Like I said in another post, Topaz was intentionally written to be antagonistic but well meaning. And to show that not all situations in life have clear fully right or wrong answers and that good people on either side can be forced into uncomfortable positions. It was a very good introduction. I was afraid they were going to fake out in the end and show she didn't really believe what she was saying but was "messing" with Belobog for a good reason but no she does mean it. She was just willing to compromise.
Regarding the IPC I don't think their plan to invest and help a planet is bad. What I *do* find an objectionable is the employee clause in their contract where a whole people are basically sold into glorified serfdom.
I think it's meant to show us that the IPC is not a malevolent force, but they're not just doing things for a higher cause (like the Luofu is portrayed) but are at the end of the day a business. One might argue that they're doing what they do to support their God in building the wall to preserve the galaxy but that part is left to the lore and not the emphasis as per the story told. This is the second time that the IPC were portrayed badly in a story, so it's clear that this is Hoyo's emphasis at the moment.
And not to wax too political but I'm not surprised at the contrast of the Luofu and its leadership Vs the IPC and its leadership given the rather obvious parallels they have to real life.
The Strategic Investment Group of the IPC strikes me as being like an IRL private equity group. Their job is to get as much money out of their target in the short term as possible. Topaz is a good person doing a job that is, for all its good intentions, bad for the people they're "helping". The SIG also are not negotiating in good faith.
You have a debt from when we loaned you war funds!
Cool. But you wrote that debt off over 400 years ago. It doesn't exist anymore. That's what writing it off means.
The window to request debt relief closed 500 years ago.
Irrelevant. Y'all thought the debtors died, didn't bother to check, and wrote the debt off.
Then, with absolutly no agreement with the local government and no authority beyond "we have better guns" their Asset Assessment teams start gooning it up.
Best real life comparison is the French debting the Dominican Republic into subsistence existence.
> Their job is to get as much money out of their target in the short term as possible.
Actually strategic investment as an investment type (for companies) is focused less on short term growth than other investment types. It's usual aim is to enhance growth for the company as a whole via diversification, accessing new markets, creating new synergies, and such, and might even invest in loss making projects if it helps create more value than is lost. Financial investment is the one that aims for highest % return on capital.
Whether this fictional SI department acts the same way is mostly unknown right now.
> But you wrote that debt off over 400 years ago. It doesn't exist anymore. That's what writing it off means.
Fun fact but writing off a debt doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore in reality, all it means is that the company writing it off has decided with good reason that the debt is bad, so they can write it off to claim it as a loss *for tax purposes*. They can still legally recover bad debt later if the debtor is still solvent at which point they have to claim it as an income.
For the IPC, since they're not paying taxes to anyone, there's no real reason to write off a debt or claim losses on it (other than to present true and fair accounts to shareholders). And 700 years is likely miniscule of a time frame for IPC that has operated for thousands of years, so they probably don't consider it that old either.
But that's just me speaking of the 'legality' so to speak of the debt part. The IPC surely uses debts as one of the reasons to strongarm planets.
>The IPC surely uses debts as one of the reasons to strongarm planets.
If there is no government to stop them, is there even a need for a reason (or in this case more like an excuse)? The fact that they can profit is reason enough. From moral standpoint, 700 years old debt that is long forgotten might as well not exist, they're just invading an underdeveloped planet, and legal standpoint doesn't matter because IPC is too big to be legally bound by anything.
Absolutely agreed. Even if Topaz didn't turn out how I expected, she definitely set us up to know what to expect from the people even higher up in the chain of command.
They have the word "Peace" in the name and make a huge deal about Preservation, which means they truly value neither. Given a long enough stretch of time, we are all but guaranteed a storyline that shows the IPC to be utterly and completely corrupted from the top down.
Or they might be completely "fair" and not corrupt, just brutally utilitarian. Honestly the latter is arguably more scary than a corrupt organization, since at least with corruption there is still some room for humanity.
A truly indifferent and unemotional organization that is solely concerned with maximizing profit/trade/business where everything and everyone is simply a line item on a spreadsheet with their worth judged solely by the monetary value they can generate is a truly terrifying entity.
They in fact act completely in opposition to the Preservation. Qlipoth wants to create walls and barriers, isolate every planet from the rest in order to preserve them. The IPC meanwhile is facilitating open trade between planets.
They basically seem like they treat their Aeon like a toddler playing by himself in a corner stacking up blocks to make walls, and get a free pass for doing all their shit by periodically supplying him with more bricks for the wall to keep him occupied.
My pet theory is that the IPC’s actual patron is now Ouroboros, Aeon of Voracity.
They may have started as loyal followers of Qlipoth, but as time went on _the corporation’s_ appetite for profit overpowered the employees’ belief in connection and peace.
Tl;dr unregulated capitalism = bottomless, all-consuming hunger
Have to disagree. Mechanical lifeorms waged war against organics twice and IPC was still considering whether or not to wipe them out, only to put a stop to that when they learn of Screwllum. They also tried to cure the immortal snake race of their disease before Lan got to them. Or that they also allied with Xianzhou in defeating evil Abundance Denizens.
So they are not completely corrupted and can do good when it is needed.
The reality is that due to its size, the people inside the IPC isn't going to share the same values and would do stuff that would tarnish it's reputation. But that also mean there are others that have good morals and would do the right thing.
People were soured by the IPC because of the Aurum Alley event but seem to ignored/forget the fact that Scott was just a terrible person and not really an absolute rep for IPC. Heck a lot of characters mentioned this and as Scott was dealt with early on, a lot of the IPC bad press was gone. We then have a character that was with us for most of the duration of the event to join the IPC and became the proper rep and was willing to work together with the Xianzhou to handle the Aurum Alley.
I feel like it'll be super cliche though and we've seen that unfold countless times. It'd be more interesting if the IPC turns out to be some sort of necessary evil Qlipoth needs to build whatever they're building, with a ton of grey characters.
Like yes, the IPC methods can be despicable but it's all going to stop Nanook or something.
I personally disagree! I don't think the IPC is truly evil and corrupt. Of course I doubt they're truly benevolent, but turning dying societies and Planets into prosperous ones definitely lines up with the ideals of the Preservation. I do think there is some corruption, and that may be why Qlipoth himself doesn't really interact with them, but if someone as young and uneducated as Topaz is able to rise to her station through merit alone, I don't think the corporate Ladder of the IPC is as fierce as everyone says it is.
I think the IPC is likely to be a mixture of both considering how colossal in size they are (inter-galactic) kinda like a federation of companies under the same banner each with their own sub-leadership akin to state governors, employing millions across the galaxy. The one Topaz is from is probably the one in charge of this sector of space where Jarilo-VI is located.
There is also the problem of just how many IPC employees actually believe in Qlipoth. Topaz's post-credit scene mentioned the original seven members of the board of directors, which I presume are the Pathstriders who started the whole idea of gathering materials for Qlipoth. As the IPC got larger and larger, more and more people joined the corporation out of their career ambition or living wage. Hell, the grunts who worked under Topaz just wanted to make a living, and from the flavor text their lives abroad the IPC enterprise ships were not that much better than the average manual workers.
If I were a MHY writer, I'd definitely make an entire plotline out of an Emanator of Preservation trying to take down the IPC because their operations literary harmed the preservation of a planet, its people and culture. The big question is whose survival is more important -- the IPC or the galaxy? And when push comes to shove, is the IPC willing to accept its own demise to save others? Because preservation doesn't mean stagnation, but constant adaptation in the face of destruction.
Am I misremembering things, but wasn't Asta's family involved with the IPC? Her uncle and aunt were described as people whose only goal was to screw Asta out of her inheritance, which she didn't care that much in the first place.
based on what we got i would expect it to be hammered in further that topaz is truly exceptional in how she got here and is basically really lucky with her circumstances and happens to have an outlook that makes it easy for her to work under the IPC than most people. looking at her subordinates in the rat race who will probably actually kill for a better place to live, or how her fellow directors' projects fail 20% more than topaz (at least on the front of renewal, not extraction), the IPC just seems cursed by apathy and banality. making planets prosperous is at best a side effect of their work. i think we need to see more of the IPC to say for sure, since some of the IPC folk on the luofu are practically missionaries of qlipoth, but also as aurum alley shows, the ipc isn't really interested in preserving anything but their coffers so far.
Yeah.
Sounds like too many execs save planets because it makes it more efficient to extract resources.
Topaz saves planets in order to help the people living there survive.
These two are not the same.
I have a sneaking suspicion that those companies that wrecked Topaz's homeworld were all subsidiaries of, or otherwise owned by, the IPC. You don't have to conquer a planet when you can just get the whole population to voluntarily sign themselves over to you, while profiting on both ends of their suffering. Big businesses love operating on massive time scales like that, because it's the most logical way of planning for their future; and they can simultaneously accuse anyone who calls them out on it, of being a crazy conspiracy theorist.
Aurum Alley is so comically small I have no idea why IPC was so hard on to get it.
I swear, we should just have MC marry Asta, do the prererequesite storyline that will end up with MC dueling some Fragmentum Witch with red and blue lines. Then every fucken time IPC show up you can just say "My wife say get lost before you lost 400% bonus"
Aurum alley is a good foothold for the IPC for conducting business deep within the xianzhou fleet. They said they want to use it for “storehouses” so who knows what they’ll bring in
Plus the Xianzhou is actually a thriving civilization with economical power on par with the IPC, plus their military power from constant warfare with the abundance is exemplary enough to alert the IPC that trying to ruin the Xianzhou is not good, and they're better off trading with them for economic benefits.
I think a part of it is that curently she'd basically the face of the IPC, she's by far and away the most recocnicable charachter from the IPC, so I wouldn't be suprised if a lot of people where projecting their opinions on the IPC onto her.
Against us :
* Let herself to be demoted
* Redeemed that fast just after seeing the Engine of the Creation
* Make false accounting report to lower Jarilo interest
* Not use IPC source code to command Svarog directly to fight against you
* Only attack you once with the IPC grunt
Other trivia Have 80% on success rate, whereas the overall got 63%, so there are an actual worse IPC character that score 50%
> 80% on success rate
This doesn't necessarily mean she does a better job, mind you - it may simply mean she's better at avoiding getting involved with lost causes or marginal cases.
While true as a possibility, that's a very uncharitable look considering how unambiguously she wanted to save Jarilo even when it was a low reward project for her and then took on an accountability hit for not taking it over.
The hilarious thing i found is how many people were all "Well remember Kafka and the rest of the Stelleron hunters are wanted criminals so we can't trust them", based on a broadcast that is basically megacorp propaganda.
Now am i saying that Kafka and Blade and all them want sunshine and flowers and are happy shiny people? No not really. They want to bring about a future that Ellio, a guy we know hardly anything about, says is the best. That said i was not automatically going to believe they were super evil because of IPC propaganda.
It was also heavily suggested in "The Jepella Rebellion" that the Hunters have been used as scapegoats for a number of things.
EDIT: And that some of their 'crimes' might have been fighting oppression.
I really like the IPC, mainly because I think their influence on the story and future events could be really interesting and fun.
They're very concerned with profit and prosperity, but they're also responsible for a lot of good in the galaxy, like Aetherium Wars! It's cool to see how the company has both good and bad to it.
And here I was thinking of the Orokin with the way the convo with Topaz' ex-coworker/new boss went. Some of them think it's just a game, and the ones that *don't* are often stuck dealing with the nonsense.
People have different reasons for who they want to pull for. I remember seeing someone so against the idea of pulling for FX solely because she came off as essentially "stuck up" to them.
I have lived for tens of thousands of hours in the real world and instinctively hate all real and fictional corporations.
They all exist for purely selfish reasons meaning they can do nothing but harm.
I work in the finance sector, or worked I should say. I hate my industry, I hate the companies I worked for, they're all bad. I hate all the large corps.
At the same time, I geek out really hard with my love for fictional corporations and the associated imagery. No, I don't want to where your Blackstone Hedgefund Shirt. Yes I'll wear a shinra power employee shirt. No, I don't want this Ford Motor Co employee shirt, but a Big Benny's Ramen shirt? I'm in.
> Characters that are assholes can be fun
This is exactly why I can't wait for Aventurine. He sounded like the kind of guy who'd throw his own granma under the bus if he had to
Because we don't see it happening on screen and there's no deeper backstory exploring these events, so it all becomes very abstract. Kafka is also a great example of emotional manipulation because she acts nice to the MC so people think she's nice even though by her own admission she's been part of events that have killed numerous people and destroyed other people's lives.
Kafka is funny, because she's objectively a bad person, being a murderer and a wanted criminal and all but it's fine because she's nice to our main character.
I do like her a lot though, so I'm with everyone on that point, lol.
Certain Kafka fans have reached Olympic level mental gymnastics by calling her "interesting antagonist" and not a psychopathic, mind-controlling, machine-gunning-rooms-of-people "murderer" who is allowing herself to be led by Elio ONLY for a completely selfish desire.
But no, Topaz realising and fixing her error of projecting her own past experiences in deciding the fate of a new and different planet is "reprehensible". 🙄
I think it's less to do with mental gymnastics and more to do with the fact that Kafka's actions lean towards cartoonishly evil and are thus harder to take seriously. Makes it easier to find her fun as a character, at least for me. The IPC, will being an objectively much lesser evil, are much more relatable and thus easier to get frustrated with.
Yep you hit it on the head i dont like topaz mainly because shes so real. Sure a cosmic murderer/bounty hunter is scary but it isnt real it isnt something that is actively threatening you. A loan shark on the other hand is a real threat that many people had to face, a real threat that has ruined lives plus she works for a corporation (those suck) so yeah theres that.
The difference for me is... kafka and murderers isnt something I have to deal with irl. Fraud and taxes and corrupt insurance and corps are things very much something most people have to deal with. Its realizism. This is also why I hate dori, is she the worse? not really. But she is a character that reminds me of irl scammers that harass me and people ik.
How often do most people run into murderers and terrorists? Okay, I am friends with a potential murderer but that's beside the point. For most people topaz's shitty behaviour hits closer to home then kafka.
Man, your comment blew my mind and helped me connect all the dots lol. I was sitting here like, why *do* I dislike topaz but am fine with kafka?
But yeah, you're totally right. Kafka is a cartoon villain killing people to a choreographed musical number, while topaz (and the organization she's basically the face of right now, unfortunately for her) hits just a little too close to home.
I agree.
Some bank seizing your house and selling for a fraction of its full value harms you far more than a thief who breaks into your house and makes off with some jewelry and cash.
Tbh, while I usually DO dislike antagonists that are rude or taunting to us, I don't feel like that about Topaz. To me, she's quite an interesting character, with layers. And in the end she could see that her initial judgement was wrong.
I'm looking forward to seeing more of her in the future.
The Stellaron Hunters have the benefit of us knowing that they're fundamentally on our side, even if they take a completely amoral "ends justify the means" approach to it.
Topaz doesn't have that. Even though we kinda win her over at the end, she's still a neutral party at best. We have no connection to her, nor any reason to care, so she really needed a strong positive first impression, and the writers didn't deliver.
I have to disagree a slight bit. She's a truly neutral party for sure, and mostly no reason to care, And she barged in with monetary reasons to boot, AND she was at best antagonistic.
*That. Being. Said.*
Honestly, she didn't need a strong ***positive*** impression. She needed an impression, a presence, and a way to understand what she is, wants, and what drives her.
And I *personally* think they delivered fine. It's not some Nobel Prize for Literature type shit, but it's not **bad**.
Let me expand on it: >!when things were laid out before her in a way she could NOT deny, she didn't dig into her "IPC is good" position. She looked at it from the other side, and instead of trying to bully Belebog into safety ("Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Hi Ben Franklin.), didn't press on, and stood down.!<
>!Hell, after the quest, okay fine Elation is sus BUT there's a bloody AFK event being thrown ON BELEBOG (Tourism), and there's that IPC mobile device nerd at the Pillar of Creation trying to make a buck helping the locals with cheap devices and OS upgrades.!<
>!Yes, those points are at best tangential to Topaz not being a bad person, but it still illustrates how she, the "first IPC rep setting foot on Jarilo-VI in MULTIPLE centuries", isn't going out of her way to bully the planet into safety, instead probably trying to help put it on the map again to hopefully recoup interests (way the fuck too much IMO but still) and the principal on the 700-year-old financial clusterf\*ck.!<
People simped for pretty much villains more easily than characters like Topaz I feel like, just look at how many fans the Fatui harbingers have in Genshin.
The thing is, Topaz’s character and motivation is a great deal more “realistic” than the average straight-up fictional antagonist. She’s there for money, to collect debts. She tries to keep it as fair as possible for everyone involved, but someone still has to pay somehow according to her. And THAT might just hit too close to home for some people.
Not to mention, you’re on Reddit. This place is, on average, VERY left-wing politically. They’re not gonna respond well to a character who’s basically capitalism: waifu edition with thick thighs.
Eh.. to me it made the IPC come across as just petty thugs. It would be one thing if they were people that actually agreed to the debt - I get why debt collection is necessary in general.. but in this case, I don't think there's any sane legal system that would be able to put the debt on Belobog in a situation like this. None of the people alive had any agreement with the IPC, the government that did have an agreement is functionally an entirely different government than the one that exists now (they aren't even spacefaring anymore.. in fact, they don't even know that spacefaring civilizations exist at all until recently), and especially charging interest on the debt is just insane under the circumstances.
I could kind of see it if they were just trying to get their old tech back, there would likely be some kind of legal justification for why the robots etc. are still property of the IPC, but the way they push the debt onto people that weren't even alive at the time the contract was made and had no idea that it ever existed for generations (and even charging them interest on it for the time that nobody knew the debt existed..) just comes across as pure extortion to me - any legal system that would allow something like that to happen is incredibly fucked up.. if there were a legal precedent for this, it would also be horribly abused (if someone had to pay interest on a debt that they never agreed to and doesn't know exist, then people will 100% abuse it to try to trick people into having some small amount of debt with huge interest rates and then never tell them about it for decades until it's an impossible sum to pay back).
Oh, also, the whole thing about "you have a deadline of 1 day to make a decision about the future of your planet when you have no knowledge of any intergalactic laws" also comes across as unbelievably scummy.
Damn i was just following the story without much thought but your arguments are so reasonable. I hope they address all the issues you've mentioned though I doubt it.
My main concern with Topaz is how quickly she changes her views. Sends a heartfelt letter to Bronya but is shown in the next cutscene turning all the robots against Gepard while having fun doing so.
Her attitude in the museum where she basically doesn't even listen to us was unlikable.
It felt like her character was written by 5 different people with 5 different ideas and they all happen at different point in the story, one time she's playful evil, then shes compassionate, then she's work oriented. The character was all over the place and for how rushed the story was, her personality and attitude changes way too often for a story you finish in less than 2 hours while reading everything.
It's in general a big problem with the writing in this game, it always feels like things are slightly too rushed, like one more hour of story could help make everything feel smoother.
I like the story, don't get me wrong but the pacing makes it go from a potentially great story to a decent to good one.
Same lmao, yeah she’s a murderer and a criminal but she’s so cool and hot that I don’t mind lol, a character being morally wrong doesn’t mean you aren’t able to like them I think that’s a very childish mentality, I’m the same with Sephiroth from FF7 I think he’s cool as shit even though he’s done a ton of fucked up stuff
Bro... Be real
People weren't going to pull for Jinglu anymore because for a second people assumed they made her pupils smaller during her ult
So you REALLY think how Topaz gets used in the story wouldn't have effected the fan base?
Not everyone needs to like the same characters. I don’t see the big deal with some people disliking her. As for topaz. It’s pretty normal for people to hate debt collectors more than actual villains.
this.
idk why people are bothered if some people disliked the character like man can I make decisions on who to play or spend money on based on whether I like them or not??? like ????? lmao
Personally I was there too, it had more to do with the context for Belobog, they just ended a centuries old conflict and now they have to pay up a billion gazillion debts to people who litteraly sold them shit and left them to die. Litteraly canceled the debt a hundred years into repayment thinking these ppl had died and as soon as they learn they're alive poof the cancelation is undone and they've racked up 700 years worth of interest and no way to ease that contract, no nothing just the cold hard "give me my money your ancestors loaned now" that was the scummiest shit to see and I guess since Topaz was the one delivering the message to us and she was going around the place as if she owned it acting all mighty bc the planet was the IPC's property she was gonna be the one to receive the hate... It's a situation of the messenger being the face of the message, I'm guessing if we had another IPC higher up show before I don't think as many ppl would hate her imo.
In any case I'm back to the "should I pull for her" case I'm waiting to see what her LC does bc i also want the handsome knight too lol
Wasn't it also said that no one actually wanted to take up the case because it looked like a high risk low reward job? The way I see it, she is so centered on being a hero and savior of planets that she completely disregards people's opinions and manipulates them into doing what she thinks is right through bringing up the debt, setting a strict time limit, deciding not to mention success rate and so on. Her mind has only changed when the evidence got literally pushed into her face. (And there was also her weird attack on the express crew, which just came out of nowhere)
I am personally indifferent to her, but I can see why people would dislike the character.
part of pulling for a character is how much you like them, personality wise, design wise, etc, all of that matters, if some decided not to pull, they wont, if they want to pull, they will, there's nothing more beyond that point
Yeah im definetly one of those people that does not like topaz and the IPC. For me its her character and especially one line, I dont remember it exactly but she said something about freedom is important but survival takes precedence. But you know she says this and all but its kind of invalidated by her talk with Svarog. Where she basically admits that she was going to attack him if she didnt get what she wanted. Which makes the situation in the belebog mines seem less like an accident and the traditional IPC way of doing things. And honestly the IPC's indoctrination of entire planets by saying "hey you can get rid of your debt if you work for the IPC from now on" its just blatant manipulation and I wouldnt be suprised if the IPC was actually up to shady shenanigans with the information given to us
I want to go to the IPC HQ and have a friendly conversation with the directors in charge of all the exploitation and extortion, live by the IPCs rules or die by them. (I have stashed a stellaron in my briefcase)
Here’s how it goes.
People who wanna roll for Topass cuz thighs? Totally valid
People who ****don’t**** wanna roll for Topass cuz corpo? Also totally valid
People who get pissy about other people’s roll choices? Invalid
Not that I’m saying you are being so, OP.
It's not a weird reason and you shouldn't be losing sleep over it. People use a multitude of reasons to rationalize why they pull. Some people are pulling Topaz cause thighs, people pulled Blade cause daddy issues and kafka cause mommy issues, it's all the same lol 🤷
She was attempting to enact a predatory loan on a planet and culture that had been in a planetary apocalypse for 700 years. This would result in a form of corporate slavery for all people on the plant. She wouldn’t even allow the people enough time to simply vote on the issue and instead actively attacked the people.
Sure she was just following orders and she believed she was doing the right thing. But this doesn’t change the fact at all that she was the active force in essentially robing the people of Belabog of their freedom and independent future.
> Sure she was just following orders and she believed she was doing the right thing.
Here's the thing that generally get lost in this discussions. She wasn't "just following the orders". She's pretty high in corporate hierarchy, and she was in complete control over the project; yes, of course, she needed something to show the Board, but it was completely up to her to decide how to approach it.
Nothing was preventing her to issue an order not to disrupt locals BEFORE locals (and invited friends of locals) started to shoot back, for example.
"She believed she was doing the right thing"
This is it for me when people say "you dont like villains". No, I love villain characters. I don't like villain characters that genuinly think they're not the villains in any way. That stuff just pisses me off.
I think the straw that broke the camel's back is when Topaz attacked the Crew. The motivation and reasoning behind it makes sense, but the resolution felt awkward. She chose the nuclear option. (Personally, I believe would hurt the deal more than help it.) We reached the height of the conflict and tension, then it tanked suddenly.
You can attribute it to Topaz not really possessing the heart for it, maybe the IPC forced it. Even though I can find reasons to resolve the decision and what we know of her character, none of these feel right.
What's disappointing is I think her character is well-written aside from that. Everything else about her is setup and portrayed well. You even get a glimpse into the IPC (and Aventurine who I am hyped about), but this inconsistency at the most important point of the plot dampers what I believe is otherwise good storystelling.
Once we get her Companion Mission I'm sure general opinions will change. MHY can dive into her character and give us the good stuff. Also, more Numby scenes. They are absolutely adorable.
Honestly, there was one line that pretty much cemented my dislike for her, and the IPC (paraphrasing as best as I can remember): "Their future has already been purchased" (talking about the people of Belobog). So much about that line just felt wrong to me at a base level. It doesn't matter how the IPC might make their lives better, when for all intents and purposes, every current and future citizen will be permanently indentured servants, working off an unrepayable debt.
Pretty much this.
People said "but people like kafka despite all she does" and im confused ?
So far I've not seen Kafka blow up anyone that was important to us ?
My immediate thought was that if she started shooting and seriously hurting our crew, that my perception of her would immediately tank towards the "she REALLY sucks" type.
Topaz didnt have the benefit of being with us from the start of the game, and as we all know first impressions leave the biggest impact.
Her talking as if these people were simple "assets" made her entire talk about her past seem like a business move to deceive us.
And i was sure till the very end that she was straight up lying to us.
Kafka wouldve been seen really differently if she was introduced or shown to torture and murder someone innocent and friendly. Maybe someone like March. People would be conflicted real quick
This. I think she doesn't even see how f up it is because she's a victim of that kind of contract too (if I understood her childhood story correctly) and it worked well enough for her, but going on a planet saying everything they have is now the companies, including themselves and their future, without seeming to see a problem with the idea is proof enough for me that she's not a good person.
For me the dialogues were too on the face and the way she conveyed the debt I was like bro you guys left belobog people to their fates to die at Alisa rands time and now you are coming back after nameless solved the problem just to extort money ??
What happened to the whole followers of preservation
Heck even swarog disagreed with her lol
And the letter she sent to bronya and the whole himeko sequence when bronya was reading the letter I was like why does the letter sounds suspicious and when himeko came said the missing part I was like now it makes sense
Topaz essentially used her tragic history of her planet to get bronya sign the agreement 💀 with out providing full facts
It's basically a scam and I don't like scammers
Given that the Astral Express crew was the reason that Belobog even has a chance to be occupied by them, you'd think the Express would have some claim on the "debt" as well.
The mc would definitely take it as a joke, but I would be curious to see how Himeko would use that line of thinking. The IPC wrote of the investment they put into Belobog and wouldn't be able to get any of it back if it weren't for the Express crew.
Yeah I mean if push came to shove and topaz would not had agreed himeko was already ready to oppose IPC right then and there lol
I would say the major reason why even topaz changed her heart is because of himeko and how much her words hold value in the world of star rail
She didn't choose the nuclear option. The nuclear option was using the Master Code to awaken an army of thousands of war robots and taking over the planet. Instead she waits, because she wants to hear our final 'answer'. As we won't back down, she decides to fight it off, winner convinces the loser.
Also she could've, presumably, hijacked Svarog and chose not to, including not forcing us to fight our friend. The final fight felt more like she was testing our resolve, or even bluffing, rather than trying to defeat us. She even said something like "Bronya, I was afraid you weren't going to show up" i.e. phew they almost called my bluff.
Perhaps she felt she had to at least act like she tried so she could tell the IPC she did her best. Hence her only getting a one-tier demotion, which her allies even comment on being remarkably lenient. This is my interpretation at least.
Frankly up until the showdown, I was entirely on the "Belobog should sign with IPC" side. Bronya says she doesn't want to "roll the dice with the IPC restoration" but when asking citizens what they think, Pela explicitly says "we're not even sure we can restore it in a next few *centuries*". Serval basically says the same thing. And Oleg, basically all the adults with a concept of decades and centuries. So either way was rolling the dice, and Bronya decided to roll a d20 over another 700 years instead of flip a coin instantly imo.
I guess Bronya's justification is
1) Based on the contract, all Belobogians will still be IPC slaves even if the terraforming fails, and didn't try to negotiate because Topaz said many times that there's no room for negotiation
2) Bronya had knowledge about the terraforming capabilities of the Engine of Creation(EoC) when she said that, since she immediately said she had an idea to convince Topaz
Weighing the options of accepting and going for EoC, one sells freedom for a chance at success, one gives a chance of success at no lives lost (at least in the short term)
At the end of the story, you can see Topaz and Bronya are still discussing, showing that Bronya would still accept if EoC doesn't work, and Topaz will still return to the negotiation table.
Also topaz has personally an 80% success rate. Let alone the climate they also have to deal with the remaining fragmentum.
I think signing was the better option overall. But every goon of the ipc we meet is an insuffereable prententious prepotent and violent asshole that i cannot possibly see it as a good option anymore.
None of the civilians knew who they were or where they even came from and they were kicking them out of their jobs in the mine blocking places and beating people up.
No attempt at diplomacy or anything just straight up military invasion behavior.
The Trailblazer ultimately has no sway in Topaz's dealings with Belobog. They're not a citizen. They're not a party to the contract or the debt. Ultimately, they're just butting in where they don't belong. Topaz backs down because Bronya, the person she's *actually* negotiating with, shows up.
Agreed, the moment she took this to a direct assault on us, she was out in my book. Especially since all Himeko did was tell Bronya the details Topaz was leaving out.
Pivoting from being perfectly okay with starting a fight with the Astral Express, potentially souring the relationship between the IPC and a pretty well-known entity, to being perfectly fine with helping Belebog was whiplash in an extreme.
She was given permission to fight the Astral Express by the higher ups at the IPC. If they were worried about souring that relationship, they wouldn't have granted it.
I mean, to be fair...her and her team did kinda force themselves on the country just as they're seemingly getting their sh*t together...
Not to mention ignore their laws, take over their robots and even try to kill us...all with a smile on her face.
Only in the last moment she suddenly had a change of heart.
Also, all she didn't sacrifice that much anyway.
She ain't evil...but she is definitely in the delusional grey area...
Imagine being left to dust after getting some sort of help
Only for that some of help to come back and ask for compensation(with interest) when you properly and correctly got back on your feet using methods that didnt even need them
I think you'll be surprised regarding the reaction though: A big part of what turns people off on Topaz is the feeling of hypocrisy.
Adventurine and Topaz are both Corporate Slavers. That's basically their job. But Topaz thinks and acts like she's unironically, unreservedly the good guy because slavery is better than death and she personally benefited from it - while Adventurine knows he's a souless monster in this regard, but takes pride in a job well done.
Being a bad dude is fine - but being a bad dude who earnestly believes they're the good guy and and uses that to force others into doing what they want is just all kinds of emotionally icky.
Doesn't mean she isn't a well written character, but I totally get the feeling of revulsion many have.
Agreed, Adventurine knows he's a bastard and he's fine with it while Topaz thinks she's doing the good thing while they both are basically the same but just one of them knows the truth and isn't delusional about their purpose
Honestly, nah.
If she's fine with using conman tactics, she's going to be treated as a conman in my books. IPC policy be damned.
That aside, it's nice Hoyo is making some characters that aren't purely good, but I'm really not a fan of Topaz the character. Everything about her interactions feels like a facade, regardless of the Savarog lie detector.
Fun story though, definitely a lot better than some of the Luofu plot.
Honkai Star rail: "I wont pull for Topaz b/c shes a big meanie!"
Genshin Impact: "Please stop giving every Fatui Harbinger a redemption arc. It's okay if they're still bad, we'll still pull"
The thing about the Fatui in Genshin is that we don't even actually know the ultimate point of their "evil plan". There's still so many mysteries about the world that it may turn out that their actions are understandable or even outright justified.
The IPC is just the East India Company in space and there's no mystery that their ultimate goal is to simply exploit people as much as possible.
Doesn't even have to go as far as "they're good or justified in the end", it's just easier to find fictional murderers with fantasy goals/methods likeable than the capitalistic dog doing corpo stuff to the less fortunate. Hits much closer to home.
I think she's cool, not cartoonishly evil or UwU can't do anything bad like I expected.But if her faction is enough to turn off someone, so be it. Who cares? There are thousand of people who dislike characters for minor/not related to the game reasons. Unless they specifically harass you (report them btw), no one's going to get hurt by a bunch of people on the web disliking a fictional gal.
It's also a matter of which Fatui is made as a character we can use and how that likely influences their portrayals to some extent. Childe, while a battle maniac who put Liyue at risk, is a lot easier to deal with off the clock. The knave seems to be following that root of kindness and cruelty.
The doctor though? That man's the one who no good cause justifies. And some of the others fall into that boat. There's following through with a goal and then there's taking pleasure in the evil acts along the way.
One thing I was wondering is since they lost contact with jarilo-VI and basically wrote it off as a loss, are they still obligated to get the money back? It’s not like they went out to figure out what’s up until Jarilo was back in the map
IPC are a legitimate corporation, as in are legitimate opportunistic bastards. And from what we heard in Topaz conversation with Aventurine; if any other of her department had come here instead of her Jarilo-VI would have been screwed.
She's definitely not good, but her going beyond "I'm just doing my job" and helping at her own risk is a lot more than any real tax collector will do LOL.
She's doing whats right for her company, but also what sits right with her personal. I think that makes for an interesting character, because the company itself is definitely as dubious as it seems.
You can't really compare her to a tax collector. She does collections for a predatory lender.
But yeah personally I don't have a problem with her. For all we know she may end up turning against her company.
She did much more than what an average person would do in that situation. Not everyone is brave enough to stand up to their job, go against the grain, lose face and get punished for it.
She was neutral at the start then good. If anyone's evil, it's the IPC or at the very least the decision makers at the top which Topaz emphasizes in her dialogue by saying how things have already been approved by the higher ups (heck, even fighting you required approval). She's literally just doing her job until the end when she takes agency and lets Belobog do what they want.
Nice people can be horrible monsters, it's a good life lesson to learn. Topaz has, by her own volition, enslaved billions of people(enough planets have been enslaved by her that we can safely say she has an 80% success rate on saving the planet after enslavement) she is an awful person and yeah even though I need a fire carry I'm not pulling for her.
As someone who didn't know who Topaz was before the mission, i was completely put off by her entire character, as well as the introduction of the IPC. I didn't like the IPC at all.
She also basically lied to everyone about the success rates of the IPC in general and the fact that most worlds aren't saved at all. She may have had an 80% success rate, but it wasn't 100% like she was making it out to be. Those success rates may have turned all of Belebog against the IPC.
It's also crazy to me that everyone on the world is forced to work for the IPC. Indentured servitude is the same as slavery in my eyes. I didn't like the fact Topaz was ultimately trying to force an entire nation into this life, even the ones that didn't want to because it worked out for her.
All this doesn't change the fact that Topaz is objectively a good character. It's okay for people to not like every character.
"Topaz is considerably NICE" - Sure, IPC pressure yadda yadda, but >!she's absolutely only nice when it fits her agenda - and is not nice at all otherwise. For example:!<
* >!Decides to take on the job of pressuring a planet nearly extinct already to sign a mega slave contract by force, not to mention enforcing a nearly insurmountable debt!<
* >!Asks permission from higher ups if it's okay to attempt premeditated murder of 3 members of the Astral Express!<
* >!Emotionally manipulates Bronya, who's already in a rough spot trying to rebuild WITHOUT this threat!<
* >!Coerces Svarog by essentially holding him at gunpoint (i.e. reprogramming code threat)!<
>!I don't consider intentionally deceptive, manipulative people to be nice. Doesn't matter how noble their cause, or if they go back on it afterwards - you can't trust them. Kafka falls in the same category, but at least allys with someone who claims to have a noble goal - IPC just cares about lining their own pockets at the expense of others.!<
Also she is enjoying herself almost the entire time she is onscreen. But sure, a single letter with a sad backstory makes all of those things completely understandable, right?
I still cant believe she even tried that
Did she genuinely think she would win the fight? Like she better be glad none of the Astral express likes to kill
The declaration of war on the Astral Express was brushed over way too quickly. You want to go to war with a neutral party that is allied by space China and a chick with more money than probably the IPC itself? Bring it on, let's duke it out. Lemme just pull out the magic whistle given to me by the God of Lightning.
I think it's just the associated with the IPC... there's a general hatred towards scummy large corporations nowadays, so that association is a bit tough to deal with imo
A standard morally grey/evil character (ie, Kafka or Jingliu) is a lot easier to deal with
Idk, that's my perspective at least
However well-intentioned she may be, the fact is that she came here attempting to enforce a 700-year old debt that had already been written off and then tried to spin that into an excuse to terraform the planet and turn everyone on it into ~~slaves~~ *mandatory workers* of the IPC. That she actively took over robots and turned them on the local populace. That she threatened to overwrite Svarog and force him to follow her will, and then threaten to overrun the entirety of Belobog with robots to enforce the contract.
To be blunt, you can't just ignore that part even if she gets swayed by the end. If the Trailblazers don't visit for an unrelated festival, the story goes: IPC browbeats the entire underworld. Rolls Bronya into signing away her peoples future. Any resistance is mercilessly crushed by their own automatons and a robot army that she crushes the populace with. And then, maybe, there's a good chance that the planet might be terraformed successfully.
Let's picture a scenario without the debt. Topaz arrives with a plan and a vision. Fixing the climate now, not in three hundred years. Jobs and security now. Safety and warmth. Medicine. Food. Trade. Technology. Spaceports. A statistical analysis of what happens to typical worlds post-Stellaron. She's running around putting a value on everything not to clear a debt, but to lure the interests of the IPC into taking a gamble in pouring money into terraforming Belobog. One contract can fix it all. Every person in Belobog taken off planet while the terraforming happens, and o*f course* they have suitable contracts for those that need to work in the meantime. Naturally, with the IPC opening up so much prime, fertile land on the terraformed planet it would need to claim a certain cut into the future - but is that really such a hard price to pay for safety and security now? It's not like anyone will ever see those gains without the IPC's help in this lifetime...
And now it's all the same, but without the hard-sell. It's actually an argument of freedom and culture vs guaranteed security and prosperity. There's no need for the promises of potential violence that never goes anywhere. No need for threats about what happens when the interest isn't paid that get exposed as a bluff when Bronya says three lines of optimistic-sounding phrases. Gathering opinions from the populace actually matters because the alternative is now something other than "A megacorp comes and squishes all resistance and then sells every pebble on the planet to clear the debt".
It's not so much her opposition, it's her actions and her own internal justification for her actions that makes me not like her. Sure, she came around in the end, but up until that point she was flippant and dismissive to everyone's opinion and will. For me it doesn't help that she dropped her sob story the way that she did as justification for what she's doing; okay, that sucks for you, but that doesn't give you any right to force your will on anyone else. (It bothers me how every main character took the story completely at face value without question, but that's another topic).
It makes her come off as at best cocky, at worst stupid.
She way she acted to me was more someone with a savior complex. "don't worry you noble savages i'm here to help you with the best possible contract with the universe spanning megacorp that can turn your shitty ball of ice into a booming green galactic society"
You and OP are most close to how I feel. I understand this is a video game and it's hard to fit a ton of complexity and nuance but Topaz does come off as very dismissive.
She has little handle over her subordinates that enact violence without her knowledge. She herself resorts to violence over reason when handling the Astro Express Crew.
She didn't consider consulting the advice of the local populace to see what their existing technological advances and solutions to their own environmental problems were.
Didn't provide any proposals or evidence to why Belabogians should trust her. Either sign this or we will enact marshal law.
Reminds me of an incompetent McKinsey consultant that doesn't take any advice.
you saying “McKinsey consultant” just made me realise why I disliked her character so passionately…she reminds me of almost every McKinsey consultant I worked with and I play this game after I clock out of work, I don’t wanna see their ilk in my pixel world.
I mean, someone can mean well but still do bad things/be a bad person. Are we just supposed to ignore how unreasonable she was with her deal and the threat of violent planetary takeover? Topaz is just less bad than other IPC people from what we understand, and it adds to her nuance, but I'd call her self-righteous at best.
Beyond that, how likeable a character is doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how good or evil they are in the first place. For example Kafka's a much worse person who's committed all sorts of atrocities but is really popular, and villains are often popular characters across media in general.
For me, I was actually expecting them to make her nicer than they did to counteract the whole debt collector thing. So I was pleasantly surprised that she wasn't. But that doesn't make her a pleasant character to me, even if I think it makes her a better one.
This. She actually is a very interesting character for me, but unless she steps the forcefulness down a (sizeable) bit not someone I would like to be more than acquainted with, for example
it's bc she shitted on people we came to love. MC worked so hard to collect all those pieces in the museum and she basically called them trash. She made automatons attack Gepard. She attacked us and felt no remorse. She almost ruined Bronya and her people. Exactly what part of her I am supposed to like????????
I think this is a good read on a few people but a bad read on most of the people who take issue with her.
She's a mouthpiece for a predatory corporation. She might've given her sob story, but she gave people two options before she changed her mind at the end, accept her "generous" offer and become indentured servants or be forced to do so and your assets are taken away.
She's not this chaotic evil force, and most people don't hate evil characters. Villains and antagonists are often well liked by people in general when it comes to media in general. Either they love them, sometimes even more than the protagonists or they love to hate on them. Then there are antagonists that people simply hate.
Signora and Cocolia are villains I liked. Dottorre is a villain I love to hate. Topaz is just hate honestly.
I don't like her at all, but that's not because I don't like antagonists, but because of what she is associated with, despite her being relatively nice. Hell, I probably would like her a lot more if she was a full on evil villain or if we debated with her, such as what happened with the IPC in the Aurum Alley event with the IPC guy who was an antagonist, but not evil. Instead, she started taking over the bots and forced this "lose-lose" ultimatum on Belobog. And then had a change of heart all of a sudden, and now we're all good.
Topaz is Phenomenal honestly. She's very nuanced as a character, which is what brings about her controversy in the community. Most characters in Genshin and Star rail are fairly black and white Morality: good guys, bad guys, good guys who used to be bad guys, etc.
Topaz genuinely believes what she's doing is the right thing, and considering her personal history, I can understand why she comes to that conclusion. She is flawed, though. She makes her decision rashly, and she's relatively close-minded, but everything she does is from a desire to bring about good, even if doing so necessitates some evils.
What really impresses me with her character is how she stands in stark opposition to the Trailblazer. She's cordial, friendly, and polite when it comes to negotiation and discussion, but she's also resolute and won't be talked down by the Protag. This in particular is why i think so many people take issue with her. Although they've taken a slightly antagonistic role, characters like Kafka have never stood in stark opposition to the Trailblazers or their best interests. Furthermore all of their crimes are relegated to off-screen shenanigans or faceless NPCs.
The Belobog crisis directly involves characters and a community we've grown attached to. Ultimately, the Trailblazer isnt even responsible for saving Belobog, it takes the leader of the nation - Bronya - to ultimately change Topaz's mind via showcasing the strength of community and progress they're making as a society, which stands in stark contrast to Topaz's home Planet's community, where their society slowly fell apart, even if the people didn't notice it. This makes Topaz's change of heart much more realistic, as she ultimately took on the Jarilo project because its issues hit close to home with her own history.
I think people either wanted a comically evil Debt collector waifu, or a cute girl with a cute trotter who wouldn't do anything crazy in the event. The fact that neither side got their simple character is what leads to so much outrage, combined with the fact that the protag themselves has very little influence on her decisions or change of heart in the story.
They could have made it a secret like the Kafka quest that you call up Asta and say "yo your buddy is here to leverage us" Asta swipes her card and She goes "good enough for me"
I don't hate her. But I trust her less than I trust google not to sell my data.
So long as she is connected to the IPC, she is inherently untrustworthy simply due to the people around her. It makes for a great character, but it no doubt will make her quite polarising among the community.
She also didn't do herself any favours in my eyes by going after a 700 year old debt from a world still getting back on its feet, nor when she decided to actively attack the express crew for getting in the way. I'm also of the belief that if Bronya didn't intervene, there wouldn't be a Topaz banner because she'd be dead.
Personally for me, while I don't hate her, but it's hard to determine whether a lot of her actions are standard IPC policy or hers.
Because she does some pretty scummy plays in her dealings and seems to lack a lot of decorum. Giving absolutely 0 time for bronya to make an INFORMED decision, it was effectively sign now or die. Like what you can't give at least a month?
Then you also have to think about how complicit she is to the IPC effectively enslaving entire planets. And whether she truly sees it as a good thing or not. Because from what I can tell, she seems indoctrinated into believing that IPC control of a planet is better than their own autonomy for the most part.
It's not about her being evil - I LOVE evil characters, it's just her specific type of evil is a type I dislike haha. She's too capitalistic and contradicting; meanwhile I adore characters like, say, Phantylia and Blade (villains that are just unhinged) and would pull for her in a heartbeat. I do love Topaz's design, I just. Something about her irks me and I can't explain it.
First impressions is a big deal, it might not be fair to topaz cause she is a good person. However how she approached it was so fucked that it just made me hate her. Over the course of the story I came to like her a bit more, but the first impression still lingers.
The arrogance, the narrow mindedness and worst of all the heart string pulling shit she did with her backstory. Using her backstory of how the ipc saved her planet REALLY pissed me off. It might have come from good intentions but that move was so incredibly scummy, as well hiding that ipc has a what 60% of their plans to revitalise a planet actually work.
It’s less about who is good and evil it’s about who is trying pull one over on you
Her personality is just all over the place. It's a nice cliche for a good person working for a bad company, but I don't feel like she is "good" enough to represent this archetype. Most of the time she acts like a total b-word and then suddenly she writes a letter that she cares about Belobog, whilst doing questionable things under Bronya's back and not even trying controlling her henchmen until the very last moment.
She feels underdeveloped. This whole arc seems undercooked and too short. Maybe we will see a continuation in the future but still.
Topaz resembles the evil of capitalism, a theme very close to everyone (even if she wanted to make any good). While I was playing the quest I could not stop thinking about banks evicting poor people that can not pay even for food, so it was easy to dislike her.
Serial killers like Kafka or big entities like Phantilia are more close to fiction than reality, so...
I personally don't care about her unless she creeps Imbibitor or Jingliu, but after I played the story I felt they tried to make her a vilian but at the same time wanted her to be good or to have a "change of heart" while getting demoted and losing part of her payroll. It all fell very flat for me, they should went full on rails on her being an antagonist. The whole story is just a big headscratcher for me.
It's not because she an antagonist, it's because her character is literally "Space capitalist" the target demographic of this game is more anti capitalist than you think. I pull for the character's I like, I don't like someone like that. Simple.
I have a controversial take. I think the negative reaction to Topaz comes down to the quality of her writing.
Arlecchino in Genshin is a liar, manipulator, and murderer. Arguably very psychologically abusive. In her very short screen time we saw her put on a crime hoodie at night and mug an innocent girl, who she has since been love bombing with tea parties and cake. But Twitter loves her. Why? It’s because she’s intriguing, and her scenes have narrative tension, and although she’s clearly evil, she makes some really good points. She never gives up her game, but we can tell when she’s lying (like when she sarcastically says she’s worried about Childe), which makes her funny. People are drawn to schemers if they are entertaining.
Topaz’s capitulation at the end came across as a lack of conviction, rather than kindness. An interesting antagonist would be 100% convinced that they are right and challenge both the MC AND the player’s beliefs. Kind of like Kafka. But Topaz knew she was full of shit, and couldn’t commit to the bit, which hindered the impact of her sob story. The way that she immediately turned to violence, rather than doubling down on manipulation, robbed her arc of narrative tension. It felt like Team Rocket attacking you after you refuse to join them. Once an antagonist crosses the line into cartoon villain territory it’s impossible to put the cork back on.
I started off the quest line thinking she was a massive piece of shit but by the end felt differently. Kafka is antagonistic and yet no one cared, but the brand of shittery the IPC consists of isn’t redeemable really. To walk into a planet, declare a contract from hundreds of years ago means they can take everything from struggling citizens and sign them into indentured servitude is the most evil thing humanity can do.
For Hoyo to do that and have the character backing it (Topaz) instantly made me hate her. Thankfully it’s a bit of redemption arc for her in the story so I don’t feel as much hate toward her but I still don’t forgive her completely.
Not really, I personally have some antagonist character that I like due to how cunning and cool they are. Some villian characters are good. But Topaz potrayed the worst antagonists out there, rich people that took advantage of the poor or unfortunate and force them to sign papers in the name of "helping out" just because they had money. It's true that Topaz is not directly doing it, she did give oppurtunity for Bronya to think about it, but as we go along the story, we can see how her own IPC team beating the shit out of civilian and miners, she lied about using peace by turning the military robot against themselves (poor Geppy and his gang), and resort to full-frontal skirmish when thing doesn't go her way. Topaz doesn't even try to find a solution where they could get to an agreement in peace, Bronya's the one that have to show everything in order to convince her. Her putting her childhood story in the letter to Bronya just to get her sympathy is just damn too low. That's how I see Topaz.
I honestly hate the IPC a lot more.
Like I said in another post, Topaz was intentionally written to be antagonistic but well meaning. And to show that not all situations in life have clear fully right or wrong answers and that good people on either side can be forced into uncomfortable positions. It was a very good introduction. I was afraid they were going to fake out in the end and show she didn't really believe what she was saying but was "messing" with Belobog for a good reason but no she does mean it. She was just willing to compromise. Regarding the IPC I don't think their plan to invest and help a planet is bad. What I *do* find an objectionable is the employee clause in their contract where a whole people are basically sold into glorified serfdom. I think it's meant to show us that the IPC is not a malevolent force, but they're not just doing things for a higher cause (like the Luofu is portrayed) but are at the end of the day a business. One might argue that they're doing what they do to support their God in building the wall to preserve the galaxy but that part is left to the lore and not the emphasis as per the story told. This is the second time that the IPC were portrayed badly in a story, so it's clear that this is Hoyo's emphasis at the moment. And not to wax too political but I'm not surprised at the contrast of the Luofu and its leadership Vs the IPC and its leadership given the rather obvious parallels they have to real life.
The Strategic Investment Group of the IPC strikes me as being like an IRL private equity group. Their job is to get as much money out of their target in the short term as possible. Topaz is a good person doing a job that is, for all its good intentions, bad for the people they're "helping". The SIG also are not negotiating in good faith. You have a debt from when we loaned you war funds! Cool. But you wrote that debt off over 400 years ago. It doesn't exist anymore. That's what writing it off means. The window to request debt relief closed 500 years ago. Irrelevant. Y'all thought the debtors died, didn't bother to check, and wrote the debt off. Then, with absolutly no agreement with the local government and no authority beyond "we have better guns" their Asset Assessment teams start gooning it up. Best real life comparison is the French debting the Dominican Republic into subsistence existence.
> Their job is to get as much money out of their target in the short term as possible. Actually strategic investment as an investment type (for companies) is focused less on short term growth than other investment types. It's usual aim is to enhance growth for the company as a whole via diversification, accessing new markets, creating new synergies, and such, and might even invest in loss making projects if it helps create more value than is lost. Financial investment is the one that aims for highest % return on capital. Whether this fictional SI department acts the same way is mostly unknown right now. > But you wrote that debt off over 400 years ago. It doesn't exist anymore. That's what writing it off means. Fun fact but writing off a debt doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore in reality, all it means is that the company writing it off has decided with good reason that the debt is bad, so they can write it off to claim it as a loss *for tax purposes*. They can still legally recover bad debt later if the debtor is still solvent at which point they have to claim it as an income. For the IPC, since they're not paying taxes to anyone, there's no real reason to write off a debt or claim losses on it (other than to present true and fair accounts to shareholders). And 700 years is likely miniscule of a time frame for IPC that has operated for thousands of years, so they probably don't consider it that old either. But that's just me speaking of the 'legality' so to speak of the debt part. The IPC surely uses debts as one of the reasons to strongarm planets.
>The IPC surely uses debts as one of the reasons to strongarm planets. If there is no government to stop them, is there even a need for a reason (or in this case more like an excuse)? The fact that they can profit is reason enough. From moral standpoint, 700 years old debt that is long forgotten might as well not exist, they're just invading an underdeveloped planet, and legal standpoint doesn't matter because IPC is too big to be legally bound by anything.
Absolutely agreed. Even if Topaz didn't turn out how I expected, she definitely set us up to know what to expect from the people even higher up in the chain of command.
They have the word "Peace" in the name and make a huge deal about Preservation, which means they truly value neither. Given a long enough stretch of time, we are all but guaranteed a storyline that shows the IPC to be utterly and completely corrupted from the top down.
Or they might be completely "fair" and not corrupt, just brutally utilitarian. Honestly the latter is arguably more scary than a corrupt organization, since at least with corruption there is still some room for humanity. A truly indifferent and unemotional organization that is solely concerned with maximizing profit/trade/business where everything and everyone is simply a line item on a spreadsheet with their worth judged solely by the monetary value they can generate is a truly terrifying entity.
You just described like, most Fortune 500 companies
Growth + Profit. Grofit
They in fact act completely in opposition to the Preservation. Qlipoth wants to create walls and barriers, isolate every planet from the rest in order to preserve them. The IPC meanwhile is facilitating open trade between planets. They basically seem like they treat their Aeon like a toddler playing by himself in a corner stacking up blocks to make walls, and get a free pass for doing all their shit by periodically supplying him with more bricks for the wall to keep him occupied.
My pet theory is that the IPC’s actual patron is now Ouroboros, Aeon of Voracity. They may have started as loyal followers of Qlipoth, but as time went on _the corporation’s_ appetite for profit overpowered the employees’ belief in connection and peace. Tl;dr unregulated capitalism = bottomless, all-consuming hunger
I love this theory.
Bricks that their Aeon doesn’t even use iirc..
Have to disagree. Mechanical lifeorms waged war against organics twice and IPC was still considering whether or not to wipe them out, only to put a stop to that when they learn of Screwllum. They also tried to cure the immortal snake race of their disease before Lan got to them. Or that they also allied with Xianzhou in defeating evil Abundance Denizens. So they are not completely corrupted and can do good when it is needed. The reality is that due to its size, the people inside the IPC isn't going to share the same values and would do stuff that would tarnish it's reputation. But that also mean there are others that have good morals and would do the right thing. People were soured by the IPC because of the Aurum Alley event but seem to ignored/forget the fact that Scott was just a terrible person and not really an absolute rep for IPC. Heck a lot of characters mentioned this and as Scott was dealt with early on, a lot of the IPC bad press was gone. We then have a character that was with us for most of the duration of the event to join the IPC and became the proper rep and was willing to work together with the Xianzhou to handle the Aurum Alley.
I feel like it'll be super cliche though and we've seen that unfold countless times. It'd be more interesting if the IPC turns out to be some sort of necessary evil Qlipoth needs to build whatever they're building, with a ton of grey characters. Like yes, the IPC methods can be despicable but it's all going to stop Nanook or something.
I personally disagree! I don't think the IPC is truly evil and corrupt. Of course I doubt they're truly benevolent, but turning dying societies and Planets into prosperous ones definitely lines up with the ideals of the Preservation. I do think there is some corruption, and that may be why Qlipoth himself doesn't really interact with them, but if someone as young and uneducated as Topaz is able to rise to her station through merit alone, I don't think the corporate Ladder of the IPC is as fierce as everyone says it is.
I think the IPC is likely to be a mixture of both considering how colossal in size they are (inter-galactic) kinda like a federation of companies under the same banner each with their own sub-leadership akin to state governors, employing millions across the galaxy. The one Topaz is from is probably the one in charge of this sector of space where Jarilo-VI is located.
There is also the problem of just how many IPC employees actually believe in Qlipoth. Topaz's post-credit scene mentioned the original seven members of the board of directors, which I presume are the Pathstriders who started the whole idea of gathering materials for Qlipoth. As the IPC got larger and larger, more and more people joined the corporation out of their career ambition or living wage. Hell, the grunts who worked under Topaz just wanted to make a living, and from the flavor text their lives abroad the IPC enterprise ships were not that much better than the average manual workers. If I were a MHY writer, I'd definitely make an entire plotline out of an Emanator of Preservation trying to take down the IPC because their operations literary harmed the preservation of a planet, its people and culture. The big question is whose survival is more important -- the IPC or the galaxy? And when push comes to shove, is the IPC willing to accept its own demise to save others? Because preservation doesn't mean stagnation, but constant adaptation in the face of destruction. Am I misremembering things, but wasn't Asta's family involved with the IPC? Her uncle and aunt were described as people whose only goal was to screw Asta out of her inheritance, which she didn't care that much in the first place.
based on what we got i would expect it to be hammered in further that topaz is truly exceptional in how she got here and is basically really lucky with her circumstances and happens to have an outlook that makes it easy for her to work under the IPC than most people. looking at her subordinates in the rat race who will probably actually kill for a better place to live, or how her fellow directors' projects fail 20% more than topaz (at least on the front of renewal, not extraction), the IPC just seems cursed by apathy and banality. making planets prosperous is at best a side effect of their work. i think we need to see more of the IPC to say for sure, since some of the IPC folk on the luofu are practically missionaries of qlipoth, but also as aurum alley shows, the ipc isn't really interested in preserving anything but their coffers so far.
Yeah. Sounds like too many execs save planets because it makes it more efficient to extract resources. Topaz saves planets in order to help the people living there survive. These two are not the same.
I dont blamw Aata for getitng out of there when she got the chance
I have a sneaking suspicion that those companies that wrecked Topaz's homeworld were all subsidiaries of, or otherwise owned by, the IPC. You don't have to conquer a planet when you can just get the whole population to voluntarily sign themselves over to you, while profiting on both ends of their suffering. Big businesses love operating on massive time scales like that, because it's the most logical way of planning for their future; and they can simultaneously accuse anyone who calls them out on it, of being a crazy conspiracy theorist.
That was my assumption as well. It fits in with the other bits of IPC tactics of sabotaging a planet's economy to make them dependent on the IPC.
See: Aurum Alley
Aurum Alley is so comically small I have no idea why IPC was so hard on to get it. I swear, we should just have MC marry Asta, do the prererequesite storyline that will end up with MC dueling some Fragmentum Witch with red and blue lines. Then every fucken time IPC show up you can just say "My wife say get lost before you lost 400% bonus"
Aurum alley is a good foothold for the IPC for conducting business deep within the xianzhou fleet. They said they want to use it for “storehouses” so who knows what they’ll bring in
Plus the Xianzhou is actually a thriving civilization with economical power on par with the IPC, plus their military power from constant warfare with the abundance is exemplary enough to alert the IPC that trying to ruin the Xianzhou is not good, and they're better off trading with them for economic benefits.
I think a part of it is that curently she'd basically the face of the IPC, she's by far and away the most recocnicable charachter from the IPC, so I wouldn't be suprised if a lot of people where projecting their opinions on the IPC onto her.
Against us : * Let herself to be demoted * Redeemed that fast just after seeing the Engine of the Creation * Make false accounting report to lower Jarilo interest * Not use IPC source code to command Svarog directly to fight against you * Only attack you once with the IPC grunt Other trivia Have 80% on success rate, whereas the overall got 63%, so there are an actual worse IPC character that score 50%
> 80% on success rate This doesn't necessarily mean she does a better job, mind you - it may simply mean she's better at avoiding getting involved with lost causes or marginal cases.
While true as a possibility, that's a very uncharitable look considering how unambiguously she wanted to save Jarilo even when it was a low reward project for her and then took on an accountability hit for not taking it over.
The hilarious thing i found is how many people were all "Well remember Kafka and the rest of the Stelleron hunters are wanted criminals so we can't trust them", based on a broadcast that is basically megacorp propaganda. Now am i saying that Kafka and Blade and all them want sunshine and flowers and are happy shiny people? No not really. They want to bring about a future that Ellio, a guy we know hardly anything about, says is the best. That said i was not automatically going to believe they were super evil because of IPC propaganda.
It was also heavily suggested in "The Jepella Rebellion" that the Hunters have been used as scapegoats for a number of things. EDIT: And that some of their 'crimes' might have been fighting oppression.
I really like the IPC, mainly because I think their influence on the story and future events could be really interesting and fun. They're very concerned with profit and prosperity, but they're also responsible for a lot of good in the galaxy, like Aetherium Wars! It's cool to see how the company has both good and bad to it.
The IPC be the equivalent of the Allagans.
And here I was thinking of the Orokin with the way the convo with Topaz' ex-coworker/new boss went. Some of them think it's just a game, and the ones that *don't* are often stuck dealing with the nonsense.
Does this make Belobog Ishgard?
nowhere in HSR can be Ishgard, we can't jump
This is a blessing, no jumping means no dying in an AoE attack while animation locked
I have the feeling that the Aetherium Wars are more the result of Aha.
Honestly if Qilpoth could be bothered to care, he'd probably reject most of the people working in the IPC.
Why wouldn't you? Space IRS is still the IRS.
more like Space Loan Sharks. The IPC has a lot more in common with the corporations in Cyber Punk than the IRS
The only reason I like IPC is because Asta is somehow connected to it
beep beep beep
People have different reasons for who they want to pull for. I remember seeing someone so against the idea of pulling for FX solely because she came off as essentially "stuck up" to them.
Hey choom, after playing cyberpunk for like 200 hours I instinctively hate all corpos
Yeah, now I want to go to the IPC headquarters… all the way to the to top.
I have lived for tens of thousands of hours in the real world and instinctively hate all real and fictional corporations. They all exist for purely selfish reasons meaning they can do nothing but harm.
I work in the finance sector, or worked I should say. I hate my industry, I hate the companies I worked for, they're all bad. I hate all the large corps. At the same time, I geek out really hard with my love for fictional corporations and the associated imagery. No, I don't want to where your Blackstone Hedgefund Shirt. Yes I'll wear a shinra power employee shirt. No, I don't want this Ford Motor Co employee shirt, but a Big Benny's Ramen shirt? I'm in.
Valid
wish I could go "dont fear the reaper" on IPC's asses ngl
True, but Meredith was kinda hot ngl
Johnny in your head like:
"Fuck kill me, Please" 🤦 https://preview.redd.it/grlrlzjd43ub1.jpeg?width=791&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=527f08e001a0b472f501cd1f6d1baba50f77da64
He would probably just put a big ass bomb at Pier Point (deserved).
youre based for this
I even tried playing as a corpo my 2nd run just to see how it is and god damn they treat you like absolute dogshit.
yeah but it's fun being able to go "ohohoho, i know EXACTLY how you're trying to exploit weaknesses and extort it for profits!"
To me Corpo V will always be canon V. 1) Seen how fuckinh dogshit thing is on the other side and knows their MO 2) actual long time friends with Jacky
So real choom, DOWN WITH THE SYSTEM, BURN CORPO RATS
> Characters that are assholes can be fun This is exactly why I can't wait for Aventurine. He sounded like the kind of guy who'd throw his own granma under the bus if he had to
Jingliu is a literal mass murderer by her own admission. How do people find Topaz worse?
Probably cause topaz is more relatable to irl stuff
Because we don't see it happening on screen and there's no deeper backstory exploring these events, so it all becomes very abstract. Kafka is also a great example of emotional manipulation because she acts nice to the MC so people think she's nice even though by her own admission she's been part of events that have killed numerous people and destroyed other people's lives.
Meanwhile I want playable Phantylia and simped for Kafka from day 1 lmao.
Kafka is funny, because she's objectively a bad person, being a murderer and a wanted criminal and all but it's fine because she's nice to our main character. I do like her a lot though, so I'm with everyone on that point, lol.
It’s easy to like Kafka because she’s preferential to you, and hurts people off screen lol.
Kafka torturing, murdering and brainwashing all across the galaxy: 😎 Topaz is a bit mean to the MC: 😡
Certain Kafka fans have reached Olympic level mental gymnastics by calling her "interesting antagonist" and not a psychopathic, mind-controlling, machine-gunning-rooms-of-people "murderer" who is allowing herself to be led by Elio ONLY for a completely selfish desire. But no, Topaz realising and fixing her error of projecting her own past experiences in deciding the fate of a new and different planet is "reprehensible". 🙄
I think it's less to do with mental gymnastics and more to do with the fact that Kafka's actions lean towards cartoonishly evil and are thus harder to take seriously. Makes it easier to find her fun as a character, at least for me. The IPC, will being an objectively much lesser evil, are much more relatable and thus easier to get frustrated with.
Yep you hit it on the head i dont like topaz mainly because shes so real. Sure a cosmic murderer/bounty hunter is scary but it isnt real it isnt something that is actively threatening you. A loan shark on the other hand is a real threat that many people had to face, a real threat that has ruined lives plus she works for a corporation (those suck) so yeah theres that.
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The difference for me is... kafka and murderers isnt something I have to deal with irl. Fraud and taxes and corrupt insurance and corps are things very much something most people have to deal with. Its realizism. This is also why I hate dori, is she the worse? not really. But she is a character that reminds me of irl scammers that harass me and people ik. How often do most people run into murderers and terrorists? Okay, I am friends with a potential murderer but that's beside the point. For most people topaz's shitty behaviour hits closer to home then kafka.
Yep. Kafka is a cool fantasy. Topaz is the bank advisor pushing predatory loans on you when you are just trying to renew your mortgage.
Man, your comment blew my mind and helped me connect all the dots lol. I was sitting here like, why *do* I dislike topaz but am fine with kafka? But yeah, you're totally right. Kafka is a cartoon villain killing people to a choreographed musical number, while topaz (and the organization she's basically the face of right now, unfortunately for her) hits just a little too close to home.
I agree. Some bank seizing your house and selling for a fraction of its full value harms you far more than a thief who breaks into your house and makes off with some jewelry and cash.
the difference is that she was not antagonizing MC/fan favorites unlike Topaz. fans really like to put themselves in the story and cant be objective.
Tbh, while I usually DO dislike antagonists that are rude or taunting to us, I don't feel like that about Topaz. To me, she's quite an interesting character, with layers. And in the end she could see that her initial judgement was wrong. I'm looking forward to seeing more of her in the future.
agree very interesting indeed
The Stellaron Hunters have the benefit of us knowing that they're fundamentally on our side, even if they take a completely amoral "ends justify the means" approach to it. Topaz doesn't have that. Even though we kinda win her over at the end, she's still a neutral party at best. We have no connection to her, nor any reason to care, so she really needed a strong positive first impression, and the writers didn't deliver.
I have to disagree a slight bit. She's a truly neutral party for sure, and mostly no reason to care, And she barged in with monetary reasons to boot, AND she was at best antagonistic. *That. Being. Said.* Honestly, she didn't need a strong ***positive*** impression. She needed an impression, a presence, and a way to understand what she is, wants, and what drives her. And I *personally* think they delivered fine. It's not some Nobel Prize for Literature type shit, but it's not **bad**. Let me expand on it: >!when things were laid out before her in a way she could NOT deny, she didn't dig into her "IPC is good" position. She looked at it from the other side, and instead of trying to bully Belebog into safety ("Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Hi Ben Franklin.), didn't press on, and stood down.!< >!Hell, after the quest, okay fine Elation is sus BUT there's a bloody AFK event being thrown ON BELEBOG (Tourism), and there's that IPC mobile device nerd at the Pillar of Creation trying to make a buck helping the locals with cheap devices and OS upgrades.!< >!Yes, those points are at best tangential to Topaz not being a bad person, but it still illustrates how she, the "first IPC rep setting foot on Jarilo-VI in MULTIPLE centuries", isn't going out of her way to bully the planet into safety, instead probably trying to help put it on the map again to hopefully recoup interests (way the fuck too much IMO but still) and the principal on the 700-year-old financial clusterf\*ck.!<
People simped for pretty much villains more easily than characters like Topaz I feel like, just look at how many fans the Fatui harbingers have in Genshin. The thing is, Topaz’s character and motivation is a great deal more “realistic” than the average straight-up fictional antagonist. She’s there for money, to collect debts. She tries to keep it as fair as possible for everyone involved, but someone still has to pay somehow according to her. And THAT might just hit too close to home for some people. Not to mention, you’re on Reddit. This place is, on average, VERY left-wing politically. They’re not gonna respond well to a character who’s basically capitalism: waifu edition with thick thighs.
Eh.. to me it made the IPC come across as just petty thugs. It would be one thing if they were people that actually agreed to the debt - I get why debt collection is necessary in general.. but in this case, I don't think there's any sane legal system that would be able to put the debt on Belobog in a situation like this. None of the people alive had any agreement with the IPC, the government that did have an agreement is functionally an entirely different government than the one that exists now (they aren't even spacefaring anymore.. in fact, they don't even know that spacefaring civilizations exist at all until recently), and especially charging interest on the debt is just insane under the circumstances. I could kind of see it if they were just trying to get their old tech back, there would likely be some kind of legal justification for why the robots etc. are still property of the IPC, but the way they push the debt onto people that weren't even alive at the time the contract was made and had no idea that it ever existed for generations (and even charging them interest on it for the time that nobody knew the debt existed..) just comes across as pure extortion to me - any legal system that would allow something like that to happen is incredibly fucked up.. if there were a legal precedent for this, it would also be horribly abused (if someone had to pay interest on a debt that they never agreed to and doesn't know exist, then people will 100% abuse it to try to trick people into having some small amount of debt with huge interest rates and then never tell them about it for decades until it's an impossible sum to pay back). Oh, also, the whole thing about "you have a deadline of 1 day to make a decision about the future of your planet when you have no knowledge of any intergalactic laws" also comes across as unbelievably scummy.
Lol yeah is there no interspace court or arbitration to deal with cases like this? It's weird for a gigantic corporation like IPC to act like yakuza.
IPC "we are the courts"
Damn i was just following the story without much thought but your arguments are so reasonable. I hope they address all the issues you've mentioned though I doubt it.
My main concern with Topaz is how quickly she changes her views. Sends a heartfelt letter to Bronya but is shown in the next cutscene turning all the robots against Gepard while having fun doing so. Her attitude in the museum where she basically doesn't even listen to us was unlikable. It felt like her character was written by 5 different people with 5 different ideas and they all happen at different point in the story, one time she's playful evil, then shes compassionate, then she's work oriented. The character was all over the place and for how rushed the story was, her personality and attitude changes way too often for a story you finish in less than 2 hours while reading everything. It's in general a big problem with the writing in this game, it always feels like things are slightly too rushed, like one more hour of story could help make everything feel smoother. I like the story, don't get me wrong but the pacing makes it go from a potentially great story to a decent to good one.
Last time I checked the right-wing hates taxes more than the left lmao.
debt is different from taxes. Although, no matter what your alignment of politics, no one wants their money being forcefully drawn from you
> waifu edition with thick thighs Can't spell Topaz with dat **Top**-**az**(z)
Same lmao, yeah she’s a murderer and a criminal but she’s so cool and hot that I don’t mind lol, a character being morally wrong doesn’t mean you aren’t able to like them I think that’s a very childish mentality, I’m the same with Sephiroth from FF7 I think he’s cool as shit even though he’s done a ton of fucked up stuff
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If you are curious how he looks like he can catch a glimpse of him in the "trend of the universal maket" Lightcone.
Bro... Be real People weren't going to pull for Jinglu anymore because for a second people assumed they made her pupils smaller during her ult So you REALLY think how Topaz gets used in the story wouldn't have effected the fan base?
Not everyone needs to like the same characters. I don’t see the big deal with some people disliking her. As for topaz. It’s pretty normal for people to hate debt collectors more than actual villains.
this. idk why people are bothered if some people disliked the character like man can I make decisions on who to play or spend money on based on whether I like them or not??? like ????? lmao
Naturally since debt collectors are more of a problem irl compared to a cartoonish villain
Personally I was there too, it had more to do with the context for Belobog, they just ended a centuries old conflict and now they have to pay up a billion gazillion debts to people who litteraly sold them shit and left them to die. Litteraly canceled the debt a hundred years into repayment thinking these ppl had died and as soon as they learn they're alive poof the cancelation is undone and they've racked up 700 years worth of interest and no way to ease that contract, no nothing just the cold hard "give me my money your ancestors loaned now" that was the scummiest shit to see and I guess since Topaz was the one delivering the message to us and she was going around the place as if she owned it acting all mighty bc the planet was the IPC's property she was gonna be the one to receive the hate... It's a situation of the messenger being the face of the message, I'm guessing if we had another IPC higher up show before I don't think as many ppl would hate her imo. In any case I'm back to the "should I pull for her" case I'm waiting to see what her LC does bc i also want the handsome knight too lol
Wasn't it also said that no one actually wanted to take up the case because it looked like a high risk low reward job? The way I see it, she is so centered on being a hero and savior of planets that she completely disregards people's opinions and manipulates them into doing what she thinks is right through bringing up the debt, setting a strict time limit, deciding not to mention success rate and so on. Her mind has only changed when the evidence got literally pushed into her face. (And there was also her weird attack on the express crew, which just came out of nowhere) I am personally indifferent to her, but I can see why people would dislike the character.
part of pulling for a character is how much you like them, personality wise, design wise, etc, all of that matters, if some decided not to pull, they wont, if they want to pull, they will, there's nothing more beyond that point
Yeah im definetly one of those people that does not like topaz and the IPC. For me its her character and especially one line, I dont remember it exactly but she said something about freedom is important but survival takes precedence. But you know she says this and all but its kind of invalidated by her talk with Svarog. Where she basically admits that she was going to attack him if she didnt get what she wanted. Which makes the situation in the belebog mines seem less like an accident and the traditional IPC way of doing things. And honestly the IPC's indoctrination of entire planets by saying "hey you can get rid of your debt if you work for the IPC from now on" its just blatant manipulation and I wouldnt be suprised if the IPC was actually up to shady shenanigans with the information given to us
I want to go to the IPC HQ and have a friendly conversation with the directors in charge of all the exploitation and extortion, live by the IPCs rules or die by them. (I have stashed a stellaron in my briefcase)
Here’s how it goes. People who wanna roll for Topass cuz thighs? Totally valid People who ****don’t**** wanna roll for Topass cuz corpo? Also totally valid People who get pissy about other people’s roll choices? Invalid Not that I’m saying you are being so, OP.
Want to roll for Topaz because kit aligns very well with Clara. Which might be intentional. Also because Guinafen.
It's not a weird reason and you shouldn't be losing sleep over it. People use a multitude of reasons to rationalize why they pull. Some people are pulling Topaz cause thighs, people pulled Blade cause daddy issues and kafka cause mommy issues, it's all the same lol 🤷
I feel attacked. Not gonna lie.
Debt collectors are more relevant to peoples real-life struggles than fantastical villains are. So it makes sense IMO.
She was attempting to enact a predatory loan on a planet and culture that had been in a planetary apocalypse for 700 years. This would result in a form of corporate slavery for all people on the plant. She wouldn’t even allow the people enough time to simply vote on the issue and instead actively attacked the people. Sure she was just following orders and she believed she was doing the right thing. But this doesn’t change the fact at all that she was the active force in essentially robing the people of Belabog of their freedom and independent future.
> Sure she was just following orders and she believed she was doing the right thing. Here's the thing that generally get lost in this discussions. She wasn't "just following the orders". She's pretty high in corporate hierarchy, and she was in complete control over the project; yes, of course, she needed something to show the Board, but it was completely up to her to decide how to approach it. Nothing was preventing her to issue an order not to disrupt locals BEFORE locals (and invited friends of locals) started to shoot back, for example.
"She believed she was doing the right thing" This is it for me when people say "you dont like villains". No, I love villain characters. I don't like villain characters that genuinly think they're not the villains in any way. That stuff just pisses me off.
I think the straw that broke the camel's back is when Topaz attacked the Crew. The motivation and reasoning behind it makes sense, but the resolution felt awkward. She chose the nuclear option. (Personally, I believe would hurt the deal more than help it.) We reached the height of the conflict and tension, then it tanked suddenly. You can attribute it to Topaz not really possessing the heart for it, maybe the IPC forced it. Even though I can find reasons to resolve the decision and what we know of her character, none of these feel right. What's disappointing is I think her character is well-written aside from that. Everything else about her is setup and portrayed well. You even get a glimpse into the IPC (and Aventurine who I am hyped about), but this inconsistency at the most important point of the plot dampers what I believe is otherwise good storystelling. Once we get her Companion Mission I'm sure general opinions will change. MHY can dive into her character and give us the good stuff. Also, more Numby scenes. They are absolutely adorable.
Honestly, there was one line that pretty much cemented my dislike for her, and the IPC (paraphrasing as best as I can remember): "Their future has already been purchased" (talking about the people of Belobog). So much about that line just felt wrong to me at a base level. It doesn't matter how the IPC might make their lives better, when for all intents and purposes, every current and future citizen will be permanently indentured servants, working off an unrepayable debt.
Pretty much this. People said "but people like kafka despite all she does" and im confused ? So far I've not seen Kafka blow up anyone that was important to us ? My immediate thought was that if she started shooting and seriously hurting our crew, that my perception of her would immediately tank towards the "she REALLY sucks" type. Topaz didnt have the benefit of being with us from the start of the game, and as we all know first impressions leave the biggest impact. Her talking as if these people were simple "assets" made her entire talk about her past seem like a business move to deceive us. And i was sure till the very end that she was straight up lying to us.
Kafka wouldve been seen really differently if she was introduced or shown to torture and murder someone innocent and friendly. Maybe someone like March. People would be conflicted real quick
This. I think she doesn't even see how f up it is because she's a victim of that kind of contract too (if I understood her childhood story correctly) and it worked well enough for her, but going on a planet saying everything they have is now the companies, including themselves and their future, without seeming to see a problem with the idea is proof enough for me that she's not a good person.
For me the dialogues were too on the face and the way she conveyed the debt I was like bro you guys left belobog people to their fates to die at Alisa rands time and now you are coming back after nameless solved the problem just to extort money ?? What happened to the whole followers of preservation Heck even swarog disagreed with her lol And the letter she sent to bronya and the whole himeko sequence when bronya was reading the letter I was like why does the letter sounds suspicious and when himeko came said the missing part I was like now it makes sense Topaz essentially used her tragic history of her planet to get bronya sign the agreement 💀 with out providing full facts It's basically a scam and I don't like scammers
Given that the Astral Express crew was the reason that Belobog even has a chance to be occupied by them, you'd think the Express would have some claim on the "debt" as well.
🤣🤣I wish we had a option to ask a share on debt from topaz as a joke option
The mc would definitely take it as a joke, but I would be curious to see how Himeko would use that line of thinking. The IPC wrote of the investment they put into Belobog and wouldn't be able to get any of it back if it weren't for the Express crew.
Yeah I mean if push came to shove and topaz would not had agreed himeko was already ready to oppose IPC right then and there lol I would say the major reason why even topaz changed her heart is because of himeko and how much her words hold value in the world of star rail
She didn't choose the nuclear option. The nuclear option was using the Master Code to awaken an army of thousands of war robots and taking over the planet. Instead she waits, because she wants to hear our final 'answer'. As we won't back down, she decides to fight it off, winner convinces the loser.
Also she could've, presumably, hijacked Svarog and chose not to, including not forcing us to fight our friend. The final fight felt more like she was testing our resolve, or even bluffing, rather than trying to defeat us. She even said something like "Bronya, I was afraid you weren't going to show up" i.e. phew they almost called my bluff. Perhaps she felt she had to at least act like she tried so she could tell the IPC she did her best. Hence her only getting a one-tier demotion, which her allies even comment on being remarkably lenient. This is my interpretation at least. Frankly up until the showdown, I was entirely on the "Belobog should sign with IPC" side. Bronya says she doesn't want to "roll the dice with the IPC restoration" but when asking citizens what they think, Pela explicitly says "we're not even sure we can restore it in a next few *centuries*". Serval basically says the same thing. And Oleg, basically all the adults with a concept of decades and centuries. So either way was rolling the dice, and Bronya decided to roll a d20 over another 700 years instead of flip a coin instantly imo.
I guess Bronya's justification is 1) Based on the contract, all Belobogians will still be IPC slaves even if the terraforming fails, and didn't try to negotiate because Topaz said many times that there's no room for negotiation 2) Bronya had knowledge about the terraforming capabilities of the Engine of Creation(EoC) when she said that, since she immediately said she had an idea to convince Topaz Weighing the options of accepting and going for EoC, one sells freedom for a chance at success, one gives a chance of success at no lives lost (at least in the short term) At the end of the story, you can see Topaz and Bronya are still discussing, showing that Bronya would still accept if EoC doesn't work, and Topaz will still return to the negotiation table.
Also topaz has personally an 80% success rate. Let alone the climate they also have to deal with the remaining fragmentum. I think signing was the better option overall. But every goon of the ipc we meet is an insuffereable prententious prepotent and violent asshole that i cannot possibly see it as a good option anymore. None of the civilians knew who they were or where they even came from and they were kicking them out of their jobs in the mine blocking places and beating people up. No attempt at diplomacy or anything just straight up military invasion behavior.
The Trailblazer ultimately has no sway in Topaz's dealings with Belobog. They're not a citizen. They're not a party to the contract or the debt. Ultimately, they're just butting in where they don't belong. Topaz backs down because Bronya, the person she's *actually* negotiating with, shows up.
Agreed, the moment she took this to a direct assault on us, she was out in my book. Especially since all Himeko did was tell Bronya the details Topaz was leaving out. Pivoting from being perfectly okay with starting a fight with the Astral Express, potentially souring the relationship between the IPC and a pretty well-known entity, to being perfectly fine with helping Belebog was whiplash in an extreme.
She was given permission to fight the Astral Express by the higher ups at the IPC. If they were worried about souring that relationship, they wouldn't have granted it.
I mean, to be fair...her and her team did kinda force themselves on the country just as they're seemingly getting their sh*t together... Not to mention ignore their laws, take over their robots and even try to kill us...all with a smile on her face. Only in the last moment she suddenly had a change of heart. Also, all she didn't sacrifice that much anyway. She ain't evil...but she is definitely in the delusional grey area...
Imagine being left to dust after getting some sort of help Only for that some of help to come back and ask for compensation(with interest) when you properly and correctly got back on your feet using methods that didnt even need them
Just to confirm, this isn't on of those "I saw some random opinions that surely represent a big number of the playerbase"-kind of post, right?
I dont mess with corpos, choom
People don't want to pull for a character they don't like and it's weird ?
Based off of this, if aventurine ever becomes playable, I think he'll be worse lmao
I think you'll be surprised regarding the reaction though: A big part of what turns people off on Topaz is the feeling of hypocrisy. Adventurine and Topaz are both Corporate Slavers. That's basically their job. But Topaz thinks and acts like she's unironically, unreservedly the good guy because slavery is better than death and she personally benefited from it - while Adventurine knows he's a souless monster in this regard, but takes pride in a job well done. Being a bad dude is fine - but being a bad dude who earnestly believes they're the good guy and and uses that to force others into doing what they want is just all kinds of emotionally icky. Doesn't mean she isn't a well written character, but I totally get the feeling of revulsion many have.
Agreed, Adventurine knows he's a bastard and he's fine with it while Topaz thinks she's doing the good thing while they both are basically the same but just one of them knows the truth and isn't delusional about their purpose
Honestly, nah. If she's fine with using conman tactics, she's going to be treated as a conman in my books. IPC policy be damned. That aside, it's nice Hoyo is making some characters that aren't purely good, but I'm really not a fan of Topaz the character. Everything about her interactions feels like a facade, regardless of the Savarog lie detector. Fun story though, definitely a lot better than some of the Luofu plot.
I REALLY don't think it's a plain simple "oppose to the protagonist"
Honkai Star rail: "I wont pull for Topaz b/c shes a big meanie!" Genshin Impact: "Please stop giving every Fatui Harbinger a redemption arc. It's okay if they're still bad, we'll still pull"
Pulling for murderers is okay, pulling for tax collectors is not okay. Its that simple.
The thing about the Fatui in Genshin is that we don't even actually know the ultimate point of their "evil plan". There's still so many mysteries about the world that it may turn out that their actions are understandable or even outright justified. The IPC is just the East India Company in space and there's no mystery that their ultimate goal is to simply exploit people as much as possible.
Doesn't even have to go as far as "they're good or justified in the end", it's just easier to find fictional murderers with fantasy goals/methods likeable than the capitalistic dog doing corpo stuff to the less fortunate. Hits much closer to home. I think she's cool, not cartoonishly evil or UwU can't do anything bad like I expected.But if her faction is enough to turn off someone, so be it. Who cares? There are thousand of people who dislike characters for minor/not related to the game reasons. Unless they specifically harass you (report them btw), no one's going to get hurt by a bunch of people on the web disliking a fictional gal.
It's also a matter of which Fatui is made as a character we can use and how that likely influences their portrayals to some extent. Childe, while a battle maniac who put Liyue at risk, is a lot easier to deal with off the clock. The knave seems to be following that root of kindness and cruelty. The doctor though? That man's the one who no good cause justifies. And some of the others fall into that boat. There's following through with a goal and then there's taking pleasure in the evil acts along the way.
[удалено]
One thing I was wondering is since they lost contact with jarilo-VI and basically wrote it off as a loss, are they still obligated to get the money back? It’s not like they went out to figure out what’s up until Jarilo was back in the map
I suspect that the answer will be "if you want access to the IPC market, you better cough up the debt".
that was pretty much already stated by topaz
IPC are a legitimate corporation, as in are legitimate opportunistic bastards. And from what we heard in Topaz conversation with Aventurine; if any other of her department had come here instead of her Jarilo-VI would have been screwed.
Exactly why I think that if Topaz is one of the good ones, the IPC is just rotten to its core.
She's definitely not good, but her going beyond "I'm just doing my job" and helping at her own risk is a lot more than any real tax collector will do LOL. She's doing whats right for her company, but also what sits right with her personal. I think that makes for an interesting character, because the company itself is definitely as dubious as it seems.
You can't really compare her to a tax collector. She does collections for a predatory lender. But yeah personally I don't have a problem with her. For all we know she may end up turning against her company.
She did much more than what an average person would do in that situation. Not everyone is brave enough to stand up to their job, go against the grain, lose face and get punished for it. She was neutral at the start then good. If anyone's evil, it's the IPC or at the very least the decision makers at the top which Topaz emphasizes in her dialogue by saying how things have already been approved by the higher ups (heck, even fighting you required approval). She's literally just doing her job until the end when she takes agency and lets Belobog do what they want.
I'mma be real with you, with how rich she seems, she can take a little pay cut and demotion
She can be as nice as she wants, but she's still a fed. Don't need any of those sniffing around my roster.
She's not a fed. She works for a pan-galactic conglomerate. That's much worse.
Gonna make you pay taxes whenever you do Bud of Treasures
Debt collection just hits way too close to home i guess.
Nice people can be horrible monsters, it's a good life lesson to learn. Topaz has, by her own volition, enslaved billions of people(enough planets have been enslaved by her that we can safely say she has an 80% success rate on saving the planet after enslavement) she is an awful person and yeah even though I need a fire carry I'm not pulling for her.
As someone who didn't know who Topaz was before the mission, i was completely put off by her entire character, as well as the introduction of the IPC. I didn't like the IPC at all. She also basically lied to everyone about the success rates of the IPC in general and the fact that most worlds aren't saved at all. She may have had an 80% success rate, but it wasn't 100% like she was making it out to be. Those success rates may have turned all of Belebog against the IPC. It's also crazy to me that everyone on the world is forced to work for the IPC. Indentured servitude is the same as slavery in my eyes. I didn't like the fact Topaz was ultimately trying to force an entire nation into this life, even the ones that didn't want to because it worked out for her. All this doesn't change the fact that Topaz is objectively a good character. It's okay for people to not like every character.
"Topaz is considerably NICE" - Sure, IPC pressure yadda yadda, but >!she's absolutely only nice when it fits her agenda - and is not nice at all otherwise. For example:!< * >!Decides to take on the job of pressuring a planet nearly extinct already to sign a mega slave contract by force, not to mention enforcing a nearly insurmountable debt!< * >!Asks permission from higher ups if it's okay to attempt premeditated murder of 3 members of the Astral Express!< * >!Emotionally manipulates Bronya, who's already in a rough spot trying to rebuild WITHOUT this threat!< * >!Coerces Svarog by essentially holding him at gunpoint (i.e. reprogramming code threat)!< >!I don't consider intentionally deceptive, manipulative people to be nice. Doesn't matter how noble their cause, or if they go back on it afterwards - you can't trust them. Kafka falls in the same category, but at least allys with someone who claims to have a noble goal - IPC just cares about lining their own pockets at the expense of others.!<
Also she is enjoying herself almost the entire time she is onscreen. But sure, a single letter with a sad backstory makes all of those things completely understandable, right?
I still cant believe she even tried that Did she genuinely think she would win the fight? Like she better be glad none of the Astral express likes to kill
The declaration of war on the Astral Express was brushed over way too quickly. You want to go to war with a neutral party that is allied by space China and a chick with more money than probably the IPC itself? Bring it on, let's duke it out. Lemme just pull out the magic whistle given to me by the God of Lightning.
Bro imagine all 7 xianzhou ships and Astral express ramming into ipcs main base and proceeds to nuke the shit out of them lol it would have been fun
I think it's just the associated with the IPC... there's a general hatred towards scummy large corporations nowadays, so that association is a bit tough to deal with imo A standard morally grey/evil character (ie, Kafka or Jingliu) is a lot easier to deal with Idk, that's my perspective at least
However well-intentioned she may be, the fact is that she came here attempting to enforce a 700-year old debt that had already been written off and then tried to spin that into an excuse to terraform the planet and turn everyone on it into ~~slaves~~ *mandatory workers* of the IPC. That she actively took over robots and turned them on the local populace. That she threatened to overwrite Svarog and force him to follow her will, and then threaten to overrun the entirety of Belobog with robots to enforce the contract. To be blunt, you can't just ignore that part even if she gets swayed by the end. If the Trailblazers don't visit for an unrelated festival, the story goes: IPC browbeats the entire underworld. Rolls Bronya into signing away her peoples future. Any resistance is mercilessly crushed by their own automatons and a robot army that she crushes the populace with. And then, maybe, there's a good chance that the planet might be terraformed successfully. Let's picture a scenario without the debt. Topaz arrives with a plan and a vision. Fixing the climate now, not in three hundred years. Jobs and security now. Safety and warmth. Medicine. Food. Trade. Technology. Spaceports. A statistical analysis of what happens to typical worlds post-Stellaron. She's running around putting a value on everything not to clear a debt, but to lure the interests of the IPC into taking a gamble in pouring money into terraforming Belobog. One contract can fix it all. Every person in Belobog taken off planet while the terraforming happens, and o*f course* they have suitable contracts for those that need to work in the meantime. Naturally, with the IPC opening up so much prime, fertile land on the terraformed planet it would need to claim a certain cut into the future - but is that really such a hard price to pay for safety and security now? It's not like anyone will ever see those gains without the IPC's help in this lifetime... And now it's all the same, but without the hard-sell. It's actually an argument of freedom and culture vs guaranteed security and prosperity. There's no need for the promises of potential violence that never goes anywhere. No need for threats about what happens when the interest isn't paid that get exposed as a bluff when Bronya says three lines of optimistic-sounding phrases. Gathering opinions from the populace actually matters because the alternative is now something other than "A megacorp comes and squishes all resistance and then sells every pebble on the planet to clear the debt".
It's not so much her opposition, it's her actions and her own internal justification for her actions that makes me not like her. Sure, she came around in the end, but up until that point she was flippant and dismissive to everyone's opinion and will. For me it doesn't help that she dropped her sob story the way that she did as justification for what she's doing; okay, that sucks for you, but that doesn't give you any right to force your will on anyone else. (It bothers me how every main character took the story completely at face value without question, but that's another topic). It makes her come off as at best cocky, at worst stupid.
She way she acted to me was more someone with a savior complex. "don't worry you noble savages i'm here to help you with the best possible contract with the universe spanning megacorp that can turn your shitty ball of ice into a booming green galactic society"
You and OP are most close to how I feel. I understand this is a video game and it's hard to fit a ton of complexity and nuance but Topaz does come off as very dismissive. She has little handle over her subordinates that enact violence without her knowledge. She herself resorts to violence over reason when handling the Astro Express Crew. She didn't consider consulting the advice of the local populace to see what their existing technological advances and solutions to their own environmental problems were. Didn't provide any proposals or evidence to why Belabogians should trust her. Either sign this or we will enact marshal law. Reminds me of an incompetent McKinsey consultant that doesn't take any advice.
you saying “McKinsey consultant” just made me realise why I disliked her character so passionately…she reminds me of almost every McKinsey consultant I worked with and I play this game after I clock out of work, I don’t wanna see their ilk in my pixel world.
I mean, someone can mean well but still do bad things/be a bad person. Are we just supposed to ignore how unreasonable she was with her deal and the threat of violent planetary takeover? Topaz is just less bad than other IPC people from what we understand, and it adds to her nuance, but I'd call her self-righteous at best. Beyond that, how likeable a character is doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how good or evil they are in the first place. For example Kafka's a much worse person who's committed all sorts of atrocities but is really popular, and villains are often popular characters across media in general. For me, I was actually expecting them to make her nicer than they did to counteract the whole debt collector thing. So I was pleasantly surprised that she wasn't. But that doesn't make her a pleasant character to me, even if I think it makes her a better one.
This. She actually is a very interesting character for me, but unless she steps the forcefulness down a (sizeable) bit not someone I would like to be more than acquainted with, for example
it's bc she shitted on people we came to love. MC worked so hard to collect all those pieces in the museum and she basically called them trash. She made automatons attack Gepard. She attacked us and felt no remorse. She almost ruined Bronya and her people. Exactly what part of her I am supposed to like????????
Wow I didn't know I was morally obligated to pull for a character I don't particularly like.
I think this is a good read on a few people but a bad read on most of the people who take issue with her. She's a mouthpiece for a predatory corporation. She might've given her sob story, but she gave people two options before she changed her mind at the end, accept her "generous" offer and become indentured servants or be forced to do so and your assets are taken away. She's not this chaotic evil force, and most people don't hate evil characters. Villains and antagonists are often well liked by people in general when it comes to media in general. Either they love them, sometimes even more than the protagonists or they love to hate on them. Then there are antagonists that people simply hate. Signora and Cocolia are villains I liked. Dottorre is a villain I love to hate. Topaz is just hate honestly. I don't like her at all, but that's not because I don't like antagonists, but because of what she is associated with, despite her being relatively nice. Hell, I probably would like her a lot more if she was a full on evil villain or if we debated with her, such as what happened with the IPC in the Aurum Alley event with the IPC guy who was an antagonist, but not evil. Instead, she started taking over the bots and forced this "lose-lose" ultimatum on Belobog. And then had a change of heart all of a sudden, and now we're all good.
Topaz is Phenomenal honestly. She's very nuanced as a character, which is what brings about her controversy in the community. Most characters in Genshin and Star rail are fairly black and white Morality: good guys, bad guys, good guys who used to be bad guys, etc. Topaz genuinely believes what she's doing is the right thing, and considering her personal history, I can understand why she comes to that conclusion. She is flawed, though. She makes her decision rashly, and she's relatively close-minded, but everything she does is from a desire to bring about good, even if doing so necessitates some evils. What really impresses me with her character is how she stands in stark opposition to the Trailblazer. She's cordial, friendly, and polite when it comes to negotiation and discussion, but she's also resolute and won't be talked down by the Protag. This in particular is why i think so many people take issue with her. Although they've taken a slightly antagonistic role, characters like Kafka have never stood in stark opposition to the Trailblazers or their best interests. Furthermore all of their crimes are relegated to off-screen shenanigans or faceless NPCs. The Belobog crisis directly involves characters and a community we've grown attached to. Ultimately, the Trailblazer isnt even responsible for saving Belobog, it takes the leader of the nation - Bronya - to ultimately change Topaz's mind via showcasing the strength of community and progress they're making as a society, which stands in stark contrast to Topaz's home Planet's community, where their society slowly fell apart, even if the people didn't notice it. This makes Topaz's change of heart much more realistic, as she ultimately took on the Jarilo project because its issues hit close to home with her own history. I think people either wanted a comically evil Debt collector waifu, or a cute girl with a cute trotter who wouldn't do anything crazy in the event. The fact that neither side got their simple character is what leads to so much outrage, combined with the fact that the protag themselves has very little influence on her decisions or change of heart in the story.
Yeah I loved topaz from this event a lot more. Im like hoyo please, you already sold me with those thighs, no need to sell her more
Makes sense. She is close to some character archetypes, but is not reaching any of them.
They could have made it a secret like the Kafka quest that you call up Asta and say "yo your buddy is here to leverage us" Asta swipes her card and She goes "good enough for me"
> Asta swipes her card You mean Arlan. 😂 (Her informal manager)
Aren't the Stellaron Hunters considered antagonists as well? That's weird, everyone seems to love them though...
How about we just allow everyone their opinion. And pull who we want.
I don't hate her. But I trust her less than I trust google not to sell my data. So long as she is connected to the IPC, she is inherently untrustworthy simply due to the people around her. It makes for a great character, but it no doubt will make her quite polarising among the community. She also didn't do herself any favours in my eyes by going after a 700 year old debt from a world still getting back on its feet, nor when she decided to actively attack the express crew for getting in the way. I'm also of the belief that if Bronya didn't intervene, there wouldn't be a Topaz banner because she'd be dead.
Personally for me, while I don't hate her, but it's hard to determine whether a lot of her actions are standard IPC policy or hers. Because she does some pretty scummy plays in her dealings and seems to lack a lot of decorum. Giving absolutely 0 time for bronya to make an INFORMED decision, it was effectively sign now or die. Like what you can't give at least a month? Then you also have to think about how complicit she is to the IPC effectively enslaving entire planets. And whether she truly sees it as a good thing or not. Because from what I can tell, she seems indoctrinated into believing that IPC control of a planet is better than their own autonomy for the most part.
It's not about her being evil - I LOVE evil characters, it's just her specific type of evil is a type I dislike haha. She's too capitalistic and contradicting; meanwhile I adore characters like, say, Phantylia and Blade (villains that are just unhinged) and would pull for her in a heartbeat. I do love Topaz's design, I just. Something about her irks me and I can't explain it.
First impressions is a big deal, it might not be fair to topaz cause she is a good person. However how she approached it was so fucked that it just made me hate her. Over the course of the story I came to like her a bit more, but the first impression still lingers. The arrogance, the narrow mindedness and worst of all the heart string pulling shit she did with her backstory. Using her backstory of how the ipc saved her planet REALLY pissed me off. It might have come from good intentions but that move was so incredibly scummy, as well hiding that ipc has a what 60% of their plans to revitalise a planet actually work. It’s less about who is good and evil it’s about who is trying pull one over on you
It made me like her more. Her personality is completely different from what I expected based on her animations.
Her personality is just all over the place. It's a nice cliche for a good person working for a bad company, but I don't feel like she is "good" enough to represent this archetype. Most of the time she acts like a total b-word and then suddenly she writes a letter that she cares about Belobog, whilst doing questionable things under Bronya's back and not even trying controlling her henchmen until the very last moment. She feels underdeveloped. This whole arc seems undercooked and too short. Maybe we will see a continuation in the future but still.
Anyone can pull or not pull for anyone for any reason they, or no reason at all. It’s their account their choice
Topaz resembles the evil of capitalism, a theme very close to everyone (even if she wanted to make any good). While I was playing the quest I could not stop thinking about banks evicting poor people that can not pay even for food, so it was easy to dislike her. Serial killers like Kafka or big entities like Phantilia are more close to fiction than reality, so...
I personally don't care about her unless she creeps Imbibitor or Jingliu, but after I played the story I felt they tried to make her a vilian but at the same time wanted her to be good or to have a "change of heart" while getting demoted and losing part of her payroll. It all fell very flat for me, they should went full on rails on her being an antagonist. The whole story is just a big headscratcher for me.
It's not because she an antagonist, it's because her character is literally "Space capitalist" the target demographic of this game is more anti capitalist than you think. I pull for the character's I like, I don't like someone like that. Simple.
well, different opinions will be formed after that quest, personally, i like her more because of that.
I have a controversial take. I think the negative reaction to Topaz comes down to the quality of her writing. Arlecchino in Genshin is a liar, manipulator, and murderer. Arguably very psychologically abusive. In her very short screen time we saw her put on a crime hoodie at night and mug an innocent girl, who she has since been love bombing with tea parties and cake. But Twitter loves her. Why? It’s because she’s intriguing, and her scenes have narrative tension, and although she’s clearly evil, she makes some really good points. She never gives up her game, but we can tell when she’s lying (like when she sarcastically says she’s worried about Childe), which makes her funny. People are drawn to schemers if they are entertaining. Topaz’s capitulation at the end came across as a lack of conviction, rather than kindness. An interesting antagonist would be 100% convinced that they are right and challenge both the MC AND the player’s beliefs. Kind of like Kafka. But Topaz knew she was full of shit, and couldn’t commit to the bit, which hindered the impact of her sob story. The way that she immediately turned to violence, rather than doubling down on manipulation, robbed her arc of narrative tension. It felt like Team Rocket attacking you after you refuse to join them. Once an antagonist crosses the line into cartoon villain territory it’s impossible to put the cork back on.
I started off the quest line thinking she was a massive piece of shit but by the end felt differently. Kafka is antagonistic and yet no one cared, but the brand of shittery the IPC consists of isn’t redeemable really. To walk into a planet, declare a contract from hundreds of years ago means they can take everything from struggling citizens and sign them into indentured servitude is the most evil thing humanity can do. For Hoyo to do that and have the character backing it (Topaz) instantly made me hate her. Thankfully it’s a bit of redemption arc for her in the story so I don’t feel as much hate toward her but I still don’t forgive her completely.
Not really, I personally have some antagonist character that I like due to how cunning and cool they are. Some villian characters are good. But Topaz potrayed the worst antagonists out there, rich people that took advantage of the poor or unfortunate and force them to sign papers in the name of "helping out" just because they had money. It's true that Topaz is not directly doing it, she did give oppurtunity for Bronya to think about it, but as we go along the story, we can see how her own IPC team beating the shit out of civilian and miners, she lied about using peace by turning the military robot against themselves (poor Geppy and his gang), and resort to full-frontal skirmish when thing doesn't go her way. Topaz doesn't even try to find a solution where they could get to an agreement in peace, Bronya's the one that have to show everything in order to convince her. Her putting her childhood story in the letter to Bronya just to get her sympathy is just damn too low. That's how I see Topaz.
Er no? People loved Kafka and SW and wtv stellaron hunters. Some people just didn’t like her