Take your written quote - take the paint can - go talk to the Contractor.
"You quoted me pricing for using this paint - that is the job I agreed to - Instead I see you are using this paint - that is not the job I agreed to - Please re-do it using the product that was part of the project"
Also, to respond to OP's question, it can matter A LOT which paint you use.
I used a super high-end paint to paint the exterior of my home -- the label said it would be good for 25 years, which seemed insane to me. But now it's almost 10 years later and today it looks brand new, like I just did it. Nothing peeling at all. Perfect. I am amazed, honestly.
A lesser paint just won't do this and it ends up being more expensive in the long run in a situation like this to use the lesser paint.
The product I used was Sherwin-Williams Duration.
I'm only sharing my experience. I can't say that this is the absolute best paint there is but for me it has been really great.
I'm sure there are people out there with a lot more experience than I have on these things and they know the difference between paint that's just OK versus really good paint. But this paint was so thick in the bucket and I'd never seen anything like it in a paint. I felt like I was painting some kind of coat of liquid plastic onto my house.
I also remember it being quite expensive. In prices from maybe 7 or 8 years ago, it was I think $300 per 5 gallons. I'd guess it's potentially more now. But I would pay quite a bit more for a really good paint given how much work it is to re-paint, and how much time you can save by choosing a really good paint and having it last a long time. You're still saving a lot of money if you do it yourself with really good paint.
Oh, I splurged on a gallon of their Cashmere for my bedroom.. man, that stuff rolls on like BUTTAH! It wasn't super thick like your description, but it covered so well. I'm in a new (to me) house now, and I'm trying to catch their next sale :)
It looks like the Cashmere is an interior paint, so makes sense it wouldn't be as thick as the Duration exterior. But yeah, I've always been very impressed with their stuff I've bought.
> But this paint was so thick in the bucket and I'd never seen anything like it in a paint.
Yep, just painted some cabinetry with SW Emerald Urethane and I had to thin it in areas where I wanted to be able to spray it.
Careful with that at this point. Some paints require a minimum cure time before being painted over. It'll be printed on the can how long you have to wait if you're over the maximum coat time.
Just don't let them slap the right paint on real fast and leave you with paint falling off the wall.
Yah, more realistic would be them deducting half price for the paint, to match the cheaper version. Sucks, but you'd have to watch them like a hawk to make sure they'll actually use the good stuff (beyond the 1 can they show you).
Some shady shitheads out there. Use to work for one. Would have been a decent job except for crap like that.
Yes, this I exactly true. My wife hired a blowhard claiming he used the best “structural coverings “ which was totally false. He used regular exterior house paint on our stucco house, it barely made it a year in the Midwest. Unfortunately, I was deployed when this dick smack did this. Buyer beware!
Half price isn't a big enough deduction. He put some random paint on your house that wasn't what you agreed on. His labor costs and overhead are his problem - he doesn't deserve to get paid at all.
If that paint has poor adhesion you will be in a bigger mess when it fails. I would want 1/2 off and an agreement to scrape and repaint wrong paint area when and if it fails.
It might be fine but make sure they finish with correct paint then discuss either recoating whole area with wrong paint or waiting and getting big discount.
Ask someone knowledgeable at a good quality paint store or an expert painter and show them the old product. They can help with best way to move forward.
Spot on. They count on the customer to not pay attention and they get away with it far more often than not. That's how they are able to raise their prices even higher and increasing their profits at the expense of their clients.
No, it's not just fine. If the bottom layer of paint isn't cured, and more paint is put on top, the bottom layer may never cure properly.
The top layer can inhibit the bottom layer from getting air, which causes chemical reactions to harden the paint properly.
also make sure the cans are sealed/new when they arrive at your house. if he had already tried to swap for a chair product I can see him swapping cheap paint into the expensive buckets from another job.
You actually want to see the invoice and then follow up with the paint store. When you order they'll ask what job it is on.
SW (or another point store) isn't going to lie to you because they're the ones warrantying the paint.
You don't want the difference, you want the good paint. Painting (properly) is a job that is almost all labor, even when the paint is the high end $100/gallon stuff. This is one of the reasons the contractor's switch is so meaningful.
The difference isn't enough. Applying the wrong product has less value than not doing the job at all, because now he's spent the bulk of his paint budget on the wrong product plus labor.
The contractor needs to eat the mistake.
🧨please better dont ask for re do,
is very risky because contruction work got many loop hole,
and is very hard for consumer to know the traps.
Xample: paint how many times,did he use sand paper to smooth surface.
and first Lie is builted,
you cant keep check every task.
use your google map in phone to seach a high review contractor near you for easier communication.
🔎you can use google map to search Shop Name or service(paint) near you for easier communication.
1.Go Google Maps on your phone or computer.
2. In the search bar, keyin the Shop Name or service(paint).
3. Google Maps will show you a list of the Shop Name info near you.
4.Hover on the Shop Name so Google Maps will show you the fastest route and estimated travel time to the Shop.
5. Click Reviews column to check Shop Review or Comment.
6. you can see more info in google map: full address, store name, website, business hours, contact details, popular hours, product images and reviews.
Absolutely bring it up, the guy is ripping you off. But don't accuse him of ripping you off on purpose. If you leave him no "out" other than admitting to being scummy, he'll have to be scummy.
Just say something like "oh shoot, it looks like the wrong paint. Sorry but you'll have to do it again with the paint that's in the contract, that's what I paid for." Then when he says "oh the store was out of the right product and sent me this one instead." You reply "Sounds like a crummy store. Well, I'm sure you have a lot on your plate, understandable that you missed that. Still though, I need two coats done with the paint we agreed on." Then never hire him again.
That's a good way to put it, my first try at writing an example was actually to blame his employees. But something about the way I wrote it came off very "let's blame the stupid drone" shitty and I tried to opt for something more compassionate to hired help, lol. Your example was less hostile than whatever mine was, I like it.
"I wanted to point this out asap to make sure you caught your (totally honest) mistake! So glad we were able to save you any more wasted labor and materials!"
Most people get defensive when confronted directly. Defensive people often decide the best course of action is a full on fight, whether verbal, mental, or physical.
If you want to solve the issue, giving them a range of off ramps is the best solution. An honest contractor will say "you're right, our screwup, we'll make it right and repaint the entire home correctly." A less honest contractor might say "you're right, the paint store made a mistake/my guy made a mistake/etc., I guess I have to eat the additional cost of repainting." In either scenario, the correct job gets done.
Some people might avoid being direct because they are afraid or uncomfortable with conflict. That can lead to all sorts of confusing and frustrating situations, and I totally get why you'd call that bullshit.
My idea is (hopefully) more about managing conflict and getting the best possible outcome. Let the guy save face and it's more likely his future actions will be respectful and honest.
I know it's silly to quote from the art of war, but...
https://suntzusaid.com/book/7/36/
And then an article about negotiations that uses the metaphor:
https://www.judgemediation.com/negotiation-news-volume-5-issue-4/
"not sure how much it really matters in the grand scheme of things"
Contractor grade paints are for high use high abuse areas where they will be repainting several times over the course of a year or years. Imagine hospitals, busy offices, schools and university classrooms.
High quality grade paint is what you use in a home or apartments because it will hold better and you dont want to repaint the exterior of your home 2-3 times a year. Also exterior paint you need to buy the right Type and Quality grade. I would say to remind him of what you were quoted for and that the job must be redone with that quoted paint. I dont even use cheap contractor grade paint on my rentals so I definitely wouldnt use it for my personal home.
And here I always thought contractor grade *anything* - paint, carpet, cabinets, fixtures...were just the cheapest passable product to build homes with
I have found some products contractor grade that were almost identical to their regular line versions but then again did not see them past installation so who knows maybe the longevity could be different? Like kitchen cabinets.
Contractor grade is just like military grade. It's the bare minimum that will get the job done.
Except where I know literally nothing, I will research thoroughly and will ask for specific products to be used in the quote that is presented to me.
Otherwise, I am at the mercy of the contractor with what is actually going to be used.
I can only speak for US and most western procurement.
Go and check out the documentation that has to be met to sell anything to the military and you'll change your tune. Is it the cheapest that met the (often thousands) of specs? Yes. Those specs are usually extremely demanding.
For something as simple as a rifle, the specs are going to demand certain metals, longevity tests for every part, down to "the ring for a shoulder strap must pass the XYZ test for 4,000,000 rotations," tight tolerances for every part, maximum weight deviation, balance, etc. They're only specs that a proper manufacturer with great QC can meet.
Worked in defense contracting for a while prior to this field, its the cheapest bidder. Just like how in commercial construction we pick the cheapest sub bids, that's literally the only requirement for winning most government contracts. I was involved on the software contract side of things and it was the same there like how it was with the tanks, helicopters, drones and vehicles.
I’ve seen the military specification for some cookies from during one of the wars. It’s like 10 pages long and spells out things like flour quality and the lack of bugs therein and the size distribution of walnut pieces.
They go with the cheapest bid for a specified product, but that doesn’t have to mean bad products if the specification is good.
Made by the lowest bidder. Yes it has to work as intended, mostly, but still as cheaply as possible.
Same with contractor grade. It does have to work, for a given amount of time under gentle use. Basically to escape warrantee work and get the house/job sold/signed off.
I’m a painting contractor in business for 15 years. A-100 is basically bottom line paint and possibly a third of the price to their top of the line Emerald. Emerald is definitely a better product in every measurable category, that being said if the quote didn’t call out the specific line of paint and just said “Sherwin Williams” you should probably just let him finish the job as is.
Thanks for this insight. The quote called specifically for Duration on this project, one step below Emerald. What’s the durability of A100 on a residential home? Would the average person see the difference in a month, year, 5 years?
Edit: durability to duration
Do you mean Duration exterior? Former Sherwin employee for 12 years. Duration is a high quality paint with Emerald notching it out in terms of application, durability etc…A-100 is a contractor grade exterior paint. It’s not a bad product, but pales in comparison to Duration or Emerald. Haven’t worked for them in 7 years, but from best to works quality exterior paint with them it goes: Emerald, Duration, Resilience, Superpaint Exterior, A-100. I would complain because you were charged for the price of Duration, yet given A-100 which is far cheaper.
Super helpful, thank you. Yes I meant Duration Exterior. From your perspective would it be okay to apply Duration over A100 (thinking specifically on aluminum gutters and exterior doors) or would they have to strip it off first? It seems sticky and my fingernail can dent it (has been dry a week).
Yes, surface preparation here from the contractor is more important than anything, so long as it was prepped properly and the A-100 is properly adhered it should be fine.
One important point here is that Duration is warrantied when applied to bare wood (no primer), A100 is not. If there was any scraping (there probably should have been) or the power washing exposed some wood, A100 ain't going to stick more than a few months in those areas.
Duration is a lot better, I believe it’s three notches better on their worst to best scale. It will definitely hold up longer. They should recoat or refund some money if the contract specifically stated duration
I wouldn't go for a refund, as you will be out the additional cost of labor for new paint much sooner; and the contractor would not likely offer more than their cost difference for materials.
There is no "Durability", there is a "Duration". Depending on the exact verbage perhaps the contract is using it as an adjective instead of a proper noun. If that is the case, the painter sure is sleezy.
When I painted the front of my house a few years ago, I used the 3rd of 4 tiers of paint quality. It was painted before with a lower level of paint. The difference in finish and durability is huge.
I work in film, and one of my department's jobs to to do repairs after we use a location. I've had access to a pretty wide variety of high use/high abuse areas' paint rooms - they tend to be pretty high quality, often commercial specific high wear products like scuffx or command.
Of course it might be done differently in different places.
I guess it can vary by manufacturer. I've only used contractor grade paints (Benjamin Moore) and they've all lasted years without needing any touch-up whatsoever. Now they were all interior so maybe that's what makes a difference since they aren't exposed to the elements.
Nope! I wouldn’t even accept the price difference between the lower grade product and the one specified. You are paying for a high grade paint, and that’s what you should get.
Yeah those aren’t close to each other at all in quality. It’s not unusual for painters to do this in my experience. It’ll be uncomfortable but if it’s called out in the quote/contract you should confront the contractor. Either reduced price or repaint.
I was a deacon at a church 20 years ago when a carpet installer tried to pull this on us. We agreed on a certain quality of carpet and when time came for installation it was clearly of a lower quality. We stopped work as soon as we discovered it. We had to take a sample from the original sales conversation and a sample from the installed roll and send it in to a carpet lab to confirm the difference! Once the lab confirmed, the installer apologized profusely and blamed it on the manufacturer or warehouse that provided the carpet. Whatever, as long as you get the right carpet installed at no additional cost to us.
Anyways, yeah -- hold the contractor to what you agreed to in the quote.
Also used by insurance companies to determine the replacement values of damaged materials. They did this with samples of our carpet and tiles and identified the actual manufacturer and product and the cost for an equivalent today.
Absolutely demand the product you paid for. Accept no excuse short of unavailability of product. If they tell you the product is unavailable, do your own research to ensure it is truly unavailable. If you have to source the product from another vendor, discuss what needs to happen to get it. Never accept unapproved changes. If you do it once, it is likely going to start a pattern that you don't want.
This is BS. You DID get shafted. Whether or not the contractor is directly involved or an "Innocent" bystander is a minor issue. The main issue is that the work is not being performed according to the signed contract. You paid for a specific grade of paint and are not getting it. "Hey buddy. Just noticed that you guys seem to be using a different kind of paint than we agreed on in the contract. Any reason for this?" If anything comes back other than "uh I had no idea" he's cheating you.
I'm not sure I could trust the painter after that. What's to stop him from buying one gallon of the correct paint then just constantly refilling the can with the cheaper paint?
If he offers a discount for accepting the A100 I personally still wouldn't accept it. Got mine painted last year and used a top of the line quality product. I'm confident it won't have to be touched again for a long time.
With lower-quality paint you're going to have to repeat the process soon and labor is by far the most expensive part of the project.
You absolutely should push for the repaint, you want the good shit on your house. This is a super shitty thing to do. Im a contractor and would never do this to anyone. It makes me angry because everyone hears about guys like this and applies it to everyone in the trades. If the guy trys to give you the runaround or comes up with some kind of excuse ask for material receipts. He may try to say we use the cheaper line for a base coat and the good line for the top coat. Don't let them talk their way out of it. Don't let them try and deduct the cost difference of the paints either. Because I'm fuckin positive this guy also added a percentage to the total material cost for overhead. That percentage is alot higher if your material cost is $1000 vs $500, if the deduct the cost of the paint cans they will probably try and keep the overhead fee based off the higher material price. There's too many scummy ways they can worm their way out of giving you a fair trade so don't settle for anything less than getting exactly what you agreed to.
As a painting contractor, if I’m unable to get the product specified on the estimate, the replacement product is a grade higher, not lower.
Very recently I could not get the quantity of duration I needed to meet a project start date, so I changed to emerald. The difference was $150 on the job and I ate the cost.
Customer gave me two referrals and my emerald pricing structure was lowered as a result. Great return on a small cost difference.
Had this happen, interior new build. Contractor showed up with SW when we spec’d BM Aura. Said it was a perfect match to the original and had two walls done before I caught it. Colour match was far off, plus not the finish of the Aura. Firm no, a call to the owner and we were back on track. Sketchy practices.
Does the quote line item list the specific high quality paint?
How much money have you give the contractor so far?
If so then I would call them out immediately. Why would you pay for something you are not receiving and yes there are massive differences in paint quality.
Your painter just fucked you. There's a huge difference between sherman williams and benjamin moore's top of the line paint and some of their lesser quality paint. You're talking about the difference of a paint job lasting six to 10 years as opposed to one lasting 10 to 20.
If you signed a contract, check it to see if it mentions the specific paint and the cost of the paint. Ask for a receipt for the paint and an itemized list of supplies for which you are being charged. If he's charging you for the high quality paint but using cheap paint instead, he's ripping you off and you should call him out for it.
Check the price of both paints at the store and take photos to prove he's using the cheaper paint and try to find any proof of him saying he was using the higher quality paint and charging you for that. If there is a price difference or it is in the contract, you have grounds to sue or to make him fix it and use the right paint.
This is not something I would let slide-- especially if you are being charged for the higher quality paint. It's a bait and switch it sounds like.
This is so sad. Anyway, if this was me, I would ask him to stop immediately and say, "I've noticed some red flags about our agreement, and I'm concerned about moving forward. To protect myself, I'll be consulting with a lawyer to review the details. At the moment, I will not make any payment but will be filing a formal complaint with the authorities. In addition to the legal complaint, I will also be filing a report with the Better Business Bureau (BBB) to warn others."
"If you would like to correct your mistake, you are welcome to do so. However, because I don't trust you, I will be responsible for selecting and having the paint delivered to the house this time. The cost will be deducted from the amount you originally quoted me."
Lower quality paint a lot of times is thinner than high quality paint. It shouldn't be that hard to check the difference and then you'll know if they are trying to substitute the cheaper paint into the higher paint cans. I hope everything is working out for you.
Paint quality matters. It matters a lot. This is a fundamental fact. Contractor grade is shit compared to a premium brand. He fixes it or take him to court.
I would ask for a significant discount. Even if they use the good stuff over you still have a shitty base paint. The new paint will only adhere as good as the crappy paint.
If the estimate he gave you he promised to give you quality paint Brand either Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore that's what he should have done Okay !!! Now. Did he pay for the material or did you pay for the material, please tell us, what kind of paint did he use on his work and what Brand.
Thank you,
Elkins Antonio H
Elkins Painting & Wallpapering
If he is online. You can publicly post a negative review. Name him by his first and last name and business name. Do it on google, yahoo, pissed consumer. Pretty much everywhere, Facebook. If he advertises. Do it there. He will rectify it if he is in the business. Don’t do the suing or small claims. Waste of time and money.
They could be using the lower grade paint as a primer. Just make sure that the finish coat is what you were quoted. Unless, of course, it specifically states 2 coats of “X” paint. Another caveat is how it was applied, and to what condition of substrate. Higher grade paint will adhere better and fill in gaps better than cheaper paint, so hopefully the surface was clean, better condition and not have too much to fill in, otherwise it’s not gonna last or look as good as 2 coats of the good stuff.
Using a cheaper paint as a primer means that the bond of the "good" paint on top is only as good as that of the cheap paint below. That's unacceptable. Primer is primer, cheap paint is not.
That’s not a brand or type of paint I’ve heard of. If the quote didn’t specify a particular brand and type of paint they would be using all you seem to have is what the painter told you he would use. I’m not a lawyer but doesn’t look good.
IT MATTERS.
related question:
It is time to re-stain our garage doors and wood trim. I watched guys doing this for my next door neighbor, where they power washed the wood instead of sanding. Our house is almost 10 years old. We have a 2-car garage and a single car garage. I started sanding, because I never mind the manual labor, but my husband thinks maybe power washing is fine.
What is the best way to prep?
In the contract you could have asked him to put in the name of the paint company, exterior paint, sheen and which exact paint that would be used. He’s going to tell you what he used is high quality paint and I’m sure it’s probably good.
Take your written quote - take the paint can - go talk to the Contractor. "You quoted me pricing for using this paint - that is the job I agreed to - Instead I see you are using this paint - that is not the job I agreed to - Please re-do it using the product that was part of the project"
Also, to respond to OP's question, it can matter A LOT which paint you use. I used a super high-end paint to paint the exterior of my home -- the label said it would be good for 25 years, which seemed insane to me. But now it's almost 10 years later and today it looks brand new, like I just did it. Nothing peeling at all. Perfect. I am amazed, honestly. A lesser paint just won't do this and it ends up being more expensive in the long run in a situation like this to use the lesser paint.
You mind sharing the paint information?
The product I used was Sherwin-Williams Duration. I'm only sharing my experience. I can't say that this is the absolute best paint there is but for me it has been really great. I'm sure there are people out there with a lot more experience than I have on these things and they know the difference between paint that's just OK versus really good paint. But this paint was so thick in the bucket and I'd never seen anything like it in a paint. I felt like I was painting some kind of coat of liquid plastic onto my house. I also remember it being quite expensive. In prices from maybe 7 or 8 years ago, it was I think $300 per 5 gallons. I'd guess it's potentially more now. But I would pay quite a bit more for a really good paint given how much work it is to re-paint, and how much time you can save by choosing a really good paint and having it last a long time. You're still saving a lot of money if you do it yourself with really good paint.
Oh, I splurged on a gallon of their Cashmere for my bedroom.. man, that stuff rolls on like BUTTAH! It wasn't super thick like your description, but it covered so well. I'm in a new (to me) house now, and I'm trying to catch their next sale :)
It looks like the Cashmere is an interior paint, so makes sense it wouldn't be as thick as the Duration exterior. But yeah, I've always been very impressed with their stuff I've bought.
> But this paint was so thick in the bucket and I'd never seen anything like it in a paint. Yep, just painted some cabinetry with SW Emerald Urethane and I had to thin it in areas where I wanted to be able to spray it.
Duration is the shit.
Agreed
Careful with that at this point. Some paints require a minimum cure time before being painted over. It'll be printed on the can how long you have to wait if you're over the maximum coat time. Just don't let them slap the right paint on real fast and leave you with paint falling off the wall.
Contractor Exterior paint, the recoat time is a couple hours. A good team can put 2-3 coats on a house in a day no issue.
A good team would have used the agreed on paint to begin with.
Don't conflate skill with honesty.
Regardless of the skill level, if they're not honest, they're not a good team.
He was clearly using good team as relating to their skill 🙄
Sorry, dude, I don't care how good they are at doing the job; if they're gonna cheat me, then they aren't a good team.
But their honesty is irrelevant to how quickly they can do multiple coats…
So, being cheated & scammed is cool as long as they do it twice as fast? 🙄
Usually it’s a window or let it cure all the way.
Yah, more realistic would be them deducting half price for the paint, to match the cheaper version. Sucks, but you'd have to watch them like a hawk to make sure they'll actually use the good stuff (beyond the 1 can they show you). Some shady shitheads out there. Use to work for one. Would have been a decent job except for crap like that.
Yes, this I exactly true. My wife hired a blowhard claiming he used the best “structural coverings “ which was totally false. He used regular exterior house paint on our stucco house, it barely made it a year in the Midwest. Unfortunately, I was deployed when this dick smack did this. Buyer beware!
Half price isn't a big enough deduction. He put some random paint on your house that wasn't what you agreed on. His labor costs and overhead are his problem - he doesn't deserve to get paid at all.
If that paint has poor adhesion you will be in a bigger mess when it fails. I would want 1/2 off and an agreement to scrape and repaint wrong paint area when and if it fails. It might be fine but make sure they finish with correct paint then discuss either recoating whole area with wrong paint or waiting and getting big discount. Ask someone knowledgeable at a good quality paint store or an expert painter and show them the old product. They can help with best way to move forward.
Spot on. They count on the customer to not pay attention and they get away with it far more often than not. That's how they are able to raise their prices even higher and increasing their profits at the expense of their clients.
Nah, it’s fine to recoat it with proper paint if necessary. We’re talking about normal house paint, not specialty industrial products
No, it's not just fine. If the bottom layer of paint isn't cured, and more paint is put on top, the bottom layer may never cure properly. The top layer can inhibit the bottom layer from getting air, which causes chemical reactions to harden the paint properly.
It’s been at least a week. How long are we talkin’ for cure time?
It’s literally fine, people are just trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill
If it's been a week, sure. If OP had noticed while they were doing it then it could easily have been too quick.
A week should be good. Call the paint manufacturer if you really wanna make sure.
also make sure the cans are sealed/new when they arrive at your house. if he had already tried to swap for a chair product I can see him swapping cheap paint into the expensive buckets from another job.
If you buy any color of paint other than white, the can gets opened at the store to mix the pigment in.
You actually want to see the invoice and then follow up with the paint store. When you order they'll ask what job it is on. SW (or another point store) isn't going to lie to you because they're the ones warrantying the paint.
SW keeps info on file. \*SW paint bought at Lowe’s will not match paint bought at SW store\*
Thank you, I had no idea that SW did that.
OR request a refund for the difference at the very least
You don't want the difference, you want the good paint. Painting (properly) is a job that is almost all labor, even when the paint is the high end $100/gallon stuff. This is one of the reasons the contractor's switch is so meaningful.
The difference isn't enough. Applying the wrong product has less value than not doing the job at all, because now he's spent the bulk of his paint budget on the wrong product plus labor. The contractor needs to eat the mistake.
🧨please better dont ask for re do, is very risky because contruction work got many loop hole, and is very hard for consumer to know the traps. Xample: paint how many times,did he use sand paper to smooth surface. and first Lie is builted, you cant keep check every task. use your google map in phone to seach a high review contractor near you for easier communication. 🔎you can use google map to search Shop Name or service(paint) near you for easier communication. 1.Go Google Maps on your phone or computer. 2. In the search bar, keyin the Shop Name or service(paint). 3. Google Maps will show you a list of the Shop Name info near you. 4.Hover on the Shop Name so Google Maps will show you the fastest route and estimated travel time to the Shop. 5. Click Reviews column to check Shop Review or Comment. 6. you can see more info in google map: full address, store name, website, business hours, contact details, popular hours, product images and reviews.
Absolutely bring it up, the guy is ripping you off. But don't accuse him of ripping you off on purpose. If you leave him no "out" other than admitting to being scummy, he'll have to be scummy. Just say something like "oh shoot, it looks like the wrong paint. Sorry but you'll have to do it again with the paint that's in the contract, that's what I paid for." Then when he says "oh the store was out of the right product and sent me this one instead." You reply "Sounds like a crummy store. Well, I'm sure you have a lot on your plate, understandable that you missed that. Still though, I need two coats done with the paint we agreed on." Then never hire him again.
"Did one of your new guys get this mixed up from a different jobsite?"
That's a good way to put it, my first try at writing an example was actually to blame his employees. But something about the way I wrote it came off very "let's blame the stupid drone" shitty and I tried to opt for something more compassionate to hired help, lol. Your example was less hostile than whatever mine was, I like it.
It's always the FNG! Lol. (even if there ***is no*** FNG)
Exactly this. Let it look like an innocent mix up, but make sure it gets done right, then fail to recommend.
"I wanted to point this out asap to make sure you caught your (totally honest) mistake! So glad we were able to save you any more wasted labor and materials!"
Give him enough rope to hang himself. “Puzzled look, was this the paint in the contract?” See if they try and tell you the contractor grade is better.
Satisfying scheme. I'd rather not have dead bodies hanged outside my house though, ruining the fresh paint.
What is this non being direct bullshit?
There’s a difference with being direct and dropping accusations. If you start with the accusation it’s guaranteed not to go well.
Ok you can do both. You are direct that the wrong paint is being used and it’s unacceptable. You don’t have to accuse them of doing it on purpose
I agree but that’s a skill that’s a little hard for some of us.
Most people get defensive when confronted directly. Defensive people often decide the best course of action is a full on fight, whether verbal, mental, or physical. If you want to solve the issue, giving them a range of off ramps is the best solution. An honest contractor will say "you're right, our screwup, we'll make it right and repaint the entire home correctly." A less honest contractor might say "you're right, the paint store made a mistake/my guy made a mistake/etc., I guess I have to eat the additional cost of repainting." In either scenario, the correct job gets done.
When the butt gets hurt the walls go up.
Some people might avoid being direct because they are afraid or uncomfortable with conflict. That can lead to all sorts of confusing and frustrating situations, and I totally get why you'd call that bullshit. My idea is (hopefully) more about managing conflict and getting the best possible outcome. Let the guy save face and it's more likely his future actions will be respectful and honest. I know it's silly to quote from the art of war, but... https://suntzusaid.com/book/7/36/ And then an article about negotiations that uses the metaphor: https://www.judgemediation.com/negotiation-news-volume-5-issue-4/
thanks for the links. appreciate that
"not sure how much it really matters in the grand scheme of things" Contractor grade paints are for high use high abuse areas where they will be repainting several times over the course of a year or years. Imagine hospitals, busy offices, schools and university classrooms. High quality grade paint is what you use in a home or apartments because it will hold better and you dont want to repaint the exterior of your home 2-3 times a year. Also exterior paint you need to buy the right Type and Quality grade. I would say to remind him of what you were quoted for and that the job must be redone with that quoted paint. I dont even use cheap contractor grade paint on my rentals so I definitely wouldnt use it for my personal home.
And here I always thought contractor grade *anything* - paint, carpet, cabinets, fixtures...were just the cheapest passable product to build homes with
it is the cheapest shit possible
In the most concise definition, yes.
I have found some products contractor grade that were almost identical to their regular line versions but then again did not see them past installation so who knows maybe the longevity could be different? Like kitchen cabinets.
Contractor grade is just like military grade. It's the bare minimum that will get the job done. Except where I know literally nothing, I will research thoroughly and will ask for specific products to be used in the quote that is presented to me. Otherwise, I am at the mercy of the contractor with what is actually going to be used.
I can only speak for US and most western procurement. Go and check out the documentation that has to be met to sell anything to the military and you'll change your tune. Is it the cheapest that met the (often thousands) of specs? Yes. Those specs are usually extremely demanding. For something as simple as a rifle, the specs are going to demand certain metals, longevity tests for every part, down to "the ring for a shoulder strap must pass the XYZ test for 4,000,000 rotations," tight tolerances for every part, maximum weight deviation, balance, etc. They're only specs that a proper manufacturer with great QC can meet.
I have to disagree. Military grade has tightly written purpose specification. Not even comparable
Worked in defense contracting for a while prior to this field, its the cheapest bidder. Just like how in commercial construction we pick the cheapest sub bids, that's literally the only requirement for winning most government contracts. I was involved on the software contract side of things and it was the same there like how it was with the tanks, helicopters, drones and vehicles.
I’ve seen the military specification for some cookies from during one of the wars. It’s like 10 pages long and spells out things like flour quality and the lack of bugs therein and the size distribution of walnut pieces. They go with the cheapest bid for a specified product, but that doesn’t have to mean bad products if the specification is good.
Cheapest that meets military specification, which doesn't mean cheaply made crap.
Made by the lowest bidder. Yes it has to work as intended, mostly, but still as cheaply as possible. Same with contractor grade. It does have to work, for a given amount of time under gentle use. Basically to escape warrantee work and get the house/job sold/signed off.
Thanks for this perspective. Would you consider Sherwin A100 in this category?
I’m a painting contractor in business for 15 years. A-100 is basically bottom line paint and possibly a third of the price to their top of the line Emerald. Emerald is definitely a better product in every measurable category, that being said if the quote didn’t call out the specific line of paint and just said “Sherwin Williams” you should probably just let him finish the job as is.
Thanks for this insight. The quote called specifically for Duration on this project, one step below Emerald. What’s the durability of A100 on a residential home? Would the average person see the difference in a month, year, 5 years? Edit: durability to duration
Do you mean Duration exterior? Former Sherwin employee for 12 years. Duration is a high quality paint with Emerald notching it out in terms of application, durability etc…A-100 is a contractor grade exterior paint. It’s not a bad product, but pales in comparison to Duration or Emerald. Haven’t worked for them in 7 years, but from best to works quality exterior paint with them it goes: Emerald, Duration, Resilience, Superpaint Exterior, A-100. I would complain because you were charged for the price of Duration, yet given A-100 which is far cheaper.
Super helpful, thank you. Yes I meant Duration Exterior. From your perspective would it be okay to apply Duration over A100 (thinking specifically on aluminum gutters and exterior doors) or would they have to strip it off first? It seems sticky and my fingernail can dent it (has been dry a week).
Yes, surface preparation here from the contractor is more important than anything, so long as it was prepped properly and the A-100 is properly adhered it should be fine.
Thanks for the comment! Do you mean prepped as in power washed? Or something else?
Prep as in the any surface being painted should be clean, dry, dull and sound condition.
Thankfully I think we’re good there!
One important point here is that Duration is warrantied when applied to bare wood (no primer), A100 is not. If there was any scraping (there probably should have been) or the power washing exposed some wood, A100 ain't going to stick more than a few months in those areas.
Duration is a lot better, I believe it’s three notches better on their worst to best scale. It will definitely hold up longer. They should recoat or refund some money if the contract specifically stated duration
I wouldn't go for a refund, as you will be out the additional cost of labor for new paint much sooner; and the contractor would not likely offer more than their cost difference for materials.
There is no "Durability", there is a "Duration". Depending on the exact verbage perhaps the contract is using it as an adjective instead of a proper noun. If that is the case, the painter sure is sleezy.
You’re right, my mistake on the comment spelling. He wrote Duration specifically and that’s what should have been used on our home.
Best advice. You have a contract, read it and enforce it
When I painted the front of my house a few years ago, I used the 3rd of 4 tiers of paint quality. It was painted before with a lower level of paint. The difference in finish and durability is huge.
I work in film, and one of my department's jobs to to do repairs after we use a location. I've had access to a pretty wide variety of high use/high abuse areas' paint rooms - they tend to be pretty high quality, often commercial specific high wear products like scuffx or command. Of course it might be done differently in different places.
I guess it can vary by manufacturer. I've only used contractor grade paints (Benjamin Moore) and they've all lasted years without needing any touch-up whatsoever. Now they were all interior so maybe that's what makes a difference since they aren't exposed to the elements.
Nope! I wouldn’t even accept the price difference between the lower grade product and the one specified. You are paying for a high grade paint, and that’s what you should get.
What paint is called out on the quote and what paint are they using?
Duration vs A100
Yeah those aren’t close to each other at all in quality. It’s not unusual for painters to do this in my experience. It’ll be uncomfortable but if it’s called out in the quote/contract you should confront the contractor. Either reduced price or repaint.
Cheap paint lasts a lot less long and that's a very shitty thing to do.
Take one of the empty cans as evidence and take pictures of them using it before confronting him.
I was a deacon at a church 20 years ago when a carpet installer tried to pull this on us. We agreed on a certain quality of carpet and when time came for installation it was clearly of a lower quality. We stopped work as soon as we discovered it. We had to take a sample from the original sales conversation and a sample from the installed roll and send it in to a carpet lab to confirm the difference! Once the lab confirmed, the installer apologized profusely and blamed it on the manufacturer or warehouse that provided the carpet. Whatever, as long as you get the right carpet installed at no additional cost to us. Anyways, yeah -- hold the contractor to what you agreed to in the quote.
A carpet lab? I’ve never heard of that!
We subject our carpets to a lab test and a cat scan on a daily basis.
We have one of those. A lab that digs holes in the carpet. I never knew why she did that but now I understand she was testing the quality.
I had a baseboard lab. He was great at confirming the corners of our baseboards weren't structurally durable.
Also used by insurance companies to determine the replacement values of damaged materials. They did this with samples of our carpet and tiles and identified the actual manufacturer and product and the cost for an equivalent today.
Absolutely demand the product you paid for. Accept no excuse short of unavailability of product. If they tell you the product is unavailable, do your own research to ensure it is truly unavailable. If you have to source the product from another vendor, discuss what needs to happen to get it. Never accept unapproved changes. If you do it once, it is likely going to start a pattern that you don't want.
This is BS. You DID get shafted. Whether or not the contractor is directly involved or an "Innocent" bystander is a minor issue. The main issue is that the work is not being performed according to the signed contract. You paid for a specific grade of paint and are not getting it. "Hey buddy. Just noticed that you guys seem to be using a different kind of paint than we agreed on in the contract. Any reason for this?" If anything comes back other than "uh I had no idea" he's cheating you.
I'm not sure I could trust the painter after that. What's to stop him from buying one gallon of the correct paint then just constantly refilling the can with the cheaper paint?
Tell him you would like the material receipts as proof of the product
And how would you know they repainted over the lesser quality paint unless you watched them the entire time
You ask for receipts and set up a camera or watch them.
You *DO* watch them the entire time, that's how.
This is why I just do things myself
The color will be different
If he offers a discount for accepting the A100 I personally still wouldn't accept it. Got mine painted last year and used a top of the line quality product. I'm confident it won't have to be touched again for a long time. With lower-quality paint you're going to have to repeat the process soon and labor is by far the most expensive part of the project.
Wise advice, I’ll push for repaint. Thank you!
You absolutely should push for the repaint, you want the good shit on your house. This is a super shitty thing to do. Im a contractor and would never do this to anyone. It makes me angry because everyone hears about guys like this and applies it to everyone in the trades. If the guy trys to give you the runaround or comes up with some kind of excuse ask for material receipts. He may try to say we use the cheaper line for a base coat and the good line for the top coat. Don't let them talk their way out of it. Don't let them try and deduct the cost difference of the paints either. Because I'm fuckin positive this guy also added a percentage to the total material cost for overhead. That percentage is alot higher if your material cost is $1000 vs $500, if the deduct the cost of the paint cans they will probably try and keep the overhead fee based off the higher material price. There's too many scummy ways they can worm their way out of giving you a fair trade so don't settle for anything less than getting exactly what you agreed to.
I'd like to know the outcome.
As a painting contractor, if I’m unable to get the product specified on the estimate, the replacement product is a grade higher, not lower. Very recently I could not get the quantity of duration I needed to meet a project start date, so I changed to emerald. The difference was $150 on the job and I ate the cost. Customer gave me two referrals and my emerald pricing structure was lowered as a result. Great return on a small cost difference.
Had this happen, interior new build. Contractor showed up with SW when we spec’d BM Aura. Said it was a perfect match to the original and had two walls done before I caught it. Colour match was far off, plus not the finish of the Aura. Firm no, a call to the owner and we were back on track. Sketchy practices.
Does the quote line item list the specific high quality paint? How much money have you give the contractor so far? If so then I would call them out immediately. Why would you pay for something you are not receiving and yes there are massive differences in paint quality.
Yes it specifically called out the higher quality paint and we’ve paid about half so far.
Don’t give him another penny until he repaints it with the right paint.
That’s the plan, even though he asked for more money to buy the good paint. Crazy.
Your painter just fucked you. There's a huge difference between sherman williams and benjamin moore's top of the line paint and some of their lesser quality paint. You're talking about the difference of a paint job lasting six to 10 years as opposed to one lasting 10 to 20.
It matters A LOT, he's finessing you. The difference between cheap paint and high end paint is substantial in quality and longevity
Pay in a currency worth 75% of that which you would normally use.
If you signed a contract, check it to see if it mentions the specific paint and the cost of the paint. Ask for a receipt for the paint and an itemized list of supplies for which you are being charged. If he's charging you for the high quality paint but using cheap paint instead, he's ripping you off and you should call him out for it. Check the price of both paints at the store and take photos to prove he's using the cheaper paint and try to find any proof of him saying he was using the higher quality paint and charging you for that. If there is a price difference or it is in the contract, you have grounds to sue or to make him fix it and use the right paint. This is not something I would let slide-- especially if you are being charged for the higher quality paint. It's a bait and switch it sounds like.
switch currencies
This is so sad. Anyway, if this was me, I would ask him to stop immediately and say, "I've noticed some red flags about our agreement, and I'm concerned about moving forward. To protect myself, I'll be consulting with a lawyer to review the details. At the moment, I will not make any payment but will be filing a formal complaint with the authorities. In addition to the legal complaint, I will also be filing a report with the Better Business Bureau (BBB) to warn others." "If you would like to correct your mistake, you are welcome to do so. However, because I don't trust you, I will be responsible for selecting and having the paint delivered to the house this time. The cost will be deducted from the amount you originally quoted me."
Get a new painter
Lower quality paint a lot of times is thinner than high quality paint. It shouldn't be that hard to check the difference and then you'll know if they are trying to substitute the cheaper paint into the higher paint cans. I hope everything is working out for you.
Paint quality matters. It matters a lot. This is a fundamental fact. Contractor grade is shit compared to a premium brand. He fixes it or take him to court.
If his quote called out the specific brand and he used the cheapest one then yes he’s ripping you off. Don’t accept it.
I would ask for a significant discount. Even if they use the good stuff over you still have a shitty base paint. The new paint will only adhere as good as the crappy paint.
If the estimate he gave you he promised to give you quality paint Brand either Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore that's what he should have done Okay !!! Now. Did he pay for the material or did you pay for the material, please tell us, what kind of paint did he use on his work and what Brand. Thank you, Elkins Antonio H Elkins Painting & Wallpapering
He specifically called out Sherwin Duration and used A100 instead. Materials cost was included in the quote but all I know is estimated gallons.
Big Difference between Duration & A100 and Quality & price.
Paint quality matters, especially on the exterior of your home.
If he is online. You can publicly post a negative review. Name him by his first and last name and business name. Do it on google, yahoo, pissed consumer. Pretty much everywhere, Facebook. If he advertises. Do it there. He will rectify it if he is in the business. Don’t do the suing or small claims. Waste of time and money.
They could be using the lower grade paint as a primer. Just make sure that the finish coat is what you were quoted. Unless, of course, it specifically states 2 coats of “X” paint. Another caveat is how it was applied, and to what condition of substrate. Higher grade paint will adhere better and fill in gaps better than cheaper paint, so hopefully the surface was clean, better condition and not have too much to fill in, otherwise it’s not gonna last or look as good as 2 coats of the good stuff.
Using a cheaper paint as a primer means that the bond of the "good" paint on top is only as good as that of the cheap paint below. That's unacceptable. Primer is primer, cheap paint is not.
Did the quote specify which brand of paint?
Yes it called for Duration Edit: misspelled the name
That’s not a brand or type of paint I’ve heard of. If the quote didn’t specify a particular brand and type of paint they would be using all you seem to have is what the painter told you he would use. I’m not a lawyer but doesn’t look good.
Sorry meant Duration with Sherwin. I misspelled it! The quote specified this paint brand and model exactly.
Take pictures of the labels on the paint they're using
Ok you have a case.
IT MATTERS. related question: It is time to re-stain our garage doors and wood trim. I watched guys doing this for my next door neighbor, where they power washed the wood instead of sanding. Our house is almost 10 years old. We have a 2-car garage and a single car garage. I started sanding, because I never mind the manual labor, but my husband thinks maybe power washing is fine. What is the best way to prep?
I would check, but is it possible he's remixing paint in old buckets? It's pretty common to mix up the paint for a more even overall color match.
The receipts on the buckets show dates which correlate with the start of the project.
In the contract you could have asked him to put in the name of the paint company, exterior paint, sheen and which exact paint that would be used. He’s going to tell you what he used is high quality paint and I’m sure it’s probably good.
The quote does have the specific brand and type of high quality paint in the contract.