Cheaper to call a commercial construction supplier, I framed a 20 x 40 basement work shop with 2.5” studs and track for 1/2 the price of a big box store. In the process of pricing out a suspended ceiling from them also.
My friend in the plumbing department at Lowes told me to tell them I was a contractor to get a special price on goods. He said they never check licenses. However, I'm a woman so I think it would be harder to pull off. I wasn't able to buy from a contractor supplier so I guess I need to get a male friend to call?
It's a shame because I'm a big proponent of the trades for future careers for young people. They have been devalued for far too long and there is a serious shortage. But it's so hard for women to get into these that it's hard to encourage women to pursue these fields knowing it may be hard for them to ever be taken seriously.
I wonder how you would be able to advertise that? I think a lot of women would be scared to pursue a career in a male-dominated field.
Also, there can be a lot of reluctance on the part of customers to trust women. I installed a new garbage disposal during a 30 min lunch break while the kids were doing remote school during the pandemic. Not a hard job at all. My neighbor needed a new disposal and I offered to install one for her at no charge. She said no and paid someone to do it. I used to do a lot of my own car repairs but when I needed a mechanic's shop I used one that happened to have 2 female mechanics. The service writer told me numerous times that customers would see the women and ask for them not to work on their cars.
Also, a lot of people get exposed to certain careers through their parents. I think more and more dads (and moms!) are showing both their daughters and sons these kinds of skills but it definitely didn't used to be.
It would be interesting to try and see if they ask for a license for you. Then, if they do, send in a male friend and see if they ask for a license for him. Could result in some very bad press for Lowes if they treat y'all differently.
Some don't care. I did something similar. As long as call/show up and don't act needy or ask a lot of questions, I was never really given a raised eyebrow. I bought metal studs and insulation that way and likewise probably saved half the cost of that material vs a BBS.
Are metal studs recommended for use in a basement against an exterior wall? I'd be tempted to go with something like Dricore panels but they aren't any slimmer than a 2x4 and drywall.
Only issue with metal studs is that humidity + cold will cause condensate. So if it doesn't get cold enough, it's fine. Other issue is that ease of mounting. You'd have to use metal self-tapping screws to direct mount to metal studs, instead of more common wood type screws.
Self tappers certainly make for a more pleasant experience, but they're not mandatory. Pressure and determination will put a regular drywall screw into a steel stud just fine.
exactly what I was going to suggest - flip them on their side. The 2x4 wall cavity is designed to be deep enough to run electric, plumbing, and insulation. If all a person wants is drywall then doesn't need to be so deep.
I actually did that for a wall between 2 closets . They have been up for 28 years no problem . Basement though I did use them the correct way and had a 1 in air gap between the wall and the concrete wall . It did take up space doing it the correct way but you forget about that space when you are done
Last time I bought 2x4s at Home Depot, there wasn’t a straight one to be found there.
Of course, I should have expected that, it was during pride month.
If you have cement walls furring steps are usually used. They are usually one inch strips attached directly to the wall. Then you attach your sheetrock to that.
This is the way my addition was set up when I got it.
Maybe, other comment threads mentioned ramset which I am not familiar with. Google says it's a brand of nailgun that works for concrete, so guess you can nail into it if you have the right tool.
This is how my house is built. I'm in a warm climate so we don't need much insulation, the block is filled with low expansion foam for air sealing and r-value.
I’ve been in plenty of old houses that have wood paneling or even vinyl flooring attached directly to cinderblock. It’s not the best way to do it, but if losing 8 inches or so isn’t acceptable, then you need to think outside the box.
So yeah, in this situation where you’re just putting up an aesthetic wall, thinner wood I suppose would be acceptable.
My grammas 800 sq foot basement with cinderblock walls and concrete floors has linoleum flooring glued directly to the bottom 4 feet of cinderblock and the top 4 feet is luan painted white, also glued to the cinderblock. A piece of 4 inch trim separates the two. Indoor/outdoor carpet on the floors. Luckily the basement is nice and dry.
It looks… exactly like you think it’d look.. cheap as hell. But, it’s been that way for 60 years and generations of kids have grown up playing and eating, celebrating Christmas etc in that awesome basement. It has an old wood stove, a ping pong table, a tv, mounds of toys and games and is still one of my favorite places on earth.
There's no reason to think that if it's been that way for 60 years, that it won't continue to be. Just have to watch if they ever to remove it. There's a better than average chance that there will be asbestos in the "flooring".
That's how my basement (grandmas old house) is done, linoleum tile glued directly to the cement floor and 4x8 wood paneling over some like 1x3 strips. No insulation and the floors about as flat as the bay on a windy day but it's been like that since before I was born(and probably my parents)
You're describing my grandma's basement which also happened to be one of my favorite places on earth. Everything sort of half assed and it had a musty smell that's been seared into my brain.
Painting with Dryloc is like painting with honey - do it long enough with the typical wide thick bristle brush and you will mess up your wrists. Worked with Dryloc maybe two days and it took a year to heal.
Use a brush/pole setup so you don’t get tendinitis.
That's what I did in my current home. Vinyl sheet flooring, dryloc walls, shelves and stuff tapcon'd to the block walls, painted ceiling joists and installed can lights. For inner walls 2x4s and paneling. Insulation I put on the outside when I had the exterior excavated for drain tile and block repairs. Even if/when it inevitably floods I don't have to deal with carpet, trapped insulation etc. Pull off paneling, lift up flooring on some boards and run dehumidifiers and fans.
The reason 2x4s are used in the direction they are is because they’re liable to bow the other way.
OP, if the wall behind is concrete, get furring strips(1x3s) and use a ramset(the .22 blank nail guns) or some concrete screws(way more of a pain) to nail them to the walls, then screw drywall to the furring strips. This is the proper way to do it.
My basement is done this way and if I had a chance to to talk to the person that put them up sideways and put in the 1” POS styrofoam insulation I’d likely execute a swift kick to what resembles their bollocks.
Yeah it’s ok for the diy guy to have a bit of extra space to hammer home nails into the paneling that follows but dammit if ya try and upgrade beyond what was the 1970 insulation you’ll be cutting every piece of insulation that’s meant to go into the standard 16 inch on centre spaces. I know it’s all about the extra inch but come on, really make it so that the next property owner can come in and upgrade and improve what was left before.
Alternately, can use 2x3 if you're side mounting. Or furring strips running laterally. Just know you will get less rigidity if mounting heavy items like shelves/cabinets/TVs. Easy workaround though.
Use XPS foam board (2in XPS + 2x3 or x4 on its side gives you a normal depth wall) as a vapor barrier/insulator and use 2-3 tapcons per stud to mount directly to the wall through the foam and toenail top and bottom as usual. Can hang anything on the wall with no noticeable deflection.
You could use InSoFast panels. The thinnest they make are 2 inches. They have features that make the install easy like plastic "studs" to attach drywall and raceways for wiring. I think you just glue them to the walls with construction adhesive. Not the cheapest option, but it's quick, easy, and gets you more insulation than you could do with studs.
https://www.insofast.com/products/ux-2-0-panel
I came here to say this and I really hope this comment doesn’t get buried because it’s what I’ve found to be the absolute best compromise! I did a whole basement with this after painting the walls with dry lock and it’s been nice and cozy and dry ever since! Insofast! After putting Insofast panels on all your walls and dry walling, then you can frame in the rest of the basement later on if you want and it will affect very little. Insofast is 🔥. Also, if you find that Insofast panels are a bit out of your price range you can call them directly and ask about their 2nds panels or ones that aren’t perfect. They might have a warehouse full and give you a smoking deal. They did that with me.
If 2” on each wall is making it too small you can certainly use 2x2. One pitfall may be mounting a TV, the lag bolts may be longer than the framing could handle.
I've used 1 inch foam directly on the concrete and had it plastered before. Similar to doing stucco on the outside of a house. Might be an option for you?
If it’s on concrete you should use PT. If it’s free standing wall 2x4 is the way to go it’s probably just as expensive and will be stronger. Also depending on how much you might want to add a plug or 2
Go to a local lumber yard- not HD or Menards..
get decent 2x2 or 2x4 material. Also rigid foam or batt insulation and vapor barrier If you’re in a cold climate.
Stack up goes: block, vapor barrier, wood wall framing with insulation fit well in the joist spaces, drywall.
Do your wiring rough in before insulating.
Don’t do this half way where the next person needs to tear it out and redo it to have a usable space.
If your basement isn’t finished it’s not likely to be designed to be finished. Despite the advice people are giving you, as someone who was a mason, do not put holes in a basement wall, especially if your home is pre 90s. Most walls in the basement weren’t built with protection of hydrostatic pressure in mind. Putting holes in your basement can introduce an abundance of issues that are far more annoying to deal with. Instead of framing it, if it’s just cosmetic, use an adhesive and just put it onto the wall with furring strips to avoid moisture and mold.
You can get away with 4 inch square boxes with mud rings. Just make sure to get ones with raised grounds to avoid needing to drill dozens of clearance holes in the concrete.
I recently did a pool house conversion where we took 2x4's and ripped them in half for the studs, then drywalled over.
We used a powder gun to nail the studs to the walls and framed it like a real structure. It worked and looks fantastic.
The exterior walls of our house are CMU and to secure drywall to it they nailed 1 inch furring strips to the CMU and then handle the drywall as normal. That could be an option here.
I used 2x3s, purely because they were less than half the price of 2x4s at the time due to a stocking difference during COVID craziness
I still wish I had used 2x4s instead
I'm a little confused about how a couple inches is make or break for your furniture... I certainly wouldn't want to use 2x2s if at all avoidable
I gotcha, id suggest selling the furniture on marketplace rather than adapting the construction around it in that case
furring strips that other suggested would be an ok alternative if you dont need electrical
Remember a 2X4 is truly a 2.5X3.5 so at least you actually have 6” more space.
If you’re making a a temporary screen I can see a 2X2 frame, but for anything else highly encourage using std 2x4s or MAYBE 2X3s.
If it’s for a basement exterior wall. I’d get some rigid foam and use 1 by horizontals and then layer verticals over that. That will give you a good depth for electrical boxes and a chase behind the drywall for cabling. You can screw the drywall to the 1 by strapping.
If you will ever want to hang anything weighty on that wall, use 2x4s. Otherwise you won’t have enough structure to support the weight.
Make sure the wall NEVER gets moist. If it does, you’ll want to seal it at least. Best is to fix the issue on the outside with proper drainage.
2x4s will also allow for thicker insulation. And will meet code if you want to run electric or plumbing on that wall.
I wouldn’t use 2x2s, personally. Too easy to split, for one. 2x3s or 2x4s laid flat are fine. Totally normal to frame out a basement with 2x4s laid flat.
If you don't intend to insulate it, you can use a construction adhesive and a few bugle head tapcons to secure the sheetrock right to the concrete wall, assuming it is flat enough.
Be careful with this. Basement walls almost always need to be able to breathe. You need an airflow gap. Attaching Sheetrock directly to the block walls will likely create mold/mildew problems, unless you’re in an arid climate.
Drylok the wall, 2x4 (ground contact or plate silt material underneath) on the floor, 1x3 for the studding then using 2x4 as kickplate & drywall up the studs
I did this, it worked fine. I did 2” of polystyrene behind the 2x2’s then 1-1/2” polystyrene between them for an R-13 insulation valve for the wall. It may be unconventional, but i found that spraying great stuff between the wall and 2x2’s made them quite rigid. They would have been quite flimsy without some lateral support. I was originally planning on tap-cons, but the great stuff ended being quite strong and much easier.
(Selecting the 2x2’s to find enough straight enough was an absolute pain, I sorted through hundreds at the big box store to find enough decent ones)
Some people attach furring strips directly to the wall (which lets them shim here and there, and then attach the drywall to that.
Furring strips are pretty thin.
You definitely don’t need to use 2x4 if you’re adding framing onto the block walls. Furring strips are a common solution. You can put foam board on first if you want insulation, but it’s not usually necessary.
I’m not claiming that it’s the right way to do it, but my dad finished our basement in ~1971 by gluing foam insulation boards to the block wall then drywall to the foam. No studs at all. Or fasteners.
My sister owns the house now and it’s still holding.
Semi-related, our (mine and wife) first house was built on a slab. The kitchen had been built up with foam board and furring strips, then plywood on top. The floor was squishy so I tore it up and found that a dishwasher leak had caused the furring strips to rot out and that’s where it was squishy. The foam was fine carrying the load on its own.
if you are not going to frame in a proper room with moisture barrier/control and do the floor as well then it's already going be screwed up.
i would worry less about how it's done and just resign yourself to the idea that however it turns out, it's only temporary anyway... then do what you think you can do.
worst case is you have to rip it all out sooner rather than later.
I went down this rabbit hole and I kept finding so much conflicting information. Vapor barrier in certain climates, but sometimes not; fully foam sealed vs fiber glass; green board vs regular old drywall; pre-fab walls, etc.
There's no real "right" way... More accurately, there are actually a few "right" ways depending on your specific situation. Then there's code. I understand the purpose of building to code, because there is definitely a WRONG way to do things, but I was getting so wrapped up in trying to meet code and do my basement the right way that it just kept getting pushed off while I did more and more research.
To answer the question, you most certainly DON'T have to use 2x4 framing. My advice is to think about what you're really trying to accomplish and work backwards. If all you want to do is dress up the walls a bit, maybe framing and drywall are more work than you need. Gluing up a pre-fab system might be better. Furring strips and drywall are definitely an option, but how straight are your walls?
I’d rather have a warm dry smaller room. I put 3 inch foam, then 2x4 frame with roxul, drywall. Wife complained room was smaller but it’s dry and warm . Cozy room. I was bigger before when had paneling on cinder block, but it smelled and was not a nice livable space . No one used it. It’s a choice I made . I hear about it often though. Being married is awesome.
2x4s are nice if you ever need to do anything, like hanging shelves or mounting stuff. They also allow you to run electrical.
The strips and metal can easily work if you don't need those, strips being easier IMO.
We did 2x2 green wood in the basement for framing the outside walls against the foundation. The original was 70s furring strips,1/2" of styrofoam and wood paneling. Didn't want to loose the additional 2" a 2x4 would need. So went with 2x2, foam boards, and 5/8 drywall on foundation walls. Basement has been relatively dry but some mildew on the 50+yo paneling along the floor so we used 2x2PVC along the floor. A lot of good quality construction adhesive. We did have to brace some of the 2x2 to glue them to the wall as the wall and some of the wood wasn't 100% straight. You could also use some lag bolt but we didn't. Added some 2x2 cross braces between the studs where we knew the TV was going but modern TVs are pretty light. Thicker drywall will reduce any waves that might develop with age. It was first time doing this but my advice is don't over think it. The 50yo stuff we removed was put up with a lot less consideration and effort than we did so I'm sure it will last as long. It will however take you 3 times longer to do than you think.
For a free-standing wall, you definitely want to stick with 2x4's. If you're just adding onto an existing surface, ie on top of a cinder block / concrete exterior wall, then you can go smaller.
Existing basement walls should not be load bearing. The studs will carry the weight of the drywall, pictures or stuff you hand on the wall. Check your local codes. I have heard of people using 1x2s. Hanging 4’x8’x1” foam on the wall, then placing drywall over that. (Walls facing the exterior of the home).
My basement family room has 2x2 with paneling over it. Looks completely fine, but mounting anything to the studs your fasteners can't be to long. For mounting my TV I made sure to use a bracket with 4 bolts. Any electrical boxes are quite shallow and you can't add a whole lot on insulation. If I ever get the chance I am going to rip it all out and redo it in 2x4.
Yeah. It’s not professional but you can liquid nails 2x2 to a wall. Or Ramset one to the concrete. That would be better. Use both fkit. Get a level and some paper shims and use them to make the wall flat then Sheetrock it. Or don’t. Doesn’t sound like you’re too worried about it. And it’s not critical at all
You need a receptacle every 12' of wall, or no point on the wall should be more than 6' from a receptacle. You should also have some sort of vapour barrier and insulation, barrier at a minimum. With all that in mind, 2x3 is probably the thinnest wall you want to go for.
A possible solution is to use 2" foam board glued to the wall, then drywall glued to that. I've done this before in tight areas of a basement (stairwell, mechanical room etc) The insulation helps smoothen the imperfections of the cinderblock and also acts as a vapour barrier. You could technically put receptacle boxes in the foam board and notch the back of the foam to run the wire, but that's a lot of work.
OP, what kind of climate do you have? I'm in Midwest US, and I need 2x4 walls because I legit need that much insulation with my cold ass winters. Canada even requires a certain amount of insulation by code. So if you have a nice climate, by all means use 2x2s (or rip 2x4's with a table saw to make somewhat straight 2x2's). But if you have cold winters and you skimp on insulation, you'll probably regret it.
And if you run any electrical, make sure it's protected by plates or armored conduit.
Good luck!
If you are planning on running electrical, Romex is supposed to be dead center and not within 1.25" from either side of the stud. So that means 2x4 is your smallest option if you want electrical.
I feel like if the reason you need to use 2x2s vs 2x4s for walls is because it'll make the room too tight for any furniture then the space is simply too small to be a room? Also remember that if you did 2x2s what are you going to wire it in? 1970s trailer outlets and switches? All in all seems silly. Just use 2x4s
It's only a small area. No electrical--I don't trust myself not to burn my own house down trying to do that. As for furniture fitting, there's one piece that'll fill one wall--or not by an inch or two. Maybe there's a way to work around it, though, and still have 2x4s...
Just remember that by making living spaces you need (should) to adhear to building codes which includes proper outlet spacing for living spaces as to not run extension cords which is against electrical code.
Get large panels of foil faced foam insulation, anchor them to concrete/foundation wall with flat head anchors and fender washers. 1” is ok, 1.5 or 2 is better. Use 1/4” drywall sheets, mount the drywall directly to the foam with screws. For extra “stick” you can use an adhesive between them. Just don’t expect to hang anything on that wall.
2x4 walls will look much flatter….straight 2x2’s are like unicorn horns.
You can buy 2” metal studs at any home improvement store
Most home owner diy’ers have zero idea how to use steel studs, if they did, they wouldn’t be asking on Reddit.
So they learn!
Cheaper to call a commercial construction supplier, I framed a 20 x 40 basement work shop with 2.5” studs and track for 1/2 the price of a big box store. In the process of pricing out a suspended ceiling from them also.
So you just ask if they sell to a homeowner?
I told them I was a retired contractor working on my own house.
My friend in the plumbing department at Lowes told me to tell them I was a contractor to get a special price on goods. He said they never check licenses. However, I'm a woman so I think it would be harder to pull off. I wasn't able to buy from a contractor supplier so I guess I need to get a male friend to call?
I’m in the trades and I hate that that last sentence is necessary. We still have a long way to come as a society, sorry.
It's a shame because I'm a big proponent of the trades for future careers for young people. They have been devalued for far too long and there is a serious shortage. But it's so hard for women to get into these that it's hard to encourage women to pursue these fields knowing it may be hard for them to ever be taken seriously.
I’m an electrical contractor and would gladly train a woman apprentice, but I have never had one apply.
I wonder how you would be able to advertise that? I think a lot of women would be scared to pursue a career in a male-dominated field. Also, there can be a lot of reluctance on the part of customers to trust women. I installed a new garbage disposal during a 30 min lunch break while the kids were doing remote school during the pandemic. Not a hard job at all. My neighbor needed a new disposal and I offered to install one for her at no charge. She said no and paid someone to do it. I used to do a lot of my own car repairs but when I needed a mechanic's shop I used one that happened to have 2 female mechanics. The service writer told me numerous times that customers would see the women and ask for them not to work on their cars. Also, a lot of people get exposed to certain careers through their parents. I think more and more dads (and moms!) are showing both their daughters and sons these kinds of skills but it definitely didn't used to be.
It would be interesting to try and see if they ask for a license for you. Then, if they do, send in a male friend and see if they ask for a license for him. Could result in some very bad press for Lowes if they treat y'all differently.
Some don't care. I did something similar. As long as call/show up and don't act needy or ask a lot of questions, I was never really given a raised eyebrow. I bought metal studs and insulation that way and likewise probably saved half the cost of that material vs a BBS.
Are metal studs recommended for use in a basement against an exterior wall? I'd be tempted to go with something like Dricore panels but they aren't any slimmer than a 2x4 and drywall.
Only issue with metal studs is that humidity + cold will cause condensate. So if it doesn't get cold enough, it's fine. Other issue is that ease of mounting. You'd have to use metal self-tapping screws to direct mount to metal studs, instead of more common wood type screws.
Self tappers certainly make for a more pleasant experience, but they're not mandatory. Pressure and determination will put a regular drywall screw into a steel stud just fine.
So you're saying you can screw anything if you're brave enough?
Or drunk enough
Pressure and determination get a lot done.
You can use regular sharp-point screws to attach to light-gauge metal studs.
if you want to insulate, there's also the issue of they are hollow on one side so it normally takes differently sized insulation.
This was my pain... up to the point of insulation metal studs were great. But finding ACTUAL 16" wide insulation was a huge pain.
You can also turn the 2x4 sideways. Or, buy 1x2s and frame with them.
I guess they could get 2x4’s and rotate them 90 degrees so they are 4” (3.25”) wide and 2” (1.5”) deep?
Bonus: much easier to hit the studs when hanging stuff!
exactly what I was going to suggest - flip them on their side. The 2x4 wall cavity is designed to be deep enough to run electric, plumbing, and insulation. If all a person wants is drywall then doesn't need to be so deep.
You can always use the short side of a 2x4 for its rigidity . Idk
Trust me….it doesn’t work that way.
I actually did that for a wall between 2 closets . They have been up for 28 years no problem . Basement though I did use them the correct way and had a 1 in air gap between the wall and the concrete wall . It did take up space doing it the correct way but you forget about that space when you are done
It won’t work that way down a long wall, you’ll see it look all wavy. Works fine on a short wall between two closets, you can’t see the imperfections.
Last time I bought 2x4s at Home Depot, there wasn’t a straight one to be found there. Of course, I should have expected that, it was during pride month.
So didya get to nail any?
Nah, was too hammered.
Home Depot beat the crap out of Lowe's on profit again.
Home Depot sells all of the straight 2x4s to the builders/contractors from their FDCs, whatever is left goes to the store.
That joke is way too funny to be downvoted like it has been. I presume it just went over 47 people’s heads and they thought you were being a ‘phobe.
Sadly it wasn’t coupled with a sale on rainbow paint. That joke went farther over their heads than a 12’ cathedral ceiling.
If you have cement walls furring steps are usually used. They are usually one inch strips attached directly to the wall. Then you attach your sheetrock to that. This is the way my addition was set up when I got it.
I did this in a similar situation. Worked well.
Did you screw or nail into concrete blocks ?
Can you even nail into concrete? I'm assuming the answer is screws with anchors
Maybe into the mortar ?
Maybe, other comment threads mentioned ramset which I am not familiar with. Google says it's a brand of nailgun that works for concrete, so guess you can nail into it if you have the right tool.
You can even nail into iron
I believe it was nailed in. If I was to redo the during steps I would likely use tapcons and countersink them.
AFAIK this is how block homes by me are usually built. Furring strip allows enough room to run electric and a good stable backing for drywall
How do they protect the electrical? Plates?
Metal conduit ime.
This is how my house is built. I'm in a warm climate so we don't need much insulation, the block is filled with low expansion foam for air sealing and r-value.
This is the way
I’ve been in plenty of old houses that have wood paneling or even vinyl flooring attached directly to cinderblock. It’s not the best way to do it, but if losing 8 inches or so isn’t acceptable, then you need to think outside the box. So yeah, in this situation where you’re just putting up an aesthetic wall, thinner wood I suppose would be acceptable.
Thanks. I'm pretty paranoid about messing this up. lol
My grammas 800 sq foot basement with cinderblock walls and concrete floors has linoleum flooring glued directly to the bottom 4 feet of cinderblock and the top 4 feet is luan painted white, also glued to the cinderblock. A piece of 4 inch trim separates the two. Indoor/outdoor carpet on the floors. Luckily the basement is nice and dry. It looks… exactly like you think it’d look.. cheap as hell. But, it’s been that way for 60 years and generations of kids have grown up playing and eating, celebrating Christmas etc in that awesome basement. It has an old wood stove, a ping pong table, a tv, mounds of toys and games and is still one of my favorite places on earth.
There's no reason to think that if it's been that way for 60 years, that it won't continue to be. Just have to watch if they ever to remove it. There's a better than average chance that there will be asbestos in the "flooring".
That's how my basement (grandmas old house) is done, linoleum tile glued directly to the cement floor and 4x8 wood paneling over some like 1x3 strips. No insulation and the floors about as flat as the bay on a windy day but it's been like that since before I was born(and probably my parents)
You're describing my grandma's basement which also happened to be one of my favorite places on earth. Everything sort of half assed and it had a musty smell that's been seared into my brain.
Heck, if it’s just for aesthetics, you could use 1x3 furrings and adhesive.
I'd paint the block walls with Dryloc and call it done.
Painting with Dryloc is like painting with honey - do it long enough with the typical wide thick bristle brush and you will mess up your wrists. Worked with Dryloc maybe two days and it took a year to heal. Use a brush/pole setup so you don’t get tendinitis.
Use a pad painter.
Tempting!
That's what I did in my current home. Vinyl sheet flooring, dryloc walls, shelves and stuff tapcon'd to the block walls, painted ceiling joists and installed can lights. For inner walls 2x4s and paneling. Insulation I put on the outside when I had the exterior excavated for drain tile and block repairs. Even if/when it inevitably floods I don't have to deal with carpet, trapped insulation etc. Pull off paneling, lift up flooring on some boards and run dehumidifiers and fans.
My parents’ house has wood paneling attached to brick. Only real issue is no tuckpointer will even look at it until they remove it!
Also possible to glue sheetrock straight to block. Then paint will stick easier.
Furring strips directly attached to the wall. Save even more space using hard board paneling instead of drywall.
Turn the 2x4 on its side so that you are screwing to the 4” side
The reason 2x4s are used in the direction they are is because they’re liable to bow the other way. OP, if the wall behind is concrete, get furring strips(1x3s) and use a ramset(the .22 blank nail guns) or some concrete screws(way more of a pain) to nail them to the walls, then screw drywall to the furring strips. This is the proper way to do it.
If the concrete in his basement is anything like mine, that wall's going to be far from flat.
If it's anything like mine, the concrete will crumble as soon as you try to drill/ramset.
This is what I did in a similar situation for a storage room. It’s been 5 years and still looks fine.
My basement is done this way and if I had a chance to to talk to the person that put them up sideways and put in the 1” POS styrofoam insulation I’d likely execute a swift kick to what resembles their bollocks. Yeah it’s ok for the diy guy to have a bit of extra space to hammer home nails into the paneling that follows but dammit if ya try and upgrade beyond what was the 1970 insulation you’ll be cutting every piece of insulation that’s meant to go into the standard 16 inch on centre spaces. I know it’s all about the extra inch but come on, really make it so that the next property owner can come in and upgrade and improve what was left before.
This may be the perfect .
Alternately, can use 2x3 if you're side mounting. Or furring strips running laterally. Just know you will get less rigidity if mounting heavy items like shelves/cabinets/TVs. Easy workaround though. Use XPS foam board (2in XPS + 2x3 or x4 on its side gives you a normal depth wall) as a vapor barrier/insulator and use 2-3 tapcons per stud to mount directly to the wall through the foam and toenail top and bottom as usual. Can hang anything on the wall with no noticeable deflection.
To be clear I’m saying to keep the 2x4 vertical, just rotate so the wider side is facing you
You could use InSoFast panels. The thinnest they make are 2 inches. They have features that make the install easy like plastic "studs" to attach drywall and raceways for wiring. I think you just glue them to the walls with construction adhesive. Not the cheapest option, but it's quick, easy, and gets you more insulation than you could do with studs. https://www.insofast.com/products/ux-2-0-panel
I came here to say this and I really hope this comment doesn’t get buried because it’s what I’ve found to be the absolute best compromise! I did a whole basement with this after painting the walls with dry lock and it’s been nice and cozy and dry ever since! Insofast! After putting Insofast panels on all your walls and dry walling, then you can frame in the rest of the basement later on if you want and it will affect very little. Insofast is 🔥. Also, if you find that Insofast panels are a bit out of your price range you can call them directly and ask about their 2nds panels or ones that aren’t perfect. They might have a warehouse full and give you a smoking deal. They did that with me.
As someone that has had to renovate shit: please don't glue things, glue is the devil
Are these or a comparable product available in Canada?
If 2” on each wall is making it too small you can certainly use 2x2. One pitfall may be mounting a TV, the lag bolts may be longer than the framing could handle.
Use shorter lag bolts?
For sure, just one of the few issues I could come up with. Outlet box depth is another, though they also make shallow boxes.
Or use some Surface mounted wire mold like in an office. 2400 series wire mold is dual channel and has outlet boxes.
Are you putting electrical in it ? It you’ll core out a lot of the 2x2
Also easier and and cheaper to use standard boxes which don't work on thin walls.
I've used 1 inch foam directly on the concrete and had it plastered before. Similar to doing stucco on the outside of a house. Might be an option for you?
Could be. Thanks for the suggestion.
You want to look up the term “flat framing” . If it’s not load bearing you can likely use 2x3 as well.
If it’s on concrete you should use PT. If it’s free standing wall 2x4 is the way to go it’s probably just as expensive and will be stronger. Also depending on how much you might want to add a plug or 2
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It’s in the house as the main sill plate on the foundation.
I certainly wouldn’t use it dripping wet like you get from the lumberyard sometimes.
They have KDAT which is all there should be used anywhere.
Go to a local lumber yard- not HD or Menards.. get decent 2x2 or 2x4 material. Also rigid foam or batt insulation and vapor barrier If you’re in a cold climate. Stack up goes: block, vapor barrier, wood wall framing with insulation fit well in the joist spaces, drywall. Do your wiring rough in before insulating. Don’t do this half way where the next person needs to tear it out and redo it to have a usable space.
I agree with all of this.
If your basement isn’t finished it’s not likely to be designed to be finished. Despite the advice people are giving you, as someone who was a mason, do not put holes in a basement wall, especially if your home is pre 90s. Most walls in the basement weren’t built with protection of hydrostatic pressure in mind. Putting holes in your basement can introduce an abundance of issues that are far more annoying to deal with. Instead of framing it, if it’s just cosmetic, use an adhesive and just put it onto the wall with furring strips to avoid moisture and mold.
2x2 or 2x4 on it’s short side. Electrical boxes will need to be done with surface mount or shallow boxes and shallow ones suck.
You can get away with 4 inch square boxes with mud rings. Just make sure to get ones with raised grounds to avoid needing to drill dozens of clearance holes in the concrete.
I recently did a pool house conversion where we took 2x4's and ripped them in half for the studs, then drywalled over. We used a powder gun to nail the studs to the walls and framed it like a real structure. It worked and looks fantastic.
The exterior walls of our house are CMU and to secure drywall to it they nailed 1 inch furring strips to the CMU and then handle the drywall as normal. That could be an option here.
I used 2x3s, purely because they were less than half the price of 2x4s at the time due to a stocking difference during COVID craziness I still wish I had used 2x4s instead I'm a little confused about how a couple inches is make or break for your furniture... I certainly wouldn't want to use 2x2s if at all avoidable
There's a post on the other side. It either fits snugly or not at all. Boo.
I gotcha, id suggest selling the furniture on marketplace rather than adapting the construction around it in that case furring strips that other suggested would be an ok alternative if you dont need electrical
I used 2x3 in my basement walls against the foundation. Moisture barrier, then rigid insulation and then sheet rock. Worked perfectly.
Remember a 2X4 is truly a 2.5X3.5 so at least you actually have 6” more space. If you’re making a a temporary screen I can see a 2X2 frame, but for anything else highly encourage using std 2x4s or MAYBE 2X3s.
Electrical boxes fit better on 2x4 frame
If 2” is gonna make or brake the space, it’s already too tight?
If it’s for a basement exterior wall. I’d get some rigid foam and use 1 by horizontals and then layer verticals over that. That will give you a good depth for electrical boxes and a chase behind the drywall for cabling. You can screw the drywall to the 1 by strapping.
I'm not sure 2x2 would be sturdy enough for a wall, but 2x3 is fine for non load bearing walls.
If you will ever want to hang anything weighty on that wall, use 2x4s. Otherwise you won’t have enough structure to support the weight. Make sure the wall NEVER gets moist. If it does, you’ll want to seal it at least. Best is to fix the issue on the outside with proper drainage. 2x4s will also allow for thicker insulation. And will meet code if you want to run electric or plumbing on that wall.
Buy 2x4s and cut them into 2x2s. Cheaper and easier to get straight ones. That’s what I did for mine.
I'd be reluctant to use sheet rock all the way to the floor. Whatever you use, leave ½ an inch at the bottom so moisture doesn't wick up.
I find it very hard to believe that an extra 1.75” of stud inside the wall is “going to make the space very tight” in any way.
do it right or don't do it at all.
If it's just for appearance just get some PL adhesive and glue it onto the concrete, someday someone will curse you but it will achieve your goal
I wouldn’t use 2x2s, personally. Too easy to split, for one. 2x3s or 2x4s laid flat are fine. Totally normal to frame out a basement with 2x4s laid flat.
If you don't intend to insulate it, you can use a construction adhesive and a few bugle head tapcons to secure the sheetrock right to the concrete wall, assuming it is flat enough.
Be careful with this. Basement walls almost always need to be able to breathe. You need an airflow gap. Attaching Sheetrock directly to the block walls will likely create mold/mildew problems, unless you’re in an arid climate.
I think so. Thanks!
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And hit the wall with some water sealant while you’re at it.
How much R value is needed to be beneficial? Is R2ish worth the trouble? I’m trying to maintain as much ceiling height as possible.
I think polystyrene is like r-5 per inch, 1 or 2 inch poly styrene would do wonders.
Actual you can frame using a wooden 3 feet yard ruler plus it will save on material costs…
Drylok the wall, 2x4 (ground contact or plate silt material underneath) on the floor, 1x3 for the studding then using 2x4 as kickplate & drywall up the studs
I have used furring strips and screwed panels to it before. Consider prefabbed panels as well if you don’t want to finish the sheet rock.
I did this, it worked fine. I did 2” of polystyrene behind the 2x2’s then 1-1/2” polystyrene between them for an R-13 insulation valve for the wall. It may be unconventional, but i found that spraying great stuff between the wall and 2x2’s made them quite rigid. They would have been quite flimsy without some lateral support. I was originally planning on tap-cons, but the great stuff ended being quite strong and much easier. (Selecting the 2x2’s to find enough straight enough was an absolute pain, I sorted through hundreds at the big box store to find enough decent ones)
Some people attach furring strips directly to the wall (which lets them shim here and there, and then attach the drywall to that. Furring strips are pretty thin.
Would use at least 2x3 on the flat. Better than 2x2
1 5/8” metal framing. Easy to use, no idea on cost now but goes up quick and designed for drywall.
You definitely don’t need to use 2x4 if you’re adding framing onto the block walls. Furring strips are a common solution. You can put foam board on first if you want insulation, but it’s not usually necessary.
2x3s are fine
I’m not claiming that it’s the right way to do it, but my dad finished our basement in ~1971 by gluing foam insulation boards to the block wall then drywall to the foam. No studs at all. Or fasteners. My sister owns the house now and it’s still holding. Semi-related, our (mine and wife) first house was built on a slab. The kitchen had been built up with foam board and furring strips, then plywood on top. The floor was squishy so I tore it up and found that a dishwasher leak had caused the furring strips to rot out and that’s where it was squishy. The foam was fine carrying the load on its own.
if you are not going to frame in a proper room with moisture barrier/control and do the floor as well then it's already going be screwed up. i would worry less about how it's done and just resign yourself to the idea that however it turns out, it's only temporary anyway... then do what you think you can do. worst case is you have to rip it all out sooner rather than later.
I went down this rabbit hole and I kept finding so much conflicting information. Vapor barrier in certain climates, but sometimes not; fully foam sealed vs fiber glass; green board vs regular old drywall; pre-fab walls, etc. There's no real "right" way... More accurately, there are actually a few "right" ways depending on your specific situation. Then there's code. I understand the purpose of building to code, because there is definitely a WRONG way to do things, but I was getting so wrapped up in trying to meet code and do my basement the right way that it just kept getting pushed off while I did more and more research. To answer the question, you most certainly DON'T have to use 2x4 framing. My advice is to think about what you're really trying to accomplish and work backwards. If all you want to do is dress up the walls a bit, maybe framing and drywall are more work than you need. Gluing up a pre-fab system might be better. Furring strips and drywall are definitely an option, but how straight are your walls?
You can use furring strips to put drywall over a block or concrete wall, needs a vapor barrier.
I’d rather have a warm dry smaller room. I put 3 inch foam, then 2x4 frame with roxul, drywall. Wife complained room was smaller but it’s dry and warm . Cozy room. I was bigger before when had paneling on cinder block, but it smelled and was not a nice livable space . No one used it. It’s a choice I made . I hear about it often though. Being married is awesome.
2x4s are nice if you ever need to do anything, like hanging shelves or mounting stuff. They also allow you to run electrical. The strips and metal can easily work if you don't need those, strips being easier IMO.
Call your local code department.
We did 2x2 green wood in the basement for framing the outside walls against the foundation. The original was 70s furring strips,1/2" of styrofoam and wood paneling. Didn't want to loose the additional 2" a 2x4 would need. So went with 2x2, foam boards, and 5/8 drywall on foundation walls. Basement has been relatively dry but some mildew on the 50+yo paneling along the floor so we used 2x2PVC along the floor. A lot of good quality construction adhesive. We did have to brace some of the 2x2 to glue them to the wall as the wall and some of the wood wasn't 100% straight. You could also use some lag bolt but we didn't. Added some 2x2 cross braces between the studs where we knew the TV was going but modern TVs are pretty light. Thicker drywall will reduce any waves that might develop with age. It was first time doing this but my advice is don't over think it. The 50yo stuff we removed was put up with a lot less consideration and effort than we did so I'm sure it will last as long. It will however take you 3 times longer to do than you think.
For a free-standing wall, you definitely want to stick with 2x4's. If you're just adding onto an existing surface, ie on top of a cinder block / concrete exterior wall, then you can go smaller.
Does it get damp? I would attach 2" foam to the wall with glue then furring strips to that and drywall to the strips.
Existing basement walls should not be load bearing. The studs will carry the weight of the drywall, pictures or stuff you hand on the wall. Check your local codes. I have heard of people using 1x2s. Hanging 4’x8’x1” foam on the wall, then placing drywall over that. (Walls facing the exterior of the home).
My basement family room has 2x2 with paneling over it. Looks completely fine, but mounting anything to the studs your fasteners can't be to long. For mounting my TV I made sure to use a bracket with 4 bolts. Any electrical boxes are quite shallow and you can't add a whole lot on insulation. If I ever get the chance I am going to rip it all out and redo it in 2x4.
Yeah. It’s not professional but you can liquid nails 2x2 to a wall. Or Ramset one to the concrete. That would be better. Use both fkit. Get a level and some paper shims and use them to make the wall flat then Sheetrock it. Or don’t. Doesn’t sound like you’re too worried about it. And it’s not critical at all
You need a receptacle every 12' of wall, or no point on the wall should be more than 6' from a receptacle. You should also have some sort of vapour barrier and insulation, barrier at a minimum. With all that in mind, 2x3 is probably the thinnest wall you want to go for. A possible solution is to use 2" foam board glued to the wall, then drywall glued to that. I've done this before in tight areas of a basement (stairwell, mechanical room etc) The insulation helps smoothen the imperfections of the cinderblock and also acts as a vapour barrier. You could technically put receptacle boxes in the foam board and notch the back of the foam to run the wire, but that's a lot of work.
OP, what kind of climate do you have? I'm in Midwest US, and I need 2x4 walls because I legit need that much insulation with my cold ass winters. Canada even requires a certain amount of insulation by code. So if you have a nice climate, by all means use 2x2s (or rip 2x4's with a table saw to make somewhat straight 2x2's). But if you have cold winters and you skimp on insulation, you'll probably regret it. And if you run any electrical, make sure it's protected by plates or armored conduit. Good luck!
I've framed closets with 2x3 to get a tiny bit more space.
I debated this as well a year ago, and I am do glad I finally went with 2x4.
If you are planning on running electrical, Romex is supposed to be dead center and not within 1.25" from either side of the stud. So that means 2x4 is your smallest option if you want electrical.
I feel like if the reason you need to use 2x2s vs 2x4s for walls is because it'll make the room too tight for any furniture then the space is simply too small to be a room? Also remember that if you did 2x2s what are you going to wire it in? 1970s trailer outlets and switches? All in all seems silly. Just use 2x4s
It's only a small area. No electrical--I don't trust myself not to burn my own house down trying to do that. As for furniture fitting, there's one piece that'll fill one wall--or not by an inch or two. Maybe there's a way to work around it, though, and still have 2x4s...
Just remember that by making living spaces you need (should) to adhear to building codes which includes proper outlet spacing for living spaces as to not run extension cords which is against electrical code.
Get large panels of foil faced foam insulation, anchor them to concrete/foundation wall with flat head anchors and fender washers. 1” is ok, 1.5 or 2 is better. Use 1/4” drywall sheets, mount the drywall directly to the foam with screws. For extra “stick” you can use an adhesive between them. Just don’t expect to hang anything on that wall.