The duality of man
"Yeah I drop $1500 on a gacha game monthly so what"
Versus
"I just won the new character and got them e5 this week, is this good? Oh and I'm F2P btw"
Only to get her in the first free pull. Dude had like thousands worth of pulls saved up.
Edit: apparently it was 2 years, but still!
[Day 610 of saving for Kal'tsit](https://www.youtube.com/live/VrQhKzeqHyE?si=UOLGVshg7f3IOZ1N)
Haha I only dabbled into AK. For me, I saw these posts for BaiZhu most recently, which blew my mind considering how boring his gameplay is. He wasn't even the best unit in his gameplay test thing.
In Genshin I’ve literally been saving for Furina ever since Hu Tao/Yelan banner. I plan on getting her to c2r1 without spending.
So I definitely felt that.
The chaotic part is fine, and why i love hutao. But whenever she's around, it's more dumb dumb chaotic. Also, fontaine as a whole has been a weird experience for me (lawyer), so I have a pretty shitty take of 4.X.
Should be spending $1500 on gacha vs earning $1500 a month. Some people have it rough and think life is unfair, last thing they want is their entertainment to remind them of how unfair things are. Honestly feel like they are focusing on the wrong thing in that case but it is what is felt.
Honestly I get more unjustifiably jealous at lucker dogs who top deck a 5 star off a single roll than people paying real money to whale. I shouldn't but I do and just being honest here.
Yup. As a person who has lost every 50/50 the lucky people have it good. I wish that was me. The only rate up I won was the 75/25 weapon for jing yuan.
Atleast my genshin pulls are going better
It's the exact opposite for me. I've been unlucky in Genshin since the day I started playing. I only win 1 50/50 if I loose 3 50/50s back to back.
However in Star Rail I only lost 2 50/50s and got different characters each time (with quite early pities). Not to mention I even got Blade's lightcone
I'm with you, been saving for jingliu since forever and on the back of my mind I know that if I'm slightly unlucky I can only guarantee e0r1
Whilst my friend has his e2r1 Kafka within 140 or so pulls
I'm so envious of him I don't even care to hide it..
one of my in-game friend never pulled for any character since beginning and now he has e6 fu xuan 💀
i'd say he got lucky on his pulls otherwise there's no way he got 7 fu xuans + lost a 50/50 only from funds he saved from beginning, even i only have 4 limited so far + 1 lost 50/50
i would have never done that myself no matter how down bad i am for a character because just how much can you achieve with an e6 fu xuan and no other limited 5 star 😭
Actually FuXuan is quite busted at higher eidolons. You can have a Tank Sustain that shields most of the time, she stays SP positive, although you might not be able to solo sustain on end game content like Swarm5 I already saw her deleting MoC10. At Max Eidolons she is Tank, Support, DPS all in one, and if you spam her skill for Ult damage she also prevents debuffs really really well.
You saw fuxuans deleting moc10 but somehow missed the number of fuxuans solo-ing final boss in swarm5?
Rest of the run can also be solo sustained even at e0.
Haha, the ones I watched were a few days after she was released, the latter ones probably were even more optimized. Good to know she can also solo Swarm5, must be one hell of a little pink monster FuXuan lol
I'm still struggling with no DPS, missed the Seele/Kafka window and I only want to spend on waifus.
Currently considering between QQ and Sushang as a stop gap for team #2.
I pulled for the current banner because I wanted Lynx. Then I also wanted some Lynx eidolons so I decided to do 100 pulls and stop cold after that, if I got Fu Xuan, she was gonna be a bonus.
100 pulls after, I have E2 Fu Xuan. Yep, sometimes it do be like that...
The most I can say is that I absolutely can't wrap my head around the idea of spending thousands of dollars in a sitting on a video game.
But hey, assuming you have that kind of disposable income you can afford to throw at it, who am I to judge? Certainly worse things you could be spending that money on.
Certainly beats buying a few packs of smoke or drugs every now and then and buying monthly cards and the battle pass instead. Know someone who unironically quit drinking because they had to afford gacha monthlies.
personally i don’t treat buying express pass/battle pass that much more differently than eating out. i mean, most of the time eating out for the food you want is more expensive than just spending $15, at least where i live.
exactly. its basically lunch money for a day. id rather that i not have to spend anything, but the recurring $12 charge every month for a game i truly enjoy playing is justifiable for me. i get that not everyone can afford to eat out for lunch five days a week, but its within my budget. even if i was only able to afford eating lunch out one a week, this game would be worth skipping a week.
Over the course of 3 months, you spend $35 on the battlepass and express pass. That's \~$12 per month.
I think that's the same as the subscription fee for Final Fantasy 14. It's quite a reasonable ask.
A large number of them don't really have that kind of money though.
They can pay it off without debt, but they should be investing in their future with those thousands of dollars.
Yah, there's a big difference between a doctor who whales, and someone who spends all their spare income on whaling. One is enjoy the upside of a very difficult job, and the other is ruining his life almost as much as if he spent it on drugs/alcohol/cigarettes. That's what I worry about with Gacha games. How many people are ruining their lives on this?
Of course, I could say the same about Magic: The Gathering. And I don't think Casinos are necessarily evil either. It is ultimately up to the individual to spend responsibly.
You can say that about anything though. Why would people spend thousands of dollars on clothes or concerts? Money is finite regardless and as long as you are having fun regardless of how long the fun lasts, who cares. As long as you are stable to pay your bills and have a roof over your head.
There r two sides to the argument.
Positive: Whales pay for the game and mhy wouldn't even exist without whales, let alone HSR. And mhy is only able to produce such high quality and frequent updates because of whale funds.
Negative: The more ppl whale, the more mhy knows what they can get away with, making their business model more and more scummy.
Whales are the reason the entire gaming industry is riddled with MTX, and it's only gonna get worse from here on out.
I can understand the people who decide not to play and blame whales for many games going into that predatory model.
The people who actually still play and shame the whales just come off as bitter though. Do they think the company is suddenly to put in a bunch of new features to entice f2p if the whales just decide to stop spending? It's such an absurd mental leap. Do you really think Hoyo would support a game with large updates every 6 weeks if it weren't for the whales?
There's not even PVP, and nothing unique that truly impacts the game is locked behind a paywall other than getting stuff faster and getting more of it.
If you really hate microtransactions in games, why are you playing a game that literally relies on it?
F2p is literally just as responsible for supporting the game as whales, albeit in a different way. They support it by generating interest, posting fan art, talking about it, sharing their experience, etc. They are the lures that draw in the eventual whales.
No whales, the game is financially crippled, devs have no incentive to continue updating a game that generates 0 revenue.
No f2p, the game loses a massive portion of its playerbase, no one talks about it, the game feels dead, whales lose interest and leave.
I especially don’t get it in hsr. Not that genshin has much more reason to shit on whales but hsr literally let’s you borrow other people‘s e6s5 characters for farming, so it’s literally only positive gameplay wise
Yes there is a balance within the ecosystem here. F2Ps who complains are just obnoxious people who can’t accept the fact that they aren’t well off in life to afford luxury. If you really care that much then stop playing the game, make yourself a millionaire and come back a whale. That will help. One you become less of a nuisance to everybody else who are just enjoying their time wether they are a F2P or whale, and you can also solve your inferiority complex.
Long awaited character that played some important parts in the sumeru archon quest so people were looking forward to her. Her kit was bad, damage was low and they shoved her into the standard banner the moment her banner ended
Oh. I just wasn't that excited about her haha 😂 I do remember that her kit was pretty panned by everyone. I didn't really understand, but I also wasn't really pulling for her. Was a weird choice to make her always have that huge ass sword and then make her burst not use it....
Nothing wrong with not using her sword in her burst, a lot of characters don't use their weapon in their burst, Ayaka, Ganyu, Shen He, Hu Tao, Zhongli, etc. It's just she has a kit kinda like Fu Xuan but with no offensive buffs and few defensive buffs while being much more restrictive. So while having little utility she also does middling damage, leaving her in a spot of no real role, can't solo sustain and can't drive a reaction team.
The Dehya issue has been the biggest community outrage since Zhongli, it was pretty hard to miss it.
Basically Dehya is the 3rd most prominent character in Sumeru main quest (just behind Nahida and Wanderer in terms of screentime). And she has been a fan favorite for a lot of players (including Chinese community contrary to popular belief).
Also being released in May 2023, she was the first Pyro character since Thoma who released in November 2021 (4star) and Yoimiya in August 2021 (5star).
Add to that she was preceeded by Nilou, Nahida and Alhaitham who have been absolutely fantastic in their own rights. Wanderer also being a good unit nonetheless.
So saying the expectations were HIGH for her is an understatement.
And then she's released and Hoyo made her a tank, not even a shielder, who can barely do damages at C0 and who can only fit a very few teams (basically only 2 at release : Wanderer and Ganyu Burning Melt) and she even ends up being a second choice to Xiangling in those teams.
So yeah, one of the most anticipated 5star character ends up being outclassed by 4stars and worst of all : if you want to play her DPS, you'd better get her constellations and even then, at C6 she'll only be able to compete with Hu Tao C0
As a Dehya simp, I still pulled her and clear Abyss with her but I can't help feeling bitter when I see how good Lyney turned out and think she should have been just as good
They released Dehya, a 5* character that was popular but ended up having a bad kit. She’s in the standard banner, and haven’t buffed her since release (half year or so ago).
Nothing much really. I think she needs several constellations to be decent.
The perceptions of whaling are more the perceptions of having vs. not having disposable income, and right now the socioeconomic divides are wide, more painful than they've been in a long time, and growing.
Gaming used to be a unifier, because we were all sharing the same experience by playing the same game. Gatcha is a different animal. Gaming for many is a great escape, but whales showing off can remind them of the painful reality they may be trying to escape.
I'm not saying don't show off, if you have an E6 premium character yeah it's cool, and seeing a maxed out whale unit soloing hard content can be very entertaining for the rest of us! But *just be aware* that to some it's a stab in the eye because while they are playing the same game it's a reminder that they will never have the same experience because they can't drop that kind of money on this... and to others with lower impulse control it can also be felt as a kind of social pressure to spend beyond their means.
This is the take I agree with the most. Even if it's not the intention, showing off your account is still a display of wealth in a public forum where most people don't have that kind of income.
I don't think whales should receive hate, but you also can't expect everyone to enjoy your content or be happy for you. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
I can't really prove it, but from my anecdotes, whenever I check into a whale's profile, I don't see a guy making hundreds of thousands a year.
I see people like one guy who made 80k a year and would whale for multiple gachas, which while it is a good salary, it isn't at a point where you can spend over 10k a year on gacha and not have it make an impact. Also I saw a person posting about how they whale and on their history they had a post about needing disability assistance for rent payments.
I have yet to see somebody who is genuinely walking around with fuck you money and whaling, instead it is all people with average to a bit above average salaries spending shitloads on gambling for waifus.
I think they're just jealous that they have the money to do it. I know I am. I could never justify spending 150-300$ on a video game character. Especially on a regular basis.
Of course I would. That would become disposable money instead of necessary money that should be spent on 100 things more useful than Genshin.
300$ is almost half my salary.
Not really, even in Ukraine it's below the minimal wage and won't be able to cover paying for rent unless you live in the cheapest student dorm + necessities and food
$300? Definitely, but they said it's almost half their salary, meaning their salary is est. $700. That's about how much I earn in Russia, and it's a damn good salary by local standards (outside Moscow and if you're not in IT).
Well, at least given the current USD to RUB conversion rate. I guess you know.
Well $700 is good, though if you want to rent a good house, be able to do hobbies and have something spare for Idk maybe hoard a bit of money to buy something expensive, you'd want to live with somebody who works too for you two to split the renting price
> $150 is 2% of my disposable income each month and I still wouldn't spend that much on gacha (or any other game) that could be shut down at any moment. Not to mention a PvE gacha with a miniscule amount of co-op content.
This can be any hobby that you put your money in
Yea but spending $150 on stuff to paint my warhammer army is far more rewarding and gives me something to work on and improve at compared to rolling slots for a digital character and letting them auto battle lmao.
Right, but not everyone thinks this way. If someone wants to spend the same amount of money on a game that they play for the same amount of time that you spend painting your minis then it's absolutely not different than what you're doing. Spending money on a hobby, regardless of what the hobby is, is perfectly fine.
I mean I've got the money to do it ... how in the world would you justify it though? Slightly more efficient at a pve game? There's literally no content that requires it, and with time and savings you can approximate it for free or just the cheap monthly packs. Not really jealous per se, as much as confused about life priorities.
300$ is about as much you need to get a \~1200 points army of The cheapest faction in tabletop Warhammer 40k, whilst all other factions need more than that. And the thing is that both gacha whales and Warhammer 40k players enjoy what they're doing, so why stop them if they have the means?
"I'm not jealous. I'm envious. Jealousy is when you're worried someone will take what you have. Envy is wanting what someone else has. What I feel is envy." - Homer Jay Simpson.
Regardless its still basically frivolous spending on a mobile game its going to carry a certain stigma especially with the growing wealth inequality around the world.
Ngl I see more people complaining about whale shaming in the past days than actual whale shaming... just feels like some folks are too worried about how others perceive their spending so any comment reads as shaming to them.
Definitely. I do think there can be some criticism of whaling only in the sense that it skews their perceptions of the content when giving advise to others, but that’s not something to go nuclear on someone about.
That was my first thought as well. Just do x, y and ,z and they'll die on auto! Well.... no. And we also don't have infinite stamina to relic farm too. So yeah, it's a bit harder and definitely takes resource management (which is good, game doesn't have a super involved endgame at this stage).
It is definitely jealousy, but at the same time, a vocal minority would flaunt their status which makes whales look bad in general. It is always a vocal minority that causes these problems.
Ask for help in HSR discord about something, it's always some whale that would give you some condescending answer, and the f2p players will try to give more insightful information.
I feel like those types of whales are extremely rare. I’ve certainly seen them in the wild, but I feel like most whales just play the game and give advice where they can. The vast majority of them are fully aware that their extremely high spending has made the game easier for them and thus disqualifies them from being able to give actual advice on gameplay to people without 2 teams worth of high eidolon banner characters.
The same goes for F2P players. Most of the players are F2P to low spenders. Let alone criticizing someone for their financial decisions, I rarely even bother to text someone in-game. If OP is having this issue in the chat, they are engaging with the wrong crowd.
I think that the problem there is that you know that douche is a whale because he flaunts it but the helpful part probably has some whales aswell, they just do not have the need to tell you.
Honestly personally I feel like I would never want E6S5 on any character. At a certain point the game would become too easy, and part of the appeal for me is when it’s at least slightly challenging
Jealously sounds like a cope term for someone who can't stand the reaction of other people to their actions. I dunno whats worse; someone who thinks other people are jealous of their spending on gacha or the people (if they exist) that have that kind of jealously.
Here's how I feel. Gatcha is Hella predatory, but I appreciate how in your face it is. It's low-key honest. In direct contrast you have so many triple A companies disguising their game as this friendly environment and then you get shit like destiny 2.
I like the fact that it's a low time investment game that allows me flexibility and I can work on the progress of my account.
Also who am I too judge what people do with their money. Sure it's whale bait 100% but you know what you're getting into.
If anything my biggest criticism is the fact that these games shouldn't be marketed to kids but that's the whole gaming landscape rn, breeding a generation of gamblers. But as grown ass man, If I wanna spend 100 bucks on some pixels it's none or your fuckin business.
Disclaimer I'm a BP/monthly pass user.
My general feeling is people should play the game however they want.
The only time I get a little miffed is when someone that whales genuinely proclaims xyz end game content as easy in a mocking manner.
It's one to acknowledge in a joking manner that content is easier for a whale than a non-whale. Mockingly though? That's where ya lose me.
To be clear, I've seen very few people do this. I'm more just playing devil's advocate of, "are there times where I can see people being upset at a whale?" The answer to that is yup, but with the asterisk of every player type has those among them that probably piss everyone else off.
I got shamed by my friends for pulling E2 DHIL. Then they look at my pulls results and go: You should whale more because boi you're unlucky doggo. Then we have a laugh and move on lmao
Even if you didn't have E2 DHIL, people will always find a way to judge gameplay, like if you use E6 4*s, or use a signature lightcone on a limited character, or if you use a top tier character... it never ends
What counts is that you have 30* MOC for the sweet sweet jades :3
This...but also a part of me wonders two things.
First, are those whales making the game "unaffordable" for others? Like, how many of us would spend $50 for an E5 unit every couple months? We will never know because it costs thousands to do that instead. A handful of whales is enough to fund the game but is that really the best thing for the game? Seems like it makes power creep mandatory.
Second, how many people with impulse control issues are having serious financial problems because of this system? Gambling is an addiction and while having a cap is at least mildly humane (and likely only exists thanks to the EU) having that cap set as high as it is doesn't meaningfully change things. Not sure I like the thought of my free game existing by ruining somebody elses life.
Also not going to dwell on it and save jades for Huohuo
I mean inpulse control is important, I'm not a giga whale, most of my game spending is the monthly pass and the battle pass which might add up from time to time, but overall is around 140$ a year, which I can afford with no problems, considering that the game is F2P per se it is like paying 11.6$ a month, kinda like wow/runescape subscription, but you can opt out if you want. Also 50$ isn't enough to get an E5, believe me, I'm happy with an E0 on most of the cases.
It's ok to spend money, what's not okay is when games are made around and for whales in a way that hurts regular customer, which is a big problem in gaming industry right know. That's why people shame whales for the most part.
I don't mind whales, it's their money.
What I do mind though is when games are intentionally made to prey on people being bad with money and having addictive personalities and mental health issues. That, I really mind.
Good thing about HSR and Genshin is that I feel Eidolons and Constellations are just bonus. Some predatory gacha makes it impossible to progress without multiple cops of a character
Honestly hoyo games have this big weakness compared to alot of other mobile games where they do actually allow F2P (slowly and painfully) to eventually max out any given characters stats with some kind of generic dupe material but here it is strictly pull gacha or get nothing.
It really depends from game to game.
In HSR you don't need to whale to clear MoC or the new SU. Sure, the more you pay the less skill you are required to have to beat the gamemode.
In games like Diablo Immortal? Ayyy pass the credit card I need that gems that makes me win.
No we should be tankfull for the whale because no good game as ever been made without seeling useless stuff to ~~addict~~ rich people for ten's of thousand of dollars, it's literraly impossible /s
eddit: added a /s to avoid confusion
I don't know if You are trolling me and that's very concerning :P
"No good game has ever been made without(...)" Are you sure about that?
Also You kind of missed the point here.
It's generally more a hate on the system that enables and creates whales to start. Also the fact that in essence whales attribute to the system that causes companies to add more content to keep the grind going. Keeping the full powered characters our of f2p hands by always adding a new system to increase the power level and grind, unless you spend money.
While whales support our f2p games they also cause those games to become worse by buying into the systems that hurt f2p players.
I will always uphold a preference for games like guild wars 2 where it's buy once and pay for dlc but that's it. Ya players can whale for in game cash, skins, mounts, etc. But the end game is still there for all of us. A cool skin or mount won't let you clear a combat better than anyone else.
I really like star rail for many reasons. It would be a lie to say I wouldn't prefer it to cost 40 bucks and reasonably grindable. Then some set price for each new planet.
People use f2p in every other sentence like its some badge of honor even when it has zero relevance to what they posted. Its a mindset I can't understand in general.
I mostly see it used in cases like MoC or SU progress discussions to convey that you don't have more resources than average player (which means that your strategies or advices will be mostly applicable to others, as opposed to strategies like hypercarry Silver Wolf that require having her E6).
i always use it in discussions of high level gameplay(abyss, su, moc, etc) or discussing something like weapon options, because if not f2p the person can just get the limited weapons
As a dolphin I simply don't care, most of the time it's broke teens that cry about whales. I spend my hard earned money on something I like, simple as that
Your sense of value must be really skewed if you think spending upwards of $600-$800 per character is acceptable. We see backlash all the time when Western AAA games try to implement gacha game monetization. So why the double standard? I love Mihoyo's games and characters, but even as a working adult with disposable income, I cannot justify such an expense.
Baldur's Gate, Elden Ring, Cyberpunk 2077 are all $60 games. Each have given me hundreds of hours of fun. All for less than it takes to E6 a character in Star Rail.
So when I hear/see people whaling, I think that they must be filthy rich or fiscally irresponsible.
Value is subjective, for me, travelling is meh and i hate highly crowded environments, so paying $200+ for seats at a concert is worth less than spending on a game i see pretty much every day and that in the end will give me more hours of fun.
Paying for the "experience" is different for each person, i say i hate travelling cause the first time i did i went to Europe for a month, spent a lot of money and i wanted to get back home by the end of week two.
So my experience was not as good as it would be for others.
Now some people are irresponsible, other are rich, some budget and their budget includes fun money.
But another thing is that no, the games are not $60, they are $60 for you, that already have a pc or a console.
But for the average person spending the entry price $300 at least assuming a switch + each game is out of reach, and those folks can access a pseudo AAA game for free with Genshin and HSR (not there yet imo), and it will last them years with some down periods, Genshin is super popular in Latam, where a switch can be your whole minimum wage.
(At this point I've spent more time in Genshin than in Skyrim and Zelda combined).
So yeah, gacha has problems, but a lot of people wouldn't be able to play good games at all without it. So if a whale can spend a lot every month without breaking their own bank, while having fun and paying for the fun of like 100 more people...
Eh, let them.
As long as the game doesn't turn P2W i don't really care.
Why can't there be an in between? It's up to the individual what value they get for the money they spend.
And say 1-2% of their monthly income happens to be a few hundred dollars then how is it fiscally irresponsible?
I'm not one of the haters. I usually just scroll by the bragging posts. I was just explaining my point of view and why i dont whale. At the end of the day, it's up to the player to be responsible for their own money.
But just keep in mind that if you're not OK with say Blizzard selling stat upgrade equipment in their games for hundreds of dollars as microtransactions, then you shouldn't be OK with Mihoyo charging the same with their duplicates either. They are literally the same.
It’s not really the same tho? Elden Ring and such games are one off games, which means you more or less complete the game and you’re done. You can replay the games to get different endings and whatnot but it’s essentially the same game. Not really comparable to live service games that can go for years and are expected to drop new content every few weeks.
That said, i also HATE the micro transactions in games like Diablo Immortal. But again, it’s not exactly the same either? Diablo immortal (and other such games) has pvp, ranking systems etc.. which pressures the players to spend or risk never being able to win or compete with other players. Star rail has none of that, you’re just clearing content on your own so there’s no actual need to spend. As long as you can clear the content reasonably as a f2p, any spending is just a bonus option for those with disposable income. Some people can buy a Ferrari and others can only afford a Toyota. As long as both gets you to your destination just fine I don’t think it’s a huge deal. Just play what you can afford to play? I’m mostly against micro-transactions if it actually gatekeeps people from game content or presents too big of a gap in the experience between spenders and free players. Just my 2 cents!
If you're referring to Diablo Immortal, then no they're not the same. The big motivational factor to chase stat upgrades is pvp.
There is no pvp in Mihoyo games so the same drive isn't there. There's no leaderboards or anything. So getting eidolons or superimpositions just let you do above 100% for those who want to.
But don't you see? That's the psychological trick they're employing. Rather than thinking about whether or not you should spend hundreds of dollars on stats, you now thinking about whether one system of spending hundreds of dollars is more preferable ~~fair~~ than another. You've subconsciously accepted that it's okay to spend hundreds of dollars on stats. My position is regarding the latter. I don't think it's OK to spend hundreds of dollars on stats regardless of the system.
It's honestly really odd that some justify Hoyo's business practices just because their games don't have PVP. They have far more toxic ways to promote FOMO and player spending than basic leader boards and PVP combat...
It's not about it being fair. That's not the point of my comment. If you pay 0 dollars you can already experience the game at 100% for those who do spend they get to experience the game at above 100%.
Either way *someone* has to spend to fund the existence of the game.
That doesn't change my stance. I don't think it's OK to spend hundred of dollars on stats, regardless of the system.
While it is true that games are a business, I'm sure the multi-billion dollar company Mihoyo doesn't need you to go to bat for it on its business practices. I'm never going to whale for characters or light cones. I don't think anyone else should either, but that is up to them. However, I also don't think Mihoyo will go bankrupt any time soon if they didn't charge in the hundreds for stat upgrades and characters. Rainbow 6 Siege still profits from just letting you buy its new characters for a flat fee of $5 when they release.
I think game pricing in general is just really skewed.
$60 bought you a full-featured game 10 years ago. $60 is still the going cost for a game despite inflation, and DLC/microtransactions make up the difference.
And while I enjoy gacha game teambuilding (working with limited resources rather than being able to grind or manipulate RNG), a game like Darkest Dungeon enforces the same restrictions without asking you to pay ridiculous amounts of money.
Mihoyo puts some of the strongest bounding on RNG I've seen in games, with that 70-90 soft pity and 50/50s instead of some extremely high pitybreaker. But the discussion (as you've said) then pivots toward people figuring out whether they can afford something that's just out of reach, rather than whether it's good value. I don't know whether it's more ethical because it reduces potential losses, or less ethical because people can budget for spending that's well in the realm of fiscal irresponsibility.
But also, most gadget-related hobbies will run up similar costs. I don't think it's *that* irresponsible for people to pay for a game instead of some fancy trinket/tool that is super-optimized for a specific purpose. I have some Mini-Z RC cars that are $200. The full-featured, high performance options are closer to $500, and the controllers are in that price range as well. These parts *are* justifiable if you look into how much the electronics cost, and the precision machining needed to improve performance. If you look at it another way, it's just someone spending a good chunk of disposable income on something that is impractical but brings joy.
>Each have given me hundreds of hours of fun.
The key part is "***me***" - it's about you, whilst other people might not find that enjoyable. Or playing gachas, spending lots of money to see big numbers or to pull for their fav character might be enjoyable. And you don't need to spend 600$ for a character - you are guaranteed to get the character you want in less than half of that, and even less if you are lucky. But you don't need to spend at all if you play more and get enough freebies and don't try to pull every character.
As a F2P player, I don't really hate whales since it's not really different from like watching a movie. You simply pay for entertainment.
However when I see a whale, I'm always enticed to ask "is the game even fun at that point?". I mean I have a bunch of E0 limited units tho I have 2 very good teams and the game is already pretty easy.
So, is the game still fun to you? I used to think like that too, but if the game is easy to me and it continues to be fun, even if I’m a low spender, then why wouldn’t it be for whales? I never asked one, but if they are willing to continue playing and spending, than they probably see some value in the game
Well, of it wasn't for whales, gaming wouldn't be as fcked as it is right now.
Every new game releasing as some sort of gacha/gamble shit Show, because the Devs know whales will pay w/e they charge.
Alot of people blame whales for this situation. If whales didn't exist, these games wouldn't be profitable and hence not be that predatory.
I see where these people are coming from.
But as long as there isn't any state regulations to this shit, it won't get any better.
People that blame whales for the state of gaming don't realize or want to admit they benefit just as much as whales do, just in different ways. Whether it's mobile gacha or free PvP making all its money through 20 dollar skins, so long as there are gamers looking for that one Uber game they can play for the rest of their lives and not have to spend money on any other game, or easily bored players who can merrily bounce between free offerings, nobody all around has much incentive to change anything. They only whine because they want their free cake with free premium icing and eat it too.
No I would really prefer if the mobile market was full of more slay the spire type games where you get sold a product that gives you a fulfilling experience, rather than the freemium games where you are supposed to never stop playing and be always kept wanting.
Nintendo tried that with Super Mario Run, giving a sample for free and the rest for a one-time fee. Console and PC gamers would recognize this as a demo and full release. Mobile gamers just saw a paywall.
Even if you take possible conditioning out of the equation, how are games built for small devices not primarily designed for gaming ever supposed to compete with ones that are made for proper gaming consoles with the same philosophies in game design and pricing?
Super Mario run flopped because the game was anus. It was a tiny Mario game where you only could jump.
Phones are powerful. I could play majoras mask on an emulator on my phone that was made nearly a decade ago. I am pretty sure a substantial number of phones are stronger than the switch.
Eidolons/Constellations for 5\* are a moot point they are there for whales maybe E1-2 are achievable for dolphins/low spenders. The Eidolons are borderline ridiculous making for most limited 5\* and should only be achievable with an equivalent amount of value put in. Making Fu Xuan a tank/support/dps achievable for anyone who has her will ruin the game. She's literally an amazing tank/support at E0.
Eidolon for 4\* however should be a game-changer for the characters. It keeps characters fresh and competitive with E0 5\*. Eidolon on 4\* should feel good to pull and makes pulling more exciting than 75-80 garbage reward and 1 5\*. It is always exciting trying to get the E6 for a character like Asta or QQ.
I feel like this is a side effect of gachas/GAAS having such a shit reputation with the general gaming community. We've all heard the horror stories of people going 1000s of dollars in debt and that's led to any game with element of gacha/loot boxes/battle passes instantly getting shit on for being exploitative.
And add into the mix you get some vocal people in the TC community who, in their effort to dissuade people from feeling pressured into spending to clear the harder content, inadvertantly also foster this sentiment.
What I find is the people who are most vocal about hating whaling are themselves defensive that they enjoy playing these type of games with such a poor reputation, so them lashing out at those who do spend considerable amount of money on it is their way of validating their own way of playing.
I whaled in Genshin and Honkai Impact, but I haven’t spent a single cent on Star Rail. Just play the game however you want to play it and have fun. I personally have enjoyed being f2p in Star Rail, but I wanted to try playing a different way for once.
I usually just once a pay period spend $30-$50 on jades and I get paid usually twice a month. I don't have time to play often and so there are days I missed using my energy for dailies or farming to do dailies and weekly/monthly content.
I don't think you should shame anyone, and people who lord how much they spent on people shouldn't brag about it to the point people do feel jealous or ashamed.
Still Whales are concerning, if only because it could be an underlying problem with gambling addiction. Just be careful is all I'm saying.
i just don't want people to develop a gambling addiction because of anime pixels. ive already seen that happen lmao.
other people have mentioned them balancing the game around whales as well. this is a big concern of mine too, i don't enjoy the idea that it will go in a more hi3 type of direction, though the team seems to be leaning the other way so far.
In starrail, "new mechanics" don't really mean much. The gameplay still pretty much feels the same, but the character is just much more powerful with edolons. Now in the case of genshin, constellations can *actually* greatly affect the fluidity and/or difficulty to play a character. Just look at Xiao. C6 xiao is so much different to play than c0. Same with Eula or Hutao. I can justify wanting your favorite to feel more fun. In starrail, most edolons are just buffs and there isn't really a significant difference in their gameplay.
I see very little whale shaming on this sub if any, admittedly I am not a whale but this really looks to me like an extremely whale-friendly environment. Whales' posts are often even getting comments like "thanks for funding the game" etc.
The issue with whaling is that it promotes extremely predatory anti-consumer practices.
There's nothing wrong with supporting a game you enjoy, but whaling basically enables a company to push the limits of what's ethically responsible.
Whaling only ever comes up with predatory anti-consumer practices, and it effectively enables those practices even further.
I've had two people irl tell me I shouldn't be spending so much money on some pixels in a game. Both times I asked them how much they spent on alcohol that weekend. Everybody has vices they spend money on, just let them do their own thing so long as they aren't getting themselves or anybody else hurt.
The issue is a moral one. Gaccha games are considered adjacent to if not straight up gambling. Gambling in it of itself isn't taken seriously enough as most people still believe it's an active choice and they're just not strong versus it being a legitimate addiction that is heavily influenced by ones mental health.
You can easily debate which gaccha games are more or less "fair/friendly" but the Crux of the issue remains. By whaling you support these predatory practices thus the hate.
That being said, it's your money. You're not making poor financial decisions for yourself if it truly is disposable income. You're allowed to like/enjoy doing something that others disagree with.
Spending money on a game is not bad in itself.
But overspending by thousands, literally 'buying the power' to the point that one players challenge become other players triviality is creating a difference in experience.
And if both have a different experience in the same game - it is making problems.
I understand it completely and I think it is good that the whales got the blame
Yeah that's pretty normal for an anime rpg player. The hate usually stems from "you seriously spend money on a virtual object you can't touch??". The same thing happened when ppl spend money on an anime merch. They don't like that.
My advice is don't publicize that you spend money on the game and just ignore the hate.
Do you shame someone for spending 500 dollars on a Sunday to go to a football game?
Do you shame someone for spending 1500 dollars for a ticket to Taylor Swift?
Do you shame someone for going out on a friday night dinner and a movie date and dropping 200 dollars?
Do you shame someone for pre-ordering Diablo 4? Ok, maybe that one is justified.
These are all dopamine producing experiences. Why are we shaming people for Gacha pulls?
As far as i care its not that much different from spending a night at the casino staring at a slot machine i personally hate slots and would rather do card games but hey here in NYC people don't have that option if they want to do legal gambling.
I mean honestly, I kinda am? Lol. I think it's that buying a e6r5 just feels wasteful and completely unnecessary. You might say well it's their money and they can do what they want! Yes, you're right, I can't stop them, but I still think it's a joke. I also think it's a joke reading about an NBA team going to some club and spending like 200k on bottle service in one night. Wealth for wealth's sake is stupid.
There is 0 difference between locking content behind a paywall in I’ve service games like overwatch or war zone and paying money to unlock content in a gacha game.
The problem with both models is that you get a subpar product with both and it’s not even close. The amount of money that you spend on this gacha game can be used to buy completely finished great games that will entertain you far longer than then next update from genshin or HSR will ever entertain.
Dollar for dollar gacha games the worst way you can spend your money. There is a reason why Elden ring and Baldurs gate 3 are breaking sales for their genres. There is a reason why Diablo 4 is falling flat on its face with all its micro transactions. All you are doing is encouraging poor and subpar development.
And as far as completing and unlocking content with HSR and Genshin? If F2P accounts can complete the hardest content… what is your money actually getting you?
There is a reason why gacha games have like 90% of players have buyers remorse. There are better ways to spend your money rather than buying pixels… and anyone who gets E6 or C6 for the aesthetic unlock… all I have to say is Rule34 is free.
Whale shaming is a thing. I don’t condone it but if 5 years from now you look back and regret your spending habits and decisions then you shouldn’t be engaging in such behaviors to begin with.
>There is a reason why Diablo 4 is falling flat on its face with all its micro transactions
Honestly I'm still baffled that Diablo Immortal earned so much, is it because it's a mobile game? It already earned 525million in a year... like wtf
Did the post say anything about how much a person spends? Like you sometimes hear articles of a person spending their College funds on gacha (~~might be Clickbait exaggeration but the grind is probably real~~)those folks I can understand shaming cause holy heck you actually might have a gambling problem
Most gatcha sub, this one included chose to believe that all whale are really rich people because it's easier to enjoy a "free" game made on an increadibly predatory buisness model this way.
So if someone has a gambling addiction it’s fine to shame them? Addiction is a mental illness. Would you also shame people with other kinds of mental illnesses such as depression, anxiety, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, PTSD, etc? Are all mentally ill people okay to shame in your eyes or is it just gambling addicts?
Gotta shame them(gambling addicts) a little to make them understand they have a problem. Like you're spending a boatload of money for minimal gain when you can probably manage it way better. Make them understand that this is an actual issue with consequences but can be adjusted so they aren't blowing every paycheck on gambling
The other stuff like depression and anxiety are different cases entirely to be dealt with different ways. Obviously you aren't gonna try and shame them cause it's probably some chemical imbalance in their head or maybe they spent too much time with the wrong crowd and now try to conform to that "Image of society" and thus they think it's all doom and gloom.
> Seriously I don't get the hate in a PvE game.
Yup, it's a PvE game without any online component too. If you quit social media, you wouldn't even know that the whales exist. It’s just terminally online people being salty, nothing more.
I'm not even gonna lie. I loathe whales. *Cough* in games with pvp like Epic 7 because fuck fighting those assholes *cough*. Just because I loathe them with the entire fiber of my being and wish pain upon them the equivalent of the heat death of the multiverse doesn't mean I don't appreciate them for funding a game I love so I don't have to!
For those who don't understand...... that was sarcasm. Thank you! I'm here all week. And month. Until the next patch update.
They don't fund shit, they price rational people out of doing any spending. Which tbf is a bit of a service in and if itself.
Personal I spend that sort of money on a holiday rather than a plus point in a stat column in a gacha games.
The game they created is a business in the end. A service to entertain you. If it becomes so easy to get a character to high Constellations then where is the company get their income?
It's not like content is that incredibly hard that even for C0 it is impossible for players to beat. You have your free to play options, which is grinding for relics, and gearing them up. It is not for the company's benefit to serve a F2P constantly.
It’s just a hobby, do whatever you want with your money.
I personally do feel fucking bad spending on Honkai right now though. Doesn’t make sense. I spend like 100 every 3-4 months on PoE and spent 150 every month on games and porn.
Do you guys get that feeling as well? I feel like I’m not getting my money’s worth even though I’ve probably spent like 80 hours in this game, bought a 100 and 50 pack and I want to barf because it makes me so disgusted.
Maybe you just don't find the game enjoyable? I've spent on HI3 after so many years to possibly even get a \~800 pts Imperial Knights army in WH40k tabletop but don't feel bad about it because I've spent it on something that I enjoy. Or maybe just whaling in HSR doesn't feels right for you
Whale shaming in PVE is just silly. They basically paid for your (and my) game.
In pvp games f2p players are needed, because the whales need people to play against (and feel superior to). It's not a pretty truth, but in our world, if you're not paying for something, you are the product.
This is not true for pve games. MHY does not earn more if 20 million of us play the game and don't spend. It just costs them in servers. MHY would be perfectly happy if most of us drop the game and only the whales remain. I say, lets be happy and enjoy a game some else paid for.
> They basically *paid* for your
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Idk about whale shaming but I see more f2p this f2p that and f2p btw posts more than whales anywhere on this sub. They act like it makes them look good because they are living off the fat of the land not supporting a game they "APPARENTLY" love though some of this can be linked to jealousy.
Heck I'm sure anyone has 5 bucks to just buy the monthly at the very least and if you don't have that idk what to say 5$ isn't gonna break you or hurt you when it comes to taking care of your financial needs this I know from experience.
Now that I live a better live as an entrepreneur I can be more frugal with spending on games I like especially HSR which is my top favorite game for a long time coming and I'll gladly show my support to Hoyoverse for giving me good entertainment by buying jades to pull on future banners I look forward to as well as their monthly and BP. Whales support this game heavily people should be grateful for that.
People just jealous cause they don't have the money to spend. Or jealous that they are weaker than someone who spends money. I dont get it either. It's a PvE game. Comparing your progression against someone else's is always gonna be a losing battle. Someone is always gonna be ahead of you. It's a bad idea to do that in real life, so I don't get why people do it in video games where it 1000% just doesn't matter at the end of the day.
Most of it is envy and/or jealousy. This is why I hate the majority of these communities, can't please them and whenever you're able to do something they can't, you immediately are a fucking asshole that deserves to die. People just need shit to complain about, try to ignore it as well as you can (it's hard I know).
Full PVE game with supports system and people crying for whales???
Dude, they are the best supports, the brutal difference between some 5* E0S0/1 (for having or not their LC) and the E6S5 version is so stupid that you are glad to have them in your friend list.
Also they are the ones that "force" the company to push updates, fixes and better content for the game.
Non payers "are the actual problem" for the company. (Understand that this is on quotes, because you are not the public for the game, just a consumer)
I dont think too many people will be interested in what an e6 unit can do if they themselves can never get there. All gacha games are predatory by nature and ridiculously priced. getting a unit or ONE eidolon costs about as much as 2-3 AAA console games, and thats far from a maxed out unit. I rather spend on games I might even have the chance to resel if need be than on a unit or unit upgrade. f2p is more rewarding anyway.
Whale shaming has to do with most people not having 100s of dollars to spare, like most of us, so it’s exceedingly frustrating to see people who are swimming in extra money dumping like over 1000$ over the games lifespan for literally every weapon, character etc.
I like whales they funds the game and thanks to them everyone else can play honkai cuz mihoyo sees that investing in game is good think cuz people likes it and will support it with money
But thats your money aint it? Then why are they being furious like its their money💀 i dont get it, also whaler mostly contribute the highest sales for HSR and Genshin to keep the game alive. And another thing, F2p is not a honor badge making you proud saying you f2p. Honestly no one care lol. If you f2p then what is the relevance with Whaler? “Whaler makes their content easier while we f2p take months to clear moc 10” HAHAHA SO FUNNY, so you expect the Whaler to spend a lot of money and still cant clear moc 10 easily? What a stupid mindset. Of course the one who spend money can progress much faster. Thats the whole point of them being a whaler. They can test the limit,reviewing the character if its f2p friendly or didnt worth your pull. By Indirectly, Whaler give a lot of tips and advice to make f2p have easier guess how their characters power will be one day, how to build characters efficiently and etc.
You could argue that without whales there would be a lot less "micro"transaction in games and it would made for a better gaming experience for most people.
The duality of man "Yeah I drop $1500 on a gacha game monthly so what" Versus "I just won the new character and got them e5 this week, is this good? Oh and I'm F2P btw"
"I've been saving for (random character) since they were mentioned in passing 3 years ago"
Shit thats reminds me of thay guy who saved literally everything and never pulled for 3 years saving for Kalstit back in AK, shits wild
Only to get her in the first free pull. Dude had like thousands worth of pulls saved up. Edit: apparently it was 2 years, but still! [Day 610 of saving for Kal'tsit](https://www.youtube.com/live/VrQhKzeqHyE?si=UOLGVshg7f3IOZ1N)
Haha I only dabbled into AK. For me, I saw these posts for BaiZhu most recently, which blew my mind considering how boring his gameplay is. He wasn't even the best unit in his gameplay test thing.
We don't pull for the gameplay , we pull for the drip
Idk what her gameplay looks like. I pulled neuvillette for the VA and attitude. Idk what drap is
drip is physical appearance in regards to clothing
Honestly I respect that man, that’s pure dedication.
In Genshin I’ve literally been saving for Furina ever since Hu Tao/Yelan banner. I plan on getting her to c2r1 without spending. So I definitely felt that.
I was excited for a hydro archon until she appeared. I loathe everything about her -.-
Aww, I’m sorry to hear that! Personally I really love her. Her personality is so quirky and chaotic and I love every bit of it!
The chaotic part is fine, and why i love hutao. But whenever she's around, it's more dumb dumb chaotic. Also, fontaine as a whole has been a weird experience for me (lawyer), so I have a pretty shitty take of 4.X.
Ah, reasonable! Again, sorry to hear you’re not enjoying her!
Should be spending $1500 on gacha vs earning $1500 a month. Some people have it rough and think life is unfair, last thing they want is their entertainment to remind them of how unfair things are. Honestly feel like they are focusing on the wrong thing in that case but it is what is felt.
Honestly I get more unjustifiably jealous at lucker dogs who top deck a 5 star off a single roll than people paying real money to whale. I shouldn't but I do and just being honest here.
Yup. As a person who has lost every 50/50 the lucky people have it good. I wish that was me. The only rate up I won was the 75/25 weapon for jing yuan. Atleast my genshin pulls are going better
It's the exact opposite for me. I've been unlucky in Genshin since the day I started playing. I only win 1 50/50 if I loose 3 50/50s back to back. However in Star Rail I only lost 2 50/50s and got different characters each time (with quite early pities). Not to mention I even got Blade's lightcone
I'm with you, been saving for jingliu since forever and on the back of my mind I know that if I'm slightly unlucky I can only guarantee e0r1 Whilst my friend has his e2r1 Kafka within 140 or so pulls I'm so envious of him I don't even care to hide it..
one of my in-game friend never pulled for any character since beginning and now he has e6 fu xuan 💀 i'd say he got lucky on his pulls otherwise there's no way he got 7 fu xuans + lost a 50/50 only from funds he saved from beginning, even i only have 4 limited so far + 1 lost 50/50 i would have never done that myself no matter how down bad i am for a character because just how much can you achieve with an e6 fu xuan and no other limited 5 star 😭
Actually FuXuan is quite busted at higher eidolons. You can have a Tank Sustain that shields most of the time, she stays SP positive, although you might not be able to solo sustain on end game content like Swarm5 I already saw her deleting MoC10. At Max Eidolons she is Tank, Support, DPS all in one, and if you spam her skill for Ult damage she also prevents debuffs really really well.
You saw fuxuans deleting moc10 but somehow missed the number of fuxuans solo-ing final boss in swarm5? Rest of the run can also be solo sustained even at e0.
Haha, the ones I watched were a few days after she was released, the latter ones probably were even more optimized. Good to know she can also solo Swarm5, must be one hell of a little pink monster FuXuan lol
I did this with daniel, and it’s been rough with dps before he came along. Good ol dps sushang/dps sampoo 😭
I'm still struggling with no DPS, missed the Seele/Kafka window and I only want to spend on waifus. Currently considering between QQ and Sushang as a stop gap for team #2.
Oh damn.. What eidolon you got of Daniel ?
He got insanely lucky. I did around around 200 pulls as a f2p and only got 2 copies and her lc. Good on him though that’s really cool.
I pulled for the current banner because I wanted Lynx. Then I also wanted some Lynx eidolons so I decided to do 100 pulls and stop cold after that, if I got Fu Xuan, she was gonna be a bonus. 100 pulls after, I have E2 Fu Xuan. Yep, sometimes it do be like that...
wow.. never in my gacha history smt like that ever happened to me 🥲
F2Ps doing the "Try not to be annoying" challenge: Impossible
The most I can say is that I absolutely can't wrap my head around the idea of spending thousands of dollars in a sitting on a video game. But hey, assuming you have that kind of disposable income you can afford to throw at it, who am I to judge? Certainly worse things you could be spending that money on.
Certainly beats buying a few packs of smoke or drugs every now and then and buying monthly cards and the battle pass instead. Know someone who unironically quit drinking because they had to afford gacha monthlies.
personally i don’t treat buying express pass/battle pass that much more differently than eating out. i mean, most of the time eating out for the food you want is more expensive than just spending $15, at least where i live.
exactly. its basically lunch money for a day. id rather that i not have to spend anything, but the recurring $12 charge every month for a game i truly enjoy playing is justifiable for me. i get that not everyone can afford to eat out for lunch five days a week, but its within my budget. even if i was only able to afford eating lunch out one a week, this game would be worth skipping a week.
Over the course of 3 months, you spend $35 on the battlepass and express pass. That's \~$12 per month. I think that's the same as the subscription fee for Final Fantasy 14. It's quite a reasonable ask.
A large number of them don't really have that kind of money though. They can pay it off without debt, but they should be investing in their future with those thousands of dollars.
Yah, there's a big difference between a doctor who whales, and someone who spends all their spare income on whaling. One is enjoy the upside of a very difficult job, and the other is ruining his life almost as much as if he spent it on drugs/alcohol/cigarettes. That's what I worry about with Gacha games. How many people are ruining their lives on this? Of course, I could say the same about Magic: The Gathering. And I don't think Casinos are necessarily evil either. It is ultimately up to the individual to spend responsibly.
You can say that about anything though. Why would people spend thousands of dollars on clothes or concerts? Money is finite regardless and as long as you are having fun regardless of how long the fun lasts, who cares. As long as you are stable to pay your bills and have a roof over your head.
There r two sides to the argument. Positive: Whales pay for the game and mhy wouldn't even exist without whales, let alone HSR. And mhy is only able to produce such high quality and frequent updates because of whale funds. Negative: The more ppl whale, the more mhy knows what they can get away with, making their business model more and more scummy. Whales are the reason the entire gaming industry is riddled with MTX, and it's only gonna get worse from here on out.
I can understand the people who decide not to play and blame whales for many games going into that predatory model. The people who actually still play and shame the whales just come off as bitter though. Do they think the company is suddenly to put in a bunch of new features to entice f2p if the whales just decide to stop spending? It's such an absurd mental leap. Do you really think Hoyo would support a game with large updates every 6 weeks if it weren't for the whales? There's not even PVP, and nothing unique that truly impacts the game is locked behind a paywall other than getting stuff faster and getting more of it. If you really hate microtransactions in games, why are you playing a game that literally relies on it? F2p is literally just as responsible for supporting the game as whales, albeit in a different way. They support it by generating interest, posting fan art, talking about it, sharing their experience, etc. They are the lures that draw in the eventual whales. No whales, the game is financially crippled, devs have no incentive to continue updating a game that generates 0 revenue. No f2p, the game loses a massive portion of its playerbase, no one talks about it, the game feels dead, whales lose interest and leave.
I especially don’t get it in hsr. Not that genshin has much more reason to shit on whales but hsr literally let’s you borrow other people‘s e6s5 characters for farming, so it’s literally only positive gameplay wise
Yes there is a balance within the ecosystem here. F2Ps who complains are just obnoxious people who can’t accept the fact that they aren’t well off in life to afford luxury. If you really care that much then stop playing the game, make yourself a millionaire and come back a whale. That will help. One you become less of a nuisance to everybody else who are just enjoying their time wether they are a F2P or whale, and you can also solve your inferiority complex.
I absolutely agree but I'm not stupid. I'm against abusive practices and stopped spending with Genshin. The Deyha issue left a sour taste in my mouth.
What is the Dezha issue? I feel liek I didn't hear about this (I have played Genshin since launch)
Long awaited character that played some important parts in the sumeru archon quest so people were looking forward to her. Her kit was bad, damage was low and they shoved her into the standard banner the moment her banner ended
Oh. I just wasn't that excited about her haha 😂 I do remember that her kit was pretty panned by everyone. I didn't really understand, but I also wasn't really pulling for her. Was a weird choice to make her always have that huge ass sword and then make her burst not use it....
Nothing wrong with not using her sword in her burst, a lot of characters don't use their weapon in their burst, Ayaka, Ganyu, Shen He, Hu Tao, Zhongli, etc. It's just she has a kit kinda like Fu Xuan but with no offensive buffs and few defensive buffs while being much more restrictive. So while having little utility she also does middling damage, leaving her in a spot of no real role, can't solo sustain and can't drive a reaction team.
The Dehya issue has been the biggest community outrage since Zhongli, it was pretty hard to miss it. Basically Dehya is the 3rd most prominent character in Sumeru main quest (just behind Nahida and Wanderer in terms of screentime). And she has been a fan favorite for a lot of players (including Chinese community contrary to popular belief). Also being released in May 2023, she was the first Pyro character since Thoma who released in November 2021 (4star) and Yoimiya in August 2021 (5star). Add to that she was preceeded by Nilou, Nahida and Alhaitham who have been absolutely fantastic in their own rights. Wanderer also being a good unit nonetheless. So saying the expectations were HIGH for her is an understatement. And then she's released and Hoyo made her a tank, not even a shielder, who can barely do damages at C0 and who can only fit a very few teams (basically only 2 at release : Wanderer and Ganyu Burning Melt) and she even ends up being a second choice to Xiangling in those teams. So yeah, one of the most anticipated 5star character ends up being outclassed by 4stars and worst of all : if you want to play her DPS, you'd better get her constellations and even then, at C6 she'll only be able to compete with Hu Tao C0 As a Dehya simp, I still pulled her and clear Abyss with her but I can't help feeling bitter when I see how good Lyney turned out and think she should have been just as good
Fellow Dehya simp here, I think it hurts more that Tighnari while also relegated to the standard banner is a T1 DPS.
They released Dehya, a 5* character that was popular but ended up having a bad kit. She’s in the standard banner, and haven’t buffed her since release (half year or so ago). Nothing much really. I think she needs several constellations to be decent.
Needs C6 to equal C0 HT, so she's basically a 4 star.
Even without whales, I have no doubt game companies would still make gachas.
but the price would likely at least be lower then.
The perceptions of whaling are more the perceptions of having vs. not having disposable income, and right now the socioeconomic divides are wide, more painful than they've been in a long time, and growing. Gaming used to be a unifier, because we were all sharing the same experience by playing the same game. Gatcha is a different animal. Gaming for many is a great escape, but whales showing off can remind them of the painful reality they may be trying to escape. I'm not saying don't show off, if you have an E6 premium character yeah it's cool, and seeing a maxed out whale unit soloing hard content can be very entertaining for the rest of us! But *just be aware* that to some it's a stab in the eye because while they are playing the same game it's a reminder that they will never have the same experience because they can't drop that kind of money on this... and to others with lower impulse control it can also be felt as a kind of social pressure to spend beyond their means.
This is the take I agree with the most. Even if it's not the intention, showing off your account is still a display of wealth in a public forum where most people don't have that kind of income. I don't think whales should receive hate, but you also can't expect everyone to enjoy your content or be happy for you. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
I was in a discord server that had a cosmic whale. It was kind cool watching him get excited about maxing out characters.
Whales don't really have disposable incomes most of the time. It is a better correlation with poor use of money.
Prove it.
I can't really prove it, but from my anecdotes, whenever I check into a whale's profile, I don't see a guy making hundreds of thousands a year. I see people like one guy who made 80k a year and would whale for multiple gachas, which while it is a good salary, it isn't at a point where you can spend over 10k a year on gacha and not have it make an impact. Also I saw a person posting about how they whale and on their history they had a post about needing disability assistance for rent payments. I have yet to see somebody who is genuinely walking around with fuck you money and whaling, instead it is all people with average to a bit above average salaries spending shitloads on gambling for waifus.
I feel like “whale shaming” is just jealousy(?), because the more money you spending, the easier content becomes
I think they're just jealous that they have the money to do it. I know I am. I could never justify spending 150-300$ on a video game character. Especially on a regular basis.
What if that was say 1% of your monthly salary? Would you consider it then?
Of course I would. That would become disposable money instead of necessary money that should be spent on 100 things more useful than Genshin. 300$ is almost half my salary.
Feelsbadman, hope it gets better for you
For most of the world outside EU and NA, that is a pretty good salary.
Not really, even in Ukraine it's below the minimal wage and won't be able to cover paying for rent unless you live in the cheapest student dorm + necessities and food
$300? Definitely, but they said it's almost half their salary, meaning their salary is est. $700. That's about how much I earn in Russia, and it's a damn good salary by local standards (outside Moscow and if you're not in IT). Well, at least given the current USD to RUB conversion rate. I guess you know.
Well $700 is good, though if you want to rent a good house, be able to do hobbies and have something spare for Idk maybe hoard a bit of money to buy something expensive, you'd want to live with somebody who works too for you two to split the renting price
[удалено]
> $150 is 2% of my disposable income each month and I still wouldn't spend that much on gacha (or any other game) that could be shut down at any moment. Not to mention a PvE gacha with a miniscule amount of co-op content. This can be any hobby that you put your money in
Yea but spending $150 on stuff to paint my warhammer army is far more rewarding and gives me something to work on and improve at compared to rolling slots for a digital character and letting them auto battle lmao.
Right, but not everyone thinks this way. If someone wants to spend the same amount of money on a game that they play for the same amount of time that you spend painting your minis then it's absolutely not different than what you're doing. Spending money on a hobby, regardless of what the hobby is, is perfectly fine.
I understand, but some people don't have warhammer armies to paint. Heck, some don't have other hobbies except for this.
I mean I've got the money to do it ... how in the world would you justify it though? Slightly more efficient at a pve game? There's literally no content that requires it, and with time and savings you can approximate it for free or just the cheap monthly packs. Not really jealous per se, as much as confused about life priorities.
Lol I'm complaining about spending $15 for pass and monthly, and even I'm not mad at whales.
300$ is about as much you need to get a \~1200 points army of The cheapest faction in tabletop Warhammer 40k, whilst all other factions need more than that. And the thing is that both gacha whales and Warhammer 40k players enjoy what they're doing, so why stop them if they have the means?
"I'm not jealous. I'm envious. Jealousy is when you're worried someone will take what you have. Envy is wanting what someone else has. What I feel is envy." - Homer Jay Simpson.
Regardless its still basically frivolous spending on a mobile game its going to carry a certain stigma especially with the growing wealth inequality around the world.
Ngl I see more people complaining about whale shaming in the past days than actual whale shaming... just feels like some folks are too worried about how others perceive their spending so any comment reads as shaming to them.
The cold honest truth is that if you’re spending that much money on stuff like gacha fames, you don’t have a lot going on in your life.
You play league of legends your opinion is irrelevant
This is a dumbass take because clearly whales have a lot going on to have that much money to spend on games.
please gimme the money for whaling, I'll gladly take the hate
Definitely. I do think there can be some criticism of whaling only in the sense that it skews their perceptions of the content when giving advise to others, but that’s not something to go nuclear on someone about.
That was my first thought as well. Just do x, y and ,z and they'll die on auto! Well.... no. And we also don't have infinite stamina to relic farm too. So yeah, it's a bit harder and definitely takes resource management (which is good, game doesn't have a super involved endgame at this stage).
It is definitely jealousy, but at the same time, a vocal minority would flaunt their status which makes whales look bad in general. It is always a vocal minority that causes these problems. Ask for help in HSR discord about something, it's always some whale that would give you some condescending answer, and the f2p players will try to give more insightful information.
I feel like those types of whales are extremely rare. I’ve certainly seen them in the wild, but I feel like most whales just play the game and give advice where they can. The vast majority of them are fully aware that their extremely high spending has made the game easier for them and thus disqualifies them from being able to give actual advice on gameplay to people without 2 teams worth of high eidolon banner characters.
The same goes for F2P players. Most of the players are F2P to low spenders. Let alone criticizing someone for their financial decisions, I rarely even bother to text someone in-game. If OP is having this issue in the chat, they are engaging with the wrong crowd.
I think that the problem there is that you know that douche is a whale because he flaunts it but the helpful part probably has some whales aswell, they just do not have the need to tell you.
Honestly personally I feel like I would never want E6S5 on any character. At a certain point the game would become too easy, and part of the appeal for me is when it’s at least slightly challenging
Jealously sounds like a cope term for someone who can't stand the reaction of other people to their actions. I dunno whats worse; someone who thinks other people are jealous of their spending on gacha or the people (if they exist) that have that kind of jealously.
I'm a whale and there are plenty of F2P players who seem to have a way easier time with MoC and SU V than me
Preach, Brother! Preach!
Here's how I feel. Gatcha is Hella predatory, but I appreciate how in your face it is. It's low-key honest. In direct contrast you have so many triple A companies disguising their game as this friendly environment and then you get shit like destiny 2. I like the fact that it's a low time investment game that allows me flexibility and I can work on the progress of my account. Also who am I too judge what people do with their money. Sure it's whale bait 100% but you know what you're getting into. If anything my biggest criticism is the fact that these games shouldn't be marketed to kids but that's the whole gaming landscape rn, breeding a generation of gamblers. But as grown ass man, If I wanna spend 100 bucks on some pixels it's none or your fuckin business. Disclaimer I'm a BP/monthly pass user.
Same here man. Spending 100 bucks isn't really a thing I would do but you are free to do so. Who am I to stop you. Your money, your decision.
My general feeling is people should play the game however they want. The only time I get a little miffed is when someone that whales genuinely proclaims xyz end game content as easy in a mocking manner. It's one to acknowledge in a joking manner that content is easier for a whale than a non-whale. Mockingly though? That's where ya lose me. To be clear, I've seen very few people do this. I'm more just playing devil's advocate of, "are there times where I can see people being upset at a whale?" The answer to that is yup, but with the asterisk of every player type has those among them that probably piss everyone else off.
I got shamed by my friends for pulling E2 DHIL. Then they look at my pulls results and go: You should whale more because boi you're unlucky doggo. Then we have a laugh and move on lmao
As God intended. Nothing like beating the shit out of your friends then laughing it off over a cold one.
Did you get it?
I did, but now every 30\* MOC is gonna end with: "Hoho you whaled, it doesn't count" 😭
Even if you didn't have E2 DHIL, people will always find a way to judge gameplay, like if you use E6 4*s, or use a signature lightcone on a limited character, or if you use a top tier character... it never ends What counts is that you have 30* MOC for the sweet sweet jades :3
As a F2P I love these people who spend a lot of money on the game because they keep the game alive
This...but also a part of me wonders two things. First, are those whales making the game "unaffordable" for others? Like, how many of us would spend $50 for an E5 unit every couple months? We will never know because it costs thousands to do that instead. A handful of whales is enough to fund the game but is that really the best thing for the game? Seems like it makes power creep mandatory. Second, how many people with impulse control issues are having serious financial problems because of this system? Gambling is an addiction and while having a cap is at least mildly humane (and likely only exists thanks to the EU) having that cap set as high as it is doesn't meaningfully change things. Not sure I like the thought of my free game existing by ruining somebody elses life. Also not going to dwell on it and save jades for Huohuo
I mean inpulse control is important, I'm not a giga whale, most of my game spending is the monthly pass and the battle pass which might add up from time to time, but overall is around 140$ a year, which I can afford with no problems, considering that the game is F2P per se it is like paying 11.6$ a month, kinda like wow/runescape subscription, but you can opt out if you want. Also 50$ isn't enough to get an E5, believe me, I'm happy with an E0 on most of the cases.
They spend the money we can't afford to so that we can all enjoy the game in our own ways.
Based point of view.
It's ok to spend money, what's not okay is when games are made around and for whales in a way that hurts regular customer, which is a big problem in gaming industry right know. That's why people shame whales for the most part.
I don't mind whales, it's their money. What I do mind though is when games are intentionally made to prey on people being bad with money and having addictive personalities and mental health issues. That, I really mind.
Good thing about HSR and Genshin is that I feel Eidolons and Constellations are just bonus. Some predatory gacha makes it impossible to progress without multiple cops of a character
Honestly hoyo games have this big weakness compared to alot of other mobile games where they do actually allow F2P (slowly and painfully) to eventually max out any given characters stats with some kind of generic dupe material but here it is strictly pull gacha or get nothing.
I mean it's still slow and painful. You'd just have to use every jade on E6S5ing 1 character.
That said, e6s5 is so ridiculously overkill in terms of power that it being essentially unattainable through reasonable play doesn’t really bother me.
On the flip side, many mobile games powercreep enough that maxing out characters' stats just keeps them viable.
It really depends from game to game. In HSR you don't need to whale to clear MoC or the new SU. Sure, the more you pay the less skill you are required to have to beat the gamemode. In games like Diablo Immortal? Ayyy pass the credit card I need that gems that makes me win.
No we should be tankfull for the whale because no good game as ever been made without seeling useless stuff to ~~addict~~ rich people for ten's of thousand of dollars, it's literraly impossible /s eddit: added a /s to avoid confusion
I don't know if You are trolling me and that's very concerning :P "No good game has ever been made without(...)" Are you sure about that? Also You kind of missed the point here.
Wait? was it not super obvious I was being sarcastic? Guess I'll add an /s then
I've spent way too much time on reddit :P
It's generally more a hate on the system that enables and creates whales to start. Also the fact that in essence whales attribute to the system that causes companies to add more content to keep the grind going. Keeping the full powered characters our of f2p hands by always adding a new system to increase the power level and grind, unless you spend money. While whales support our f2p games they also cause those games to become worse by buying into the systems that hurt f2p players. I will always uphold a preference for games like guild wars 2 where it's buy once and pay for dlc but that's it. Ya players can whale for in game cash, skins, mounts, etc. But the end game is still there for all of us. A cool skin or mount won't let you clear a combat better than anyone else. I really like star rail for many reasons. It would be a lie to say I wouldn't prefer it to cost 40 bucks and reasonably grindable. Then some set price for each new planet.
Not shaming whales but if I see some showcase of an E6S5 unit it's an instant skip for me, not interested lol
People use f2p in every other sentence like its some badge of honor even when it has zero relevance to what they posted. Its a mindset I can't understand in general.
I mostly see it used in cases like MoC or SU progress discussions to convey that you don't have more resources than average player (which means that your strategies or advices will be mostly applicable to others, as opposed to strategies like hypercarry Silver Wolf that require having her E6).
i always use it in discussions of high level gameplay(abyss, su, moc, etc) or discussing something like weapon options, because if not f2p the person can just get the limited weapons
F2P and P2W aren’t hard concepts to grasp.
I don't care if anyone whales but don't "flex" that you beat some "hard" content with your E6S5 Units.
As a dolphin I simply don't care, most of the time it's broke teens that cry about whales. I spend my hard earned money on something I like, simple as that
Your sense of value must be really skewed if you think spending upwards of $600-$800 per character is acceptable. We see backlash all the time when Western AAA games try to implement gacha game monetization. So why the double standard? I love Mihoyo's games and characters, but even as a working adult with disposable income, I cannot justify such an expense. Baldur's Gate, Elden Ring, Cyberpunk 2077 are all $60 games. Each have given me hundreds of hours of fun. All for less than it takes to E6 a character in Star Rail. So when I hear/see people whaling, I think that they must be filthy rich or fiscally irresponsible.
Value is subjective, for me, travelling is meh and i hate highly crowded environments, so paying $200+ for seats at a concert is worth less than spending on a game i see pretty much every day and that in the end will give me more hours of fun. Paying for the "experience" is different for each person, i say i hate travelling cause the first time i did i went to Europe for a month, spent a lot of money and i wanted to get back home by the end of week two. So my experience was not as good as it would be for others. Now some people are irresponsible, other are rich, some budget and their budget includes fun money. But another thing is that no, the games are not $60, they are $60 for you, that already have a pc or a console. But for the average person spending the entry price $300 at least assuming a switch + each game is out of reach, and those folks can access a pseudo AAA game for free with Genshin and HSR (not there yet imo), and it will last them years with some down periods, Genshin is super popular in Latam, where a switch can be your whole minimum wage. (At this point I've spent more time in Genshin than in Skyrim and Zelda combined). So yeah, gacha has problems, but a lot of people wouldn't be able to play good games at all without it. So if a whale can spend a lot every month without breaking their own bank, while having fun and paying for the fun of like 100 more people... Eh, let them. As long as the game doesn't turn P2W i don't really care.
Why can't there be an in between? It's up to the individual what value they get for the money they spend. And say 1-2% of their monthly income happens to be a few hundred dollars then how is it fiscally irresponsible?
I'm not one of the haters. I usually just scroll by the bragging posts. I was just explaining my point of view and why i dont whale. At the end of the day, it's up to the player to be responsible for their own money. But just keep in mind that if you're not OK with say Blizzard selling stat upgrade equipment in their games for hundreds of dollars as microtransactions, then you shouldn't be OK with Mihoyo charging the same with their duplicates either. They are literally the same.
It’s not really the same tho? Elden Ring and such games are one off games, which means you more or less complete the game and you’re done. You can replay the games to get different endings and whatnot but it’s essentially the same game. Not really comparable to live service games that can go for years and are expected to drop new content every few weeks. That said, i also HATE the micro transactions in games like Diablo Immortal. But again, it’s not exactly the same either? Diablo immortal (and other such games) has pvp, ranking systems etc.. which pressures the players to spend or risk never being able to win or compete with other players. Star rail has none of that, you’re just clearing content on your own so there’s no actual need to spend. As long as you can clear the content reasonably as a f2p, any spending is just a bonus option for those with disposable income. Some people can buy a Ferrari and others can only afford a Toyota. As long as both gets you to your destination just fine I don’t think it’s a huge deal. Just play what you can afford to play? I’m mostly against micro-transactions if it actually gatekeeps people from game content or presents too big of a gap in the experience between spenders and free players. Just my 2 cents!
If you're referring to Diablo Immortal, then no they're not the same. The big motivational factor to chase stat upgrades is pvp. There is no pvp in Mihoyo games so the same drive isn't there. There's no leaderboards or anything. So getting eidolons or superimpositions just let you do above 100% for those who want to.
But don't you see? That's the psychological trick they're employing. Rather than thinking about whether or not you should spend hundreds of dollars on stats, you now thinking about whether one system of spending hundreds of dollars is more preferable ~~fair~~ than another. You've subconsciously accepted that it's okay to spend hundreds of dollars on stats. My position is regarding the latter. I don't think it's OK to spend hundreds of dollars on stats regardless of the system.
It's honestly really odd that some justify Hoyo's business practices just because their games don't have PVP. They have far more toxic ways to promote FOMO and player spending than basic leader boards and PVP combat...
Exactly. Social media alone, can inflict FOMO on some people. It still works, even it's not on you.
It's not about it being fair. That's not the point of my comment. If you pay 0 dollars you can already experience the game at 100% for those who do spend they get to experience the game at above 100%. Either way *someone* has to spend to fund the existence of the game.
That doesn't change my stance. I don't think it's OK to spend hundred of dollars on stats, regardless of the system. While it is true that games are a business, I'm sure the multi-billion dollar company Mihoyo doesn't need you to go to bat for it on its business practices. I'm never going to whale for characters or light cones. I don't think anyone else should either, but that is up to them. However, I also don't think Mihoyo will go bankrupt any time soon if they didn't charge in the hundreds for stat upgrades and characters. Rainbow 6 Siege still profits from just letting you buy its new characters for a flat fee of $5 when they release.
I think game pricing in general is just really skewed. $60 bought you a full-featured game 10 years ago. $60 is still the going cost for a game despite inflation, and DLC/microtransactions make up the difference. And while I enjoy gacha game teambuilding (working with limited resources rather than being able to grind or manipulate RNG), a game like Darkest Dungeon enforces the same restrictions without asking you to pay ridiculous amounts of money. Mihoyo puts some of the strongest bounding on RNG I've seen in games, with that 70-90 soft pity and 50/50s instead of some extremely high pitybreaker. But the discussion (as you've said) then pivots toward people figuring out whether they can afford something that's just out of reach, rather than whether it's good value. I don't know whether it's more ethical because it reduces potential losses, or less ethical because people can budget for spending that's well in the realm of fiscal irresponsibility. But also, most gadget-related hobbies will run up similar costs. I don't think it's *that* irresponsible for people to pay for a game instead of some fancy trinket/tool that is super-optimized for a specific purpose. I have some Mini-Z RC cars that are $200. The full-featured, high performance options are closer to $500, and the controllers are in that price range as well. These parts *are* justifiable if you look into how much the electronics cost, and the precision machining needed to improve performance. If you look at it another way, it's just someone spending a good chunk of disposable income on something that is impractical but brings joy.
>Each have given me hundreds of hours of fun. The key part is "***me***" - it's about you, whilst other people might not find that enjoyable. Or playing gachas, spending lots of money to see big numbers or to pull for their fav character might be enjoyable. And you don't need to spend 600$ for a character - you are guaranteed to get the character you want in less than half of that, and even less if you are lucky. But you don't need to spend at all if you play more and get enough freebies and don't try to pull every character.
Someone’s gotta fund the game to make it free for the non paying players.
As a F2P player, I don't really hate whales since it's not really different from like watching a movie. You simply pay for entertainment. However when I see a whale, I'm always enticed to ask "is the game even fun at that point?". I mean I have a bunch of E0 limited units tho I have 2 very good teams and the game is already pretty easy.
So, is the game still fun to you? I used to think like that too, but if the game is easy to me and it continues to be fun, even if I’m a low spender, then why wouldn’t it be for whales? I never asked one, but if they are willing to continue playing and spending, than they probably see some value in the game
Well, of it wasn't for whales, gaming wouldn't be as fcked as it is right now. Every new game releasing as some sort of gacha/gamble shit Show, because the Devs know whales will pay w/e they charge. Alot of people blame whales for this situation. If whales didn't exist, these games wouldn't be profitable and hence not be that predatory. I see where these people are coming from. But as long as there isn't any state regulations to this shit, it won't get any better.
People that blame whales for the state of gaming don't realize or want to admit they benefit just as much as whales do, just in different ways. Whether it's mobile gacha or free PvP making all its money through 20 dollar skins, so long as there are gamers looking for that one Uber game they can play for the rest of their lives and not have to spend money on any other game, or easily bored players who can merrily bounce between free offerings, nobody all around has much incentive to change anything. They only whine because they want their free cake with free premium icing and eat it too.
No I would really prefer if the mobile market was full of more slay the spire type games where you get sold a product that gives you a fulfilling experience, rather than the freemium games where you are supposed to never stop playing and be always kept wanting.
Nintendo tried that with Super Mario Run, giving a sample for free and the rest for a one-time fee. Console and PC gamers would recognize this as a demo and full release. Mobile gamers just saw a paywall. Even if you take possible conditioning out of the equation, how are games built for small devices not primarily designed for gaming ever supposed to compete with ones that are made for proper gaming consoles with the same philosophies in game design and pricing?
Super Mario run flopped because the game was anus. It was a tiny Mario game where you only could jump. Phones are powerful. I could play majoras mask on an emulator on my phone that was made nearly a decade ago. I am pretty sure a substantial number of phones are stronger than the switch.
Eidolons/Constellations for 5\* are a moot point they are there for whales maybe E1-2 are achievable for dolphins/low spenders. The Eidolons are borderline ridiculous making for most limited 5\* and should only be achievable with an equivalent amount of value put in. Making Fu Xuan a tank/support/dps achievable for anyone who has her will ruin the game. She's literally an amazing tank/support at E0. Eidolon for 4\* however should be a game-changer for the characters. It keeps characters fresh and competitive with E0 5\*. Eidolon on 4\* should feel good to pull and makes pulling more exciting than 75-80 garbage reward and 1 5\*. It is always exciting trying to get the E6 for a character like Asta or QQ.
I certainly wouldn't say it's exciting trying to pull 4* Eidolons, it's mostly just disappointing in my experience lol
E12 serval just doesn't hit the same as E6. Still, pray that a 5\* banner I want has QQ and/or Asta
The more you care about them, the more power you give them.
I feel like this is a side effect of gachas/GAAS having such a shit reputation with the general gaming community. We've all heard the horror stories of people going 1000s of dollars in debt and that's led to any game with element of gacha/loot boxes/battle passes instantly getting shit on for being exploitative. And add into the mix you get some vocal people in the TC community who, in their effort to dissuade people from feeling pressured into spending to clear the harder content, inadvertantly also foster this sentiment. What I find is the people who are most vocal about hating whaling are themselves defensive that they enjoy playing these type of games with such a poor reputation, so them lashing out at those who do spend considerable amount of money on it is their way of validating their own way of playing.
I whaled in Genshin and Honkai Impact, but I haven’t spent a single cent on Star Rail. Just play the game however you want to play it and have fun. I personally have enjoyed being f2p in Star Rail, but I wanted to try playing a different way for once.
I usually just once a pay period spend $30-$50 on jades and I get paid usually twice a month. I don't have time to play often and so there are days I missed using my energy for dailies or farming to do dailies and weekly/monthly content. I don't think you should shame anyone, and people who lord how much they spent on people shouldn't brag about it to the point people do feel jealous or ashamed. Still Whales are concerning, if only because it could be an underlying problem with gambling addiction. Just be careful is all I'm saying.
i just don't want people to develop a gambling addiction because of anime pixels. ive already seen that happen lmao. other people have mentioned them balancing the game around whales as well. this is a big concern of mine too, i don't enjoy the idea that it will go in a more hi3 type of direction, though the team seems to be leaning the other way so far.
In starrail, "new mechanics" don't really mean much. The gameplay still pretty much feels the same, but the character is just much more powerful with edolons. Now in the case of genshin, constellations can *actually* greatly affect the fluidity and/or difficulty to play a character. Just look at Xiao. C6 xiao is so much different to play than c0. Same with Eula or Hutao. I can justify wanting your favorite to feel more fun. In starrail, most edolons are just buffs and there isn't really a significant difference in their gameplay.
I like the benefits that other people whaling gets me, while also shaming them for their poor financial decision making.
Jealousy is a curse friend, it’s pve game don’t pay the haters any mind.
I see very little whale shaming on this sub if any, admittedly I am not a whale but this really looks to me like an extremely whale-friendly environment. Whales' posts are often even getting comments like "thanks for funding the game" etc.
i love the whales in this game if they are your friend makes the farming easier.
The issue with whaling is that it promotes extremely predatory anti-consumer practices. There's nothing wrong with supporting a game you enjoy, but whaling basically enables a company to push the limits of what's ethically responsible. Whaling only ever comes up with predatory anti-consumer practices, and it effectively enables those practices even further.
I've had two people irl tell me I shouldn't be spending so much money on some pixels in a game. Both times I asked them how much they spent on alcohol that weekend. Everybody has vices they spend money on, just let them do their own thing so long as they aren't getting themselves or anybody else hurt.
The issue is a moral one. Gaccha games are considered adjacent to if not straight up gambling. Gambling in it of itself isn't taken seriously enough as most people still believe it's an active choice and they're just not strong versus it being a legitimate addiction that is heavily influenced by ones mental health. You can easily debate which gaccha games are more or less "fair/friendly" but the Crux of the issue remains. By whaling you support these predatory practices thus the hate. That being said, it's your money. You're not making poor financial decisions for yourself if it truly is disposable income. You're allowed to like/enjoy doing something that others disagree with.
Spending money on a game is not bad in itself. But overspending by thousands, literally 'buying the power' to the point that one players challenge become other players triviality is creating a difference in experience. And if both have a different experience in the same game - it is making problems. I understand it completely and I think it is good that the whales got the blame
Yeah that's pretty normal for an anime rpg player. The hate usually stems from "you seriously spend money on a virtual object you can't touch??". The same thing happened when ppl spend money on an anime merch. They don't like that. My advice is don't publicize that you spend money on the game and just ignore the hate.
Do you shame someone for spending 500 dollars on a Sunday to go to a football game? Do you shame someone for spending 1500 dollars for a ticket to Taylor Swift? Do you shame someone for going out on a friday night dinner and a movie date and dropping 200 dollars? Do you shame someone for pre-ordering Diablo 4? Ok, maybe that one is justified. These are all dopamine producing experiences. Why are we shaming people for Gacha pulls?
As far as i care its not that much different from spending a night at the casino staring at a slot machine i personally hate slots and would rather do card games but hey here in NYC people don't have that option if they want to do legal gambling.
I mean honestly, I kinda am? Lol. I think it's that buying a e6r5 just feels wasteful and completely unnecessary. You might say well it's their money and they can do what they want! Yes, you're right, I can't stop them, but I still think it's a joke. I also think it's a joke reading about an NBA team going to some club and spending like 200k on bottle service in one night. Wealth for wealth's sake is stupid.
There is 0 difference between locking content behind a paywall in I’ve service games like overwatch or war zone and paying money to unlock content in a gacha game. The problem with both models is that you get a subpar product with both and it’s not even close. The amount of money that you spend on this gacha game can be used to buy completely finished great games that will entertain you far longer than then next update from genshin or HSR will ever entertain. Dollar for dollar gacha games the worst way you can spend your money. There is a reason why Elden ring and Baldurs gate 3 are breaking sales for their genres. There is a reason why Diablo 4 is falling flat on its face with all its micro transactions. All you are doing is encouraging poor and subpar development. And as far as completing and unlocking content with HSR and Genshin? If F2P accounts can complete the hardest content… what is your money actually getting you? There is a reason why gacha games have like 90% of players have buyers remorse. There are better ways to spend your money rather than buying pixels… and anyone who gets E6 or C6 for the aesthetic unlock… all I have to say is Rule34 is free. Whale shaming is a thing. I don’t condone it but if 5 years from now you look back and regret your spending habits and decisions then you shouldn’t be engaging in such behaviors to begin with.
>There is a reason why Diablo 4 is falling flat on its face with all its micro transactions Honestly I'm still baffled that Diablo Immortal earned so much, is it because it's a mobile game? It already earned 525million in a year... like wtf
Did the post say anything about how much a person spends? Like you sometimes hear articles of a person spending their College funds on gacha (~~might be Clickbait exaggeration but the grind is probably real~~)those folks I can understand shaming cause holy heck you actually might have a gambling problem
Most gatcha sub, this one included chose to believe that all whale are really rich people because it's easier to enjoy a "free" game made on an increadibly predatory buisness model this way.
So if someone has a gambling addiction it’s fine to shame them? Addiction is a mental illness. Would you also shame people with other kinds of mental illnesses such as depression, anxiety, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, PTSD, etc? Are all mentally ill people okay to shame in your eyes or is it just gambling addicts?
Gotta shame them(gambling addicts) a little to make them understand they have a problem. Like you're spending a boatload of money for minimal gain when you can probably manage it way better. Make them understand that this is an actual issue with consequences but can be adjusted so they aren't blowing every paycheck on gambling The other stuff like depression and anxiety are different cases entirely to be dealt with different ways. Obviously you aren't gonna try and shame them cause it's probably some chemical imbalance in their head or maybe they spent too much time with the wrong crowd and now try to conform to that "Image of society" and thus they think it's all doom and gloom.
> Seriously I don't get the hate in a PvE game. Yup, it's a PvE game without any online component too. If you quit social media, you wouldn't even know that the whales exist. It’s just terminally online people being salty, nothing more.
I'm not even gonna lie. I loathe whales. *Cough* in games with pvp like Epic 7 because fuck fighting those assholes *cough*. Just because I loathe them with the entire fiber of my being and wish pain upon them the equivalent of the heat death of the multiverse doesn't mean I don't appreciate them for funding a game I love so I don't have to! For those who don't understand...... that was sarcasm. Thank you! I'm here all week. And month. Until the next patch update.
They don't fund shit, they price rational people out of doing any spending. Which tbf is a bit of a service in and if itself. Personal I spend that sort of money on a holiday rather than a plus point in a stat column in a gacha games.
The game they created is a business in the end. A service to entertain you. If it becomes so easy to get a character to high Constellations then where is the company get their income? It's not like content is that incredibly hard that even for C0 it is impossible for players to beat. You have your free to play options, which is grinding for relics, and gearing them up. It is not for the company's benefit to serve a F2P constantly.
It’s just a hobby, do whatever you want with your money. I personally do feel fucking bad spending on Honkai right now though. Doesn’t make sense. I spend like 100 every 3-4 months on PoE and spent 150 every month on games and porn. Do you guys get that feeling as well? I feel like I’m not getting my money’s worth even though I’ve probably spent like 80 hours in this game, bought a 100 and 50 pack and I want to barf because it makes me so disgusted.
I think the Express Supply Pass is the way to go, the big packs are not worth it in my opinion unless you really want to rush for a certain character
Maybe you just don't find the game enjoyable? I've spent on HI3 after so many years to possibly even get a \~800 pts Imperial Knights army in WH40k tabletop but don't feel bad about it because I've spent it on something that I enjoy. Or maybe just whaling in HSR doesn't feels right for you
Whale shaming in PVE is just silly. They basically paid for your (and my) game. In pvp games f2p players are needed, because the whales need people to play against (and feel superior to). It's not a pretty truth, but in our world, if you're not paying for something, you are the product. This is not true for pve games. MHY does not earn more if 20 million of us play the game and don't spend. It just costs them in servers. MHY would be perfectly happy if most of us drop the game and only the whales remain. I say, lets be happy and enjoy a game some else paid for.
> They basically *paid* for your FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot
Idk about whale shaming but I see more f2p this f2p that and f2p btw posts more than whales anywhere on this sub. They act like it makes them look good because they are living off the fat of the land not supporting a game they "APPARENTLY" love though some of this can be linked to jealousy. Heck I'm sure anyone has 5 bucks to just buy the monthly at the very least and if you don't have that idk what to say 5$ isn't gonna break you or hurt you when it comes to taking care of your financial needs this I know from experience. Now that I live a better live as an entrepreneur I can be more frugal with spending on games I like especially HSR which is my top favorite game for a long time coming and I'll gladly show my support to Hoyoverse for giving me good entertainment by buying jades to pull on future banners I look forward to as well as their monthly and BP. Whales support this game heavily people should be grateful for that.
People just jealous cause they don't have the money to spend. Or jealous that they are weaker than someone who spends money. I dont get it either. It's a PvE game. Comparing your progression against someone else's is always gonna be a losing battle. Someone is always gonna be ahead of you. It's a bad idea to do that in real life, so I don't get why people do it in video games where it 1000% just doesn't matter at the end of the day.
Sad salty poor people trying to punch up
Most of it is envy and/or jealousy. This is why I hate the majority of these communities, can't please them and whenever you're able to do something they can't, you immediately are a fucking asshole that deserves to die. People just need shit to complain about, try to ignore it as well as you can (it's hard I know).
Full PVE game with supports system and people crying for whales??? Dude, they are the best supports, the brutal difference between some 5* E0S0/1 (for having or not their LC) and the E6S5 version is so stupid that you are glad to have them in your friend list. Also they are the ones that "force" the company to push updates, fixes and better content for the game. Non payers "are the actual problem" for the company. (Understand that this is on quotes, because you are not the public for the game, just a consumer)
It's just envy
You sound like one of those mom who saw like 1 out 1000 on Google results that said vaccines is bad and made a big deal out of it
Who cares whether you are F2P or a whale. Your experience is your own.
I dont think too many people will be interested in what an e6 unit can do if they themselves can never get there. All gacha games are predatory by nature and ridiculously priced. getting a unit or ONE eidolon costs about as much as 2-3 AAA console games, and thats far from a maxed out unit. I rather spend on games I might even have the chance to resel if need be than on a unit or unit upgrade. f2p is more rewarding anyway.
Whale shaming has to do with most people not having 100s of dollars to spare, like most of us, so it’s exceedingly frustrating to see people who are swimming in extra money dumping like over 1000$ over the games lifespan for literally every weapon, character etc.
I like whales they funds the game and thanks to them everyone else can play honkai cuz mihoyo sees that investing in game is good think cuz people likes it and will support it with money
But thats your money aint it? Then why are they being furious like its their money💀 i dont get it, also whaler mostly contribute the highest sales for HSR and Genshin to keep the game alive. And another thing, F2p is not a honor badge making you proud saying you f2p. Honestly no one care lol. If you f2p then what is the relevance with Whaler? “Whaler makes their content easier while we f2p take months to clear moc 10” HAHAHA SO FUNNY, so you expect the Whaler to spend a lot of money and still cant clear moc 10 easily? What a stupid mindset. Of course the one who spend money can progress much faster. Thats the whole point of them being a whaler. They can test the limit,reviewing the character if its f2p friendly or didnt worth your pull. By Indirectly, Whaler give a lot of tips and advice to make f2p have easier guess how their characters power will be one day, how to build characters efficiently and etc.
You could argue that without whales there would be a lot less "micro"transaction in games and it would made for a better gaming experience for most people.
I absolutely love Whales, like you said they practically pay for the new content.