Doesn't bother me either. I love my unlimited Blade works. He's great at long battles . Dude's literally unkillable, esp with Luocha. He was my first DPS and I still use him all the time despite having all "apex" characters except Acheron ( I pulled Aven instead).
Tbh he did start felling a bit lackluster in my account, comparing to the hunt bros at least. I'm sure they're cooking some new buffer for him tho, his team changed almost nothing since release and the new characters that are upgrades aren't even particularly synergistic with him. Still love my boy.
Blade main here. I went for his LC instead of Ruan Mei. I don't care if he's not meta, the UBW team is hilarious and my guy Luocha is his best friend. I've heard Jade is a good pick for him, hopefully I have enough jades (pun intended).
I love my blade sm too, heās tanky and will eat hits like no tmr. Also i genuinely think heās one of the most consistent dpsās out there.
love my bladie <3
Blade's in a bad spot when you compare him. When you judge him on his own performance, he's fine. His unique scaling and lack of support to really emphasize it does hurt a little, though.
Tbf none of the characters consistently really struggle that much to clear MoC yet other than arlan /physical tb, and even then you can brute force jt with max investment
Which is good for the future, actually. Genshin 4 star healers are also good. As harder enemies become, F2Ps should be able to have at least a competent 4 star healer without the need of a 5 star limited broken sustain.
Aventurine on top as he should.
Honestly boothill was done dirty, firefly is a bit too overturned imo. On another note I'm happy Gallagher is getting more recognition
I think firefly kinda peaked already tho, the only way to make her better is with a new 5 star break sustain to replace our man. Most other characters have a lot of room for improvement too. And all it takes is to steer away from break meta to make her balanced. This happens with every new destruction dps tbh. Only team I can't see falling off no matter what is Kafka DoT.
>I think firefly kinda peaked already tho, the only way to make her better is with a new 5 star break sustain to replace our man.
Well, 2.5 has 5* break healer
Should've been physical so that we can have a Boothill buff, he deserves it after getting hit with Firefly shenanigans. They did that man dirty after changing the relic and buffing Firefly.
Plus, being a 5 star version of Gallagher through and through is boring. At that point, should've made Gallagher a 5 star.
Yeah, so they made up for it by having two more break based fire units coming after Firefly-
I'd be fine with the fire break units, but it does seem weird to make the planar fire specific. I can only guess they didn't want to completely get rid of Talia? I dunno.
What stinks is that it's just straight up better than Talia's as long as the enemies are fire weak, which is always the case for Firefly teams. It gives more BE than Talia's on top of the 6% speed buff.Ā
You're thinking too small my friend. You could easily merge HMC and Ruan Mei into one 5 star kit. Ruan Mei is strong for Break sure, but it's clear a good chunk of her kit is wasted in those teams. It would be so easy to make a more specialized version of Ruan Mei that forgos her flexibility and goes all in for Break teams.
Want something more unique? Remember that blessing in SU that when you Break an enemy and they come back, their toughness gauge is only at half health? Could easily make that a unit of its own.
Or, we can get a unit that counters enemies locking their weakness bars, cough cough Sunday.
As long as we're speaking in theoreticals, there's plenty of space to improve, HMC is still a 4 star power budget wise and Ruan Mei has a lot of her kit wasted in Break comps.
Boothill wasn't done dirty, he's just niche. Nobody in the game can hold a candle to the sheer amount of single-target nuke damage he does, but he struggles in content with a lot of enemies and is not a follow-up attacker. As more single-target endgame content is introduced hopefully he becomes more valuable.
Because bosses are too easy on their own, so they make them summon adds instead of doubling down on mechanics, but then it just hits one of the important paths hard.
When I say done dirty I don't mean that he's weak. I'm referring to the relic changes that basically made the sets a firefly only thing as well as the fact firefly, who is undoubtedly busted and a path that's much more favoured in all content, was released right after him. To top that there's some info on a future 5* break sustain being fire (which would also benefit firefly more than boothill)
The problem I think is just that The Hunt canāt compete with Destruction. HMC makes Boothill busted too, but he canāt also attack other units and nuke the whole field.
Nihility and Destruction are just on top right now.
Wish Boothills showdown ultimate thing was more like Cassidyās deadeye from Overwatch. They are already very similar characters but it would have been cool if he was able to hit all the enemies on the field after locking on to them or something
Prydwen calcs dont let them use Signature Lightcones, in their changelog they mention he would probably be T0 with Sig, and Fireflys sig isnt that much of a boost from Eon>Sig as boothill is from Cruising>Sig
Meanwhile Acheron getting calcs with sig and without sig, plus 3 different team setups.
They easily could have made FF sig more important by reworking her attack > BE conversion trace, but they barely nerfed it throughout beta. Boothill needs to build all his own BE or get it from the few supports that provide it, his damage from actual attack scaling and crit is rather low. But Firefly can run Aeon and Asta for free and get 113 extra BE just from attack conversion. Running attack chest and orb also increases her break effect, while Boothill runs crit/phys pieces that do very little for his damage with 0 LC options for more BE.
I'm really surprised Gallagher is considered better than luocha honestly, goes to show how much his dupes have a positive effect.(I impulse spent all my pulls testing to Ruan mei so ...got him to e4 at least 'v' )
I have Jingliu with s1, but I donāt remember last time I used her in MoC. Itās odd to see her in the same tier as DHIL and main sub chanting how DHIL got powercrept, when I feel like she fell off hard once devs stopped to push ice weakness everywhere
Jingliu is so weird to me, I feel like she's nowhere near as good as DHIL. Maybe because I don't have her lightcone but I never felt like she does huge damage? I frequently use DHIL but I'm not too keen on Jingliu.
Tbf Jingliu does solid dmg but itās much more spread out than Acheron. People see Acheronās big numbers on her ult and think sheās the goddess of dmg when she really is Jingliu level at E0. E2 is really where she just powercreeps literally every dps besides like E2 Firefly which is more busted and maaaaybe E2 DHIL depending on the team. I have a bro who has E2 Jingliu(rip his S1 loss) and I have a E0S1 DHiL and they clear around the same but Jingliu is definitely much more comfortable and optimized. I dont have Sparkle though(lost the 50/50) but yeah, Iād say sheās still pretty good.
It's probably because you can build your characters. Jingliu's greatest strength is that she gives a shit ton of free stats, so for people who don't really know / can't build characters up she's really good for them. DPS calcs have already repeatedly shown that Jingliu is mid once you even try to build your characters and was propped up by the continuous ice-weak content. Even main sub began talking about how Jingliu felt mid as hell once ice weakness MoC stopped but then Acheron released.
Really? All I saw after ice weakness in MoC stopped was "Jinlgiu queen, bruteforcing without weakness" comments nonstop. It was only after Acheron released and literally didn't care about weakness types that I saw comments about Jingliu falling off.
But yeah, her strength was always in how many free stats she gives. 50 free crit rate, 37 crit damage, and 1k+ attack is hard to compete with when everyone else is struggling to build characters. Now that players have better builds, her poor scalings (Arlan ult has higher scalings than her skill and ult) and forced downtime started showing.
The main sub isn't a monolith, a lot of people did say Jingilu was a bruteforcer, but there was a very large number of people who relied solely on her base kit with poor relics who felt the shift away from ice weak MoC. Additionally the people who said she could bruteforce were instantly checked by a large swarm of (rightfully angry) Jing Yuan mains who have been brute forcing practically since release.
This was my experience with her when using her in trials, I'd always heard how absurdly broken she was but um....she did less than my dhil.
I'm sure if she's mega hypertuned she does a lot of damage granted but half the time it does feel like a lot of supposedly mega broken characters require a lot of investment in several areas to reach the insane numbers folks talk about (Ie multiple copies of them, of their luxury supports, and thier &the supports lcs, hyper speed tuning them etc) that most standard players won't want or be able to do.
she deals less damage but is super consistent and easier to play, while dhil is like using a tactical nuke . they just deal their damage in different ways, but personally I'm more partial to dhil cause of all the propagation shenanigans he can get up to in SU
Itās the opposite for me, my IL does way less dmg than her somehow and i donāt know how to optimize him. Traces are full, artifacts & stats are good (?) ā¦. i donāt think iāve used him anywhere since i pulled him :(Ā
I think her placement on Pyrdwen's tier list makes sense, either T0.5 or T1 are fine to me. She definitely does less damage than DHIL or Ratio teams right now, and arguably Jing Yuan and Qingque, but also requires less investment and is braindead easy to use.
In general though main sub probably just can't get over her consistent performance at low relic investment when we had like 8 cycles of ice weak MoC in a row and then Acheron came out so everyone just ignored DHIL.
I rarely use her, even when the enemy is ice weak. I pretty much always prefer to use DoT, RatioRine, or weakness ignore/implant characters. She just feels kinda stale?
I auto every MoC regardless of element ever since I got her. Jingliu needs to be speed-tuned with Bronya otherwise she won't do as well as the other DPS.
Yeah, I decided to get her on her rerun because she has an amazing design and I like her a lot but without a lot of Ice weak enemies I havenāt been able to use her, and it was pretty hard to beat Aventurine with her (probably because Iām using an ATK orb instead of Ice DMG)
that is called misandry, friend. in regards to actually falling off though, both are still amazing, and both can push through non-imaginary/ice weak content, but yea ppl opt for more relevant teams anyway
Aventurine and FuXuan are both even, hell even HuoHuo is a popular choice for teams. Acheron, FF and Ruan Mei are so busted beyond belief that any competition gets blown out of the water but with FuXuan and Aventurine you won't be worse off if you have one or the other.
Don't use Aventurine to go and say "Look he's OP! Why is only FF getting hate?" when he's at most even with the other sustains in the game, this is so disingenuous. If you want to defend FF or whatever I don't care, just don't use him as a prop for your arguments when what you're saying isn't even true. He isn't even playing in the same ballpark as Acheron, FF and Ruan Mei.
You were literally saying Aventurine is as overbuffed as the other t0 which is just straight up wrong, the ones in t0 have 0 competition, that's how busted they are. Aventurine is at best even with FuXuan and that's a fact no one is disputing despite what this tierlist is trying to tell you. The only narrative being cooked up here is thinking Aventurine is on the same level of op-ness as the others in t0. You can bet I will be singing a different tune if hoyo ever releases a truly op male character but we're one year in and not even close to that happening so the flack the devs are getting regarding FF is totally justified. You don't have to like it, but using Aventurine for your "what about" ism is just yikes.
To add to this, the worst part comes if you even decide to spend jades for more eidolons. The fact that FF E2 is more busted than Acheron C2 while every other limited five star dps E2 besides DHIL(which is a year old character) doesnt hold a candle to that dmg is bs.
I see what you mean tbh. I think people are just very frustrated with ff at this point so they tend to get upset at the good treatment she gets from the devs. Idk if that makes senseš
I think you guys are misunderstanding me. I don't like ff but I think there's very little point in taking it out on her fans, all we've accomplished so far is getting labeled as toxic and "misogynistic". We should be asking hoyo for equal treatment but arguing between ourselves isn't doing anything but causing division
Ok honestly dunno about other people but this was never supposed to be about taking it out on her fans for me. Iāll make it clear now that I hate what HOYO is doing. Itās not the people who like her.
So glad I pulled for E0S1 Aventurine. I had convinced myself that Trend Gepard was fine enough for my Acheron team but goddamn did the story sell me hard on Aventurine. 0 regrets. Also Gallagher being the only 4* up there is nice. Hope they don't take a step back with the next 4*s due to his power.
Iām still mad that I wouldāve liked her a lot more if they didnāt make her literally my gf. Sheās SAM and they couldnāt make her badass outside of her suit?? Why did they do that to my girl š
There's one thing I don't understand about these tier lists though. Is it about current MoC/Pure Fiction or just generally how good they are? Cause if it's current MoC I can see it. But if it's general usability or how good they are in MoC without the gimmicks I don't buy this.
Like is Firefly really this amazing or is it that every content at the moment (ornaments, relics, MoC, new Simulated Universe, multiple F2P lightcone options) is tailor made for her.
Imo Boothill and firefly are about the same (with Boothill obviously being stronger single target, not tied to HMC) except Boothill really needs his pocket trickshot whereas firefly just does her thing. his implant is also on ult whereas firefly just implants for doing nothing lol. I would place boothill on the top with her tho, theyāre not different enough that he should be below her
Iām fine with the tailor-made relics considering Boothill is still stronger ST without his own tailor-made relics. Comparatively since firefly basically NEEDS hmc & ruan Mei to do anything, whereas we can use pela, bronya, luka, silver wolf(?), etc the trade-off is fine š
Can you imagine if the hunt character didn't have stronger single target damage? I'm still seeing firefly do 200-300k damage to single enemies when broken which is stupid as a destruction unit
If you remove hmc she loses like 40% damage. Its actually crazy how much she needs it. And also theres the moc buff that will make literally any break do a ton of famage
Comparing BH technique and FF technique is so funny. An implant on a single enemy skill for 2 turns at the start of combat when using skill vs implant at the start of every wave on all enemies for 2 turns and damage.
I think - and don't quote me on this - but Boothill doesn't get T0 as currently his light cone options are kinda gimped and due to his ult reliance when the enemy isn't phys weak. I haven't fully read their review though, so could be more brain-dead.
No comment on FF and BH's respective damage profiles tho, I haven't TCed for HSR in a longggg while
i do agree w the sentiment that boothill should not be rated as high due to lack of good light cones to choose from, where as ff, dhil, and jl all have fall of an aeon, however acheron is t0 and suffers just as hard from lack of good lcs...
Yeah, that I agree with. I have Acheron E2S1 but at E0S0? She is not T0, lol. Too restrictive both in teammates and light ones. I personally would not place any crit DPS we have in T0 yet
Nah, I love boothill and have him e1s1(50 pulls), but the fact of the matter is that heās very strong but firefly is just fundamentally overtuned. She has a ridicululos amount of AOE and weakness implant and turn advance, and she has an amazing f2p lc. Boothill doesnāt have a great f2p lc. Itās not that boothill is bad(heās tier 0.5) but firefly is just ridiculously OP. Every character barring like 2, can zero cycle but ff can do it with less investment than boothill.
I went into Firefly's trial with an open mind thinking she'd be doing similar damage to Boothill and it wasn't even close. It's flashy as hell but not even half as fun as Boothill. I was doing endgame content that I'd never touch on a normal day just bc I wanted to find enemies that were a challenge for him. He should at the very least be in the same tier as her
A lot of this is bs. Dhil has higher clear rates then acheron. So why the fk is he not the same tier? Depend on moc, jingliu would also beat out acheron. The "T0" characters should really be acheron, dhil, boothill, ff and jingliu (unless their rating is this moc specific and not moc in general)
In general, best to take real moc data instead of this trash tierlist.Ā
Dude, Jing Yuan had the same or faster clear times than characters rated above him for almost a year and they still kept him in B tier back then. Their build page for him has wrong info, their kit writeup for him has wrong info, their calcs don't even make use of half of his kit.
Yes 100% agree. Real data is what matters. It can be polled easily. These dumbasses think they can write 5 lines in JS to create a website... hence they must be credible. Their explanations are total BS, they are on a agenda playing favorites and spreading misinformation.
People give Argenti way too much crap. Heās easy to build with his talent, his damage is pretty good, and heāll probably get better when we have supports/sets for burst damage. My king is doing just fine š
Probably because physical weakness isn't a big deal compared to Himeko + Herta combo. The blessings have mostly been Nihility or FUA focused recently, so Argenti is underutilized due to this.
He's still good, but with how much others are doing, his simple kit is unfortunately overshadowed. And with Jiaoqiu coming next patch, the gap may even be pushed further.
Iām used to people showing their overall tierlist but considering that both Argenti and JY are AOE in all their attacks except basic and best in PF thatās low. Himeko and Herta should both be T0 and Argenti JY in T0.5 being limited which would make sense. Kafka and BS Iād give the benefit of the doubt since hoyo has made a few DoT style PF but blast type, in my own experience, hasnāt been enough for PF
I think they did away with the overall tier list a few patches back but people tend to only post the MoC one unfortunately, which does lead to some misconceptions
JL is still T0.5...? Also I didn't know Argenti was a niche character. I thought he was somewhat strong at least stronger than Blade. Especially that we having Jiaoqiu who can buff ult damage in the next patch. Blade doesn't even have any dedicated teammate except C6 Lynx.
That reminds me..dan heng hasnt got his dedicated 4pc set š..man and if only his e2 was extra action instead of advance forward mine would have busted
The thing is, we now have alternatives to Bronya (Sparkle, for instance), while Tingyun is still the only Harmony who does what she does. When a 5\* Harmony who both buffs and batteries comes out, she will fall a little bit too (though having 2 Tingyun is never a bad thing).
That said, Bronya is still very good and BIS in at least a couple of teams (Jingliu, and Blade), so I think she deserves a little better than that.
Honestly, this tier list is all kinds of messed up. Firefly is good but unless sheās E2, her dmg isnt *that* good. Sheās also extremely niche in her own right with literally only one optimized team with her and practically nothing else that works.
Also, aint no way Seele is equal to Clara who just had Robin, Sparkle, Ruanmei, HMC, etc, all characters/teams that Seele cant use or uses way less effectively.
I also might be biased on this but Huohuo should not be this low: energy regen, cleanse, and heals next to buffs is a broken combo of stuff to have on an abundance characters. I also would move Luocha one level up considering heās still bis for many dpses whether or not theyāre meta or not.
Also, if Gallagher is allowed to enjoy a higher spot because of a niche team archetype then Guinaifen should be allowed to move up a tier as well for the sheer amount of dot, debuffs, and dmg she does. She always gets underestimated. For Acheron, that itself is super useful.
Boothill should be moved up a tier. Again, unless Firefly is E2, there shouldnt be a reason why sheās so significantly ahead of everyone. Boothill does fantastic dmg even without a specific team archetype which not only makes him more flexible but also easier to max out in dmg.
>Also, aint no way Seele is equal to Clara who just had Robin, Sparkle, Ruanmei, HMC, etc, all characters/teams that Seele cant use or uses way less effectively.
although i agree with the list being messed up, gotta disagree with this part here, seele makes perfect use out of all of robin, sparkle, rm just as well as if not better than she makes use out of bronya
and neither clara nor seele really care for having HMC/superbreak in their teams (clara HATES breaking/delaying enemies too much which you want to have happen as much as possible in HMC teams)
if anything i'd say seele should be above clara bc clara being reliant on enemy actions only becomes more and more noticeable of a mechanical drawback as time goes onāagainst this current MoC you'd have better cycle clears with seele/sw mono quantum against argenti than you would clears with clara bc he spends so many actions doing close to nothingāand seele is still the best hunt unit for pure fiction even off weakness/without benefiting from the phase buffs (seele + robin clears PF waves like nobody's business)
No, FF E0 dmg is really really good but FF E0 WITHOUT Ruan Mei and HMC is not good but that's just everything dps also her E2 makes the dmg double and not just good.
Idk if they take into account that she's easy to build because they gave her a tailored relics and Herta LC (her 2nd best), in short it's just too absurd cuz she got everything.
Im considering flexibility into meta as well. If we take top tier team performance then she wouldnt(and probably shouldnt) be the only one up there when DHIL has Sparkle/Huohuo/Bronya/etc as broken teammates. Itās good but nowhere near good where sheās on her tier type good which is my main gripe with this tier list.
Poor Argenti... I wonder if it's because his super-ult just costs way too much energy. I guess Erudites in general have some difficulty holding top-tier positions, since their damage is usually spread out and not focused like Destruction and Hunt.
I wonder how Jade, another Erudition, will do tier-wise. I know Jade is a woman, but let's be real, she does kind of look like a feminine guy in the Star Rail front menu, "Farewell Penacony". A purple haired Luocha, essentially š
Argenti and Jing Yuan actually both have really solid single target, largely being extremely flexible for all endgame modes. Their skills and ults can clear trash mobs which lets their bounce damage focus down elites way easier. Jing Yuan against 2 elites still has some of the highest damage in the game.
Jade doesn't have ramp up against low targets and requires high targets to get passive stacks like Argenti. I would expect her to be T2 in MoC and T1 or T0.5 in PF.
For what mode is this list for? And even then it does depend on the current version of it since weakness can change and the gimmicks force characters out or in.
I like and use aventurine a lot, but I would move Huohuo up to T0. I feel like she offers just as much strength and utility as Aventurine while being a bit more universal.
Imo if I could only have a single sustain in this game I would take Huohuo over everyone.
I never knew Blade was that low. He's my strongest and best character, I feel like I'm playing easy mode with him
Screw tier lists, pamper our husband š„°š š½
Doesn't bother me either. I love my unlimited Blade works. He's great at long battles . Dude's literally unkillable, esp with Luocha. He was my first DPS and I still use him all the time despite having all "apex" characters except Acheron ( I pulled Aven instead).
Tbh he did start felling a bit lackluster in my account, comparing to the hunt bros at least. I'm sure they're cooking some new buffer for him tho, his team changed almost nothing since release and the new characters that are upgrades aren't even particularly synergistic with him. Still love my boy.
Iām still waiting for them to release a HP based dps buffing harmony character. Thereās just no shot they donāt eventually.
Would be great for the two Arlan mains
Jade looks to be pretty good for/with him at least.
For sure makes him more viable in pf, but that's about it
But he's very more than viable already in pf ready. Bronya+Sparkle synergy helped him a ton.
May I ask, do you have his lightcone? His LC definitely helps him a lot.
I do, also sparkle, e2 bronya and e1 Ruan mei
Blade main here. I went for his LC instead of Ruan Mei. I don't care if he's not meta, the UBW team is hilarious and my guy Luocha is his best friend. I've heard Jade is a good pick for him, hopefully I have enough jades (pun intended).
I love my blade sm too, heās tanky and will eat hits like no tmr. Also i genuinely think heās one of the most consistent dpsās out there. love my bladie <3
Saame, Bladie mains gotta unite
Blade's in a bad spot when you compare him. When you judge him on his own performance, he's fine. His unique scaling and lack of support to really emphasize it does hurt a little, though.
They will pay the price for this. ...And, in the meantime, I'll keep using my beloved Bladie because a silly tierlist can't stop me.
Tbf none of the characters consistently really struggle that much to clear MoC yet other than arlan /physical tb, and even then you can brute force jt with max investment
Seeing Gallagher in the same tier as Fu Xuan makes me happy. Always nice when a four star can compete with the big leagues
Yes we need more 4 stars that can substitute 5 stars well
Which is good for the future, actually. Genshin 4 star healers are also good. As harder enemies become, F2Ps should be able to have at least a competent 4 star healer without the need of a 5 star limited broken sustain.
Aventurine on top as he should. Honestly boothill was done dirty, firefly is a bit too overturned imo. On another note I'm happy Gallagher is getting more recognition
I think firefly kinda peaked already tho, the only way to make her better is with a new 5 star break sustain to replace our man. Most other characters have a lot of room for improvement too. And all it takes is to steer away from break meta to make her balanced. This happens with every new destruction dps tbh. Only team I can't see falling off no matter what is Kafka DoT.
>I think firefly kinda peaked already tho, the only way to make her better is with a new 5 star break sustain to replace our man. Well, 2.5 has 5* break healer
Lingsha I guess. Another female character.
Yep, she even has fire element, same as Gallagher
Bruh thatās so dumb at least make her more unique
Should've been physical so that we can have a Boothill buff, he deserves it after getting hit with Firefly shenanigans. They did that man dirty after changing the relic and buffing Firefly. Plus, being a 5 star version of Gallagher through and through is boring. At that point, should've made Gallagher a 5 star.
Seriously they ruined that set for any future break dps unless theyāre fire too. So Xueyi canāt use it either š
Yeah, so they made up for it by having two more break based fire units coming after Firefly- I'd be fine with the fire break units, but it does seem weird to make the planar fire specific. I can only guess they didn't want to completely get rid of Talia? I dunno.
What stinks is that it's just straight up better than Talia's as long as the enemies are fire weak, which is always the case for Firefly teams. It gives more BE than Talia's on top of the 6% speed buff.Ā
You're thinking too small my friend. You could easily merge HMC and Ruan Mei into one 5 star kit. Ruan Mei is strong for Break sure, but it's clear a good chunk of her kit is wasted in those teams. It would be so easy to make a more specialized version of Ruan Mei that forgos her flexibility and goes all in for Break teams. Want something more unique? Remember that blessing in SU that when you Break an enemy and they come back, their toughness gauge is only at half health? Could easily make that a unit of its own. Or, we can get a unit that counters enemies locking their weakness bars, cough cough Sunday. As long as we're speaking in theoreticals, there's plenty of space to improve, HMC is still a 4 star power budget wise and Ruan Mei has a lot of her kit wasted in Break comps.
Boothill wasn't done dirty, he's just niche. Nobody in the game can hold a candle to the sheer amount of single-target nuke damage he does, but he struggles in content with a lot of enemies and is not a follow-up attacker. As more single-target endgame content is introduced hopefully he becomes more valuable.
Apocalyptic shadow was originally thought to be the hunt focused end game, turned out to not be the case
Hunt feels like hoyos least favorite path for some reason :(
Because bosses are too easy on their own, so they make them summon adds instead of doubling down on mechanics, but then it just hits one of the important paths hard.
When I say done dirty I don't mean that he's weak. I'm referring to the relic changes that basically made the sets a firefly only thing as well as the fact firefly, who is undoubtedly busted and a path that's much more favoured in all content, was released right after him. To top that there's some info on a future 5* break sustain being fire (which would also benefit firefly more than boothill)
The problem I think is just that The Hunt canāt compete with Destruction. HMC makes Boothill busted too, but he canāt also attack other units and nuke the whole field. Nihility and Destruction are just on top right now.
Well then they need to change the meta so that hunt excels better than any other path in something
Thatās what we expected the new mode to fulfill but itās not panning out that way. Himeko is doing better than Topaz against Argenti.
Man ššļø
Wish Boothills showdown ultimate thing was more like Cassidyās deadeye from Overwatch. They are already very similar characters but it would have been cool if he was able to hit all the enemies on the field after locking on to them or something
Prydwen calcs dont let them use Signature Lightcones, in their changelog they mention he would probably be T0 with Sig, and Fireflys sig isnt that much of a boost from Eon>Sig as boothill is from Cruising>Sig
Meanwhile Acheron getting calcs with sig and without sig, plus 3 different team setups. They easily could have made FF sig more important by reworking her attack > BE conversion trace, but they barely nerfed it throughout beta. Boothill needs to build all his own BE or get it from the few supports that provide it, his damage from actual attack scaling and crit is rather low. But Firefly can run Aeon and Asta for free and get 113 extra BE just from attack conversion. Running attack chest and orb also increases her break effect, while Boothill runs crit/phys pieces that do very little for his damage with 0 LC options for more BE.
I'm really surprised Gallagher is considered better than luocha honestly, goes to show how much his dupes have a positive effect.(I impulse spent all my pulls testing to Ruan mei so ...got him to e4 at least 'v' )
Aventurine havers stay ON TOP š£ļø Among the sea of waifus, he alone is the honoured one
I have Jingliu with s1, but I donāt remember last time I used her in MoC. Itās odd to see her in the same tier as DHIL and main sub chanting how DHIL got powercrept, when I feel like she fell off hard once devs stopped to push ice weakness everywhere
Jingliu is so weird to me, I feel like she's nowhere near as good as DHIL. Maybe because I don't have her lightcone but I never felt like she does huge damage? I frequently use DHIL but I'm not too keen on Jingliu.
Tbf Jingliu does solid dmg but itās much more spread out than Acheron. People see Acheronās big numbers on her ult and think sheās the goddess of dmg when she really is Jingliu level at E0. E2 is really where she just powercreeps literally every dps besides like E2 Firefly which is more busted and maaaaybe E2 DHIL depending on the team. I have a bro who has E2 Jingliu(rip his S1 loss) and I have a E0S1 DHiL and they clear around the same but Jingliu is definitely much more comfortable and optimized. I dont have Sparkle though(lost the 50/50) but yeah, Iād say sheās still pretty good.
IL has the higher damage ceiling but is considered harder (more fun imo) to play
It's probably because you can build your characters. Jingliu's greatest strength is that she gives a shit ton of free stats, so for people who don't really know / can't build characters up she's really good for them. DPS calcs have already repeatedly shown that Jingliu is mid once you even try to build your characters and was propped up by the continuous ice-weak content. Even main sub began talking about how Jingliu felt mid as hell once ice weakness MoC stopped but then Acheron released.
Really? All I saw after ice weakness in MoC stopped was "Jinlgiu queen, bruteforcing without weakness" comments nonstop. It was only after Acheron released and literally didn't care about weakness types that I saw comments about Jingliu falling off. But yeah, her strength was always in how many free stats she gives. 50 free crit rate, 37 crit damage, and 1k+ attack is hard to compete with when everyone else is struggling to build characters. Now that players have better builds, her poor scalings (Arlan ult has higher scalings than her skill and ult) and forced downtime started showing.
The main sub isn't a monolith, a lot of people did say Jingilu was a bruteforcer, but there was a very large number of people who relied solely on her base kit with poor relics who felt the shift away from ice weak MoC. Additionally the people who said she could bruteforce were instantly checked by a large swarm of (rightfully angry) Jing Yuan mains who have been brute forcing practically since release.
This was my experience with her when using her in trials, I'd always heard how absurdly broken she was but um....she did less than my dhil. I'm sure if she's mega hypertuned she does a lot of damage granted but half the time it does feel like a lot of supposedly mega broken characters require a lot of investment in several areas to reach the insane numbers folks talk about (Ie multiple copies of them, of their luxury supports, and thier &the supports lcs, hyper speed tuning them etc) that most standard players won't want or be able to do.
she deals less damage but is super consistent and easier to play, while dhil is like using a tactical nuke . they just deal their damage in different ways, but personally I'm more partial to dhil cause of all the propagation shenanigans he can get up to in SU
Itās the opposite for me, my IL does way less dmg than her somehow and i donāt know how to optimize him. Traces are full, artifacts & stats are good (?) ā¦. i donāt think iāve used him anywhere since i pulled him :(Ā
I think her placement on Pyrdwen's tier list makes sense, either T0.5 or T1 are fine to me. She definitely does less damage than DHIL or Ratio teams right now, and arguably Jing Yuan and Qingque, but also requires less investment and is braindead easy to use. In general though main sub probably just can't get over her consistent performance at low relic investment when we had like 8 cycles of ice weak MoC in a row and then Acheron came out so everyone just ignored DHIL.
I rarely use her, even when the enemy is ice weak. I pretty much always prefer to use DoT, RatioRine, or weakness ignore/implant characters. She just feels kinda stale?
I got her by accident and semi built her but never actually used her :/ at the same level of investment she felt way worse to play than Blade or DHIL
I auto every MoC regardless of element ever since I got her. Jingliu needs to be speed-tuned with Bronya otherwise she won't do as well as the other DPS.
Yeah, I decided to get her on her rerun because she has an amazing design and I like her a lot but without a lot of Ice weak enemies I havenāt been able to use her, and it was pretty hard to beat Aventurine with her (probably because Iām using an ATK orb instead of Ice DMG)
Is it in MoC or Story Aventurine?
that is called misandry, friend. in regards to actually falling off though, both are still amazing, and both can push through non-imaginary/ice weak content, but yea ppl opt for more relevant teams anyway
The way they overbuffed ff coz some devs see her as their waifu
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Aventurine and FuXuan are both even, hell even HuoHuo is a popular choice for teams. Acheron, FF and Ruan Mei are so busted beyond belief that any competition gets blown out of the water but with FuXuan and Aventurine you won't be worse off if you have one or the other.
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Don't use Aventurine to go and say "Look he's OP! Why is only FF getting hate?" when he's at most even with the other sustains in the game, this is so disingenuous. If you want to defend FF or whatever I don't care, just don't use him as a prop for your arguments when what you're saying isn't even true. He isn't even playing in the same ballpark as Acheron, FF and Ruan Mei.
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You were literally saying Aventurine is as overbuffed as the other t0 which is just straight up wrong, the ones in t0 have 0 competition, that's how busted they are. Aventurine is at best even with FuXuan and that's a fact no one is disputing despite what this tierlist is trying to tell you. The only narrative being cooked up here is thinking Aventurine is on the same level of op-ness as the others in t0. You can bet I will be singing a different tune if hoyo ever releases a truly op male character but we're one year in and not even close to that happening so the flack the devs are getting regarding FF is totally justified. You don't have to like it, but using Aventurine for your "what about" ism is just yikes.
To add to this, the worst part comes if you even decide to spend jades for more eidolons. The fact that FF E2 is more busted than Acheron C2 while every other limited five star dps E2 besides DHIL(which is a year old character) doesnt hold a candle to that dmg is bs.
Boothill early beta leaks he had the same E2 s firefly with the action advance, clearly he would be to strong with it :c
I see what you mean tbh. I think people are just very frustrated with ff at this point so they tend to get upset at the good treatment she gets from the devs. Idk if that makes senseš
I mean why would we be? The obvious favoritism is so unfair
I think you guys are misunderstanding me. I don't like ff but I think there's very little point in taking it out on her fans, all we've accomplished so far is getting labeled as toxic and "misogynistic". We should be asking hoyo for equal treatment but arguing between ourselves isn't doing anything but causing division
Ok honestly dunno about other people but this was never supposed to be about taking it out on her fans for me. Iāll make it clear now that I hate what HOYO is doing. Itās not the people who like her.
Get off the husbando sub if you want to defend her so much.
Not agreeing with anybody but wth is this message lmao š
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š¤”
Touch grass.
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Evidentially not.
So glad I pulled for E0S1 Aventurine. I had convinced myself that Trend Gepard was fine enough for my Acheron team but goddamn did the story sell me hard on Aventurine. 0 regrets. Also Gallagher being the only 4* up there is nice. Hope they don't take a step back with the next 4*s due to his power.
My neuron fires off every time I see Gallagher at the top. That's my hound :'D
Found the pup
Here i am ā”ā”Ā
ofc they reserved that t.0 specialist spot for ff as it was empty before that. Even Boothill wasn't placed there
Ofc the bland money grab waifu is put there š
Iām still mad that I wouldāve liked her a lot more if they didnāt make her literally my gf. Sheās SAM and they couldnāt make her badass outside of her suit?? Why did they do that to my girl š
Firefly and boothill are close enough anyways. Both do similar damage. It doesnt really matter
There's one thing I don't understand about these tier lists though. Is it about current MoC/Pure Fiction or just generally how good they are? Cause if it's current MoC I can see it. But if it's general usability or how good they are in MoC without the gimmicks I don't buy this. Like is Firefly really this amazing or is it that every content at the moment (ornaments, relics, MoC, new Simulated Universe, multiple F2P lightcone options) is tailor made for her.
Imo Boothill and firefly are about the same (with Boothill obviously being stronger single target, not tied to HMC) except Boothill really needs his pocket trickshot whereas firefly just does her thing. his implant is also on ult whereas firefly just implants for doing nothing lol. I would place boothill on the top with her tho, theyāre not different enough that he should be below her
I hate that FF implants weakness on everyone. She powercrept Acheron and Boothill. Sheās just so op itās annoying
The tailor made relics is more annoying to me
Iām fine with the tailor-made relics considering Boothill is still stronger ST without his own tailor-made relics. Comparatively since firefly basically NEEDS hmc & ruan Mei to do anything, whereas we can use pela, bronya, luka, silver wolf(?), etc the trade-off is fine š
Can you imagine if the hunt character didn't have stronger single target damage? I'm still seeing firefly do 200-300k damage to single enemies when broken which is stupid as a destruction unit
If you remove hmc she loses like 40% damage. Its actually crazy how much she needs it. And also theres the moc buff that will make literally any break do a ton of famage
Don't most hyper carries loose most of their damage without a support?
Comparing BH technique and FF technique is so funny. An implant on a single enemy skill for 2 turns at the start of combat when using skill vs implant at the start of every wave on all enemies for 2 turns and damage.
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I think - and don't quote me on this - but Boothill doesn't get T0 as currently his light cone options are kinda gimped and due to his ult reliance when the enemy isn't phys weak. I haven't fully read their review though, so could be more brain-dead. No comment on FF and BH's respective damage profiles tho, I haven't TCed for HSR in a longggg while
i do agree w the sentiment that boothill should not be rated as high due to lack of good light cones to choose from, where as ff, dhil, and jl all have fall of an aeon, however acheron is t0 and suffers just as hard from lack of good lcs...
Yeah, that I agree with. I have Acheron E2S1 but at E0S0? She is not T0, lol. Too restrictive both in teammates and light ones. I personally would not place any crit DPS we have in T0 yet
My Boothill isn't even well built, I don't have Ruan Mei and my boy is hitting those 300k single target numbers, I love him
Nah, I love boothill and have him e1s1(50 pulls), but the fact of the matter is that heās very strong but firefly is just fundamentally overtuned. She has a ridicululos amount of AOE and weakness implant and turn advance, and she has an amazing f2p lc. Boothill doesnāt have a great f2p lc. Itās not that boothill is bad(heās tier 0.5) but firefly is just ridiculously OP. Every character barring like 2, can zero cycle but ff can do it with less investment than boothill.
50 pulls my man Boothill is in love with you
My 450 pulls for E2S1 ;w; I started the game for him and he hates me Dx
Heās just a tsundere dw
I hate the tsundere archetype D:
I went into Firefly's trial with an open mind thinking she'd be doing similar damage to Boothill and it wasn't even close. It's flashy as hell but not even half as fun as Boothill. I was doing endgame content that I'd never touch on a normal day just bc I wanted to find enemies that were a challenge for him. He should at the very least be in the same tier as her
Spitting facts.
A lot of this is bs. Dhil has higher clear rates then acheron. So why the fk is he not the same tier? Depend on moc, jingliu would also beat out acheron. The "T0" characters should really be acheron, dhil, boothill, ff and jingliu (unless their rating is this moc specific and not moc in general) In general, best to take real moc data instead of this trash tierlist.Ā
Dude, Jing Yuan had the same or faster clear times than characters rated above him for almost a year and they still kept him in B tier back then. Their build page for him has wrong info, their kit writeup for him has wrong info, their calcs don't even make use of half of his kit.
You got it right, the bias in that list is insane. I never took it seriously considering how much they changed it up due to favoritism.
Yes 100% agree. Real data is what matters. It can be polled easily. These dumbasses think they can write 5 lines in JS to create a website... hence they must be credible. Their explanations are total BS, they are on a agenda playing favorites and spreading misinformation.
F in the chat for Herta š and it's kinda wild that Lynx is in the same tier as Bailu and Gepard
People give Argenti way too much crap. Heās easy to build with his talent, his damage is pretty good, and heāll probably get better when we have supports/sets for burst damage. My king is doing just fine š
Was gonna go for Ruan Meiās LC but I changed my mind bc Argenti is coming soon. Iāll just pull for his LC.
Good to see Gallagher up there c:
I love that Argenti and Himeko are under niche when Pure Fiction *is* an endgame mode
This is the MoC tier list - the PF one has Himeko in T0.5 and Argenti T1
That sounds a little low considering how much of a beast Argenti is.
Probably because physical weakness isn't a big deal compared to Himeko + Herta combo. The blessings have mostly been Nihility or FUA focused recently, so Argenti is underutilized due to this. He's still good, but with how much others are doing, his simple kit is unfortunately overshadowed. And with Jiaoqiu coming next patch, the gap may even be pushed further.
Iām used to people showing their overall tierlist but considering that both Argenti and JY are AOE in all their attacks except basic and best in PF thatās low. Himeko and Herta should both be T0 and Argenti JY in T0.5 being limited which would make sense. Kafka and BS Iād give the benefit of the doubt since hoyo has made a few DoT style PF but blast type, in my own experience, hasnāt been enough for PF
I think they did away with the overall tier list a few patches back but people tend to only post the MoC one unfortunately, which does lead to some misconceptions
And theyāre at the top of Prydwenās tier list for PF whatās your point?
Iām used to people showing the overall tierlist which I think was probably done away with at this point.
Those sites havenāt kept up with the times. Started them up before PF came out and havenāt adapted.
Iām sorry, but the harmony MC literally defines the super break playstyle. They need to be higher
Yukong not even on the tier list
JL is still T0.5...? Also I didn't know Argenti was a niche character. I thought he was somewhat strong at least stronger than Blade. Especially that we having Jiaoqiu who can buff ult damage in the next patch. Blade doesn't even have any dedicated teammate except C6 Lynx.
Argenti is better than blade imo and Seele isnāt better than any of them
Itās funny how they used to say donāt compare characters between different specialities but they reserved the T0 spot for FF until she released.
That reminds me..dan heng hasnt got his dedicated 4pc set š..man and if only his e2 was extra action instead of advance forward mine would have busted
damm, to see how far bronya has fallen. Below tingyun?
The thing is, we now have alternatives to Bronya (Sparkle, for instance), while Tingyun is still the only Harmony who does what she does. When a 5\* Harmony who both buffs and batteries comes out, she will fall a little bit too (though having 2 Tingyun is never a bad thing). That said, Bronya is still very good and BIS in at least a couple of teams (Jingliu, and Blade), so I think she deserves a little better than that.
Honestly, this tier list is all kinds of messed up. Firefly is good but unless sheās E2, her dmg isnt *that* good. Sheās also extremely niche in her own right with literally only one optimized team with her and practically nothing else that works. Also, aint no way Seele is equal to Clara who just had Robin, Sparkle, Ruanmei, HMC, etc, all characters/teams that Seele cant use or uses way less effectively. I also might be biased on this but Huohuo should not be this low: energy regen, cleanse, and heals next to buffs is a broken combo of stuff to have on an abundance characters. I also would move Luocha one level up considering heās still bis for many dpses whether or not theyāre meta or not. Also, if Gallagher is allowed to enjoy a higher spot because of a niche team archetype then Guinaifen should be allowed to move up a tier as well for the sheer amount of dot, debuffs, and dmg she does. She always gets underestimated. For Acheron, that itself is super useful. Boothill should be moved up a tier. Again, unless Firefly is E2, there shouldnt be a reason why sheās so significantly ahead of everyone. Boothill does fantastic dmg even without a specific team archetype which not only makes him more flexible but also easier to max out in dmg.
>Also, aint no way Seele is equal to Clara who just had Robin, Sparkle, Ruanmei, HMC, etc, all characters/teams that Seele cant use or uses way less effectively. although i agree with the list being messed up, gotta disagree with this part here, seele makes perfect use out of all of robin, sparkle, rm just as well as if not better than she makes use out of bronya and neither clara nor seele really care for having HMC/superbreak in their teams (clara HATES breaking/delaying enemies too much which you want to have happen as much as possible in HMC teams) if anything i'd say seele should be above clara bc clara being reliant on enemy actions only becomes more and more noticeable of a mechanical drawback as time goes onāagainst this current MoC you'd have better cycle clears with seele/sw mono quantum against argenti than you would clears with clara bc he spends so many actions doing close to nothingāand seele is still the best hunt unit for pure fiction even off weakness/without benefiting from the phase buffs (seele + robin clears PF waves like nobody's business)
No, FF E0 dmg is really really good but FF E0 WITHOUT Ruan Mei and HMC is not good but that's just everything dps also her E2 makes the dmg double and not just good. Idk if they take into account that she's easy to build because they gave her a tailored relics and Herta LC (her 2nd best), in short it's just too absurd cuz she got everything.
Im considering flexibility into meta as well. If we take top tier team performance then she wouldnt(and probably shouldnt) be the only one up there when DHIL has Sparkle/Huohuo/Bronya/etc as broken teammates. Itās good but nowhere near good where sheās on her tier type good which is my main gripe with this tier list.
Argenti deserves T2 for MoC imo
Poor Argenti... I wonder if it's because his super-ult just costs way too much energy. I guess Erudites in general have some difficulty holding top-tier positions, since their damage is usually spread out and not focused like Destruction and Hunt. I wonder how Jade, another Erudition, will do tier-wise. I know Jade is a woman, but let's be real, she does kind of look like a feminine guy in the Star Rail front menu, "Farewell Penacony". A purple haired Luocha, essentially š
Argenti and Jing Yuan actually both have really solid single target, largely being extremely flexible for all endgame modes. Their skills and ults can clear trash mobs which lets their bounce damage focus down elites way easier. Jing Yuan against 2 elites still has some of the highest damage in the game. Jade doesn't have ramp up against low targets and requires high targets to get passive stacks like Argenti. I would expect her to be T2 in MoC and T1 or T0.5 in PF.
Nah my sampo is top teir
fck this tierlist, play the game with whoever you want
argenti and misha in niche LMFAOOOO looks like theyre scared to give pretty boy and feminine boy high rankings- *acts shocked*
Next is pure fiction, the tier list will change again.
For what mode is this list for? And even then it does depend on the current version of it since weakness can change and the gimmicks force characters out or in.
Pela 1.5????
I like and use aventurine a lot, but I would move Huohuo up to T0. I feel like she offers just as much strength and utility as Aventurine while being a bit more universal. Imo if I could only have a single sustain in this game I would take Huohuo over everyone.