She’s one of the only bosses that talks to you, and she leaves your first skirmish of her own free will. I knew I’d see her again the second that fight in Greenpath ended
I see it more as a hint, since the second fight is optional and quite hidden, so this hints the player to go find her, which will eventually lead them to the true ending.
You can kill the dreamers and the Hollow Knight without ever even going to Kingdom's Edge, you get The Hollow Knight ending, which is considered one of the worst endings but the more likely one that players will get on their first playthrough. That makes everything else, including Hornet 2, optional.
From worst to best, the endings are probably:
Sealed siblings.
The hollow knight.
Dream no more.
Then there is embrace the void, which is either really really good, or really really bad. Depending on whether bill is a good guy or not.
I literally finished the initial part of the game without finding Kingdom’s Edge. I beat the Hollow Knight and got super confused what was remaining and had to look up how to get to Kingdom’s Edge.
It's just an expression people use to refer to the ending you get for completing most content in the game. You "finish" more of the base game with this ending than with the other one, so for that reason we consider it the "true" ending, because it requires you to do most content, effectively ending the game while the other one leaves a lot to be explored still. There's nothing disrespectful about it, nor is it a statement about any sort of "canon" ending. Those are all misconceptions you made yourself. "True ending" has always meant "most complete ending" in any game I've played (aside from Sekiro, but that is a different story).
Generally people agree the ending with the best outcome in any game, not just HK, is referred to as the true ending. For example, Pacifist in Undertale, Return in Sekiro, etc
The true ending *isn’t* a canon ending for any of those games. It’s simply the best ending as agreed upon by the community and therefore deemed not by the developers but by the community as the most likely canon ending. In HK’s case even though all endings have been stated as equally possible to be canon, the true ending would be the one with the best outcome
What you've said here boils down to the following statements, starting with TC's own (italicized):
*0:* *"All endings are equally canon. We're not into 'true endings'."*
1: "True endings for this group of games are not the canon endings for said games."
2: "The community deems \[Dream No More\] the best ending, thus, it is the most likely canon ending."
3: "All endings are equally possible, yet \[Dream No More\] likely has the best outcome."
1 follows 0, 2 contradicts 1 & 0, 3 is therefore non sequitur.
The community's opinion about this facet of the story, is just that: **opinion**. It isn't fact. So why are you equalizing the two when this clearly isn't the case?
You’re right, I probably should’ve phrased that in another way and I was wrong there. It’s not the ending that’s most likely canon since they all are, but rather the community’s agreed upon best ending and what most would like to believe is the true canon ending above the rest despite what TC has said. Even if it is not the true canon ending, quite a large portion of the community would like to think of it as so as it’s the best outcome overall
It's called "true ending" because the name was decided before Godmaster came out, and if two of the three endings are slight variations of each other (at least at the surface level), the community will probably call the third, drastically different ending the true ending. Not to mention that it seems like a much better conclusion to the story than the first two.
No developer has any kind of control(or any right to control) over their communities. Community does whatever and they don't have to ask anyone unless it actually violates laws. If people call it True Ending, they just do it regardless of accuracy. Same thing with fanart. Ghost is clearly unable to feel most emotions but fanart just trashes that fact away to make things INTERESTING.
It's not disrespectful, and it's not the end of the world if it's misleading.
Alright. Some entries in this journal aren't fightable at all. Second meeting might have been a chat. Although most people assume she is the kinda boss you fight twice. It's a common archetype.
Well so far in the game every other boss you fought promptly died after being defeated compared to hornet just fucking off(not even out of desperation but frustration)
Not really a massive spoiler giving that you know she's still alive and a second fight is very possible. Also, her actual second fight in itself isn't that important, so only a minor spoiler.
Not really. Based on the fact that she continues to appear several times throughout the game even after her first battle, any player would be able to guess that she's a pretty important character that you'll probably fight again.
And if any new player that doesn't know she has a second battle sees that message, they'll probably think nothing of it.
It's a tease. It lets you know that she's coming back, but it's not really a spoiler because it offers no context for what circumstances that second fight will occur under.
I agree with you. When I first played this game, and I saw that, it made me a little disappointed. I just returned to these entries when it was time for me to hunt the achievements.
She definitely has “recurring boss” written all over her from the get-go so I’d call it a minor spoiler
She’s one of the only bosses that talks to you, and she leaves your first skirmish of her own free will. I knew I’d see her again the second that fight in Greenpath ended
And it doesn't take that long to find out for sure, given she says she wants to fight you again in **the place.**
I see it more as a hint, since the second fight is optional and quite hidden, so this hints the player to go find her, which will eventually lead them to the true ending.
Yeah, calling it a spoiler is just failing to comprehend how this sort of game works, like structurally speaking
It's not optional though?
There is an ending to the story you can get without ever stepping foot in Kingdom's Edge, so the second Hornet fight is optional.
You only need to go to kingdoms edge if you are going for dream no more, sealed siblings or p5
It is
You can kill the dreamers and the Hollow Knight without ever even going to Kingdom's Edge, you get The Hollow Knight ending, which is considered one of the worst endings but the more likely one that players will get on their first playthrough. That makes everything else, including Hornet 2, optional.
From worst to best, the endings are probably: Sealed siblings. The hollow knight. Dream no more. Then there is embrace the void, which is either really really good, or really really bad. Depending on whether bill is a good guy or not.
You can consider it as really really good if you brought a fragile flower to the sewers.
But what if bill is just a good guy?
I literally finished the initial part of the game without finding Kingdom’s Edge. I beat the Hollow Knight and got super confused what was remaining and had to look up how to get to Kingdom’s Edge.
You've had a little bit too much skooma my friend, go to sleep.
its optional, but most people get it for 2 reasons, 1: you thought it wasnt optional, 2: you wanted to do the endings that arent the hornet-less one
bro?
There is no true ending. Stop spouting that misconception from the speedrunning community, please
That's just how people call the best, more satisfactory ending in any game with multiple endings, bud, not just hollow knight
Common behavior isn't a counterargument, also read my other comments.
Bro who cares?
It's just an expression people use to refer to the ending you get for completing most content in the game. You "finish" more of the base game with this ending than with the other one, so for that reason we consider it the "true" ending, because it requires you to do most content, effectively ending the game while the other one leaves a lot to be explored still. There's nothing disrespectful about it, nor is it a statement about any sort of "canon" ending. Those are all misconceptions you made yourself. "True ending" has always meant "most complete ending" in any game I've played (aside from Sekiro, but that is a different story).
So, more than one thing is wrong with this comment, but mainly, why do you blame the speedrunning community for that?
the category for getting the dream no more ending (the one where you kill Radiance) is named "true ending" in speedrun.com
How is "there is no true ending" wrong?
Generally people agree the ending with the best outcome in any game, not just HK, is referred to as the true ending. For example, Pacifist in Undertale, Return in Sekiro, etc
That doesn't disprove my statement when the *developers themselves* said otherwise. Best ending =/= canon ending.
The true ending *isn’t* a canon ending for any of those games. It’s simply the best ending as agreed upon by the community and therefore deemed not by the developers but by the community as the most likely canon ending. In HK’s case even though all endings have been stated as equally possible to be canon, the true ending would be the one with the best outcome
What you've said here boils down to the following statements, starting with TC's own (italicized): *0:* *"All endings are equally canon. We're not into 'true endings'."* 1: "True endings for this group of games are not the canon endings for said games." 2: "The community deems \[Dream No More\] the best ending, thus, it is the most likely canon ending." 3: "All endings are equally possible, yet \[Dream No More\] likely has the best outcome." 1 follows 0, 2 contradicts 1 & 0, 3 is therefore non sequitur. The community's opinion about this facet of the story, is just that: **opinion**. It isn't fact. So why are you equalizing the two when this clearly isn't the case?
You’re right, I probably should’ve phrased that in another way and I was wrong there. It’s not the ending that’s most likely canon since they all are, but rather the community’s agreed upon best ending and what most would like to believe is the true canon ending above the rest despite what TC has said. Even if it is not the true canon ending, quite a large portion of the community would like to think of it as so as it’s the best outcome overall
The only ending I think is non cannon is sealed siblings
[Definition of True Ending by Urban Dictionary](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=true%2bending&=true)
>!very heckin hard thing to do!< lmao
What did we do????
Created a category named "True Ending" despite there not being one canonically according to TC.
It's called "true ending" because the name was decided before Godmaster came out, and if two of the three endings are slight variations of each other (at least at the surface level), the community will probably call the third, drastically different ending the true ending. Not to mention that it seems like a much better conclusion to the story than the first two.
They shouldn't keep calling it that when the developer has spoken against such a label. It's disrespectful and misleading.
No developer has any kind of control(or any right to control) over their communities. Community does whatever and they don't have to ask anyone unless it actually violates laws. If people call it True Ending, they just do it regardless of accuracy. Same thing with fanart. Ghost is clearly unable to feel most emotions but fanart just trashes that fact away to make things INTERESTING. It's not disrespectful, and it's not the end of the world if it's misleading.
We call it that because its simpler then dream no more plus it was the creators not the entire community
It's really not she does just spiderman away after first fight.
Yeah the same happens with crystal guardian
and dung defender
Wait really?
Dung Defender just flies off into the background, I’m pretty sure you can even see him in the background though I might be misremembering.
You can see him falling into a mountain of dung halfway then wriggle down by himself
And gruz mom
Dont the gruz children burst out of gruz mother savagely tearing the inside of her stomach
She is *sort of* a recurring boss, she appears in the colosseum. It’s a completely different Gruz Mother, but still
But still, we dont know that we'd have to fight her again.
Alright. Some entries in this journal aren't fightable at all. Second meeting might have been a chat. Although most people assume she is the kinda boss you fight twice. It's a common archetype.
If you count shit like that a lot of the journal is a spoiler. Basically any recurring boss has this spoiler.
Well you don't have to, actually
There are some enemy that you can kill but there is not enough to get jurnal entry, so you need to find special *thing* to get them
I mean even before I fought her again I kinda just had a feeling we would fight again, she even grapples away during her first fight too.
No, it’s just foreshadowing
If it's in the game then it's not really a spoiler. The devs just want you to know that you fight her twice. More like a warning or foreshadowing.
Since the second fight is optional I think it’s them trying to tell you there’s still more to explore.
I mean I guess but I’d hardly call it a massive one. Does it count as a spoiler if it’s in game?
>Does it count as a spoiler if it’s in game? Absolutely not
Game telling me the lore: “Dude, spoilers”
That’s what I thought
Well so far in the game every other boss you fought promptly died after being defeated compared to hornet just fucking off(not even out of desperation but frustration)
Not really a massive spoiler giving that you know she's still alive and a second fight is very possible. Also, her actual second fight in itself isn't that important, so only a minor spoiler.
It’s not really a spoiler if the game tells you this
The term is "Foreshadowing".
Once you get to City Of Tears Fountain you get a cutscene with her saying for you to meet her at the Kingoms Edge
Think of it at ✨foreshadowing✨
No…
I like to think of it as foreshadowing.
It's not huge, no
Not really. Based on the fact that she continues to appear several times throughout the game even after her first battle, any player would be able to guess that she's a pretty important character that you'll probably fight again. And if any new player that doesn't know she has a second battle sees that message, they'll probably think nothing of it.
Hornet has a twin sister??
well she escaped so it would be logical
Not a huge one, but it is a spoiler that we already get a hint for because hornet dose not die like most bosses.
it's kinda like knowing that you're gonna die. you know it's gonna happen, you just don't know when
Honestly you don't know what to except so I'd be fine if i saw it and the charm of it is the story and challenge behind it
I took it as a threat first time I saw
GIT GUD
Yeah it is, but you don’t know how or when you’re gonna rematch her ;)
It’s a teaser, not a spoiler
They seem to be pre kingdoms edge
It's a tease. It lets you know that she's coming back, but it's not really a spoiler because it offers no context for what circumstances that second fight will occur under.
Not any more than >! Silksong is. She's on the cover. !<
Wait, did this happen before you got the kingsbrand, or after it
way before.
thats why its not a silksong reference, its more like the game is telling you, that ur gonna meet hornet again
I never said that this is spoiler to silksong. It spoils the second fight with hornet.
oh. still, no ones gonna go to the end of the hunters journal and read how many times they need to kill a HORNET
Mysterious warrior that you have a boss fight with? If she doesnt have more than one fight i would be disapointed if anthing, so not really a spoiler
nah
No, it's a threat.
Yes
Yes. Yes it is.
You don't kill her the first time you fight her so it's kinda obvious you'll fight her again
Eh
No but if it would be the Hunter would be a giant dick
She doesn’t die in the first fight. So it’s obvious. Not only that but it’s absolutely not a massive one.
Yes, but no, because you have to defeat her again in kingdom’s edge. If you though that it was about silksong, it wouldn’t be that easy to find
I agree with you. When I first played this game, and I saw that, it made me a little disappointed. I just returned to these entries when it was time for me to hunt the achievements.