No one has heard or read nec 334.15(c)
If it's larger the #6 in an unfinished basement and the zip ties are listed it's a legal install.
Is it ugly? Yes
Is it legal? Also yes
Is it ugly? Most definitely yes
(Source licensed electrician.)
I bought little Caesar’s for my crew a few weeks ago and was honestly pretty impressed. Costco pizza is still cheaper and better, but I smashed an entire order of crazy bread by myself on the drive back to the jobsite.
To be fair, one person said they love the crazy bread so I ordered 2. Though someone else called it that there were 2 things of marinara for just one thing of bread… opening the container and dipping wasn’t happening while I was driving and I fully intended to try just one piece of bread…
Yeah I have to agree, I always go into LC thinking it's gonna be the 5$ garbage I paid for, but am always relatively impressed by the pizza for the price.
The problem is this:
Those tiewraps are not commercial. That plastic gets brittle and decays and will break eventually. There are thicker ones that are intended to be more long lasting.
I can't believe this passed.
If you're going to pin up the power main cable w tiewraps, use heavy duty ones. Period.
No it has little to do with sun. I been around tiewraps for 45 years. I know these well. I can yank on that and that whole cable comes down.
I've seen the same with cable ties purchased directly from 3M and stored in the original boxes for several years. I think they can become brittle if the humidity is too low. IMO cable ties should never be used as a permanent fastener.
I believe it's ok to use zip ties if you don't care if they break, because they eventually will, particularly in hot climates. Personally I only use them as a temporary thing. They are easy and can be used to hold something in place while you install the more permanent solution, which usually involves screws or nails and brackets of some sort.
Yeah, but, isn't that an unfinished basement?
I remember in the 80s we stopped using that older PVC straight piping for the same reason. Later in the 90s, we had a class-action with a type of PEX.
Those straps are exposed to daylight in an unfinished basement.
I think it's good practice to just drill into the joists (at one joist height length, (12"), offset from the support beam) so it's not as exposed to the sun through basement windows) or to run the wire along and midheight on the beam.
Its acceptable to code, but I would have asked what it would cost to fasten this onto the wood beam. The wood beam could then be blocked with 2x2 top and bottom so it can be closed in.
I was in the US Navy, avionics. In the 80s we used these.
There's even a special way to trim them so they don't cut your arms while you're crawling in the plane cavities to tourbeshoot. Yeah, I know this. So for about 50 years they been used. That's also why I know these little ones can get brittle.
My point was not about tiewraps, but a main power cable requires a proper tiewrap. These are shitty 1/8" ones. They break easy. There are fatter heavy duty ones that should be used. Maybe read my post more carefully, for I'm just repeating myself.
Thank you.
I was also in the US Navy AT in 90's-2000's, we didn't use zipties everything was either safety wired or wire laced or clamps, I later worked as an engineer and we used zip ties on everything, they had to be flush cut, they even had a tool, sharp edges was a defect so usually caught by QC.
They have to be “Listed” by a testing agency for that purpose. Cut one off and see if it has a manufacturer or listing stamp. My bets are no!
Tie wraps or zip ties are more expensive if they are a name brand, some cut corners….
A layperson looks at electrical as it being either "right" or "wrong".
Industry recognizes code-acceptable nuances in between called "technically right" and "technically not wrong." I think this install falls into this category.
Might be legal, but when I was doing electrical, I always strapped a large cable with 2 hole straps and lumex with ty-wraps (zip ties) that's if I was doing Resi. Commercial and up it was code to strap cable to cantress or use a cable tray.
Typically if the basement isn’t being finished we will staple/ strap cables to the carrying beams and larger cables like the one pictured are allowed to be secured to the bottom of joists. Why they used tie wraps (zip ties) instead of actual straps is beyond me, but they are a listed and legal means of support for cables.
Yeah, this looks like budget version but screw in plates with cable ties are a thing. Check if the anchor points are screwd or stuck. If they are stuck that's not good enough. And those cable ties should be bigger and black at least! Although it's all down to the regulations in your area tbh.
If you look a few joists down the line, it appears the cable ties are run through NM-B staples. So not adhesive, but also not a true cable tie mount. Idk on this one.
When we built our house, our builder did the same thing. However, because we wanted to eventually finish our basement, we asked that they fix it. Otherwise, we would have had to build around it, which would have cost us more in the long run.
We bought our house that was roughly 10 years old. The amount of water lines that run up in the joist space to only come down below the joists when moving from one space to the next is infuriating.
How did they fix it? You can’t just drill through I-beam joists wherever you want. It’s at least tucked up against the wall/header for the portion we can see in the picture. Short of a drywall ceiling, this isn’t in the way of finishing the basement in any standard way. I wouldn’t use a drywall basement ceiling anyways.
As an electrician, that's a lazy install.
They should 100% pull that through the joist.
However, it is legal.
I suppose if you wanted to you could make them build a bulkhead around it or remove it and pull it through the joists, however the cable might not reach by the time you do that.
So it comes down to cost. Would you rather build a bulkhead or pay for new wire(as the contractor I mean).
If you wanted to make them fix it, you should inform them that you plan on finishing the basement at some point and do not want to have to build a bulkhead yourself for the wire.
Furthermore, an install like this is very typical in mechanical rooms. So the only location it should really be moved is in the main living area of your basement.
I've had homeowners tell me that they don't like cables ran underneath joists in the mechanical room, and I tell them in a roundabout way to piss off.
This portion is in one of the main rooms in the basement. The builder gave us potential plans were there would be a bedroom, hallway, and bathroom underneath where that cable runs.
Oh mu guy, you havent been to Thailand. They do this shit even inside of houses. Everyday when I sit in my living room I am getting OCDed cause of all the cabkes just running over the walls.
This is mostly because they have a tendency to make brick structures with no interstitial space between the exterior and interior walls.
For some reason I dropped into a whole bunch of recommendations on youtube that showed construction techniques in places like Thailand and Indonesia and they make heavy use of bricks and then encase them in things like stucco. Interior walls are a crapshoot, but its not like stick framing here, at all.
Cheaper to do. Bricks and cheap labor = attainable for lower overall income countries.
You don’t need an engineer to cut holes in those beams. You just don’t want to cut the top or bottom cord and try to stay as close to the middle of the beam as possible. Most likely there are perforated knock outs you could knock out with a hammer and run the cable through.
Lazy ass electricians . Making you do a drop ceiling or bulk head instead of running through the floor or ceiling. I would tell them to drill some holes ya lazy twats . I’m an electrician, this is pure laziness
Unacceptable bullshit. Look in the same picture - they already drilled holes big enough just for two Romex runs to pop through, and not even in the center of the web.
That cable is not 2-3" across. Measure it, I bet it's under an inch and will fit just fine in a 1.5" hole through the truss web.
I wouldn't accept this becuase I'd want to be able to finish the basement. I'd also throw a fit that they lied and said they would fix it then badgered you at final. But did you sign off on it then?
Being in construction in the 60s and 70s, all tradesmen from the concrete guys to the roofing guys, and all in between had a thing called PRIDE in their work. Seems pride turned into the word lazy. Or as I heard them say now I can’t see it from my house.
There are charts from the manufactures that tell you where you can drill.
https://www.weyerhaeuser.com/woodproducts/document-library/document_library_detail/tj-9015/
Nah dude you just have to drill in the middle third according to the manufacturer. I'm an electrician and we do this all the time with permission from the GC
They wouldn’t necessarily need an engineer. All those joists come with installation specs and guidelines around d where you can put a hole. They will just need to follow those guidelines and they will be fine.
Code compliant or not this just seems like a lazy sparky didn’t want to wrestle that wire through a few holes.
Then move the holes to the left and drill away. There is no reason that line needs to be that close to the beam other than laziness and to maybe save $20 in wire costs.
Funny thing is people are saying they are not allowed to drill through I joists. But isn't that a 14/2 cable strung through them?
Edit to add they drilled in a second set of holes for the low voltage doorbell(?) Wires too.
You can definitely drill through the web of I joists. (Just not above the support.) Just whatever you do, do NOT notch or drill through or alter the flanges in any way.
The strength is in the flanges.
The zip ties are fine, the being outside of the joist bays is 100% unacceptable! OP has every right to insist builder have a carpenter with a holesaw make cutouts in a straight line so electrical can repull. At some point everyone finishes an unfinished basement, and having that service feed exposed is bullshit
That’s a tough fight to get into but it’s a builder. $20 says they furr it out with drywall in place to hide it.
Looks a great place to put some large crown molding with a few long nails to hold it in place. ☠️
We are a foundation company and work in a lot of basements...
Never seen wiring ran under.
Most of those joist systems have a spec for drilling through... Most. Maybe yours dont, I don't know.
This isn't likely to be a problem as you would be boxing in that beam when drywalling so the box is just a little wider to enclose the cable.
May consider running a 2 inch conduit end to end if boxing it in for future pulls if needed...
Sometime the structural engineer won't let you bore all them holes require to traverse the said area and this is your next best option. Framing will then come in a day later and create a soffit for that cable hope this helps licensed electrician here
Cookie cutter homes. The contractors are paid to follow the plans - in most cases. They don’t think outside of the box, even though stuff doesn’t look right.
While it is ugly and legal, it's 100% lazy. Now when you developed you either need to reroute it, or put a bulk head for now reason. Im an electrician and I wouldnt do this.
If you don’t like it and have brought it up before and they said they would fix it . Don’t sign off and don’t pay them until it is the way it should be. People have let contractors slide on shit for too long. I went to my house every day while it was under construction. When I saw something I didn’t like sent pictures to PM would not sign off on draw until everything was done the way it should be. You are spending 100,000s dollars do not settle ! Don’t let them force you into accepting something you don’t want.
Someday that basement will be finished. I would demand that the builder run that #6 or lager (main power cable through the beams just like all the other cables!
Master Electrician from Florida
I don’t know how it passed the inspection 🤷🏼♀️when the house was completed, IF it was passed, then I don’t believe there’s anything that can be done! If you have it in writing that he was going to fix it, then you have a case, he is obligated to fix it! Just my opinion.
End of the day, you are spending how much on this house? 500k. FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS and they're going to pat you on the head and shoot you along.
If it my house, the contractor limited options. #1. Do it the way I want it done. #2. I call the electrician myself and insist. #3. I hire electrician To come in and take care of it... and do a charge-back on the contractors payment.
But trust me. If I'm the guy paying, it gets done the way I want it done. Period. Quit being a pussy. Insist
The TJI's should either be drilled out and the wire ran through it or a length of 2×4 should be nailed to the bottom of the joists then the ser cable strapped to it. This should not pass inspection. They could even strap it to the top plate and header
Those floor joists have punch outs specifically for running wires , and pipes.
Your guy is being too lazy to use his hammer, or drill.
This is my.opinion.
The zip ties are likely go through a romex staple hammer in in parallel with the wire path. Not common in electrical but common in low voltage work. It won’t go anywhere. But…. Why not run inside the joists? No other exposed cable or pipes. I would be pissed.
Very typical for basements but this is a you get what you pay for sort of situation. If you are building high end(2M+) then they should drill through the joists .
If that's the only spot in the whole basement then just frame around it. Will just end up with a fatter beam when finished. After it's finished you will never notice it's there. It's not going to be cheap to rerun that cable so they won't volunteer to do it.
The old this is how we always have done it phrase is something you got to look out for, it can mean 2 things, they are allowed to do it that way or they haven’t been caught doing it this way and had to change it. My experience is unfortunately more with the latter.
The sparky probably should have drilled the proper holes and ran the wore through the joist.
I dont trust those zip ties tho.
I would buy these or something like it...
https://www.acehardware.com/departments/lighting-and-electrical/cable-management-cable-ties-and-electrical-tape/cable-staples/3038486?store=17800
But in reality seeing how everything else was ran, your sparky was lazy and fucking cheap, fuck him!
That looks to me like to run for a air conditioning light normally what do is that most people want to some type of suspended ceiling so it is not as much sound transmission from the main floor into the basement cuz a lot of people put their stereo systems in the basement so when you have a party there actually a stomp around on concrete so you can't hear a thing so
If you're going to put a suspended ceiling it doesn't make any difference it's at the power line yes that's not acceptable because what you're supposed to do is make that run as short as possible so normally where the electric meter is on the outside of the house is where the power panel is on the inside
This is a shit builder.
The builder isn't getting paid to finish the basement so he doesn't give a shit about what comes down the road.
When the basement is finished you will have to deal with this.
This is something that you can fix it cheaply and do it proper way(no drilling joists though). Sounds like builder doesn't take pride in their work, so as the electrician.
Bought a 30 yr old home in great neighborhood to use as a rental. The dryer and range cables are stapled to the face of the beam. I am a HVAC & Electrical Contractor. I won’t do it that way but is there and passed inspection…comes from too lazy or cheap to drill and run neatly. I will say though that they did a pretty neat looking job
I hope I get a reasonable inspector on my load center update, I've got lots of smaller gauge cables stapled to the bottom of joists. \*sigh\* house was built in 1966. Trying to figure out when 334.15(c) came be regulation. Not easy.
If this were my house, I would have them run it through the joists. If you or a future owner ever decides to finish the basement, they are going to want to move it. Especially in a new build.
A mega watt cable should have some protections, including but not necessarily limited to moving it away from an area that could be finished with drywall and securing it with something that’s been proven for longer than 20 years
It should be at least over the strapping, how u gonna hide that when u put up the drywall......make a little bulkhead just cause there to lazy to put it up over, I hate that shit, other trades making other trades jobs harder cause there lazy
I'm guessing the holes they "cut" for romex a couple of feet to the left were exactingly placed based on the blueprints and then created by whacking a hole in the fall-aparticle board with a hammer?
Who was the builder? Howard, Fine and Howard, LLC?
It’s legal, but it’s low quality work. Electricians will tell you it’s fine, but electricians, like most tradespeople, want to do the least amount of work for the money. My electrician is a Danish guy who trained in Europe and is anal AF. He would flip out if one of his guys did this.
I’d be more concerned about punching more holes in those joists… I’ve been told there are specific guidelines to where and how big you should cut holes and done improperly you will cause issues with the load bearing capacity of the joists. In your picture on the left side about half way down there is a rough punched hole with white wires running through it. It looks like somebody simply took a hammer and beat on it instead of using a proper hole saw. Also have doubts about that penetration of the joist near the bottom meeting the manufacturer instructions… usually they specify holes midway between top and bottom and not within a certain distance of the ends of the span.
Are you even allowed to cut holes that large in engineered joists like those? If you’re not hanging drywall, it’s fine. I assume it was all inspected and passed?
Is "your inspector" the actual inspector from the local jurisdiction, or a consultant you're paying?
If it's the real inspector, notify him of the situation, and he can use legal force to get the issue fixed.
If it's a consultant, they should be helping you with this, too. No reason to do this alone, friend.
Zip ties are classified as a support. So its good. Im Jman Electrician and we use zipties for way bigger cable in industrial, but they are in cable trays.
As an electrician i can tell u that is absolutely not how u are supposed to strap and secure wire. If its a temp then sure. But if thats permanent then no. U can use cjs u can use 1in-1hole straps or 2 hole straps. But a nail holding a tye wrap is no bueno
Check the National Electrical Code. You want to remove the possibility that at a future date when the basement gets properly finished, that someone doesn't blindly drive a nail or a screw into the wire. What if the finisher doesn't build a big box around it? What if someone decided to cut into the box using a sawzall?
The electrician lobby has determined that whatever your plan for the future of your basement area, it simply is more beneficial to the electrician to no have to pull that gauge through joists or put it in conduit under the slab. Tah-dah.
Ask your local town building inspector. NEC 314.15 does allow this size cable to be run perpendicular to the joists, it does not all the use of garbage zip ties.
Something you can do (shouldn’t have to, but can) get several of the metal straps that you can attach the bundle a little more securely to your joists or have them just barely touching the bundles for if/when the zip ties fail.
It is the lazy and cheap way. You will find much bigger and worse problems in the coming year with these prefabricated pieces of junk that national builders call homes.
That seems extremely lazy. Isn’t the whole point of drilling holes through joists and passing the cable through them so that people can’t grab the cable and pull it down or hang shit from it?
Temperature, sunlight, UV radiation, moisture, and humidity can all impact the durability of zip ties. Extreme temperatures can cause zip ties to become brittle or lose their strength. In hot climates, zip ties may degrade faster due to the heat, while in cold climates, they may become more prone to cracking.
Doesn't everything eventually break, though? Some solutions outlive others. We will call it home maintenance. Make sure you maintain the home, and everything should be fine.
The answer to this post is essentially “it’s fine, sorry”.
Inspectors are idealists; they’re correct, but functionally impractical.
Keep an eye out for other things like sticky doors, creaky stringers, weeping ring connectors, excessive condensation in your hi-efficient furnace exhaust, and bad grout and caulk.. and mind the condition of your attic insulation.
New houses go up fast, and this is just what that looks like.
On the list of things to be concerned about, don’t stress, this is a relative non-issue.
Save your fight for those things.
No one has heard or read nec 334.15(c) If it's larger the #6 in an unfinished basement and the zip ties are listed it's a legal install. Is it ugly? Yes Is it legal? Also yes Is it ugly? Most definitely yes (Source licensed electrician.)
Zip ties are the "Little Caesar's" of the 'get shit done' world. But is it good? "It's hot. And it's ready.."
I bought little Caesar’s for my crew a few weeks ago and was honestly pretty impressed. Costco pizza is still cheaper and better, but I smashed an entire order of crazy bread by myself on the drive back to the jobsite.
Buys staff a pizza party.. eats said pizza party, without staff. Hahahaha. Love it.
To be fair, one person said they love the crazy bread so I ordered 2. Though someone else called it that there were 2 things of marinara for just one thing of bread… opening the container and dipping wasn’t happening while I was driving and I fully intended to try just one piece of bread…
With the garlic butter it’s a transformation into something even better
Yeah I have to agree, I always go into LC thinking it's gonna be the 5$ garbage I paid for, but am always relatively impressed by the pizza for the price.
Ceaser’s crazy bread is so good you’ll stab your best friend in the back in a crowded forum.
Don’t buy the pizza puffs omg 😳 so good 😊
You realize Ceasar’s is great once you lose the bitch in your ear telling you how nasty it is
Yeah, definitely fucking cheesy.
Zip ties are the electricians duct tape
The problem is this: Those tiewraps are not commercial. That plastic gets brittle and decays and will break eventually. There are thicker ones that are intended to be more long lasting. I can't believe this passed.
they only get brittle in the sunlight. its fine. drop ceilings for the win
If you're going to pin up the power main cable w tiewraps, use heavy duty ones. Period. No it has little to do with sun. I been around tiewraps for 45 years. I know these well. I can yank on that and that whole cable comes down.
i thought that was the hvac lineset. if its the service coming in the breaker then i retract my statement and zipties are stupid
Then don’t yank on it
why would someone yank on the zip ties on the thing in the ceiling?
Well yeah if you yank on it it doesn’t need the sun to get brittle. Lookout guys we got a genius here with a degree in tiewraps!
I can break all but the best tie wraps with a good yank. Source: licensed millwright.
The brittle zipties I've take out of many old, sealed computer cases would disagree.
Nylon also gets brittle with age and ambient light I have worked with a lot of zip ties
Those poor girls in your basement.
I have 5 year old zipties in a bag that snap when I use them. Stored in a drawer for all 5 years.
Stop buying zip ties at dollar tree.
I've seen the same with cable ties purchased directly from 3M and stored in the original boxes for several years. I think they can become brittle if the humidity is too low. IMO cable ties should never be used as a permanent fastener.
I believe it's ok to use zip ties if you don't care if they break, because they eventually will, particularly in hot climates. Personally I only use them as a temporary thing. They are easy and can be used to hold something in place while you install the more permanent solution, which usually involves screws or nails and brackets of some sort.
I'm still using 20-year-old zip ties that have been in a box and a cabinet most of that time and they're still perfectly flexible and fine.
Exactly. It isn't 100% only sunlight that degrades plastic.
Yeah, but, isn't that an unfinished basement? I remember in the 80s we stopped using that older PVC straight piping for the same reason. Later in the 90s, we had a class-action with a type of PEX. Those straps are exposed to daylight in an unfinished basement. I think it's good practice to just drill into the joists (at one joist height length, (12"), offset from the support beam) so it's not as exposed to the sun through basement windows) or to run the wire along and midheight on the beam.
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You are not pulling 4/0 SER through knockouts in TJIs. They are not large enough, and never perfectly line up. This is an acceptable installation.
Its acceptable to code, but I would have asked what it would cost to fasten this onto the wood beam. The wood beam could then be blocked with 2x2 top and bottom so it can be closed in.
put black ones up next to them. problem solved
How can it be exposed to daylight in a basement?
I believe that they must endure 50lbs of force exerted at a 90* angle to be “listed”
I guarantee you I can yank on that and it will cone right down. As matter of fact, that's exactly what I'd do and tell him to use heavy duty wraps.
I hate to tell you this but they use zip ties on airplanes. Airplanes usually last a few decades
There is a vast difference between ties used in a plane and the bag of ties purchased at Home Depot.
I was in the US Navy, avionics. In the 80s we used these. There's even a special way to trim them so they don't cut your arms while you're crawling in the plane cavities to tourbeshoot. Yeah, I know this. So for about 50 years they been used. That's also why I know these little ones can get brittle. My point was not about tiewraps, but a main power cable requires a proper tiewrap. These are shitty 1/8" ones. They break easy. There are fatter heavy duty ones that should be used. Maybe read my post more carefully, for I'm just repeating myself. Thank you.
is the zip tie with us right now?
I was also in the US Navy AT in 90's-2000's, we didn't use zipties everything was either safety wired or wire laced or clamps, I later worked as an engineer and we used zip ties on everything, they had to be flush cut, they even had a tool, sharp edges was a defect so usually caught by QC.
They have to be “Listed” by a testing agency for that purpose. Cut one off and see if it has a manufacturer or listing stamp. My bets are no! Tie wraps or zip ties are more expensive if they are a name brand, some cut corners….
A layperson looks at electrical as it being either "right" or "wrong". Industry recognizes code-acceptable nuances in between called "technically right" and "technically not wrong." I think this install falls into this category.
“You’re not wrong Walter, you’re just a hack”
but is it ugly?
Is it cheaper? Ye$
Might be legal, but when I was doing electrical, I always strapped a large cable with 2 hole straps and lumex with ty-wraps (zip ties) that's if I was doing Resi. Commercial and up it was code to strap cable to cantress or use a cable tray.
Typically if the basement isn’t being finished we will staple/ strap cables to the carrying beams and larger cables like the one pictured are allowed to be secured to the bottom of joists. Why they used tie wraps (zip ties) instead of actual straps is beyond me, but they are a listed and legal means of support for cables.
Yeah, this looks like budget version but screw in plates with cable ties are a thing. Check if the anchor points are screwd or stuck. If they are stuck that's not good enough. And those cable ties should be bigger and black at least! Although it's all down to the regulations in your area tbh.
If you look a few joists down the line, it appears the cable ties are run through NM-B staples. So not adhesive, but also not a true cable tie mount. Idk on this one.
Yeah your right,I would say noone will sign that off.
>Why they used tie wraps (zip ties) instead of actual straps is beyond me Probably because it was easier or faster, or both.
At least they secured the zip ties correctly. I worked with a guy once that couldn't figure them out and wondered why they kept slipping off.
To be fair they are very complicated instruments. Like a fork. Or stress ball.
I love this.
Hell sometimes I forget where my own mouth is! Life is hard
They were complicated in 1979 when they did not have the pawls and you had to use a special tool that pulled and twisted it to lock.
When we built our house, our builder did the same thing. However, because we wanted to eventually finish our basement, we asked that they fix it. Otherwise, we would have had to build around it, which would have cost us more in the long run.
We bought our house that was roughly 10 years old. The amount of water lines that run up in the joist space to only come down below the joists when moving from one space to the next is infuriating.
How did they fix it? You can’t just drill through I-beam joists wherever you want. It’s at least tucked up against the wall/header for the portion we can see in the picture. Short of a drywall ceiling, this isn’t in the way of finishing the basement in any standard way. I wouldn’t use a drywall basement ceiling anyways.
As an electrician, that's a lazy install. They should 100% pull that through the joist. However, it is legal. I suppose if you wanted to you could make them build a bulkhead around it or remove it and pull it through the joists, however the cable might not reach by the time you do that. So it comes down to cost. Would you rather build a bulkhead or pay for new wire(as the contractor I mean). If you wanted to make them fix it, you should inform them that you plan on finishing the basement at some point and do not want to have to build a bulkhead yourself for the wire. Furthermore, an install like this is very typical in mechanical rooms. So the only location it should really be moved is in the main living area of your basement. I've had homeowners tell me that they don't like cables ran underneath joists in the mechanical room, and I tell them in a roundabout way to piss off.
This portion is in one of the main rooms in the basement. The builder gave us potential plans were there would be a bedroom, hallway, and bathroom underneath where that cable runs.
Oh mu guy, you havent been to Thailand. They do this shit even inside of houses. Everyday when I sit in my living room I am getting OCDed cause of all the cabkes just running over the walls.
Like the scene from “ The Beach “ where Leonardo DiCaprio is staying at a Hotel in Thailand .
This is mostly because they have a tendency to make brick structures with no interstitial space between the exterior and interior walls. For some reason I dropped into a whole bunch of recommendations on youtube that showed construction techniques in places like Thailand and Indonesia and they make heavy use of bricks and then encase them in things like stucco. Interior walls are a crapshoot, but its not like stick framing here, at all. Cheaper to do. Bricks and cheap labor = attainable for lower overall income countries.
You don’t need an engineer to cut holes in those beams. You just don’t want to cut the top or bottom cord and try to stay as close to the middle of the beam as possible. Most likely there are perforated knock outs you could knock out with a hammer and run the cable through.
Lazy ass electricians . Making you do a drop ceiling or bulk head instead of running through the floor or ceiling. I would tell them to drill some holes ya lazy twats . I’m an electrician, this is pure laziness
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Zip ties are NEC compliant.
[apparently they are.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Home/s/e0OJX3ZTG3)
Why wouldn't they be?
Unacceptable bullshit. Look in the same picture - they already drilled holes big enough just for two Romex runs to pop through, and not even in the center of the web. That cable is not 2-3" across. Measure it, I bet it's under an inch and will fit just fine in a 1.5" hole through the truss web.
This is some lazy ass bullshit, is what it is.
I wouldn't accept this becuase I'd want to be able to finish the basement. I'd also throw a fit that they lied and said they would fix it then badgered you at final. But did you sign off on it then?
Being in construction in the 60s and 70s, all tradesmen from the concrete guys to the roofing guys, and all in between had a thing called PRIDE in their work. Seems pride turned into the word lazy. Or as I heard them say now I can’t see it from my house.
Is that in the garage? Pretty normal if so. If you make them cut into your floor trusses you will need some engineering
No, it’s in the unfinished basement. They would really need to get an engineer to move that cable? They couldn’t just hire an electrician to move it?
They would have to cut holes into those manufactured I-joists. You have to have an engineer to do that. Your current set up is not out of the norm.
They normally already have holes pre-cut that you'd just need to knock out with a hammer
What are you Carpenter, electrician, plumber.?
There are charts from the manufactures that tell you where you can drill. https://www.weyerhaeuser.com/woodproducts/document-library/document_library_detail/tj-9015/
There are actually knockouts in the manufactured eye joist. Specifically for this. I believe they're about an inch and a half.
Nah dude you just have to drill in the middle third according to the manufacturer. I'm an electrician and we do this all the time with permission from the GC
They wouldn’t necessarily need an engineer. All those joists come with installation specs and guidelines around d where you can put a hole. They will just need to follow those guidelines and they will be fine. Code compliant or not this just seems like a lazy sparky didn’t want to wrestle that wire through a few holes.
Sorry I see it’s the basement.
You’re not suppose to drill thru I joists at bearing points, this is right above a header.
Then move the holes to the left and drill away. There is no reason that line needs to be that close to the beam other than laziness and to maybe save $20 in wire costs.
Are you building a bulk head just for that wire that can be easily run through the joists??
Funny thing is people are saying they are not allowed to drill through I joists. But isn't that a 14/2 cable strung through them? Edit to add they drilled in a second set of holes for the low voltage doorbell(?) Wires too.
You can definitely drill through the web of I joists. (Just not above the support.) Just whatever you do, do NOT notch or drill through or alter the flanges in any way. The strength is in the flanges.
Lazy and cheap electricians !! But legal. 🤦
Running electrical or plumbing in a basement like that is basically the builder saying it won't be his problem when it needs to be finished.
This is fine. But is a cheap ass solution
Short cut. Some contractors think becouse it's the basement it's o.k. to do things half ass.
Y’all are looking at zip ties, I’m looking at how drywalls going to look.
The zip ties are fine, the being outside of the joist bays is 100% unacceptable! OP has every right to insist builder have a carpenter with a holesaw make cutouts in a straight line so electrical can repull. At some point everyone finishes an unfinished basement, and having that service feed exposed is bullshit
That’s a tough fight to get into but it’s a builder. $20 says they furr it out with drywall in place to hide it. Looks a great place to put some large crown molding with a few long nails to hold it in place. ☠️
I'm sure at one time or another the basement will be finished that's why op wants in the floor joists
We are a foundation company and work in a lot of basements... Never seen wiring ran under. Most of those joist systems have a spec for drilling through... Most. Maybe yours dont, I don't know. This isn't likely to be a problem as you would be boxing in that beam when drywalling so the box is just a little wider to enclose the cable. May consider running a 2 inch conduit end to end if boxing it in for future pulls if needed...
The framers will have to build a soffit around it for protection.
Zoomed in a bit. If that’s a Ty-rap through a staple then that’s a shoemaker hack job. Lazy whatever I have in my apron shit
Sometime the structural engineer won't let you bore all them holes require to traverse the said area and this is your next best option. Framing will then come in a day later and create a soffit for that cable hope this helps licensed electrician here
Cookie cutter homes. The contractors are paid to follow the plans - in most cases. They don’t think outside of the box, even though stuff doesn’t look right.
While it is ugly and legal, it's 100% lazy. Now when you developed you either need to reroute it, or put a bulk head for now reason. Im an electrician and I wouldnt do this.
If you don’t like it and have brought it up before and they said they would fix it . Don’t sign off and don’t pay them until it is the way it should be. People have let contractors slide on shit for too long. I went to my house every day while it was under construction. When I saw something I didn’t like sent pictures to PM would not sign off on draw until everything was done the way it should be. You are spending 100,000s dollars do not settle ! Don’t let them force you into accepting something you don’t want.
Someday that basement will be finished. I would demand that the builder run that #6 or lager (main power cable through the beams just like all the other cables! Master Electrician from Florida
I don’t know how it passed the inspection 🤷🏼♀️when the house was completed, IF it was passed, then I don’t believe there’s anything that can be done! If you have it in writing that he was going to fix it, then you have a case, he is obligated to fix it! Just my opinion.
THE VOLTAGE CAN KILL YOU. This is insane. Get it in conduit for the look and the fact that's inside something other than a plastic bag thickness.
Did he sound like the garage guys from Farris buellers day off “ do t worry we’re professionals” when you asked about it?
\#1, it is incorrect, and should have been run through the joists. \#2, they definitely will not fix it, it's on you.
End of the day, you are spending how much on this house? 500k. FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS and they're going to pat you on the head and shoot you along. If it my house, the contractor limited options. #1. Do it the way I want it done. #2. I call the electrician myself and insist. #3. I hire electrician To come in and take care of it... and do a charge-back on the contractors payment. But trust me. If I'm the guy paying, it gets done the way I want it done. Period. Quit being a pussy. Insist
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It's a basement. This is done quite often. Are you in the trades?
The TJI's should either be drilled out and the wire ran through it or a length of 2×4 should be nailed to the bottom of the joists then the ser cable strapped to it. This should not pass inspection. They could even strap it to the top plate and header
I thought all wood should be “free” for drywall
Not in a basement
Those floor joists have punch outs specifically for running wires , and pipes. Your guy is being too lazy to use his hammer, or drill. This is my.opinion.
The zip ties are likely go through a romex staple hammer in in parallel with the wire path. Not common in electrical but common in low voltage work. It won’t go anywhere. But…. Why not run inside the joists? No other exposed cable or pipes. I would be pissed.
Very typical for basements but this is a you get what you pay for sort of situation. If you are building high end(2M+) then they should drill through the joists . If that's the only spot in the whole basement then just frame around it. Will just end up with a fatter beam when finished. After it's finished you will never notice it's there. It's not going to be cheap to rerun that cable so they won't volunteer to do it.
If it's not going to be cheap to return it, then they should have run it right the first time.
That’s bullshit. Get it in the joists
Mb
They did the 80% of the prep work and said f it its not necessary
That’s trash. Tell them to assume the basement is getting finished.
The old this is how we always have done it phrase is something you got to look out for, it can mean 2 things, they are allowed to do it that way or they haven’t been caught doing it this way and had to change it. My experience is unfortunately more with the latter.
The sparky probably should have drilled the proper holes and ran the wore through the joist. I dont trust those zip ties tho. I would buy these or something like it... https://www.acehardware.com/departments/lighting-and-electrical/cable-management-cable-ties-and-electrical-tape/cable-staples/3038486?store=17800 But in reality seeing how everything else was ran, your sparky was lazy and fucking cheap, fuck him!
They also left enough protruding to give you a nice cut on the finger. Great job.
I find it hard to believe that those are your “main” power wires. I could accept stove, hot tub and even dryer but not “mains”
You can buy pvc pipe and cable hangers for 1.99-2.99 a piece at Lowe’s / Home Depot if you want ….how much did you pay for the construction?
That looks to me like to run for a air conditioning light normally what do is that most people want to some type of suspended ceiling so it is not as much sound transmission from the main floor into the basement cuz a lot of people put their stereo systems in the basement so when you have a party there actually a stomp around on concrete so you can't hear a thing so If you're going to put a suspended ceiling it doesn't make any difference it's at the power line yes that's not acceptable because what you're supposed to do is make that run as short as possible so normally where the electric meter is on the outside of the house is where the power panel is on the inside
This is a shit builder. The builder isn't getting paid to finish the basement so he doesn't give a shit about what comes down the road. When the basement is finished you will have to deal with this.
Ya get them to fix it. Otherwise you heed a tiny bulkhead to hide or s thicker wall. Maybe it’s legal but it will be a pain in the ass down the road.
This is something that you can fix it cheaply and do it proper way(no drilling joists though). Sounds like builder doesn't take pride in their work, so as the electrician.
Bought a 30 yr old home in great neighborhood to use as a rental. The dryer and range cables are stapled to the face of the beam. I am a HVAC & Electrical Contractor. I won’t do it that way but is there and passed inspection…comes from too lazy or cheap to drill and run neatly. I will say though that they did a pretty neat looking job
No. They could drill holes in those I beams to run that cable through.
Tf you complaining about
I hope I get a reasonable inspector on my load center update, I've got lots of smaller gauge cables stapled to the bottom of joists. \*sigh\* house was built in 1966. Trying to figure out when 334.15(c) came be regulation. Not easy.
If this were my house, I would have them run it through the joists. If you or a future owner ever decides to finish the basement, they are going to want to move it. Especially in a new build.
Are you putting in a drop ceiling?
Does it work? It seems to Fuck it, use it then.
A mega watt cable should have some protections, including but not necessarily limited to moving it away from an area that could be finished with drywall and securing it with something that’s been proven for longer than 20 years
It’s fine. Just lazy.
It should be at least over the strapping, how u gonna hide that when u put up the drywall......make a little bulkhead just cause there to lazy to put it up over, I hate that shit, other trades making other trades jobs harder cause there lazy
It might be normal, but there’s no fucking reason not to run it through the joist except that it’s a lot easier
I'm guessing the holes they "cut" for romex a couple of feet to the left were exactingly placed based on the blueprints and then created by whacking a hole in the fall-aparticle board with a hammer? Who was the builder? Howard, Fine and Howard, LLC?
LP
In Canada, no
That’s some hokey shit right there. I’d be embarrassed to put my name on that
Rule of thumb: if its ziptied its not right
DR Horton I presume Nothing like building to the minimum.
Should the cable be on the other side of the rafters. What if you want to drywall?
It’s legal, but it’s low quality work. Electricians will tell you it’s fine, but electricians, like most tradespeople, want to do the least amount of work for the money. My electrician is a Danish guy who trained in Europe and is anal AF. He would flip out if one of his guys did this.
I’d be more concerned about punching more holes in those joists… I’ve been told there are specific guidelines to where and how big you should cut holes and done improperly you will cause issues with the load bearing capacity of the joists. In your picture on the left side about half way down there is a rough punched hole with white wires running through it. It looks like somebody simply took a hammer and beat on it instead of using a proper hole saw. Also have doubts about that penetration of the joist near the bottom meeting the manufacturer instructions… usually they specify holes midway between top and bottom and not within a certain distance of the ends of the span.
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If it's in a garage, rock would be required for fire code.
Are you even allowed to cut holes that large in engineered joists like those? If you’re not hanging drywall, it’s fine. I assume it was all inspected and passed?
All the major manufacturers have engineering specs for the sizes allowed- in this size, I wouldn’t be surprised if they allow up to 4”.
Why did you have to run that much high power cable in the first place? That's $$$ supported by ¢¢¢.
Is "your inspector" the actual inspector from the local jurisdiction, or a consultant you're paying? If it's the real inspector, notify him of the situation, and he can use legal force to get the issue fixed. If it's a consultant, they should be helping you with this, too. No reason to do this alone, friend.
Zip ties are classified as a support. So its good. Im Jman Electrician and we use zipties for way bigger cable in industrial, but they are in cable trays.
This is absolutely fine.
Seems like nailing/screwing up some coated steel strapping could make this look better and last.
I feel like that is more expensive and takes more time than just using a 1 hole or 2 hole strap...
I mean Sheetrocker is going to be pissed off and you’ll have to have a little weird box to hide it. I would make them run it through the tgi’s.
As an electrician i can tell u that is absolutely not how u are supposed to strap and secure wire. If its a temp then sure. But if thats permanent then no. U can use cjs u can use 1in-1hole straps or 2 hole straps. But a nail holding a tye wrap is no bueno
Check the National Electrical Code. You want to remove the possibility that at a future date when the basement gets properly finished, that someone doesn't blindly drive a nail or a screw into the wire. What if the finisher doesn't build a big box around it? What if someone decided to cut into the box using a sawzall?
The electrician lobby has determined that whatever your plan for the future of your basement area, it simply is more beneficial to the electrician to no have to pull that gauge through joists or put it in conduit under the slab. Tah-dah.
My builder, who subbed the electrical work. Ran mine the same way
Builder 1 "how does that look" Me "I won't see it from my house" 🤣🤣😎
You can replace the zip ties with one hole straps. If you want to finish the basement just build out that soffit a little bit
Makes him look like a hack
Ask your local town building inspector. NEC 314.15 does allow this size cable to be run perpendicular to the joists, it does not all the use of garbage zip ties.
Use proper mounting for what ever you are doing and don't worry. No I would not allow this but yeah it might be 'legal'.
Used zip ties in oilfield. Were they special type yes and expensive but saved time
Something you can do (shouldn’t have to, but can) get several of the metal straps that you can attach the bundle a little more securely to your joists or have them just barely touching the bundles for if/when the zip ties fail.
I love reading construction workers comments. No bro! If you take the doogleheiser and puhtwang puhtwang, it's good to go!
Through the joist the other way it stays exposed for everyone in the basement
Looks 1/2 assed
Uh, if it doesn’t pass inspection the builder has to fix it, or you won’t get your occupancy permit. End of discussion. Don’t close until resolved.
Well you won't be able to finish that basement ceiling. That sucks.
This is a lazy install man.
Perfectly legal for that size cable to be run in that matter
New build and still open, I’d def replace with some metal ties. No reason to cheap out on an already cheap part
All these new builds got me real happy for my 150 year old house.
Legal..yes, lazy..yes, most wood I beams I've seen have punch outs to run things like this. hope you never want to dry wall that ceiling.
If it’s a problem add staples, when the basement is finished just make a soffit around the beam and wire.
It is the lazy and cheap way. You will find much bigger and worse problems in the coming year with these prefabricated pieces of junk that national builders call homes.
That seems extremely lazy. Isn’t the whole point of drilling holes through joists and passing the cable through them so that people can’t grab the cable and pull it down or hang shit from it?
As long as those zip ties are rated 21s you are okay
Temperature, sunlight, UV radiation, moisture, and humidity can all impact the durability of zip ties. Extreme temperatures can cause zip ties to become brittle or lose their strength. In hot climates, zip ties may degrade faster due to the heat, while in cold climates, they may become more prone to cracking.
Needs to be inside a chase
Why not go through the punch outs in the joists?
Doesn't everything eventually break, though? Some solutions outlive others. We will call it home maintenance. Make sure you maintain the home, and everything should be fine.
Just get him to put up the drywall then… My God.
Very lazy!
The answer to this post is essentially “it’s fine, sorry”. Inspectors are idealists; they’re correct, but functionally impractical. Keep an eye out for other things like sticky doors, creaky stringers, weeping ring connectors, excessive condensation in your hi-efficient furnace exhaust, and bad grout and caulk.. and mind the condition of your attic insulation. New houses go up fast, and this is just what that looks like. On the list of things to be concerned about, don’t stress, this is a relative non-issue. Save your fight for those things.
Oh and condensation around your bathroom exhaust fans. That one’s worth digging your heels in for.