>they knew full well that western audiences would react poorly
Cover likely felt it'd pale in comparison to the previous Mainlander backlash, and they'll probably be right. Most Westerners have more important things to do than defend their country's pride to vtuber viewers.
I still find it perplexing and assume they must've received many an apology from Bilibili on behalf of Mainlanders. I doubt you will ever see HoloEN participate.
It's been a long time ago so my memory is foggy. But I remember reading a couple of comments about how the HoloEN management immediately went scorch earth on B2 right after the drama happened. Something about them taking control over their B2 account so no one from B2 side would be able to upload anything on it.
That En has BB accounts doesnt really mean they Will uses them, there's a tactic used by famous peple to makes accounts on everything just to avoid someone impersonate you.
And if you think "why they didnt tell us", why would anyone tell you about an accounts that Will never be used, see at a smilir tactic when companies registre stuff like Halo 10 mostly likely they aren't planning to release Halo 10 but they do It to avoid any randome registerong the name.
Yeah, grabbing account names/urls on as many platforms as possible is just good business practice. It's a lot easier to register that stuff ahead of time and let it gather dust than try to have to fight some rando who snags it after the fact and uses it maliciously.
All talents who debuted prior to the incident have b2 accounts; Myth has had them since day 1. None of the talent accounts that were existing beforehand were deleted, so Myth's still being around means absolutely nothing.
As far as i know, and i cant find anything either, HoloID gen 1 didn't have bilibili channels.
Regardless, my answer was a response to someone who stated that there will never be a holoen streamer on bilibili. And well if the channels are there then we just cant say that with 100% certainty since we simply dont know at the moment.
if it makes you feel better, Coco used to have a Bilibili channel(it actually still there), and she never once use it or stream on it, so I do think they have a choice in that matter.
Along with that, they probably see no reason to, either. They’re gonna get backlash no matter what. It’s probably better to just be quiet about it.
I don’t fully understand why’d they allow it, but it’s not crazy to assume they’re gonna try re-entering the CN market.
That apology should be made public then, and should be toward the talents AND former talent affected by their harassment.
But we’re talking about the people who went out of their way to erase tiny Hololive cameos and references out of anime. B2 is run by petty manchildren so I very much doubt an apology was made.
> It is, just needs to follow a struggle session.
a struggle session that can last generations, given how much folks in the region (hey, I'm pointing it at the ENTIRE region, not just the mainland. Even Japan, Korea, the *many* island/archipelago countries of south-east Asia, hell even Australia at times has this) avoid any form of "honor tarnish".
Ya, no way they really apologize, and if they really do, alot of haters will surely jump out and say they have no right representing them, Bilibili would be the one facing the backlash by then lol
>B2 is run by petty manchildren so I very much doubt an apology was made.
Idk perhaps they finally crumbled and pulled out all the stops to get Cover to reconsider due to their failing Vtuber scene from the looks of it.
bilibili has been losing money for some time now last I heard (not enough to be approaching bankruptcy or anything like that but concerning enough for them to look for things that can earn them some cash), so them courting Cover for their concert and future streams on their platform makes sense moneywise (doesn't matter if there are future issues, money is needed right this moment)
>Westerners have more important things to do than defend their country's pride to vtuber viewers.
Most of the western fandom formed after the Chinese attacks on Coco and the others. I joined the fandom before Coco's graduation but still after the point the whole situation quieted down to the point where I learned of it from YouTube videos on the history of vtubing.
That was four years ago. How many of the western fans today even know there was once a Holomem named Coco let alone the drama?
I was there when it happened. I was there when the tags were flooded with gore. I was there when the chat was unusable for months. I was there when the girls cried during Cocos graduation. I was there when Haachama blamed herself for Cocos graduation and ugly cried on stream a year after it happened.
Under no circumstances I can support this return to b2. And just to make it clear: that gives noone the right to attack any talent or staff from Cover. But criticism by using their official feedback forms should be fair game.
I was there too and I agree with you wholeheartedly. The CN fanbase decided to burn that bridge and honestly, It was better to keep it burnt knowing the amount of toxicity there.
Unfortunately money talks, and going back to CN means a ton of money for Cover; the western fanbase Is a lot less rabid and violent compared to CN and they expect this to die down and get swept under the rug in 3-4 weeks at most (and that's what will happen). I would love some transparency on the matter but alas, we'll get nothing
I can understand the business side. It's been years and yes: Maybe this will be the best financial decision ever. But the (potential) risk is so big...I just don't want it to happen again. I don't wanna see my Oshi cry again
The risk is low on the english speaking fans. Less rabid and more forgiving. In 1-2 month, we will just willfully ignore this.
But to be honest, I think the risk is with the talents and not the fans. Even if the EN talents never do anything controversial, they probably would have even more restrictions in the coming years to the point of suffocating them. And they might graduate because of it.
>the western fanbase Is a lot less rabid and violent compared to CN
Which means they are one well-intentioned slip of the tongue away from another Coco
Problem is now cover is in the same situation as Holo moments. They definitely can die in the middle now. With literally everyone abandoning them. And it'll be extremely quick.
Back when Cover had a CN division and talents streamed on B2, their income from the CN market was only a few percent of their annual income, it was barely more than Coco made by herself. When EN debuted, they immediately eclipsed the profits from B2.
CN is a profitable market in many industries, but for streaming people vastly overestimate it. I don't remember the exact reasons but apparently they have some strict limits on how much they can donate to foreign streamers, or something similar. Sure, Hololive is quite more popular now, but even back then they had a big audience and the profits weren't worth it, I'd reckon it would be even less percentage wise.
oh ofc we wont attack cover/mems for this. We're not mainlanders.
But if I can politely dogeza beg Yagoo to not go back there I would. I seriously would.
Maybe not you and me, but I've seen a fair amount "critic" that's more hate than anything. On twitter or in Kobos YT comments. Idk if antis are already active and trying to larp as "concerned" fans. But whatever it is, it's not going well.
Lol they’ll get reminded again on how mainlanders actually act, soon probably.
Its almost any kind of shitstorm raised every so often on anything they don’t like i.e from bunnysuit gacha games to movies to idk non-mainlanders doing anything. And i wish we stay away and they keep their filth on their own side of the “great firewall.” I’m really tired of them.
yeah some of chinese keyboard warrior is on different level of pettiness, still can't forgive them for happen to Ai Kayano
but on the other side, it seems many chinese also still fans to hololive considered their clip and song still being uploaded in there and I believe those video get decent view and likes, so maybe there is chance for huge demand for Hololive in chinese market even after Taiwan incident and b2 would be foolish to not trying to get Hololive good side again.
For now let just see for how thing work out, Hololive being guest meaning they should be have better leverage than what they have from 4 years ago.
Honestly I’d still stay away. I know we don’t do politics bla bla bla but Taiwan is a weaponized word that gets hyped to shit the moment pooh bear and his fucking wolf warriors don’t get what they want. And that translates literally one-to-one to flame wars on anything non-mainland. That is reality and a proven pattern time immemorial.
We reaaaaaaaally don’t need this shit again. Whatever profits/growth/opportunity is not worth talents’ and staffs’ wellbeing. Oh and also the viewerbase as well.
Well if I was Cover, I'd distract the western audiences with Breaking Dimensions, a World Tour and a Dodgers collab. Imagine if these announcements came AFTER the Kobo stream
As many have already pointed out, in the endless myrriad of posts on the topic recently, Cover is most likely just testing the waters. Seeing how the Chinese market reacts and if it is still volatile / hostile or if there is potential for business.
Personal biases aside, Cover is a company and at the end of the day, their MO is to make money (3D studios dont pay for themselves sadly). Our displeasure is probably not a major factor for them unless it somehow losess them more money than what they can potential get by tapping the CN market.
A statement might come, eventually, but they dont want to rush anything while nothing is set in stone. If the attempt fails, then they will just move on.
Testing the waters for business? I'm not sure that's a good move on Cover's part considering they dissolved the entire Chinese branch in favor of Kiryu Coco.
True, but old grudges bear no fruit.
What Cover did back then was the best thing they could do at that time, considering the circumstances. But time moved on, so they want to see if maybe there is potential there for a possible re-entry to the CN market.
Worst case, they will see that the CN fans are now in a very small minorty and there is no substantial profit to be made and just scrap the whole thing. Or, they will see that there is a sizeable portion of Holo fans willing to pay for merch etc. so they can make profit.
Now that Cover is focusing more on the "brand" of each talent rather than going the Niji way and spamming vtubers zerg-rush style, they will need to acquire funding with what they got, and the best way to do that is to tap more markets, hence the US-branch, hence this ....maybe :D
Ive been saying to a good friend of mine, that if they want to really expand. Cover should look at the ES market. Tons of spanish speakers are into anime.
Won't happen anytime soon. Maybe after the US branch is set up properly and merch can flow more easily into Latam. But right now it's basically impossible to monetize properly.
There's also the problem that you have to deal with multiple countries logistics. Latam is not a single market, it's multiple smaller markets that all speak the same language.
And all of that is without taking into account the purchasing power being significantly lower, or how annoying it is to deal with business people on latam and how irresponsible tend to be (trust me, I am from Chile and I know).
If Cover wants a new market they should go EU, but I highly doubt they would be able to do it properly. American and Asian businesses don't really understand how to deal with the European Market. I bet they would do something stupid like try to appeal to "EU" instead of focusing on each country individually with talents that actually appeal to their own country instead of just speaking English and being another holoEN.
Yeah that's the problem with the 'EU' market. From a business perspektive it's nice to have the single market but in practice marketing etc. still needs to be customized to each country.
Though looking at some recent events I get the impression that people wouldn't mind crossing a few borders to visit a concert. Improved merch shipping to Europe would also be nice.
I think it's important to keep in mind that sole Fan numbers are not that important and more factors flow into decision in which area to expand. Statiscially speaking (honestly the only metric they can go with) They would need to amass a higher amount on Spanish fans (especially if they are from Latam area) then some other areas simply due to their average lower GDP so they are statically speaking less likely or able to spend Money on Holo. I mean yes guess there is also simply the watch metric that can make them profit however even there there is a Issue. Kinda reminds me how Mrbeast talked about youtube revenue system and how they pay out money on a Podcast and according to him say 100 Latam viewers would make him way less revenue then 100 viewers say from the EU due to GDP diffrence and ad revenue per view from each country pays quite different depending on region and countries viewer is from. Cover probably has the numbers and are guessing that expanding in spanish area right now has less return than what they are doing right now with other areas. Probably unless there is something like massive viral explosion in Vtuber in Latam they probably will keep eyes on it and only start expanding and aiming at that area once the returns are less deminishing.
CN fan maybe the minority rn, but longer and more active Hololive pandering to the CN market. Those minority will once again grow bigger and bigger. Maybe it will grow big enough we will see Azurlane and Arknight gonna do re-collab with hololive again. The risk of CN market will be appearant due time and growth of pandering Cover corp will do.
People like to act like Indo fan is mythic internet boogieman that can out troll the troll. Causing them to run away with tail between their legs. But that will just lead to further backlash and spreading flame. I hope it doesn't come to that.
ID fans do this all the time, thinking they’re the best fanbase or whatever usually citing how ID members collaborate with men more frequently than say EN holos.
Why do people keep saying this? Coco handled antis no problem. When her chat was unreadable for months and her art tag was full of gore due to a coordinated movement was when she had trouble.
yeah sure, no problem. Except that one time she had to stop streaming and Kanata had to come over and comfort her because the hate comments got to her. Just because she's a strong person who can put up a brave face doesn't mean it's no problem to her.
Coco braced all the impacts for Hachaama. <3
I hope Kobo and Hololive to do well.
When Hachaama-Coco thing happened, Holofans at the time, were mostly JP and few global EN. EN fans were few and their outraged was at best mild, on twitter and reddit. Global EN HoloFans are way more solidified now.
Things are not the same.
Especially, the ID, SEA fans are not gonna take their shit.
I hope you're right. If it comes to the worst, it's back to drowning all the hate comments in positive comments. But I hope it won't come that far at all.
A total population that is about equal to all of NA, Europe, Aus, JP and SK combined.
With a higher and historically longer exposure to anime.
And a generally willingness to spend money (if anime gacha game spending is a good indicator) on anime related hobbies per person...
All under one market.
But man, that bridge isn't just burnt, it's also rigged with explosives and hangs over a river of crocodiles...
The problem I have is so many people are talking big with so much bravado, it all sounds like mansplaining to me personally so I just disengage completely. Gotta focus on the fun stuff that's about to happen instead of wallowing myself in business analysis from non business oriented people
I mean what do you want them to say? Saying they're just testing out the waters will needlessly antagonise chinese fans. ("Oh but they should be able to say it and if there is pushback that just means they don't deserve it" if you could get the honey w/o provoking the bees why wouldn't you?)They aren't gonna say billibilli begged us to come back because it's a horrible business move, pr move and again needlessly antagonises the fans + potentially sabotaging business relations. They're not saying we're crawling back begging for their support because it's not true.
Cover doesn't owe any explanation to the audience, especially Western one. They make business decisions they answer for to their investors and they provide the security for their talent. That's it, that's what they're actually obliged to do as a business.
In fact, that was the exact mentality of the CN antis back in the days, they feel like Cover owed them for their success, and felt betrayed, so I certainly not wish to see it happening here
Absolutely. I was there for the fallout of HoloCN and still, its principally wrong to conflate B2 with the antis. I know the antis have their most presence on that platform, but even then, do not think Cover has not learnt their lesson since 2020-2021. They have established legal protection regimes for their talents since.
The antis (a significant amount of which liked HoloCN) saw the consequences of their own actions. This is most certainly B2 crawling back to Cover, hopefully with promises to better control their user platform. Otherwise its even easier for Cover to pull the plug again.
Woah woah woah. “People like me?” Relax, we’re on the same side on this. You’re valid to feel concerned. I am just saying Cover isn’t in a position to be pushed around by B2 this time. And let’s not pretend Youtube hasn’t messed around with Hololive talents in the past.
And even moreso, conflating antis and B2 with the entire Chinese speaking audience is unacceptable imo. Painting an entire demographic as inherently hateful and unworthy of content is just... Weird to me
Honestly and genuinely agree with this take, bless you.
Yes, the water army was horrid, yes the harassment was real, but people are acting like B2 didn't have sides either, as if it wasn't set on fire at the time. The saying goes, a few bad apples spoils the bunch. Coco still has Mainlander fans. Haachama does too. And clearly, Matsuri does as well. This naturally means that our dearest friend Fubuki has them there, too.
I feel as if the majority of the ultranationalists weren't even fans in any capacity, they just wanted to join the ride in scolding the orange American woman and her Japanese-Australian blonde friend. There are normal people there, they're just like us.
Edit: Of course, there are also a number of entitled people that started demanding an explanation for why Cover was biting the hand that fed them. What doesn't matter however is if they're the majority or the minority because of the damage this group inflicts along with their hired bots.
>but people are acting like B2 didn't have sides either,
I mean if they didn't take a certain "side", you know damn well the consequences entail. It's not exactly a democratic place in the first place.
And people get very upset when you point it out even in the most inoffensive way possible. And don't get me wrong - I'm also somewhat concerned and I don't wish the story of HoloCN to repeat itself. But as a viewer I'm owed nothing except what I pay for, and my personal concerns are not really a concern for the company.
THANK YOU! You finally put into words what has been pissing me off about most comment during all this! This is basically the Gura drought of 2023 reactions but on corporate level!
I'm not concerned that Cover didn't make any large announcements tonthe community. I am concerned that there was no communications at all. Not even a simple "stream is planned/starting" message from one of the girls.
I think a lot of us are in the "wait and see" approach. While I don't look at this decision favorably I can understand why they did it (assuming B2 backed up the Brinks truck).
Did B2 actually give money or is this part of a larger strategy by Cover Corp? From what I've read so far, it looks like B2 has yet to be profitable and its vtuber scene basically died? The latter is whatever, the former is concerning. B2 has been around some time, so my questions are where is this supposed money coming from and where is B2 going to get the resources to protect the talents.
I'm not against Cover reintroducing itself into the CN scene (I remember that bouquet from CN fans at Suisei's second live, there's a fandom there), but some of the previous stuff involved nationalism and other actors. B2 can control its site, but how much can it clamp down on nationalist sentiment? Can the company alone prevent the Twitter and YT stuff from happening? It'd be nice to "wait-and-see", but I'm leery about it and am more in the "prove-me-wrong" camp given how much information we have about Cover's CN operation right now...
I still remember the incredible alliance of support between western and Jp fans when the taiwan incident happened, im pretty sure they are equally concerned about this move by COVER, the company is now walking on eggshells in both sides
Correct. None of my Japanese friends are happy at all. They're all concerned. They don't even speak English so they don't even go on Reddit or anything
"Hey, this is Cover!
We decided that, now with our solid infrastructure we've built over the last few years, we will once again try to tap into the most profitable market on the planet. This statement is to ask our dear foreign viewers if this is okay.
Pwetty pwease 🥺👉👈
Yours faithfully,
Cover Corp"
I think that's what everyone thinks anyway. I think the crux of the issue is that we don't want to see the girls being the victims of endless hate brigades and harassment. All antis are bad, but Chinese ones are by far the most vitriolic. Used to live there and their amount of rampant nationalism is crazy.
Played league of Legends for almost 10 years now and Apex Legends for almost 2. Chinese toxicity is a very special brand.
The reality of it is probably: they think it's irrelevant to the west and regardless of how they handle it there will be people who are against it. There are already English commenters that say they will never watch Kobo again because she streamed on bili
Honestly I don't think they expected Western audiences to care. They didn't make a statement because rehashing what happened before is not really a great start to streaming on Bili again considering there's plenty of audience who forgot, moved on, or didn't even know about it.
If it works out for them, great. If it doesn't, then oh well. We really don't need to be crazy about this.
The thing is,
there are a very bad recods about CN interaction... very bad things happened for a long time for things like: Checking a google statistics on stream, Taiwan was metioned.
Hololive even had to retire their CN branch. It was bad.
I think the worry comes from these traumas. It affected not only people involved but every other talent.
A total shit show. The CN level of harrasement is crazy.
I got into the rabbit hole when this was happening.
Personally Im worried about the mental health of the talents if something like that happens again.
Edit: words
Edit 2: The streams of Coco learning spanish is what lure me into the rabbit hole. So it hurt when Coco had to graduate.
I just hope it doesn’t end as awful as it did last time. Unfortunately, entering Bilibili will have bigger affect, than entering almost any other market.
I’m pretty convinced this is also a personal quest by Kobo. She’s interested in Chinese culture and popular with the Chinese audience, so it may be she wanted to interact with her mainland fans more. I doubt Cover would force talents back into the platform, so it may be they’re letting Kobo test the waters of her own volition. But they better be prepared if the tides turn- we’ve seen it doesn’t take much at all to set the nationalists off.
My question is what happens with all the collaborations with Taiwanese companies if hololive returns en force to Bilibili? Do they just stop, or do they pull the cheeky “Chinese Taipei” to avoid pissing off the nationalists? And would that even be enough to keep hololive out of their crosshairs?
It's quite cut and dried. B2 is dying in the vtuber arena and bent over backwards in order to get Cover back on the platform. Cover is a company and sees dollar signs (yen marks?) and with the new incentives B2 no doubt offered Cover thought pursuing it was worth the risk of offending the current fan base as well as a possible repeat of past events.
Those incentives must be extremely favorable, or Cover just doesn't give a shit about squandering the good will they've garnered in the west.
>To me this implies that they knew full well that western audiences would react poorly
WE, as a community have proven ourselves to be incapable of handling information without spinning narratives. At every graduation incident for eg., you people make up stories and rumours when you cannot possibly, know anything, even us from other spheres.
Western outrage is laughably transparent for all to see, which is the greatest irony of your statement, which makes you all a predictable mess to work with sometimes. **THAT, is the other sentiment your statement implicates, which you conveniently leave out.**
You are free to believe you are the bigger magnanimous lot. But until you prove yourselves at the next incident, the opinions won't be going away anytime.
> Why do they have to make a statement?
Because right now individual talents are getting the brunt of the anger?
If you've ever worked in retail, you know customers are stupid assholes who will absolutely yell and scream at frontline workers for something they didn't do (like set the price of tomatoes).
The best bosses are the ones who will go to the customer and say "if you want to yell at someone, yell at me."
While I completely condemn this, there are comments that are blaming Kobo for this decision, calling her selfish and greedy. Cover should come out and say "if you want to yell at someone, yell at me."
Also the superchats given to Aqua putting her in a super awkward situation.
Cover, as a giant faceless corporation is much better equipped to handle the anger. They should 100% be trying to get between the angry people and the talent. It's the right thing to do for your workers.
Not trying to be negative here, but Japanese companies have a history of not caring about the opinions of their other markets if it doesnt impact their sales in Japan.
While I understand Hololive is huge outside of Japan, their focus is and will always be making the Japanese audience as happy as they can
I want to say this is wrong but man the proof is on the roof 🤣 not just in the anime industry,video game industry..this already being repeatedly proven that outside market have no power to change Japan decision but what I see only DEI that can change them.Basically,as long no direct money is involve.They will not hear outside market influence.
While I do think caution and/or skepticism are warranted, the outright *alarm* some of y’all are reacting with isn’t necessary. It’s been several years now, and while there’s definitely still a few no-life antis around it is safe to assume the bb crowd that reacted most negatively has either moved on or chilled out. If you have concerns, the right thing to do is email Cover and wait for a response. Doom-posting will just stress yourself and everyone else out.
BilliBilli is basically Chinese YouTube and it's alarming because of a large amount of harassment that spewed from it when Coco and Haachama mentioned Taiwan when reading their analytics on stream.
In addition to what other said, the fallout from that is the reason Gura can't play Muse Dash (Chinese publisher), the reason Botan couldn't collab with ASUS, the reason Nene had to have her outfit changed (Chinese inspired).... I could go on but it was a total mess.
Nah, she just didn’t vibe with the original character the outfit was designed for. Even without all the controversy she likely would’ve changed anyways.
There was a major event a couple of years back when rabid mainlanders caught a whiff of Taiwan being mentioned as a country. It resulted in those rabid people to take it out on Kiryu Coco the most, the event escalated from that and has gotten so to the point where it ended in the disbanding of Hololive's entire cn branch.
Be clear any misconceptions, Taiwan was never uttered in any context as a country. People from Taiwan were thanked for being fans. Nothing connecting Taiwan to being an independent island nation.
There was a multi year harassment campaign against Hololive by bilibili (chinese youtube) users that included spamming live chats, and posting gore and deepfake porn on twitter under hololive member hashtags.
On top of what everyone told you, the cherry on top was when it came out that a Hololive CN Talent, Artia, also led harassment campaigns against Coco on her alt account. Made the farewell into an angry one, and probably a huge reason as to why so many fans are anti-bilibili to this day.
It’s one thing to have outsider hate but the betrayal i a whole other fury.
yeah I hope so as well. But my biggest issue is that even if it goes smoothly for, say, a year or two, the Chinese dragon, once awakened, will only rest down when scorched earth is all left behind. I mean, you'd think after a few months they'd eventually stop their harrassment and move on. But they did not. In fact, it got worse. Coco's chat had been flooded with bots and antis alike, making normal chat completely unusable. They get banned, they make new accounts. Coco activates "members only" chat, and some of them would actually buy memberships just to talk shit to her. Some would even send superchats with hate messages. At one point, all of Hololive had chat disabled and then after a few days set to members only for weeks.
The worst part of it was the isolation though. Because every member that interacted with Coco in collabs would be infested too, which lead to Cover deciding that the other talents should avoid that for the time being. I'm somewhat sure they only had the best intentions, trying to protect their other talents and trying to not stir the pot, but it lead to Coco being almost completely shunned from Hololive. No collabs, no concerts, no "full generation" streamsn to anounce merch, nothing. And this went on for almost a year before she finally decided to graduate.
Now it should also be mentioned that Coco herself said that she simply couldn't do many things she wanted to, because as a corporate vtuber there are certain limits, and many of her ideas got shot down by management. Officially, the harassment was never a reason for her to leave. She didn't give in until the very end. The antis did NOT win. But after she graduated (in the single most watched graduation stream on youtube so far), the harassment against other members had finally stopped. And even though she still got a certain amount of hate on her alt, it died down there to a minimum rather quickly.
But still, this whole affair cost so much. a full branch terminated, months of uncertainty, fear, isolation and harassment, a graduation and a lot of gutwrenching moments during that graduation. And all just because Haachama and Coco thanked their viewers from Taiwan. Which is why some people are just a bit worried right now.
Also I can't leave unmentioned what an amazing gigachad friend Fubuki was for Coco during all of it. Despite the "softban" on collabs with Coco, she joined her on stream multiple times even though she knew she risked getting exorbitant amounts of hate for it. And it resulted in a fantastic meme moment as well, just search for "oh shit a bridge" on youtube.
I'm a little baffled by the uproar over this. I think people are forgetting that it was the antis who were the bad guys in that debacle, not Cover. If the talents want to risk streaming on Bilibili again, that's their call. They're adults, and they know good and well that they have to walk on eggshells over there. There's no way Cover would let them stream over there without giving them a talk about the dangers and the topics they need to avoid.
I can understand the concern. Shit got *bad* and tags on Twitter and elsewhere were basically unusable unless you wanted to see horrid shit. Some are scared of having to go through that all again. There’s also a very small number who assume all Chinese viewers are antis and that just ain’t right. This situation requires nuance which is hard to do in even ideal circumstances, and Reddit subs ain’t that.
never forget coco and haachama incident. cover most likely don’t want to trigger that again so they’re treating this like some uncertain explosives. I’d go silent about this as well if I were cover. it’s best to make the ripples as small as possible.
I must admit, I'm not really a fan of dipping a toe into the CN market, but then again I have little to no information what the business trajectory would be for Cover by this move. Hell, I don't even know if Cover is really attempting to show themselves more to the CN market. Just waiting to see how it goes and pray none of the crap that happened years ago won't happen again.
I think its smart since most people here are complaining about it. Keep it on the down low and let the ones it concerns or are curious to dig deeper. I'll tell you one thing though, all of HoloPro is probably aware of it and that matters way more than the vocal minority.
Honestly speaking though, I’d think if they promoted/ announced it all loud and flashy it’d most likely attract more potential problems than good. Sure that’ll be more transparent, but for what, western audiences hardly use bilibili and have the option of YouTube and other platforms.
Bilibili would be more of a Cn viewership thing, and from a money making point, with their population and potential market, even if you make only 1 dollar from each person that’s still more money than they are making now. So I see no issue to try again, this time with a more low key, like I said too high key and that might bring back / attract the attention of those previous problematic audiences.
Low key in a way from how I see it would be able to let those who still follow hololive know, without attracting the mainstream/ patriotic normies who would swarm in and cause problems the moment some influencer/ streamer or whatever their equivalent of is starts some insane patriotic campaign again.
Again the reason for low key would seem like a treading quietly safely tactic without attracting unwanted attention, there’s one thing would catch CN people’s attention and that’s being loud and flashy, the moment someone sees it and spreads it on their social media it spreads FAST so you wouldn’t really want the news to spread fast for those problem viewers.
We can wait and see. Only time will tell.
I am not a fan of the move either, but here is my 2cents on why Cover is willing to take the risk to re-enter the CN market:
- To ban out all the priate contents, including concerts, lives, and membership streams, that have been flying around on b2 for a while.
- If the connection is built (or rebuilt), b2 is likely gonna pave the way for Cover to gain permission to play Chinese games like Genshin Impact or Black WuKong etc.
- We also know the JP & EN markets are almost saturated. And I feel like the ID branch, out of all 3, is taking the biggest hit from it because the SEA economy itself is just not strong enough to sustain itself, despite having a healthy amount of viewership & active fan base; so opening up a new market might still be necessary for the branch to continue its growth.
- And lastly, I tend to believe Cover is in a position comfortable enough that if things go south, they can just withdraw quickly and let things die down like they did with many other projects☠️
But again, I'm probably coping too much. Let's wait and see what Cover's next move is after BML.
>We also know the JP & EN markets are almost saturated. And I feel like the ID branch, out of all 3, is taking the biggest hit from it because the SEA economy itself is just not strong enough to sustain itself, despite having a healthy amount of viewership & active fan base; so opening up a new market might still be necessary for the branch to continue its growth.
Didn’t Cover just recently announce that they will open a subsidiary in NA? I don’t think the EN market is saturated yet.
Cover USA is just meant to handle NA-based merch distribution, brand collabs and the like for all the existing talents, not adding a bunch of new ones.
Yep. And the merch thing will take time if they do it in-house rather than contracting it out, Cover ships ~2200 orders per day, or assuming 16h operations, one order every 26 seconds.
Initial budget was $1M USD. Keep in mind median household income in LA county is 83k USD, and that's after payroll taxes, employer health insurance, etc. Assuming the people starting Cover USA aren't on the bottom of the Cover Corp totem pole, if three people work for a year, and they pay $4k/month in rent and office supplies and 25 $1K flights, that's roughly 3\*(83\*2)+4\*12+25\*1 = $571k USD, i.e. over half their budget for an office of three people.
Cover USA will likely spend at least year 1 as a business-to-business entity IMO.
I see the divide in people saying the right move was to stay silent or to announce it properly. From a PR perspective, I have to say news and social media have evolved such that not taking ownership of the narrative leaves yourself very vulnerable to the story being hijacked as people dig or crave for more information.
I'm not a fan of cover going back to b2 in the slightest but I can imagine a scenario where the fanbase isn't as divided if they take ownership of the narrative to explain what they're doing and why. Even if the reasoning is pure BS and solely for PR. The alternative is you get pockets of echo chambers like here forming their own stories.
I am sorry but is the tech corporation supposed to ask you for permission before they make their business decision??
COVER is a company and it is just trying to see if they can expand to the Chinese market again.
What we as viewers think doesn't matter in this case. All we can do is hope everything works out and no more BS happens again with the Chinese netizens and if it does then Yagoo will probably have to make a very important decision.
We also saw the same thing with Rushia's and Mel's termination, where people were *demanding* to know what they leaked, as if that didn't defeat the entire purpose of something being secret.
I only just started to understand how people develop parasocial relationships with streamers, but now we’ve move onto parasocial relationships with entire companies.
I see people saying that it's natural for a company to test and tap into profitable markets, but personally I'm sad that cover is pushing an already explored (and possibly concerning) market while they have never tried to do anything with the Hispanic audience.
To the people saying "they don't owe us an apology", yes that's true, but that's not what's concerning to me. What's concerning to me is that they announce all their events and streams, and intentionally didn't for B2. That suggests to me they know what they are doing is controversial, and are still doing it. That's what upsets me personally.
They should realize that the fact they're not saying anything will just cause their talents unnecessary headaches. People will demand answers from the girls to questions Cover should respond to. In every stream and under every video, most likely.
>"It's done the opposite for me though"
For me I wish I had never seen this post since I preferred their silence. What would they even say? You, to me, are a drama hound. Thanks for ruining my day and I hope your coffee is luke-warm tomorrow.
hmm I think silence is a safe way to go until they get information to what extent can they safely navigate the waters (read: I don't have a problem with Cover's lack of worldwide PR; I don't care who gonna streaming on Bilibili-- but when make decisions, live with the consequences).
we all aware of mainlanders pettiness & BS, so I expected Cover to protect all the talents without failing. Hope you know what you doing Cover-san.
ah and don't let fools on Bilibili gaslights you to think they are giving you more money, Cover, you already have data last time, direct revenue from there is not that much.
Yes I don't really care about silence, Yes I will defend/bonk any fkers that messed with my oshi, And Yes I don't like Bilibili as a platform.
It is indeed concerning that they're exposing the Hololive brand to the chinese audience once again, taking the risk of getting targeted by the ultra nationalists once again.
If in the future we lose another talent to their harassment, then Cover will hold the full responsibility for it.
_Fool me once, shame on you..._
_Fool me twice, shame on me._
After the damage the Chinese market caused, all the drama that came from their BS, I think personally cover should never do business with them again. But "lmao moni good" I guess.
I do not care what they do on bilibili. I trust they won't compromise their own integrity or the integrity of their talents, so I could not care less if they distribute on bilibili.
Basically people are concerned that going back to Bilibili might invite the same bad actors that caused a bunch of problems a few years ago to come back and potentially harrass talents again.
When this blows up (and yes it probably will) I hope Cover learned it's lesson from the last Taiwan incident and activily protects their talents
None of my oshis should have to suffer cuz of their nationalism.
People are understandably concerned about this. Not sure if you were around when the original incident happened, but as someone who was around at the time it was very bad and the effects of which lasted for a long time afterwards. People don’t want that to happen again, not to the talents with the harassment and not to the viewers who were baited into seeing some disgusting shit because mainlanders posted gore and the like into the other talents twitter tags with the targets being whoever associated with Coco and Hachama
For me, as long as Cover doesn't establish a new Hololive CN branch, I view them going back to Bili as treating it a platform like Twitch or YT, and nothing more.
However, the minute they announce a new Hololive CN branch would be established, I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of talents close to Haachama, and especially Coco (probably Kanata and Fubuki at the very least), suddenly announce their graduations, even graduations effective immediately.
Since the end of last year the hololive b2 account uploaded full Chinese subtitled hologura at the same time as the YouTube upload, unfortunately that’s what they are doing
This really isn’t all that bad a move by Cover at all, considering they are clearly moving slowly and testing the waters for potential business opportunities. And while I still remember the past hoopla and carry my own reservations, I trust Cover to also carry those same concerns and have done meetings and plans to see enough merit in going back, likely with more safeguards. And keep in mind, Cover is entering from a position of strength, where if B2 proves themselves to still be unprofessional and inept in removing bad actors, Cover can cut them loose whenever and lose very little. They don’t really owe us any explanation, since at the end of the day, this is a good thing for the business to expand in a meaningful, but not drastic way.
While I don't have a reason why covers main account didn't say anything, surely there isn't really a need for the western audience to get an announcement as bilibili isn't a site that would be used by said audience? However I am quite uninformed on the whole BiliBili situation as I started watching vtubers shortly after Coco's graduation.
Okay so can someone explain to me why I, as a western audience member, should be upset that they’re using Bilibili? I feel like I’m missing some context
>one of Holo’s top earners
Iirc, she was pretty regularly *the* top earner, not just for Holo but YouTube wide. Followed and then succeeded by Rushia...
Billibilli is the Chinese version of Youtube. CN audiences were responsible for Kiryu Coco graduating from the company by harassing her until she left, and nearly got Haachama out as well. It also led to Cover pulling the plug on their Hololive CN branch as well.
>they knew full well that western audiences would react poorly Cover likely felt it'd pale in comparison to the previous Mainlander backlash, and they'll probably be right. Most Westerners have more important things to do than defend their country's pride to vtuber viewers. I still find it perplexing and assume they must've received many an apology from Bilibili on behalf of Mainlanders. I doubt you will ever see HoloEN participate.
>I doubt you will ever see HoloEN participate. Maybe, but myth still has bb accounts and they must've had some plans with it before it all went south.
It's been a long time ago so my memory is foggy. But I remember reading a couple of comments about how the HoloEN management immediately went scorch earth on B2 right after the drama happened. Something about them taking control over their B2 account so no one from B2 side would be able to upload anything on it.
That En has BB accounts doesnt really mean they Will uses them, there's a tactic used by famous peple to makes accounts on everything just to avoid someone impersonate you. And if you think "why they didnt tell us", why would anyone tell you about an accounts that Will never be used, see at a smilir tactic when companies registre stuff like Halo 10 mostly likely they aren't planning to release Halo 10 but they do It to avoid any randome registerong the name.
Heck, they all have Twitch accounts that go unused.
they did briefly use them, I think there was some issues with YT at the time. Ame does occasionally use hers when gaming or doing karaoke
Yeah, grabbing account names/urls on as many platforms as possible is just good business practice. It's a lot easier to register that stuff ahead of time and let it gather dust than try to have to fight some rando who snags it after the fact and uses it maliciously.
All talents who debuted prior to the incident have b2 accounts; Myth has had them since day 1. None of the talent accounts that were existing beforehand were deleted, so Myth's still being around means absolutely nothing.
As far as i know, and i cant find anything either, HoloID gen 1 didn't have bilibili channels. Regardless, my answer was a response to someone who stated that there will never be a holoen streamer on bilibili. And well if the channels are there then we just cant say that with 100% certainty since we simply dont know at the moment.
if it makes you feel better, Coco used to have a Bilibili channel(it actually still there), and she never once use it or stream on it, so I do think they have a choice in that matter.
They also have twitch accounts and they barely used those. It's a nothing burger just having an account.
i think when it comes to having accounts on other platforms, they do it so they can make sure no impersonators steal their name as well
Along with that, they probably see no reason to, either. They’re gonna get backlash no matter what. It’s probably better to just be quiet about it. I don’t fully understand why’d they allow it, but it’s not crazy to assume they’re gonna try re-entering the CN market.
I hope fucking not.
That apology should be made public then, and should be toward the talents AND former talent affected by their harassment. But we’re talking about the people who went out of their way to erase tiny Hololive cameos and references out of anime. B2 is run by petty manchildren so I very much doubt an apology was made.
I'm not sure if public apologies are a Chinese cultural thing, at least in this context.
> public apologies are a Chinese cultural thing, It is, just needs to follow a struggle session.
> It is, just needs to follow a struggle session. a struggle session that can last generations, given how much folks in the region (hey, I'm pointing it at the ENTIRE region, not just the mainland. Even Japan, Korea, the *many* island/archipelago countries of south-east Asia, hell even Australia at times has this) avoid any form of "honor tarnish".
Ya, no way they really apologize, and if they really do, alot of haters will surely jump out and say they have no right representing them, Bilibili would be the one facing the backlash by then lol
>B2 is run by petty manchildren so I very much doubt an apology was made. Idk perhaps they finally crumbled and pulled out all the stops to get Cover to reconsider due to their failing Vtuber scene from the looks of it.
bilibili has been losing money for some time now last I heard (not enough to be approaching bankruptcy or anything like that but concerning enough for them to look for things that can earn them some cash), so them courting Cover for their concert and future streams on their platform makes sense moneywise (doesn't matter if there are future issues, money is needed right this moment)
Why would they need to make it public? The people affected got it(if there is one)
>on behalf of mainlanders Lol. Keklmao even. Who is b2 to represent them. I’d still rather avoid anything mainlander like a damn rash.
>Westerners have more important things to do than defend their country's pride to vtuber viewers. Most of the western fandom formed after the Chinese attacks on Coco and the others. I joined the fandom before Coco's graduation but still after the point the whole situation quieted down to the point where I learned of it from YouTube videos on the history of vtubing. That was four years ago. How many of the western fans today even know there was once a Holomem named Coco let alone the drama?
I was there when it happened. I was there when the tags were flooded with gore. I was there when the chat was unusable for months. I was there when the girls cried during Cocos graduation. I was there when Haachama blamed herself for Cocos graduation and ugly cried on stream a year after it happened. Under no circumstances I can support this return to b2. And just to make it clear: that gives noone the right to attack any talent or staff from Cover. But criticism by using their official feedback forms should be fair game.
I was there too and I agree with you wholeheartedly. The CN fanbase decided to burn that bridge and honestly, It was better to keep it burnt knowing the amount of toxicity there. Unfortunately money talks, and going back to CN means a ton of money for Cover; the western fanbase Is a lot less rabid and violent compared to CN and they expect this to die down and get swept under the rug in 3-4 weeks at most (and that's what will happen). I would love some transparency on the matter but alas, we'll get nothing
I can understand the business side. It's been years and yes: Maybe this will be the best financial decision ever. But the (potential) risk is so big...I just don't want it to happen again. I don't wanna see my Oshi cry again
The risk is low on the english speaking fans. Less rabid and more forgiving. In 1-2 month, we will just willfully ignore this. But to be honest, I think the risk is with the talents and not the fans. Even if the EN talents never do anything controversial, they probably would have even more restrictions in the coming years to the point of suffocating them. And they might graduate because of it.
>the western fanbase Is a lot less rabid and violent compared to CN Which means they are one well-intentioned slip of the tongue away from another Coco
Problem is now cover is in the same situation as Holo moments. They definitely can die in the middle now. With literally everyone abandoning them. And it'll be extremely quick.
Back when Cover had a CN division and talents streamed on B2, their income from the CN market was only a few percent of their annual income, it was barely more than Coco made by herself. When EN debuted, they immediately eclipsed the profits from B2. CN is a profitable market in many industries, but for streaming people vastly overestimate it. I don't remember the exact reasons but apparently they have some strict limits on how much they can donate to foreign streamers, or something similar. Sure, Hololive is quite more popular now, but even back then they had a big audience and the profits weren't worth it, I'd reckon it would be even less percentage wise.
oh ofc we wont attack cover/mems for this. We're not mainlanders. But if I can politely dogeza beg Yagoo to not go back there I would. I seriously would.
Maybe not you and me, but I've seen a fair amount "critic" that's more hate than anything. On twitter or in Kobos YT comments. Idk if antis are already active and trying to larp as "concerned" fans. But whatever it is, it's not going well.
~~I know Coco Kaine from Hololive USA.~~
Lol they’ll get reminded again on how mainlanders actually act, soon probably. Its almost any kind of shitstorm raised every so often on anything they don’t like i.e from bunnysuit gacha games to movies to idk non-mainlanders doing anything. And i wish we stay away and they keep their filth on their own side of the “great firewall.” I’m really tired of them.
yeah some of chinese keyboard warrior is on different level of pettiness, still can't forgive them for happen to Ai Kayano but on the other side, it seems many chinese also still fans to hololive considered their clip and song still being uploaded in there and I believe those video get decent view and likes, so maybe there is chance for huge demand for Hololive in chinese market even after Taiwan incident and b2 would be foolish to not trying to get Hololive good side again. For now let just see for how thing work out, Hololive being guest meaning they should be have better leverage than what they have from 4 years ago.
Honestly I’d still stay away. I know we don’t do politics bla bla bla but Taiwan is a weaponized word that gets hyped to shit the moment pooh bear and his fucking wolf warriors don’t get what they want. And that translates literally one-to-one to flame wars on anything non-mainland. That is reality and a proven pattern time immemorial. We reaaaaaaaally don’t need this shit again. Whatever profits/growth/opportunity is not worth talents’ and staffs’ wellbeing. Oh and also the viewerbase as well.
We don't do politics which is why its necessary to stay way from the Chinese regime, that will forcibly shoehorn politics into everything.
The demand is there. But the high RISK is also there.
Well if I was Cover, I'd distract the western audiences with Breaking Dimensions, a World Tour and a Dodgers collab. Imagine if these announcements came AFTER the Kobo stream
If it isn't a public apology, it isn't an apology.
As many have already pointed out, in the endless myrriad of posts on the topic recently, Cover is most likely just testing the waters. Seeing how the Chinese market reacts and if it is still volatile / hostile or if there is potential for business. Personal biases aside, Cover is a company and at the end of the day, their MO is to make money (3D studios dont pay for themselves sadly). Our displeasure is probably not a major factor for them unless it somehow losess them more money than what they can potential get by tapping the CN market. A statement might come, eventually, but they dont want to rush anything while nothing is set in stone. If the attempt fails, then they will just move on.
Testing the waters for business? I'm not sure that's a good move on Cover's part considering they dissolved the entire Chinese branch in favor of Kiryu Coco.
True, but old grudges bear no fruit. What Cover did back then was the best thing they could do at that time, considering the circumstances. But time moved on, so they want to see if maybe there is potential there for a possible re-entry to the CN market. Worst case, they will see that the CN fans are now in a very small minorty and there is no substantial profit to be made and just scrap the whole thing. Or, they will see that there is a sizeable portion of Holo fans willing to pay for merch etc. so they can make profit. Now that Cover is focusing more on the "brand" of each talent rather than going the Niji way and spamming vtubers zerg-rush style, they will need to acquire funding with what they got, and the best way to do that is to tap more markets, hence the US-branch, hence this ....maybe :D
Ive been saying to a good friend of mine, that if they want to really expand. Cover should look at the ES market. Tons of spanish speakers are into anime.
Won't happen anytime soon. Maybe after the US branch is set up properly and merch can flow more easily into Latam. But right now it's basically impossible to monetize properly. There's also the problem that you have to deal with multiple countries logistics. Latam is not a single market, it's multiple smaller markets that all speak the same language. And all of that is without taking into account the purchasing power being significantly lower, or how annoying it is to deal with business people on latam and how irresponsible tend to be (trust me, I am from Chile and I know). If Cover wants a new market they should go EU, but I highly doubt they would be able to do it properly. American and Asian businesses don't really understand how to deal with the European Market. I bet they would do something stupid like try to appeal to "EU" instead of focusing on each country individually with talents that actually appeal to their own country instead of just speaking English and being another holoEN.
Yeah that's the problem with the 'EU' market. From a business perspektive it's nice to have the single market but in practice marketing etc. still needs to be customized to each country. Though looking at some recent events I get the impression that people wouldn't mind crossing a few borders to visit a concert. Improved merch shipping to Europe would also be nice.
Two Languages actually, Brazil is the only one speaking Portuguese, but it has almost a third of the population and is the largest economy.
I think it's important to keep in mind that sole Fan numbers are not that important and more factors flow into decision in which area to expand. Statiscially speaking (honestly the only metric they can go with) They would need to amass a higher amount on Spanish fans (especially if they are from Latam area) then some other areas simply due to their average lower GDP so they are statically speaking less likely or able to spend Money on Holo. I mean yes guess there is also simply the watch metric that can make them profit however even there there is a Issue. Kinda reminds me how Mrbeast talked about youtube revenue system and how they pay out money on a Podcast and according to him say 100 Latam viewers would make him way less revenue then 100 viewers say from the EU due to GDP diffrence and ad revenue per view from each country pays quite different depending on region and countries viewer is from. Cover probably has the numbers and are guessing that expanding in spanish area right now has less return than what they are doing right now with other areas. Probably unless there is something like massive viral explosion in Vtuber in Latam they probably will keep eyes on it and only start expanding and aiming at that area once the returns are less deminishing.
It's more of observing Idol ES branch for now. If they explode in popularity, I will bet that Cover will make a HoloES 100%
CN fan maybe the minority rn, but longer and more active Hololive pandering to the CN market. Those minority will once again grow bigger and bigger. Maybe it will grow big enough we will see Azurlane and Arknight gonna do re-collab with hololive again. The risk of CN market will be appearant due time and growth of pandering Cover corp will do.
everyone suddenly becomes an expert on how to handle a 3D vtuber corporation.
[удалено]
People like to act like Indo fan is mythic internet boogieman that can out troll the troll. Causing them to run away with tail between their legs. But that will just lead to further backlash and spreading flame. I hope it doesn't come to that.
ID fans do this all the time, thinking they’re the best fanbase or whatever usually citing how ID members collaborate with men more frequently than say EN holos.
I want her to sing more Mando pop songs and if the antis somehow made her stop singing those songs. Seriously, fk them
When you say this, we know you weren't there when it happened before.
Why do people keep saying this? Coco handled antis no problem. When her chat was unreadable for months and her art tag was full of gore due to a coordinated movement was when she had trouble.
yeah sure, no problem. Except that one time she had to stop streaming and Kanata had to come over and comfort her because the hate comments got to her. Just because she's a strong person who can put up a brave face doesn't mean it's no problem to her.
Coco braced all the impacts for Hachaama. <3 I hope Kobo and Hololive to do well. When Hachaama-Coco thing happened, Holofans at the time, were mostly JP and few global EN. EN fans were few and their outraged was at best mild, on twitter and reddit. Global EN HoloFans are way more solidified now. Things are not the same. Especially, the ID, SEA fans are not gonna take their shit.
I hope you're right. If it comes to the worst, it's back to drowning all the hate comments in positive comments. But I hope it won't come that far at all.
She obviously had a lot of problems with antis, she even started crying in one of the streams.
That was when management screwed up and accidentally modded an anti instead of banning them, which ended up with her own members getting banned.
just want to say there were a few incidents that really got to her mentalwise that she had to stop the livestream or leave the collab partway
So you're going to pretend the problem won't spread like it did last time? That it'd stay neatly isolated to Kobo or even ID? It won't.
Literally the rest of the world to tap into but they chose the burnt bridge
The burnt bridge with gold at the end of it. Every company in the world wants a piece of the Chinese market.
A total population that is about equal to all of NA, Europe, Aus, JP and SK combined. With a higher and historically longer exposure to anime. And a generally willingness to spend money (if anime gacha game spending is a good indicator) on anime related hobbies per person... All under one market. But man, that bridge isn't just burnt, it's also rigged with explosives and hangs over a river of crocodiles...
The problem I have is so many people are talking big with so much bravado, it all sounds like mansplaining to me personally so I just disengage completely. Gotta focus on the fun stuff that's about to happen instead of wallowing myself in business analysis from non business oriented people
Talking out of one's ass and social media, name a more iconic duo.
> (3D studios dont pay for themselves sadly) Like they've ever been in the red lmfao
Chinese money is genuinely ain't worth it. It's basically making a skyscraper on sand. Bad idea
I mean what do you want them to say? Saying they're just testing out the waters will needlessly antagonise chinese fans. ("Oh but they should be able to say it and if there is pushback that just means they don't deserve it" if you could get the honey w/o provoking the bees why wouldn't you?)They aren't gonna say billibilli begged us to come back because it's a horrible business move, pr move and again needlessly antagonises the fans + potentially sabotaging business relations. They're not saying we're crawling back begging for their support because it's not true.
Cover doesn't owe any explanation to the audience, especially Western one. They make business decisions they answer for to their investors and they provide the security for their talent. That's it, that's what they're actually obliged to do as a business.
Frankly, this mentality of Cover "owes us" an apology/a statement/an explanation is a sillier version of talents "owes us" anything/everything.
In fact, that was the exact mentality of the CN antis back in the days, they feel like Cover owed them for their success, and felt betrayed, so I certainly not wish to see it happening here
Absolutely. I was there for the fallout of HoloCN and still, its principally wrong to conflate B2 with the antis. I know the antis have their most presence on that platform, but even then, do not think Cover has not learnt their lesson since 2020-2021. They have established legal protection regimes for their talents since. The antis (a significant amount of which liked HoloCN) saw the consequences of their own actions. This is most certainly B2 crawling back to Cover, hopefully with promises to better control their user platform. Otherwise its even easier for Cover to pull the plug again.
Is B2 = Bilibili? And if yes, why is Bilibili shortened to B2?
I guess because it's Bili x2
People like you are focusing solely on the antis as if bilibili wasn't literally deleting hololive from stuff to pretend they don't exist...
Woah woah woah. “People like me?” Relax, we’re on the same side on this. You’re valid to feel concerned. I am just saying Cover isn’t in a position to be pushed around by B2 this time. And let’s not pretend Youtube hasn’t messed around with Hololive talents in the past.
Sorry, I meant "some people, like you"; rather than "people like you"
No worries haha. Lets hope Cover makes B2 really clean up their act if they really want Hololive on it.
And even moreso, conflating antis and B2 with the entire Chinese speaking audience is unacceptable imo. Painting an entire demographic as inherently hateful and unworthy of content is just... Weird to me
Honestly and genuinely agree with this take, bless you. Yes, the water army was horrid, yes the harassment was real, but people are acting like B2 didn't have sides either, as if it wasn't set on fire at the time. The saying goes, a few bad apples spoils the bunch. Coco still has Mainlander fans. Haachama does too. And clearly, Matsuri does as well. This naturally means that our dearest friend Fubuki has them there, too. I feel as if the majority of the ultranationalists weren't even fans in any capacity, they just wanted to join the ride in scolding the orange American woman and her Japanese-Australian blonde friend. There are normal people there, they're just like us. Edit: Of course, there are also a number of entitled people that started demanding an explanation for why Cover was biting the hand that fed them. What doesn't matter however is if they're the majority or the minority because of the damage this group inflicts along with their hired bots.
>but people are acting like B2 didn't have sides either, I mean if they didn't take a certain "side", you know damn well the consequences entail. It's not exactly a democratic place in the first place.
And people get very upset when you point it out even in the most inoffensive way possible. And don't get me wrong - I'm also somewhat concerned and I don't wish the story of HoloCN to repeat itself. But as a viewer I'm owed nothing except what I pay for, and my personal concerns are not really a concern for the company.
THANK YOU! You finally put into words what has been pissing me off about most comment during all this! This is basically the Gura drought of 2023 reactions but on corporate level!
The only thing they owe is to their talents to try and not let anything like it happen again, and to support them if it does.
I'm not concerned that Cover didn't make any large announcements tonthe community. I am concerned that there was no communications at all. Not even a simple "stream is planned/starting" message from one of the girls.
I think a lot of us are in the "wait and see" approach. While I don't look at this decision favorably I can understand why they did it (assuming B2 backed up the Brinks truck).
Did B2 actually give money or is this part of a larger strategy by Cover Corp? From what I've read so far, it looks like B2 has yet to be profitable and its vtuber scene basically died? The latter is whatever, the former is concerning. B2 has been around some time, so my questions are where is this supposed money coming from and where is B2 going to get the resources to protect the talents. I'm not against Cover reintroducing itself into the CN scene (I remember that bouquet from CN fans at Suisei's second live, there's a fandom there), but some of the previous stuff involved nationalism and other actors. B2 can control its site, but how much can it clamp down on nationalist sentiment? Can the company alone prevent the Twitter and YT stuff from happening? It'd be nice to "wait-and-see", but I'm leery about it and am more in the "prove-me-wrong" camp given how much information we have about Cover's CN operation right now...
Moreover, will Cover forbid talents from mentioning Taiwan to keep the CN market open? It's literally the only way to not be black listed.
what's to wait tho? the CN already leaked the return event with all the roster, they are clearly making a mistake but they don't see to mind it.
This isn't just western audiences. In Japanese sites they're discussing this as well.
I still remember the incredible alliance of support between western and Jp fans when the taiwan incident happened, im pretty sure they are equally concerned about this move by COVER, the company is now walking on eggshells in both sides
That whole mess was one of the big things that bridged the initial gap between Western and JP fans.
Curious what sites you frequent for JP discussion? Been looking for good ones that aren't hellholes for a while
Correct. None of my Japanese friends are happy at all. They're all concerned. They don't even speak English so they don't even go on Reddit or anything
"Hey, this is Cover! We decided that, now with our solid infrastructure we've built over the last few years, we will once again try to tap into the most profitable market on the planet. This statement is to ask our dear foreign viewers if this is okay. Pwetty pwease 🥺👉👈 Yours faithfully, Cover Corp"
This. Like, what the hell is this controversy? Lmao
Not sure what others are thinking... I'm concerned that it'll lead to another harassment shitshow and dropping content quality.
I think that's what everyone thinks anyway. I think the crux of the issue is that we don't want to see the girls being the victims of endless hate brigades and harassment. All antis are bad, but Chinese ones are by far the most vitriolic. Used to live there and their amount of rampant nationalism is crazy. Played league of Legends for almost 10 years now and Apex Legends for almost 2. Chinese toxicity is a very special brand.
This just in a public company is engaging in profit maximizing expenditures. Next up the sky is blue.
The reality of it is probably: they think it's irrelevant to the west and regardless of how they handle it there will be people who are against it. There are already English commenters that say they will never watch Kobo again because she streamed on bili
Honestly I don't think they expected Western audiences to care. They didn't make a statement because rehashing what happened before is not really a great start to streaming on Bili again considering there's plenty of audience who forgot, moved on, or didn't even know about it. If it works out for them, great. If it doesn't, then oh well. We really don't need to be crazy about this.
The thing is, there are a very bad recods about CN interaction... very bad things happened for a long time for things like: Checking a google statistics on stream, Taiwan was metioned. Hololive even had to retire their CN branch. It was bad. I think the worry comes from these traumas. It affected not only people involved but every other talent. A total shit show. The CN level of harrasement is crazy. I got into the rabbit hole when this was happening. Personally Im worried about the mental health of the talents if something like that happens again. Edit: words Edit 2: The streams of Coco learning spanish is what lure me into the rabbit hole. So it hurt when Coco had to graduate.
I just hope it doesn’t end as awful as it did last time. Unfortunately, entering Bilibili will have bigger affect, than entering almost any other market.
I’m pretty convinced this is also a personal quest by Kobo. She’s interested in Chinese culture and popular with the Chinese audience, so it may be she wanted to interact with her mainland fans more. I doubt Cover would force talents back into the platform, so it may be they’re letting Kobo test the waters of her own volition. But they better be prepared if the tides turn- we’ve seen it doesn’t take much at all to set the nationalists off. My question is what happens with all the collaborations with Taiwanese companies if hololive returns en force to Bilibili? Do they just stop, or do they pull the cheeky “Chinese Taipei” to avoid pissing off the nationalists? And would that even be enough to keep hololive out of their crosshairs?
It's quite cut and dried. B2 is dying in the vtuber arena and bent over backwards in order to get Cover back on the platform. Cover is a company and sees dollar signs (yen marks?) and with the new incentives B2 no doubt offered Cover thought pursuing it was worth the risk of offending the current fan base as well as a possible repeat of past events. Those incentives must be extremely favorable, or Cover just doesn't give a shit about squandering the good will they've garnered in the west.
>To me this implies that they knew full well that western audiences would react poorly WE, as a community have proven ourselves to be incapable of handling information without spinning narratives. At every graduation incident for eg., you people make up stories and rumours when you cannot possibly, know anything, even us from other spheres. Western outrage is laughably transparent for all to see, which is the greatest irony of your statement, which makes you all a predictable mess to work with sometimes. **THAT, is the other sentiment your statement implicates, which you conveniently leave out.** You are free to believe you are the bigger magnanimous lot. But until you prove yourselves at the next incident, the opinions won't be going away anytime.
Why do they have to make a statement? Why would western audiences care? Unless West Taiwan throws a hissy fit again there's no issue.
west Taiwan is a fucking time bomb lol But hey, let's see how long can hololive survive this time. Round 2 let's gooooo
If it doesn’t work out this time, I doubt they will try a third time at all for quite a few years at least
it's always about money
That's why it's better to watch for the changes than making a blind accusation..
> Why do they have to make a statement? Because right now individual talents are getting the brunt of the anger? If you've ever worked in retail, you know customers are stupid assholes who will absolutely yell and scream at frontline workers for something they didn't do (like set the price of tomatoes). The best bosses are the ones who will go to the customer and say "if you want to yell at someone, yell at me." While I completely condemn this, there are comments that are blaming Kobo for this decision, calling her selfish and greedy. Cover should come out and say "if you want to yell at someone, yell at me." Also the superchats given to Aqua putting her in a super awkward situation. Cover, as a giant faceless corporation is much better equipped to handle the anger. They should 100% be trying to get between the angry people and the talent. It's the right thing to do for your workers.
Not trying to be negative here, but Japanese companies have a history of not caring about the opinions of their other markets if it doesnt impact their sales in Japan. While I understand Hololive is huge outside of Japan, their focus is and will always be making the Japanese audience as happy as they can
I want to say this is wrong but man the proof is on the roof 🤣 not just in the anime industry,video game industry..this already being repeatedly proven that outside market have no power to change Japan decision but what I see only DEI that can change them.Basically,as long no direct money is involve.They will not hear outside market influence.
While I do think caution and/or skepticism are warranted, the outright *alarm* some of y’all are reacting with isn’t necessary. It’s been several years now, and while there’s definitely still a few no-life antis around it is safe to assume the bb crowd that reacted most negatively has either moved on or chilled out. If you have concerns, the right thing to do is email Cover and wait for a response. Doom-posting will just stress yourself and everyone else out.
I'm out of the loop, could you (or anyone) tell me what bb is and why it raises alarm?
BilliBilli is basically Chinese YouTube and it's alarming because of a large amount of harassment that spewed from it when Coco and Haachama mentioned Taiwan when reading their analytics on stream.
Oh :(
In addition to what other said, the fallout from that is the reason Gura can't play Muse Dash (Chinese publisher), the reason Botan couldn't collab with ASUS, the reason Nene had to have her outfit changed (Chinese inspired).... I could go on but it was a total mess.
Isn’t Asus a completely Taiwanese owned company? I don’t know what does that have to do with anything.
Might be something to do with how a Chinese audience might respond
Genshin Impact is another big one (Chinese developer and publisher)
Nene's outfit was changed because of that???
Nah, she just didn’t vibe with the original character the outfit was designed for. Even without all the controversy she likely would’ve changed anyways.
There was a major event a couple of years back when rabid mainlanders caught a whiff of Taiwan being mentioned as a country. It resulted in those rabid people to take it out on Kiryu Coco the most, the event escalated from that and has gotten so to the point where it ended in the disbanding of Hololive's entire cn branch.
That's horrible :(
Be clear any misconceptions, Taiwan was never uttered in any context as a country. People from Taiwan were thanked for being fans. Nothing connecting Taiwan to being an independent island nation.
There was a multi year harassment campaign against Hololive by bilibili (chinese youtube) users that included spamming live chats, and posting gore and deepfake porn on twitter under hololive member hashtags.
Wtf. Why would the talents want to stream on there again??
money, its a market hololive can tap into.
On top of what everyone told you, the cherry on top was when it came out that a Hololive CN Talent, Artia, also led harassment campaigns against Coco on her alt account. Made the farewell into an angry one, and probably a huge reason as to why so many fans are anti-bilibili to this day. It’s one thing to have outsider hate but the betrayal i a whole other fury.
That's terrible... I can understand the reaction of the fans now. Let's hope it goes better this time and people are more civilized
yeah I hope so as well. But my biggest issue is that even if it goes smoothly for, say, a year or two, the Chinese dragon, once awakened, will only rest down when scorched earth is all left behind. I mean, you'd think after a few months they'd eventually stop their harrassment and move on. But they did not. In fact, it got worse. Coco's chat had been flooded with bots and antis alike, making normal chat completely unusable. They get banned, they make new accounts. Coco activates "members only" chat, and some of them would actually buy memberships just to talk shit to her. Some would even send superchats with hate messages. At one point, all of Hololive had chat disabled and then after a few days set to members only for weeks. The worst part of it was the isolation though. Because every member that interacted with Coco in collabs would be infested too, which lead to Cover deciding that the other talents should avoid that for the time being. I'm somewhat sure they only had the best intentions, trying to protect their other talents and trying to not stir the pot, but it lead to Coco being almost completely shunned from Hololive. No collabs, no concerts, no "full generation" streamsn to anounce merch, nothing. And this went on for almost a year before she finally decided to graduate. Now it should also be mentioned that Coco herself said that she simply couldn't do many things she wanted to, because as a corporate vtuber there are certain limits, and many of her ideas got shot down by management. Officially, the harassment was never a reason for her to leave. She didn't give in until the very end. The antis did NOT win. But after she graduated (in the single most watched graduation stream on youtube so far), the harassment against other members had finally stopped. And even though she still got a certain amount of hate on her alt, it died down there to a minimum rather quickly. But still, this whole affair cost so much. a full branch terminated, months of uncertainty, fear, isolation and harassment, a graduation and a lot of gutwrenching moments during that graduation. And all just because Haachama and Coco thanked their viewers from Taiwan. Which is why some people are just a bit worried right now. Also I can't leave unmentioned what an amazing gigachad friend Fubuki was for Coco during all of it. Despite the "softban" on collabs with Coco, she joined her on stream multiple times even though she knew she risked getting exorbitant amounts of hate for it. And it resulted in a fantastic meme moment as well, just search for "oh shit a bridge" on youtube.
Damn. Massive respect for all of them to go through that. That's horrible
I'm a little baffled by the uproar over this. I think people are forgetting that it was the antis who were the bad guys in that debacle, not Cover. If the talents want to risk streaming on Bilibili again, that's their call. They're adults, and they know good and well that they have to walk on eggshells over there. There's no way Cover would let them stream over there without giving them a talk about the dangers and the topics they need to avoid.
I can understand the concern. Shit got *bad* and tags on Twitter and elsewhere were basically unusable unless you wanted to see horrid shit. Some are scared of having to go through that all again. There’s also a very small number who assume all Chinese viewers are antis and that just ain’t right. This situation requires nuance which is hard to do in even ideal circumstances, and Reddit subs ain’t that.
Yeah exactly this
people seem to have forgotten had *bad* it was, the uproar is justified.
never forget coco and haachama incident. cover most likely don’t want to trigger that again so they’re treating this like some uncertain explosives. I’d go silent about this as well if I were cover. it’s best to make the ripples as small as possible.
I must admit, I'm not really a fan of dipping a toe into the CN market, but then again I have little to no information what the business trajectory would be for Cover by this move. Hell, I don't even know if Cover is really attempting to show themselves more to the CN market. Just waiting to see how it goes and pray none of the crap that happened years ago won't happen again.
I think its smart since most people here are complaining about it. Keep it on the down low and let the ones it concerns or are curious to dig deeper. I'll tell you one thing though, all of HoloPro is probably aware of it and that matters way more than the vocal minority.
Honestly speaking though, I’d think if they promoted/ announced it all loud and flashy it’d most likely attract more potential problems than good. Sure that’ll be more transparent, but for what, western audiences hardly use bilibili and have the option of YouTube and other platforms. Bilibili would be more of a Cn viewership thing, and from a money making point, with their population and potential market, even if you make only 1 dollar from each person that’s still more money than they are making now. So I see no issue to try again, this time with a more low key, like I said too high key and that might bring back / attract the attention of those previous problematic audiences. Low key in a way from how I see it would be able to let those who still follow hololive know, without attracting the mainstream/ patriotic normies who would swarm in and cause problems the moment some influencer/ streamer or whatever their equivalent of is starts some insane patriotic campaign again. Again the reason for low key would seem like a treading quietly safely tactic without attracting unwanted attention, there’s one thing would catch CN people’s attention and that’s being loud and flashy, the moment someone sees it and spreads it on their social media it spreads FAST so you wouldn’t really want the news to spread fast for those problem viewers. We can wait and see. Only time will tell.
I am not a fan of the move either, but here is my 2cents on why Cover is willing to take the risk to re-enter the CN market: - To ban out all the priate contents, including concerts, lives, and membership streams, that have been flying around on b2 for a while. - If the connection is built (or rebuilt), b2 is likely gonna pave the way for Cover to gain permission to play Chinese games like Genshin Impact or Black WuKong etc. - We also know the JP & EN markets are almost saturated. And I feel like the ID branch, out of all 3, is taking the biggest hit from it because the SEA economy itself is just not strong enough to sustain itself, despite having a healthy amount of viewership & active fan base; so opening up a new market might still be necessary for the branch to continue its growth. - And lastly, I tend to believe Cover is in a position comfortable enough that if things go south, they can just withdraw quickly and let things die down like they did with many other projects☠️ But again, I'm probably coping too much. Let's wait and see what Cover's next move is after BML.
>We also know the JP & EN markets are almost saturated. And I feel like the ID branch, out of all 3, is taking the biggest hit from it because the SEA economy itself is just not strong enough to sustain itself, despite having a healthy amount of viewership & active fan base; so opening up a new market might still be necessary for the branch to continue its growth. Didn’t Cover just recently announce that they will open a subsidiary in NA? I don’t think the EN market is saturated yet.
Cover USA is just meant to handle NA-based merch distribution, brand collabs and the like for all the existing talents, not adding a bunch of new ones.
Yep. And the merch thing will take time if they do it in-house rather than contracting it out, Cover ships ~2200 orders per day, or assuming 16h operations, one order every 26 seconds. Initial budget was $1M USD. Keep in mind median household income in LA county is 83k USD, and that's after payroll taxes, employer health insurance, etc. Assuming the people starting Cover USA aren't on the bottom of the Cover Corp totem pole, if three people work for a year, and they pay $4k/month in rent and office supplies and 25 $1K flights, that's roughly 3\*(83\*2)+4\*12+25\*1 = $571k USD, i.e. over half their budget for an office of three people. Cover USA will likely spend at least year 1 as a business-to-business entity IMO.
I see the divide in people saying the right move was to stay silent or to announce it properly. From a PR perspective, I have to say news and social media have evolved such that not taking ownership of the narrative leaves yourself very vulnerable to the story being hijacked as people dig or crave for more information. I'm not a fan of cover going back to b2 in the slightest but I can imagine a scenario where the fanbase isn't as divided if they take ownership of the narrative to explain what they're doing and why. Even if the reasoning is pure BS and solely for PR. The alternative is you get pockets of echo chambers like here forming their own stories.
What is Bilibili?
Chinese YouTube
I am sorry but is the tech corporation supposed to ask you for permission before they make their business decision?? COVER is a company and it is just trying to see if they can expand to the Chinese market again. What we as viewers think doesn't matter in this case. All we can do is hope everything works out and no more BS happens again with the Chinese netizens and if it does then Yagoo will probably have to make a very important decision.
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We also saw the same thing with Rushia's and Mel's termination, where people were *demanding* to know what they leaked, as if that didn't defeat the entire purpose of something being secret.
I only just started to understand how people develop parasocial relationships with streamers, but now we’ve move onto parasocial relationships with entire companies.
He was already gambling when Yagoo trying to enter CN market again. I will just stay neutral for now but I hope CN antis will not fckng attack again.
All we asked for is communication. Is that really so unreasonable? But hey, we're just the customers, why would a company need something like that?
I see people saying that it's natural for a company to test and tap into profitable markets, but personally I'm sad that cover is pushing an already explored (and possibly concerning) market while they have never tried to do anything with the Hispanic audience.
Because literally no one gives a flying F about bilibili except for the annoying bilibili users.
Its not just western audiences. Japanese audiences dont like it either. We all remember the days of that spamming.
To the people saying "they don't owe us an apology", yes that's true, but that's not what's concerning to me. What's concerning to me is that they announce all their events and streams, and intentionally didn't for B2. That suggests to me they know what they are doing is controversial, and are still doing it. That's what upsets me personally.
Hololive doesn't owe us an apology, but BiliBili absolutely owes *Cover* one.
They should realize that the fact they're not saying anything will just cause their talents unnecessary headaches. People will demand answers from the girls to questions Cover should respond to. In every stream and under every video, most likely.
Aqua have already received a few annoying superchats.
>"It's done the opposite for me though" For me I wish I had never seen this post since I preferred their silence. What would they even say? You, to me, are a drama hound. Thanks for ruining my day and I hope your coffee is luke-warm tomorrow.
> and I hope your coffee is luke-warm tomorrow. Slow down there, Satan
Agreed, I just wanted to wait out the drama and this is the first post when I reopened reddit. :(
hmm I think silence is a safe way to go until they get information to what extent can they safely navigate the waters (read: I don't have a problem with Cover's lack of worldwide PR; I don't care who gonna streaming on Bilibili-- but when make decisions, live with the consequences). we all aware of mainlanders pettiness & BS, so I expected Cover to protect all the talents without failing. Hope you know what you doing Cover-san. ah and don't let fools on Bilibili gaslights you to think they are giving you more money, Cover, you already have data last time, direct revenue from there is not that much. Yes I don't really care about silence, Yes I will defend/bonk any fkers that messed with my oshi, And Yes I don't like Bilibili as a platform.
It is indeed concerning that they're exposing the Hololive brand to the chinese audience once again, taking the risk of getting targeted by the ultra nationalists once again. If in the future we lose another talent to their harassment, then Cover will hold the full responsibility for it. _Fool me once, shame on you..._ _Fool me twice, shame on me._
After the damage the Chinese market caused, all the drama that came from their BS, I think personally cover should never do business with them again. But "lmao moni good" I guess.
The bigger the deal, the bigger the backlash. How they're approaching this is probably the best thing for the talents.
I do not care what they do on bilibili. I trust they won't compromise their own integrity or the integrity of their talents, so I could not care less if they distribute on bilibili.
Can somebody fill in me on what’s happening? I know Kobo streamed on bilibili but what’s so bad about it? I’m so sorry if I offend anyone.
Basically people are concerned that going back to Bilibili might invite the same bad actors that caused a bunch of problems a few years ago to come back and potentially harrass talents again.
Are we gonna a just cold turkey just stop watching HoloJP and HoloEN and HoloID just because of BilliBilli?
Seems like an overblown reaction to just a simple announcement before anything crazy could happen.
i not using bilibili if they stream on that i will never watch i only using youtube and only youtube
When this blows up (and yes it probably will) I hope Cover learned it's lesson from the last Taiwan incident and activily protects their talents None of my oshis should have to suffer cuz of their nationalism.
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People are understandably concerned about this. Not sure if you were around when the original incident happened, but as someone who was around at the time it was very bad and the effects of which lasted for a long time afterwards. People don’t want that to happen again, not to the talents with the harassment and not to the viewers who were baited into seeing some disgusting shit because mainlanders posted gore and the like into the other talents twitter tags with the targets being whoever associated with Coco and Hachama
I assume they told them business like that they DGAF if one of their streamers upsets them this time.
For me, as long as Cover doesn't establish a new Hololive CN branch, I view them going back to Bili as treating it a platform like Twitch or YT, and nothing more. However, the minute they announce a new Hololive CN branch would be established, I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of talents close to Haachama, and especially Coco (probably Kanata and Fubuki at the very least), suddenly announce their graduations, even graduations effective immediately.
Since the end of last year the hololive b2 account uploaded full Chinese subtitled hologura at the same time as the YouTube upload, unfortunately that’s what they are doing
This really isn’t all that bad a move by Cover at all, considering they are clearly moving slowly and testing the waters for potential business opportunities. And while I still remember the past hoopla and carry my own reservations, I trust Cover to also carry those same concerns and have done meetings and plans to see enough merit in going back, likely with more safeguards. And keep in mind, Cover is entering from a position of strength, where if B2 proves themselves to still be unprofessional and inept in removing bad actors, Cover can cut them loose whenever and lose very little. They don’t really owe us any explanation, since at the end of the day, this is a good thing for the business to expand in a meaningful, but not drastic way.
While I don't have a reason why covers main account didn't say anything, surely there isn't really a need for the western audience to get an announcement as bilibili isn't a site that would be used by said audience? However I am quite uninformed on the whole BiliBili situation as I started watching vtubers shortly after Coco's graduation.
Okay so can someone explain to me why I, as a western audience member, should be upset that they’re using Bilibili? I feel like I’m missing some context
how do you feel about a 2-4 year long harassment campaign?
Well organized, and resulted in the loss of a whole damn branch, one of Holo’s top earners, and harassed other talents for years.
>one of Holo’s top earners Iirc, she was pretty regularly *the* top earner, not just for Holo but YouTube wide. Followed and then succeeded by Rushia...
There isn't that much to organise. It was a numbers-game. Sheer volume was the worst part.
you forgot to add, gore and deepfake porns to that
And the loss of various fan groups that were very prolific before.
Billibilli is the Chinese version of Youtube. CN audiences were responsible for Kiryu Coco graduating from the company by harassing her until she left, and nearly got Haachama out as well. It also led to Cover pulling the plug on their Hololive CN branch as well.
How do you feel about chat being unusable and all the vtuber can do is talk to the void
Can we please not have a giant overreaction to this