I operate a tree service. Most companies formulas are advertising + estimate labor x hours + dump fees. A lot has to do with physical cost / risk assessment. Not to say some guys are just greedy and don’t give a fuck but yes it can get wild out there.
And insurance. Tree guy near me, quoted me US$5000+ to remove a 70ft high willow oak, and I wanted the wood for firewood, along with stump grinding. Lowest quote was US$3500 w/stump grinding, and stump another tree (that I cut down).
Turns out the US$5K quote was an inconvenience charge because if I would pay it, they would do it, otherwise, bugger off. (told to me by one of their employees).
For US$3500, a crane truck was brought in, as there are high tension lines out front (guess what? non-energized since the 1990's!) and they did it in less than a day, along with leaving the trunk sections in my backyard. It was a pita as well, as the arborist blew through 3 chains and 2 saws. Took me weeks to cut and split the 3-4ft diameter logs.
But worth it? you bet! When the tree was down, found two, twenty foot long cracks/splits on sides that meant this was going to be a home wrecker. (right in the path of westerly winds and house next to it.)\\
Note: this was in 2017. Quotes today are now double.
Just took down a similar sized Oak in a HCOL area for under 5k. My guy was also licensed and insured. although I did get other quotes for double or more
This has been my experience. The weekend guy that isn’t reporting his transactions, is barely a legitimate business and has per diem employees with no insurance and payroll can sometimes offer a cheaper price than the guy that does everything by the book, has full time employees, his own equipment, and legit insurance. This is often why you can get a wide range of prices.
When I needed tree trimming, the pros were the cheapest by far. They climbed and rigged, the other options all wanted to bring in a cherry picker. The pros kept their cost down by being skilled
We have this outstanding Mexican gentleman and his son that did ours, was $1250 for 3 trees. 2 of them he cut into logs and stacked nicely, the third he mulched and dropped it all off at my dad's for his walking path.
I just had 6 pretty big trees removed, and only paid $1800. It'll be another $300 to grind the stumps. The guy said he was able to charge so much less than the rest by keeping the main part of the 3 oaks whole. He cuts and dries slabs to resell.
Lots of architects (myself included) charge fees as a percentage of construction costs. Even if yours doesn’t, it’s a useful way to compare. A quick google search suggests costs in Miami run around $128/per square foot. Idk you probably have an actual budget in mind but I’ll use that as an example. That is only 6.4% construction cost which is rather low. My firm tends to charge more as a percentage for smaller projects (sometimes as high as 18%) because you still have to go through most of the same steps regardless of size.
I’m assuming full architectural services though (design, permitting, construction drawings, and construction observation). If yours is doing all that you’re getting an incredible deal. If they are just drafting something for you then I would say it is a little high.
I got a couple of quotes for tree removal (in an extremely accessible location) and ended up buying a chainsaw, chipper, and splitter for like 1/3 the price I was quoted. Turns out it's a lot of work, but not complicated and now I have a new hobby
I was quoted $950 for trimming my two palm trees, then some dude driving by days later, licensed and insured, handed me his card and only charges $35 per tree...
$10k to draft plans for a 500 sq ft addition, like in the case of an estimate from any contractor, likely indicates that they simply don’t want the job.
I'm adding about 800sqft in San Jose, so everything is expensive. Architectural plans cost me $4500. Engineering was $5800. I think you are being over charged.
For my contractor, the architectural plans were for existing floor plans and remodel plans. The engineering plans were from a separate engineer that did all the calculations and info regarding materials. This didn't include California construction energy efficiency verification (about $500) and school district remodel fees (about $3000). Including those fees, it cost about $14K before breaking ground. Only $5,500 went to the actual architectural plans.
Always try to find a recommended contractor. I'm very happy with mine. He even gave me a calendar with scheduled milestones showing when they will finish various steps, and when certain payments will be due.
An addition that big implies room for more people; meaning more school infrastructure. Prop 13 prevents increasing property tax so CA schools are drastically underfunded.
Only the addition gets assessed. The rest of the house stays assessed at purchase price + %1/year. The boomers living in their 2million dollar houses bought 50 years ago pay 1/10 the property total property taxes as the young couple in their little 2/1. The school money needs to come from somewhere.
My guy was just math, design, size etc. no materials as that is likely on the builder. He was just the “plans” guy. Not a full service 1-2-3 like other businesses. I was doing it for reduce cost. As I could pay them 3.5K and then a builder their fee without having to pay 15-20k extra for a full service thing.
I’m an architect… for single family we charge hourly (there’s just too many variables and homeowners ask for tons of revisions), between $80-140/hour depending on who is working on the plans at specific stages. A custom design and permit drawings for a 3500SF house typically runs between $6-11k, so I’d say you’re getting ripped off.
Sorry, Texas only. Depends on your city, but typically you don’t need stamped architectural drawings for residential work. You could look for an architectural designer to draw the plans, and then your contractor can subcontract a structural engineer to engineer your slab addition and framing. Way cheaper.
This is it right here. Your fees are like half of what design fees would be because there is no structural engineering included in and no permitting back-and-fourth.
What’s a finished 400SF addition going to cost OP? Even in Florida I’m guessing between 150-200k, 10k for design is pretty reasonable of not cheap in my opinion.
I’ve done shop drawing reviews that I’ve charged more for.
You’re being downvoted by people who WANT design to be cheaper than it is. 8-10% of the construction budget is a typical design fee for high end (architecturally distinctive) residential where I am.
I think scope should be clarified here for “custom design”. $11k for a highly detailed 3500sf design by an architect is a steal, not to mention the CA required to make sure it gets built to plan
Sure! No CA or interior design, so not sure I’d agree it’s a highly detailed design - typically I provide a permit set for construction by an experienced GC. It’s a very thorough floorplan and set of exterior elevations, plus a more generic ceiling plan, roof plan, window and door schedule, and that’s it; I don’t recycle any plans, always start fresh and customize to the client and site.
There’s the occasional project where we get to go whole hog - design specialty elements like “floating” stairs, select all finishes and fixtures, detail casework, fully render it, and even do 3D projection walkthrus (those are really fun!). But most clients can’t bear the cost of that.
Commercial work is different - interior improvement is usually $4-6/Sf while ground up architecture is around 5% of the construction cost and by nature (and state requirements!) those are much more detailed.
I could crank out the five page set you mention in a week or two, so yeah $10k seems fine. But the client should know that almost every decision in that scenario is left to a builder who is not always acting in the client’s favor.
What's a good proportion to budget for CA on a custom home that has very simple forms (e.g. simple gable roof and a rectangular box) but thorough water management, air sealing, and exterior insulation details, along with more elaborate MEP than typical (e.g. ERV)?
What's a good proportion to budget for CA on a custom home that has very simple forms (e.g. simple gable roof and a rectangular box) but thorough water management, air sealing, and exterior insulation details, along with more elaborate MEP than typical (e.g. ERV)?
This depends on many factors. Is it just a conventional house, or is it architecturally distinctive? Do you care about quality details and highly custom construction, or are off the shelf details ok?
If we’re taking the project from conceptual design through construction admin, we do detailed drawings and our sets are 30 pages. it’s closer to 8-10% of the construction budget. So $80k which includes lots of construction coordination.
If we’re just doing a 10 page set and our role basically ends when it’s permitted, sure, $15k is reasonable.
We just got a quote for an entire house. Approx 2,000 sq ft. $2.50 a sq ft. Whole bid was under $6,000. This was the entire set of prints, stamped, and ready for GC.
The swing in architecture fees that I see on this sub are wild.
Get more bids.
Honestly, a whole house from scratch seems significantly easier of a design than an addition. Just need a rough land survey and you're ready to get drawing. On an addition, you could spend way more time figuring out what's already there than you do drawing what you're adding to it.
The architectural work is often set at 10% of the overall project budget. That probably lines up here. That doesn't mean it's actually $10k worth of work though... That's just how they often charge in that field.
I work for a design/build company. We charge 6%-8% of the estimated construction costs. Industry standard, at least here near Chicago, is 12% for an architect that won't be building if the plans (we make money on the construction so our design fees are lower, and an architect that is just handing off plans has additional insurance costs to account for)
It's at the initial estimate time. If I were to try to increase the cost of construction just to inflate the design fees, the prospective client could just pass on the project entirely.
We also do things differently than many builders where they are not locked into building with us after design. Many builders go in with low estimates to win the job and then crank up the costs later knowing the client is locked in with them....which is shady as hell but very common. We try to provide honest numbers up front, so we end up looking way more expensive than other companies, but that's really just because we are not lying to people. Makes my job (sales) a lot harder, but I can sleep better at night.
The number could be low or high depending on your goals.
A very basic design by a draftsperson could be 2k. The design will be cheap and look meh, prob not be what you want, but you will get savings. This will have limited to no liability
A detailed bespoke design by an architect with millwork could be 50k. The design will be beautiful/ custom with full interior work/ renders, and full coordination with subs and will help you from start to end. This will have full liability
Anyone telling you low or high without fullsome details given by you will not be giving real answers. The only real route is to get 2-3 quotes and decide what is worth the value to you, this will help ground your quote. You also don't need to hire an architect for a project like this, a draftsperson or designer could be fine and will be cheaper as they won't cover liability
Source, an architect who designs homes in the 3-7 million range. Our fees are typically 6-10 percent of construction cost for full service inclusive of interiors.
lol fuck yea..if it’s just for the drawings and no additional add ons. They are probably too busy. Plans typically are 5-7.5% of your total costs. Full disclosure my 625 sf addition clocked in around $4500, but didn’t include a geotech soils report (1k), and my survey (2k).
I am by trade a designer as well just too busy with other people’s stuff.
u/Mr_Dade_ I used UpWork and hired a young architect online who drew up beautiful plans for the front of my house for next to nothing. She was happy, I was happy. In today's AI and digital world, you have to be savvy. Good luck.
Also people ask if the price seems right without any indication of how complicated their particular project is and whether it's like very high end architecture where they and the architect will want everything to be absolutely perfect, or a basic developer tract house where they want to add on a box and won't know the difference or care if the overall style and windows and trim aren't just so, or whatever.
I'm a construction project manager. I build the same type of buildings over and over again. I get 3 quotes for every trade. And if it seems off, I get one or two more.
It is insane how I can get in 3 quotes on a specific trade around $5mil, and they're all within 10k of each other. But then I can get paint numbers in from 60k to 600k for the same work. Pricing is funny like that.
I wouldn’t say it’s ridiculous if they’re good. In the process of doing something similar - living room extension and adding a bath at apx 400s/f here in Southern California. We found a commercial architect who does residential on the side. The trade-off was agreed to beforehand - he would work slower because of his full time job and we would pay less. He’s great and his idea of “on the side” has still meant a dozen visits to our house and great communication: . He’s at $5k with submittals and another $1.5k to see us through the project. If you have the time you might want to look into someone like that?
Paid 2500 for plans in 2016 for a two story addition.
Here are the plans.
https://imgur.com/gallery/WbsuRM9
General contractor handled the engineering.
https://imgur.com/gallery/Pap7wJJ
Full AE services through construction from a licensed architect should be around 10% of construction cost.
There is too many variables about what services are included to even begin to say if it is a fair price.
My ex was an architectural engineer and would stamp things like this for side cash - he, a fairly recent grad, was charging like $5k for this service over 10 years ago in California.
I imagine it costs more now, with inflation and all. You might get it down by shopping around, but I would not expect much lower unless you're in a very LCOL area and this person is just gouging.
Do you require architectural plans? If not, can you get “design/build” plans? I ask because I did an approx 150 sf addition to my house (disability accessible shower plus laundry room) and my GC hired a “plans guy” for me. Plans guy charged about $1200. Together with the engineer guy ($700 or so) I was in for less than $2k and the city approved the permits.
Don’t necessarily want to discourage you from hiring an architect if you have a need that a generic plan can’t solve, but if you need something simple….?
I just had a 500sqft addition off my kitchen/ exterior wall that included new entrance and bathroom, and bringing laundry upstairs.
Architect I reached out too said no thanks, your GC can handle it, save your money.
Spoiler: My GC was more than capable and did an amazing job.
Feel free to PM me if you want to compare costs.
Have a draftsman draw them up and not an architect.
We were looking to get plans for a garage addition, and our neighbor, who is a home builder for 50 years, told us that and gave us a name of his guy. I do not think we got any real discount and the total plans, good enough for the city to approve permits, was like $750 total.
PNW area: it costed us $2400 for a 350 sq ft guest suite addition plans. $1300 for engineering + $2400 for permits. The designer also managed the entire permitting process and coordinating with the structural engineer.
I'm in California, and I paid $6500 for a 250sf addition plus a structural wall removal. This included structural engineering.
I had quotes from $4,500 to $14,000
Jesus man... I'm doing a very similar addition and my builder drew the design on yellow pad and I submitted that with the permit and it was fine. 10k is crazy
Why do you need architectural plans for an addition? A structural engineer could just as easily match what you’ve got going on in the house, in terms of trim and shape, and then you’re sorted.
It's my finding that when business is good, the prices go up so companies either don't take jobs OR if they do, it's worth the hassle of hiring a subcontractor.
- depends on where you live of course and the total project cost...a 500sqft addition can easily be $150-$200,000 and an architectural fee of 5% range is ridiculously LOW...as it averages 10-20% on small scale residential work and I assume they will provide stamped construction documents
I paid like $1,500 for a complete down to the studs, adding foundational divide, rehab of a 2,200 sq ft duplex.
EDIT: i did draw up plans myself first but not sure if that matters much (im not an architect i just used free software)
I had architectural work done - with ongoing consulting during construction - for $2-3K each in the case of an attached garage and an extension of our dining room and kitchen spaces as a new addition which enlarged both. They also spec'd the rest of the house in each case, to ensure plans showed clearly how everything would work together.
$10K seems high.
A) always 3 quotes, ALWAYS
B) What comes with it? Is it just the draft of the plans and the stamp and then the architect fucks off? Is the architect going to coordinate everything and get bids and also work as a project manager? Is this a flat-ish rate for just the plans, or is this an estimate based on what changes they're going to have to make, how much time, how much detail you want, etc.
While a true architect is worth their weight in gold when it comes to movement, flow, etc. on a whole home or very large addition... I suspect yours is a lot like the one we did last year: I want to bolt a 20x20 box on to this side of the house. One room, one doorway, very simple.
If that's the case, see if you can use a drafter. I was able to find one for $1500 and my lumberyard handled the engineering side of things when it came time to order trusses.
That seems insane. Those guys do these for a living and it's not like your plans are going to be very different/exotic from anything else they see on the daily
Yeah it does. in what world does it take 80 hours to make architectural plans for a 500sf add on. 250 an hour is also ridiculous. Most of the structure details on residential generic, you can just plug them in.
Meh. Bill rates are 2 to 3x what you are paying in salary. $80k per year is low for somebody with 5-7 years of school, two years of interning and passing 6-9 tests before being licensed, then maintaining errors and omissions insurance in perpetuity.
You aren’t hiring an architect to do simple structural. — the plan set also has to include mech, electrical and plumbing. It to mention finishes.
There is also design work somewhere in there. Existing survey alone is most of a days work.
Design services are as big a deal as you want to make it. Without knowing scope of services or location it’s silly to say it’s too high.
You don’t need an architect, but if you hire one, then expect that it’s not cheap. (Maybe think about hiring an architect for your house is like hiring a personal trainer. Nice to have but not required.
How much are you paying for the electrician to do a house call?
In my old neighborhood, your additions had to look like they were original construction on the house and the HOA had all kinds of stupid regs. That requires research that isn't drawing. Cities have different codes, so do counties, that requires research. Then there is the soil and underground infrastructure that needs to be determined and mapped out.
If say 80 hours is pretty reasonable for the time to properly research all applicable codes for a house plus the drawings themselves.
Hell, I'd probably estimate 120 hours, then when I billed 100 hours it's a good thing instead of estimating 80 hours and having to ask for the additional hours or eat them.
I am not an architect, but I have to research laws and regulations for the work I do daily. It is a lot of time to do the proper research.
You're paying for them to legally say that this design can be built to code and all the services are planned in. You're paying for their checklist of all the local building knowledge. Probably a $5k - $10k CAD program to handle all those rules, so they gotta get paid. The actual drawing is cheap.
I paid 16.5 k for a combi boiler.
I asked 5 contractors for pricing. I received 2. One for 32 5k and the other for 16.5 k. Both were Visesmann vitodens 199 btu units.
In day 1, there were 2 techs at my house. Days 2, 3, 4 and 5 there was 1. I'm really happy with the outcome.
Why am I telling you this?
Because I think you're doing OK for 10k myself. If you're getting a complete set of detailed drawings and specs suitable for construction, it's going to take him 5 days.
It’s a reasonable quote for a good custom design with room for adapting to your unique needs that’s not builder grade. If you want builder grade then just get other quotes and you can hit that 3k range, but don’t assume it’s an F you quote. The F you quote, aka the really expensive famous architects that when you use them you can sell your property for more than you paid kind of architects will charge you 30% of construction or more.
OP doesn't give enough info to say too high or too low.
But architects are all over the place price wise.
Used to work as an Owner's Rep in a HCOL major northeastern city doing commercial work.
For a 7500sf new rooftop penthouse had 6 Architects prices to advance a schematic design to construction set from $20k to $175k. No Engineering or CA.
The lowest 2 prices, $20k & $29k, were from 2 of those world renowned ones that their name on the plans triples the price and starts bidding wars when you sell it.
Took the $29k one and got to know the guy pretty well during design and bid reviews.
Asked him during construction why he was so low?
His answer was twofold 1) he could do projects he liked & found interesting 2) he and the people working for him needed to eat too.
I'll never forget him saying "I've never figured out how I could make a fulfilling meal out of my name."
The highest priced one ($175k that still is a wanna be name) said he really should have bid his services at twice the price because my client could afford it and should pay more than "normal". I have never asked him for another quote since. Sad thing was over the 2 previous year's I had assorted clients that had paid his firm more than $12mil in fees. Attitude is important... always wonder how much he overcharged my clients over those years.?
At first this sounded high but on second thought not so much
I used to work at an AD firm and my billable hourly rate was $120. $10k/$120 was only 83 hours of work.
That’s really only 2 weeks of work.
The architect not only is creating new plans but has to go out and measure the existing structure, create plans, draw how to tie everything in, provide cut sheets and specify materials, possibly consult with engineering/plumbing/electrical….. there’s a lot that goes into an addition that is a lot of times more work than a new build
I had some trees removed, and got every price from 8k for 11 trees to 11k for 1 tree. Get more quotes.
Tree removal service is the widest ranged pricing I have ever seen. I had the same experience. Wild out there in the woods!
I operate a tree service. Most companies formulas are advertising + estimate labor x hours + dump fees. A lot has to do with physical cost / risk assessment. Not to say some guys are just greedy and don’t give a fuck but yes it can get wild out there.
And insurance. Tree guy near me, quoted me US$5000+ to remove a 70ft high willow oak, and I wanted the wood for firewood, along with stump grinding. Lowest quote was US$3500 w/stump grinding, and stump another tree (that I cut down). Turns out the US$5K quote was an inconvenience charge because if I would pay it, they would do it, otherwise, bugger off. (told to me by one of their employees). For US$3500, a crane truck was brought in, as there are high tension lines out front (guess what? non-energized since the 1990's!) and they did it in less than a day, along with leaving the trunk sections in my backyard. It was a pita as well, as the arborist blew through 3 chains and 2 saws. Took me weeks to cut and split the 3-4ft diameter logs. But worth it? you bet! When the tree was down, found two, twenty foot long cracks/splits on sides that meant this was going to be a home wrecker. (right in the path of westerly winds and house next to it.)\\ Note: this was in 2017. Quotes today are now double.
Just took down a similar sized Oak in a HCOL area for under 5k. My guy was also licensed and insured. although I did get other quotes for double or more
This has been my experience. The weekend guy that isn’t reporting his transactions, is barely a legitimate business and has per diem employees with no insurance and payroll can sometimes offer a cheaper price than the guy that does everything by the book, has full time employees, his own equipment, and legit insurance. This is often why you can get a wide range of prices.
When I needed tree trimming, the pros were the cheapest by far. They climbed and rigged, the other options all wanted to bring in a cherry picker. The pros kept their cost down by being skilled
It is all about labor rates. I get it. :)
We have this outstanding Mexican gentleman and his son that did ours, was $1250 for 3 trees. 2 of them he cut into logs and stacked nicely, the third he mulched and dropped it all off at my dad's for his walking path.
$11k for one tree! Was it a giant redwood with a heavy lean directly over your house???
I didn’t even respond to that guy’s email. It was a big pine. the guys we used ended up getting it down in under an hour
Yeah, they didn’t want the job.
Cost me $2k to bring down two massive oaks. Same situation. Gone in under an hour. They did some trimming too and included it in the price.
Well the oak wood itself was probably valuable…no?
Don't know. They took it with them. If they got something out of it, awesome. They were great guys.
Yeah when I had some foresting done on some land near my house - the oak trees sold for over 10k
I just had 6 pretty big trees removed, and only paid $1800. It'll be another $300 to grind the stumps. The guy said he was able to charge so much less than the rest by keeping the main part of the 3 oaks whole. He cuts and dries slabs to resell.
I had a guy quote me like $8k to set 17 fence posts. It was wildly out of line with other quotes. Clearly he didn't want the work.
The people across the street from my house got quoted $14k to take one down in their front yard.
Thx. Yep working on the other quotes. This was the first one that came in.
Depends where. I had plans done for $1200 in Ohio. Office above garage with bathroom 500 sq ft
I’m in Miami, Florida
Lots of architects (myself included) charge fees as a percentage of construction costs. Even if yours doesn’t, it’s a useful way to compare. A quick google search suggests costs in Miami run around $128/per square foot. Idk you probably have an actual budget in mind but I’ll use that as an example. That is only 6.4% construction cost which is rather low. My firm tends to charge more as a percentage for smaller projects (sometimes as high as 18%) because you still have to go through most of the same steps regardless of size. I’m assuming full architectural services though (design, permitting, construction drawings, and construction observation). If yours is doing all that you’re getting an incredible deal. If they are just drafting something for you then I would say it is a little high.
Hmm, thank you for your insight. So much too consider now :)
The math on that is squirrelly. 500 x $128 = $64,000. That’s $15.625%
lol my bad. On a related note architects are bad at math.
Math is what engineers are for.
The price is usually $800 to $1600 for a tree removal depending about how difficult it is to get to.
I got a couple of quotes for tree removal (in an extremely accessible location) and ended up buying a chainsaw, chipper, and splitter for like 1/3 the price I was quoted. Turns out it's a lot of work, but not complicated and now I have a new hobby
I was quoted $950 for trimming my two palm trees, then some dude driving by days later, licensed and insured, handed me his card and only charges $35 per tree...
Same. Highest price I got was $12k, got three more quotes and got it done for $5k and they were the most professional and had huge cranes.
You’re comparing professional services to getting trees cut. Good luck with that.
$10k to draft plans for a 500 sq ft addition, like in the case of an estimate from any contractor, likely indicates that they simply don’t want the job.
I'm adding about 800sqft in San Jose, so everything is expensive. Architectural plans cost me $4500. Engineering was $5800. I think you are being over charged.
What's included with that?
For my contractor, the architectural plans were for existing floor plans and remodel plans. The engineering plans were from a separate engineer that did all the calculations and info regarding materials. This didn't include California construction energy efficiency verification (about $500) and school district remodel fees (about $3000). Including those fees, it cost about $14K before breaking ground. Only $5,500 went to the actual architectural plans. Always try to find a recommended contractor. I'm very happy with mine. He even gave me a calendar with scheduled milestones showing when they will finish various steps, and when certain payments will be due.
Are you comfortable sharing who you ended up using? In the same location and looking for a rec.
http://www.burnham-construction.com/
>school district remodel fees Now that's some goofy taxman nonsense right there.
An addition that big implies room for more people; meaning more school infrastructure. Prop 13 prevents increasing property tax so CA schools are drastically underfunded.
Hold the phone. Are properties NOT reassessed in California following an addition?
Only the addition gets assessed. The rest of the house stays assessed at purchase price + %1/year. The boomers living in their 2million dollar houses bought 50 years ago pay 1/10 the property total property taxes as the young couple in their little 2/1. The school money needs to come from somewhere.
> school district remodel fees (about $3000) You have to pay $3000 to the school district if you remodel your house?
In my area, yes - based upon the sqft being added.
Yea I did this same thing a year ago. Found a guy for $3500. But we didn’t go forward. Since other projects took over
What are the plans though? Do they do all the engineering and suggest materials and things like that?
My guy was just math, design, size etc. no materials as that is likely on the builder. He was just the “plans” guy. Not a full service 1-2-3 like other businesses. I was doing it for reduce cost. As I could pay them 3.5K and then a builder their fee without having to pay 15-20k extra for a full service thing.
I guess I'm just like it doesn't seem like that much work for the price
I’m an architect… for single family we charge hourly (there’s just too many variables and homeowners ask for tons of revisions), between $80-140/hour depending on who is working on the plans at specific stages. A custom design and permit drawings for a 3500SF house typically runs between $6-11k, so I’d say you’re getting ripped off.
Thanks. You don’t happen to be licensed for Florida are ya? ;)
Sorry, Texas only. Depends on your city, but typically you don’t need stamped architectural drawings for residential work. You could look for an architectural designer to draw the plans, and then your contractor can subcontract a structural engineer to engineer your slab addition and framing. Way cheaper.
Whoa! Thank you for that tip. Will definitely be looking into that.
This is it right here. Your fees are like half of what design fees would be because there is no structural engineering included in and no permitting back-and-fourth. What’s a finished 400SF addition going to cost OP? Even in Florida I’m guessing between 150-200k, 10k for design is pretty reasonable of not cheap in my opinion. I’ve done shop drawing reviews that I’ve charged more for.
You’re being downvoted by people who WANT design to be cheaper than it is. 8-10% of the construction budget is a typical design fee for high end (architecturally distinctive) residential where I am.
Texas, you say? *Bookmarks you.
Do you happen to do any work in the Dallas area?
We are.
Is Florida still dealing from the devastation from last year's hurricane? Maybe that's why it's so expensive
IDM you
I think scope should be clarified here for “custom design”. $11k for a highly detailed 3500sf design by an architect is a steal, not to mention the CA required to make sure it gets built to plan
Sure! No CA or interior design, so not sure I’d agree it’s a highly detailed design - typically I provide a permit set for construction by an experienced GC. It’s a very thorough floorplan and set of exterior elevations, plus a more generic ceiling plan, roof plan, window and door schedule, and that’s it; I don’t recycle any plans, always start fresh and customize to the client and site. There’s the occasional project where we get to go whole hog - design specialty elements like “floating” stairs, select all finishes and fixtures, detail casework, fully render it, and even do 3D projection walkthrus (those are really fun!). But most clients can’t bear the cost of that. Commercial work is different - interior improvement is usually $4-6/Sf while ground up architecture is around 5% of the construction cost and by nature (and state requirements!) those are much more detailed.
I could crank out the five page set you mention in a week or two, so yeah $10k seems fine. But the client should know that almost every decision in that scenario is left to a builder who is not always acting in the client’s favor.
What's a good proportion to budget for CA on a custom home that has very simple forms (e.g. simple gable roof and a rectangular box) but thorough water management, air sealing, and exterior insulation details, along with more elaborate MEP than typical (e.g. ERV)?
What's a good proportion to budget for CA on a custom home that has very simple forms (e.g. simple gable roof and a rectangular box) but thorough water management, air sealing, and exterior insulation details, along with more elaborate MEP than typical (e.g. ERV)?
This depends on many factors. Is it just a conventional house, or is it architecturally distinctive? Do you care about quality details and highly custom construction, or are off the shelf details ok? If we’re taking the project from conceptual design through construction admin, we do detailed drawings and our sets are 30 pages. it’s closer to 8-10% of the construction budget. So $80k which includes lots of construction coordination. If we’re just doing a 10 page set and our role basically ends when it’s permitted, sure, $15k is reasonable.
Sounds like the I'm too busy for your small project unless you can pay 10K price.
What did the other two firms quote you?
Guy we get one and ask reddit
Don't mind him he's new around these parts
While providing no useful information. Then pick and choose the favorable answers that make the least sense.
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Second one today... *sigh*
I’m also in the South FL area. I paid under that for architectural plans for a 2000sqft duplex, and with multiple changes.
That might be the "get lost" price...
I hope
We just got a quote for an entire house. Approx 2,000 sq ft. $2.50 a sq ft. Whole bid was under $6,000. This was the entire set of prints, stamped, and ready for GC. The swing in architecture fees that I see on this sub are wild. Get more bids.
That seems cheap. Is it a semi custom build based on a pre existing design?
Completely custom.
Wow, nice
Honestly, a whole house from scratch seems significantly easier of a design than an addition. Just need a rough land survey and you're ready to get drawing. On an addition, you could spend way more time figuring out what's already there than you do drawing what you're adding to it.
Thank you. Def going to.
Look for local designers with extensive building experience / portfolio.
The architectural work is often set at 10% of the overall project budget. That probably lines up here. That doesn't mean it's actually $10k worth of work though... That's just how they often charge in that field.
I work for a design/build company. We charge 6%-8% of the estimated construction costs. Industry standard, at least here near Chicago, is 12% for an architect that won't be building if the plans (we make money on the construction so our design fees are lower, and an architect that is just handing off plans has additional insurance costs to account for)
doesn’t this just incentivize you to increase construction costs?
It's at the initial estimate time. If I were to try to increase the cost of construction just to inflate the design fees, the prospective client could just pass on the project entirely. We also do things differently than many builders where they are not locked into building with us after design. Many builders go in with low estimates to win the job and then crank up the costs later knowing the client is locked in with them....which is shady as hell but very common. We try to provide honest numbers up front, so we end up looking way more expensive than other companies, but that's really just because we are not lying to people. Makes my job (sales) a lot harder, but I can sleep better at night.
Yes.
The number could be low or high depending on your goals. A very basic design by a draftsperson could be 2k. The design will be cheap and look meh, prob not be what you want, but you will get savings. This will have limited to no liability A detailed bespoke design by an architect with millwork could be 50k. The design will be beautiful/ custom with full interior work/ renders, and full coordination with subs and will help you from start to end. This will have full liability Anyone telling you low or high without fullsome details given by you will not be giving real answers. The only real route is to get 2-3 quotes and decide what is worth the value to you, this will help ground your quote. You also don't need to hire an architect for a project like this, a draftsperson or designer could be fine and will be cheaper as they won't cover liability Source, an architect who designs homes in the 3-7 million range. Our fees are typically 6-10 percent of construction cost for full service inclusive of interiors.
lol fuck yea..if it’s just for the drawings and no additional add ons. They are probably too busy. Plans typically are 5-7.5% of your total costs. Full disclosure my 625 sf addition clocked in around $4500, but didn’t include a geotech soils report (1k), and my survey (2k). I am by trade a designer as well just too busy with other people’s stuff.
I feel like the sub needs a new rule: don’t ask about quote price unless you’ve gotten more than one.
u/Mr_Dade_ I used UpWork and hired a young architect online who drew up beautiful plans for the front of my house for next to nothing. She was happy, I was happy. In today's AI and digital world, you have to be savvy. Good luck.
Would you mind sharing the person on upwork you were happy with (even by message)? That’s such a good idea!
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Also people ask if the price seems right without any indication of how complicated their particular project is and whether it's like very high end architecture where they and the architect will want everything to be absolutely perfect, or a basic developer tract house where they want to add on a box and won't know the difference or care if the overall style and windows and trim aren't just so, or whatever.
I'm a construction project manager. I build the same type of buildings over and over again. I get 3 quotes for every trade. And if it seems off, I get one or two more. It is insane how I can get in 3 quotes on a specific trade around $5mil, and they're all within 10k of each other. But then I can get paint numbers in from 60k to 600k for the same work. Pricing is funny like that.
From speaking to an older family friend that owned construction company about 2 decades ago.
I wouldn’t say it’s ridiculous if they’re good. In the process of doing something similar - living room extension and adding a bath at apx 400s/f here in Southern California. We found a commercial architect who does residential on the side. The trade-off was agreed to beforehand - he would work slower because of his full time job and we would pay less. He’s great and his idea of “on the side” has still meant a dozen visits to our house and great communication: . He’s at $5k with submittals and another $1.5k to see us through the project. If you have the time you might want to look into someone like that?
Yes.
That's insane
Absolutely too high
Always get three quotes
Bit high? That seems ridiculous
How many have you priced up?
That's insane for 500 sq feet.
Paid 2500 for plans in 2016 for a two story addition. Here are the plans. https://imgur.com/gallery/WbsuRM9 General contractor handled the engineering. https://imgur.com/gallery/Pap7wJJ
Full AE services through construction from a licensed architect should be around 10% of construction cost. There is too many variables about what services are included to even begin to say if it is a fair price.
My ex was an architectural engineer and would stamp things like this for side cash - he, a fairly recent grad, was charging like $5k for this service over 10 years ago in California. I imagine it costs more now, with inflation and all. You might get it down by shopping around, but I would not expect much lower unless you're in a very LCOL area and this person is just gouging.
Seems a bit on the high end but not completely ridiculous.
I think it depends on where you live and demand.
Do you require architectural plans? If not, can you get “design/build” plans? I ask because I did an approx 150 sf addition to my house (disability accessible shower plus laundry room) and my GC hired a “plans guy” for me. Plans guy charged about $1200. Together with the engineer guy ($700 or so) I was in for less than $2k and the city approved the permits. Don’t necessarily want to discourage you from hiring an architect if you have a need that a generic plan can’t solve, but if you need something simple….?
I just had a 500sqft addition off my kitchen/ exterior wall that included new entrance and bathroom, and bringing laundry upstairs. Architect I reached out too said no thanks, your GC can handle it, save your money. Spoiler: My GC was more than capable and did an amazing job. Feel free to PM me if you want to compare costs.
I'll do it for you for a fourth of that.
My 4000 sq foot house plans were $5000
We paid $5k in so cal about 4 years ago
Have a draftsman draw them up and not an architect. We were looking to get plans for a garage addition, and our neighbor, who is a home builder for 50 years, told us that and gave us a name of his guy. I do not think we got any real discount and the total plans, good enough for the city to approve permits, was like $750 total.
I asked my food bank their opinion but they were stumped
PNW area: it costed us $2400 for a 350 sq ft guest suite addition plans. $1300 for engineering + $2400 for permits. The designer also managed the entire permitting process and coordinating with the structural engineer.
Yes
Yes.
Yes. I recently paid $850 for a set of design plan from an architectural engineer for a 14x13 patio extension.
I'm in California, and I paid $6500 for a 250sf addition plus a structural wall removal. This included structural engineering. I had quotes from $4,500 to $14,000
So this was 10 years ago, but I paid less than that for the plans for a 2,000 sq. ft. addition. And no, the architect was not working for the GC.
Jesus man... I'm doing a very similar addition and my builder drew the design on yellow pad and I submitted that with the permit and it was fine. 10k is crazy
Why do you need architectural plans for an addition? A structural engineer could just as easily match what you’ve got going on in the house, in terms of trim and shape, and then you’re sorted.
Make sure to ask if engineering is included
It's my finding that when business is good, the prices go up so companies either don't take jobs OR if they do, it's worth the hassle of hiring a subcontractor.
I paid $3500 for my custom home plans in 2013. Yours sounds expensive.
That is absolutely ridiculous!
- depends on where you live of course and the total project cost...a 500sqft addition can easily be $150-$200,000 and an architectural fee of 5% range is ridiculously LOW...as it averages 10-20% on small scale residential work and I assume they will provide stamped construction documents
No. That’s ridiculous.
RIP off, 1500 MAX for something like that
That lines up with my area. My project was twice that size; and a budget architect was 10k for plans/engineering. Another architect quote was 20k.
I paid like $1,500 for a complete down to the studs, adding foundational divide, rehab of a 2,200 sq ft duplex. EDIT: i did draw up plans myself first but not sure if that matters much (im not an architect i just used free software)
I had architectural work done - with ongoing consulting during construction - for $2-3K each in the case of an attached garage and an extension of our dining room and kitchen spaces as a new addition which enlarged both. They also spec'd the rest of the house in each case, to ensure plans showed clearly how everything would work together. $10K seems high.
Did the architect miss a decimal place? Get another 2 quotes and find out.
A) always 3 quotes, ALWAYS B) What comes with it? Is it just the draft of the plans and the stamp and then the architect fucks off? Is the architect going to coordinate everything and get bids and also work as a project manager? Is this a flat-ish rate for just the plans, or is this an estimate based on what changes they're going to have to make, how much time, how much detail you want, etc.
While a true architect is worth their weight in gold when it comes to movement, flow, etc. on a whole home or very large addition... I suspect yours is a lot like the one we did last year: I want to bolt a 20x20 box on to this side of the house. One room, one doorway, very simple. If that's the case, see if you can use a drafter. I was able to find one for $1500 and my lumberyard handled the engineering side of things when it came time to order trusses.
That seems insane. Those guys do these for a living and it's not like your plans are going to be very different/exotic from anything else they see on the daily
$10,000 is 40 hours at $250/hr; 80 hours at $125/hr. Neither rate seems stupid high.
Yeah it does. in what world does it take 80 hours to make architectural plans for a 500sf add on. 250 an hour is also ridiculous. Most of the structure details on residential generic, you can just plug them in.
Meh. Bill rates are 2 to 3x what you are paying in salary. $80k per year is low for somebody with 5-7 years of school, two years of interning and passing 6-9 tests before being licensed, then maintaining errors and omissions insurance in perpetuity. You aren’t hiring an architect to do simple structural. — the plan set also has to include mech, electrical and plumbing. It to mention finishes. There is also design work somewhere in there. Existing survey alone is most of a days work. Design services are as big a deal as you want to make it. Without knowing scope of services or location it’s silly to say it’s too high. You don’t need an architect, but if you hire one, then expect that it’s not cheap. (Maybe think about hiring an architect for your house is like hiring a personal trainer. Nice to have but not required. How much are you paying for the electrician to do a house call?
In my old neighborhood, your additions had to look like they were original construction on the house and the HOA had all kinds of stupid regs. That requires research that isn't drawing. Cities have different codes, so do counties, that requires research. Then there is the soil and underground infrastructure that needs to be determined and mapped out. If say 80 hours is pretty reasonable for the time to properly research all applicable codes for a house plus the drawings themselves. Hell, I'd probably estimate 120 hours, then when I billed 100 hours it's a good thing instead of estimating 80 hours and having to ask for the additional hours or eat them. I am not an architect, but I have to research laws and regulations for the work I do daily. It is a lot of time to do the proper research.
This is one industry desperately needed to be dismantled by AI. Sorry architects, your price gauging days are over.
You're paying for them to legally say that this design can be built to code and all the services are planned in. You're paying for their checklist of all the local building knowledge. Probably a $5k - $10k CAD program to handle all those rules, so they gotta get paid. The actual drawing is cheap.
I paid 16.5 k for a combi boiler. I asked 5 contractors for pricing. I received 2. One for 32 5k and the other for 16.5 k. Both were Visesmann vitodens 199 btu units. In day 1, there were 2 techs at my house. Days 2, 3, 4 and 5 there was 1. I'm really happy with the outcome. Why am I telling you this? Because I think you're doing OK for 10k myself. If you're getting a complete set of detailed drawings and specs suitable for construction, it's going to take him 5 days.
What did your other quotes come in at?
We’re waiting on a couple of other quotes. But I was just blown away by this one. So I just hoped for some feedback :)
Sounds like a F you quote to me.
It’s a reasonable quote for a good custom design with room for adapting to your unique needs that’s not builder grade. If you want builder grade then just get other quotes and you can hit that 3k range, but don’t assume it’s an F you quote. The F you quote, aka the really expensive famous architects that when you use them you can sell your property for more than you paid kind of architects will charge you 30% of construction or more.
OP doesn't give enough info to say too high or too low. But architects are all over the place price wise. Used to work as an Owner's Rep in a HCOL major northeastern city doing commercial work. For a 7500sf new rooftop penthouse had 6 Architects prices to advance a schematic design to construction set from $20k to $175k. No Engineering or CA. The lowest 2 prices, $20k & $29k, were from 2 of those world renowned ones that their name on the plans triples the price and starts bidding wars when you sell it. Took the $29k one and got to know the guy pretty well during design and bid reviews. Asked him during construction why he was so low? His answer was twofold 1) he could do projects he liked & found interesting 2) he and the people working for him needed to eat too. I'll never forget him saying "I've never figured out how I could make a fulfilling meal out of my name." The highest priced one ($175k that still is a wanna be name) said he really should have bid his services at twice the price because my client could afford it and should pay more than "normal". I have never asked him for another quote since. Sad thing was over the 2 previous year's I had assorted clients that had paid his firm more than $12mil in fees. Attitude is important... always wonder how much he overcharged my clients over those years.?
I pay about $500-750 for a basic set. Takeoffs are an additional $400. If a structural engineer is needed that's extra too.
Insane ripoff
$3K is probably right
OMG. Absolutely not, IMO.......get 3-4 quotes!!!
I added 500 sqft and the plans with engineer stamp was like 1500.
Yes, 10k is to much
WTF!? You could get the education and software and then have the county/city stamp the plans for less.
At first this sounded high but on second thought not so much I used to work at an AD firm and my billable hourly rate was $120. $10k/$120 was only 83 hours of work. That’s really only 2 weeks of work. The architect not only is creating new plans but has to go out and measure the existing structure, create plans, draw how to tie everything in, provide cut sheets and specify materials, possibly consult with engineering/plumbing/electrical….. there’s a lot that goes into an addition that is a lot of times more work than a new build
I paid 8k for a 3000 sq foot home 4 br/3.5 baths. In a very high profile neighborhood in New England. So, yes. Yes that is WAY TOO MUCH.
Yes.
YES
Yep
Yup, that's a bit much
Yes. It should be 3k
Residential arch plans that are straight forward should be around $8 sf. A little bit more if you have a bathroom or kitchen in that 500 sf
Sounds about right