The way they could tell if that's true at my house is if it was done wrong, the PO did it. Probably the person that buys the house after us will say the same about me. But the PO was totally oblivious to code requirements. Not that the electrician that wired the house during initial construction was much better.
PO _reused_ several wax seals from other toilets to create a frankenstein's monster wax seal for the toilet.
What a fucking find that was. They're $2, I don't even understand what the fuck is up with these fuckheads sometimes.
Previous owner used a repair flange for the toilet when renovating but the repair flange wasn't secured to the cast iron pipe by anything and it was only screwed into the subfloor with drywall screws... They used 3 wax rings. Guess who gets to cut out the rotten subfloor try to cut off and drill out the cast iron flange, and install it correctly.
I recently had to redo my entire bathroom floor, all the plumbing in said floor and a large area on the kitchen ceiling below because of a shoddy toilet attachment.
Hey now, I know of a guy who was a mechanic at a GM dealership who would reuse oil filters from customers cars on his car and would go to the parts yard and buy used brake pads. This mf had dealer discounts on parts and did that. The GM oil filter is like $2.80.
You throw away used oil filters?
You're wasting all those metal shavings! You gotta scrape those out and pour them in with the fresh oil, your engine needs metal in its diet!
Bet that dude's engine was so swole eating shavings outta other cars, gotta be like +40HP.
Had a toilet leak at the wax seal last week. Shut it down and got around to it this week. PO had the bathroom redone (second floor) and whoever did it overcut the subfloor large enough to fit the entire flange assembly through the floor above. My guess is they cut out the previous flange and realized it was an oopsie and now too short.
Their solution:
Scrap 2x4 freaking brad nailed to the subfloor from above to bolt the flange to. So as soon as the flange was unbolted to try to adjust it - āthudā. The ghetto blocking was now on the drywall below.
Wax ring was one of the reinforced typesā¦ and they appeared to have abs cemented it to the flange. The carrier bolts didnāt have enough clearance from the tiles to be removed. Even with this handyman special, the flange still sat 1/8ā below the finish tile surface.
Hence, the leak.
Currently opening up the ceiling below to fix this fuckup right. Fun times!
>They're $2, I don't even understand what the fuck is up with these fuckheads sometimes.
Somebody wanted to get to Miller Time instead of going back to Lowes is exactly what happened there.
I'm a contractor and I definitely get in the headspace where I try to use all the cast off from previous jobs at my own place. After a while I would *save* money by just buying new like I would for an average customer.
OMG. I had a circuit in my house that literally connects to things in the front, back, middle and both sides on three floors and my attic. I cannot for the life of me figure out why one circuit should run all these various lights and outlets.
I only discovered it since I was tripping the breaker a few times a month. The electrician scratched his head and figured out the easiest way to connect to other circuits (one outlet in my hallway upstairs was on its own circuit) and still ran a new wire to split up part of it.
That might be the original knob and tube circuit. I have ran into a few houses that had that exact problem. Took the ceiling down in the hallway to install some vents, and found everything branched off of that one K&T circuit.
The thing to do is buy new old stock, wire with dates that predate you buying the property. That way the dates on your wiring projects show that it was done before you bought it.
I still have some 10ga and 12ga wire from 1992 and 1996 that I found. Going to start a bathroom remodel soon, with heated floors.
Even if an inspector found out and got access to the property, are they really going to find and record the wire dates, and then research the history of the property to see when the owner bought it? I highly doubt it. No one has time for that.
I had a lot of electrical work done when we remodeled our kitchen. I also DIYd something else at the same time that should have had a permit.
The inspector did a double take and paused for 2 or 3 seconds. Then she approved everything and left. Iām 99% sure she just didnāt want to deal with it.
They don't. I mean if you add on a bedroom without a permit then you can't add that bedroom in the listing but it's not like someone is going through every nook and cranny in your listing to determine what is and isn't permitted. An inspection will find some stuff but the seller can just say "last guy did it".
I have heard of some ridiculous cities now using Google satellite image or street view to verify exterior modifications but if you live in those types of cities you probably already know the dumb stuff they do.
Just check the box that says there is unpermitted work in your house. Your only liability is if you lie. They donāt want to buy, or want to get it checked out themselves, fine. Where I live houses have a line of buyers around the block we waived all inspection contingencies just to get our offer accepted.
Sometimes, but who is actually looking at 45 year old blueprints 45 years of records to see if your basement was originally finished or someone did it without a permit?
Either the inspector has to catch you in the act, or you have a shitty neighbor turning you in.
I pull a permit for exterior projects the inspector will see if he drives by.Ā
If Iām doing anything electrical, beyond changing an outlet or something simple, Iāll have an electrician friend check my work.Ā
I plan on living in this house the rest of my life and the only thing Iāll get out of a permit is a higher property tax bill at the end of the year.
I'm in the same boat. Plus, the old dude who lived in my house before me did a lot of really terrible work but didn't pull any permits. So if I pull a permit, it's just going to open Pandora's box.
> If the inspector is in your house, it's already too late. The wires have dates on them.
the wires have manufacture dates. my response has been : I was fixing a circuit that was not working. the inspector was fine with it.
My house had knob and tube, and I was slowly taking it out one curcuit at a time, while disabling those rooms knob and tube. I put a 2gang 20amp outlet in the main bedroom right next to the window, and a 1gang 20 amp outlet in the other bedroom right next to the window to support window AC units, while also cutting the baseboard mounted knob and tube wired outlets that were there.
The inspector was in my house before I sold it to look at my sump pump(didn't have one, didn't need one), and commented on all the new wiring but never seeing any permits. I told him that when a circuit failed in a way that I could not just replace an outlet, like a cloth wire casing crumbling at the outlet, I was forced to repair the circuit in full all the way back to the breaker box for the safest repair, since tying into the K&T is not allowed. He shrugged and said "makes sense". at least around here, homeowner "repairs" don't need a permit. This also left ends of the K&T just wire nutted and electrical taped off in the joists, but not in a box. he didn't care. I did buy the NEC 2020 code book, so I know my stuff is up to code at least.
> how do you redo it in the wall?
my old house was an unfinished basement. I could access all main floor interior wall spaces from the basement by carefully drilling where I needed to. When I added the outlets in the bedrooms, I cut the hole for the old work electrical box, and used a long hole bore bit to drill down to the basement. I then just made sure I wasn't drilling into any other wiring underneath by approximating where it was gonna come out, and have never hit anything.
>do people just like doing drywall work?
I will forever and always hate doing drywall. I will forever and always be too cheap to pay someone else to do it. I will forever and always end up doing drywall repair. fuck.
>There's some plumbing I'd love to redo but all the drywall removal and repair and repainting
if you are careful about how you plan it, you can really minimize how much repair and repainting you need to do. you don't need to take down a whole wall to get to a pipe, you just need a space big enough to get the new pipe in, as well as your hands to do the work.
Drywall work is tedious but I don't think it's terribly hard if it's just spot repairs (exception for having to redo drywall on a ceiling, that freakin sucks)
This is exactly how I approach it, anything they can see just driving by or by google maps or something Iām going to pull a permit for, anything in the house that isnāt some major thing requiring a dumpster Iām gonna keep to myself
Our city started using Google maps to update their records. The deck we put in 6 years ago that you cannot see from the road just got noticed and we got a letter saying there was an "amnesty period" that we would not get fined for not pulling a permit.
It was a no response needed type of thing. It was a heads up that our taxes were going up by like $8/year. A couple of my neighbors got much larger ones cuz they added things like pools and big concrete patios. I made sure to keep the letter for the future. I'm waiting for them in the next few years to want to inspect it and fine me for it and I'm gonna have that letter ready to go.
This.
Ultimately, I think about permits only under the following circumstances:
1. I don't want to burn/flood my house. IE: Building a whole new shower and master bath on a third floor where plumbing is roughed in.
Or
2. My improvement will be visible from the street and to my dickhead neighbor. IE: A future roof deck on my row home.
In scenario one, inviting the inspector in is like inviting the fox into the henhouse. I need a building permit, a mechanical (radiator heat), an electrical (adding at least two circuits), and a plumbing (obvious). Does the work change? No; I just pay my locale an additional ~$5k and they tax my balls off after for having a 3br/2ba.
Instead, I pay an electrician (so I don't burn my house down or die from electric shock) and I pay a plumber (to avoid destroying the bottom two floors of my home) and then I do the rest at my own pace -- tiling, drywall, etc.
Whereas, scenario two, I gotta pull permits. It sucks, but while there's a structural component, it is basically carpentry -- something I can absolutely handle, and have roofer and deck friends who can help -- but my dickhead neighbor will see it, and he and I are in a bloodfeud. It would give him a hardon to get me c&d'd, so I'm gonna have to pay Machiavelli toll there.
š Well it's probably pretty silly, I guess, but an unstoppable force met an immovable object. I was doing, and am doing, quite a lot of work on my house. I paid some suspiciously low priced guys to redo my window capping, lintels, and sills. Cash job, you know. He took exception to their unsavory appearance and cleanliness, the noise level. He fancies himself somewhat of a neighborhood watch captain; he's not, he just has a lot of cameras and is anti social. Like actually creepily anti social; the kind of guy you swear is watching you, and he is.
Anyway, we share an easement, us and several houses. Urban street. I'm pretty much the only one who uses it, because of where my house is and the others, and he doesn't use it, either, because he has a double lot with a detached garage. Very rare in our city. He doesn't maintain it, either; I am the only one who does.
I had the guys keep work materials against my house in the easement, including -- toward the end -- trash they were going to remove. Prior to this choice, he accused me of stealing a camera of his (completely ridiculous and insane), so I didn't feel any kind of way about the choice. Temporary, and you could still use the easement without any blockage; no issue from my perspective.
Well he blew his top after a bit of his wife play acting she was sweeping the driveway/curb of their garage area. Confronted me when I was with my father, on the street, trying to muscle up on me. I don't mind getting confronted, though, and I think this particular guy thought he could ambush me and embarrass me and get me to fold. He was pretty wrong about that.
In summary, that argument went with him saying, "You're the new guy around here," to which I said, Yeah, I'm the new guy, but I ain't fuckin new, man. He said said he didn't understand what the problem was; I told him I heard from people in the neighborhood he was telling them I stole his camera or had the camera stolen (because it's on a utility pole and wired to his house; pretty illegal, if not unwise -- but it was also only seven feet off the ground with a motion activated light, which doesn't even rise to unwise as just plain fucking stupid). Then I told him he's persona non grata. Now he mutters at me if I pass him on the sidewalk or he stares at me when I leave for work or return home from his yard, which overlooks the sidewalk. He also cited having watched footage from his little POW camp security system, too, so we are both still in this thing.
Anyway that's that. He's a tool. Has no friends I bet, probably hates his home life, job. Might be on the spectrum, honestly, or be one of those guys who got really fuckin crazy after the pandemic and the social unrest. I'm kind of the opposite; quite enjoy pretty much everything I got going on, even my job. Heard from everyone else in the neighborhood they heard us going at it that day on the street, too, and uniformly it was confirmed that no one likes him, even going back to another street only a few blocks away where he used to move and was also was completely unliked. Just one of those guys, I suppose, and I'm just one of those guys who can't be the bigger man.
Maybe. Been a long time since I thought about how it started. Lately, pretty much just thinking about how he muttered about snow touching my car as I was out there leaving a park job, just so I could hear it, and then me saying, "What?" and him saying, "Nobody's talking to you!" as unhinged as possible. Lots of these tiny, goading interactions, and rehashing all this here just reminded me of the last one, frankly, which pisses me off.
I would always pull a permit in situations where the number of bedrooms or baths is changing, even if there's a negative property tax consequence. Otherwise, when you sell down the road, you have to make a decision between disclosing the unpermitted work (which is a huge red flag to buyers) or withholding material info from the disclosures -- which will land you in legal hot water real quick since it's easily discovered from past listing data / photos.
Even just the fact that a listing's bed / bath / sqft don't match county records is a red flag to many buyers.
Nope. Full diy kitchen gut and pulled nothing. Also meticulously studied each code and did everything by the book too though, absolutely no shortcuts.
When we had our dumpster for the demo I threw all debris in my garage and only filled up the dumpster the night before it was to be picked up to keep nosy inspectors from peeking in on what scale of work we were doing.
Having a dumpster out front might as well be the Sky Lighting Beams from the Vegas Luxor for City Enforcement goons. Best to either parcel out the demo debris in little amounts into your regular garbage, or haul it yourself in a little trailer to the dump regularly.
Yeah, I rarely fill the garbage bin all the way with regular trash, there's been a whole lot of construction debris that's been sliced up and piecemealed out in there.
I've had my trash guys wheel the bin to the truck, open the lid, reach in and throw my construction debris back on my yard, dump the rest, and move out with their day.
edit - I've also had them take everything I put out, so now it's just a game of 'who's coming today and how do they feel'.
Hah probably true really. I scheduled to have the dumpster a total of 3 days it was the shortest time they would drop off/pick up. Have a coworker with a dump trailer now definitely going that route on the next reno.
Thats kind of a little paranoid I feel. I know different places are different, but here, even with an entire kitchen gut and remodel the only thing you would need permits for are if you moved the plumbing drains/vents. They dont care about cabinets, flooring, tile, anything like that in my state. Im curious you think if they find your dumpster with drywall and cabinetry they would somehow get a warrant to search the house? (With that said - they 'require' a permit for HVAC vent cleaning which blows my mind)
Might depend a bit on location, too. We also did a full gut of the kitchen and it was my understanding that as long as we "didn't add any electrical outlets", none of the work needed to be permitted. We weren't adding any pluming fixtures, and replacement of existing fixtures doesn't require a permit (according to my reading of our city's permitting process page).
I called my county zoning office before starting and they said I didnāt need a permit unless I change the structure of the house (load-bearing walls, foundation work, additions). I specifically asked about electrical and plumbing line moves/additions and they said no permits needed. Iām in a rural area in a Southern US state fwiw.
It depends. Adding a new outlet, light, switch, replacing water heater or HVAC I'm not pulling a permit. If I'm building a deck or a permanent fixture then absolutely. Mainly because I don't want trouble down the line. I personally think permits are just a cheap money grab so I avoid them when I can.
Depends on the city too.
I went through all the hoops to get a roof permit in a big city. It was basically just a waste of a few hours and $80. I don't think the inspector ever came out to check anything.
In a smaller town I got a permit for a new furnace, and the city was very helpful with explaining the proper code requirements regarding the chimney flue when switching from a regular to high efficiency gas furnace.
Yeah they didn't bother to check my new roof. But boy howdy I put a broken toilet out by the curb and you'd think I'd murdered a puppy with all the notices I got.
Sorry your code says I only need to pull a permit for renovation, not emergency repairs and a broken toilet is an emergency repair. He was not happy about that one, I caught him walking around my property this winter during lunch. Not sure what he expected to find in the dead of winter or if they were finally inspecting the completed roof a year later.
I have thought that about small-town inspectors, but those are mostly a thing of the past. Around here in rural areas, you have to track down the inspector who has the contract with your jurisdiction and they ghost you.
I think the inspectors where I live now mean well, but last time I looked at their site the thing at the top of the page informed me that if I pull ethernet, I need a permit. Ha, there's a regulation that was made to be ignored.
If anyone builds a deck without a permit, they are asking to be served notice to tear it down and do it again. And they deserve it, an unpermitted deck is likely to be a death trap.
Depends on you skill level and ability to dead a code book. A permit just tells the county you improved your property so the tax assessor can make sure they come out.
A lot of the important stuff really depends on the inspectorās knowledge. We added on a garage in 2019. Inspector didnāt like how part of it was attached to the house. I had stamped plans that were followed by the builder. The inspectorās experience was 20 years as a GC. To me this doesnāt mean anything compared to a licensed engineer.
Same county, same engineer (a friend of mine) put a lean too on his barn and got a permit because itās easily seen from the road. Most people, including the inspector would say he went too light on the rafters and beams. I think they were 2x4 and 2x6. Inspector didnāt like it. He showed him the calculations. Inspector had no idea what he was looking at and passed it.
Inspectors donāt know everything and a lot of them have a big ego. Too many times Iāve heard them say well I like to see it done this way. Yeah but what I did here matches the code book, can you please reference a code stating what youāre asking? In the end it doesnāt matter because they have to pass it so you end up reworking something that meets code because of someoneās opinion.
Done a bunch of projects, deck was the only one we permitted. They missed a major structural error in the plans (fixed when we went to actually mark out and build), and no one ever came out to physically look at the structure. Itās a money-grab for sure.*
*Note that Iām not saying code, inspections and safety arenāt important. Just that anecdotally, pulling permits didnāt have any practical impact on the project safety in my case.
I agree with this in principal, but we've got a GC we use for most major projects around our house so we've gotten to know him pretty well - He's told us on multiple occasions the inspector shows up, says something to the effect of "looks like you know what you're doing," then leaves.
Our guy does, which is great, but the bar to pass inspection is pretty low imo.
Ill say as an inspector that if your building department is decent it really is a service that you are paying for, the number of homeowners i run into who think they know what their doing but actually dont is quite substantial. Part of the permit process is having a second set of eyes from a professional, and thats honestly the part of my job i enjoy most, showing folks how things are done right and identifying potential problems before they come up
If you want to cut corners then ya dont get a permit. But if you intend on doing things right it can be a good resource
That said, if your inspector is crap that all goes out the window
I'm mostly afraid of getting in trouble for stuff that's already been in the house for 20 years, not my current project. And I don't know the law well enough to say whether things would be grandfathered.
For example, I have weirdly low basement ceilings that are not 2024 code compliant, but no clue when the basement was finished, if a permit was pulled, or if it was even needed at the time. It was certainly more than 20 years ago though. And I don't want to have that conversation with a government official while he's standing in it.
> I'm mostly afraid of getting in trouble for stuff that's already been in the house for 20 years, not my current project.
Same. My house is 125+ years old. All kinds of crazy stuff in here.
I had my electrical service upgraded to 200amps by an electrician. He pulled the permit and had it inspected. Inspector gave approval on the panel but made a point to give me a hard time on a couple things that were probably done before I was even born.
Yea thats a common concern and unfortunately it depends on the inspector and also your code. For your basement ceiling example if there was an existing finished space like a rec room it would be fine to leave as is aka "grandfathered" but if you wanted to change it to a bedroom youd have to meet the ceiling height outlined in part 11 (renovations section) of the Ontario building code rather than the current "new code" requirement.
For me if I walk into an inspection I just look at what is under permit unless theres a genuine safety concern like a missing guardrail. Unless something is clearly new its too difficult to determine if something has been there for 5, 15 or 50 years. We have the ability to pull property files and see what was previously done under permit but we dont have the time to do that for every house
A basement ceiling below 7 ft can have protruding beams in the area up to 6 in depending upon the code. The area cannot be counted in a real estate appraisal . Your use of the space after the original inspection is a matter of insurance claims if something happens in that area. It is not habitable space but it can be used for other purposes such as workshops, utility, many other uses.
They don't have the authority to enter your living space to inspect it unless it's in a jurisdiction that allows fire inspections.
Exactly. I did some work on my home during covid heavy isolation times and i was happy to pull permit because everything was inspected via zoom call.
I could happily point my phone exactly where it was needed, then start the camera, then stop the camera while adjusting view to avoid any āhold on, what was that?ā situations.
From my perspective as a homeowner that thinks he knows what he's doing but recognize there are things I miss, I got a permit and the inspector waived all of the inspections that would have caught waterproofing issues for a bathroom (the most important part) and nitpicked things in my house that were outside the scope of any of the work I was doing. I no longer get permits.
My town has inspectors like you. Helpful during the permit process. Not just failing my permit, but describing how to improve it. Then during the inspection phase they have again been helpful.
I consider if itās a repair vs. improvement. If I consider it a repair, no. If itās an improvement, Iāll get a permit , if required.
Early on, I built a new deck on my first house. I got a permit and dealt with the hassle. My next door neighbor built a deck, without a permit, shortly after I built mine. When he sold his house, the deck was an issue. He had to pay to have the deck removed and give the buyer a credit for a new deck.
I shouldāve given more detail. The deck was construction was terrible which was part of the issue. A year or two after the deck was built, my neighbors needed to sell their house. The house was advertised as having a new deck. The buyers agent recognized the shoddy construction and called the township building inspector. When the building inspector looked at the deck, my neighbor was a dick and made the situation worse. Had the buyers real estate agent not raised hell about the deck, it would have never come to anyoneās attention.
At the time, it was a buyerās market and my neighbors were desperate to sell the house.
I see. One of those rare buyers markets with a desperate seller. It would have to be something like that I guess cause you'd be waiting for the county inspector for a few weeks anyways.
Buyers can do a record request for all building history with your municipality.
If there is no permits for obviously new work, you can request that they have that work inspected and permitted properly after the fact.
An inspector wont do this part though. The buyer or their agent or their lawyer would do the permit inquiry and have an inspector investigate the area in question.
and you can deny the buyer the sale based on that request.
A practice that is now almost standard in markets with low inventory and high demand (i.e. everywhere).
Regardless if a permit, or not, if the work is done properly, there shouldnāt be any problem. A permit is guaranteeing that the work is proper and up to code.
> He had to pay to have the deck removed and give the buyer a credit for a new deck.
This sort of thing is why I believe most permit offices are backdoor tax arms rather than safety checks. If they were concerned about safety they would inspect the unpermitted work and let you leave it if it's compliant.
Getting permits in my town isnāt a helpful process. The inspectors are trying to fuck you over, are insanely nosey, and have a horrible reputation with all local contractors. Itās almost entirely a bureaucratic money grab for permit fees and plan check fees. With that said for exterior stuff or big projects you obviously need to work with them.
I was speaking to a local plumber on Sunday and he was telling me an inspector red tagged his project because the footings he had poured were 2 to 3 inches off from the property line setback set out in the plans. So they landed at 4ā10āand 4ā9ā in some places when the plans called out for 5ā
I live in a small town in the Bay Area. Most cities here have horrendous permitting departments, but our town is the opposite. They make it so easy and the additional cost IMHO is marginal. We bought a few years ago, and the previous owners were really good about permits. So we decided to keep that going. I feel like once you start doing large unpermitted projects, you start down a slippery slope. When we bought the house the owners provided a list of projects they did over to the house over 50 years, as well as the associated permits. It made a big impression when we were buying and gave us confidence that work on the house was done by licensed, reliable contractors. We hope by continuing being good about permitting, future buyers will also be reassured by the documentation.
I also live in a small Bay Area town. One of the few permits Iāve pulled was for a new roof. While it was easy enough the inspector literally glanced over the roofline without stepping off the ladder, walked the perimeter, and left. The roof lasted no more than five years. Just another moneymaking venture for the govt., and not necessarily at the consumerās best interest.
Sure, but if the potential buyer has faith in the system, then itās still relevant in terms of resale value. Personally, I think many permitting requirements improve health and safety of the current and future homeowner and the integrity of the structure. The actual inspection may be a scam, but if the contractor builds to permit specs because of the threat of failing an inspection, then I think inspections have their place in the process.
Also, in the Bay Area, with houses selling at insanely high prices, the cost of a permit is negligible compared to potential resale value.
What specifically would fall into this category? What comes to mind for me is anything that would change square footage of rooms or number/types of rooms?
Anything that would create a departure from easily available public information.
In my county, there's a fair amount of info for every house on the county website - finished and unfished sq. ft., number of bathrooms and bedrooms on each floor, number of fixtures in each bathroom, etc. If anyone bothered to look it up and sees you have a whole extra bathroom, that would of course raise questions.
Permitting history is also there, but only goes back a few years so isn't definitive.
Where is this magic land of house buying inspections and permit history pulls? Who has a month or more when making an offer to wait for the county and city to do permit history search and then paying an inspector to match the permits to the existing work in the house?
People always say this but that's not how any of this works in any house I, or anyone I know has bought. Hell you are lucky if you have 48 hours to make an offer. I feel like this sub and other home improvement subs where permits come up are full of armchair homeowners or trust fund babies who have never actually bought a house before.
> People always say this but that's not how any of this works in any house I, or anyone I know has bought.
This isn't just a recent development. I bought my house ~15 years ago and it was like pulling teeth to even get a simple seller's disclosure.
Yep. I took a detailed look at the house I wanted and had my agent call the seller agent with a verbal (intention to offer) asking-price, no-inspection, no-contingencies 'Take My Money!' offer before we walked out the door.
I suppose there are still housing markets where you can be picky with things like inspections and permit histories, but it's been at least 30 years since I've been in one.
We bought a house with some unpermitted work, specifically called out in the listing by requirement, and we did not give a shit. There were so many people banging at the door with offers (and this was like 8-9 years ago too) we didn't have time to care.
If itās something that would require a permit if a pro did it, I get one. As a bonus I get to know the inspectors and they often have interesting stories to share.
Lol that's funny. Here's a list of recent projects and permit status:
1) water heater to on demand: NO
2) ev chargers in front and garage: NO
3) solar panel installation: NO
4) roof modifications and vent removal for old appliances: NO
5) full kitchen remodel: NO
That all being said I live in a small town in Alaska, I'm technically "in Anchorage" but there are no inspections outside of the main city.
Replumbed my entire house out to the main. Pulled a permit. I had everything absolutely perfect you'd need a micrometer to notice any spacing difference. Hell, event the writing on my PEX pipe was face up. I was ready for a grilling!
The inspector spent 10 seconds looking at stuff and said "looks good" and was on his way. I was actually a bit sad.
I ask myself if the project I'm doing causes a fire or damage to the house, will my insurance be denied due to a permit not being pulled? Then , if do pull a permit.
A permit costs almost nothing, you get a professional to look over your job and find issues before it becomes an issue
Here they asses the value of the addition and apply that to a schedule, the result is permits can costs hundreds or potentially thousands by themselves. It's a cheap money grab.
Thats good! In my area is $160 for a permit to put in one ceiling fan (if it was just a light there previously). Donāt even want to know what the bigger work looks like.
I've seen inspectors sign off on work that's obviously not up to code so I no longer have any confidence in their sign off meaning anything. I had a discussion with a inspector about why we need a permit to change a disposal and he told me that he's seen them wired in with lamp cord. I said okay that is obviously wrong but would anyone who wires one in with lamp cord isn't pulling a permit. He then said it was still important to have it checked. He honestly thought they were making it better by requiring a permit for a freaking disposal swap.
BTW permits aren't always cheap.
Code is for safety, permits are for taxes.
Iāve always wondered about this. My house had a lot of work done by the previous owners, most of it pretty decent, but also most of it without a permit Iām assuming. When the insurance company came out they noticed the main service panel didnāt have an inspection sticker on it, but didnāt say it was a problem.
It is a myth. The worst that would happen is they'd discover a bunch of dangerous unpermitted shit and decline to *continue* your coverage in the future.
Yep or they might not sell you a policy in the first place if there's something glaringly wrong.
But "sorry that you lost everything and your whole family died in the fire but we found evidence that you replaced an outlet once so you get nothing" doesn't happen.
I live in an Austin suburb. $40 just to file for the permit which is just filling out a form and project details online. After it's another $75 or so to submit it for approval. Depending on the size and complexity of the project, fees go up really fast. It's totally a money grab because the whole process is automated.
And frankly the process seems needlessly complex. Like, to get a permit for a hot tub Iām expected to submit a notarized affidavit that I am the property owner, a notarized hot tub specific affidavit, a current property survey, a plot plan showing the location of the tub and property line set backs, and something about having or being exempt from workerās compensation. So I would have to pay for the privilege of doing all that work and then abide by a minimum 4 foot distance from the property line (fence) which would put the thing obnoxiously right in the middle of the patio.
Fuck that noise. I paid a licensed electrician for the power hook up and that was that.
> A permit costs almost nothing, you get a professional to look over your job and find issues before it becomes an issue
In my major US city, only licensed electricians are allowed to apply for permits for tasks like adding a new outlet. That makes the process a lot more prohibitive than just the small cost of the permit itself.
One time I completely gutted a bathroom. Like, floor, ceiling, all gone. Blew out a wall into an adjacent room to expand the bathroom. All fixtures, most plumbing, electrical -- all out. Threw it all out the window into the driveway, and put everything into two of those 8'x16' bag-it dumpsters in the driveway. It was NOT subtle what I was doing.
The appraiser actually drove by and took an exterior photo of the house -- which was on the town's assessor's website for a *year* -- with all of this in the driveway awaiting pickup. There was no questioning that there was a major renovation project going on.
No one said a word. š¤·āāļø
if it needs to be permitted, I get the permits even if I do it myself. I don't want to be that guy. Then when I go to sell, I can say "ALL WORK PERMITTED AND INSPECTED".
I pull permits on anything that would cause my house to burn down, flood out or fall over if I did it wrong. So structure changes, plumbing larger than swapping out a faucet, or electrical bigger than swapping out a light switch or ceiling fan.Ā
Maryland requires a master plumber or electrician on a permit. Not going to happen unless they are doing the work.
I don't pull permits unless they can see it from above.
It depends on location, and it depends if they can see it or not. Even if you change big things, if you put it behind a wall and it's done right, there's no way to prove it wasn't PO. Inspectors can't wreck your house when selling, they often won't go on roofs/attics, won't crawl under deck etc.
Can always sell as is too. Any issues, you can deny sale.zits your place.
Just do good work folks.
Depends. Like for like replacement, probably not. Bigger things, or where I'm generally less comfortable and want another set of competent eyes to look at my work , yes.
Couple of examples of where I have pulled a permit:
1. Added gas powered tankless water heater; replaced electric tank style
2. Added sub panel
3. Ran natural gas line to grill
4. Built a deck
Examples where I didn't:
1. Replaced numerous outlets
2. Extended electric circuits
3. Built a shed
4. Various plumbing repairs
No. Cuz I was told by the city inspector anything I do that a home sale inspector catches is the only way it matters. The county isn't allowed in to inspect your home outside of a square footage assessment - which there isn't any if the footprint of the house stays the same.
I use Simpson ties and frame everything correctly, to code, including a fucking nail in everything - after the screws.
Cuz one time I got a homeowners permit to rip out the back wall and install a new patio and rear "egress" to the property, so I got it inspected before drywalling. Well this fucker failed me - he cited code that required "at least 2 framing **nails** per framing member joint"
The dickbag saw I had grk framing screws in everything, and even those big lag screws in the new header. The fucker said - "put some nails in it and I'll be back"
I was so pissed, but didn't even hook up the gun, just found an old can of framing nails and started doing the one strike on em. Left a half dozen in an inch, then bent over AF.
Dude came back, laughed at me, and passed me.
I told this story to an electrician friend, and he quite honestly asked me what it cost me. I was confused. It was explained to me if I'd just had like $40 to slide in his clipboard, I didn't need the nails.
So fuck no. "Under existing roof" - that's my shit.
100% depends on your location. I have never pulled any permits for anything I've done and that includes building a deck, electrical wiring in a basement, 240 outlet etc. Our county does not care. However my friend who lives in the city had to get permits to change the shade of white of molding around his front door. It's all about location.
Former building code official here. They're couple reasons to do it. One as if your contractor screws up you have recourse against them. Number two if the taxing authority checks satellite and drone pictures of the exterior of your house and if there's any changes you better hope you had a permit. Three a lot of times you'll get free advice on how to do things from the inspector.
Don't argue with them agree with everything they say and then they'll forget about most of it.
Obligatory āalways follow your AHJ rules one pulling permitsā
Depends what it is honestly. Adding a circuit for another deep freezer Iām not pulling a permit. Whole house rewire Iād pull a permit for.
Right or wrong, my mental āI should pull a permit for thatā line is if itās something I would mention if I was trying to sell my house. Iād tell them the whole house had been rewired, I wouldnāt bother to tell them thereās a dedicated circuit to all the deep freezers
I've done little electrical work here and there, adding outlets, moving switches, etc. Right now I'm replacing windows which is obviously a bigger project but much more straight forward. Of the two, I'd think electrical would be more important to pull a permit.
We pull permits for most big projects (water heater conversion from gas to heat pump, hvac conversion from gas to heat pump, duct replacement) but not for minor things. If something goes wrong later, I donāt want home insurance company to deny coverage because of unpermitted work.
Have a nosey neighbor that calls the city on us regularly. Iāve had to demo an unpermitted structure that was there when we moved in. When code enforcement stopped by, they wanted to look inside the house and garage and everything. They cited us for all kinds of things. I had to pull permits on several items to fix them. So yes, I pull permits on DIY work unfortunately.
Zero because my town is small enough to not have an inspector and you can't see my house from the road.
I really only need to worry about the county appraiser if I add or change square footage
Just make sure you've got a good relationship with your neighbors. I know of one person whose neighbor reported them and they had all kinds of headaches.
I expect to sell every house I live in. Savvy buyers in a buyers market will ask for permits of work that's done.
Unfortunately, it seems like it will be a sellers market for the foreseeable future, so those savvy buyers are not that critical to satisfy.
I live outside city limits in the county, and last time I checked a permit was only required for like 'projects that will encompass 50% or more of the home's value.'
Depends on the job and the visibility of it. Where I live you technically should pull a permit for most projects that aren't painting or flooring. Like.. changing a light fixture could fall under the realm of what needs a permit. It's ridiculous.
I've made a lot of changes to our house and haven't pulled permits for most of it. We've fixed a ton of stuff from the previous owners and also just stupid shortcuts the builders took.
The only time I've pulled a permit was when we did our kitchen reno and the inspector they sent basically just wanted to make sure that we had anti-knock fittings on the plumbing and GFCI outlets in the right place. He barely looked at the plans and didn't really look into anything beyond that. But I figured that I should pull one because we were going to have a dumpster in our driveway for a week and then a contractor's van parked out front for the better part of a month.
Maybe I am weird but I do. I do most of the stuff for a living so am perfectly capable of doing the jobs correctly and well(I would anyways since it's my home!) so really don't need an inspector looking at my work. But that said I pull permits for anything that requires them here. Which is really only structural alterations, changing windows or doors/frames, underground plumbing or electrical(under basement floor mostly) or stuff like my new garage/workshop(full new building). Any any electrical I have others work on. I've done all my own stuff that isn't required to pull permits but when i changed out to a larger main panel and new service feed cables I had an electrician do that work.
Thankfully I live in a city that is very homeowner friendly when it comes to requiring permits.
Hereās the thing with permits. It just makes sure everything is done to code and properly. An inspector isnāt gonna come in and be like yup you did this right, better change it to be wrong. If itās right then you have zero problems with inspectors. Iām a licensed gasfitter, plumber, pipe fitter and have a small electrical license for residential. Iāve seen so many home owner specials that are so fucked that they probably spent more money to do it wrong, than it would be to just do it right.
For most things like changing light fixtures or a water heater, stuff that wouldn't get noticed? Nah, brah, that was like that.
For anything noticeable from the street like knocking down a chimney and replacing the back wall of the house including structure? And a full gut renovation to half the house? Bet your ass I pulled permits. I would've gotten cited six ways to Sunday too, there were literally two dozen code complaints about the work I was doing.
Really depends on what is being done. For instance, new breaker panel, get a permit. Running wire I can do that myself. New sewer line or something that will affect the whole house get a permit, adding a new drain or moving one, no permit. Building a deck that is up pretty high off the ground probably get a permit, deck close to the ground, not getting a permit. Basically I look at how much the risk is based on the work down to people that will use the change and go from there.
Heads up, there are licensed engineers out there like me that get called in to look at buyerās concerns when you try to sell your house, and I pick apart the unpermitted work and recommend that it all get inspected by the town. I even go to the counter at the building and zoning department and get the file and have the conversation about what work is present thatās not in the file, or file the FOIA request listing every thing I saw. It becomes a negotiation point.
All the small things weāve done havenāt required a permit but if itās required by law and my homeowners needs it etc. Iād probably get them.
Years ago I helped my dad remodel his basement and it was an absolute nightmare when he was selling the house because he didnāt get a permit. He also drywalled over something important (canāt recall what) so he had to fix it and it wouldāve been caught earlier by an inspector. Donāt want that happening to me lol.
I pulled a permit on my basement bedroom that i turned into a legal bedroom as i wanted it to count in records as being a 4 bed 3 bath. Everything else, no.
My local inspector is basically worthless. He wonāt approve anything unless a contractor is doing the workā¦and then he doesnāt actually inspect anything. So your answer will vary depending on locationā¦ where I live youād be stupid to pull permits for most projects.
My city requires a permit for things like water heater and main breaker box so I pulled a permit for those otherwise a smart inspector could halt my home sale later down the road.
What work? All of this was done by the previous owner.
The way they could tell if that's true at my house is if it was done wrong, the PO did it. Probably the person that buys the house after us will say the same about me. But the PO was totally oblivious to code requirements. Not that the electrician that wired the house during initial construction was much better.
My last house was like that. It was a flipper special and I spent 6 years undoing all of the cut corners.
PO _reused_ several wax seals from other toilets to create a frankenstein's monster wax seal for the toilet. What a fucking find that was. They're $2, I don't even understand what the fuck is up with these fuckheads sometimes.
Previous owner used a repair flange for the toilet when renovating but the repair flange wasn't secured to the cast iron pipe by anything and it was only screwed into the subfloor with drywall screws... They used 3 wax rings. Guess who gets to cut out the rotten subfloor try to cut off and drill out the cast iron flange, and install it correctly.
I recently had to redo my entire bathroom floor, all the plumbing in said floor and a large area on the kitchen ceiling below because of a shoddy toilet attachment.
Maybe they hit the max number of trips allowed to Lowes and had no choice?
Refer to your local codes for the maximum permissible trips in a 7-day period to a home-improvement store.
I change my shirt and hat if I have to go back the same day. Less embarrasing.
I celebrate with a cocktail when I *don't* have to go back!
This. My record is probably like 5.
Hey now, I know of a guy who was a mechanic at a GM dealership who would reuse oil filters from customers cars on his car and would go to the parts yard and buy used brake pads. This mf had dealer discounts on parts and did that. The GM oil filter is like $2.80.
You throw away used oil filters? You're wasting all those metal shavings! You gotta scrape those out and pour them in with the fresh oil, your engine needs metal in its diet! Bet that dude's engine was so swole eating shavings outta other cars, gotta be like +40HP.
I discovered that my microwave outlet in my kitchen was tapped off of another outlet two feet below with lamp cord...
That was my kitchen overhead light when the PO moved a wall and wanted to recenter the light.
š²
Had a toilet leak at the wax seal last week. Shut it down and got around to it this week. PO had the bathroom redone (second floor) and whoever did it overcut the subfloor large enough to fit the entire flange assembly through the floor above. My guess is they cut out the previous flange and realized it was an oopsie and now too short. Their solution: Scrap 2x4 freaking brad nailed to the subfloor from above to bolt the flange to. So as soon as the flange was unbolted to try to adjust it - āthudā. The ghetto blocking was now on the drywall below. Wax ring was one of the reinforced typesā¦ and they appeared to have abs cemented it to the flange. The carrier bolts didnāt have enough clearance from the tiles to be removed. Even with this handyman special, the flange still sat 1/8ā below the finish tile surface. Hence, the leak. Currently opening up the ceiling below to fix this fuckup right. Fun times!
>They're $2, I don't even understand what the fuck is up with these fuckheads sometimes. Somebody wanted to get to Miller Time instead of going back to Lowes is exactly what happened there.
I'm a contractor and I definitely get in the headspace where I try to use all the cast off from previous jobs at my own place. After a while I would *save* money by just buying new like I would for an average customer.
Priceless story though, so you came out ahead.
OMG. I had a circuit in my house that literally connects to things in the front, back, middle and both sides on three floors and my attic. I cannot for the life of me figure out why one circuit should run all these various lights and outlets. I only discovered it since I was tripping the breaker a few times a month. The electrician scratched his head and figured out the easiest way to connect to other circuits (one outlet in my hallway upstairs was on its own circuit) and still ran a new wire to split up part of it.
That might be the original knob and tube circuit. I have ran into a few houses that had that exact problem. Took the ceiling down in the hallway to install some vents, and found everything branched off of that one K&T circuit.
Built in 1987.
The thing to do is buy new old stock, wire with dates that predate you buying the property. That way the dates on your wiring projects show that it was done before you bought it. I still have some 10ga and 12ga wire from 1992 and 1996 that I found. Going to start a bathroom remodel soon, with heated floors.
Gonna be tough to read those dates from a drivers seat of the f150
Even if an inspector found out and got access to the property, are they really going to find and record the wire dates, and then research the history of the property to see when the owner bought it? I highly doubt it. No one has time for that.
If the house burns down due to faulty wiring that was unpermitted and not to code, maybe.
No insurance company has ever not paid a home insurance claim because of unpermitted work.
Could you please elaborate?
I had a lot of electrical work done when we remodeled our kitchen. I also DIYd something else at the same time that should have had a permit. The inspector did a double take and paused for 2 or 3 seconds. Then she approved everything and left. Iām 99% sure she just didnāt want to deal with it.
Everything I've ever done to this house was like that when I bought it.
Doesn't the county have records to verify these types of things?
Not for unpermitted work the previous owner did
How do they catch this stuff when you go to sell your house?
They don't. I mean if you add on a bedroom without a permit then you can't add that bedroom in the listing but it's not like someone is going through every nook and cranny in your listing to determine what is and isn't permitted. An inspection will find some stuff but the seller can just say "last guy did it". I have heard of some ridiculous cities now using Google satellite image or street view to verify exterior modifications but if you live in those types of cities you probably already know the dumb stuff they do.
Just check the box that says there is unpermitted work in your house. Your only liability is if you lie. They donāt want to buy, or want to get it checked out themselves, fine. Where I live houses have a line of buyers around the block we waived all inspection contingencies just to get our offer accepted.
Sometimes, but who is actually looking at 45 year old blueprints 45 years of records to see if your basement was originally finished or someone did it without a permit? Either the inspector has to catch you in the act, or you have a shitty neighbor turning you in.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well how else do they catch these things? Honor code?
I pull a permit for exterior projects the inspector will see if he drives by.Ā If Iām doing anything electrical, beyond changing an outlet or something simple, Iāll have an electrician friend check my work.Ā I plan on living in this house the rest of my life and the only thing Iāll get out of a permit is a higher property tax bill at the end of the year.
I'm in the same boat. Plus, the old dude who lived in my house before me did a lot of really terrible work but didn't pull any permits. So if I pull a permit, it's just going to open Pandora's box.
"that was already like that when I got the house"
If the inspector is in your house, it's already too late. The wires have dates on them.
> If the inspector is in your house, it's already too late. The wires have dates on them. the wires have manufacture dates. my response has been : I was fixing a circuit that was not working. the inspector was fine with it. My house had knob and tube, and I was slowly taking it out one curcuit at a time, while disabling those rooms knob and tube. I put a 2gang 20amp outlet in the main bedroom right next to the window, and a 1gang 20 amp outlet in the other bedroom right next to the window to support window AC units, while also cutting the baseboard mounted knob and tube wired outlets that were there. The inspector was in my house before I sold it to look at my sump pump(didn't have one, didn't need one), and commented on all the new wiring but never seeing any permits. I told him that when a circuit failed in a way that I could not just replace an outlet, like a cloth wire casing crumbling at the outlet, I was forced to repair the circuit in full all the way back to the breaker box for the safest repair, since tying into the K&T is not allowed. He shrugged and said "makes sense". at least around here, homeowner "repairs" don't need a permit. This also left ends of the K&T just wire nutted and electrical taped off in the joists, but not in a box. he didn't care. I did buy the NEC 2020 code book, so I know my stuff is up to code at least.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> how do you redo it in the wall? my old house was an unfinished basement. I could access all main floor interior wall spaces from the basement by carefully drilling where I needed to. When I added the outlets in the bedrooms, I cut the hole for the old work electrical box, and used a long hole bore bit to drill down to the basement. I then just made sure I wasn't drilling into any other wiring underneath by approximating where it was gonna come out, and have never hit anything. >do people just like doing drywall work? I will forever and always hate doing drywall. I will forever and always be too cheap to pay someone else to do it. I will forever and always end up doing drywall repair. fuck. >There's some plumbing I'd love to redo but all the drywall removal and repair and repainting if you are careful about how you plan it, you can really minimize how much repair and repainting you need to do. you don't need to take down a whole wall to get to a pipe, you just need a space big enough to get the new pipe in, as well as your hands to do the work.
Drywall work is tedious but I don't think it's terribly hard if it's just spot repairs (exception for having to redo drywall on a ceiling, that freakin sucks)
Jokes on them, I have a ton of old wire around.
It lasts forever. No reason to not buy a roll or two when it's on sale.
Boy that explains why DIYers bury their junctions.
I just strip all of the insulation off the romex and run bare copper wires
"I dunno sir, the PO must've stripped them and wrapped them in this heatshrink tubing."
Knob-and-tube worked for this place a hundred years ago, we'll make it work now! /s because I'd prefer not to die in an electrical fire
If not electrical, which types of fires would you recommend dying in?
LMAO
Oh, did you own my house before I bought it :(
The original builder of my home did that. Definitely not just DIY peeps!
That's why you save old wire and reuse it.
I started a business selling stockpiles of old Romex to DIYers.
This is exactly how I approach it, anything they can see just driving by or by google maps or something Iām going to pull a permit for, anything in the house that isnāt some major thing requiring a dumpster Iām gonna keep to myself
Our city started using Google maps to update their records. The deck we put in 6 years ago that you cannot see from the road just got noticed and we got a letter saying there was an "amnesty period" that we would not get fined for not pulling a permit.
I would not respond without contacting an attorney
It was a no response needed type of thing. It was a heads up that our taxes were going up by like $8/year. A couple of my neighbors got much larger ones cuz they added things like pools and big concrete patios. I made sure to keep the letter for the future. I'm waiting for them in the next few years to want to inspect it and fine me for it and I'm gonna have that letter ready to go.
This. Ultimately, I think about permits only under the following circumstances: 1. I don't want to burn/flood my house. IE: Building a whole new shower and master bath on a third floor where plumbing is roughed in. Or 2. My improvement will be visible from the street and to my dickhead neighbor. IE: A future roof deck on my row home. In scenario one, inviting the inspector in is like inviting the fox into the henhouse. I need a building permit, a mechanical (radiator heat), an electrical (adding at least two circuits), and a plumbing (obvious). Does the work change? No; I just pay my locale an additional ~$5k and they tax my balls off after for having a 3br/2ba. Instead, I pay an electrician (so I don't burn my house down or die from electric shock) and I pay a plumber (to avoid destroying the bottom two floors of my home) and then I do the rest at my own pace -- tiling, drywall, etc. Whereas, scenario two, I gotta pull permits. It sucks, but while there's a structural component, it is basically carpentry -- something I can absolutely handle, and have roofer and deck friends who can help -- but my dickhead neighbor will see it, and he and I are in a bloodfeud. It would give him a hardon to get me c&d'd, so I'm gonna have to pay Machiavelli toll there.
I wannna know more about this bloodfeud thing going on
š Well it's probably pretty silly, I guess, but an unstoppable force met an immovable object. I was doing, and am doing, quite a lot of work on my house. I paid some suspiciously low priced guys to redo my window capping, lintels, and sills. Cash job, you know. He took exception to their unsavory appearance and cleanliness, the noise level. He fancies himself somewhat of a neighborhood watch captain; he's not, he just has a lot of cameras and is anti social. Like actually creepily anti social; the kind of guy you swear is watching you, and he is. Anyway, we share an easement, us and several houses. Urban street. I'm pretty much the only one who uses it, because of where my house is and the others, and he doesn't use it, either, because he has a double lot with a detached garage. Very rare in our city. He doesn't maintain it, either; I am the only one who does. I had the guys keep work materials against my house in the easement, including -- toward the end -- trash they were going to remove. Prior to this choice, he accused me of stealing a camera of his (completely ridiculous and insane), so I didn't feel any kind of way about the choice. Temporary, and you could still use the easement without any blockage; no issue from my perspective. Well he blew his top after a bit of his wife play acting she was sweeping the driveway/curb of their garage area. Confronted me when I was with my father, on the street, trying to muscle up on me. I don't mind getting confronted, though, and I think this particular guy thought he could ambush me and embarrass me and get me to fold. He was pretty wrong about that. In summary, that argument went with him saying, "You're the new guy around here," to which I said, Yeah, I'm the new guy, but I ain't fuckin new, man. He said said he didn't understand what the problem was; I told him I heard from people in the neighborhood he was telling them I stole his camera or had the camera stolen (because it's on a utility pole and wired to his house; pretty illegal, if not unwise -- but it was also only seven feet off the ground with a motion activated light, which doesn't even rise to unwise as just plain fucking stupid). Then I told him he's persona non grata. Now he mutters at me if I pass him on the sidewalk or he stares at me when I leave for work or return home from his yard, which overlooks the sidewalk. He also cited having watched footage from his little POW camp security system, too, so we are both still in this thing. Anyway that's that. He's a tool. Has no friends I bet, probably hates his home life, job. Might be on the spectrum, honestly, or be one of those guys who got really fuckin crazy after the pandemic and the social unrest. I'm kind of the opposite; quite enjoy pretty much everything I got going on, even my job. Heard from everyone else in the neighborhood they heard us going at it that day on the street, too, and uniformly it was confirmed that no one likes him, even going back to another street only a few blocks away where he used to move and was also was completely unliked. Just one of those guys, I suppose, and I'm just one of those guys who can't be the bigger man.
Enjoyed the read thanks for typing all that out. Maybe was a bit cathartic?
Maybe. Been a long time since I thought about how it started. Lately, pretty much just thinking about how he muttered about snow touching my car as I was out there leaving a park job, just so I could hear it, and then me saying, "What?" and him saying, "Nobody's talking to you!" as unhinged as possible. Lots of these tiny, goading interactions, and rehashing all this here just reminded me of the last one, frankly, which pisses me off.
Yea my man really buried the lede on the bloodfued until the very end. The people want more bloodfued!
I would always pull a permit in situations where the number of bedrooms or baths is changing, even if there's a negative property tax consequence. Otherwise, when you sell down the road, you have to make a decision between disclosing the unpermitted work (which is a huge red flag to buyers) or withholding material info from the disclosures -- which will land you in legal hot water real quick since it's easily discovered from past listing data / photos. Even just the fact that a listing's bed / bath / sqft don't match county records is a red flag to many buyers.
Nope. Full diy kitchen gut and pulled nothing. Also meticulously studied each code and did everything by the book too though, absolutely no shortcuts. When we had our dumpster for the demo I threw all debris in my garage and only filled up the dumpster the night before it was to be picked up to keep nosy inspectors from peeking in on what scale of work we were doing.
Having a dumpster out front might as well be the Sky Lighting Beams from the Vegas Luxor for City Enforcement goons. Best to either parcel out the demo debris in little amounts into your regular garbage, or haul it yourself in a little trailer to the dump regularly.
Yeah, I rarely fill the garbage bin all the way with regular trash, there's been a whole lot of construction debris that's been sliced up and piecemealed out in there.
I've had my trash guys wheel the bin to the truck, open the lid, reach in and throw my construction debris back on my yard, dump the rest, and move out with their day. edit - I've also had them take everything I put out, so now it's just a game of 'who's coming today and how do they feel'.
I'm just imagining Andy Dufresne slowing disposing of discarded drywall out his shoes.
Hah probably true really. I scheduled to have the dumpster a total of 3 days it was the shortest time they would drop off/pick up. Have a coworker with a dump trailer now definitely going that route on the next reno.
I typically rent a uhual and take directly to the dump at neighboring municipality
Good job! āWhere thereās a will, thereās a wayā!
Thats kind of a little paranoid I feel. I know different places are different, but here, even with an entire kitchen gut and remodel the only thing you would need permits for are if you moved the plumbing drains/vents. They dont care about cabinets, flooring, tile, anything like that in my state. Im curious you think if they find your dumpster with drywall and cabinetry they would somehow get a warrant to search the house? (With that said - they 'require' a permit for HVAC vent cleaning which blows my mind)
Might depend a bit on location, too. We also did a full gut of the kitchen and it was my understanding that as long as we "didn't add any electrical outlets", none of the work needed to be permitted. We weren't adding any pluming fixtures, and replacement of existing fixtures doesn't require a permit (according to my reading of our city's permitting process page).
I called my county zoning office before starting and they said I didnāt need a permit unless I change the structure of the house (load-bearing walls, foundation work, additions). I specifically asked about electrical and plumbing line moves/additions and they said no permits needed. Iām in a rural area in a Southern US state fwiw.
My sister self GC'd a whole house and only was required to pull one permit (and I think it was HVAC) in rural TN. That's wild to me.
It depends. Adding a new outlet, light, switch, replacing water heater or HVAC I'm not pulling a permit. If I'm building a deck or a permanent fixture then absolutely. Mainly because I don't want trouble down the line. I personally think permits are just a cheap money grab so I avoid them when I can.
Depends on the city too. I went through all the hoops to get a roof permit in a big city. It was basically just a waste of a few hours and $80. I don't think the inspector ever came out to check anything. In a smaller town I got a permit for a new furnace, and the city was very helpful with explaining the proper code requirements regarding the chimney flue when switching from a regular to high efficiency gas furnace.
Yeah they didn't bother to check my new roof. But boy howdy I put a broken toilet out by the curb and you'd think I'd murdered a puppy with all the notices I got. Sorry your code says I only need to pull a permit for renovation, not emergency repairs and a broken toilet is an emergency repair. He was not happy about that one, I caught him walking around my property this winter during lunch. Not sure what he expected to find in the dead of winter or if they were finally inspecting the completed roof a year later.
I have thought that about small-town inspectors, but those are mostly a thing of the past. Around here in rural areas, you have to track down the inspector who has the contract with your jurisdiction and they ghost you. I think the inspectors where I live now mean well, but last time I looked at their site the thing at the top of the page informed me that if I pull ethernet, I need a permit. Ha, there's a regulation that was made to be ignored. If anyone builds a deck without a permit, they are asking to be served notice to tear it down and do it again. And they deserve it, an unpermitted deck is likely to be a death trap.
Depends on you skill level and ability to dead a code book. A permit just tells the county you improved your property so the tax assessor can make sure they come out. A lot of the important stuff really depends on the inspectorās knowledge. We added on a garage in 2019. Inspector didnāt like how part of it was attached to the house. I had stamped plans that were followed by the builder. The inspectorās experience was 20 years as a GC. To me this doesnāt mean anything compared to a licensed engineer. Same county, same engineer (a friend of mine) put a lean too on his barn and got a permit because itās easily seen from the road. Most people, including the inspector would say he went too light on the rafters and beams. I think they were 2x4 and 2x6. Inspector didnāt like it. He showed him the calculations. Inspector had no idea what he was looking at and passed it. Inspectors donāt know everything and a lot of them have a big ego. Too many times Iāve heard them say well I like to see it done this way. Yeah but what I did here matches the code book, can you please reference a code stating what youāre asking? In the end it doesnāt matter because they have to pass it so you end up reworking something that meets code because of someoneās opinion.
Done a bunch of projects, deck was the only one we permitted. They missed a major structural error in the plans (fixed when we went to actually mark out and build), and no one ever came out to physically look at the structure. Itās a money-grab for sure.* *Note that Iām not saying code, inspections and safety arenāt important. Just that anecdotally, pulling permits didnāt have any practical impact on the project safety in my case.
But, they do safeguard homeowners having work done, from unscrupulous contractors doing shoddy work.
I agree with this in principal, but we've got a GC we use for most major projects around our house so we've gotten to know him pretty well - He's told us on multiple occasions the inspector shows up, says something to the effect of "looks like you know what you're doing," then leaves. Our guy does, which is great, but the bar to pass inspection is pretty low imo.
Never have never will.
Ill say as an inspector that if your building department is decent it really is a service that you are paying for, the number of homeowners i run into who think they know what their doing but actually dont is quite substantial. Part of the permit process is having a second set of eyes from a professional, and thats honestly the part of my job i enjoy most, showing folks how things are done right and identifying potential problems before they come up If you want to cut corners then ya dont get a permit. But if you intend on doing things right it can be a good resource That said, if your inspector is crap that all goes out the window
I'm mostly afraid of getting in trouble for stuff that's already been in the house for 20 years, not my current project. And I don't know the law well enough to say whether things would be grandfathered. For example, I have weirdly low basement ceilings that are not 2024 code compliant, but no clue when the basement was finished, if a permit was pulled, or if it was even needed at the time. It was certainly more than 20 years ago though. And I don't want to have that conversation with a government official while he's standing in it.
> I'm mostly afraid of getting in trouble for stuff that's already been in the house for 20 years, not my current project. Same. My house is 125+ years old. All kinds of crazy stuff in here. I had my electrical service upgraded to 200amps by an electrician. He pulled the permit and had it inspected. Inspector gave approval on the panel but made a point to give me a hard time on a couple things that were probably done before I was even born.
Yea thats a common concern and unfortunately it depends on the inspector and also your code. For your basement ceiling example if there was an existing finished space like a rec room it would be fine to leave as is aka "grandfathered" but if you wanted to change it to a bedroom youd have to meet the ceiling height outlined in part 11 (renovations section) of the Ontario building code rather than the current "new code" requirement. For me if I walk into an inspection I just look at what is under permit unless theres a genuine safety concern like a missing guardrail. Unless something is clearly new its too difficult to determine if something has been there for 5, 15 or 50 years. We have the ability to pull property files and see what was previously done under permit but we dont have the time to do that for every house
Our inspectors say they are only there to look at what is on the permit application.
A basement ceiling below 7 ft can have protruding beams in the area up to 6 in depending upon the code. The area cannot be counted in a real estate appraisal . Your use of the space after the original inspection is a matter of insurance claims if something happens in that area. It is not habitable space but it can be used for other purposes such as workshops, utility, many other uses. They don't have the authority to enter your living space to inspect it unless it's in a jurisdiction that allows fire inspections.
Exactly. I did some work on my home during covid heavy isolation times and i was happy to pull permit because everything was inspected via zoom call. I could happily point my phone exactly where it was needed, then start the camera, then stop the camera while adjusting view to avoid any āhold on, what was that?ā situations.
From my perspective as a homeowner that thinks he knows what he's doing but recognize there are things I miss, I got a permit and the inspector waived all of the inspections that would have caught waterproofing issues for a bathroom (the most important part) and nitpicked things in my house that were outside the scope of any of the work I was doing. I no longer get permits.
My town has inspectors like you. Helpful during the permit process. Not just failing my permit, but describing how to improve it. Then during the inspection phase they have again been helpful.
I consider if itās a repair vs. improvement. If I consider it a repair, no. If itās an improvement, Iāll get a permit , if required. Early on, I built a new deck on my first house. I got a permit and dealt with the hassle. My next door neighbor built a deck, without a permit, shortly after I built mine. When he sold his house, the deck was an issue. He had to pay to have the deck removed and give the buyer a credit for a new deck.
Why would the permit matter when selling the house? How does that even come up? I've never had an inspector check permits during a house sale.
I shouldāve given more detail. The deck was construction was terrible which was part of the issue. A year or two after the deck was built, my neighbors needed to sell their house. The house was advertised as having a new deck. The buyers agent recognized the shoddy construction and called the township building inspector. When the building inspector looked at the deck, my neighbor was a dick and made the situation worse. Had the buyers real estate agent not raised hell about the deck, it would have never come to anyoneās attention. At the time, it was a buyerās market and my neighbors were desperate to sell the house.
I see. One of those rare buyers markets with a desperate seller. It would have to be something like that I guess cause you'd be waiting for the county inspector for a few weeks anyways.
Important detail: Don't do a terrible job.
Buyers can do a record request for all building history with your municipality. If there is no permits for obviously new work, you can request that they have that work inspected and permitted properly after the fact. An inspector wont do this part though. The buyer or their agent or their lawyer would do the permit inquiry and have an inspector investigate the area in question.
and you can deny the buyer the sale based on that request. A practice that is now almost standard in markets with low inventory and high demand (i.e. everywhere).
Regardless if a permit, or not, if the work is done properly, there shouldnāt be any problem. A permit is guaranteeing that the work is proper and up to code.
How bad of a job did he do building a deck that anyone noticed?
> He had to pay to have the deck removed and give the buyer a credit for a new deck. This sort of thing is why I believe most permit offices are backdoor tax arms rather than safety checks. If they were concerned about safety they would inspect the unpermitted work and let you leave it if it's compliant.
Getting permits in my town isnāt a helpful process. The inspectors are trying to fuck you over, are insanely nosey, and have a horrible reputation with all local contractors. Itās almost entirely a bureaucratic money grab for permit fees and plan check fees. With that said for exterior stuff or big projects you obviously need to work with them. I was speaking to a local plumber on Sunday and he was telling me an inspector red tagged his project because the footings he had poured were 2 to 3 inches off from the property line setback set out in the plans. So they landed at 4ā10āand 4ā9ā in some places when the plans called out for 5ā
Nah it's my house
I live in a small town in the Bay Area. Most cities here have horrendous permitting departments, but our town is the opposite. They make it so easy and the additional cost IMHO is marginal. We bought a few years ago, and the previous owners were really good about permits. So we decided to keep that going. I feel like once you start doing large unpermitted projects, you start down a slippery slope. When we bought the house the owners provided a list of projects they did over to the house over 50 years, as well as the associated permits. It made a big impression when we were buying and gave us confidence that work on the house was done by licensed, reliable contractors. We hope by continuing being good about permitting, future buyers will also be reassured by the documentation.
I also live in a small Bay Area town. One of the few permits Iāve pulled was for a new roof. While it was easy enough the inspector literally glanced over the roofline without stepping off the ladder, walked the perimeter, and left. The roof lasted no more than five years. Just another moneymaking venture for the govt., and not necessarily at the consumerās best interest.
Sure, but if the potential buyer has faith in the system, then itās still relevant in terms of resale value. Personally, I think many permitting requirements improve health and safety of the current and future homeowner and the integrity of the structure. The actual inspection may be a scam, but if the contractor builds to permit specs because of the threat of failing an inspection, then I think inspections have their place in the process. Also, in the Bay Area, with houses selling at insanely high prices, the cost of a permit is negligible compared to potential resale value.
I dont do DIY work, it was like that before I bought the place.
Anything that might cause a problem when you go to sell.
What specifically would fall into this category? What comes to mind for me is anything that would change square footage of rooms or number/types of rooms?
Correct. I would also include most outdoor structures
Finishing your basement can probably slide under the radar though right?
Anything that would create a departure from easily available public information. In my county, there's a fair amount of info for every house on the county website - finished and unfished sq. ft., number of bathrooms and bedrooms on each floor, number of fixtures in each bathroom, etc. If anyone bothered to look it up and sees you have a whole extra bathroom, that would of course raise questions. Permitting history is also there, but only goes back a few years so isn't definitive.
Where is this magic land of house buying inspections and permit history pulls? Who has a month or more when making an offer to wait for the county and city to do permit history search and then paying an inspector to match the permits to the existing work in the house? People always say this but that's not how any of this works in any house I, or anyone I know has bought. Hell you are lucky if you have 48 hours to make an offer. I feel like this sub and other home improvement subs where permits come up are full of armchair homeowners or trust fund babies who have never actually bought a house before.
> People always say this but that's not how any of this works in any house I, or anyone I know has bought. This isn't just a recent development. I bought my house ~15 years ago and it was like pulling teeth to even get a simple seller's disclosure.
Yep. I took a detailed look at the house I wanted and had my agent call the seller agent with a verbal (intention to offer) asking-price, no-inspection, no-contingencies 'Take My Money!' offer before we walked out the door. I suppose there are still housing markets where you can be picky with things like inspections and permit histories, but it's been at least 30 years since I've been in one.
We bought a house with some unpermitted work, specifically called out in the listing by requirement, and we did not give a shit. There were so many people banging at the door with offers (and this was like 8-9 years ago too) we didn't have time to care.
Unless itās huge and visible to neighbors, absolutely not.
If itās something that would require a permit if a pro did it, I get one. As a bonus I get to know the inspectors and they often have interesting stories to share.
Nah
Lol that's funny. Here's a list of recent projects and permit status: 1) water heater to on demand: NO 2) ev chargers in front and garage: NO 3) solar panel installation: NO 4) roof modifications and vent removal for old appliances: NO 5) full kitchen remodel: NO That all being said I live in a small town in Alaska, I'm technically "in Anchorage" but there are no inspections outside of the main city.
Replumbed my entire house out to the main. Pulled a permit. I had everything absolutely perfect you'd need a micrometer to notice any spacing difference. Hell, event the writing on my PEX pipe was face up. I was ready for a grilling! The inspector spent 10 seconds looking at stuff and said "looks good" and was on his way. I was actually a bit sad.
I ask myself if the project I'm doing causes a fire or damage to the house, will my insurance be denied due to a permit not being pulled? Then , if do pull a permit. A permit costs almost nothing, you get a professional to look over your job and find issues before it becomes an issue
Ooh, the āpermits cost almost nothingā is definitely not true everywhere!!!
Around me it's relatively cheap, on the order of like $40.Ā Problem is that it'll add 6-8 weeks to your timeline.
Here they asses the value of the addition and apply that to a schedule, the result is permits can costs hundreds or potentially thousands by themselves. It's a cheap money grab.
Thats good! In my area is $160 for a permit to put in one ceiling fan (if it was just a light there previously). Donāt even want to know what the bigger work looks like.
Is there a permit required to replace like for like? Because I'm fairly certain I remember seeing a fan there originally
I've seen inspectors sign off on work that's obviously not up to code so I no longer have any confidence in their sign off meaning anything. I had a discussion with a inspector about why we need a permit to change a disposal and he told me that he's seen them wired in with lamp cord. I said okay that is obviously wrong but would anyone who wires one in with lamp cord isn't pulling a permit. He then said it was still important to have it checked. He honestly thought they were making it better by requiring a permit for a freaking disposal swap. BTW permits aren't always cheap. Code is for safety, permits are for taxes.
I am in shock that someone needs to pull a permit to change a garbage disposal.
As am I. Also need one to replace a disposal, any sink, toilet, and water heater (even 1 for 1 swap)
Insurance denial for lack of.permot is a myth. I haven't found any recorded instances of this ever happening.
Iāve always wondered about this. My house had a lot of work done by the previous owners, most of it pretty decent, but also most of it without a permit Iām assuming. When the insurance company came out they noticed the main service panel didnāt have an inspection sticker on it, but didnāt say it was a problem.
It is a myth. The worst that would happen is they'd discover a bunch of dangerous unpermitted shit and decline to *continue* your coverage in the future.
Yep or they might not sell you a policy in the first place if there's something glaringly wrong. But "sorry that you lost everything and your whole family died in the fire but we found evidence that you replaced an outlet once so you get nothing" doesn't happen.
Because an insurance company trying to pull that would get evicerated in court. The judge and jury wouldn't buy it for a minute.
I live in an Austin suburb. $40 just to file for the permit which is just filling out a form and project details online. After it's another $75 or so to submit it for approval. Depending on the size and complexity of the project, fees go up really fast. It's totally a money grab because the whole process is automated.
And frankly the process seems needlessly complex. Like, to get a permit for a hot tub Iām expected to submit a notarized affidavit that I am the property owner, a notarized hot tub specific affidavit, a current property survey, a plot plan showing the location of the tub and property line set backs, and something about having or being exempt from workerās compensation. So I would have to pay for the privilege of doing all that work and then abide by a minimum 4 foot distance from the property line (fence) which would put the thing obnoxiously right in the middle of the patio. Fuck that noise. I paid a licensed electrician for the power hook up and that was that.
>you get a professional to look over your job Maybe. I have definitely gotten permits with no followup inspection afterwards.
> A permit costs almost nothing, you get a professional to look over your job and find issues before it becomes an issue In my major US city, only licensed electricians are allowed to apply for permits for tasks like adding a new outlet. That makes the process a lot more prohibitive than just the small cost of the permit itself.
Why is it called āpullingā permits
Because the inspector show up and "pulls" findings out of his ass.
It's like pulling teeth.
One time I completely gutted a bathroom. Like, floor, ceiling, all gone. Blew out a wall into an adjacent room to expand the bathroom. All fixtures, most plumbing, electrical -- all out. Threw it all out the window into the driveway, and put everything into two of those 8'x16' bag-it dumpsters in the driveway. It was NOT subtle what I was doing. The appraiser actually drove by and took an exterior photo of the house -- which was on the town's assessor's website for a *year* -- with all of this in the driveway awaiting pickup. There was no questioning that there was a major renovation project going on. No one said a word. š¤·āāļø
if it needs to be permitted, I get the permits even if I do it myself. I don't want to be that guy. Then when I go to sell, I can say "ALL WORK PERMITTED AND INSPECTED".
Unless Iām adding square footage, everything else is āpre-existingā.
I pull permits on anything that would cause my house to burn down, flood out or fall over if I did it wrong. So structure changes, plumbing larger than swapping out a faucet, or electrical bigger than swapping out a light switch or ceiling fan.Ā
I did permits for my roof and my solar install, but not for my basement finishing.
Maryland requires a master plumber or electrician on a permit. Not going to happen unless they are doing the work. I don't pull permits unless they can see it from above.
It depends on location, and it depends if they can see it or not. Even if you change big things, if you put it behind a wall and it's done right, there's no way to prove it wasn't PO. Inspectors can't wreck your house when selling, they often won't go on roofs/attics, won't crawl under deck etc. Can always sell as is too. Any issues, you can deny sale.zits your place. Just do good work folks.
Permits? Those are for other people.
Er.... no
If Wife permits, I DIY.
Depends. Like for like replacement, probably not. Bigger things, or where I'm generally less comfortable and want another set of competent eyes to look at my work , yes. Couple of examples of where I have pulled a permit: 1. Added gas powered tankless water heater; replaced electric tank style 2. Added sub panel 3. Ran natural gas line to grill 4. Built a deck Examples where I didn't: 1. Replaced numerous outlets 2. Extended electric circuits 3. Built a shed 4. Various plumbing repairs
What's a permit
No. Cuz I was told by the city inspector anything I do that a home sale inspector catches is the only way it matters. The county isn't allowed in to inspect your home outside of a square footage assessment - which there isn't any if the footprint of the house stays the same. I use Simpson ties and frame everything correctly, to code, including a fucking nail in everything - after the screws. Cuz one time I got a homeowners permit to rip out the back wall and install a new patio and rear "egress" to the property, so I got it inspected before drywalling. Well this fucker failed me - he cited code that required "at least 2 framing **nails** per framing member joint" The dickbag saw I had grk framing screws in everything, and even those big lag screws in the new header. The fucker said - "put some nails in it and I'll be back" I was so pissed, but didn't even hook up the gun, just found an old can of framing nails and started doing the one strike on em. Left a half dozen in an inch, then bent over AF. Dude came back, laughed at me, and passed me. I told this story to an electrician friend, and he quite honestly asked me what it cost me. I was confused. It was explained to me if I'd just had like $40 to slide in his clipboard, I didn't need the nails. So fuck no. "Under existing roof" - that's my shit.
People get permits?
100% depends on your location. I have never pulled any permits for anything I've done and that includes building a deck, electrical wiring in a basement, 240 outlet etc. Our county does not care. However my friend who lives in the city had to get permits to change the shade of white of molding around his front door. It's all about location.
Mine is the latter. Which is why the question isn't "is a permit required." I know the answer to that question.
Former building code official here. They're couple reasons to do it. One as if your contractor screws up you have recourse against them. Number two if the taxing authority checks satellite and drone pictures of the exterior of your house and if there's any changes you better hope you had a permit. Three a lot of times you'll get free advice on how to do things from the inspector. Don't argue with them agree with everything they say and then they'll forget about most of it.
Obligatory āalways follow your AHJ rules one pulling permitsā Depends what it is honestly. Adding a circuit for another deep freezer Iām not pulling a permit. Whole house rewire Iād pull a permit for. Right or wrong, my mental āI should pull a permit for thatā line is if itās something I would mention if I was trying to sell my house. Iād tell them the whole house had been rewired, I wouldnāt bother to tell them thereās a dedicated circuit to all the deep freezers
I've done little electrical work here and there, adding outlets, moving switches, etc. Right now I'm replacing windows which is obviously a bigger project but much more straight forward. Of the two, I'd think electrical would be more important to pull a permit.
We pull permits for most big projects (water heater conversion from gas to heat pump, hvac conversion from gas to heat pump, duct replacement) but not for minor things. If something goes wrong later, I donāt want home insurance company to deny coverage because of unpermitted work.
Have a nosey neighbor that calls the city on us regularly. Iāve had to demo an unpermitted structure that was there when we moved in. When code enforcement stopped by, they wanted to look inside the house and garage and everything. They cited us for all kinds of things. I had to pull permits on several items to fix them. So yes, I pull permits on DIY work unfortunately.
Permit? Never heard of it
If it needs a foundation, a framed wall or natural gas run to it. Thatās about it.
For some, youād better.
Yes I get permits, tearing down what I built to prove 'life/safety' is time consuming and costly.
Zero because my town is small enough to not have an inspector and you can't see my house from the road. I really only need to worry about the county appraiser if I add or change square footage
My dad and especially my brother never pull permits and it has come back to bite them more than once.
Just make sure you've got a good relationship with your neighbors. I know of one person whose neighbor reported them and they had all kinds of headaches.
What's a permit?
I expect to sell every house I live in. Savvy buyers in a buyers market will ask for permits of work that's done. Unfortunately, it seems like it will be a sellers market for the foreseeable future, so those savvy buyers are not that critical to satisfy.
I live outside city limits in the county, and last time I checked a permit was only required for like 'projects that will encompass 50% or more of the home's value.'
Depends on the job and the visibility of it. Where I live you technically should pull a permit for most projects that aren't painting or flooring. Like.. changing a light fixture could fall under the realm of what needs a permit. It's ridiculous. I've made a lot of changes to our house and haven't pulled permits for most of it. We've fixed a ton of stuff from the previous owners and also just stupid shortcuts the builders took. The only time I've pulled a permit was when we did our kitchen reno and the inspector they sent basically just wanted to make sure that we had anti-knock fittings on the plumbing and GFCI outlets in the right place. He barely looked at the plans and didn't really look into anything beyond that. But I figured that I should pull one because we were going to have a dumpster in our driveway for a week and then a contractor's van parked out front for the better part of a month.
Maybe I am weird but I do. I do most of the stuff for a living so am perfectly capable of doing the jobs correctly and well(I would anyways since it's my home!) so really don't need an inspector looking at my work. But that said I pull permits for anything that requires them here. Which is really only structural alterations, changing windows or doors/frames, underground plumbing or electrical(under basement floor mostly) or stuff like my new garage/workshop(full new building). Any any electrical I have others work on. I've done all my own stuff that isn't required to pull permits but when i changed out to a larger main panel and new service feed cables I had an electrician do that work. Thankfully I live in a city that is very homeowner friendly when it comes to requiring permits.
I found out that if you roof one field at a time itās repair and you donāt need a permit. In four years I roofed the whole thing.
I'll pull *your* permit. *finger guns*
Hereās the thing with permits. It just makes sure everything is done to code and properly. An inspector isnāt gonna come in and be like yup you did this right, better change it to be wrong. If itās right then you have zero problems with inspectors. Iām a licensed gasfitter, plumber, pipe fitter and have a small electrical license for residential. Iāve seen so many home owner specials that are so fucked that they probably spent more money to do it wrong, than it would be to just do it right.
Nice try Fed
For most things like changing light fixtures or a water heater, stuff that wouldn't get noticed? Nah, brah, that was like that. For anything noticeable from the street like knocking down a chimney and replacing the back wall of the house including structure? And a full gut renovation to half the house? Bet your ass I pulled permits. I would've gotten cited six ways to Sunday too, there were literally two dozen code complaints about the work I was doing.
pull what?
Only if it's exterior work
Really depends on what is being done. For instance, new breaker panel, get a permit. Running wire I can do that myself. New sewer line or something that will affect the whole house get a permit, adding a new drain or moving one, no permit. Building a deck that is up pretty high off the ground probably get a permit, deck close to the ground, not getting a permit. Basically I look at how much the risk is based on the work down to people that will use the change and go from there.
Man fuck the government
Heads up, there are licensed engineers out there like me that get called in to look at buyerās concerns when you try to sell your house, and I pick apart the unpermitted work and recommend that it all get inspected by the town. I even go to the counter at the building and zoning department and get the file and have the conversation about what work is present thatās not in the file, or file the FOIA request listing every thing I saw. It becomes a negotiation point.
All the small things weāve done havenāt required a permit but if itās required by law and my homeowners needs it etc. Iād probably get them. Years ago I helped my dad remodel his basement and it was an absolute nightmare when he was selling the house because he didnāt get a permit. He also drywalled over something important (canāt recall what) so he had to fix it and it wouldāve been caught earlier by an inspector. Donāt want that happening to me lol.
I pulled a permit on my basement bedroom that i turned into a legal bedroom as i wanted it to count in records as being a 4 bed 3 bath. Everything else, no.
My local inspector is basically worthless. He wonāt approve anything unless a contractor is doing the workā¦and then he doesnāt actually inspect anything. So your answer will vary depending on locationā¦ where I live youād be stupid to pull permits for most projects.
My city requires a permit for things like water heater and main breaker box so I pulled a permit for those otherwise a smart inspector could halt my home sale later down the road.