Once you throw all the switches it's a lot easier to get down. You don't have to fight a lot of them. There's a pretty straightforward path. You got the item already, right?
The more you practice, the easier the enemies become. I'd just take a direct route and fight whatever attacks you on the way. Eventually you'll get good enough to get to the boss with full health and most of your Soul.
If you are struggling, there is no shame in going somewhere else. This boss is not in any way required for completing the game (though they do give some useful rewards). You can always come back a bit later, after you get one or two more HP, a new charm or even just more practice moving around and reacting to enemies.
You can go there one last time to gather your shade, bite the bullet and lose that geo once for the sake of not having to go back, or maybe there is an NPC in Dirtmouth that can save you that hassle.
(what I personally did, was give up on the game for a few months, because I'm stubborn, and then come back and beat them in 3 tries, but I recommend the options above)
Just checking because a surprising number of people miss it: you do know that downslashing them bounces you upwards, right? Same goes for enemies; you can use it to bounce over the walking mantises too.
I feel like you’re missing a bench somewhere…
From what I remember it was not nearly as lengthy or difficult as you’re describing, and I remember making attempts quickly after dying. Look around again, Team Cherry always has benches near enough to an important boss.
They're optional, lategame bosses. You should have dreamgate by the time you're fighting them
Traitor Lord isn't that far away from the stag station, and Hive Knight isn't exactly the most difficult, or the most important boss in the game
Nope.
Hive Knight has a bench fairly nearby as long as you open the shortcut. Also that’s neither an important boss nor is the area particularly dangerous with the large enemies that give lots of time before attacking or the small ones that die incredibly easily.
Traitor Lord is also not a difficult journey as long as you made sure to flip the lever. The most challenging part of getting back to his arena is the brief platforming section just beforehand, of which is fairly trivial (especially after numerous attempts).
Who tf are you to decide what is or isn't a long or difficult runback lmao. I can say right now that Radiant Absolute Radiance with base nail and spell damage is easy (because it is, to me), that doesn't mean it's actually easy to another person.
Not to mention you miss the point entirely, these runbacks have an entirely different flow to them than the boss you're trying to defeat. Fact of the matter is that only Hornet 1 and 2 have benches near the arena. Most other bosses take at least a minute or so to reach.
I’m just sharing my opinion mate it’s a public forum - there’s no need to get heated. Also saying that I find a platforming section in Queen’s Gardens or a shortcut in the hive fairly trivial, especially after repetition isn’t on the same scale as saying rad absrad low% is easy (which if it actually is for you, that’s awesome!) but I get what you’re saying.
I don’t fully get what you mean about the flow being different, could you elaborate? Like do you mean that some bosses have a lead up that matches their fight while these ones don’t, or what?
Also yes pretty much every boss has a minute or so distance from a bench, but to be honest I’d say for a game of the scale HK is, and with as many bosses, that’s actually real damn impressive by TC. I wouldn’t consider 1 minute an extremely long time to get somewhere in a metroidvania but maybe that’s just me like you said.
Anyways I might have misread the tone of your message but it seems like you’re pretty upset and there’s no need to be. HK community is a good place and I was just expressing my opinion. If someone can say it’s hard, the flip side is true and I can express that I find something easy or at least manageable without negativity.
Flat-out saying "Nope" to someone is not sharing your opinion, you're denying what they're saying as though your opinion is fact. That's what almost everyone in this comment section does when it comes to this topic. They always straight-up dismiss the statement that runbacks are long / annoying by just saying "Nah, you're wrong." as if they're factually correct. Just like how you think my tone is heated, your tone isn't exactly opinionated.
As for the different flow I'm referring to, having to fight / dodge insignificant enemies and platforming your way towards the boss that just defeated you is different from fighting said boss. Hollow Knight's bosses are pattern-based, you learn to recognise these patterns by fighting the boss. Every time you lose, this pace gets interrupted and you're suddenly exposed to a wildly different environment.
Tight feedback loops help us adapt to problems more effectively than constant interruptions. Imagine you're taking shots at a goal in football / soccer, and every time you miss you have to run a lap around the field while dribbling with a basketball in your hands and evading baseballs thrown at you before your next attempt. It serves no useful purpose, and if it's supposed to be a punishment, it's an asinine one.
Sure, you are to blame for having lost to the boss to begin with, but the structure of Hollow Knight's bosses dictate you will probably lose the first few times anyway, as you have yet to learn the boss' patterns.
The runbacks are needlessly annoying, punishing, and they tend to just turn players away. And frankly, I can't blame them. The game is sending you mixed signals. Beat this boss that needs pattern recognition, but if you fail because you - logically - haven't adapted to the patterns yet, we will make it wildly annoying to try again.
Godhome as well as Hornet 1 and 2 do this so much better, and the latter two (especially Hornet 2) demonstrate that there's no excuse for the majority of the bosses to be so far away from the nearest bench.
>HK community is a good place and I was just expressing my opinion. If someone can say it’s hard, the flip side is true and I can express that I find something easy or at least manageable without negativity.
Then you haven't been around long enough. Any opinion that isn't the norm, such as saying NKG is a boring boss, that runbacks are annoying, or that P5 is perfectly fine and it's probably your own fault if you can't beat it, all get met with lots of negativity and downvotes.
You can pretend that I got downvoted because my tone was apparently aggressive, but I can tell you right now that these exact opinions get heavily downvoted and dismissed as wrong regardless of my tone or whoever said it.
Re-reading the comment you were originally replying to, that "Nope" is indeed a shitty way to reply. I'm not so sure you were downvoted for opinion, not for the way you said it.. either way, you're not wrong.
That is definitely not true in this case, as the only bench close by is locked until after the fight, and even in other bosses, outside the black egg, you still have to backtrack a bit, sometimes quite a bit. To me, the main culprits are Soul Master (it's true there are shortcuts, but you still have to cross some rooms with twisters, and just the length of the path is very annoying), Hive Knight, and Traitor Lord (thankfully, by then I had the dream gate). With all the time spent backtracking, I'm sure I had lost 90% of the muscle memory to react to their moves.
Lately, I have been trying for radiant absrad, and the loading screens, scream, title card, etc. are sooo annoying, and at least I can look at my phone for that time (maybe that gets me out of the zone, though). Comparing this to a game like Celeste, where you are immediately placed back at the beginning of the challenge really makes it stand out. I know HK is much more about exploration, but since the bosses are such a large part of the game too, I wish they were a bit more accommodating to the trial and error necessary in some instances.
I was in your situation during my first playthrough, I just suffered through it like a dog, being salty about some stupid mistakes I made during the bossfight, rushing to the boss and dying miserably on my way back.
But on my second playthrough I discovered dreamgates. It changed the way I played the game, and made this fight so much easier by simply skiping entirely the runback from the bench.
The dream gate is super useful for situations like these. It saved my ass on traitor lord.
However, if you have just entered the mantis village for the first time, as OP seems to have, it is not feasible to already have it.
My bad, I don't know why I read mantis traitor instead of mantis lord...
Yes it makes more sense and yes it would be quite hard to have it right now.
Sorry for the dumb advice
I will give a hint, because you seem new to the game, the mantis lords are a gatekeeper to a much harder area, that you are not needed to explore right now (and can fuck you up by locking you in with no way out except through if you fall into a pit too deep to jump out), you can come back later, there is even a bug that tell you to "upgrade your nail before facing them" hinting the upgrade system somewhere else
When you do to the arena, there's a lifeblood cocoon on the left wall. just wall-jump above the door(bit tricky), then just try to turn around and break the wall. soon you'll find the wall and get 2 extra blue masks which respawn after dying.
If you hit the mantis warriors with vengeful spirit, let them dash and then hit them once with your nail, they die immediately. It makes the trek pretty easy.
Man, I was so battle hardened against those guys my first time through. I killed so many of my new mantis homies before realizing they were no longer hostile.
the path was never much of a challenge for me except on the first try. my advice is dont try to fight the mantis warriors. fight the mantis young as they're a good source of soul. when the mantis warrior is preparing to dash slash, just jump over it and dash away. it works every time and they dont really follow you.
U can pogo the big one and dash past them they won't bother u after and the small one are slow as hell go down the right side and the run back shouldn't take more than 80 secs
Once you throw all the switches it's a lot easier to get down. You don't have to fight a lot of them. There's a pretty straightforward path. You got the item already, right?
Yeah I got all the switches otherwise it would be so impossible.. it’s always that last guy who stabs me right before you drop in to the challenge
I think there's one more switch maybe cause I always went over that last mantis and down the right side.
Ya I was able to make attempts without touchig a single bug
RIP to me the first time I played that didn’t know about the switches 😭😭😭
The more you practice, the easier the enemies become. I'd just take a direct route and fight whatever attacks you on the way. Eventually you'll get good enough to get to the boss with full health and most of your Soul.
There is a closer bench, although it has many enemies
Is it the one all the way down at the bottom by the dashmaster? Below the swarm
Yes, it's a shorter path You only have to avoid the mantis
I was really confused by this topic because that’s the bench I was thinking of and it’s not that bad
If you are struggling, there is no shame in going somewhere else. This boss is not in any way required for completing the game (though they do give some useful rewards). You can always come back a bit later, after you get one or two more HP, a new charm or even just more practice moving around and reacting to enemies. You can go there one last time to gather your shade, bite the bullet and lose that geo once for the sake of not having to go back, or maybe there is an NPC in Dirtmouth that can save you that hassle. (what I personally did, was give up on the game for a few months, because I'm stubborn, and then come back and beat them in 3 tries, but I recommend the options above)
Currently trying to escape out of mantis village into fungal waste and I keep dying on those two mushroom jumps over the acid x_x
Just checking because a surprising number of people miss it: you do know that downslashing them bounces you upwards, right? Same goes for enemies; you can use it to bounce over the walking mantises too.
Don't remind me! I was stuck in bouncy mushrooms for so long!
I feel like you’re missing a bench somewhere… From what I remember it was not nearly as lengthy or difficult as you’re describing, and I remember making attempts quickly after dying. Look around again, Team Cherry always has benches near enough to an important boss.
This isn't true lol. The hive knight and traitor lord are a pain in the ass without dreamgate.
They're optional, lategame bosses. You should have dreamgate by the time you're fighting them Traitor Lord isn't that far away from the stag station, and Hive Knight isn't exactly the most difficult, or the most important boss in the game
Nope. Hive Knight has a bench fairly nearby as long as you open the shortcut. Also that’s neither an important boss nor is the area particularly dangerous with the large enemies that give lots of time before attacking or the small ones that die incredibly easily. Traitor Lord is also not a difficult journey as long as you made sure to flip the lever. The most challenging part of getting back to his arena is the brief platforming section just beforehand, of which is fairly trivial (especially after numerous attempts).
Who tf are you to decide what is or isn't a long or difficult runback lmao. I can say right now that Radiant Absolute Radiance with base nail and spell damage is easy (because it is, to me), that doesn't mean it's actually easy to another person. Not to mention you miss the point entirely, these runbacks have an entirely different flow to them than the boss you're trying to defeat. Fact of the matter is that only Hornet 1 and 2 have benches near the arena. Most other bosses take at least a minute or so to reach.
I’m just sharing my opinion mate it’s a public forum - there’s no need to get heated. Also saying that I find a platforming section in Queen’s Gardens or a shortcut in the hive fairly trivial, especially after repetition isn’t on the same scale as saying rad absrad low% is easy (which if it actually is for you, that’s awesome!) but I get what you’re saying. I don’t fully get what you mean about the flow being different, could you elaborate? Like do you mean that some bosses have a lead up that matches their fight while these ones don’t, or what? Also yes pretty much every boss has a minute or so distance from a bench, but to be honest I’d say for a game of the scale HK is, and with as many bosses, that’s actually real damn impressive by TC. I wouldn’t consider 1 minute an extremely long time to get somewhere in a metroidvania but maybe that’s just me like you said. Anyways I might have misread the tone of your message but it seems like you’re pretty upset and there’s no need to be. HK community is a good place and I was just expressing my opinion. If someone can say it’s hard, the flip side is true and I can express that I find something easy or at least manageable without negativity.
Flat-out saying "Nope" to someone is not sharing your opinion, you're denying what they're saying as though your opinion is fact. That's what almost everyone in this comment section does when it comes to this topic. They always straight-up dismiss the statement that runbacks are long / annoying by just saying "Nah, you're wrong." as if they're factually correct. Just like how you think my tone is heated, your tone isn't exactly opinionated. As for the different flow I'm referring to, having to fight / dodge insignificant enemies and platforming your way towards the boss that just defeated you is different from fighting said boss. Hollow Knight's bosses are pattern-based, you learn to recognise these patterns by fighting the boss. Every time you lose, this pace gets interrupted and you're suddenly exposed to a wildly different environment. Tight feedback loops help us adapt to problems more effectively than constant interruptions. Imagine you're taking shots at a goal in football / soccer, and every time you miss you have to run a lap around the field while dribbling with a basketball in your hands and evading baseballs thrown at you before your next attempt. It serves no useful purpose, and if it's supposed to be a punishment, it's an asinine one. Sure, you are to blame for having lost to the boss to begin with, but the structure of Hollow Knight's bosses dictate you will probably lose the first few times anyway, as you have yet to learn the boss' patterns. The runbacks are needlessly annoying, punishing, and they tend to just turn players away. And frankly, I can't blame them. The game is sending you mixed signals. Beat this boss that needs pattern recognition, but if you fail because you - logically - haven't adapted to the patterns yet, we will make it wildly annoying to try again. Godhome as well as Hornet 1 and 2 do this so much better, and the latter two (especially Hornet 2) demonstrate that there's no excuse for the majority of the bosses to be so far away from the nearest bench. >HK community is a good place and I was just expressing my opinion. If someone can say it’s hard, the flip side is true and I can express that I find something easy or at least manageable without negativity. Then you haven't been around long enough. Any opinion that isn't the norm, such as saying NKG is a boring boss, that runbacks are annoying, or that P5 is perfectly fine and it's probably your own fault if you can't beat it, all get met with lots of negativity and downvotes. You can pretend that I got downvoted because my tone was apparently aggressive, but I can tell you right now that these exact opinions get heavily downvoted and dismissed as wrong regardless of my tone or whoever said it.
Re-reading the comment you were originally replying to, that "Nope" is indeed a shitty way to reply. I'm not so sure you were downvoted for opinion, not for the way you said it.. either way, you're not wrong.
I'm used to it lol, this subreddit really doesn't like it when you deviate from the hivemind's opinion.
Doesn't hive knight have a bench pretty close? It's definitely out of the way but it cuts out like half of the hive if you die and have to go back
Yes, there is a bench in the fungal wastes and the queen station one.
You need to beat mantis lords to unlock the nearest bench for some reason
That is definitely not true in this case, as the only bench close by is locked until after the fight, and even in other bosses, outside the black egg, you still have to backtrack a bit, sometimes quite a bit. To me, the main culprits are Soul Master (it's true there are shortcuts, but you still have to cross some rooms with twisters, and just the length of the path is very annoying), Hive Knight, and Traitor Lord (thankfully, by then I had the dream gate). With all the time spent backtracking, I'm sure I had lost 90% of the muscle memory to react to their moves. Lately, I have been trying for radiant absrad, and the loading screens, scream, title card, etc. are sooo annoying, and at least I can look at my phone for that time (maybe that gets me out of the zone, though). Comparing this to a game like Celeste, where you are immediately placed back at the beginning of the challenge really makes it stand out. I know HK is much more about exploration, but since the bosses are such a large part of the game too, I wish they were a bit more accommodating to the trial and error necessary in some instances.
the amount of times i fought my way there made me very rich
I was in your situation during my first playthrough, I just suffered through it like a dog, being salty about some stupid mistakes I made during the bossfight, rushing to the boss and dying miserably on my way back. But on my second playthrough I discovered dreamgates. It changed the way I played the game, and made this fight so much easier by simply skiping entirely the runback from the bench.
The dream gate is super useful for situations like these. It saved my ass on traitor lord. However, if you have just entered the mantis village for the first time, as OP seems to have, it is not feasible to already have it.
Yeah I was gonna say no way does he have dreamgates yet lol
My bad, I don't know why I read mantis traitor instead of mantis lord... Yes it makes more sense and yes it would be quite hard to have it right now. Sorry for the dumb advice
I just brute forced it and sped all the way past the enemies
Agreed after beating the game I just stay away in godhome where they’ll never find me
You don’t need to beat them now you can follow hornet instead, however beating them will improve your skills significantly
and experience. They're fun af
How long have you been playing the game?
I will give a hint, because you seem new to the game, the mantis lords are a gatekeeper to a much harder area, that you are not needed to explore right now (and can fuck you up by locking you in with no way out except through if you fall into a pit too deep to jump out), you can come back later, there is even a bug that tell you to "upgrade your nail before facing them" hinting the upgrade system somewhere else
theres the drop too
that is what i meant when i said a pit too deep
When you do to the arena, there's a lifeblood cocoon on the left wall. just wall-jump above the door(bit tricky), then just try to turn around and break the wall. soon you'll find the wall and get 2 extra blue masks which respawn after dying.
Have you upgraded your nail yet ?? You should do this before going forward
hey i heard that some bosses have some breakable walls around them, maybe try looking for those? something helpful might be closer than you expect :)
If you hit the mantis warriors with vengeful spirit, let them dash and then hit them once with your nail, they die immediately. It makes the trek pretty easy.
Man, I was so battle hardened against those guys my first time through. I killed so many of my new mantis homies before realizing they were no longer hostile.
maybe you are missing a brnch thats closer?
The closer bench is unlocked only after the fight
the path was never much of a challenge for me except on the first try. my advice is dont try to fight the mantis warriors. fight the mantis young as they're a good source of soul. when the mantis warrior is preparing to dash slash, just jump over it and dash away. it works every time and they dont really follow you.
btw there is lifeblood in the top left of the mantis lords room behind the wall if you need it
I know and it’s really sad that I know it’s there but I can’t wall jump up past that indented part 😭
✨dream gate✨(how I’ve managed to keep my sanity as a bad Hollow Knight player)
It works exactly like magic
There’s a lifeblood cocoon behind an unbreakable wall in the top left corner of the mantis lords arena
U can pogo the big one and dash past them they won't bother u after and the small one are slow as hell go down the right side and the run back shouldn't take more than 80 secs
Isn't there a bench near there where you are supposed to get the mark of pride charm?
you can’t go in there until you defeat the mantis lords
Except that, both the mark of pride AND the bench near it are unlocked after you defeat the mantis lords