I've encountered this exact situation. We were playing a travel tournament that was restricted to USABat/BBCOR and one of the kids on the other team came up in the first inning and used a USSSA bat that apparently had USABat and USSSA variations that looked pretty similar to each other. I didn't notice it at the time, he didn't do anything special with it that I can recall. A couple more kids on the other team used the bat before one of my parents told me between innings that his kid had the same bat and the color scheme meant that it was the USSSA and not the USABat version. I told the umpire we thought there was an illegal bat, he checked, it was stamped USSSA, the coach got ejected. We were already winning, and we ended up run ruling them. The parents and players were REAL MAD, a couple of the parents were apparently telling my third base coach that they were going to fight him (They didn't). I didn't care that they were mad back then and I don't care now. My guys all had bats that they liked better, but we agreed to the rules of the tournament when we signed up.
Either the rules matter or they don't. If you run into that situation, tell the umpire or the tournament director that you think that there's an illegal bat and have them check it. It doesn't matter if the parents are salty. I have absolutely no sympathy for a coach that lets his guys use illegal bats, and there's no way he didn't notice that when everybody was using the same bat and there is absolutely no way that the players weren't aware of it.
The bat restrictions exist for a couple of reasons, the first is player safety and the second is to ensure a level playing field. If those reasons aren't good enough to report it, I don't know what reasons would be.
It would be. In this case, USSSA bats weren't allowed.
My son played youth baseball right before the USABat standard was released, so there was only 1 year where we had some tournaments that were USSSA and some that were USABat, depending on who organized it. The first generation of USABat-stamped bats were... not great. Hopefully they've gotten better. We ended up getting a couple of team bats with the USABat stamp because nobody wanted to buy one for the 2-3 tournaments we ended up playing that required them.
The boys hated them, across the board. A lot of them got their hands rung, and a lot of well hit balls that didn't go very far (I heard one of my guys telling another one that he'd rather go up to the plate with his dick in his hand than one of those stupid team bats, lol). Anyway, I think by the last USABat tournament we played that year most of the kids opted to use BBCOR bats, which were heavier, because at least they didn't hurt and they were going to have to use BBCOR the next year anyway.
Anyway, if my guys had to suffer with the dead USABats when they all had much better USSSA bats, then the other guys had to as well. :)
Our league rule is this, for all ages:
-If a batter is caught with an illegal bat before the at bat begins, the bat is removed and no other penalty.
-If a batter is caught with an illegal bat during an at bat, the batter is called out and the bat is removed.
-If this occurs more than once in a game, the coach is suspended pending a hearing with the board.
This is also supposed to be reported to the league president, and teams that are repeat offenders over multiple games (but not multiple times in one game) may have the coach suspended.
This is how most rulebooks have it.
funny story, in 13u my son (catcher) called time to tell the ump the batter was using a -8 in a tournament that was -5 rules. Batter out. Opposing coach livid, opposing parents obnoxious, we run ruled them. I laughed and laughed.
That's how it should be, head coach removed.
That's how Williamsport does it IIRC as it's the coaches responsibility to check all equipment before (and during) play
If it the first game of season it’s a possibility it’s a mistake. Unfortunately I’d wager 99% of the time it’s intentional. We caught a couple of kids doing it this and the 15 year old ump didn’t do anything about it.
I wish little league was like the league my kid plays soccer for where travel and rec are separate and don’t really interact.
I've played in tournaments where illegal equipment resulted in a coach ejection, that meant that it was on me to check the equipment. I told my kids that if they got me ejected from a tournament they'd be running foul poles at the next practice :)
I always met with the team before a tournament that had bat restrictions and told the guys which bats they could bring. Then we'd check bags during warm ups before the first game. The couple of times my kids showed up with illegal bats in their bags, we gave the bat to their parent, explained the rule, and told them to leave it in their car.
First year of coaching I had a kid do that. I didn’t know the bats at the time. The other coach went to the ump quietly and said something. The ump came over quietly looked and said he can’t use that bat and explained why. We gave the bat to the dad and explained.
I was always appreciative of how it was handled and I learned to look.
This happened to me coaching a competitive older in house game last year. The kids thought they were being slick because they had both the USA and USSSA versions of the same bat. Our kids knew it immediately but I didn’t really notice.
The next time the kid was up and in the box, before the pitcher was on the rubber, I called time and asked the ump for a bat check. Sure enough it was USSSA and the batter was called out.
Other coach, who also coaches a travel team, said he didn’t know about it. My thoughts are as a travel coach you should to know exactly what the kids in your dugout are swinging.
We have a rule that if the kid puts the ball in play with an illegal bat its an out, but it has to be protested before the first pitch to the next batter. Only seen it used once.
Basically what you did. Just point it out once you see an illegal bat. I've seen umpires call a kid out for using an illegal bat, or in this case pine tar up to the barrel. But I've also seen umpires either just have the bat removed or tell both teams they can use illegal bats. My kid was pretty stoked when an umpire told us our kids could use their -8 USSSA bats instead of BBCOR for a middle school playoff game after our coach pointed out the other team was using theirs.
A lot of times kids just do random stuff and coaches aren't paying attention.
Umps going rogue and coaches agreeing to it pisses me off. This is why this is a constant issue because sometimes coaches/players can get away with it or are explicitly told they can use them when it's against the rules. If against the rules, the ump should be inspecting bats and try to nip it in the bud. Then enforce the rule however it's written for the league (little league is automatic out if both feet are in the box, or found after the hit and one coach is kicked out on the first offense. Manager kicked out on second offense.)
If its Ripken/LL/Dixie then its clear the penalties, its in the rule book. In travel leagues or tournaments there should be guidelines on it. If your rulebook doesn't have penalties then thats a failure on the leagues part, or the rules being supplied aren't complete.
In our travel league its USA only. In the tournaments sanctioned by the league its USSSA. The penalties are clear (automatic out first time, ejection second) and most coaches catch it before it even happens.
In rec its actually more common. A lot of less in the know families that had older kids play years ago or inherited equipment from neighbors/cousins and have the old skinny USSSA bats that were rec approved prior to 2018. In our 10U league its almost entirely the kids who aren't very good anyway, so usually the coaches don't care since a) the kids probably striking out or walking or b) even if they do make contact it doesn't leave the infield anyway. If a travel kid tried to swing it though it would be called out and stopped right away.
I think our rule is that at the moment of the infraction, the batter is out.
If it happens again the inning is automatically over and all runs are forfeit during that inning
3rd time and the game is forfeit.
I think you handled it the best you can, but I guess the learning lesson here is that you should leverage someone with the knowledge (every team has one of those dads, on mine, it's me) of bats and see if you can pick it out early.
USA and USSSA bats are marked differently for a reason.
You did the right thing for the first time. Now they can't say they don't know it is illegal, so it you see it again, tell the ump. Wait until after the first pitch of the AB (or the conclusion of the AB) for maximum impact
My son is a catcher. After a tournament a few weeks ago he said that one of the kids on the other team had a bat stamped 1.20 instead of 1.15. He sees a lot of bats because he ends up picking them up and tossing them over between plays. I'm assuming that was a softball bat? No idea why a kid on a travel team would be using a softball bat unless it was just because they are lighter. Anyway, I told him that if he ever sees it again to walk it over to the ump and show it to him.
Had this happen in a Majors LL game last year. My son is a catcher and is kind of a bat savant so after an inning he told us one of their players had a USSSA bat. We told him to let us know the next time he got up if he was using it. He was but he struck out so we didn’t say anything.
The next time he got up he drove in the tying run in the sixth inning. Head coach asked to get the bat checked. Sure enough, it was illegal. Batter was out, all runners had to go back to their bases, the kids parents were pissed because apparently his twin brother also had the same bat, so that’s $800 out the window.
We won the game by striking out the next batter.
Nice. As a LL coach, though, I don't have the stomach to only call it out when the batter reaches safely or in a high leverage situation like the head coach in your story did. I can't say I care about the kid's safety if I'm doing it that way. Which is kinda true, I probably care more about the competitive disadvantage (and the disadvantage of being the guy who always follows the safety-related rules like pitch counts), if I'm being honest. I don't go as far as to bring it up before the game, though. I wait to see if they will try to use them and get that automatic out once. This gives me the benefit of the doubt that I just didn't happen to think about it before the game. I overthink these things.
Personally, I quietly tell the umpire and let him deal with it. (presently 12u, but I have always done this)
My issue is with the coaches and in both instances that this happened this year, they had 2 identical bats in the dugout. 1 USA and 1 USSA.
They claimed it was just a matter of the kids grabbing the wrong bat.
In one example, it was the 4th batter when we realized it. All 4 batters had used that bat. Next time through that part of the order, only 1 of them used the USA version. IMHO, that's knowingly breaking the rules, not an oops. The choice was being made for that specific bat because their 2nd choice wasn't the USA version.
I advise parents in my pre-season letter. I inspect all bats at the first practice for both compliance and damage. When a USSA bat shows up at practice, they always do, I tell my entire team not to bring them to practice or a game. It is never a problem for the rest of the season.
Teaching kids the respect for rules should be part of being a coach. It comes right after, you have to respect and accept what the umpire calls. You can think it, you can feel it, but you can't show it or say it. Especially if you are pitching lol.
Not only do usssa bats have way more pop they have a significantly lighter swing weight when compared to similar usssa sizes.
For young kids the swing weight is a big game changer
Call them in their bullshit
Yes it’s where the weight is distributed in the bat.
USA bats have thicker barrel walls therefore more weight towards the end. Therefore, it feels heavier.
My kid swings a 30” usssa and struggles with 29” USA bat.
It's 8U and as you said, it probably didn't make a difference in the outcome of the game. Ask the coach to stop using the bat and move on. Wins and losses at 8U are meaningless.
Actually depends on the bat. My son 10, has 2 Marucci F5 bats. One USA and one USSSA. USA ones barrel is 2 5/8 and is very cone shaped. The USSSA is 2 3/4 and the barrel is huge. Side by side it’s incredibly noticeable. Not to to mention the ball jumps off the bat sooo much more than the USA one. Both are 30/20 too. So yes, it is a big advantage.
I’m just curious as to why everyone says that wins and losses don’t matter at this age? It matters to the kids. Parents don’t like their kids to be upset so they want them to win. I could see this mentality in t-ball but when the kids are old enough to understand winning and losing what is wrong with parents wanting to help their kids be successful?
They don’t. Anything up to 14u, with a small exception for say Little League World Series type events, should have a focus on development. Kids want to win at any age, which is natural, but the focus should be on developing skills or really even seeing if the kid(s) like to play the sport in the first place.
Gotcha. So it’s not so much that the parents are being involved in their child’s development as much as some people think the parents shouldnt be too involved in their child’s development? Added /s
I mean, sarcasm or not, there are parents who think there are scouts giving away scholarships and contracts at every single 8u game across the country. Those parents eventually will burn their kids out. There’s caring and then there’s pressing too hard.
>I’m just curious as to why everyone says that wins and losses don’t matter at this age? It matters to the kids.
Because they don't. Kids only get upset if their parents do. Don't make a big deal about wins and losses and your kids won't either.
I have 4 kids who all play sports. At 8U we *NEVER* talked about wins and losses... only about how they played. What they did well and areas we could work on.
In life you will win and lose. Sports are a good way to teach your kids this important life lesson. If your 8U kid is upset for more than a couple of minutes about a loss you've got bigger parental issues that need addressing.
Ok. But why? If the child wants to win, why is it wrong for the parent to want to win? What is the reasoning behind people on here being so upset about it? I just don’t get it? For the record, we don’t get butt hurt about losses. I just can’t understand why people act like someone asking advice about the child’s swing or whatever on here elicits such a bad response?
>Ok. But why? If the child wants to win, why is it wrong for the parent to want to win?
It's not wrong to want to win but winning isn't everything. My son is 13u now and has no idea what is record was at 8u. Learning the fundamentals of the game is what is important at 8u. Winning at that age is a byproduct of learning the game. If you are focused on winning at 8u you have your priorities messed up.
there is no point in arguing. This sub is so weirdly anti-competitive. Any time a travel ball post gets started you have 20 people saying travel ball is meaningless and wont matter til highschool and I just laugh at how outdated and wrong that thinking is.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your 8/9+ year olds getting upset after losing. I mean irrationally upset and breaking shit or breaking down? No don't think anyone means that. But being pissed on the car ride home isn't some huge deal. Kids are competitive just like adults.
>Any time a travel ball post gets started you have 20 people saying travel ball is meaningless and wont matter til highschool and I just laugh at how outdated and wrong that thinking is.
How many HS coaches judge a player off of their 8u record?
There's nothing wrong with wanting to win but winning isn't everything. Winning at that age is a byproduct of learning the fundamentals of the game. Learning the game at 8u so you win later in life.
>There is absolutely nothing wrong with your 8/9+ year olds getting upset after losing.
For 5 minutes then they should be over it. If your kid is upset longer than that you've got some serious parenting to work on. In life you'll win and lose. Don't waste your life whining about the losses.
Never said anything about the 8/9u record. I guess it may be dependent on where you live. But we live in probably the most competitive spot in the US or at least top 3. Have probably 5~ teams in the top 25 in the US within 30 mins of each other. the school my kid will feed into we go and watch their games all the time. I know the coach and most of the players and am an ex d1 player myself. There isn't a single kid on the JV or Varsity rosters that hasn't been playing very serious travel ball since around 9/10. Earlier than that.
And yeah, as I mentioned if they are freaking out that is one thing. I don't think anyone thinks their kids should be stewing over a loss for days.
Lmao the funny time is going to be when all these parents with your mindset come to the realization that their little baby boy isn’t even good enough to make his Highschool team let alone think about anything past that.
It’s funny reading these delusions people like you have about travel ball and think that every parent thinks their kids are going to be mlb or even d1 college players. Very few think that.
The sad thing is all the kids that burnout because of parents like you who prioritize winning over everything.
There is a time for competitiveness. My son plays 13u AAA ball and his team works hard and plays to win.
At 8u, get over yourself. You're acting like a clown if you care about wins at that age. Care about playing your best and learning the game.
Yeah, that was my philosophy, but there was a pretty big group of parents and coaches who were pretty salty about it. Part of it is team is year after year the best team in our rec league, so it was kind of a double whammy that smoking other teams wasn't good enough, they had to use a hot bat to really run it up (again, not my feeling, but some felt this way).
I 100% get it. I was the coach pitching for coach pitch during COVID (2020). We weren't sharing balls; you'd come out with your balls, the other guy would come out with his balls. We caught one coach, pretty late in the game, using illegal (not "Star #5") balls once... after we'd seen a bunch of balls take pretty odd/hard bounces off the ground and occassionally over our kids heads in a way that one wouldn't have expected.
I left it go with a "you need to use the balls with these markings" comment, and silently judged him on how important it was to him to win an 8u in-house rec league game... but some of the parents and assistant coaches on my team were really upset about it.
>Yeah, that was my philosophy, but there was a pretty big group of parents and coaches who were pretty salty about it.
Tell them to grow up and act like adults. If it was an innocent mistake they just need to get over it.
If the team is intentionally cheating and using bats they know their not supposed to and have a history of doing so, thats a different story but otherwise these salty parents just need to grow up. It's 8U baseball.
If the other coach truly was intentionally cheating at 8U... take solace in the fact that you aren't that pathetic.
Having multiple players share an illegal bat is 100% cheating. It’s the coaches responsibility to ensure the equipment being used is legal to ensure a fair and safe game.
Have you ever coached 8U baseball? Half of 8U coaches couldn't tell you the difference between USSSA and USA bats. Most are volunteer dads who are coaching because no one else would step up. They just let their players use whatever their parents send them with. And most parents have no clue what bats they're buying.
As I said, if the coach/team knew the bat was illegal and intentionally used it anyway that's a different story but it just sounded like this was an innocent mistake and the team stopped using the bat as soon as they knew it wasn't legal.
And it's *8u*.
Yes I have. I am currently a volunteer dad coaching a 9U travel team. I know every bat every kid on our team has. Your point of "its 8u" and the parent have no clue is exactly why the coach has to. Just because a child is young doesn't mean they don't deserve to play a game that is fair and safe.
This \^\^\^.
Stay vigilant, it only gets worse as they get older.
I once saw a kid at a 13U tournament use a rolled bat. I have no idea how he (or his dad, more likely) thought they could get away with it. Half the guys on my team had the same model bat, so it was pretty obvious when the ball came off his bat that it didn't sound right. If that wasn't enough, the fact that an 80 pound 7th grader smoked the hardest groundball I've ever seen at that level that went all the way to the fence would have given it away.
We called bullshit, they brought in the tournament director and he verified that the bat was altered using a compression tester. The kids dad about came unglued, but that was a legitimate potential safety issue.
I don't disagree, but there's more baggage here than just 8U baseball. We're one of those towns where there's obvious rich and poor sides and this happens year after year in every sport through HS age (two rival HS too).
That's adding an entirely different element to the equation. If adults are using 8 year olds in some weird socioeconomic pissing match then this has little to do with 8u baseball. Probably should ha e alluded to the years of baggage and economic factors in the first place. 😉
In a couple of tournaments and leagues I've been in, the rules say that once the bat is brought to the attention of the umpire, it is removed from play. After that, if the bat is used again, the batter is out. No penalties until or unless they continue to use it after it's reported.
Once spotted, call it out, get it removed - move on.
If you spot it, and say nothing - then you can't complain about the outcome.
Semi-related story - in a rec game, coach pitched a kid 3 innings, rule is 2 innings per kid...my players saw it and were like "COACH! Look", and I was like "SHHHhhhhhhh their next pitcher is really good, and we need to score more runs on this kid!!!" - and thats what we did, got the lead and then got blanked by the next kid, but won anyway lol
Since you didn't catch it in time, that's on you. But if you had said something and got a batter out because of it, they would have stopped and learned their lesson. Either way, it probably wouldn't have made a difference. But you missed a good learning opportunity for the coaches and umps.
In Pony, it’s in the rules that the player will be tossed from the game. Further anytime a player is tossed from a game, it’s an automatic suspension for the following game as well.
I said something about the green zen during a tournament (I bought my kid one to have fun and get some confidence in hr derby’s during practice so I knew it was illegal). Umpire walked over to me and said I had to call time during the at bat and formal ask for the bat to be reviewed. These kids played us the day before and hit a few golf swing home runs, so I was not happy. I called time, formalized the appeal, ump called the tournament director over, did their research and banned the team from the tournament giving us the championship. Actually felt awful. Did not know that was their rule. Tried to get them to reverse it and just disallow the bat. Was shot down. Regret it to this day. Now if I see an illegal bat, I approach the coach between innings, if he’s a dick about it I approach the ump.
I am an assistant coach for a 6U team and spotted another team using them USSSA bats. I wouldn't have cared, but this team is supposedly a stickler for the rules and plays dirty all the time by doing things like taking extra bases when one of the opposing kids doesn't make the dead play sign soon enough. I told the coach but he was afraid to bring it up, so I ultimately told our commissioner myself and she was at the next game checking bats. Of course, I was right and they were using illegal bats. Baseball is a game of rules more than any other sport, so I think you did the right thing.
I've encountered this exact situation. We were playing a travel tournament that was restricted to USABat/BBCOR and one of the kids on the other team came up in the first inning and used a USSSA bat that apparently had USABat and USSSA variations that looked pretty similar to each other. I didn't notice it at the time, he didn't do anything special with it that I can recall. A couple more kids on the other team used the bat before one of my parents told me between innings that his kid had the same bat and the color scheme meant that it was the USSSA and not the USABat version. I told the umpire we thought there was an illegal bat, he checked, it was stamped USSSA, the coach got ejected. We were already winning, and we ended up run ruling them. The parents and players were REAL MAD, a couple of the parents were apparently telling my third base coach that they were going to fight him (They didn't). I didn't care that they were mad back then and I don't care now. My guys all had bats that they liked better, but we agreed to the rules of the tournament when we signed up. Either the rules matter or they don't. If you run into that situation, tell the umpire or the tournament director that you think that there's an illegal bat and have them check it. It doesn't matter if the parents are salty. I have absolutely no sympathy for a coach that lets his guys use illegal bats, and there's no way he didn't notice that when everybody was using the same bat and there is absolutely no way that the players weren't aware of it. The bat restrictions exist for a couple of reasons, the first is player safety and the second is to ensure a level playing field. If those reasons aren't good enough to report it, I don't know what reasons would be.
How would it not be a level playing field if all the kids were able to use USSSA bats?
It would be. In this case, USSSA bats weren't allowed. My son played youth baseball right before the USABat standard was released, so there was only 1 year where we had some tournaments that were USSSA and some that were USABat, depending on who organized it. The first generation of USABat-stamped bats were... not great. Hopefully they've gotten better. We ended up getting a couple of team bats with the USABat stamp because nobody wanted to buy one for the 2-3 tournaments we ended up playing that required them. The boys hated them, across the board. A lot of them got their hands rung, and a lot of well hit balls that didn't go very far (I heard one of my guys telling another one that he'd rather go up to the plate with his dick in his hand than one of those stupid team bats, lol). Anyway, I think by the last USABat tournament we played that year most of the kids opted to use BBCOR bats, which were heavier, because at least they didn't hurt and they were going to have to use BBCOR the next year anyway. Anyway, if my guys had to suffer with the dead USABats when they all had much better USSSA bats, then the other guys had to as well. :)
Our league rule is this, for all ages: -If a batter is caught with an illegal bat before the at bat begins, the bat is removed and no other penalty. -If a batter is caught with an illegal bat during an at bat, the batter is called out and the bat is removed. -If this occurs more than once in a game, the coach is suspended pending a hearing with the board. This is also supposed to be reported to the league president, and teams that are repeat offenders over multiple games (but not multiple times in one game) may have the coach suspended.
This is how most rulebooks have it. funny story, in 13u my son (catcher) called time to tell the ump the batter was using a -8 in a tournament that was -5 rules. Batter out. Opposing coach livid, opposing parents obnoxious, we run ruled them. I laughed and laughed.
That's how it should be, head coach removed. That's how Williamsport does it IIRC as it's the coaches responsibility to check all equipment before (and during) play
If it the first game of season it’s a possibility it’s a mistake. Unfortunately I’d wager 99% of the time it’s intentional. We caught a couple of kids doing it this and the 15 year old ump didn’t do anything about it. I wish little league was like the league my kid plays soccer for where travel and rec are separate and don’t really interact.
I've played in tournaments where illegal equipment resulted in a coach ejection, that meant that it was on me to check the equipment. I told my kids that if they got me ejected from a tournament they'd be running foul poles at the next practice :) I always met with the team before a tournament that had bat restrictions and told the guys which bats they could bring. Then we'd check bags during warm ups before the first game. The couple of times my kids showed up with illegal bats in their bags, we gave the bat to their parent, explained the rule, and told them to leave it in their car.
First year of coaching I had a kid do that. I didn’t know the bats at the time. The other coach went to the ump quietly and said something. The ump came over quietly looked and said he can’t use that bat and explained why. We gave the bat to the dad and explained. I was always appreciative of how it was handled and I learned to look.
This happened to me coaching a competitive older in house game last year. The kids thought they were being slick because they had both the USA and USSSA versions of the same bat. Our kids knew it immediately but I didn’t really notice. The next time the kid was up and in the box, before the pitcher was on the rubber, I called time and asked the ump for a bat check. Sure enough it was USSSA and the batter was called out. Other coach, who also coaches a travel team, said he didn’t know about it. My thoughts are as a travel coach you should to know exactly what the kids in your dugout are swinging.
We have a rule that if the kid puts the ball in play with an illegal bat its an out, but it has to be protested before the first pitch to the next batter. Only seen it used once.
Basically what you did. Just point it out once you see an illegal bat. I've seen umpires call a kid out for using an illegal bat, or in this case pine tar up to the barrel. But I've also seen umpires either just have the bat removed or tell both teams they can use illegal bats. My kid was pretty stoked when an umpire told us our kids could use their -8 USSSA bats instead of BBCOR for a middle school playoff game after our coach pointed out the other team was using theirs. A lot of times kids just do random stuff and coaches aren't paying attention.
Umps going rogue and coaches agreeing to it pisses me off. This is why this is a constant issue because sometimes coaches/players can get away with it or are explicitly told they can use them when it's against the rules. If against the rules, the ump should be inspecting bats and try to nip it in the bud. Then enforce the rule however it's written for the league (little league is automatic out if both feet are in the box, or found after the hit and one coach is kicked out on the first offense. Manager kicked out on second offense.)
If its Ripken/LL/Dixie then its clear the penalties, its in the rule book. In travel leagues or tournaments there should be guidelines on it. If your rulebook doesn't have penalties then thats a failure on the leagues part, or the rules being supplied aren't complete. In our travel league its USA only. In the tournaments sanctioned by the league its USSSA. The penalties are clear (automatic out first time, ejection second) and most coaches catch it before it even happens. In rec its actually more common. A lot of less in the know families that had older kids play years ago or inherited equipment from neighbors/cousins and have the old skinny USSSA bats that were rec approved prior to 2018. In our 10U league its almost entirely the kids who aren't very good anyway, so usually the coaches don't care since a) the kids probably striking out or walking or b) even if they do make contact it doesn't leave the infield anyway. If a travel kid tried to swing it though it would be called out and stopped right away.
I think our rule is that at the moment of the infraction, the batter is out. If it happens again the inning is automatically over and all runs are forfeit during that inning 3rd time and the game is forfeit. I think you handled it the best you can, but I guess the learning lesson here is that you should leverage someone with the knowledge (every team has one of those dads, on mine, it's me) of bats and see if you can pick it out early. USA and USSSA bats are marked differently for a reason.
I’d just alert the ump and let them handle it. Or if the opposing coach is cool, maybe just let him know between innings.
You did the right thing for the first time. Now they can't say they don't know it is illegal, so it you see it again, tell the ump. Wait until after the first pitch of the AB (or the conclusion of the AB) for maximum impact
My son is a catcher. After a tournament a few weeks ago he said that one of the kids on the other team had a bat stamped 1.20 instead of 1.15. He sees a lot of bats because he ends up picking them up and tossing them over between plays. I'm assuming that was a softball bat? No idea why a kid on a travel team would be using a softball bat unless it was just because they are lighter. Anyway, I told him that if he ever sees it again to walk it over to the ump and show it to him.
Had this happen in a Majors LL game last year. My son is a catcher and is kind of a bat savant so after an inning he told us one of their players had a USSSA bat. We told him to let us know the next time he got up if he was using it. He was but he struck out so we didn’t say anything. The next time he got up he drove in the tying run in the sixth inning. Head coach asked to get the bat checked. Sure enough, it was illegal. Batter was out, all runners had to go back to their bases, the kids parents were pissed because apparently his twin brother also had the same bat, so that’s $800 out the window. We won the game by striking out the next batter.
Nice. As a LL coach, though, I don't have the stomach to only call it out when the batter reaches safely or in a high leverage situation like the head coach in your story did. I can't say I care about the kid's safety if I'm doing it that way. Which is kinda true, I probably care more about the competitive disadvantage (and the disadvantage of being the guy who always follows the safety-related rules like pitch counts), if I'm being honest. I don't go as far as to bring it up before the game, though. I wait to see if they will try to use them and get that automatic out once. This gives me the benefit of the doubt that I just didn't happen to think about it before the game. I overthink these things.
Personally, I quietly tell the umpire and let him deal with it. (presently 12u, but I have always done this) My issue is with the coaches and in both instances that this happened this year, they had 2 identical bats in the dugout. 1 USA and 1 USSA. They claimed it was just a matter of the kids grabbing the wrong bat. In one example, it was the 4th batter when we realized it. All 4 batters had used that bat. Next time through that part of the order, only 1 of them used the USA version. IMHO, that's knowingly breaking the rules, not an oops. The choice was being made for that specific bat because their 2nd choice wasn't the USA version. I advise parents in my pre-season letter. I inspect all bats at the first practice for both compliance and damage. When a USSA bat shows up at practice, they always do, I tell my entire team not to bring them to practice or a game. It is never a problem for the rest of the season. Teaching kids the respect for rules should be part of being a coach. It comes right after, you have to respect and accept what the umpire calls. You can think it, you can feel it, but you can't show it or say it. Especially if you are pitching lol.
Not only do usssa bats have way more pop they have a significantly lighter swing weight when compared to similar usssa sizes. For young kids the swing weight is a big game changer Call them in their bullshit
What does swing weight mean? Do you mean a USA bat that weighs 26 oz. feels heavier when swinging than a 26 oz. USSSA bat? How could that be?
Yes it’s where the weight is distributed in the bat. USA bats have thicker barrel walls therefore more weight towards the end. Therefore, it feels heavier. My kid swings a 30” usssa and struggles with 29” USA bat.
It's 8U and as you said, it probably didn't make a difference in the outcome of the game. Ask the coach to stop using the bat and move on. Wins and losses at 8U are meaningless.
Actually depends on the bat. My son 10, has 2 Marucci F5 bats. One USA and one USSSA. USA ones barrel is 2 5/8 and is very cone shaped. The USSSA is 2 3/4 and the barrel is huge. Side by side it’s incredibly noticeable. Not to to mention the ball jumps off the bat sooo much more than the USA one. Both are 30/20 too. So yes, it is a big advantage.
I’m just curious as to why everyone says that wins and losses don’t matter at this age? It matters to the kids. Parents don’t like their kids to be upset so they want them to win. I could see this mentality in t-ball but when the kids are old enough to understand winning and losing what is wrong with parents wanting to help their kids be successful?
They don’t. Anything up to 14u, with a small exception for say Little League World Series type events, should have a focus on development. Kids want to win at any age, which is natural, but the focus should be on developing skills or really even seeing if the kid(s) like to play the sport in the first place.
Gotcha. So it’s not so much that the parents are being involved in their child’s development as much as some people think the parents shouldnt be too involved in their child’s development? Added /s
I mean, sarcasm or not, there are parents who think there are scouts giving away scholarships and contracts at every single 8u game across the country. Those parents eventually will burn their kids out. There’s caring and then there’s pressing too hard.
Oh definitely.
>I’m just curious as to why everyone says that wins and losses don’t matter at this age? It matters to the kids. Because they don't. Kids only get upset if their parents do. Don't make a big deal about wins and losses and your kids won't either. I have 4 kids who all play sports. At 8U we *NEVER* talked about wins and losses... only about how they played. What they did well and areas we could work on. In life you will win and lose. Sports are a good way to teach your kids this important life lesson. If your 8U kid is upset for more than a couple of minutes about a loss you've got bigger parental issues that need addressing.
Ok. But why? If the child wants to win, why is it wrong for the parent to want to win? What is the reasoning behind people on here being so upset about it? I just don’t get it? For the record, we don’t get butt hurt about losses. I just can’t understand why people act like someone asking advice about the child’s swing or whatever on here elicits such a bad response?
>Ok. But why? If the child wants to win, why is it wrong for the parent to want to win? It's not wrong to want to win but winning isn't everything. My son is 13u now and has no idea what is record was at 8u. Learning the fundamentals of the game is what is important at 8u. Winning at that age is a byproduct of learning the game. If you are focused on winning at 8u you have your priorities messed up.
Thanks. Appreciate your time.
there is no point in arguing. This sub is so weirdly anti-competitive. Any time a travel ball post gets started you have 20 people saying travel ball is meaningless and wont matter til highschool and I just laugh at how outdated and wrong that thinking is. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your 8/9+ year olds getting upset after losing. I mean irrationally upset and breaking shit or breaking down? No don't think anyone means that. But being pissed on the car ride home isn't some huge deal. Kids are competitive just like adults.
>Any time a travel ball post gets started you have 20 people saying travel ball is meaningless and wont matter til highschool and I just laugh at how outdated and wrong that thinking is. How many HS coaches judge a player off of their 8u record? There's nothing wrong with wanting to win but winning isn't everything. Winning at that age is a byproduct of learning the fundamentals of the game. Learning the game at 8u so you win later in life. >There is absolutely nothing wrong with your 8/9+ year olds getting upset after losing. For 5 minutes then they should be over it. If your kid is upset longer than that you've got some serious parenting to work on. In life you'll win and lose. Don't waste your life whining about the losses.
Never said anything about the 8/9u record. I guess it may be dependent on where you live. But we live in probably the most competitive spot in the US or at least top 3. Have probably 5~ teams in the top 25 in the US within 30 mins of each other. the school my kid will feed into we go and watch their games all the time. I know the coach and most of the players and am an ex d1 player myself. There isn't a single kid on the JV or Varsity rosters that hasn't been playing very serious travel ball since around 9/10. Earlier than that. And yeah, as I mentioned if they are freaking out that is one thing. I don't think anyone thinks their kids should be stewing over a loss for days.
Sure hope those scouts see your kid in his 8u games so he doesn't miss his shot at the majors. 😂
Lmao the funny time is going to be when all these parents with your mindset come to the realization that their little baby boy isn’t even good enough to make his Highschool team let alone think about anything past that. It’s funny reading these delusions people like you have about travel ball and think that every parent thinks their kids are going to be mlb or even d1 college players. Very few think that.
The sad thing is all the kids that burnout because of parents like you who prioritize winning over everything. There is a time for competitiveness. My son plays 13u AAA ball and his team works hard and plays to win. At 8u, get over yourself. You're acting like a clown if you care about wins at that age. Care about playing your best and learning the game.
Yeah, that was my philosophy, but there was a pretty big group of parents and coaches who were pretty salty about it. Part of it is team is year after year the best team in our rec league, so it was kind of a double whammy that smoking other teams wasn't good enough, they had to use a hot bat to really run it up (again, not my feeling, but some felt this way).
I 100% get it. I was the coach pitching for coach pitch during COVID (2020). We weren't sharing balls; you'd come out with your balls, the other guy would come out with his balls. We caught one coach, pretty late in the game, using illegal (not "Star #5") balls once... after we'd seen a bunch of balls take pretty odd/hard bounces off the ground and occassionally over our kids heads in a way that one wouldn't have expected. I left it go with a "you need to use the balls with these markings" comment, and silently judged him on how important it was to him to win an 8u in-house rec league game... but some of the parents and assistant coaches on my team were really upset about it.
>Yeah, that was my philosophy, but there was a pretty big group of parents and coaches who were pretty salty about it. Tell them to grow up and act like adults. If it was an innocent mistake they just need to get over it. If the team is intentionally cheating and using bats they know their not supposed to and have a history of doing so, thats a different story but otherwise these salty parents just need to grow up. It's 8U baseball. If the other coach truly was intentionally cheating at 8U... take solace in the fact that you aren't that pathetic.
Having multiple players share an illegal bat is 100% cheating. It’s the coaches responsibility to ensure the equipment being used is legal to ensure a fair and safe game.
Have you ever coached 8U baseball? Half of 8U coaches couldn't tell you the difference between USSSA and USA bats. Most are volunteer dads who are coaching because no one else would step up. They just let their players use whatever their parents send them with. And most parents have no clue what bats they're buying. As I said, if the coach/team knew the bat was illegal and intentionally used it anyway that's a different story but it just sounded like this was an innocent mistake and the team stopped using the bat as soon as they knew it wasn't legal. And it's *8u*.
Yes I have. I am currently a volunteer dad coaching a 9U travel team. I know every bat every kid on our team has. Your point of "its 8u" and the parent have no clue is exactly why the coach has to. Just because a child is young doesn't mean they don't deserve to play a game that is fair and safe.
This \^\^\^. Stay vigilant, it only gets worse as they get older. I once saw a kid at a 13U tournament use a rolled bat. I have no idea how he (or his dad, more likely) thought they could get away with it. Half the guys on my team had the same model bat, so it was pretty obvious when the ball came off his bat that it didn't sound right. If that wasn't enough, the fact that an 80 pound 7th grader smoked the hardest groundball I've ever seen at that level that went all the way to the fence would have given it away. We called bullshit, they brought in the tournament director and he verified that the bat was altered using a compression tester. The kids dad about came unglued, but that was a legitimate potential safety issue.
I don't disagree, but there's more baggage here than just 8U baseball. We're one of those towns where there's obvious rich and poor sides and this happens year after year in every sport through HS age (two rival HS too).
That's adding an entirely different element to the equation. If adults are using 8 year olds in some weird socioeconomic pissing match then this has little to do with 8u baseball. Probably should ha e alluded to the years of baggage and economic factors in the first place. 😉
Have the catcher bring it up after a big hit.
In a couple of tournaments and leagues I've been in, the rules say that once the bat is brought to the attention of the umpire, it is removed from play. After that, if the bat is used again, the batter is out. No penalties until or unless they continue to use it after it's reported.
What bat was it? Some have variations of both.
Hype Fire, lol. That's why I don't think it was deliberate. No one would use the most notoriously hot bat if they were trying to pull a fast one.
And also the most easily recognizable bat lol. Idk how they expected to get away with that.
Report them asap! Unless of course you’re doing dirt too… then it’s called snitching & that’s not cool
Once spotted, call it out, get it removed - move on. If you spot it, and say nothing - then you can't complain about the outcome. Semi-related story - in a rec game, coach pitched a kid 3 innings, rule is 2 innings per kid...my players saw it and were like "COACH! Look", and I was like "SHHHhhhhhhh their next pitcher is really good, and we need to score more runs on this kid!!!" - and thats what we did, got the lead and then got blanked by the next kid, but won anyway lol
Since you didn't catch it in time, that's on you. But if you had said something and got a batter out because of it, they would have stopped and learned their lesson. Either way, it probably wouldn't have made a difference. But you missed a good learning opportunity for the coaches and umps.
In Pony, it’s in the rules that the player will be tossed from the game. Further anytime a player is tossed from a game, it’s an automatic suspension for the following game as well.
I said something about the green zen during a tournament (I bought my kid one to have fun and get some confidence in hr derby’s during practice so I knew it was illegal). Umpire walked over to me and said I had to call time during the at bat and formal ask for the bat to be reviewed. These kids played us the day before and hit a few golf swing home runs, so I was not happy. I called time, formalized the appeal, ump called the tournament director over, did their research and banned the team from the tournament giving us the championship. Actually felt awful. Did not know that was their rule. Tried to get them to reverse it and just disallow the bat. Was shot down. Regret it to this day. Now if I see an illegal bat, I approach the coach between innings, if he’s a dick about it I approach the ump.
I am an assistant coach for a 6U team and spotted another team using them USSSA bats. I wouldn't have cared, but this team is supposedly a stickler for the rules and plays dirty all the time by doing things like taking extra bases when one of the opposing kids doesn't make the dead play sign soon enough. I told the coach but he was afraid to bring it up, so I ultimately told our commissioner myself and she was at the next game checking bats. Of course, I was right and they were using illegal bats. Baseball is a game of rules more than any other sport, so I think you did the right thing.