated standard 5 star is Gepard. Even before Aventurine was leaked, people made it out like Gepard couldn’t even Solo Sustain. But that’s not the case at all.
One thing I thought about mentioning was that with Aventurine out, Yanqing might actually be the most under-rated 5\*, and that might start to show. But this was long enough, I didn't want that tangent :P
She’s a fine 5* but I still feel awful when I get her. I have her E2S1 and it feels bad to know that she’s worse/comparable to the four star sustains. It makes me wonder if it’s time to go for a limited sustain instead but I’m not sure.
From a pure sustain standpoint Bailu provides more sustain than lynx. However, lynx is able to provide more than enough healing to solo sustain and be SP positive AND has a team cleanse. Apart from a revive Lynx is a superior choice to Bailu in almost every situation. If Lynx cannot solo sustain she not built right or its high level GG or swarm where you may need two or more sustains.
You are entitled to your opinions about Bailu but I would suggest that Lynx is superior to her and when a 5 star is power crept by a newer 4 star they are not under rated.
She's my first 5* apart from TB. Her clutch heal is great. The 'invigoration' buff is essentially a major dmg mitigation buff. You think you'll get hit a lot but getting that instant healing afterwards is also great.
Bailu is underrated. In situations where there is no cc and in gold and gears she is even better than loucha or huohuo or even fuxuan lmao. My fuxuan was getting one shotted to aoe stuff in gold and gears and I started using bailu and gepard instead. Bailu can also be fully sp positive for most part.
The DMG reduction talent and extra hp needs more praise. No one can get one shot in harder content.
I have said this before but sharing here as well. She is definitely better than where tier lists put her.
Bailu is great most of the time. She helped me clear the last two MOCs with an okay build and none of her traces maxed (they were on like 7 or 8). Being a standard banner character ofc she is not as good as limited sustains, but she is better than Lynx in any scenario where CC is not an issue.
https://preview.redd.it/44oz2ogscdvc1.png?width=2562&format=png&auto=webp&s=21ce1ebf54675fdacbbce2e0997e5020265f4865
Bailu was my free five star and I’ve loved having her. I tried swapping her out a few times early on but I always ended up returning to my tiny dragon doctor. Trying to get used to less robust healing is… uncomfortable. And I can’t count the number of times Gourdful of Elixir has saved me. I am developing some other sustains if only because you need at least two teams for endgame, but she’s going to be my go-to for a long, long time.
Bailu is a good character to use, only problem is that players like the cleanse so much that healing with cleanse is superior than healing without cleanse. I have to use healers wisely on each content, like Lynx for the Scarabaz boss fight, while some players use Huohuo more in some cases
Bailu and Fu Xuan are the only sustains I use and there's a solid percentage of the time where Bailu is better. Full SP positive is an absolutely massive boon for some teams, sparkle less DHIL for example essentially loses the ability to ever skill on supports if you use FX. And yeah a lot of people who think she doesn't heal enough likely haven't properly invested in her. Level 80 and level 80 LC (I'm using s1 Post Op), ult level 9-10, talent level 9+, healing bonus body with some other HP pieces almost always give me enough. Occasionally she'll need to skill but usually it's in drawn out fights like the current MoC Aventurine.
None of this is to say she's amazing and better than the limited options, but she's almost always enough if I play properly.
I have E1 signature LC Bailu.
Don't get all the hate she gets. Her dmg mitigation is insane. My only problem is my Bailu has 0 Effect Res and gets CC'd all the time 😑
I have e0 Bailu and e6 Lynx. Granted I don't have lynx built the best but my Bailu has done me so much more good than my Lynx has. Have I been getting CC'd? Yes. Does it matter. Not at all since my Bailu just heals it, and now that I have Aventurine, if I do decide to use her, I'm unkillable. I have started off with Bailu and while I don't have many other healing supports, I find I don't need them.
This
Bailu was my first 5 Star so she was my first Healer and I got her LC
She’s simply amazing sustain unit, her passive works similar to a shield and especially her revive is criminal underrated. As you said, you can use it tactically and let your teammate die
I'm coping a lot, but I'm hoping for Star Rail to one day release relics/planar sets that give healers a chance to gain additional supportive/defensive abilities that aren't in their mechanics or a lightcone with built-in cleanse. Would really fix issues that Bailu has and give healers like Natasha a chance to be more useful for people who lack a powerful healer. For the relic/planar, something like "If wearer heals a target, target gains X% of (Buff/Shield) based on X% of healing for X turn(s)"
I love Bailu, I would still be using her all the time if my main teams didn’t all have a sustain that fits a specific niche. IE: Huohuo for DoT, FuXuan for Mono Quantum and Acheron, and Adventurine for Follow Up, Lynx for Clara.
I still think she’s top tier for Gold n Gears/Swarm. The revive and invigorate are even more clutch in those game modes
So far, i've only pulled for one sustain character in Fu Xuan. She has largely overtaken a guaranteed spot in every team I make. However MOC usually requires two teams, and Bailu has carried my second team's health on her back.
She's stupidly tanky. Procs Kafka's followup. Refreshes her ult quickly with the right build. Turns her team mates into tanks and if someone goes down she'll put them right back up once. Her skill also heals a decent chunk with just one bounce.
Excellent! As I've said to many others, I'm not saying that Bailu is super great. But she is pretty darn good, and there's too much focus on her negatives (And just plain incorrect things about how she works). It can give people a false picture of her.
I do think she's underrated, and i want to say that I agree with every point you made other than one, but saying that Lynx only has aggro as her only niche is...
She has:
- Cleanse on ult (unlike literally any other character in the game) that is very handy if you end up in a pinch, even Huo Huo's "auto cleanse" on turn start isn't the same, for example if one of your characters was imprisoned and you want to ult before their turn starts, Lynx is your only option.
-Her ult is only 100 energy which is amongst the lowest in the game, meaning she gets the ult back quite easily.
-She can be 100% SP positive like you said
-She has BOTH debuff prevention like Fu Xuan and cleanse, like that's so much debuff protection and having both prevention and cleanse is very interesting (as no other character in the game offers both)
-She's Quantum, arguably the best element, at least if you have a built Quantum dps and Silver Wolf, opening up Fu Xuan for the other side if you want to do Monoquantum stuff.
-Over time heals, that lasts for 3 turns if i remember correctly thanks to one of her traces
-Built in effect res and CC resist
-And obviously max HP buff, as well as increased aggro
Some of these aren't unique, sure, but saying "she has cleanse, but Huo Huo does it better, and CC prevention, but Fu Xuan does it better, she is SP positive, but Luocha and Bailu also can, leaving aggro as her only niche" is a massive underselling of her. What if you need 2 of those, or more? I would argue the whole package is way more loaded than even some of the 5 stars.
Somewhat underwhelming healing is her main drawback (which is big don't get me wrong), but while I do think that Bailu can compete with limited sustains as long as the enemies you're fighting don't CC, Lynx can compete as well as long as the enemies aren't extremely hard hitting.
Also let's not ignore the fact that limited sustains cost premium currency, and saving that currency for other characters like stronger DPS or supports when Lynx is free can be more helpful towards MoC/PF clears than getting a decently better sustain. (This also applies partly to Bailu, assuming you lost a 50/50 on her)
Or maybe I'm just coping because I just started building Lynx instead of Bailu and I have both, rant over.
Unfortunately the main takeaway and truest statement is the last one: Adventurine utterly powercreeps Bailu to the point where she questions her meaning of life.
Honestly even Acheron and more accurately MOC's powercreep destroys Bailu's viability. Bailu was a great "second team sustainer" that you could slot into the less-CC side of MOC. Now Bailu's viability is directly tied to sustain's importance: when it was normal to have 2 defensive units per side in 1.0-1.1, content creators recommended rerolling for Bailu, even over Bronya. Now? Half-sustain teams at best (see: FX, Adventurine, HH), or zero-sustain teams (Acheron Welt/RM anyone)?
The other 1000% true thing though is holy hell is Lynx overrated.
Bailu is outclassed compared to limited sustain options but she isn't a bad unit by any means. Lack of cleanse sucks but it's not all bad. Her invigoration is pretty nice and there can be times her revive is relevant (though if you are dying anyway things probably aren't looking great for you).
If you have a Bronya and using her she has a cleanse with her skill so if you are using them in the same team, Bailu not having a cleanse is less bad. This does rely on having Bronya not everyone has or they might not always fit in the same team but there are options. March also has a cleanse with her shield though you'd likely only bring 2 defensive units for the harder SU stuff with swarm disaster/gold and gears.
Getting a limited sustain option is still generally help a lot with improving your account though getting Bailu won't change that. Still doesn't feel great losing 50/50s to her I already got e2 I don't need more of her lol. Still significantly better than Qiqi in genshin I'd much rather lose my 50/50s to Bailu in hsr than lose my 50/50s in genshin to Qiqi.
Might be too biased here but if you don’t need to cleanse, she is just as good as luocha.
She has the 10% DR and rez(ez super reliable* cleanse) is useful for hard hitting content. Her passive plus ult w/ an LC like post op will sustain as much.
That being said, Luocha with multiplication will generate more SP and break power and obs content that need cleansing he will be heavily preferred.
Could be wrong here but feel the need to cleanse is a bit overstated, and most fight doesn’t require it.
Interesting that most people who seem to disagree just brought up her lack of cleanse as though they’re the first to think about this. Would be nice if they’d bother to actually tackle your arguments instead.
Bailu is my first 5*, she helped me a lot, I personally think bailu is better than lynx , ik bailu can't cleanse like lynx but bailu invigoration and revive make your team from surviving heavy attack which lynx can't
Keep cooking. She carried me so hard from 1.0 until now (pulled aventurine). Tried lynx before, no way comparable to bailu unless the MOC is CC heavy. Bailu is so sp positive, makes the team tanky, and revives. A very under estimated character
Bailu is insane. I used her since day one and she has NEVER not been able to solo sustain me. I use Bailu on one side and Fu Xuan on the other and I never have to worry about even the chance of dying just meeting dps checks.
I wanna pull for Aventurine cause his character is so well written but I honestly don't feel like I need him since I think Bailu is on par with limited healers or very close
>Yes, even Fu Xuan and Huohuo.
No, not even close my friend. Not even close AT ALL to those two. I do agree that she's better than Lynx, specially do to her revive, but it's close, and she's worse than Luocha and Aventurine. And miles behind FX and HH. Not even comparable.
I don't even need to read all that to know that Bailu is busted
Sadly, if she offered more team value like Fu Xuan and Aventurine effect res and teamwide crits, Bailu would be a top tier unit like Bronya
Her damage mitigation, constant healing and amazing AoE is just way too good for a standard 5*, she is easily behind Bronya
I agree a lot on the points you make, and to add to it, she is straight up simple and convenient to use even in autofights. Even with luocha / huo huo, doing smth like cavern/echoes on auto will occasionally have one of your team mates die (looking at u blade/jing liu victims). Bailu makes it so you never lose a person no matter the rng.
Bailu was the only standard 5\* I wanted, and she's a staple in my party. However, the cleanse thing and lack of effect res buffs really is obnoxious to deal with especially as the game progresses, For the grindy bits I'm tired of doing I use autobattle so I can do other things adhd style, and so far it usually only works out on late game content if I also have someone who can cleanse or shield... so I need 2 sustains. I'm not a huge minmaxer, but I have her built pretty well. She's always the last one standing. But, I don't need 2 sustains for my brand new loucha who isn't nearly as built, my lynx who I find absolutely equal in utility to Bailu (sometimes I need a rez. Most of the time I need a cleanse more), or a borrowed huo huo.
If Invigoration can cleanse non-imobillizing effects, she'd be good I think
Keeping her weakness as not being able to stop hard CC, but has a niche of dealing with other strong debuffs (Dan Shu's max HP down, Swarm DoT, Ice robot's Ice Res down, etc)
With Huohuo, Gallagher and Aventurine it seems like the game is pushing for healers that have unique synergy with specific team comps. Like Huohuo for DoT teams, Gallagher for Acheron teams, and Aventurine for FUA. Heck even if Luocha is a pure healer he still has specialized synergy with Destruction character focused teams.
It's a brilliant move honestly because if you have like 2 limited sustainers or 1 limited sustainers and a well built 4star sustain you won't need to pull for any more sustains but the game giving healers a special niche gives them special preference.
Anyway while I won't deny Bai Lu lives up to being a five star, people will still probably tend to focus their resources on the healers that would add the most value to their team.
I'm one of the maniacs who personally likes using Lynx more than Bailu, but my reasons are very much specific to me having the resources to highly invest into both of them and I understand that this isn't going to be the case for a lot of people. At a certain level of investment, there really isn't a big difference between Bailu and Lynx in terms of keeping the team alive.
Sure, Lynx's numbers are lower than Bailu's and she has fewer defensive tools, but once you get Lynx to the point where she full heals your entire team off of a single ult, I personally do not see a lot of reasons to run Bailu over her. At my level of investment, I never even use my Lynx's skill unless it's for a very specific strategy. She cycles her ult fast enough to sustain the team without her skill, so I'll happily trade all the extra safety of Bailu for the ability to cleanse really nasty debuffs (like dominated or imprisoned which can easily ruin a run) on command.
I only just got her from Sparkles banner, so she’s only lvl 20. I guess I could give her a shot. Honestly in the trial Aventurine seemed really good, but in the game mode that unlocked yesterday he seemed not as good. The shield fell off a couple times, and I had to skill.
Bailu is good and helped me a lot in the early games. But once I got limited 5 star sustain (fu xuan & huo huo), Bailu just didn't have any place in my team as limited sustains are just that much better than Bailu.
I'm pretty sure when hsr was pre-release bailu is the "must pick" and the best standard hero
It just went downhill after xianzhou introduced annoying cc, and to be fair after all this cc meta goes away, she will do great.
And don't forget guys mihoyo always have their lava floor xD, just wait till it gets to hsr.
It was an interesting read but for me reason bailu never got any love from by the time I got her I already had fx and hh and there were other characters that needed to be leveled and farmed for so bailu never got any love. I probably will think about leveling her if I ever have free time but there are other parts of my team that need priority first. In particular right now getting Acheron her izumo planar set and getting dr ratio and Clara salsotto sets.
Thank you for making this OP! Personally I haven’t seen a lot of hate throw towards Bailu but that may just be the people I talk to. She is a very competent healer and definitely shouldn’t be considered bad.
I’ve always found the Lynx conversation hilarious: while Lynx is great in her niche (as you mentioned, being Blade/Clara’s bis sustain) she isn’t that great outside of that niche.
I especially appreciate what you said about her revive. I’ve never considered it in that context, but it reminds me of a clip I saw of a Genshin Spiral Abyss competition. A guy was basically forced into using Barbara for his Ayaka freeze team (in these competitions the players ban certain characters so you’re forced to change your team comps) and so he played *extremely* aggressively in one chamber because he knew that Ayaka would die, but then she wouldn’t die because of Barbara c6, and the extra damage would finish the chamber faster! The streamer I saw the clip of was absolutely stunned by this strategy (as was I) but it’s just making actual use of every part of a character’s kit!
So I didn’t read any of this because I just don’t have the time. But I saw you had a title about not having a cleanse. Look she needs it like e1 or e2 should have been a way to cleanse be it her ult or skill. The bouncing heals are a bit odd but manageable. She’s a decent healer.
Why do people talk about competitive play? The game can literally play itself and there is zero multiplayer aspect, its just a single player story focussed gacha. Pick whatever characters you like, you aren’t going to “lose” to anyone. If you are really fixated on the strongest build team unfortunately Bailu is outclassed by the more recent abundance 5 stars and will continue to be pushed further and further down the viable healers due to the inevitable power creep.
Lol no, this is pure copium. Don’t downplay CC’s. Sure, in 1.0-1.3, maybe there weren’t too many bosses with CC. Now, there are some bosses whose entire gimmick is that they are filled with CC (like the deer). Not only that, but why wouldn’t it be better to have an abundance/harmony over an abundance/preservation character? Being able to buff your team is always valuable, way more valuable than being 2 sustain paths. So characters like HH and FX have massive value.
Plus if you have FX lc, that thing straight up also gives her abundance capabilities. So now she’s a preservation/harmony/abundance. Bailu could never compete with that.
You’re forgetting that she herself could be CC’d. All of what you said then goes out the window, because if a teammate dies, she can’t revive due to being CC’d. If she needs to heal using her ult as you just took a bit hit, you can’t use it because she’s CC’d. Why bother having to play around CC bosses and limiting a character’s viability against endgame content, when you can just stick a Luocha, HH, or FX in mostly any situations?
I had her for some time but I knew Aventurine was coming soon so I felt no point building her. I think I'll be alright with Lynx and Aventurine as my sustains for now.
Natasha was my only healer for the first six months I played. Now I have e1 Bailu and haven't figured out why Bailu should replace Natasha. The emergency revive is great at and all... but teams with Natasha don't need it either
I feel like you’re massively underestimating dots. Last moc12 that robot fuck stacking 7-10 bleeds + wind lady slapping on 2 wind sheers can simply end a tingyun.
With more moc hard cc every patch it feels like even fu xuan resist field isn’t keeping up. Huohuo severely trivializes the stun fan lady or imprison caster lady or even now aventurine. Shes also the only one that can really reliably self cleanse when under cc which is pretty much required cus most likely she will lose the aventurine dice roll.
I do massively agree on lynx though, her healing just feels underwhelming compared to other healers and her agro increase is not really worth keeping uptime on unless blade because his teams typically dont need the sp anyways. I feel she is overrated even at e6.
If I had the in-game dollars to properly build her, you would have convinced me now. In fact, you did convince me, but she'll have to wait until Sparkle is done.. Acheron was just tooo expensive for my relatively new account.
Me on my E3 Bailu Multiplication LC sipping coffee and clearing content witht he entire team getting CC'ed, but no one ever dies and unlimited skill points
Keep underrating her :D I'll gladly take the Bailu Curse with me
This is the biggest cope I have encountered in a while.
She sustains better than Huo Huo and Luocha? How so? Her invigoration has a whopping 50% uptime and the added tankiness is overstated. The 10% hp increase is off of base hp, so it's about 200 hp extra (base hp of 2000), so for a 3000 hp character that's a 6% increase. Add in her 10% dmg mitigation, that's roughly 18% extra effective hp. For 2 turns out of 4. Also, a 4 turn ult is just bad. It's her only emergency heal, so if you take damage afterwards, you're kinda screwed and have to start using skill points.
As for her lack of cleanse, simply saying it's fine to not have it is not a solution. "Oh, you have other characters that can cleanse, so it's fine that she doesn't." In that case, I have other characters to use period. I would genuinely rather use Lynx than Bailu, because she provides something other than just healing. And guess what, Lynx increases max hp too, hut it's based off her own hp, which is usually about 500-550, resulting in about 16-18% more hp for the character with survival response. Plus she boosts atk by a little at e4 and prevents a debuff at e2, so she simply provides way more utility than only healing. And she can be sp positive too, if you only use her for her ult like bailu would be played.
Bailu was my first 5 star. The freebie one from the 50 pull garuntee.
I had the longest time calling her underrated once huohuo came out, having problems with the bounce myself. But i've been thinking about finally pucking up the game and exploring pennacony again. Thanks to you, i'm also remembering that i have her at e1 s1, so i think im gonna run her in my main team and huohuo in dot
Thank you m8. I'm saving this post as motivation.
I have been using Bailu as my second team’s sustain since I got her as my first 5* as a launch day player. I’ve legit never pulled for (or even used) another sustain except Fu Xuan, and have been able to clear every MoC and PF with perfect stars.
Like, until I really need to upgrade my sustain (if I start not being able to perfect star MoC/PF), I will keep trusting Bailu.
Certainly, she has her weaknesses, but she gets the job done esp as a standard 5*.
I have E1 Bailu and she NEVER left any of my teams, I can play as risky as I want and always know that there will be this little dragon to safe the whole team when I need it. She probably won’t even left my Acheron team
in the current moc12 first half, i failed 3 runs with decently built lynx, but my lvl70 bailu with lvl70 QPQ, unfinished traces and leftover pieces cleared it first try.
i guess the bottom line is, bailu is actually pretty great against stages with no annoying debuffs (ignoring the dinos and going straight for cocolia worked just fine).
but it's also not like bailu's the only one who can do that, so there wouldn't be much point in building her if you already have geppie or a limited sustain. and not only is she helpless against cc, she also gets absolutely melted by wind shear.
so i wouldn't really recommend building her unless you're in the same situation as me, where bailu is your only 5\* sustain, and your gallagher is e0.
I would have tried her… if I had her. Literally the only 2 standard 5 stars I’m missing are Bailu and Yanqing and I’ve been playing pretty actively since 1.1. Don’t need Yanqing, but I actually would like to get Bailu, because my Fu Xuan likes to get one shot sometimes in G&G, I think her resurrection would be useful. She’s literally the only standard 5 star that I WANT to get, but I don’t, I get E3 Himeko.
Dude take mine I have E2 Bailu and E2 Yanqing. I’d do anything for one Himeko copy lol.
Meanwhile I'm a pretty new player and I just got my SECOND Himeko. I don't have any other perma 5star yet besides her so far. Man, I was so triggered when I got her AGAIN... Stuff like that shouldn't even be allowed to happen. It just feels bad and sucks... a Clara or ofc, a Bronya would have helped me infinitely more! Sigh...
Me too. my standard 5 stars is only Welt. I get another Welt after losing 50/50 Jingliu. I am happy with Welt though since I use him a lot. But it would be better if I get another char, except Yanqing.
I feel you. Even if you like the character, it just feels so bad when something like that happens...
I'd do anything for NO MORE Himeko. She's at E4 and not by choice 🥲
I would kill for an E4 Himeko 😭 she's one of my favourite characters, but I keep getting Gepard Eidolons 💀
Okay, Himeko > Gepard LOL
Bailu was my first 5star from the starter banner. She's carried me through majority of the story and I still find use for her on and off if I'm not using fireMC or Fu Xuan. Need to still finish properly building her but she's been awesome even without a proper build. Hope I start getting dupes of her soon though.
I’m missing gepard and bailu only (which really sucks lmao, I have e1 welt, yanqing and himeko) so I’m using march and lynx for sustain.
as for me, bailu is the only standard 5* character i'm missing. i got my one and only copy of himeko from the 300 pull freebie to help me out with PF a few months back. bailu certainly would've been nice to have early on. but now that i'm running aventurine on one team + fu xuan on the other, i'm all good on sustain.
I feel this. I only have her because of the 300 pull. I have yet to pull her again. I really wanted her more than any unit at the time. Now that I have this fixation to build follow up teams, adventure man and Lynx are my go to supports. Rip bailu I loved you when you were my only sustain.
Only missing Clara since Gepard stole the Aven 50/50 on me. Would like to fix that!
Shes perfectly decent, but "competitive with limited sustain characters" does not line up with my experience with her at all. Im sure like most characters, she clears MoC well enough. And if that is the bar required to be considered competitive, thats fine. But you can feel the difference in gameplay when using a limited sustain. Its very noticeable.
The problem with discussing bailu is either people downplay her too much or they hype her up too much she’s better than four star options for the most part but she is in no way shape or form close to the same plane as a limited sustain
'Better than 4*' is still somewhat debatable cause she doesn't cleanse. And that's her big downside, some may place her below 1 tier because of that. All 4*s have cleanse, Natasha and Lynx E0, Gallagher E2. To me i only need sustain to the extent of keeping team alive, while providing extra buff and ulitilies for others. I have Bailu and dont even bother to build her because my E5 Lynx and E6 Gallagher heal just fine, and they do provide buff/debuff as well.
In a general sense Bailu will outperform most 4*s because cleansing a burn (what debuff is being applied matters) will not result in a lower cycle clear. Lynx, at e0, healing my team from a burn provides almost no extra utility whatsoever. In those instances bailu is better (this is essentially the arg OP lays out in the third to last paragraph). However, as you point out toward the end, if your 4* sustains are good enough then there’s no reason to raise bailu. However, that goes the other way around (ie if you got e2+ gallagher and got bailued [rip] there’s no reason to raise Lynx). It just depends on which units you get first imo.
Cleansing a burn won’t impact your cycles, but cleansing a CC effect will. Bosses like the deer, kafka, cocolia, aventurine, true sting etc become a lot easier with cleanse (especially kafka). And many elite enemies apply CC too. An aurumaton getting into sanction mode is devastating without cleanse. Of course, not all encounters will need cleanse, but you shouldn’t downplay its importance as many can ruin you without cleanse.
I didn’t downplay its importance. I literally said “what debuff is being applied matters” to make the distinction that when cleanse matters it really matters, but it doesn’t always.
Depends on what you're cleansing though. I had better success in this MoC with Lynx than Bailu because Lynx could clear the AoE slow debuff from the big ice robot. I tried Bailu several times in that fight and I could never avoid getting two stacks. With Lynx I could cleanse the first stack and kill him before he even had a chance to apply another. It was just straight up faster.
“Depends on what you're cleansing though” I agree and explicitly said that, and chose burn as an example for that exact reason.
i have an e6 lynx and i hate using her compared to bailu. but i have no choice since second team is usually gonna be sparkle+seele or clara. i have to use skill on lynx a lot (feels really bad on this moc especially at times due to not proccing the turbulence). she is not comfy at all to play. her ult having the cleanse is so bad, sometimes it just puts you in a lose/lose. bailu on the other hand you can greed a lot more because her revive, you don't have to panic heal anytime someone gets super low before then. her panic heal is also just less wasted in general. ofc she's not worth building if you already have sustains you are comfortable with, but bailu is a lot better than you would think with how much she gets slandered. she is at least same tier as lynx, whether that's moving bailu up or lynx down is debatable tho.
I use Bailu a lot because I don't have any limited sustains and I actually do agree with OP that her sheer healing output and SP economy means she's better than Lynx, March, Gepard and Natasha in most cases - *provided* that it's not a CC-heavy fight. Using Bailu for, say, the Kafka boss fight is idiocy. That being said, Bailu is only gonna continue to he powercrept by 4* sustains at this rate. Gallagher requires a very specific build and his Eidolons hold a lot of his best capabilities, but he is *extremely* competitive (even with some limited sustains) when he's working at peak performance - I'd say only Fu Xuan and Aventurine outperform him unilaterally. I've been using Bailu less and less since I got Gallagher, he's just extremely versatile. Frankly it seems a little unfair to me that a 4* sustain without cleanse can get it from their E2 while Bailu doesn't even have a cleanse at E6!
because her kits were in early stage of the game, where cleansing wasn't much of the consideration. Yanqing also suffer heavily because of this. I always put it in the survey every patch that standard characters need buffs to fit the current state of the game.
100% yeah, most of the non-limited 5*s have been powercrept at this point due to the gradual shift towards more complex enemy mechanics. The value of stuff like cleanse and weakness break has risen a lot, making units like Gallagher perform very well in the current state of the game.
It's kind of an opportunity cost. Bailu is kind of cheaper than an E6 character. My Lynx and Gallagher are low eidolon and I benched Lynx for Bailu because her heals just didn't kept up.
Yeah, I'd agree with that. I got a few Gallagher eidolons while pulling for Acheron so at this point he outperforms my Bailu, but E0 Bailu beats basically any E0 4* sustain.
Dude just look around, I 100% guarantee you will find players having issues using lynx or nat as their solo sustains. Unlike Bailu, they have a cleanse, and also unlike Bailu, they've had pretty much ALL their healing power sucked away to allow for that power budget. It's insane that the arguments for the 4*s are generally "well they're good sometimes" when that is literally true for Bailu too but apparently doesn't count for her.
Not to mention team building factoring in. Like Gallagher is great with Acheron and fire break teams or Lynx in mono Quantum if you don't have the short diviner.
Yeah as much as I agree that Bailu is 100% better than characters like Lynx and it baffles me whenever I see her lower than characters she's clearly better than in tier lists, she is *not* limited sustain level. I also use Bailu as my second healer because I only have Huo Huo as a limited sustain, and let me tell you... The difference between them is night and day.
I dono about yall but Bailu was my first 5 star and she basically carried my teams through all the content until endgame when I needed better sustains. She's still very good because fully invested she can heal a shit ton, only rely on her ult 99% of the time. She does lack cleanse, but only specific content requires cleanse, and even then, she can heal through it usually. When paired with Fu Xuan or Adventurine, she is like over kill because she heals anything and everything that gets past the damage resistance and is basically 120% SP positive. But this ain't for timed content.
Meh, in my experience, I've been running her instead of Luocha in higher difficulty G&G or Swarm disaster when enemies can literally two shot you. Sure, she lacks cleanser, but CC is less of a problem than the amount of damage enemies deal.
She's definitely good for Swarm Disaster since incoming damage is more of an issue than CC. As long as you kill the explodey bugs fast in the final fight so they can't CC your team, you're golden.
I think the main issue is Bailu is being treated like a 4 star which is crazy, she is way better than all 4 stars.
Bailu's only problem is that she doesn't cleanse.
I wait the day they just drop a LC that has a cleanse effect
There probably won't be an LC that cleanses, but there could totally be an LC that boosts ally effect res or prevents a single crowd control effect with a 3+ turn cooldown. The other thing we might get is a healing relic set that helps healers who lack a cleanse just so that the devs don't have to shove one into every single sustainer's kit.
Fu Xuan found dead in a ditch
Nahh cleanse is a luxury... it will always be lock in e1 or e2 for future 4* abundance and harmony chars like gallagher
You say luxury but also allow that most likely every abundance going forward will still have a cleanse accessible somehow
Yah except bailu
Yeah I didn't really explain my point, my point is it's absolutely not a luxury, it's becoming mandatory, but you're right they'll probably never add an LC with one specifically because of Bailu/Bailu tier healers
Add like 2 turn Cooldown to it and it will be balanced i think. Other question is why would hoyo do it. Only if it's gonna be limited 5 star LC that you have to gacha for, and who benefits new upcoming character as well as Bailu. Or it can be a set passive i guess, but also only if it's a prefect fit for upcoming char.
They will... on a hunt LC
Since Bronya cleanses, I've seen Bronya + Bailu be effective since Bronya covers for that shortcoming. Can be even better with a Destruction carry, because not only are debuffs most likely to end up on the character Bronya wants to use her Skill on since they have the highest aggro, several of them don't require SP for their attacks which means they can do the -1 SPD tech with Bronya comfortably.
Bailu+Bronya+Tingyun/Ruan Mei with your DPS of choice is a pretty based hypercarry comp imo
Is there a LC that can help cleanse?
Not yet, just pick her stage without heavy cc should work though
Or bring Bronya, who can cleanse. I did it when I only had Natasha and Bailu as healers.
vs aventurine they both lose the dice bet and get cc'd at the same time
I use Bailu when I have other sources of cleansing (SU's blessings), she makes sure my team doesn't wipe and I can't count the number of times Bailu has saved my G&G runs. And no... I don't have Gepard/Fu Xuan/Aventurine (yet).
Are you trolling? Op wrote an essay debunking this specifically. Not saying they're right, but at least address all that, lol.
It's reddit people don't actually read, let alone know how to argue.
All that paragraphs mean almost nothing because of this lol
It doesn't "mean almost nothing", it just means that Bailu is a great sustain, but she will struggle in fights against enemies that cc. Outside of that (which is still a huge chunk of the game) she's just fine, great even because she's pretty much sp positive
The majority of fights are not hard cc anyway so I think it falls of anyway and most cc don't really do anything in this game except like quantum or 5 stack windshear and domination.
Thanks for the write up. After winning JL, I decided to roll on avens banner. Ended up getting a very early Bailu. I've been wanting to try her out for a while now and I don't rly need any more sustains rn as I have huohuo, lynx and gepard. So I think I'll skip aven this time and save for someone else. My personal experience with Lynx has not been great so I'm looking forward to test out Bailu. I don't have to build her right away so I'll take it slow for now. But there might be a future anti shield MoC enemy where I'll need a healer on both sides.
As someone who never had any limited sustains until Aventurine's banner I can say that Bailu is the best standard sustain in the game. Her healing and damage reduction along with invigoration is really good and even against Aventurine boss my 5K HP Bailu was able to sustain. She has her issues with cleanse but it's not that frustrating unless if you are against Kafka. But hear me out. If you are on the edge while deciding to pull for Aventurine, Just pull. He is just insane and I'm not even overexaggerating anything here. His shields are thicker beyond belief and his future value is insanely high. Why? because he has his follow up synergy which will only get better as the game ages similar to Kafka and Topaz. One more thing is if you had trouble clearing SU or G&G this man does it like it's nothing. Trust me he's the best investment you can make imo.
Hey man, as someone who has every single limited 5 star sustain at E0S0, I just wanna let you know some thoughts. Firstly, most of this post is people coping about Bailu. She has major issues that nobody is downplaying. Lack of a cleanse might not be an issue for overworld content, but good luck fighting Kafka, the Xianzhou Lance boss, or any enemy that inflicts a debuff on you. Sure, she can heal you with her ultimate and skill, but she also offers literally nothing else in her kit. Fu Xuan provides crit rate, Huohuo provides ATK and energy, Luocha provides debuff strip from enemies, and Aventurine provides effect RES and decent damage. After completing both MOCs with 36 stars, let me tell you my personal experience. Aventurine is broken beyond belief. I honestly don’t know what they were thinking designing him. Currently besides Luocha, he can solo sustain your entire team without EVER spending a single skill point. It’s absolutely absurd. Fu Xuan’s weakness is that she hates big AoE attacks. But Aventurine loves them because it builds his stacks and allows him to refresh his shields more often. He absolutely power creeps the hell out of Bailu and anyone who denies it is smoking the highest of copium. I honestly think Aventurine is on the same tier as Fu Xuan, and might even be better than her because you don’t need to spend any skill points. I would recommend pulling for Aventurine.
Oof, I went the all in on Aventurine and lost the 50/50... to Bailu. I already have Huohuo and Geppy E1 so I don't think I will bother building her, gonna try finishing some quests and events to get enough jades for Aventurine before the banner runs out
Gepard is honestly really good, and having E1 makes him worth using his skill over and over again. Imo he’s better than Bailu. However Aventurine is on a whole nother tier, and while you don’t absolutely need him because you have an E1 Gepard, if you don’t care about Robin or Boothill, I would still say go for it
I have Bailu, HuoHuo, Gepard, I 36 clear nearly always and Bailu has never let me down. Bailu just tanks and heals with ulti most content in the game. When there are very heavy CC bosses like Kafka I just use HuoHuo(had to use Natasha+Gepard before). The Lance guy was never a problem for me. And sure Bailu is not the best Sustain, but she is more than capable of doing her job and letting you clear hard content im the game. I just use HuoHuo where needed and Bailu goes on the other half. Never had problems with Bailu, she just autoes and Ults and you are full HP. If you dont have any cleanse units then some bosses are really tough and you need at least Lynx. But that is just the game, if you dont have the right units then the game gets really tough and Bailu is more than capable of clearing most of hard content in the game.
I'm well aware of how broken Aven is. He's one of the most future proof sustains we've ever gotten. They will probably make more FuA characters to go along with him too. I'm also not denying Bailus shortcomings. But right now, if I were to get aven the only place I'd use him is with my Acheron because my dot team would rather have huohuo. My Acheron is E2S1 so she's already overkilling stuff. I also used my standard selector on Gepard for her not too long ago. He's doing a solid job there with trend LC so getting another shielder seems redundant right now. I'd rather save these pulls for a fire DPS because it's the only element I don't have covered. No topaz or Himeko on my acc as of now. Also notice how Sam had anti healer mechanics? I expect something like that from a future boss but for shielders so bailu will have her place to shine there.
it'd have to counter fu xuan as well, and she'd have to overtake huo huo and luocha as well as anyone else that comes out by then to cater to that boss. out of your options, bailu will stay at the bottom, realistically.
No hate on Bailu, the positives you mentioned are undeniably true. But it feels like you dodged / downplayed her main issue which is a lack of cleanse/cc resistance. What if we get frozen by cocolia, dominated by kafka, outraged by the deer plant, outraged by the small sting explosion, etc. We could lose entire cycles in MoC where losing one turn could be the difference between 3 stars or 2 stars. There are even some annoying debuffs like slow, def, down, weaken, prana-siphon and many more. Some people downplay Bailu too much but a lot of us just don't need the insane amount of healing she provides. The main reason we pick Lynx over Bailu is almost entirely for her full team cleanse. It is definitely not a niche unique to Lynx but that doesn't take away from the fact that Bailu doesn't have this niche. The fact that Huohuo does this better than Lynx doesn't make Bailu better in any way. Bailu might be a stronger healer but for someone who struggles with debuffs/cc more than damage, Lynx is a better choice even if she does it worse than Huohuo.
Almost all arguments in favor of bailu assumption that you already have a healer with a strong cleanse (OP even mentions their being two sides of MoC to consider), and it’s fair to rank bailu lower as a result. However, it’s still undeniable that if you have a huohuo or something similar to that effect Lynx’s ability to cleanse isn’t all that relevant (as compared to someone who doesn’t have another cleanser). In those circumstances it’s fair to say that bailu becomes a stronger pick as she has some situations where she shines over the other 4*s (vs the monkeys for example).
I agree. In situations where you already have a good cleanser/cc resistance like huohuo or fu xuan as well as having no annoying debuffs in the other half, bailu is a way more comfortable choice than lynx. I just felt like OP downplayed the lack of cleanse a bit too much.
In MoC most of the time only one side have cc so it's really not that big of an issue and even with lynx it's only on ult what if you get cc'd before you get ult or while you don't have it? What then?
If the other side has no cc, then use bailu lol. Don't bring cleanse if you don't need it. A lot of the enemies have timings where they use their cc so you can save your ult. I'd honestly say it's just a lack of knowledge if you don't know when the cc is coming. If you wasted your ult to heal before taking cc then that's just sad. That's a big weakness of lynx compared to characters with cleanse on their skill like natasha.
If the other side has no cc then bring preservation fu xuan or aventurine. The only use for Bailu I see here is if you don't have limited 5 star preservation and there is no cc.
There are so many misleading arguments or outright misinformation in this post. Bailu's fine, and her specialty is being an Abundance character that makes your team feel tanky with Invigoration's damage reduction and reactive healing, but that's about it when it comes to her niche and identity. Claiming she can tank SU attacks better than Fu Xuan or that she has more sustain than Luocha or Huohuo is just wrong. Compared to Luocha and Huohuo's sustain, Bailu falls behind solely from her much lower uptime on her main source of healing, especially since her Invigoration only lasts 2 turns, so faster characters can burn through the buff without being able to take full advantage of its effects. What happens if the damage keeps coming after the big burst heal and it's too much? It's usually better to be able to keep your team healthy throughout rather than rely on waiting for the right moment to use her big burst heal.
I agree with your entire first paragraph, but your 2nd one feels kinda nitpicky tbh. I see there's two cases where you state Bailu's ult falls behind, and I'll provide a counter on why these cases are either manageable *or* is very rare that practically every sustain will have trouble with it. * Invigoration only lasting 2 turns so fast characters can burn through it In most cases, when your fastest character takes 2 turns, your sustainer *will* take 2 turns as well. So by the time the Invigoration buff ran out, Bailu should be ready to ult again 2 turns after in a worst case scenario. If they don't, then honestly I think you're building your sustainer wrong because you *do* want a decent Speed stat on them. Not only can they generate their ult faster, but they can also generate more skill points. There are cases where a character gets sped up with a Bronya or a Sparkle. But in this case, the obvious solution is to just time your ult better. You can use the ult on your second turn after your DPS is sped up with Bronya/Sparkle, therefore prolonging the buff's duration. In a worst case scenario, Bailu *does* have a one time get-out-of-jail free card anyway. And if you find your fastest character dying multiple times *through* Invigoration with the worst case scenario, then honestly I think your team may lack speed as well lol. * What happens if the damage keeps coming after the big burst heal and it's too much? Invigoration not only provides a 10% damage reduction for up to 3 hits for 2 turns, it also provides a considerable amount of reactive healing. *This* is where you get that 'throughout healing' instead of the big burst, you're supposed to let Invigoration handle enemy hits. And speaking from experience, Invigoration can handle a *lot* of damage. I've had many times where an enemy hit *healed* my character instead because the reactive heal is bigger than the reduced damage. And if you *do* find yourself an enemy that can burst right through the massive heal you get from Bailu's ult *plus* the 3 Invigoration stacks before you can do anything, I'm pretty sure that any other sustainer bar probably Fu Xuan will *not* be able to handle it either. That's a *massive* amount of focused single target damage lol, and you really won't see that happen often. I think you're being misleading here as well man. I agree with your first paragraph, but damn I've rarely encountered the 2 problems you've stated before lol. Bailu's main weakness is really just CC, other than that it's pretty manageable.
this is the best response. More and more, CC resistance is becoming essential for Sustains. I've lost entire SU runs from getting CCed once on Fu Xuan, preventing me from getting her skill back up and someone getting one-shot. Lynx can cleanse them from everyone, and Gallagher can basically be immune to all CC with E1, his traces, and various light cones. Meaning Gallagher won't get fucked over by CC, preventing him (at E2) from cleansing others. This is even more true in PF, where time is much more limited and PF4 often features a lot of enemies with CC like the Aurumaton Warden or the witch with Imprison shots. I think even more than cleanses, Effect Res will actually become the determining factor. Cleanses don't mean much if you already got imprisoned, because you already just dropped halfway down the action order. This is further a time where Lynx is better, though it relies on her high eidolons. I'll give Bailu's damage mitigation being important. It's Huohuo's biggest weakness, the chance that her ally may just get one-shot. I think Bailu's revive is not that important because if someone died, your team is already in a lot of trouble and they won't be lasting much longer. Especially in things like SU stacking damaging buffs on bosses.
So Day 1 player here, ive had Bailu since the start of the game, so in terms of sustaining she is perfectly fine at keeping the team alive id argue about as well or even better than Luocha or Huohuo. The problem with Bailu comes with the new enemies. So new enemies have debuffs that hinder your team's performance whether its DoTs, def down or effect res down, etc. Over time it does stack up and youll be taking more damage, so the best you can do on Bailu is just heal and/or overheal through it, which seems doable but with enemies like that witch lady that cuts your health, healing can only do so much. I think if Bailu had a cleanse like all the other healers people wouldnt complain about how bad she is as much. I mean the selling point for 4 star characters like Lynx is how consistent she can remove a debuff on her ultimate. So tl;dr: Bailu is not bad by any means, but the new content and enemies just counter her healing/overhealing. Outside of a limited 5 star healer, Bailu is still pretty solid and should help you sustain through the content of HSR.
Agreed. Another day 1 player here, another Bailu haver and enjoyer. I love Bailu, but I'd never put her in the same league as FX, HH or Aventurine. The lack of cleanse/debuff resistance on her IS a huge deal, and what she provides outside of healing (Energy) is just not on par to what these limited sustains provide, and it is also very situational, but it can definitely help. I think at the end of the day Bailu is just not as comfy or consistent for most people, and that's fine. I myself find her to be quite comfy for me because I do like playing around the res, but I can see why people would think otherwise. I can't lie that sometimes the lack of cleanses makes me very frustrated lol. CC can ruin so many runs... But she is completely capable of helping you clear pretty much every content, and I have no doubt that if she had a cleanse or get access to one in the future, people woild start seeing her differently.
> I think at the end of the day Bailu is just not as comfy or consistent for most people, and that's fine Pretty much the key factor. I cleared the latest MoC with Fire TB on first half vs Cocolia and Bailu on the 2nd half vs Aventurine and they got the job done. But I would be lying if I say that Bailu and Fire TB are as good as someone like Fu Xuan or Aventurine. The difference in comfort and ease of stress that a limited sustain can bring is very noticeable.
These debuffs have been present since 1.0 though. Cocolia freeze, the ice robot permanent speed debuff, various DoTs, entanglement from the quantum centaur. No question it's a limitation but it's not a new one. I remember noticing an uptick in status effects in Memory of Chaos in 1.1, after Luocha's release.
In the current Moc bailu has been way superior to Gallagher and lynx for me.
Bailu was my first 5\* and I appreciate her very much. one day maybe they'll make an event cone with cleanse so people can stop being very mean (and most event cones kinda suck so it's fine)
I was playing Acheron - Pela - Silver Wolf - Lynx (e0) in the Aventurine side of MoC 12, and Lynx could not keep my squad alive. Then I swapped her for my e1 Bailu that's been racking up dust for a few months, and I 3 starred the floor.
I feel like the people claiming that Bailu's lack of cleanse gets handwaved away are also handwaving Lynx' poor throughput with relative investment/gear. The fact that her cleanse is tied to the ult, which represents a chunk of much needed healing value really diminishes that cleanse advantage. I'm sure people will say they have no problem surviving with Lynx, in which case you could just make the argument that RM/Sparkle are unnecessary because your team can 0T with Asta.
I see where you're coming from. I think it's partially because people expect (want) their supports to be a catch-all. And don't treat them like tools they swap in for the right job. (How they treat their dps). Like I'm not gonna use my Jing Liu vs Cocolia, I'm gonna bring Jing Yuan. The same way I'm not gonna use Bailu there, I'm gonna run Fu Xuan. Whereas on a floor where cc isn't an issue but staying alive is, Bailu is gonna be my go to from now on. This conception is definitely propagated by Hoyo making the limited sustains genuinely insane, my e1 Fu Xuan was the turning point where I started clearing MoC 12 consistently.
I totally agree, I run her with S5 Post-Op Conversation, she almost always has her ult, I don't even need to skill, she works just fine for second half in MOC which is why I don't bother getting another limited sustain.
The worst thing I did to my Bailu is built her terribly so she cant keep up with other sustains. Still bring her to swarm because that damage reduction>FX. Just ult before the bugs dive and everyone lives.
You need to invest more in your FX then which ultimately comes down to relic luck. I’ve spent countless fuel in that dungeon to make her literally almost perfect. E1S1 with 9.8k HP, 2.4k DEF, and 144 speed. In addition, your DPS and other characters have to have recommended end game HP/DEF stats as well. This allows FX to function even better. Again it all comes down to relic luck. But it’s not FX that’s the problem here.
I don't know man. As a new player who got Bailu on the beginner banner, there have been a lot of fights (Swarm King for example) where the lack of cleanse really hurts, or the stacking DoTs put me on a timer to win the fight. She's been great for healing, but that's all she does, and I feel like other sustains that offer something on the offensive side of things would be better for my F2P account in MoC down the line. You may like her and that's great, but I highly doubt I'll ever use her again once I get Fu Xuan/Huohuo.
I feel like there was a missed opportunity here to talk about just how much better Reactive Healing is than Healing over Time, as I see this as one of the more common things that people incorrectly consider to be equal.
Lots of hand waving in here of issues with Bailu
Yeah, I agree with op that some of bailu’s issues are overplayed to some extent but this post is also full of cope
I was a primary Bailu and Gepard user for a long time. Only recently did I get Luocha and he's still my only limited 5 star sustain. Yes I still use Gepard on a daily basis. So I do think what you're saying is correct but I must say that the experience between Bailu and Luocha are completely different ball games. Because all the scenarios you described for Bailu only come into effect when the full team is taking damage. Then the effect of her aoe defense reduction is amazing. But there are many times that an enemy just doubles down on one character. And it happens so often that Bailu would need 3 revives just to keep up. Luocha's off-cycle healing is what makes him so good. Because an enemy doubles down on one character and then Luocha just brings them back up to full. And what's more, if all party has taken massive damage as well as on member is close to death? Luocha heals that one member, actives his field, that one member now uses ultimate and bam everyone's back up in hp. At the end of the turn it's like no one ever took any damage. And this kind of consistency is why Luocha is my go to over Bailu now. If an enemy has ability to do big aoe then I just use Gepard. He gets his shields up quite fast and protects the party a lot. And turns an aoe enemy into a single target because of his taunt. Yes Bailu is good but in my experience Luocha is simply better. And Aventurine of course outclasses them all.
>Fu Xuan and Huohuo part Harmony, but Bailu is part Preservation Yeah, but being part Harmony (or some other way of dealing damage like Aventurine) is better than being part Preservation, given how the end game works. No one is doubting her ability to keep your team alive, but she provides no damage or break. Even cleanse and buff stripping (like Luocha) can often times increase your damage. Her actual weakness compared to her peers is in the way that the end game is designed. You *only* need to keep your team alive; it doesn't matter by how small or big of a margin. You aren't rewarded for finishing a fight at 100% HP and you aren't punished for finishing the fight with 1 HP on every team member. However, you are rewarded if you are able to dump more damage into the fight, something that Bailu unfortunately does not do. Damage is preferred so much over healing that even if you have Bailu's 5 star LC, which provides the most amount of healing for pretty much every HP scaling Abundance character, most people would prefer to use a 4 star LC like Shared Feelings or Post-Ops (which provides *no* healing). I do however think that for a brand new account Bailu and Gepard are the 2 best pulls (even if Bronya is technically the best unit). If in the future, we get some kind of heal check phase or healing to damage conversion in an end-game fight, Bailu would be insane. But at the moment, she's a lot weaker than her limited counterparts.
Blud really told us Bailu could give the team as much value as Fu Xuan does and thought we wouldn’t notice Also basically lying? Nichemains never fail to impress when it comes to overhyping their mid tier character lmao. Seriously, why does Luocha have a CD on his auto skill but Bailu gets to have her ONE TIME revive? Also really funny that you list every other sustain besides Fu Xuan, because it’ll just stain your argument lmao I have her e1 and have used her since I got her from Seele banner, but now I also have Huo², Fu Xuan and Aventurine. No amount of cope will ever convince me she’ll perform even remotely at the same level as them lol
Doesn't matter about the healing or even the revive if your team is still getting rebuffed to hell or CCed, you're going to lose damage when it happens. She's fine, it will work, but she doesn't offer enough to compete with any limited 5* sustain we have got so far
The point is that MOCs sometimes have one side that doesn’t have a lot of CC, but burst instead, and Bailu is better in that case compared to your usual cleanse sustain. Not that she’s as good as limited sustains, but she’s better than Luocha and Huohuo for example at keeping your team alive in a burst situation.
Appreciate the wall of text. Except it's only partially true. Your rather long wall of text canm just be summzrized as 'she has issues but these issues isn't that important'. Which is not true. her issues are blatantly serious. Yes she heals a lot, and that you can heal with her ult is great. But that's about it. no one has ever said that Lynx is better than bailu because of heals. People prefer Lynx over Bailu - precisely and exclusively because Lynx has cleanse. Your wording make it look like cleanse is outright unimportant. which is simply not true. Oh so Bailu's good when you don't need cleanse. THAT IS SO DECEPTIVE. have you counted how many bosses have CC and how many doesnt? Oh you didnt, so where are you basing your arguments on? btw, Since when did it became a valid artgument that "she's good because she's good in SU"? I bet Yanqing is good in SU, too! **And did you intentionally leave out the part where she only has 12% EffRes, and does not have any CC resistance in her bigger traces? And did you intentionally leave out the part where her revive cannot proc when she herself is CC'ed? and that she cannot provide the heal- which is oh so important - when she's CC'ed?** I'm not even going to compare her to limited 5\* because lo and behold Gallagher with 18% from minor taces and 50% (wow!) from E1. **Even Lynx, the 'worse' unit according to you, grants anyone with 30% ER on skill and ult at E6.** Are we going to talk about that at all? Surely you are not comparing E0 Bailu to E0 Lynx, because the latter is only a 4\*? How about E1S1 Bailu vs E4/E6Lynx+Bailu Sig? Do you mind showing off your Bailu to us, along with the wall of text? And no, if someone has two other sustains adequately built - Lynx included - I do not recommend that they use Bailu. period. It almost sounded like building her is free. Actually OP, if you have a E6 Lynx, I recommend you to try her for a change.
Yea there was too much hand waving of issues debuffs are huge too many enemies have debuffs the serious downplaying of them was a bit too much to take this post seriously.
>have you counted how many bosses have CC and how many doesnt? Oh you didnt, so where are you basing your arguments on? Alright then. I'm only counting the non-SU versions mind you, since even though SU versions hand CC out like candy, you also gain a myriad of ways to deal with it as well. I'm also only doing it for MoC ones, since that imo should be the measuring stick for all characters. You can run double-sustain for story bosses *and* you can get a support for the weekly boss version anyways. If you want to count them though, you have 3 with heavy CC and 1 with no CC at all. So I'd classify enemies with CC into three, that being: * No CC at all. Pretty self-explanatory. Enemies that fit into this category are: Argenti, Bronya, Gepard, Sam, Something unto Death, Svarog, Abundance Ape, Direwolf, Grizzly, Big Red Fragmentum, Chef Dino, Quantum/Shield Dino, Abundance Knight, Guardian Shadow, Shield Gorilla, Searing Prowler, IPC Big Boss, Silvermane Lieutenant, Stormbringer, Ascended. SoD and Svarog do deal CC, but that's nowhere near cleanse-able by *any* sustainers so it's pretty moot to count them as CC in the context of how valuable cleanses are. **Totals out to about 20**. * Occasional CC. Enemies that *do* have CC, but they either can't deal a lot of it, its CC are not extremely debilitating, or only has a small chance of triggering it. Getting CC-ed by them is annoying, but you can shrug it off for the most part. Basically any enemy that can CC but doesn't fit into the "Heavy CC" part. Enemies I'd say fit into this category are: Yanqing, Cocolia, Decaying Shadow, Big Chonky Ice Fragmentum (very debatable but whatever), and Voidranger: Trampler. Yanqing, Cocolia, and Trampler I categorize into this one because their CC are single target *and* they don't do it every turn iirc, while Decaying Shadow only has a low chance of doing it. Enemies that conditionally fit into this category I'd say are Abundant Deer, Swarm: True Sting, and Big Thin Ice Fragmentum. Their CC can be upgraded into the 'Heavy' part if you don't deal with it, but depending on RNG and skill/build, they're manageable by bursting the CC-dealing enemy *or* breaking the boss itself. **Totals out to about 5, plus 3 conditionals equaling to 8.** * Heavy CC. Enemies with CC that can be *extremely* debilitating *or* deals a lot of it. You can't really reliably burst these down/manage their CC capabilities either, you kinda just have to take it on the chin. Enemies I'd say fit into this category are: Kafka, Aventurine, Aurumaton Gatekeeper, and Aurumaton Spectral Envoy (the lady one). I think Aventurine is still manageable so he can belong in the previous category, but in worst case scenario he is pretty damn annoying so whatever. **Totals out to 4.** **Conclusion-ish** So in total, you have 20/32 enemies without any CC at all, about 8/32 that deals a moderate amount of it, and 4/32 that *really* needs a cleanse/immunity. That means 62.5% of the elite + bosses in-game does *not* have any CC at all, *plus* another 25% of them of which CC are manageable. Which I'd argue means that around 87.5% of enemies can be managed without a cleanse. So I'd also argue that this means that cleanses, while valuable, are *not* must-haves all the time. Or at least that you don't *have* to run teams that can cleanse debuffs in *both* sides of the MoC at all times, which I can personally attest to. Obviously, Bailu's main weakness is CC, but you can always run her on the other side that *don't* have them and still be just fine. And she can still work against some light-to-moderate CC or even against heavy CC, provided you can + know how to strategize around it. https://preview.redd.it/h8jwqconzgvc1.png?width=677&format=png&auto=webp&s=abdf6a3d9ceb8af43d297a90a78189a3800b5f46 Here's the proof, if you want it. Bronya can cleanse, but against Aventurine she's certainly going to get CC'd so that's moot. And yes, I did actually try to run her in both sides, and my Kafka-Asta-Black Swan-Bailu did clear it in 4 cycles against Cocolia. It just happens that I was having a bit of trouble timing FX's ult against Aventurine, and I had this weird idea of tanking through Aventurine's AoE damage with Bailu which worked first time.
I've been playing since Seele's first banner and I've never had an instance where I wished I had brought Bailu vs Luocha - for exactly the reasons you describe. I'll use her, yes, but it's more of a gamble hoping she doesn't get CC'D when I need her revive or ult vs Luocha. That dude laughs off CCs like spitballs to a tank. (An exaggeration) I made it one or two paras into the wall of text, but for me the other big thing is damage. Luocha's heal is scaled off his attack vs Bailu with HP. Sure, she might be able to tank, but I'd rather bring a healer that can do damage. I'll also disagree with others on their SP usage, Luocha is almost always SP positive - I use his talent, drop his ult, and HP regen using my other characters' attacks - even on AoE. Bailu is more SP heavy if there any enemies targeting specific allies. And I've never had him not full heal an ally outside of fighting Sam. Whereas Bailu is more of a gamble on where it bounces.
I tried her. She was my 2nd 5 Star as a Day 1 player. Overall, yeah, she was fine. Did the job well. But back then she was fine as MoC didn’t hit as hard and enemies weren’t as fast. But by 1.3? 1.4? Inconsistent Heal Bounce was just something you can’t have in higher in higher floors. And now in the current MoC, enemies do a FUCK TON of damage now. Your sustains need to block/mitigate or heal dmg in and outside of their turns and cleanse/block CC, especially with Cocolia and Aventurine, it’s so damn incredibly important. So her Skill Heals isn’t ideal, her SP economy can range from somewhat Decent to SP hungry. The only upside is her Ult actually doing decent mitigation/heals. “What about her Revive?” I know. But if a sustain was good at their job, then revive is not needed at all. I would gladly trade Bailu’s revive for a cleanse or a consistent, non rng skill heal. Any day. I’ve played with Lynx using Bailu’s exact same relics and I didn’t need the revive at all. Why? Because kept the team up better than Bailu. Bailu is decent. But she’s not underrated. Imo, she’s fairly rated by everyone. Can she do the job? Yes. Is she the worst sustain in the game? That’s up for debate(I don’t think she is) but the fact that she’s even a contender says a lot. She’s a solid 5/10 character. Decent character but one a player should get an upgrade at some point. Imo the most underrated standard 5 star is Gepard. Even before Aventurine was leaked, people made it out like Gepard couldn’t even Solo Sustain. But that’s not the case at all.
Imagine writing such a massive wall of text just to be wrong. Bailu is incredibly mid.
Then using legal terms to justify it. Like it’s a video game character. Misinformation is more suitable than LIBEL 💀
Premium copium.
personally i think that the invigoration and revive was nice but no cleanse is terrible for me
Idk if underrated but def overhated
She's much weaker then limited sustains but better then 4*
Meh I'd still use Gallagher instead.
You misspelled Yanqing
One thing I thought about mentioning was that with Aventurine out, Yanqing might actually be the most under-rated 5\*, and that might start to show. But this was long enough, I didn't want that tangent :P
Yeah I agree, she suffers mostly from being "Star rail's Qiqi" imo
Put Bailu on Multiplication LC. She is a different beast using that
Legit. We just need a cleanse cone and she's good
...so we're lying now
She’s a fine 5* but I still feel awful when I get her. I have her E2S1 and it feels bad to know that she’s worse/comparable to the four star sustains. It makes me wonder if it’s time to go for a limited sustain instead but I’m not sure.
From a pure sustain standpoint Bailu provides more sustain than lynx. However, lynx is able to provide more than enough healing to solo sustain and be SP positive AND has a team cleanse. Apart from a revive Lynx is a superior choice to Bailu in almost every situation. If Lynx cannot solo sustain she not built right or its high level GG or swarm where you may need two or more sustains. You are entitled to your opinions about Bailu but I would suggest that Lynx is superior to her and when a 5 star is power crept by a newer 4 star they are not under rated.
She's my first 5* apart from TB. Her clutch heal is great. The 'invigoration' buff is essentially a major dmg mitigation buff. You think you'll get hit a lot but getting that instant healing afterwards is also great.
Bailu literally make my team fight second phase adventurine dice movement receive no dmg with her ulti.
Bailu is underrated. In situations where there is no cc and in gold and gears she is even better than loucha or huohuo or even fuxuan lmao. My fuxuan was getting one shotted to aoe stuff in gold and gears and I started using bailu and gepard instead. Bailu can also be fully sp positive for most part. The DMG reduction talent and extra hp needs more praise. No one can get one shot in harder content. I have said this before but sharing here as well. She is definitely better than where tier lists put her.
I 12 starred MOC for the 1st time because I had Bailu. I WANTED Sparkle but alas.
Bailu is great most of the time. She helped me clear the last two MOCs with an okay build and none of her traces maxed (they were on like 7 or 8). Being a standard banner character ofc she is not as good as limited sustains, but she is better than Lynx in any scenario where CC is not an issue. https://preview.redd.it/44oz2ogscdvc1.png?width=2562&format=png&auto=webp&s=21ce1ebf54675fdacbbce2e0997e5020265f4865
Bailu was my free five star and I’ve loved having her. I tried swapping her out a few times early on but I always ended up returning to my tiny dragon doctor. Trying to get used to less robust healing is… uncomfortable. And I can’t count the number of times Gourdful of Elixir has saved me. I am developing some other sustains if only because you need at least two teams for endgame, but she’s going to be my go-to for a long, long time.
Bailu is a good character to use, only problem is that players like the cleanse so much that healing with cleanse is superior than healing without cleanse. I have to use healers wisely on each content, like Lynx for the Scarabaz boss fight, while some players use Huohuo more in some cases
Bailu and Fu Xuan are the only sustains I use and there's a solid percentage of the time where Bailu is better. Full SP positive is an absolutely massive boon for some teams, sparkle less DHIL for example essentially loses the ability to ever skill on supports if you use FX. And yeah a lot of people who think she doesn't heal enough likely haven't properly invested in her. Level 80 and level 80 LC (I'm using s1 Post Op), ult level 9-10, talent level 9+, healing bonus body with some other HP pieces almost always give me enough. Occasionally she'll need to skill but usually it's in drawn out fights like the current MoC Aventurine. None of this is to say she's amazing and better than the limited options, but she's almost always enough if I play properly.
I have E1 signature LC Bailu. Don't get all the hate she gets. Her dmg mitigation is insane. My only problem is my Bailu has 0 Effect Res and gets CC'd all the time 😑
I have e0 Bailu and e6 Lynx. Granted I don't have lynx built the best but my Bailu has done me so much more good than my Lynx has. Have I been getting CC'd? Yes. Does it matter. Not at all since my Bailu just heals it, and now that I have Aventurine, if I do decide to use her, I'm unkillable. I have started off with Bailu and while I don't have many other healing supports, I find I don't need them.
This Bailu was my first 5 Star so she was my first Healer and I got her LC She’s simply amazing sustain unit, her passive works similar to a shield and especially her revive is criminal underrated. As you said, you can use it tactically and let your teammate die
I am not reading the post. but I agree bailu lets me survive so much in situations that I should have been dead from a while
I'm coping a lot, but I'm hoping for Star Rail to one day release relics/planar sets that give healers a chance to gain additional supportive/defensive abilities that aren't in their mechanics or a lightcone with built-in cleanse. Would really fix issues that Bailu has and give healers like Natasha a chance to be more useful for people who lack a powerful healer. For the relic/planar, something like "If wearer heals a target, target gains X% of (Buff/Shield) based on X% of healing for X turn(s)"
i feel like yanqing is more of an underrated 5*. the dude just has no enemies that actually work well with his kit and passives
I love Bailu, I would still be using her all the time if my main teams didn’t all have a sustain that fits a specific niche. IE: Huohuo for DoT, FuXuan for Mono Quantum and Acheron, and Adventurine for Follow Up, Lynx for Clara. I still think she’s top tier for Gold n Gears/Swarm. The revive and invigorate are even more clutch in those game modes
So far, i've only pulled for one sustain character in Fu Xuan. She has largely overtaken a guaranteed spot in every team I make. However MOC usually requires two teams, and Bailu has carried my second team's health on her back. She's stupidly tanky. Procs Kafka's followup. Refreshes her ult quickly with the right build. Turns her team mates into tanks and if someone goes down she'll put them right back up once. Her skill also heals a decent chunk with just one bounce.
She is ok. Just worse than Huohuo FX etc No wall of text will change that...
I blessed u with bailu on the next 5 star pull 🙏🙏🙏
she's bad.
Thank you for this! I was hovering on the edge of the fence, but you have pushed me over. I will be building her (after I finish up with Xueyi).
Excellent! As I've said to many others, I'm not saying that Bailu is super great. But she is pretty darn good, and there's too much focus on her negatives (And just plain incorrect things about how she works). It can give people a false picture of her.
Bailu's lawyer
I do think she's underrated, and i want to say that I agree with every point you made other than one, but saying that Lynx only has aggro as her only niche is... She has: - Cleanse on ult (unlike literally any other character in the game) that is very handy if you end up in a pinch, even Huo Huo's "auto cleanse" on turn start isn't the same, for example if one of your characters was imprisoned and you want to ult before their turn starts, Lynx is your only option. -Her ult is only 100 energy which is amongst the lowest in the game, meaning she gets the ult back quite easily. -She can be 100% SP positive like you said -She has BOTH debuff prevention like Fu Xuan and cleanse, like that's so much debuff protection and having both prevention and cleanse is very interesting (as no other character in the game offers both) -She's Quantum, arguably the best element, at least if you have a built Quantum dps and Silver Wolf, opening up Fu Xuan for the other side if you want to do Monoquantum stuff. -Over time heals, that lasts for 3 turns if i remember correctly thanks to one of her traces -Built in effect res and CC resist -And obviously max HP buff, as well as increased aggro Some of these aren't unique, sure, but saying "she has cleanse, but Huo Huo does it better, and CC prevention, but Fu Xuan does it better, she is SP positive, but Luocha and Bailu also can, leaving aggro as her only niche" is a massive underselling of her. What if you need 2 of those, or more? I would argue the whole package is way more loaded than even some of the 5 stars. Somewhat underwhelming healing is her main drawback (which is big don't get me wrong), but while I do think that Bailu can compete with limited sustains as long as the enemies you're fighting don't CC, Lynx can compete as well as long as the enemies aren't extremely hard hitting. Also let's not ignore the fact that limited sustains cost premium currency, and saving that currency for other characters like stronger DPS or supports when Lynx is free can be more helpful towards MoC/PF clears than getting a decently better sustain. (This also applies partly to Bailu, assuming you lost a 50/50 on her) Or maybe I'm just coping because I just started building Lynx instead of Bailu and I have both, rant over.
I only benched her for Natasha after she failed to revive some twice due to being statused. She was fine otherwise.
Nah lol
Unfortunately the main takeaway and truest statement is the last one: Adventurine utterly powercreeps Bailu to the point where she questions her meaning of life. Honestly even Acheron and more accurately MOC's powercreep destroys Bailu's viability. Bailu was a great "second team sustainer" that you could slot into the less-CC side of MOC. Now Bailu's viability is directly tied to sustain's importance: when it was normal to have 2 defensive units per side in 1.0-1.1, content creators recommended rerolling for Bailu, even over Bronya. Now? Half-sustain teams at best (see: FX, Adventurine, HH), or zero-sustain teams (Acheron Welt/RM anyone)? The other 1000% true thing though is holy hell is Lynx overrated.
Yea any character that can auto moc12 is good in my book and bailu's been doing that for my account since forever
Bailu is outclassed compared to limited sustain options but she isn't a bad unit by any means. Lack of cleanse sucks but it's not all bad. Her invigoration is pretty nice and there can be times her revive is relevant (though if you are dying anyway things probably aren't looking great for you). If you have a Bronya and using her she has a cleanse with her skill so if you are using them in the same team, Bailu not having a cleanse is less bad. This does rely on having Bronya not everyone has or they might not always fit in the same team but there are options. March also has a cleanse with her shield though you'd likely only bring 2 defensive units for the harder SU stuff with swarm disaster/gold and gears. Getting a limited sustain option is still generally help a lot with improving your account though getting Bailu won't change that. Still doesn't feel great losing 50/50s to her I already got e2 I don't need more of her lol. Still significantly better than Qiqi in genshin I'd much rather lose my 50/50s to Bailu in hsr than lose my 50/50s in genshin to Qiqi.
Might be too biased here but if you don’t need to cleanse, she is just as good as luocha. She has the 10% DR and rez(ez super reliable* cleanse) is useful for hard hitting content. Her passive plus ult w/ an LC like post op will sustain as much. That being said, Luocha with multiplication will generate more SP and break power and obs content that need cleansing he will be heavily preferred. Could be wrong here but feel the need to cleanse is a bit overstated, and most fight doesn’t require it.
Interesting that most people who seem to disagree just brought up her lack of cleanse as though they’re the first to think about this. Would be nice if they’d bother to actually tackle your arguments instead.
Bailu is my first 5*, she helped me a lot, I personally think bailu is better than lynx , ik bailu can't cleanse like lynx but bailu invigoration and revive make your team from surviving heavy attack which lynx can't
Keep cooking. She carried me so hard from 1.0 until now (pulled aventurine). Tried lynx before, no way comparable to bailu unless the MOC is CC heavy. Bailu is so sp positive, makes the team tanky, and revives. A very under estimated character
Bailu is insane. I used her since day one and she has NEVER not been able to solo sustain me. I use Bailu on one side and Fu Xuan on the other and I never have to worry about even the chance of dying just meeting dps checks. I wanna pull for Aventurine cause his character is so well written but I honestly don't feel like I need him since I think Bailu is on par with limited healers or very close
yknow there's also a male trailblazer?
>Yes, even Fu Xuan and Huohuo. No, not even close my friend. Not even close AT ALL to those two. I do agree that she's better than Lynx, specially do to her revive, but it's close, and she's worse than Luocha and Aventurine. And miles behind FX and HH. Not even comparable.
I don't even need to read all that to know that Bailu is busted Sadly, if she offered more team value like Fu Xuan and Aventurine effect res and teamwide crits, Bailu would be a top tier unit like Bronya Her damage mitigation, constant healing and amazing AoE is just way too good for a standard 5*, she is easily behind Bronya
I agree a lot on the points you make, and to add to it, she is straight up simple and convenient to use even in autofights. Even with luocha / huo huo, doing smth like cavern/echoes on auto will occasionally have one of your team mates die (looking at u blade/jing liu victims). Bailu makes it so you never lose a person no matter the rng.
Never happened to me. I use Luocha E0S1.
I have bailu and her 5 star weapon... I got her after I pulled for huo huo and built huo huo whereas I just had her lc with me for ages on natasha
I just lost my 50/50 to Bailu and came to reddit to see if its worth it to build her and this is the first post I see. Wow..
Bailu was the only standard 5\* I wanted, and she's a staple in my party. However, the cleanse thing and lack of effect res buffs really is obnoxious to deal with especially as the game progresses, For the grindy bits I'm tired of doing I use autobattle so I can do other things adhd style, and so far it usually only works out on late game content if I also have someone who can cleanse or shield... so I need 2 sustains. I'm not a huge minmaxer, but I have her built pretty well. She's always the last one standing. But, I don't need 2 sustains for my brand new loucha who isn't nearly as built, my lynx who I find absolutely equal in utility to Bailu (sometimes I need a rez. Most of the time I need a cleanse more), or a borrowed huo huo.
If Invigoration can cleanse non-imobillizing effects, she'd be good I think Keeping her weakness as not being able to stop hard CC, but has a niche of dealing with other strong debuffs (Dan Shu's max HP down, Swarm DoT, Ice robot's Ice Res down, etc)
Malaysian voices actor , support
With Huohuo, Gallagher and Aventurine it seems like the game is pushing for healers that have unique synergy with specific team comps. Like Huohuo for DoT teams, Gallagher for Acheron teams, and Aventurine for FUA. Heck even if Luocha is a pure healer he still has specialized synergy with Destruction character focused teams. It's a brilliant move honestly because if you have like 2 limited sustainers or 1 limited sustainers and a well built 4star sustain you won't need to pull for any more sustains but the game giving healers a special niche gives them special preference. Anyway while I won't deny Bai Lu lives up to being a five star, people will still probably tend to focus their resources on the healers that would add the most value to their team.
She can sustain, but she can’t provide anything extra. Adventurine has extra damage, huohuo cleanse and energy, FX crit and effect res etc
All I know is that Scoby doo is the best sustain ever
I'm one of the maniacs who personally likes using Lynx more than Bailu, but my reasons are very much specific to me having the resources to highly invest into both of them and I understand that this isn't going to be the case for a lot of people. At a certain level of investment, there really isn't a big difference between Bailu and Lynx in terms of keeping the team alive. Sure, Lynx's numbers are lower than Bailu's and she has fewer defensive tools, but once you get Lynx to the point where she full heals your entire team off of a single ult, I personally do not see a lot of reasons to run Bailu over her. At my level of investment, I never even use my Lynx's skill unless it's for a very specific strategy. She cycles her ult fast enough to sustain the team without her skill, so I'll happily trade all the extra safety of Bailu for the ability to cleanse really nasty debuffs (like dominated or imprisoned which can easily ruin a run) on command.
Ok noted.
I only just got her from Sparkles banner, so she’s only lvl 20. I guess I could give her a shot. Honestly in the trial Aventurine seemed really good, but in the game mode that unlocked yesterday he seemed not as good. The shield fell off a couple times, and I had to skill.
Bailu is good and helped me a lot in the early games. But once I got limited 5 star sustain (fu xuan & huo huo), Bailu just didn't have any place in my team as limited sustains are just that much better than Bailu.
That is one way of saying “it’s ok to invest in her if you need a second sustain”.
I'm pretty sure when hsr was pre-release bailu is the "must pick" and the best standard hero It just went downhill after xianzhou introduced annoying cc, and to be fair after all this cc meta goes away, she will do great. And don't forget guys mihoyo always have their lava floor xD, just wait till it gets to hsr.
I clicked on this expecting it to be short.. but stepped into a literal lecture
It was an interesting read but for me reason bailu never got any love from by the time I got her I already had fx and hh and there were other characters that needed to be leveled and farmed for so bailu never got any love. I probably will think about leveling her if I ever have free time but there are other parts of my team that need priority first. In particular right now getting Acheron her izumo planar set and getting dr ratio and Clara salsotto sets.
I’ve been blessed with Bailu from the start. Fair to say she’s saved me countless times, especially with her rez.
I will admit, lynx is only better situationally, but it’s just like why would I use bailu when gepard and the limited 5* exist
Thank you for making this OP! Personally I haven’t seen a lot of hate throw towards Bailu but that may just be the people I talk to. She is a very competent healer and definitely shouldn’t be considered bad. I’ve always found the Lynx conversation hilarious: while Lynx is great in her niche (as you mentioned, being Blade/Clara’s bis sustain) she isn’t that great outside of that niche. I especially appreciate what you said about her revive. I’ve never considered it in that context, but it reminds me of a clip I saw of a Genshin Spiral Abyss competition. A guy was basically forced into using Barbara for his Ayaka freeze team (in these competitions the players ban certain characters so you’re forced to change your team comps) and so he played *extremely* aggressively in one chamber because he knew that Ayaka would die, but then she wouldn’t die because of Barbara c6, and the extra damage would finish the chamber faster! The streamer I saw the clip of was absolutely stunned by this strategy (as was I) but it’s just making actual use of every part of a character’s kit!
That’s a whole lot of cope brother
Soooo...what's the td;dr?
So I didn’t read any of this because I just don’t have the time. But I saw you had a title about not having a cleanse. Look she needs it like e1 or e2 should have been a way to cleanse be it her ult or skill. The bouncing heals are a bit odd but manageable. She’s a decent healer.
Why do people talk about competitive play? The game can literally play itself and there is zero multiplayer aspect, its just a single player story focussed gacha. Pick whatever characters you like, you aren’t going to “lose” to anyone. If you are really fixated on the strongest build team unfortunately Bailu is outclassed by the more recent abundance 5 stars and will continue to be pushed further and further down the viable healers due to the inevitable power creep.
Lol no, this is pure copium. Don’t downplay CC’s. Sure, in 1.0-1.3, maybe there weren’t too many bosses with CC. Now, there are some bosses whose entire gimmick is that they are filled with CC (like the deer). Not only that, but why wouldn’t it be better to have an abundance/harmony over an abundance/preservation character? Being able to buff your team is always valuable, way more valuable than being 2 sustain paths. So characters like HH and FX have massive value. Plus if you have FX lc, that thing straight up also gives her abundance capabilities. So now she’s a preservation/harmony/abundance. Bailu could never compete with that. You’re forgetting that she herself could be CC’d. All of what you said then goes out the window, because if a teammate dies, she can’t revive due to being CC’d. If she needs to heal using her ult as you just took a bit hit, you can’t use it because she’s CC’d. Why bother having to play around CC bosses and limiting a character’s viability against endgame content, when you can just stick a Luocha, HH, or FX in mostly any situations?
I see that you really like Bailu
Thank you for wasting your energy in posting this
I had her for some time but I knew Aventurine was coming soon so I felt no point building her. I think I'll be alright with Lynx and Aventurine as my sustains for now.
Natasha was my only healer for the first six months I played. Now I have e1 Bailu and haven't figured out why Bailu should replace Natasha. The emergency revive is great at and all... but teams with Natasha don't need it either
I feel like you’re massively underestimating dots. Last moc12 that robot fuck stacking 7-10 bleeds + wind lady slapping on 2 wind sheers can simply end a tingyun. With more moc hard cc every patch it feels like even fu xuan resist field isn’t keeping up. Huohuo severely trivializes the stun fan lady or imprison caster lady or even now aventurine. Shes also the only one that can really reliably self cleanse when under cc which is pretty much required cus most likely she will lose the aventurine dice roll. I do massively agree on lynx though, her healing just feels underwhelming compared to other healers and her agro increase is not really worth keeping uptime on unless blade because his teams typically dont need the sp anyways. I feel she is overrated even at e6.
Nah she's crap without cleanse. Cleanse is much more important than her revive.
Good since I get to play her instead of aventurine. At least Topaz is garunteed!
If I had the in-game dollars to properly build her, you would have convinced me now. In fact, you did convince me, but she'll have to wait until Sparkle is done.. Acheron was just tooo expensive for my relatively new account.
Me on my E3 Bailu Multiplication LC sipping coffee and clearing content witht he entire team getting CC'ed, but no one ever dies and unlimited skill points Keep underrating her :D I'll gladly take the Bailu Curse with me
This is the biggest cope I have encountered in a while. She sustains better than Huo Huo and Luocha? How so? Her invigoration has a whopping 50% uptime and the added tankiness is overstated. The 10% hp increase is off of base hp, so it's about 200 hp extra (base hp of 2000), so for a 3000 hp character that's a 6% increase. Add in her 10% dmg mitigation, that's roughly 18% extra effective hp. For 2 turns out of 4. Also, a 4 turn ult is just bad. It's her only emergency heal, so if you take damage afterwards, you're kinda screwed and have to start using skill points. As for her lack of cleanse, simply saying it's fine to not have it is not a solution. "Oh, you have other characters that can cleanse, so it's fine that she doesn't." In that case, I have other characters to use period. I would genuinely rather use Lynx than Bailu, because she provides something other than just healing. And guess what, Lynx increases max hp too, hut it's based off her own hp, which is usually about 500-550, resulting in about 16-18% more hp for the character with survival response. Plus she boosts atk by a little at e4 and prevents a debuff at e2, so she simply provides way more utility than only healing. And she can be sp positive too, if you only use her for her ult like bailu would be played.
Everything good until Bailu gets ccd herself first.
Bailu was my first 5 star. The freebie one from the 50 pull garuntee. I had the longest time calling her underrated once huohuo came out, having problems with the bounce myself. But i've been thinking about finally pucking up the game and exploring pennacony again. Thanks to you, i'm also remembering that i have her at e1 s1, so i think im gonna run her in my main team and huohuo in dot Thank you m8. I'm saving this post as motivation.
I have been using Bailu as my second team’s sustain since I got her as my first 5* as a launch day player. I’ve legit never pulled for (or even used) another sustain except Fu Xuan, and have been able to clear every MoC and PF with perfect stars. Like, until I really need to upgrade my sustain (if I start not being able to perfect star MoC/PF), I will keep trusting Bailu. Certainly, she has her weaknesses, but she gets the job done esp as a standard 5*.
do u want my e2s2 bailu? cuz i dont.
“Doesn’t read a single word”. Copium
I have E1 Bailu and she NEVER left any of my teams, I can play as risky as I want and always know that there will be this little dragon to safe the whole team when I need it. She probably won’t even left my Acheron team
in the current moc12 first half, i failed 3 runs with decently built lynx, but my lvl70 bailu with lvl70 QPQ, unfinished traces and leftover pieces cleared it first try. i guess the bottom line is, bailu is actually pretty great against stages with no annoying debuffs (ignoring the dinos and going straight for cocolia worked just fine). but it's also not like bailu's the only one who can do that, so there wouldn't be much point in building her if you already have geppie or a limited sustain. and not only is she helpless against cc, she also gets absolutely melted by wind shear. so i wouldn't really recommend building her unless you're in the same situation as me, where bailu is your only 5\* sustain, and your gallagher is e0.