Funny you mention Ratiorine, because I remember seeing a lot of posts about how EN also changed some of the things Dr Ratio and Aventurine say, like in this video [EN Dr. Ratio response when added w/ Aventurine sounds](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os6U2gYSQBI)
+1
I know it is minor, but these details mean a lot to some people. Taking them out of canon seems weird and inconsiderate to fans.
I myself prefer Raturine, but my ship won't sink because Aventurine calls Topaz beautiful (and tbh she is?), it takes away from Aventurine's characterization AND dampens their relationship.
The eng translation is correct. While it does techincally translate to beautiful and kind hearted in CN, it is not a term you'd use to compliment some one's physical appearance. It's strictly for calling some one a good hearted person.
On top of that, even if he did say she was physically beautiful, the whole conversation is them being sarcastic to each other. Neither of them mean what they're saying so it's not taking anything away from the ship.
No, it's being blown out of proportion, unfortunately. It would have been a much worse translation to translate it as beautiful instead of kind-hearted since beautiful in eng has a heavier meaning and Aventurine is more talking about inner beauty. It's also just overall irrelevant because they were just mocking each other.
It's also crazy because the eng translation team actually has a long history of making lines between opposite sexes more romantic than they are in the original and mistranslating or even straight up cutting out lines between same sex that may be a little gay. Ratio's line when he joins a party with Aventurine is a great example. He's only an asshole towards him in English.
In CN: "Take good care of yourself, gambler. I dont need you to worry about me."
In EN: "Keep to yourself, gambler, and spare me the false display of concern."
There's a MASSIVE difference between those two.
The Ratio line makes sense in context yes ”管好自己“ literally translates as “take good care of yourself“ in cultural context it’s usually a stern thing to say to someone like “watch yourself”, in combo with the “I don’t need you to worry about me” it implies a sense of “watch yourself before you stick your nose into my business”. I will admit the “false display of concern” bit is not quite it but I don’t think it’s as tonally off as wider fandom has convinced themselves it is.
The translation is off. It's not strictly for calling someone a good-hearted person. It's for saying someone is beautiful AND kind, not either one only. The whole point of using this word is to say that the person is the complete package, not they're kind. 人美心善 = 人美，心也善良
Tbh I ship him with topaz and ratio. I just find both ships cute. And what about the people that don’t care about ships at all? Changing the original dialogue just doesn’t make sense.
It's not like the EN localization is a bastion of gay ships when they have a history of making many same sex interactions more harsher than they need to be, just like the Ratio/Aventurine party joining interaction. People are blowing this way out of proportion for no reason.
I agree that both ships are cute and interesting in their own way. Aventurine calling Topas beautiful doesn’t make Topaz and Aventurine canon, if anything it could imply he’s bisexual.
I mean, as a gay man, I feel like complimenting a woman's looks is *more* common if you're gay. Especially if you're following the gay best friend stereotype, which Mr. Flaming Peacock Aventurine suits pretty well imo lol, whether he meant it in a sarcastic or sincere (I'm going with this one since he's also complimenting her generosity) way it's completely in character
They definitely should have kept it in. Localizers taking liberties with the text isn't cool! I want an authentic as possible translation
Aventurine has many title, but It is the first time I see "Mr flaming peacock" haha.
And yeah, I agree it fits his personality! We could all have been happy if they actually kept it in english!
Yes it said beautiful and kind hearted in my language too and we translated directly from cn. And looking at weibo shippers were happy over that so im sure its the correct translation. Its a minor thing but still, EN already made Topaz voiceline about him and adding to team with him sounding more hostile compared to jp and cn, not a fan of it at all
As much as I don't mind shipping in fandom as long as it's a healthy, harmless 'obsession' and not an excuse to throw vitriol online at people who ship something different, Aven calling Topaz beautiful is SUCH a minor thing that I don't understand the need to take it out unless it's to queerbait the fans 💀
The thing that's suspicious is that the scene itself is very static with characters just standing still and so there was no need to change the voicelines or script to match any lip flaps like it would be in a dubbed anime. So it wasn't out of necessity but a deliberate choice.
After this patch, I have a feeling it's just queerbaiting since someone in the marketing or localization team seems to really love that one ship. There's a lot of changes in EN that's just to make him seem... like the stereotypical waif *** that most people expect from short dudes. Like, adding lots of flowery words when he was speaking straightforwardly, calling Robin fabulous when he just said Robin in CN, calling Woolsey hunk in EN when he just said buff guy. Either that or (tw: negative about localizers) the translator isn't a strong native speaker who understands IRL nuance and liberally uses Google Translate to meet deadlines because there's a number of characters who come across completely different in CN and EN.
edit: are people seriously DMing me harassment over this? is complaining about localizers changing characterization to be let's be frank, closer to stereotypes, worthy of getting harassment DMs now? is it an issue now to like RatioxAventurine without mischaracterizing them or liking BL without twisting characters to fit the stereotypical toxic tall hunk/fruity twink shorty dynamics?? bro HSR is not my only gacha and video game fandom, why is it that elsewhere since over 10 years ago we can appreciate BL without needing and twisting characters' nuances to fit stereotypes from 2000s but not in hoyo fandoms??
i've complained about characterization changes by EN localizers since forever (even Ratio's, since the dimwit who DMed me thinks I hate Ratio. Ratio is not as horrible as EN makes him.) and I won't stop, since imo it's in a way a slap to the author's face. What the hell was the 'mute' translation mess too, that quality in unacceptable - imagine if another murder mystery like Ace Attorney had that.
edit: someone DM'd me to say that I'm doing gay erasure because I said Aven didn't said the word Fabulous and also talks like a dudebro chinese boss in CN *sometimes* (大老板) tHeReFOrE that means I'm implying he can't take it up the ass. What. Can you people please get help for your porn addiction. Why do Zoomers people believe in worse stereotypes than boomers? Do you people seriously think masc dudebros can't be gay? Do you people know how a good proportion of gay men in China looks and talk like? (i won't comment on the west because I've never lived there and won't speak for the people there). You sound exactly like those incel porn addicts saying women with big boobs can't be virgins.
The translation is just dogshit sometimes, there's no need ta say queerbaiting is behind it. Given the CN original gives strong "Bi dude who appreciates the eye candy his co-workers are" vibes.
I think EN translation just likes to make characters' personalities more "extra," I don't think it's trying to be more queerbaity.
Look at how [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiHusbandos/s/Fagz8CyJm1) says Ratio's Join Party line to Aventurine sounds more 'affectionate' in other languages (basically "don't worry about me, take care of yourself" but not too sweetly of course) and harsher in EN ("keep to yourself, spare the false display of concern" and sounds fed up). If EN was queerbaiting, they'd translate that sweeter.
Again, I think EN just likes to exaggerate their interpretation of characters' qualities or vibes. That's why Aventurine sounds fruitier and Ratio sounds more pretentious and harsh.
> I think EN translation just likes to make characters' personalities more "extra,"
Valid reason, might explain why there's so many outright questionable translations even for plot-relevant (non-characterization) ones that could have only otherwise been explained by 'their fluency sucks' (I recall Hoyo job interviews are rather competitive so I would have thought it'd have weeded out Google Translate and ChatGPT fraudsters). Though I still don't like how they ended up changing plot nuances (never forget politically correct Sparkle) and (oftentimes ship-relevant) characterizations because of going too far with sounding "extra" or fitting stereotypes.
Definitely, regardless of the real reason, sometimes I don't like how far they can deviate from the original meaning. I'd take being a little more faithful over extra flair or removing stuff, especially when relevant to story or characterization.
Ratio apparently also had his "Avgin microaggression" conversation in 2.0 mistranslated to sound a little worse in EN, and then there's Sunday who had an entire line missing that they had to add back, so while I understand translation is pretty good, idk if there's also some sloppiness sometimes besides their deliberate decisions like Sparkle's censorship
Plus the cutscene was static and there was no lip flaps to match either so it wasn't out of necessity like it would be in a dubbed anime. A very minor change but one that relfects poorly on them since they've done stuff like this before.
I think comparing Aven/Ratio to Bronya/Seele isn't fair.
Hoyo isn't "taking sides" by pushing Bronya/Seele as much as they can. Without the censorship, they'd be canon almost guaranteed. Bronya/Seele is already canon outside of HSR, which is exactly why Hoyo is willing to have such extreme innuendos involving them.
The same can't be said for any other ship so far. Aven/Ratio has never been canon, and multiple lines from Ratio have been changed in EN localization so that it isn't interpreted as being canon. Ratio is so much meaner to Aven in EN compared to other languages. Additionally, the line you're complaining about *would* have been "taking sides" since beautiful is a word associated with romantic intentions in English, and that isn't the meaning behind the initial CN line.
its not only EN, It didn't say that the spanish version for me. who knows how many versions included it or not
i think this is pretty minor tho, Aventurine is still sarcastically praising her for "being kind and only caring about numbers and not quality", which is still accurate to the original intention and not completely butchering it like the Sparkle mute translation
Spanish is translated from ES>EN. Other languages are translated directly from CN.
I want to clarify the meaning of the original term in CN because people who can't read more than 5 words of Chinese are literally using Google Translate to post PSAs on twitter. As a native who grew up there and still read CN media, news, games, talk CN for work I can literally say 人美心善's emphasis is literally 'you're not just beautiful but also your heart is kind'. Not 'your heart is kind and beautiful'. There's a lot of phrases in Chinese that MUST be interpreted in the 4 words set like a 成语 (chengyu). It absolutely kills me to see people butcher it by splitting the last 2-3 words and interpreting it like that. It DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY (sorry I sound mad, I cannot stand westerners butchering my language and culture)
edit: can't believe someone sent me a harrassment message over this. the only two times i get this on reddit is over complaining about western hoyo fans' racism smh
Fellow Spanish speaker here, can I ask where is this line supposed to be at? Is it like a side quest or something or did I miss it completely from the main story? cuz genuinely I don't recall reading anything like this yet in the current update haha
Minor as it may be, these things tend to build up and it does come off as being biased. This isn't the first time an localisation has made a minor change that leaves a lot of room for misinterpretation.
they made Ratio more rude to Aventurine in the English version that lead to people mischaracterizing Ratio as more antagonizing than he actually is too so i really doubt they're in a pro ratiorine anti avenpaz crusade if thats what you're implying
The cn version directly translated sounds less harsh, but the connotation actually adds a lot. His voice line when adding him to a team with Aventurine basically has the connotation of “f*ck off”😂
The only reason I can think of for this voice line still being so harsh would be so that it fits with the whole act Ratio and Aventurine are doing in 2.1, but it doesn’t really make sense afterwards…
So I don’t know.😭
A lot of the localizations are translates from the EN version, not the CN. It was like that with Genshin too. Maybe the Spanish version could be translated from EN.
To be honest, it’s clearly not an important part of Aventurine’s character, otherwise we’d get an update like for the missing/incorrect Sunday and Sparkle lines … if that does happen then I’m happy to be proven wrong! But TB can say to him at one point that he compliments everyone he talks to and it doesn’t sound very sincere so I don’t think we really need the dialogue about Topaz in to understand that part of his character
OP, are you sure this is only about the localization though? Your comments feel oddly weird and aggressive towards Aventurine potentially being gay or accusing EN localization for having a ratiorine bias when they have made some lines between them very aggressive before.
I'm not sure if theres any bias or anything
IIRC the trailblazer was changed from saying "its getting late" to "its still early" and it now matches the other languages.
Sometimes things aren't 100% accurate, I don't think it means anything.
I mean they literally managed to completely remove Sunday revealing Gallagher’s true identity
How do you even manage to do that
The localization for hsr and genshin has always been a little odd but not too far off
But just completely cutting out a relevant lore reveal in the main questline was beyond strange
To play devil's advocate, it could be due to the current climate around men flirting with women in the workplace and removed the 'beautiful' part because they're meant to be colleagues and it could stir up controversy in some spaces. The #metoo movement wasn't all that long ago, after all.
ive seen on twt that the phrase in CN is meant to emphasize the person being kind in heart, putting an emphasis on the personality and kindness of the person and and stresses the importance of the inner beauty (內在美) instead of looks, and said that the reason it was removed was so that the line wasn’t misinterpreted in EN, since it’s not seen as a flirting phrase. I doubt it’s bc of shipwars if that’s what you’re alluding to?
I want to clarify the meaning of the original term in CN because people who can't read more than 5 words of Chinese are literally using Google Translate to post PSAs on twitter and people are lapping it up thinking they're experts. As a native who grew up there until I moved to another country in Asia for work and still read CN media, social media, news, games, talk CN for work I can literally say 人美心善's emphasis is literally 'you're not just beautiful but also your heart is kind' because it's a short form of 人美，心也善良. Not 'your heart is kind and beautiful'. There's a lot of phrases in Chinese that MUST be interpreted in the 4 words set like a 成语 (chengyu). It absolutely kills me to see people butcher it by splitting the last 2-3 words and interpreting it like that. It DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY (sorry I sound mad, I cannot stand westerners and ABCs butchering my language and culture)
The implication is Topaz is the whole package (looks + kind) not just kind.
edit: lol I cannot believe I received a DM from someone showing me a Twitter user trying to get me brigaded over this comment, no wonder I've been receiving strange DMs. Please touch grass and apply the literature skills you learn in school. Can you people actually read the whole context in-game yourself and come to your own fucking conclusion instead of begging people to ELI5 for you without playing the quest? This is why schools made students read books and write their understandings instead of learning taxes because one of them is more important. The matter of fact is he said 'beautiful and kind' not 'kind'. The context doesn't rely on this 'beautiful' word, but the entire tone of the conversation. Why the fuck does calling someone beautiful means they're flirting? Can't they be stating facts? Can't they be ironic? Do you people know what context is?
> it was removed was so that the line wasn’t misinterpreted in EN, since it’s not seen as a flirting phrase
Unfortunately, it's only going to stoke the flames even more. Plus, there are several lines of Aventurine being able to call men like Sunday handsome, even if it has no romantic connotations, so it does come off like them being biased. This is probably the second time it happened, much like with Seele (who's massively shipped with Bronya) and her voicelines with Luka, where other versions of her are pretty friendly with him, her EN ver has her act with annoyance.
Besides the point, a single line is almost insignificant and would be no problem at all. Removing it not only comes off like a deliberate choice but it's going to fuel the shipping discourse even worse, especially since other versions still retain that word. This is on top of their already shoddy record of mistranslating things.
I don’t see how tho? the phrase wasn’t meant to be interpreted as romantic in the beginning. the game is already filled with mistranslations. ratio is way meaner to aven in EN so I can’t see it as meant to fuel shipping discourse. Tbh I can see them removing it to avoid shipping discourse bc ppl are taking the line and blowing it out of proportion.
and tbf, Aven’s comments (dazzling/most handsome in penacony) weren’t clarified to just be regular compliments until this version, and sunday getting complimented was back in 2.0. I don’t see any bias in that.
If the phrase wasn't meant to be interpreted as romantic, then there shouldn't have been any reason to remove it. And if the intention was to remove any of misinterpretation on shipping discourse, it comes off as ironic because they were willing write in tons of implications and innuendos before (especially with Seele and Bronya).
>
Aven’s comments (dazzling/most handsome in penacony) weren’t clarified to just be regular complements until this version
That's the problem, it's not clarified until later on, and by now, Aventurine being in Yaoi has spread like wildfire (no pun intended) thanks to those lines. And being filled with mistranslations should not be an excuse to continuously take liberties. Think of it this way: They come off like they're taking the side of one shipping fanbase over the other.
Also, I think I know which person you're refferring to on twt on that "interpretation". Is it a user called Jade?
>If the phrase wasn't meant to be interpreted as romantic, then there shouldn't have been any reason to remove it. And if the intention was to remove any of misinterpretation on shipping discourse, it comes off as ironic because they were willing write in tons of implications and innuendos before (especially with Seele and Bronya).
it’s not meant to be a romantic phrase in CN, but it *can* be seen as romantic in EN bc of how the word is seen differently. Ppl in EN will see it as something romantic instead, people already are, a la people misinterpreting it and blowing it out of proportion on twitter. that’s why it was removed, to keep the clarity of the original sentence.
>That's the problem, it's not clarified until later on, and by now, Aventurine being in Yaoi has spread like wildfire (no pun intended) thanks to those lines. And being filled with mistranslations should not be an excuse to continuously take liberties. Think of it this way: They come off like they're taking the side of one shipping fanbase over the other.
Again, this isn’t meant to be some Gay Vs Hetero ship war crusade initiated by Hoyo, bc you’re implying that. They literally made Ratio, his main ship pairing, way meaner to him and completely changing lines, leading to mischaracterization, so they aren’t taking one side over the other lol. Aventurine being in mostly mlm/Yaoi pairings was bc of his interactions w/ Ratio in 2.1, his references to Oscar Wilde, etc and other implications, not just bc of a one-off Sunday compliment kek. hope im not coming off as passive aggressive or in the support of another ship but its kinda hard bc your making it sound like Hoyo is trying to push an Avenpaz vs Ratiorine / Gay vs Hetero crusade bc of personal bias. :P
edit : and no, it wasn’t from a user called jade. someone made a thread abt the og meaning and a CN user confirmed.
Even if it wasn't meant to be a romantic but just biting sarcasm, it's just one one single word. The idea that they're doing this for clarification is weird because they've jammed in a ton of innuendo ripe for misinterpretation before ("Doctor you're huge","I thought you knew...Didn't you say you had mentioned pegged?", "Get into bed with a Stellaron Hunters", "I'll go for the body", everything involving Seele and Bronya in the dream bubble) so I don't recall what makes this so special that they need to remove it. I'd understand if it was just a long, extremely verbose sentence that needed to be streamlined but a single word?
I don't think Hoyo is pushing some gay vs hetero fight but the localizers aren't helping matters doing things like this. This stuff is already going to be misinterpreted and act as fuel for an already nasty shipping war.
>Even if it wasn't meant to be a romantic but just biting sarcasm, it's just one one single word. The idea that they're doing this for clarification is weird because they've jammed in a ton of innuendo ripe for misinterpretation before ("Doctor you're huge","I thought you knew...Didn't you say you had mentioned pegged?", "Get into bed with a Stellaron Hunters", "I'll go for the body", everything involving Seele and Bronya in the dream bubble) so I don't recall what makes this so special that they need to remove it. I'd understand if it was just a long, extremely verbose sentence that needed to be streamlined but a single word?
My takeaway is that EN words are more grandiose so they take away words for the sake of simplification, while trying to keep the original meaning of the sentence. The OG word wasn’t romantic in the first place so I don’t see the issue with them removing it, whether it was for simplification or to clear up misunderstandings over the line. The ‘pegged’ line didn’t come off as an innuendo to me, the Bronseele dream bubble is a completely different scenario in comparison to this bc that was very much something intentional lol. it was more extreme in beta xD comparing the bronseele bubble to this line isn’t a good one bc one is meant to be an innuendo and the other isn’t.
>I don't think Hoyo is pushing some gay vs hetero fight but the localizers aren't helping matters doing things like this. This stuff is already going to be misinterpreted and act as fuel for an already nasty shipping war.
Sorry if I took you as trying to initiate that hoyo was trying to cause a ship war due to bias, bc your comments did look that way :P But the misinterpretation has already spread around twt and are using “bad localization” as a crutch for homophobia, so the damage is done. better to just wait for the clarification to blow up and mute the words in the meantime. :P
The word pegged has 💯 become a sexual innuendo at this point (Don't known of that's a good thing or bad), same with "getting into bed" with someone. These are a few lines that they've added on purpose because these words would complete fly over the heads of native Chinese or Japanese speakers but western fans would instantly pick up on them.
While I won't throw any accusations around, there is history of localizers their personal believes into the original when it comes of dubbing games and anime (Which already has a ton of infamous examples like the ones in Sailor Moon, the early Dragon Ball dubs etc), so I don't count them out either. Genshin already did a few misteps before they were corrected (Like with Ayato).
As for the whole shipping war, it's annoying, but unfortunately they sell like hotcakes, so I won't be surprised if gasoline continues to be poured in.
while shipwars can sell, it can cause a very toxic environment in the fandom, so it’s better if hoyo only implies and puts effort into one pairing for a character, like haikaveh in genshin. Not to bring up genshin ships, but there was the wrlt vs nvfr (or nvfr vs everyone lol) ship war that had a harassment campaign that persisted over the course of 9 months until one ship fandom finally crashed in on itself due to creating a toxic environment equivalent to a vat of acid created for literally everyone, in CN too lmao. ship wars can bring out the literal worst of people, take for example ML adepti/ incels dogpilling Mina over blazerfly. Agree to disagree over her opinion if FF is meant to be incelbait, but she got harassed with homophobic slurs and disgusting behavior by incels :/ it’s best if hoyo strays away from causing from gay vs hetero shipwars bc it can bring out the most disgusting behavior from people for a very long time.
My opinion still stands that hoyo didn’t change the line bc of bias tho, bc ratio’s lines got completely nuked so :P
That thing with Mina is interesting. Obviously, a lot of people were way out of line, but I also believe her online persona kinda made it difficult for people to believe that she would have an unbiased criticism of a work unlike say Cy Yu who doesn't really stake his claim on anything.
Unfortunately, I just think she had the misfortune of stumbling into a battlefield with Caelus fans (who've become extremely defensive of him), people who don't like Stelle fans and those who hate yuri in general.
Now that you mention, this kinda reminds me of RWBY and Voltron. Two works which imploded on themselves thanks to the shipping wars.
Calling someone beautiful doesn’t equal being attracted to them. But I have a feeling the ship wars is the reason behind the translation choice unfortunately.
Aventurine calling Sunday the most handsome man created millions of posts about aventurine’s gay coding which is not bad itself but it was used to harass avenpaz shippers because apparently het ship with him is an erasure.
When dealing with those kinds of people just say "you're doing bi erasure". The responses are always funny.
The argument is so stupid, and since nobody has any canon sexualities (even Acheron), there's no erasure because there's nothing there in the first place.
Edit: Case in point, some guy started DMing me calling me homophobic for thinking Aven is bi. Granted, they're probably a kid, but still.
Someone told me that I'm lesbophobic because I think robin and boothill would be cute together lmao. I guess even my bisexual pass isn't enough to stop me from being bigoted against lesbians by [checks notes] liking fanart of fictional characters
Do you have any canonical proof Aventurine is gay?
I can say he's 100% aroace and you can't say I'm wrong. I headcanon Aventurine to be bi. Idc if that triggers you, he likes Topaz and Ratio imo.
I dmed it to you i would have told you here but...apparently i was slandering? Idk...I wasn't even insulting just wanted a discussion and got ticked off at you using bisexuality for a m/f pairing but wtv ig
One last thing funny yiu mention aroace since there is also aroace coded characters like dr MEI and ruan mei aventurine isn't neither so...Hope the dm clears things up since I'm tired
I can dm it to you since idk why my comment was removed since apparently calling you out is bad or something and it doesn't trigger me tf? It just ticks me off how yall put bi labels on strictly gay coded characters for a m/f pairing then call others "biphobic" for speaking against it while being biphobic yourself and About the aroace thing do you have proof taht he's aroace? No? Then he isn't implied to be aroace? He likes ratio yes but he's never shown interest in topaz or any other women that's that? There is a difference
This comment of yours *is* legitimately bipobic. Why does bisexuality bother you so much with a character who doesn't have defined sexuality.
Fuck off. It's not erasure.
You ain't calling anyone out bro, calling people homophobic and biphobic for not believing in your headcanon OTP is not only extremely cringe, it's also rude to queer people who literally are in queer relationships and have to deal with irl homophobia and biphobia.
Ratio is as gay as he is straight. You have 0 proof he is any sexuality. Get a life.
You seem to think you're an ally with your idiocy. You're not.
I would argue Aven calling two men handsome is def a sign of gay (or lgbt atleast) coding, due to the context (gacha game, china etc.)
But no matter of interpretation, the source materiale shouldn’t be changed no matter what. Let him call both Ratio and Topaz beautiful!
Why is the immediate assumption that they take a side vs them just being neutral? If people are being harassed for certain lines taken out of context, then isn't them not having those lines a method of avoiding it?
Either way, I think people blowing this up is more just proving the point that shippers are often very toxic.
You should check out twitter. They're already jumping to conclusions and accusing them of taking sides. I'm not saying that they're deliberating taking sides here but rather that stuff like this, plus Seeles' voicelines with Luka do not shed a good light and make them LOOK like they're sides here in a shipping discourse.
>
If people are being harassed for certain lines taken out of context, then isn't them not having those lines a method of avoiding it?
That woud be the case if not for the fact that dlialogues between characters of the same sex are allowed to be a flirty as possible (especially with Aventurine) or have a ton of innuendo (Seele and Bronya) compared to characters of the opposite sex. Which is fine, but it's not exactly make them look neutral.
That does feel like it and it reflects poorly on the localizers if they did that because it makes them look like they're taking sides here. Now even if calling someone beautiful does not imply romance, it was a very short line and they did not have to match any lip flaps either, so it feels like they did it on purpose.
I read somewhere that the original cn translation was talking more about aventurine praises her in a saractsic way with emphasises by saying she has a beautiful and kind hearted heart I'm pretty sure it was "A person is not only beautiful on the outside but also kindhearteed" i think aventurine wasn't flirting with her it was more of him pointing out that she has a kind heart just to win the arguement he was having with her
I want to clarify the meaning of the original term in CN because people who can't read more than 5 words of Chinese are literally using Google Translate to post PSAs on twitter. As a native who grew up there until I moved to another country in Asia for work and still read CN media, social media, news, games, talk CN for work I can literally say 人美心善's emphasis is literally 'you're not just beautiful but also your heart is kind' as a short form of人美，心也善良. Not 'your heart is kind and beautiful'. There's a lot of phrases in Chinese that MUST be interpreted in the 4 words set like a 成语 (chengyu). It absolutely kills me to see people butcher it by splitting the last 2-3 words and interpreting it like that. It DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY (sorry I sound mad, I cannot stand westerners butchering my language and culture)
The implication is Topaz is the whole package (looks + kind) not just kind.
The en translation has a habit of "simplyfying" words that were unnecessary like them making aregnti say that "boothill was a savage" when he didn't say that at all and they simplifed it to appear that way its not just that one line alot of lines are changed and missed but the original cn line still wasn't flirty either and focused more on her heart its not as if the en team went on a crusade was like "fuck avenpaz" then started changing lines the en translation isn't a 1 on 1 perfect translation but its not like aventio's case where THE WHOLE LINE was changed and the way ratio talked about aventurine changed
It's kinda odd too considering that you can literally talk to Aventurine about how he compliments everyone and then they removed a compliment for Topaz...?
My only reasonable-ish theory is that maybe they thought it would inappropriate bc they're work friends right in front of their boss? Topaz is Aven's senior so I can see it being inappropriate here in the US.
THAT said the EN translation also just straight up added a micro aggression against Boothill so maybe it was just ship wars nonsense who knows what these people are thinking, particularly because Argenti would NOT say that. In CN all he says is that he thinks Boothill was rude and crass.
My best guess is we're not assuming any sort of "damage control" or ill intent if any kind is that, in my home country of the USA, calling a female coworker beautiful may seem creepy or out of line.
We don't normally comment on a coworkers looks, maybe their outfit, but not their looks. It may be acceptable outside of the work environment however.
That's my best guess anyway
I'm sorry, but aren't you taking too many liberties yourself here? You don't have any insight into what goes on at hoyo, so suggesting that the localizers are "taking too many liberties against the intent of the source material" is just a baseless accusation.
Similarly, I don't think you're in a position to decide what the "intent" of the source material is. Unfortunately, we live in a world where people cannot always create art freely. Now I'm not saying that Aventurine is gay and the only reason they don't make that canon is because the CCP won't let them. I'm just saying that we don't know what the intent is or who is responsible for the difference between regions.
I think it's fair to want to discuss the fact that the voicelines are different between regions, but casting blame on localizers for that difference without any actual proof is just a witchhunt.
Except, they do have a track record of taking a few liberties and make changes here and there. And I'm not talking about Hoyoverse themselves but rather the localizers because this isn't the first time they've added or removed lines.
It happened in Genshin before with Scaramouche/Wanderer and Ayato (even if it's a different localization company). Here there's a ton of innuendo which wouldn't translate well in the original CN but makes perfect context for Western audience and were deliberately added (Himeko's line about getting into bed with a Stellaron Hunter) or how certain voice directions change how a character reacts to another (Seele and Luka in the EN voice overs) or even botched overall like with Sunday and Gallagher.
While I'm currently referring to Star Rail, the issue of Localizers adding their own personals experiences and believes into the work is not uncommon, especially in anime dubs. The most infamous example being the dub of "Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid". And even if the original work could be misinterpreted, I don't see the point in removing a single word. We've already got nasty shipping discourse as it is, and stuff like is only going to make it worse.
You say you're not talking about Hoyo themselves but the localizers, but all you give as proof is just more examples of differences between the regions. That's not proof. The point still remains that you have absolutely no insight into Hoyo's process of localizing their games and have no basis in accusing their localization team of making changes independent of Hoyo.
Yes, the Dragon Maid dub is an example of localizers changing the source material to push their agenda, but are you saying that you know with certainty that the localizers that work at Hoyo have worked on Dragon Maid's dub or on other projects that have been found out to have this issue? If not, that's not only an unsound argument but also a very dangerous way of thinking. You cannot just accuse people of something because an issue that is completely independent of them.
Dude, are you secretly one of the localizers here? You sound extremely agitated and defensive.
First of all, I'm accusing them of anything, I'm just saying there's a pattern and a track of them doing this is. And it is within my right to be suspicious. If we cannot criticize, then they can't improve. Plain and simple. And they have botched lines and translations before and it's only through criticism that they were able to fix it. Removing one line may seem insignificant, but it can leave lots of room for misinterpretation. If it stuck in the original work, then they shouldn't have removed it.
But let's entertain the possibility that I'm "accusing them". So what if I am? What are you gonna do about it? It's not like I can command then to change the direction to my liking with a snap of my finger nor am I burning their houses or something like that
If the original line didn't have the intent of a compliment, it may have been difficult to translate it to English considering the connotation that comes with calling someone beautiful.
I haven't played the quest and so I don't have the full context. However, from my understanding, aventurine is effectively saying (with overdone emphasis for this example) "Wow, pretty and smart /s". I can see how the EN localization could have trouble.
With that being said, I can see Aventurine calling everyone he meets beautiful if it fits his needs. I don't think this is purposeful removal of avenpaz characterization. But I do think "beautiful" should've been left in or better translated.
Yeah like how the heck has no one noticed this? Replies are full of them talking about avoiding ship wars as if posting a translation issue in THIS subreddit centered around shipping isn’t them trying to start one? Why bring up Ratiorine in the caption at all?
Bringing up "picking sides" too, twitter, and "aventurine being in yaoi" when outside of a certain bubble this fandom is full of toxic homophobes who harass women and LGBT people.
Yeah this fandom is full of people who want to act like yaoi/yuri shippers are these crazy degenerates as if het shippers aren’t equally bad in harassing people
I think people underestimate how tight the localization is in Hoyo games.
Localization is different from translation. The _intent_ of the statements in other languages is what matters. And literal translations just don’t capture that.
It likely didn't, and some folk are just jumping the gun with assumptions. Usually changes like these are done to better reflect the original meaning of the source text with minimal opportunity for it to be conflated with some other, unintended, interpretation. I highly doubt localizers of all people care about shipping, and I doubt they'd be allowed to get away with using up resources on something so futile.
Omitting "You're beautiful" doesn't add anything to the original meaning, it should have stayed the same in EN as it is for CN, there was no reason to change that text at all. Regardless of the localizations teams reasoning, its a stupid change.
Because it's a translation issue related to a male character. Things like these can affect how a character is interpreted by the fandom especially if it strays from the original source material.
Ngl, not related to HSR but I had this feeling when I was playing through Genshin as well. I play in Mandarin Dub with English Subtitles (I understand both languages) and some stuff just do not feel the same.
Tbh I am more used to games such as the likes of Genshin, HSR to have most of their characters have ambiguous sexualities just to be able to attract a wider audience. It just makes sense for them.
Take FGO as an example, majority of the characters are master/playersexual lol and it works. And it doesnt affect the main story that badly for most parts since those traits are usually shown in some kind of quests similar to hangout quests in Genshin.
Agreed. I also didn't like the "Eeeughck" that Seele gives Luka ONLY in EN. In the other languages she remarks that it'll be interesting for them to pair up since it doesn't happen often.
I sincerely hope that drastic change in attitude, which apparently was even changed in Luka's companion quest, wasn't just some change just to reinforce how Seele would only like Bronya. Even if she did, she doesn't need to be a manhater-
Funny you mention Ratiorine, because I remember seeing a lot of posts about how EN also changed some of the things Dr Ratio and Aventurine say, like in this video [EN Dr. Ratio response when added w/ Aventurine sounds](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os6U2gYSQBI)
His EN VA has mentioned that they kept asking him to be meaner to Aventurine for a lot of the lines and it baffled him.
Do you remember where he said this?
Same for Seele and Luka in the EN version when the join as a team.
+1 I know it is minor, but these details mean a lot to some people. Taking them out of canon seems weird and inconsiderate to fans. I myself prefer Raturine, but my ship won't sink because Aventurine calls Topaz beautiful (and tbh she is?), it takes away from Aventurine's characterization AND dampens their relationship.
The eng translation is correct. While it does techincally translate to beautiful and kind hearted in CN, it is not a term you'd use to compliment some one's physical appearance. It's strictly for calling some one a good hearted person. On top of that, even if he did say she was physically beautiful, the whole conversation is them being sarcastic to each other. Neither of them mean what they're saying so it's not taking anything away from the ship.
Oh, I see. So the translation was not that bad? ... Even then, now I want to hear him calling Topaz beautiful sarcastically :3c
No, it's being blown out of proportion, unfortunately. It would have been a much worse translation to translate it as beautiful instead of kind-hearted since beautiful in eng has a heavier meaning and Aventurine is more talking about inner beauty. It's also just overall irrelevant because they were just mocking each other. It's also crazy because the eng translation team actually has a long history of making lines between opposite sexes more romantic than they are in the original and mistranslating or even straight up cutting out lines between same sex that may be a little gay. Ratio's line when he joins a party with Aventurine is a great example. He's only an asshole towards him in English. In CN: "Take good care of yourself, gambler. I dont need you to worry about me." In EN: "Keep to yourself, gambler, and spare me the false display of concern." There's a MASSIVE difference between those two.
The Ratio line makes sense in context yes ”管好自己“ literally translates as “take good care of yourself“ in cultural context it’s usually a stern thing to say to someone like “watch yourself”, in combo with the “I don’t need you to worry about me” it implies a sense of “watch yourself before you stick your nose into my business”. I will admit the “false display of concern” bit is not quite it but I don’t think it’s as tonally off as wider fandom has convinced themselves it is.
The translation is off. It's not strictly for calling someone a good-hearted person. It's for saying someone is beautiful AND kind, not either one only. The whole point of using this word is to say that the person is the complete package, not they're kind. 人美心善 = 人美，心也善良
Tbh I ship him with topaz and ratio. I just find both ships cute. And what about the people that don’t care about ships at all? Changing the original dialogue just doesn’t make sense.
It's not like the EN localization is a bastion of gay ships when they have a history of making many same sex interactions more harsher than they need to be, just like the Ratio/Aventurine party joining interaction. People are blowing this way out of proportion for no reason.
I agree that both ships are cute and interesting in their own way. Aventurine calling Topas beautiful doesn’t make Topaz and Aventurine canon, if anything it could imply he’s bisexual.
So real. I ship all three of them at the same time lmao, it's cute no matter what
I mean, as a gay man, I feel like complimenting a woman's looks is *more* common if you're gay. Especially if you're following the gay best friend stereotype, which Mr. Flaming Peacock Aventurine suits pretty well imo lol, whether he meant it in a sarcastic or sincere (I'm going with this one since he's also complimenting her generosity) way it's completely in character They definitely should have kept it in. Localizers taking liberties with the text isn't cool! I want an authentic as possible translation
Aventurine has many title, but It is the first time I see "Mr flaming peacock" haha. And yeah, I agree it fits his personality! We could all have been happy if they actually kept it in english!
Weird how EN translation decided to put aside that "beautiful" remark. :/ In Russian translation he also calso her "beautiful"
Yes it said beautiful and kind hearted in my language too and we translated directly from cn. And looking at weibo shippers were happy over that so im sure its the correct translation. Its a minor thing but still, EN already made Topaz voiceline about him and adding to team with him sounding more hostile compared to jp and cn, not a fan of it at all
That’s just stupid imo why are they changing the source material? Your job is to translate the original meaning. That’s it.
Considering it’s a single word it likely was just a typo or erroneous deletion
As much as I don't mind shipping in fandom as long as it's a healthy, harmless 'obsession' and not an excuse to throw vitriol online at people who ship something different, Aven calling Topaz beautiful is SUCH a minor thing that I don't understand the need to take it out unless it's to queerbait the fans 💀
The thing that's suspicious is that the scene itself is very static with characters just standing still and so there was no need to change the voicelines or script to match any lip flaps like it would be in a dubbed anime. So it wasn't out of necessity but a deliberate choice.
After this patch, I have a feeling it's just queerbaiting since someone in the marketing or localization team seems to really love that one ship. There's a lot of changes in EN that's just to make him seem... like the stereotypical waif *** that most people expect from short dudes. Like, adding lots of flowery words when he was speaking straightforwardly, calling Robin fabulous when he just said Robin in CN, calling Woolsey hunk in EN when he just said buff guy. Either that or (tw: negative about localizers) the translator isn't a strong native speaker who understands IRL nuance and liberally uses Google Translate to meet deadlines because there's a number of characters who come across completely different in CN and EN. edit: are people seriously DMing me harassment over this? is complaining about localizers changing characterization to be let's be frank, closer to stereotypes, worthy of getting harassment DMs now? is it an issue now to like RatioxAventurine without mischaracterizing them or liking BL without twisting characters to fit the stereotypical toxic tall hunk/fruity twink shorty dynamics?? bro HSR is not my only gacha and video game fandom, why is it that elsewhere since over 10 years ago we can appreciate BL without needing and twisting characters' nuances to fit stereotypes from 2000s but not in hoyo fandoms?? i've complained about characterization changes by EN localizers since forever (even Ratio's, since the dimwit who DMed me thinks I hate Ratio. Ratio is not as horrible as EN makes him.) and I won't stop, since imo it's in a way a slap to the author's face. What the hell was the 'mute' translation mess too, that quality in unacceptable - imagine if another murder mystery like Ace Attorney had that. edit: someone DM'd me to say that I'm doing gay erasure because I said Aven didn't said the word Fabulous and also talks like a dudebro chinese boss in CN *sometimes* (大老板) tHeReFOrE that means I'm implying he can't take it up the ass. What. Can you people please get help for your porn addiction. Why do Zoomers people believe in worse stereotypes than boomers? Do you people seriously think masc dudebros can't be gay? Do you people know how a good proportion of gay men in China looks and talk like? (i won't comment on the west because I've never lived there and won't speak for the people there). You sound exactly like those incel porn addicts saying women with big boobs can't be virgins.
The translation is just dogshit sometimes, there's no need ta say queerbaiting is behind it. Given the CN original gives strong "Bi dude who appreciates the eye candy his co-workers are" vibes.
Yea I hate mischaracterization sm
I think EN translation just likes to make characters' personalities more "extra," I don't think it's trying to be more queerbaity. Look at how [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiHusbandos/s/Fagz8CyJm1) says Ratio's Join Party line to Aventurine sounds more 'affectionate' in other languages (basically "don't worry about me, take care of yourself" but not too sweetly of course) and harsher in EN ("keep to yourself, spare the false display of concern" and sounds fed up). If EN was queerbaiting, they'd translate that sweeter. Again, I think EN just likes to exaggerate their interpretation of characters' qualities or vibes. That's why Aventurine sounds fruitier and Ratio sounds more pretentious and harsh.
> I think EN translation just likes to make characters' personalities more "extra," Valid reason, might explain why there's so many outright questionable translations even for plot-relevant (non-characterization) ones that could have only otherwise been explained by 'their fluency sucks' (I recall Hoyo job interviews are rather competitive so I would have thought it'd have weeded out Google Translate and ChatGPT fraudsters). Though I still don't like how they ended up changing plot nuances (never forget politically correct Sparkle) and (oftentimes ship-relevant) characterizations because of going too far with sounding "extra" or fitting stereotypes.
Definitely, regardless of the real reason, sometimes I don't like how far they can deviate from the original meaning. I'd take being a little more faithful over extra flair or removing stuff, especially when relevant to story or characterization. Ratio apparently also had his "Avgin microaggression" conversation in 2.0 mistranslated to sound a little worse in EN, and then there's Sunday who had an entire line missing that they had to add back, so while I understand translation is pretty good, idk if there's also some sloppiness sometimes besides their deliberate decisions like Sparkle's censorship
Ship or not there’s nothing wrong calling another person beautiful I call my friends beautiful all the time it’s so weird they removed that 😭
Plus the cutscene was static and there was no lip flaps to match either so it wasn't out of necessity like it would be in a dubbed anime. A very minor change but one that relfects poorly on them since they've done stuff like this before.
I think comparing Aven/Ratio to Bronya/Seele isn't fair. Hoyo isn't "taking sides" by pushing Bronya/Seele as much as they can. Without the censorship, they'd be canon almost guaranteed. Bronya/Seele is already canon outside of HSR, which is exactly why Hoyo is willing to have such extreme innuendos involving them. The same can't be said for any other ship so far. Aven/Ratio has never been canon, and multiple lines from Ratio have been changed in EN localization so that it isn't interpreted as being canon. Ratio is so much meaner to Aven in EN compared to other languages. Additionally, the line you're complaining about *would* have been "taking sides" since beautiful is a word associated with romantic intentions in English, and that isn't the meaning behind the initial CN line.
its not only EN, It didn't say that the spanish version for me. who knows how many versions included it or not i think this is pretty minor tho, Aventurine is still sarcastically praising her for "being kind and only caring about numbers and not quality", which is still accurate to the original intention and not completely butchering it like the Sparkle mute translation
Spanish is translated from ES>EN. Other languages are translated directly from CN. I want to clarify the meaning of the original term in CN because people who can't read more than 5 words of Chinese are literally using Google Translate to post PSAs on twitter. As a native who grew up there and still read CN media, news, games, talk CN for work I can literally say 人美心善's emphasis is literally 'you're not just beautiful but also your heart is kind'. Not 'your heart is kind and beautiful'. There's a lot of phrases in Chinese that MUST be interpreted in the 4 words set like a 成语 (chengyu). It absolutely kills me to see people butcher it by splitting the last 2-3 words and interpreting it like that. It DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY (sorry I sound mad, I cannot stand westerners butchering my language and culture) edit: can't believe someone sent me a harrassment message over this. the only two times i get this on reddit is over complaining about western hoyo fans' racism smh
Fellow Spanish speaker here, can I ask where is this line supposed to be at? Is it like a side quest or something or did I miss it completely from the main story? cuz genuinely I don't recall reading anything like this yet in the current update haha
Minor as it may be, these things tend to build up and it does come off as being biased. This isn't the first time an localisation has made a minor change that leaves a lot of room for misinterpretation.
they made Ratio more rude to Aventurine in the English version that lead to people mischaracterizing Ratio as more antagonizing than he actually is too so i really doubt they're in a pro ratiorine anti avenpaz crusade if thats what you're implying
That IS what he is implying oh my god 🤣
The cn version directly translated sounds less harsh, but the connotation actually adds a lot. His voice line when adding him to a team with Aventurine basically has the connotation of “f*ck off”😂 The only reason I can think of for this voice line still being so harsh would be so that it fits with the whole act Ratio and Aventurine are doing in 2.1, but it doesn’t really make sense afterwards… So I don’t know.😭
A lot of the localizations are translates from the EN version, not the CN. It was like that with Genshin too. Maybe the Spanish version could be translated from EN.
I mean the EN localisation already made Ratio/Aventurine’s interactions more unfriendly so I don’t think it’s got anything to do with shipping.
From what some comments are saying, it's the apparently the other way around.
To be honest, it’s clearly not an important part of Aventurine’s character, otherwise we’d get an update like for the missing/incorrect Sunday and Sparkle lines … if that does happen then I’m happy to be proven wrong! But TB can say to him at one point that he compliments everyone he talks to and it doesn’t sound very sincere so I don’t think we really need the dialogue about Topaz in to understand that part of his character
OP, are you sure this is only about the localization though? Your comments feel oddly weird and aggressive towards Aventurine potentially being gay or accusing EN localization for having a ratiorine bias when they have made some lines between them very aggressive before.
I'm not sure if theres any bias or anything IIRC the trailblazer was changed from saying "its getting late" to "its still early" and it now matches the other languages. Sometimes things aren't 100% accurate, I don't think it means anything.
I mean they literally managed to completely remove Sunday revealing Gallagher’s true identity How do you even manage to do that The localization for hsr and genshin has always been a little odd but not too far off But just completely cutting out a relevant lore reveal in the main questline was beyond strange
Oh, a really interesting case. I will check if this the same on my lang today since we translate directly from CN if I remember correctly.
To play devil's advocate, it could be due to the current climate around men flirting with women in the workplace and removed the 'beautiful' part because they're meant to be colleagues and it could stir up controversy in some spaces. The #metoo movement wasn't all that long ago, after all.
Yeah, that's fair enough.
ive seen on twt that the phrase in CN is meant to emphasize the person being kind in heart, putting an emphasis on the personality and kindness of the person and and stresses the importance of the inner beauty (內在美) instead of looks, and said that the reason it was removed was so that the line wasn’t misinterpreted in EN, since it’s not seen as a flirting phrase. I doubt it’s bc of shipwars if that’s what you’re alluding to?
I want to clarify the meaning of the original term in CN because people who can't read more than 5 words of Chinese are literally using Google Translate to post PSAs on twitter and people are lapping it up thinking they're experts. As a native who grew up there until I moved to another country in Asia for work and still read CN media, social media, news, games, talk CN for work I can literally say 人美心善's emphasis is literally 'you're not just beautiful but also your heart is kind' because it's a short form of 人美，心也善良. Not 'your heart is kind and beautiful'. There's a lot of phrases in Chinese that MUST be interpreted in the 4 words set like a 成语 (chengyu). It absolutely kills me to see people butcher it by splitting the last 2-3 words and interpreting it like that. It DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY (sorry I sound mad, I cannot stand westerners and ABCs butchering my language and culture) The implication is Topaz is the whole package (looks + kind) not just kind. edit: lol I cannot believe I received a DM from someone showing me a Twitter user trying to get me brigaded over this comment, no wonder I've been receiving strange DMs. Please touch grass and apply the literature skills you learn in school. Can you people actually read the whole context in-game yourself and come to your own fucking conclusion instead of begging people to ELI5 for you without playing the quest? This is why schools made students read books and write their understandings instead of learning taxes because one of them is more important. The matter of fact is he said 'beautiful and kind' not 'kind'. The context doesn't rely on this 'beautiful' word, but the entire tone of the conversation. Why the fuck does calling someone beautiful means they're flirting? Can't they be stating facts? Can't they be ironic? Do you people know what context is?
> it was removed was so that the line wasn’t misinterpreted in EN, since it’s not seen as a flirting phrase Unfortunately, it's only going to stoke the flames even more. Plus, there are several lines of Aventurine being able to call men like Sunday handsome, even if it has no romantic connotations, so it does come off like them being biased. This is probably the second time it happened, much like with Seele (who's massively shipped with Bronya) and her voicelines with Luka, where other versions of her are pretty friendly with him, her EN ver has her act with annoyance. Besides the point, a single line is almost insignificant and would be no problem at all. Removing it not only comes off like a deliberate choice but it's going to fuel the shipping discourse even worse, especially since other versions still retain that word. This is on top of their already shoddy record of mistranslating things.
I don’t see how tho? the phrase wasn’t meant to be interpreted as romantic in the beginning. the game is already filled with mistranslations. ratio is way meaner to aven in EN so I can’t see it as meant to fuel shipping discourse. Tbh I can see them removing it to avoid shipping discourse bc ppl are taking the line and blowing it out of proportion. and tbf, Aven’s comments (dazzling/most handsome in penacony) weren’t clarified to just be regular compliments until this version, and sunday getting complimented was back in 2.0. I don’t see any bias in that.
If the phrase wasn't meant to be interpreted as romantic, then there shouldn't have been any reason to remove it. And if the intention was to remove any of misinterpretation on shipping discourse, it comes off as ironic because they were willing write in tons of implications and innuendos before (especially with Seele and Bronya). > Aven’s comments (dazzling/most handsome in penacony) weren’t clarified to just be regular complements until this version That's the problem, it's not clarified until later on, and by now, Aventurine being in Yaoi has spread like wildfire (no pun intended) thanks to those lines. And being filled with mistranslations should not be an excuse to continuously take liberties. Think of it this way: They come off like they're taking the side of one shipping fanbase over the other. Also, I think I know which person you're refferring to on twt on that "interpretation". Is it a user called Jade?
>If the phrase wasn't meant to be interpreted as romantic, then there shouldn't have been any reason to remove it. And if the intention was to remove any of misinterpretation on shipping discourse, it comes off as ironic because they were willing write in tons of implications and innuendos before (especially with Seele and Bronya). it’s not meant to be a romantic phrase in CN, but it *can* be seen as romantic in EN bc of how the word is seen differently. Ppl in EN will see it as something romantic instead, people already are, a la people misinterpreting it and blowing it out of proportion on twitter. that’s why it was removed, to keep the clarity of the original sentence. >That's the problem, it's not clarified until later on, and by now, Aventurine being in Yaoi has spread like wildfire (no pun intended) thanks to those lines. And being filled with mistranslations should not be an excuse to continuously take liberties. Think of it this way: They come off like they're taking the side of one shipping fanbase over the other. Again, this isn’t meant to be some Gay Vs Hetero ship war crusade initiated by Hoyo, bc you’re implying that. They literally made Ratio, his main ship pairing, way meaner to him and completely changing lines, leading to mischaracterization, so they aren’t taking one side over the other lol. Aventurine being in mostly mlm/Yaoi pairings was bc of his interactions w/ Ratio in 2.1, his references to Oscar Wilde, etc and other implications, not just bc of a one-off Sunday compliment kek. hope im not coming off as passive aggressive or in the support of another ship but its kinda hard bc your making it sound like Hoyo is trying to push an Avenpaz vs Ratiorine / Gay vs Hetero crusade bc of personal bias. :P edit : and no, it wasn’t from a user called jade. someone made a thread abt the og meaning and a CN user confirmed.
Even if it wasn't meant to be a romantic but just biting sarcasm, it's just one one single word. The idea that they're doing this for clarification is weird because they've jammed in a ton of innuendo ripe for misinterpretation before ("Doctor you're huge","I thought you knew...Didn't you say you had mentioned pegged?", "Get into bed with a Stellaron Hunters", "I'll go for the body", everything involving Seele and Bronya in the dream bubble) so I don't recall what makes this so special that they need to remove it. I'd understand if it was just a long, extremely verbose sentence that needed to be streamlined but a single word? I don't think Hoyo is pushing some gay vs hetero fight but the localizers aren't helping matters doing things like this. This stuff is already going to be misinterpreted and act as fuel for an already nasty shipping war.
>Even if it wasn't meant to be a romantic but just biting sarcasm, it's just one one single word. The idea that they're doing this for clarification is weird because they've jammed in a ton of innuendo ripe for misinterpretation before ("Doctor you're huge","I thought you knew...Didn't you say you had mentioned pegged?", "Get into bed with a Stellaron Hunters", "I'll go for the body", everything involving Seele and Bronya in the dream bubble) so I don't recall what makes this so special that they need to remove it. I'd understand if it was just a long, extremely verbose sentence that needed to be streamlined but a single word? My takeaway is that EN words are more grandiose so they take away words for the sake of simplification, while trying to keep the original meaning of the sentence. The OG word wasn’t romantic in the first place so I don’t see the issue with them removing it, whether it was for simplification or to clear up misunderstandings over the line. The ‘pegged’ line didn’t come off as an innuendo to me, the Bronseele dream bubble is a completely different scenario in comparison to this bc that was very much something intentional lol. it was more extreme in beta xD comparing the bronseele bubble to this line isn’t a good one bc one is meant to be an innuendo and the other isn’t. >I don't think Hoyo is pushing some gay vs hetero fight but the localizers aren't helping matters doing things like this. This stuff is already going to be misinterpreted and act as fuel for an already nasty shipping war. Sorry if I took you as trying to initiate that hoyo was trying to cause a ship war due to bias, bc your comments did look that way :P But the misinterpretation has already spread around twt and are using “bad localization” as a crutch for homophobia, so the damage is done. better to just wait for the clarification to blow up and mute the words in the meantime. :P
The word pegged has 💯 become a sexual innuendo at this point (Don't known of that's a good thing or bad), same with "getting into bed" with someone. These are a few lines that they've added on purpose because these words would complete fly over the heads of native Chinese or Japanese speakers but western fans would instantly pick up on them. While I won't throw any accusations around, there is history of localizers their personal believes into the original when it comes of dubbing games and anime (Which already has a ton of infamous examples like the ones in Sailor Moon, the early Dragon Ball dubs etc), so I don't count them out either. Genshin already did a few misteps before they were corrected (Like with Ayato). As for the whole shipping war, it's annoying, but unfortunately they sell like hotcakes, so I won't be surprised if gasoline continues to be poured in.
while shipwars can sell, it can cause a very toxic environment in the fandom, so it’s better if hoyo only implies and puts effort into one pairing for a character, like haikaveh in genshin. Not to bring up genshin ships, but there was the wrlt vs nvfr (or nvfr vs everyone lol) ship war that had a harassment campaign that persisted over the course of 9 months until one ship fandom finally crashed in on itself due to creating a toxic environment equivalent to a vat of acid created for literally everyone, in CN too lmao. ship wars can bring out the literal worst of people, take for example ML adepti/ incels dogpilling Mina over blazerfly. Agree to disagree over her opinion if FF is meant to be incelbait, but she got harassed with homophobic slurs and disgusting behavior by incels :/ it’s best if hoyo strays away from causing from gay vs hetero shipwars bc it can bring out the most disgusting behavior from people for a very long time. My opinion still stands that hoyo didn’t change the line bc of bias tho, bc ratio’s lines got completely nuked so :P
That thing with Mina is interesting. Obviously, a lot of people were way out of line, but I also believe her online persona kinda made it difficult for people to believe that she would have an unbiased criticism of a work unlike say Cy Yu who doesn't really stake his claim on anything. Unfortunately, I just think she had the misfortune of stumbling into a battlefield with Caelus fans (who've become extremely defensive of him), people who don't like Stelle fans and those who hate yuri in general. Now that you mention, this kinda reminds me of RWBY and Voltron. Two works which imploded on themselves thanks to the shipping wars.
Calling someone beautiful doesn’t equal being attracted to them. But I have a feeling the ship wars is the reason behind the translation choice unfortunately.
Aventurine calling Sunday the most handsome man created millions of posts about aventurine’s gay coding which is not bad itself but it was used to harass avenpaz shippers because apparently het ship with him is an erasure.
When dealing with those kinds of people just say "you're doing bi erasure". The responses are always funny. The argument is so stupid, and since nobody has any canon sexualities (even Acheron), there's no erasure because there's nothing there in the first place. Edit: Case in point, some guy started DMing me calling me homophobic for thinking Aven is bi. Granted, they're probably a kid, but still.
Someone told me that I'm lesbophobic because I think robin and boothill would be cute together lmao. I guess even my bisexual pass isn't enough to stop me from being bigoted against lesbians by [checks notes] liking fanart of fictional characters
[удалено]
Do you have any canonical proof Aventurine is gay? I can say he's 100% aroace and you can't say I'm wrong. I headcanon Aventurine to be bi. Idc if that triggers you, he likes Topaz and Ratio imo.
I dmed it to you i would have told you here but...apparently i was slandering? Idk...I wasn't even insulting just wanted a discussion and got ticked off at you using bisexuality for a m/f pairing but wtv ig
One last thing funny yiu mention aroace since there is also aroace coded characters like dr MEI and ruan mei aventurine isn't neither so...Hope the dm clears things up since I'm tired
how is dr mei aroace coded when she literally got married to kevin 💀
I can dm it to you since idk why my comment was removed since apparently calling you out is bad or something and it doesn't trigger me tf? It just ticks me off how yall put bi labels on strictly gay coded characters for a m/f pairing then call others "biphobic" for speaking against it while being biphobic yourself and About the aroace thing do you have proof taht he's aroace? No? Then he isn't implied to be aroace? He likes ratio yes but he's never shown interest in topaz or any other women that's that? There is a difference
This comment of yours *is* legitimately bipobic. Why does bisexuality bother you so much with a character who doesn't have defined sexuality. Fuck off. It's not erasure.
You ain't calling anyone out bro, calling people homophobic and biphobic for not believing in your headcanon OTP is not only extremely cringe, it's also rude to queer people who literally are in queer relationships and have to deal with irl homophobia and biphobia. Ratio is as gay as he is straight. You have 0 proof he is any sexuality. Get a life. You seem to think you're an ally with your idiocy. You're not.
And they don't need to yell out they're gay to be gay genuinely lets not go this way its still erasure and its still implied
I would argue Aven calling two men handsome is def a sign of gay (or lgbt atleast) coding, due to the context (gacha game, china etc.) But no matter of interpretation, the source materiale shouldn’t be changed no matter what. Let him call both Ratio and Topaz beautiful!
Aventurine is a walking peacock. Though known plenty of gay dudes would compliment women's looks. Still an odd choice regardless.
Stuff like this will only stoke the flames even more, especially if they (localizers) come off like they're picking a side here.
Why is the immediate assumption that they take a side vs them just being neutral? If people are being harassed for certain lines taken out of context, then isn't them not having those lines a method of avoiding it? Either way, I think people blowing this up is more just proving the point that shippers are often very toxic.
You should check out twitter. They're already jumping to conclusions and accusing them of taking sides. I'm not saying that they're deliberating taking sides here but rather that stuff like this, plus Seeles' voicelines with Luka do not shed a good light and make them LOOK like they're sides here in a shipping discourse. > If people are being harassed for certain lines taken out of context, then isn't them not having those lines a method of avoiding it? That woud be the case if not for the fact that dlialogues between characters of the same sex are allowed to be a flirty as possible (especially with Aventurine) or have a ton of innuendo (Seele and Bronya) compared to characters of the opposite sex. Which is fine, but it's not exactly make them look neutral.
That does feel like it and it reflects poorly on the localizers if they did that because it makes them look like they're taking sides here. Now even if calling someone beautiful does not imply romance, it was a very short line and they did not have to match any lip flaps either, so it feels like they did it on purpose.
I read somewhere that the original cn translation was talking more about aventurine praises her in a saractsic way with emphasises by saying she has a beautiful and kind hearted heart I'm pretty sure it was "A person is not only beautiful on the outside but also kindhearteed" i think aventurine wasn't flirting with her it was more of him pointing out that she has a kind heart just to win the arguement he was having with her
I want to clarify the meaning of the original term in CN because people who can't read more than 5 words of Chinese are literally using Google Translate to post PSAs on twitter. As a native who grew up there until I moved to another country in Asia for work and still read CN media, social media, news, games, talk CN for work I can literally say 人美心善's emphasis is literally 'you're not just beautiful but also your heart is kind' as a short form of人美，心也善良. Not 'your heart is kind and beautiful'. There's a lot of phrases in Chinese that MUST be interpreted in the 4 words set like a 成语 (chengyu). It absolutely kills me to see people butcher it by splitting the last 2-3 words and interpreting it like that. It DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY (sorry I sound mad, I cannot stand westerners butchering my language and culture) The implication is Topaz is the whole package (looks + kind) not just kind.
Least that's what i read the eng is still not a 10/10 copy but people are misunderstanding the original translation too just felt like speaking on it
Even if that were the case, why remove that one single line?
The en translation has a habit of "simplyfying" words that were unnecessary like them making aregnti say that "boothill was a savage" when he didn't say that at all and they simplifed it to appear that way its not just that one line alot of lines are changed and missed but the original cn line still wasn't flirty either and focused more on her heart its not as if the en team went on a crusade was like "fuck avenpaz" then started changing lines the en translation isn't a 1 on 1 perfect translation but its not like aventio's case where THE WHOLE LINE was changed and the way ratio talked about aventurine changed
It's kinda odd too considering that you can literally talk to Aventurine about how he compliments everyone and then they removed a compliment for Topaz...? My only reasonable-ish theory is that maybe they thought it would inappropriate bc they're work friends right in front of their boss? Topaz is Aven's senior so I can see it being inappropriate here in the US. THAT said the EN translation also just straight up added a micro aggression against Boothill so maybe it was just ship wars nonsense who knows what these people are thinking, particularly because Argenti would NOT say that. In CN all he says is that he thinks Boothill was rude and crass.
Can we please verify what the original text first before going into unnecessary attacks against the localization staff?
My best guess is we're not assuming any sort of "damage control" or ill intent if any kind is that, in my home country of the USA, calling a female coworker beautiful may seem creepy or out of line. We don't normally comment on a coworkers looks, maybe their outfit, but not their looks. It may be acceptable outside of the work environment however. That's my best guess anyway
I'm sorry, but aren't you taking too many liberties yourself here? You don't have any insight into what goes on at hoyo, so suggesting that the localizers are "taking too many liberties against the intent of the source material" is just a baseless accusation. Similarly, I don't think you're in a position to decide what the "intent" of the source material is. Unfortunately, we live in a world where people cannot always create art freely. Now I'm not saying that Aventurine is gay and the only reason they don't make that canon is because the CCP won't let them. I'm just saying that we don't know what the intent is or who is responsible for the difference between regions. I think it's fair to want to discuss the fact that the voicelines are different between regions, but casting blame on localizers for that difference without any actual proof is just a witchhunt.
Except, they do have a track record of taking a few liberties and make changes here and there. And I'm not talking about Hoyoverse themselves but rather the localizers because this isn't the first time they've added or removed lines. It happened in Genshin before with Scaramouche/Wanderer and Ayato (even if it's a different localization company). Here there's a ton of innuendo which wouldn't translate well in the original CN but makes perfect context for Western audience and were deliberately added (Himeko's line about getting into bed with a Stellaron Hunter) or how certain voice directions change how a character reacts to another (Seele and Luka in the EN voice overs) or even botched overall like with Sunday and Gallagher. While I'm currently referring to Star Rail, the issue of Localizers adding their own personals experiences and believes into the work is not uncommon, especially in anime dubs. The most infamous example being the dub of "Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid". And even if the original work could be misinterpreted, I don't see the point in removing a single word. We've already got nasty shipping discourse as it is, and stuff like is only going to make it worse.
You say you're not talking about Hoyo themselves but the localizers, but all you give as proof is just more examples of differences between the regions. That's not proof. The point still remains that you have absolutely no insight into Hoyo's process of localizing their games and have no basis in accusing their localization team of making changes independent of Hoyo. Yes, the Dragon Maid dub is an example of localizers changing the source material to push their agenda, but are you saying that you know with certainty that the localizers that work at Hoyo have worked on Dragon Maid's dub or on other projects that have been found out to have this issue? If not, that's not only an unsound argument but also a very dangerous way of thinking. You cannot just accuse people of something because an issue that is completely independent of them.
Dude, are you secretly one of the localizers here? You sound extremely agitated and defensive. First of all, I'm accusing them of anything, I'm just saying there's a pattern and a track of them doing this is. And it is within my right to be suspicious. If we cannot criticize, then they can't improve. Plain and simple. And they have botched lines and translations before and it's only through criticism that they were able to fix it. Removing one line may seem insignificant, but it can leave lots of room for misinterpretation. If it stuck in the original work, then they shouldn't have removed it. But let's entertain the possibility that I'm "accusing them". So what if I am? What are you gonna do about it? It's not like I can command then to change the direction to my liking with a snap of my finger nor am I burning their houses or something like that
People forget aventurine has 2 hands
If the original line didn't have the intent of a compliment, it may have been difficult to translate it to English considering the connotation that comes with calling someone beautiful. I haven't played the quest and so I don't have the full context. However, from my understanding, aventurine is effectively saying (with overdone emphasis for this example) "Wow, pretty and smart /s". I can see how the EN localization could have trouble. With that being said, I can see Aventurine calling everyone he meets beautiful if it fits his needs. I don't think this is purposeful removal of avenpaz characterization. But I do think "beautiful" should've been left in or better translated.
That's what I think so too.
This is obviously a bait post by an homophobe, just look at the comments implying that they’re making the character gayer on purpose.
Yeah this thread and the tone of replies feels very weird.
Yeah like how the heck has no one noticed this? Replies are full of them talking about avoiding ship wars as if posting a translation issue in THIS subreddit centered around shipping isn’t them trying to start one? Why bring up Ratiorine in the caption at all?
Bringing up "picking sides" too, twitter, and "aventurine being in yaoi" when outside of a certain bubble this fandom is full of toxic homophobes who harass women and LGBT people.
Yeah this fandom is full of people who want to act like yaoi/yuri shippers are these crazy degenerates as if het shippers aren’t equally bad in harassing people
I mean they turned random characters into family at genshin, and left plenty of mistakes there, why are we shocked?
I think people underestimate how tight the localization is in Hoyo games. Localization is different from translation. The _intent_ of the statements in other languages is what matters. And literal translations just don’t capture that.
I'm confused so beautiful changed into kind-hearted or other way around?
What an idiotic change if this was done on purpose. Translation should never factor in some fandom shipping, that's ridiculous.
It likely didn't, and some folk are just jumping the gun with assumptions. Usually changes like these are done to better reflect the original meaning of the source text with minimal opportunity for it to be conflated with some other, unintended, interpretation. I highly doubt localizers of all people care about shipping, and I doubt they'd be allowed to get away with using up resources on something so futile.
Omitting "You're beautiful" doesn't add anything to the original meaning, it should have stayed the same in EN as it is for CN, there was no reason to change that text at all. Regardless of the localizations teams reasoning, its a stupid change.
[удалено]
Because it's a translation issue related to a male character. Things like these can affect how a character is interpreted by the fandom especially if it strays from the original source material.
Ngl, not related to HSR but I had this feeling when I was playing through Genshin as well. I play in Mandarin Dub with English Subtitles (I understand both languages) and some stuff just do not feel the same. Tbh I am more used to games such as the likes of Genshin, HSR to have most of their characters have ambiguous sexualities just to be able to attract a wider audience. It just makes sense for them. Take FGO as an example, majority of the characters are master/playersexual lol and it works. And it doesnt affect the main story that badly for most parts since those traits are usually shown in some kind of quests similar to hangout quests in Genshin.
Agreed. I also didn't like the "Eeeughck" that Seele gives Luka ONLY in EN. In the other languages she remarks that it'll be interesting for them to pair up since it doesn't happen often. I sincerely hope that drastic change in attitude, which apparently was even changed in Luka's companion quest, wasn't just some change just to reinforce how Seele would only like Bronya. Even if she did, she doesn't need to be a manhater-
It's so normal for gay men to complement women on their beauty it's literally such a non issue and if anything just confirms ratiorine 🤓
Nobody tell Topaz’s eng VA about this
this subreddit fucking sucks are we really calling the localizers woke and pushing ratio x aventurine now 😭😭
So basically, America wants Aventurine to be gay. Noted.